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Talks to Mark Rawlins about The Savages (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a plump pen mic for doing quicker, quicker.
0:40
Yes, I am going to defeat you, just as I always defeat the
0:45
Daleks. Welcome back to a hamster with a
0:50
blump and Knife, the Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
0:54
Hello. Hello.
0:56
How are you doing? I'm very well.
0:58
Look here, I've got a question for you.
1:01
Straight away, straight in there, this particular story,
1:05
The Savages. Yes, what was a fucking odd
1:09
choice? Why don't you pick this one?
1:11
We can't even watch it move in. Well, I think it's quite
1:14
interesting doing a missing story.
1:17
Towards the end of season three, I feel like it's very sort of
1:20
forgotten time of Doctor Who because of these, you know, like
1:25
the savages of smugglers. People don't really talk about
1:28
that at that end, about that, because I was going to call this
1:30
like the Bermuda Triangle of Doctor Who.
1:33
It is like this, like period where nobody talks about.
1:39
I think it's the ones you just made.
1:40
Savages. Smugglers.
1:42
And to Highlanders to extent as well, yeah, but they do talk
1:46
about the gunfighters, the war machines and the 10th planet.
1:51
But those other three are almost completely forgotten about, and
1:56
I think they've all got charms. Yeah, absolutely.
1:59
Yeah. I think that's what interests me
2:01
about them that you there isn't as much talk about it and
2:05
there's obviously because they're missing we have don't
2:07
really have much of the savages at all just the telesnaps and
2:10
the audio. Can I drop my first of my
2:13
absolutely fascinating facts? Okay.
2:15
Well, because John Walls was not interested in telesnaps which is
2:19
why there's that whole period that would be in the middle of
2:22
season three where there's no telesnaps for the stories that
2:24
are missing. I know which.
2:26
Is Dalek's master plan. If they all had telesnaps, we
2:29
could have fabulous still images of episode seven of Dalek's
2:33
master plan. That woman's screaming red off
2:35
in the Hollywood Place. Well, we do have actually one of
2:38
those, don't we? But that's not an official
2:40
telesnap. But this was the first story
2:43
where John Kira was commissioned to do telesnaps right the way
2:47
through until the mind robber. Because Jerry Davis was much
2:52
more interested in in having like a visual images for the
2:55
story. We thank God because otherwise
2:58
we don't have the soundtrack to go by air.
3:00
And that would be a lot. Okay, I've got a question about
3:04
the Telesnaps in. Would you find that you can sort
3:06
of piece together how the story looks from, you know, 100 still
3:12
images? I mean, they're not always the
3:14
best images, are they? So this one, I think they're
3:17
pretty good. Actually, yeah.
3:19
I mean, they're sometimes they can be a bit hit and miss, but
3:21
it's better than nothing, isn't it?
3:23
You might have a few behind the scenes or publicity photos, but
3:28
imagine if we just didn't have and it was so lucky to have
3:32
telesnaps as Doctor Who fans. Everybody.
3:35
We're all lucky, everybody, aren't we?
3:37
And we're all lucky that we've got all these, all the sound.
3:40
Imagine if there's a Doctor Who story, those, because that's
3:42
fans. So that's plugging in their TV.
3:44
Somebody who's put a radio up against, yeah.
3:46
That's just fans. That's not official.
3:48
Yeah, none of that is official. So that's even more like the
3:51
geeks. I mean, yeah, absolutely.
3:53
Because imagine if there was like the savages or something
3:55
like that where we had what there's like 2 publicity photos.
4:00
It's always that same one. In it you've got the Savage and
4:02
William Hart. No audio with his reacting
4:04
vibrator. Yeah, no audio and no Tele
4:07
stamps. All we would have is, well, we'd
4:08
have the novelization or the script.
4:11
And trying to piece that together, we'd all be a
4:14
conventions going to Peter Purvis.
4:16
Remember what did what happened in this one.
4:18
Tell us exactly draw it. Draw what you saw.
4:21
Tell us the colors of everything.
4:23
Tell us what it looked like now. Oh my God, I can't get word in
4:26
it. Before Peter Purvis would be
4:29
exactly the same. You feel like this ginger bloke
4:32
came up to me and started attacking me with a bit of
4:34
paper? And everybody in these 60s
4:35
episodes would be like, I have no idea.
4:37
I just went to work for like one day 50 years ago.
4:39
I cannot tell you everything. I had.
4:41
Can you tell, can you tell me what you had for lunch 10 years
4:44
ago at work? No, exactly.
4:47
What are you suggesting? I get somebody to take 10 still
4:51
images a day of my life so I can remember what's going on every
4:54
day. Joe Ford's tennis naps.
4:58
They'd be very boring. It'd actually just be me eating
5:00
and wanking, I'll tell you. Oh.
5:03
My God, imagine if they had like Instagram and stuff and they
5:06
were making Dalek's master plan. You'd have all selfies of the
5:08
delegates. We'd know exactly what makeup
5:11
today of if you know I've been so coffee I've.
5:14
Got to send Trace, you imagine. I had episode two of Savages
5:17
came out. Yeah, if Twitter was around, I
5:20
mean around much longer at this rate, it'd be like the doctor's
5:23
going to change, the doctor's going to die is.
5:25
I mean, if being sucked off inside that machine, what's
5:28
going on? They want to be speculating who
5:31
the next Doctor Who is going to be, and will it be Frederick
5:34
Jaeger? Well, there's so much to talk
5:36
about this. Doctor Who set reports will be
5:37
like mocked by a savage. So now we go live to Jackie Lane
5:43
and the latest set of Doctor Who.
5:45
Doctor Who Confidential. Oh my God, imagine.
5:48
Well, when I got the script for this one, I was so excited to
5:52
look up and. Ah, Stephen, that's a savage.
5:55
And I think viewers are going to be in for a treat.
5:58
I don't know who this is, Jackie's Jackie Lane or not.
6:00
They're going to be in for a treat because I think everyone
6:02
thinks we're going back in time. But there's more to it than
6:05
that. You went from like American to
6:08
Russian to somewhere north of Devon.
6:11
Just then, Jackie Lane's got a very changeable accent.
6:15
The savages here we are at, Is it French and Ponds?
6:18
Yeah, French and ponds, where Peter Purvis is filming his last
6:21
episode of Doctor Who. I would love a Doctor Who
6:23
confidential for the William Hart or Times.
6:25
Imagine you'd have William Hart or in the background being all
6:27
racist, wouldn't you? Now look, actually, before we're
6:32
5 minutes in already, we barely talked about the savages.
6:35
Well, we were just saying, This is why I chose.
6:38
I said, can we do the savages? Because I think, yeah, there's a
6:41
lot. To uncover about it.
6:42
There's not just people don't know about it, I don't think.
6:44
And I think it would be more obviously more highly regarded
6:48
if this is being found or we even if we had one episode.
6:51
I think people, people think that your choices, you know, are
6:55
very enjoyable because you go for the Chase Battlefield,
6:59
Android Invasion, and Altern #2 BBV spin off.
7:03
I mean, they're always very interesting choices though,
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aren't they? Yeah, I just want to say, right,
7:09
Because, you know, I just said about Harlem being racist just
7:11
then. So I learned a fact about this
7:14
this very morning when I went on to the tardy wiki page, All hail
7:17
Tardy's Wiki page, about the fact that this was supposed to
7:24
mirror apartheid in South Africa.
7:29
And originally, all of the elders were going to be in
7:34
blackface. Well, I was glad they didn't do
7:37
that. That would have been awkward.
7:38
But there is Frederick Jaeger. No, Frederick Jaeger is in
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blackface. You look in the telesnaps and
7:44
the publicity pictures. He has got like a dog, a hue to
7:47
his face. I thought he was gold.
7:50
I don't know why. I just thought he was gold.
7:51
Or they've given them a shimmer like that.
7:54
It's not. Well, it is a bit obvious.
7:56
In some of them, they do. It's like how people don't talk
7:59
about that because people are like, oh, the crusade, you can't
8:02
do that. You know that in the Crusade is
8:03
bad. What was the other one?
8:06
This. Probably this okay, but let's be
8:08
honest, have they gone down this approach?
8:10
This would have been the most offensive.
8:11
What's the? Other one that everyone talks
8:14
about, the Crusade and Talents wing.
8:17
Chiang Talents, Wing Chiang, stuff like that.
8:20
But again, this. It is obvious there in the
8:24
Telesnaps now. You said it.
8:25
Yeah. Doesn't get talked about.
8:27
No. And why wouldn't they just hire
8:29
a black actor? Oh, we've been here before.
8:30
Well, again, that's, you know, the crusade and other things as
8:33
well, but it does seem to be as well though.
8:36
You know, when you talk about these things, people go well, it
8:38
was the 60s. That's an excuse just because it
8:41
was set in the 60s. But I can see in the storyline
8:45
what they were trying to do, the way that they're saying again
8:48
they were doing when they that's a.
8:49
Very strong idea point in power or dehumanizing the the lower
8:53
costs. And you can apply this to stuff
8:56
happening today. In all sorts of areas as well
8:59
all sorts. Of areas of life as well.
9:01
It's it's. Did you not see that interview
9:03
with what's his name? Rooney.
9:05
Sonak. Rishi Sonak.
9:08
That fellow had a bit of a weird crush on him once.
9:11
Now he's, you know, destroyed the entire country.
9:15
It's kind of taken the edge off him a little bit.
9:17
It's anyway sorry what he said. Oh yeah, Well, you know, I've
9:24
got middle class friends. I've got lower class friends.
9:27
And then his dad steps in and he goes, oh sorry, no, I didn't
9:30
mean I've got lower class friends.
9:32
There is definitely a division of power, you know, and how the
9:38
the people on the top tier kind of suck the life out because
9:42
it's certainly happening financially at the moment that
9:44
the people in power, they're using politics to very serious,
9:49
I don't know, to manipulate. Essentially the people that
9:54
don't have any money are being taxed to buggery and that money
9:57
is feeding into the system which is being manipulated.
10:01
So it's funneled towards people that have got a ton of money.
10:04
And because this is Doctor Who, they're literally being sucked
10:07
from there. Well, that's.
10:08
Doctor Who? You know, doctors who take a,
10:11
you know, a normal analogy and turn it into something science
10:14
fictiony. And is this Ian Stewart Black's
10:16
first script? Yeah, I do.
10:19
You know what I think? Ian Stewart Black.
10:21
He's not really interested. I mean, I don't think Doctor Who
10:23
had a formula at this point anyway, but he's Doctor Who's
10:27
singularly unique, aren't they? But this is a bit different to
10:32
your standard Doctor Who. I think macro terror is I.
10:34
Think it's very refreshing and it's a very short period of
10:37
time. It's this period of time because
10:38
he goes straight to the war machines.
10:39
He writes that as well, and he writes macro terror.
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He's very. I think maybe.
10:47
Well, war machines is great. War machines is a.
10:50
How much? I don't know how much of that
10:51
is. Is the producer sort of input
10:53
into what later becomes Earthbased stories?
10:57
But hey, Mark, I dig your fab gear.
11:00
Fab. Yeah, what should.
11:02
We start and then we'll carry on talking.
11:04
Yeah, OK. Of course, when we get going.
11:07
Listeners, we are obviously this is missing.
11:09
We're not watching it. Well, we're watching the loose
11:11
cannon reconstruction. Are amazing.
11:13
Thank you very much. If you need, I mean we'll, and I
11:16
thoroughly recommend the loose cannon reconstruction you can
11:18
find online until obviously on the DVD's and Blu Rays they are
11:23
bringing out more official reconstructions, but until they
11:26
until they come out. Go to loose cannon.
11:28
So I know some people that prefer the loose cannon
11:30
reconstructions over the animations, you know?
11:33
I mean, it depends if you want the actual.
11:34
OK, I'm gonna press play now everyone 321.
11:36
It depends if you want. I mean, I can see the appeal of
11:41
the telly snaps and actually once you get into them, because
11:43
I was doing this for my podcast, we went through all the telly
11:45
snaps for the ones you know and I hadn't.
11:48
And you know, stuff like the savages.
11:49
Again, not publicized particularly well.
11:51
Maybe were they in Doctor Magazine or something they
11:53
wouldn't. Maybe at some point.
11:54
No, don't. Really.
11:55
They were they. They had a number of issues
11:58
where they had him in the middle and they had the archive in the
12:01
middle between them. But I don't know if they did all
12:03
of the stories, and I think there's a lot of focus on the
12:05
Patrick Trout and missing episodes.
12:07
My God, Moving Pictures. So.
12:09
We are where what we just had, we've just had the gunfighters
12:13
and we we've just had the gunfires and the doctors saying
12:15
we're in a fabulous age of peace and prosperity.
12:18
So clearly he's been here before.
12:20
Well, it's this sort of general. What's the word?
12:26
How do you describe it? Just to sort of say we are
12:28
ready. No, a lot of this happens in a
12:30
lot in the 60s, especially with William Hartnell, where he'll
12:33
just say this big sweeping statement to get us into the
12:36
next story we've landed in. Or what is it?
12:39
10th planet, the coldest place on Earth?
12:41
Sorry to them. It's like next week.
12:43
We're in the future of General. He's literally just making it up
12:47
somewhere. We've been dragged down.
12:49
Dragged down to what? Oh, can I just say right,
12:53
because we're going to talk a lot about dodo in this.
12:55
Yeah man, oh man, they write or. It's been a bit precocious in
12:59
this, don't they? But I think that's great if our
13:02
character and get because we don't have these stories or
13:05
people don't preach what we see them in the gunfight as and the
13:08
Ark we know we're from, don't we?
13:10
But we don't really get to see her.
13:12
Tory Maker, I think this is a great story for her.
13:15
I think another strongest. She's going maker is not a good
13:18
she gets to be super, no strongest, doesn't she?
13:20
And she isn't just oh another sort of fill in companion around
13:24
this time that goes in and out and doesn't last very long.
13:27
She's I think she's braver than Vicky.
13:32
She's Vicky's pretty brave, you know.
13:34
Yeah, I know, but but I think Doe doing this investigating a
13:37
bit later on. She does a bit more than that.
13:40
Well, I love the fact that she goes into this, you know,
13:43
loving, civilized society. And she's a bit.
13:44
And she ain't impressed from the off.
13:46
No, she's going. I'm going to investigate that
13:48
every dark corridor until I find out what your CD secrets are.
13:52
She's. I think she's better than Polly
13:54
in some ways. What, you think there's better
13:57
than Vicky and she's got? Other elements to her where she
14:01
would investigate and she would stand up and say something.
14:04
I don't. I think Vicky wouldn't.
14:06
Talk back to people how Dodo does.
14:08
I don't think Polly would be as interested or really care or
14:13
when they're walking around the city or something.
14:15
I think you know Polly or Victoria or someone would just
14:18
wouldn't really care. But Dodo's like, hang on,
14:19
there's something going on here and investigates.
14:22
We want, although, a bit more time with her.
14:24
Can I just bring a semblance of sanity to what you're talking
14:27
about for a second? Because she can be a bit
14:30
overbearing, though, can't she? She's not really lucky when
14:33
she's all like, you know, are you hiding something?
14:36
You know, I like that about her. I just said to Stephen a minute
14:39
ago, you know, she goes, you don't have to do everything, he
14:42
says. You know.
14:43
You know he's not your master. It's.
14:46
Written like that, and it's the way that it's the way she plays
14:49
it. She's written with Stephen.
14:50
It's a bit like, oh, Stephen's like, oh, dodo, come on like a
14:53
child. In episode 2, I'll tell you now,
14:56
he goes about four times. Look, if there's trouble to be
15:00
found, don't. I would have found it.
15:02
So, like, he's got to a point now where he's like, oh, this
15:04
bloody woman. She goes off, you know, doing
15:07
her own thing, being a bit of a rebel.
15:10
And here we are on location. Unusual.
15:13
Or unusual for this time, this amount of location work.
15:16
Because actually, even with Steven, what did they have any
15:18
in Dallas? Monster plan?
15:19
No, I don't know. I don't think I don't.
15:22
Think that hardly any and dodos only all in the war machines.
15:24
The beginning. We just had a fucking western,
15:26
right? And they didn't go outside for
15:28
the western, they could have shot this in this quarry for the
15:32
western. Whereas now we've got which
15:36
technically could have been Studio, couldn't it?
15:38
I think. I think just the bits with the
15:41
TARDIS of the quarry, with the running is and these close-ups
15:44
with the savages savages, this I can imagine.
15:47
It's all very very small. Tiny corner of the studio, lots
15:51
of shrubbery. Do you remember when Peter
15:53
Purves was watching season 14 with Sophie Aldrid in the
15:57
Blu-ray sets? And he's very upset because
16:00
there's all the location work and he goes we're not location
16:03
once and that's in my last story, which is this, these very
16:06
strange helmets that the cars are wearing.
16:08
And you've got these cars. They look a bit like robo men to
16:10
me. They do, do they?
16:11
And it's it's not usually faces. I don't think so.
16:15
And are they all supposed to be made-up?
16:17
Is that what you're what? No, I don't know.
16:19
No, they haven't. Here in these pictures.
16:21
I don't know. May I just say yeah, showing no
16:27
signs that he's on his last legs.
16:29
William Hartler's Dr. in this Fucking sublime in this.
16:33
Because again, this is another misconception about this end of
16:36
the end of season 30. He's a bit tired What they
16:39
started writing him out when did it happen?
16:41
So around Dark's monster plan, he started disappearing more and
16:44
more. Well, in so 11 of Dark's master
16:47
planning, he's not in it no at all.
16:49
And I think that's where it's starting, isn't it?
16:51
And obviously Celestial Toymaker, they're thinking, how
16:54
can we get rid of him? Gunfire is not so much and then
16:57
here, but we need to talk about this here because when he's put
17:02
in that machine in Episode 2, and then Frederick Yeager is
17:07
effectively playing the Doctor in episode three, that
17:10
absolutely could have been a way to remove William.
17:13
Well, they're obviously looking for ways, yeah, they've actually
17:16
it's. Interesting, isn't it?
17:17
I noticed in this he's got some really good strong scenes in
17:20
here, but he's not in it as much.
17:21
A lot is given to Dodo and Steven.
17:24
The Doctor meets the Elders and has all of that.
17:27
He's got a few. Few scenes here and there, few
17:30
strong scenes and everybody else takes the story.
17:32
Maybe that's the best which? I think is a great form, but he
17:34
could have carried. Maybe he could have carried on a
17:36
bit better if he could have done just a little bit like this.
17:39
He walks in, I'm the doctor. I'm going to sit and have coffee
17:41
with the elders while Dodo and Stephen going after the
17:44
adventure for us. And they can run in as if it's
17:47
like he's just left the kids to babysit.
17:50
Dr. Dr. Stephen's gone missing. Oh, I'm sure she's all right.
17:54
I'm sitting here talking to Jacob, just hanging in with my
17:57
friends. She'll be back.
17:59
And then Dodo can come in. Doctor.
18:00
Doctor Steven's done this. Oh, just is fine.
18:03
But frankly, no one does moral indignation better than William
18:06
Hart. And in episode 2, when he gets
18:08
his rag on, it's hilarious. Look at this location.
18:10
This location stuff would be, so he's got, he's got a camera
18:15
right at the top of the Ridge and he's shooting down and he's
18:17
put the TARDIS, yeah, down into the bottom of the Ridge.
18:20
Spears coming down on them. I'd love to see Dodo and Steven
18:23
on film running. I can't believe we're examining
18:25
telestapes right now. This is what our last context
18:28
claimed. But it actually looks like it's
18:30
late in the day and the sun is going down so.
18:33
But it looked quite stylish. I'm not sure.
18:39
Oh, isn't this hilarious, right? All of them know about the
18:42
Doctor Stephen endowed, don't they?
18:44
He says. We've been following your
18:46
adventures, you know, they're like Doctor Who fans.
18:49
Yeah, we've been following your adventures, and I particularly
18:52
like the one with the Butterfly people.
18:56
Okay. Like the effect of smearing
18:58
Vaseline on the lens in that one, but how have they been
19:01
watching? It's this scary.
19:04
They've got a type of space visualizer.
19:06
If only, yeah, if only. And here we are in the.
19:10
Of City of the Elders a bit. Oh, don't you think it's
19:13
hilarious how they did this back in the 60s?
19:15
A few drapes on the walls, everyone's wearing sort of
19:17
flowing robes and the costume they put William Artner in.
19:21
Well, basically they give the doctor an honorary degree, don't
19:24
they? Yeah.
19:24
They say, yeah, we'd like to offer you a job, yeah.
19:27
They do that real laugh, don't they?
19:28
Didn't David don't get one. Catherine Tate get one.
19:30
You get honorary degrees from places tiny.
19:32
Oh, do you? Or he's just that it becomes
19:35
like an honorary elder. Yeah.
19:37
Basically that's what they do in real life, yeah.
19:39
Are they just trying to keep him close because they know he's not
19:41
going to like they've? If they've watched his
19:43
adventures then they must know he's not the sort of fella
19:46
that's going to accept all this sort of life sucking that's
19:50
going on. It's highlighting their advanced
19:52
nature that they've got the means to be able to track and
19:55
know. These things.
19:57
That's true. That's one of the publicity
19:58
shows there, with Hartnell tucking at his lapels whilst
20:02
Frederick Jaeger's Jano looks on a bit worried.
20:06
And what are the two children called?
20:08
Flower and. Avon.
20:10
Flower and Avon. Avon Jimmy from The Invasion.
20:14
Avon. Yeah.
20:15
Have you betrayed me? Yeah.
20:19
What about Professor Plaskan? How?
20:24
But then this is very much the 1st Doctor's character as well.
20:27
I like this that they're praising him there, inflating.
20:31
His ego and he's You can imagine the.
20:33
Partner would be there literally, because you remember
20:36
in the gunfighters when he goes in and no one, no one's
20:38
impressed for him at all. Are they?
20:40
Like really? This is most unprofessional.
20:42
He's forgotten Stephen and Dodo. He's just got caught up in all
20:45
of this. Do you know what he says?
20:47
Thank you young lady, for making me look so grand.
20:52
I can see the third, the 3rd Doctor loving this.
20:56
Oh yeah, Hobnobbing it with the row a.
20:58
The 2nd Doctor would not. He would just not be doing this.
21:01
It's so. This is so First Doctor
21:03
character, so sit down with the. Elders, man.
21:06
Fuck, he's going off to a gay disco and that outfit looking.
21:09
Oh, and Steven gets a dagger and Doda gets a lovely mirror, hand
21:12
mirror. They've got gifts for everybody.
21:14
That's really nice. Fucking the sexist Steven gets a
21:18
weapon and Dodo gets something to preen herself in.
21:20
She loves it. It's got diamonds on it.
21:23
Oh yeah, look, she's loving it. And she's looking in the mirror
21:31
going, oh, this is, this is a much older actress.
21:25
So I see. So they're giving them or give
21:27
some positions. They're trying to get them on
21:29
side, aren't they? I thought I was supposed to be
21:38
15. Steven.
21:41
No. You've always been that old,
21:42
Jackie. Honestly.
21:44
Hey, did you ever hear the story about Toby Haydo?
21:46
Seen Jackie lay on the train. Yes, I heard.
21:49
I have heard that podcast. Yes.
21:50
Yeah. Oh, it's.
21:51
She did. He walked past her about 10
21:54
times before he would have said hello.
21:55
But you would have done. You're so shy.
21:58
You would have got to say I would have done.
22:01
It's a shame that she didn't do more.
22:03
It's a shame that all we really have is a of her time.
22:07
Is that mythmakers? DVD into it.
22:11
That's all we call it in terms of interviewing.
22:14
It's that terrible Mythmakers. I know it's the 90s where they
22:17
did all these stupid effects. I think it's Nicholas Riggs
22:20
interviewing her, asking the most ridiculous question.
22:23
And I love the mathemaker stuff. It was keeping the flame alive
22:25
through the wilderness years, but they made some terrible
22:28
choices in making those things. Oh, hey.
22:31
Just comes. I have a special effect.
22:33
Just sit down and just have a chat with her.
22:35
That's all we want. We don't want any of this stuff.
22:37
And they can't really use that. I mean, I'm.
22:40
Great. If that was on the pollen,
22:41
Baker's going around and they keep getting beamed off into
22:44
different parts of a forest and I'm like, what's happening?
22:46
I mean, I hope that didn't put her off fan things.
22:50
I think you think that was it. It would have been nice just to
22:52
have one commentary or something.
22:53
And actually, she doesn't owe anyone anything.
22:56
She doesn't have to do anything. It was a job a long time ago.
22:59
She doesn't really. If she doesn't care, she doesn't
23:01
care, or she doesn't want to do it or feel like she wants to do
23:03
it, that's fine. I'm just saying it's just a it's
23:05
a shame because I would have loved especially this time
23:09
because of the like we were saying.
23:10
This is a bit more of an unknown time, yeah, with all these
23:15
misses and she's got a big sort of a part of that and it would
23:19
be great just to know a bit more, but if she doesn't
23:21
remember it and fair enough, fine do.
23:23
You think that because she didn't do any appearances like
23:27
that? There's sort of sort of mythos
23:30
built around the lack of interviews, because some people
23:33
like terroristics and things like that.
23:34
They're like interviews are tenants.
23:35
Well, there's certain parts of the to like the units about the.
23:39
70s There, Jackie Lane. Well, around this time.
23:41
Well, there was Janet Fielding for a while, wasn't it?
23:43
For a while. I mean, I know Andrew and Hill
23:45
did a Doctor Magazine interview, but there's not too much about
23:49
stuff like Jacqueline Hill. There is that she did like 1
23:54
convention where she's interviewed.
23:55
Well, she died. Yes, I know.
23:57
I know she. Was about to start going to
23:59
convention in the 90s, I know, but it's just a shame that there
24:02
isn't more footage. You know a sit down interview
24:06
with her or myth makers with her and it's just those and that's
24:09
what fascinates me about these sort of parts of Doctor Who,
24:12
which is you feel like a bit of an archaeologist.
24:17
That's what's so enticing about these missing episodes.
24:14
You want to know a little bit more but you just can't.
24:16
It's just out of. It's.
24:20
Like uncovering the unknowable. Yeah.
24:23
Do you know, I'm going to tell you a strucking fact about I'm
24:26
ready. There is more complete stories
24:29
with Dodo than there is with Polly and Ben.
24:35
There's not one complete story with Polly and Ben, and you can
24:37
watch the whole of the gunfighters and you can watch
24:39
the whole of the arc. We're so lucky to have the war
24:41
machines, because if we didn't have that, oh.
24:43
Yeah, sorry, there's one complete story.
24:45
If we didn't have that and there was an even bigger section
24:48
there, that would be even. Hang on a minute.
24:51
There's 48910 Dodo episodes out there.
24:55
What a treat. What a treat.
24:57
But I'd love to. Seriously though, yeah.
25:00
Do you like? Dodo.
25:02
Do you think Dodo is an effective companion?
25:04
I do. I think she's a bit more
25:06
interesting than some of the companions around.
25:08
She's got much of A back story, though.
25:10
She really don't know much about her.
25:11
Doesn't matter. She just gets into the story and
25:13
I love the way, you know, in the gunfighters where she's having a
25:17
go at, what's his name, Doc Holiday.
25:19
She's a go at the Monoid in the Ark.
25:21
Unless you take me back. She's a girl.
25:23
She sandwiches here. She's like, you know, this
25:26
equipment. This equipment cost a packet.
25:28
I will smash it in. She's great.
25:30
You wouldn't get something. On the shit, it was like having
25:32
Jackie Lady there for a second. I would love to go all the way
25:34
through Dance Master Plan. Do you remember?
25:36
The bit at the end of at the end of this where the Doctor goes,
25:40
you know, my dear, there's something lovely about
25:42
destroying something that's evil.
25:44
And then she just goes, yes and start smashing the boys apart.
25:49
She's a fucking Anika. She is.
25:51
Okay. But I'm going to again imagine
25:53
her. I'm going to again bring some
25:54
normality to this because I think you're mad because I feel
25:59
like they do write her as a child a lot of the time and
26:01
she's playing by somebody who's middle-aged.
26:04
She's not. It's a bit like Sophie Aldrid in
26:07
the 80s. I don't, I know, Okay.
26:09
She's supposed to be a bit younger in the character, but
26:12
she's not like massively old here.
26:15
I think she, I think she's probably in her 30s.
26:17
She's not in her 30s. There is no way she's in her
26:20
30s. She looks like Caroline Ford in
26:22
My Doctors. She's not she.
26:26
Is where everybody Could you write in and tell us how old
26:29
Jackie Lane was in Savages, please?
26:32
I don't really think of her age. But I feel like she's written
26:35
like a 12 year old sometimes, like in Celestia Toymaker.
26:39
Where she's going, agree she's going, hey, it's all lovely.
26:42
And Steven, it's not lovely anymore.
26:44
Well, that's Script Editor's fault for letting that pass
26:47
through, I think. OK, more of an important
26:49
question. Is Jacqueline a good actress?
26:53
Because I think with the material she's given.
26:54
Yeah, I think she can sink some lines, so.
26:57
Some lines that are well written, although I don't think
27:00
always, but I do think she can overplay lines and you know her
27:04
accent V is from, I don't mind. All four corners of the globe.
27:07
I don't mind that at all. So you're pro dodo?
27:10
Absolutely. And what about her getting a
27:13
STD? OK, that is a bit of an urban
27:15
myth, isn't it? Urban myth is an urban.
27:19
Myth. Yeah, there is that.
27:20
But I think there's a It's an alien STD thing, I think.
27:25
She has sex with. I think she does have sex, but I
27:27
don't think it's what we think it is.
27:30
But it's a shame. It is a shame.
27:32
And that's so 90s. I can't.
27:34
Imagine any story with William Hartnell in it where someone's
27:37
having sex. Oh, not exactly.
27:40
Exactly what's? Wrong with Daniel Omani, right
27:42
in those books. Well, and you just, I don't
27:46
know, it's the 90s. That's all I can say.
27:49
I mean, she does. You know, when she goes back to
27:51
contemporary Earth, she's straight down the Inferno.
27:53
Disco. Yeah.
27:55
What? Did you get her rocks off?
27:57
Or maybe she just wants a boogie.
27:59
I'm not sure. Look at the Doctor.
28:01
He's loving it, but the doctor's very much out of this, isn't he?
28:04
He's he's sitting there having these scenes.
28:06
Between him and Jago, Jano, Jano, Jago keep saying Jago.
28:11
It's Jado. Oh dear.
28:12
Jano. Yeah, but what we're finding out
28:16
is about this society. So you're getting the side that
28:19
the doctors? Getting, getting, and then it's
28:21
coming back. I love how it cuts back and you
28:23
see what's happening to. Melina And that's a very
28:25
effective way of doing it, but it works perfectly.
28:28
And in that you've got Stephen and Dodo, and it's the seed
28:33
being planted a little bit here that Stephen's like, wow, this
28:35
is a great place. And Dodo's suspicious, but
28:38
Stephen is very much. Well, not when Stephen started,
28:43
yeah. He would be the one.
28:45
His character would be the one that was questioning a lot of
28:48
things. He seems to be watered down a
28:49
little. Bit here.
28:50
Oh, I think that's just it, how he is.
28:52
Draback's writing him though. She looks out the window,
28:54
doesn't she? And sees the savage being pulled
28:56
along. The Nina.
28:58
No, Nina that. You know what?
29:02
They've used stills of old Jimmy from the invasion, haven't they?
29:06
They have. Did.
29:07
You say the actress was the woman who played Nearer's wife,
29:10
Poppy? I think so.
29:13
I don't know. Or pay her something like that.
29:15
Yeah, yeah, I think so. She's great in the Romans.
29:18
Well, she's pretty good in this, you know, I know what you've
29:20
seen right in these Tele snaps, even in the studio, Christopher
29:24
Barry is doing long shots and high angle shots to shoot the
29:28
sets a bit more interestingly and that the lighting is really
29:32
good as well. And the sets, I think this might
29:34
have had a bit of money. Frona, you know, it's funny how
29:37
you if we if it was discovered, it might be reevaluated.
29:41
For this one. But would it be for better or
29:44
for worse or you never really know, like, you know, like the
29:46
fear in the world? Worse than being forgotten about
29:49
altogether, I know, I know, you just you get a certain amount
29:53
from the telesnaps, but then you don't know the whole field of it
29:56
could be completely different when you actually watch.
29:58
It I've got a feeling if we could see this, the direction,
30:02
the incidental music which I want to talk about.
30:05
And William Hartnell's pertinent scenes.
30:08
And in fact, you're right. And as a dodo story, I think
30:11
this would be reevaluated as something pretty good.
30:15
It's a bit funny. The only thing I noticed in here
30:17
is where the Steven Andodo have been shown around this complex.
30:21
It's only the two characters. There doesn't seem to be any
30:23
extras or background artists or anything to keep make it.
30:26
A society does feel very empty. Well, and also as well as like
30:29
you show them around, they show them a corridor.
30:31
Yeah, you don't really see. I don't know, you don't really
30:34
see much, but I suppose the you're on the location.
30:37
You've got this. Excuse me, can you say take me
30:39
to the the oldest version of the Inferno nightclub they could be
30:43
walking through, and you could have 100 silent extras walking
30:46
around in the background doing all sorts of things that we just
30:48
don't get low on audio autosaps? They just seem to be out of
30:52
shock. And they just happened to, well,
30:53
he didn't press snap at that point.
30:58
Do you think it was automatic or he just was like, oh, this looks
31:00
interesting Snap. I don't know, they could be
31:03
like, really interesting moments.
31:04
But he pressed snap, and he missed it.
31:06
This life sucking device, Oh yeah, has the most intriguing
31:11
sound effects. You know this?
31:16
Is very accurate rendition in their lives?
31:19
Oh, no, I just didn't. Sucking noises, Can you believe?
31:25
Oh dear, Oh dear. Oh, this scientist guy who keeps
31:28
going. You know, you put me beyond
31:29
schedule all the time. You know, keep coming.
31:32
Bulging in here. Wow, there's there's an earth
31:35
female on the loose. You know, it's brilliant.
31:42
What's the current so they're bringing the Nina in for?
31:45
Sucking Like suck. Yeah, yeah.
31:48
Do you know what you've got sucking and vibrators in this
31:51
one, isn't it? Is his reacting vibrator?
31:54
I don't know. He's he's well.
31:56
He was trying to work out what year they were in, weren't they?
31:58
So maybe the? Vibrations of that I don't know
32:01
what called it. And do you know what's the
32:05
funniest bit? It's where you don't need to
32:07
vibrate at the ball when he goes to Steven.
32:09
Here, take this away. I don't need this anymore.
32:11
Take it back to the TARDIS. Oh, we're coming up to the end
32:14
of part one now. Yeah, look at the lighting down
32:16
this corridor, this corridor. They've made it really.
32:19
It's simple. Do you know what it is?
32:20
It looks like enormous Venetian blinds.
32:22
Well, yeah, like solar panel type things, isn't it?
32:25
Yeah. But Dodo goes wandering a lot.
32:28
Dodo is going off, you see, that's that's what I want to
32:31
see. I want to see more what.
32:32
Christopher Barry does is he has her close to the camera with the
32:36
corridor stretching away from her, so it looks really visually
32:40
interesting. I think he's his first story was
32:42
the darlex Christopher Barry. He does.
32:46
He done the rescue, he done the Romans.
32:44
Those corridors in the Daleks are.
32:48
So he's done a few stories. At this point.
32:50
I think he's got to a point where he can absolutely make
32:53
this stuff look really good. Dodo snooping about.
33:04
Yeah. But you know, it's really sad
32:59
because this is her last complete story, Next story.
33:03
She's gone, isn't she? It's maybe she's just sort of
33:07
coming into her own. I think she needed a bit of time
33:10
to get through. She didn't.
33:12
The material she was given wasn't great.
33:15
No, that's the problem. Not always, no.
33:17
And this season three is so inconsistent.
33:20
You know, what? Do we start with Galaxy 4 and we
33:23
end up with this Savages. Let's think of all those changes
33:26
we've gone through. Well, yeah, but everything.
33:28
Think about the changes of tone in the season.
33:30
Exactly the whole right from. The myth makers to the darks
33:33
master plan to the massacre to unless your toy maker in the
33:36
gunfires. When you did this with Sarah
33:38
Chu, she must have been very confused.
33:40
No, I know, but it's it's sort of exciting as well at the same
33:43
time. But they have gone through a
33:45
lot, haven't they? It's a tough one season for you
33:47
because it's my personal favorite.
33:49
William Harlow season because. I do really like the shift in
33:53
tones, yeah, but it's tough because it's the one with the
33:55
least amount of material shame. Yeah, I find that really odd
33:59
that they managed to salvage nearly all of season one and
34:01
two. I think it was selling.
34:03
I mean this is very not even any not accurate.
34:06
But was it? Those early ones sold more, and
34:08
by the time it got season three, people weren't interested, so it
34:10
was sold as much. Could be or something like that.
34:13
But yeah, it is. Could you?
34:14
Do me a favor for a second unless someone's got this in
34:17
their basement. Because listen to the end of
34:19
this episode. You ready?
34:21
Hang on, violin. It is, isn't it?
34:26
It's all string instruments. It's got its own sound.
34:28
This story do. You know what, right?
34:33
I've got to be honest with you. Oh, my God.
34:38
Don't. Don't know.
34:38
Do you know what? I'd love it.
34:41
It's every time I walked into a room that music plays.
34:43
It's great. So this is only a one off
34:46
composer that we don't have. And the other Jones is it
34:49
something like that? But it's definitely stands out.
34:51
So much. I mean, I'm going to shock
34:53
everyone now. I'm not a big fan of Dudley
34:55
Simpson. I'm sorry.
34:57
Why? I tell you just it's just
34:59
someone playing the clarinet the old time most of the time, isn't
35:01
it? By the time he gets to the 70,
35:03
oh, by the time he gets to the like horns and I'm on.
35:05
I'm like, good, He's off. I'm sorry.
35:09
When the Radiophonic Workshop came in, start doing music in
35:14
season 18. Yeah, well then that gets a bit
35:16
tight. It's like older every week.
35:18
Yeah, I don't know. I'm not a big no.
35:21
I prefer sort of 1 off composers that does something a bit
35:25
different. We're just one step away from it
35:26
being da da da da da da da da. And it is.
35:32
I thought the music was excellent in this.
35:35
Like, you're right, very, very different from what we normally
35:37
get. Although I remind you last week
35:39
it was. So fill up your glasses.
35:43
Something different. I mean, that's at least that's a
35:44
one off different thing. Yeah.
35:46
I don't remember there being any music in the war machines.
35:49
Well, there was. What's that?
35:56
That was the. That was the machine noise.
35:57
The. Worst impression of anything
35:59
you've ever done? No.
36:00
There was that symbol. The what?
36:04
What match match means episode one?
36:13
That was it. Doctor, we're not doing the war.
36:18
Oh, sorry. OK, this up.
36:20
Should I? What?
36:20
Right. I thought we're going to learn
36:22
nothing to talk about. The savages.
36:24
We've gone 10 minutes overlooked.
36:25
We're 35 minutes in. We're there.
36:27
Go watch episode two. Yeah.
36:29
OK, well, see us out then. Stephen, what's up?