Latest / College Is Fine, Everything's Fine / #61 How to Brew Success: A Conversation with Marc Reede, author of The Coffee Code

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#61 How to Brew Success: A Conversation with Marc Reede, author of The Coffee Code · College Is Fine, Everything's Fine

[00:00:00] We're excited today. We have something a little bit different which I think is always a good thing. As you guys know, we do not think that psychologists are the. Holders of all things mental health and some of the things that we know are on your mind at this point in the year might be how to make those connections for an internship, a potential job.Just start to, how to buildyour Professional.self. And we came across this book called The Coffee Code , and I thought it was such a lovely how to. Very specific, very concrete, some great stories in there and learned experiences from Mark and the people he's worked with.But just a really simple guide, kind of a step-by-stepway, to make conversationsover something as simple as coffee. So we're excited tohaveMark Reed come on here and talk to us a little bit more about why.he wrote this book and how he came to know so much about these conversations. Take it away, mark.mark.Hi, Liz and Sarah. Thanks very much for that intro. So, so yeah, it's, it's a it's, it's a seven year book in [00:01:00] the making and, and it's, it's something that is effectively a career readiness guide for, what I see as 22 and 23-year-old college seniors. But I do know that the, the relate part of this is to a lot more.And, and so I'm, you know, obviously excited to, to be a part of, of your podcast and, and I appreciate being on, but it's, it's something that, that began as an idea when my kids were in their early twenties. I was the go-to dad to give those pep talks to their friends who are about to graduate college.Mm-hmm. and you know, the, you got this, you'll be fine. Don't worry. 'cause you know, I, I've had my own business for 35 plus years and, and so I just, I enjoyed giving those one-on-one talks so much that I started speaking on college campuses. And, and then over time my notes for the speeches became the book.Mm. And [00:02:00] it's exciting for, you know, especially at this time of year when, when young people are, are thinking about the next step in life or you know, the next place they work or what, what they're, they're going into.This, it's a good and an easy read how to to lower the stress level, if you It's, it's, it's an easy read. It's a fun read. It's actionable. I have a question though. Why do you think they came to you outside of 35 years in business? Right? But probably a lot of people that they knew had 35 years in, in business. Why you?Yeah, that's a very good question. It's a question that was asked of me by a, a friend of mine in New York City, Danny Meyer, who's a restaurateur, who is a, a hospitality and customer service expert who's written a book called the, you know, setting the Table. And, and Danny, when I told him about my interest in writing this book,bookhe said, mark, why you, you know, I'm, I'm a, a guy who owns 19 restaurants in, in New York City, and I've started Shake Shack [00:03:00] and, and, you know.Yes, you are this mentor to your kids', friends and, and other students, but why you? And so I went kind of deep and it's, it's funny, the, the opening of, of the book is why me? You know, thanks to this Danny question, because I realized that in my business, you know, this is my passion. The coffee coat is my passion.Helping young people to, you know, to, to get to the next step in their lives is, is what I enjoy seeing happen. My business is selling motivational speakers to major corporations and, and in that role as a lecture agent I'm, I find myself in the green room, in, in the, the weight room behind the scenes with top name talent who are effectively influencers in, in this world today.So, Mel Robbins. And, and Simon Sinek and Magic Johnson and, and others you know, who we will book for speaking opportunities. And there's a lot of downtime [00:04:00] before a speaker goes on stage. So, you know, effectively I have this one-on-one time.That is, is very valuable. Plus I'm getting to hear these speakers, you know, give their talks. And so I really look at myself as this conduit between an influencer and, and an individual who doesn't necessarily have the ability to hear some of these stories, these, these stories of inspiration, of, of motivation, you know, life hacks, you know, things I wish I knew when I was in my twenties., so that becomes the, the why me,, of the coffee code.Well, it sounds like you're well equipped to kind of share some potentially do's and don'ts. I will say, and maybe we can kind of go into this, when I entered into psychology, I was grateful. I was like, I don't have to do any of that networking kind of stuff. Right. And then I was shocked. That I really truly see this as my client population and in my own life in [00:05:00] terms of my career through grad school, how much who you knew mattered and how opportunities that like, would not end up on my doorstep unless I really put myself out there and really extended myself, put my face in front of people.. So you have some like, kind of key chapters, but I'd love to like talk maybe about this idea of kind of finding your brand and, and how to network that brand.Sure. So the coffee code really has a lot to do with this, and then we can talk about the, the relationship building. But, but effectively when I speak to young people and, and in the book I stress the importance of a coffee meeting versus an interview and a coffee meeting is.isWith somebody that you've identified on LinkedIn at a company that may be one of your target companies, a place you wanna work. Now this person you're identifying and, and reaching out to on LinkedIn to connect with is effectively [00:06:00] someone you're saying, Hey, I'd like to get some advice. I'd like to take you to copy for five minutes and a Starbucks near your office. It's a relaxed atmosphere. It's meeting with someone who will not have a job for you, but who may be so darn impressed with you after this five or 10 minute informal get together that he or she goes back to their office and says, you know what? I just met this young person who's about to graduate from NYU and we need to get her before somebody else does.else does.So that's kind of the idea behind the coffee meeting. And compare that to an interview where you're in a box for five minutesMm-hmm.and outside that door, right there is somebody just hoping you fail. Why? 'cause they're the next intervieweeMm-hmm.and it's just, you know, you wanna set yourself up for success. Not, I'm not saying don't get interviews because the fact of the [00:07:00] matter is.fact of matter isSome companies aren't going to do any accepting of, of a coffee meeting or interviewing outside of their interview process. But, but it's funny. My son went to Boston College and he had a friend who was from Cleveland, went to Boston College, and his name's Derek. And, and Derek wanted to work here in, in la in Hollywood, in the worst way.But he had no connection to whatsoever in Hollywood, at a Russian company, at an, at an agency, a talent agency. At all. So he used LinkedIn to get coffee meetings and, and what ended up happening is he got a job at Warner Brothers and then he got another job and he's kind of moved through the ranks and it's really cool to watch.But what Derek shared with me is an important hack to understand that in a city, especially like la, the cool jobs never get posted. So you're not gonna find them, you know, in, in some. Indeed website where, you know, [00:08:00] here's a great job you should go interview for, you have to find, you have to be proactive.So this is really about proactivity. And, and I think that the young people don't realize the importance of being more friendly with their professors.friendly with their professors.What I like to share with young people is, you know, when a professor shows office hours, you go meet that professor because that individual, you know, a could be an adjunct professor, which means that, that they are currently working somewhere. They, and they come to your school one day a week and and teach you.And if they're working somewhere, they working at a big company and they have their network. Okay.network.Or they're, they're full-time professors who used to work for a company, so they have major networks. Well, you go sit down with these professors and they know your work ethic. They know who you are. They know the kind of success that you want to, to have, and, and when you talk to them, you know, you're sharing with them, [00:09:00] Hey, this is the field I wanna get into.You never know. They may know three people in that field that you can meet with.right?So, so yeah, I, I just, I just think that, that you know, to say you don't have a LinkedIn profile or you don't have a lot of, of connections or, or context right now, that's okay. But I think that you, you know more people than you think you do.I was mentoring a young person on the phone last week. And and he was saying to me that, that, 'cause he had gone to law school but he wanted to go into business. Kinda like, you know, I did the same thing, but, but he was saying to me that he just can't get callbacks and he's trying to meet all these new people.And I said to him, what you don't realize is the person that you wanna meet, you've already metalready met.the person that's gonna help you the most already knows you. That person is already in your network. You just have to find that person. I think that it, it speaks to the coffee piece to it, which is [00:10:00] essentially saying. Have informal connections and take advantage of them. And coffee, of course, anytime I'm meeting somebody, it's always gonna be over a coffee.That's the first place to start. But I, I think that there is something to be said for those informal connections. I mean, I'm actually going through it now on a new city trying to expand my practice here. These are things that if you start practicing early, we will. Serve you well, and you never know who that person you spoke to, how that can come back and help you.So maybe they're not able to help you yet in your sphere, but keep keep at it and kind of keep those connections going. I also wanna speak more to what you said about the office hours piece, We've talked to people who say, you know, we just kind of dunno how to use office hours. It's really something where anyone I'm working with, regardless of the reason, office hours if they're in college is part of the conversation for a lot of different reasons.But one of 'em is at some point, letters of recommendation. Even if they can't connect you to a person that they know, which I definitely think that that is a big part of it. Formulaic letters [00:11:00] of recommendation can be read. Those can be seen through, and somebody who you've met who they have a story to tell, who talks about he proactively came, even if it was a problem that you over overcome, have overcome with them.That is a story that they can tell, that shows, I know this person. This isn't just a.Insert name, control F, find you know the name, insert, whatever kind of letter.So I love that you brought up that specifically because it is,it's kind of the secret sauce I Think of in collegeat least. At leastone or two professors out therewhoare gonna be,on your team.Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny when, when you look at, at a young person's resume and, and you see a bunch of of people listed as as their references, right? Those people are, are typically, I. Family, friends as opposed to to, to business associates. But the fact is, like you just said, Sarah, there may be something about [00:12:00] you that that family friend knows and that that family friend can share with others.You know, when, when I, when I tell a, a young person that, you know,thatlet, let's say a young person gets an interview okay. And feels that the interview went poorly, right? Well, I say to that person.to that person,First of all, you got an interview, which is unbelievable. Most people send in those request renders and they, they get nothing.You got one? Okay. That's A B, that interviewer. Well, B, you could have felt the interview went terribly. That person could have thought that they just met the, you know, the, the most qualified person they've ever met in their lives. Okay. C. That interviewer is now going to reach out to your references, the people that you listed on, on your, you know, on your resume.Well, so now your references know that you're out there working. You're, you're, you know, you're doing what you're supposed to [00:13:00] do with the references as opposed to just being a name. Like someone said, Hey, can I put your name on the resume? Yeah, go ahead. Aha. Now those people know that you're out there doing something with their name.So there's, there's a lot, you know, plus you're gaining the ability to meet with people face-to-face that face-to-face meeting and being able to share more about the brand that is you is so darn important to learn.And once you've done it a few times, you know, it's kinda like once you've done a few podcasts, you, you start to get the, the sense of, of. Telling the story, you know?. Well, first of all, I think what I heard you say is that this is gonna, our podcast is now sponsored by Shake Shack. Is that, is that what I'm hearing? Did that, did I hear that correctly?Yes. I didn't say that.Oh, oh, shoot, man. I, I, I, I musthave heard something wrong. ... You drop some big names. Let's hear some good stories.Well, you know, the, the story that, that that I really love is, is the Magic Johnson [00:14:00] story. When, when Magic was about to retire from the Lakers you know, he wanted to get into business, but, but he, he, you know, wasn't that didn't have that great of a business sense, and so he knew that he needed to reach out to others to help him.He needed advice and, and what Magic did was. Unbelievably smart. The Lakers used to play at the forum before they played at the Staple Staple Center. Magic reached out to the ticket office people at the forum, and he said, I'd like you to give me a list of all the people that sit in the court side seats at our games, at our Lakers games at the forum, Forum. and Magic took that list.Wrote handwritten notes to each of those people because he knew those were the icons of industry. Right? Those were the, the, you know, the, the movers and shakers of, of, of business, at least here in Los Angeles.Angeles,Well, I believe that half of those people responded, come on in, you know, let's, let's, let's get some advice.Go, let, let me, you know, go ahead, pick my brain. And a couple of those people are, are [00:15:00] partners of magic's right now on some of his billion dollar deals. So what I like to, to challenge a young person with is the fact that you don't have to be Magic Johnson to have a court side, because like we've just discussed, there are individuals who've known, known you for 20 years.They're your professors. There's, there's people that, that know you and know the success pattern or path that you're on right now, and they want to help you. Those people become your first mentors. You'll have many mentors. I mean, I have many mentors. I'm sure the two of you have have, you know, it doesn't matter how old you are you know, there's gonna be someone that will help you on, on your, you know, on your path.your.Right. Yeah, I think it's, I've always liked having people who've been a few years before me, about a decade before me. So, you know, I like to have somebody help me preview all the steps, but maybe that's just me.Well, yeah, I, I think Sarah, there's a story [00:16:00] in the coffee code that.that,The, the chapters in the coffee code are effectively about creating your own brand. Something I like to call me incorporated, and then finding a mentor and then building this network of, of connections, working your plan and then accepting no, and, and, you know, being turned down as part of this game.But, but the, the, over the, the umbrella of this process. Is what I like to think of as giving back. And, and it's, it's the importance of, of realizing that yes, we're all in this game to succeed. We're all in this game to, you know, buy a house, have, have, you know, whatever our level or our definition of success is, that's what we're looking to accomplish.But, but, the, one of the things that had had pushed my passion along was, was a, a cool meeting I had when my daughter got into college to play tennis a number of years ago. And, and the [00:17:00] story goes like this. I was friends at the time with the tennis star, Andy Roddick's agent.And Andy's agent had gotten my daughter and me , backstage passes, , to the Madrid, Spain Open And so here it is the day before the tournament starts, Casey and I have our passes.And it's the day before the tournament starts and there's nobody around except off in the corner. I see somebody I recognize. I cognize And it's Richard Williams, Venus and Serena's coach at the time, their, their father, but their coach at the Right. I waslike, am I, wait, am I hearing that right?Richard, the king, king Richard is over in the corner of the, of this room.And so, you know, they're from la. We're from La Heck. This is why Casey's in tennis in the first place. Richard, I'm Mark Reed. This is my daughter Casey. Casey just got into college to play tennis and your daughters were the reason she took up tennis in the first place. He says, hang on one second. He says, Venus, Serena.So all of a sudden, the top of these stairs, here's these two girls. Yes [00:18:00] daddy, girls, come down here. I want you to meet somebody. But the story doesn't end there because the next night, Venus had her opening round match against a girl from Madrid. And remember, we're in Madrid.Madrid,anybody rooting for Venus Williams in that stadium except us.We're sitting up there up in the rafters. Great serve, nice shot, right? Venus beats the girl in straight sets. Casey knows that, that Venus is about to leave, so she, as everyone's leaving the stadium, Casey goes down against the grain to get as close as she can to congratulate her new friend. But I'm watching Venus and she's zipping up her bag and she looks up at me and she mouths the words.Where's Casey? Well, I, I'm, I'm just floored right now As I was then, it was unbelievable. So I point, I point to where I, I knew Casey was right. So I see Venus get up and run over to where I've just pointed. Now five minutes go by. It seems like an eternity, right?[00:19:00] like,All of a sudden, here comes Casey walking, coming up the stairs, tears coming down, her eyes holding Venus's tournament towel that you can't buy. Yeah, get out. So now we're leaving the stadium and once again we see Richard Williams and I tell him the story I just told you. He takes Casey and me in a group hug and he says, you know something, mark, if you had told me that my daughter just played a great match.I would've said, thank you very much. That's her job. That's why she works out so hard every single day. But he says, I taught my girls a long time ago to touch one person in life. Show them you care. Share your gift and look what can happen.what was happenAnd, and you know, that's, that's a story that, that I love to share with young people because it, it kind of puts all of this into perspective a. B, it teaches young people the value of [00:20:00] storytelling, of being a storyteller because in this life, in this world, in this success path, sorry, you need to be able to be a great storyteller you need something where a person interviewing you or a, you know, a potential business partner, or whoever it may be, remembers you by.It doesn't have to be as long a story as the Venus and Casey story. It can be, you know, something about your travels or, or a job you had or something that, that you did in your life. I love this story for a couple of reasons. One, I think that. You know, this generation is, I believe has a view that a lot of people are hostile that, like, that there aren't really a lot of people that wanna help them. Right. And I think that, I always remind a lot of kids I work with, I'm like, they're, everyone's been in your shoes before.? Like trying to find that first job, reaching for a dream, right? And that you'll never encounter those people unless you. You know, walk [00:21:00] down there and scream out to them or approach them, ask for a cup of coffee, whatever it might be that people, inherently there are people that are wanting to help and really can kind of do that location perspective of like, I was there at one point.So, and that can be hard, I think, to remember because of rejection. The sensitivity to rejection and accepting no is a really, I think it's a skill. Like, how do you kind of persevere in the face of rejection? So you talk a little bit about this in the book about how, how to accept that it's inevitable, right? And, and how to use it potentially to your advantage or part of your plan.You know, we all use rejection in different ways. Yes, there's a tendency to, to get bummed out and, and, you know, mope around and, and, and whatever. But while, while you're bummed out and moping around the, the competitor for that same job is figuring out a way how, how [00:22:00] to get back in. , when you're on this path, and, you feel like you've been punched in the stomach. You have to pause. You have to pause you, you have to get back and regroup, and when you're ready, come back into the game.You know, the, the, the, the fact is that young people right now, they have access and knowledge of so much technology and so many. You know, the, the, the inner workings of so many things that, that a lot of individuals in the workplace currently don't. So young people are winning this game, young people applying for jobs or winning this game because they know a lot of stuff that the interviewers don't. And, and I think that that a, you know, a, a college senior, a a, a recent grad, a grad student needs to, to realize that it's kind of. Advantage you. It's, it's not advantage them. You have a voice [00:23:00] so it's, it's important for, students , that are looking , for jobs, looking for whatever, that, you know, they are a lot more important than they think.That they are sometimes. So it's, it's not worth, It's it's not worth getting upset if you don't get interviewed. If you get turned down, if something happens, you just learn from that. And then, you know, how, how can we, how can we learn again from that? I mean, if you, talk to just successful entrepreneurs, they're all gonna tell you that, that, you know, it didn't just happen 'cause Chucks, if it just happened, everybody be doing it.Right. It, it's gotta, it's gotta take figuring out how to get there. There's, there's a story that, that that Mark Randolph tells. He was the co-founder of Netflix, and, and, and Mark's story is that he was a, a senior at a college in upstate New York and there was an ad agency in New York City that he really wanted to work at.really.So it was, he had gone through, you know, all these [00:24:00] levels of, of, of interview with, with with this company up in, at his school. And they flew four people down to New York for this final set of interviews. Okay. Mm-hmm. And he went through and he felt like he'd almost met everyone at the company,everyone in the company,gets back home, gets a note from these people saying Hi, you didn't get the job.hi, you didn'tHe's like, what the heck? Are you kidding? I, I did exactly what they wanted. I was the perfect, you know, the perfect fit for them. So he sends an email and he says, hi, I was the perfect fit. I really wanna work at your company. What did I do wrong? How can I get better? They said, you know what? Come back down to New York.I wanna talk to you. And they gave 'em the job. Gave 'em the job.They didn't give it to anybody.They wanted to wait to see who wanted it. The worst.Who was willing to say, time out. I should be your person. So, you know, so there you have [00:25:00] rejection in in the fullest. Think thatit's been so great to hear all these points sort of wrapped up in some good stories. Well thank you Mark, for being on. I really, I mean, I think ultimately I can see why you are getting hired to give talks on college campuses. I hope some of the college students that I work with have the opportunity to hear you. If I could take, like, one takeaway that I really value from everything that you talked about was just.Your mindset in terms of how college students can approach this. Like, there's so much like energy, curiosity, intention and even in that last piece of what you were talking about, right? That, and it's a lot of what we do clinically as psychologists, right? That how you react to things really is going to indicate.How you're gonna change your behavior or not, right? So I am really excited. I mean, this has been like a long time coming. College students have asked us to have an episode around career readiness, and I know a lot of them are navigating all this with a compass that doesn't work. So I hope this [00:26:00] really helps steer them in a good direction., I appreciate it. Thanks you guys. Thanks for having me.