Latest / Two in Twenty / Build up CX by breaking down silos

Transcript

Build up CX by breaking down silos · Two in Twenty

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the first episode of Two and Twenty, news podcast from the team at White Marble Consulting.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kirsten Hastings, head of content at White Marble.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: In each episode, I will be joined by two industry experts as we speak to lift the lights on investment direct industry challenges and industry experiences.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Joining me in this episode are Michelle Kalka, director of client experience industry investors, and Quite Fields EU and Center of White Marble.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Over the next 20 or so minutes, we will seek to delve into a range of topics, including what makes a break the customer experience, where CX should sit within an organization, and what to prioritize.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now I apologize that the very first question that I'm going to ask you, Michelle, takes us back to the pandemic, but would you agree that you know COVID-19 really accelerated a focus on and a commitment to CX?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think really what it did was humanize things.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we for the first time were all living the same thing.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: We all empathized with each other as individuals.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think everything else was kind of removed.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, whether you were at home dealing with children whilst working, whether they were small or you're trying to school, or like me, you're living at home, you know, you feel a bit isolated in the moment.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: There was a real empathy for each other.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was the first moment where we really started to consider actually what the engagement model around that needed to be to ensure that we gave our clients the opportunity in what was a very time-poor environment for them right then.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Digital clearly accelerated.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I don't know about you guys, but we'd have had teams for a good eight months before the pandemic.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly we could only work with teams.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's all we knew.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And our clients were going through the same thing, you know, whether it was Zoom and Teams or whatever, but it was the same principle.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I think it accelerated a different mindset to how we could engage with our clients and not just that old traditional kind of way.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, look, humanization, I think, was the key for me and the empathy to the tour.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really what CX for me is about.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: We definitely, I think it both accelerated the focus on how marketing can be a much more strategic function that really was enabling more timely, relevant communications at this sort of very heightened uh period that personalized digital CX became such a focus.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this better use of data and analytics that we continue to see.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it absolutely created an awareness across the business as to how marketing really looked after such critical areas of the client experience.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that has continued on and that investment has continued on largely.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: But to your point around, you know, bringing, you know, humanizing the whole experience, I think, you know, from a from how that's really translated into this focus on brand as well, because those digital journeys have to also have real personality and demonstrate that you care and understand the needs of clients.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think there's a combination of things that we've seen uh certainly working with clients along that sort of broader macro picture.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, Michelle, can you give an example of what good CX actually looks like?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: What priorities need to consider?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, is there anybody either inside the industry or outside that you think is doing a particularly good job?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I mean, I think the first key to this is recognizing it's an end-to-end journey.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think some organisations have a tendency to slip into it's about client service.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we reckon we have to understand that it starts at the point of when they know who you are and it's to the point of when they may leave, and hopefully that cycle continues through.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's ultimately like it's so important from a CS perspective.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think the priority is the understanding behind that and actually beginning to take greater care and understanding around how do I how do I get underneath the bonnet of of these clients?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: How do I get the insight that I need that's over and above what we already know?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we know a lot, don't ever dispute that.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's a an element of enriching that that we need to do more of, and we need to do that at different points of the journey, and again, just not make assumptions along that line.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's how you're going to build actual insights to really be able to make a difference and on what's driving our clients' behaviours and their needs.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of what good CX looks like, to your point, Michelle, around demonstrating that you care, that clients are treated well, that they're treated right.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a real requirement to for businesses to really look in on themselves to understand which parts are not delivering that.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a sort of real critique needed, and it's not a very, you know, because of the nature of this end-to-end journey, it is quite hard to get your arms around, I think.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think good CX often is the kind of the removal of silos, the real focus on culture, client-centric culture.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not just those who are in front of the clients, it has to really be deeply embedded in the DNA of the business.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think again, it's how can you start to learn from other industries?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in you know, I talked about B2B, and I think historically we've drawn that, you know, that's not that's not going to work for us.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how we should be thinking, you know, think like this.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, the the further away you are from the client and that that buying decision is harder, that's no dispute.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's how do you get closer?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Good CX is getting closer and understanding what's driving those decisions and learning from those companies that are doing it well.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, not knowing your end customer, not knowing your client, do you think that's a thing that most companies get wrong?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's your yes.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think there is still a person.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So let's take an organization like Aviva Investors, right?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: There are decision makers within within Aviva Investors.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: We have CFO, we have a CIO, you know, we're all making decisions as a company.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: There is no difference in the organization of which we are dealing with, whether it's an insurance company, whether it's a DB pension, whether it's a wealth, you know, there's there's layers within that where there's influencers that are making decisions across the client journey.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're the people we need to understand, they're the ones we should be taking note of of what's driving them, what's you know, what's motivating them in their decision, and how can we help them?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because coming back to there are several layers.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: We work in a very disaggregated um environment, but you know, get to get closer, you need to understand the layers of which are underneath.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can get close to that first layer, you're going to understand what's driving their behaviours underneath that.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's the insight you need to pull through, and you need to you need to action it.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think in terms of where people could really get it wrong, I think this is potentially the overemphasis on the kind of the journeys they're creating and thinking about um the client touch points, the over-emphasis on attracting clients as opposed to the retaining existing clients.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's got to be really kind of healthy focus on both and what their needs are and those sort of different different journeys and different needs at different times of the journey.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: The business development focus of a business can take it too much sometimes to the acquisition side.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you said it right as well, Twink.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's about being client-centric.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, that's what the core of this is.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, to get a good client experience, you need to make decisions based on the client and the client of which you're dealing with and understanding their behaviors, et cetera.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think where asset managers have generally gone run in the past is we've been very product-centric.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been the big challenge.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's now how do you start to shift that mindset and actually still recognize that you know the product, but ensuring that it's aligned to the client need and then all of the kind of proposition around that and what it needs to be.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I think we need to see a bit more of a shift in this industry.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Olive, I heard on exactly that.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: I heard something the other day that said only people first businesses can be truly client-centric.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the whole combination, is it like the inside, enabling your people on the inside really it kind of drives a better service on the outside?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's very interesting what you say about prioritizing new clients over existing clients because we've all been on the receiving end of getting something in the post where your renewal for something doesn't quite give you any benefits.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you're a new customer, you somehow get all of these incentives.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, is there generally that sort of single point of failure when it comes to the customer journey, or do you think that it's a more cumulative thing?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, I think again, there's different ways of looking at this.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, it's recognizing there's a journey and it needs to be a connected journey.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think that that is the core.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's recognising, I think Trump mentioned, you know, different moments, different times in that journey mean different things to different people.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that where it breaks down is that you can you come in at a point of that journey and you only look forward and you don't look left and you don't look right, and you're not understanding the impact either side within your organization.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very easy to happen, right?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because people come and do their job and they don't, if they don't understand how it all connects, that's where I think you get a point of failure.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it's coming back to, you know, to drive a true good experience is getting everybody in the business to understand the part they play and how important their part is.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think again, historically, we've gone, well, you're a sales team, so you're the most important guys that sit with the client and no one else, you know, actually know.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a huge power behind an operations department.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's a huge power behind compliance.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: All of these different divisions play a huge part in the journey.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think failure is when you don't connect that and understand that.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, because the client ultimately doesn't really care who owns that client touch point, if it's marketing, sales, client services.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so the real the onus really is on, I guess, dissolving those silos and hurdles and kind of really again bringing the client to the front.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't really matter where that sits in your business, so long as it's aligned and consistent and joined up.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now, regulation isn't the first thing I think most people think about when it comes to the um CX experience.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but what are your main priorities at the moment, Michelle?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a big driver.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, consumer duty um is the one at the forefront at the moment.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: We can really see that driving the behaviour that I think you know it should be instilled in CX.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's about understanding the outcomes that our clients are looking for and what part to replay within that.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think for asset management, it's gonna be a little bit challenging to again.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I come back to the further away you are from the client of the end client, it becomes it becomes more difficult.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that that regulation is gonna push us in that direction and it's gonna bring us closer.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: It will provide us with more insight, which I think is gonna be integral.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've mentioned it before.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know the power behind a good client experience is a better understanding.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So if we can get that driven through upwards and be able to think more about that in our design, then I think ultimately, you know, the client will benefit.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Flipping that on the other side, I think things like ESG right now is is is a real focal point.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's more about then what do our clients need from us to be able to manage it within their organization.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's driving their, do they have a net zero, you know, that target that they're working towards?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we play a part in that?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that's the investment solution, whether that's the data, whether it, you know, whatever it may be.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think data and education actually are really coming out as key themes in this space.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's a hunger and appetite for more, and I think in some ways, more than less because people haven't quite worked out what they need.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a bit of grappling around what does that look like?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, yes, got TCFD and other facts coming through from regulation, but it's a moving beast, I find.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do think that that's driving again quite a lot of the behaviours we're seeing in this space.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So looking specifically at Abigo investors, can you talk us through what you think has been one of your biggest successes when it comes to improving client engagement?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, lots.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but no, I think there's probably a couple I'd pull out.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: The first one is we've really taken a look at our structures in in certain teams, and we've built out channel specialism.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So clients relationship that sits under me is a good example where you know we would have historically had a wholesale team and an institutional team.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: We've now kind of broken that down into wealth.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: We've got DB pension, DB DC in there, we've got insurance.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we're beginning to build specialism within our people to start to recognize the nuances that are very obvious between some of these channels.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I guess the other point that I'd make is around collaboration.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: We've spoken quite a lot about, you know, bringing the business with you, the business understanding, the part they play.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's bringing that to life.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So again, in the sales pitch, you know, my team are quite heavily involved now at the outset, making sure, and not just my team, but other parts of the business to ensure that when we're going in, that the client A fully understands what we can offer, but also that we're understanding what the client needs and we can manage expectations through that process.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you say to skeptics who are still adamant that the real CX in asset management comes from, say, the funder portfolio performance?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can't have a car without an engine.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I would be naive to sit here and say performance doesn't matter, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Of course it matters.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's the core of what we deliver to our clients.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's absolutely no doubt, and I would not question that.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think what it's about though, you know, you have a car, it's about personal taste.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, what how fast do you need it to go?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: What colour does it need to be?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want leather seats, do you want this, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: See it's about how do you create the fuller, I mentioned the fuller proposition, the package, everything that comes around it, and understanding what's important for a client within that.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of different drivers and motivation, whether that's regulation, their own internal targets and requirements.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, it's performance is going to be core, but I can see that there is a lot more decision making happening from our clients that's not just about where we're scoring on the performance delivery.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's about what more can we do.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: What culture do we have?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: How well aligned are we to them in our their diversity achievements?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot for a lot more questions out there that are being asked and we're being looked at for.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I do.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a bit of an antiquated view of what the asset management industry provides.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there is, you know, just this increasing recognition of quality, value, service that wraps around it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think that's kind of really where the industry has has got to and why we're seeing kind of or talking to some of these sort of core elements around sustainability and brand and kind of how we communicate better and more timely fashion through different digital channels.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think there's a lot that wraps around it, but you can't get away from the fact that you know the performance is is key alongside it.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: But where within an organization should the CX team sit?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's such a good question.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with the quick answer on this one.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it needs to be neutral, it needs to sit somewhere where it can truly challenge the activity that's taking place end to end.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I think it's, you know, you I would like to think that in the future asset management sees this as a place at the table at the exec.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's really what I, you know, I I look at other industries.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: You have many titles doing different things, but you know, that they're out there and chief client officer, whatever you want to call it, you know, they're all sitting and they've they've got a voice.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: The important thing for me is bringing the voice of the client into the core of the business, and that has to start at the top.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Here in the Beaver Investors, I'm lucky I sit um under the head of distribution who's the exec member, you know, and I have allowed voice into the exec.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very lucky to be able to be given the opportunity to go and present to them and have interaction with them directly on a regular basis.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when you look at other organisations, it sits in many different places and sometimes not even under one person taking that accountability, it's sitting in pockets within a business, which I think is where it does fail.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because I just don't think you bring that holistic view and an opportunity to really start to challenge.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: It is interesting, actually, to you to a point, like we know lots of different ways that different companies are doing it and trying to kind of coalesce the business around CX, whether that is pulling together key people, leadership members across different departments, or as you say, having a sort of dedicated function.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think maybe it's horses for courses, honestly.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, I think so long as whoever is spearheading it, whether whether it's a group or individuals, that they have teeth, that they're influential and they can make things happen.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: They're a culture carrier as well.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think so long as you understand your business well enough and the individuals well enough to make sure to your point, Michelle, that they are able to have a strong voice in the right environments and able to lead change.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think that has to be kind of a priority.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: And how you kind of do that within your business is maybe it can be sometimes quite unique, kind of company to company.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's fair.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's fair.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And look, again, we we've said it before, it comes down to the fact that you're only going to drive a good client experience with the business understanding the part that they play within it.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you're right.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's about being able to connect and being able to drive and have that influence.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I agree.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think that and that does change in many organizations.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: We know that.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: We've kind of looked at the what the customer experiences, the where it should sit, the how it should permeate throughout the organization.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: But what about the metrics and measurements of it?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do you gauge CX?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: I well, we see in talking to some clients that just this sort of every three years we'll send out a client satisfaction survey.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't think that's good enough.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think no, I think I I I I was reading the other day actually, you know, that the survey is dead was the title.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and look, I mean, again, I think there's a place, I still think there's some value, I think you can get through insights.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we did one not that long ago, and and and we really, you know, we personalised it ourselves.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: We had an exception member actually go out and talk to clients and it did give a different view.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I I yeah, look, I think it's about how do we drive real-time feedback, and there's opportunity always to do that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's about asking the right questions at the right time and then being able to bring that in.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I agree.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think different ways, different means, but we definitely need to evolve to that kind of historic.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go talk to them at one point in the year and make them talk to us about their onboarding experience five years ago because they're going to clearly, you know, remember that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we've looked at the past and the present, let's pivot towards the future.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: What do you feel is the next frontier for improving client engagement?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I come back to like I it's it's really about a connected experience.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's recognising that there's a person, and I think it's recognising the value of that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And regulation is gonna drive that, that's no doubt.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think that there will be some organizations that will tick the bots on regulation, and there will be others that recognize the value of what it's like trying to drive and see that that aligns to the value that they possibly already had, and that's where I think you'll see the leaders merging.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's gonna be flippant to go chatbots, but I guess that's probably what's now, isn't it?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Rather than what's next.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I um I guess I would come back to culture.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think we are seeing so much going on now about people, companies really looking to measure their culture and understand better how to be purposeful about it, and and I guess recognizing the influence that has on the customer, and so having to be much more strategic and thoughtful about how their culture informs the end-to-end journey for clients.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we're we're seeing that being much more strategic area that people are really focused around.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And as a final question to you both, do you have any sort of like thoughts or tips for our listeners when it comes to CX that perhaps we haven't managed to get through in our whirlwind tour of all things CX today?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm gonna keep it really short.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's about listening, not assuming.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that in the past, as an industry, we've assumed a lot around what our clients need and want and what motivates them.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think CX is about truly listening, understanding, and as you know, making the decisions around that that make sense for the client, with the client at the heart.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's not a lot I could disagree with that, but maybe combine that with data, because data can take away some subjectivity, um, which is helpful in your sort of conversations and influence internally.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can just point to the data.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah, can can be quite unemotional in terms of helping kind of drive this forward alongside the anecdotal, alongside um, you know, but really being close to the client, as you say, Michelle, really using your two ears rather than yeah kind of just assuming you know what's going on.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that brings us to the end of our very first episode of Two in Twenty.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: My thanks to Michelle and Twink for sharing their insights and expertise.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: If any of our listeners have any questions about the customer experience or any other topics in this podcast, please do get in touch using the contact details in the description.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can subscribe to Two and 20 through Apple Podcasts, GitHub Podcast, and Spotify.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: If there are any topics or investment marketers you would like Tune20 to cover, please do get in contact.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can also find episodes from our earlier podcasts in High on Google, Apple, and Spotify.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time.