Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #020-"Trooper James Scott Burns"

Transcript

#020-"Trooper James Scott Burns" · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

0:01
SPEAKER_04: The citizen, he keyed up and he said, officers down, uh officer's deceased.
0:09
SPEAKER_02: And he said, I just need to talk to you face to face.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: I just threw the phone down and life was good.
0:17
SPEAKER_02: It really was.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: We had a a lab and a new baby, and welcome back, Blue Grit family, watchers, listeners, boyers.
0:33
SPEAKER_04: Man, uh, you know, the last couple of episodes, this is uh what f of the four that I have been on, Clint McNear has been absent for three of them.
0:48
SPEAKER_05: Well, you know, you may have a replacement sitting over here for Clint.
0:53
SPEAKER_04: I might.
0:53
SPEAKER_04: I've got a co-host today, a good friend of mine and a field rep with TMPA, Tony Reich.
0:58
SPEAKER_04: Tony, welcome to the Blue Grit Podcast.
1:02
SPEAKER_05: You know, I've been trying to get on this thing for a while.
1:04
SPEAKER_05: So I guess so I guess it I guess it all worked out for me this time, though.
1:08
SPEAKER_05: This happened to be in Austin.
1:09
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
1:09
SPEAKER_05: Whenever Clint double booked himself.
1:12
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
1:12
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
1:12
SPEAKER_04: Man, welcome, welcome to the show.
1:14
SPEAKER_04: Uh, you're gonna co-host with me today.
1:16
SPEAKER_04: Actually, you're gonna you're gonna interview me and uh and a close friend of mine, uh, who I consider a close friend.
1:22
SPEAKER_04: And we've been through uh a really interesting story that we're gonna share uh with the world today, Michaela Burns.
1:29
SPEAKER_04: Hi, welcome on.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
1:31
SPEAKER_04: Uh meeting you, Michaela.
1:32
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
1:33
SPEAKER_04: So we've got an interesting show today.
1:35
SPEAKER_04: But before we dive into this, you guys subscribe to the channel uh and again download these these uh episodes.
1:40
SPEAKER_04: With that's how we kind of judge the analytics.
1:43
SPEAKER_04: Uh for you that uh for y'all that don't know, you really don't you can't judge a podcast channel by the listeners.
1:50
SPEAKER_04: You have to download or you have to judge them by the amount of downloads.
1:54
SPEAKER_04: So it's really, really, really important, you know, for you guys that don't uh download the episodes.
2:00
SPEAKER_04: It's it helps us out by by downloading these.
2:02
SPEAKER_04: So if you would go ahead and click that auto download on whatever platforms you guys uh you guys listen to.
2:09
SPEAKER_04: So I gotta admit something, Tony.
2:11
SPEAKER_04: Um Michaela, this is her second time on the show, but this is probably her first time to debut for the people that are gonna listen or see her.
2:21
SPEAKER_04: She came down a couple weeks ago.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: I did.
2:23
SPEAKER_04: And uh we had a technical error on a power outage here at the office.
2:29
SPEAKER_04: And what I did not realize is that the power outage sent our soundboard into a stock mode setting.
2:37
SPEAKER_04: So I drove back to East Texas extremely excited about the quality of episode that we had recorded together.
2:45
SPEAKER_04: Uh, that was when Clint did make it on that episode.
2:49
SPEAKER_04: So I get home and I'm doing this magical like episode.
2:54
SPEAKER_04: I sit down, had a nice cup of coffee.
2:57
SPEAKER_04: Janet, my wife, had actually made breakfast.
2:59
SPEAKER_04: Uh it was a magical morning.
3:01
SPEAKER_04: Like Janet actually woke up before seven o'clock and the birds were chirping.
3:05
SPEAKER_04: And I sit down and uh there's no audio.
3:10
SPEAKER_04: Like none.
3:11
SPEAKER_04: And I freaked out.
3:13
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I almost threw up.
3:14
SPEAKER_04: And so anyway.
3:15
SPEAKER_05: Well, yeah, you did tell me that.
3:16
SPEAKER_05: You said you were very sick.
3:18
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
3:19
SPEAKER_04: And so there was kind of a moment where I was like, Well, I've got to let Michaela know because I'm sure she's gonna be anticipating this magical episode from Tyler Owen and Blue Grit Podcast.
3:28
SPEAKER_04: And so, but you took it like a champ, you took it on the chin, and and her response was, Well, hey, brush it off.
3:34
SPEAKER_04: It's not a big deal.
3:35
SPEAKER_04: I can come back to Austin.
3:36
SPEAKER_04: Do you just let me know and I'll be there?
3:38
SPEAKER_04: So I appreciate it.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
3:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
3:41
SPEAKER_04: So of course, anyway, awesome.
3:43
SPEAKER_04: Before we dive into our story, uh, Tony, tell us a bit, you know, tell us about you and and who you are and who you represent and what you do for TMPA, and and uh, you know, tell us about you.
3:53
SPEAKER_05: All right, well, um, you know, you're from a small town in East, well, you're from Dallas, but you live in a small town in East Texas, and I'm from a small town in North Texas, Farmersville, Texas, is where I was born and raised.
4:04
SPEAKER_05: Uh my family got there to Collin County in about 1850.
4:07
SPEAKER_05: So we've been there, we've been there since the beginning.
4:09
SPEAKER_05: I always knew growing up either one be a policeman or a farmer.
4:14
SPEAKER_05: Probably should have gone the farming route, but yeah.
4:17
SPEAKER_05: Here I am.
4:17
SPEAKER_05: I started 1989 at the at the Collin County Sheriff's Office, so I'm still still live in Collin County from Collin County.
4:24
SPEAKER_05: That's where I started my career.
4:26
SPEAKER_05: Worked for Allen PD for a while, left, went to Frisco, and that's where I retired from.
4:31
SPEAKER_05: Uh after I retired from Frisco, I was lucky enough because Clint had an event in Plano, showed up at that, and next thing you know, I was started working for TMPA, and that was eight years ago.
4:44
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
4:45
SPEAKER_05: What do you enjoy most about working for TMPA?
4:48
SPEAKER_05: Uh, you know, I tell everybody, everybody asks me what I do, and uh as a field rep, and there's you know several of us throughout the state, there's not many, you can't you can't really put a label on what we do.
4:59
SPEAKER_05: It really is a lifestyle, and you have to be passionate about taking care of other law enforcement officers and their families.
5:07
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so it truly is a passion.
5:08
SPEAKER_05: So I uh you know that's what I enjoy most about is just going out and and just making a difference in a working officer's day-to-day, whether it be a legal question or a critical incident, or heaven forbid their house burns down.
5:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
5:21
SPEAKER_04: And what and that and what I think is so interesting is that yeah, I do live in East Texas, but you know, the culture of of North Texas and the culture of East Texas, it it really is so much different.
5:32
SPEAKER_04: And and like in J like with JP Rodriguez down in down in uh you know Westlico and in the valley, and you know, you got Layton Ganary down in and uh you know the the Golden Triangle, Robbie Campbell.
5:42
SPEAKER_04: What makes us, I think, so unique and so awesome of all field services within TMPA is that each individual person, each field rep, uh number one, we're all unique and we're all a lot of fun and we're all crazy as hell, quite honestly.
5:57
SPEAKER_04: But man, when we are when we unite, we make one hell of a team because you've got strengths that I don't have.
6:04
SPEAKER_04: I've got some strengths that maybe you don't have, but when we unify together and we all unite, it's it's it's something magical happens.
6:11
SPEAKER_05: I completely agree with that.
6:13
SPEAKER_05: I mean, we uh you know if you don't if you don't know who your TMPA field rep is, look on the website or you know, call the E100 number and we'll the rep will call you.
6:21
SPEAKER_05: But we're truly passionate about taking care of law enforcement.
6:24
SPEAKER_05: And I think that passion translates into the service that we provide.
6:28
SPEAKER_05: And I think that's what sets us apart from really everybody else in the country.
6:32
SPEAKER_04: I agree.
6:33
SPEAKER_05: I agree 110%.
6:34
SPEAKER_04: 110%.
6:35
SPEAKER_04: There's certain events that we all together, uh, I guess there's probably two or three.
6:39
SPEAKER_04: Uh one of them is coming up uh here in a couple weeks, uh, one being the Peace Office Memorial.
6:45
SPEAKER_04: Uh and so if you if you've never been to that before here in Texas, it's here in Austin.
6:50
SPEAKER_04: Uh, and we're gonna we're gonna touch, you know, touch on that.
6:52
SPEAKER_04: That's where she and I kind of re-re connected.
6:55
SPEAKER_04: Um but anyway.
6:57
SPEAKER_05: You know, there's what 75,000, 80,000 officers in Texas, and you come across and you start talking, you know, to guys who are who are working or even retired officers, and there's a lot of them that have never been to the memorial.
7:09
SPEAKER_05: And uh I think it's important that us that that we as a profession don't forget the guys who came before us who were on that wall.
7:19
SPEAKER_05: And I think it's important that everybody go by when they're in Austin and and quite honestly just pay their respects.
7:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I agree.
7:26
SPEAKER_04: I agree.
7:26
SPEAKER_04: Speaking of the wall, uh, and really another reason why we're here, uh Michaela, you want to uh kind of give an intro of yourself and uh where you grew up at and you know how you got introduced to the organizations that you represent and and are a part of today?
7:42
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: Um my name is Michaela, like you said.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Um I am from a little bitty town in uh northeast Texas, called Atlanta, Texas.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: Hole in the wall.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: Hole in the wall.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: In Chaos County.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: In Chaos County, yes.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: Um born and raised there, graduated from high school in '97.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: Um went to school at Stephen F.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Austin, lived in Houston for a little while, moved back to Atlanta, Texas, because wasn't quite ready for Houston.
8:14
SPEAKER_02: No, it's a little bit.
8:15
SPEAKER_05: Well, Atlanta to Houston.
8:17
SPEAKER_05: You know, when I when I first heard of Atlanta, I had a friend of mine I told you that was from Atlanta.
8:21
SPEAKER_05: And uh I'm like, You're from Georgia?
8:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
8:23
SPEAKER_05: And he's like, No, there's one in East Texas, too.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's small.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I moved back and I uh I started working at the district attorney's office, and uh that's where I met my husband, Scott.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: He was a state trooper.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: He came in one day.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: Um uh not gonna lie, I kind of thought he was weird because he was really shy.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: I said hi to him and he didn't kind of said hi, but not really.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: Which, you know, I'm not shy at all.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: No, yeah, not at all.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: And so um when he was leaving, you know, I said bye to him and he just kind of said bye really fast and scurried off and ran right into the door and his hat came up.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: It was actually kind of comical.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I just remember thinking that he was kind of weird, you know.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: But uh he ended up calling me a couple of days later and asking me out on a date.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: So we we went out.
9:11
SPEAKER_05: And when was that?
9:12
SPEAKER_02: That was December of 2005.
9:19
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: December 2005.
9:21
SPEAKER_05: I actually used to work with my wife.
9:22
SPEAKER_05: My wife is also retired officer Tara, and uh she used to always say I was the you know, we used to see each other work, and she said I was the the youngest, oldest looking guy she ever saw.
9:34
SPEAKER_05: Because back in the time, you know, it was it was back in the 90s and things were a little different than they were now, but yeah, she always gives me a hard time about that too.
9:41
SPEAKER_05: There was a little weirdness there, I think.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, Scott was 10 years older than me.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, I was 26, he was 36, so a little bit of an age gap, but I you know, I thought he was handsome and he seemed nice.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: He just seemed kind of I mean, he ran into the door.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: So what am I supposed to think about?
9:58
SPEAKER_05: Well, there's a little age gap between my wife and myself too, and I'm not gonna tell you which way it goes.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Hmm, let me guess.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that's that's how Scott and I met, ended up getting married not too long after that, and uh had a baby, all within a few months.
10:18
SPEAKER_05: That's a lot.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we met, yeah, we met in December, January, uh, got engaged in April of that same year, got married in September, uh, got pregnant in March, had her in November, and then everything happened that April.
10:37
SPEAKER_05: Well, that's that's kind of why we're here today.
10:39
SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, I know there was an incident, and first of all, you said you came where you met, you were in Atlanta.
10:45
SPEAKER_05: Did y'all did y'all stay in Atlanta the whole time?
10:47
SPEAKER_05: Did y'all move?
10:48
SPEAKER_02: No, well, the Cass County District Attorney's office was in Linden, which is where I was working, and uh he had a home in Linden, which is right by Atlanta.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: It's only like 10 miles maybe.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: So we uh when we got married, I moved, he had just built a house and uh I moved in with him.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: Um so we were just living in Linden.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, life was good, it really was.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: We had a a lab and a new baby, and it was it it really couldn't have gotten any better at that point, you know.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: It was it was a good life.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Very good life.
11:21
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
11:22
SPEAKER_05: And so married, husband, you'll stay there.
11:26
SPEAKER_05: So how and I know Tyler and I talked earlier that um uh so how did y'all connect as far as if he was up in Atlanta or you were you close?
11:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so uh 2000, so I you know, for the listeners that that know me or that don't know me, I I grew up in Irving, uh began my career at the Dallas County Sheriff's Office.
11:49
SPEAKER_04: Um starting your career at that point in time, that was when law enforcement really, you know, you'd show up for a test in Irving, Plano, Frisco, there'd be 500 officers.
11:58
SPEAKER_04: And so uh during this point in time, uh I I had just graduated the police academy.
12:04
SPEAKER_04: My my wife my then girlfriend, uh her father had called and said, Hey, we're moving to East Texas.
12:09
SPEAKER_04: Make me a promise that you're gonna move out here within you know two years with my daughter, uh, and I'll I I'll let you marry her.
12:16
SPEAKER_04: So, of course, you know I said yes, and I moved to East Texas and uh I went to work at Jefferson PD.
12:24
SPEAKER_04: So I was 22 years old, 20, 21, uh 21 years old.
12:28
SPEAKER_04: And uh I'm not gonna say that there wasn't some training, but it was pretty much threw me the keys and said go go forth and conquer.
12:38
SPEAKER_04: And I'm what I'm fixing to say is not any is not a a it being disrespectful to any state trooper whatsoever.
12:48
SPEAKER_04: But but please for the state troopers that that do listen to this podcast, understand that that uh when I was 21 years old, uh the perception, in my opinion, was that you guys were like iconic.
13:01
SPEAKER_04: I mean, you guys were intimidating, you guys had a very established, uh, very reputable, it was a huge agency, and it was something it was an agency that I that I wanted to be a part of.
13:12
SPEAKER_04: It was a very respected, uniformed military type organization, just as such as like Dallas Police Department, Dallas County Sheriff's Office, like that's something that I wanted to be.
13:23
SPEAKER_04: And to follow through with that, Scott saw her husband, he was so approachable.
13:31
SPEAKER_04: And and and at that point in time, a lot of cops they weren't.
13:35
SPEAKER_05: Uh well, especially when you're the young 21, 22-year-old, you know, and you know, you don't have that person that's gonna take you under the wing, especially in a in a small town like Jefferson, where you're working.
13:44
SPEAKER_04: And think about this, he didn't even work for my agency.
13:47
SPEAKER_04: This was a six, seven-man department.
13:49
SPEAKER_04: And so Scott literally would would show up to work, him and another guy named Mike Horn.
13:54
SPEAKER_04: Uh they would show up to work and work with me and get in the same car with me.
13:58
SPEAKER_04: I mean, so I want I want you to think about that.
14:01
SPEAKER_04: The man would get in the same car with me or have me ride with him, and we would do traffic stops.
14:06
SPEAKER_04: He he would essentially be my FTO without asking for FTO pay, without doing any of the FTO paperwork, probably violating violating DPS policy.
14:16
SPEAKER_04: DPS would shit if they knew that he was doing that, probably.
14:20
SPEAKER_04: You know, probably.
14:21
SPEAKER_04: But he did it because he wanted me to be better and he wanted me to be safe.
14:25
SPEAKER_04: That's why he did it.
14:27
SPEAKER_04: And so I just man, he mentored the hell out of me.
14:31
SPEAKER_04: And and and I and to this day, my corn, whenever I do see him, I I I hug the hell out of him.
14:36
SPEAKER_04: And it just, I've got so much respect for those guys.
14:39
SPEAKER_04: And when I say that we were a family, and and that's honestly, and what was so hurt hurtful about the whole situation was that Mill, me and my wife were not from the area, and so if you if you put this in context or think about it, uh I knew that Scott was was on maternity leave because Michaela was, you know, she just had the baby, and so Scott was out for several months.
15:02
SPEAKER_04: And the week prior to this incident, uh, we had all hung out.
15:06
SPEAKER_04: And I mean the entire Marion County Sheriff's Office, again, and a 15-12 man agency, every single state trooper that was assigned to Marion County, which is uh three, two game wardens, and there was five City of Jefferson police officers.
15:24
SPEAKER_04: So the entire law enforcement of that county all hung out together at a party.
15:30
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
15:31
SPEAKER_04: So it was the first time that my wife and Michaela got to hang out and meet each other, which we were very close in age, which we didn't have any friends in Jefferson because we were the outsiders.
15:42
SPEAKER_04: And and let's face it, some cops' wives can be different to other cops' wives.
15:47
SPEAKER_04: And so my wife really was like, Man, hey, I've actually got to hang out with another cop's wife that's my age, and we've got a lot, we've got a lot in common, you know.
15:56
SPEAKER_04: And and so this was uh the f the first week, and so they I think they exchanged numbers, they plan on maybe going out, you know, the the following week, and and and it was just a really good weekend.
16:08
SPEAKER_04: And so the next the following weekend, um me and me and Janet went out to for our anniversary, and me and Scott talked and bullshit back and forth, and you know, their their baby was three months old, and and again, you know, he was continuing to kind of talk up with me, and I I've been on for about a year now, but this was all prior to him mentoring me.
16:28
SPEAKER_04: So the day of the incident was a Sunday afternoon.
16:32
SPEAKER_04: Um I worked to 7p to 7A.
16:35
SPEAKER_04: I checked on around six o'clock.
16:37
SPEAKER_04: Uh wasn't much going on.
16:39
SPEAKER_04: Um I checked on early.
16:42
SPEAKER_04: I saw Scott briefly.
16:43
SPEAKER_04: He said, Hey, I'm gonna physically run some traffic up by the lake.
16:46
SPEAKER_04: Where Marion County sits is about 50 miles south of Tex Ricana, and we are approximately 20 miles west of the Louisiana state line, and we are 20 miles north of Marshall, Texas, for the for the listeners that understand this.
17:03
SPEAKER_04: It sits between Lake of the Pines and Caddo Lake, Texas.
17:07
SPEAKER_04: Lake of the Pines, this like this, and I don't know why this is, maybe you can answer this.
17:11
SPEAKER_04: I don't know why, but a lot of lakes in Texas, for whatever reason, seems to drag up a lot of methamphetamine users and dope users and crime, and I don't know why, but it seems to just attract shitbirds, you know.
17:23
SPEAKER_04: That is very true.
17:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I don't know why that is.
17:26
SPEAKER_05: When I grew up, we have Lake Levon, and you have well, depending on how you pronounce it, Kaleokie around Princeton, Texas.
17:33
SPEAKER_05: That you know, there was always a lot of stuff going on out there.
17:36
SPEAKER_04: So uh so Scott said, hey, I'm fixing to run some traffic up by the lake, and I'll uh I'll I'll meet you back in town and we'll get some we'll we'll go get some dinner.
17:45
SPEAKER_04: I said, Oh, okay, yeah, sounds good.
17:47
SPEAKER_04: So around 7 15, well about 7 30, uh he he had made one traffic stop.
17:54
SPEAKER_04: I knew where he was at.
17:55
SPEAKER_04: And and for the for to put stuff in context, we had one sheriff's office radio, you know, channel.
18:01
SPEAKER_04: So on the channel, it was DPS, game wardens, the the police department, and then the sheriff's office.
18:09
SPEAKER_04: So he cleared that traffic stop.
18:10
SPEAKER_04: And and why I I've never really asked this, and I maybe I can ask Mike Horn.
18:14
SPEAKER_04: Scott or Mike never ever carried a portable radio.
18:19
SPEAKER_04: He would uh, and and for the guys that have been on the street a long time, DPS had a system or a way they set their radios up that you could set it on a PA setum or setting to where when they were out of the vehicle they could listen.
18:32
SPEAKER_04: Uh the radio transmission would be put on their PA system on the front of their speaker.
18:36
SPEAKER_04: That's how Scott liked to do it.
18:37
SPEAKER_04: That's how maybe the guy that trained him did it.
18:39
SPEAKER_04: That's just kind of the only way you would ever see Scott wear a portable radio were on special events or when he got transferred to like a task force.
18:47
SPEAKER_04: Well, if he got transferred, that's the only time that I ever saw him wear a portable.
18:50
SPEAKER_04: And you may not, you may have never heard that before.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, I don't know.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know if I remember if he, I mean, obviously he didn't.
18:59
SPEAKER_05: Well, that's some of the differences right there, just between you know, a rural county out in East Texas where everybody's running off of one dispatch as opposed to where I am in the Metroplex, where you have multiple channels at the same PD, you know, for different sectors or you know, different zones.
19:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so so he would never carry a portable, and it wasn't it just that that was just the way he operated, is that he would always go back to the vehicle.
19:19
SPEAKER_04: And that's how he was my point being is that if he ever got in a foot chase, it was not uncommon for him for not to have radio traffic with him.
19:28
SPEAKER_04: So he began to call out that he was in a vehicle pursuit.
19:32
SPEAKER_04: And so I start to kind of head that way, um, as as did some other county deputies.
19:38
SPEAKER_05: Are you working for the Jefferson PD, right, at this point?
19:41
SPEAKER_04: Yep, Jefferson PD.
19:42
SPEAKER_04: And uh, you know, he's heading, he's heading back into town, he's headed south.
19:46
SPEAKER_04: And so uh he said he's fixing the bell, he's you know, he's he's fixing the bell, which tells us that he's fixing to be, you know, on on on foot.
19:54
SPEAKER_04: And as I'm driving to him, I just had this weird sick feeling.
19:58
SPEAKER_04: Uh something's not right, because there was a time frame that didn't it something was off minutes, you know.
20:06
SPEAKER_04: And for those that have ever driven a crown big, I'm not sure how fast that thing went.
20:10
SPEAKER_04: Um but it went from fast to super fast.
20:15
SPEAKER_04: And I just had this sick feeling that something was not right with my friend, you know.
20:20
SPEAKER_04: And um as I was driving, the uh a citizen happened to see what was going on, and I'll never forget this, he keyed up and he said, uh officers down, uh officers deceased.
20:37
SPEAKER_05: So the citizen got on the radio in the car at this point and calls that out, and of course everybody's trying to get to the scene, so I can imagine what happened when that came over the radio.
20:48
SPEAKER_04: So uh so I showed up and um Scott was in he was in bad shape.
20:54
SPEAKER_04: And uh the suspect had already fled, you know, the scene.
20:58
SPEAKER_04: And it it was it was obvious to me that you know he he was already he was already gone.
21:04
SPEAKER_04: Um so I immediately began giving suspect information updates.
21:09
SPEAKER_05: Well, how did you how did you have the suspect?
21:11
SPEAKER_04: Was it just from the radio traffic initially of the radio traffic, uh, and then I began asking the witness that was there, hey, you know, what what was he driving?
21:19
SPEAKER_04: And so I began to radio that in of what direction which way was going because the the FN road we were on was only one way to go.
21:26
SPEAKER_04: And so the responding deputy was coming in off off that off that way.
21:31
SPEAKER_04: And so uh but I immediately began thinking, you know, she's got a three-month-old at the house, and how is this you know, this is a small town, and she can kind of expand upon this later on.
21:45
SPEAKER_04: My biggest fear was what happened, like you know, um, and and she'll talk about that later on.
21:52
SPEAKER_04: But I secured the crime scene, I I I began to notify, you know, the the the DPS sergeant, but the b the dip most difficult.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: Thing I had to do was to put things in context, the two state troopers that were there was three stationed in Marion County, Scott Burns, Mike Horn, and another guy named James Jordan.
22:10
SPEAKER_04: Mike Horn and Scott Burns were best friends grade school up, if I'm not mistaken.
22:16
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
22:17
SPEAKER_04: Both went through the TDC together.
22:20
SPEAKER_04: I believe Mike was a lieutenant.
22:23
SPEAKER_04: Scott was a captain.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: I think Scott was a sergeant with uh TDCJ.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: I could be wrong though.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: That was before me.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: I just remember he has a plaque that says sergeant.
22:36
SPEAKER_04: Uh Mike had talked Scott into joining, both work for the prison system, and Mike talked Scott into coming up joining DPS.
22:45
SPEAKER_04: And so to make that call to his best friend to say, hey, I'm standing here with him, and I need you to let his wife know before it gets to her, you know, it's just a really, really, really bad situation.
23:01
SPEAKER_04: Uh it is horrible.
23:02
SPEAKER_05: And does this is so this is is it I don't know what is it April?
23:05
SPEAKER_05: April 29th.
23:07
SPEAKER_05: And uh dark outside, I'm assuming.
23:10
SPEAKER_04: No, it was uh Dusk.
23:12
SPEAKER_04: It was still dusk, you know.
23:14
SPEAKER_04: So now we've got a you know we've got a combat a main hunt, you know, at this point.
23:17
SPEAKER_04: Uh and I mean when it it it it you know it flooded police at that point.
23:23
SPEAKER_04: So uh suspect information was given out really quickly.
23:29
SPEAKER_04: DPS was able to get the uh they weren't able to get the camera footage because of the extent quickly.
23:37
SPEAKER_04: It it took a little bit because of the gunfire that took place.
23:41
SPEAKER_04: Uh he was able to shoot some of the video camera footage.
23:45
SPEAKER_04: But within, I think, maybe three or four hours, they were able to get a bolo out for him, a be on the lookout, and a suspect identified and warrants cut.
23:53
SPEAKER_05: So obviously you've just gone to the worst possible scene that you can imagine going to rolling up, and you know, you're in this pursuit.
24:01
SPEAKER_05: Your friend is is obviously injured.
24:03
SPEAKER_05: So you make that decision to call his best friend.
24:06
SPEAKER_05: And then Michaela, how did you what I mean, were you at the house?
24:10
SPEAKER_05: I'm a gu I'm assuming everything normal that day and it was normal.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: It it had been normal.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: Um normal day like any other.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: I worked my eight to five.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: Actually, Scott and I had lunch earlier that day, uh, because he was working two to eleven.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: So uh he stopped by to get me and we went and we ate and uh you know, got off work at five like I always do, ran into Atlanta to run some errands, and uh my mom would keep my daughter.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: She babysat for me.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: So I went to my parents' house and I was watching uh she would usually make dinner and I would eat.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: And when Scott worked late, I would kind of take my time going home, you know, just because he wasn't gonna be at home.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I was just sitting there and uh just got through watching American Idol.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: Actually, he had called me earlier too.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: I talked to him um about seven, he called and uh just said that he had pulled someone over earlier and whatnot.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, you know, asked me what I was doing.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: I told him I was watching American Idol, and he said we'll have fun with that because he hated it.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: So I told him that, you know, I was it was gonna be finishing up soon, and I'd see him when he got home and I loved him.
25:17
SPEAKER_02: Told me he loved me too, and you know, it was the last time I talked to him.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, it's weird because like looking back on things, how my family was acting was well, so basically it was about eight o'clock, and obviously American Idol had ended.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: So I was putting, you know, getting my daughter ready to, you know, for us to leave.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: I was putting her diaper bag in the car and uh my brother called and um I answered and I said hello.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: And you know, he just kind of sat there for a second and he was like, Hey, so hey, you know, he's like, Is mom there?
25:53
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Yeah, she's here.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: And he goes, Can I talk to her?
25:55
SPEAKER_02: And I said, sure.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: And I just handed the phone to her, you know, like I said, now looking back, I, you know, he had a weird tone in his voice.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I just went outside and kept doing what I was doing.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: And my mom came out there and she sat down and you know, she said, uh, Kayla, did you just talk to Scott?
26:11
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Yeah, you know, I just talked to him.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: And she said, Well, um, try to call him, you know.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: So I called him because I thought that he called.
26:19
SPEAKER_02: And usually when I would call him, if he was on a traffic stop, he would call me right back.
26:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, so I called and he didn't answer.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: So I left him a voicemail and then I handed the phone back to my mom and I said, you know, here, here's, you know, he he didn't answer.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: I just kept going about my business, and you know, I can see her now just kind of just sitting in this rocking chair outside, and you know, she just didn't look right.
26:40
SPEAKER_02: But of course, at the time I couldn't see that, you know, she just said, Well, you know, can you just can you just try to call him again?
26:46
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, you know, did he call or something?
26:49
SPEAKER_02: And she said, Well, I don't know, just call him.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: So I called him again and he didn't answer.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: So I said, Mom, he's not answered.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: He'll call me back in a minute, you know, and she said, Okay.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: And I said, What what is going on?
27:00
SPEAKER_02: And she said, Well, I don't know, but uh, you know, he could have been in some kind of accident.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: So of course I'm like, accident, you know, what where is he at a hospital, you know, because I'm thinking car accidents.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, um, but what had happened, you know, apparently the situation was my my brother that called my brother Mike, his uh his in-laws were at a at a baseball game in Atlanta.
27:23
SPEAKER_02: And this is small town, small town for you.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, small town.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: And the sheriff happened to be there with his radio blasting.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, it came over the radio that, you know, state trooper or a cop.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm not I'm not exactly sure how it came over the radio, but basically that he was dead.
27:42
SPEAKER_05: So what you're telling me is is your your brother was at a baseball game?
27:46
SPEAKER_02: My brother's in-laws read a baseball game.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: My brother wasn't even there, he was at home.
27:50
SPEAKER_05: So the in-laws just overhear this on the radio.
27:53
SPEAKER_05: Freak out, and then word trickle back.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: They call my they call my brother, or you know, they call my sister-in-law their daughter, and they're crying because they hear that Scott was dead.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: And my brother, you know, so my sister-in-law's freaking out crying.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: He's like, just calm down, calm down.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, Kayla hasn't even called, no one's called us, you know.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: It's probably just you know, a mistake.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: So when he called, it threw him off a little that I answered because but it kind of made him feel better.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, because I answered.
28:23
SPEAKER_04: Um but uh to this to this day, and you be you may not know this, and this is so there's two there's two things that that are you know, as cops, and and you with the organization, and we'll talk about this in a minute of like flashbacks, yeah.
28:39
SPEAKER_04: But when when you were calling, um that's one thing because if I'm if I'm if I remember correctly, he had a flip phone, if I remember correctly.
28:48
SPEAKER_04: And that and I remember the phone going off and me standing there looking.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: Oh really?
28:54
SPEAKER_02: I called a lot.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Once I found out that he like had been in an uh accident, yeah, um, I kept calling.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: And I kept calling.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: And I kept calling.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I called several times, you know, because then I was like freaking out, you know, maximum freak out level at that point.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: Just panic.
29:11
SPEAKER_05: Well, yeah, because you're hearing something that you don't nobody's really telling you what's going on.
29:15
SPEAKER_05: You don't know.
29:15
SPEAKER_05: You're kind of hearing all this third party.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: And no one ever said he was dead.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: They said accident.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: So you know, I'm thinking he's in a car accident, you know.
29:25
SPEAKER_04: For the listeners to understand, the family of Scott, the town, they the I mean, this is the stereotypical hometown boy.
29:37
SPEAKER_04: The family had a feed store.
29:39
SPEAKER_04: I mean, this is your rural stereotyped East Texas family.
29:45
SPEAKER_04: I mean, loved the entire town loved the Barne family.
29:50
SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's so when when word got out, Marion County is where he was stationed at, which is just south of Linden, we asked for assistance from Cass County, which is his hometown, his home county, and then word really began to get out quickly.
30:08
SPEAKER_04: And so that's another way or how word began to travel.
30:15
SPEAKER_05: So at this point, so you're finding out third party.
30:19
SPEAKER_05: You've called his best friend, who's also a DPS trooper, who's also a DPS trooper.
30:24
SPEAKER_05: So how did how did you finally find out, Kayla?
30:26
SPEAKER_02: What so you know, I kept calling Scott and calling Scott and calling Scott.
30:32
SPEAKER_05: Um and how and that's gotta be all because you know, obviously Tyler and Scott were friends, mentor, looked up to Scott, and all of a sudden he sees you calling on that phone and he knows he can't.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:44
SPEAKER_05: That's horrible.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: That's that is horrible.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that, actually.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
30:47
SPEAKER_05: That's you know, i and I think I think everybody I don't know what people uh what some people's perceptions are, but you know, uh I mean we're human.
30:55
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
30:56
SPEAKER_05: I mean, police officers are human.
30:57
SPEAKER_05: That's the absolute worst thing that you know I can imagine happening.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it is.
31:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean it for everybody, you know, and so you know, after calling multiple times, um the phone finally rang, my parents' phone.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: And you know, this is you know, 2008.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: So they had, you know, it was a cordless landline, but they didn't have caller ID, you know.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: So Scott would always call me right back.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: When I called, he'd always call me right back.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: So when the phone rang, I just knew it was him.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: I knew it was him calling me back because he always did, you know, and so when I answered, I remember I had to have like just this like just relief in my voice, you know.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: And when I answered, um I heard it was quiet for a second, you know, and then I heard, um, is this Michaela Burns?
31:47
SPEAKER_02: And immediately it was Mike Horn, I knew his voice.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: And I said, What happened?
31:54
SPEAKER_02: And he goes, Uh, I just need to talk to you face to face.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: I said, Is he dead?
32:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: He's like, I I just need to talk to you face to face.
32:03
SPEAKER_05: So he didn't tell you at that point?
32:05
SPEAKER_02: No, because yeah, he once again, I threw him off answering the phone.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, um he was actually coming up my parents' driveway, and I, you know, once I said, you know, is he dead?
32:14
SPEAKER_02: And he said, I just need to talk to you face to face, I just threw the phone down.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I'm I remember my mom was like, wait, let me talk to him.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: And I don't really remember much after that.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: I threw the phone down, I walked inside.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think I just fell to the ground.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: And I remember, you know, my my aunt, she was in there crying because apparently everyone in there knew more than what I did at that point.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, and she was holding my daughter, and you know, my daughter's smiling at me.
32:38
SPEAKER_05: Right.
32:39
SPEAKER_05: And she's she's three months old at this time.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: Five months old, actually.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: She's five months old.
32:42
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: But she was little, three, five, it's pretty much the same thing.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, and she was just smiling, and I thought, well, what am I gonna do?
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, how am I gonna get through this?
32:53
SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, he really loved her.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: You know, how am I gonna get through this?
32:59
SPEAKER_02: It was it was very horrible.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, I don't know how long I was on the ground for, probably not long, but I just felt someone like grab me and it was Mike.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: It was Mike Horn, you know, and it, you know, I felt bad for DPS because nothing went right as far as notifications that night.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, no one knew where to find me because my parents live out in the middle of nowhere.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, they literally live out in the woods, and you know, no one could find me.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: I don't even know.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: I don't think my cell phone was listed on his emergency contact.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it was it was a nightmare.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, to make matters worse, this is just like the most horrible thing ever.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: Um Scott's parents, his dad mainly, like to listen to the scanner.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: And Scott hated it.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: He said, I don't care if you listen to it when I'm not working, but when I'm working, don't listen to it.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: There's no don't listen to it.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: And his mother would say, you know, don't listen to that one, you know, she would get mad at Ronnie, don't listen, I don't want to hear that when he's working.
34:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, they were listening to it that night.
34:06
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, when they hear that civilian get on the radio, and I mean they knew that Scott, you know, they could hear him saying things, so they knew where he was, what he was doing, and you know, when they heard, you know, that guy scream for help, that's how they found out.
34:24
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that that's it was terrible.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: That's it, that was it was terrible.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: So no no notifications went the way that DPS wanted it to, you know, and I always felt really bad about that for them because you know, that's not what you want to have happen, you know.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: But it was chaos, it was a lot of chaos.
34:40
SPEAKER_05: And that that's I can't even imagine.
34:42
SPEAKER_05: So the whole thing really, and that's one of the things I always worry about when we get critical incidents and calls, and you know, heaven forbid, you know, an officer gets killed is the waste, especially now with social media.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness, it just blows up.
34:54
SPEAKER_05: It just blows up.
34:56
SPEAKER_05: And you know, what do you do you remember about what time all this was taken?
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Eight o'clock.
35:01
SPEAKER_05: So that had already spread that fast and in just a matter of a few minutes.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: I think he was killed at eight, around eight, because I remember America, like, you know, it was after American Auto was over.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: That's how I remember.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: It's so weird what you remember and what you don't remember, but um, all of this was going on between like eight and nine, you know, like eight, eight thirty, nine-ish.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, just the the chaos.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it was it was crazy, it was awful.
35:28
SPEAKER_05: So, so so after that initial you find out all this, so obviously you're uh you're still at your in-laws house.
35:37
SPEAKER_05: You're still on the scene.
35:39
SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah, yes, sir.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: I was at my parents' house.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay, parents' house.
35:43
SPEAKER_05: So what so what I mean talk to I mean, talk me through the next couple hours, days, I know you're you're at work.
35:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so DPS shows up on scene uh and the the right I mean there was it was a lot of a lot of cops, a lot of lot of the Rangers showed up uh and they began you know the investigation.
36:01
SPEAKER_04: Uh within hours they you know cut warrants for the guy.
36:05
SPEAKER_04: I know his last name was Robertson.
36:07
SPEAKER_04: I don't know his first name.
36:08
SPEAKER_04: I forgot his first name.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: Brandon Robertson.
36:11
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
36:12
SPEAKER_04: Uh we we found out that there was a female with him during this traffic stop.
36:18
SPEAKER_04: He was he he was actually actually an ex-cop.
36:21
SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
36:22
SPEAKER_04: How high on dope.
36:23
SPEAKER_04: And uh Scott just randomly you know did did a traffic stop.
36:28
SPEAKER_04: Um so this was on a I recalled it on a Sunday.
36:34
SPEAKER_04: I guess it was on a was it a Monday?
36:35
SPEAKER_04: Tuesday.
36:36
SPEAKER_04: Tuesday?
36:36
SPEAKER_05: American Idol.
36:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, American Idol.
36:38
SPEAKER_04: American Idol.
36:39
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: So But I could be wrong.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: It could have been on a Sunday.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't so I just remember American Idol, whatever night that comes.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: I haven't watched it since.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: I know I know.
36:48
SPEAKER_04: Well yeah, I I couldn't imagine.
36:50
SPEAKER_04: They uh I know that several officers, and I mean multiple officers met that night, and uh this the manhunt kind of went through the next day, and we all kind of made like a pack like we want this that you know end or kick, you know, get this guy before the funeral.
37:06
SPEAKER_04: Because you know, the next day was they went into funeral preparations.
37:11
SPEAKER_05: Right.
37:12
SPEAKER_04: So the entire East Texas region for the most part, I mean, from Texas County down to Longview, and I don't mean that broad, but all of Jefferson was we had roadblocks.
37:24
SPEAKER_04: I mean, DPS, all of region, all all of Company 1B was up there.
37:29
SPEAKER_04: Uh the entire Jefferson, Marion County, Cass County shut down, there was roadblocks everywhere.
37:34
SPEAKER_04: So it trickled on a couple days.
37:36
SPEAKER_04: She began to you know plan this funeral.
37:39
SPEAKER_05: Um and on what Marion, have you during this time, have you talked to Tyler at this point?
37:44
SPEAKER_04: Yes, in between?
37:45
SPEAKER_04: We weren't, she and I weren't.
37:47
SPEAKER_04: That was literally the first time we'd met each other was at that party a week before.
37:50
SPEAKER_04: A week before, yeah.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: I'd say if I did, I probably don't remember.
37:54
SPEAKER_04: No, yeah, I hadn't talked to her.
37:56
SPEAKER_04: And um honestly, I was I mean, I don't I'm not sure what I would have so um I I didn't have much sleep at that point in time.
38:07
SPEAKER_04: Like every single cop in that area, uh cast in Marion Counties, whether it was city, county, or state or federal, uh was completely devoted to trying to find this asshole that just murdered uh a very much beloved and respected man, you know.
38:24
SPEAKER_04: So uh Michaela, I think on Thursday is when you finalized the funeral, right?
38:31
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, Thursday was the um just the family viewing, Friday was the public viewing, and Saturday was the funeral.
38:40
SPEAKER_05: You want to go into detail or or talk about what Yeah, look, I'm curious about that too.
38:46
SPEAKER_05: So once uh obviously that night, you're shocked, you're still in shock, this whole, you know.
38:53
SPEAKER_05: Was there a resource there or something that helped you get get through this to do the planning?
38:57
SPEAKER_02: There was.
38:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that very night, I mean, you know, I stayed up all night.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, all this happened in the evening.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: Um not uh probably it probably wasn't even three hours.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: Um Summer Wassif from uh DPS Victim Services, she, you know, they're out of Dallas.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: Um she was at my parents' house um there with me for my you know support.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh then I remember the colonel and all these people came out.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: And I from what people have told me, even that was a whole thing in itself because you know, they had to go, he flew in, and I think they flew into the Tyler airport and they had to go get him from there and to the I mean it was just like them even trying to get him to, you know, this hole-in-the-wall place in northeast Texas was, you know, and so they did not get there until very late.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: It was, I think it was probably like maybe two in the morning through, but you know, that's just their that's what they do is they come out that night.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I do vaguely remember meeting them.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: They were all in my parents' house, and uh yeah, it was crazy.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then uh Josh Mason, he was Scott's sergeant, but he was also my liaison officer.
40:10
SPEAKER_02: He was the one taking care of things for me.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, just he came with me to the house to pick out the uniform, um, which sucked.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: I hated going into that house.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: It was awful.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, as soon as you walk in, there's like wedding pictures, and it just I I do I don't remember a whole lot, but I do remember that being very, very traumatic.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: I just cried the whole time, you know.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh Tim Smith, he actually he was a lieutenant with DPS.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: Um he planned the entire funeral.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: God love him.
40:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he was amazing.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, he didn't do anything without my say-so.
40:48
SPEAKER_02: He always asked if, you know, but I don't know what I would have done.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: I don't I couldn't have planned it.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was a mess, you know.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: Well, all of us were his, you know, just even going to pick out the casket was so surreal.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm 27 years old.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: No, it's 28, 28 years old picking out a casket.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: It just it just didn't seem real.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: It was awful.
41:10
SPEAKER_05: Well, it's a shock.
41:11
SPEAKER_05: And then all of a sudden, you know, you're very vulnerable and you're you know, you're trying to plan and planning a funeral is hard enough, but to plan a funeral for an officer that was killed on line of duty where it's exponentially larger.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
41:25
SPEAKER_05: Is it would have to be horrible.
41:27
SPEAKER_02: It was, and I was very fortunate that DPS took care of literally everything for me.
41:33
SPEAKER_02: You know, I was very lucky, you know, some of these smaller departments, they don't have, you know, they're not lucky like that, they don't have that those kind of resources.
41:40
SPEAKER_02: But that's what I was gonna say.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I was very fortunate and I'm always grateful to them because they've always taken care of me and you know they just they planned a beautiful funeral, you know, what I remember of it.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, it was it was it was really nice.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: Um but I just remember, you know, Thursday was the family visitation, and we got there.
42:08
SPEAKER_02: I remember as soon as I stepped out, Mike Horn was there, and you know, he handed me this little blue satin bag, you know, he's balling and it's Scott, Scott's wedding ring in it, and his gold chain he always wore, and um went inside and saw him for the first time, and you know, it was traumatic, it was awful.
42:25
SPEAKER_02: But when we were walking up to the funeral home, I remember seeing like all these big like SWAT trucks going by, which was unusual because you know, Lyndon, you know, as most smaller downtowns, just to see that, it was just very weird, you know, and I and I was like, huh, that's weird.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: Because I just remember seeing like SWAT and it it just did it seemed out of place, but I had so much going on, you know, that I wasn't even thinking about it.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: And I I didn't seem like I it didn't seem like I was in there with Scott for very long until summer, my my victim service liaison, she came running in there and she was like, you know, Michaela, Michaela, I just want you to know it's over.
43:06
SPEAKER_02: I just want you to know it's over.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: He killed himself, which he can probably go into more of that.
43:12
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
43:12
SPEAKER_05: So so you're at the funeral home for the family visitation that night.
43:16
SPEAKER_05: Y'all have had a manhunt going on now for several days, yeah.
43:19
SPEAKER_05: Trying to trying to find this guy.
43:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so they I guess DPS had got some intelligence that he was up uh near a road.
43:25
SPEAKER_04: And the interesting thing about this was was that you know, this was about 15 miles from where Scott was murdered at.
43:32
SPEAKER_04: Uh he had he had driven from Jefferson to Linden.
43:36
SPEAKER_04: Uh he was actually what three miles from where you you guys were having the funeral.
43:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if that, he might not have even been that far.
43:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and he was what a quarter mile from where Scott grew up, like the feed store.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh wasn't far.
43:49
SPEAKER_04: So they had got some intel that that he was kind of hit out in this cabin uh on this back county road, and so they they ran a flyover.
43:58
SPEAKER_04: Well, when they did that He freaked out the suspect uh and called 911 and started basically saying that he was gonna kill the the girl that was with him.
44:07
SPEAKER_04: And so that's when SWAT rolled up and that's when he went ahead and smoked himself.
44:12
SPEAKER_05: So when you're seeing these SWAT vehicles go by, I'm thinking that they're all there for the funeral.
44:19
SPEAKER_05: But in reality, they're going out to the scene where this guy is.
44:22
SPEAKER_05: Correct.
44:23
SPEAKER_04: This was the family viewing.
44:24
SPEAKER_04: This was not a this was not this was literally just the family for the funeral for them.
44:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was just to be sure that everything looked good on him and that they didn't need to change anything before the public viewing the next night.
44:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
44:39
SPEAKER_04: We were we were actively still trying to get this done, taken care of before to give you know them and us, honestly us, closure.
44:47
SPEAKER_05: Right.
44:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was horrible actually going to the funeral home and and knowing that that guy was still out there.
44:53
SPEAKER_02: I do remember that.
44:54
SPEAKER_02: I remember, you know, because we were all, you know, you you become very close with all the police officers and their wives because it's a small department, you know, and it's just a small area.
45:06
SPEAKER_02: You know, you have Christmas parties and you have barbecues, and you know, and I was terrified that he was going to kill someone else.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: And I just couldn't imagine someone else having to go through that too.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, it was it was horrible.
45:18
SPEAKER_02: And just him being on the loose, it was just a a day, you know, or you know, a day or two, but it felt like forever, you know, it felt like forever.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: So I was so relieved when they told me that he was dead.
45:30
SPEAKER_05: I was gonna ask you that.
45:31
SPEAKER_05: So so as a victim, which which you were um once once summer comes running back in there and tells you that so you immediately felt a little relief that okay, that part's that part's over.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
45:46
SPEAKER_05: But but then I think what people don't realize is okay, that part's over.
45:49
SPEAKER_05: But now you have here Miss Face Single Mom.
45:53
SPEAKER_02: Now the hard part begins.
45:54
SPEAKER_05: Five month-old baby.
45:57
SPEAKER_05: How do you what do you do?
45:59
SPEAKER_05: What do you do to keep going forward?
46:01
unknown: Yeah.
46:03
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I know it hasn't you know, I've I yeah you know, I've been involved with you know, a lot of officer involved shootings, that kind of stuff, and and and and the widows are remarkably strong.
46:14
SPEAKER_05: But and they but but they all have a different story of how that what their life looks like.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:19
SPEAKER_05: So how did you how did you keep what'd you do?
46:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, I will say that if it wasn't for having a five-month-old, I don't know what I would have done.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know I would have done something different, but you know, you can't sit around and just wither away because you have a baby to take care of.
46:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I had to get up and I had to feed her and I had to keep going on with my life in a sense, because nobody else is gonna do it for me, nor should they have to.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, my mom actually um she got sick not long after Scott died, she had lung cancer and she ended up passing away the next year.
46:57
SPEAKER_02: So she was sick and she couldn't help me.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: But I just always tried to do what I thought Scott would want me to do.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: And I made mistakes.
47:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was 28, you know, they don't give you a handbook grief.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, I I definitely learned from them, you know, and I I've been able to extend myself a little grace with that, you know.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: But I just stayed really involved with her, and then as a few years went by, I got involved with cops.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, the spouse retreat was my first involvement with cops.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: We can I guess we can talk about that or later or whatever.
47:39
SPEAKER_05: Well, what are you talking about?
47:41
SPEAKER_05: Concerns of police survivors.
47:42
SPEAKER_05: Um, for people that don't know that.
47:43
SPEAKER_05: Um you're not the first person that I've actually heard say that, that they never had really an involvement until they went to the retreat.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
47:51
SPEAKER_05: So what did that do for you?
47:53
SPEAKER_05: And and and I guess another better question is is what is the retreat that you're talking about?
47:57
SPEAKER_02: So after the funeral and everything, and things kind of died down a little, Summer you know, told me to be looking out for this organization called the Concerns of Police Survivors, if they're gonna get in touch with me, and it's really important that I answer my phone because they're gonna have information on the Texas Memorial and the Um National Memorial.
48:18
SPEAKER_02: And she also said, you know, there's a retreat coming up, a spouse retreat for surviving spouses, and uh it's in Potosi, Missouri, and it's in September.
48:27
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, yeah, that's really close.
48:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was only four months.
48:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
48:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was like, nah, I don't know about that.
48:34
SPEAKER_02: I don't think I want to go to that.
48:36
SPEAKER_02: And she was very persistent.
48:39
SPEAKER_02: She was, um, almost to the point of being annoying, but uh thank God that she was, she did her job because you know, it I made a lot of excuses why I shouldn't go.
48:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, I have a newborn, she's only gonna be like nine months at the time.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: I would have to drive three hours to Dallas by myself, I had to fly by myself.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: These are all things I didn't want to do, you know.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, but she really encouraged me to do it, and I did.
49:05
SPEAKER_02: And that was the first time in four months that I felt hope.
49:14
SPEAKER_05: That's good.
49:14
SPEAKER_02: I it was because you know, I tell people I did have a lot of support when Scott was killed, you know, I had my family.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Um but you could be in a room with 200 people and feel completely alone because no one knew what I was going through.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: No one in that area had had their husband shot and killed, you know, and so no one understood what I was going through, and I felt really alone.
49:39
SPEAKER_02: And when I went to the spice retreat, I almost turned around and came back.
49:42
SPEAKER_02: When I landed in Missouri, I had like a huge meltdown, you know.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: So I was like, I'm I'm I mean, I looked for flights on the way back.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: I said I can't do this.
49:51
SPEAKER_02: But I went to the bathroom and I kind of collected myself a little and I was like, I'm gonna at least go into the little room that you're supposed to meet in, and I'm just gonna get a feel for it.
49:59
SPEAKER_02: You know, if they're all crazy, I'm gonna leave.
50:02
SPEAKER_02: And I was really hoping they were all gonna be crazy because I really didn't want to be there.
50:05
SPEAKER_02: But I I went down there and immediately, immediately they just embraced me, you know.
50:12
SPEAKER_05: Um Well, you're part of a you're I hate to say it, but you're part of a small group of individuals that nobody can understand what you've gone through except that other small group of individuals.
50:22
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
50:23
SPEAKER_02: And and being at that retreat that weekend was just life, it was life-changing for the better.
50:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, I I saw people laughing.
50:32
SPEAKER_02: You know, I didn't think I was ever gonna do that again.
50:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, people were laughing and having a good time, and they were at different stages in their grief, and I thought, okay, it's not always gonna be this bad because shock is a real thing.
50:45
SPEAKER_02: And I was still in a little bit sense of shock when I went there.
50:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was very numb to, you know, it was just unbelievable to me that had happened, you know.
50:57
SPEAKER_05: And you can't put a timeline on grief.
50:59
SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
51:00
SPEAKER_05: And I and I think so many times that something happens to somebody, oh, we need to get over that.
51:03
SPEAKER_05: Well, you know what?
51:04
SPEAKER_05: I I went through a spell, I lost my mom and two brothers in a matter of just I mean a very short period of time.
51:10
SPEAKER_05: And you you can't you can't put a timeline on that grief.
51:12
SPEAKER_05: And there's still days today where you suffer the grief, and I'm sure even today both of you go through episodes like that.
51:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, it is it is a new normal, you know.
51:21
SPEAKER_02: You you find a new normal, it changes you.
51:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, you can let it change you for the worse, or you can let it change you for the better, you know.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: And I try to take what happened and do a little good with it because I think that's what Scott would want, you know, and and cops is one of the things that helped me get through a lot of stuff, you know, finding other people who understood what I was going through.
51:44
SPEAKER_05: Well, just finding hope.
51:45
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
51:45
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think that's the best way you put it.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, because at that point I didn't think I was gonna find it.
51:50
SPEAKER_04: There's so many cool organizations that we support being TMPA, and I'm not saying that one's better than the other, but I will say this Concerns of Police Survivors, I think, holds a very, very special place in I think all of our hearts because it's just a phenomenal organization for what they stand for.
52:12
SPEAKER_04: I mean, you can only be a director or not not an elected official with with cops, but you can only be on their board if you're a survivor.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yes.
52:26
SPEAKER_04: And that's by God, if we don't stand for that, or if we don't support something like that, then I don't know what behind that.
52:34
SPEAKER_05: And and and and just the resources.
52:36
SPEAKER_05: So what happens is if we have an officer who gets hurt or injured or you know, killed in line of duty, one of our our very first calls is the cops.
52:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
52:43
SPEAKER_05: Because y'all are the y'all, y'all, just like you said earlier, no one no one knows what you've been through.
52:49
unknown: Yeah.
52:49
SPEAKER_05: Except people in that organization.
52:52
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
52:52
SPEAKER_05: So who better to help a new person in that club that somebody that's already been through it and understands, you know what, I went through four months with no hope.
53:02
unknown: Yeah.
53:02
SPEAKER_05: But here's what to expect, here's what's going to happen.
53:05
SPEAKER_05: But there is some hope through that.
53:08
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
53:09
SPEAKER_02: And I always tell people, you know, cops events, they can, you know, they can be overwhelming at times, you know, but I always encourage people when you when you go to something with cops, whether it's a retreat or the memorial, any of that, I always encourage people to go twice.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: Do it twice.
53:25
SPEAKER_02: Because the first time you're just you're it's overwhelmed.
53:29
SPEAKER_02: It's overwhelming.
53:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, but you get a a different perspective when you go back the next time and things are a little different and you can appreciate it more.
53:37
SPEAKER_02: You know, so I always tell people if you don't like it for some reason the first time, don't give up on it.
53:42
SPEAKER_02: Go back because it they are very beneficial, you know.
53:48
SPEAKER_02: People who lost their husbands, and I'm not trying to make light of anybody else's loss, you know, but when you're a police officer and you're killed, it's it's it's different, you know, it's just a whole different element.
54:00
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's in the it's so public, you know, your quite public, you know.
54:05
SPEAKER_02: Um and it it's just it has a different dynamic to it.
54:08
SPEAKER_02: And so other people who understand that dynamic really understand you.
54:13
SPEAKER_02: And so well, just the whole process.
54:15
SPEAKER_05: You were talking about, you know, planning the funeral.
54:16
SPEAKER_05: Well, you know, a a police officer who's killed in line of duty, that funeral is not just like your normal funeral in Wendell, Texas.
54:24
SPEAKER_05: It's it's or Lyndon.
54:26
SPEAKER_05: It's it's it's it's a huge yes, it's a huge deal.
54:30
SPEAKER_05: It was so just you know, just logistically, you know, most people never have to go through that.
54:36
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
54:38
SPEAKER_02: It was it was it was a humbling experience, I can tell you that.
54:41
SPEAKER_02: I don't think I've ever seen that many people.
54:44
SPEAKER_05: So four months, go to Cops Retreat, come back, I mean, walk me through.
54:49
SPEAKER_05: I know, like I said, there's no timeline on grief, but obviously you're sitting here with us today.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, um I had a I had a few rough years.
54:57
SPEAKER_02: Um I had a lot of I also had a lot of people in my family die.
55:00
SPEAKER_02: My mom, you know, she died a year after Scott did, and um then uh like two or three of her sisters, three of her sisters died right after that.
55:12
SPEAKER_02: Um my uh my sister died in a really tragic way.
55:17
SPEAKER_02: She she killed herself.
55:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, she was my niece, but we were very close.
55:21
SPEAKER_02: She was she's five years younger than me, so we would always kind of switch out.
55:25
SPEAKER_02: Sister niece, it depending on who we were with, but she uh, you know, she took her own life, she was only 28, and then Scott's dad passed from heart attack, and then Scott's brother's wife died um from cancer, and then my dad died all within this is all in a five-year span.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: So it was it was tough, you know.
55:43
SPEAKER_05: Um and so let me touch on that.
55:46
SPEAKER_05: So I just told you I had my mom, two brothers, all within that, and uh I'm I'm all about going to seeing a therapist, right?
55:54
SPEAKER_05: They said it's almost better off if you lose everybody at once, because what happens is what you went through is you never get a chance to grieve before you're getting hit with something else.
56:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:03
SPEAKER_02: It's it was back to back.
56:05
SPEAKER_02: I had compounded grief, absolutely.
56:07
SPEAKER_02: Um therapy, yes.
56:10
SPEAKER_02: That is one of the main things that got me through a lot of stuff is is I visited a therapist frequently.
56:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh and honestly, getting back into church helped quite a bit.
56:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, because I was very angry.
56:23
SPEAKER_02: I was angry, you know.
56:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, the same place that our wedding had been at just, you know, a year prior was where his funeral was.
56:33
SPEAKER_02: And I I, you know, I remember when I went back to church for the first time, I was mad.
56:38
SPEAKER_02: Micah was crying the entire time.
56:41
SPEAKER_02: Everybody was staring at me.
56:43
SPEAKER_02: It just, you know, I was mad, and I didn't want to have anything to do with church or God or anything else.
56:48
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I think with you know, as the years progressed and maturity and life, life tends to grow you up faster than what you want to, you know, what you want to.
56:58
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, just uh I think just understanding that, you know, things happen.
57:04
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know why they happen.
57:06
SPEAKER_02: I I'm not here to try to figure out, but you have to have to do the best with what you're given, you know.
57:13
SPEAKER_02: And I didn't want to just be a miserable person because what am I teaching my daughter?
57:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, that you know, every time bad something bad happens to you, you gotta feel sorry for yourself.
57:23
SPEAKER_02: No, you know, you have to kind of make the best out of something.
57:27
SPEAKER_02: And you know, so we that was kind of our motto was we just tried to, you know, live our best life and you know, therapy, absolutely, cops functions, yes.
57:37
SPEAKER_02: You know, retreats.
57:39
SPEAKER_05: Well, you know, the more uh you know Clint says it, um it's okay not to be okay.
57:45
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
57:46
SPEAKER_05: And you know, I I've had I've had my sister-in-law um killed herself.
57:50
SPEAKER_05: I've also had uh since 2005, five really close friends, police officers kill themselves.
57:57
SPEAKER_05: It's okay not to be okay.
57:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:59
SPEAKER_05: But make sure you go talk to somebody about that.
58:01
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
58:02
SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, uh and and people get angry, but you can't, you know God is good.
58:08
SPEAKER_05: Absolutely, but but nobody says that God is gonna be good to us all the time as far as what we think should be.
58:16
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
58:18
SPEAKER_02: So that's that's just kind of how I've you know made it through, you know.
58:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm still a little crazy, but aren't we all?
58:28
SPEAKER_05: Right?
58:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, I date a cop too, so that you know I'm definitely crazy.
58:35
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you are yeah, no kidding.
58:37
SPEAKER_05: Well so I I just met you today for the first time, and uh I thank you for sharing your story with me.
58:43
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it was I can especially after hearing not only you know your your your husband for a short time, but then just your family and everything that happened.
58:52
SPEAKER_05: Um I can't imagine, but here we are, we're both, you know, you're sitting here today, yeah, smiling.
58:58
SPEAKER_05: You have hope.
58:58
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
58:59
SPEAKER_02: Life is good, it is good, you know, it's tough, and you know, no one ever said it was gonna be perfect.
59:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I do, you know, you grieve what could have been.
59:09
SPEAKER_02: You know, milestones are hard.
59:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, my daughter's lucky because you know I've I've dated Chris for 10 years, and you know, he's a police officer.
59:17
SPEAKER_02: He worked with Harris County for a while, and he just moved out to Chambers County, and you know, I'm I'm fortunate that he was there.
59:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we've been dating since Michael was five.
59:26
SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, those little milestones and you grieve you just grieve in different ways, you know.
59:35
SPEAKER_02: And I mean I'm lucky that he was there, that he's there to to kind of you know step in the role.
59:42
SPEAKER_02: But it's still, you know, it's still tough.
59:43
SPEAKER_02: And tomorrow is Scott's birthday.
59:45
SPEAKER_05: Oh wow.
59:46
SPEAKER_02: Yep, he would have been 54.
59:48
unknown: Wow.
59:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, and then he was killed April 29th.
59:52
SPEAKER_02: So you know, it is it's just sad.
59:54
SPEAKER_02: It's sad seeing, you know, you always wonder, you know, how he would have been with Micah or, you know, how different things might have been, you know, and so she um she goes to kids camp and that helped her a lot.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_05: Kids camp's another or it's another program through college.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_05: And that's for the children.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes, uh, you have to be six, from six to fourteen.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_02: And she actually just graduated from kids camp this past year.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_02: And uh she's gonna be.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_04: Do you plan on getting involved or staying involved with cops?
1:00:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes, they actually have a young adults camp in Georgia that they get to go to from uh 15 to 21, I believe.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_02: 20, 21.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_02: So she gets, you know, she's excited about she has to fly by herself for the first time.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_02: But you know, she um I used to hate it when people would say, well, at least she was little and she doesn't remember.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_04: No.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_02: And I always say that's horrible.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_02: There's no good it's uh it's all bad.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter if you have a kid that's 13, if you have a baby, it it's all horrible, you know.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_02: Like I couldn't imagine now telling her that her dad had died at her like to me, that's horrible.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think that's terrible, you know.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, but when you're a baby, you're right, you you you don't remember because you don't have any memories.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, her memories are what we give her.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's only a handful of pictures with her and her dad.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_02: And my, you know, two years of stories runs thin, you know, and so I always tell people if you have a story about Scott, please tell her.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_02: She loves, she would love to hear, she loves talking about him, even if it's the same story over and over.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_02: She loves it because that's all she has.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_02: She doesn't have absolutely she doesn't have the 39 years of memories that a lot of other people do.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna tell you this before you came in this morning, Tyler was telling me stories, and uh just from what little bitty told me, uh you you you lost a wonderful husband.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_02: I did.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_02: He was a really good man, and that's what's so tragic is you know, when I take my daughter back to Linden and we talk to people, I can't tell you how many people have said, you know, Scott was my best friend.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_02: He was my best friend, you know, because he was everybody's best friend.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_05: And that tells you what kind of man he is, right there.
1:02:07
SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_02: He was kind to everybody, and I tell her, you know, that she absolutely has to be the same way.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, he really was.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_02: He was very kind to people.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_02: He actually didn't like writing tickets.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_03: Oh, it is a fake trick.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_02: Yes, he would feel bad.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_02: And just a quick story about him.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_02: He worked his first fatality not long before he was killed.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_02: He worked a couple of fatalities, but one um was this older woman, and you know, she was in a car wreck, died, and he worked that and he absolutely it killed him.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_02: It tore him up so much that he, you know, because he had to contact her daughter and let her know her daughter was in her 50s or so, you know, she was older, but it killed him that he had to make that notification.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely tore him up.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_02: And he kept in touch with her.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_02: There were two fatalities that he ended up working in.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_02: He kept in touch with the the victims' families.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_02: And after he was killed, you know, they reached out to me and one of the women she made me this beautiful, these ornaments with our picture in it that I still put up on my tree every year.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, she made me a scrapbook page, you know, because I I got in contact with them after he was killed, but that's just the kind of person he was, you know.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_02: He didn't have to go back and talk to those families, you know, but he it hurt his heart that he had to do that, that he had to make that notification.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, just I know that telling them and their reaction just was embedded in his in his heart and his brain.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_02: And it that was just his way, I guess, of you know, maybe dealing with it was checking up on them and being sure they were okay, which he didn't have to do that, but he did.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_02: That's just the kind of person he was.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_02: Right, and that did his best.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_05: And that speaks volumes, which is why you know all law enforcement officers out there, you know, the vast majority, you say he didn't like writing that we don't like writing tickets.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_05: It's part it's just part of the job.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_05: But we're also human.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_05: So when that fatality accident happens, you know, it's it's horrible to give a death notification.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_05: And so obviously the way he did that was personal.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_05: Yes, because he took it personal, and then that's why they kept in touch with him for that long.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_05: And just like the stories Tyler was sharing this morning, just about taking on his days off, going and riding with Tyler to make sure he was gonna be safe as a young officer, that that doesn't happen anymore.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_02: No, no, he really was a he was a very good person.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_05: He was a good cop.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_04: He was no bullshit.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_04: This dude was a good cop.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_04: To this day, there was a there's a podcast.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_04: So there was a podcast that I was telling you about Devil's Town.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_04: So this theory of this missing woman was referenced back to Scott Burns.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_04: Scott stops a woman, or excuse me, a man that had two uh mentally disabled people in the vehicle that was headed towards uh coming into Marion County from Upshur County.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_04: They had some sexual paraphernalia, multiple sexual paraphernalia inside the vehicle.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_04: Uh we can kind of expand upon that.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_04: Use your mental, you know, your mental, your use your imagination.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_04: Imagination there.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_04: Um and what what what Scott found out, and you may you may not know the story, uh, they were headed to Streepport.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_04: Scott stopped him for a taillight that was out.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_04: Uh the middle, the the the girl was mentally handicapped.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_04: She was uh, I think she was 17 or 16, and the guy had a lot of uh videotape equipment inside the vehicle.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_02: I do remember that.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_02: I forgot all about that.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_04: And so what they found, um, there was a 22 pistol in the vehicle.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_04: Scott immediately notified CID uh Rangers didn't come out, but a CID guy came out, they executed a search warrant on the guy's house, and it busted wide open child pornography case.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_05: And that's the one that was in Gilman they were talking about in that podcast.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_04: But it was because of Scott's work.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_04: But it that was just one of many of what of what Scott.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_04: He he liked that's what he that was his bread and butter.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_04: He didn't like writing tickets or working.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_04: That was he liked the criminal aspect of of of the DPS mentality.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_04: That's what he liked.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_04: But that traffic stop is what led to that.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_05: Right, exactly.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_05: Um anyway.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_05: Michaela, I enjoyed meeting you.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it was nice to meet you too.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_02: Thank you all for having me.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this has been a heavy episode.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_04: Uh, but we're gonna end it with three rapid fire questions.
1:06:37
SPEAKER_04: Really, I guess I'll end it with both of you guys if you want to uh Well, she's already had her rapid fire once, so I'm curious to see if her answers are gonna change.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_04: They're probably not.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_04: They're probably not.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_02: I've actually been thinking about them more.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: Good, good.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_02: But I felt like I I froze the last time a little bit.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_02: Alright, all right.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_04: So, both of you.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_04: Favorite line or favorite cop movie?
1:06:58
SPEAKER_04: Frank, favorite line from a cop movie or favorite cop movie, favorite patrol car and favorite drink.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_05: Go ahead.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_02: So the only thing that changed this time was I still like Bruce Willis and Godhardt movies.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_02: Best Christmas movie ever.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I do like it when he says Yippie Kage, but I also like it when he says the asshole.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_02: But when I left, I thought, oh my god, I can't believe I didn't say this.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_02: Dirty Harry.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_02: Come on, how can you not, you know.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_03: Great, great, yeah.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_03: Come on.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_02: Couldn't believe I forgot that one.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, I still like the Camaro.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_02: The the you know, the DPS Camaro.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_02: Um what was it?
1:07:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, drink martini.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_02: It's still a dirty, dirty martini.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_04: Dirty, dirty martini.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_02: And if I want to switch it up, you know, I like Cape Cods too, but I really, really like dirty martinis.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_05: So I have a son that lives in Boston who goes to Cape to Cape Cod quite a bit.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_05: So I gotta ask him how his Cape Cod game is.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_05: Well, I've never had one.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_02: It's vodka cranberry with wine.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_02: It's just a fancy word to say in a vodka cranberry.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah, with wine.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_04: Try it out.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_05: Never had one.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_05: We're a little too uh small townish for the Cape Cod game.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, this is this is a Linden girl or an Atlantic girl.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_05: No, Atlanta.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_05: Atlanta.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_05: Atlanta.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_01: Step up from Linden now.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_01: Mont Belving.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm in Mont to Belview now.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_05: Well, you know, I'm so so I have listened to every podcast.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_05: Like every one of them.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_05: And I gotta give a shout out to Dallas ATO because I listen to theirs every week, also.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_04: Joe King.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_05: So I'm gonna say my my favorite, I thought about this long and hard, and it's gonna have to be Dirty Harry.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_05: It's the best movie with you know the best line, you know, do you feel lucky?
1:08:36
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, punk.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_05: I will say, End of watch is another great cop movie.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_05: I've seen that movie.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_05: Very heavy, and I like how it starts off with the whole thing.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_05: I'm a police officer.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_04: Probably the best one that depicts law enforcement, yeah.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_05: That's a really good one.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_02: Is that the one with Jake Gillen holding?
1:08:50
SPEAKER_05: It is.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't actually I haven't watched that.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_05: It's heavy.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know if I was ready for that.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_05: It's heavy.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_02: I can't watch live PD either.
1:08:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or no, body cam.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_02: I can't watch that either.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_02: It's heavy.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_04: Crown Vic.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_04: Crown Vic.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_04: Clint McNair, ride it down, Tony Wright, Clint McNair.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_04: Gotta say Crown Vic.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_05: Thank you, sir.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_05: Best car ever.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_05: Ever.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_05: Ever.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_05: And uh, you know, the official the official drink of the TMPA field-up.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_05: It may not be fancy, but we're not fancy.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_05: It's makersmart.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_05: Maker Smart.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_01: It's good.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty good.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_05: Now the official mixed drink.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_05: We can't go Cape Cod.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_05: It's gonna have to be the old-fashioned.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_05: And if you ever find yourself in Mineral Wells, Texas, the best old-fashioned is at coffee and cocktails at the corner right across from the Baker Hotel.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Mike try that out.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we'll go.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_05: We'll go.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_04: Hey, I appreciate you co-hosting today and interview me.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_04: But I love it.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_04: Great time.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_04: Great time.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, thank you guys for having me.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_05: Hey, I appreciate you coming back for the second round.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_02: Hey, if you need me for round three, I'm here.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_02: Oh God, please don't say that.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh God, that'd be so bad.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_04: That'd be horrible.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_05: That wouldn't that be bad.
1:09:56
SPEAKER_05: Tyler going.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_05: I felt so bad for him, but he said I lost everything.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_05: You're not gonna believe it.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_02: I waited and waited.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_04: I kept looking at the phone and I kept waiting for the phone to call you, and I was Janet was like, What do you when you were you gonna call her?
1:10:09
SPEAKER_04: I was like, I really don't want to.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I was hoping for the audio would show up, but it never did.
1:10:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I was excited because I was like, yes, I get, you know, I can get my hair done, get the Botox, and they still couldn't fit me in.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_01: I was like, no.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is me.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's glory.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_04: Well, you guys, uh, you guys stay safe out there.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_04: This has been a heavy, heavy, heavy episode.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_04: Thank you for uh taking time to listen.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_04: Uh again, Michaela, thank you for coming down.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_02: It was my pleasure.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_04: Tony, I appreciate you coming on and uh hope to have you back.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_04: Anytime.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_04: Anytime.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_04: You guys hit that subscribe button, hit the download button.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_04: Uh man, we love you guys.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_04: Stay safe.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_04: God bless you guys, and as always, we God bless Texas.