Latest / Half the Picture / #3 - JASON REITMAN

Transcript

#3 - JASON REITMAN · Half the Picture

• 0:00
  Hello, welcome back to Half the Pitch Podcast. My name is Billy Barnell and I'm beyond
• 0:05
  thrilled to be joined today by Mr. Jason Reitman. How you doing, Jason? Welcome to the show.
• 0:10
  I'm doing great. It's real to be here.
• 0:12
  Great. So if I thought we'd start by going back if the week out for the
• 0:17
  midst of time, back to your first film. Thank you for smoking because that film's
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  going to be 20 years old next year. You know, it's as good as place to start.
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  Yeah, that's a lot. You got to level me with that right from the get-go.
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  I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Just bear with me. Bear with me. Will it?
• 0:35
  It'll be okay. It'll be okay, promise. So yeah, I mean, going back to your first film. I mean,
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  you were, you know, when I was rewatching it and researching it, I was amazed to discover how,
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  I guess how young you were when you made it. You were 27. You were younger than me. And as I was
• 0:51
  watching it again, the, what came off to me the most revisiting it is just the style,
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  how exuberant that film is. It's so, I guess it's feel so youthful. It's such an exuberant
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  film as the style is so kinetic and visual and there's free frames and there's a, there's
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  a sort of rash person narrator and split screen and stop moot, stop footage, montages and all
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  this stuff. Yeah. It felt like you were sort of like, you know, wanting to shove everything
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  you loved about movies into a movie. And did you feel exuberant when you were making it, when
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  you were sort of feeling like, did you want to, did you feel like you wanted to sort of just
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  kind of shove everything you want you loved about movies and making movies into a movie,
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  you like stylistically, I mean, does that, does that how it felt at the time or is that
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  like in retrospect how you feel about the film? I am as guilty as so many first time directors
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  of wanting to do everything in one film. And when I look back and thank you for smoking,
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  that's exactly what I see. I see someone who is so excited to be making a movie and wants to try
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  everything. And you can see how many directors that I admire in that one film because there's a
• 1:54
  lot of people I'm trying to emulate. Yeah. I really feel a lot of that sort of Scorsese-esque sort
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  of energy and that sort of that rush of just, you know, playing with all those different formats
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  and montages and techniques and things like that. I mean, is that an exuberance that you still
• 2:10
  feel when you're making movies? Because you know, having revisited your back catalog recently,
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  it does feel that way. It does feel like, yeah, there is still that thrill of making a film
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  making in there throughout, there's a thread throughout all of them. I mean, I love the actual
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  act of making movies. I love being on set. I love my crew. I love figuring out problems on set. I
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  love old school solutions to new problems. And when you can solve something with something
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  mechanical, almost like a magic trick, that's my favorite thing on earth. I think over the course
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  of my career, what I've learned more and more is to really live in the moment as cheesy as it sounds
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  and enjoy the actual practice of getting up in the morning and talking to my crew and talking
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  about what we're going to try to do today and coming up with solutions in real time.
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  And that's what I hear sort of filmmaking is about every day. It's problem solving. I mean,
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  that's interesting what you say about how kind of living in the moment and letting, I guess,
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  the moment breathe on film because when I was watching the film, I was thinking about your
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  approach of actors because the cast of Thank You For Smoking is just absolutely phenomenal. I
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  forgot on just how many great names, young and old, the veterans that are in there, like
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  Jake and Simmons. I know you've worked with loads of times and Robert DuVall and all these guys
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  who you got for your first movie. I mean, that was sort of what I wanted to ask
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  that next was like, what was it like being like is your first movie and you're directing,
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  you know, people like Robert DuVall and that's like, you know, you have to be the dad
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  of the father of the director of the like of that crew and that cast. Well, you know, what was that like?
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  Well, I definitely wasn't. I was a child. So, and I felt that. I felt that when I was directing
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  all those people you're talking about that even though I grew up around actors and I grew up on
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  sets, it's a whole other thing when, you know, you've got to wake up and look, I've been making
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  short films and making commercials, but it's a whole other thing to show up on set and Bill
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  Macy's there. Robert DuVall is there or Sam Elliott is there. I remember actually specifically
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  waking up the first morning I had to direct Robert DuVall and thinking, what the fuck do I have to
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  say? Robert DuVall, right? And, and then I watched a take of him and I had an idea and I shared it
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  with him and that was it. And I was like, oh, that's right. It, we talk a lot about directing being
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  a creative job and that's true. You do have to create a lot of ideas, but so much of
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  directing is reaction. It's reflection. It's watching something and asking yourself, all right,
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  why doesn't this feel real? Why doesn't this feel right? And where does your brain go at that point?
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  And, and too often we're thinking, is this dramatic enough or is this funny enough? And,
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  and really what we should be asking ourselves is, do I believe this? And if, if not, what is it
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  about this shot? And is it because of the way the character enters is it the way the first
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  thing they say is that one character's reaction to another, which looks good on the page, but isn't
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  the way a person really would? And the way I've hopefully grown as a director is in that moment,
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  instead of holding strictly to my script because it is the thing that I wrote down at one point,
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  I'm able on that moment to go, okay, obviously this doesn't feel real. How do I,
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  how do I encourage the actor to take a completely new tact and, and, and be comfortable
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  with wherever that takes the scene? Hmm, that's interesting because, um, because you've,
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  in the scripts for your films, are so touching on that, your scripts for your films are so,
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  so many of them are so iconic and they're so renowned for being full of, I mean, obviously,
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  incredibly powerful dialogue, but the characters are often so, they're so vividly realized,
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  and when I was watching, particularly your films of Davela Cody, who you've worked with three times,
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  on, you know, you've got three of those scripts, I was wondering on things like Juno or
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  Holly, or you know, something like thank you for smoking, like, do you, do you improv, improv?
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  As much of the actors, do you allow for improv, or is it a fairly controlled like, okay, this is
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  the script, we're going to follow it to the letter, that, this is how we're going to do it, is that,
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  you know, well, what kind of way do you work, or didn't that regard? It's so interesting that,
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  you asked that question because I think improv is one of these loaded words that can mean so
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  many different things. I think one person, when they hear improv, they imagine that kind of
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  Judd Aptow version where it's like, okay, just go, like, just see where the scene takes you,
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  if a line of dialogue goes left, just go left for 20 miles and see, and he comes up brilliant
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  things that way, and he has obviously a lot of confidence in ability to, his ability to keep
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  all these different things going. I think the way that I like him, problem on my set is, I think,
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  I know what a scene is supposed to be about, I know where it's supposed to go, start to finish,
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  and I obviously love when an actor knows that too. And the kind of improvisation that I'm
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  open to, and I really thrive on, is when an actor understands the idea of a line of dialogue,
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  and exactly what it's supposed to do, how it's supposed to hit the target at what speed, what
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  trajectory, and has a much better way of doing that. And certain people, like a guy like Patton
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  Oswald, as soon as he knows what the target is, he has 20 different ways of hitting it. And then I
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  really trust that actor's ability to find a much more interesting or much more honest way to hit the
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  target. But as long as improvisation doesn't mean, okay, the scene has a completely new destination,
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  or like a completely new target. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so the structure,
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  the bones of the scene are there, but you allow space to rip and be spontaneous as well.
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  It sounds like you're looking for spontaneity as much as you are. You've got the idea of the scene
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  already set instead. Yeah, and one of my favorite versions of improvisation, frankly, is when
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  if a line of dialogue reveals too much of what a character is feeling, I love a piece of improv
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  that gets the same idea across, but hides the feelings of the character more. That turns the
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  character into a better liar. Well, that's something about, I guess, sort of talking about, I guess,
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  what makes films unique in terms of characters is that, like, you know, because in real life,
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  obviously, you know, you're talking to whoever, you know, you can't obviously appear inside
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  their head, like you can in, in no medium, like a book or, you know, also be like, you know,
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  where you can actually see and see exactly, and you know exactly at any point what a character's
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  thinking. You can do that in film, but I think the great power of sort of filming characters on
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  films is the fact that they, you know, they themselves really well to not being explained,
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  because like in real life, you can't appear into someone's head. You know, you're looking at them,
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  it's like, you know, because life is, you know, film is visual, and so, you know, is that makes
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  sense? I guess, like, you know, what you're describing about, like, making the character a better liar,
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  liars work well on programming, and in MIGMA's, I guess, characters that are in MIGMA's work very
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  powerfully unfilled, as opposed to, like, other mediums. Well, yeah, right, because, look,
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  almost every film is a mystery of some kind, right? And it doesn't have to be a crime thriller in
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  which you have to figure out who did it. There's always a mystery of where's this movie going to go?
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  Where's the story going? Why is the filmmaker telling me this story? And what are these actors? What
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  are these characters actually feel? And we thrive on our ability to kind of slowly solve that
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  equation over the course of the movie. And I think some of the greatest aha moments of
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  watching a movie is when you suddenly understand the character, perhaps even better than they understand
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  themselves. And it's a real joy to that. Like, I think there is a kind of like, I see dead people,
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  kind of like, you know, moment of just understanding what somebody wants and what they really mean when
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  they say something. And I don't know, I find those moments kind of gorgeous.
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  Well, there are, I mean, there are so many of those in your films. I mean, I think of, like,
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  just off my head, like, I mean, I think of a young adult or a film like that. I mean,
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  a young adult, which, incidentally, is my favorite of your films. I really love that film and
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  rewatching it for this, you know, by pleasure. Now, rewatching it for this interview was such a
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  great experience. And like, and the fact that what I think is exactly what you're talking about
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  there is so concretized in Shelley's parents' character of Mavis. And things like, you know,
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  there's so many moments in that film where she, you know, she's doing all the wrong things,
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  she's saying all the wrong things and you're watching and you're thinking like, why, you know,
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  of course, you know, if you could put that empathy, that empathetic sort of relationship between
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  the viewer and the film is, you know, if I was in that position, I would not do that. And why are
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  you doing that? And then at the end where, you know, I guess, spoiler alert, if you haven't seen
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  young adult, but, you know, that, the final 10 minutes, where she's talking to a panel's world
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  sister. And then, and she, and she has learned something from that film, but she ignores it.
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  She does the easy thing. And she ignores it, which is actually, I found so funny. This is what's
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  about the, it's heartbreaking, but it's also so funny and truthful about that she has gone back
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  to try and sort of salvage, you know, the last great time of her life. And then she finds that
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  she, that she can't in his point, that chalice is poison. And then she decides, I'm, you know,
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  I'm out of here. And then what she's going back to is not as hardly better than what she thinks
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  she's leaving. So, you know, and I just found that so funny. I mean, I think Diablo is a brilliant
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  writer on all fronts, but particularly at self deceiving characters. And, you know, one of her greatest
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  gifts is building these broken mirrors that reflect the ugliest parts of our personality and
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  the joy of reading her work and the joy of hopefully watching one of her movies is seeing
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  yourself in it, recognizing parts of the characters that you're embarrassed to look at and see
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  yourself. And, you know, are you willing as an audience member to let go of your shame for a moment
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  and see these qualities that are really hard to look at sometimes in the same way that, you know,
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  I think, you know, a flea bag or like baby reindeer, you know, I think had, you know, do do so
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  brilliantly. But Diablo is a way, every time I read one of her scripts, I see myself in these
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  characters. And I see perhaps the things that I want to hide the most. And then it instinctively,
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  I want to like pull the covers off them and put them on screen.
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  And that is a threat. I think that goes through so many of the films not just thorns of Diablo.
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  I mean, like up in the air, Ryan Bingham, George Clooney in that film is such a similar case in
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  terms of, you know, here's a spiky character who the acceptable handsome face of something that's
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  very young pleasant and is ultimately left kind of in a similar position, I guess, to Mavis in
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  young adult way. You know, he is, he's at a cross-work rose and he's learned something, but he's
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  learned something, learned something by losing, I guess, an illusion of a love that you thought you
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  had. And it's, and you're, you know, you're peeling back, you're unwrapping those,
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  there's a story teller, you're, you're unwrapping those layers of the union of the character,
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  and then putting them in a position which is not, I guess,
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  conventional in terms of like a Hollywood movie or a mainstream movie, well, you know, you expect
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  everything to be wrapped up in a bow. And the great thing about some of your films is that they're not
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  wrapped up in a bow. And then you accept, you expect it as an audience to have to sit up and think
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  a bit and to, you know, sit with it and think, well, what do you think about this, you know,
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  as a video, right? It challenges your expectations, which, yeah.
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  There was a line I heard once about Milo Shorm and that I really loved that. I think he said it
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  himself because I, I villainized Mozart and I heroized Larry Flynn. And I, I always like, like,
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  what a goal, you know, to see those two different human beings in such different lines.
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  And I love stories in which a main character right from the get goes, get go presents you an ethos
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  that seems unthinkable, but does such a good job presenting it that as an audience member,
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  you can't help but be like, okay, go on. And that's why I, I, the first time I read the book,
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  thank you for smoking, I just fell in love with Nick Naylor, this guy who was presenting tobacco
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  lobbying, not only is just a way to pay the bills, but actually that there was an ethos to it,
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  and that everyone deserved a good defense, and that people deserve personal autonomy. And,
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  and then Juno, the same thing, you know, Geablo is presenting arguments about when we grow up,
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  can you grow up at 16 or do you never have to grow up, which I think that movie really was about.
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  First time I read up in the air of the book, this guy who fired people for a living, who's,
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  you know, presented an argument that life would be better lived alone. That's the truth of
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  the situation and that we've all bought in on this lie that we were supposed to fall into kind of
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  harmonious partnerships that, you know, weren't as harmonious as we thought. And then, of course,
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  young adult, a woman who whose goal in life is to break up a marriage and to time travel to the
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  most costic moment of a childhood. There's a real magic trick in trying to get people to
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  fall alongside these flawed characters, and it makes me love them more than traditional heroes.
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  Oh yeah, it means because they're just more interesting and they're more real. I mean,
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  you mentioned Juno there. I mean, I guess in terms of looking at your films in chronological order,
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  I mean, you know, we've touched on, we've jumped around and then I've touched on, thank you for
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  smoking. But Juno, of course, was your second film, and I guess in many ways, we're one of your
• 15:38
  breakthrough films. And that film reached a massive audience and people absolutely took to their
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  hearts, you know, notably obviously people like Roger Reaver were, you know, ecstatic about it.
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  And I mean, I remember the first time where I was my first watch that film, which is, you know,
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  how sort of, I guess, how much an impact it had. And I guess as a film, it really did capture a
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  spirit of the time. That's that late 2000s American indie sensibility. It seems to me looking
• 16:02
  back at it. And it really crystallized that. I guess there were a couple of other films around that
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  time, like, you know, a little bit sunshine and, and the, you know, those kinds of films,
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  and even 500 days of summer, which I know your, your DP Eric still there as well. But I guess
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  looking back at it now after 16 years hence, sorry again, what, what's your relationship now with
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  that film? I mean, I remember the moment that script came into my life. I remember literally
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  standing in my doorway having been just handed this script and starting to read it there,
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  having just barely shut the door and getting pretty deep into the script and realizing I was just
• 16:47
  still standing at my front door reading it. And I was just intoxicated about it. I'd never read
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  anything like it. I thought the dialogue was wholly original. And it had this thing that Diablo
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  does brilliantly, but for some reason isn't as well known for. She's real known for her dialogue,
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  but people never point to the fact that she's constantly surprising you with where her stories go.
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  You character surprise you, her plot twist surprise you. And the movie never ends up being about
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  the thing you think it's going to be about. Yeah, I mean, the, I mean, what's funny about that movie is
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  I, I went out for the job and I didn't get it. They hired somebody else. And I was writing up
• 17:30
  in the air at the time. I was really disappointed because I wasn't even actually considered. They
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  met a lot of directors and they wouldn't even meet with me. And then they parted ways with that
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  director who is now one of my best friends. And, and they, and they went back on on the lookout.
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  At that point, thank you for smoking had come out and was a relative hit. And, and I got a meeting.
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  And I went up, you know, at that time against four other directors and that time I got the job.
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  And it's really interesting because Juno is so responsible for my entire career and my success.
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  It changed my life. None of us expected it to become the hit that it was. None of us expected it to
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  reach as many people as it did. And it really, it started my career. It started a Diablo's career,
• 18:22
  Elliott Pages career. It transformed, I think, Michael Sarah's career, Jason Bateman's career.
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  I think Kimia Dawson coming out for the multi-peaches. It changed her life. It, it did so much. And
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  none of us expected. We just thought we were making this little movie of play film festivals and
• 18:36
  that would be it. So one, look, you never know when it's going to happen. But two,
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  you never know if that job you just got turned down for is actually the job that's going to come
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  around and then change your life. Well, I mean, what's interesting because we've
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  visited the film. Like I said, it sort of crystallizes that spirit of the time. It captures the time
• 18:58
  very well. But also it feels timeless in the sense that like, because I know some of the things
• 19:03
  that I know you guys were asked about when the movie came out was, you know, the politics of the
• 19:07
  subject matter. Because it isn't, you know, it is a subject matter that in different hands could
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  have been spun very differently and gone in a much sort of more different, more, I guess,
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  melodramatic, more politicized direction. Because of course, team pregnancy and pregnancy in general
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  is is still such a, you know, a sensitive, a lot of people issue and a hot, and I sort of,
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  I get, I guess, a red button top. Yeah. But because you guys, and I guess this goes back all
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  about to Diablo's original screenplay, but you as a director as well, you guys so sort of neatly
• 19:33
  sidestepped so much of what would what you would think would be conventional about that story.
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  In terms of where you think it would go. In terms of you think it would explore, I guess,
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  that sort of the teen melodrama of it more, or, you know, all I'm really sort of dive head
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  persons out of the political aspect. And the fact that you guys so sort of neatly sidestepped that
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  and we're like, no, no, we're telling this, you know, we have these characters that, you know,
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  are sort of realized. And we want it, we have a, you know, it's a different take on that story
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  and it still feels unexpected. I was rewatching it. I was thinking like, I did not, you know, in
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  another hand, this could be so much more conventional. But because you, you did, you started not to go
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  in that direction. In some ways, it almost contributes to its timelessness, you know, the fact that it
• 20:10
  still holds up, you know, it feels like a product of its time, but still feels timeless. Right.
• 20:13
  It's also down to how good the film is. But yeah, my father, my father used to say, don't confuse
• 20:21
  your plot for your location. To make a movie about adoption versus abortion is to make a movie
• 20:29
  about your location. The location in the movie is she's pregnant. What is she going to do?
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  But that's not what the movie is about. The movie is about people struggling with what is the
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  moment you grow up? How do you define becoming an adult? When should you become an adult? How do we
• 20:46
  preserve innocence? Should we preserve innocence? And you have four characters at the center of it
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  played by Elliot, Michael, Jen Garner and Bateman who all have different perspectives on what it
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  means to grow up. And look, there's a moment when you're 16 years old and you have no idea what
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  it means to grow up. And you think of your innocence as something casual that whether you dispose of
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  it or not, you don't really care. And there's adults who, look, there's 30-year-old men who are
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  terrified of growing up. And then there's women who define adulthood about whether or not they become
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  mothers or not, whether they become married or not, whether they go into the workforce or not.
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  And Diablo was exploring all of that. And I think if, when I look at my movies, I'm hopefully
• 21:29
  never getting too bogged down in my location. Thank you for smoking. It's not about cigarettes.
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  It could have taken place in the world of guns. Alcohol is a million issues. Let's move up personal
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  choices. It's a movie about autonomy. You know, it's about how do you be a parent? Up in
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  there is certainly not about firing people. It's not about collecting air miles. Those are just
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  locations. And so that's one thing I talked to young screenwriters all the time about is
• 21:56
  are you actually just making a movie about your location? Or are you actually telling a story about
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  people who happen to be in that location? That's so interesting. And I guess referring back to
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  what you said earlier about how when we were specifically Diablo is so good at sort of
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  surprising you with the directions which her screenplays go and by consequence, your films go.
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  I was thinking about Tully and when I rewatched it, which is another one of my
• 22:23
  of your films. I love that film very much. And the direction, of course, I mean, I guess it's
• 22:27
  always that spot a more of it and explicit kind of daring. In the fact that the movie,
• 22:33
  I guess spoiler alert, if you haven't seen Tully, the movie goes in a direction. It feels like
• 22:37
  it's chucking along in a certain direction and then it flips on its head. But in a way that feels
• 22:42
  genuinely quietly daring and even though I had already seen it again, I had already seen it.
• 22:49
  I mean, I was still surprised by it. And that movie, I mean, just I guess focusing in on that
• 22:55
  movie specifically for a moment, that movie feels like such a true honest portrait of motherhood.
• 23:00
  And it still feels like that to me. And I guess, of course, a lot of that was coming from Diablo
• 23:04
  and the fact that she's a mother of free and she was writing a screenplay and a lot of that
• 23:08
  bled into the story. But of course, I know, you know, you're a parent and Charlize,
• 23:12
  is it who co-produced the films a parent? I mean, did you guys sort of your life experiences
• 23:17
  sort of bleed into the making of the film as well when you were doing it? Certainly. You know,
• 23:21
  it's interesting. When I think about, I think about Tully, I'll leave the good bye back to the future
• 23:25
  and I'll tell you why. I heard Bob Gell once say that the initial idea that led to back to the
• 23:33
  future was if he had happened to go to high school with his own father, would they be friends.
• 23:40
  And that was it. That's the kernel of the idea. And then it was time travel or de lorians that
• 23:45
  had to do with would my father and I be friends if we met in high school. And that's what he was
• 23:50
  trying to solve. That's the story he was trying to tell. And at that point, you know, he comes up
• 23:53
  with all the other stuff. Diablo is telling a story about postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis
• 23:59
  and most importantly, how do you save yourself? Could you in fact invent somebody to save yourself
• 24:08
  from within? And from there, we get the story of this family and the night nurse that comes in
• 24:17
  and the relationship that they form and all the ways that the night nurse attempts to save this
• 24:23
  family. This married pop and story. And the big reveal at the end isn't that, you know,
• 24:31
  oh, this one's psychotic. The big reveal at the end is she found a way to save herself from
• 24:37
  what's in. And that turn, I found extraordinary. For me, that's what makes Diablo Cody like an
• 24:46
  actual genius. And it made me desperate to direct that movie. I remember hearing you describe
• 24:50
  a similar experience when you're ready to get an adult where you get to the final confrontation
• 24:53
  scene with Shelley some, you know, Patrick Wilson and all the guys at the the the baby shower.
• 24:58
  And it's just and it's a complete right of an event. Yeah. And I'm really sorry that you read
• 25:04
  that you're like, I that's that's the mood. I need to make that that movie that I need to do.
• 25:08
  I mean, I'm 100% in, which is exactly why we watching that. It's like this is so, this is so wrong,
• 25:15
  but so funny at the same time. And also heartbreaking, of course, you know, with that.
• 25:20
  Well, I feel like you always see that right in movies. You can look at a movie and
• 25:24
  and always identify the one scene. We're like, oh, that's why the director wanted to make that
• 25:27
  movie. They just really wanted to do that scene. Everything else is great and all, but like they
• 25:31
  really wanted to do that one scene. Absolutely. Yeah. And a young adult, if I were there, like at the
• 25:36
  least a couple of those, I was that one, there's the, you know, that final scene, like we're
• 25:39
  again, a patent Oswald sister, which is your good here. That is your good here, which is so, but
• 25:45
  it's so brutal, but so funny is that. Yeah. That line was actually written by Leanne
• 25:50
  Halton, the producer on the movie. We were talking about that moment and what it meant. And she
• 25:54
  just said out of nowhere, you're good here. I was like, oh, that's it. That's the line.
• 26:01
  Fantastic. I mean, so I guess it's so touching back on something like, I'll not up in the
• 26:05
  air for a moment, because that's a good one. And it actually applies to a lot of your films,
• 26:09
  because one thing that you, that you're known for as a filmmaker is that you like to adapt
• 26:14
  models, you know, a lot of several of your films, like up in the air, thank you for smoking,
• 26:17
  and then women and children and labor day. These are always stand on the shoulders of giants.
• 26:23
  But I was going to say, like, what is it about that process that you enjoy? Because do you find
• 26:27
  like having a good launching pad of like it? You've got a book, which is, I guess, a robust
• 26:32
  foundation for a story. And you can see it in your head when you read it. Okay. I can see the film
• 26:36
  of this in my head. Is that part of the reason why you enjoy adaptation and return to it a lot?
• 26:41
  You know, so much. Do you like it as a launching pad? So there has been your own creativity
• 26:46
  as a director? Yeah. I find that just like every other person walking this
• 26:51
  planet days, there's just things I'm chewing on that are echoing through my brain that I
• 26:56
  can't solve. And we all have those two or three things that we're all working on constantly in
• 27:01
  our brains. And we're trying to figure out about our own existence, about our own
• 27:07
  game, about our own regrets, as you try to figure out the world either whether it's inside or
• 27:13
  outside. And then you find something that where someone is articulated, it's well better than you
• 27:19
  have, way better than you have. And that's what happens. I find a book like thank you for smoking
• 27:24
  that's talking about personal choice. And I grew up in the 1990s where I felt like everyone was
• 27:30
  telling me what to think and what to do or like up in the air where this guy had kind of devoted
• 27:38
  his life to the accumulation of meaningless things and was questioning what the purpose of all
• 27:43
  was anyway. Like young adult that, you know, mirrored all the things I did not like about myself.
• 27:51
  And I didn't really, I didn't know what shelf to put them all on. And am I just a horrible human
• 27:57
  being or am I guy who just hasn't figured it out yet? And then it becomes this kind of co-writing
• 28:06
  process where I'm trying to do something autobiographical. Even the Saturday Night Live movie that I
• 28:13
  just finished, I feel like I'm writing an autobiography while authentically telling the story
• 28:21
  of the dozens of people who created the first episode of SNL. It's interesting that you mentioned
• 28:26
  SNL 1975 because I wanted to ask about that in terms of in relation to men, women and children
• 28:31
  actually because watching that film I was I was actually kind of shocked by how how many amazing
• 28:36
  future stars you got from that film. I mean at the time, who at the time I guess we're really just
• 28:40
  starting out, they're proving it's like Ansel Elgore, you know, Caitlin Deva. I mean,
• 28:45
  Jim, if you shall make, who had never done a film before is in in your movie and is now obviously
• 28:50
  the biggest, you know, young stars of the day. And I guess when it comes to a film like
• 28:55
  men, women and children all SNL 1975, which I know you've cast a lot of great young actors,
• 28:59
  like Rachel Senna, who's fantastic and Cooper Hoffman, who's brilliant. Like do you like keeping
• 29:04
  it to the ground when it comes to finding like new and exciting upcoming actors and talent
• 29:09
  is also in that you sort of make a concerted effort to do? I mean certainly, but more than anything,
• 29:16
  I work with brilliant casting directors. And you know, where there is, you know, the
• 29:22
  Mindy Marin, who I worked through in my first film, Susan Smith and then I've done a bunch of
• 29:27
  movies now with John Papsidera, who's been extraordinary revealing new talent to me and constantly
• 29:34
  saying, hey, you've got to see this new person. And it's a joy. It's obviously it's a joy
• 29:39
  where because look, there's one side of directing, which where look, it's a thrill to work with someone
• 29:45
  that you're already fan of a dozen of their movies. And you know a lot of their moves. And you're
• 29:51
  excited to see them use their moves with, you know, your film, your dialogue. But it's a whole other
• 29:57
  thing to be completely surprised to watch someone you know nothing about who you're still
• 30:05
  watching them figure out the machinery internally and take all these moves that they use in their
• 30:13
  real life and applying them to screen for the first time. And it creates a really interesting
• 30:18
  conversation about who they are, who they want to be as actors, how they want to be portrayed.
• 30:27
  Do they have a process? What is the process? Are they trying different, you know,
• 30:31
  Ansel and Timothy were both figuring out what kind of process they wanted to have as actors,
• 30:37
  as we were working on men, women, and children. And I saw them try different things throughout it.
• 30:41
  And there's a sense of play to them because they haven't been scared out of certain angles. They
• 30:47
  haven't been scared out of trying things that haven't been let down by other films or filmmakers.
• 30:51
  So there's a certain fearlessness because they're just so thrilled to be on the screen.
• 30:55
  It's so interesting what you said there because I think that not only applies to the young
• 30:58
  actors that you work with and you're an actor in general, but so many of the, you know,
• 31:02
  the, I guess the veteran actors and the old actors that you work with, I mean particularly in that film,
• 31:06
  I mean Adam Sandler, who delivers such an interesting performance in that film, especially if you
• 31:11
  look at the context of his career at that time, like he had done, you know, I guess funny people by
• 31:16
  that point. And obviously, of course, Punishment Love, which actually, I mean, out of shock here,
• 31:19
  I have a framed Punishment Love poster that I'm a huge fan of that film.
• 31:21
  It's one of the best. It's just literally one of the best movies of all time.
• 31:24
  It's fantastic. It's fabulous, isn't it? And he is so, you know, such a brilliant study of just
• 31:30
  restraint and fear in that film. And when I was watching when we were in the children, I did
• 31:35
  think, you know, I was thinking back to things like Barry Egan, Punishment Love, and how,
• 31:38
  and that scene near the end of his wife where he's so quiet in that film. And I guess,
• 31:44
  and normally, you know, you don't, we don't think of him as a quiet performer or a quiet actor,
• 31:47
  you know, even in the more dramatic stuff like Uncle Jim's that he would do later. It is a,
• 31:51
  you know, you can, you can go big, but he can also go small. And I guess when you were directing
• 31:55
  him in that film, were you thinking about, we sort of, did you have sort of conscious
• 31:59
  references in your mind, like, okay, maybe now I've seen, you know, you'd seen Punishment Love,
• 32:02
  and maybe that was sort of a reference for you or did you just need you and Adam sort of work on
• 32:06
  it just completely organically, like, okay, no reference point. Let's just find the character.
• 32:11
  Yeah, so interesting about Adam is he's so well studied and people don't really talk about that.
• 32:22
  I'm not sure how aware people are of that. I've never had an actor read the source material
• 32:30
  as much as Adam Sandler read the book, Men, Women and Children, and would talk to me about
• 32:34
  details of the book and details of the character and whether we were going to try things that
• 32:37
  were in the book that were not in the script. Adam talked to me early on about the script about
• 32:43
  the fact that he had one child that should his character have two children, should he have a dog,
• 32:47
  should he have other elements of a family that can react off each other. Adam would come daily
• 32:52
  having read not only the scene that we were going to shoot that day, but the pages of the book
• 32:58
  that we were going to shoot that day and was a reason why I didn't include this or that.
• 33:02
  He was about to go do that western and he was also simultaneously watching every western
• 33:08
  that had ever been made. I don't think people assume this about Adam. I think the assumption is that
• 33:14
  he's brilliantly funny, spontaneous and obviously kind, and that he just kind of reacts in the
• 33:21
  moment and that he's funny. What people don't see is the guy who works and studies and thinks and
• 33:30
  kills himself to get it right. So by the time I was having my first conversations and he had thought
• 33:34
  a lot about the character and it's not like, and it's not like this painful three hour conversation
• 33:43
  about what's the hidden meaning of this character. He's just thinking about what would make
• 33:50
  the movie the best, what would make the character the best, what would make the story the best,
• 33:53
  and he's effortlessly loving to everyone around him. He's a joy.
• 33:58
  I always get that impression from his stand-up or from people he talk about working with
• 34:02
  him or his films. He seems like a generally good, garious chap. I get a more trivial question
• 34:08
  that's not clear to say that sound or that film specifically, but I guess going back to
• 34:11
  the films of Diablo and forgive the triviality of this question. But please, are you a Diablo
• 34:18
  Big Makers Mark fans? Because in every script that she writes, and there's always something,
• 34:24
  they wear a character like Shally's in, you know, a joke about ordering a Makers Mark straight up,
• 34:30
  you know, and it's just, and every time I'm going back watching, I was like, I really want to
• 34:35
  sample a Makers Mark now. I was like, is that his bourbon, your guy's sort of tiffle of choice,
• 34:39
  Makers Mark, is that your favorite? I do love bourbon, but that is absolutely a Diablo trademark.
• 34:45
  And I've never actually asked her about why. I just know that she loves it, and it shows up in
• 34:49
  the scripts, and I honor it. So you're telling me that when you were standing in your kitchen
• 34:53
  reading the jean, you got to paste 12, and you're, you know, you're like, oh, how come I'll
• 34:57
  circle that? I'll circle, you know, which is so funny. I came to all of that stuff so late in
• 35:02
  life. I tried pot the first time at 30. I started drinking, you know, for the first time really in my
• 35:07
  30s, and I just came late to everything. I was, I was a genuine AV club nerd, and didn't go to any
• 35:16
  parties and really never tried anything until much later in life. Oh, better later than I
• 35:20
  guess. I mean, hey, you're preaching to the choir there. So, I guess, you're touching up,
• 35:25
  can I mention them earlier, Eric Steeleberg, who is such a sort of important collaborator of yours
• 35:29
  in a show, all of your films through Juneau. Yeah. I know you guys have known each other for a
• 35:33
  long time going back before you'd work together, I want to say. Like, and your films with him have
• 35:38
  such a specific and sort of tactile look. I mean, I know you guys like to use white lenses,
• 35:43
  like 16 by 9 aspect ratio, and there's a, there's a great, what sense of warmth and light
• 35:49
  to the palette that you guys create. I mean, I guess, classically, I think of sort of the
• 35:52
  autumn or colors of something like you know, or in tully, the scenes with the, you know,
• 35:57
  where Shalee's just is spending time with the sun or her daughter doing the karaoke scene,
• 36:02
  and there's the gold and sunlight coming through the window, or even in something like
• 36:07
  the front runner, which is a very different kind of color palette, as much steelier and
• 36:10
  much more minimal. And same with you in adult, that film feels very sort of minimalistic and
• 36:14
  stripped down and stripped back and cooler, you know, it's, and, and I guess this wants to ask
• 36:19
  like, what is it about Eric that makes it such a special collaboration for you with him and
• 36:24
  what the conversations you guys have when you create the looks of your films?
• 36:28
  Yeah, it's really interesting, you know, when I think about the strength of our relationship,
• 36:33
  and I've now, you know, Eric and I have known each other since we were both 15 years old,
• 36:35
  we had to be dropped off at our first short film that we worked on together. It actually has
• 36:41
  nothing to do with lenses or camera system or film grain or color palette. It has everything to
• 36:48
  do with the strength of our relationship and our bond as storytellers. That's what we talk about.
• 36:55
  That's what we talk about the most. And we try to create a kind of collection of imagery
• 37:01
  that feels true to the story that we're telling. So as we approach a movie, we begin to watch
• 37:06
  other films together. We'll sit here at my house and we'll, we'll just put on movies and we'll
• 37:12
  freeze frame and we'll talk about certain shots and what, what's working, what isn't. And a lot of it
• 37:17
  is, oh, the hair is great there or the production design is great there. A great question is always
• 37:23
  like, do I like how this looks or is the production design just good? And we'll talk about that
• 37:27
  because the lighting can be really clean and it's just the production design is really what's
• 37:30
  giving its look. But we try to come up with some simple truths about how the film is going to look
• 37:39
  and then we try to hold each other to them throughout the process. And you're right, young adult
• 37:47
  had a very cool Scandinavian look almost like our messaging to each other was always like,
• 37:54
  let's make it more Swedish. And then on front runner, you know, and this new
• 38:01
  Saturday night film, it's really Michael Richie. It's really the candidate. And these movies from
• 38:08
  the early 70s that felt type of real, you feel the grain, you can almost feel the camera on
• 38:16
  someone's shoulder. There's a life like this to it that makes it that. It never feels smooth,
• 38:24
  it never feels like it's on tracks. All we're always talking about is how does the lens reflect what's
• 38:29
  happening in the story. And it's funny because, you know, in between Frontner and SNL, we did a Ghostbusters
• 38:35
  movie that really, you know, was meant to look like an ambulance movie, Eric went off and shot
• 38:40
  a soka in the Star Wars universe in the volume. Eric can do anything. I mean, the man's just like
• 38:47
  genuinely brilliant. He's a pilot. He can like, you know, you know, he's the guy who can screw
• 38:51
  taking a part of toe story. And I think they'll probably take a part in Duke of their warhead and
• 38:54
  put it back together. And I envy his brilliance and I lean on it all the time, but our storytelling
• 39:03
  partnership or bond or brotherhood comes from the love of telling a story first. And then we get
• 39:10
  into all the other shit. Yeah, is that story telling ability that you guys have? I mean, you guys
• 39:16
  obviously have a shorthand. And it was interesting when I was revisiting your films, the trajectory,
• 39:21
  I guess, of the filmmaking. It did feel, and you've made, you know, I believe it's nine films at
• 39:27
  this point. And the confidence, I mean, because you mentioned the frontrunner, the confidence
• 39:31
  that I saw that developed over the course of those films, that you get something, so you get,
• 39:36
  by the time you get something like the frontrunner and Tully, which came out the same year,
• 39:39
  which by the way, that sounds like a hell of a busy, you know, period to be able to do movie.
• 39:43
  It's a great time. Yeah. But the confidence I saw in terms of like the length of your takes,
• 39:49
  you know, certain shots, you know, using tracking shots and sort of more, I guess the filmmaking techniques
• 39:55
  felt continuously more adventurous. Like each film, like, you know, you were sort of, I guess,
• 39:59
  challenging yourself with another sort of technique or like, you know, like in the frontrunner,
• 40:02
  you have, you're using much more zoom lenses and you've got these incredibly choreographed
• 40:06
  tracking shots, like the opening shot with the, you know, the news broadcast and the crowds and
• 40:10
  then, you know, this is the 360 pound of the, a huge admin throwing the, the acts and all that
• 40:15
  stuff. And then, and the choreography about, you know, the human area of see having to work out
• 40:19
  with the crew and the cast. And then going up through to Ghostbusters where you're directing,
• 40:23
  you know, you're, you know, a spectacle blockbuster. You're directing a blockbuster, of course.
• 40:27
  I know it was new ground for you. I mean, did you feel a kind of, that was a culmination of,
• 40:32
  like, you know, did you feel performed film, a growing confidence in your ability?
• 40:36
  Yeah. You know how it other reflects itself is weirdly, I'm going to use the weird metaphor
• 40:42
  of Saiyan. It's like taking Winnebago trips. The first time you take a Winnebago trip and you
• 40:47
  you hop in in the motorhome and you think you need everything. So you just, you stock it full
• 40:54
  with everything you might need while you're camping. And the more you trips you take, you're like,
• 40:59
  I don't need this. I don't need that. We'll just use this. And, uh, and that's how filmmaking is.
• 41:04
  Filmmaking is, I think, first of my first film, you're just shooting so much coverage, because you're
• 41:08
  like, I may need this, I may need to that. I'm going to get me this shot. I'm going to have that
• 41:10
  shot. What if I need this? I didn't get this salvaging. We'll get all these different close-ups,
• 41:13
  like I tell these different inserts. And the more you make movies, the more you realize,
• 41:18
  we're going to use this. I'll do this. I'll have this one backup shot. And then maybe I'll get this
• 41:23
  one insert just in case in a little bit of coverage. But like you, you just get better at knowing what
• 41:27
  you're going to need and how to stay truer to the tonal line you're trying to hit. And as a result,
• 41:34
  you should be able to shoot faster. And you just don't have to put as much in the Winnebago.
• 41:40
  I mean, speaking of Ghostbusters on that subject, I mean, that was, I mean, because of course,
• 41:45
  up to that point, you, I think that's fair to say, that was the biggest movie in terms of scale,
• 41:49
  I guess it was a sheer scale. Not necessarily a personal scale, but I guess technical scale that
• 41:53
  you would attempt it. And you know, you pulled it off and the film came together and it was,
• 41:58
  you know, people really liked that film. And I've heard incredibly emotional responses to that
• 42:03
  film and the sole of it, especially with, you know, Harold Raimus and, you know, the, and the
• 42:08
  continuation, the handing of the baton through to the next generation of the characters. And,
• 42:12
  and I mean, having made, I get, it's successful. We made an emotional lot of us there that
• 42:18
  still felt like one of your films. I mean, do you think that's something now that you, that is
• 42:21
  that sort of form of filmmaking that you'd go back to ever in the future and think you'd rather
• 42:25
  return to the more intimate, smaller independent roots and style that you, I guess up to that point,
• 42:31
  had the making the films in. It's really interesting, right? Like, when I think of
• 42:37
  afterlife, I oddly don't think of it as a spectacle. Because what I think about is this personal
• 42:45
  story I wanted to tell that I obviously had many personal reasons to tell. I think of a family
• 42:51
  finding an abandoned farm and everything they discover there and the personal journey that they're
• 42:58
  on. As they discover the mysteries of their past and try to become a complete family again.
• 43:03
  And what it was like to tell the story of the passing of a baton with my father sitting next
• 43:10
  to me the whole time, that was the experience. I don't know how I could replicate that, whether it
• 43:16
  was in the Marvel Universe or the DC Universe or, you know, any, any universe. I'm sure there's
• 43:23
  another personal story out there that I want to tell that requires a big budget and large sets
• 43:29
  and has, you know, a thousand visual effects shots. It's intimidating. The idea of a movie having
• 43:36
  to make that kind of money back is always scary. But there was never a part of me that said it's
• 43:43
  time to tell a big story. All I knew was it was time to tell this story with my father. And that's
• 43:49
  why I made it. Well, I think that is something that you do capturing your films, the sense of
• 43:54
  emotional truth. And I mean, something that I'm, which isn't, which is so impressive, but also the
• 43:58
  fact that you're, that you also, that you leap to that as a, as a standard, as a filmmaker, but also
• 44:02
  the fact that you, that you challenge yourself as a filmmaker. I mean, in terms of it, because
• 44:07
  look, if you look back at the films that, that you've made, the stories, so many of those films,
• 44:11
  you know, they don't, they don't, they don't clash at all, but like they're so different. Each one
• 44:16
  tends to, you know, it's not like you're, you know, I don't feel you're a filmmaker who's ever
• 44:19
  really repeated himself. And I think of something like Labor Day, I then, you know, followed by
• 44:24
  Memblem and Children, all preceded by adults. And it's like, you know, there's no, you know,
• 44:29
  there's almost no comparisons to be made, but say, but you, but you're a filmmaker who is
• 44:34
  continuously, I feel that seems to have, you know, you've, you've tried to challenge yourself.
• 44:37
  There's a storytelling, you know, you're not sad, it doesn't seem to be that you're satisfied
• 44:40
  of just falling back on, you know, the, the old, sort of, I guess, playing the old riffs,
• 44:44
  playing the hits in terms of, you know, I know this will work. Like something like Labor Day,
• 44:50
  which was such a departure for you in many ways, and certainly, certainly in terms of about
• 44:55
  the filmmaking, I mean, of course, like, you know, because the happy young adult, as we said, you know,
• 44:59
  you know, sort of scrappier, more, more low-fi, you know, in, you know, handled Scandinavian,
• 45:04
  and Labor Day, which is not Scandinavian at all. No, not at all, not at all.
• 45:11
  We're just really attempting to do Terence Malik and failing. I mean, it's, um, it,
• 45:18
  we grow up, you know, that's just it. We grow up, we change, we evolve, and different,
• 45:28
  different questions, not the back of our brains. And so, I find I'm attracted to different
• 45:35
  new stories because I got new questions that are burrowing away, you know, we, we get married,
• 45:42
  we have kids, we get divorced, like, each one of these huge steps in life kind of wipes clear
• 45:51
  some of the questions that we're ailing you before and brings whole new ones. And there's things
• 45:56
  that we've been trying to solve for thousands of years of human development, and we still haven't
• 46:02
  figured out, and figured out how to really just be in a relationship. We haven't figured out just
• 46:07
  how to be parents. Uh, we haven't figured out how to make our lives feel meaningful. Um, we have
• 46:14
  kind of short quick fixes to things, and we certainly have lessons that we teach from generation
• 46:19
  to generation, but we're still like holistically trying to solve these questions. Um, and each one
• 46:26
  of us is bothered by a kind of a different tendril of it. Um, and so I feel like when I'm looking at
• 46:32
  the work of other directors, I see them trying to solve those questions for themselves.
• 46:36
  I mean, speaking of other directors, because, um, because I was thinking as I was, um,
• 46:41
  watching films and also researching them, but I know because of the film, because that you like
• 46:45
  you mentioned Terence Malik here, obviously, a big fan. And, uh, and, you know, of course,
• 46:51
  who's who's phenomenal, but also, um, because I know, I feel like when I was watching up in the
• 46:55
  air, specifically, I was thinking, but also your own films, like, you know, thank you for smoking
• 47:00
  and, um, and Tully, and I felt that sort of, I feel like you have, there's an artistic
• 47:04
  kinship with filmmakers such as like Alexander Payne, or I know you're a big fan of who has that,
• 47:09
  you know, you know, who wants to explore a kind of Americana, which is kind of, which is spiky and
• 47:14
  sort of subversive, but also, there's a kind of apple pie sort of surface of it, right? You
• 47:19
  know, there's a kind of sort of, not I love, hey, but there's a, there's a real sort of,
• 47:22
  it almost feels like a, an affection for a kind of fall of American person, American kind of living
• 47:28
  or style. And then, you know, you go into that and you and pick it and you're real and you find,
• 47:33
  I don't, I wouldn't go try to say like, well, maybe I would say so, but the rotten apple core
• 47:37
  at the center of it, like, something like, just sort of like, election. Like, do you, and I know
• 47:41
  you guys also share a, um, I can share the composer and rock head for a long time. Like, you know,
• 47:45
  he's scored, yeah, it's both of your films. I mean, are you guys like friendly? Do you,
• 47:49
  are you a fan of his films? Do you, uh, you know, do you see any sort of, I get creative
• 47:52
  overlap and crossover between the two of you back and forth?
• 47:55
  I mean, certainly. I'm a huge admirer of his and, uh, I feel lucky that we're friends and we get
• 48:00
  to talk about movies. He, he happened to be at Tell Your Ride for the first three premieres of
• 48:05
  my first three films and that, uh, that's something I'll always take away with me.
• 48:09
  There's a few directors like that. I dance directors like, you know,
• 48:13
  Alexander, I mean, Andrea Arnold, Sean Baker. I mean, I think these filmmakers are just kind of
• 48:19
  untouchable as far as their ability to capture truth, the way that they put people on screen
• 48:26
  that I've never seen before and they find a way to get me to dig deep inside my own heart.
• 48:33
  Think about what kind of person I am. What do I want to change about myself? Can I even
• 48:38
  possibly change? Am I doomed to be the same person forever? And they do it in an entertaining way
• 48:44
  that makes me laugh and where the cinematography is gorgeous in a very unconventional way. I mean,
• 48:50
  you look, Danny Villeneuve shoots the lights out and I like, I'll never be able to shoot, you know,
• 48:54
  if I worked a hundred years on one movie, I couldn't get it to look as good as one of his movies,
• 48:58
  you know, that he seems to put out in a year. Um, but there's an unconventional beauty to the way
• 49:04
  that directors like Andrew Arnold, Sean Baker, Alexander, uh, shoot, that is stunning.
• 49:14
  Effortlessly subtly stunning and, uh, that for me is the, the, the out of reach goals that I,
• 49:22
  that I would love to just get like a fingertip on. Yeah, I was, because I know, those guys,
• 49:28
  primarily, like, I, I, I, I, and the pain primarily makes, you know, I guess movies are a smaller
• 49:33
  scale, a smaller, smaller budget. They're, yeah, of course, so, like, in the, or, uh, or Christopher
• 49:37
  Nolan. And I guess there's that, I'm like, Shamel, I'm broke, which I love, which is like, you
• 49:40
  know, when he comes to make, when he's making a film, the, the idea for him is, is like, sushi,
• 49:44
  it's like the best ingredients of the, I guess, the, the smallest quality. So it's more
• 49:48
  less complex. Like, the best ingredients is a fewest, but best ingredients, and there's like
• 49:51
  a simplicity in that. But also, there is, that transcends the sum of the parts, I guess, because
• 49:57
  when you're working on a smaller budget, when you're working on a smaller scale, you have to be
• 50:02
  inventive, then you have to sort of, and, and you have to put things together that probably, it
• 50:06
  wouldn't normally, if, I guess, if, if there was time and millions and millions and millions of
• 50:10
  dollars, you would, you know, you could just go and grab that, but then you have to be inventive,
• 50:13
  I guess. And so, and making a film, not only is making a story, but as you say, making a film,
• 50:18
  look, you know, tactile and beautiful, it's, you know, yeah, you have to be inventive.
• 50:23
  I'm so pumped for his next film. The trailer for Trapp is so cool. And I love that he has Josh
• 50:29
  Hartnett in a leading role. I didn't realize how much I kind of needed Josh Hartnett back. I,
• 50:34
  I'm genuinely pumped to see that.
• 50:36
  Hartnett's having a great, I feel like we're at the beginning of a Hartnett renaissance here,
• 50:40
  because, you know, it was, because I feel like he was, he was, he had his sort of initial, sort of,
• 50:44
  the height of his initial popularity, his powers a while ago, and then he kind of seems to have
• 50:48
  sort of faded away a little bit. And now, you know, he seems to be really going back, which is,
• 50:52
  of course, always great to see when so on that, you know, that you and my, makes a big comeback.
• 50:56
  Yeah. There's a ton of movies right now. There's a lot of great trailers out now that I'm
• 51:00
  really excited about. It's, it's going to be a good fall. What, what are the things that you're
• 51:05
  sort of most, I guess most pumped for besides Shyamalan? The Sean Baker trailer, I mean,
• 51:12
  is insane. I just like, like, sign me up. I cannot wait. I love the Bob Dylan trailer that
• 51:18
  just dropped was gorgeous. Yeah. I think James Mangold is, you know, I think as far as kind of
• 51:26
  storytelling control, I mean, it is very few. I think who compared to him. Obviously, the,
• 51:32
  that knows for auto trailer is insane. And, you know, take it, purchased.
• 51:40
  There's a few, the Lego, that Lego for L Williams looks like a joy. Like, I just know I'm
• 51:45
  going to have a good time watching that. I'm finally going to see Twisters today. I'm very pumped
• 51:50
  for that. Oh, are you seeing it? And I'm like, 40 x, are you going the full hoggy? You're going to
• 51:54
  see it with all the, I can't go 40 x. I'm, I just, I'm sorry. But I always saw, and I saw
• 52:04
  Deadpool Wolverine last night. I'm not left that much in, I don't remember the last time I left
• 52:10
  that hardening film. Oh, and I haven't seen it yet. I haven't got rounds for it yet. Do you think
• 52:15
  is a filmmaker that you've, that as you've gone along? I get to go right back to the start with
• 52:20
  something like, thank you for smoking, where I think your love of film and style is, it's sort of
• 52:23
  on display in every single shot. And then as you sort of have got, I do you think as you've
• 52:27
  gone along, you've sort of, I guess, maybe this is due to confidence, or maybe just in terms of
• 52:30
  your own personal sort of case when it comes to making film. But do you feel like you've become
• 52:34
  more invisible? I hope so. Well, when I was watching young adult, which was when I really,
• 52:39
  I was really noticing this, this particularly was the fact that the, it felt so much like the
• 52:44
  directing was invisible. It felt like your, it felt like you were taking a step back and you were,
• 52:48
  what, what you wanted to do instead was just let the characters and the actors guide the story
• 52:54
  and guide the filmmaking, I guess, and see what's guide you. And it felt like something that
• 52:58
  sort of, again, developed and like that, that was that came out. That's 1000%. That's been a big
• 53:07
  goal of mine over the last two decades is how do I become invisible as a filmmaker? How do you
• 53:12
  feel my hand less and less for so many reasons? I mean, one, I think there's kind of a certain vanity
• 53:16
  to a filmmaking that says, look at me. But also, filmmaking is a magic trick, a magic trick of trying
• 53:22
  to get someone to emotional feel something that otherwise wouldn't feel and at the most surprising
• 53:27
  moment. And the more you feel the director's hand, the more you know, oh, I'm being manipulated.
• 53:31
  The less you feel the, the director's hand, this is when I point to someone like Andrew Arnold,
• 53:36
  whose hand seems so invisible. And yeah, she's getting you to feel all these complex things.
• 53:43
  That for me is exhilarating, you know, or even like Richard Linklater with the before series,
• 53:48
  before Sunrise, you know, before Sunside and Midnight, his hand becomes more and more invisible.
• 53:55
  And yet he gets you to feel more and more.
• 53:58
  I thought it was ironic though that that sort of sense, I guess, of sort of more restrained
• 54:03
  and invisible directing that felt like a development and maturity, if you like.
• 54:07
  But it is ironic that that happened on a film, on like young adult, which is all about
• 54:11
  stunted growth and all about, you know, not being able to let go of the past.
• 54:17
  And yet it felt like in real maturity, I guess as well, also with Diablo,
• 54:22
  and her writing and her storytelling, that it felt like you guys were really not only flexing
• 54:26
  your muscles, but really sort of growing beyond what you had done, which is so exciting to see
• 54:30
  as a viewer, as well, if you're consuming whatever you're consuming, whether it's film or music,
• 54:34
  you know, you want the artists that you like and the story that you want, you like to see them,
• 54:38
  you know, change and grow. And which is why I felt it.
• 54:43
  It happens as watching more too, right? You know, if you asked me when I was 13, you know,
• 54:49
  what's the most brilliant movie I've ever made? I'd probably say Die Hard. And it's still in my top,
• 54:53
  you know, 20 probably, but right around the time of young adult, I would probably, you know,
• 55:00
  give you a full monologue on why Lucas Moodyson is, you know, is a, you know, is a God living on Earth.
• 55:06
  So it's just, it, you evolve as you watch new things. And I, I wasn't someone who had watched
• 55:14
  every movie ever made at the age of 16. I think much like, you know, drinking alcohol,
• 55:19
  it came to me slowly. And through different chapters of my life, I've gotten to fall in love with
• 55:25
  different, you know, parts of cinema. And there's places that I really still haven't even cracked
• 55:29
  the surface on. So I've watching movies has been like a lifelong journey for me.
• 55:34
  Hmm, same. I mean, like the, the thing with film is that there's always, of course, there's always
• 55:38
  going to be more to watch. There's never, like, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's like a swim pool where
• 55:43
  you can't really touch the bottom of it unless maybe your mind's, of course, as you'd be watching,
• 55:46
  and you've watched everything. But every film free, 1980, it seems, but like, like, I think he's
• 55:51
  like the one, the one guy who's maybe who's coming up on, you know, you know, well, you know,
• 55:56
  Quentin and, you know, you're right, Neely Roth, I'm probably all giving him a run for his money.
• 56:02
  I was presumed that those guys have seen literally everything that's ever been made and having
• 56:05
  an encyclopedic knowledge of every shot that's in all those films. I look, I'm definitely,
• 56:14
  I'm a slower watcher. I, I come to it later and, and I have a horrible memory. So, you know,
• 56:19
  weird way. It's, uh, the idea is end up kind of sticking to some more deep in my subconscious and
• 56:25
  they pop up, uh, at unexpected moments. Hmm, you say you have a terrible memory. Do you, um,
• 56:30
  do you, are you on that box? Do you use that box? Is that like, I sort of, do you log it? Do you
• 56:34
  log films on them? Is that something that you're just, I've started to, I've started to try to log
• 56:38
  everything I've ever seen and it's, it's a wild process. And, and by the way, I'm not sure if this
• 56:44
  happens to you, uh, and maybe not because you're younger. Everyone saw them like, have I seen that,
• 56:50
  like, there's these moments where movie, like, particularly movies that they came out, or like,
• 56:54
  in the 90s, early 2000s, where I was watching, you know, God knows how many movies a day, or I,
• 57:00
  I'm pretty sure I saw that horror film that came out for a week, you know, that I did. Maybe,
• 57:08
  I don't know. Yeah, no, I have the exact same thing. And sometimes occasionally I will,
• 57:13
  you know, I, I will cheat because I'll, I'll have watched the movie when I was like six years old,
• 57:16
  just, and, uh, you know, just happened to be on television and I'll, then I'll find out. Yeah.
• 57:21
  And I'm like, I think that counts. I think that counts. Yeah. I guess now having, because, um,
• 57:26
  having obviously done your last one was Ghostbusters Afterlife, which was, you know, a theater
• 57:30
  of success. And, you know, it's, um, and people really, you know, took us to the hearts and, uh,
• 57:34
  and, and then it obviously spawns, throws an empire and, you know, you, you and Gil have really,
• 57:38
  it, those two films back to back, it really, you know, it came together and you pulled off. I mean,
• 57:42
  and now your next song is SNL95. Did it feel a bit like, okay, we've done after life,
• 57:48
  that's almost, I know that you said, that was a personal story for you that you want to tell
• 57:50
  you, you and your dad. But did it almost sort of feel a little bit like it? That's, that's one for
• 57:54
  them. And now I get to make SNL95, which, and I know you co-ro with Gil. I mean, is that,
• 57:59
  was that sort of like a passion project that you guys were really keen on, uh, on telling as well?
• 58:04
  Absolutely. I've wanted to tell the story for a long time. It's something that's been like
• 58:08
  kicking away in my brain. And I felt like after, after Ghostbusters I had earned it. And, um,
• 58:14
  I wanted to tell the story, but only if we could do it at the highest level, which included
• 58:20
  rebuilding the entire eighth and ninth floor of Rockefeller Center in 1975, having, you know,
• 58:25
  80 speaking roles, oftentimes 40 on the same day, all my simultaneously. It was a very complicated
• 58:31
  endeavor, not easy to pull off and required the sport of a real studio. And after Ghostbusters,
• 58:39
  Sony really stepped up. And they got the vision and they went for it. Then we went down to
• 58:44
  Atlanta and it built something that was extraordinary. It was, it was an amazing shoot.
• 58:50
  It sounds like it was, you know, so ambitious shoot then. I mean, was that something that you felt
• 58:53
  like more like after Ghostbusters, it obviously got all the spectacle of Ghostbusters and mounting
• 58:58
  that production, like now you're, you know, you're re-creating a period, which I know you've
• 59:02
  done before with things like Labor Day. And, and thank you for smoking is, you know, is not,
• 59:05
  except before, you know, when it came out. Honestly, I made this movie called The Front Runner,
• 59:10
  that was about the 1988 presidential election. And that was probably the best education,
• 59:18
  and how to do one of these movies about how to make something heal hyper real to portray
• 59:23
  a large group of people where you're not going to get proper interest to every single person,
• 59:27
  but you just are kind of tossed into an environment and have to understand everything that's
• 59:31
  happening around you in real time. And, and, and a movie where you're not going to understand
• 59:36
  everything actually that's going to be happening. Some things are going to fly by you,
• 59:39
  but that's what it feels like to be in, you know, the belly of the beast. And, you know,
• 59:45
  you've been on a film set, you know, what it's like, you know, there's, there's a hundred people
• 59:48
  moving in different directions. You could possibly tell, say, what they're all doing, but they all
• 59:53
  have a common goal. And I've been at SNL, you know, I, I, I got to do a, I guess, writing job there
• 1:00:01
  for a week back in 2010. And it was one of the greatest weeks of my life. And I think ever since
• 1:00:06
  then I wanted to make a film that captured the energy of 90 minutes to show time.
• 1:00:12
  You, I mean, I guess another question is because I don't, you and Jake, I'm sorry. So this
• 1:00:16
  will have to be the last one and I'm going to hop off. Yeah, of course, I guess quickly then,
• 1:00:20
  I mean, because I know Jake, hey, Simmons, you have a real, you know, you guys work together.
• 1:00:23
  I think he's been in every single film you've made. I want to say, like, you know, you guys
• 1:00:26
  won't wear another, yeah. In one way, either over the phone or like, or every, you know,
• 1:00:30
  he's got the camera. Is he coming back for SNL 75? Is he, is he there? Is he, uh, is he?
• 1:00:35
  Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. He plays Milton Burl and he's absolutely brilliant. There's
• 1:00:40
  literally no one who could have done it as well as he did. I was really lucky that I met Jake
• 1:00:45
  back on Thank You for Smoking. And it felt like someone who just understood my sense of humor,
• 1:00:51
  understood my voice and felt like family in many ways. I look at scripts and books thinking,
• 1:00:57
  okay, who's Jake? Are you going to play? And when I met Damien Chazelle and we started talking
• 1:01:02
  about Whiplash, I think maybe the only thing that I did on that film was say, oh, it's got to be
• 1:01:09
  Jake, hey, Simmons. And I made that phone call. And otherwise, I'm just lucky to have my name on
• 1:01:14
  it, frankly. I adore Jake. And I hope he's in every movie I ever make. So what you're saying is that
• 1:01:20
  you're on some level responsible for his Oscar win, having made that call to get him in that movie,
• 1:01:25
  I guess. No, no, no, that that is a hundred percent the result of JK and Damien's brilliance.
• 1:01:33
  But sometimes, you know, you get to be close to these things that I know you're kidding around,
• 1:01:39
  but like it feels really special to be close to that kind of talent at the moment where they're
• 1:01:46
  making something that's just lights out that, you know, that's an old time or I thought really
• 1:01:52
  lucky to be close to that. I thought really lucky to be close to a car and as she was making
• 1:01:56
  Jennifer's body, that just those are moments where I just feel lucky to be in the car. Wonderful.
• 1:02:01
  Well, I think that's a lovely note to end it on Jason. I'll let you get, I realize I've kept you
• 1:02:04
  a bit longer than we usually said. So sorry about that. I could obviously keep chatting to you all day
• 1:02:09
  because, you know, I love your films and I love your filmmaking and what can I say? I'm super stoked
• 1:02:15
  for the next one. Thanks again for chatting. I love this conversation. I love your love for
• 1:02:20
  cinema and it just kind of exudes from you and I saw it at the moment I met you and it's a
• 1:02:25
  genuine pleasure to talk to you. Next time I can pass all the questions.
• 1:02:30
  Nice one. I apologize well for not having eaten any Cheetos since that day. That was the last time
• 1:02:35
  I've eaten Cheetos. I don't have the next time I'm moving. Basically, all I mean, Jason,
• 1:02:43
  first of all, we did was chat movies and eat Cheetos for like a good hour. Next time Cheetos are
• 1:02:48
  on me.