Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / Episode 41: Pam Hupp

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Episode 41: Pam Hupp · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

0:11
SPEAKER_01: Hello, all you true crime divas and dudes.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm Sarah and welcome back to your favorite true crime podcast, Deadly Debas.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Tina.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: And if you're new here, welcome.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: We break down a new true crime case for you every Friday.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: So don't forget to follow us on TikTok and Facebook and subscribe to our YouTube channel.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: So today we're covering the case of Pam Hupp.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: And if you've listened to episode one of our podcast, the Get to Know Your Debas episode, you will have heard that it was while on a road trip that we discovered that we both liked true crime when we were deciding what to play in the car.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: And What About Pam by Dateline was the first one we listened to together.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Now by the end of that trip, we had decided to start a true crime podcast of our own.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: And this is like a homecoming, right?
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Like we're going back to the beginning.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: Back to the beginning.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: And the reason that I suggested playing that one is just because it's one of my most fascinating favorites.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: I hate to say favorite true crime story because somebody died.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, more than one person in this case, but just all the twists and turns make it so unforgettable.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Definitely unforgettable.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: That's the perfect word.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: So here we go.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: Pamela Marie Newman was born in 1958, and when she married her second husband, Mark Hupp, in the 80s, she became Pam Hupp.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Pam originally had a career in life insurance, but was fired in 2001 for forging signatures.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: Um right.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: So after that, she worked for State Farm doing administration work.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: So State Farm hired her to do administrative work after she had been fired for forging signatures.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: And it was while she was at State Farm that she was forging signatures.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: So it's not like she even switched insurance company.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Somehow she talked somebody into a demotion with her smooth, manipulating ways.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Unbelievable, y'all.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: She also dabbled in some real estate flipping, but by the time this story takes place, she was no longer working and she claimed disability.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she clearly doesn't want to work.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Not if there's other ways to make money.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: Also, Pam was accused in 2011 of collecting money for a family affected by cancer, but not giving a single penny of it to the family.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, she's just getting worse and worse.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: I know.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: No investigation ever took place into that, even after it had been reported to the authorities.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: So I think not only does this tell us a lot about Pam's character, but it also shows you the pattern that we often see of criminals getting away with so many little crimes, they just start to feel untouchable, and then the crimes get bigger and worse.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: They never learn that there are consequences.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: Because when they first start, they don't get any consequences, so then they push it a bit further.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: It's like a two-year-old.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, give them an inch and they take a mile as they say.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: You will see as we go through the events of this case that that's exactly what Pam did.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: What I also hate about the whole scamming charity collection thing was she used Betsy's name.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Just a disgusting person.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because Betsy had cancer.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: She was like, I'm doing this in honor of Betsy.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: I hate her.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're stealing money in honor of Betsy?
3:28
SPEAKER_01: Probably a lot.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: So our story really starts with Pam's best friend, Betsy Faria, the Betsy I just mentioned.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: So Elizabeth K.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Meyer was born in 1969, and she also worked for the same state farm agency.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: So that's how they met.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: She enjoyed working as a DJ on the side.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: She was known to everyone as Betsy, and she married husband Russ Faria in 2001, and they lived in Troy, Missouri with her two daughters from a previous relationship.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: The marriage had some ups and downs, a couple of short separations even, but they always worked it out.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: Her family and friends described Betsy as fun-loving, social, happy, outgoing soul who loved to sing, which is how I picture a DJ.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: You've got to be the life of the party to DJ the party.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: Now, sadly, in 2009, Betsy was diagnosed with breast cancer and she had to have a massectomy.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: And the whole ordeal left her very depressed, and she just could not shake this depression.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And in fact, in January 2010, she was pulled over at a traffic stop, and she actually admitted to the police officers that had pulled her over that she often had thoughts of suicide.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: That's so sad.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: I know.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Just the fact that she felt like she could open up to this police officer.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes it's easier with a stranger.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's probably what it was.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and she was probably so flustered at being pulled over, she became emotional.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: I can see how that would all spill out.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully they didn't give her a ticket after that.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: I know literally, if you want to let anybody go, please let her go.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, so after a year of treatment, Betsy was believed to be cancer free.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: However, in October 2011, Betsy was informed that the cancer not only had returned, it had metastasized to her liver and was now considered terminal.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: So in November 2011, she went on a what she called celebration of life cruise with Russ and about 20 friends.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: I can't imagine trying to keep 20 people organized.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Right?
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, let's all go play bingo.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Is everybody here meeting the hallway?
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's way too many people to keep track of, especially on a cruise.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: As it is.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: I I've been on cruises, but it's either been me and my husband or me and a friend.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: And when the two of you are trying to decide what to do, it's hard enough without 20 people.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: That did include like her daughters and everything.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: I think it was like mainly family.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: But she had this lifelong dream to swim with dolphins.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: And Russ wanted to make sure that that happened before the cancer took her.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: And while on the cruise, she was able to achieve that dream.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: So once they returned home from the cruise, remember that was in November.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, so right before Christmas, and the whole holiday season was rather somber for them, really.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the doctors had only given her two to three years to live.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: And it must be really such a roller coaster of like, I want to spend the last few Christmases I have having the time of my life, but at the same time, it's gotta be hard to keep your spirits up.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Right, gotta be hard to actually enjoy that.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: But for the sake of, I guess, your family, you're like, all right, these are the last memories they're gonna have.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: I gotta put on my happy face.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: On December 27th, 2011, Betsy had a chemo appointment, and she stayed at her mother's house the night before because it was just closer to the chemo facility, and she returned to her mother's house after the treatment.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: Now, from her mother's house, she was driven home by her friend Pam Hupp.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Originally her husband Russ was supposed to pick her up, but Pam had like insisted on driving her home instead.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: It was just weird.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, no, I'm doing it.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: So she dropped Betsy off around 7 p.m., though one of Betsy's daughters actually tried to call her about 7.21, but got no response, but knew that Betsy was supposed to be home by then.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: So Russ had been at a friend's house for their regular game night, though due to being a player short that night, they had watched movies instead of playing their usual Dungeons and Dragons type game.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: So hilarious.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, like our wizard is down for the count.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: Can you come be our fill-in wizard tonight?
7:37
SPEAKER_00: If somebody called me and said, could you be our step-in wizard tonight, I'd be like, What?
7:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to do that.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: What?
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Abraconabra.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: So on his way home, Russ stopped at Arby's to get a bite to eat.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I love those jamoca shakes.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: A Jamocha shake and some curly fries and a cup of cheddar.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Ugh, can't be beat.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: So Russ got back to the house around 9.40 p.m.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: and he finds Betsy laying in a pool of blood in their living room.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: With a knife protruding from her neck.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: And he sees slash marks on her arms.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: And when he called the police in panic, he tells them he believes that his wife has committed suicide.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: However, when the police arrive, it's obvious to them that Betsy didn't do this to herself.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: Someone had murdered her.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: They study the scene and notice a rug has been dislodged, indicating that there may have been a struggle.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: There was no forced entry to the home, there's no blood anywhere, like visible in the house, and it just seemed all rather suspicious to them, like it just wasn't adding up.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: They also find it strange that Russ said it was suicide.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: Of course, the husband's always the primary suspect until ruled out, so they're gonna automatically jump there.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: But I totally understand why he might think that there's cuts on the wrist, the knife is still lodged in the neck, there's no forced entry, there's no blood, she had been suicidal in the past before she even knew the cancer was terminal.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: And he's no expert.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: He's never seen a scene like this before, which the police have.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: He's looking at it through the eyes of a shocked husband with a suicidal wife.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: He didn't stop to count the stab wounds and know all of their locations.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: So the police take Russ in for questioning and ask him to go through the steps that day leading up to finding Betsy murdered.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: So he tells them about game night, shows them his receipt to Arby's, and they question him about life insurance policies that Betsy had.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: Obviously they're looking for some kind of motive.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: He explains that she did have policies, but most of them are just split between her two daughters.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: She wanted to make sure they were looked after.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: He tells them that Betsy's oldest daughter, Leah, who is currently twenty one, lives with Bets' sister due to problems that they had with her stealing from them and generally just being rebellious, unruly, hard to handle, youngster.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: They eventually let Russ go and decide to interview other members of Betsy's family.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: They go to see Betsy's sister and her daughter, Leah, who lives with her sister, to ask about their whereabouts the night before, and they inform them that Betsy's been hurt.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: They don't actually tell them yet that she's passed.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: They just want to see a reaction.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: And that was because Leah obviously had now been given a motive that she wasn't getting on with her mom, she didn't live with her mom, and she was gonna get money if something happened to her mom's.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: You can see why they're looking down that road.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: They then go to see Pam Hub because she could have been the last person to have seen Betsy alive.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: And ask her about dropping Betsy off the night before.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: Now she says that she did go in the house with Betsy, who wanted her to stay and watch a movie with her till Russ got home, but she refused and left.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: And she says that she tried to call Betsy when she got home to say, you know, hey, I'm home safe, but Betsy didn't answer.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Pam said that she wanted to leave before Russ got home.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: So even though Betsy was like, hey, stay with me, watch a movie, I'm not feeling great from the chemo, hang out with me.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Pam said that she just doesn't like Russ.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: So she didn't want to stay there till Russ got home.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: She doesn't like the comments he makes or how mean he is to Betsy.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes he talks about the money he's gonna get when Betsy dies, and even putting a pillow over her face as some kind of game, telling Betsy, well, this is what it's gonna feel like when you die.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay, if that's true, that is incredibly damning.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, none of this is really making any sense in my head.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: If Betsy had told her that Russ did that, it seems like you'd be saying, hey, you need to leave this guy, not I'm gonna leave Brigitte here.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: So according to Pam, Betsy had become afraid of him.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: Again, I'm just gonna say, if I was Betsy's friend and I'd just dropped her off from a chemo session and she was afraid of her husband, I'd be making an attempt to stay there for Betsy's sake, not leave for mine.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she absolutely insisted that, oh, I'm gonna drive her to this appointment, and then it's bye, Sayanara, see ya.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, you don't feel good and you want me to stay.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't like your husband, so I'm going home.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Pam also said that Betsy had even changed one of her life insurance policies from Russ as a beneficiary to Pam herself.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, because she was worried that Russ wouldn't use the money for her daughters.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: So she said, Hey Pam, I'm gonna change it to you, make sure that my daughters get it.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: So police have to wonder if Russ found out about this change, and that's what made him mad at his wife.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Because up until now, Russ doesn't have a motive.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: The autopsy comes back, and police find that Betsy has been stabbed 55 times.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: And the first few strikes actually killed her.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: The rest were inflicted post-mortem, which definitely indicates this is no stranger, no house intruder or burglar would do that.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: No.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, definitely something much more personal.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: They also find active sperm in Betsy, which is a DNA match for Russ.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's her husband.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: Now Russ claims the last time they had sex was on Christmas Day, so only two days previously.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: And we know sperm lives forever, unfortunately.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, five to seven days is active, right?
13:15
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, that tracks.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: But they also find a mistress that Russ had while Betsy was going through chemo the first time.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: They questioned this mistress about the relationship she had with Russ.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: And she said, Look, I told Russ, you've got to choose between me and Betsy.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: But he wouldn't, so I ended the relationship.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't look good, Russ, at all.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: So while searching the house using luminol, police do actually find some evidence that the kitchen had had some blood cleaned up.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: So although it wasn't obvious when they first turned up, apparently this luminol showed that there had been blood there.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, none of this is looking good for Russ, and police soon arrest him and charge him with Betsy's murder.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Now his family, they were convinced he didn't do it.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: They're like, there's just no way he loved Betsy.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: So they hire defense attorney Joel Schwartz and ask him if he will take the case.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: And before he agrees to it, he decides he's gonna go visit Russ in jail first.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: But after one visit, Joel is convinced that Russ is innocent.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: In fact, he finds it just completely crazy that Russ was even arrested when the four Dungeons and Dragons game playing friends are all giving him an alibi.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: He takes the case believing that it's gonna be easy to get these charges thrown out.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: So Joel can't believe that the police haven't investigated anyone else at all.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: Mainly Pam Hupp, the last person to see Betsy alive, owned only four days after Betsy had changed her life insurance policy to benefit Pam.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: And guess who doesn't have an alibi?
14:50
SPEAKER_01: However, prior to the hearing, the prosecution filed a motion that doesn't allow any mention of Pam Hupp and their particular life insurance policy that's been changed to be mentioned during the trials.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: He was setting up to railroad Russ.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Pretty much.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Now their reason being Pam's not the one on trial.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, true, but if there's something that negates his guilt, it should be allowed.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's compelling.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: If it was just some random thing, okay, but this is blatant motive.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: But their point was what the defense have to do is give reasonable doubt to Russ, not pin it on somebody else.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Like she's not on trial.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: So you can't point the finger.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: You just have to prove why it wasn't him, not why it was someone else.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: And the police just seemed to be dead set on Russ did this.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Right.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, they just wanted to railroad him.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: So they call Betsy's daughters to the stand, and they tell the jury that they had this really tumultuous relationship with Russ.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's a stepdad.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: It happens.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, police have to testify about the results of the luminol tests because all the pictures they took for evidence that show the results have been misplaced.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: How does that happen?
16:04
SPEAKER_01: They're just like, we couldn't find him, so we're just gonna have to go on the stand and testify what we saw in the pictures.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Hmm, okay.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Interesting, right?
16:13
SPEAKER_01: So as far as his alibi goes, the prosecution claim that he either got home, did it immediately upon getting home, and was doing the cleanup while he was calling the police, or all four of his friends are co-conspirators.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Right, which is so unlikely.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Come on.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: I think they also could tell that Betsy's time of death was not like 30 minutes before the police got there.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: They also accused Russ of sexually assaulting Betsy before her killing due to the sperm found there.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: And the jury deliberates for just five hours and finds Russ guilty of first-degree murder.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Russ is in total denial, and Joel Schwartz starts to work on his appeal.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: Now, two years later, while working on the appeal, Joel receives a DVD from the prosecutor's office sent anonymously.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: There's no letter, there's nothing, there's just this package that came from the prosecutor's office.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Inside is a DVD containing the missing pictures of the luminol results.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Every time I hear the word DVD, I just laugh because it's just such ancient technology.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: At least it wasn't a VHS.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: All right, yeah.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, continue.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it shows all of those supposedly misplaced missing pictures of the luminol results are all on this DVD.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: And they totally contradict the testimony that was given by the police officers on the stand.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Hello, corruption.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Alright.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: Also around this time, Betsy's daughters are taking Pam Hupp to court because she's refusing to hand over the funds from that life insurance policy that Betsy had left her intended for the girls.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Red flag alert.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, she'd cashed it in, she just wasn't handing it over.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: So they take her to civil court, and during the case, it comes out that the prosecution in Russ's case had told Pam, make sure those funds are in a trust for the girls before the trial starts.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Which she did, but had since dissolved the trust and kept the money for herself.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: So in one interview tape with police, Pam tells them, I was gonna kill anyone for insurance money, it would be my mom because I would get half a million.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: She did not say that.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: She literally said, if I was gonna kill anybody for insurance money, it would be my mom because I would get half a million, not Betsy because I only get 150k.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Who says that?
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Craziness.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Gobsmacked, blabbergasted.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: So Pam literally set up the trust the week before Russ's trial and defunded it the week after.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: As the agreement was to use the money for Betsy's daughters was only a verbal one, there was nothing in writing saying that Pam was only holding it for them.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: They actually lost the court case and Pam got to keep the money.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm speechless.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: So with both of these facts, so the Pam keeping the money and the Luminol pictures surfacing, Russ gets an appeal.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: Thank God.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Do we know who sent that?
19:10
SPEAKER_00: The mysterious DVD package.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Um so Joel Schwartz just thinks that like somebody in the police department saw the corruption and felt they had to do the right thing.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: So Russ is allowed bond while awaiting his new trial, and after spending three and a half years in jail, he's actually free again.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Good.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: The second trial is in November 2015 and it's a bench trial.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: So the judge is the only one deciding Russ's fate, no jury this time.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: That was Russ's decision.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: He was like, I am not putting my hands in the general public anymore because they got it so wrong the first time.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he obviously can't trust those people.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: Now when Pam is brought up as a witness at the new trial, she changes her whole story.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: She claims that her and Betsy were lovers.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: No.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: Which is why she really left her the money, and it wasn't for her daughters at all.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: She was giving it to her because she loved her.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay, even if that were true, which I'm not saying I believe it, but even if it were true, you don't leave your life insurance money to your lover.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Not all of it, when you have children.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't make any sense.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: And what also makes no sense to me is that she and Russ had not had very many sexual relationships recently due to her feeling so weak from the cancer and going through chemo.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Because suddenly she's up for a target affair.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: With a lesbian lover.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: Give me a break.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was definitely out of left field and was like, what now?
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Mm-mm.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: And I hate that she just paints Betsy, poor dead, cancer-ridden Betsy, in a bad light.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Who can't defend herself.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: It's disgusting.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: She says that Russ actually found out about their relationship and was so mad at Betsy about it.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: She's still trying to push Motive over onto Russ.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: It's isn't it funny how she never mentioned this before?
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: During the first time.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: It seems like that would be something pretty important you'd want to bring up.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, the judge finds Russ not guilty.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Good.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: And he is acquitted of all charges.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: And the judge even states the whole murder investigation was done very poorly.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I'm sure he's thinking, okay, somebody testified that there was results from the luminol and the pictures couldn't be found and now they've surfaced.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the judge has got to be like, there's something fishy going on here.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Huge relief for Russ's family.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: But Betsy's family are now like, well, okay, but who did kill Betsy?
21:30
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: But this story is nowhere near over.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: In August 2016, there's another intriguing 911 call.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: This time coming from Pam Hawk, who's telling dispatcher that there's an intruder in her house, and you can hear her talking to somebody.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Then you hear gunshots, and then Pam tells the 911 operator, I just shot an intruder.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Now, when police arrive, Pam tells them she had returned home from running errands, and while she was trying to get out of the car in her driveway, a man jumps.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Into the car, pulled a knife on her, and told her to drive to the bank.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: That is terrifying.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: She says she knocked the knife from his hand and ran back into her house, but he followed her.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: So she went to her bedroom, retrieved her gun, and then came flying at him down the hallway, shooting him five times, unloading the gun completely.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: Holy shit.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: Now, if there's an intruder in my house, I'm running to my bedroom getting my gun, locking the door and calling the police.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm not charging towards him.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Now this victim had no ID on him.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: There was just a note with instructions to, and this is a quote, get Pam Hupp to take him to the bank and get Russ's money and drop it at Mama Faria's house.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: And then it had Pam's address.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: So playing back the 911 call, it sounds like the intruder is saying, Do you want me to do to you what I did to Russ's wife?
22:55
SPEAKER_01: It's very muffled, but that's what it sounds like.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: And you can hear Pam say, No, no, I'm not getting in the car with you.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Which doesn't even answer that question.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: Sounds like a bad B movie.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: So they question Pam at the police station, who tells them, Well, Russ just got out of jail, and he knew that Betsy's daughters lost their case, so he must have been trying to get the money back by force.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: She's basically painting it that Russ hired this guy, this poor guy who's now dead, to get money from her that he felt was owed to him.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: Now the police take Russ's phone for three days, but they find nothing on it indicating he had anything to do with any of this.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: And also got handwriting samples from him and his alibi, and this time they actually believed the alibi.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: And his handwriting did not match.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: They had him do it with left hand, right hand, but it did not match this note.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Now the dead man's name was Lewis Gumpenberger, and the police go to his address, where his mother also lives to inform her of his passing and the circumstances in which it happened.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: However, Lewis's mother says, okay, there's no way Lewis can be responsible for this.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: Due to a car accident he had had years ago, he had mental and physical issues.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: Basically, the mind of a 12-year-old and the physical ability of an 80-year-old.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: And this also made him very gullible and vulnerable.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Now the knife was still in the car.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: The one that Pam said that she'd knocked out of his hand was laying down the side of uh the car seat.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: And police were able to prove that Pam herself had purchased this knife.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: And then they play back the 911 call again, and they definitely note the lack of panic in Pam's voice.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Like you and I would be like, Oh my god, there's an intruder in my house.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: And she was like, No, I'm not getting into the car with you, strange man.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: Go away.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: There's an intruder.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: I just shot him.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Like she's reading some bad script.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: There was also a spare piece of carpet on the floor right under where the body lay.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Like you might put down if you didn't want to get a mess on your carpet.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Then another police precinct called them to tell them about a curious call they had received from a lady named Carol McAfee.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: She had a very weird story.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: She said a strange lady had pulled up to her house, claimed to be the producer Kathy from Dateline, and said they were looking for people to reenact 911 calls.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: But you can't bring anything with you.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: They don't like clutter on the set.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: You've got to leave your ID and your wallet and your purse and your phone and everything here.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: But we're gonna pay you a thousand dollars, Cat.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Red flag alert.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: So at first, Carol gets in the car.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: She's got red flags going off in her head, but she's like, I wanna see what this lady's up to.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: So she gets in the car after sneaking a knife up her sleeve.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: But in the end, her gut instinct told her, This is just not good news and you need to get out.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: So she makes an excuse that she needs to go back home to like, I don't know, let her dog in or something.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: So Pam drives back up the driveway, lets Carol out, and then as Carol goes back into the house, Pam sees security cameras on Carol's house, and she was like, wait a minute, you have security cameras?
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And Carol's like, yeah, they're my home security.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: And Pam jumps in the car and drives off.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: When the police pull up to the house, they get the footage from the security cameras and they identify the driver as Pam Huck.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh-oh.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh-oh.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: Now they're pretty sure it's the same line she used to get Lewis to pretend to break into her home as if role-playing a reenactment of a 911 call.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Now, poor Lewis thought it was an act, but Pam shot him for real.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: And this murder, which is what it was, is caught on 911 tech.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Pam had left the note on Lewis to point all fingers back to Russ, knowing that he had been released and people would start looking at her again for Betsy's murder.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think I mentioned this to you before, but what was super funny was Joel Schwartz got wind of this whole scenario.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: He calls Russ and says, Hey, she's killed another person.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, who?
26:59
SPEAKER_01: She's like, Pam Hupps killed another person.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: And Russ said to Joel, Is she trying to pin this one on me as well?
27:05
SPEAKER_00: Yep, he knew at this point.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: And she was.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: This woman.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: No shame.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Cell phone records also show that Pam had been in front of Lewis's house in his neighborhood less than one hour before the shooting, even though she had told police, I've never seen this person before in my life.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, all of this is very incriminating.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Additionally, they found some cash on Lewis, which supposedly was given to him by Russ paying him to do the job.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: But it had sequential numbers to notes found in Pam's bedroom, indicating that they'd been given to the same person at the same time when withdrawn from the bank.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Now on August 23rd, 2016, Pam Hupp is arrested for the murder of Lewis Gumpenberger.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: Back at the police station during questioning, Pam asked to go to the bath, but she's in there like a really long time, so they send in a police officer to investigate and find Pam had stolen a pen while being interviewed and snuck it into the bathroom and was trying to stab herself in the throat with it.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Like suicide by pen.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: Now remember the comment she made about her mother being worth more dead than Betsy?
28:18
SPEAKER_01: I do remember that vividly.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: Guess what?
28:20
SPEAKER_01: It comes back up.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Two years after Betsy died, Pam's mother died after falling from her third floor balcony at her retirement home.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: Pam had been the last person to see her mother, and as she exited the retirement home, she told the staff that her mother would not be down for dinner that evening.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: No.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: The next day, when her mother also did not come down for breakfast or lunch, the staff in the nursing home go and investigate and they find her dead.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: She had fallen from that third floor balcony.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: So an autopsy shows that she had eight times the legal amount of ambient in her system.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: Also, the balcony which had metal ratings, two of the railings had been kicked out.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: And certainly not by Pam's mom who used a walker.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: So her death is recorded as suspicious.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: Very and undetermined.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: But even that worries me.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, why wasn't that investigated further?
29:16
SPEAKER_01: That's more than suspicious.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: And of course the money was just handed over to Pam.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, she's dead.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: Here's the insurance.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: So to avoid the death penalty, Pam ends up taking an Alfred plea for the murder of Lewis and is sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: In 2018, Pam is also charged with the murder of Betsy Faria.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: However, due to many issues such as calls for change of venue, the judge not willing to accept another Alfred plea, Pam refusing to plead guilty, the trial is actually yet to take place and it's currently scheduled for 2028.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: So we're a couple years off even now.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: This is dragged out that long, which is crazy.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: Now in October 2019, Lewis Gumpenberger's mother filed a lawsuit for wrongful death, fraud, and misinterpretation against Pam Hupp.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: And she was awarded a judgment of three million dollars.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: And her attorney files to garnish Pam Hupp's prison trust account.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: Good.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: Now any money that her family put on her account for commissary is taken, and also any money she earns while walking in prison is taken.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Now that's only like 50 bucks a week.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: It's never gonna be three million, and it's never gonna make up for Lewis's mother's loss.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: But what I love about it is it makes her life in prison harder.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: It makes her suffer, which she deserves.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: In September 2020, Pam's husband Mark files for divorce, and also in September 2020, Pam files a motion to vacate her conviction, claiming she was pressured into the plea, but it was denied.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Good.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Rosferia has moved on and managed to find love again with none other than Carol McAfee.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: That first lady that Pam tried to hire under false pretenses as a dateline producer who nearly became a murder victim.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy and it's cute all at the same time.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: It is.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy that it brought them together, but like good, because obviously they both needed somebody.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: They both needed somebody, and they both probably would have had a hard time.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, especially Russ.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: It would have been hard for him just to date, period, and explain to people what had happened to him, but Carol was already part of the whole story.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure some people still thought Russ did it.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: Because nobody else has been convicted of the murder yet.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean Pam's been charged, but there's been no court case.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't look good on your dating profile, does it?
31:43
SPEAKER_00: It looks very bad.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: Now, unfortunately, he no longer has a relationship with Betsy's daughters.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: It's not that they think he did it or anything.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: It's just too much water under the bridge, unfortunately.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: And I hate that for him because he raised them as his own.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Sad for both parties.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: And he was also awarded two million dollars after filing a lawsuit for the wrongful conviction.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Good.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure that he actually did get that money because it came from the local government there.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: So that is the end of our story.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: What else can we discuss about this?
32:19
SPEAKER_00: I think that Pam Hop is just, I mean, horrible.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Horrible, horrible.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: She took advantage of the most vulnerable people.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: You've got a literal cancer patient, and then you've got that man that was both physically and mentally disabled.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: And her mother, who was in a nursing home that used a walker.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: And that just makes me sick.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: She just saw people as paychecks.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: As paychecks.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Money was more important to her than any of these people.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And how blatant she is.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: If I wanted to kill somebody for life insurance money, I'd just kill my mom.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: There's half a meal right there.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: She said that to a literal cop.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: That probably was the thought in her head.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: She's like, wait a minute, I should do that.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Right?
33:04
SPEAKER_00: I wonder if she went into the life insurance business because this was like her plan.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: She was building up to it the whole time.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: Or if going into that business is what gave her the idea.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: I think maybe going into that business was what gave her the idea.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: She probably had to approve payouts for millions of dollars to people and she was like, I want some of that cat.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: She's like, oh, literally all somebody has to do is die and they cut me a check for half a mil?
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Sign me up.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you're probably right.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: She's a nutcase.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: She's absolutely insane.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: And the fact that she tried to kill herself after she was caught is crazy.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, do you think she was really trying to kill herself?
33:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know if it was a cry for attention, if she thought maybe they would take her to a hospital instead of a jail cell.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Do you think she really thought that she could kill herself with a pen?
33:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, she knows how to kill people.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: She's a pro.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh maybe some part of her thought, okay, the jig is up.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, they've caught me.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to live in prison.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: That life is gonna suck.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: So maybe she was genuinely trying.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: It strikes me as she loves herself a little too much to want to die.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: And she thinks she's untouchable and probably didn't believe she was going to prison.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: Like she's already trying to get it thrown out.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: I think it was a cry for attention.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: A guilt trip.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I have issues.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to commit suicide.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: Don't send me to jail.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's either trying to go to hospital instead of jail or she's trying to plead insanity or something.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't think there's a lot more to say about Pam other than I wish Russ all the happiness going forward.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad that he found Carol.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, her daughters have gone on to do well.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: One of them has a child of her own now.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: So sad that Betsy's not alive to meet her grandchild and make memories with her grandchild, which I mean she did have terminal cancer, but still, like it's just horrible.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: One of the things I just can't get over is that the first couple of stabs killed her.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: So now we know that this was her friend, friend in quotation mark.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: So this was another woman, and this woman is evil enough not only to kill her friend that has cancer just for money, but to continuously stab her 55 times after she's already dead.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Like this woman is sick.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: What sparked that?
35:23
SPEAKER_00: If it really was just rage, or if she was like, Oh, I gotta make sure she's dead because I want this payout.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a little bit of I gotta make sure she's dead, and a little bit of I've gotta make this look like Russ.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh wasn't trying to frame it as a burgle to get the money.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: She was trying to frame it as Russ, but she didn't like him.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: She said that.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she didn't like him.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's the reason she took it that far was to make it look like a crime of passion from a real lover, her husband.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Horrible either way.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: All right, y'all.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: We hope that you enjoyed the twists and turns of this case.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Pam Hupp is definitely one of the craziest cases we have covered.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: We will see you guys next week with the yogurt shot murders.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's gonna be our last episode until our October Spooktacular.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: So be sure to tune in for that as well.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: And until next time, B Divas, not deadly.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Bye.