Latest / iwon™ podcast with Michael J Thomas / Why I’m Taking on Spotify: Scott Truitt’s Plan to Fix a Broken Industry | iwon podcast | Episode 5

Transcript

Why I’m Taking on Spotify: Scott Truitt’s Plan to Fix a Broken Industry | iwon podcast | Episode 5 · iwon™ podcast with Michael J Thomas

0:00
So
0:00
today
0:00
I
0:01
am
0:01
very,
0:01
very
0:01
excited
0:02
to
0:02
have
0:03
on
0:03
the
0:03
podcast
0:04
a
0:04
man
0:05
who
0:05
is
0:06
taking
0:07
on
0:07
Spotify.
0:09
He
0:09
has
0:10
plenty
0:10
of
0:10
experience,
0:11
and
0:12
he's
0:12
diving
0:12
into
0:13
something
0:13
that
0:14
has
0:14
been
0:14
a
0:14
passion
0:14
of
0:15
his.
0:15
And
0:15
I'm
0:15
sure
0:16
you'll
0:16
learn
0:17
so
0:17
much
0:18
from
0:18
this
0:18
podcast.
0:19
My
0:19
guest
0:19
today
0:20
is
0:21
a
0:21
chap
0:21
called
0:21
Scott,
0:22
Scott
0:22
Truitt.
0:23
Hello,
0:23
Scott.
0:24
Hey,
0:25
Mikey.
0:25
How
0:25
are
0:26
you?
0:26
Are
0:27
you
0:27
ready
0:27
to
0:27
dive
0:28
into
0:28
your
0:29
story?
0:30
Absolutely.
0:30
My
0:31
favorite
0:31
subject
0:31
of
0:31
all,.
0:34
Of
0:34
course.
0:34
Obviously,
0:35
when
0:36
we
0:36
do
0:36
these,
0:36
nothing's
0:37
off
0:37
the
0:37
table.
0:37
So
0:38
Scott
0:38
and
0:38
I
0:38
are
0:38
going
0:39
to
0:39
dive
0:39
into
0:40
everything
0:40
for
0:40
you
0:41
and
0:41
really
0:41
share
0:42
his
0:42
journey.
0:43
And
0:43
I
0:43
guarantee
0:44
that
0:44
you
0:44
will
0:45
learn
0:45
some
0:45
amazing
0:45
things
0:46
from
0:46
this.
0:47
So,
0:47
first
0:47
of
0:47
all,
0:48
Scott,
0:48
we'll
0:48
start
0:49
with
0:49
your
0:49
journey.
0:50
Yes.
0:51
Leaving
0:52
a
0:52
very
0:53
comfortable
0:53
career
0:54
for
0:55
a
0:55
25
0:56
year
0:56
obsession.
0:58
Specifically,
1:00
I'd
1:00
love
1:01
to
1:01
discuss
1:01
the
1:02
first
1:02
time
1:02
that
1:03
that
1:03
idea
1:04
started
1:04
burning
1:05
in
1:05
your
1:05
brain
1:06
and
1:06
becoming
1:07
a
1:08
thing
1:08
that
1:09
you
1:09
had
1:09
to
1:09
do
1:09
at
1:10
some
1:10
point,
1:10
whenever
1:11
that
1:11
would
1:11
be,
1:12
and
1:12
how
1:12
you
1:13
came
1:13
up
1:13
with
1:13
the
1:13
idea
1:14
for
1:14
it.
1:15
Sure,
1:15
sure.
1:16
Well,
1:16
first
1:16
of
1:17
all,
1:17
thanks
1:17
again
1:17
for
1:18
having
1:18
me,
1:18
Mikey.
1:18
I'm
1:19
really
1:19
excited
1:19
about
1:19
this.
1:20
Um,
1:20
I
1:21
know
1:21
some
1:21
of
1:21
the
1:21
questions
1:21
you're
1:22
gonna
1:22
ask
1:22
me.
1:22
I'm
1:22
sure
1:22
there's
1:23
plenty
1:23
more
1:23
I
1:23
haven't
1:23
even
1:24
considered.
1:24
This
1:24
is
1:24
really
1:25
cool
1:25
for
1:25
me.
1:25
So
1:25
thanks.
1:26
Thanks
1:26
again.
1:27
No
1:27
problem
1:27
at
1:27
all.
1:28
So
1:28
I'll,
1:28
I'll
1:28
date
1:29
myself
1:29
here.
1:29
But
1:30
we
1:30
go
1:30
all
1:30
the
1:30
way
1:30
back
1:30
to
1:31
the
1:31
late
1:31
90s,
1:32
which
1:32
is
1:32
when
1:32
I
1:33
had
1:33
sort
1:33
of
1:33
the
1:33
first
1:34
round
1:34
of
1:34
ideas
1:35
for
1:35
this
1:35
thing.
1:36
And
1:36
the
1:37
beginning
1:37
of
1:37
the
1:37
90s
1:38
were
1:38
really
1:38
all
1:39
about
1:39
music
1:39
for
1:40
me.
1:40
My
1:40
friends
1:40
made
1:41
music,
1:41
we
1:41
threw
1:42
parties,
1:42
we
1:43
had
1:43
record
1:43
labels.
1:44
We
1:44
were
1:44
constantly
1:45
just
1:45
immersed
1:46
in
1:46
music.
1:46
And
1:46
I
1:47
just
1:47
assume
1:48
that's
1:48
how
1:48
life
1:48
would
1:48
go.
1:49
And
1:50
then
1:50
somewhere
1:50
around
1:52
99
1:53
or
1:53
so,
1:54
I
1:54
got
1:55
sucked
1:55
into
1:55
this
1:56
weird
1:56
world
1:56
of
1:56
enterprise
1:57
software.
1:58
And
1:58
I
1:58
kept
1:59
getting
1:59
jobs
2:00
and
2:00
money
2:01
and
2:01
kept
2:01
growing
2:02
in
2:02
my
2:02
career
2:02
and
2:03
that
2:03
sort
2:04
of
2:04
just
2:04
took
2:04
off.
2:05
But
2:05
at
2:05
the
2:05
same
2:05
time,
2:06
I
2:06
had
2:06
this
2:07
parallel
2:07
universe
2:07
of
2:08
music.
2:08
And
2:09
in
2:09
particular,
2:09
my
2:09
favorite
2:10
record
2:10
label
2:10
was
2:10
throwing
2:11
a
2:11
10
2:11
year
2:11
anniversary
2:12
party
2:12
in
2:13
London
2:13
in
2:13
1999.
2:15
I
2:15
was
2:15
still
2:15
in
2:15
the
2:15
States
2:16
at
2:16
that
2:16
point.
2:16
I
2:16
now
2:17
live
2:17
in
2:17
London
2:17
largely
2:18
because
2:18
of
2:18
that
2:18
experience.
2:20
But
2:20
they
2:20
also
2:21
had
2:21
a
2:21
job
2:21
posting.
2:22
And
2:23
it
2:23
was
2:23
for
2:23
a
2:23
guy
2:23
to
2:24
come
2:24
in
2:24
or
2:24
a
2:24
person
2:24
to
2:25
come
2:25
in
2:25
and
2:25
work
2:25
on
2:25
their
2:26
website.
2:26
And
2:26
that's
2:27
what
2:27
I
2:27
did.
2:27
I
2:28
made
2:28
websites.
2:28
I
2:29
loved
2:29
music,
2:30
I
2:30
love
2:30
this
2:31
record
2:31
label.
2:31
So
2:32
I
2:32
remember
2:33
I
2:33
had
2:33
to
2:33
ask
2:33
what
2:34
a
2:34
CV
2:34
was
2:34
because
2:35
I
2:35
had
2:35
no
2:35
idea.
2:36
And
2:37
I
2:37
applied
2:37
for
2:37
it.
2:37
I
2:38
eventually
2:38
came
2:38
to
2:38
London,
2:39
went
2:39
to
2:39
these
2:39
shows,
2:40
talked
2:40
to
2:40
the
2:40
guy,
2:40
and
2:40
like
2:41
two
2:41
seconds
2:41
later
2:41
he's
2:41
like,
2:42
off,
2:42
mate,
2:42
you're
2:43
never
2:43
going
2:43
to
2:43
get
2:43
this
2:43
job.
2:44
Which
2:44
is
2:44
totally
2:45
fair.
2:45
But
2:45
I
2:45
was
2:45
convinced,
2:46
like,
2:46
I'll
2:46
just
2:47
move
2:47
here
2:47
and
2:47
do
2:47
this.
2:49
And
2:49
so
2:49
really
2:49
the
2:49
thesis
2:50
that
2:50
I
2:50
wrote
2:51
down
2:51
then
2:51
was
2:51
all
2:52
about
2:52
sort
2:52
of
2:52
building
2:53
communities
2:53
and
2:54
connections
2:54
around
2:54
the
2:54
artist,
2:55
around
2:55
the
2:56
music
2:56
itself,
2:57
and
2:57
creating
2:57
these
2:57
immersive
2:58
experiences
2:59
just
2:59
about
3:00
them,
3:00
not
3:01
just
3:01
blindly,
3:02
oh,
3:02
here's
3:02
our
3:03
record
3:03
label,
3:03
here's
3:03
all
3:04
the
3:04
music
3:04
we
3:04
have.
3:04
But
3:05
like,
3:05
I
3:05
care
3:05
about
3:06
this
3:06
person,
3:06
I
3:06
care
3:07
about
3:07
this
3:07
sound,
3:07
I
3:08
care
3:08
about
3:08
this
3:08
album.
3:09
And
3:09
that
3:09
was
3:09
the
3:10
bit
3:10
that
3:10
really
3:10
started
3:10
it
3:11
all.
3:11
And
3:11
then
3:12
flash
3:12
forward
3:12
a
3:13
few
3:13
years,
3:14
sometime
3:14
2002,
3:15
2004.
3:16
I
3:16
know
3:16
where
3:16
I
3:16
lived.
3:17
I
3:17
don't
3:17
know
3:17
which
3:17
day
3:18
it
3:18
was,
3:18
but
3:18
I
3:19
sorted
3:19
my
3:19
IT
3:20
library
3:20
by
3:20
the
3:21
number
3:21
of
3:21
times
3:21
I
3:21
played
3:22
each
3:22
song.
3:22
And
3:22
I
3:23
saw
3:23
these
3:23
songs
3:23
that
3:23
I
3:23
played
3:24
a
3:24
hundred
3:24
plus
3:24
times.
3:25
I
3:25
was
3:25
like,
3:26
these
3:26
songs
3:26
are
3:26
just
3:26
like,
3:27
they're
3:27
me,
3:28
they're
3:28
ingrained
3:29
in
3:29
my
3:29
soul.
3:29
I
3:30
can
3:30
sing
3:30
them
3:30
backwards,
3:31
forwards,
3:31
upside
3:32
down,
3:32
you
3:33
know,
3:33
it
3:33
didn't
3:33
matter.
3:34
And
3:34
I
3:34
remember
3:35
thinking
3:35
I
3:35
spent
3:36
99
3:36
cents
3:37
on
3:37
these
3:37
songs.
3:38
Some
3:38
of
3:38
these
3:38
songs
3:38
I
3:38
may
3:39
have
3:39
even
3:39
found
3:39
on
3:40
the
3:40
Internet.
3:40
They
3:40
were
3:40
just
3:41
like
3:41
laying
3:41
around
3:41
and
3:42
it
3:42
was
3:42
like,
3:42
how
3:43
can
3:43
that
3:43
be?
3:43
How
3:44
can
3:44
something
3:44
so
3:45
important
3:45
be
3:45
a
3:46
trivial
3:46
one
3:47
time
3:47
expense?
3:48
And
3:48
I
3:48
never
3:49
have
3:49
to
3:49
say
3:49
anything
3:50
again.
3:50
And
3:51
then
3:51
of
3:51
course,
3:51
if
3:51
you
3:52
remember
3:52
back
3:52
then,
3:52
I
3:53
don't
3:53
know
3:53
how
3:53
old
3:53
you
3:53
are
3:53
and
3:53
I
3:54
don't
3:54
want
3:54
to
3:54
guess,
3:54
but
3:56
you're
3:56
welcome
3:56
to
3:57
if
3:57
you
3:57
want.
3:57
No,
3:57
no.
3:58
Oh,
3:58
good.
3:59
To
3:59
share
3:59
music
4:00
with
4:00
your
4:00
friends,
4:01
you
4:01
had
4:01
to
4:01
upload
4:02
the
4:02
file,
4:02
you
4:03
had
4:03
to
4:03
steal
4:03
it
4:04
all
4:04
over
4:04
again,
4:05
right?
4:05
There
4:05
was
4:05
no
4:06
way
4:06
to
4:06
just
4:06
say
4:06
like,
4:06
oh,
4:07
hey,
4:07
it's
4:07
a
4:07
URL.
4:08
Oh,
4:08
go
4:08
here
4:09
and
4:09
press
4:09
play
4:10
like
4:10
you
4:10
can
4:10
with
4:11
YouTube
4:11
or
4:12
even
4:12
Spotify
4:12
now.
4:13
So
4:13
to
4:14
me,
4:14
the
4:14
original
4:15
ideas
4:15
were
4:15
sort
4:15
of
4:15
baked
4:16
around
4:16
like
4:16
caring
4:17
about
4:17
artists,
4:17
caring
4:18
about
4:18
music,
4:19
and
4:19
finding
4:19
a
4:19
way
4:19
to
4:20
share
4:20
but
4:20
still
4:21
compensate
4:21
those
4:21
people
4:22
for
4:22
what
4:22
they
4:22
did.
4:23
And
4:23
to
4:23
me,
4:24
that
4:24
was
4:24
just
4:24
a
4:24
simple
4:25
pay
4:25
for
4:25
play
4:25
model
4:26
that
4:26
became
4:27
foreplay
4:27
today.
4:28
Now
4:28
obviously
4:29
a
4:29
lot
4:29
of
4:29
time
4:29
transpired
4:30
between
4:30
now
4:30
and
4:31
then,
4:31
so
4:32
let's,
4:32
let's
4:32
dig
4:32
into
4:33
that
4:33
story
4:33
too.
4:34
Whenever
4:34
I
4:34
speak
4:35
to
4:35
founders,
4:35
I
4:36
often
4:36
get
4:36
into
4:37
this
4:37
conversation
4:37
about
4:38
something
4:38
that
4:38
was
4:39
like
4:39
unignorable.
4:40
Right.
4:41
And
4:42
it
4:42
just,
4:43
it's
4:43
something
4:43
that
4:44
they
4:44
couldn't
4:44
get
4:44
rid
4:44
of.
4:45
In
4:46
your
4:46
case,
4:46
it
4:46
sounds
4:47
like
4:47
it
4:47
was
4:47
music
4:47
and
4:48
the
4:48
passion
4:48
for
4:48
music.
4:49
I
4:49
too,
4:50
not
4:50
to
4:50
age
4:51
myself.
4:51
The
4:52
90s
4:53
was
4:53
the
4:53
best
4:53
decade
4:54
ever
4:54
for
4:54
music,
4:55
of
4:55
course,
4:55
in
4:55
my
4:55
opinion.
4:56
Yeah,
4:57
across
4:57
all
4:57
genres,
4:58
like
4:58
it
4:58
was.
4:59
I'm
5:00
the
5:00
most
5:00
eclectic
5:01
person
5:01
when
5:02
it
5:02
comes
5:02
to
5:02
music.
5:02
I'll
5:03
listen
5:03
to
5:03
pretty
5:03
much
5:03
anything,
5:03
but.
5:04
But
5:04
the
5:04
interesting
5:05
thing,
5:06
I
5:06
suppose
5:06
for
5:07
you
5:07
is
5:08
you
5:09
had
5:09
this
5:09
passion.
5:10
You
5:10
moved
5:10
to
5:11
London.
5:12
Which
5:12
record
5:12
label
5:13
was
5:13
it?
5:13
Your
5:13
favorite
5:14
record
5:14
label,
5:15
Warp
5:15
Records.
5:16
Just
5:16
this
5:17
esoteric.
5:18
Yeah.
5:18
Electronic
5:19
music.
5:20
Do
5:20
you
5:20
know
5:20
it?
5:20
Edm.
5:21
Edm,
5:21
yeah,
5:23
yeah,
5:23
yeah,
5:23
yeah.
5:24
I
5:24
was.
5:24
I
5:24
was
5:24
into.
5:25
God,
5:25
I
5:25
was
5:26
into
5:26
a
5:26
lot
5:27
back
5:27
in
5:27
the
5:27
day,
5:29
you
5:29
know,
5:30
Fat
5:30
Boy
5:30
Slim.
5:31
I
5:31
mean,
5:31
I
5:31
could
5:31
go
5:32
through
5:32
different
5:32
phases,
5:33
but
5:33
of
5:33
course,
5:34
yeah.
5:34
Which
5:34
is
5:34
the
5:35
best
5:35
part
5:35
about
5:35
it,
5:35
right?
5:36
Yeah,
5:36
yeah,
5:37
yeah.
5:37
Inevitably,
5:38
you
5:39
moved
5:40
to
5:40
London.
5:40
You
5:40
didn't
5:41
get
5:41
the
5:41
job.
5:42
You
5:43
then
5:43
ended
5:43
up
5:43
in
5:44
enterprise
5:44
sales
5:44
software.
5:46
You
5:47
mentioned
5:47
when
5:47
we
5:47
spoke
5:48
before
5:49
about
5:49
how
5:49
you
5:50
could
5:51
do
5:51
it
5:51
in
5:51
your
5:51
sleep.
5:52
You
5:52
were
5:52
really
5:53
good
5:53
at
5:53
it,
5:53
but
5:54
clearly
5:54
it
5:54
wasn't
5:54
about
5:55
the
5:55
money.
5:55
It
5:56
isn't
5:56
for
5:56
most
5:56
of
5:57
us.
5:57
It's
5:57
about
5:57
a
5:57
passion,
5:58
I
5:58
guess.
5:59
What
5:59
drove
5:59
you
6:00
to
6:02
think
6:02
this
6:02
is
6:03
better
6:03
than
6:04
a
6:04
fleeting
6:05
good
6:05
idea?
6:06
Because
6:06
from
6:07
what
6:07
I
6:07
understand
6:08
what
6:08
you
6:08
said
6:08
so
6:09
far,
6:09
you
6:09
talked
6:09
about
6:09
this
6:10
idea
6:10
of
6:10
being
6:11
able
6:11
to
6:11
share
6:11
music,
6:12
artists
6:12
getting
6:13
their
6:13
fare,
6:14
their
6:14
fair
6:14
cuts
6:16
and
6:17
what
6:17
sort
6:17
of
6:17
changed
6:18
it
6:18
from
6:18
an
6:18
idea
6:19
to
6:19
like,
6:19
I
6:19
got
6:20
to
6:20
do
6:20
this
6:20
now.
6:21
Yeah.
6:23
And
6:23
we're
6:23
leaving
6:23
out
6:24
a
6:24
bunch
6:24
of
6:24
detail
6:24
here,
6:25
so
6:25
let
6:25
me
6:25
just
6:26
try
6:26
and
6:26
color
6:26
in
6:26
a
6:27
few
6:27
more
6:28
blocks.
6:29
In
6:29
2004,
6:30
I
6:30
moved
6:30
to
6:30
San
6:30
Francisco.
6:32
I
6:32
was
6:32
working
6:32
for
6:33
a
6:33
Bay
6:33
Area
6:33
based
6:34
startup.
6:34
I
6:34
was
6:34
in
6:35
Columbus,
6:35
Ohio.
6:35
That's
6:35
where
6:36
I
6:36
grew
6:36
up,
6:36
which
6:36
I
6:36
don't
6:37
often
6:37
admit
6:37
and
6:37
just
6:38
did
6:38
that
6:38
here
6:38
on
6:38
a
6:38
podcast.
6:39
So
6:40
my
6:40
secrets
6:40
out.
6:42
But
6:42
I
6:43
had
6:43
a
6:43
colleague
6:43
who
6:45
was
6:45
brought
6:45
in
6:46
by
6:46
Kleiner
6:46
Perkins.
6:47
John
6:47
Doerr
6:48
was
6:48
on
6:48
the
6:48
board
6:48
of
6:48
the
6:49
startup.
6:50
It
6:50
was
6:51
an
6:51
absurd
6:51
sort
6:52
of
6:52
thing
6:52
where
6:52
in
6:52
Fortune
6:53
magazine
6:53
there
6:53
was
6:53
a
6:54
poll
6:54
quote
6:54
from
6:54
him
6:55
saying
6:55
the
6:55
business
6:56
we
6:56
were
6:56
in
6:56
could
6:56
be
6:57
as
6:57
big
6:57
as
6:57
the
6:57
TV
6:57
or
6:58
the
6:58
car
6:58
we
6:59
sold
6:59
for
6:59
pennies
6:59
on
6:59
the
7:00
dollar.
7:01
I
7:01
didn't
7:02
make
7:02
a
7:02
dime.
7:03
But
7:04
this
7:04
colleague
7:04
of
7:04
mine
7:05
became
7:05
a
7:05
friend
7:05
and
7:06
he
7:06
said,
7:06
look,
7:07
you're
7:07
good,
7:08
but
7:08
you
7:08
gotta
7:09
be
7:09
out
7:09
here
7:10
in
7:10
California,
7:10
in
7:11
the
7:11
Bay
7:11
Area
7:11
if
7:11
you
7:12
want
7:12
to
7:12
be
7:12
great.
7:12
You
7:12
got
7:13
to
7:13
go
7:13
against
7:13
the
7:14
top
7:14
people
7:14
each
7:15
and
7:15
every
7:15
day.
7:16
Even
7:16
if
7:16
it
7:16
sets
7:17
you
7:17
back,
7:17
even
7:18
if
7:18
it
7:18
causes
7:18
your
7:19
career
7:19
to
7:19
go
7:19
into
7:19
a
7:20
bit
7:20
of
7:20
a
7:20
tailspin
7:21
as
7:21
you
7:21
re
7:21
acclimate
7:21
and
7:22
get
7:22
up
7:22
to
7:22
speed,
7:23
do
7:23
it.
7:24
And
7:25
I
7:25
just
7:25
so
7:25
happened
7:26
to
7:26
be
7:26
able
7:26
to
7:26
move
7:26
out
7:27
in
7:27
2004.
7:27
And
7:28
sure
7:28
enough,
7:28
I
7:29
mean,
7:29
it
7:29
took
7:29
me
7:29
a
7:29
couple
7:30
years,
7:30
but
7:30
it
7:30
was
7:30
this
7:31
incredible
7:31
experience
7:32
to
7:32
go
7:32
against
7:35
everything
7:35
I
7:35
was
7:35
reading
7:36
about
7:36
at
7:36
the
7:36
time.
7:37
I
7:37
was
7:37
seeing
7:37
it
7:37
right
7:38
there
7:38
kind
7:38
of
7:38
happening.
7:40
I
7:41
Used
7:41
to
7:41
work
7:41
on
7:41
south
7:42
park
7:42
where
7:42
Twitter
7:43
was
7:43
formed.
7:43
Instagram
7:44
was
7:44
right
7:44
around
7:44
the
7:44
corner.
7:45
Like,
7:45
these
7:45
people
7:45
were
7:46
all
7:46
kind
7:46
of
7:46
living
7:46
and
7:47
breathing
7:47
the
7:47
same
7:47
air.
7:48
And
7:48
I
7:48
was
7:49
working
7:49
in
7:49
enterprise
7:49
software
7:50
on
7:50
cleantech,
7:51
smart
7:51
tech,
7:52
sort
7:53
of
7:53
smart
7:53
grid
7:53
software.
7:54
We
7:54
were
7:55
trying
7:55
to
7:56
Internetwork
7:56
the
7:57
electric
7:57
grid
7:58
with
7:59
baby
7:59
monitor
7:59
radios
8:00
in
8:01
the
8:01
early
8:01
2000s.
8:02
Right.
8:02
To
8:03
kind
8:03
of
8:03
give
8:03
you
8:03
a
8:03
feeling
8:03
for
8:04
what
8:04
life
8:04
was
8:04
like
8:04
back
8:05
then.
8:06
And
8:06
then
8:06
the
8:06
web
8:06
2
8:07
oh
8:07
craze,
8:07
all
8:07
these
8:07
things
8:08
kept
8:08
coming
8:08
in.
8:09
And
8:09
to.
8:10
To
8:10
get
8:10
to
8:10
the
8:10
question
8:11
you
8:11
asked
8:11
Mikey,
8:11
the.
8:13
This
8:13
would
8:13
come
8:13
around
8:14
every
8:14
few
8:14
years
8:15
and
8:15
sort
8:15
of
8:15
shake
8:16
me
8:16
and
8:16
say,
8:17
like,
8:17
hey,
8:17
I'm
8:18
not.
8:18
I'm
8:18
not
8:18
out
8:19
having
8:19
forgotten,
8:20
like,
8:20
we're
8:21
still
8:21
going
8:21
to
8:21
do
8:21
this.
8:21
Yeah.
8:22
And
8:22
I
8:23
would
8:23
kind
8:23
of
8:23
poke
8:23
around
8:24
on
8:24
it.
8:24
And
8:25
frankly,
8:25
I
8:25
always
8:26
struggled
8:26
to
8:26
come
8:26
up
8:26
with
8:27
a
8:27
name
8:27
for
8:27
it.
8:27
So
8:28
I
8:28
never
8:28
really
8:28
had
8:28
anything
8:29
to,
8:29
like,
8:30
hang
8:30
myself
8:31
on
8:31
or
8:31
hang
8:32
onto.
8:32
It
8:33
was
8:33
always
8:33
just
8:33
this
8:34
thing
8:34
that
8:34
floated
8:34
out
8:35
there
8:35
and
8:35
I
8:35
would
8:36
meet
8:36
various
8:36
people.
8:37
I
8:37
somehow
8:37
got
8:37
connected
8:38
to
8:38
employee
8:39
number
8:39
three
8:39
at
8:39
Napster,
8:40
and
8:40
I
8:40
pitched
8:41
him
8:41
the
8:41
idea
8:42
over
8:42
a
8:43
beer
8:43
and
8:43
he
8:43
was
8:43
like,
8:43
I
8:44
love
8:44
it.
8:44
Don't
8:45
do
8:45
it.
8:45
It's
8:45
a
8:46
terrible
8:46
industry.
8:47
Just
8:47
don't
8:47
do
8:48
it.
8:48
And
8:48
I
8:48
was
8:48
like,
8:48
okay.
8:49
But
8:50
everything
8:50
just
8:51
shut
8:51
down.
8:52
And
8:52
then
8:52
I
8:52
somehow
8:53
got
8:53
connected
8:53
into
8:53
the
8:54
VCs
8:54
that
8:54
funded
8:55
Spotify,
8:55
right.
8:56
As
8:56
their
8:56
hockey
8:56
stick
8:57
growth
8:57
took
8:57
off.
8:57
And.
8:58
And
8:58
he
8:59
sort
8:59
of
8:59
just
8:59
disabused
9:00
me
9:00
of
9:00
it.
9:00
He
9:01
was
9:01
like,
9:01
you
9:01
don't
9:01
get
9:01
it,
9:01
man.
9:02
It's
9:02
not
9:02
about
9:02
the
9:02
music.
9:03
It's
9:03
about
9:03
equity.
9:04
It's
9:04
about
9:05
this
9:05
new
9:05
economy.
9:06
It's
9:06
about
9:06
just
9:07
pulling
9:07
all
9:07
the
9:07
money
9:08
out
9:08
of
9:08
the
9:08
system
9:08
for
9:09
a
9:09
handful
9:09
of
9:09
people.
9:10
I
9:10
was
9:10
like,
9:11
God,
9:11
this
9:12
kind
9:12
of
9:12
sucks,
9:12
right?
9:14
I
9:14
can't
9:15
accept
9:15
this.
9:16
And
9:16
so
9:16
I
9:16
would
9:16
set
9:17
it
9:17
aside,
9:18
but
9:18
I
9:18
think
9:18
my
9:19
first
9:19
takeaway
9:20
is
9:20
like,
9:20
these
9:20
things
9:21
that
9:21
never
9:21
go
9:21
away,
9:22
you
9:23
got
9:23
to
9:23
honor
9:23
that.
9:24
You
9:24
gotta
9:24
listen
9:24
to
9:25
that.
9:25
That
9:25
pull
9:26
is
9:26
real.
9:26
There's
9:27
a
9:27
part
9:27
of
9:27
you
9:27
that
9:27
knows
9:28
that's
9:28
where
9:28
you
9:28
belong,
9:29
or
9:29
there's
9:30
something
9:30
larger
9:30
in
9:31
the
9:31
universe
9:31
that's
9:32
like,
9:32
hey,
9:33
the
9:33
real
9:33
work's
9:34
over
9:34
here.
9:35
And
9:35
for
9:35
me,
9:35
I
9:36
think
9:36
I
9:36
had
9:36
to
9:37
get
9:37
a
9:37
level
9:37
of
9:37
experience,
9:38
comfort
9:38
with
9:39
work
9:39
I
9:39
do.
9:40
And
9:40
I
9:41
may
9:41
have
9:41
waited
9:41
too
9:41
long,
9:42
but
9:42
I
9:42
had
9:42
a
9:42
family.
9:43
I
9:43
didn't
9:44
have
9:44
the
9:44
means
9:44
to
9:44
just
9:44
go
9:44
off
9:45
and
9:45
say,
9:45
I
9:45
quit.
9:46
I'm
9:46
gonna
9:46
go
9:46
do
9:46
this
9:47
thing.
9:48
Until
9:49
late
9:49
23,
9:50
early
9:50
24.
9:52
I'd
9:52
moved
9:52
to
9:52
London
9:53
in
9:53
22.
9:54
I'd
9:54
moved
9:54
to
9:54
Berlin
9:54
in
9:55
21.
9:55
So
9:55
I
9:55
kind
9:56
of
9:56
got
9:56
out
9:56
of
9:56
the
9:57
Bay
9:57
Area
9:57
bubble
9:58
and
9:59
started
9:59
to
9:59
see
9:59
the
10:00
world
10:00
a
10:00
little
10:00
differently.
10:01
And
10:01
just
10:02
being
10:02
in
10:02
London,
10:02
surrounded
10:03
by
10:03
music
10:03
each
10:04
and
10:04
every
10:04
day,
10:05
it
10:06
became
10:06
this,
10:06
like,
10:07
unavoidable.
10:08
I
10:08
gotta
10:08
do
10:08
this.
10:09
I
10:10
know
10:10
I
10:10
can
10:10
do
10:10
the
10:10
other
10:10
thing
10:11
that's
10:11
always
10:11
gonna
10:12
be
10:12
there.
10:13
Maybe,
10:13
maybe
10:14
not.
10:14
But,
10:14
like,
10:14
this
10:14
music
10:15
thing
10:15
may
10:15
not
10:15
last
10:16
forever.
10:16
And
10:17
if
10:17
I
10:17
don't
10:17
try,
10:18
if
10:18
I
10:18
don't
10:19
put
10:19
myself
10:19
out
10:20
there,
10:20
well,
10:21
that's
10:21
a
10:21
regret
10:22
I
10:22
don't
10:22
think
10:22
I
10:22
can
10:22
handle.
10:23
So.
10:24
Long
10:24
winded
10:24
answer,
10:25
sorry.
10:25
It
10:25
sounds
10:26
like
10:26
what
10:26
you
10:26
said
10:27
is
10:27
you
10:28
had
10:28
this
10:28
idea,
10:29
you
10:29
knew
10:29
you
10:30
wanted
10:30
to
10:30
be
10:30
a
10:30
part
10:30
of
10:31
it.
10:31
Everybody
10:31
told
10:32
you
10:32
there
10:32
was
10:32
no
10:32
point
10:33
because
10:34
the
10:34
business
10:34
model
10:35
just
10:35
eats
10:36
artists
10:37
for
10:37
breakfast.
10:38
It
10:38
isn't
10:38
about
10:39
them.
10:39
It's
10:39
about
10:40
making
10:40
a
10:41
few
10:41
people
10:41
rich.
10:42
And
10:42
then
10:43
of
10:43
course,
10:43
you
10:43
get
10:43
to
10:43
the
10:44
point
10:44
where
10:45
you.
10:45
You've
10:45
obviously
10:46
had
10:46
a
10:46
family,
10:47
you
10:47
kind
10:47
of
10:48
got
10:48
the
10:48
commitments.
10:48
Like,
10:49
everybody
10:49
has
10:49
this.
10:50
And
10:50
actually,
10:51
one
10:51
of
10:51
my
10:51
very
10:51
first
10:52
jobs,
10:52
I'll
10:53
never
10:53
forget
10:53
when
10:54
I
10:54
left
10:54
university,
10:55
after
10:55
I
10:56
finished
10:56
university,
10:56
went
10:57
to
10:57
London,
10:57
that
10:57
was
10:58
always
10:58
the
10:58
plan,
10:58
to
10:59
go
10:59
and
10:59
work
10:59
in
10:59
London.
11:00
And
11:00
I
11:00
remember
11:01
I
11:02
sat
11:02
down
11:02
with
11:02
one
11:03
of
11:03
the
11:03
guys
11:03
who
11:03
was
11:04
about
11:04
10
11:04
years
11:05
older
11:05
than
11:05
me
11:05
and
11:05
had
11:05
been
11:06
in
11:06
the
11:06
industry,
11:06
sales,
11:07
recruitment,
11:08
and
11:08
said
11:09
to
11:09
me,
11:09
because
11:09
I
11:09
naturally
11:10
said,
11:10
you're
11:10
doing
11:11
so
11:11
well,
11:11
blah,
11:11
blah,
11:11
blah,
11:12
blah,
11:12
blah,
11:12
you
11:13
know
11:13
the
11:13
numbers.
11:14
Yeah.
11:14
And
11:15
he
11:15
said
11:15
to
11:15
me
11:16
something
11:16
I'll
11:16
never
11:16
forget.
11:17
He
11:18
said,
11:18
get
11:18
out
11:18
now
11:19
before
11:19
it's
11:20
too
11:20
late.
11:20
And
11:20
I
11:20
said,
11:21
what
11:21
do
11:21
you
11:21
mean?
11:22
And
11:22
he
11:23
said,
11:23
the
11:23
problem
11:23
is
11:24
I
11:25
can't
11:25
get
11:26
the
11:26
same
11:27
salary
11:27
to
11:29
basically
11:30
maintain
11:30
my
11:30
current
11:30
lifestyle
11:31
doing
11:31
anything
11:32
else.
11:32
I'm
11:32
stuck.
11:32
Yeah,
11:33
yeah,
11:33
yeah.
11:34
And
11:34
he
11:34
said,
11:35
get
11:35
out
11:35
before
11:35
you
11:35
get
11:36
stuck
11:36
and
11:36
do
11:36
something
11:37
interesting
11:37
really
11:38
want
11:38
to
11:38
do.
11:38
And
11:38
that
11:38
was
11:39
my
11:39
first
11:39
glimpse.
11:40
And
11:40
I
11:40
think
11:40
that
11:40
was
11:41
21.
11:42
That
11:42
was
11:42
when
11:42
I
11:43
first
11:43
went,
11:43
holy
11:45
blank.
11:46
I
11:46
need
11:46
to
11:46
make
11:47
sure
11:47
that
11:47
I
11:47
don't
11:47
end
11:47
up
11:48
in
11:48
something
11:48
that's
11:49
just
11:49
about
11:49
money
11:50
anyway.
11:51
But
11:51
it
11:52
sounds
11:52
like
11:52
you
11:52
had
11:52
a
11:53
fairly
11:54
similar
11:54
thing
11:54
within
11:55
yourself.
11:56
When
11:56
everybody's
11:57
saying,
11:57
don't
11:57
do
11:58
it,
11:58
you're
11:58
like,
11:58
I'm
11:59
gonna
11:59
do
11:59
it.
11:59
Yeah.
12:00
It
12:00
was
12:00
always
12:00
a
12:01
question
12:01
of
12:01
when,
12:02
not
12:02
if.
12:03
Thinking
12:03
back
12:04
to
12:04
end
12:04
of
12:04
23,
12:05
24,
12:05
I'd
12:06
been
12:06
at
12:06
my
12:06
job
12:06
for
12:07
about
12:07
two
12:07
years.
12:09
I'd
12:09
kind
12:09
of
12:10
come
12:10
back
12:10
to
12:10
the
12:11
same
12:11
spot.
12:11
Like
12:11
nothing
12:12
was
12:12
moving
12:12
as
12:13
quickly
12:13
or
12:15
as
12:15
well
12:15
as
12:15
I
12:15
had
12:16
hoped.
12:17
And
12:17
I'm
12:17
glossing
12:18
over
12:18
a
12:18
period
12:19
of
12:19
my
12:19
life
12:19
in
12:19
mid
12:20
2010s
12:21
where
12:21
I
12:22
worked
12:22
at
12:22
just
12:22
this
12:23
incredible
12:23
company.
12:24
It
12:24
was
12:25
the
12:25
engineering
12:26
culture,
12:26
the
12:26
product
12:27
culture.
12:29
We
12:29
were
12:29
prolific.
12:30
We
12:30
did
12:30
more
12:31
in
12:31
a
12:31
week
12:31
than
12:31
I
12:32
did
12:32
in
12:32
months
12:33
at
12:33
any
12:33
other
12:34
job.
12:34
And
12:34
it
12:35
was
12:35
high
12:35
quality.
12:35
We
12:36
shipped
12:36
every
12:36
commit.
12:37
We
12:37
were
12:37
constantly
12:38
moving,
12:39
constantly
12:39
learning,
12:40
constantly
12:40
growing.
12:41
And
12:41
it
12:41
was
12:41
just
12:41
exhilarating.
12:42
And
12:43
so
12:43
I've
12:43
been
12:43
chasing
12:44
that
12:44
high
12:44
ever
12:44
since,
12:45
right?
12:46
Chasing
12:46
that
12:47
feeling
12:47
of
12:47
like,
12:48
I'm
12:49
in
12:49
it,
12:50
we're
12:50
off,
12:50
you
12:51
know,
12:51
firing
12:51
on
12:51
all
12:52
cylinders.
12:52
We're
12:52
doing
12:52
everything.
12:53
These
12:53
are
12:53
all
12:53
terrible
12:54
analogies.
12:54
I
12:54
don't
12:54
know
12:55
where
12:55
they're
12:55
coming
12:55
from,
12:55
but
12:55
you
12:55
follow
12:56
the
12:56
idea.
12:58
Just
12:58
the
12:58
machinery
12:59
of
12:59
making
13:00
software
13:00
was
13:01
so
13:01
much
13:01
fun.
13:02
And
13:02
so
13:03
coming
13:04
to
13:04
Europe
13:04
was
13:05
in
13:05
many
13:05
ways
13:06
eye
13:06
opening
13:06
because
13:07
I
13:07
lost
13:07
that.
13:08
I
13:08
lost
13:09
that
13:09
inbuilt
13:09
culture
13:10
and
13:10
that
13:10
just
13:10
understanding
13:11
of
13:12
I
13:12
could
13:12
point
13:13
monosyllabic,
13:14
grunt,
13:14
and
13:14
my
13:14
teams
13:14
would
13:15
take
13:15
off
13:15
running
13:15
and
13:16
deliver
13:16
just
13:16
amazing
13:17
stuff.
13:18
And
13:18
then
13:18
I
13:18
got
13:18
here
13:18
and
13:19
it
13:19
was
13:19
like,
13:19
well,
13:19
hold
13:19
on,
13:20
I
13:20
don't
13:20
actually
13:20
know
13:20
what
13:20
you're
13:21
talking
13:21
about.
13:21
I
13:21
don't
13:22
really
13:22
know
13:23
what
13:23
you
13:23
want
13:23
from
13:24
me.
13:24
I've
13:24
never
13:24
seen
13:24
that
13:25
before.
13:26
And
13:26
so
13:26
the
13:27
journey
13:27
is
13:27
sort
13:27
of.
13:28
There's
13:28
multiple
13:30
paths
13:30
through
13:30
it,
13:31
but
13:31
for
13:31
me,
13:32
it
13:32
was
13:32
like,
13:33
hey,
13:33
I
13:33
want
13:33
to
13:33
build
13:34
again.
13:35
And
13:35
I
13:35
want
13:35
to
13:35
build
13:35
with
13:36
people
13:36
who
13:36
know
13:36
how
13:36
to
13:37
build
13:37
like
13:37
me,
13:38
people
13:39
that
13:39
I
13:39
still
13:39
talk
13:39
to
13:39
every
13:40
day,
13:40
people
13:40
that
13:40
are
13:40
working
13:41
in
13:41
places
13:41
where
13:41
they
13:41
don't
13:42
get
13:42
to
13:42
do
13:42
that,
13:42
people
13:43
that
13:43
are
13:43
at
13:43
a
13:43
level
13:44
of
13:44
their
13:44
career
13:44
where
13:45
they
13:45
can
13:45
pick
13:45
and
13:46
choose
13:46
what
13:46
they
13:46
want
13:46
to
13:47
work
13:47
on.
13:47
And
13:48
so,
13:48
you
13:48
know,
13:48
there's.
13:49
There's
13:49
all
13:49
these
13:50
threads
13:50
that
13:50
sort
13:51
of
13:51
came
13:51
together
13:51
at
13:52
the
13:52
end
13:52
of
13:52
23,
13:53
early
13:53
24,
13:54
where
13:54
it
13:54
was
13:55
like,
13:55
I
13:55
can't
13:55
ignore
13:56
this
13:56
anymore.
13:57
And
13:58
at
13:59
the
13:59
same
13:59
time,
13:59
my
13:59
boss
14:00
and
14:00
I
14:00
kind
14:00
of
14:00
came
14:00
to
14:00
an
14:01
agreement
14:01
that,
14:01
like,
14:01
hey,
14:02
let's
14:02
part
14:02
ways.
14:04
And
14:04
so
14:04
there
14:04
was
14:05
a
14:05
big
14:05
gulp
14:05
and
14:06
a
14:06
tough
14:06
conversation
14:07
with
14:07
my
14:07
wife
14:08
to
14:09
say,
14:09
you
14:09
know,
14:10
let's
14:10
try
14:10
and
14:11
do
14:11
this.
14:12
At
14:12
that
14:12
time,
14:12
remember,
14:13
the
14:13
market
14:13
had
14:13
cratered.
14:15
The
14:15
jobs,
14:15
like
14:16
every
14:16
job
14:17
I've
14:17
had
14:17
in
14:17
my
14:18
career
14:18
until
14:18
that
14:18
point.
14:19
When
14:19
I
14:19
left
14:19
a
14:19
company,
14:20
I
14:20
made
14:20
more
14:20
money
14:21
at
14:21
the
14:21
next
14:21
place.
14:22
I
14:22
got
14:22
a
14:22
better,
14:23
bigger
14:23
title,
14:23
bigger
14:24
role,
14:24
whatever,
14:25
bigger
14:25
remit.
14:26
And
14:26
for
14:26
the
14:26
first
14:27
time,
14:27
it
14:27
was
14:28
all
14:28
gone.
14:29
There
14:29
was
14:29
nothing
14:30
there.
14:30
And
14:31
so
14:31
the
14:31
bet
14:31
very
14:31
quickly
14:32
became,
14:32
yeah,
14:33
I
14:34
need
14:34
to
14:34
go
14:34
create
14:34
something,
14:35
because
14:35
chances
14:35
are
14:36
I
14:36
may
14:36
never
14:36
find
14:37
something
14:37
like
14:38
that
14:38
again.
14:39
So
14:39
there's
14:39
a
14:39
bit
14:39
of
14:39
an
14:39
existential
14:40
pull
14:41
in
14:41
there
14:41
as
14:41
well.
14:43
In
14:43
addition
14:43
to
14:43
the
14:44
passion
14:44
and
14:44
the
14:45
pure
14:45
joy
14:46
of
14:46
working
14:46
on
14:46
music,
14:47
there
14:47
was
14:47
a
14:48
reality
14:48
of,
14:49
I
14:49
better
14:49
figure
14:50
this
14:50
thing
14:50
out,
14:51
right?
14:51
It's
14:51
time
14:52
for
14:52
me
14:52
to
14:52
put
14:52
up
14:52
or
14:52
shut
14:53
up.
14:53
Taking
14:53
that
14:54
point,
14:54
right?
14:54
If
14:55
you.
14:56
You
14:56
kind
14:56
of
14:56
got
14:56
to
14:56
the
14:56
Point
14:57
where
14:57
you
14:57
were.
14:57
You
14:57
were
14:57
thinking
14:58
to
14:58
yourself,
14:58
I
14:58
need
14:58
to
14:59
do
14:59
this.
14:59
I
15:00
need
15:00
to
15:00
go
15:00
create.
15:01
Just
15:01
going
15:01
back,
15:02
if
15:02
you
15:02
don't
15:02
mind,
15:03
like
15:04
when
15:04
you
15:05
got
15:05
those
15:05
other
15:06
roles
15:07
and
15:07
you
15:07
were
15:08
kind
15:08
of
15:08
moving
15:09
up,
15:09
as
15:09
you
15:09
say.
15:10
Yes.
15:11
How
15:11
did
15:11
that
15:11
feel?
15:12
Was
15:12
it
15:12
like.
15:13
I'm
15:13
not
15:14
going
15:14
to
15:14
put
15:14
words
15:14
in
15:14
your
15:14
mouth,
15:15
but
15:15
amazing.
15:16
Yeah,
15:16
amazing.
15:17
Every
15:17
single
15:18
leap
15:18
forward
15:19
was,
15:19
well,
15:19
the
15:19
equal
15:20
parts.
15:21
Oh,
15:21
no.
15:22
How
15:22
did
15:23
I
15:23
get
15:23
this
15:23
job?
15:24
And
15:24
also
15:25
how
15:25
amazing
15:26
that
15:26
I
15:26
get
15:27
to
15:27
figure
15:27
this
15:27
out.
15:28
For
15:29
the
15:29
longest
15:29
time,
15:29
my
15:30
Twitter
15:30
bio,
15:30
which
15:31
I
15:31
left
15:31
a
15:32
long
15:32
time
15:32
ago,
15:34
but
15:34
was
15:34
my
15:34
favorite
15:35
thing
15:35
forever
15:35
was,
15:36
I
15:36
get
15:36
lost
15:36
to
15:37
find
15:37
myself.
15:38
I
15:38
was
15:38
like,
15:38
I
15:38
don't
15:39
want
15:39
to
15:39
step
15:39
into
15:39
a
15:40
job
15:40
that
15:40
I
15:40
know
15:40
how
15:40
to
15:41
do.
15:41
That's
15:41
just
15:41
not
15:41
very
15:42
interesting.
15:43
And
15:44
each
15:44
time
15:45
I
15:45
sort
15:45
of
15:46
managed
15:46
to
15:46
talk
15:47
my
15:47
way
15:47
into
15:48
or
15:48
somehow
15:48
convince
15:49
people
15:49
to
15:49
trust
15:50
me
15:50
and
15:51
to
15:51
take
15:51
on.
15:52
I
15:53
ran
15:53
a
15:53
postgres
15:53
business
15:54
at
15:54
Heroku.
15:55
I've
15:56
never
15:56
written
15:56
a
15:56
line
15:56
of
15:56
postgres
15:57
in
15:57
my
15:57
life.
15:58
The
15:58
old
15:58
joke
15:59
was
15:59
select
16:00
star
16:00
from
16:00
star,
16:00
where
16:01
star
16:01
equals
16:01
star,
16:01
which
16:02
gives
16:02
you
16:02
everything.
16:03
That's
16:03
not
16:03
true.
16:03
That
16:04
doesn't
16:04
actually
16:04
work
16:04
that
16:05
way.
16:05
So
16:06
there's
16:06
just
16:06
all
16:06
these
16:07
layers
16:07
of.
16:07
I
16:08
knew
16:08
enough
16:09
to
16:09
get
16:09
in
16:09
that
16:09
situation.
16:10
I
16:10
knew
16:11
how
16:11
to
16:11
work
16:11
with
16:11
people.
16:11
I
16:12
knew
16:12
how
16:12
to
16:12
work
16:12
with
16:12
a
16:12
business.
16:13
I
16:13
knew
16:13
how
16:13
to
16:13
work
16:13
with
16:14
sales.
16:14
I
16:14
knew
16:14
how
16:14
to
16:15
sort
16:15
of
16:15
work
16:15
with
16:15
the
16:16
machine.
16:16
It
16:17
was
16:17
exhilarating,
16:18
right?
16:18
But
16:19
after
16:19
a
16:19
while,
16:19
it
16:20
became
16:20
sort
16:20
of
16:20
empty.
16:21
It
16:21
was
16:21
like,
16:21
yeah,
16:22
okay,
16:22
I've
16:22
seen
16:22
this
16:22
movie.
16:23
I
16:23
know
16:23
how
16:23
it
16:23
ends.
16:24
This
16:24
is.
16:24
Isn't.
16:25
I'm
16:25
not
16:25
retiring
16:26
off
16:26
this,
16:27
right?
16:27
I'm
16:27
not.
16:28
I
16:28
might
16:28
get
16:28
a
16:28
Camry.
16:29
That's
16:29
cool.
16:30
I.
16:31
I
16:31
could
16:31
probably
16:31
get
16:32
a
16:32
Camry
16:32
today.
16:32
That
16:33
was
16:33
my
16:33
old
16:33
joke
16:34
when
16:34
I
16:34
first
16:34
moved
16:34
to
16:35
the
16:35
Bay
16:35
Area.
16:35
I
16:36
never
16:36
did
16:36
get
16:36
a
16:36
Camry,
16:37
though.
16:37
That's
16:37
funny.
16:37
But
16:38
it.
16:38
It
16:38
just
16:38
became
16:39
clear
16:39
that,
16:39
like,
16:39
I
16:40
was
16:40
playing
16:40
someone
16:41
else's
16:41
game
16:43
and
16:44
not,
16:44
well,
16:45
not.
16:46
Not
16:46
great
16:46
for
16:47
them.
16:47
Like,
16:48
I
16:48
kind
16:48
of
16:48
even
16:49
realized,
16:49
Mikey,
16:50
I'm.
16:50
I'm
16:50
kind
16:50
of
16:50
unemployable.
16:52
I'm
16:52
not
16:52
a
16:52
good
16:53
employee.
16:53
Right.
16:55
I
16:55
see
16:55
things
16:55
and
16:56
I
16:56
want
16:56
to
16:56
go
16:56
do
16:57
stuff
16:58
and
16:58
to
16:58
get
16:59
stymied
17:00
and
17:00
to
17:01
have
17:01
people
17:01
question
17:01
that
17:02
and
17:02
to
17:03
be
17:03
like,
17:03
wow,
17:03
God,
17:04
am
17:04
I
17:04
dumb.
17:05
Did
17:05
I
17:05
just
17:05
not
17:05
get
17:06
it?
17:06
Or
17:07
just
17:07
the
17:07
constant
17:08
budget
17:09
battles
17:09
and
17:10
headcount
17:10
and
17:12
lick
17:12
the
17:12
fingers,
17:13
stick
17:13
it
17:13
up
17:13
to
17:13
the
17:13
wind.
17:14
Which
17:14
way
17:14
is
17:14
the
17:14
wind
17:14
blowing?
17:15
Should
17:15
I
17:15
pitch
17:15
it
17:15
this
17:15
way?
17:16
Should
17:16
I
17:16
come
17:16
in
17:16
hard
17:16
this
17:17
way?
17:17
I
17:17
was
17:18
like,
17:18
this
17:18
is
17:18
just
17:18
kind
17:19
of
17:20
soul
17:20
sucking
17:21
and
17:22
not
17:22
fun
17:23
anymore.
17:24
And
17:25
what
17:26
I
17:26
sort
17:26
of
17:26
realized
17:27
along
17:27
the
17:27
way
17:27
is
17:28
that
17:28
we're
17:29
all
17:29
making
17:29
it
17:29
up
17:30
as
17:30
we
17:30
go,
17:31
right?
17:31
100%
17:33
all
17:34
making
17:34
it
17:34
up.
17:34
Yeah.
17:35
Yeah.
17:36
And
17:36
that's
17:37
the
17:37
fun
17:37
part.
17:38
Your
17:38
Twitter
17:38
bio,
17:39
which
17:39
you
17:39
left.
17:40
The
17:41
idea
17:41
of
17:42
getting
17:42
lost
17:43
to
17:43
find
17:44
yourself
17:44
is
17:45
essentially
17:45
the.
17:46
I
17:46
love
17:47
that
17:47
because.
17:48
Thank
17:48
you.
17:49
That's
17:49
the
17:49
idea
17:50
of
17:50
basically
17:50
just
17:51
throwing
17:51
ourselves
17:51
out
17:52
there.
17:52
And,
17:53
yeah,
17:54
as
17:54
human
17:54
beings,
17:55
we
17:55
naturally,
17:56
as
17:57
we
17:57
get
17:57
older,
17:58
the
17:59
saying
17:59
is,
17:59
as
17:59
you
17:59
get
18:00
older,
18:00
you
18:00
get
18:01
more
18:01
inclined
18:02
to
18:02
go
18:03
for
18:03
comfort
18:04
over
18:05
something
18:05
new.
18:06
And
18:07
actually,
18:07
again,
18:08
I
18:08
don't
18:08
know
18:08
your
18:08
age
18:09
either,
18:09
and
18:10
I
18:10
don't
18:10
need
18:10
to.
18:10
But
18:11
the
18:11
point
18:11
is,
18:11
you
18:12
get
18:12
to
18:12
that
18:12
point
18:12
where
18:13
you
18:13
go,
18:13
I'm
18:14
still
18:14
going
18:14
to
18:14
do
18:14
this.
18:14
I'm
18:15
going
18:15
to
18:15
go
18:15
for
18:15
this.
18:16
So
18:17
age,
18:18
I'm
18:18
sure
18:18
you
18:18
would
18:19
agree
18:19
with
18:19
this
18:19
age,
18:20
and
18:21
being
18:21
stuck
18:22
in
18:22
something,
18:23
stuck,
18:23
you
18:24
know,
18:24
for
18:24
25
18:24
years
18:25
or
18:25
whatever,
18:26
shouldn't
18:26
be
18:26
a
18:27
reason
18:27
for
18:27
you
18:27
not
18:28
to
18:28
go
18:28
for
18:28
that
18:29
thing
18:29
that
18:29
you
18:29
really
18:30
want
18:30
to
18:30
do.
18:32
Why
18:32
do
18:32
you
18:32
believe
18:33
that?
18:33
Because
18:33
I
18:33
know
18:33
you
18:34
and
18:34
I
18:34
discussed
18:34
that
18:34
and,
18:35
like,
18:35
what's
18:35
your
18:35
own
18:35
personal
18:36
philosophy
18:36
on
18:37
why
18:37
you
18:37
have
18:38
to
18:39
do
18:39
that?
18:39
I
18:39
don't
18:39
know
18:40
that
18:40
I
18:40
have
18:40
a
18:40
philosophy,
18:41
per
18:41
se,
18:41
but
18:42
I
18:42
think
18:42
at
18:42
a
18:43
certain
18:43
point,
18:43
you
18:43
have
18:44
to
18:44
honor
18:47
that
18:47
incoming
18:48
feedback
18:48
or
18:49
that.
18:49
That
18:49
sort
18:49
of
18:49
information
18:50
from
18:50
the
18:50
universe
18:51
that,
18:51
look,
18:52
yeah,
18:52
you've
18:52
done
18:52
this
18:53
for
18:53
so
18:53
long,
18:53
but,
18:54
hey,
18:54
there's
18:54
this
18:54
thing
18:55
over
18:55
here
18:56
that
18:56
that's
18:57
kind
18:57
of
18:57
set
18:58
up
18:58
for
18:58
you
18:58
to
18:58
go
18:58
do.
18:59
Right.
19:00
I
19:01
had
19:01
no
19:01
answers
19:02
when
19:02
I
19:02
started
19:02
this
19:03
thing.
19:03
I
19:03
spent
19:03
six
19:04
months
19:04
trying
19:04
to
19:04
figure
19:04
out
19:05
my
19:05
visa
19:05
situation.
19:06
I
19:07
had
19:07
to
19:07
go
19:07
get,
19:08
you
19:08
know,
19:08
a
19:08
bank
19:09
account
19:09
for
19:09
the
19:09
business,
19:10
get
19:10
my
19:10
VAT
19:10
registered,
19:11
go
19:11
get.
19:12
I
19:12
had
19:12
to
19:12
do
19:12
everything
19:13
from
19:13
scratch,
19:13
adult
19:14
stuff.
19:15
I
19:16
had
19:16
zero
19:16
credibility
19:17
in
19:18
the
19:18
music
19:18
industry.
19:19
I've
19:20
never
19:20
worked
19:20
in
19:20
the
19:20
music
19:21
industry
19:21
before.
19:22
My
19:22
career,
19:23
my
19:23
network,
19:23
my
19:23
name
19:24
was
19:24
all
19:24
in
19:25
enterprise
19:25
software.
19:26
So
19:26
I
19:26
remember
19:27
going
19:27
to
19:27
a
19:28
conference
19:28
from
19:28
sort
19:29
of
19:29
my
19:29
old
19:29
life
19:29
and
19:30
thinking,
19:30
none
19:31
of
19:31
these
19:31
people
19:31
can
19:32
help
19:32
me.
19:33
How
19:33
amazing
19:34
is
19:34
that?
19:34
I
19:34
know
19:35
all
19:35
these
19:35
people
19:36
and
19:36
nobody
19:37
can
19:37
do
19:37
anything
19:39
for
19:39
me.
19:39
There
19:39
were
19:39
a
19:39
few
19:40
connections
19:40
that
19:40
I
19:41
was
19:41
able
19:41
to
19:41
navigate
19:42
to,
19:42
but
19:42
I
19:42
basically
19:42
had
19:43
to
19:43
start
19:43
over.
19:44
And
19:45
I
19:45
don't
19:45
say
19:45
that
19:46
to
19:46
crow
19:47
or
19:47
to
19:47
make
19:48
myself
19:48
feel
19:48
good.
19:49
It's
19:49
purely
19:49
insane.
19:51
What
19:51
I
19:51
did
19:51
was
19:51
ridiculous,
19:52
right?
19:53
And
19:54
bet
19:54
our
19:54
savings
19:55
and
19:55
bet
19:55
our
19:55
comfort
19:56
and
19:56
bet
19:56
our
19:57
children's
19:58
futures
19:59
in
19:59
many
19:59
ways.
20:00
Right.
20:00
Who
20:00
are
20:00
extremely
20:01
happy
20:01
here
20:02
and
20:02
love
20:02
living
20:03
in
20:03
London.
20:03
And
20:04
it
20:04
took
20:04
me
20:04
23
20:05
years
20:05
to
20:05
convince
20:06
my
20:06
wife
20:06
to
20:06
move
20:07
here.
20:07
She
20:07
came
20:07
with
20:08
me
20:08
in
20:08
1999
20:09
as
20:09
my
20:09
girlfriend.
20:10
And
20:10
so,
20:11
in
20:11
some
20:11
ways,
20:12
I
20:12
feel
20:12
like
20:12
I'm
20:13
living
20:13
my
20:13
life
20:14
in
20:14
reverse.
20:15
Or
20:15
the
20:15
things
20:16
that
20:16
are
20:16
happening
20:16
now
20:17
only
20:17
make
20:17
sense
20:18
now
20:19
because
20:19
of
20:20
everything
20:20
that
20:20
happened
20:21
before.
20:22
And
20:22
to
20:23
an
20:23
extent,
20:24
I
20:24
don't
20:24
feel
20:25
like
20:25
I
20:25
have
20:25
a
20:25
choice.
20:26
I
20:26
have
20:26
to
20:26
do
20:26
this
20:27
work.
20:27
I
20:27
may
20:28
still
20:28
fail,
20:29
I
20:29
may
20:29
still
20:30
flop.
20:31
I
20:31
may
20:31
still,
20:32
you
20:32
know,
20:32
I
20:32
could
20:32
run
20:32
out
20:32
of
20:33
money,
20:33
I
20:33
could
20:33
run
20:33
out
20:34
of
20:34
energy
20:34
or
20:35
what
20:35
have
20:35
you,
20:37
but
20:37
I
20:37
couldn't
20:38
not
20:38
try
20:39
this.
20:39
And
20:40
I
20:40
think
20:40
maybe
20:41
the
20:41
other
20:41
thing
20:41
that
20:41
I
20:41
haven't
20:42
mentioned
20:42
is
20:42
that
20:43
I
20:43
felt
20:43
like
20:44
the
20:44
time
20:44
was
20:44
right
20:45
in
20:45
the
20:45
market
20:46
as
20:46
well.
20:47
And
20:48
maybe
20:48
that's
20:48
a
20:48
great
20:48
segue
20:49
into
20:50
who
20:51
in
20:51
the
20:51
world
20:52
thinks
20:52
it's
20:52
a
20:52
good
20:52
idea
20:53
to
20:53
take
20:53
on
20:53
Spotify
20:54
now?
20:56
What
20:56
are
20:57
you
20:57
thinking,
20:58
Scott?
20:59
But
21:00
you're
21:00
the
21:00
host.
21:01
Yeah,
21:02
of
21:02
course,
21:02
of
21:02
course.
21:02
So,
21:03
I
21:03
mean,
21:03
you
21:03
spoke
21:04
about
21:05
to
21:05
touch
21:05
on
21:05
that
21:06
point
21:06
and
21:06
taking
21:07
on
21:07
Spotify
21:08
head
21:08
on.
21:08
You
21:08
spoke
21:09
about
21:09
ignoring
21:10
the
21:10
investor
21:10
who
21:11
wanted
21:11
to
21:12
whittle
21:13
it
21:13
down
21:13
and
21:14
test
21:15
prematurely.
21:16
What
21:17
do
21:17
you
21:17
think
21:19
the
21:19
single
21:19
fastest
21:20
way
21:20
a
21:20
founder
21:21
can.
21:22
Can
21:22
use
21:23
to
21:23
shut
21:24
down
21:24
the
21:24
voices
21:25
and
21:26
I
21:26
guess
21:26
know
21:26
the
21:26
difference
21:27
between
21:28
good
21:28
value
21:29
and
21:30
bad
21:30
advice?
21:32
Yeah,
21:32
I
21:32
don't
21:32
think
21:32
this
21:33
was
21:33
bad
21:33
advice
21:33
per
21:34
se,
21:34
but
21:34
it
21:35
forced
21:35
me
21:35
to
21:36
reconcile
21:36
something
21:37
that
21:37
I
21:37
hadn't
21:38
yet
21:38
figured
21:38
out.
21:39
I
21:39
was
21:39
a
21:39
product
21:40
manager
21:40
for
21:40
a
21:40
very
21:41
long
21:41
time,
21:42
and
21:42
product
21:43
managers
21:43
in
21:44
my
21:44
world
21:44
were
21:45
asked
21:45
to
21:45
do
21:45
three
21:46
things.
21:46
To
21:46
figure
21:46
out
21:46
who
21:47
we're
21:47
serving,
21:47
figure
21:48
out
21:48
what
21:48
we're
21:48
going
21:48
to
21:48
build
21:49
for
21:49
them,
21:49
and
21:49
figure
21:49
out
21:50
why
21:50
it's
21:50
this
21:50
thing
21:50
over
21:51
everything
21:51
else.
21:51
Why
21:52
we
21:52
go
21:52
now,
21:52
why
21:52
we
21:53
go
21:53
here,
21:53
why
21:53
we
21:53
do
21:53
all
21:54
this.
21:54
Right.
21:55
And
21:55
so
21:55
who,
21:56
why
21:56
became
21:56
just
21:57
like,
21:57
drilled
21:57
into
21:58
my
21:58
head.
21:58
I
21:58
could
21:58
answer
21:59
that
21:59
in
21:59
my
21:59
sleep
22:00
again.
22:02
And
22:02
I
22:03
learned
22:03
to
22:03
sort
22:03
of
22:04
find
22:04
this
22:05
alignment
22:06
in
22:06
all
22:06
three
22:07
of
22:07
those
22:07
questions.
22:07
And
22:08
to
22:08
be
22:08
able
22:08
to
22:08
say,
22:08
like,
22:09
this
22:09
all
22:10
feels
22:10
consistent.
22:11
And
22:11
I
22:11
could
22:11
feel
22:12
when
22:12
it
22:12
was
22:12
jagged
22:13
or
22:13
when
22:13
it
22:13
was
22:14
off
22:14
or
22:14
when
22:14
I
22:14
was
22:15
compressed,
22:15
and
22:15
it
22:16
didn't
22:16
quite
22:16
sit
22:17
well
22:17
with
22:17
me.
22:18
Right.
22:19
And,
22:20
you
22:20
know,
22:20
I'll
22:20
say
22:20
maybe
22:21
the
22:21
first
22:21
year,
22:22
I've
22:22
been
22:22
working
22:22
on
22:23
foreplay
22:23
for
22:24
almost
22:24
two
22:24
years.
22:24
I
22:25
really
22:25
started
22:26
April
22:26
of
22:27
24
22:28
officially,
22:29
like
22:29
full
22:29
on,
22:30
heads
22:30
down,
22:30
working
22:30
on
22:31
this
22:31
thing.
22:31
And
22:32
that
22:32
first
22:32
year
22:33
was
22:33
a
22:33
lot
22:33
of
22:34
really
22:34
crooked,
22:35
uncomfortable
22:36
feelings
22:37
in
22:37
my
22:37
body
22:38
and
22:38
my
22:38
head
22:38
and
22:38
my
22:39
whole
22:39
being,
22:39
right?
22:40
And
22:41
anytime
22:42
this
22:42
sort
22:42
of
22:42
stimulus
22:43
came
22:43
in
22:43
where
22:43
it
22:43
was
22:43
like,
22:44
you
22:44
need
22:44
to
22:44
be
22:44
over
22:44
here
22:45
or
22:45
you
22:45
can't
22:45
do
22:45
it
22:45
that
22:46
way,
22:46
or
22:46
what
22:46
in
22:47
the
22:47
world
22:47
are
22:47
you
22:47
thinking?
22:47
And
22:48
whoa,
22:48
whoa,
22:48
whoa,
22:48
whoa,
22:48
whoa,
22:49
whoa,
22:49
whoa,
22:49
get
22:49
back
22:49
in
22:50
line.
22:50
It
22:50
was
22:50
like
22:51
another
22:51
sort
22:52
of
22:52
just,
22:53
you
22:54
know,
22:54
my
22:54
body
22:54
would
22:55
Almost
22:55
feel
22:55
these
22:56
brunt
22:56
the
22:57
blow.
22:57
And.
22:58
And
22:59
it
22:59
was
22:59
like,
22:59
okay,
22:59
that.
22:59
That
23:00
doesn't
23:00
feel
23:00
right.
23:01
That
23:01
doesn't
23:01
feel
23:02
like
23:02
what
23:03
I
23:03
see
23:03
and
23:04
what
23:04
I
23:04
believe
23:04
to
23:05
be
23:05
true.
23:05
And
23:06
so
23:06
a
23:07
lot
23:07
of
23:07
times
23:07
I
23:07
had
23:07
to
23:08
just
23:08
sit
23:08
with
23:08
it
23:09
and
23:09
I
23:09
had
23:09
to
23:10
let
23:10
it
23:10
sort
23:10
of
23:10
take
23:11
its
23:11
effect
23:11
on
23:11
me
23:11
and
23:12
realize
23:12
that,
23:12
no,
23:12
that's
23:13
not
23:13
right.
23:13
That
23:13
isn't
23:14
what
23:14
I'm
23:14
going
23:14
to
23:14
do.
23:14
That
23:15
isn't
23:15
what.
23:15
What
23:16
we
23:16
need
23:16
to
23:16
do
23:16
in
23:16
this
23:16
moment.
23:17
And
23:17
as
23:17
a
23:17
matter
23:17
of
23:17
fact,
23:17
going
23:18
down
23:18
that
23:18
path
23:18
is
23:19
a
23:19
dead
23:19
end.
23:20
And
23:20
I
23:20
don't
23:21
want
23:21
to
23:21
do
23:21
it.
23:21
I'm
23:21
not
23:22
going
23:22
to
23:22
do
23:22
it.
23:23
It's
23:23
sort
23:23
of
23:23
this
23:23
defiance
23:24
and
23:25
this
23:25
equal
23:26
parts
23:26
delusion,
23:27
but
23:29
it's
23:29
like
23:29
I
23:29
see
23:30
a
23:30
thing,
23:30
I
23:31
believe
23:31
so
23:31
strongly
23:32
in
23:32
it,
23:32
I
23:33
don't
23:33
know
23:33
the
23:33
exact
23:34
path
23:34
to
23:34
it,
23:35
but
23:35
I
23:35
know
23:36
that's
23:36
not
23:36
going
23:36
to
23:36
get
23:36
me
23:37
there.
23:37
And
23:37
so
23:37
I'm
23:38
not
23:38
even
23:38
going
23:38
to
23:38
entertain
23:39
it.
23:40
I
23:40
may
23:40
be
23:40
wrong.
23:41
This
23:41
investor
23:42
may
23:42
have
23:42
been
23:42
spot
23:42
on.
23:43
I
23:43
don't
23:43
know.
23:44
But
23:44
that
23:44
was
23:44
a
23:44
different
23:45
business
23:45
from
23:45
the
23:46
one
23:46
I
23:46
was
23:46
pitching.
23:47
And
23:47
it
23:48
really
23:49
was
23:49
a
23:49
foundational
23:50
moment
23:50
for
23:50
me
23:50
to
23:50
understand.
23:52
I
23:52
did
23:52
have
23:53
clarity,
23:53
I
23:54
did
23:54
know
23:54
what
23:54
I
23:55
wanted,
23:55
and
23:55
I
23:55
do
23:56
know
23:56
how
23:56
to
23:56
get
23:56
there.
23:57
I
23:57
may
23:58
not
23:58
know
23:59
everything
23:59
along
24:00
that
24:00
journey,
24:00
but
24:01
I
24:01
know
24:02
what
24:02
the
24:02
destination
24:03
looks
24:03
like.
24:04
And
24:04
I
24:04
think
24:05
ultimately,
24:05
for
24:06
me
24:06
at
24:06
least,
24:06
I
24:06
have
24:07
to
24:07
sit
24:07
in
24:07
that.
24:07
I
24:07
have
24:08
to
24:08
feel
24:08
that.
24:09
I
24:09
have
24:09
to
24:09
feel
24:09
the
24:10
compression
24:10
and
24:11
the
24:11
crunchiness
24:12
and
24:12
know
24:12
that,
24:13
yeah,
24:13
that's
24:14
not
24:14
it.
24:14
That's
24:14
not
24:14
right.
24:15
I
24:15
can't
24:15
do
24:15
that.
24:16
I
24:16
see
24:16
this
24:16
thing
24:17
and
24:17
I'm
24:17
going
24:17
to
24:17
go
24:17
for
24:17
it.
24:18
So
24:19
is
24:19
it
24:20
a
24:20
philosophy?
24:20
I
24:20
don't
24:21
know.
24:21
It's
24:22
something
24:22
I've
24:23
learned
24:23
to
24:23
sort
24:23
of
24:25
bring
24:25
in
24:26
and
24:26
sit
24:27
with
24:28
in
24:28
a
24:28
sort
24:28
of
24:28
almost.
24:29
I
24:29
wouldn't
24:30
call
24:30
it
24:30
meditation,
24:31
but
24:31
I
24:31
think
24:32
it's
24:32
like,
24:32
you
24:33
try
24:33
it
24:33
on.
24:33
Does
24:34
it
24:34
fit?
24:34
Does
24:34
it
24:34
feel
24:35
right?
24:35
Can
24:35
you
24:35
move
24:35
around?
24:36
No,
24:36
it
24:36
doesn't.
24:37
This
24:37
is
24:37
actually
24:37
really
24:38
uncomfortable.
24:38
I'm
24:39
going
24:39
to
24:39
take
24:39
that
24:39
off
24:39
and
24:39
I'm
24:39
going
24:40
to
24:40
find
24:40
something
24:40
that
24:40
does
24:40
work
24:41
for
24:41
me.
24:42
It's
24:42
interesting
24:43
because
24:43
you're
24:43
talking
24:45
from.
24:45
From
24:45
what
24:45
I've
24:46
heard
24:46
you
24:46
say
24:46
about
24:46
the
24:47
idea
24:47
of,
24:47
like
24:47
the
24:48
mental,
24:49
physical
24:50
impact
24:50
of.
24:51
Of
24:51
kind
24:51
of
24:51
charting
24:52
your
24:52
own
24:52
journey
24:52
and
24:53
knowing
24:53
where
24:53
you're
24:54
trying
24:54
to
24:54
get,
24:54
but
24:55
like
24:55
the
24:55
uncomfortable
24:56
truth
24:56
about
24:57
running
24:58
your
24:58
own
24:58
business
24:58
and
24:59
just
24:59
like,
24:59
oh,
25:00
my
25:00
God,
25:00
I.
25:01
All
25:01
this
25:01
stuff's
25:02
coming
25:02
at
25:02
me
25:03
and
25:04
I.
25:04
It's
25:05
me.
25:05
Me
25:06
and
25:06
me
25:07
and
25:07
your
25:08
business
25:08
partner
25:08
making
25:10
all
25:10
these
25:10
decisions.
25:11
The
25:11
interesting
25:12
question
25:12
for
25:13
me
25:13
and
25:13
like,
25:14
I
25:14
know
25:14
every
25:15
Founder
25:15
listening
25:15
is
25:16
how
25:17
do
25:17
you.
25:18
So
25:18
you
25:18
talk
25:18
about
25:19
meditation
25:19
helping
25:20
you.
25:21
You
25:21
talk
25:21
about
25:22
taking
25:23
a
25:23
step
25:23
back
25:24
and
25:24
trying
25:25
to
25:26
realize
25:27
the
25:27
difference
25:27
between,
25:28
you
25:29
know,
25:29
the
25:30
fear
25:31
and
25:33
actual,
25:33
you
25:34
know,
25:34
patterns.
25:35
What
25:35
advice
25:35
would
25:36
you
25:36
give
25:36
a
25:36
founder
25:37
who's
25:37
in
25:37
that
25:38
uncomfortable
25:38
world
25:39
like
25:39
you
25:40
have
25:40
been
25:41
and
25:41
are
25:42
about
25:43
how
25:43
to
25:43
navigate
25:43
that?
25:44
I
25:45
think
25:45
you
25:45
need
25:45
to
25:45
lean
25:46
into
25:46
it.
25:47
I
25:48
remember
25:48
early
25:49
in
25:49
my
25:49
product
25:50
manager
25:50
career
25:51
getting
25:52
kind
25:52
of
25:52
caught
25:53
out
25:53
on
25:53
some
25:54
ambiguity
25:54
and
25:54
uncertainty
25:55
that
25:55
I
25:55
didn't
25:56
understand.
25:57
And
25:57
so
25:57
we
25:58
just
25:58
sort
25:58
of
25:58
like,
25:58
well,
25:59
we'll
25:59
deal
25:59
with
25:59
that
25:59
later.
26:00
Right?
26:01
And
26:01
went
26:02
headfirst
26:02
into
26:03
the
26:03
wall.
26:04
And
26:04
so
26:05
I
26:05
learned
26:06
the
26:06
hard
26:06
way
26:06
to
26:07
sort
26:07
of
26:07
say
26:07
like,
26:08
okay,
26:08
what,
26:09
what's
26:09
happening
26:10
around
26:10
me?
26:11
What
26:11
do
26:11
I
26:11
understand?
26:12
What
26:12
don't
26:12
I
26:12
understand?
26:13
What
26:13
do
26:13
I
26:13
know?
26:13
I
26:13
don't
26:14
know.
26:14
That
26:14
old
26:15
chestnut
26:16
of
26:16
I
26:16
know,
26:16
I
26:16
don't
26:17
know
26:17
that.
26:18
I
26:18
don't
26:18
know,
26:18
I
26:18
don't
26:19
know
26:19
that.
26:19
And
26:20
you
26:20
can
26:20
feel
26:20
fill
26:21
in
26:21
the
26:21
rest.
26:21
But
26:22
to
26:23
me,
26:23
it's,
26:23
it's
26:23
answering
26:24
those
26:24
uncomfortable
26:25
questions
26:26
and
26:26
even
26:27
just
26:27
feeling
26:28
the
26:28
discomfort
26:29
in
26:29
not
26:29
knowing
26:30
the
26:30
answers
26:31
or
26:31
even
26:31
the
26:31
right
26:32
questions
26:32
to
26:32
answer.
26:33
And
26:33
I
26:34
became
26:34
hyper
26:35
tuned
26:35
to
26:38
just
26:38
this
26:39
weird
26:39
absence
26:40
of
26:40
certainty,
26:41
which
26:42
is
26:42
a
26:42
strange
26:42
thing
26:43
to
26:43
talk
26:43
about
26:43
as
26:44
an
26:44
entrepreneur
26:45
when
26:45
so
26:45
much
26:45
of
26:45
it
26:46
is
26:46
like,
26:46
I'm
26:46
certain.
26:47
I
26:47
mean,
26:47
I
26:47
just
26:48
did
26:48
five
26:48
minutes
26:49
on
26:49
this.
26:49
Like,
26:50
I
26:50
know
26:50
better
26:51
than
26:51
everyone,
26:51
right.
26:52
But
26:52
I
26:52
know
26:52
because
26:53
I've
26:53
sat
26:53
with
26:53
all,
26:54
all
26:54
the
26:54
other
26:54
stuff
26:56
and
26:56
I've
26:56
dwelled
26:57
on
26:57
and
26:58
like
26:59
bathed
27:00
in
27:00
this
27:01
discomfort
27:01
for
27:02
so
27:02
long
27:02
to
27:03
know,
27:04
hey,
27:04
that
27:04
isn't
27:04
it.
27:05
I'm
27:05
not
27:06
going
27:06
there.
27:07
I
27:07
know
27:07
this
27:08
is
27:08
the
27:08
path
27:08
I
27:09
need
27:09
to
27:09
be
27:09
on
27:10
now.
27:10
That
27:10
path
27:11
may
27:11
diverge
27:11
and
27:12
new
27:12
information
27:12
may
27:12
come
27:13
in
27:13
and
27:13
I'll
27:13
be
27:13
able
27:14
to
27:14
process
27:14
and
27:14
handle
27:15
that.
27:15
But
27:15
like,
27:16
sitting
27:16
with
27:17
a
27:17
discomfort
27:18
is
27:18
a
27:18
really
27:18
important
27:19
thing
27:19
to
27:19
do
27:20
and
27:20
I
27:20
haven't
27:20
found
27:20
a
27:21
shortcut
27:21
around
27:21
it,
27:21
unfortunately.
27:22
I
27:22
think
27:22
this
27:22
is
27:22
part
27:22
of
27:22
the
27:22
deep
27:23
end.
27:23
One
27:24
of
27:24
the
27:24
many
27:24
reasons
27:25
why
27:25
I
27:25
thought
27:25
you'd
27:25
be
27:25
a
27:26
great
27:26
guest
27:26
for
27:27
founders
27:27
listening
27:28
is
27:28
because
27:28
you're
27:29
so
27:29
open
27:30
about
27:30
the.
27:31
Yeah,
27:32
why
27:32
not?
27:33
Well,
27:33
yeah,
27:34
I'm
27:34
the
27:35
same.
27:35
Like,
27:35
I've
27:36
been
27:36
through
27:36
plenty
27:37
of.
27:37
This
27:38
isn't
27:38
about
27:38
me,
27:38
but
27:39
I've
27:39
been
27:39
through
27:39
plenty
27:40
of
27:40
ups
27:41
and
27:41
downs
27:41
through
27:41
the
27:42
years.
27:42
And
27:42
the
27:42
one
27:42
thing
27:42
that
27:43
I'd
27:43
say
27:43
is
27:44
the
27:45
honesty
27:46
that
27:46
you
27:47
share
27:47
about
27:47
the
27:47
fact
27:48
of
27:48
not
27:49
knowing.
27:49
And
27:49
by
27:50
the
27:50
way,
27:50
none
27:50
of
27:50
us
27:51
know.
27:51
We
27:51
know.
27:51
It's
27:52
like
27:52
a
27:52
GPS
27:53
with
27:53
a
27:53
destination.
27:54
Yeah.
27:55
No,
27:55
route
27:55
planner.
27:56
Yeah.
27:57
In
27:57
fact,
27:57
it's,
27:57
it's
27:58
like
27:58
zero
27:58
gps.
28:00
Yeah.
28:00
It's
28:00
a
28:01
vague
28:01
destination.
28:02
Yeah.
28:02
Yeah.
28:03
Yeah.
28:03
And
28:03
it
28:04
would
28:04
change.
28:04
And
28:04
it's
28:05
okay
28:05
if
28:05
it
28:05
changes
28:06
and
28:06
adapts
28:07
to
28:07
get
28:07
you
28:07
to
28:07
where
28:08
you
28:08
need
28:08
to
28:08
go.
28:09
That
28:09
sometimes
28:10
that's
28:10
the
28:10
feature.
28:11
Yeah,
28:12
yeah.
28:12
And
28:12
so
28:13
you
28:13
talk
28:13
about
28:14
this
28:14
idea
28:14
of.
28:15
Of
28:15
getting
28:17
comfortable
28:17
with
28:17
the
28:17
uncertainty.
28:19
How
28:19
do
28:19
you
28:20
maintain,
28:20
like,
28:21
a
28:21
clarity
28:21
of
28:22
purpose
28:22
for
28:22
yourself
28:24
when
28:24
you
28:24
have
28:25
to
28:25
use
28:26
a
28:26
quote
28:26
from
28:26
our
28:26
last
28:27
conversation.
28:28
No
28:28
idea
28:29
how.
28:29
I
28:30
have
28:30
no
28:30
idea
28:31
when.
28:32
Yeah,
28:32
yeah.
28:32
How
28:33
do
28:33
you.
28:34
Yeah.
28:35
I
28:36
think
28:36
this
28:36
is
28:36
the
28:37
ultimate
28:38
sort
28:38
of
28:40
honest,
28:40
ground
28:41
level
28:41
truth.
28:42
We
28:43
don't
28:43
control
28:44
anything.
28:45
Right.
28:46
As
28:47
an
28:47
entrepreneur,
28:48
the
28:48
things
28:48
in
28:48
my
28:48
control
28:49
are
28:50
basically
28:50
our
28:50
budget,
28:51
our
28:51
money,
28:51
our
28:51
spending,
28:53
and
28:53
our
28:53
focus.
28:54
I
28:54
remember
28:54
seeing
28:55
this
28:56
quote
28:56
from
28:57
Andy
28:57
Dunn,
28:58
the
28:58
CEO
28:58
of
28:59
Bonobos,
29:00
who
29:00
sold
29:01
his
29:01
company
29:01
to
29:01
Walmart,
29:02
and
29:02
he
29:03
said,
29:03
there's
29:03
only
29:03
two
29:04
things
29:04
the
29:04
CEO
29:04
can
29:05
do,
29:05
and
29:06
that
29:06
is
29:06
to.
29:08
Oh,
29:08
shit,
29:09
I'm
29:09
blanking.
29:10
Okay,
29:10
let's
29:10
skip
29:10
this
29:11
part
29:11
entirely.
29:11
I'm
29:12
so
29:12
sorry.
29:12
That's
29:13
such
29:13
a
29:13
great
29:13
anecdote.
29:19
Yeah,
29:20
it's.
29:21
Oh,
29:21
I
29:22
got
29:22
it,
29:22
I
29:22
got
29:22
it,
29:22
I
29:22
got
29:22
it.
29:23
Okay.
29:23
Yeah,
29:23
there
29:23
you
29:23
go.
29:24
So
29:24
I'm
29:24
gonna
29:24
leave.
29:24
I'm
29:25
gonna
29:25
leave,
29:25
I'm
29:25
gonna
29:25
leave.
29:26
No,
29:26
I've
29:26
gotta.
29:26
The
29:27
thing
29:27
is,
29:27
this
29:28
is
29:28
the.
29:28
The
29:29
truth
29:29
of
29:30
podcasting.
29:31
We're
29:31
just.
29:31
Let's
29:32
go
29:32
for
29:32
it.
29:32
So
29:32
I
29:32
choked
29:33
on
29:33
my
29:33
own
29:33
words,
29:33
but
29:33
I
29:34
remembered
29:34
two
29:34
things
29:35
create
29:35
hope,
29:36
define
29:36
reality.
29:37
And
29:38
it's
29:38
dealing
29:38
in
29:39
this
29:39
duality
29:39
of
29:40
like,
29:40
yes,
29:40
this
29:40
is
29:41
the
29:41
dream
29:41
and
29:41
yes,
29:42
this
29:42
is
29:42
what
29:42
we're
29:42
going
29:42
for.
29:43
But,
29:43
like,
29:43
here's
29:43
the
29:43
reality
29:44
of
29:44
the
29:44
situation.
29:45
We
29:45
don't
29:46
know
29:46
this,
29:46
we
29:46
don't
29:46
know
29:46
that.
29:47
We
29:47
have
29:47
no
29:47
idea
29:47
where
29:47
our
29:48
money's
29:48
coming
29:48
from.
29:48
We
29:48
don't
29:49
like
29:49
on
29:49
and
29:49
on
29:49
and
29:50
on
29:50
and
29:50
on
29:50
and
29:50
on.
29:51
And
29:52
it's
29:52
this
29:52
sort
29:52
of
29:53
willful.
29:56
It
29:56
isn't
29:56
delusion
29:57
or
29:57
ignorance,
29:57
but
29:57
it's
29:58
holding
29:58
both
29:58
those
29:58
truths
29:59
in
29:59
your
29:59
mind
29:59
at
30:00
the
30:00
same
30:00
time.
30:01
Yes,
30:02
objectively
30:03
true,
30:03
our
30:03
reality
30:04
sucks
30:05
right
30:05
now.
30:05
Right.
30:07
But
30:07
we
30:07
remain
30:08
hopeful
30:09
and
30:09
we've
30:09
got
30:09
a
30:10
big
30:10
idea
30:10
that
30:10
we're
30:11
chasing,
30:12
and
30:12
until
30:12
that
30:12
proves
30:13
impossible,
30:14
we're
30:14
going
30:14
for
30:14
it.
30:15
Right.
30:16
And
30:16
I
30:16
think
30:16
it's
30:17
this
30:17
tension
30:17
between
30:18
the
30:18
two
30:18
that
30:18
is.
30:19
That
30:19
is
30:19
tough.
30:20
But
30:20
being
30:21
a
30:21
product
30:21
manager
30:22
for
30:22
so
30:22
long,
30:22
well,
30:23
that
30:23
was
30:23
sort
30:24
of
30:24
the
30:24
world
30:24
I
30:24
lived
30:24
in,
30:25
right?
30:25
Here's
30:25
the
30:26
state
30:26
of
30:26
the
30:26
backlog,
30:26
here's
30:27
the
30:27
state
30:27
of
30:27
the
30:27
product.
30:27
We
30:27
got
30:28
all
30:28
these
30:28
bugs,
30:28
we
30:28
got
30:28
all
30:28
these
30:29
customers
30:29
angry
30:29
with
30:30
us.
30:30
We
30:30
need
30:30
to
30:31
do
30:31
all
30:31
these
30:31
other
30:31
things.
30:31
We've
30:32
got
30:32
operational
30:32
burden,
30:33
we've
30:33
got
30:33
on
30:34
call
30:34
engineers
30:35
burned
30:35
out.
30:35
Like,
30:35
we
30:35
can't
30:36
deal
30:36
with
30:36
another
30:36
incident.
30:37
And
30:38
yet,
30:39
hey,
30:39
we're
30:39
building
30:40
this
30:40
really
30:40
amazing
30:41
thing,
30:41
and
30:41
if
30:41
we
30:41
keep
30:42
at
30:42
it,
30:42
if
30:42
we
30:42
keep
30:42
making
30:43
incremental
30:43
progress,
30:44
we're
30:44
going
30:44
to
30:44
get
30:44
to
30:44
something
30:45
really
30:45
great.
30:46
And,
30:47
you
30:47
know,
30:47
there's.
30:48
There's
30:48
lessons
30:48
in
30:48
there
30:49
that
30:49
I
30:49
take
30:49
into
30:49
the
30:50
business
30:50
to
30:51
honor
30:51
both
30:51
sides,
30:52
to.
30:53
To
30:53
not,
30:53
you
30:54
know,
30:54
get
30:54
too
30:54
high
30:55
on
30:55
your
30:55
own
30:55
supply
30:56
on
30:56
either
30:56
side,
30:57
but
30:57
to.
30:57
To
30:58
realize
30:58
that,
30:58
yeah,
30:58
both
30:59
those
30:59
things
30:59
are
30:59
true
31:00
and
31:00
you
31:00
still
31:00
need
31:01
to
31:01
find
31:01
a
31:01
way
31:01
through.
31:02
And
31:03
that
31:03
is.
31:04
There's
31:04
no
31:05
art
31:05
to
31:05
that.
31:05
That
31:05
is
31:06
just
31:06
hard
31:07
living.
31:07
And
31:07
just
31:08
to
31:08
take
31:08
that
31:08
point
31:08
for
31:08
anybody
31:09
listening,
31:09
I
31:09
wholeheartedly
31:10
agree
31:10
with
31:11
what
31:11
Scott
31:11
said.
31:11
One
31:12
of
31:12
the
31:12
people
31:12
that
31:13
made
31:13
me
31:13
realize
31:13
that
31:14
was
31:14
then
31:15
one
31:15
of
31:15
those
31:15
actors
31:16
tables
31:16
where
31:17
I
31:17
think
31:17
it
31:17
was.
31:17
It
31:18
was
31:18
either
31:18
Seth
31:18
Rogen
31:19
or
31:19
Tom
31:19
Hanks.
31:19
Very
31:20
different
31:20
people.
31:21
But
31:21
they
31:21
were
31:22
talking
31:22
about
31:22
the
31:22
idea
31:23
that
31:23
effectively
31:24
you
31:24
just
31:24
have
31:24
to
31:25
keep
31:25
going
31:26
and
31:26
eventually
31:27
it
31:27
will
31:27
work
31:27
out
31:28
because
31:28
most
31:28
people
31:29
will
31:29
give
31:29
up.
31:30
Yeah.
31:30
Or
31:31
not.
31:31
But
31:32
the
31:32
point.
31:32
But
31:32
the
31:32
point
31:32
is
31:33
you
31:33
have
31:34
to
31:34
stick
31:34
with
31:34
it
31:34
and
31:35
believe
31:35
in
31:35
what
31:35
you're
31:36
doing.
31:36
That
31:36
belief
31:37
will
31:37
take
31:38
you,
31:39
even
31:39
if
31:39
it's
31:39
not
31:40
directly
31:40
to
31:40
the
31:40
thing.
31:41
It
31:41
might
31:41
be
31:41
adjacent
31:42
to
31:42
the
31:42
thing.
31:43
That's
31:43
far
31:44
better
31:44
than
31:44
being
31:45
stuck
31:45
in
31:45
a
31:45
life
31:46
doing
31:46
a
31:46
thing
31:46
that
31:46
you
31:47
don't
31:47
enjoy
31:48
for
31:49
money.
31:50
Because.
31:51
And
31:52
that's.
31:52
That's.
31:52
I'm
31:53
just
31:53
saying
31:53
that's
31:53
my
31:53
personal
31:54
opinion,
31:54
because
31:55
I've
31:55
been
31:55
there
31:55
and
31:55
done.
31:56
Done
31:56
the
31:56
money.
31:56
It's
31:56
not
31:57
a
31:57
bad
31:57
life.
31:57
I
31:57
did
31:58
it
31:58
for
31:58
a
31:58
long
31:58
time,
31:59
but
31:59
I
32:00
found
32:00
myself
32:00
sort
32:01
of.
32:01
I
32:01
got
32:01
a
32:01
friend
32:02
who
32:02
talks
32:02
about
32:02
spiritual
32:03
unemployment,
32:04
like,
32:04
yeah,
32:05
you're
32:05
making
32:05
money.
32:05
Yeah,
32:06
you
32:06
got
32:06
the
32:06
title.
32:06
Yeah,
32:06
Life
32:07
looks
32:07
great
32:07
from
32:07
the
32:07
outside.
32:08
We're
32:08
going
32:08
out
32:08
to
32:09
dinner,
32:09
we're
32:09
going
32:09
on
32:09
the
32:10
holiday.
32:11
We're
32:11
doing
32:11
all
32:11
the
32:11
things
32:12
right.
32:12
But
32:13
on
32:13
the
32:13
inside,
32:13
you're
32:14
like,
32:14
this.
32:14
This
32:14
can't
32:15
be
32:15
it.
32:15
Is
32:15
this
32:15
it?
32:16
Is
32:16
this
32:16
what
32:16
I.
32:16
This
32:17
is
32:17
what
32:17
I
32:17
worked
32:17
so
32:18
hard
32:18
to
32:18
build.
32:18
And
32:19
now
32:19
I'm
32:19
just
32:19
sort
32:20
of
32:20
in
32:20
this
32:20
thing
32:20
where
32:20
it's
32:21
like,
32:22
yeah,
32:22
I
32:22
get
32:23
up,
32:23
I
32:23
do
32:23
my
32:23
job,
32:23
I
32:24
come
32:24
home,
32:24
I
32:25
eat
32:25
dinner,
32:25
I
32:26
pick
32:26
up
32:26
for
32:26
another
32:26
couple
32:27
hours
32:27
because
32:27
I
32:27
don't
32:27
get
32:27
anything
32:28
done
32:28
at
32:28
work.
32:28
And
32:29
this
32:29
is
32:29
start
32:29
all
32:30
over
32:30
again
32:30
tomor
32:31
that
32:31
what
32:31
I
32:31
want
32:31
to
32:31
be.
32:31
Is
32:32
that
32:32
it?
32:32
And
32:33
for
32:33
me,
32:33
after
32:34
a
32:34
while,
32:34
you
32:35
know,
32:36
there's
32:37
parts
32:37
of
32:37
my
32:37
old
32:37
life
32:37
I
32:38
miss.
32:38
I
32:39
genuinely
32:39
enjoyed
32:40
the
32:40
work
32:40
I
32:40
was
32:41
doing.
32:41
I
32:41
enjoyed
32:41
the
32:42
people
32:42
I
32:42
worked
32:42
with.
32:42
But
32:43
I
32:44
love
32:44
what
32:45
I'm
32:45
doing
32:45
now,
32:45
even
32:46
though
32:46
the
32:46
pay
32:46
is.
32:47
And
32:48
the
32:48
stress
32:49
is,
32:49
you
32:50
know,
32:50
insurmountable
32:51
at
32:51
times.
32:51
And
32:52
there
32:52
are
32:52
days
32:52
I
32:52
Just
32:53
want
32:53
to,
32:53
like,
32:54
curl
32:54
up
32:54
under
32:54
the
32:55
covers
32:55
and
32:55
make
32:55
it
32:55
all
32:56
go
32:56
away.
32:57
I
32:57
also,
32:58
like,
32:59
wake
32:59
up
33:00
and
33:00
say,
33:00
like,
33:01
let's
33:01
go.
33:02
This
33:02
is
33:02
great.
33:02
I
33:03
can't
33:03
wait.
33:03
I
33:03
can't
33:03
believe
33:04
I
33:04
get
33:04
to
33:04
do
33:04
this
33:04
again.
33:05
And
33:05
every
33:06
day,
33:06
I
33:06
get
33:06
a
33:06
little
33:07
better.
33:07
I
33:07
get
33:07
a
33:07
little
33:08
sharper.
33:08
In
33:08
spite
33:09
of
33:09
what
33:09
you
33:09
might
33:09
think
33:09
from
33:09
this
33:10
podcast,
33:10
I
33:10
get
33:11
a
33:11
little
33:11
better
33:11
at
33:12
telling
33:12
the
33:12
story
33:12
and
33:13
just
33:13
being
33:14
me
33:14
in
33:14
this
33:15
moment,
33:15
which
33:16
is
33:16
90,
33:17
95%
33:18
of
33:18
it.
33:18
Right.
33:19
I
33:19
mentioned
33:20
to
33:20
you
33:20
on
33:20
our
33:21
first
33:21
call,
33:21
I've
33:22
had
33:22
failures
33:23
over
33:23
the
33:23
years
33:23
with
33:23
businesses,
33:24
and
33:25
the
33:26
one
33:26
thing
33:26
that
33:26
I'd
33:26
say
33:27
is
33:27
that
33:28
I
33:28
wouldn't
33:28
change
33:29
it
33:29
for
33:29
the
33:29
world,
33:30
even
33:30
though
33:30
I've
33:30
had
33:31
all
33:31
of
33:31
that.
33:31
I
33:31
call
33:32
that
33:32
experience,
33:32
not
33:33
failure.
33:33
100%.
33:34
You
33:34
learn
33:34
what
33:35
not
33:35
to
33:35
do.
33:36
Yes.
33:38
And
33:38
ultimately,
33:39
just
33:39
being
33:39
able
33:39
to
33:39
make
33:40
your
33:40
own
33:40
decisions
33:40
and
33:41
do
33:41
your
33:41
own
33:41
thing
33:41
and
33:42
take
33:43
this
33:43
thing,
33:43
whatever
33:44
your
33:44
thing
33:44
is,
33:44
and
33:45
whatever
33:45
direction
33:45
you
33:45
want
33:46
to
33:46
take
33:46
it,
33:46
that
33:47
is
33:47
yours,
33:48
truly
33:48
yours.
33:49
That's
33:49
special.
33:51
Yeah.
33:51
There
33:52
are
33:52
times
33:52
I
33:52
feel
33:52
like
33:52
I'm
33:53
almost
33:53
a
33:53
caretaker
33:54
for
33:54
it,
33:55
which.
33:55
Which
33:55
maybe
33:56
sounds
33:56
grandiose,
33:57
but,
33:57
like,
33:57
the.
33:57
The.
33:58
The
33:58
work
33:58
is
33:59
so
33:59
much
33:59
bigger
33:59
than
33:59
me.
34:00
And
34:01
this
34:01
is
34:02
something
34:02
my.
34:02
My
34:03
therapist,
34:03
many
34:03
years,
34:04
always,
34:04
always
34:05
was,
34:05
like,
34:06
pounding
34:06
into
34:07
my
34:07
head
34:07
and
34:07
into
34:08
my
34:08
heart
34:08
as
34:08
well.
34:08
Like,
34:09
what
34:09
are
34:09
you
34:09
serving?
34:10
What
34:10
are
34:11
you.
34:11
What
34:11
are
34:11
you.
34:11
Like,
34:12
what
34:12
is
34:12
the
34:12
larger
34:13
thing?
34:13
Right.
34:14
And
34:17
I
34:17
just
34:17
love
34:18
that
34:18
way
34:18
of
34:18
sort
34:19
of
34:19
relating
34:19
to
34:19
it,
34:19
of,
34:20
like,
34:20
again,
34:21
I
34:22
have
34:22
to
34:22
do
34:22
this.
34:23
This
34:23
isn't
34:23
even
34:24
about
34:24
me
34:25
anymore.
34:25
Yeah.
34:26
I
34:26
mean,
34:27
I
34:27
try
34:28
very
34:28
hard
34:28
to
34:28
pull
34:28
myself
34:29
out
34:29
of
34:29
this
34:29
company.
34:30
So
34:31
it's
34:31
not
34:31
the
34:31
Scott
34:31
Truitt
34:32
show.
34:32
Right.
34:33
Partially
34:34
because
34:34
of
34:35
my
34:35
co
34:35
founder,
34:36
who
34:37
100%
34:38
right
34:38
there
34:38
with
34:39
me.
34:39
Partially
34:40
because
34:40
this
34:41
has
34:41
to
34:41
be
34:41
bigger
34:41
than
34:41
me.
34:42
I'm
34:42
not
34:42
battling
34:43
Daniel
34:43
Ek.
34:43
I'm
34:44
not
34:44
battling
34:45
anybody.
34:46
I'm
34:46
just
34:46
trying
34:46
to
34:46
build
34:47
a
34:47
thing
34:48
that
34:48
I
34:49
want
34:49
to
34:49
exist
34:49
that
34:50
I
34:50
believe
34:50
needs
34:50
to
34:50
be
34:50
in
34:51
the
34:51
world,
34:52
and
34:52
I'm
34:52
willing
34:53
to
34:53
pay
34:53
the
34:53
price
34:53
to
34:53
do
34:54
it
34:54
is
34:55
kind
34:55
of
34:55
the
34:55
moral
34:55
of
34:56
the
34:56
story.
34:56
Right.
34:57
And
34:57
after
34:57
a
34:57
while,
34:58
well,
34:58
that
34:58
really
34:59
is
34:59
freeing
35:00
and
35:00
allows
35:01
me
35:01
to
35:01
really
35:01
focus
35:01
in
35:02
on
35:02
the.
35:03
How
35:03
can
35:03
I
35:04
be
35:04
of
35:04
service?
35:04
How
35:05
can
35:05
I
35:05
be
35:06
most
35:06
helpful?
35:07
What
35:07
can
35:07
I
35:08
do
35:08
to
35:08
move
35:08
this
35:08
forward
35:10
as
35:10
opposed
35:10
to,
35:11
what
35:11
do
35:11
I
35:11
get
35:11
out
35:12
of
35:12
this?
35:14
When
35:15
does
35:15
my
35:15
name
35:15
go
35:15
up
35:15
in
35:16
the
35:16
lights?
35:16
When
35:16
do
35:16
I
35:16
get
35:16
put
35:17
on
35:17
all
35:17
the
35:17
guest
35:17
lists?
35:17
When
35:18
do
35:18
I
35:18
get
35:18
to
35:18
go
35:18
have
35:18
the
35:19
keynote
35:19
at
35:19
this?
35:20
I
35:20
don't
35:20
care
35:20
about
35:20
any
35:20
of
35:21
that
35:21
stuff.
35:21
Right.
35:22
Yeah.
35:22
I
35:22
do
35:22
a
35:22
podcast
35:23
for
35:23
the
35:23
rest
35:23
of
35:23
my
35:23
life.
35:24
This
35:24
is
35:24
great.
35:26
So
35:27
touching
35:27
on
35:27
that
35:28
point,
35:28
right?
35:29
It's
35:29
same
35:30
with
35:30
me.
35:30
I
35:30
don't
35:30
really
35:31
care
35:31
about
35:31
the
35:31
things
35:32
I
35:32
thought
35:32
I
35:32
cared
35:32
about.
35:34
I
35:34
just
35:35
care
35:35
about
35:35
having
35:35
fun,
35:36
making
35:36
a
35:36
difference
35:36
and
35:37
helping
35:38
people
35:38
move
35:38
forward.
35:39
The
35:39
key
35:39
thing
35:39
is
35:39
you
35:40
touched
35:40
on
35:40
this
35:40
amazing
35:41
thing
35:41
when
35:42
we
35:42
spoke
35:42
first
35:42
time
35:43
about
35:44
your
35:44
pattern
35:44
recognition
35:45
rule
35:46
where
35:46
you
35:47
said,
35:47
once
35:47
is
35:47
a
35:47
data
35:48
point,
35:48
two
35:48
points
35:49
is
35:49
a
35:49
line,
35:50
and
35:50
three
35:51
points
35:51
is
35:51
a
35:51
curve.
35:52
Yeah.
35:53
How
35:53
do
35:53
you
35:53
think
35:54
founders
35:54
with
35:55
an
35:55
idea
35:55
or
35:55
maybe
35:56
further
35:56
forward
35:58
with
35:58
some,
35:59
you
35:59
know,
35:59
an
35:59
MVP
36:00
or
36:00
the
36:00
go
36:00
to
36:01
market
36:01
stage,
36:01
how
36:02
do
36:02
you
36:02
think
36:02
they
36:02
can
36:03
apply
36:03
that
36:03
simple
36:03
logic
36:04
of
36:05
the
36:05
ones
36:06
is
36:06
a
36:06
data
36:06
point,
36:06
two
36:07
is
36:07
a
36:07
line,
36:07
and
36:07
three
36:08
is
36:08
a
36:08
curve
36:09
to
36:09
their
36:10
own
36:10
life
36:10
and
36:11
business?
36:12
It's
36:13
always
36:13
been
36:13
a
36:13
shortcut
36:14
for
36:14
me
36:15
and
36:15
it's
36:16
sort
36:16
of
36:16
something
36:16
I've
36:17
picked
36:17
up
36:17
over
36:17
the
36:18
years
36:18
of
36:18
just
36:18
sort
36:18
of
36:19
being
36:19
ambiently
36:20
aware.
36:21
It's
36:21
not
36:22
like
36:22
I'm
36:22
going
36:22
out
36:22
and
36:23
looking
36:23
for
36:23
data
36:23
points,
36:24
right?
36:25
But
36:26
I
36:26
distinctly
36:26
remember
36:27
being
36:27
in
36:27
a
36:28
conversation
36:28
at
36:29
my
36:29
old
36:30
job,
36:31
at
36:31
a
36:31
massive
36:32
bank,
36:32
in
36:32
a
36:32
windowless
36:33
conference
36:33
room,
36:34
and
36:34
there
36:34
was
36:34
no
36:35
air
36:35
and
36:35
we
36:36
were
36:36
90
36:36
minutes
36:36
in
36:37
and
36:37
this
36:37
guy
36:37
said
36:37
something
36:38
that
36:38
I
36:38
was
36:39
like,
36:39
oh
36:40
my
36:40
God,
36:41
that's
36:41
amazing.
36:42
Right?
36:42
And
36:43
then
36:43
two
36:43
days
36:44
later,
36:44
in
36:44
a
36:44
completely
36:45
different
36:45
kind
36:46
of
36:46
meeting,
36:46
somebody
36:47
said
36:47
something
36:48
very,
36:48
very
36:48
similar,
36:49
but
36:49
just
36:49
a
36:49
little
36:49
different.
36:50
And
36:50
I
36:50
was
36:50
like,
36:51
okay,
36:51
whoa.
36:52
Like,
36:52
hopefully,
36:53
what
36:53
is
36:53
going
36:54
on
36:54
here?
36:54
I've
36:54
got
36:54
two
36:55
really
36:55
clear
36:56
data
36:56
points
36:57
very
36:57
close
36:57
together.
36:58
Highest
36:58
echelon
36:59
of
36:59
these
36:59
businesses.
37:00
Like,
37:00
this
37:00
is.
37:01
This
37:01
is
37:01
interesting.
37:02
And
37:02
then
37:03
I
37:03
think
37:03
it
37:03
was
37:03
maybe
37:04
a
37:04
week
37:04
or
37:04
so
37:04
later
37:04
I
37:05
got
37:05
the
37:05
third
37:05
data
37:05
point.
37:06
By
37:06
that
37:06
point
37:06
I
37:06
was
37:07
like,
37:07
give
37:07
it
37:08
to
37:08
me,
37:08
come
37:08
on.
37:08
I
37:08
know
37:08
it's
37:08
out
37:08
there.
37:09
Where
37:09
is
37:09
it?
37:09
Right?
37:10
And
37:11
it
37:11
just
37:11
was
37:12
this
37:12
sort
37:12
of
37:12
thing
37:12
that,
37:13
like,
37:13
I
37:14
see
37:14
that
37:14
curve,
37:15
I
37:15
see
37:15
that
37:15
pattern
37:16
now.
37:17
I'm
37:17
just
37:17
sort
37:17
of
37:17
looking
37:17
for
37:18
that
37:18
final
37:20
shoot.
37:20
What's
37:20
the
37:21
word?
37:21
I'm
37:21
looking
37:21
for
37:21
confirmation,
37:23
right?
37:23
And
37:24
so
37:24
much
37:24
of
37:25
this
37:25
early
37:26
stage
37:26
stuff
37:26
is
37:26
you're
37:27
projecting
37:27
into
37:28
the
37:28
world
37:28
you
37:28
think
37:29
will
37:29
need
37:29
a
37:30
product
37:30
like
37:31
yours,
37:31
right?
37:32
And
37:33
you
37:33
know,
37:33
I'm
37:33
talking
37:34
to
37:34
record
37:34
labels,
37:35
I'm
37:35
talking
37:35
to
37:35
artists,
37:36
independent
37:36
artists.
37:37
I'm
37:37
talking
37:37
to
37:37
all
37:37
these
37:38
different
37:38
people
37:39
and
37:39
sort
37:39
of
37:39
projecting
37:40
them
37:41
into
37:41
my
37:41
product
37:42
and
37:42
into
37:42
a
37:43
world
37:43
where
37:43
this
37:43
thing
37:43
exists.
37:44
And
37:44
how
37:44
do
37:45
they
37:45
react
37:45
to
37:45
that?
37:45
And
37:46
what
37:46
are
37:46
those
37:46
sort
37:46
of
37:47
little
37:47
flares
37:48
that
37:48
shoot
37:49
out
37:49
in
37:50
remarks
37:51
or
37:51
anecdotes
37:52
or
37:52
just
37:52
these
37:53
little
37:53
data
37:53
points?
37:54
And
37:55
to
37:56
me,
37:56
that's
37:56
the
37:57
most
37:57
interesting
37:58
thing
37:58
is
37:58
like
37:59
just
37:59
seeing
37:59
these
38:00
little
38:00
glimmers
38:01
and
38:01
being
38:01
like,
38:02
okay,
38:02
I
38:02
see
38:02
where
38:03
that
38:03
stacks
38:03
up.
38:03
I
38:04
see
38:04
how
38:04
that
38:04
progresses.
38:05
And
38:06
by
38:06
the
38:07
converse,
38:07
you
38:08
can
38:08
think
38:08
of
38:08
ideas
38:09
that
38:09
are
38:09
just
38:09
sort
38:10
of
38:10
trailing
38:11
off
38:12
and
38:12
there's
38:13
not
38:13
a
38:13
lot
38:13
of
38:13
heat,
38:13
there's
38:14
not
38:14
a
38:14
lot
38:14
of
38:14
rapid
38:14
fire.
38:15
Like,
38:15
oh,
38:15
okay,
38:16
I'm
38:16
seeing
38:16
the
38:16
same
38:17
thing.
38:17
It's
38:17
just
38:17
sort
38:17
of
38:17
like
38:18
one,
38:19
one
38:19
month,
38:19
maybe
38:20
two
38:20
months
38:20
down
38:21
the
38:21
line,
38:21
maybe
38:22
six
38:22
months
38:22
down
38:22
the
38:23
line.
38:23
You
38:23
realize
38:23
that
38:23
there's
38:24
just
38:24
nothing
38:24
there.
38:25
Right.
38:26
When
38:26
there's
38:26
a
38:26
lot
38:26
of
38:27
heat,
38:27
a
38:27
lot
38:27
of
38:29
excitement,
38:30
that's
38:30
when
38:30
I
38:31
tend
38:31
to
38:31
get
38:31
really
38:32
engaged
38:32
and
38:33
like,
38:33
oh,
38:33
okay,
38:33
I
38:34
see
38:34
it,
38:34
I
38:34
see
38:34
it,
38:34
I
38:35
see
38:35
it.
38:35
I
38:36
know
38:36
what
38:36
to
38:36
do
38:36
now.
38:37
Right.
38:37
And
38:37
so
38:38
I
38:38
think
38:38
again,
38:38
it's
38:39
just
38:39
being
38:39
attuned
38:40
to
38:40
the
38:40
world,
38:40
the
38:40
market
38:41
you're
38:41
in,
38:41
the
38:41
people
38:42
you
38:42
talk
38:42
to.
38:42
And
38:43
what
38:43
are
38:43
those?
38:44
Like,
38:44
no
38:44
one
38:44
ever
38:45
says,
38:45
gosh,
38:46
you
38:46
know
38:46
what
38:46
I
38:46
need,
38:47
Scott?
38:47
I
38:47
need
38:48
a
38:48
pay
38:48
for
38:48
play
38:49
social
38:49
and
38:49
streaming
38:50
platform
38:50
that
38:50
allows
38:51
me
38:51
to
38:51
directly
38:51
connect
38:52
with
38:52
my
38:52
favorite
38:52
fans,
38:53
put
38:53
out
38:54
music
38:54
whenever
38:54
I
38:55
want,
38:55
get
38:55
payment
38:56
right
38:56
away.
38:56
Like,
38:57
no
38:57
one
38:57
ever
38:57
is
38:57
going
38:58
to
38:58
come
38:58
in
38:58
and
38:58
say,
38:58
here's
38:59
the
38:59
business,
39:00
just
39:00
build
39:00
it
39:00
for
39:00
me.
39:01
Right.
39:01
There's
39:02
never
39:02
any
39:03
sort
39:03
of
39:04
feedback
39:04
like
39:04
that.
39:05
Like
39:05
in
39:05
all
39:05
my
39:05
years
39:06
of
39:06
doing
39:06
it,
39:06
it's
39:06
never
39:07
been
39:07
this,
39:07
like,
39:08
here's
39:08
the
39:09
recipe,
39:09
bake
39:09
me
39:09
a
39:10
cake.
39:10
It's
39:11
always
39:11
been
39:11
like,
39:12
yeah,
39:12
we
39:12
really
39:12
struggle
39:13
here.
39:13
This
39:13
is
39:14
a
39:14
constant
39:14
source
39:14
of
39:15
frustration.
39:15
We
39:16
get
39:16
stymied
39:16
on
39:17
this
39:17
every
39:17
time.
39:17
Like,
39:18
we
39:18
would
39:18
love
39:18
to
39:19
be
39:19
able
39:19
to.
39:19
You
39:20
know,
39:20
it's
39:20
these
39:20
sort
39:21
of
39:21
anecdotes
39:22
that
39:22
seem
39:22
innocuous
39:23
and
39:23
seem
39:23
sort
39:24
of
39:24
like
39:24
throwaway
39:25
almost.
39:26
It's
39:26
like,
39:27
that's
39:27
the
39:27
grist
39:28
for
39:28
the
39:28
mill.
39:29
That's
39:29
the
39:29
thing
39:30
I've
39:30
been
39:30
looking
39:30
for.
39:31
Oh
39:31
my
39:31
God.
39:32
If
39:32
I
39:32
could
39:32
solve
39:32
that
39:32
problem
39:32
for
39:33
you,
39:33
that's
39:33
something,
39:33
huh?
39:34
Yeah,
39:34
yeah,
39:35
yeah.
39:35
Wait,
39:36
how
39:36
would
39:36
you
39:36
solve
39:36
that
39:37
problem?
39:37
Right.
39:38
And
39:38
now
39:38
we're
39:38
in
39:38
this
39:39
sort
39:39
of
39:39
co
39:39
creation
39:40
space,
39:40
which
39:41
is
39:41
just,
39:41
you
39:41
know,
39:42
amazing
39:42
for
39:42
any
39:43
product
39:43
thinker
39:44
like
39:44
me.
39:44
So
39:45
again,
39:46
deep
39:46
listening,
39:47
being
39:47
aware,
39:47
kind
39:48
of
39:48
knowing
39:48
your
39:48
narrative,
39:49
but
39:49
also
39:49
looking
39:49
for
39:50
these
39:50
points
39:50
of
39:50
connection
39:51
and
39:51
draw
39:52
that
39:52
curve.
39:53
And
39:53
when
39:53
it's
39:53
pointing
39:54
up,
39:54
like,
39:54
go
39:54
for
39:54
it.
39:55
You
39:55
talk
39:55
about
39:56
effectively
39:57
having
39:57
the
39:58
platform
39:58
be
39:59
focused
39:59
on
40:00
the
40:00
artists.
40:01
Instant
40:01
payments
40:02
directs
40:03
to
40:03
their
40:03
fans.
40:04
Yep.
40:05
I
40:05
take
40:05
it
40:06
the
40:06
pattern
40:07
that
40:07
you
40:07
learned
40:09
or
40:09
had
40:10
heard
40:10
was
40:11
that
40:11
artists
40:11
were
40:12
being
40:12
underpaid,
40:13
fans
40:14
were
40:14
not
40:14
feeling
40:15
as
40:15
connected
40:16
or
40:16
they
40:17
weren't
40:17
clear
40:17
as
40:18
to
40:18
how
40:19
their
40:20
subscription
40:21
or
40:21
whatever,
40:22
how
40:23
much
40:23
that
40:23
was
40:24
benefiting
40:25
the
40:25
artist
40:26
that
40:26
they
40:26
loved
40:26
listening
40:27
to.
40:28
Yep.
40:28
So
40:28
what
40:28
you're
40:29
really
40:29
talking
40:29
about
40:29
is
40:29
the
40:30
idea
40:30
of
40:30
almost
40:30
having
40:31
a.
40:32
This
40:32
shows
40:33
My
40:33
age
40:33
radio
40:34
station
40:35
with
40:35
just
40:36
your
40:36
favorite
40:36
artists
40:37
and
40:37
making
40:38
sure
40:38
that
40:38
they,
40:39
they
40:39
get
40:39
the
40:39
reward
40:40
for
40:40
giving
40:40
you
40:41
the
40:41
joy,
40:41
the
40:41
feeling,
40:42
the
40:42
love
40:42
that
40:42
you
40:42
get
40:43
from
40:43
their
40:43
music.
40:43
Yep.
40:44
Yeah.
40:44
And
40:45
then
40:45
a
40:46
community
40:46
of
40:46
people
40:46
that
40:47
are
40:47
also
40:47
doing
40:47
that
40:48
and
40:48
finding
40:48
those
40:49
overlaps
40:49
and
40:49
those
40:50
connections
40:50
and
40:50
finding
40:51
these
40:51
ways
40:51
to
40:52
sort
40:52
of
40:52
bring
40:52
people
40:52
together.
40:53
Like
40:54
I'm
40:54
sure
40:54
you
40:54
and
40:55
I
40:55
have
40:56
tons
40:56
of
40:56
songs
40:57
that
40:57
we
40:57
both
40:57
love,
40:57
Mikey,
40:58
but
40:59
I
40:59
have
40:59
no
40:59
way
41:00
of
41:00
knowing
41:00
what
41:00
they
41:01
are.
41:01
If,
41:02
if
41:02
I
41:02
want
41:02
to
41:02
make
41:02
a
41:03
playlist
41:03
with,
41:03
with
41:04
my
41:04
wife,
41:04
a
41:04
collaborative
41:05
playlist
41:05
of
41:05
the
41:06
songs
41:06
we
41:06
both
41:06
love,
41:07
I
41:07
have
41:07
to
41:07
send
41:07
her
41:07
a
41:08
spreadsheet
41:08
every
41:08
week
41:08
of
41:09
here's
41:09
the
41:09
songs
41:09
I
41:09
love
41:10
now,
41:10
these
41:11
are
41:11
the
41:11
new
41:11
ones.
41:11
Will
41:11
you
41:12
please
41:12
listen
41:12
to
41:12
me
41:12
and
41:13
tick
41:13
off
41:13
if
41:13
you
41:13
like
41:13
them?
41:14
Right.
41:14
That's
41:15
the
41:15
dumbest
41:15
thing
41:15
in
41:15
the
41:15
world.
41:16
Like
41:16
this
41:16
stuff
41:16
is
41:17
just
41:17
hiding
41:17
in
41:17
plain
41:18
sight.
41:18
But
41:19
it
41:19
wasn't
41:19
like
41:20
the
41:20
systems
41:20
we
41:21
have
41:21
today.
41:21
The
41:21
services
41:22
we
41:22
have
41:22
today
41:22
weren't
41:23
built
41:23
to
41:23
bring
41:23
people
41:24
together.
41:24
They
41:25
were
41:25
built
41:25
to
41:25
extract
41:26
value
41:26
for
41:26
a
41:27
handful
41:27
of
41:27
people.
41:28
And
41:28
it's
41:28
all
41:28
fine
41:29
and
41:29
good.
41:29
That's
41:29
the
41:30
way
41:30
we
41:30
did
41:30
it
41:30
for
41:30
so
41:31
long.
41:31
But
41:31
I
41:31
think
41:31
that
41:32
the
41:32
real
41:32
opportunity
41:33
is
41:33
to
41:33
flip
41:33
it
41:33
in
41:33
the
41:34
other
41:34
direction.
41:35
Everything's
41:35
going
41:36
AI,
41:36
everything's
41:37
AI
41:37
slop,
41:38
everything
41:38
is
41:39
just
41:39
sort
41:39
of
41:39
like
41:40
anti
41:40
human.
41:41
What's
41:41
the
41:42
opposite
41:42
of
41:42
that?
41:43
Because
41:43
that's
41:43
the
41:43
world
41:43
I
41:44
want
41:44
to
41:44
be
41:44
in
41:44
and
41:45
that's
41:45
the
41:45
world
41:45
I
41:45
want
41:45
to
41:46
spend
41:46
my
41:46
money,
41:47
my
41:47
time,
41:47
my
41:48
energy
41:48
in.
41:49
That's
41:49
the
41:50
thing
41:50
I
41:50
want
41:50
to
41:50
dedicate
41:51
my
41:51
life
41:51
to
41:53
the
41:53
idea
41:53
that
41:54
like
41:55
my
41:56
kids
41:56
don't
41:56
spend
41:57
any
41:57
money
41:57
on
41:58
music.
41:59
I
41:59
was
41:59
a
41:59
broke
42:00
25
42:00
year
42:00
old
42:00
and
42:00
I
42:01
spent
42:01
more
42:01
on
42:01
music
42:01
than
42:02
I
42:02
do
42:02
today
42:02
as
42:02
a
42:03
father
42:03
of
42:04
two
42:04
teenagers
42:04
in
42:04
a
42:05
family
42:05
of
42:05
four.
42:06
And
42:06
you
42:06
know,
42:06
if
42:07
I
42:07
had
42:07
$5
42:08
as
42:08
a
42:09
12
42:09
year
42:09
old
42:10
that
42:10
was
42:10
gone
42:11
in
42:11
a
42:11
half
42:11
hour,
42:12
that
42:12
was
42:12
the
42:12
time
42:12
it
42:13
took
42:13
me
42:13
to
42:13
go
42:13
to
42:13
the
42:13
record
42:13
store
42:14
and
42:14
back.
42:14
Right.
42:15
And
42:15
occasionally
42:15
it
42:15
was
42:16
the
42:16
arcade
42:16
or
42:16
occasionally
42:17
it
42:17
was,
42:17
you
42:17
know,
42:18
some
42:18
food
42:18
or
42:18
whatever,
42:19
some
42:19
goofing
42:19
around
42:20
with
42:20
my
42:20
friends.
42:20
But
42:20
like
42:21
that
42:22
was
42:22
so
42:22
important
42:23
for
42:23
me
42:23
to
42:23
be
42:24
able
42:24
to
42:24
say
42:24
I
42:24
value
42:25
this
42:25
thing
42:25
and
42:26
I
42:26
want
42:26
to
42:26
have
42:26
this
42:27
thing
42:27
in
42:27
my
42:27
life.
42:28
And
42:29
I
42:29
think
42:29
when,
42:30
when
42:30
we
42:30
start
42:30
thinking
42:31
about
42:32
the
42:32
money
42:32
we
42:33
spend
42:33
and
42:33
the
42:33
things
42:34
we
42:34
spend
42:34
our
42:35
money
42:35
on,
42:36
that
42:36
changes
42:37
our
42:38
relationship
42:38
to
42:39
them.
42:39
And
42:39
for
42:39
so
42:39
long
42:40
we've
42:40
been
42:40
sort
42:40
of
42:40
obfuscated
42:41
away
42:41
from
42:41
that.
42:42
We've
42:42
been
42:42
detached
42:43
from
42:44
the
42:44
consequences
42:45
of
42:45
our,
42:45
of
42:45
our
42:46
spending.
42:47
And
42:47
you
42:47
know,
42:48
somebody
42:49
commented
42:49
on
42:49
one
42:50
of
42:50
my
42:50
posts
42:50
today
42:50
and
42:51
it's
42:51
like
42:51
you
42:51
know,
42:52
she
42:52
wasn't
42:52
saying
42:52
she
42:52
felt
42:53
powerless,
42:53
but
42:53
it's
42:54
like
42:54
I
42:54
can
42:54
see
42:55
all
42:55
this
42:55
stuff,
42:55
but
42:55
I
42:56
can't.
42:56
What
42:56
do
42:56
I
42:56
do
42:56
about
42:57
it?
42:57
Right?
42:58
Like,
42:59
I
42:59
don't
42:59
want
42:59
to
43:00
hear
43:00
ICE
43:00
ads
43:00
on
43:01
Spotify.
43:02
I
43:02
just
43:02
want
43:02
to
43:02
listen
43:03
to
43:03
music.
43:03
I
43:03
don't
43:03
want
43:04
to
43:04
be
43:04
reminded
43:04
of
43:04
all
43:04
this
43:05
terrible
43:05
stuff.
43:06
And
43:06
sorry,
43:07
that's
43:07
a
43:07
very
43:07
American
43:07
thing
43:08
to
43:08
say.
43:10
So
43:10
ICE
43:10
is
43:10
Immigration
43:11
and
43:11
Customs
43:12
Enforcement
43:12
and
43:13
they're
43:13
doing
43:13
some
43:14
pretty
43:15
inhumane
43:16
things
43:17
in
43:17
my
43:18
opinion
43:18
and
43:19
mine
43:19
as
43:19
well.
43:19
And
43:20
the
43:20
fact
43:20
that
43:20
this
43:20
thing,
43:21
this
43:22
music
43:22
that
43:22
gives
43:22
us
43:23
life
43:23
and
43:23
that
43:23
this
43:24
expression
43:24
of
43:24
love
43:25
and,
43:25
and
43:26
community,
43:26
connection,
43:27
all
43:27
these
43:27
wonderful
43:28
things
43:28
and
43:28
then
43:29
this
43:29
jarring
43:30
just
43:31
like
43:31
what
43:32
in
43:32
the
43:32
world
43:32
is
43:32
this
43:33
doing
43:33
here?
43:33
I'm
43:33
not
43:34
the
43:34
target
43:34
market
43:34
for
43:35
that.
43:36
And
43:36
that's
43:36
the
43:36
world
43:37
we
43:37
just
43:37
sort
43:37
of
43:37
live
43:38
in
43:38
now
43:38
where
43:38
like
43:39
even
43:39
when
43:39
I
43:39
want
43:39
to
43:39
watch
43:40
football,
43:40
highlights
43:41
of,
43:41
of,
43:41
you
43:42
know,
43:42
my,
43:42
my
43:42
club
43:42
and
43:43
it's
43:43
like
43:44
I
43:44
sit
43:44
through
43:45
90
43:45
seconds
43:45
of
43:45
unskippable
43:46
ass
43:46
to
43:47
watch
43:47
three
43:47
minutes
43:48
of
43:48
football.
43:49
Like
43:49
surely
43:50
there's
43:50
a
43:50
way
43:50
for
43:50
me
43:50
to
43:50
just
43:51
pay
43:51
for
43:51
the
43:51
highlights.
43:51
Like
43:52
just
43:52
let
43:52
me
43:53
watch
43:53
the
43:53
thing
43:53
I
43:53
want
43:54
to
43:54
watch.
43:54
Right.
43:54
Better
43:55
yet,
43:55
bring
43:55
it
43:56
to
43:56
me.
43:56
Like
43:57
it
43:57
just
43:57
hook
43:58
me
43:58
up
43:58
on
43:58
a
43:58
drip
43:58
feed.
43:59
I
43:59
live
43:59
for
43:59
this
44:00
stuff,
44:00
right?
44:00
And
44:01
so
44:01
I
44:01
think
44:01
like
44:02
when
44:02
you
44:02
start
44:02
to
44:02
shift
44:03
your
44:03
perspective
44:03
on
44:03
these
44:04
things,
44:04
then
44:04
then
44:05
like
44:05
new
44:06
worlds
44:06
become
44:06
possible
44:07
and
44:07
new
44:08
experiences
44:08
become
44:09
very
44:09
palatable.
44:10
And
44:10
that's
44:10
what
44:10
we're
44:10
betting
44:11
on,
44:11
like
44:11
that
44:12
there's
44:12
enough
44:12
of
44:12
us
44:12
out
44:13
there
44:13
and
44:13
that
44:13
once
44:14
you
44:14
get
44:14
a
44:14
taste
44:14
of
44:14
that,
44:15
like,
44:15
I
44:16
don't
44:16
have
44:16
to
44:16
deal
44:16
with
44:16
this
44:16
crap
44:17
anymore.
44:18
I
44:18
don't
44:18
have
44:18
to
44:18
sign
44:19
my
44:19
Life
44:19
away
44:20
to
44:20
837
44:21
data
44:21
partners
44:22
to
44:22
track
44:22
me
44:22
everywhere
44:23
I
44:23
go
44:23
just
44:23
because
44:24
I
44:24
want
44:24
to
44:24
play
44:24
a
44:24
song.
44:25
Right?
44:25
I
44:26
just
44:26
want
44:26
to
44:26
listen
44:27
to
44:27
music
44:28
and
44:28
I
44:28
want
44:28
to
44:28
know
44:29
that
44:29
when
44:29
I
44:29
listen
44:29
to
44:29
that
44:30
music
44:30
that
44:30
the
44:30
people
44:31
who
44:31
made
44:31
it
44:31
get
44:32
paid.
44:33
Simple
44:34
equation.
44:35
And
44:35
that's
44:35
the
44:36
goal.
44:36
Right.
44:36
I
44:36
know
44:37
one
44:37
of
44:37
the
44:37
things
44:37
you
44:38
mentioned
44:39
in
44:39
our
44:39
previous
44:39
conversation
44:40
was
44:41
what's
44:42
the
44:42
hardest
44:44
thing
44:44
to
44:44
get
44:44
over
44:44
with
44:45
the
44:45
music
44:45
industry?
44:46
And
44:46
oddly
44:47
enough,
44:47
it's
44:47
that
44:48
one
44:48
that
44:48
like
44:49
you
44:49
should
44:49
get
44:49
paid.
44:50
When
44:50
somebody
44:50
plays
44:51
your
44:51
song,
44:51
whether
44:52
they
44:52
liked
44:52
it
44:53
or
44:53
not,
44:53
you
44:54
should
44:54
get
44:54
paid.
44:54
You
44:55
made
44:55
a
44:55
thing.
44:56
And
44:56
that's
44:57
what,
44:57
that's
44:57
the
44:57
way
44:57
the
44:58
radio
44:58
worked.
44:59
Yeah.
45:00
Not
45:00
a
45:00
lot
45:00
of
45:01
money,
45:01
but
45:01
there
45:01
was
45:02
some
45:02
money.
45:02
Yeah.
45:02
Yeah.
45:03
But
45:03
there
45:03
was
45:04
also
45:04
a
45:04
built
45:04
in
45:04
gatekeeper
45:05
and
45:05
that
45:06
game
45:06
got
45:07
played
45:07
by
45:07
a
45:07
certain
45:07
number
45:08
of
45:08
people
45:08
that
45:08
could
45:09
afford
45:09
to.
45:09
And
45:10
that's
45:10
basically
45:11
what
45:11
Spotify
45:11
has
45:12
become
45:12
Now.
45:12
And
45:13
all
45:13
I'm
45:14
simply
45:14
saying
45:14
is,
45:14
like,
45:15
let's
45:15
just
45:16
break
45:16
it
45:16
apart
45:17
and
45:17
have
45:17
the
45:17
music
45:17
lover
45:18
and
45:18
the
45:18
music
45:18
maker
45:19
together
45:19
again.
45:20
And
45:21
if
45:21
we
45:21
can
45:21
do
45:21
that,
45:21
then
45:22
you
45:22
don't
45:23
have
45:23
to
45:23
go
45:23
against
45:24
Taylor
45:24
Swift
45:25
to
45:25
get
45:25
paid.
45:25
You
45:25
just
45:25
make
45:26
the
45:26
music
45:26
that
45:26
I
45:27
want
45:27
to
45:27
hear,
45:27
and
45:28
I'll
45:28
be
45:28
there,
45:29
take
45:29
my
45:29
money
45:30
every
45:30
time.
45:30
And.
45:31
And
45:32
I
45:32
think
45:32
a
45:32
lot
45:32
of
45:32
people
45:33
don't.
45:33
So,
45:33
like,
45:33
you're.
45:34
You're
45:34
spot
45:35
on.
45:35
The
45:35
model
45:37
is
45:37
like,
45:37
missed,
45:38
Miss.
45:39
What's
45:39
the
45:39
word
45:39
I'm
45:39
looking
45:39
for?
45:40
It's
45:40
very.
45:42
It's
45:42
very.
45:45
There's
45:46
a
45:46
lot.
45:46
It's
45:46
very
45:47
confusing
45:47
because
45:48
as
45:48
a
45:48
consumer,
45:49
we
45:49
pay
45:50
whatever
45:50
it
45:50
is,
45:51
9.99
45:52
for
45:52
Spotify,
45:54
and
45:55
we
45:56
basically.
45:56
The
45:56
money
45:56
goes
45:57
into
45:57
the
45:57
pot.
45:57
We
45:57
have
45:58
no
45:58
clue
45:58
what
45:58
happens
45:58
afterwards.
45:59
The
45:59
same
45:59
is
45:59
true
45:59
of
46:00
Netflix.
46:00
The
46:00
same
46:00
is
46:00
true
46:01
of
46:01
Amazon
46:01
Prime.
46:02
The
46:02
same
46:02
is
46:02
true.
46:02
True
46:02
of
46:03
any
46:04
other
46:04
subscription
46:05
service
46:05
is
46:06
convenient.
46:07
But
46:08
if
46:08
you
46:09
want
46:09
more
46:09
of
46:09
the
46:10
thing
46:10
that
46:11
brings
46:11
you
46:11
joy.
46:12
Yeah.
46:14
And
46:14
for
46:14
the
46:15
people
46:15
who
46:15
created
46:16
that
46:16
for
46:16
your
46:17
benefit,
46:18
to
46:18
benefit
46:19
from
46:19
that,
46:20
then,
46:20
yes,
46:21
this
46:21
is
46:21
what
46:21
you've
46:21
done.
46:22
I
46:22
love
46:22
that
46:22
you.
46:23
You're
46:23
spot
46:24
on.
46:24
Like,
46:24
it
46:24
is
46:25
a
46:25
huge
46:25
problem.
46:26
It's
46:26
a
46:26
huge
46:26
problem
46:27
that
46:27
nobody
46:27
fully
46:27
understands
46:28
because
46:28
it
46:28
is.
46:29
It
46:29
is
46:29
purposely
46:30
confusing.
46:31
Oh,
46:32
yeah.
46:32
You
46:32
know,
46:32
you
46:33
just
46:33
put
46:33
it
46:33
into
46:33
a
46:34
pot,
46:34
and
46:34
who
46:34
knows
46:35
who
46:35
gets
46:35
what?
46:36
We
46:36
all
46:36
get
46:36
a
46:36
little
46:36
something.
46:37
It's
46:37
great.
46:38
Yeah.
46:38
Yeah.
46:39
Okay.
46:39
But,
46:39
but,
46:40
but
46:40
nobody
46:40
really
46:41
knows
46:41
anything.
46:42
And.
46:43
And
46:43
yeah,
46:44
it
46:44
turns
46:44
out
46:44
most
46:45
people
46:45
don't
46:45
make
46:45
any
46:46
money
46:46
at
46:46
all.
46:46
They
46:47
spend
46:47
more
46:47
than
46:47
they
46:47
make.
46:48
Given
46:48
that
46:48
it's
46:49
such
46:49
a
46:49
hard
46:49
industry
46:50
to
46:50
crack,
46:52
and
46:52
you
46:52
are
46:52
a
46:53
brave
46:53
soul,
46:54
and
46:54
I
46:54
really,
46:55
really,
46:55
really
46:55
admire
46:56
what
46:56
you're
46:56
doing,
46:57
and
46:57
I
46:57
think
46:57
it's
46:58
fabulous.
46:58
It's
46:59
going
47:00
back
47:00
to
47:00
the
47:00
days
47:00
when
47:00
we
47:01
used
47:01
to
47:01
go
47:01
to
47:01
the
47:01
record
47:02
shop.
47:02
The
47:02
local
47:02
record
47:03
shop.
47:03
I
47:03
loved
47:04
it.
47:04
Yeah.
47:04
What
47:04
do
47:04
you
47:05
think?
47:05
Like,
47:05
the.
47:05
The
47:07
hardest
47:07
thing
47:07
to
47:08
tackle
47:08
for
47:09
you
47:09
when
47:09
you're
47:10
thinking
47:10
about
47:10
how
47:10
to
47:11
build
47:11
this
47:11
monetization
47:12
model
47:12
that
47:13
suits
47:13
the.
47:14
The
47:14
lover,
47:14
listener,
47:15
and
47:15
the
47:16
musician.
47:17
Yeah.
47:17
Yeah.
47:18
This
47:19
was
47:19
a
47:19
lesson
47:19
I
47:20
learned
47:21
probably
47:21
halfway
47:22
through.
47:22
So
47:23
eight,
47:23
nine
47:23
months
47:23
ago.
47:24
I
47:24
was
47:25
trying
47:25
to
47:25
get
47:25
people
47:26
to.
47:26
Yes.
47:28
I
47:28
was
47:28
trying
47:28
to
47:29
convince
47:29
people,
47:29
like,
47:29
oh,
47:30
you
47:30
see,
47:30
like,
47:30
how
47:31
good
47:31
this
47:31
could
47:31
be.
47:31
Right.
47:32
And
47:32
I
47:32
was.
47:32
I
47:32
was
47:32
doing
47:33
my
47:33
little
47:33
sales
47:34
pitch
47:34
and
47:35
trying
47:35
to
47:35
walk
47:35
people
47:35
through
47:36
things,
47:36
and
47:36
I
47:36
realized.
47:38
I
47:38
think
47:38
I
47:38
read
47:38
this
47:39
in
47:39
a
47:39
post
47:39
somewhere
47:39
on
47:40
LinkedIn
47:40
and
47:40
it
47:41
was
47:41
like,
47:41
you
47:42
want
47:42
to
47:42
get
47:42
people
47:42
to
47:43
know
47:44
as
47:44
fast
47:44
as
47:44
you
47:45
possibly
47:45
can?
47:45
Hey,
47:46
would
47:46
you
47:46
go
47:46
for
47:46
something
47:47
like
47:47
this?
47:47
No.
47:48
Thank
47:48
you
47:48
for
47:49
your
47:49
time.
47:49
I'll
47:49
talk
47:49
to
47:49
you
47:50
in
47:50
six
47:50
months
47:51
and
47:51
just
47:52
like
47:52
keep
47:53
going
47:53
until
47:53
you
47:54
find
47:54
the
47:54
person
47:54
that's
47:55
like,
47:55
oh
47:56
my
47:56
God,
47:56
that
47:57
sounds
47:57
amazing.
47:58
Like,
47:58
well,
47:58
how
47:58
would
47:58
we,
47:59
what
47:59
would
47:59
we,
48:00
you
48:00
know?
48:00
And
48:00
when
48:01
people
48:01
start
48:01
to
48:01
lean
48:02
forward
48:02
and
48:02
get
48:02
into
48:02
the
48:03
conversation,
48:03
it's
48:04
like,
48:04
okay,
48:04
I'm
48:05
going
48:05
to
48:05
focus
48:05
on
48:05
you
48:06
now.
48:06
Let's
48:06
go,
48:06
let's
48:07
go
48:07
figure
48:07
this
48:07
thing
48:07
out.
48:08
Right?
48:08
And
48:09
then
48:09
it's
48:09
about
48:09
getting
48:09
that
48:10
repeatable
48:11
pattern
48:11
that
48:11
you
48:11
can
48:12
go
48:12
to
48:12
people
48:12
and
48:12
say,
48:13
okay,
48:13
here's
48:13
what
48:13
I'm
48:14
working
48:14
on
48:14
over
48:14
here.
48:15
Here's
48:15
how
48:15
I
48:15
think
48:15
this
48:15
works
48:16
for
48:16
you.
48:16
Is
48:16
this
48:16
something
48:17
I.
48:17
That
48:17
would
48:17
be
48:17
interesting.
48:18
Should
48:18
we
48:18
continue?
48:19
And
48:19
it's
48:19
a
48:20
totally
48:20
different
48:20
conversation.
48:21
I
48:21
don't
48:21
know
48:21
what
48:22
prompted
48:22
that,
48:22
but
48:22
yeah,
48:23
spot
48:23
on,
48:23
guy.
48:27
My
48:27
zoom
48:28
etiquette
48:28
is
48:29
lacking.
48:29
I
48:29
don't
48:29
do
48:29
this
48:30
as
48:30
often
48:31
as
48:31
I
48:31
should
48:32
where
48:32
I'm
48:34
demonstrative
48:34
with
48:34
my
48:35
hands.
48:35
But
48:35
at
48:36
any
48:36
rate,
48:36
it's
48:37
just
48:37
getting
48:37
to
48:38
know
48:39
so
48:39
you
48:39
can
48:39
find
48:39
the
48:40
people
48:40
that
48:40
will
48:40
say
48:40
yes.
48:42
And
48:42
for
48:42
us,
48:43
we
48:44
aren't
48:44
going
48:44
to
48:44
have
48:45
Spotify's
48:45
catalog
48:46
at
48:46
launch.
48:47
Totally
48:47
fine.
48:48
But
48:48
we'll
48:48
find
48:49
those
48:49
500
48:49
artists
48:50
that
48:50
are
48:50
dead
48:51
set
48:51
on
48:51
doing
48:52
this
48:52
thing
48:52
a
48:52
different
48:53
way
48:53
and
48:53
we'll
48:54
go
48:54
prove
48:54
it
48:54
with
48:54
them
48:55
and
48:55
we'll
48:55
bring
48:55
in
48:56
a
48:56
thousand
48:56
of
48:56
their
48:56
fans
48:57
and
48:57
we'll
48:57
go
48:57
and
48:58
we'll
48:58
iterate
48:58
until
48:59
we
48:59
get
48:59
to
49:00
a
49:00
thousand
49:00
artists
49:01
and
49:01
2000
49:02
fans.
49:02
Right?
49:03
We'll
49:03
just
49:03
keep
49:03
going.
49:04
And
49:05
it's
49:05
that
49:05
sort
49:06
of
49:06
thing
49:06
that
49:06
we're
49:07
trying
49:07
to
49:07
hit
49:07
critical
49:08
mass
49:08
on
49:09
the
49:09
catalog
49:10
side
49:10
where
49:10
we're
49:11
trying
49:11
to
49:11
hit
49:11
a
49:12
compelling
49:12
product,
49:13
we're
49:13
trying
49:13
to
49:13
figure
49:14
out
49:15
the
49:15
message
49:15
that's
49:16
going
49:16
to
49:16
take
49:16
this
49:16
thing
49:17
out
49:17
and
49:17
really
49:17
resonate
49:18
with
49:18
our
49:18
core
49:19
group,
49:19
our
49:19
core
49:19
audience,
49:21
and
49:21
moving
49:21
all
49:22
three
49:22
of
49:22
those
49:22
things
49:22
forward
49:23
to
49:23
the
49:23
point
49:23
where
49:24
we
49:24
can
49:24
say,
49:24
you
49:24
know
49:24
what,
49:25
this
49:26
feels
49:26
good,
49:27
let's
49:27
launch,
49:28
let's
49:28
go.
49:30
And
49:30
bear
49:30
in
49:30
mind
49:31
within
49:31
that
49:31
is
49:32
a
49:32
whole
49:32
lot
49:32
of
49:32
legal
49:33
negotiations
49:34
and
49:34
a
49:34
whole
49:35
lot
49:35
of
49:35
pain
49:35
in
49:35
just
49:36
getting
49:36
the
49:36
legal
49:36
rights
49:37
to
49:37
be
49:37
able
49:37
to
49:37
stream
49:37
music.
49:39
So
49:39
that
49:39
basically
49:40
is
49:40
a
49:40
nutshell.
49:41
My
49:41
last
49:41
18,
49:42
24
49:42
months
49:42
of
49:42
trying
49:43
to
49:43
crack
49:43
that
49:43
nut
49:44
and
49:44
trying
49:44
to
49:45
find
49:45
a
49:45
way
49:45
to,
49:46
to
49:46
move
49:46
people
49:47
forward
49:47
with
49:47
this
49:48
bigger
49:48
vision
49:49
and
49:50
way
49:51
harder
49:51
than
49:51
I
49:51
ever
49:52
would
49:52
have
49:52
imagined.
49:53
Just
49:54
way,
49:55
way,
49:55
way
49:55
harder.
49:56
And
49:57
somehow
49:58
the
49:58
industry,
49:59
the
49:59
music
49:59
industry
50:00
is
50:00
more
50:01
risk
50:01
averse
50:01
and
50:01
conservative
50:02
than
50:02
any
50:03
bank
50:03
or
50:03
insurance
50:03
company
50:04
I
50:04
worked
50:04
at
50:04
my
50:04
former
50:05
life.
50:05
And
50:06
technically
50:06
backwards,
50:07
like
50:07
they,
50:08
they're
50:08
still,
50:09
you
50:10
know,
50:10
sftping
50:12
XML
50:12
files.
50:13
It's
50:14
like,
50:14
oh
50:14
my
50:14
God,
50:15
are
50:15
you
50:15
sure?
50:15
Are
50:16
you
50:16
serious?
50:16
You
50:16
know,
50:17
there
50:17
are
50:17
glimmers
50:18
of
50:18
hope,
50:18
there's
50:18
a
50:19
lot
50:19
of
50:19
people
50:19
trying
50:19
to
50:19
change
50:20
that.
50:20
There's
50:20
a
50:21
well
50:22
understood
50:22
movement
50:23
around
50:23
metadata
50:24
and
50:24
the
50:24
importance
50:25
of
50:25
attribution
50:26
and
50:26
understanding
50:26
who
50:27
gets
50:27
paid
50:27
and
50:27
how
50:28
this
50:28
all
50:28
fits
50:28
together.
50:29
But
50:29
it's
50:29
an
50:29
archaic
50:30
system
50:30
in
50:31
which
50:31
a
50:31
handful
50:31
of
50:31
people
50:32
got
50:32
really
50:32
wealthy
50:33
gaming
50:33
it.
50:34
And
50:34
so
50:34
to
50:35
come
50:35
in
50:35
and
50:35
saying
50:35
like,
50:36
I'm
50:36
going
50:36
to
50:36
shake
50:36
this
50:36
all
50:37
up
50:37
and
50:37
I'm
50:37
going
50:37
to
50:37
rearrange
50:38
it
50:38
until
50:38
it's
50:38
just
50:39
the
50:39
people
50:39
that
50:39
count
50:40
is
50:41
an
50:41
act
50:41
of
50:41
war
50:41
for
50:42
a
50:42
lot
50:42
of
50:42
people.
50:43
So
50:44
I'm
50:44
sure
50:44
I'm
50:45
stepping
50:45
on
50:45
toes
50:46
and
50:46
I'm
50:46
sure
50:46
I'm
50:46
causing
50:47
trouble,
50:47
but
50:47
I
50:47
try
50:47
to
50:48
stay
50:48
pure
50:48
and
50:48
focused
50:49
on
50:49
why
50:50
and
50:51
what
50:51
we're
50:51
trying
50:52
to
50:52
do
50:52
and
50:52
for
50:52
whom.
50:53
I
50:53
believe
50:53
that
50:53
will
50:53
carry
50:54
me
50:54
through.
50:54
But
50:54
I'll
50:55
come
50:55
back
50:55
in
50:55
what,
50:56
612
50:56
months,
50:57
we'll
50:57
figure
50:57
out
50:57
where
50:57
I
50:58
landed.
50:58
I
50:58
think
50:59
what
50:59
you're
50:59
doing
50:59
right
51:00
is
51:00
amazing,
51:01
is
51:01
necessary,
51:02
especially
51:03
in
51:03
an
51:03
age
51:03
where
51:04
over
51:05
the
51:05
last
51:05
five
51:05
years
51:05
we've
51:06
talked
51:06
about
51:06
NFTs,
51:07
cryptocurrencies,
51:08
digital
51:08
assets,
51:09
we've
51:10
talked
51:10
about
51:11
Spotify.
51:12
Like
51:12
there's
51:12
all
51:13
these
51:13
things
51:14
that
51:14
are
51:14
very
51:14
intangible
51:15
and
51:16
in
51:16
the
51:16
end
51:17
go
51:17
to
51:17
very
51:17
few
51:18
people.
51:18
And
51:19
your
51:19
industry,
51:19
the
51:20
industry
51:20
you're
51:20
trying
51:21
to
51:21
tackle
51:22
is
51:23
very
51:24
centralized.
51:25
You
51:25
know,
51:25
there's,
51:26
there's
51:26
X
51:26
number
51:26
of
51:27
publishers
51:27
who
51:27
bought
51:28
all
51:28
the
51:28
other
51:28
little
51:28
publishers
51:30
and
51:30
they
51:30
have
51:31
a
51:31
lot
51:31
of
51:31
the
51:31
power,
51:32
the
51:32
artists
51:32
naturally
51:33
go
51:33
there
51:34
because
51:35
they
51:35
go,
51:35
well,
51:36
you'll
51:36
expose
51:37
me
51:37
to
51:38
blah,
51:38
blah,
51:38
blah,
51:38
blah,
51:39
blah.
51:39
You've
51:40
already
51:40
got
51:40
all
51:40
the
51:40
agreements.
51:42
Whereas
51:42
the
51:43
model
51:43
you're
51:44
proposing
51:44
is
51:44
work
51:45
direct
51:45
with
51:46
foreplay.
51:47
And
51:48
you
51:48
will
51:48
get
51:49
paid
51:49
per
51:49
listen,
51:50
per
51:51
play,
51:51
for
51:51
the
51:51
user.
51:53
And
51:54
you
51:54
know,
51:54
as
51:55
a
51:56
user,
51:56
listener,
51:57
whatever,
51:57
you
51:58
know
51:58
what's
51:58
going
51:59
to
51:59
the
51:59
artist.
51:59
There's
52:00
no
52:00
mystery.
52:01
Your
52:01
favorite
52:02
artist,
52:02
completely
52:02
transparent,
52:03
bring
52:03
you
52:03
the
52:03
most
52:03
joy,
52:04
gets
52:05
the
52:05
biggest
52:05
cut
52:06
of
52:06
whatever
52:06
you
52:06
spent.
52:08
Whether
52:09
you
52:09
listen
52:09
to
52:09
it
52:09
10
52:10
times
52:10
or
52:10
100
52:11
times,
52:12
you're
52:12
paying
52:13
every
52:13
time.
52:14
And
52:14
it's
52:14
not
52:15
a
52:15
huge
52:15
amount
52:15
of
52:15
money,
52:15
but
52:16
it
52:16
does
52:16
add
52:16
up.
52:17
And
52:17
I
52:18
had
52:18
a
52:18
guy
52:18
this
52:19
wonderful
52:19
conversation
52:20
and
52:20
he
52:20
was
52:20
like,
52:21
wait
52:21
a
52:21
second,
52:21
if
52:22
I
52:22
pay
52:22
a
52:22
song
52:22
100
52:23
times,
52:24
I'm
52:24
paying
52:25
you
52:25
four
52:25
quid.
52:26
I
52:26
was
52:26
like,
52:26
you
52:26
must
52:27
love
52:27
that
52:27
song.
52:29
It's
52:29
like,
52:29
oh,
52:29
well,
52:30
yeah,
52:31
I
52:31
mean,
52:31
but
52:32
I
52:32
could
52:32
just
52:32
buy
52:32
it
52:33
for
52:33
like
52:33
99p.
52:34
Like,
52:34
yeah,
52:35
you
52:35
could,
52:36
but
52:36
at
52:36
what
52:37
point
52:37
did
52:37
you
52:37
decide
52:37
that's
52:38
what
52:38
you
52:38
wanted
52:38
to
52:38
do,
52:39
right?
52:39
And
52:40
he's
52:40
like,
52:40
well,
52:40
after
52:40
I've
52:41
spent
52:41
a
52:41
pound,
52:41
I
52:42
should
52:42
get
52:42
that
52:42
song
52:42
for
52:42
free
52:43
forever.
52:43
And
52:44
I
52:44
was
52:44
like,
52:44
should
52:44
you?
52:45
Like,
52:45
I
52:46
still
52:46
have
52:46
a
52:46
cost
52:46
to
52:46
serve
52:47
that
52:47
song
52:47
to
52:47
you
52:47
and
52:48
that
52:48
artist.
52:48
Well,
52:48
they're
52:49
not
52:49
making
52:49
any
52:49
money
52:49
anymore
52:50
because
52:50
they
52:50
hit
52:50
this
52:50
imaginary
52:51
threshold
52:52
that
52:52
Steve
52:52
Jobs
52:52
decided
52:53
20
52:53
years
52:53
ago
52:54
and
52:56
make
52:56
it
52:56
make
52:57
sense.
52:57
Right?
52:58
And
52:58
to
52:58
me,
52:59
like,
52:59
what's
52:59
the
52:59
simplest
53:00
thing
53:00
that
53:00
will
53:00
work?
53:01
What's
53:01
the.
53:01
Like,
53:02
don't
53:02
make
53:02
me
53:03
think
53:03
level
53:04
of
53:04
interaction
53:05
here?
53:05
And
53:05
that
53:05
is
53:06
when
53:06
I
53:06
press
53:07
play,
53:07
I'm
53:07
paying
53:07
4p
53:08
to
53:08
listen
53:08
to
53:08
a
53:09
song.
53:09
60%
53:10
of
53:10
that
53:10
goes
53:11
to
53:11
the
53:11
artist.
53:11
20%
53:12
of
53:12
that
53:13
goes
53:13
to
53:13
our
53:13
costs.
53:14
And
53:14
then
53:14
we've
53:14
got
53:15
a
53:15
little
53:15
margin
53:15
at
53:15
the
53:15
top,
53:16
you
53:16
know,
53:16
at
53:17
scale,
53:17
where
53:17
we
53:17
can
53:17
sustain
53:18
the
53:18
business
53:18
so
53:19
we
53:19
don't
53:19
have
53:19
to
53:19
do
53:19
things
53:20
like
53:20
screw
53:20
over
53:21
artists
53:21
or
53:22
screw
53:22
you
53:22
over
53:23
and
53:23
start
53:23
selling
53:23
your
53:24
data
53:24
and
53:24
manipulating
53:25
your
53:25
attention
53:26
and
53:26
sending
53:26
you
53:27
music
53:27
you
53:27
don't
53:27
want
53:27
to
53:28
hear.
53:28
Because
53:28
somebody's
53:29
going
53:29
to
53:29
give
53:29
us
53:29
a
53:30
little
53:30
more
53:30
money
53:30
if
53:30
we
53:31
get
53:31
them
53:31
in
53:31
the
53:31
charts
53:31
or
53:32
whatever
53:32
stupid
53:33
games
53:33
people
53:33
play
53:34
in
53:34
the
53:34
industry
53:35
today.
53:35
It's
53:35
just
53:36
a.
53:36
What
53:36
you
53:36
see
53:37
is
53:37
what
53:37
you
53:37
get.
53:38
You
53:38
ask
53:38
for
53:39
it,
53:39
we
53:39
deliver
53:39
it.
53:40
This
53:40
is
53:40
where
53:40
I
53:40
need
53:40
some
53:40
marketing
53:41
help,
53:41
Mikey,
53:42
so
53:42
we'll
53:43
talk
53:43
again
53:43
later.
53:44
But
53:44
it
53:45
really
53:45
is
53:45
just
53:45
like,
53:46
what
53:46
is.
53:46
How
53:46
do
53:46
you
53:47
boil
53:47
this
53:47
thing
53:47
down
53:48
to
53:48
a
53:49
level
53:49
of
53:49
don't
53:49
make
53:49
me
53:50
think.
53:51
It
53:51
just
53:51
is
53:51
what
53:52
it
53:52
is?
53:52
My
53:52
immediate
53:53
thought
53:53
is
53:53
I
53:53
love
53:54
the
53:54
idea
53:54
of
53:54
the
53:54
artist
53:55
getting
53:55
the
53:55
money.
53:56
I
53:56
love
53:57
the
53:57
idea
53:57
of
53:57
the
53:58
artists
53:58
I
53:58
listen
53:58
to
53:59
most
53:59
getting
53:59
most
54:00
of
54:00
my
54:00
money.
54:01
Yeah,
54:01
I
54:02
love
54:02
the
54:02
idea
54:03
of
54:03
trying
54:03
to
54:03
cut
54:04
out
54:04
the.
54:05
The.
54:05
All
54:05
the
54:06
different.
54:07
You
54:07
know,
54:07
there's
54:07
like.
54:08
There's
54:08
a
54:08
story
54:09
to
54:09
tell,
54:09
which
54:09
is
54:10
in
54:10
this
54:11
confusing
54:11
world
54:12
we
54:12
live
54:12
in,
54:13
where
54:14
we
54:14
are
54:14
served
54:14
with
54:15
ads,
54:15
ads,
54:15
ads
54:16
all
54:16
the
54:16
time,
54:17
where
54:17
we
54:17
are
54:18
traded
54:19
behind
54:19
the
54:19
scenes,
54:20
behind
54:20
this
54:20
mystery
54:21
curtain
54:22
a
54:22
million
54:22
times
54:23
over,
54:24
and
54:24
then
54:25
marketed
54:25
to
54:25
again
54:26
and.
54:27
And
54:27
potentially
54:28
manipulated.
54:29
Because
54:29
the
54:29
more
54:30
that
54:30
they
54:30
know,
54:31
whether
54:31
intentionally
54:32
or
54:32
unintentionally,
54:32
the
54:33
more
54:33
they
54:33
know
54:33
about
54:33
us,
54:34
the
54:34
more
54:34
they
54:34
can.
54:35
That
54:35
can
54:36
be
54:36
used
54:36
by
54:37
somebody
54:37
else.
54:37
Let's
54:38
just
54:38
say
54:39
they
54:39
have
54:39
perfect
54:40
intentions,
54:40
but
54:41
the
54:41
person
54:41
who
54:41
buys
54:42
it
54:42
doesn't.
54:43
That's
54:43
the
54:43
challenge.
54:44
The
54:44
challenge
54:45
is
54:45
we
54:45
are.
54:45
We
54:45
are
54:46
being
54:46
traded
54:47
without
54:47
even
54:47
knowing
54:48
it.
54:49
So
54:49
it's
54:49
not
54:49
just
54:50
about
54:50
the
54:50
artist.
54:50
It's
54:51
about
54:51
you.
54:52
One
54:52
bit
54:52
of
54:52
feedback
54:53
that
54:53
I
54:53
think
54:53
you
54:53
could
54:53
employ
54:54
pretty
54:54
quickly
54:56
is
54:57
the
54:57
idea
54:57
that
54:58
I
54:58
do
54:58
think
54:58
I.
54:59
So
54:59
I.
54:59
You
55:00
and
55:00
I
55:00
may
55:00
disagree
55:01
on
55:01
this
55:01
slightly.
55:02
The
55:02
one
55:02
thing
55:03
that
55:03
I
55:03
think
55:04
should
55:04
happen
55:04
when
55:05
you
55:05
get
55:05
to
55:05
a
55:05
certain
55:05
number
55:06
of
55:06
plays,
55:06
whatever
55:06
number
55:07
we
55:07
decide
55:07
that
55:07
is.
55:08
Yeah,
55:09
you've
55:10
contributed
55:10
enough
55:11
to
55:11
own
55:11
that
55:12
for
55:12
your
55:12
own
55:12
personal
55:13
use.
55:13
I
55:13
think
55:14
that
55:14
that
55:14
is
55:15
because
55:15
I.
55:16
Some
55:16
of
55:16
my
55:17
favorite
55:17
songs
55:18
I
55:18
play.
55:19
I
55:20
don't
55:20
know.
55:20
I'd
55:20
have
55:21
to
55:21
go
55:21
look,
55:21
but
55:21
a
55:21
lot.
55:22
Oh,
55:22
yeah,
55:22
right.
55:22
A
55:23
lot.
55:23
Yeah.
55:23
And
55:24
like,
55:24
if
55:24
we're
55:25
dealing
55:25
with
55:25
the
55:25
market
55:25
reality,
55:26
which
55:26
is
55:27
if
55:27
I
55:27
want.
55:28
If
55:28
the
55:28
alternative
55:29
for
55:29
me
55:30
is
55:30
I
55:30
go
55:30
buy
55:31
a
55:31
CD
55:32
of
55:32
that
55:33
thing,
55:33
if
55:33
that's
55:34
buying
55:34
the
55:34
thing,
55:36
there
55:36
is
55:36
a
55:36
cutoff
55:37
point
55:37
at
55:37
which
55:37
I
55:37
do
55:37
technically
55:38
own
55:38
it
55:38
legally,
55:39
personally
55:39
and
55:40
everything
55:40
else.
55:41
Yeah.
55:41
And
55:41
that's
55:42
just.
55:42
That's
55:42
the
55:42
world
55:43
we
55:43
live
55:43
in.
55:44
I
55:44
think
55:44
that
55:44
there
55:44
should
55:45
be
55:45
a
55:45
play
55:46
number
55:47
where
55:47
you
55:47
officially
55:48
own
55:49
and.
55:49
And
55:50
you.
55:50
You
55:50
are,
55:51
you
55:51
know,
55:52
you
55:52
achieve
55:52
certain
55:52
levels
55:53
within
55:53
the
55:54
platform.
55:54
Yeah,
55:55
yeah.
55:55
Where.
55:55
Where.
55:56
Where
55:56
the
55:56
community
55:57
loves
55:57
you
55:57
for
55:57
the
55:58
fact
55:58
that
55:58
you
55:58
are
55:58
investing
55:59
in
55:59
this
56:00
talent
56:01
and
56:01
supporting
56:02
it,
56:02
but
56:03
you're
56:03
also
56:03
an
56:03
owner
56:04
of
56:04
a
56:04
piece
56:05
of
56:05
that
56:05
talent
56:06
for
56:06
your
56:06
own
56:06
personal
56:06
use.
56:08
It's
56:08
something
56:09
we've
56:09
considered
56:10
and
56:10
thank
56:11
you
56:11
for
56:11
that.
56:11
I
56:11
appreciate
56:12
just
56:13
where
56:14
that
56:14
comes
56:14
from,
56:15
which
56:15
is
56:16
a
56:17
deep
56:17
love
56:17
for
56:17
the
56:18
music
56:18
and
56:19
a
56:19
recognition
56:20
that,
56:20
hey,
56:21
I
56:21
am
56:22
invested
56:22
in
56:22
this
56:23
thing
56:23
and
56:24
I
56:24
feel
56:24
like
56:24
I
56:24
should
56:25
have
56:25
something
56:25
to
56:26
show
56:26
for
56:26
it.
56:27
Right.
56:28
So
56:29
it
56:29
is
56:30
weird.
56:30
We
56:30
kind
56:30
of
56:32
sit
56:32
in
56:32
this
56:32
weird
56:33
spot
56:33
where
56:35
there
56:35
is
56:35
no
56:36
ownership.
56:37
As
56:38
someone
56:38
who's
56:38
moved
56:39
internationally
56:39
twice
56:40
over
56:40
the
56:41
last
56:41
few
56:41
years,
56:41
I
56:42
have
56:42
no
56:42
desire
56:43
to
56:43
move
56:43
my
56:43
vinyl
56:44
ever
56:44
again.
56:46
And
56:46
I
56:46
have
56:47
even
56:47
less
56:48
desire
56:48
to
56:48
bring
56:49
more
56:49
physical
56:50
items
56:50
into
56:50
my
56:51
life.
56:52
And
56:53
I
56:53
am
56:53
maybe
56:53
further
56:54
down
56:54
that
56:54
path
56:55
of
56:55
saying
56:55
I'm
56:56
okay
56:56
not
56:56
owning
56:57
these
56:57
things
56:57
or
56:58
I
56:58
want
56:58
to
56:58
own
56:58
a
56:58
select
56:59
few
56:59
things,
56:59
or
57:00
even
57:00
saying,
57:02
I
57:02
still
57:02
love
57:03
this
57:03
music
57:04
and
57:04
I'm
57:04
willing
57:05
to
57:05
pay
57:05
a
57:06
tiny
57:06
bit
57:06
as
57:06
a
57:07
token
57:07
gesture
57:08
for
57:08
how
57:08
much
57:09
it
57:09
still
57:09
means
57:09
to
57:09
me.
57:10
And,
57:10
you
57:10
know,
57:11
I
57:11
go
57:11
back
57:11
to
57:12
those
57:12
early
57:12
90s
57:13
songs
57:14
and
57:14
like
57:15
the
57:15
hip
57:15
hop
57:15
of
57:15
my
57:16
youth
57:16
and
57:17
just
57:17
the
57:17
magic
57:18
to
57:18
hear
57:18
these
57:19
songs,
57:19
it
57:19
just
57:19
puts
57:20
me
57:20
right
57:20
back
57:20
in
57:21
that
57:21
moment
57:21
or
57:22
any
57:22
number
57:22
of
57:22
moments
57:23
along
57:23
the
57:23
years
57:24
where
57:25
it
57:25
came
57:25
back
57:25
in
57:26
and
57:26
some
57:26
really
57:26
interesting
57:27
or,
57:28
you
57:28
know,
57:28
there's
57:28
some
57:29
person
57:29
to
57:29
which
57:30
we
57:30
just
57:30
deeply
57:30
connect
57:31
over
57:31
this
57:31
very
57:32
specific
57:32
thing.
57:33
And,
57:34
And
57:34
I
57:35
guess,
57:35
you
57:35
know,
57:35
on
57:36
a
57:36
certain
57:36
level,
57:36
for
57:36
me,
57:37
that
57:37
has
57:37
a
57:37
value
57:38
far
57:38
beyond
57:40
4p
57:41
or
57:42
even
57:42
a
57:42
pound.
57:43
But
57:44
I,
57:45
you
57:45
know,
57:46
this
57:46
is
57:46
new
57:46
and
57:47
we'll
57:47
have
57:47
to
57:47
figure
57:47
out,
57:48
like,
57:48
where
57:48
is
57:48
that
57:48
threshold?
57:49
For
57:49
sure,
57:49
we'll
57:50
have
57:50
a
57:50
chat
57:51
off
57:51
camera
57:51
about
57:51
this.
57:52
But
57:52
the
57:52
point
57:52
is,
57:52
I
57:53
think
57:53
there's
57:53
a
57:53
really
57:53
cool
57:54
way
57:54
that
57:54
you
57:54
could
57:54
maybe,
57:55
yeah.
57:55
Put
57:56
that
57:56
together
57:56
because
57:57
it's
57:57
not
57:58
about,
57:58
as,
57:58
you
57:58
know,
57:59
in
57:59
the
57:59
product
57:59
world,
58:00
it's
58:00
not
58:00
about
58:00
you
58:01
or
58:01
me.
58:01
It's
58:02
about
58:02
ultimately
58:03
what.
58:03
What
58:03
the.
58:04
What
58:04
the
58:04
user
58:05
listener.
58:06
Yeah.
58:06
Like
58:07
how
58:07
we
58:07
deliver
58:08
the
58:08
value
58:08
that
58:09
they,
58:09
you
58:09
know,
58:10
if
58:10
that
58:10
feature
58:10
is
58:11
a
58:11
non
58:11
starter,
58:12
then
58:12
you're
58:13
like,
58:13
okay,
58:13
we
58:13
need
58:13
to
58:14
adapt
58:14
our
58:14
thinking
58:15
here,
58:15
which
58:15
you
58:15
seem
58:16
totally
58:16
open
58:16
to
58:16
for
58:17
the
58:17
scaling
58:18
founder.
58:19
How
58:19
do
58:19
you
58:20
like
58:21
balance?
58:21
You're
58:22
kind
58:22
of
58:22
in
58:22
that,
58:22
that
58:23
exciting
58:23
part
58:24
where
58:24
you're,
58:24
you're
58:25
realizing,
58:26
like,
58:26
you're
58:26
going
58:27
out
58:27
and
58:27
doing
58:27
the
58:28
thing
58:28
and
58:28
realizing
58:29
that
58:29
there
58:29
are
58:29
some
58:29
challenges
58:30
along
58:30
the
58:30
way.
58:31
How
58:32
do
58:32
you
58:33
measure
58:33
that?
58:34
Like,
58:34
how
58:34
do
58:35
you
58:35
keep
58:35
that
58:35
going
58:35
alongside
58:36
the
58:37
obvious,
58:37
you
58:37
know,
58:38
financial
58:38
realities
58:39
and
58:39
challenges
58:40
and
58:40
what
58:40
you're
58:40
trying
58:40
to
58:41
build?
58:41
How
58:41
do
58:42
you
58:42
feel
58:42
you.
58:43
You
58:43
balance
58:43
that
58:44
best?
58:44
And
58:44
what
58:44
if.
58:45
I
58:45
suppose
58:45
more
58:45
than
58:45
anything,
58:46
what
58:46
advice
58:46
would
58:47
you
58:47
give
58:47
to
58:47
somebody
58:47
who,
58:48
who
58:48
has
58:49
the
58:49
passion,
58:49
just
58:50
like
58:50
you
58:50
do,
58:51
for
58:51
music
58:51
or
58:52
whatever
58:52
it
58:52
is?
58:52
If
58:53
it's
58:54
Pokemon,
58:55
whatever.
58:55
Yeah.
58:57
Where
58:57
did
58:57
that
58:57
come
58:57
from?
58:59
I
58:59
don't
58:59
know.
59:02
I
59:02
go
59:02
back
59:02
to
59:03
the
59:03
quote
59:03
I
59:04
gave
59:04
earlier
59:04
about
59:05
the
59:05
create
59:05
hope
59:06
and
59:06
define
59:06
reality.
59:07
I
59:07
think
59:07
you
59:07
need
59:07
to
59:08
have
59:08
a
59:08
foot
59:08
in
59:08
each
59:08
camp.
59:09
And
59:10
I've
59:10
got
59:11
a
59:11
slide
59:11
in
59:11
my
59:11
pitch
59:12
deck
59:12
that
59:12
shows
59:13
some
59:13
pretty
59:13
outlandish
59:14
numbers.
59:15
And
59:16
people
59:16
are
59:16
always
59:17
like,
59:17
yeah,
59:17
those
59:17
are
59:17
of
59:17
kind.
59:18
Cut
59:18
that
59:19
in
59:19
half.
59:19
I'm
59:20
like,
59:20
well,
59:20
they
59:20
used
59:20
to
59:20
be
59:20
about
59:21
10x.
59:22
So
59:23
I
59:23
did
59:24
and
59:24
then
59:24
some.
59:25
And
59:26
I
59:26
leave
59:27
it
59:27
as
59:27
an
59:27
exercise
59:27
to
59:28
the
59:28
viewer
59:28
to
59:29
say,
59:29
well,
59:29
Is
59:29
that
59:29
number
59:30
50%?
59:31
Is
59:31
it
59:31
20%?
59:32
That's
59:32
still
59:33
a
59:33
big
59:33
number
59:34
right
59:35
now
59:35
we
59:35
can
59:36
talk
59:36
about
59:36
what
59:36
is
59:37
more
59:37
realistic
59:37
and
59:38
how
59:38
do
59:38
we
59:38
actually
59:38
get
59:39
to
59:39
these
59:39
numbers
59:40
as
59:40
opposed
59:41
to,
59:41
well,
59:41
I'm
59:42
going
59:42
to
59:42
continue
59:42
to
59:43
lower
59:44
it
59:44
down
59:44
and
59:44
make
59:45
it
59:45
more
59:45
modest
59:45
and
59:46
pretend
59:46
that,
59:47
like,
59:47
oh,
59:48
I
59:48
don't
59:48
have
59:48
big
59:48
ambitions.
59:49
I'm
59:49
not
59:49
trying
59:50
to
59:50
take
59:50
on
59:50
the
59:50
world.
59:51
You
59:51
know,
59:51
we
59:52
really
59:52
didn't
59:52
talk
59:52
about
59:53
the
59:53
Spotify
59:54
setup,
59:54
even
59:55
though
59:55
that's
59:55
how
59:55
we
59:56
led
59:56
off
59:56
here.
59:57
And
59:57
for
59:57
anyone
59:57
who
59:58
lasted
59:58
this
59:58
long,
59:58
here's
59:59
your
59:59
payoff.
59:59
Like,
1:00:00
of
1:00:00
course
1:00:00
we're
1:00:01
competing
1:00:01
with
1:00:01
Spotify.
1:00:02
The
1:00:02
question
1:00:02
is
1:00:03
where
1:00:04
and
1:00:04
on
1:00:04
whose
1:00:04
terms,
1:00:05
and
1:00:06
if
1:00:06
we're
1:00:06
going
1:00:06
to
1:00:06
compete
1:00:07
with
1:00:07
them
1:00:07
head
1:00:07
on,
1:00:08
well,
1:00:08
we're
1:00:08
going
1:00:08
to
1:00:08
fail.
1:00:09
We're
1:00:09
going
1:00:09
to
1:00:10
fail
1:00:10
miserably
1:00:10
if
1:00:11
we
1:00:11
try
1:00:11
to
1:00:11
compete
1:00:11
with
1:00:11
YouTube
1:00:12
head
1:00:12
on.
1:00:12
But
1:00:13
if
1:00:13
we
1:00:13
come
1:00:13
at
1:00:13
it
1:00:13
to
1:00:14
the
1:00:14
side,
1:00:14
or
1:00:14
if
1:00:14
we
1:00:15
come
1:00:15
at
1:00:15
it
1:00:15
just
1:00:15
below,
1:00:15
or
1:00:16
if
1:00:16
we
1:00:16
come
1:00:16
at
1:00:16
it
1:00:16
even
1:00:17
a
1:00:17
spot
1:00:17
where
1:00:18
they're
1:00:18
not
1:00:18
focused,
1:00:19
then
1:00:19
we
1:00:19
have
1:00:19
an
1:00:20
opportunity
1:00:20
to
1:00:20
do
1:00:21
something
1:00:21
unique
1:00:22
and
1:00:22
potentially
1:00:22
very
1:00:23
valuable.
1:00:24
And
1:00:24
so
1:00:25
much
1:00:25
of
1:00:25
what
1:00:26
we've
1:00:26
done
1:00:26
over
1:00:26
the
1:00:27
last
1:00:27
year
1:00:27
or
1:00:27
so
1:00:27
is
1:00:28
really
1:00:28
just
1:00:28
understanding
1:00:29
the
1:00:29
market,
1:00:29
the
1:00:30
nuance
1:00:30
where
1:00:31
the
1:00:31
Opportunities
1:00:32
are
1:00:32
and
1:00:33
how
1:00:33
we
1:00:33
get
1:00:33
our
1:00:34
foot
1:00:34
in
1:00:34
the
1:00:34
door
1:00:34
and
1:00:35
how
1:00:35
we
1:00:35
establish
1:00:36
who
1:00:36
we
1:00:36
are
1:00:36
and
1:00:37
what
1:00:37
we
1:00:37
mean
1:00:38
and
1:00:38
how
1:00:38
we
1:00:38
grow
1:00:39
from
1:00:39
that
1:00:39
point
1:00:40
forward.
1:00:41
And
1:00:43
that's
1:00:43
another
1:00:44
episode
1:00:44
for
1:00:45
sure.
1:00:46
But
1:00:46
that
1:00:46
is
1:00:46
the
1:00:47
real
1:00:47
sort
1:00:47
of
1:00:48
meta
1:00:48
work
1:00:49
within
1:00:49
all
1:00:49
this.
1:00:50
We
1:00:50
can
1:00:50
talk
1:00:50
about
1:00:51
the
1:00:51
high
1:00:51
level
1:00:52
overview
1:00:52
and
1:00:53
yeah,
1:00:53
we
1:00:53
want
1:00:53
to
1:00:53
go
1:00:53
do
1:00:54
all
1:00:54
these
1:00:54
things,
1:00:54
but
1:00:55
it's
1:00:55
the
1:00:55
iteration
1:00:56
and
1:00:56
the
1:00:57
quick
1:00:57
learning
1:00:57
and
1:00:58
refinement
1:00:59
that
1:00:59
goes
1:00:59
on
1:00:59
within
1:01:00
those
1:01:00
cycles
1:01:01
that
1:01:01
really
1:01:01
is
1:01:02
where
1:01:02
the
1:01:02
magic
1:01:02
happens.
1:01:03
I
1:01:03
deeply
1:01:04
love
1:01:04
that
1:01:05
work.
1:01:06
I
1:01:06
find
1:01:06
it
1:01:07
utterly
1:01:07
fascinating
1:01:08
to
1:01:08
be
1:01:08
able
1:01:08
to
1:01:08
just
1:01:09
shift
1:01:09
a
1:01:10
couple
1:01:10
game
1:01:10
pieces
1:01:10
around
1:01:11
and
1:01:11
see
1:01:11
like,
1:01:12
oh,
1:01:12
well,
1:01:13
that
1:01:13
opens
1:01:13
up
1:01:13
this
1:01:14
totally
1:01:14
new
1:01:14
flank
1:01:15
that
1:01:15
we
1:01:15
hadn't
1:01:15
considered.
1:01:16
And
1:01:16
if
1:01:17
we
1:01:17
focus
1:01:17
here,
1:01:17
then
1:01:18
that
1:01:18
opens
1:01:18
up
1:01:18
this
1:01:18
bit
1:01:19
that
1:01:19
just
1:01:19
really
1:01:20
wasn't
1:01:20
attainable
1:01:20
for
1:01:21
us
1:01:21
before.
1:01:22
And
1:01:23
just
1:01:24
being
1:01:24
able
1:01:24
to
1:01:25
sort
1:01:25
of
1:01:26
map
1:01:27
it
1:01:27
all
1:01:27
out
1:01:27
and
1:01:28
see
1:01:28
it.
1:01:28
And
1:01:28
I'm
1:01:29
by
1:01:29
no
1:01:29
means
1:01:29
a
1:01:29
mapping
1:01:29
expert,
1:01:30
but
1:01:30
to,
1:01:31
to
1:01:31
have
1:01:31
a
1:01:32
mental
1:01:32
model
1:01:32
and
1:01:32
to
1:01:33
be
1:01:33
able
1:01:33
to
1:01:33
play
1:01:33
that
1:01:33
game
1:01:34
in
1:01:34
real
1:01:34
time
1:01:35
is
1:01:35
really,
1:01:35
really
1:01:36
fascinating
1:01:36
stuff.
1:01:37
And
1:01:37
I
1:01:38
think
1:01:38
that's
1:01:38
the
1:01:38
meta
1:01:39
work
1:01:39
in
1:01:39
all
1:01:39
of
1:01:39
this.
1:01:40
It
1:01:40
isn't
1:01:40
just
1:01:41
writing
1:01:41
the
1:01:41
mission
1:01:41
or
1:01:42
the
1:01:42
vision
1:01:42
or
1:01:44
putting
1:01:44
a
1:01:44
website
1:01:44
out
1:01:45
or
1:01:45
even
1:01:45
putting
1:01:45
a
1:01:46
product
1:01:46
out.
1:01:46
It's
1:01:47
what
1:01:47
is
1:01:47
that
1:01:47
machinery
1:01:48
behind
1:01:48
the
1:01:48
scenes
1:01:49
that's
1:01:49
going
1:01:49
to
1:01:49
continue
1:01:49
to
1:01:50
drive
1:01:50
this
1:01:50
thing
1:01:50
forward
1:01:51
and
1:01:51
increase
1:01:52
your
1:01:52
likelihood
1:01:53
of
1:01:53
success?
1:01:53
Maybe
1:01:54
one
1:01:54
last
1:01:54
anecdote
1:01:55
I
1:01:55
learned
1:01:56
two
1:01:56
companies
1:01:57
ago,
1:01:58
and
1:01:58
it
1:01:58
was
1:01:59
attributed
1:01:59
to
1:01:59
an
1:02:00
investor
1:02:01
who
1:02:01
said,
1:02:02
you
1:02:02
think
1:02:02
you're
1:02:02
hiring
1:02:03
a
1:02:03
VP
1:02:03
of
1:02:03
product,
1:02:04
which
1:02:04
is
1:02:04
what
1:02:04
I
1:02:04
was
1:02:05
to
1:02:05
come
1:02:05
in
1:02:06
and
1:02:06
build
1:02:06
product.
1:02:07
But
1:02:07
no,
1:02:07
you're
1:02:07
hiring
1:02:08
a
1:02:08
VP
1:02:08
of
1:02:08
product
1:02:09
to
1:02:09
build
1:02:09
a
1:02:09
machine
1:02:10
that
1:02:10
builds
1:02:11
product.
1:02:11
And
1:02:12
when
1:02:12
you
1:02:12
got
1:02:12
a
1:02:12
machine,
1:02:13
then
1:02:13
you
1:02:13
can
1:02:13
put
1:02:13
anything
1:02:14
in
1:02:14
that
1:02:14
hopper
1:02:15
and
1:02:15
turn
1:02:15
anything
1:02:16
out.
1:02:16
But
1:02:16
if
1:02:16
all
1:02:17
you're
1:02:17
doing
1:02:17
is
1:02:17
just
1:02:17
building
1:02:18
a
1:02:18
product,
1:02:18
well,
1:02:18
you
1:02:19
got
1:02:19
one
1:02:19
chance,
1:02:21
really
1:02:21
thinking
1:02:22
about
1:02:22
this
1:02:22
company
1:02:22
as
1:02:23
a
1:02:23
machine
1:02:23
that
1:02:23
can
1:02:23
churn
1:02:24
out
1:02:24
any
1:02:24
number
1:02:24
of
1:02:25
of
1:02:25
realities
1:02:27
and
1:02:28
being
1:02:28
able
1:02:29
to
1:02:29
sort
1:02:29
of
1:02:29
game
1:02:29
that
1:02:30
out
1:02:30
and
1:02:30
figure
1:02:30
out
1:02:31
how
1:02:31
to
1:02:32
tune
1:02:32
it,
1:02:32
how
1:02:32
to
1:02:32
point
1:02:33
it
1:02:34
is
1:02:35
just
1:02:35
like,
1:02:36
that's
1:02:36
the
1:02:36
work
1:02:36
that
1:02:37
gets
1:02:37
me
1:02:37
up.
1:02:37
That's
1:02:37
the
1:02:38
work
1:02:38
that
1:02:38
keeps
1:02:38
me
1:02:38
up
1:02:39
late
1:02:39
and
1:02:39
wakes
1:02:40
me
1:02:40
up
1:02:40
in
1:02:40
the
1:02:40
morning.
1:02:40
And
1:02:41
I
1:02:41
love
1:02:41
that
1:02:42
stuff.
1:02:42
So
1:02:43
total
1:02:43
cliffhanger.
1:02:44
But
1:02:44
we
1:02:44
can
1:02:44
come
1:02:44
in
1:02:45
and
1:02:45
do
1:02:45
that
1:02:45
and
1:02:45
do
1:02:46
some
1:02:46
more.
1:02:47
Yeah,
1:02:47
yeah,
1:02:48
we
1:02:48
will
1:02:49
definitely
1:02:49
have
1:02:50
you
1:02:50
back
1:02:50
on
1:02:50
the
1:02:50
podcast.
1:02:52
People
1:02:52
do
1:02:53
check
1:02:53
out.
1:02:54
I'll
1:02:54
pop
1:02:54
it
1:02:54
into
1:02:54
the
1:02:55
show
1:02:55
notes
1:02:55
and
1:02:55
into
1:02:56
the
1:02:56
description.
1:02:57
Scott
1:02:58
will
1:02:58
come
1:02:58
back
1:02:58
and
1:02:59
tell
1:02:59
us
1:02:59
how
1:02:59
he's
1:03:00
taking
1:03:00
on
1:03:00
David
1:03:01
versus
1:03:01
Goliath
1:03:02
in
1:03:02
real
1:03:03
life
1:03:03
in,
1:03:04
in
1:03:04
due
1:03:04
course.
1:03:05
But
1:03:06
I'll
1:03:06
pop
1:03:06
everything
1:03:06
down
1:03:07
in
1:03:07
the
1:03:07
show
1:03:07
notes
1:03:07
description
1:03:08
to
1:03:09
Scott's
1:03:09
website
1:03:10
and
1:03:10
to
1:03:10
his
1:03:10
LinkedIn
1:03:11
etc,
1:03:11
so
1:03:12
you
1:03:12
can
1:03:12
reach
1:03:12
out
1:03:12
and
1:03:13
chat
1:03:13
with
1:03:13
him
1:03:14
if
1:03:14
you'd
1:03:14
like
1:03:14
to
1:03:14
get
1:03:14
on
1:03:15
board
1:03:15
with
1:03:15
it.
1:03:16
Scott,
1:03:16
thank
1:03:17
you.
1:03:17
Thank
1:03:18
you,
1:03:18
Mikey.
1:03:18
This
1:03:18
is
1:03:18
fantastic.
1:03:19
Yeah,
1:03:19
we
1:03:20
could
1:03:20
do
1:03:20
hours.
1:03:21
Sure
1:03:21
we
1:03:22
could.
1:03:22
We
1:03:22
could.
1:03:23
So
1:03:24
thank
1:03:24
you.
1:03:24
Thank
1:03:25
you
1:03:25
very
1:03:25
much
1:03:25
for
1:03:25
listening
1:03:25
as
1:03:26
well.
1:03:26
Please
1:03:27
do,
1:03:27
like,
1:03:28
comment,
1:03:28
subscribe,
1:03:29
whatever
1:03:29
options
1:03:30
you
1:03:30
have
1:03:30
on
1:03:30
whichever
1:03:31
platform
1:03:32
you're
1:03:32
listening
1:03:32
on
1:03:32
right
1:03:33
now.
1:03:33
Thank
1:03:33
you
1:03:33
so
1:03:33
much
1:03:33
for
1:03:34
listening
1:03:34
and
1:03:34
thank
1:03:34
you,
1:03:34
Scott.