Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Building an AI Powered Health System with Deb Muro

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Building an AI Powered Health System with Deb Muro · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  - There's a small circle of people who truly
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  - understand what it takes to lead a health
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  - system right now. The decisions are enormous.
• 0:08
  - The variables are constantly shifting, and the stakes
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  - of getting a call wrong don't stay contained.
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  - That's not a complaint. It's a structural reality.
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  - And it's why the most effective c suite
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  - leaders are deliberate about where they go to
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  - pressure test their thinking.
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  - Becker's fourteenth annual CEO and CFO roundtable
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  - brings together more than 1,500
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  - executive level attendees
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  - and nearly 400 speakers for four days built
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  - around growth, financial sustainability,
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  - workforce strategy, and the leadership questions that don't
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  - have easy answers.
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  - Join us November second through the fifth in
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  - Chicago.
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  - For the agenda and event details,
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  - visit beckershospitalreview.com
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  - and click on the events tab in the
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  - upper right.
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  - This is Laura Dierda with the Becker's Healthcare
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  - podcast.
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  - I'm thrilled today to be joined by Deb
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  - Murrow, chief information officer at El Camino Health.
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  - Deb, it's a pleasure to have you on
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  - the podcast today. Thank you. I'm looking forward
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  - to the discussion.
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  - Absolutely. Now I'm excited for our conversation because
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  - I know you're doing so many things at
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  - El Camino Health, and it'll be fun to
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  - learn about some of the impact you're having
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  - on the organization as well as how you're
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  - thinking about the future. But before we dive
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  - in, can you tell us a little bit
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  - more about yourself, your background, as well as
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  - El Camino Health?
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  - I would love to. So, a little bit
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  - about my background. I am the chief information
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  - officer for El Camino Health. We are located
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  - in the Silicon Valley,
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  - which is exciting. We deliver a lot of
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  - the babies from high-tech companies.
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  - And, I always say we deliver the smartest
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  - babies in the Bay Area, which is was
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  - just a fun,
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  - notation.
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  - But something to really,
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  - identify with El Camino is we are not
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  - a huge organization, but yet we're one of
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  - the top 100 hospitals in the country.
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  - We received most wired level 10 last year.
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  - And we also, this last year, just recently,
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  - celebrated
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  - receiving the IEEE
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  - milestone recognition for innovation. We actually delivered the
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  - first
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  - medical information system or electronic health record
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  - back in 1969
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  - with Lockheed Martin. And so we just celebrated
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  - with Lockheed Martin and IEEE that milestone recognition.
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  - So it's been an exciting year to think
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  - about our past and then think about how
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  - innovation continues today.
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  - Absolutely. And, you know, what a great accomplishment.
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  - I I think having that most wired recognition
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  - certainly
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  - reflects all the work that you're doing on
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  - the technology side, which isn't easy. And then
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  - having that EHR kind of development through the
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  - years, truly, truly
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  - is amazing. So from your perspective,
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  - where are you seeing some of the most
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  - powerful forces that are currently shaping digital health
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  - and IT as the system, and how do
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  - you anticipate they're gonna evolve over the next
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  - year or so?
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  - You know, as a nurse, I have a
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  - background as a nurse. I moved in to
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  - my role, in information technology several years ago,
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  - but I never have forgotten the patient.
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  - And I think as we look at health
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  - care, we have so much to do to
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  - make this a better experience for the patient.
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  - And so I'm, you know, interested in how
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  - do we
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  - really develop this ability for patients
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  - to know their path with whatever. Are they
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  - in a wellness mode? Are they
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  - dealing with an illness? Are they dealing with
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  - a chronic disease? Are they dealing with something
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  - that is is really concerning?
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  - You know, patients are really on their own
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  - today in the health care arena. And so
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  - how do we make that experience
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  - easy to navigate?
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  - How do we make it more self-service
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  - so patients and consumers can find us?
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  - They can find the care that they need,
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  - whether it's an appointment or a reach out.
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  - And, also, how do they get immediate access
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  - to the care that they need? You know,
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  - in retail, I talked to CIOs from other
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  - industries,
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  - and I learned from them because as we're
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  - thinking about the consumer today,
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  - the consumer is used to immediate
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  - access to what they need. In health care,
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  - we haven't been able to deliver that very
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  - well. And so how do we personalize that
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  - experience? How do we make it easy to
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  - access health care? How do we give them
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  - a pathway and a journey and we check-in
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  - on them?
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  - And then last, you know, how do we
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  - make sure that we're differentiating ourselves in the
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  - market? How are we making ourselves the best
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  - experience for the patient,
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  - for the clinician,
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  - and then for the employee? All those things
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  - are really important as we think about digital.
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  - Absolutely. I think it's fascinating to hear, especially
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  - when you're looking at,
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  - that consumer journey. I know the switch to
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  - trying to be immediate access is one that
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  - a lot of organizations are trying to do,
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  - but it's not necessarily easy. So could you
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  - tell me a little bit about some of
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  - the efforts that you're, put through there? How
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  - did you, kind of design the the technology
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  - as well as workflows, and what does it
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  - take in order to transform the organization to
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  - become more accessible,
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  - and serve patients
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  - in an elevated way?
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  - You know, our big focus was how do
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  - we focus
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  - all of our
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  - efforts on the patient. So how do we
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  - help a physician focus on the patient? How
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  - do when the patient comes to us
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  - that we move them quickly through,
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  - through the their journey,
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  - and how do we make sure at the
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  - end of the day they know what the
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  - next step is in their care? So what
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  - we focused on this last year is we've
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  - implemented ambient listening where the the physician can
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  - focus on the discussion with the patient
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  - and not on, you know, the documentation
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  - while the patient is with them. And that's
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  - been life changing for for physicians and for
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  - clinicians, and we're excited to grow that even
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  - beyond into our inpatient settings
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  - with, with our nurses and and other clinicians.
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  - And then we've used quite a bit of
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  - AI and imaging so that not only are
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  - we identifying
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  - what is the issue with the with the
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  - current X-ray, but we're also finding incidental findings,
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  - things that are that the AI identified
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  - that then we can treat the patient for.
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  - That was not the part of the original
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  - problem that they came to us for, which
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  - I think for patients is such a great
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  - experience to be
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  - predictive, forward thinking, helping them. And and it
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  - also is great for our organization too to
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  - be able to doing things in a planful
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  - way, not waiting till a patient is in
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  - an emergency situation.
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  - We've also revolutionized
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  - our OR block utilization
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  - so that we can fill our ORs and
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  - make them very efficient and help surgeons,
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  - find the the time that they need for
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  - their surgeries, and that has actually brought tremendous
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  - revenue to our organization.
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  - And then we brought in some technology to
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  - help us
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  - personalize the appointment scheduling process so that the
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  - patient can see many options for them. They
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  - can see the option to see a physician.
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  - They can see the option for urgent care.
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  - They can also see virtual care opportunities.
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  - So we've done all this to really make
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  - sure that we're focusing on the patient and
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  - their needs and giving them the care that
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  - they're they desire.
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  - That's so helpful to understand. And and I
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  - think that, you know, having the those efforts
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  - focus on the patient is a great true
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  - north, but then I appreciate you detailing some
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  - of the
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  - exact things that you're able to do, the
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  - technologies that went hand in hand with that
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  - in in the implementation.
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  - From the people side of it, what was
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  - it like,
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  - to kind of implement some of this? I
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  - know sometimes,
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  - the technology can be working great, but then
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  - to to actually have it implemented into the
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  - workflows and adopted appropriately
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  - takes a different skill set in, you know,
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  - leadership. So I'm curious. What was it has
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  - it been like to actually
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  - bring all this in and adopted and, make
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  - sure the teams are are doing everything that
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  - they need to do in order to make
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  - this work.
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  - You know, it's interesting because, in the old
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  - days of of IT,
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  - we just really celebrated when we implemented technology,
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  - and now we're realizing that's not enough. That
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  - it's adoption that is really the critical piece
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  - now that we measure ourselves against.
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  - And so how how are people utilizing the
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  - technology? Are they are they finding value, or
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  - is it bringing value to the organization?
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  - So, you know, as we think about technology,
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  - we're always thinking about the problem that we're
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  - trying to solve.
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  - We bring in all the key stakeholders that
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  - that problem impacts. We work with them,
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  - do a lot of change management, and then
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  - we handhold a lot, you know, as we're
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  - going through that process, you
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  - know, I think individuals and and I'm sure
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  - all of us worry about, well, what is
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  - AI going to do for our jobs? I
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  - think in the future, you know, the the,
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  - the menial, like, day to day repetitive tasks,
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  - AI is great at that.
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  - But what AI is not great at is
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  - that personal touch and that hand holding and
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  - that at the elbow support. And we're focusing.
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  - We're all in on being present with our
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  - users, seeing how they're doing with the technology,
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  - and helping them adopt it.
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  - That makes a ton of sense, and it's
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  - helpful to understand it and see too. It's
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  - definitely
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  - makes a big difference in in having that
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  - adoption rate take place and then being able
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  - to measure the value, ability, and usefulness of
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  - the different technologies.
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  - Now I'm curious. Is there anything else you
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  - wanna zero in and tell us about from
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  - the last year or so that was really
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  - beneficial for you? Is there anything you wanted
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  - to kind of outline, whether it's a project
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  - or initiative or or a big change that
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  - you were aiming to make?
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  - You know, I think, we are we are
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  - really thinking of ourselves as AI powered. So
• 9:28
  - really trying to make sure that in every
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  - scenario,
• 9:31
  - every nook and cranny of our organization,
• 9:35
  - How can we make sure that,
• 9:37
  - our employees,
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  - our patients, our physicians, all have access to
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  - to technology such as AI that's going to
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  - help them become more efficient, more effective, and
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  - and make their day better?
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  - And so as we're thinking about, you know,
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  - we we focus quite a bit on the
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  - clinical pieces of AI, and we've actually increased
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  - our adoption, our use of AI.
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  - And just the last couple of months within
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  - the EMR, we've increased it by 500%.
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  - When you think about all of the opportunities
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  - and all the use cases. And we are
• 10:08
  - very much of implementing everything that's available in
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  - our EMR so that,
• 10:13
  - we can try it out, we can use
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  - it, we can benefit from it, and and
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  - that's been a a huge, you know, capability
• 10:19
  - that we've had.
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  - And then, you know, for the future, what
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  - we're thinking about is how do we become
• 10:25
  - more predictive? How do we pull data into
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  - an area where
• 10:29
  - generative AI can sit on top of it
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  - and
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  - our employees and our physicians and, again, patients
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  - can
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  - prompt on this data and get the answer
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  - that they need immediately,
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  - kind of using the AI as a sort
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  - of a concierge type of of capability
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  - so that we don't rely on dashboards anymore
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  - and static analytics that we're using
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  - that individuals can ask those questions. So we've
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  - been implementing
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  - all different pieces and parts
• 10:57
  - of AI in the clinical world. And then
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  - on the back office,
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  - administrative area, we've been implementing,
• 11:03
  - Copilot and Claude and and providing all these
• 11:06
  - great tools
• 11:08
  - and then starting to do training with our
• 11:09
  - employees of what can AI do for you
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  - and having them vision, having them dream about
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  - how it can improve operations, how it can
• 11:17
  - improve the way that they do work. So
• 11:19
  - it's been an exciting time for us.
• 11:21
  - That's incredible to hear and and definitely cool
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  - to have that
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  - AI powered mindset,
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  - across the organization
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  - and
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  - having everybody thinking through what does it mean
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  - for them, how they can,
• 11:33
  - leverage the technology and the tools at their
• 11:35
  - fingertips to truly become,
• 11:38
  - you know, superhuman
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  - in many ways. So that's exciting to hear.
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  - Now looking into the future, where do you
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  - see some of the most important problems that
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  - you're trying to solve with AI right now
• 11:49
  - and and coming up next?
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  - You know, I think
• 11:53
  - being able to
• 11:54
  - bring value to the organization and and AI
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  - has had challenges with really demonstrating
• 12:00
  - value. We all know that it has made
• 12:02
  - life easier.
• 12:03
  - We all know that it's improved and saved
• 12:06
  - time, but it's been hard to measure and
• 12:07
  - and and really,
• 12:10
  - determine the true value. So
• 12:12
  - at the end of the day, while we're
• 12:14
  - bringing in these new technologies that we anticipate
• 12:17
  - will improve efficiency,
• 12:18
  - it's gonna be so important as for us
• 12:20
  - to really actually measure the value to really,
• 12:23
  - again, focus on the problem,
• 12:25
  - focus on what the goal is, what we're
• 12:27
  - trying to do to solve the problem.
• 12:29
  - And then after you use the technology or
• 12:31
  - bring it in, how do you measure against
• 12:33
  - it and create that value? I focused my
• 12:36
  - teams on that, and it's been great for
• 12:38
  - us to really,
• 12:40
  - not only talk about we've implemented, but what
• 12:42
  - is the true value that we've brought into
• 12:44
  - to the organization.
• 12:46
  - It's it's really something that we're all going
• 12:48
  - to be focusing on because AI is expensive.
• 12:50
  - And so as we're thinking about bringing AI
• 12:53
  - in, on the on the flip side, we
• 12:55
  - have to think about how does it save
• 12:57
  - dollars, save,
• 12:59
  - you know, cost so that we can fund
• 13:01
  - it. And so we're just wrestling with that
• 13:03
  - right now of how to demonstrate that value
• 13:06
  - so that we can
• 13:08
  - make sure that it's gonna make sense for
• 13:09
  - our organization.
• 13:11
  - That makes a ton of sense. And, to
• 13:13
  - your point, I I think that's the value
• 13:16
  - that AI brings and how to measure that
• 13:18
  - value and make sure that you're getting a
• 13:19
  - return on the investment that's put in, is
• 13:22
  - a huge challenge. And so I can imagine
• 13:25
  - every product's a little bit different, and every
• 13:28
  - technology use case has its own set of,
• 13:30
  - measurements and rules. But as you're going beyond
• 13:33
  - just showing, hey. It saves time or it
• 13:36
  - makes my job or or life easier,
• 13:38
  - are there any instances where you've been able
• 13:40
  - to actually show some of that harder ROI,
• 13:43
  - whether it's,
• 13:44
  - dollars and cents or or,
• 13:47
  - another metric that really has, made
• 13:50
  - a a difference on the organizational side. Is
• 13:52
  - there anything that you've done so far that's
• 13:54
  - really been able to show that value?
• 13:56
  - Yeah. One great example is I mentioned using
• 14:00
  - AI and radiology with incidental findings. If, you
• 14:03
  - know, a patient has an a chest X-ray,
• 14:05
  - we're looking for pneumonia,
• 14:06
  - and we and the AI identifies a lung
• 14:09
  - nodule,
• 14:10
  - then we are able to treat that patient.
• 14:11
  - And that not only benefits the patient so
• 14:14
  - that they're treated faster, but it brings revenue
• 14:16
  - into our organization. So through a three month
• 14:18
  - period, we identified 700
• 14:20
  - patients with incidental findings, which we then treated
• 14:24
  - them for. And so, you know, the ROI
• 14:26
  - on that is true, hard dollar savings of
• 14:28
  - of, you know, additional therapies, additional treatments, additional
• 14:31
  - surgeries or procedures.
• 14:33
  - You know? And I I think that the
• 14:35
  - second piece is just how have we been
• 14:37
  - able to,
• 14:39
  - improve the physician,
• 14:41
  - I would say work life balance. And that's
• 14:43
  - hard to measure.
• 14:45
  - But how we've measured it,
• 14:47
  - to to bring real, you know, exact dollars
• 14:50
  - to that scenario is that we are seeing
• 14:52
  - that our physicians are able to close their
• 14:54
  - charts faster. Sometimes the the minutes after they
• 14:58
  - see the patient, definitely within twenty four hours.
• 15:01
  - And that is, you know, the time and
• 15:02
  - cost of money bringing that in. You know,
• 15:05
  - the quicker that you chart close the chart,
• 15:07
  - the quicker you bill, the quicker that the
• 15:08
  - money is reimbursed. So we've been able to
• 15:11
  - see some of those true savings. And then
• 15:13
  - as I mentioned, the OR utilization,
• 15:16
  - you know, fulfilling our ORs using AI technology
• 15:19
  - to be predictive and know when we're going
• 15:21
  - to have an opening and how do we
• 15:22
  - fill it,
• 15:23
  - we brought in, you know, a couple million
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  - dollars,
• 15:26
  - this past year using that AI.
• 15:29
  - That's fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing
• 15:31
  - with us and kind of drawing that line
• 15:34
  - between,
• 15:35
  - whether it's the technology and the clinical side
• 15:37
  - or, what it means on the physician and
• 15:40
  - how that translates into dollars and cents and
• 15:42
  - then,
• 15:43
  - from the OR side too. Now Now before
• 15:45
  - we wrap up, I wanted to know what
• 15:47
  - are you most curious about for the future?
• 15:49
  - What's top of mind? Are are you excited
• 15:51
  - about, nervous about? How are you thinking about,
• 15:54
  - you know, technology and change moving forward?
• 15:57
  - You know, as a CIO, our role is
• 15:59
  - to really be thinking about the future, seeing
• 16:02
  - where health care is going and and being
• 16:04
  - predictive and then addressing it before the need
• 16:06
  - arises. And I remember in 2019,
• 16:09
  - I was I was really focusing on bringing
• 16:12
  - in virtual care to the organization. And back
• 16:14
  - in in that time frame, there wasn't a
• 16:15
  - lot of interest in virtual care. And then,
• 16:17
  - of course, in 2020, we had the the
• 16:20
  - the issue with COVID and needed virtual care
• 16:22
  - immediately. So those that's just an example of
• 16:24
  - how can we
• 16:26
  - be very predictive and see where health care
• 16:28
  - is going and then address it before before
• 16:30
  - it needs to be addressed. You know, we're
• 16:32
  - building a new hospital right now, and so
• 16:35
  - I've been challenging,
• 16:36
  - my team and those around this project is
• 16:39
  - to think about what does health care look
• 16:41
  - like in five years? What does it look
• 16:42
  - like in ten years? And that's been sort
• 16:45
  - of a hard scenario to think through.
• 16:48
  - But some of the things that
• 16:49
  - I've been focusing on is, you know, how
• 16:52
  - will health care be disrupted
• 16:54
  - in that time frame, and what do we
• 16:55
  - need to be thinking about? I know that
• 16:57
  - we're gonna need to be more intelligent. We're
• 16:59
  - gonna have to have intelligence throughout our our
• 17:01
  - the walls of our facilities so that we're
• 17:03
  - predictive.
• 17:05
  - We're gonna need to be more personalized. We're
• 17:07
  - going to not only care for patients,
• 17:10
  - in this you know, we can't care for
• 17:12
  - patients in the same way with the same
• 17:13
  - diagnosis. We need to base
• 17:15
  - the therapies on their genomics,
• 17:18
  - on, you know, their two you know, their
• 17:20
  - type of disease
• 17:21
  - and and really personalize that and and with
• 17:24
  - better outcomes.
• 17:26
  - I do think that we need to have
• 17:27
  - this, you know, concierge care navigation ability that
• 17:31
  - we don't have today. When a patient has
• 17:33
  - a new diagnosis,
• 17:34
  - they really have to, you know, deal with
• 17:36
  - that on their own often. And so how
• 17:38
  - do we create a team around them that
• 17:40
  - can lead them through that process and answer
• 17:43
  - their questions
• 17:44
  - real time and just be a friend,
• 17:47
  - and, you know, enjoy it as they're going
• 17:49
  - through a very difficult situation?
• 17:51
  - And I think the biggest is how do
• 17:53
  - we create equal access to care? I mean,
• 17:55
  - there's so much inequity with health care along
• 17:57
  - on
• 17:58
  - all levels.
• 18:00
  - Even, you know, a a typical patient does
• 18:03
  - not know how to navigate the care system.
• 18:06
  - I, as someone in health care, do know
• 18:08
  - how to navigate, and so that's an there's
• 18:10
  - an inequity there of that. I can call
• 18:12
  - someone if I need something, and a typical
• 18:14
  - patient cannot. So how do we create a
• 18:17
  - more equal,
• 18:19
  - better,
• 18:20
  - care scenario for our patients and remove barriers?
• 18:23
  - And, you know, the last is how do
• 18:25
  - we deal with all the friction that's in
• 18:27
  - health care? A lot of it is dealing
• 18:28
  - with the payer systems,
• 18:31
  - reimbursement.
• 18:32
  - We just create so much friction. How do
• 18:34
  - we remove all that and make ourselves
• 18:38
  - as easy to navigate
• 18:40
  - as retail? Retail's figured this out on many
• 18:43
  - fronts. We need to do that in health
• 18:45
  - care as well.
• 18:46
  - That makes a ton of sense. Deb, thank
• 18:48
  - you so much for joining us on the
• 18:49
  - podcast today. This has been such an inspiring
• 18:52
  - conversation. Really cool to hear about all the
• 18:54
  - different things you're doing at El Camino Health
• 18:56
  - and,
• 18:57
  - ways that you are seeking value, finding it,
• 19:00
  - and really then
• 19:01
  - providing across the board from your teams and
• 19:03
  - patients alike.
• 19:05
  - And I'm excited to have you as well
• 19:06
  - at the health IT and revenue cycle conference
• 19:09
  - coming up here in September. I know you'll
• 19:11
  - be speaking and, you know, truly digging into
• 19:13
  - some of the bigger themes that we talked
• 19:15
  - about today. And so it'll be great to
• 19:16
  - see you in person and and catch up
• 19:18
  - then.
• 19:19
  - I'm excited about it as well. I love
• 19:21
  - to be part of those types of events
• 19:23
  - because the networking is so fantastic,
• 19:25
  - getting to talk with other health care leaders.
• 19:28
  - So definitely excited about it.
• 19:30
  - Oh, absolutely. And we hope many, many, many
• 19:32
  - of our listeners are able to come join
• 19:34
  - us and really truly see what the Becker's
• 19:36
  - health IT and revenue cycle event is all
• 19:38
  - about. Great. Thank you.