Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E51 An Interview with Dr Michael Ayalon and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: S1E51 An Interview with Dr Michael Ayalon and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

0:17
And welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building
0:20
Profitable Connections. Welcome back to the show,
0:23
folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're
0:26
listening to the podcast where networking is
0:29
more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee.
0:32
It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist.
0:35
It's an art and talent you can actually learn.
0:38
Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the
0:41
corner at every event pretending to check emails.
0:45
Networking isn't just a nice skill to have. It's
0:48
a game changer. When you get good at it, you'll
0:51
wonder why you didn't start sooner. More connections,
0:54
more opportunities, more profits. It's like unlocking
0:57
a cheat code for life. Now, I have a guest today.
1:02
His name is Dr. Michael, I'm sorry, Ayalon? That's
1:07
right. All right. And he is an award -winning
1:11
speaker, author, social media figure, hazing
1:15
prevention expert, host of the Fraternity Footy
1:20
podcast, and CEO of Greek University. That is
1:25
a mouthful, but I have to tell you. So, Michael,
1:29
instead of me butchering your background, why
1:32
don't you introduce yourself and just tell us
1:35
a little bit more about it? Happy to do it, Michael.
1:37
Thank you so much for having me on the show.
1:40
Yes, I am Dr. Michael Ailon, and I am the CEO
1:43
of Greek University. And I would say the path
1:47
that got me to this point was pretty wild. I
1:50
was a student at the University of Buffalo in
1:52
Buffalo, New York. I had a very good experience
1:55
within my fraternity, became chapter president,
1:57
and that really contributed to all kinds of leadership
2:00
skills and communication skills and even motivational
2:04
skills for my team. And I was an entrepreneur
2:07
in the New York City and Long Island area for
2:10
a number of years, really enjoyed that. And all
2:13
of a sudden I got an email from the fraternity
2:15
that I joined in college. And they said they
2:18
were looking for a new executive director of
2:20
the entire national fraternity. And we have 120
2:23
chapters all throughout the country and 120 ,000
2:26
members. And I looked at that job description.
2:29
I said, wow, I can actually making a living.
2:32
just doing fraternity work. It sounds like a
2:34
dream job. And sure enough, I applied for the
2:37
job and I got it. And they were located in the
2:40
Nashville, Tennessee area where I went a few
2:43
times, had a really good time. And I brought
2:46
my wife out there to come and check it out. She
2:48
absolutely loved it. And we made the decision
2:50
to move to the Nashville area, bring our two
2:53
children and start this. in professional fraternity
2:58
life. And I have to tell you, I really enjoyed
3:00
every moment of it. I went to visit a majority
3:03
of our chapters throughout the country. And when
3:06
I went to go visit these chapters, I saw the
3:08
same thing over and over again on just about
3:10
every single college campus. It was either hazing.
3:13
sexual assaults, or alcohol and drugs. These
3:16
are the three main problems that we see on just
3:19
about every single college campus. And after
3:21
seeing that on a loop for three years, eventually
3:23
I said, you know what? Enough. I have to stop
3:26
worrying about just my own organization. And
3:28
I have to work with every fraternity, every sorority,
3:31
every college campus, regardless if my fraternity
3:34
is there or not. Because if you're not a member
3:37
of the Greek community, you don't really know
3:38
the difference between these organizations anyway.
3:40
You just see it as a Greek problem. And if I
3:43
wanted my children and future generations to
3:46
get that same leadership experience that I had
3:49
in college, then I was going to have to fight
3:51
really hard to make some adjustments within fraternity
3:54
and sorority life to make sure that we sustain
3:57
ourselves for the next century. And so I started
4:00
just speaking on college campuses myself. Then
4:04
some of the college campuses that I would work
4:06
on, they'd say, hey, Mike, this was a great presentation
4:08
here. But next semester, we want to talk about
4:11
mental health. Or next semester, we want to talk
4:14
about something else. And so I said, well, that's
4:16
great, but that's not really what I talk about.
4:18
So I have a whole bunch of friends that I could
4:20
recommend to come and speak on your college campus.
4:23
And before you know it, the team started getting
4:26
larger and larger. And now we're up to 22 speakers
4:29
that speak every week on college campuses across
4:31
the country. Actually, tomorrow, I'm going to
4:34
be heading to High Point University in North
4:36
Carolina. That is very exciting. And then next
4:39
week, I'll be at Lock Haven University in Pennsylvania.
4:41
It's just been a really fun adventure and it
4:44
just, it really helps that every single day I
4:46
get to go to work and make college campuses safer.
4:49
It's just very meaningful and impactful work.
4:52
You know, I don't even know how to second everything
4:57
that you just said, because I believe in that
5:00
wholeheartedly and I have such a passion for
5:04
it. I think I told you about the local. group
5:08
that we have, Revved Up Kids, and what they're
5:11
doing within Georgia. And I help them whenever
5:14
possible. So it's a very important aspect of
5:18
who I am and what I talk about, but it's very
5:21
good. Okay, so let me just dive right into this.
5:25
How did your background in fraternity and sorority
5:28
life shape your approach to networking? I think
5:32
you basically covered this, but I'm going to
5:34
ask you again. Yeah, it's a great question. And
5:37
I think that because I am a member of the fraternity
5:40
and sorority community, and because I do take
5:42
that oath that I took when I joined the organization
5:44
very seriously, we commit to certain values when
5:48
we join the organization. And so when we join
5:50
the organization, we talk about things like scholarship,
5:53
we talk about things like community service,
5:56
we talk about things like academics. And so I
6:00
live my life that same way today as I did when
6:04
I joined the fraternity back in college in terms
6:06
of those values. In the approach to networking,
6:09
now I'm constantly thinking about things like
6:12
community service as an example. And how do we
6:15
integrate that into our careers? Because ultimately,
6:19
if you want to be a really good leader, you have
6:21
to be a servant leader. You have to be giving
6:24
back some way to society. Even if you're just
6:27
selling widgets. really want to have employees
6:30
that are going to go the extra mile for you,
6:32
the question is, how are you making the world
6:34
a better place with those widgets? And even if
6:37
you don't with the widgets itself, perhaps once
6:40
a month, you could take your entire team of workers
6:44
and go and give back to the community in some
6:46
way. Maybe you all go to work at a soup kitchen,
6:49
or you all go to paint a fence at a local church
6:52
that needs repainting. Whatever it is, at least
6:55
you're giving back in some way so that way your
6:57
employees feel good. about the work that they're
7:00
doing. It's more than just getting their hands
7:03
to do particular work. You have to essentially
7:06
get and capture their minds and their hearts.
7:09
And how do you do that? You do that through community
7:11
service. And so when I'm networking, I'm constantly
7:14
thinking about, hey, tell me something that's
7:17
going on great at your company right now, something
7:20
you're really proud of. And I'm always listening
7:22
about things like community service and giving
7:24
back. in some way, because that's ultimately
7:27
how you capture your employees and you make them
7:30
really just go the extra mile for you, is to
7:33
give back and make each other feel good in terms
7:35
of the work that you're doing. So those are the
7:37
kind of the ways that I use the fraternity and
7:40
sorority experience within the networking atmosphere
7:42
is to key in on, hey, what are you doing that's
7:45
giving back to your community in some way? And
7:48
that foundation all started in the fraternity
7:50
and sorority experience. That's great, because
7:53
the foundation of networking, because this is
7:57
what I go around and talk about, is how can I
8:01
give, not receive? And whenever you sit down
8:04
with somebody and explain, you're not explaining
8:07
what you do, but you're listening to what they
8:10
do. And you say, how can I make you more successful?
8:14
How can I be a good referral source for you?
8:19
Zig Ziglar says it the best, but what goes around
8:22
comes around. OK, so if you do that often enough,
8:25
it's going to come back around to you. But that
8:28
is the foundation of true networking. So hats
8:32
off to you, Michael. That's the best way to say
8:34
it. OK, how has your work in hazing prevention
8:38
influenced your networking strategies? That's
8:42
also a really good question. I just recently
8:45
completed my doctorate and it's over at MTSU
8:48
and the degree is in assessment learning and
8:51
student success in higher education. And I wrote
8:54
my dissertation on the early warning signs of
8:56
hazing in college fraternities and sororities.
8:59
So now I actually have 173 pages published on
9:05
that work. And so when I'm networking many times,
9:08
again, just like you said, it's always about
9:10
being a giver. giving people other information
9:13
that's going to help them. And ultimately, I
9:16
agree with you. I think it's all about karma.
9:18
If you just keep freely giving to other people,
9:21
eventually that's going to come back around and
9:23
it might not actually be the person that you're
9:25
helping. It might actually be somebody else.
9:28
So I freely give information. So when I'm networking,
9:32
I love to hear what are some of the issues that
9:36
people in, let's say I'm at a higher ed conference,
9:39
right? And I'm meeting a whole bunch. bunch of
9:41
people that are in higher ed administrators,
9:43
staff, et cetera. I'm always asking them, Hey,
9:46
what are some of the things that are keeping
9:48
you up at night right now? And you just sit and
9:51
listen and you hear what their pain points are.
9:54
I'm not necessarily telling them that, Hey, I'm
9:57
a hazing prevention expert and I'm forcing it
9:59
on them. I'm more about listening to what their
10:01
problems are. And then I can make sure that I
10:04
get them to the right person. It may or may not
10:07
be me. So if they have a problem with, let's
10:10
say, mental health, that's not going to be me.
10:12
However, I have a bunch of people that I can
10:15
refer them to. And so that's really the key in
10:18
terms of networking and using all of that experience
10:20
within hazing prevention is listening to what
10:23
your customers want. What are their pain points?
10:26
And then if you can help to solve that pain point,
10:29
wonderful. You have a match. If not, refer them
10:32
to somebody else. So that way, the next time
10:34
they have a problem, they'll come back to you
10:36
again. And that might be the time that ultimately
10:39
you're going to be able to help them. And also
10:41
think about the person you're referring them
10:43
to. That person is going to think that you know
10:45
everybody because you're sending this lead over
10:48
to that speaker. And so they're going to return
10:50
the favor somewhere down the road when they have
10:53
somebody that needs hazing prevention work. So
10:56
I love to share as an example, my dissertation,
10:58
because I think that if you're helping people
11:01
and they get a lot of value out of it, I freely
11:03
do that. I don't charge people for access to
11:06
all of that research. I freely give it out. And
11:08
ultimately, if they like it, that's wonderful.
11:10
If it helps them, that's wonderful. forward it
11:14
to their friends that ultimately need this kind
11:17
of help and support. And so I just, I really
11:19
believe in what you said before, just freely
11:21
giving. And ultimately the world is going to
11:23
find a way to reward you for that. And I've been
11:26
able to build a career from that exact plan.
11:31
Exactly. And you hit so many nails on the head
11:35
just by what you said, but the crux of it is
11:39
you are a problem solver. OK, you promote active
11:43
listening and listening isn't hearing. OK, listening
11:48
is listening. And you pause after you listen,
11:51
because that tells you the person that you were
11:55
listening and you're going to respond to what
11:58
he said, not the next thing that you have to
12:00
say. OK, so you're responding to it and you're
12:04
a problem solver. Say, you know what? I may not
12:07
be able to help you, but I know somebody who
12:09
can. So the fact is that you get somebody within
12:14
the same day and have that person call, you are
12:18
the person that they can trust. for just about
12:22
any of their problems. Yeah. And they come to
12:24
me anytime they're having a problem, they're
12:26
conditioned to coming to me. And that's a beautiful
12:28
thing because now I have over 20 speakers that
12:32
I can refer them to that are in -house and I
12:34
can get them to the expertise that they want.
12:36
Or even if it's not even in my company, I'll
12:39
send those leads over to my competitors at times,
12:41
because again, I'm only one person and I speak
12:45
about hazing prevention, but I can't be on every
12:47
single college campus every single day. And so
12:50
there are times when I'm booked and I can't be
12:53
in two places at the same time. So I really do
12:56
have to rely on some of my competitors and I'll
12:59
send some of those leads over to them so they
13:01
can fill it. And then vice versa, they're able
13:04
to send me over some leads when I'm looking for
13:07
work. So I really believe in that. I think that
13:09
there's enough business out there for everybody.
13:12
And ultimately I just freely give. And I tell
13:15
you what, we're now in September, we're going
13:17
to celebrate our 10th year of being in business.
13:20
Greek university. And that is really, I think
13:22
the key to our success is not really just promoting
13:25
our own speaking services, but really just being
13:28
a problem solver and getting our clients to the
13:31
right person, whether that's with us or somebody
13:34
else. That's great because that just goes with
13:38
the fact that you have a servant's heart. Okay.
13:42
You're there to assess and you're there to figure
13:46
out what their problem is and you're going to
13:48
solve it whether you're the answer or not even
13:51
like you said the competition and you don't think
13:55
of it as competition no you just think of it
13:57
as helping the person Correct. I look at just
13:59
helping my client first and foremost. It's all
14:01
about serving the client and making sure that
14:04
they're happy. Sometimes that's with us. And
14:06
obviously, that's a wonderful thing. We want
14:08
our company to grow. We want to add new employees.
14:10
But sometimes it's not. You also have to be realistic
14:13
about what their needs are and who would be the
14:15
best person to help them expertly. And I think
14:18
our clients remember that. They know that I'm
14:21
going to help them and I'm going to get them
14:23
to the right place, whether that's with me or
14:24
not. They appreciate that. They appreciate the
14:27
honesty. And then that way they come to me for
14:29
every single opportunity. And that's a really
14:32
good thing long -term over a 10 -year period.
14:35
That's a really good thing. That's what I try
14:36
to tell people, that if you do this enough, it's
14:41
going to come around, it's going to come back
14:43
to you. But don't think of it as part of your
14:47
thing that you say. You know, you have to truly
14:50
believe it. And if you do it and you believe
14:53
it, that's what will come around to you. Yes.
14:56
Okay, so what role has networking played into
15:01
your entrepreneurial ventures? Oh boy, it's a
15:04
huge part of being a successful entrepreneur.
15:07
It's funny because in college, they don't really
15:09
teach you how to be an entrepreneur. I was an
15:12
accounting major in the business school, and
15:14
you would think that they would be teaching networking,
15:17
but they really don't. Ultimately, the key to
15:20
business, and I learned this in being an accountant
15:22
for my first job, it was a networking company
15:25
on Long Island, and immediately he showed us
15:28
a CRM. And I'm like, a CRM? What the heck is
15:30
a CRM? I have nobody in college ever. taught
15:33
me once what a CRM was. And it's really this
15:36
customer relationship management database. And
15:40
that's just a database essentially of all of
15:42
your clients. And in there, we're able to put
15:45
in all of our contacts and you're able to keep
15:48
notes on all of the conversations that you have
15:51
with your clients. And the system will actually
15:54
remind you when it's time to send them an email,
15:56
or it's time to give them a call, or it's time
15:58
to go and visit their office as an example. Every
16:02
single day when I wake up, it actually tells
16:04
me what are the things that I need to work on
16:06
today. It's a wonderful thing to stay organized
16:10
and to actually reach your customer when they
16:13
actually need you. I would say that ultimately,
16:16
that's one of the biggest lessons that I learned
16:18
in being an entrepreneur is if you want to be
16:20
successful as an entrepreneur, you better have
16:22
some CRM package, some database that you're able
16:26
to track these hundreds or thousands of clients
16:29
that you have and be able to to reach out to
16:32
them at the right time. Ultimately, it's a big
16:35
sales funnel. You have all of these clients that
16:37
are out there and they're all going to close
16:39
deals for you at various points throughout the
16:41
year. Some might be in January, some might be
16:44
in February, some might be in March, et cetera.
16:46
So you have to know exactly when they are needing
16:49
your service and reach out to them at exactly
16:52
the right time. The only way to do that in a
16:55
way that stays organized without your head exploding
16:58
from just too many clients. and too much to remember
17:01
is having that CRM package. So that's really
17:04
the key to my success is having that CRM package
17:08
and ultimately going and networking at the various
17:11
conferences where my clients are at. So that
17:14
way I'm always staying on top of my clients in
17:17
terms of what's going on in their world. I'll
17:19
take notes on the back of their business card
17:21
when I see them. So that way it tells me, okay,
17:24
this is what's going on. This is what they're
17:26
looking to get over the next year. This is when
17:29
they're planning. on executing a contract, all
17:32
of those things. And then I'll go back home and
17:34
then update my database with everything that
17:36
I found out in that networking session at that
17:39
conference. And also sometimes it alerts you
17:41
to new people in the industry. Sometimes people
17:44
leave the industry and they leave one of your
17:46
clients and a new person comes in. So networking
17:48
allows you to meet them in person and have that
17:50
handshake. So that way, the next time you call
17:53
on them, we can talk about when I saw them at
17:56
the conference and we ended up bumping into each
17:59
other. at the bar downstairs after the sessions
18:03
let out. So when you remember all of those things
18:06
and you remember those conversations, of course,
18:08
I'm typing all of that into my CRM package, then
18:11
immediately it brings that customer to life and
18:14
they remember that networking meeting that you
18:16
had, what you talked about, and then we start
18:19
getting right into what their needs are going
18:21
forward over the next year. So that's a little
18:24
bit of a synopsis in terms of how I network with
18:27
my clients and the tools. that I need, a CRM
18:30
package to make all of that happen. Michael,
18:33
it's like I kept on feeding you cards to touch
18:36
on certain points of networking and you hit them
18:39
all. You hit them all. And everything that you
18:43
said, including the follow -up and that writing
18:45
on the back of the card is something that I strongly
18:49
suggest. I suggest writing the date, the name
18:53
of the function and something you spoke about.
18:56
And you carry that with you until you put it
18:59
to your CRM. Using a CRM is something that I
19:02
go around to the high schools and the colleges.
19:04
And I tell them, saying that you need to start
19:07
this now. Because if you start it once you graduate
19:11
and you're looking, you know what? It's a little
19:14
too late. So you have to do it now. And it's
19:18
the follow -up. It's so important what you said
19:21
with the follow -up. Because I think it's more
19:23
important than meeting the person directly. Because
19:27
the follow -up, and I have a secret sauce for
19:29
follow -up so that it really works, but it does.
19:33
And everything that you said is so on point that,
19:38
you know, anybody that's listening, you have
19:41
to listen to Michael because he knows what he's
19:44
talking about. Okay, so what is your top tip
19:49
for building meaningful connections in professional
19:52
settings? Oh boy. Again, if you want to have
19:57
meaningful connections with clients in professional
20:00
settings, it goes way beyond just a business
20:03
card. Okay. Most business cards, I got to tell
20:07
you, they end up in the trash. Okay. That is
20:09
the God's honest truth. And I hate to say that,
20:11
especially to college students, because they
20:13
think that just handing out a bunch of. business
20:15
cards is networking. It's really not. The key
20:18
to getting results is building relationships.
20:22
That is the key. And that's got to, you can't
20:24
microwave a relationship. You can't have a relationship
20:28
and fully develop that in 30 seconds over, let's
20:31
say a meeting at a conference. It's just not
20:34
going to happen. You have to. really nurture
20:37
that relationship over time. And so what does
20:41
that mean? That means that you need to be regularly
20:43
checking in and providing value to those. potential
20:48
new customers. And that means reaching out to
20:51
them on a regular basis. And that could mean
20:53
a whole bunch of various things. For example,
20:55
I send out a newsletter to all of the contacts
20:58
in my CRM. Why am I sending out a monthly newsletter?
21:02
By the way, if you look at how often that newsletter
21:05
is opened up, Typically, out of all of the newsletters
21:09
that I send out, about 70%, 7 -0, 70 % of those
21:14
email newsletters get opened up. That is a ridiculously
21:17
high open rate for emails today. And why is that?
21:23
Because I'm always providing value in those newsletters.
21:26
You really have to look at that newsletter and
21:27
figure out what is the value to the customer
21:29
for opening this up and reading it. There has
21:31
to be some content that is of value to them in
21:35
some way. So make sure you're delivering that
21:37
value and make sure that you're sending out this
21:39
newsletter on a regular basis. It can't be like
21:42
once a year because then they're forgetting about
21:44
you. It's got to be on a regular basis. I send
21:47
it out once a month. I know others in business
21:49
that are very successful. They'll send out their
21:51
newsletters once a week. You really have to figure
21:53
out what works for your clients. However, I would
21:55
say that make sure you're really giving a lot
21:57
of value and make sure that you're staying consistent
21:59
in terms of sending that out. Why is that consistency
22:02
so important? Because I want to create top. of
22:05
the mind awareness in the minds of all of my
22:09
potential customers. So that means that if an
22:13
opportunity opens up and let's say they just
22:16
received the newsletter from me three days ago,
22:18
then immediately when the opportunity comes up
22:22
and they say, wow, we need a speaker on our college
22:24
campus, I want them to instantly think of Dr.
22:26
Mike Ailan at Greek University. I'm building
22:29
that top of the mind awareness. So that way,
22:31
when the opportunity comes up, they say to themselves,
22:33
I have to send this lead. to Mike. That's what
22:36
I'm trying to build. And so that's why it's important
22:39
for you to stay consistent and always be delivering
22:41
value. And you have to nurture that relationship
22:44
over time. Again, you can't microwave relationships.
22:47
This is something that you build long -term over
22:50
a long period of time and really start talking
22:53
to your clients about little things. As an example,
22:56
I found out one of my potential clients loves
22:58
the New York Yankees. And I happen to be a big
23:01
Yankees fan. Aaron Judge is having a phenomenal
23:03
start to the season. The Yanks. are rolling at
23:06
six and three. They're looking really good this
23:08
season. So immediately I'm sending an email to
23:10
my potential client saying, hey, did you see
23:13
the Yankee game last night? Aaron Judge is just
23:15
on fire. And it's these little things. And I
23:17
put that all into the CRM package, of course,
23:19
that he's a Yankee fan. So immediately when I'm
23:22
reaching out to him, we're talking about Yankees
23:24
and things that we can instantly bond on. And
23:27
then we can start talking about whatever opportunities
23:30
exist. But those are the types of things that
23:32
really take you to the next level is when you
23:34
know their favorite sports team, when you call
23:37
them to wish them a happy birthday, when you
23:39
know their wife's name and what's going on with
23:42
her. All of these little things add up. And the
23:46
key is really having that CRM database fully
23:48
populated with all this information. So that
23:51
way, when you're calling them, you're reviewing,
23:52
OK, they have a Siberian cat named Klondike.
23:57
Their birthday is coming up in a month. They
23:59
love Italian food. They're a big New York Yankees
24:02
fan. So you're right. through this list and you
24:05
know exactly what to hit on. And they're saying,
24:07
my God, Michael, how do you remember all of this
24:10
stuff? Your memory is insane. And I'm like, I
24:13
just have a really good CRM package and I took
24:15
great notes. So that's a little bit how it's
24:17
done. Yeah. It's so important in what you hit
24:21
upon was the difference really between the relationships
24:24
and just a customer. Okay. And really ever since
24:29
the pandemic, kids today. They forgot how to
24:33
communicate with one another. They lost networking
24:36
completely because they think everything is through
24:39
Zoom or the cell phone. So you have to take that
24:42
out of their minds. And I have to tell you something.
24:44
I was in the mortgage industry 100 years ago,
24:47
and I used to go to networking events. I used
24:51
to come home with a shoebox filled with business
24:54
cards because that was the way that everybody
24:56
did it. And that was 100 % wrong. And now if
25:01
I go to a three or four hour networking event,
25:04
I come back with about 20 business cards because
25:07
those are people that I created that relationship
25:10
with. They're not just, they might be a customer,
25:13
they might not be. They're nice to look at, talk
25:15
to, anything like that. But the relationship
25:18
building is so very important. And for anybody
25:22
listening. Please, that's what you should take
25:25
away from this is that you need to build those
25:27
relationships, not just customer back and forth.
25:31
Okay, so can you share a challenge you faced
25:35
and how you overcame it? Oh boy, business as
25:39
an entrepreneur, there's challenges all over
25:42
the place. I don't even know where to start,
25:44
but there's constantly challenges. And the question
25:47
is, are you able to overcome them? And my suggestion
25:50
is that if you want to overcome challenges, find
25:53
somebody that you can network with that has been
25:56
there and has done. That is really the key to
25:58
success is there's a whole bunch of people out
26:01
there on LinkedIn, et cetera, that you can reach
26:03
out to that are in your dream position or maybe
26:06
even a competitor. or somebody who's just in
26:09
your business who's encountered that problem
26:10
that you've encountered before, call them up
26:13
and ask for advice. That's another really good
26:16
networking tip is ask people for advice. They
26:19
love to be put in that situation because you're
26:22
coming to them and now you're viewing them as
26:25
an authority in that industry. And they love
26:28
that. They love to show off what their skills
26:31
are. And especially if you're a college student.
26:34
People love to talk about themselves and they
26:35
love to talk about how successful they are. So
26:38
get 15 minutes with somebody who works at the
26:41
company that you want to work at or holds the
26:43
dream position that you're angling for and ask
26:46
them for 15 minutes to figure out how they got
26:48
there. So the key is really just to find other
26:51
people in your niche that have been there, that
26:52
have done that, that can advise you and they
26:55
can steer you in the right direction. And the
26:58
problems, they're inevitable. Every entrepreneur
27:01
out there is going to have problems along the
27:05
way. I remember when I first got started as a
27:08
speaker and new in business at Greek University,
27:10
and it was just me. We didn't have dozens of
27:13
speakers that were standing behind me ready to
27:15
help. And the first six months were absolutely
27:18
brutal because typically there's a six month
27:21
lead time before you can actually start getting
27:23
speaking engagements because a lot of people
27:26
plan six months in advance. So here I am needing
27:30
to have immediate revenue and there was none
27:32
because nobody was going to hire me to speak
27:35
next week. They just didn't operate that way.
27:38
Everyone had a six to a year, six months to a
27:41
year in terms of when they're planning out their
27:43
next big event. And so I remember just struggling.
27:46
And the problem was there was absolutely no revenue.
27:49
That was the number one problem. And so I remember
27:53
just reaching out to another speaker in the industry,
27:55
explaining the situation. And immediately they
27:58
ended up helping me with a local engagements,
28:02
probably not the best in terms of return on investment.
28:06
However, it did get me a whole bunch of things.
28:09
Like it got me photos that I could put onto the
28:11
website. It got me video reels. So that way I
28:14
can start building up my portfolio of videos.
28:18
It started getting me testimonials. So now if
28:21
you looked on my LinkedIn account, I have over
28:23
80 testimonials on LinkedIn right now. And all
28:26
of that started in that first six month phase
28:29
when I had absolutely no revenue coming in. So
28:32
you can take a problem such as no revenue. I
28:35
have no money to put food on the table. That's
28:37
a big problem. However, you can use that constructively
28:40
to start getting photos and video for your website,
28:44
testimonials from others who have heard you speak.
28:47
So that way, when the revenue does come pouring
28:49
in six months from now, then you have all of
28:52
those assets that you need in order to keep this
28:55
engine going. And that started in that first
28:58
six month period. So Was it tight the first six
29:01
months? Absolutely. It was really tight. But
29:04
luckily, I did all of those little things and
29:05
got some great advice from another speaker in
29:07
the industry to help me to get going and to at
29:10
least get all those assets in place. So that
29:12
way, when the speaking engagements did start
29:14
rolling in six months, seven months, eight months
29:17
in, then I was prepared and ready to hit the
29:19
ground running. Problems will happen all the
29:21
time. I would just encourage you to reach out
29:23
to others in your industry. They will help you.
29:25
Most people want to be helpful to others. Absolutely.
29:29
People love to talk about themselves. They love
29:32
to give you the advice that they've been through.
29:35
So you're absolutely right. Reach out to them
29:38
because they will be more than happy to give
29:41
you what they know. They'll talk about it. And
29:44
the fact of speaking without getting paid for
29:47
it, I must have spoken at 50 different venues.
29:52
before I started charging. But that helped me
29:54
get my repetition in, hone in my skill, my craft.
29:58
And it also taught me things about networking
30:02
that I didn't even know. So all of that comes
30:06
into play. So it's very good. But listen, the
30:09
people that you reach out to, they're willing
30:12
to give. Very rarely will you find somebody like,
30:15
no, I'm not interested. They'll always give you
30:18
15, 20 minutes at a time, which will turn out
30:20
to be a half an hour because the first 15 minutes,
30:23
they're going to talk about themselves. So that's
30:25
all right. But either way, that's exactly what
30:27
you have to do. Okay. So how did you balance,
30:31
I'm sorry, how do you balance online and offline
30:35
networking in today's digital age? Oh boy, you
30:40
have to do a little bit of both. I think there
30:42
are conferences that are happening in your niche.
30:45
You have to look at that as a calendar and figure
30:47
out which ones are you going to get some good
30:50
return on investment on and then plan out your
30:52
year. So I usually look at it every summer just
30:55
because I'm usually going by the academic calendar
30:58
for colleges. And every summer I'll look at that
31:00
and say, okay, the first conference we have is
31:03
going to be in December. Then we have a bunch
31:04
that are going on in February. So those are going
31:07
to be my in -person. networking attempts. And
31:10
I'll map that out every single year. And I will
31:12
allocate how much money that I need in order
31:15
to be an exhibitor at those in -person conferences
31:17
and be a speaker at those in -person conferences
31:20
and also sponsor some of those in -person conferences.
31:24
So I'm basically, when I do those in -person
31:27
networking events, I'm hitting them from all
31:30
different directions. Yes, they are going to
31:32
see me and meet me and shake my hand at the exhibit
31:34
hall and at the various sessions. Maybe they
31:36
sit in on one of my sessions. where I'm speaking
31:38
and they get a chance to see me in action, which
31:41
is wonderful. But I'm also hitting them at a
31:43
whole bunch of different ways. They're also seeing
31:45
my logo being advertised all over the conference.
31:49
So that might mean in the app that they're using
31:51
for the conference, they'll actually see my logo
31:54
there. They might see my logo in a banner that's
31:57
actually up on the wall. They might see me all
32:00
different ways throughout that conference where
32:03
I'm sponsoring, et cetera. And that really helps
32:05
to kind of drive home. that message and really
32:08
sink in the brand. So that way, again, building
32:11
that top of the mind awareness about my company.
32:14
So now I have all my in -person networking events
32:18
all scheduled for the entire year. And then it
32:21
just becomes, okay, for the rest of the time,
32:23
what am I going to do? How am I going to network
32:25
online? And so that networking online looks,
32:28
it can take all different forms and shapes. Yes,
32:31
I am constantly emailing my clients. I am constantly
32:34
sending videos to my clients. I'm constantly
32:37
calling my clients. I'm constantly sending them
32:40
email newsletters once a month to my clients.
32:43
I also have written six books. So the books act
32:47
as a brochure. So that way they actually learn
32:50
about our services and our various speakers.
32:52
I have a published dissertation. So in my signature
32:56
on my email, I'm actually including a link to
32:59
my published dissertation. So they see me as
33:02
an authority within fraternity and sorority life.
33:05
specifically around hazing prevention. So there's
33:08
all kinds of online networking going on. Also,
33:12
we do all kinds of webinars that we offer for
33:14
free to our clients on Zoom. So that way they
33:18
can actually network with us, see our various
33:20
speakers and engage with us even when those physical
33:23
conferences are not happening. So you really
33:25
have to figure out how can I provide value and
33:29
providing value looks a whole bunch of different
33:31
ways. The other key to my success is also social
33:35
media. So we have a huge social media following
33:38
on TikTok and on Instagram. Instagram Reels is
33:41
very hot. TikTok is very hot for our target clients,
33:44
which are college students. So I've been able
33:47
to build out a huge following on those social
33:50
media platforms. And I'd highly encourage it,
33:53
especially if you have a younger client demographic
33:55
like college students, that's exactly where they're
33:58
hanging out. So you have to figure out for your
34:00
business, where are my ideal clients hanging
34:03
out? So that way I can build a following in that
34:07
area. And I tell you what, that TikTok algorithm,
34:11
it's going to be very interesting to see what
34:12
happens in terms of the sale of TikTok and if
34:15
they're able to pull that off. But the algorithm
34:17
is so good that whatever topic you are engaged
34:20
in as a business, you can create a TikTok account
34:23
and have a ton of targeted followers within a
34:26
week if you are doing the... videos right. I
34:30
would highly suggest looking into some of that
34:33
online networking that happens on social media,
34:35
because that's a great place to engage your target
34:38
customers. Absolutely. Absolutely. I would say
34:42
I couldn't have said it better myself, but you
34:45
did. Thank you. Again, you hit so many points
34:51
that I wanted to go over with you, but you said
34:55
them so well. but especially going over the social
34:59
media and seeing where your target market is.
35:03
You should really, anybody listening, listen
35:06
to Michael because he knows what he's talking
35:09
about. Also, I love to say for the kids that
35:12
are listening about social media, here's my thing.
35:17
I always say it. Don't post anything on social
35:20
media. You wouldn't show your grandmother. Right.
35:24
So that's just because all the employers, everything
35:28
that I talk about is the employers and how they
35:32
are looking and searching social media for their
35:36
employees. And if they don't like something,
35:39
they're going to call you in and say, what about
35:41
this? What about that? So rather than go through
35:44
all that, just don't post that or delete off
35:48
the things you don't want people to see, but
35:50
just adhere to those. OK, so. How do you ensure
35:54
ethical practices in networking, especially given
35:59
your background in hazing prevention? Wow. Ethical
36:04
practices. I think it's really about just getting
36:06
to know your clients. We want to make sure that
36:09
everybody that we work with, whether it be our
36:11
clients or our employees, we obviously ethics
36:15
are incredibly important because we're all fraternity
36:17
and sorority members for the most part. And that
36:19
means that there are certain values that we treasure
36:23
and things like giving back to our community
36:25
and truth and honesty. And all of those things
36:29
are incredibly important to us. And before I
36:31
get in. It could be a client. It could be an
36:35
employee. I really do want to make sure that
36:37
they share our values. And the one way that I
36:40
do that is a lot of times through an interview
36:43
on the Fraternity Foodie podcast, to be honest
36:45
with you. We end up getting a ton of clients
36:48
through that podcast. We end up getting a ton
36:50
of speakers through that podcast. That's really
36:53
the way that I figure out, is this somebody that
36:55
I want to do business with? And through a 30
36:58
minute conversation, I can very quickly find
37:00
out what are the values of this particular person?
37:03
And is it a match? Because not everybody is going
37:06
to be a match for your corporate culture. So
37:08
I think everybody who's listening right now,
37:10
I really want you to think about what is your
37:12
corporate culture? If you're just a person, an
37:14
individual, what are your values? What's important
37:17
to you? And then before you do business with
37:20
anybody, make sure that person shares those common
37:23
beliefs. Because if not, this could be really
37:26
a disaster. Imagine if we brought in a speaker
37:29
that didn't share. our values, that would be
37:32
very problematic. You can instantly tear down
37:35
an entire company that's been around for 10 years
37:38
based on social media, really bad social media
37:42
posts that goes around the world in about 10
37:44
seconds. So you have to be really careful that
37:47
anybody that you either bring into your company
37:49
or even potentially a client, you want to make
37:52
sure that there's a match in terms of those values.
37:54
And that usually starts with a conversation that
37:57
could be on a podcast as an example. That's a
37:59
really... good place. That's where we get all
38:01
of our new speakers is on the podcast. We invite
38:04
them on and we have a conversation to see if
38:06
this is a good fit. Or if it's with a client,
38:09
just have a phone call or a Zoom session with
38:11
them to make sure, say, hey, listen, this is
38:13
what my company is all about. This is what our
38:16
values are. Is that something that's important
38:18
to you as well? And if the answer is yes, great,
38:21
then we can move forward. If not, that's okay
38:23
too. Again, maybe I can send them to someplace
38:26
else, maybe a competitor or somebody else that
38:29
and service them a little bit better. But for
38:31
me, I'm really into relationships. I'm not into
38:34
just doing one time speaking engagement and then
38:38
never seeing them again. I'm into building relationships
38:41
with people that share my values. And so in order
38:44
to do that, you really have to have that conversation
38:46
on the front end, make sure that there's a match
38:48
and then continue that relationship over a long
38:51
period of time. But it really does start with
38:54
that front end work to make sure that there's
38:56
a match before it's too late. Very good. I learned
39:01
being a restaurant owner, I learned something
39:05
very fast. If you have really good food, they
39:10
will go out and tell a friend, hey, you have
39:13
to go try. If you have really bad food, they'll
39:16
go out and tell 10 people not to go. So you really
39:21
have to be careful. So what you say is so accurate
39:24
and so true. Okay, so what's your approach? to
39:29
creating mutual value in networking relationships.
39:33
You really, I think you're, the question is really
39:37
great. You're setting it up really well because
39:39
the key to great relationships is that mutual
39:42
value. And so you constantly want to think about
39:45
when you're talking to a potential client, start
39:47
asking them, hey, what does the perfect presentation
39:50
look like? What are, as a speaker, What message
39:54
do you want the audience to leave with in order
39:57
to say that this was successful? And so once
40:00
you really understand that, then you can deliver
40:03
on that and then show them, let's say, survey
40:06
results that proves that you actually got that
40:09
result. So every time I go out and speak, I instantly
40:12
make sure that the last slide is a QR code that
40:15
all of the people in the audience can actually
40:17
scan and give me feedback to say, did I hit the
40:20
mark? Did I meet the client's needs? And if the
40:23
answer is yes, wonderful, then let me share that
40:27
with my clients so that way they can see that
40:29
I actually met their needs. And then I need something
40:32
in return, right? What do I need in return? I
40:35
need a testimonial from that client in order
40:38
to attract more clients. And they're more than
40:41
happy to do that if I can prove to them that
40:43
I met their needs. So really the key is making
40:46
sure that you're meeting all of their needs,
40:48
getting very clear on what success looks like.
40:50
And then if you hit, it, then wonderful. Now
40:53
is your time to be able to get something in return,
40:56
which could be a testimonial. It could be a referral
40:58
to another client, but you have to make sure
41:01
that you're hitting their needs first. So that
41:03
way their needs are satisfied. And then you can
41:06
ask for something in return. You don't want to
41:08
be thinking about just your needs. Initially,
41:11
it's always about the client. It's always about
41:13
what do they need. And I will tell you nine times
41:16
out of 10, if their needs are met and they are
41:18
happy with the service that you provided, I promise
41:21
you they will come and deliver whatever it is
41:24
that you need in order to get to the next level
41:25
for your business, whether that be a testimonial
41:28
or referral or what have you. They will be more
41:31
than happy to do it nine times out of 10. That's
41:34
really the way that I am able to make sure that
41:36
everybody's needs are met is just going all out
41:39
to make sure I understand what their needs are.
41:42
I deliver on that, show them proof that I've
41:45
actually reached their goal, and then they're
41:48
more than happy to help me and my business. in
41:50
return. Absolutely. Absolutely. There is a company
41:55
called Talkadot and they have a QR code and they
41:59
have all those analytics for you. I've, I started
42:03
with Talkadot, but I created my own on a Google
42:07
worksheet. So I have my own QR code that goes
42:10
right to my own Google worksheet. And it tells
42:13
me almost the same as the Talkadot information.
42:16
And from there, I can talk to my customer, my
42:20
client about how much they liked it, how much
42:24
they liked it, how much they didn't like it,
42:26
everything like that to serve them that much
42:29
better. Okay. So I'm doing everything to serve
42:32
my customer better, my client better. But you
42:35
got to ask, you got to get that proof. You have
42:38
to ask for those surveys and for those results
42:41
to make sure that you're actually hitting the
42:42
mark. I think that's one area that if I had a
42:45
do -over in terms of my business, I would have
42:47
started that practice of the QR codes and getting
42:50
surveys from all the students much earlier because
42:53
I think it would have helped the business grow
42:54
at a faster rate. In the beginning, as a speaker,
42:58
you're like, man, I killed it. And you know that
43:00
you did because you're getting good feedback
43:02
when you get off stage. But how does the client
43:04
know that? You can't just say, I killed it. Okay,
43:06
but that's subjective. Right. That's one person's
43:09
opinion. How do you prove that? So you really
43:11
want to collect data on your product or service
43:15
that proves that you're actually hitting the
43:18
mark. And that's something that I wish I would
43:19
have implemented earlier. But I tell you what,
43:21
now that it's implemented, we've just grown by
43:24
leaps and bounds. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let's
43:28
go. Listen, you've proven you are a success and
43:32
I'm sure you had a lot of bumps in the roads
43:34
getting there. So let's concentrate a little
43:38
bit on the mistakes. What's a common networking
43:41
mistake that you've observed and how can my listeners
43:45
avoid it? Yeah. Don't always try to sell. Sometimes
43:49
I overhear some of these networking interactions
43:53
and it's just painfully obvious to me that one
43:57
person is trying to sell a particular solution
44:00
to the other person. And it's almost painful.
44:04
Just be present. Just be in the moment and listen.
44:07
Instead of constantly selling, I need you to
44:10
develop your listening skills. That is incredibly
44:13
important if you want to be successful. You got
44:15
to listen to what the client needs. One particular
44:18
occasion, I remember going to a conference and
44:21
this one particular speaker that worked for a
44:24
competitor was really trying to push their services,
44:27
but it was painful because you could almost hear
44:30
the client on the other end saying, that's not
44:32
one of my needs. We don't have a need for that
44:35
particular type of speaking engagement. That's
44:38
not an issue on our campus. And you have to understand
44:40
all of your clients are going to be different.
44:42
They have different needs. They don't all have
44:44
the same exact need. So you've got to ask the
44:47
question, like, how are things going? Talk to
44:49
me about a problem that you're encountering that
44:51
you don't know how to solve. And really just
44:54
be a listening board as opposed to trying to
44:56
sell your particular solution. It's a really
44:59
big turnoff when somebody feels that somebody
45:03
is forcing themselves on you when, meanwhile,
45:05
they're not listening to the fact that that's
45:07
not a problem for you. I would say be a better
45:10
listener and that's how you can avoid those types
45:12
of situations. That's right. That's right. Don't
45:16
try. That's what we both said from the beginning.
45:19
Look to give, not receive. They shouldn't even
45:23
know what you do until three quarters of the
45:25
way through the conversation. So that should
45:27
alleviate all of those problems. But listen,
45:30
you can't tell them, you can't tell everybody,
45:33
look, don't sell because they feel that's what
45:35
they're there for. But you know that you can
45:38
get more with honey than vinegar. So that's where
45:41
you can look at it. So bring in this first full
45:43
circle about the future of networking. How do
45:47
you see networking evolving in the next five
45:50
to 10 years, particularly in your fields of expertise?
45:55
I do think that while I absolutely love the in
45:59
-person networking, there's really no substitute
46:01
for it. And I love going. I do think that because
46:04
of the various economics of in -person networking
46:08
and some of these conferences, I do think that
46:11
the size of some of these conferences are going
46:13
to start to go down slightly. We're seeing a
46:15
lot of economic troubles right now in politics.
46:18
And I think ultimately that's going to mean that
46:21
there's going to be lower budgets within the
46:23
next couple of years. to send people to these
46:26
physical networking events. I think budgets are
46:29
going to be cut, at least in higher ed, I'll
46:31
tell you that. There's going to be some budgets
46:33
that are going to be cut over the next couple
46:35
of years. So what does that mean for you if you
46:37
have a business that let's say caters to higher
46:39
ed? That means that you really need to focus
46:42
on that online networking piece that we talked
46:44
about earlier. How are you going to network online
46:47
so that way your customers are regularly seeing
46:51
your content? And that could be on social media.
46:54
So as an example, I publish a piece of social
46:57
media every single day, and you can publish that
46:59
same video on various platforms. You can publish
47:02
that on TikTok. You can publish that on Instagram
47:04
Reels. You can publish that on YouTube. You can
47:07
publish that on LinkedIn as a video. So you can
47:10
use that same piece of content, but just put
47:12
it out on every single social media platform
47:15
out there. So that way, again, you're building
47:17
that top of the mind awareness with your clients.
47:20
The email newsletter, I think, is going to be
47:22
really good. I think that more and more people
47:25
are now going to texts in terms of their messages.
47:28
So at least with the college students, a lot
47:30
of them are not even opening their emails and
47:32
they really are focusing on the phone, on their
47:34
smartphone. So the question is, how can we get
47:37
messages on texts to our clients? Because they're
47:40
actually reading that much faster than they're
47:42
reading emails. So I think that in terms of networking,
47:46
it's going to really, over the next couple of
47:47
years, especially within the higher ed niche,
47:50
I do think that we're going to go a lot more
47:52
to online networking opportunities. So really
47:55
start thinking about where you're networking
47:57
online, where your customers are hanging out
47:59
online. So that way you can build your business
48:02
there. Because I think over the next couple of
48:03
years, I see a lot of problems ahead in terms
48:06
of budgets within higher ed that are just not
48:08
going to allow as much of the in -person networking
48:11
as much as we would like. And so that might be
48:14
a little bit of a longer term play. I don't think
48:16
that online network or in -person networking
48:19
is going to go away. I still think it's going
48:20
to be. a thing. However, just keep in mind that
48:23
budgets are going to be cut. And that might mean
48:26
that there's going to be lower numbers of clients
48:28
at some of the regular places that you go in
48:31
order to network in person. Oh, that's great.
48:35
I can probably talk to you for another two hours
48:37
about all of this, but unfortunately we're even
48:40
a little past our time. So if somebody wants
48:44
to get hold of you for any number of reasons,
48:47
how can they do it? They can get ahold of me
48:50
just about anywhere. So anywhere on social media,
48:52
it's at Greek University. So feel free to check
48:55
us out there. You can connect with me on LinkedIn.
48:58
My name is Dr. Michael and the last name is Aylan.
49:01
That's spelled A -Y -A -L -O -N. I'd love to
49:04
connect with you on LinkedIn. So please follow
49:07
us there. If you want to send me an email, the
49:09
email address is. bookings, B -O -O -K -I -N
49:13
-G -S, at greekuniversity .org. And I'm also
49:17
an author as well. So we've published the From
49:19
Letters to Leaders book series for college students.
49:23
So you can also see those on Amazon as well.
49:26
So there's a whole bunch of different ways. But
49:28
of course, the website is always the perfect
49:30
place. That's just greekuniversity .org. And
49:33
I appreciate the time, Michael. Michael, thank
49:36
you very much for coming on the podcast. And
49:39
I hope to talk with you soon. Sounds good. Thanks
49:41
for having me. Well, hold on, folks. Don't go
49:46
anywhere. Let me just read a few of our sponsors
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-U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap,
51:03
folks. A huge thank you to our special guests
51:06
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
51:10
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
51:13
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
51:16
with us. Remember, networking isn't about being
51:20
perfect. It's about being present. So take what
51:23
you've learned today, get out there and make
51:26
some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this
51:29
episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us
51:32
a review and share it with someone who could
51:34
use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep
51:38
the conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
51:41
Spotify, YouTube or my website. Michael A. Foreman,
51:46
remember, until next time, keep practicing, keep
51:50
connecting, and keep building those relationships.
51:53
This is Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take
51:56
care and happy networking.