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OCD is a liar and a thief, Part II (OCD)(Episode 18) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Marc & Stacee: Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. Marc & Stacee: Hi y'all, I'm Stacey. And along with my husband Mark, we want to thank you for Living Uncertain with us. As all of you know by now, this is the podcast that talks all things OCD and ERP related. And ⁓ welcome to episode 18. We are going to be discussing more of the topic that OCD is both a liar and a thief. This is part two. And ⁓ if you joined us last week, our topic was. Opening: and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, Marc & Stacee: All about how OCD is in fact both a liar and a thief and wants you to believe a truth that isn't true and can steal so much of your life. And ERP, as we've talked about, being the gold standard of treatment, can really bring back what you've lost. And last week you talked about how it was stole how it stole parts of your life. If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form. Opening: I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: ⁓ yes. Of course, absolutely. And what it did for you. Mm-hmm. And for part two, we thought we would talk about the other side, the spouse's perspective. Uh-huh. And what ⁓ your O C D, how it has stolen parts of our life as well. From our family. Our family. Yep. Yep. You know, so I I I'm gonna leave our us What it stole from us last. ⁓ interesting. And and we'll fast forward to to the kids. Okay. So some of the stuff that I recognized that it it had stolen from the kids was their ability to have freedoms around doing things like going on a walk by themselves as they got older, going out with friends, going to you know, do sleepovers if it wasn't a place that you did not know or you were not sure of. Yeah. And and when they came when they went out of your eyesight, it it became very traumatic for you. Yes. And your anxiety went through the roof. Yes. It definitely exceeded what typical normal parenting, mothering worry would be or is. Well, you wouldn't let them. Well, correct. And and I remember last in our last episode, what I talked about most was that it stole my mother's intuition. So I can't trust my mother's intuition. So I also have intrusive thoughts surrounding death. And so my intrusive thought would be if they're away and out of my eyesight, they're dead. I know that's very gruesome and macabre to say that, but it is just a straight up truth that that would be the intrusive thought. And so I held the kids back from doing a lot of the things that most children are able to do. And I don't know if they hold illy any ill will against you for that. That's something we're gonna have to ask them. Down the road. You know, I'm sure I'm sure that they they they are frustrated they got frustrated with ⁓ yeah. I know we know Miles did. Yeah. You know, he he even recently said it to us, you know, like all my friends get to stay out till, you know, wee hours of the night and dah da da, you know, well now he's eighteen and he gets to do what he wants, but He has helped though so much giving me the the ERP that I needed to get past that. And a lot of what we've done in therapy has involved the kids now because a lot of my intrusive thoughts were them related, if you will. And so we've come up with ways that they could participate, so to speak, in the ERP and know that this is a moment that I'm gonna have to just go through and live through and let the anxiety rise until it releases on its own and I and not in Gauge in the compulsions. And when you started the ERP, which was, you know, February, you know, almost two years ago now. Yeah. Yeah. Year and a half at least. And and Miles had not he he he was driving, but not a lot. Mm-hmm. You know, he was a new driver and and your anxiety around him driving, you know, you you knew you had to allow him to do it. He was working. Yes. But we weren't allowing him to drive at night necessarily or No, and and because when he was first driving, I remember thinking well now I can look back on it and realize that I was doing a lot of checking in with you for reassurance because I didn't l want my anxiety to go up because if he was in a car, he was not coming home. That was my that was that was my truth, which was not the truth, which is exactly what we're talking about. And so I know that what I would do is r get reassurance from you, check in, check in, check in to make sure that he was okay. And then I stopped engaging in that particular compulsion. So I had to let my anxiety go up and come back down. And he knew that that was happening. Mm-hmm. And still went out and drove and did things outside of school and and and those things definitely were They were ERP for you. Incredibly ERP for me and incredibly helpful at the on the other side of things, if you will, because now he is eighteen, he's about to go to college. And things have shifted in a pretty dramatic way, I think. For the better. I I do think that it has shifted. ⁓ you're not checking in with me, you're not checking three sixty to see where he's at. You're not you're not doing those things. You're you're I'm not forcing him to text me every ten to fifteen minutes. you know, or text us when you get there, that type of thing. It that that's not happening ⁓ as much. ⁓ You know, but there are there are some of the bigger pieces that I see that that he is still limited with. You know, some of the things like he says, like, ⁓ I want to go and go camping with my friends this summer. You know, and you know, you always kinda say, ⁓ no, no, no, no. And I don't know if that's because you don't want him gone overnight. No, the gone over night's not not the issue. Not anymore. No, not anymore. Ish. Ish. The camping one gets me though. The camping one I feel like if he goes camping, I'll never see him again. Yeah. So that is still part of the that ERP stuff that you probably would have you'll still have to do. Like he hasn't even driven out of town on his own. You know, he hasn't done a bigger Ew. A bigger trip per se, if you want to call it that. Like a driving Ew, that's not comfortable. But okay. But he hasn't driven on the the highways. He's driven on the freeways, but not the highways. I would be more comfortable with him doing that now than I would have been two years ago, certainly. Yeah. The the the the staying overnight in different places, especially something like camping. That definitely triggers me a little bit. And it triggers that feeling of or that OCD truth that won't stop looping, which is if I if he does that, he won't come back. And I do that with our daughter. Like our daughter is about to be 15. She's just started to take some walks around our neighborhood on her own. And my initial couple of times letting her do that, I was sitting in the I'll never see her again. Mm-hmm. She's never she won't come back. If I let her go, she won't come back. So like right now Miles can go out and about without any problems, but Avery can't. No. So you're you've moved one target to another. Yes. You know, just like Miles' graduation when the cousins came down and and Avery and them, they went walking into the crowd on the football field. So you lost sight of them. Your anxiety. My immediate thought, my truth became I'll I'm never seeing them again. Yeah. Which is just as bad as death. Yeah, that's basically what it is. It's basically she's gonna get killed or kidnapped or die somehow, or something's gonna happen. Like that's immediate truth for me, as irrational and silly as it sounds to everyone else. That's what OCD has done to me is it's lied and it's made the untruth very true. Yeah. So in that way our kids are shackled to shackled to the the inability to Yeah. To be able to go out and do things, you know. So that's that's that thief part. They're limited. And that is what has that has is what my OCD has stolen from them. You know, because absolutely. You know, I'm I'm I you know. 30 years older than Miles, you know, and you know, when I was his age, man, I I used to go camping all the time. And I know times have changed. Are we gonna talk about when you were s you were 18 now? Because that was like Yeah, three decades ago. Yes. Apparently that p that's what our kids say now. We're yeah, we're old. That's what the kids say now. You know, but you know, when I used to go camping all the time and I like, how did my parents just let me Jump in the without a cell phone, without three sixty, without all the technology we have. You know, three or four friends and we jump in, you know, my car and we would go almost every weekend. You know, but sounds like I'm gonna have to have more conversations with your mother, is what that sounds like. Yeah. In a good way in terms of how how did you do that and how can I? Because you know, and and ⁓ for me, like as a parent, I I I don't necessarily worry about Miles going, just his inexperience of doing it. Sure. Which is a normal parental worry. Yeah. I had at least experience. My parents went camping all the time. Yep. You know, that was yeah, and I mean you guys did too in different ways, you know, as well. But you know, my parents went camping all the time. So I had that experience. We don't do that with our kids per se. I mean, I've taken him a couple of times, but He's been little. You have any idea you have no idea what happened to me when you took him campaign. No. Yeah, man. But your mom was with you. Yeah. And you guys probably had to stay busy. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Because it it's not just anything like camping related, for example, that intrusive thought of you'll never come back isn't just exclusive to the kids. Like if you went camping, I'm thinking the same thing. If a friend of ours goes camping, I'm thinking the same thing. Like it's just a it's I I will tell you, I remember that that last one that Miles and I took when we went fishing. I had to get in the car, in the truck, and drive out of the canyon so that I could get cell service to give you a call to ⁓ you so you knew that we were okay. I know. And I really appreciated that. And I will say right here, ladies and gentlemen, that is absolute true love. And that is why I am still standing here today in the most successful spot. That I've ever been in because if it were not for this man to go through this journey with me, I would not be where I am. So more evidence and more kudos to you, babe, because you did have that. But what I should have done was just let what I would do now is just let you sit in it. Out of love. Yes. Still true love. And have you go through that feeling. It made me feel better if you said it. True love. Thank you. So in in in in hindsight, that that's a lot of the things that I I see that have been stolen from the kids. Yes. They had to be basically, you know, that monkey backpack that you put on a little toddler so they don't run away from you. With a leash. With a leash. Yours was an invisible monkey backpack, you know. With a leash. Still. Yeah. I mean, graduation was only two, three weeks ago. And okay. You know, you were you were freaking out with Avery walking away. Yes. And I had no issue with Miles though. He was out there living his best life with everyone else, and I was great with it. Because it wasn't until Avery walked away and I couldn't see her. And then immediately the intrusive thought was, ⁓ my god, I'm never gonna see her again. You've done the ERP with Miles. Right. But we have not done the ERP with Avery. Well, guess what? And we're going to be Doing that. We're going on vacation. We are. We're actually gonna take a vacation. We haven't taken a vacation in a long time. Over Would you like to tell seven? Tell our listeners why we haven't been on many vacations? Because what's happened on vacations when we've gone on them. Yeah. So vacations are this is this is the part for me that's kind of been a thief is the ability to enjoy vacations because For myself, I was always trying to do damage control. Well, there was always a lot of checking in. Always no, it was checking in, making sure everything was okay, making sure that you felt good. Well, then I was always checking in with you to make sure that everything was okay. But then in in turn, you check in with me. I was always checking in, trying to check in with you first. ⁓ and the plot thickens everybody. And to make sure that you were okay because I knew you can see that patients were Never good. Right. You know, yeah, we went to Costa Rica seven years ago. Mm-hmm. Now I think that was the last. Mm-hmm. Besides going on the Colorado River, you know, for for those those days. That was like the last real vacation or vacation that we've done. Yeah. And You know, even with Miles and I going zip lining and stuff, you know, that was a big piece. Like Well, 'cause if you do that, you won't come home. Yeah. Like there's always that that component to my particular O C D, which is that that's an intrusive thought and a and a lie that's been told to me by my O C D. ⁓ of course there's many other facets to my O C D which we've kind of explored in this podcast. ⁓ But that's one that still comes up a lot. And you're right. It's it's better with Miles now, but with Avery it's still very difficult. Which then makes vacations very un unenjoyable for me. And I know they're not enjoyable for you. But they're not enjoyable for me. Like I mean, we went and you know, was it last summer, summer before when we went to San Diego so that we could go sailing? Yes. I remember the first night in the hotel or first twenty seconds in the hotel room, we were having a fight. Because I was having a meltdown. O C D based meltdown. Completely anxiety anx anxiety driven meltdown, yes. Yeah. Because you went sail in the ocean. Yep. For the first time. And in my brain, he would go out in that. Water and he wasn't coming back. Man, y'all, this is so here we are, here we are coming up. We have a 10-day vacation that we plan on going on. Mm-hmm. So myself We are taking ERP on the road, y'all. We're going to have to because this vacation is going to be enjoyable for all of us. I agree. So here's the deal. Our Miles is not going on this trip. No. This is you and I and Avery going on this trip. Because Miles this is the other piece of it. Now everybody's sitting there going, Well, why aren't you taking your other kid? Because you know, he you know, he should be able to be part of that family trip too and everything. Well, he's going to Washington, DC. Yes. Before we even get home. Which is ERP enough for me. Really? So he's gotta get himself to the airport, get on the plane. It's a school event still. I mean, because he won first place for his fashion design stuff in the States. So now he's going to compete nationally. Right. And they're leaving before we get back. And he's there for five or six days. Mm-hmm. So that part right there alone is going to be ERP that that day that he's supposed to leave. Him not even being with us. Yes. He's gonna be at home. ⁓ Yeah. So we're gonna have that layer. Like you say, ⁓ I'm gonna be fine with it. I'm gonna be fine with him. I'm gonna be fine with him. I want to be y'all listen, I want to be so much. And I'm prepared for the challenges that OCD will still bring to my life, but I'm better armed to handle them. And I see the benefit of the ERP and I want it. And so I'm going to do it. That's why I know this vacation will be more enjoyable. I agree. And and there probably will be times that you're gonna be needing to practice ⁓ I that that ERP everyone's gonna be able to listen to that is because we're taking like I said, we're taking the ERP on the road. Yeah. You know, so we'll be fun. You know, and then also on top of it, you know, the reason why we're doing this trip is because You know, Avery has a friend that lives in Canada that she hasn't met. And so we're gonna drive to drive visit them. Yep. Yep. And in turn, they're gonna want to do things. Ew. And she might not be in your eyesight. Ew. But what's the one thing you always ask her before she does something? ⁓ It's please don't take that away from me. Well though this this is going away. What's the one thing on now? If I see it loud though, then that means that that's part of a of a compulsion that I probably am engaging in. You absolutely are engaging in a compulsion. You know it. Come on, come on. I but I've gotten rid of so many others. I know, but you still have a lot to go through. Ugh. Okay. is your phone charged? Yep. It's important. Well Joe needs to call us. It absolutely is important, but it's not the end all. Once again, I would go camping without a phone. And I made it back. In the 1900s. She knows our phone numbers. Listen, I get it. The logical part of my brain takes over now. And I can enjoy and live in the moment and live uncertain as we teach others to do in this podcast. I get it. But I do. It's like an automatic response to ask her. And I don't even ask Miles anymore if his charg is h if his phone is charged. I always just only ask her. No, you've gone through ERP with him. And now I have to go through with her. Yeah. She's about to be fifteen. She's going into high school. There are gonna be things coming up for her that I know I will want to hold her back from doing. And I don't wanna do that. Because I know how many things I held myself back from doing. At her age, like we've talked about this too. About 15 was about when I started to notice my O C D symptoms. And I held myself back from doing a lot of things in my younger years, in my twenties and thirties. And I don't want to see that for them. I am now just experiencing life for the first time. And I And we don't want to do that for them either. We don't. I I no. And Avery deals with anxiety herself too. Yes. And so this is a big deal. Yes. For her to be able to go. You know, I mean, she went to a birthday party with friends that she didn't with people she didn't know. That was a big step. That was a huge step for her. You know, and but she she stayed the full two and a half hours and you know, made it through it. She did. You know, so there there's No, this is ⁓ again, we've talked about this in therapy and at home and and ⁓ on this podcast most likely, which is that this is not just for me to go through this journey and to overcome. It is for the betterment of you and for our kids, our marriage and our family. And that's been my biggest priority since day one. So that's I think the that's one piece that has taken away from them. Yes. The inability what it's stolen from them. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And now the other piece that I I have recognized over the years, and this is your people pleasing compulsion. Ew. And it was people pleasing your boss. Instead of asking for time off to go to kids' events ⁓ at school. Mm-hmm. A the driving piece. Mm-hmm. Stole that from them. Mm-hmm. And then your inability to or your, you know, you didn't you didn't want to upset your boss. Mm-hmm. And to ask for time off. Mm-hmm. And use part of your PTO to go watch or play or whatever it was. And You know, they received awards or I missed a lot of their you you live early childhood moments like that. Yeah, you you live their childhood moments through pictures. Yeah, I do. You're right. That's also very painful. I could start to cry almost thinking about that. I know that's a hard one. ⁓ but you're right. I I constantly wanted to please people in my life, my boss being number one way back when. And then when I became the boss, I went the other direction. Yeah. And I started people pleasing the employees so much that it became a slippery slope for me to then come back from. Yeah, because you're allowing them to go and do people pleasing has stolen I can't even tell you how much. The the the people pleasing and the need to leave things just right if I'm texting, emailing, or talking to someone, those moments s have stolen so much. And I don't wanna and I don't want to do that anymore. No, and for you and I. ⁓ You know, here we go. There's a big one. Let's talk about you. But like that people pleasing. Yeah. You're always doing things to make sure I was good. Of course. And and everybody out there listening going, Wow, that would be great if my spouse just, you know, agreed with everything that I, you know, wanted to do or needed or what you know. Yes, that sounds wonderful, but then there's some resentment on the back end. Yeah. There there's resentment, you know, like purchasing a boat. Yeah, go ahead and do it. But I know there's resentment on the back end of it. After doing it. Because the people pleasing after I would do or say something that was not in either not in my best interest or not something that I felt was a good idea or or I had a difference of opinion or or whatnot and felt completely paralyzed to share any of that. But how many times would I check in with you to make sure, are you you sure about this? You sure about this? You're sure about And I would always say yes. And then on the other side I would think, well I have no voice. That's the other thing that O C D steals from you. It steals your voice. Especially those of us who have a people pleasing or just right tendency in that way. It completely stole my voice. I had no opinion of my own. I had no thoughts of my own. I had no way of sharing what I really wanted because what I wanted was inconsequential. So you thought. Well, that was another lie that O C D told me. Yeah. Yeah, we could do this like part three, part four, part five kind of thing, because really this is a a lot of what happens is OCD tells you a truth that isn't actually true. And then unfortunately steals. It does. And then maybe later it comes out that you weren't necessarily happy that a decision that I might have made or a choice that that I had made because you didn't want to. So then that becomes upset, and then it became a fight. That became a conflict between you and I. Yeah. Yes. It it definitely would become a conflict. ⁓ you know, different the other aspects of it is, you know, you and I wouldn't like I would have an opinion, and then your people pleasing side of it would override that pivotal moment for for ⁓ that opinion, such as maybe. getting rid of certain people or whatever. We're talking about the business again. Yeah. Which is fine. And and that's true. That you had strong opinions about different ways of of handling the employees and the business itself. And I could never get there. It was just it I was the idea of not people pleasing or the idea of not leaving a conversation just right. And oftentimes that meant I was giving in to something that I shouldn't have been giving into or I was not expressing myself the way I wanted to because that was my way of feeling like, okay, I've left it just right and that is better than anything else. And it's since learned. It's not like we didn't terminate people's employment there. We did. We after we bought it, we terminated two of our front office managers. We did or two front office people. Did but That was because the front office manager wanted that to happen, so you wanted to please her. Mm-hmm. Now granted it needed to happen. It they were not they weren't they weren't being affected. ⁓ In my mind, it became more a way of pleasing our office manager versus doing what was actually in the best interest of our company. And so what stole from me was your voice. Was my voice. I always felt like you you prioritized them and their opinions over mine when we were supposed to be doing that together. And that was that's a true statement. And in that three years was a very difficult time. Worst three years of our life. Yeah. Let's just we're gonna just put it out there in the world. It was our business ownership years, the three years we owned the company that we did, that was the absolute worst three years of our life. It was a dumpster on fire going down a river. Over a waterfall into three feet of water below. So but we learned a lot. And A, you know, the biggest thing that came out of it was my diagnosis. Your diagnosis and your treatment. That those were that was the best thing that could ever have come from this. One hundred percent. And to be truthful and just real. Every day since Has been the best days that we've ever had. Yep. If those three days, if those three years were the worst, every day since those three has been the absolute best that we've ever had. For me personally, for our children, for our marriage, everything. Yeah. And a lot of it I don't think I take because you have gone through ERP. Yeah. And you're you you're still going through it. ⁓ yeah. Hence our vacation coming up. You're it's gonna happen. I'm aware. It it is absolutely going to happen. I know it. ⁓ unsure at the time that I want it, but I do know what's on the other side. But you know where it's coming from too. And I also know where it's coming from. And I also know that it's helping me rewire my brain in a new way that is going to enhance my life and the lives of the people I live the most. You know, it's that boogeyman that's knocking at your door. ⁓ yeah. You know, but you still have those little safety chains. I do. And I still have to think about checking in with you. And I still have to fight that compulsion. And in a later podcast, I want to talk about mental compulsions because those are the ones that I've had to keep myself the most accountable for because those are the ones that are most invisible. invisible to everyone else. Yeah. And I have created kind of a system for myself based on the the tools and the techniques we've learned in therapy. And I really do truly try to keep myself as accountable as possible when those when I find that those mental compulsions start to ramp up. So it's gonna be fun. Here we go. You know, AR son's gonna be home. Ugh. He's gonna be going on a trip on his own. Yeah, just keep saying it out loud because that really daughter's gonna be potentially out of your sight. Ew. Especially when she gets together with her friend. Ew. Not the friend part, just the I don't want her out of my sight. Especially w she's not only gonna be out of my sight, she can be out of sight in a city that we don't know very well. Yeah. Ew. Not fun. It's okay. But you're but you're ready for the challenge. And that's why I know this will probably be one of the best vacations we've had because you are gonna be ready for that challenge. Yes. You you you have the tools in your toolbox to tackle that anxiety. You know, and and and graduation you you you did it a little bit? I I absolutely engaged in a compulsion during graduation because I've followed them. You start you but you started to to try to allow your anxiety to go up. I did. I did. But then you went into the compulsion. And I followed them more than I was ready to ask you if they were okay. I knew I couldn't ask you because I knew what you would say. Yeah. Which I bet if we turn once your listeners could recite it to you. But once again, but once again, we always talk about there's a time and a place to practice ERP. Correct. And when there's, you know, a thousand people standing on a football field, it is probably not the place to allow your anxiety and a panic attack to happen. Mm-hmm. True. In front of all those people. That is so true. ⁓ see that makes me feel a little bit better. Okay. ⁓ you now you're just like Saying, ⁓ it's okay because of So we're just I'll just make sure that we're never outside of at least a thousand people the whole time we're on hundreds. But I do know that that's something that that I have to watch as well. Yes. It's the ⁓ you know, how many people are around, what's sure you know, what's going on. Because if if it's not a safe thing, then we don't do it. I agree. And and and that's why there's so much trust between you and I too in this journey that I know you are just on top of it as I am or try to be. And I think that the idea that I have this partner, y'all, that is so willing to take this huge step forward with me and to be consistent with me is so unique that I really encourage other partners of people with OCD out there to I don't know how to finish that statement, honestly, but it just I feel so Do the journey together. Compelled to say something that it's just been so life-altering in the most and best of ways. And I couldn't have done it without my partner, my husband, this man sitting across from me right now, who has been incredibly instrumental in this for me. And the fact that he's still talking about his awareness of it and when it's okay to do ERP and when it's not, or when there's grace and when there's not, or when it's, you know, he's gonna manufacture some ERP for me and I and and I trust that and I know where it's coming from now. Love. Yes. And it is. It's just it's I can't tell you from the person who has OCD and who has dealt with it for so long to what I feel having a partner willing to do this with me. I I wish the whole world could experience this. And I and I hope that that a lot of other couples going through what we've been through can do this together. Now, I don't have O. C. D. I've never claimed to have O C D. I don't know what what goes through your mind or how you feel. I can only imagine. Mm-hmm. And that's that's a hard You know, or I take my own personal stuff and go, okay, this is you know, this is the struggles that she's dealing with, or kind of have that same type of feeling. And I know it's like tenfold because I've watched what O C D has done to you. You know, your panic attacks, your anxiety, how debilitating it has been. You know, I have never claimed to have any type of O C D. ⁓ and Anybody that's out there, that partner, that's probably the hardest thing to see somebody go through that treatment or go through that diagnosis of O C D. You know, it's just like somebody that's going through cancer. You know, you unless you've been through it yourself, you have no idea. And you can't just have a little bit of cancer. You can't just have a little bit of O C D to either you have it or you don't. You know, and and that That piece is the hard one. Like when we hear people say, ⁓ I have O C D too, you know. No, you don't. Yeah. That's a bunch of bullshit. That's a really hard one for me too. I'll I'll admit that. You know, that's bullshit. You don't have O C D ⁓ a few times lately. Especially when we talk about your you know, we share about your story. ⁓ I have O C D no, you don't. That that's bullshit. You know, it's just like You feel very strongly about that. No, I do because it's like, you know And it's true. It's it It is very true. And that's again what makes it the most misunderstood mental health diagnosis out there. And it's very disrespected in a lot of ways. And and to those of us who suffer the debilitating piece of it the way that we do, and I know there are so many of us out there, it becomes a real challenge. That becomes an extra challenge and an extra frustration for us to have to deal with. ⁓ because it is so misunderstood. Yes. From what it actually is. Yes. And what it can be, because whatever your mind can think up, it's there. OCD is right there. It can be there. To tell you. And your targets changed constantly because it was on Miles. Now it's on Avery. And it was on the girls. And now it's on, you know, other people. And it it's constantly changing. Absolutely. And and it's like w what Bullseye are you shooting for at that moment? And and for me as as your partner, your your s you know, that's the hardest thing to try to figure out where it's going to be tarting. Because, you know, I'm always having to, you know, that's where I feel like it's I'm trying to figure out what is it trying to attach onto. You know, it's like ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. And we've said this before too. We're a lot more than just ⁓ this diagnosis. Like I am more than that diagnosis. Mark is more than what this diagnosis has done and meant to him, our family is as well. We have so much to be grateful for and we're very blessed and and and there's so many things that we have going on in our life. But this journey has become so impactful. It it has prompted us to start this community of living uncertain. And ⁓ and we want to try try to build on that community. So we've we've developed ⁓ an Instagram and we're trying to put different things on our Instagram that are impactful to people and Facebook, yes. Podcast underscore living uncertain, so that we can continue Helping and building this community of those of us who live with OCD and those who have partners ready and willing to stand by them and and help the process as much as they can. And I know there's other people out there that that are advocates for OCD. And you know, we just want to be able to help. ⁓ my gosh. We absolutely we just want to help build. We herald those of you who are out there building your own platforms. We champion you. We are excited to be a part of that community alongside of you all and ⁓ hopefully we can make an impact. And that's because it is so misunderstood. Yeah. We need to bring awareness to it. Absolutely. So once again, everybody, thank you for living uncertain with us. Thank you for listening. Okay. Have a until next time.