Latest / Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson / The Living Master of Equestrian Art: Love, Joy & Dressing a Horse Like Chopin | Luis & Sofia Valença | LFRF 65

Transcript

The Living Master of Equestrian Art: Love, Joy & Dressing a Horse Like Chopin | Luis & Sofia Valença | LFRF 65 · Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

0:00
Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.
0:01
Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.
0:03
I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times bestselling author of
0:06
The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.
0:08
Before I jump in with today's guest, I want to say a huge thank you to you, our
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0:34
So now let's jump in.
0:36
Welcome back to Live Free, Ride Free.
0:39
I've been waiting for this one for a long time.
0:43
I have the legend, the living legend, Luis ValenÃ§a here, Master Luis ValenÃ§a.
0:50
If you don't know who he is, then you should and you will
0:54
by the end of this podcast.
0:57
If you have ever heard of the term equestrian art, then you are
1:02
looking at the current greatest living exponent of that tradition
1:08
currently alive on planet Earth.
1:12
Mestre Luis ValenÃ§a, he lives in Lisbon.
1:15
He's been practicing equestrian art there for a very long time
1:18
and educating all sorts of people, even including monkeys like me,
1:24
and he's a legend around the world.
1:26
Those who know of him know of him and in the sort of top tiers of the dressage
1:32
world, it's kind of a little bit like talking about FranÃ§ois Robichon de La
1:37
GueriniÃ¨re but actually walking around.
1:40
That's how people know him and because he keeps an amazing stable of school
1:46
master horses, he doesn't just talk about what he does and he doesn't, doesn't
1:50
just educate people on their own horses.
1:52
He educates people on the incredible horses that he himself
1:56
has prepared and with his family.
1:58
You see his incredible daughter, Sofia, one of three incredible daughters,
2:02
equally talented, sitting next to him and really this man is a national treasure.
2:09
There is just, is no question about this.
2:11
So I'm very honored to be a small part of bringing this a little bit further
2:17
into the public, public connaissance.
2:20
All right.
2:21
So without further ado Senhor Luis and Sofia ValenÃ§a, thank you
2:28
so much for coming on the show
2:31
Yeah please tell us who you are and what you do
2:37
Luis Valenca: You know you speak about my life, my system, my method.
2:44
It's very, very easy and very, very complicated.
2:49
And you know, it's very easy because it's to do a connection between the man and the
2:56
horse, like you do a connection with man with man, that the horse understand you.
3:02
Sometimes it's very complicated because that, the basic
3:05
things from that, it's love.
3:08
Not everybody have the love out of his
3:14
ears and of with his voice, but of his heart, huh?
3:21
And then it's the principal from the, our method.
3:25
It's to love and the big passion that you have to the horses, to
3:29
the people that like horses, huh?
3:33
In basic, that seems it's very easy because all the, all the system
3:38
that you utilize, the communication between us and the horses is like a
3:44
communication with the children, huh?
3:47
And that you have in your
3:50
Sofia Valenca: Instinct?
3:51
Luis Valenca: Instinct, huh.
3:53
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
3:53
Luis Valenca: The communication for our children, because humans have, have
3:57
babies, babies need to have education.
4:00
It's because I have tell the, the basic things about our system, our
4:06
method, it's the love, to love.
4:10
It's the same that you have with your children, your daugh- daughters,
4:13
with your sons and everything.
4:16
When I tell that sometimes it's very difficult because there are some
4:19
people don't have that open from, from his heart to understand that.
4:27
But you know, sometimes the more rigid, the more closed, after work one, two
4:35
days, they begin to have- Open his heart and begin to have understand
4:43
what is to love work with horses.
4:46
It's not a gymnastic, it's not to do exercise singles.
4:51
It's to have a system, but the first thing is communicate with the horse,
4:55
and the horse accept you, huh?
4:58
And that is the basic, and that, that communication needs
5:02
to do not forcing, not cry.
5:06
It's like I have tell, it's like when you communicate with your
5:11
children and with your sons, with much love and much passion, and that
5:16
it's because I have 88 something years old, 81, quite, I don't know.
5:22
And I have the same enthusiasm because I love the life, I love the horses,
5:28
I love the family, I love my space.
5:31
I love, huh?
5:33
And that love, it's the that have building the, our method, and our
5:40
method it's very easy because f- for example, the children when go to the
5:44
school, he don't begin to, to read historic things, to read mathematic.
5:51
No, he begins to understand the, his teacher and understand why.
5:59
First the sons from the, the, the words.
6:02
After that sense, he begin to write some designs, huh?
6:09
When
6:09
Sofia Valenca: they start to learn how
6:10
Luis Valenca: to hand write it â¦ he, he, he begin, he begin to have
6:12
action in his hands, and he's ab- ends his communication by there.
6:17
But not forcing, huh?
6:18
Something is spontaneous, and after it's fantastic.
6:22
For example, I can tell you now, in my life, I have God
6:27
give me something very special.
6:30
I have a little baby from my granddaughter.
6:35
I have a, a grand- A grand- A
6:37
Rupert Isaacson: great-granddaughter
6:38
â¦ Luis Valenca: great-granddaughter.
6:39
And that grand-granddaughter, the system, the communication with her, it's the
6:44
same that we have with the horses, huh?
6:47
And now we have is fantastic.
6:49
Now she have two years old.
6:50
She speak with us natural, and sometimes it's not normal like
6:58
a children with two years old.
7:01
And you know why?
7:02
Because our communication.
7:05
She come in the morning with us to the riding hall here.
7:09
She go to see the horses.
7:10
She go to, to-
7:12
Sofia Valenca: Touch
7:12
â¦ Luis Valenca: to touch, to clean, to give some carrots, to giveâ¦
7:17
And that-
7:18
Sofia Valenca: To play in the sand.
7:20
Mm.
7:21
To, to climb trees, to fall off, to hurt her knee.
7:25
Luis Valenca: Sometimes we have a problem with the, well-
7:27
Sofia Valenca: When they fall
7:28
â¦ Luis Valenca: when they fall.
7:28
But all that, it's the same that you have d- that you do with the young horses
7:35
or the old horses, because sometimes our method you can introduce in young
7:41
horses or a old horse that come from sometimes from you don't know one.
7:47
When he come, it's more difficult, the old horses.
7:49
Because we have experience in the life, sometimes negative.
7:53
Mm.
7:54
And then the memory of your stay there.
7:57
You need first to clean that, to give your heart, and after we, we give to- To build
8:03
Sofia Valenca: the trust again
8:04
â¦ Luis Valenca: to give the, the work.
8:07
That is the basic s- things from our method.
8:10
Now, I
8:11
Rupert Isaacson: know- Now,
8:11
Luis Valenca: this is- â¦ it's very easy because it's doing with love.
8:15
It's v- sometimes very difficult because there are some people that don't have
8:20
the, the spontaneous love in the, in the things that they do, but after the horse
8:24
give that sensibility to the, to theâ¦
8:27
There are a communication first with the horse, but sometimes the
8:32
horse give the same, the same,
8:35
Sofia Valenca: The
8:36
Luis Valenca: same love
8:36
the same return.
8:37
The return.
8:38
Same return.
8:38
Rupert Isaacson: Yes, I agree.
8:39
You know, I had- But it's- â¦ the experience of coming to you the
8:42
first time, and my job was really r- to rehab older therapy horses.
8:50
I mean, I knew you guys were legends, and I of course wanted to learn everything
8:54
I could learn, but it became immediately apparent to me that- You could take a
9:04
horse with your system who had arthritis, who had bad experiences in the mind and
9:09
the history, who had these stories in the body and in the mind, and you could
9:16
effectively create a yoga where you would reverse the age of the horse- Mm-hmm
9:22
and de-traumatize the horse.
9:25
And of course for me, this was massively useful because these were
9:31
the kinds of horses that naturally I was initially having to deal with.
9:36
And then after perhaps 24 months of working with your system, suddenly
9:44
all these rejuvenated horses were in piaffe and passage and doing
9:50
all these amazing things out of joy and of course out of your system.
9:57
So this was revelatory, right?
10:01
Not everybody who you can go and study with will give you the key like
10:10
you guys gave to me, and I've seen you give to so many other people.
10:16
As you say, love is massively important, joy, but you also
10:22
give very practical tools.
10:24
Could you talk us through the simplicity of the concept?
10:31
Because I think we can all understand that a concept can be simple to
10:37
understand, but perhaps a little more complicated to execute.
10:41
But could you talk us through the simplicity of your method?
10:51
You think, "Oh, it's a short book."
10:53
And then you read it again, and then you read it again, and then
10:58
you read, and then you go, "Oh.
11:00
Oh, it's deeper, it's deeper, it's deeper."
11:03
So but we start with that simplicity.
11:05
Can you outline to us that system?
11:08
Luis Valenca: Yes.
11:08
Before that you know, I have in my life-
11:16
Three fantastic masters in my life, and that it's more easy to understand all the
11:24
system because to have the experience that I have with the horses, I have read all,
11:31
all masters, the old masters, because you need to read to, to know the books, to,
11:37
to know all the system that they are good.
11:40
After to, with that in your, in your mind, when you have the communication with the
11:48
horses, you have problems all days, some resistance that, and you can utilize it.
11:53
Now, maybe with that I can result that.
11:58
I, I, I tell you one story, for example, about I speak now about my masters, huh?
12:04
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
12:06
Luis Valenca: My, when I am five years old, my god, god, god-
12:12
Sofia Valenca: Godfather
12:13
Luis Valenca: godfather, it, it's in Lisbon he have a big farm with
12:19
horses, and I think that it's more important o- man in the, in the world
12:25
of the horses, huh, because he have horses in that time, I, I speak in
12:29
the years 50, 1950, '52, '53, yeah.
12:37
The horse, it much utilized.
12:39
And my, my, my godfather, he have horses to jump, he have horses to
12:44
the hound, he have horses to the carriage, he have horses to the bull
12:49
fights, he have horses for everything.
12:51
And I begin with five years old, go with him, and begin to understand w- whatâ¦
12:58
For example, we go to see horses to buy, and I come with him, and he
13:05
tell, "You know, that horse, maybe it's a good horse to, to the world
13:09
of the jump, because he have the more height, the movements more, and the,
13:14
the back in the canter, he do that."
13:17
He begin to, to explain me with the horses, huh?
13:21
After sometimes he choice one horse to the bull fight, and he tells, "You see,
13:26
that horse is fantastic because he have the more down, the back of the horse down.
13:30
The energy from the horse, it's fantastic, yeah."
13:33
And now I have that teacher that give, that open me the
13:37
world of the horse with that-
13:39
Rupert Isaacson: What was his name?
13:39
What was your godfather's name?
13:41
Luis Valenca: It's Fernando Ralao.
13:43
It's, it's-
13:44
Rupert Isaacson: How do we spell that in, it-
13:46
Luis Valenca: Ralao.
13:47
It's the, the grandfather from Joao Ralao.
13:51
He, it's the president, it's the secretary from the APSC, yeah, and
13:55
from Miguel Ralao that he have two Olympic Games in dressage, and-
14:00
Rupert Isaacson: How do we spell that name?
14:02
Fern- Fernando-
14:03
Sofia Valenca: Fernando, F-E-R-N-A-N-D-O
14:06
Rupert Isaacson: That one I can spell, but the other one.
14:09
Sofia Valenca: Ralao, R-A-L-A-O
14:11
â¦ Rupert Isaacson: R-A-L-A-O.
14:14
Okay, so he was the first mentor.
14:16
Got it.
14:18
Luis Valenca: And with him, I, I begin to understand.
14:23
And after, I begin to have some horses to ride, and when we ride
14:27
horses more advanced, sometimes in the end he tell, "Luis, ride a little."
14:32
And after, it's the horses that he have that give me the first experience and
14:38
the sensibility from a good horse, from a bullfighter good horse, to the hound
14:45
a good horse, to the, to the carriage.
14:48
I have do much carriage in that moment with him.
14:52
And that is my, my first,
14:55
Sofia Valenca: Experience
14:56
â¦ Luis Valenca: experience that, and he, that man, he do that with love, huh?
15:01
It's a man very active, huh?
15:03
En- enthusiastic, huh?
15:06
He tell that all days he have so much horses at home.
15:09
Maybe he have 40 or 50 horses at home, but all days he say, "Now you go to
15:14
do, to see one horse that I know."
15:16
In that moment, there are much horses.
15:19
N- it's not on- only the breeders.
15:21
There are horses in the, in the Alentejo, but there's much, the
15:25
quantity of the horses, it's much, Was
15:29
Sofia Valenca: bigger at the
15:29
Luis Valenca: time â¦ it's bigger, huh?
15:31
Mm.
15:31
And now I have that experience.
15:33
After I have the experience when we ride, in the end he begin to tell
15:36
me, "Now you ride a little," huh?
15:38
And it's the horse that it's more advanced that give me the
15:41
sensibility and the talent from the, the, the quality from the horses.
15:49
That is my first master, just all life, huh?
15:53
All, all life just toâ¦
15:55
He, he, he have died.
15:57
There are maybe 25 years before, but just to the end, he have the
16:03
same enthusiasm about horses, huh?
16:09
After, I have a second master A man very complicate, huh?
16:16
Very rigid, but he begin to give me lessons.
16:22
He have 87 years, in the end of his life.
16:26
And for him, me, it's like a oxygen in his life, huh?
16:30
He return to have life, huh?
16:32
And now he take me like a, a grandson or a, This, th- th-
16:38
Sofia Valenca: A
16:38
Luis Valenca: son.
16:39
A son,
16:39
Rupert Isaacson: mm-hmm.
16:40
Luis Valenca: A- and he open, phew, his wholeâ¦
16:43
His co- co- His
16:44
Sofia Valenca: knowledge.
16:46
Luis Valenca: That he- Mm.
16:47
Directly from the more complicate big masters, like Boucherie.
16:52
He's a man, he's a Boucheriest.
16:54
I tell Boucheries becauseâ¦
16:56
And all the system from Boucherie, he give me that, huh?
17:00
He give me-
17:00
Rupert Isaacson: Can you give us his name please?
17:02
Luis Valenca: Cunha Menezes.
17:05
Rupert Isaacson: Cunha?
17:06
Luis Valenca: Menezes.
17:07
Rupert Isaacson: Menezes.
17:08
Me-
17:09
Luis Valenca: His fatherâ¦
17:10
Menezes.
17:10
His father is one people from Boucherie, the father from Mr.
17:15
Menezes, huh?
17:16
Now, the, the, the, the so complicate that is the system from
17:21
Boucherie, if you read the books.
17:24
I have directly, and with the horse, the experience, do that, do that, and theâ¦
17:30
That is a time fantastic because that man, with the 87 years, he
17:36
have won in the years 80, 96, huh?
17:44
He have, he have a big experience about horses, huh?
17:50
About to dress the horses, huh?
17:54
And I have stories fantastic with that man, huh?
17:59
After, in the end, when is Mr.
18:02
Menezes don't go more out of his,
18:05
Sofia Valenca: He stop teaching
18:06
â¦ Luis Valenca: stop teaching, I go to, to your,
18:10
Sofia Valenca: To his student
18:11
â¦ Luis Valenca: to your house and give, give me just to the end
18:16
of his life, he give me lessons.
18:17
Sometimes in the, in the, in the bed, very, very sick, he put me in a chairs
18:25
with two reins and one spoon in the hand.
18:28
He give me the helps.
18:30
See, I have my, my, my right leg-
18:33
Rupert Isaacson: Your riding aids.
18:35
Luis Valenca: With the-
18:35
Rupert Isaacson: Transferred from the deathbed
18:37
â¦ Luis Valenca: yes.
18:38
You know, the, the sensitivity from the spoon.
18:40
You touch there, you touch there.
18:41
It's a man, it's a boucheryste, very complicated.
18:44
Right.
18:45
But I have understand all that system.
18:50
In that moment- Nuno Oliveira, one day, because Nuno is married with a, a, one
18:58
cousin, and Nuno is very jealous in that time with the â¦ There are two or
19:06
three, or three riding schools in Lisbon, and Nuno is jealous from that, huh.
19:12
In that moment, I am with my godfather and it's jealousy,
19:16
he don't speak with me, huh.
19:18
After I am with Mr.
19:19
Cunha Mendes, now he begin to open a little the house.
19:23
Sometimes I go to visit with Cunha Mendes.
19:25
He have much respect with Cunha Mendes.
19:29
And one day he tell me, "Luis, I know that you have â¦ There is one horse with Mr.
19:34
Mendes.
19:35
Can I show, can you show me the horse?"
19:38
"Yes."
19:40
Do you know, in all my life, it's a horse that give me the
19:44
route to have n- new things, huh.
19:49
I go to take the horse.
19:50
The horse it's i- it's very nice, like model, and it's dressed in Pouchet system.
19:55
He do gallop back, he do gallop in straight legs, he
19:59
do â¦ I have showed the horse.
20:01
Nuno is in the tribune like that.
20:05
In the end, he tell me, "You know, it's not bad, but dressage it's not only that.
20:12
There are much things after that."
20:15
And he goes.
20:16
He goes.
20:18
In this day, in that day, I go home to do â¦ I live with my father and
20:23
my mother, and when I arrive to take lunch, my mother tell me, "You know
20:28
who is in the telephone with me?"
20:30
"No."
20:31
It's Nuno Oliveira stay with me one hour speak with me, to tell that,
20:36
"See you to ride the horse, and I have seen that you can do in the future a
20:43
man from the, the world horses, huh."
20:46
Now he tell me, "If you want," he open his doors, "and you
20:52
can begin to work with him.
20:54
Go.
20:55
If you are according, go this afternoon six o'clock to speak with him."
21:00
And I have go six o'clock to speak with him, and he tell me, "If you
21:05
want, you begin to work with me here, because what you do with Mr.
21:11
Mendes, it's not bad.
21:13
But the dressage is, it's more open.
21:17
There are more things to, to building the, the life of the horse, huh."
21:24
And I have tell him one thing.
21:27
Yes, I, I accept that, but you know, I have the lessons with Mr.
21:33
Nunes and I, I don't go to stop with Mr.
21:36
Nunes.
21:37
And that for him, it's very nice to tell that you don't wantâ¦
21:42
I don't
21:43
Sofia Valenca: want- He shows respect for-
21:44
Luis Valenca: I don't want profit what he offer me, but I respect my, my, my master.
21:52
And he tell me, "What time you work with Mr.
21:55
Nunes norm- in the normal after lunch?
21:58
Half past one, two o'clock."
22:00
"Okay."
22:01
"You go to work all days in the morning, and after when you finished
22:06
Nunes, you come to my place, huh?
22:09
Now come tomorrow, 7:00 o'clock in the morning."
22:13
And I begin like that with Nuno.
22:16
The first time it's a little difficult for me because Nuno is a, a man very fantastic
22:27
in his work, but very exigent, huh?
22:30
And the day after when I arrive, he have the littleâ¦
22:35
It, it's not the, the space that he have, it's another riding hall.
22:40
He have 24 meters by 12 And he tell me, "You got to ride three horses there.
22:48
And you begin 7:00, just 10:00."
22:52
I ride one horse after I, I changed, another, another.
22:57
And Nuno ride another horse.
22:59
JoÃ£o Oliveira ride another.
23:01
And Mr.
23:03
It's the man that help him ride.
23:05
There are four riders in the riding hall.
23:07
And you know, during that, that three hours, three hours, he
23:13
tell me, "Do the magic work calm.
23:17
After you don't tell nothing, huh?"
23:20
And I tell, "What then?
23:22
Maybe I do the mistakes, huh?"
23:24
But during that tell each one work his horse, pum, pum, pum, pum, pum.
23:28
You don't, you don't
23:31
Rupert Isaacson: He doesn't correct you.
23:32
Luis Valenca: Huh?
23:33
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
23:34
Luis Valenca: After, in the afternoon when I finished with Coromnes, I come and he
23:38
tell, "Now you got to work that horse."
23:40
And now in that moment, in the morning we have do that with theâ¦
23:45
I don't remember what horse that I have left from the Conde Mousa, a brown horse.
23:49
We have do that.
23:50
It's not that.
23:52
The inside rein, it's God that give you in your hand.
23:55
You don't, can utilize the inside rein so, so strong, huh?
23:59
And after he begin to introduce his system, not in the moment that
24:04
you work, it's after when, when you work alone the other horses, huh?
24:11
And I stay with him just that time, huh?
24:16
During the, the, the people tell, "Ah, the attention because it's very difficult."
24:21
I can tell you in my life, Donal not only one minute that it's negative with me.
24:29
And he stay much friendly.
24:32
The last years when I have here the riding hall in Vila Franca, He, he,
24:38
he phone me and they tell I want toâ¦
24:41
It's me that choice the horses for him.
24:43
And after he arrive from the big tourney, they tell Luiz, "I have arrived.
24:48
I need two horses.
24:50
I w- want one horse, one brown, one gray."
24:53
And the horse like that.
24:55
"Go quickly.
24:56
They wantâ¦"
24:57
It's a man that he have the fire from, from the dressage.
25:02
He have theâ¦
25:02
I, I don't want to tell dressage.
25:04
He have the fire from dress his horses, huh?
25:09
Huh.
25:09
It-
25:10
Rupert Isaacson: Talk to us quickly.
25:11
People are very confused about this word dressage because obviously it's a
25:16
French word, and you guys are dressed.
25:21
I'm dressed.
25:22
If I go to a restaurant and I order a salad, I get a salad dressing.
25:27
If I cut my skin, you put a dressing on the wound.
25:33
Yeah.
25:33
You put it together.
25:36
W- so when you use this word a dressed horse or to dress a horse, but other
25:42
people thinking d- think dressage is just training or a sport, can you
25:48
just explain a little bit before we go on with the stories, what is the
25:54
real meaning of this term, to dress?
25:58
Luis Valenca: To dress is the same with the children.
26:01
I go, I return to the children, huh?
26:05
To the horse understand the basic things that it's for his body stay more soft and
26:16
more communicate with his teacher, huh?
26:21
Dressage, when you tell dressage, the, the word it's a little, a little strong.
26:29
Dressage, huh?
26:31
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
26:31
Luis Valenca: And when you work with the horse, there are never strong.
26:35
There are soft things, huh?
26:38
The sun, the touch, the way to, to utilize your hands, huh?
26:46
There are some thing like I can tell you now Music, huh?
26:53
Music.
26:53
About music, huh?
26:54
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
26:56
Luis Valenca: Our system, the equestrian, the, the equestrian heart,
27:00
I tell heart, it's like the music.
27:03
It's the same that you watch Chopin or Beethoven, our work.
27:08
The other dressage, the competition, that is fantastic today.
27:12
We were fantastic riders in competition, huh?
27:16
But it's more stronger because- Mm â¦ you need to go from the point one to the
27:22
point B with the, with your very straight, you know, you have Gromekses, Gromekses.
27:30
You have the-
27:31
Rupert Isaacson: Rules, yeah
27:32
â¦ Luis Valenca: yeah.
27:33
You have the, the regla, huh?
27:35
Special school.
27:36
Rules, yeah.
27:37
Then they're not r- with our system
27:43
It's to have in the begin a communication with the horse.
27:48
The horse have the eyes, the ears, the touch, and the smell.
27:55
Very, very important, huh?
27:57
And with that you can begin to, to go to the world of the horses.
28:02
And you see when, when a horse have something that it's not
28:09
normal, the ears do that, huh?
28:12
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
28:12
Luis Valenca: After you open the nose, huh?
28:14
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
28:15
Luis Valenca: And sometimes the eyes too, huh?
28:18
There are some s- is- there are something that it's not normal.
28:23
If in that moment the horse is no, your son like, ah, to calm, huh?
28:30
Sofia Valenca: The touch.
28:31
Luis Valenca: The touch with your hand.
28:35
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
28:35
Luis Valenca: And sometimes the, to pass your hand in the nose, you have, you have
28:41
to give to the horse some confidence that you are a special friend of him, huh?
28:47
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
28:48
Luis Valenca: It's very easy, huh, you know?
28:50
It's very easy, but it's not to tell, "Ha."
28:53
It's not to tell that, huh?
28:56
It's not to tell that in the nose, huh?
28:58
It's something like Chopin.
29:00
When you heard Chopin, you go maybe you close your eyes, huh?
29:05
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
29:06
Luis Valenca: You, you wantâ¦
29:07
I, I give that comparison with the music because sometimes the music
29:12
give you, your mind to have a soft,
29:16
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
29:16
Luis Valenca: a
29:18
Sofia Valenca: Cloud
29:19
â¦ Luis Valenca: a soft cloud in the ideas, huh?
29:22
And you need to give that to the horse with s- something very,
29:25
very easy, and that it's the basic from our s- our method, huh?
29:31
Sofia Valenca: It's- I, I just gonna interrupt you just to, 'cause it
29:34
just- Mm-hmm â¦ crossed my mind.
29:35
I think dressage should be the word that we should give the meaning that
29:42
it helps the horse to understand his body and to apply his body and learn
29:49
how to use his body in a way that made him feel good in his own skin, and
29:55
this is a little bit what we try to do
29:59
Rupert Isaacson: I like, okay, so you just said this, I'll
30:02
pick you up on that last thing.
30:03
To feel good- In yourself â¦ in his own skin.
30:07
Now, you also, your father just said, Senior Luis, he just said that it's like
30:16
Chopin, and when you listen to Chopin and you close your eyes, that's the
30:21
feeling you would like the horse to have.
30:25
And then earlier in the conversation, you talked about love and joy.
30:32
I can tell you, and I think most people listening to this or watching
30:36
this, do not normally hear those words when it comes to dressage.
30:43
They hear words like correct or classical or words that sound like
30:51
they come with a little bit of punishment if you get them wrong.
30:56
Obviously, we inherit a lot from the military, and we know this
31:01
training pyramid, this training scale that the Germans gave us.
31:06
Nowhere on there is there joy.
31:10
Nowhere.
31:12
So you, I think, are the only people I know who-
31:22
authentically, I think, really prioritized that as the dressing of
31:30
the horse, to feel good in his body.
31:33
Okay.
31:33
And what you were describing there was that the horse could take pleasure.
31:40
Sofia Valenca: And that's where the joy starts.
31:42
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
31:43
Sofia Valenca: Begin.
31:44
The joy should begin in the moment that horse enters into the arena.
31:50
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
31:51
Sofia Valenca: And every single day he has to come inside the arena-
31:55
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
31:55
â¦ Sofia Valenca: more joined than the day before.
31:58
And this is, I think it's the most important and smart and intelligent
32:05
way of being in this world, is how, how can I make this horse happier today?
32:12
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
32:13
Sofia Valenca: It's all about understanding-
32:16
Luis Valenca: You-
32:16
â¦ Sofia Valenca: and making him understand what we want him to understand
32:19
â¦ Luis Valenca: today I can give you a example.
32:23
I have a horse here that have a problem, physical problem
32:30
Physical problem because I don't know what he have, but he have
32:32
something in the back, huh?
32:35
In the morning he have s- do some exercise with the horse and I have
32:40
seen that the horse is sometimes he have pain or something like that.
32:46
He stay very rigid.
32:48
Now I change the exercise and I begin both by the, the morning
32:55
easy exercise from Baucher.
32:57
It's to put his maxil very soft, the-
33:01
Rupert Isaacson: Jaw flexions, yeah
33:03
â¦ Luis Valenca: flexion, the flexion, the flexion.
33:05
The horse, it finish so-so.
33:09
He go home and I tell maybe tomorrow go better.
33:12
I come from lunch and I have said to the boy, "Take the horse,
33:16
but change the, change that.
33:19
Put only a snaffle, a little-" Change
33:21
Rupert Isaacson: the bit, yeah
33:23
â¦ Luis Valenca: And I take the horse, and in the moment that I take the snaffle, the
33:27
horse have do that, huh, and say, "Ola."
33:32
And he have a lesson maybe 20 minutes, and finish with his back more relaxed.
33:40
I don't pass to the other exercise that he needs to do,
33:43
but I stay in that exercise, huh?
33:47
And that, it's to leave the problems from the horses, and to try everything
33:55
that you have learned or, or do you have leave, have in your experience and, or
34:00
you have seen with the, your masters, huh?
34:04
And to try to put in that, in that, today it's in that horse,
34:09
to know if result without,
34:13
Sofia Valenca: Without force
34:14
Luis Valenca: without force, huh?
34:15
The, the, you know, in the morning the horse when he have, I think
34:20
that he have pain in the back, huh?
34:23
And in the end when I do the flexion sometimes he stay very rigid, and with
34:28
the hand he do that but very soft, huh?
34:31
Like he tell me-
34:33
Sofia Valenca: Stop
34:33
â¦ Luis Valenca: stop because I have pain, huh?
34:35
It's the same.
34:37
Now in the afternoon I change everything.
34:40
The, the bride I put another I be, I be, I do the, the same exercise, and the horse
34:47
never do that sign that he have the pain.
34:51
And if he needs maybe 10 minutes, you got to see tomorrow, huh?
34:55
And that I have come from the lunch with that in my head.
34:59
I got to try to do that, da, da, da, da.
35:02
Sofia Valenca: Like- And, and you know what?
35:03
He will not sleep tonight because tomorrow he wants to know â¦ if it
35:09
has result what we have been doing.
35:11
Luis Valenca: But you know, is Nunu it's that, you know, I
35:14
have a, a s- a story with theâ¦
35:18
I have positive stories, sometimes negative that he never
35:22
tell that it's negative, huh?
35:25
But one time he buy, he buy old time horses, not very good horses.
35:32
It's horses more cheap because he don't have much money.
35:36
But after maybe one month work, he don't work all, you work all in the
35:42
same system, but the, the, the, the way that he, he take the horses, it's
35:49
different one from the others, huh?
35:51
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
35:52
Luis Valenca: And one time he take one horse
35:56
I have here.
35:57
I, I do not know here the, the photos.
36:00
No?
36:00
It's here.
36:03
It's the chest.
36:04
The chest
36:04
Rupert Isaacson: I can't see that horse, but maybe describe
36:07
and tell us who that horse was.
36:09
Luis Valenca: It's Bunker.
36:10
Rupert Isaacson: Ah, Bunker.
36:11
Yes.
36:12
Luis Valenca: It's, there
36:12
Rupert Isaacson: was- I read about Bunker.
36:14
Luis Valenca: Yeah â¦ Bunker.
36:15
Because Nuno want one horse from the north of Europe, the blood different
36:21
to, to know, because everybody tell, "Ah, you have only Iberian horses
36:26
and, you know, you can try it."
36:30
And he goes and they buy that horse.
36:33
The story to buy that horse, it's very interesting.
36:36
He goesâ¦
36:37
You know, there are one man in Belgium.
36:39
It's Mr.
36:39
Alex Wilms.
36:41
It's in the, in that time.
36:43
I speak there are 35, 40 years before, huh?
36:48
It's the only one that have permission to import horses from Russian.
36:55
And it's a big friend from Nuno Oliveira.
36:57
And one day he tell, "I have take 12 horses from Russian.
37:01
All the horses from the type from the German horses.
37:06
Come to see."
37:06
And we have go to, to see the the foals.
37:09
It's the, there are horse, the three years old.
37:13
And he have invited
37:17
Mr.
37:17
Andrade, a big friend.
37:19
It's the best, the best breeder in-
37:22
Rupert Isaacson: Andrade is a name to conjure with in the- Yes
37:25
Lusitano
37:25
Luis Valenca: horse
37:26
Rupert Isaacson: world.
37:26
Yeah,
37:26
Luis Valenca: yeah.
37:26
Andrade.
37:27
We have invited Michelle Henrique.
37:29
We have invited,
37:30
Sofia Valenca: Helene
37:30
Luis Valenca: Arianoff â¦ Helene Arianoff.
37:31
It's Olympic French that is big performer.
37:34
Mm-hmm.
37:34
And they have to see the horses.
37:37
And Mr.
37:37
Willemse sh- show the horses free in the riding hall And the, there
37:44
are, I don't know, I think that there are seven or 10 horses.
37:48
In the end, Nuno tell, "Now you go," the, the people that he have invited,
37:53
"You go out because I got to choose the horse only with my friend Williamson."
37:58
And they have go.
38:00
Maybe one hour after they return and they tell to Henrique,
38:03
"What I say I have choice?"
38:05
Henrique tell, "Sure, there are a Palomino that moves very well with a pal- a
38:10
very good constitution, the, his body."
38:13
Sofia Valenca: Morphology.
38:14
Luis Valenca: Morphology.
38:15
"We have choice the Palomino.
38:17
Sure, now."
38:17
He tell, "No, you don't understand anything about horse."
38:21
He tell it after it's very strong.
38:23
And after he tell to, to Arianov, he, he tell the other, "No one-
38:31
Sofia Valenca: Have guest
38:32
â¦ Luis Valenca: have guest."
38:33
And he, he tell, "You know, I have choice.
38:36
The worst from the group to have the possibility to know a horse from that
38:43
origin, and not a good configuration if my system and my method can have solution."
38:51
Now he buy Bunker.
38:53
Bunker.
38:54
And he tell Helen Arianov, "Now you take the horse to your place.
38:59
You go to break Maxie."
39:01
Sofia Valenca: Just to break down.
39:02
You know, when they start,
39:03
Rupert Isaacson: Just the starting, yeah.
39:05
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39:10
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40:54
Luis Valenca: Yeah.
40:55
And after the horse go to Portugal.
40:57
Okay.
40:58
And the horse, and some days after, two or three days, it he phone to Nuno.
41:03
"There are a problem.
41:04
The horse, one leg it's not e- equal to the other, and the horse it's
41:09
configuration it's not very good."
41:11
And he tell, "Not mind.
41:15
Break the horse that if I want the horse."
41:20
And the horse more two or three days after she phone, "Nuno, it's
41:24
impossible because he have a problem.
41:27
I think that he have a spare in the left leg."
41:30
And then I go to tell to the veterinarian, and he tell, "Jamais."
41:34
To him- Never â¦ never.
41:37
Because the veterinarian go to tell that the horse have that,
41:40
that, that, and I want the horse because he's a little thing.
41:44
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
41:44
Luis Valenca: Send me the horse to Portugal, and the horse go to Portugal.
41:48
And I have see when the horse arrive, I, I look the horse and I tell,
41:53
"That man is completely crazy."
41:56
Because the horse is somethingâ¦
41:59
Everything gets bad in the horse.
42:01
The neck is like that.
42:02
The g- the, the cross it's like that.
42:05
The, the, the left-
42:07
Sofia Valenca: Horse is built upside down
42:08
â¦ Luis Valenca: the left leg- Yeah â¦ the left leg it's not equal to the right
42:12
leg, and he begin to ride the horse toâ¦
42:15
And I have sit the first six months.
42:19
You know, maybe the first, the first two months
42:26
He ride the horse in a little vault.
42:28
Vault, vault.
42:30
After he begin to open that vault, huh?
42:34
After he begins the lesson with some flexions and mobilizations of the back.
42:39
Attention, in six months the horse, he have the basic work.
42:44
He have more, it's more fat.
42:47
The morphology, it's a- Is
42:48
Rupert Isaacson: rounder, yeah
42:49
Sofia Valenca: And
42:50
Luis Valenca: I can tell you, one year after, the horse, it's somethingâ¦
42:55
It's the horse that I have seen in my life.
42:58
When he died, the horse stay to, to his grandson.
43:02
Grandson.
43:04
And the horse do a work, but they do five change one time.
43:07
He do something that I have seen much time to horses to do that, but
43:12
they are taught to do that with like,
43:14
Sofia Valenca: The transitions
43:15
Luis Valenca: the transitions, for example, the piaffe passage, and
43:18
after Spanish trot into Spanish trot like, like we have in the Lupe.
43:23
In the cloud.
43:24
In a something like that.
43:26
And I have tell, that is fantastic how, how that man arrive.
43:31
And all time the reins, I have here the, the, the, the photos, the reins.
43:36
They are notâ¦
43:38
They are in contact, but a soft contact.
43:42
And one day, you know, when sometimes when you want to speak with Nuno about,
43:48
about the, the system and, and the things that he do with the horses, you need
43:54
to, to choice the better moment, huh?
43:57
If you go to tell, he stay.
44:00
And one day he come from the other side of the, the, the Tejo.
44:07
We have the, the river.
44:08
Rupert Isaacson: The river, yeah.
44:09
Luis Valenca: The Tejo.
44:10
Rupert Isaacson: The bridge.
44:10
The Tagus.
44:10
Luis Valenca: Come, he come with me in the, in the car, and much
44:14
conversation, and that's it.
44:15
That is the moment.
44:16
And I tell, "You know, you know, Nuno, what you have do f- is fantastic to,
44:22
to put that horse completely- Contrary to that the nature have give to him
44:30
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm
44:31
Luis Valenca: And he, he, he look me, smile, and he tell, "You know, Luiz,
44:37
if not our friend Boschi, I don't arrive to the rest of the horse."
44:44
Attention.
44:45
And I have tell, "But the horse is not Boschi."
44:47
He said, "No, but you know Boschi, it's like the antibiotic.
44:51
Five days it's enough."
44:54
Yeah.
44:54
And all the problems from the, the, the mind of the horse, I have transfer.
45:00
I, I, I remember that conversation, and it's because today I have to with the
45:07
horse that have problems, you see, I go to try to have, you know, the to learn
45:13
in this, in our life is to have the examples from moments that you have lived-
45:19
Sofia Valenca: Experienced
45:20
Luis Valenca: before
45:20
the experience from that.
45:21
Rupert Isaacson: It's very interesting.
45:23
I remember you guys showing me and Ileana, my wife some of the jaw flexions,
45:29
and we went back to Texas where we were living at the time and worked
45:38
those flexions with several horses that had problems in the stifle, that
45:44
had problems in the pelvis, and that had problems in the shoulder and neck
45:53
In each case, these horses which were stiff and not just stiff in
46:00
the body, but stiff in the mind
46:03
Luis Valenca: In the mind, yes
46:04
Rupert Isaacson: they all came to the piaffe, the passage, the
46:08
changes probably within about
46:14
nine to 16 months after you had shown us not just that, but
46:21
of course many other things.
46:23
And you're very modest because I keep trying in this interview to nail you down,
46:29
'cause I'm a journalist, on your system, and you keep, like a modest man- No
46:36
because this is who you are, telling us about your masters.
46:39
So I'm going to- But I will, you know- It's important.
46:43
It's important, for sure.
46:44
Sofia Valenca: One sec.
46:44
I was going to tell you that Yeah â¦ just before you mentioned that
46:48
your question is not forgotten, for-
46:51
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm â¦ for-
46:52
Sofia Valenca: forgot- â¦ got.
46:54
Rupert Isaacson: Strong verb, yes.
46:55
Sofia Valenca: But and about the method.
46:58
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
46:58
Sofia Valenca: Because the passion he has drives him to tell The stories that-
47:07
Rupert Isaacson: And it's beautiful
47:08
â¦ Sofia Valenca: I know you like.
47:09
It's beautiful.
47:09
Beautiful.
47:10
And but I can talk about the method in a way that the same way he talks about
47:17
his masters, I can have the joy of saying that I have my master here next to me.
47:25
And I didn't read the books he did.
47:28
I was very fortunate that every single day I have a living library next to me.
47:34
So when we have a problem, we don't open a book.
47:37
We just go like, "Come on, help us here.
47:40
What's the problem?"
47:41
So we learn-
47:43
Luis Valenca: Attention
47:43
â¦ Sofia Valenca: we learn without even knowing we are learning.
47:46
Yeah.
47:47
And the method, the way we learn it, was in a such a natural way- Mm
47:52
that I have to say that you were the one that brought the idea of putting
47:58
it in a way that what is a method?
48:01
It is a thing that if you do it in a certain way, you
48:04
will achieve the same result.
48:07
Of course, we don't work with machines, so we cannot just do
48:11
it every time the single way.
48:12
Sure.
48:13
You have the basics, and if you under- But
48:15
Rupert Isaacson: there are certain rules of thumb, and then one can- There are.
48:18
There are â¦ be flexible within that.
48:20
Yes, absolutely.
48:20
Sofia Valenca: Like primary school has rules that should be there so
48:25
that the kids, they can learn that, the, how to read and how to write,
48:32
but every kid will learn differently.
48:35
And if you take them all the same way, in 10
48:39
Luis Valenca: kids-
48:40
Sofia Valenca: Sure â¦ six will succeed, the other four will not succeed.
48:44
So I think what is the most important thing about the method is that learn how
48:51
to read the student you have to work with.
48:55
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
48:57
Sofia Valenca: Learn how to understand what is the message you
49:01
want to pass and teach your horse.
49:04
Stick to a simple language-
49:07
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
49:07
â¦ Sofia Valenca: and you will succeed
49:10
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.
49:11
You know, when I was, when I first met my wife, Ileana, and I was doing
49:16
all my work with autism and which became Horse Boy Method, she said to
49:22
me, 'cause she's German, "Oh, you have a very systematic approach, Rupert."
49:27
And I said, "No.
49:28
No, I don't.
49:28
It's very intuitive.
49:29
It's veryâ¦"
49:30
Da-da.
49:31
She said, "No, no, I watch you.
49:32
You do that, you do that, you do that, you do that, and you do that."
49:36
Yeah.
49:36
And then in m- first I was like, "Mm."
49:38
And then I was like, "You know what?
49:39
Actually she's right."
49:41
And actually that's a good thing because it means this can be replicated.
49:47
So-
49:48
Sofia Valenca: Further.
49:49
Rupert Isaacson: Youâ¦
49:51
Luis Valenca: You know the modern things?
49:53
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, is that your cellphone going
49:55
Luis Valenca: off?
49:55
Oh, I don't know.
49:57
I
49:57
Rupert Isaacson: don't know.
49:57
The tyranny of the cellphone.
49:59
But hey, without that tyranny of the modern things, we could not be having
50:03
this conversation, so sometimes it's good.
50:07
All right, but SeÃ±or Luis, I'm gonnaâ¦
50:09
And you can, you can just make sure I get this right, Sofia.
50:12
I'm sure you're gonna tell me it's wrong because y- you do often.
50:15
But I stood next to you Luis.
50:21
And at your shoulder, you explained to me, "Okay, once we've established
50:29
our communication with the horses, we're going to lunge him in these th-
50:34
three ways that progressively will build his body and his mind, and his
50:39
balance, and his rhythm, and his muscle.
50:41
And then, Rupert, we're going to work him in hand in two basic patterns.
50:47
One with the haunches going around the shoulders, and the other with the
50:50
shoulders going around the haunches.
50:53
And this will eventually flower, these two things, into six things, which will
50:59
become those six laterals that we all use, the leg yield, the shoulder in,
51:03
the counter shoulders in, the half-pass, the travers, the half-pass, the renvers.
51:08
And then, Rupert, from those things other things will flower because
51:13
then we will use these things in combination with each other.
51:16
And from these will come things like the piaffe and the passage,
51:22
the changes, et cetera."
51:23
And I watched it and went, "Oh my God.
51:26
Yes, I see that."
51:28
And then I thought, "Ah, but can I r- r- reproduce that?
51:31
I don't know."
51:33
And we went home, and we did.
51:36
And we were astonished.
51:39
What was so astonishing was it wasn't just that you showed us how to do those
51:47
things, and explained also who taught you those things and where they had
51:52
come from, but as you said, Sophia, you can't just take a system and apply
51:58
it to an every child, every horse.
52:00
But what you can do is you can take a basic concept and say, "If I can be very
52:04
flexible within that concept," and say, yes, different children learn different
52:09
ways, but there are some ways of, say, learning to read or some ways of learning
52:16
numbers that are more or less universal.
52:19
And then if you end up with a son like my son, okay, you have to really rethink.
52:24
But you're still following back to, you talked about love, pleasure.
52:31
I had to make sure with my son that anything I did followed his
52:35
interests and gave him pleasure.
52:37
And then when that had happened, I could think about applying those universals,
52:43
but only in a way that suited him.
52:46
And I watched you guys doing that with horses, and I went,
52:50
"Oh my God, this is, this is it."
52:53
But will it work at home?
52:55
Or is it just that SeÃ±or Luis is a genius and okay, his kids are great because
52:59
they grew up with him, okay, fine.
53:01
And these horses are very talented, okay, fine.
53:03
But when I went home to my backyard quarter horses, to my messed up,
53:10
traumatized donated Thoroughbreds and other things, and I did those things
53:17
that I just described that you guys had shown me, it worked, and it worked
53:23
universally because there was flexibility.
53:27
And you had also said, "Oh, Rupert, if it doesn't work like this, then
53:30
think about doing it like this."
53:32
And, and then later a few times when I ran into problems, I contacted you guys
53:36
and said, "Oh, well, I've got a problem."
53:38
And you said, "Oh, yes, I had a horse like that in 1978, and
53:41
you have to do it like this
53:44
Mm-hmm That universality is something incredibly precious, and I think that you
53:52
guys don't give yourself enough credit.
53:55
I travel in 40 countries.
53:57
I work in 40 countries, not just with autism and the brain, but with
54:02
horses, and I see many good people.
54:04
Many.
54:05
Many.
54:06
Luis Valenca: There are much good people.
54:08
Rupert Isaacson: But I have never seen this universality.
54:17
And you yourself, Sophia, you go around in about 40 countries now and you're
54:23
encountering every type of breed.
54:25
So it's not just the Lusitano horse, and you're applying this and I see
54:31
you get these wonderful results.
54:34
So-
54:36
Be a little immodest now.
54:39
It's okay, it's allowed.
54:40
You guys are kind of good at what you do, and the world does actually need this.
54:44
I'll tell you why the world needs this at the moment.
54:46
We are in danger.
54:48
Our art is in danger.
54:51
There are people who think we should not ride horses, we should not own horses, we
54:57
should not use any equipment with horses.
55:00
We should not, we should not.
55:04
And this has come stronger and stronger in recent years, and with some good reason.
55:12
I will use a bad word.
55:14
The dressage world is a bit of a harsh world.
55:17
It's a world of assholes.
55:18
It has been.
55:19
It, it has itself to blame for taking a rigid, ugh, hierarchical, autocratic
55:29
view, giving horses a hard time, and the public eventually saying, "You know what?
55:34
We don't like it."
55:37
Sofia Valenca: The problem
55:37
Rupert Isaacson: is the- You guys have a solution to this, you do,
55:39
and I'd like you to talk about this.
55:41
You do have a solution to this.
55:43
Luis Valenca: It's- You, you know only one thing, huh?
55:45
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
55:46
Luis Valenca: Dressage is competition.
55:49
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
55:49
Luis Valenca: Moment there are competition, the man, the rider,
55:53
it's more strong than the horse.
55:56
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
55:56
Luis Valenca: And he force the horse to go in the points that he, he want to go, huh?
56:01
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
56:02
Luis Valenca: We have a big example now, one boy that have the same ideas, the same
56:09
system, the same basic teachers, huh, that it's now in the modern competition, it's,
56:19
Sofia Valenca: Justef Spoelman
56:20
Luis Valenca: Justef.
56:21
You know Justef?
56:23
That he have- The Belgian
56:24
Rupert Isaacson: dude.
56:24
Yeah
56:25
â¦ Luis Valenca: that he have the, the horse, it's the Oni- Janique.
56:28
Janique, huh?
56:30
You know?
56:30
You see that horse?
56:33
And that is example, if you have the, the system soft-
56:39
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
56:39
â¦ Luis Valenca: without force it, you can arrive there, huh?
56:43
Rupert Isaacson: 100%.
56:43
Because
56:43
Luis Valenca: he will have in his mind that I need to stay in the first in theâ¦
56:48
You stay in the first or in, in the, the second because the horse have to do things
56:54
well in the, a, a new, a new system.
56:57
But that, that boy- His teacher, it's Mr.-
57:04
Sofia Valenca: It's Leopold Gombert
57:05
â¦ Luis Valenca: Leopold, Leopold Gombert.
57:07
It is a, a rider that work with, with Nuno Oliveira.
57:12
And he have all â¦ He â¦ The basic, he have everything from the, the
57:16
soft way, the, the, the good system.
57:20
And he have put in their horse, he, and he have the result that you see.
57:23
Yes.
57:23
I have yours to do sometimes he does fantastic pirouettes with the reins soft.
57:30
That, and sometimes the boy, he smile because he have pleasure, huh?
57:35
Mm-hmm.
57:35
Like except the â¦ It's all the others, it's the, the, the â¦ In that
57:43
moment, I have seen now the, the World Championship in the television, huh?
57:49
It's fantastic horses, huh?
57:53
And fantastic riders.
57:56
Everything, it's the best that I have seen in my life.
57:59
But it's in another, in another theater.
58:04
Theater.
58:05
Mm-hmm.
58:06
I am in another theater more, more single, more quiet.
58:10
That you â¦ In, in our system, you need to, to profit the, the work
58:20
from each, not each day, each second, huh, that your should give you.
58:26
And that give to you a big, a big heart, huh?
58:31
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
58:32
Mm.
58:32
Sofia Valenca: Not ego.
58:33
Luis Valenca: The-
58:34
Sofia Valenca: Big heart, not the ego.
58:36
Luis Valenca: I've big â¦ My English, it's terrible.
58:39
Sofia Valenca: No, you do, you speak well.
58:42
Luis Valenca: But when I, I speak about something that I like,
58:46
maybe God give me s- the words.
58:49
Sometimes not correct,
58:51
Sofia Valenca: but- But,
58:51
Luis Valenca: That's important
58:52
â¦ Sofia Valenca: about the world, and you were mention a very important
58:56
subject, is that a, the world is going to a direction that people thinks that
59:03
the horses, they need to be in, not ridden, not using this, not using that.
59:11
I have to tell you that what happens to a, a person that has not a job, has not
59:19
a purpose in life, has nothing that will make him think, and the only thing he will
59:26
have is food available and a bed to sleep.
59:31
What you think it will happen to this person?
59:36
Rupert Isaacson: Well, I think we see it in our society.
59:39
So we, we- A lot
59:40
we see, we see- So this person- â¦ a crisis in mental health, yes.
59:43
Sofia Valenca: He will be very, very depressive.
59:46
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
59:47
Sofia Valenca: He will see the world in, in a very gray, dark way,
59:53
and we see this with the horses.
59:55
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
59:56
Sofia Valenca: The horses, they need a purpose.
59:59
They love, they need to love.
1:00:02
We need to, to give them the joy of learning how, how to, to, to be happy.
1:00:10
And, and we see this with our older horses that live the life with us, and
1:00:17
for different reasons, imagine they cannot keep working because, you know, age.
1:00:23
A horse, they get, they start to get old, and sometimes they start to really
1:00:28
have difficulties with the severe arthritis that they cannot work anymore.
1:00:32
And if we send them to a field and just leave them there, they will beâ¦
1:00:38
They will die.
1:00:39
They will die.
1:00:39
They need, they need the contact with the man.
1:00:43
They need to feel that they still have a role in this society.
1:00:50
They love when we make them think.
1:00:53
This is something that a lot of riders, they don't think.
1:00:55
When we ride, you make a horse think.
1:00:58
You need to make him be aware of how to put the feet here or there, on how to
1:01:05
sustain his own balance, on how toâ¦
1:01:08
We need to make them think.
1:01:10
And and that brings them the joy.
1:01:14
Mm.
1:01:14
It's like the same now, my father, imagine now he's retired, he
1:01:18
doesn't need to work anymore.
1:01:20
Can this man be home and no longer have the joy of doing what he loves?
1:01:27
He will be depressive.
1:01:28
The same happens with the horses, and the, the society, they don't
1:01:33
understand, or if they think a horse just to be in the field, it's because
1:01:38
they have never, ever had the chance or the happiness of really have a
1:01:46
boundary with a horse that it's unique.
1:01:50
A
1:01:50
Rupert Isaacson: bond with a horse.
1:01:51
Yeah, no, absolutely.
1:01:53
As you may know, if you've been following my work, we are also horsey folk here.
1:01:58
And we have been training horses for many, many years in the manner of
1:02:02
the old classical dressage masters.
1:02:06
This is something which is often very confusing for people.
1:02:09
We shine a light on that murky, difficult stuff and make it crystal clear.
1:02:14
If you'd like to learn to train your horse in the manner of the old masters and
1:02:19
really have fun and joy for you and your equine, go to our website, heliosharmony.
1:02:25
com Sign up as a premium member.
1:02:28
and begin to take the Helios Harmony course, which will take you from zero
1:02:32
to the Piaf, where the horse is dancing on the spot in hand on the ground.
1:02:38
And then from there, you can develop out to anywhere you want to.
1:02:43
Heliosharmony.
1:02:44
com to unlock the secrets of the old masters.
1:02:48
Luis Valenca: There's one thing.
1:02:49
When you speak about all that system, to love, to da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
1:02:55
It's notâ¦
1:02:57
There are something very straight in the middle.
1:03:00
Never take the personality from the horse The personality.
1:03:06
Eh?
1:03:07
The personality, the, how you tell the person, his per-
1:03:10
Sofia Valenca: Personality
1:03:11
â¦ Luis Valenca: personality from yours.
1:03:13
You need to go in this personality that yours understand what you love to speak
1:03:20
with this, with, with this system.
1:03:23
Is because, for example, in our horses Iberian horses,
1:03:29
not all can do the exercise.
1:03:34
Pres- for example, my horse, Zagalo, there are years before.
1:03:40
It's a horse that never do a good piaffe, and there are a moment I have tell,
1:03:47
"But I don't touch anymore the piaffe."
1:03:50
And he develop all the, his, things that he have, that he have
1:03:56
ground and that he have fantastic-
1:03:58
Sofia Valenca: Fantastic
1:03:58
Luis Valenca: Top, it's top with the exercise that he do well.
1:04:02
Not there are a poet that, that tell not all the mens can do the
1:04:11
same quality of his specialty.
1:04:16
He don't can do several specialty, huh, you know?
1:04:22
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
1:04:22
Luis Valenca: But he need all the things that he do, he needs to, to have much
1:04:27
interest, much how you say in English
1:04:32
Put to all- Passion?
1:04:34
all this passion in, in the-
1:04:37
Sofia Valenca: In what he does
1:04:37
â¦ Luis Valenca: in what it does, it does.
1:04:39
And with the artist it's the same, because when you speak about this,
1:04:42
I may be it's only to give sugar.
1:04:44
Oh, my â¦ No, no, it's not, huh?
1:04:46
That it's not.
1:04:47
It's not, huh?
1:04:48
With the children it's the same.
1:04:50
Take a chocolate.
1:04:51
Mm.
1:04:51
"Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:04:52
Don't count.
1:04:52
Take a chocolate."
1:04:53
No, no you, you, you don't â¦ You work â¦ You, you eat one chocolate, it's enough.
1:04:58
"I want more now."
1:04:59
You got to speak about another thing.
1:05:01
Da, da, da, da, da.
1:05:02
And with the artist the same, huh?
1:05:07
Sofia Valenca: Respect
1:05:07
Luis Valenca: his personality
1:05:08
â¦ Sofia Valenca: respect him,
1:05:09
Luis Valenca: but his personality- Do
1:05:10
Sofia Valenca: not break his
1:05:11
Luis Valenca: personality His personality, it's- Got it
1:05:13
it's the life of the horse.
1:05:15
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
1:05:16
Absolutely.
1:05:16
No, absolutely.
1:05:17
It's, I mean, we know that horses have been bred now selectively for
1:05:24
at least 6,000 years for the horses that seek contact with humans.
1:05:31
Because the horses that did not seek this contact, nobody in the Bronze
1:05:37
Age would breed that horse because that would be very impractical.
1:05:42
So we've now ended up with horses, with dogs, with other animals that
1:05:46
actively seek the contact with the human, and this is a beautiful thing.
1:05:51
And but nonetheless the public perception in some places, not everywhere, but
1:05:57
in some places, is that the very act of sitting on the horse, the
1:06:01
very act of domesticating the horse, is somehow now an act of abuse.
1:06:07
And unfortunately, with the media this has been exacerbated, let's say.
1:06:14
And particularly within the dressage world.
1:06:16
And that yet, here you guys stand where you prioritize love, you prioritize joy,
1:06:26
and you prioritize pleasure for the horse.
1:06:29
And I've seen it, and then I've taken what you showed me and seen that it was also
1:06:36
in all the old books by all the dead guys, and they said basically do the same thing.
1:06:40
And I watched horses go from depressed to joyful.
1:06:44
I watched horses go from arthritic to reverse aged.
1:06:48
I watched horses go from depressed to interested and engaged and fulfilled.
1:06:56
And
1:06:57
Sofia Valenca: it's one of the- Yeah â¦ beautiful-
1:06:58
Rupert Isaacson: This is something that you really have
1:07:00
to offer the world, I, I, I feel.
1:07:01
And you guys are-
1:07:02
Sofia Valenca: And our clients that come and visit us and spend their
1:07:05
time here with us, 'cause we, we also promote these weeks where people
1:07:10
come and emerge here to- Mm-hmm
1:07:13
learn our method.
1:07:15
It's a common sense that everybody says that the horses are happy.
1:07:20
The environment, it's, it's, it's a nice energy.
1:07:25
And mostly of our horses are stallions, but they all live in
1:07:30
a very peace and harmony way.
1:07:35
So it's, it's- It's here.
1:07:38
It's what people genuinely, genuinely, genuinely- Mm
1:07:44
I don't know
1:07:44
Rupert Isaacson: Genuinely
1:07:45
â¦ Sofia Valenca: genuinely, Yeah â¦ feel when they, when they come to us.
1:07:49
And and if you're listening to this podcast and you have been
1:07:52
here, I think you can people can,
1:07:55
Rupert Isaacson: There's a reason why people go back to you and back to you-
1:07:58
Sofia Valenca: Yeah â¦ and
1:07:58
Rupert Isaacson: back to you
1:07:59
Sofia Valenca: We, we have a lot of repeaters that come and
1:08:01
Luis Valenca: yes.
1:08:02
We have a lot, a lot of friends.
1:08:04
A lot of people from our religion, huh?
1:08:07
You know?
1:08:08
It's the re- I do â¦ it's something like that.
1:08:11
We have speak about music.
1:08:13
We have speak about philosophy, and now we speak about religion, huh?
1:08:19
That it's a religion.
1:08:20
Sofia Valenca: But it's a very open religion.
1:08:22
Luis Valenca: Yeah.
1:08:22
Sofia Valenca: Not that if you don't follow this religion we have to kill you.
1:08:26
Rupert Isaacson: Well, let's talk about that because some of the, as you know,
1:08:30
some of the dressage religions that are out there are very exclusive and will tell
1:08:38
people, "It's this way and only this way, and if you do anything else, you're out."
1:08:45
And unfortunately, we know that dressage attracts or can attract a
1:08:50
certain controlling personality type.
1:08:52
It's a sad truth, but it's a truth.
1:08:54
And then the joyful refugees from that end up at the Valenca's.
1:09:02
And then it's not a cult, because cults are exclusive.
1:09:09
It's a s- let's call it a spirituality, I would say, that's inclusive.
1:09:14
And we found this.
1:09:15
You know, I had been so used to showing up at dressage places.
1:09:19
And, you know, for the listeners and the viewers who don't know the Valenca stuff,
1:09:23
when you go into their arena, you will see horses in capriole, you will see horses in
1:09:28
courbette, and you'll also see a complete beginner over there doing something else,
1:09:33
and then you'll see an old man over there doing something else, and then you'll
1:09:37
see a kid with a pony, and then you'll see a, someone doing one times tempis.
1:09:41
And it's all the same people doing the same thing.
1:09:45
And by the way, you're gonna see people with special needs, and you're going to
1:09:49
see Ah, in all inclusive, what you're not going to see is walking into some high
1:09:57
prestige exclusive thing where people are like, "You know, we are the dressage
1:10:02
people, and you know, we're big and you're small, and, you know, give us your money
1:10:05
while we tell you how shit you are."
1:10:07
You know, and you know, which unfortunately is, is, is often the case.
1:10:11
And, and I think whatâ¦
1:10:13
It's not just that.
1:10:14
When people leave, they leave you with genuine tools, a toolbox that
1:10:22
they can take home, and th- this is, this is rather exceptional.
1:10:28
Yeah, it is.
1:10:29
Sofia Valenca: It's the tools- â¦ you can take home.
1:10:31
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
1:10:31
Sofia Valenca: And we always say it's because when people come here, they
1:10:35
already have passed through other experience or other methods, and we
1:10:40
always, we like to say that all methods have something good to teach you.
1:10:46
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
1:10:46
Sofia Valenca: And,
1:10:47
Luis Valenca: I- I-
1:10:48
Sofia Valenca: you know- You just have to design-
1:10:49
Luis Valenca: What, what-
1:10:50
â¦ Sofia Valenca: what you like more and create your own method
1:10:54
â¦ Luis Valenca: I, I respect all the, the, the methods, huh?
1:10:57
Mm.
1:10:57
Because it i- it's if a master do one system, you need to respect because
1:11:05
he have put his life to the horses.
1:11:07
Maybe he, his ideas it is that one.
1:11:10
I respect.
1:11:12
I have my ideas.
1:11:14
I love my ideas.
1:11:16
I sleep well with my ideas, huh?
1:11:20
And I try that the people come and, and to have that experience.
1:11:27
He, he, he come to sleep better.
1:11:29
I, I have some examples in the last month, some ladies that come
1:11:36
there are a group, one of the ladies tell, "I am professional."
1:11:40
Okay.
1:11:41
And, and the other, "I don't know anything.
1:11:44
I, I am a lit- I am a little afraid."
1:11:48
There are three ladies in that moment.
1:11:51
And you see that the, the professional have big problems, huh?
1:11:56
Force, ta, ta, ta.
1:11:58
Huh?
1:11:58
And the lady that tell, "I don't know anything," in two,
1:12:02
three lessons it's theâ¦
1:12:05
It's not the best, but it's that have the best results with the horses, huh?
1:12:11
And in the end of, I'd give example, a live example of
1:12:16
that week that we passed here.
1:12:18
All the three have s- smile, you know?
1:12:23
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
1:12:24
Luis Valenca: The, the, the, the professional smile.
1:12:27
He don't smile the first days.
1:12:29
Smile.
1:12:30
And they have do some exercise in, with the three horses that they tell, "I never
1:12:38
think that I am be able to do that," huh?
1:12:41
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
1:12:42
Luis Valenca: And it's, it's people with maybe 50, 60 years old, huh?
1:12:46
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
1:12:48
Absolutely.
1:12:48
So
1:12:49
Luis Valenca: I, I have example
1:12:53
There are much years before I have here a fantastic horse.
1:12:58
The name is Serchado.
1:13:01
It's a horse that he have, when he's young, he have a big problem when
1:13:07
his, with his tank because he have put he have cut the tank, he have a
1:13:12
surgery, he have all time the problem.
1:13:14
But that horse is dressed with our system, and it's my doctor who is
1:13:23
the doctor that ride that horse
1:13:26
And one day you go to do a, a show in Ita- Italy.
1:13:32
It's the Echoes from Milano.
1:13:37
It's a big event with horses.
1:13:41
And there are a man, a old man that want to buy my horse, Sultan, and I
1:13:47
tell, "No, I don't sell the Sultan."
1:13:51
After, some days after, he phone me, "And the gray.
1:13:55
The gray is a shadow.
1:13:56
It's a gray, dark gray, yeah."
1:13:59
And I tell, "That one, maybe.
1:14:02
It's only a way that you come here if you are be able to, to stay with the horse
1:14:07
because it horse with much temperament."
1:14:11
"Okay, I go."
1:14:12
And he come here with a man.
1:14:15
It's Mr.
1:14:16
Raggett.
1:14:17
It's the trainer from the Olympic group of Liechtenstein.
1:14:23
Mr.
1:14:23
Raggett is a little man like that, very nice man.
1:14:28
He ride the horse, and I remember in the long side there, he do
1:14:34
piaffe in the, in the corner.
1:14:36
He do a trot-
1:14:38
Sofia Valenca: Extended trot
1:14:39
â¦ Luis Valenca: extended trot.
1:14:40
In the end of the wall, he stay in piaffe, huh?
1:14:43
And after he stopping, he do that.
1:14:45
You know, Miss Helenis, I never feeling in my life something like that, so stopped.
1:14:51
I've, I, I think, and you have to, huh?
1:14:56
It's a Olympic, it's a Olympic rider, huh?
1:15:01
The example.
1:15:03
They buy the horse.
1:15:04
They buy the horse, and the horse go to Lynch and sign to Mr.
1:15:08
Raggett ride the horse during some time.
1:15:12
One year after, they phone me, tell there are the championship from
1:15:15
Europe dressage in, in Switzerland, and Raggett go with the horse
1:15:23
And I have go with my wife to see that festival.
1:15:28
We have do that.
1:15:29
It's not the first ones because you know all the, all the, all the, the
1:15:33
riders, they are German or speak ones.
1:15:36
You have the racket with the shot.
1:15:38
It's, it's not a, not very little, but it's also one meter 60, yeah And after
1:15:45
that, the horses go to the proprietary to Milano, because it stay one year
1:15:51
there to, to, to, to have some- Yeah
1:15:56
Sofia Valenca: dressage Dressage.
1:15:58
Luis Valenca: Some s- dressage competition.
1:16:01
And the proprietary that, the, from the horse, it's a, a old man.
1:16:05
It's, it's a Italian.
1:16:07
It's a Capitan Pellegrino, huh?
1:16:10
It's a man, a special man.
1:16:12
He tell me, "You know, I am Polo-
1:16:16
Sofia Valenca: Player
1:16:16
â¦ Luis Valenca: player.
1:16:18
I don't do more player for player, but I want one horse dress.
1:16:22
When there are big championship, maybe in the, in the
1:16:27
Sofia Valenca: In the break
1:16:28
Luis Valenca: in the break I can present the horse."
1:16:30
And said, "Okay, okay."
1:16:32
The horse have go one year after to Milan to Mr.
1:16:34
Ragit.
1:16:35
But Mr.
1:16:36
Ragit
1:16:37
Sofia Valenca: is- Pellegrini.
1:16:37
Luis Valenca: Pellegrino.
1:16:38
Pellegrino.
1:16:39
Mr.
1:16:40
Pellegrino is a very fat, very specialâ¦
1:16:44
Okay.
1:16:46
Sofia Valenca: He was not that fat.
1:16:47
Luis Valenca: One day, some, some weeks after, I am in the riding hall.
1:16:53
It's a Saturday.
1:16:55
And they tell, "Mr.
1:16:55
Pellegrino is the telephone.
1:16:57
Go quickly."
1:16:57
I come here, and he tell me, "You know, ValenÃ§a, I have
1:17:02
big problem with the horse.
1:17:04
The horse play with me.
1:17:06
He do what he want.
1:17:07
I go to, to castrate toâ¦"
1:17:10
How we tell?
1:17:11
Sofia Valenca: Gelding.
1:17:11
Luis Valenca: Gelding the horse.
1:17:12
Gelding.
1:17:12
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:17:13
" Luis Valenca: The next Wednesday.
1:17:14
We maybe because after I force him, the horse is to kick, he put up.
1:17:20
I have big problems.
1:17:21
Attention, Pellegrino, don't do that, huh?"
1:17:25
I take the fly, and the Sun- Monday I am here.
1:17:29
I am at Milano to see what happened.
1:17:32
And I have taken the fly with my doctor.
1:17:35
And you go to the big riding center.
1:17:39
The, I don't remember theâ¦
1:17:41
And Pellegrino is there with a costume, very English with the, the,
1:17:47
the, the, the, the Mexican Kazakh-
1:17:49
Rupert Isaacson: The hacking jacket, the tweed jacket
1:17:51
Luis Valenca: present.
1:17:52
Sofia Valenca: Right, yes.
1:17:53
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
1:17:53
The hack.
1:17:54
Luis Valenca: The horses go and see.
1:17:55
I go to ride the horse to see.
1:17:57
And he ride the horse.
1:17:59
The moment that he ride the horse, he take the reins.
1:18:02
The horse kick in the wall, pa, pa.
1:18:04
In the and Pellegrino, "You see, huh?
1:18:07
And to do that, you don't have do one vault in the riding hall."
1:18:12
And I say, "What happened?"
1:18:15
My doctor, he's there, and it's the corner begin to cry because
1:18:20
it's, it's the horse fall, huh?
1:18:22
And I have tell Pellegrino, "Wait a moment.
1:18:25
Can my doctor ride the horse five minutes?"
1:18:28
"Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:18:29
Come here."
1:18:32
And we go Pet the horse, give the smell.
1:18:37
The horse understand who is, who
1:18:41
is that is, is, is rider
1:18:45
She ride the horse and she have do all the program from the
1:18:49
horse that he do before, huh?
1:18:52
No, nothing, nothing different, huh?
1:18:57
And Mr.
1:18:58
Pellegrini is the corner cry.
1:19:02
And he tell, "You have reason.
1:19:04
It's not to, to getting the horse that reason, it's me
1:19:08
that I am a bad, a bad rider.
1:19:11
I am very strong because I doâ¦
1:19:13
I play polo, and that horse, it's a horse.
1:19:16
In Filigran my horse are very fine, huh?
1:19:19
The horse, it's the horse from your doctor," da, da, da.
1:19:22
And we have take dinner in a restaurant that are in the riding,
1:19:28
in the, that riding center.
1:19:30
And during the first five minutes everybody cry.
1:19:34
Pellegrino cry, my doctor cry.
1:19:38
And I have to that is the stop because I begin to cry too, huh?
1:19:44
And Pellegrini tell, "You know, the horse, it's the rider from the
1:19:48
horse it's your doctor, not me.
1:19:52
Now you need to take the horse in Portugal."
1:19:55
And I have tell, "It's impossible because the money of the horse,
1:19:59
I have building my house.
1:20:00
I don't have."
1:20:01
"No, no, you don't understand.
1:20:03
In that moment, I offer the horse to your doctor."
1:20:07
And he have give the horse, a horse that he have paid some
1:20:11
millions, huh, to my doctor.
1:20:13
And the horse have returned here in Portugal, and we have do
1:20:17
some competition with the horse.
1:20:19
What happened?
1:20:20
The horse have refused the bad, the badâ¦
1:20:28
It's not the bad, but- Was
1:20:29
Sofia Valenca: too much pressure
1:20:30
â¦ Luis Valenca: this pressure- Yeah â¦ from that man.
1:20:32
In the moment that he have, that he have feeling my doctor, it allow him.
1:20:39
It's like the sky that open, and he have do a exhibition, fantastic exhibition in,
1:20:45
in Milan with the, with, with me, huh?
1:20:48
That horse it could later he have died here, old.
1:20:52
And that it's a story from the, the way that you need to communicate with the
1:21:01
horses, and the horses give you return.
1:21:05
They do.
1:21:05
That good communication or the bad communication, huh?
1:21:09
Rupert Isaacson: They do.
1:21:09
Luis Valenca: They do.
1:21:09
With Pellegrini give the bad communication with Kiki and in the moment that my doctor
1:21:15
ride the horse, he remember the old time that he have passed here, and he give back
1:21:25
Rupert Isaacson: all.
1:21:25
Now, it's an interesting story because theâ¦
1:21:28
I think one of the mistakes there, and it's a mistake we have all made, I have
1:21:34
made it many times, but I largely stopped making it after I spent time with you,
1:21:42
which was- I realized that it was the work in hand, it was the work on the
1:21:48
ground that established the clarity, established everything, and the softness.
1:21:55
And particularly if you're like me and you're not a particularly
1:21:59
talented rider, I'm okay, but, you know, I don't have to pretend to
1:22:03
be a particularly talented rider.
1:22:05
In fact, for me, one of the proofs of your system is that I can approach itâ¦
1:22:12
I was a pretty late comer to this whole dressage classical thing.
1:22:17
My background was not in that.
1:22:19
In fact, I only came to it because of my story with autism and finding that
1:22:25
horses in soft collection made first my son and then other kids like my
1:22:30
son communicate because of oxytocin.
1:22:34
So then I needed to learn more, and I needed to get
1:22:37
therapy horses going like this.
1:22:38
So the fact that even somebody like me could end up doing all those
1:22:44
things that you just described, things like piaffe into an extended
1:22:48
trot to piaffe, and think, "My God.
1:22:50
How is this possible?"
1:22:51
It's possible because the system is so good.
1:22:54
And it, y- you guys really showed me, you know, don't ride through problems.
1:23:02
Establish communication with horses.
1:23:05
Learn how to teach them everything you're going to do when you
1:23:08
ride them before you ride them.
1:23:11
Then add a rider with somebody on the ground to transfer what the
1:23:17
horse knows from the ground to the monkey sitting on the back.
1:23:21
We call it now ground monkey and sky monkey, and, 'cause that's
1:23:25
the horse's experience of us.
1:23:26
We're monkeys, right?
1:23:28
And then suddenly the horse is like, "Oh, okay.
1:23:31
Yeah, yeah.
1:23:32
I get that.
1:23:32
I accept."
1:23:33
And you guys really showed me that, and I've seen you show
1:23:37
so many other people that.
1:23:39
And through you, I have shown enough people that, and I'm incredibly grateful
1:23:44
because when I'm working with autistic people or people with trauma or whatever,
1:23:53
they are not trying to be good riders.
1:23:56
That's not w- what they, that's not why they are entering the, the theater.
1:24:04
They want healing.
1:24:07
They want amelioration.
1:24:09
And the horse that you showed me how to produce gives them that amelioration.
1:24:19
And you've talked about Bea, your, B, your your other daughter, and you've
1:24:23
also t- Philippa, and you've talked to, obviously we've got Sophia here.
1:24:26
There's a daughter we haven't talked about, which is Philippa,
1:24:29
who also is part of the team.
1:24:32
Philippa also really showed me, and my wife Illiana, with great clarity
1:24:39
and great patience in my case the work on the ground as well, and then how
1:24:46
to translate that into the saddle.
1:24:49
And so when people come and they work with you, they get the
1:24:54
chance to work with this wholeâ¦
1:24:57
It's tribal.
1:24:58
They get to work with this intergenerational tribe of
1:25:03
people who all know how to communicate the system really well.
1:25:10
And Philippa, she's so humble, she's so modest.
1:25:12
I, I want to get her on this podcast as well, and we'll probably have to
1:25:16
chain her to the chair because, y- you know, she has very little ego.
1:25:20
But noneâ¦
1:25:22
And then, you know, th- maybe they'll also work with your daughter, you know, Sophia,
1:25:26
with Inez, your granddaughter Luis.
1:25:30
And people get the benefit of this in a way that I think it's unique.
1:25:36
And the horses also respond, I think, because they're
1:25:39
part of this tribal system.
1:25:41
They're part of this.
1:25:43
Horses are tribal, right?
1:25:45
Horses are herd animals.
1:25:47
They live in tribes.
1:25:48
Humans are tribal.
1:25:51
The whole system that we all use now began somewhere 4,000, 6,000 years ago
1:25:57
with tribes, people living in tents.
1:26:00
You know, grandad, mum, grandma, granddaughter.
1:26:06
But these days it's rare to find it like that.
1:26:11
You guys do offer it.
1:26:13
Mm.
1:26:14
But people still don't know about you.
1:26:16
Why?
1:26:17
Because there's no book.
1:26:19
So when people say, "Well, who is this Mr.
1:26:21
ValenÃ§a?
1:26:22
Rupert, you tell me about this Mr.
1:26:23
ValenÃ§a."
1:26:24
And I went onto the Xenophon Publishing website and, but where is the book?
1:26:28
I see a book by this person, I see a book by this, this German person, this
1:26:32
Danish person, this French person.
1:26:34
Where is the book?
1:26:36
I'm like, "You know, you're right.
1:26:37
There needs to be a book."
1:26:39
Luis Valenca: You know, there are no book, but there are one thing very important.
1:26:43
There are a big family
1:26:48
All in the world of the horses that understand the, the, the way
1:26:54
that you work with the horses.
1:26:57
And you have one people that you don't have speak now
1:27:00
that don't ride, is my wife.
1:27:04
Mm.
1:27:04
Because my wife, all this life there are- The
1:27:08
Rupert Isaacson: chief of the clan, indeed, yes
1:27:10
â¦ Luis Valenca: chief of the clan and you have passed much- Yeah â¦ in the last.
1:27:14
He never tell me stop to do that.
1:27:17
Mm.
1:27:17
For example, in the years '74- Mm â¦ with the revolution, I need
1:27:22
to go with the horses and my doctors, the Sofia, you have four months.
1:27:26
You go to Spain.
1:27:28
After to Spain, you to the island Canaries.
1:27:30
And all time my wife said, "No, you go.
1:27:33
You go, huh.
1:27:34
You go, huh."
1:27:35
Sofia Valenca: We go.
1:27:35
Luis Valenca: We go.
1:27:36
We go.
1:27:36
And all the family have go.
1:27:38
We passed three years there.
1:27:40
We have learned much things there.
1:27:42
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:27:43
Luis Valenca: We have learned much things about about horses and
1:27:47
about tourism with the horses, huh?
1:27:50
And it's very important to have that chief that give the, the- Mm â¦ impulsion.
1:27:57
I speak now impulsion, that, that give the impulsion to stay in the
1:28:03
same, in the same circle, huh?
1:28:06
And the circle, it's horses, live with the horses, and do the same work that you
1:28:13
do in the beginning of his life, now more in with more experience, huh, and more-
1:28:23
it's like the, the player for music, the pi- pianista, in the beginning is
1:28:29
very, very strong and very fantastic.
1:28:33
Now in the end of his life they have more, the, the fingers- Softer â¦ more softer.
1:28:39
Right.
1:28:40
And it's my wife that give that it's the big ship of that big circle-
1:28:45
Sofia Valenca: Of the-
1:28:46
â¦ Luis Valenca: family
1:28:46
â¦ Sofia Valenca: of the clan.
1:28:47
But also, I think the way we grow up, learning how to respect horses,
1:28:57
because we need to respect horses if we want their respect back, and
1:29:04
that love, you just don't learn how to respect horses or to love horses.
1:29:09
Yeah.
1:29:09
It's so
1:29:10
Rupert Isaacson: true.
1:29:10
Sofia Valenca: It's, it's a way of being in life.
1:29:13
It's a way of respecting the family the importance of the family, the
1:29:19
love that family will give you.
1:29:22
And if y- if you are like that in life, life is- Mm â¦ it's much, it's better.
1:29:28
It's more, you have more colors in your life.
1:29:32
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
1:29:32
Sofia Valenca: You learn how to be respecting others, loving
1:29:37
others, and it's not just about the horses, but we, we kind ofâ¦
1:29:43
Our school was learning and growing up respecting horses, and that
1:29:48
somehow have teach us how to be in, in this world where the respect for
1:29:55
others, it's, it's very important.
1:29:58
And this is what gives the- That feeling of a tribe because we
1:30:04
are like a tribe, like I said
1:30:07
Rupert Isaacson: And your tribe is now global.
1:30:08
You know, I'm ju- I am just one of the many.
1:30:11
And now I have lots of students, and of course, what do I do?
1:30:14
I send every student I have to you because that's just the obvious thing to do.
1:30:19
Go to the source.
1:30:20
Go to the source of the knowledge.
1:30:21
But so you have reached out personally, but you've also
1:30:25
reached out through other people.
1:30:28
I am one of many people that you have transmitted knowledge to, to make
1:30:32
life for horses and riders better.
1:30:34
But not just horses and riders, also, like I say, people with
1:30:37
autism, people with trauma.
1:30:40
The, the, the techniques that we use with the German Army
1:30:44
and their returning warriors.
1:30:46
The techniques that we use with the US Air Force or the ex-Marine Corps from the UK.
1:30:52
The techniques that we use with adult autists.
1:30:55
The techniques that we use w- in the foster child system.
1:30:58
The techniques that we're going to be starting to use in
1:31:00
the prison system quite soon.
1:31:02
The techniques that we use, You've met Leanna Tank, you know, who does
1:31:07
our stuff who works in the criminal justice system in Michigan with you
1:31:11
know, people with psychosis and so on.
1:31:13
All of these people, and the horses that they work with, have been benefited,
1:31:19
I can tell you this, by you, Mr.
1:31:23
Valensa.
1:31:25
Luis Valenca: Amen.
1:31:25
Rupert Isaacson: And out through your daughters, and
1:31:28
through you from your masters.
1:31:29
This is how it should be.
1:31:31
But I can tell you that your reach, just through my organization alone, it's
1:31:36
about 300,000 people directly through.
1:31:44
And all of my people go and learn with you.
1:31:46
Joelle Dunlap, Leanna Tank, Cheryl Barto, everyone, they all, they all come
1:31:51
because it's the obvious thing to do.
1:31:53
And you give them the tools, and then they go away and they use these tools,
1:31:57
not to just do piaffes and passages, not just, not to get competition results.
1:32:02
But if they want to do that, that's fine.
1:32:05
But to really ameliorate the lives of suffering humans and suffering equines
1:32:16
So the good news is, as you know, Mr.
1:32:19
Richard Williams, the publisher of Xenophon Press, he very
1:32:23
much wants to do the book.
1:32:25
We must do the book.
1:32:28
You cannot not have the book of the system out there.
1:32:32
So I'm going to be coming, and we're going to be recording, and
1:32:37
w- we just ha- it has to be done.
1:32:39
You can't one day leave the planet and have this not done.
1:32:45
It would be a great loss.
1:32:49
But before that book is made, 'cause it takes a while to put books
1:32:52
together, the good news is people can come and learn with you directly,
1:32:56
and they can learn with you online.
1:32:59
So perhaps you can tell us, how can people contact you?
1:33:03
How can they come?
1:33:05
And I can also promise you, listener, and you, viewer, it's open to everybody.
1:33:11
It doesn't matter who you are.
1:33:13
Don't think, "Oh, I'm not good enough.
1:33:15
I can't go."
1:33:17
They don't give a shit.
1:33:18
They'll just welcome you with open arms, and they will give you the tools.
1:33:24
All right, so h- so how, how do people do it?
1:33:28
Sofia Valenca: Well, through our website www.valenciaequestrianacademy.com.
1:33:35
Rupert Isaacson: ValenÃ§a Equestrian Academy.com.
1:33:38
Academy.
1:33:39
Yeah.
1:33:40
Sofia Valenca: Or yeah, in the website you can find the, the email, or through the
1:33:45
social media, you know, even Sofia ValenÃ§a or ValenÃ§a Classical Riding because
1:33:51
we couldn't change the name anymore.
1:33:53
But you, youâ¦
1:33:54
through ValenÃ§a Classical Riding or ValenÃ§a Equestrian Academy, you will
1:33:58
find us in, in the social media as well.
1:34:03
And if you don't find us, ask Rupert, 'cause he knows.
1:34:06
Rupert Isaacson: I'll tell you, yeah.
1:34:07
And of course, all those links will be in the show notes.
1:34:10
As you know, I'm one of your many fans.
1:34:13
We're at about the two-hour mark.
1:34:16
Luis Valenca: We-
1:34:16
Rupert Isaacson: so before we close there's two things I'd like to do.
1:34:19
One is I'd like to continue this conversation not so much with a podcast,
1:34:25
but with a series of sh- perhaps shorter conversations on YouTube with both of you
1:34:30
and with Filipa, I think where we can talk about specific aspects of, ah, not just
1:34:38
training, but also the certain challenges that people find with their horses.
1:34:42
And I'm gonna collect a bunch of those questions and then bring them to you.
1:34:47
And with your permission, we will do those because that will be helpful for people.
1:34:52
But before we close Ksenia and Luiz, i- if you had
1:35:01
A parting remark.
1:35:02
If you had a piece of information that you know that most
1:35:09
people with horses do not know
1:35:14
But need to know
1:35:20
What is it?
1:35:23
What is that thing?
1:35:25
Sofia Valenca: Tens alguma informaÃ§Ã£o sobre cavalos que achas que tu possas
1:35:31
dar ao mundo que os outros nÃ£o tÃªm?
1:35:38
Luis Valenca: You know, I finish our conversation like you have beginner.
1:35:44
It's so easy and so difficult communicate with the riders.
1:35:54
Easy because our system is very easy.
1:35:58
Sometimes complicated because the people sometimes think that he knows everything.
1:36:03
I don't know anything.
1:36:05
I know that I love the horses.
1:36:08
I know what I need to put in the horses in the moment that I dress the horses.
1:36:15
It's our system, our method.
1:36:19
But that people need to stay very open and can heard our commentary about the
1:36:33
exercise that you do with the horses.
1:36:37
And the principal it's love, passion, love, passion and passion and love.
1:36:45
Sofia Valenca: I would say learn how to listen what your horse is saying.
1:36:53
Luis Valenca: You know, my horses, principal the old ones that give lessons
1:37:00
all days, sometimes he give two lessons.
1:37:07
But normal he work only one time because I respect the horses with some
1:37:15
some experience and, and it's not a baby.
1:37:19
It's five, six years old.
1:37:21
They have a little more.
1:37:23
But each time that they come to the lesson, he come â¦ You know, I
1:37:29
have one thing when with the horse that that my teacher horses, huh?
1:37:34
When I arrive in the riding hall, I give a sugar or a carrot.
1:37:38
And in the end of the lesson, I give a sugar or a carrot,
1:37:42
Rupert Isaacson: huh?
1:37:43
Luis Valenca: And the horses when they enter in the riding hall, he know that
1:37:47
he going to have that surprise, huh?
1:37:50
And he communicate with you.
1:37:53
He arrive there, and he do that, and do that because know that he begin a lesson
1:37:58
that, and I give, â¦ It's like the, the â¦ It's like the children, huh?
1:38:02
It's like the children.
1:38:03
My, my little, little-
1:38:06
Sofia Valenca: Granddaughter.
1:38:06
Luis Valenca: Grand- Granddaug- my grand granddaughter.
1:38:09
Rupert Isaacson: Great-great, yeah.
1:38:10
Luis Valenca: And the daughter.
1:38:11
All the time he tell, "Vovo, chocolate."
1:38:14
Yes.
1:38:15
In the hand, okay?
1:38:16
"Vovo, chocolate."
1:38:17
No.
1:38:17
In the hand.
1:38:18
And after I, I do another thing in the â¦ When he finish to do
1:38:23
this, okay, now a little chocolate.
1:38:25
A little chocolate because chocolate it's not good to the children, huh?
1:38:29
But it's not good because give, give that possession that he like.
1:38:35
It's like the horses.
1:38:37
When you give a carrot, you give one carrot in the beginning,
1:38:41
one carrot in the end.
1:38:43
If all time you give carrots, the horses are not attentive.
1:38:47
They are attentive to the carrots or to the sugar, huh?
1:38:51
But if you have space, it's Max, did you
1:38:58
The horses, he, he, he knows that you have that gourmandise, huh?
1:39:02
But with discipline.
1:39:05
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
1:39:06
Luis Valenca: It's a way to impose discipline without force, huh?
1:39:10
Rupert Isaacson: And with pleasure.
1:39:12
Luis Valenca: Yeah, pleasure, yeah.
1:39:13
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah.
1:39:15
Luis Valenca: It's very good- Well- â¦ that conversation, huh?
1:39:18
Thank you very much, huh.
1:39:19
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you, and let's do this again as
1:39:23
soon as your schedules allow.
1:39:27
Please talk to Philippa as well.
1:39:28
I- I already
1:39:29
Sofia Valenca: told her.
1:39:30
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah
1:39:30
Sofia Valenca: So she's-
1:39:31
Rupert Isaacson: People need to know about her.
1:39:33
Luis Valenca: Philippa
1:39:33
Rupert Isaacson: is
1:39:33
Luis Valenca: very special,
1:39:35
Rupert Isaacson: She's a special person.
1:39:36
She's a well-kept secret.
1:39:37
Luis Valenca: Very, very, very minutious that makes these.
1:39:43
It's-
1:39:44
Sofia Valenca: In detail.
1:39:45
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
1:39:46
Luis Valenca: Yeah, details.
1:39:46
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.
1:39:47
Luis Valenca: Details.
1:39:47
Rupert Isaacson: All of us have had this experience with her.
1:39:50
Luis Valenca: Yeah.
1:39:50
Sometimes it's, it's a lot of details.
1:39:53
Rupert Isaacson: What I found with her and for the p- the listeners and the viewers
1:39:57
yes, we're gonna get this person on.
1:39:59
Everyone I know who has worked with Philippa, the details usually come down
1:40:03
to between two and five very specific things that she can identify and say,
1:40:11
"Hey, look, if you, if you change this to this, and if you change this to this- Yeah
1:40:14
and you change this to this, then it's really going to go well."
1:40:18
And they're often quite small things.
1:40:21
I would, I would love to see the conversation actually between
1:40:24
my wife, Ileana, and Philippa, because they're quite similar.
1:40:27
And she, yeah, she, she, she really helps people with these details.
1:40:32
So anyway, yes, we'll, we'll, we'll have her on.
1:40:34
And she also approaches it with great love, you know.
1:40:37
So listen, I'm very, very grateful that you guys took the time to do this.
1:40:42
Sofia Valenca: Thank you for having us.
1:40:44
Luis Valenca: Okay.
1:40:45
Rupert Isaacson: Bye.
1:40:45
And we, we will do it again soon.
1:40:48
Au revoir.
1:40:48
Ã la prochaine, huh?
1:40:49
Luis Valenca: Au revoir.
1:40:50
Rupert Isaacson: I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as much as I did.
1:40:55
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1:41:08
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