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Boxing Podcast:Floyd Schofield Wins Title, Mason or Zepeda Next? · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_00: What's up, everybody?
0:02
SPEAKER_00: I was hoping that I had a delay because I was hitting a big sip of coffee.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm on with the editor-in-chief of FightsATW.com, a place where I write every week.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: He's also an American hero.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: He served this country,
0:14
SPEAKER_00: and he's someone we should always And Dakota,
0:17
SPEAKER_00: fashionably late, you know, he's got his hat on and he's got a background.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, tell us about you.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: Tell you about me.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I got half a voice.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: I got a cough drop in, and I'm ready to fucking talk boxing.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: Abe, it's nice to meet you finally.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Abe's the guy.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so,
0:51
SPEAKER_00: and yesterday,
0:52
SPEAKER_00: fun fact,
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Dakota sounded like Kermit the Frog,
0:54
SPEAKER_02: and we loved
0:55
SPEAKER_02: that, so that was really neat.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it wasn't great for podcasting.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: No, it was not great for podcasting, but here's something that is great for podcasting.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Today we are going to talk about a lot of subjects,
1:09
SPEAKER_00: but I wanted to start with my rant about kind of my general tenor
1:16
SPEAKER_00: and feeling around this idea that I see with a lot of prospects turning
1:24
SPEAKER_00: into champions and what I mean by that and I do these monologues Abe so bear with me
1:29
SPEAKER_00: but it feels as though we're running into an era
1:32
SPEAKER_00: where we have prospect champions young fighters who used
1:38
SPEAKER_00: to be active are now inactive and Other things outside of the fighting are
1:44
SPEAKER_00: the storyline.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: For Schofield,
1:46
SPEAKER_00: there's this dad,
1:47
SPEAKER_00: elements of Earl Woods,
1:49
SPEAKER_00: but then there's weird elements where he runs his social media.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: And then kind of this week,
1:54
SPEAKER_00: he was the non-issue, like, hey, man,
1:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm just in the background, but the majority of Schofield's story has been that.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: With body, it's like you know what you get.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: There's a little bit of Arturo Gatti.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: I see a little bit of Marquez.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: My guy Jason Langendorf compared him to a Greco-Roman wrestler in terms
2:11
SPEAKER_00: of his physical toughness.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: But there is a limitation with him.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: And it was refreshing to see a fight like this.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: And I'll stop my monologue shortly.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: But it also feels like we need these type of fights to make sense of the sport.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Because a fighter like Floyd Schofield got himself to a title fight.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: And I, for one,
2:31
SPEAKER_00: as a hardcore fanatic,
2:32
SPEAKER_00: have no idea where he ranks in world-class boxing, even with a belt.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to throw it to Abe first.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
2:41
SPEAKER_01: Listen, it's funny that we got here the way we did with Scofield.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Because he had the Shakur fight, and then he got sick or whatever the case may be.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we get here if he takes that fight.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: If he takes that Shakur fight and probably loses 12 rounds to zero,
3:04
SPEAKER_01: do we get to this body fight?
3:06
SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: And I'm still like this whole thing with the dad just kind of.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me because you're a dad.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I think you're the only one qualified to speak on this subject.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: It's too much.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: It's too much.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: You know how they say a helicopter mom or whatever.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: He's a helicopter dad.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: Like he is.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: The Schofield is a grown man like he needs to be able to do his own thing.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: If you don't think that he is mature enough to do that,
3:38
SPEAKER_01: then why is he even trying to be at a certain level of of being a celebrity or
3:46
SPEAKER_01: or fighter or star or whatever the case may be?
3:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't like it.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: I think he's setting his son up for a situation where if he's not around
3:57
SPEAKER_01: for one reason or another,
3:58
SPEAKER_01: he might say something reckless and it might ruin whatever situation he's built up.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: But right now,
4:09
SPEAKER_01: I guess it's okay that he's a champion, but I don't know how far he goes.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: Because he won a vacant title,
4:20
SPEAKER_01: but the fight that he missed out on that he said he wanted could have very well
4:26
SPEAKER_01: or would have very well derailed him into a different trajectory.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: And that's why we brought you on, Abe.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Those are good points.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, jump in here and make sense of the situation.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: Well,
4:37
SPEAKER_02: I think in terms of like Schofield being a prospect and a champion at the same time,
4:43
SPEAKER_02: You know,
4:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty sure he got a belt two years ago off of Rene Tellez-Giron,
4:48
SPEAKER_02: who's a hell of a fighter.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: But I don't know that a win over that guy makes you one of the best in the division.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: And Giron's going to fight Justin Pauldo, I think, pretty soon.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: That's going to be a hell of a fight.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: So I'm not slighting that guy.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: But when your best wins are that, Tevin Farmer and Body, I think he's past prospect.
5:05
SPEAKER_02: I think he's in contender with those quality of wins.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: But I don't know if Like as a whole, having a belt means what it used to mean.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes the guys that have the belts,
5:17
SPEAKER_02: you know,
5:17
SPEAKER_02: maybe didn't take the same kind of path that we're used to seeing,
5:21
SPEAKER_02: you know, in the modern era.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: But then the other thing with Schofield too is coming up, he's a power puncher.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: He does the prospect thing as a puncher.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: And now in this fight and some bits of the Telly's Garand fight,
5:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, he has to use his legs.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: And one thing, I'm curious to get Dakota's, I'm going to throw it back to you, Dakota.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: It feels like his leg movement is athletic,
5:45
SPEAKER_00: but excessive to the point where it might not be sustainable against a certain level
5:49
SPEAKER_00: of guy.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: And to me,
5:51
SPEAKER_00: it feels like,
5:51
SPEAKER_00: and I was saying this with you in a secret operative yesterday morning.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: It almost feels like when he fights a high-level fighter,
6:00
SPEAKER_00: he's not going to be able to do what he does because I don't know if he can,
6:05
SPEAKER_00: and this isn't an insult,
6:06
SPEAKER_00: but it feels like he's an athlete reacting,
6:09
SPEAKER_00: and I'm not sure if he can think with someone and react.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: It felt like he just hit this thing where he was like, okay,
6:14
SPEAKER_00: this is what I'm going to do in the moment,
6:16
SPEAKER_00: switch southpaw and beat body, but I'm not, I don't know.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: It's a little one-track, Lukie.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: I think that's what you're getting at is like,
6:25
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't know those moments to hold his ground.
6:27
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't know those moments when to cut an angle.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: When he gets on that bike like that, he's just kind of always on the go.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: And so when body would throw, it was like he would land.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he throws seven punches around.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: But when he would throw,
6:41
SPEAKER_02: he would land because Schofield was on the move and his feet weren't set.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: And you could see it would hurt him basically every time he landed clean.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, I think this real quick to add to the pops debate.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I'm not a dad, but I feel like Now you look like a dad.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: That's very nice of you.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: But I'm not.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: And there I think now more than ever, there's more of those dad relationships.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: And you can see how many of them are like infantilizing,
7:09
SPEAKER_02: whether it's or or just like to present,
7:14
SPEAKER_02: you know,
7:14
SPEAKER_02: whether it's Tia Fimo's dad or it's Schofield's dad,
7:17
SPEAKER_02: you know,
7:18
SPEAKER_02: you I just think that that's such a recurring theme right now,
7:23
SPEAKER_02: and I don't really understand these guys' inability to let loose on
7:27
SPEAKER_02: the fucking leash a little bit.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: Hey, what else are you thinking about from this fight?
7:33
SPEAKER_01: You know,
7:33
SPEAKER_01: it's funny that everything that Dakota said plays into how much control
7:39
SPEAKER_01: the father has over Floyd Schofield in general, right?
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Because I was talking outside of the ring.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: Dakota's talking inside of the ring that he can't almost think for himself type of thing.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: But doesn't that relate to his father having so much control of his life?
7:58
SPEAKER_01: That way he can't think for himself in or out of the ring because his father is
8:04
SPEAKER_01: the center of attention and controlling everything.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: So I feel like the father's role right now is controlling more than what You know,
8:14
SPEAKER_01: people can see and it's also affecting Floyd more than what he thinks it is.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: Also, I think of like an example of it working is Nakata or I'm sorry,
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Inouye's dad, where it's like I don't see Inouye second guessing his own judgment.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: So there's instances where it works,
8:36
SPEAKER_02: but especially here in the States,
8:37
SPEAKER_02: bro, it's like all these dads want to be the fucking star of the show.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: And it's just like you could see these kids like questioning themselves,
8:43
SPEAKER_00: you know, they get dates back to the Mayweather family.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: And that was such or even like
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Shane and his dad.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know how many boxing fans still exist from that era when I talk to people.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: But do we want to talk about this fight at all?
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Just the X's and O's, both getting knocked down.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Schofield showing a lot of toughness, figuring out a way to win.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Body kind of not being as active as he could have been,
9:17
SPEAKER_00: but showing that he wasn't just a one-trick pony, that he'll give guys tough things.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Either one of you want to chime in about it?
9:26
SPEAKER_02: I'll just set the table real quick.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: You know,
9:27
SPEAKER_02: I thought that when you're fighting body,
9:30
SPEAKER_02: obviously he doesn't throw a lot,
9:31
SPEAKER_02: but you can see when he lands, it has an impact on everybody he fights.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: And so there's an element of it where like you're walking a tightrope.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: I thought a kid, the kid did a pretty good job walking the tightrope for the most part.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: He got caught, he got hurt, but he was resilient.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: He stuck to his game plan.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: I think overall it was a good performance.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: I would have liked to have seen With how much air, body,
9:55
SPEAKER_02: and space body gives you to work,
9:57
SPEAKER_02: I would have liked to have seen him assert himself offensively just
10:00
SPEAKER_02: a little bit more.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: And I think it would have actually prevented him getting clipped and buzzed,
10:06
SPEAKER_02: you know, the couple of times that he did.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Because you could see when he jumped on body early and the volume was there,
10:12
SPEAKER_02: he didn't really know how to handle that.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: I also think that would those missed calls by the referee,
10:21
SPEAKER_01: because I think they were,
10:22
SPEAKER_01: would they have changed how the fight played out later on?
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Because you have somebody as young as Schofield,
10:32
SPEAKER_01: you know,
10:34
SPEAKER_01: I know that the one that was counted should have not been counted,
10:38
SPEAKER_01: but there was like one or two that should have been counted.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: There was one after the bell, to be fair.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: There was one where I think it was like a boom boom, but he caught him after the bell.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: But it was two knockdowns, right?
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was two knockdowns.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Him being young and how that could have affected how he fought later on is,
11:00
SPEAKER_01: I think,
11:01
SPEAKER_01: more of the story because that could have changed his whole thinking moving forward.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: And what if that would have forced him to engage more on the inside,
11:14
SPEAKER_01: which would have played to Bodhi's game plan and do that?
11:18
SPEAKER_01: And he could have...
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Potentially put himself even more vulnerable.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when you miss calls like that, that can change.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: That can change how the fight looks later on.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: We got a fire emoji from the Real Boxing Channel and our guy, Mankey Crazy.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: What up, Mankey?
11:35
SPEAKER_00: He says,
11:35
SPEAKER_00: you want Schofield to ignore his corner and get knocked
11:38
SPEAKER_00: the F out like Ricardo Sandoval?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't think all of us are saying that.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: I think it's more so...
11:45
SPEAKER_00: It feels at times,
11:46
SPEAKER_00: at least to me,
11:47
SPEAKER_00: like his father learned boxing from other boxing trainers and that they're both kind
11:53
SPEAKER_00: of going through the journey together.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think Dakota brought up that like,
11:57
SPEAKER_00: you know,
11:58
SPEAKER_00: whatever his dad says,
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Schofield in the ring does,
12:02
SPEAKER_00: you know, and it doesn't seem like there's an adaptation as of now to his style.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Whatever he's told to do, he does.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: He's kind of like a soldier is how I interpret Dakota's comments.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean,
12:17
SPEAKER_01: I see what Mankey Crazy is saying, but,
12:23
SPEAKER_01: you know,
12:24
SPEAKER_01: at the end of the day,
12:25
SPEAKER_01: there's going to be a point in his career where he's going to have to do
12:31
SPEAKER_01: and make decisions himself at certain points.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: And right now, I don't think he's ready to do that.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: And now that he's a champion,
12:39
SPEAKER_01: he has no choice but to have to do that in the fights coming up
12:44
SPEAKER_01: because they're going to be really hard.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: At the championship level, too,
12:48
SPEAKER_02: just real quick, Lukie,
12:49
SPEAKER_02: it's like when you get to the top, right,
12:51
SPEAKER_02: and he's got a belt now,
12:52
SPEAKER_02: so you have to,
12:53
SPEAKER_02: whether it has the same value or not, you got to address him as such.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: It's like the trainer is almost like,
13:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm not trying to diminish the trainer,
13:01
SPEAKER_02: but in the corner, they're like a consultant.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know what you're doing, but here's what I'm seeing.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: So you could get another angle on it.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: You know,
13:09
SPEAKER_02: I think about like,
13:11
SPEAKER_02: you know,
13:11
SPEAKER_02: shock and Bobby, you know, it's not like you do what I say or you're fucking up.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: It's not that vibe.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: And with the dads, it's that vibe.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: That's a great observation, Dakota.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a Fortune 500 CEO.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: You need to do this right now.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: But there is that disciplinary...
13:32
SPEAKER_02: Sean Porter is 35 years old fighting Terrence Crawford and his dad talks
13:36
SPEAKER_02: to him like he's a fucking asshole.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's the best recipe to me.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it just varies.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: Some people are more responsive to that than others.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: I think it just varies on the style, right?
13:52
SPEAKER_01: But I also think that Floyd Schofield's father is not going to do...
13:59
SPEAKER_01: What let's say the Haney's do where Bill Haney will take Devon to different places
14:05
SPEAKER_01: and get different inputs from different folks.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: And I don't think he's going to do that.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: And that might be the difference or that might be what separates him from going up
14:15
SPEAKER_01: to the next level.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll just say my piece because Abe, you're very smart and you got me thinking.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: I think Bill Haney is like a movie director and he collabs with like the set design
14:26
SPEAKER_00: and the film guys.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: And Bill has this great ability of being like, OK, they're doing something over here.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: You work with Devin,
14:34
SPEAKER_00: but you're not going to get to run things,
14:36
SPEAKER_00: but you get to get this look and maybe for one project we're going to collab
14:40
SPEAKER_00: and now you know what that look is.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Where my fear is always when you have a dad that hasn't raised or worked
14:47
SPEAKER_00: with other fighters and And they start to go private.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like, why are they private and not working with everybody?
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Because I come from schooling and teaching.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Not to say this,
14:57
SPEAKER_00: but sometimes the teachers that weren't the strongest teachers wanted to teach
15:01
SPEAKER_00: in private.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: They didn't want people to watch them,
15:03
SPEAKER_00: whereas the strongest teachers didn't care who was in the room.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: So my mind always goes back to that is when it's people
15:10
SPEAKER_00: that don't always have experience with I go there.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to switch the topic slightly.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: Mankey Crazy, once again, killing it in the chat.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: He says, is Schofield chitty?
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's going to go into our next conversation, so we're going to answer that.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: But Abdullah Mason,
15:27
SPEAKER_00: Williams Apeeta, and various other fighters are now on the table for Schofield.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: I wrote an article for Fights ATW about mythical matchups and people
15:36
SPEAKER_00: that could possibly fight Mason, but who do you guys want to see him in with next?
15:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like my first choice right off rip, I think would be Andy Cruz.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: I think that that's a good levels fight where we can maybe see some of that IQ
15:53
SPEAKER_02: that we're not seeing.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: And I think some of that, too, is just because body is not the highest IQ fighter.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: He really is like an Arthur Abraham high guard.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: I throw I land a hard shot when I see that it's open and I know I'm going to land it.
16:07
SPEAKER_02: I'd like to see him kind of test his metal against a guy like Andy Cruz,
16:12
SPEAKER_02: make him think a little more.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: And, you know,
16:15
SPEAKER_02: in terms of him being chinny,
16:16
SPEAKER_02: I don't think Andy is like the biggest puncher, but he's really sharp.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: He's accurate.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: I think we'll get some answers on that.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: I think body hits really hard.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: And I think that the kid was getting hit clean.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: I'd be more worried about how clean he's getting caught than how his chin is.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and listen,
16:35
SPEAKER_01: for me, a fight that I would want to see that likely not happen is the Ryo fight.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: I think that Ryo versus Schofield is a fight
16:48
SPEAKER_01: that will really test what Manky Crazy is saying, whether he's chinny or not.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: I think Ryo will test that.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: But it's just a fight that likely won't happen.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: But if it does, you know, we would learn a lot from Schofield if that were to happen.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: But with that being said,
17:09
SPEAKER_01: I think that Abdullah Mason fight would be the one that I would want to see next or
17:15
SPEAKER_01: the Zapata one.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: But if I had my choice, it would be the Ryo fight.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to zag.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to say my two choices are Justin Paldo if he beats Telliz Garan
17:26
SPEAKER_00: because it's a Texas fight.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: That's a great fucking fight.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: That's a good Texas fight.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Or Joshua Pagan who's really kind of built himself as a contender because
17:35
SPEAKER_00: if Schofield's going to really kind of call for these big fights,
17:38
SPEAKER_00: I kind of think he needs to knock off some contenders.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: He's kind of in that vulnerable spot to me.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, you mentioned Pagan, right?
17:47
SPEAKER_01: The way they could really sell that would be
17:49
SPEAKER_01: the Puerto Rico versus Dominican Republic because there's that rivalry,
17:54
SPEAKER_01: that next door rivalry.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: And if you do it in PR, you know, you might get a really good crowd for that one.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's love.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you what, too.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't hate to see Albert Bell get a crack at him.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: I think that's a real 50-50 fight right there.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but coming off a loss, we need to stop normalizing.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: We'll get to that later in the show,
18:13
SPEAKER_00: but we need to stop normalizing guys losing and then getting into title fights.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: We should at least get one bounce back win, even if it's just like go home and buy the money.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: I just don't like this idea of normalizing a loss into a title fight.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's go into what people have been talking about.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: Just real quick, Luke, I don't think all losses are created equal.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: Andy Cruz loses a good, close decision to Murataya.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't diminish my desire to see him in Schofield or him in another top guy.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, listen...
19:01
SPEAKER_01: Coming off a layoff,
19:04
SPEAKER_01: I feel like Collazo might have been really motivated to take this specific fight
19:11
SPEAKER_01: because of that.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: And now that Sandoval lost, man, there goes that fight.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that Collazo fights Mendoza.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm not so sure that he does that.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: I think he wanted the Sandoval fight for a specific reason.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Sandoval...
19:31
SPEAKER_01: He just fell into the trap.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, he fell into the trap, felt like he didn't fight his fight.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
19:41
SPEAKER_01: he thought that he could just bulldoze this guy and it would be a wrap,
19:45
SPEAKER_01: you know, early or whatever.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: And it ended up not being that case.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Man, and after that first knockdown, he just didn't, he never reset.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: His pride took such a big hit and his ego that he wanted to try to regain that back
20:02
SPEAKER_01: in one punch and it worked against him.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: I also don't think he ever recovered from getting buzzed the first time.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: It just felt like he was playing catch-up,
20:10
SPEAKER_02: had some good moments,
20:12
SPEAKER_02: started to make Mendoza miss a little bit,
20:15
SPEAKER_02: and then the second he'd get caught again,
20:16
SPEAKER_02: it was like he just couldn't take the power.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: I think you're right.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: He saw a guy.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: He's coming off a knockout loss.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: He's moving up in weight, but the problem is he's like 5'9".
20:26
SPEAKER_02: He's built like Junto Nakatani, and he was getting ready to fight like this little jockey.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: And it's like a not the same look at all.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: I was saying that, Lukie, we're on the phone.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you could fucking hear me because I couldn't talk.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: But I kind of feel for the guy.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: He had multiple fights get canceled or changed or whatever.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: He's a hell of a fighter.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: He hasn't fought in 15 months.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: He gets this late replacement that has like nothing to do with what he was prepping
20:52
SPEAKER_02: for, which was probably lower risk, high reward.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: I kind of just feel like the kid got the shit end of the stick, but...
21:00
SPEAKER_02: Shout out to Sergio Mendoza because he sees the opportunity, man.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: He sees the moment.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: I don't know who the tie guy was that knocked him out, but he must be a hell of a fighter.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: He's a real good fighter, bro.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: He's a real good fighter.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like the only thing I'll add to this
21:14
SPEAKER_00: because you guys basically said my opinions was I feel like Mendoza wasn't sure he
21:19
SPEAKER_00: could win the fight early.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: And then he almost had like get off me death punches in the beginning.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: And then he hurt Sandoval and like a look on his face like, OK, I can win this.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: And like it was one of those fights where it's like he kind of walked himself into a win.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: And I think the problem with Sandoval is Sandoval is kind of like Schofield.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: In the sense he can do two different things.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: He can come forward and box, but he can't really like bluff you and mix it up.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: He's either going to be boxing all the way or coming forward all the way.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: There's like kind of no wiggle to his game.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: And I felt like that was exposed,
21:57
SPEAKER_00: not just the size, but like the lack of variety and kind of like the...
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Whatever his game plan is,
22:04
SPEAKER_00: it's not going to really change on the fly as maybe as much as others.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: And how adaptable can you be if you don't fight for a year and a half?
22:11
SPEAKER_02: There's going to be at least three rounds where you're getting your feet
22:15
SPEAKER_02: under you again, and he gets hurt during that time period.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm not making an excuse for him,
22:19
SPEAKER_02: but there is a reality to the fact that him, Schofield, what do they have in common?
22:24
SPEAKER_02: They don't fucking fight, and then they get caught, and they get hurt.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to tell you this.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, Lukie, for interrupting.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: I think that first body shot from Mendoza is what started this whole avalanche
22:39
SPEAKER_01: of punches and everything else from him, which led to the knockdowns.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: The second thing I want to say, hey,
22:51
SPEAKER_01: we got to give a little bit of heat to the matchmaker,
22:54
SPEAKER_01: O Razo, over at Golden Boy, because guess what?
22:58
SPEAKER_01: That one is on him.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: He's the one,
23:00
SPEAKER_01: you know, I mean,
23:01
SPEAKER_01: like him or whoever is in charge of doing that,
23:04
SPEAKER_01: like they got to take some heat for this one
23:06
SPEAKER_01: because obviously they didn't scout this well enough.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: And then the third thing that I want to say is my shout out to my guy,
23:14
SPEAKER_01: Liam O'Brien in Australia.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: He spoke with the Thai guys trainer on fight night after the fight.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: He said that.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: That he wasn't surprised that Mendoza won and that he's strong and
23:28
SPEAKER_01: a good boxer is what he mentioned.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: He said that they're very happy for Mendoza's team.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: I always believed they would be world champions and today they've proven
23:36
SPEAKER_01: that they are the real deal.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: So that's that.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: That's a good get.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, but they probably also understood the challenge they were up against.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure that Sandoval really understood.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: In the chat, Pagan is not ranked by the WBA.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: And Ricardo is an imbecile, like Peirce O'Leary is a strong opinion being thrown out there.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean,
24:00
SPEAKER_00: we've had some maybe speculation reports circulated to us amongst industry insiders
24:06
SPEAKER_00: that potentially this was more so from Sandoval's team
24:10
SPEAKER_00: that they chose this opponent.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: So, you know,
24:15
SPEAKER_00: I think this is one of those moments where it's like you try to stay on
24:18
SPEAKER_00: a fight card, but you needed somebody...
24:21
SPEAKER_00: Who matched the opponent you were fighting.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that he's an imbecile.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: I think he's a competitor and he sees a guy.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, he's coming off a loss.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm the best in the division.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: What do I give a fuck?
24:32
SPEAKER_02: But you have to have a team around you that is putting you in the best position
24:37
SPEAKER_02: and not fighting for a year and a half and then fighting
24:39
SPEAKER_02: a guy that's six inches taller than the guy you were going
24:42
SPEAKER_02: to fight is just like that's not being put in the
24:45
SPEAKER_00: best position.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: And he's a puncher.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: And he's a huge puncher.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: I think he's a real puncher.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: The other big thing... Oh, go ahead, A.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: No, I was going to say, also,
24:54
SPEAKER_01: I want to say that,
24:55
SPEAKER_01: yeah, it could have been his team that picked the guy, but ultimately...
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Razo is the matchmaker, right?
25:05
SPEAKER_01: So just like in a company where if somebody in the company does something wrong
25:12
SPEAKER_01: and it's on the president's watch, like that's on him.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: So he's got to take a little bit of that responsibility
25:18
SPEAKER_01: because ultimately that's his wheelhouse.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: So he's got to get a little bit of that heat regardless if he was making
25:25
SPEAKER_01: the final decision or not.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Very, very true, Abe.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Now let's talk about a subject I really want to talk about.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: You met his jeweler at his last fight.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Jamal Harvey gets a knockout.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Just continues to look impressive.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: I know there's been some backlash.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Some people think, oh, is he big enough or whatever?
25:48
SPEAKER_00: But I mean...
25:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm biased, right?
25:51
SPEAKER_00: I've known Jamal a long time.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: You've known Jamal a long time.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: But he's doing about as good as you can do for anyone in this position, right?
25:59
SPEAKER_00: His pro debut was a big deal.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: He fights on Jake Paul, Anthony Joshua.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: He fights at MSG.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: He's supposed to be an undercard fighter on that TikTok card that you went to, Abe.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: Gets elevated to co-main event.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: And now he's on this card, sensational knockout.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Honestly can't get better opposition than he's facing.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: He's trying to get better, but he's a high-risk, low-reward fighter.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: To me, the thing about Jamal is it's not just that he hits hard.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: It's that his feet and his hands move together and they're so fast.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: And I don't usually see boxers that I feel like could play football or other sports.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And Jamal is like an athlete that could play traditional American sports.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: And it just seems like guys at this level...
26:45
SPEAKER_00: It's not just that they can't think with him,
26:47
SPEAKER_00: they just can't move like him and he's able to think.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: What was your thought, Abe?
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that what people are,
26:56
SPEAKER_01: what people quickly do these days is that when they see a guy with that type
27:02
SPEAKER_01: of talent and they see what he does,
27:06
SPEAKER_01: they almost assume that he was supposed to do that already.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: But what I would say is,
27:12
SPEAKER_01: That a lot of guys that are put in position with guys,
27:16
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:16
SPEAKER_01: specific opponents at a certain point of their careers,
27:19
SPEAKER_01: they don't always do what Jamal has been doing.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: And we just kind of be like, oh, OK, you know, it's a learning lesson experience thing.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's kind of like both things.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: But with Jamal, he is really making this thing look easy.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: And he is he he's almost it's almost like in baseball when when guys start hitting
27:42
SPEAKER_01: the ball really frequent and hard.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: They say that they see the ball like a beach ball.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: I think that with Jamal,
27:49
SPEAKER_01: he's just he's seen so much of what's happening before it's happening
27:54
SPEAKER_01: that people are overlooking that.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think he's fantastic, bro.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: But I think it's also funny you say high risk, low reward.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: I think like not even that long ago, he would have been high risk, high reward.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: Because if you're just talking purely athletically,
28:12
SPEAKER_02: you beat a Olympic,
28:13
SPEAKER_02: you know, amateur standout, you kind of jumped the line yourself.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: And there was a time where there would have been, I would think more guys that would want that.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
28:23
SPEAKER_02: So when you say, oh, it's hard for him to find opponents, that's like almost surprising to me.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: I have to like remember that things are changing.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, it's like and I think he's also looking so good.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: There's guys that aren't confident anymore.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, you got I think we have a lot of guys who are halfway in, halfway out of boxing.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, they they want to kind of do it, but they don't want to fully get a job.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: So they're cool boys.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: They're cool boys.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: A lot of cool boys out there.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: A lot of goofy boys, a lot of cool boys.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think that Jamal is kind of exposing who has the motivations of being
29:01
SPEAKER_00: a world champion because he's willing to step in there with top guys
29:06
SPEAKER_00: and he doesn't give an F.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: And quite frankly,
29:10
SPEAKER_00: right now, I've heard criticism, oh, he needs to fight better people.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is quite honestly the best people he can fight.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: And this is the thing.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: This is where this is where like sanctioning bodies come into play.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: And I think that they would help more than hurt a guy like Jamal Harvey
29:34
SPEAKER_01: because you start ranking them in top 15, top 10.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: And they're going to have to face him.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you want to advance, you got to face this guy.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: But who's he fighting to get himself?
29:49
SPEAKER_02: That's my concern.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this guy's 19-2.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not like he's a bad fighter.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: There's not many guys that enter a contest with a pretty developed record.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: This is about a 10-10.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Fight fighter record, you know?
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're going to have to maybe overpay like a former champion or something in order
30:13
SPEAKER_01: to get somebody like that in the ring and then,
30:17
SPEAKER_01: you know,
30:19
SPEAKER_01: have the performance that we know that he can have for them to shoot him up.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: OK, well, let's just keep it moving.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: I have some new the rest of the undercard.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: I've got news and notes on the undercard.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Let's just raise your hand when you have an opinion.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Beto Duran gave me a shout out.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: That was really cool for the Ace of Stevens.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: I actually DM'd him and said, thank you.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: You made my mom happy.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: That really made my mom happy.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: But not a good night for my Ace of Stevens.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: He did an interview with me on fight day.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: And then lost.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: Is that the Lukie curse?
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Christian Williams trained by Kenny Sims Sr. and someone I wasn't as familiar with.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: I know one of the trainers...
31:04
SPEAKER_00: I think his name is Mark Cheers came into Stockton and had a B-side opponent that won.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: So whenever I see him in a corner, I go, oh, Mark Cheers has won in the wrong corner.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: What did we think of Asa Stevens' loss?
31:18
SPEAKER_00: He's undefeated or was undefeated Golden Boy Prospect losing to Christian Williams
31:23
SPEAKER_00: in a somewhat okay fight.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'll just
31:30
SPEAKER_01: go ahead.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: No, no, go ahead.
31:32
SPEAKER_02: I just didn't see the activity, bro.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: I saw the IQ.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: I thought he won some of the early rounds,
31:36
SPEAKER_02: and he just got out-hustled by a guy that wanted it more.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: I wasn't overly impressed with, what was it, Williams?
31:45
SPEAKER_02: He didn't blow my mind with anything he was doing,
31:47
SPEAKER_02: but he just had a little more tenacity,
31:50
SPEAKER_02: and Stevens didn't,
31:51
SPEAKER_02: even though it looked like he had the better skills,
31:53
SPEAKER_02: he didn't look ready to raise that intensity level.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: I think with Asa...
32:01
SPEAKER_01: And correct me if I'm wrong, but he's still holding his training camps in Hawaii, right?
32:08
SPEAKER_00: In 2024, he actually moved to Las Vegas.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: So he's actually moved from Hawaii to Las Vegas.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay, but he was spending a lot of time.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: He was going back and forth, if I'm not mistaken, a lot.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, like if...
32:23
SPEAKER_01: It just feels like he hasn't been around enough and active enough
32:31
SPEAKER_01: to be
32:32
SPEAKER_01: as competitive as he should be.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's the back and forth,
32:39
SPEAKER_01: if it's him just not putting in the time and the effort that he needs to in order
32:46
SPEAKER_01: to get to that next level.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: But I thought he was one of those promising guys coming up and I don't know what happened.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: Something changed within that circle and they need to evaluate things
33:00
SPEAKER_01: and maybe make some hard decisions.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay, next thought is, oh,
33:07
SPEAKER_00: I want to get Dakota's thoughts on heavyweight Joshua Edwards, a 2024 U.S. Olympian.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Dakota has strong opinions about heavyweights.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Let's start with Dakota here.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: I kind of like him, but it's how I felt about Jared Anderson and Richard Torres.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what I'm getting out of these.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: I don't know anything about him, man.
33:30
SPEAKER_02: I know he moved pretty well.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: I know he hits hard enough to knock out.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, a heavyweight journeyman.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: But I really don't know anything about him.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: And it just seems like every time I watch him fight,
33:44
SPEAKER_02: he's early on these undercards, which is great.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: I like to see him active.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: But, like, again...
33:53
SPEAKER_02: 15 fights of Richard Torres.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I really don't know anything about this guy.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: And then we get surprised when Frank Sanchez knocks him out with one shot.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: Obviously,
34:04
SPEAKER_02: that has a lot to do with Frank,
34:06
SPEAKER_02: but there's a lot we didn't know about Richard going into that fight,
34:09
SPEAKER_02: and he was pro for six years.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: So I don't necessarily understand the game plan there.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: I think also it's with the heavyweight division,
34:20
SPEAKER_01: it feels like you've got like Prospect and journeyman level and
34:25
SPEAKER_01: then it's heavyweight championship level,
34:28
SPEAKER_01: you know, like there is a woof, there's a lot of space in between that right and.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: I think that's what happened with Torres and some of the Jared Anderson.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: There's that level of competition that you face to stay busy,
34:45
SPEAKER_01: but then when you really have to fight somebody that has some skills,
34:51
SPEAKER_01: the jump is just too much for some of these guys.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: I think that's going to get to my point.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: With Edwards, I like him as a fighter, but he's been between 220 to 236.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: He came in 235 here.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, he fought some of his amateur career as a cruiserweight, which is a heavyweight.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: He always has reminded me of Steve Cunningham.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: I think he's a very good fighter.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: But it's like I'm not fully sure he's a heavyweight.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: It feels like he might be one of these guys where maybe he's best suited to be
35:21
SPEAKER_00: a cruiserweight but because heavyweight offers more money
35:25
SPEAKER_00: and there's more potential there.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Dakota brought this up years ago to me and I can't stop thinking about it.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes like these guys who you're not sure if they're full heavyweights fight
35:36
SPEAKER_00: a lot of guys that are smaller than them physically.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: And then inevitably you run into a Gerald Washington or a Charles Martin,
35:45
SPEAKER_00: one of these really,
35:46
SPEAKER_00: really big heavyweights and you start going, oh, he's getting hit a little more.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: And I can't get it out of my mind that it feels like.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: He hasn't really fought a big heavyweight just yet.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh, there's not enough Kevin Kingpin Johnsons around today.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Shout out my guy Tokers.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: One of the best on boxing Twitter.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: But listen, you know, Lewis is a bigger guy, but he's like 40-something.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: He didn't look like he was in great shape.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: He didn't really look really engaged in the fight.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: I just think like there's probably somebody better than that for him.
36:18
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
36:19
SPEAKER_02: And when you have an Olympic guy like that, I just don't, I'm big on like not wasting camps too.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: And there's certain fights where it feels like a camp wasted.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I also think that they were trying to get him busy and trying
36:34
SPEAKER_01: to get all their guys in a fight before the end of the year.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And this was one of those situations.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: Now, starting next year,
36:42
SPEAKER_01: you're going to have to really look at putting them in with some more seasoned guys
36:49
SPEAKER_01: that have world-class experience.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: If you take another year of fighting guys like he fought on Saturday
36:57
SPEAKER_01: and It's not going to do him any good.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: It's going to be a waste of time and camps, as Dakota mentioned.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then in the chat,
37:05
SPEAKER_00: Lionel Watson,
37:06
SPEAKER_00: one of our good buddies of the show,
37:07
SPEAKER_00: limited dates in a shallow division makes it hard to develop a new era
37:10
SPEAKER_00: of heavyweights.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm looking at the box rec right here.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Jerry Forrest has a lot of experience,
37:17
SPEAKER_00: and at nine pro fights,
37:19
SPEAKER_00: that might be a risky fight to make,
37:20
SPEAKER_00: but it feels like Jerry Forrest,
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Adam Stewart, Those are the type of guys,
37:27
SPEAKER_02: you know, like Kulev, you know?
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: But it just feels like he's getting to that double digits point
37:35
SPEAKER_00: and he's fought basically eight guys who couldn't match him.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: I think this is the problem with the heavyweight division with building prospects.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: You couldn't match him physically, right?
37:46
SPEAKER_00: The guy in the ring couldn't match his athleticism.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't big enough to impose.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: And now he's getting to a place where he's starting to get ranked and move up.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: And you've got to kind of see what he can do.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: But like Abe touched on, One right hand in the heavyweight division can ruin a prospect.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: So it's like a weird division to build a fighter in.
38:06
SPEAKER_02: But I also think that there's some of his contemporaries.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: If it's like, I mean, those are all Tokers.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: Those are great examples.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: Valin, Lorena, Frasier Clark.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: That would be great.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: Or, you know,
38:15
SPEAKER_02: even somebody like Price Taylor or Brandon Moore or some of these other young,
38:20
SPEAKER_02: you know, American heavyweights.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm pretty sure they all fought in the amateurs anyways.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: So I think that them testing against each other might not be the worst way to do it either.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: But you know what, though?
38:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, and those are really good.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Fight, but like inside of me,
38:37
SPEAKER_01: I feel like,
38:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
38:39
SPEAKER_01: if you can,
38:40
SPEAKER_01: if you can maybe target somebody like would Josh Edwards be competitive
38:46
SPEAKER_01: with Gassiev?
38:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think he would be right now.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: He beats him.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't really see Gassiev as like this killer.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: I feel like he's a guy that kind of just like won the lottery and got a belt.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm saying.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: So like, If they can somehow manage to navigate him towards that,
39:05
SPEAKER_01: like that can put,
39:07
SPEAKER_01: but then, but then if you got to defend it, that's where you run the problem.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: But that's where, you know, you've got to, to be careful with his career.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: But if he is like constantly trying to tell him, listen, I'm ready, I'm ready.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: And putting that pressure on golden boy,
39:26
SPEAKER_01: they may have to do something like that and go that route.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: If they're going to go any route at all, like in that direction.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: Now let's go a different route, and it's a route that me and Dakota want to talk about.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: Osley's Inglacius is our dude.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: Adam Nobleforce,
39:40
SPEAKER_00: he was on site for Fights ATW,
39:43
SPEAKER_00: one of the only websites that had boots on the ground.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: I wrote a piece for The Good Fight about Inglacius.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: I am probably about as high on Inglacius as anyone right now.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: I feel as though he's probably a pound-for-pound fighter almost already.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: He feels like he has the ability to be a pound-for-pound number one fighter.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: And me and Dakota were texting like giddy schoolgirls.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: And maybe Abe should be throwing on our giddy boxing chats so he can see this.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: But it's like you see Wilkins Matu in the undercard and he's struggling with Vladimir Shishkin.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: And it's like a 50-50.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: We'll get into it.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: Dakota will break down.
40:22
SPEAKER_02: I don't think he won that fucking fight, bro.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: It was definitely like the fight was over and it didn't feel great either way.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: And he wins, but it's like, okay.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: And then you see Iglesias destroyed Shishkin.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: It was not competitive.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: And now he's fighting this guy, Oliver Zarin.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's pretty clear.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: He's like, okay, for two rounds, I'm going to press you.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: You might score more points than me, but I'm going to beat you the hell up.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: The guy looks like Two-Face from Batman after the fifth or sixth round.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Tal has to come in.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean...
40:53
SPEAKER_00: He's fighting the only guys that are his mandatories.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: And what I love is now we're starting to get fans saying, well, finally he'll fight somebody.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Like what manager is going to throw their fighter in with a guy who can box you and hurt you?
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Guys, take it from there, bro.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: I want an Iglesias appreciation moment.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you something.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: What impresses me the most is how he throws and lands the right uppercut from
41:18
SPEAKER_01: the softball stands.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Like that's not even supposed to happen like that.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Not from the softball stands and how he does that, man,
41:26
SPEAKER_01: I just be like, man, it looks it's it's definitely a work of art the way he does it.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: And he has so much leverage behind it.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Iglesias is a guy that can fight you that Cuban style,
41:40
SPEAKER_01: but he also has the power to, you know, to press and to break you down.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: The guy has it all.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: I just don't see anybody.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: In the super super middleweight division that beats him, period.
41:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's fights I'd like to see.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: I'd love to see him and Pacheco.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: I think that there are still certain.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: Certain styles and certain looks we haven't seen him in with,
42:07
SPEAKER_02: but I'm as hype on him as anybody.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: And I think he's doing like the Sergio Martinez thing where he's just going
42:12
SPEAKER_02: to fight like the best guy available,
42:14
SPEAKER_02: whether he's a big name or not,
42:16
SPEAKER_02: so that when he fucks up a credible opponent,
42:21
SPEAKER_02: you know, all you have to do is watch it.
42:22
SPEAKER_02: You don't necessarily have to know you like when Martinez fucked up as in Zurich.
42:27
SPEAKER_02: Nobody really knew who he was, but they know he's 35 and 0 and he's got a belt or whatever.
42:31
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
42:32
SPEAKER_02: Was that the fight HBO didn't buy?
42:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't remember.
42:36
SPEAKER_02: I just remember watching that fight and thinking like I had scenes in Zurich,
42:40
SPEAKER_02: but it's like nobody's going to get like crazy excited about this.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: But he beat a very credible guy.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: And that's the approach that Iglesias is taking.
42:49
SPEAKER_02: And I have a lot of respect for it.
42:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's two or three out of four of his last fights against unbeaten guys.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: I actually thought Zarin showed some really good things that first couple rounds.
43:01
SPEAKER_02: That was not a bum that he was in the ring with.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, Syl Yagen was a hell of a fighter.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: So I just I love the way he's handling,
43:10
SPEAKER_02: you know,
43:10
SPEAKER_02: the modern boxing landscape where he could just be a boogeyman
43:14
SPEAKER_02: who doesn't fight ever because he can't get the big names in with him.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: But there's a lot of talent out there in the world,
43:20
SPEAKER_02: and it seems like he's seeking out credible opposition,
43:24
SPEAKER_02: whether you know who he is or not.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: Hey, lukie, I got a question for you.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: Is Iglesias the modern-day Boo-Boo?
43:34
SPEAKER_00: I sure hope not.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: I was going to say he reminds me of a modern-day Golovkin,
43:39
SPEAKER_00: but if he's the modern-day Boo-Boo, he just doesn't get fights.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: The difference is I think Boo-Boo was more caught up in getting the big names
43:49
SPEAKER_02: and spent so much time not fighting.
43:51
SPEAKER_02: This guy's active.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
43:53
SPEAKER_02: He's keeping his blade sharp.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that Martinez and Golovkin are my comps.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not stylistically,
44:01
SPEAKER_00: but in terms of knockouts and staying busy because Iglesias to me is pretty avoided,
44:07
SPEAKER_00: but he's just fine beating up guys that are willing to say yes.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: He's not, I'm only fighting when Canelo fights or whatever.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: Toker said he's extremely good at landing clean shots on the temple.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: It's one thing that impresses me is that lead right hook.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: He lands that and beats people up.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: Part of the reason he gets some scary knockouts, I think Sadjo or Zanand would be a good fight.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: I love the Sadjo fight.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: I pitched that in a story on Fights ATW.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: That would be a great fight.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: We need to see him with a pressure fighter, right?
44:37
SPEAKER_00: Because that's the one thing that I think we want to see is what happens when
44:42
SPEAKER_00: a guy takes his power and forces him back.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: How does he handle?
44:46
SPEAKER_00: And if he handles that test, I mean, I think we have a truly scary guy.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: I want to see him against Munguia, to be honest with you.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the fight for me, Munguia versus Iglesias.
44:57
SPEAKER_02: That's fucking Munguia up, bro.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, but I think that that's the one that we need to see, though.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: We need to see him do that, and then people will really be like, oh, shit.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: But Munguia's not even fighting Beck the bully.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: No, I get it.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: I get it, but...
45:20
SPEAKER_01: I think maybe McGee takes that fight because the money will be there instead of
45:25
SPEAKER_01: a Beck the Bully fight.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: Will McGee go to Canada?
45:29
SPEAKER_01: I think they do big numbers in Canada.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: I want to say Beck the Bully versus Iglesias.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I want to say that.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: I think it's Lester, and I think Lester is the guy that will actually take the fight.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: Lester's, but I think Lester's waiting on the winner at Canelo.
45:51
SPEAKER_02: I love Diego, bro.
45:52
SPEAKER_02: I think Diego's fantastic.
45:54
SPEAKER_02: You think Diego is fighting this kid?
45:56
SPEAKER_02: I just don't see him taking that kind of leap.
45:59
SPEAKER_02: Nah, bro.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't think, I don't think Diego's taking that fight.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: Nah.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: It's good fight week questions for me and Abe.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: Hey, Diego, you got to fight with Darius.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: There's a guy named Osley's Glacius.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever heard of him?
46:13
SPEAKER_00: And do you have an opinion for a hundred people on the internet?
46:16
SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you something.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: I think that he'll take that type of fight if it's the last fight
46:22
SPEAKER_01: on his matchroom deal, which might be coming up.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: It just seems like he's moving in a very computed,
46:33
SPEAKER_02: calculated way, and it's not exclusively driven by his competitive desire.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm just not seeing that.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: I'm not seeing it from Hamza Shiraz.
46:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm not any of the guys that I would say like, yo, these are the next up behind Iglesias.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't think they have that desire.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: They don't have that Dakota go.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk about that desire on the undercard.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: Wilkins Matu, do you want to talk about that fight?
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Iman Kitaf and Dimitri Asanu.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: I thought he was going to look good.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: He actually kind of underachieved to me.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, why don't you just sum up this undercard really quickly?
47:12
SPEAKER_02: I thought Asano was really good.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: He was in with a quality guy,
47:16
SPEAKER_02: and we saw,
47:17
SPEAKER_02: okay, you can catch him with the right hand off of that low front hand, off the jab.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: We saw some vulnerabilities we hadn't seen,
47:24
SPEAKER_02: but we also saw him kind of give the guy the business down the stretch,
47:28
SPEAKER_02: and I thought it was a good performance where there's still something to work on.
47:32
SPEAKER_02: I think Matu is good.
47:34
SPEAKER_02: I just don't think he won that fight.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: Can you say it like me?
47:37
SPEAKER_01: Wilkins Matu?
47:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:39
SPEAKER_02: All right, Wilkins, I just don't think he won the fight.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: I think he got out-hustled.
47:44
SPEAKER_02: I thought Shishkin fought a good fight.
47:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that that means he has no future,
47:49
SPEAKER_02: but I think that he definitely got the benefit of the doubt on that one against,
47:52
SPEAKER_02: you know, a guy who... Hey, wait, you guys are Knicks fans.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: Both for you and Abe, who's the king of hustle for the New York Knicks for your eras?
48:07
SPEAKER_02: Like, just hustle?
48:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hustle points because we were talking about we thought Shishkin out-hustled Matt 2.
48:13
SPEAKER_02: I think I got to go David Lee.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: What are you going, Abe?
48:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're muted, Abe.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: You got me on that one.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: Because the David Lee out-hustled,
48:29
SPEAKER_00: when I'm on with New Yorkers,
48:30
SPEAKER_00: the David Lee out-hustled award goes to Vladimir Shishkin.
48:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the guy was like 6'8", getting 15 rebounds a game.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: I think he's the hustle guy.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: He was a warrior, too.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: He came to the Bay Area and had a really positive attitude and kind of changed the culture here.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, he was like, in a weird way, David Lee set the foundation for the Steph Curry Warriors.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, he really brought a winning culture.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: And then we're like, all right, bro.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: We got it.
48:57
SPEAKER_00: We just like he didn't get it.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't think he got a ring, but keep going on your heater, Dakota.
49:05
SPEAKER_02: So I think that for Matu,
49:06
SPEAKER_02: I would just rather I liked I like what I see with him,
49:11
SPEAKER_02: but I don't think he won the fight.
49:12
SPEAKER_02: He's got to up his work rate.
49:14
SPEAKER_02: He's got to understand that adjustments have to get made.
49:16
SPEAKER_02: And he probably needs somebody in his corner going, yo, bro, you lost that round.
49:20
SPEAKER_02: So.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Definitely a lot to work for there.
49:23
SPEAKER_02: I feel bad for Shishkin.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: Not the first time he's probably gotten ripped off.
49:27
SPEAKER_02: And then he also is one of the guys that had the balls to get in with the boogeyman Iglesias.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: You don't get a medal for that bravery.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: But I do kind of feel bad for Shishkin.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you this, Dakota.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: Do you put him with Diego Pacheco?
49:43
SPEAKER_02: Who?
49:44
SPEAKER_02: Matu?
49:45
SPEAKER_02: Matu.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: Man, I just, I don't see him at that level right now, bro.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't see the intensity or the work rate.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: Matu's getting beat.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Look, I'm going to say it for what it is, man.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying for Diego Pacheco,
50:00
SPEAKER_01: being that he's not fighting that level of quality fights,
50:03
SPEAKER_01: like a Matu might be one that.
50:06
SPEAKER_02: I think they would watch that and go,
50:08
SPEAKER_02: okay, that's not a guy who's going to fucking kill you with activity.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, it feels like Matu is in there trying to just like use his athleticism
50:19
SPEAKER_00: and do cool like viral stuff for the gram.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: Like he's doing cool things that don't actually work at a high level.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: Luke, do we have a cool, do we have a Canadian cool
50:28
SPEAKER_00: boy at our midst?
50:28
SPEAKER_00: I think we have a Canadian cool boy on the loose because he was doing some cool guy stuff.
50:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think he was dumbfounded that this stuff doesn't work against a high level guy.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: He just put himself on the ropes and is doing like,
50:41
SPEAKER_00: let me just let you punch a lot and then catch you with the right hand
50:44
SPEAKER_00: and knock you out.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: And the right hand didn't land and he looked kind of dumbfounded.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: Why isn't this working?
50:49
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know his team,
50:51
SPEAKER_00: but it's like you also are kind of scared when I watch a lot of boxing
50:55
SPEAKER_00: and you don't know the corner and you're seeing weird stuff in the ring.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like it doesn't instill confidence.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: So...
51:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: Let's keep going on this undercard.
51:04
SPEAKER_02: I think I'm more optimistic about Asano,
51:06
SPEAKER_02: to be honest, because I think he's already probably like a top 10 guy.
51:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, wouldn't hate to see him in Schofield.
51:12
SPEAKER_02: I just don't think he's the kind of name.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: He's a scary fight for Schofield, right?
51:17
SPEAKER_02: A guy who can't pronounce his name and he can fight.
51:19
SPEAKER_02: That's that IQ test.
51:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, he's cuts angles.
51:22
SPEAKER_02: He's got good, fast hands.
51:24
SPEAKER_02: He's good defensively for the most part.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: Former rapper, too.
51:30
SPEAKER_02: Former rapper.
51:30
SPEAKER_02: And I think, by the way, I think Santana is a good fighter.
51:33
SPEAKER_02: I think that's a smart guy with good timing.
51:36
SPEAKER_02: So I liked to see the adjustments he made to dominate down the stretch.
51:41
SPEAKER_02: Just real quick, bro.
51:42
SPEAKER_02: There was some mismatches on this one that I just like.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: My guy, you know, he just had a coffee.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: I just McCrory looked like.
51:55
SPEAKER_02: Like a guy that like, you know, I might see at one of my stagehand jobs.
51:58
SPEAKER_02: Like he just didn't look like a fighter, you know, and it's all good.
52:03
SPEAKER_02: And the Boudouin Alfonso fight, I mean, that was honestly kind of hard to watch.
52:08
SPEAKER_02: She was just beating that girl up so bad.
52:10
SPEAKER_02: The corner didn't look like they had any interest in stopping the fight.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: They didn't really look like they had worked a corner.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: They just were like, hey, this is cool.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: Every time that girl would get hit, you'd see her take a fucking deep breath.
52:20
SPEAKER_02: I kind of felt for her, man.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: In the chat, McGee has fought about two live bodies in the last decade.
52:28
SPEAKER_02: Why not Janabek?
52:30
SPEAKER_00: Canelo and who else?
52:31
SPEAKER_00: Who's the other live body?
52:32
SPEAKER_00: In the chat, give us the other live body.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: I guess Rosado, maybe.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: Why not the Janabek versus Bank winner for Iglesias?
52:40
SPEAKER_00: Asanu is in line for the IBF.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: He goes for the winner of Andy Cruz.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: And I can't pronounce that guy's name.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: Padraig had a retirement fight versus a journeyman a few weeks ago.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: He took the fight and bailed at the first sign of trouble.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that's super promising.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's move over to this week.
52:58
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, it's British Boxing.
53:00
SPEAKER_00: We know you love British Boxing.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: Before we get into Daniel Dubois versus Fabio Wardley,
53:06
SPEAKER_00: what are the odds that in the main event we get some hands high,
53:11
SPEAKER_00: show me you're a tough man?
53:13
SPEAKER_00: Like the UK version where they... What do you think, Dakota?
53:19
SPEAKER_02: In the main event?
53:21
SPEAKER_02: I think Daniel Dubois is a real operator.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: I don't think he's one of those come on hit me Brits.
53:27
SPEAKER_02: And we also know that he doesn't have the greatest chin.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: I would say if he has a weak point, it's that.
53:33
SPEAKER_02: Can you give it a grade?
53:35
SPEAKER_02: Dubois Chin.
53:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:37
SPEAKER_00: Give it a grade like you're a teacher.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: So like give it a C and
53:40
SPEAKER_02: write a note and write a note on your grade.
53:43
SPEAKER_02: I think I think that the chin is a C and,
53:47
SPEAKER_02: you know,
53:48
SPEAKER_02: maybe sharpen up early so you don't get caught early
53:50
SPEAKER_02: because that's generally how it happens.
53:52
SPEAKER_02: He gets caught early, you know, before he's really got his rhythm and he fights great fighters.
53:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, you got to give it to him.
53:59
SPEAKER_02: The kid is one of the guys in the heavyweight division making the exciting matchups.
54:04
SPEAKER_00: He's got one of the best resumes going.
54:06
SPEAKER_00: Probably the best resume since Usyk, right?
54:11
SPEAKER_02: I think absolutely.
54:12
SPEAKER_02: Whether he's actually the best guy or not,
54:14
SPEAKER_02: if you go up and down that resume, it's right up there.
54:17
SPEAKER_02: I think Wardley's working on it too, beating Joe Parker.
54:20
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I actually think that these guys are...
54:26
SPEAKER_02: World-class operators and they're not going to do like the coal miner Brit guy
54:31
SPEAKER_02: of like, come on, hit me hard.
54:33
SPEAKER_02: I can take it.
54:33
SPEAKER_02: I just don't.
54:34
SPEAKER_02: I think they're above that.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: I just had to run that by you.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: Abe, is it too early for Wardley to take this fight?
54:42
SPEAKER_00: Five months after taking a bad, brutal beating?
54:44
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
54:47
SPEAKER_01: I remember I had the unique opportunity to talk to George Foreman
54:53
SPEAKER_01: while he was alive,
54:54
SPEAKER_01: and he told me that when Fury got knocked down by Wilder that he would never be
55:01
SPEAKER_01: the same fighter again after that.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that this is the case with Worley.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: He took a real beating.
55:09
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of him stayed in the ring that night.
55:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I don't, this shouldn't have been the first fight after that.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: He should have taken a little bit of a lesser touch,
55:22
SPEAKER_01: but I think that, uh,
55:25
SPEAKER_01: he made,
55:25
SPEAKER_01: he was in a position where,
55:27
SPEAKER_01: you know,
55:27
SPEAKER_01: this offered the most money and Maybe taking
55:31
SPEAKER_01: a lesser fight would have would have exposed that he took too much of a beating
55:35
SPEAKER_01: the first time.
55:36
SPEAKER_01: So why not go for the rematch?
55:38
SPEAKER_01: But 100 percent, I think that this is the wrong fight for him at this moment.
55:42
SPEAKER_02: It's also not the first beating he's taken.
55:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he really did a number on him and so did Parker and his power,
55:49
SPEAKER_02: you know, like Deontay Wilder was able to bail him out.
55:52
SPEAKER_02: But he's taken a couple of gnarly beatings.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this this this last one was this last one was,
56:00
SPEAKER_01: I think, one of the harder harder ones that he's taken.
56:04
SPEAKER_01: And I just this is this doesn't spell him going the distance on Saturday.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, answer this question up here.
56:15
SPEAKER_00: I think Dubois misdiagnosed.
56:18
SPEAKER_00: It's not a chin issue.
56:19
SPEAKER_00: It's panicking when he gets hit.
56:21
SPEAKER_00: Took a huge shot off of Wardley, Joyce, Hergovic, and Miller.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: Only went down voluntarily for the most part.
56:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there might be some truth to that.
56:32
SPEAKER_02: But I also think that he does get buzzed.
56:34
SPEAKER_02: And I think that he's not always his sharpest right from the opening bell.
56:39
SPEAKER_02: And there is like a thing of he has to get caught to wake up.
56:42
SPEAKER_02: I just feel like it's like the Lorena fight.
56:45
SPEAKER_02: Remember, he gets dropped in the Lorena fight.
56:48
SPEAKER_02: It's a recurring thing for him.
56:51
SPEAKER_00: So for me with Dubois,
56:52
SPEAKER_00: I think that the interviews point out what I think are kind
56:56
SPEAKER_00: of his weakness is focus.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't always stay focused in interviews.
57:01
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't stay focused early in fights.
57:03
SPEAKER_00: And I think part of this too is...
57:06
SPEAKER_00: How do I say it?
57:07
SPEAKER_00: It's like he can't really be locked.
57:09
SPEAKER_00: He's like the anti-Tony Harrison.
57:11
SPEAKER_00: Tony Harrison loses focus late in fights.
57:14
SPEAKER_00: It's like Dubois starts the fight unfocused and then has to find his focus.
57:19
SPEAKER_00: It's like he almost has to face adversity to get locked in.
57:23
SPEAKER_00: Kind of like Tito Trinidad in a way.
57:24
SPEAKER_00: It's like he gets knocked down.
57:26
SPEAKER_00: He's more dangerous.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like the big thing with him is a focus issue.
57:33
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes with Dubois,
57:35
SPEAKER_01: I get these vibes of how you see it in the old 80s movies where you see
57:42
SPEAKER_01: a football jock and he's just kind of like has zero common sense of
57:48
SPEAKER_01: or just not knowing what's going on around the world and then he gets on
57:52
SPEAKER_01: the football field and You know, he eventually becomes this monster in there.
57:56
SPEAKER_01: But once he takes off the pads, he couldn't tell you what one plus one was.
58:00
SPEAKER_01: Not saying that was stupid.
58:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm saying that he's just reminds me of a guy that's just oblivious
58:06
SPEAKER_01: to everything that's going on.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that carries into the fight a little bit in the early rounds
58:13
SPEAKER_01: until he's reminded that he's in a fight and then he puts it together after that.
58:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm looking at Toker, who's my man.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: Wardley Dubois is not unlike Joyce Zhang.
58:27
SPEAKER_00: An early KO is coming from the former Iron Chin tough man.
58:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm seeing this end in three or four rounds is the way I see it.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: I think Dubois is going to spark him out pretty bad.
58:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think this is probably going to be the end of Wardley or Wardley is going
58:42
SPEAKER_00: to transition into maybe a gatekeeper status in British boxing.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like this is going to be People loved the first fight for the drama,
58:51
SPEAKER_00: but really, if you look at the first fight, it's like Wardley catches Dubois early.
58:55
SPEAKER_00: Dubois rights the ship and then beats up Wardley,
58:58
SPEAKER_00: and the fight should have been stopped earlier,
59:01
SPEAKER_00: but it's a prolonged one-sided beating.
59:03
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, do you have any opinion that it's going to be any different than what I'm seeing?
59:08
SPEAKER_02: I actually didn't see the first one because I didn't really view that as
59:12
SPEAKER_02: a pay-per-view because I'm not British, but...
59:16
SPEAKER_02: I think that that's very possible,
59:17
SPEAKER_02: and I think that the reason they held out was that he had done that before.
59:21
SPEAKER_02: He had successfully come back in fights.
59:23
SPEAKER_02: He was down big and got knockouts,
59:25
SPEAKER_02: and so I think the thinking of the corner was,
59:28
SPEAKER_02: this is who our guy is,
59:30
SPEAKER_02: and we've got to give him the opportunity to get those knockouts
59:34
SPEAKER_02: because we know he can.
59:36
SPEAKER_00: Tokers is also saying the first Frazier-Clark fight was rough as hell.
59:40
SPEAKER_00: He's taken so much punishment.
59:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wasn't that a draw or something?
59:47
SPEAKER_01: It was a draw,
59:48
SPEAKER_01: but I just
59:48
SPEAKER_00: think that like Wardley with no amateur experience coming
59:51
SPEAKER_00: from white collar boxing, every fight was basically a real fight.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's like he's coming in.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he must have started camp two to three months after the worst beating
1:00:01
SPEAKER_00: of his boxing career.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_02: What is white collar boxing?
1:00:03
SPEAKER_02: I've heard people say that a couple times.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_00: It means you have a job in an office where you have to wear a collared shirt.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_00: And then they go and sign up for a boxing gym and they do like a boot camp.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_00: So they do like a six week camp and then they do a three round fight.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: And then imagine being like a recruiter or something and you're a heavy,
1:00:26
SPEAKER_00: a big guy and you run into Fabio Wardley,
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: who at the time is just an office guy and he sparks you out and beats you up.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: And then so he came from basically just doing You know,
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: office corporate America boxing to getting picked up and having...
1:00:45
SPEAKER_02: So it's not like a league or something?
1:00:46
SPEAKER_00: No,
1:00:47
SPEAKER_00: it's a term for kind of like people that make upper middle class salaries who dabble
1:00:53
SPEAKER_00: in boxing and then go to like little smoker events to fight their co-workers.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_00: That's my interpretation of that.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_00: Abe, do you have a different definition?
1:01:05
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, that's pretty much what it is right there.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you see it more,
1:01:11
SPEAKER_01: I would say you see it more in like places like New York,
1:01:13
SPEAKER_01: maybe, and maybe like in Los Angeles, you know, the bigger cities like that.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's hubs.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_00: It's like a hub.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: Wardley shouldn't have fought Dubois after the Parker fight.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_00: He already had two hard fights before that.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_00: He deserved a soft touch.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_00: Mankey Crazy said it's a fight club.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_00: Undercard is atrocious.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_00: We're not even going to talk about it.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: The only thing that's...
1:01:35
SPEAKER_00: Worth mentioning is the two-time Olympic gold medalist.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_00: Jolioff will be featured against Solomon Dakariz.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_00: I know Dakota's big Solomon Dakariz.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_02: This is also a pay-per-view?
1:01:46
SPEAKER_02: You better believe it is.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean, get the fuck out of here, bro.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_02: That's insane.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you better believe it.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_00: And Jolioff, you know, we're, what, a year and a half out from the Olympics, basically.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_00: So does anyone even have any faith in him as a pro when There's a chance he could be
1:02:00
SPEAKER_00: a three-time Olympic gold medalist.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_00: I think we've kind of thrown the towel in.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let me get my fucking wallet out, you know?
1:02:07
SPEAKER_00: I think for Jolioff, have we thrown out any hopes of him being the next great heavyweight?
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: It feels like that door is closed.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't even remember what he looks like.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
1:02:21
SPEAKER_01: I think
1:02:21
SPEAKER_01: that ship has sailed.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: I like the little visual.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, since the show's going too long,
1:02:27
SPEAKER_00: we're going to go on to the next segment, which is Abe's boy, Sebastian Fundora.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: And with all due respect, I can't pronounce the guy's name, so we're going to just say some guy.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_00: So Fundora is fighting on TNT Sports.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_00: Toker says, I'm looking forward to Jolioff throwing one jab around.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_00: I am too.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_00: What do we make of this Fundora?
1:02:50
SPEAKER_00: It's a mandatory title fence against Ermal.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, the, I tried to talk myself into it and say it's a good fight.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_00: The more I look into it, it just does not look like a good fight.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, what are we doing?
1:03:02
SPEAKER_02: We got another pay-per-view here or
1:03:04
SPEAKER_00: no, this one, this one's not on pay-per-view.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_00: Hey, what are you thinking here?
1:03:11
SPEAKER_01: Listen, I like, I, I want to be behind funder, right?
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: But every time that he has a microphone, He almost like does the complete opposite for me.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_01: You know,
1:03:31
SPEAKER_01: they want him to be at the level of Tank and Benavidez as far
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: as stardom is concerned, but he doesn't help his own situation.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_01: Real nonchalant about everything,
1:03:45
SPEAKER_01: doesn't really want to The way he answers some of the questions about maybe fighting
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: a potential boots or unifying, it's almost like he really doesn't care for it.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: And I don't even know if he fights any of those guys next year.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_01: I feel like he's going to move up to 160 after this fight and say,
1:04:09
SPEAKER_01: oh, you know, there's no fights for me at 154.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm moving up or whatever.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_01: It just...
1:04:17
SPEAKER_01: This fight doesn't really do it for me, but I will say this.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes these are the type of fights that end up surprising you,
1:04:28
SPEAKER_01: and then we get the result that we didn't really expect.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_00: I want to throw this to Dakota.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_00: Jamonte Clark,
1:04:35
SPEAKER_00: I want to say seven years ago,
1:04:37
SPEAKER_00: so a long time ago, fought Fundora, and he's a southpaw, and fought him to a draw.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_00: Toker said that this Albanian...
1:04:47
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_00: We can't spell his last name, so that's the description.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_00: It's a professional spoiler, and he might make Fundora look bad in a decision loss.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_00: I think that this fight really,
1:04:57
SPEAKER_00: and Dakota,
1:04:57
SPEAKER_00: you push back on this, it comes down to how good or how bad you think Fundora is.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: I think Fundora is pretty impressive for what he's done to Tim Zook,
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: Keith Thurman, and Cordell Booker.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: I think some people look at it as great matchmaking and are still uncertain
1:05:12
SPEAKER_00: about how good he is.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_00: So to me, this is like...
1:05:16
SPEAKER_00: Champions tend to use title defenses like this as tune-up fights like Golovkin did
1:05:21
SPEAKER_00: and Martinez did.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_00: And if he doesn't do that, I think we start to rate him differently.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_00: And I think that for me, this is about his level of focus.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_00: How focused is he on defending?
1:05:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to get your thoughts on this matchup.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_02: Well, if it's a mandatory, which it is, I believe.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_02: I have less of an issue with it because he is just sort of fulfilling an obligation
1:05:43
SPEAKER_02: and that's part of the sport.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes those mandatories are not the biggest, most exciting, sexy name that's out there.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_02: So that just kind of comes with the territory.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_02: If you have an issue with the fight,
1:05:54
SPEAKER_02: then your issue is,
1:05:55
SPEAKER_02: I would say, with the sanctioning body and not with the opponent themselves.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_02: But it does feel like.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, and maybe it's being with PBC in 2026.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_02: Like it does, like what you said, Abe, it feels like he lives out on an island.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_02: You know,
1:06:13
SPEAKER_02: we got Kelly,
1:06:14
SPEAKER_02: we got Boots,
1:06:15
SPEAKER_02: we got Zayas,
1:06:17
SPEAKER_02: we got all these guys over here, Virgil,
1:06:20
SPEAKER_02: Madrumov,
1:06:21
SPEAKER_02: and it feels like they're fighting each other and those fights are on the table.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_02: And then we have Fedora over here, who's maybe like the third or fourth best guy, but isn't.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_02: Jumping in the mix,
1:06:32
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:06:33
SPEAKER_02: really with that batch of guys since the zoo fight or since the zoo fights.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_02: And in context, that first zoo fight was very impressive.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_02: Nobody thought he was going to win.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_02: He had just been knocked out by Mendoza.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_02: He was a late replacement, much like Mendoza was.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, pulled off at the what at the time was a big upset.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_02: So I see the substance with Fundora, but I also see him out on an island.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this is the thing.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_01: It is a mandatory.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_01: Shame on the WBC for not making the real mandatory,
1:07:08
SPEAKER_01: which is their interim champion, Virgil Ortiz, fighting him.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_01: But that's a different conversation.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: With Fondura,
1:07:17
SPEAKER_01: I think that
1:07:20
SPEAKER_01: we just got to – I just feel like – We got to get past this fight and
1:07:24
SPEAKER_01: then see what's next.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_01: I didn't really like the answer that he gave Lukie when Lukie just asked him about,
1:07:31
SPEAKER_01: hey, how's college going?
1:07:32
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, oh, that's not my personal business.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_01: Bro, you are in the public light.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_01: Like you're a public figure.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_01: People are going to ask you these things.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_01: It's not a big deal to ask you about.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_01: How are you doing in school?
1:07:45
SPEAKER_01: Unless you're not in school,
1:07:47
SPEAKER_01: unless you're not doing well in school,
1:07:49
SPEAKER_01: then maybe you might take offense to that and say that.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_01: Don't ask me personal questions.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_01: But I just, that just kind of robbed me.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_00: It was sick.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_00: It's one of many interviews with Fundora
1:07:58
SPEAKER_00: where I just feel like I've greatly inconvenienced him or asked questions
1:08:02
SPEAKER_00: that made him somewhat upset or unhappy.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_00: I'd say I've had at least three or four moments.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_00: I'd say that's most people probably come off with that impression,
1:08:13
SPEAKER_00: but I'd say I,
1:08:15
SPEAKER_00: I at least feel like every interaction I try to ask him something
1:08:18
SPEAKER_00: and it just feels really effing weird.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_00: And I love that that's how the press conference ended was like, hey, don't ask me this question.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: Why do you think that is, Lukie?
1:08:27
SPEAKER_02: Because I felt like he always came off like a very friendly, intelligent kid.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_02: And yet it is interesting that you've had that experience.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_02: I highly doubt you're the only one.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_02: No.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_00: God, I feel like he'd be so angry doing an editorial synopsis too of like him.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_00: He'd be like,
1:08:45
SPEAKER_00: I can already picture the answer of being like,
1:08:47
SPEAKER_00: it's me and it's my opinion and not my opinion.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_00: And don't talk about my opinion because it's just my opinion and you're free
1:08:55
SPEAKER_00: to think how you think.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_00: But it's my opinion.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_00: I think for Fendora, he's really trying to be a great boxer.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_00: I get this sense that he really wants to be the best.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think for him...
1:09:10
SPEAKER_00: Media obligations sometimes don't get at what he wants or maybe even being a great boxer.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't want to talk about how I get like the sense that maybe He feels as
1:09:24
SPEAKER_00: though he knows some secrets that have led to his success and he doesn't want
1:09:28
SPEAKER_00: to share too much maybe or he wants to be secretive about what he's doing
1:09:34
SPEAKER_00: to not give a competitive advantage to his opponents.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think because of that,
1:09:40
SPEAKER_00: because he's so reserved,
1:09:41
SPEAKER_00: it just leads to like an awkward tension because he's always going
1:09:45
SPEAKER_00: to be very guarded.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_00: And I do feel that he's trying to be friendly,
1:09:48
SPEAKER_00: but I feel as though He doesn't want to open up because it's part
1:09:53
SPEAKER_00: of his game plan almost.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_00: It's like he doesn't.
1:09:56
SPEAKER_00: If you notice, they don't do much social media.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_00: They don't do media days.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_00: They don't show you about the camp.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_00: I feel like they're very, very private as a team.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like his father is one of the best coaches in all the boxing,
1:10:08
SPEAKER_00: but doesn't get recognized because of how private they are as people.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_00: And I think that the problem is as a main event fighter,
1:10:16
SPEAKER_00: there's a little bit of you have to kind of sell the show and be a big personality.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_00: And he kind of zags the opposite way.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_00: And the more you try to find a compelling story or something about him,
1:10:28
SPEAKER_00: I feel like sometimes he's just like, dude, this is stupid.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_00: I just want to box.
1:10:32
SPEAKER_00: I just want to win fights and give you good knockouts.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_00: Why are you asking?
1:10:36
SPEAKER_00: If I wanted to tell you that, I'd tell you that.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to beat this guy up on the fight.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_00: Respect to him.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the Fundora conundrum is he just wants to fight.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_00: He wants to show up and give you a good performance.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't say he doesn't value the media part, but he's obsessed with the winning part.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_00: That's my thoughts.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_01: I think also...
1:10:58
SPEAKER_01: His definition of what he sees as success is probably different
1:11:03
SPEAKER_01: than what his promoter will like for him to be regarding success.
1:11:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's where the conflict is.
1:11:14
SPEAKER_01: And he just may not know that.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_01: And not because he's not aware,
1:11:20
SPEAKER_01: it's just that He's not focused on anything outside of his own circle,
1:11:24
SPEAKER_01: but he doesn't realize that what his promoter wants and what he wants are the same
1:11:32
SPEAKER_01: but different.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I thought Dakota was jumping in.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's talk about this undercard.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_00: We got Brandon...
1:11:45
SPEAKER_00: Figueroa versus Tomoki Kameda.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_00: Kameda, I first was introduced to 11 years ago when he lost to Jamie McDonald.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_00: He does have a, I believe, split decision loss to Angelo Leo.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_00: Leo has been very inactive, although it's not his fault this year.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_00: He was supposed to fight Raiz Alim and then the fight fell through.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_00: Hasn't returned yet.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's fairly,
1:12:08
SPEAKER_00: I guess the interest for me of Kameda versus Figueroa is they both come forward.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_00: And they run into each other and Kameda trains in Mexico.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like what Figueroa does is probably a foreign style.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_00: If anything, it might make him comfortable.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_00: And Figueroa, I feel like is a hot and cold guy.
1:12:30
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes he looks lights out.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes he's amazing.
1:12:33
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes he just looks really not present.
1:12:37
SPEAKER_00: I think this has the chance of being a really good fight or it's just like, what are we doing?
1:12:43
SPEAKER_02: I really like Kameda.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, he's been around for a while.
1:12:46
SPEAKER_02: I think longevity is an underrated quality in boxing.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_02: I just don't know if he's big enough or if he's got the intensity to get over
1:12:57
SPEAKER_02: the hump against a guy like Figueroa.
1:12:59
SPEAKER_02: But I think that if Figueroa is in an ebb instead of a flow,
1:13:04
SPEAKER_02: I think that this is a guy that could fuck up his momentum because it's not
1:13:08
SPEAKER_02: the biggest name.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_01: A couple of things with Kameda.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_01: The lasting image that I have of him is when he fought at the StubHub in
1:13:17
SPEAKER_01: the press conference before.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_01: He looked at his opponent and he stuck out his tongue.
1:13:23
SPEAKER_01: He was like... And that picture just stuck in my head for Kameda.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_01: A couple of things.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_01: One, I think that...
1:13:33
SPEAKER_01: He's more of a promoter than a fighter these days.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_01: He's got his promotion company that he's doing fights in Japan and stuff like that.
1:13:42
SPEAKER_01: He spent early part of his camp in Japan before going to Mexico.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_01: I know folks that were in that situation that have told me that.
1:13:53
SPEAKER_01: I just think that this is the fight for Figueroa to win.
1:13:59
SPEAKER_01: And if Inouye is going to make his fight at 126,
1:14:04
SPEAKER_01: it's going to be against a guy like Figueroa if he faces Bam first and
1:14:08
SPEAKER_01: then whatever happens.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_01: But if he doesn't face Bam and for whatever reason that doesn't work out
1:14:14
SPEAKER_01: and he says,
1:14:14
SPEAKER_01: you know what,
1:14:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm moving on, I think Figueroa, if he wins, he gets the Inouye fight.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_00: What about this comment?
1:14:23
SPEAKER_00: If Tomoki somehow wins, him versus Inoue is an absolute mega fight in Japan.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_00: Does the Tokyo Dome easily?
1:14:29
SPEAKER_00: And also, I don't think Fendora's opponent beat Samake, if I'm honest, was a messy fight.
1:14:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think those are all credible.
1:14:37
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, I want to throw it to you.
1:14:38
SPEAKER_00: Jermell Charlo's out.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_00: I know you love your Charlo.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_00: That's a bummer because you had your Lions Only shirt ready for this weekend.
1:14:47
SPEAKER_00: Instead, we get Armando Resendez versus Keon.
1:14:51
SPEAKER_00: Can't pronounce his last name.
1:14:52
SPEAKER_00: Shout my guy Anthony Cox and many of these other great Australians who know all
1:14:57
SPEAKER_00: about those guys.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
1:15:00
SPEAKER_00: is there any chance Resendez comes in and runs into a guy that's really limited
1:15:05
SPEAKER_00: and gets hit too much and has a hard fight?
1:15:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm just like, why would you put one of them guys on your card anymore?
1:15:13
SPEAKER_02: How many times is this kid going to pull out with a fucking hangnail
1:15:17
SPEAKER_02: before we stop putting Jamal Charlo on these cards?
1:15:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't understand.
1:15:22
SPEAKER_02: There are guys in boxing that do everything right, and they never get a fucking chance.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_02: And then there's guys like the Charlos who get a million fucking chances
1:15:31
SPEAKER_02: to fuck up every which way possible, and they just keep popping up.
1:15:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't understand it.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_02: I have no interest in either of those guys.
1:15:40
SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you this, Dakota.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_01: Does Jamel make it to Australia?
1:15:44
SPEAKER_01: No.
1:15:47
SPEAKER_02: Is he going to be sober at the airport?
1:15:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't even rely on them as adults.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_00: Abe, any counterpoint to that?
1:16:02
SPEAKER_01: No, I just,
1:16:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't understand why he would take a fight going on straight
1:16:08
SPEAKER_01: if his brother had problems because he's also been arrested too,
1:16:11
SPEAKER_01: if I'm not mistaken.
1:16:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure,
1:16:13
SPEAKER_00: but I just like the Dakota statement that I don't rely on them as adults,
1:16:17
SPEAKER_00: like just basic showing up.
1:16:19
SPEAKER_02: I don't, bro.
1:16:20
SPEAKER_02: If I told one of them guys,
1:16:21
SPEAKER_02: yo, we got to meet here at 3.30, I don't trust they're showing up, dude.
1:16:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's tough.
1:16:29
SPEAKER_01: One can say, well, that's being hard, but...
1:16:35
SPEAKER_02: I just think that they've shown to be unreliable and uninterested in staying active
1:16:40
SPEAKER_02: for so long, and I don't understand why guys like that and Broner...
1:16:46
SPEAKER_02: Why do some guys get 10 million fucking chances?
1:16:50
SPEAKER_02: And then there's guys that have to sit and wait on one mandatory for three years.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't make sense.
1:16:55
SPEAKER_02: And again, I don't even know which Charlo we're talking about.
1:16:58
SPEAKER_02: That's how uninterested I am.
1:17:00
SPEAKER_02: But what I know is that they both pulled out of fights multiple times,
1:17:04
SPEAKER_02: relatively uninteresting fights.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_02: And so I just don't,
1:17:09
SPEAKER_02: if they're not serious competitors,
1:17:11
SPEAKER_02: if they don't make it to the finish line,
1:17:13
SPEAKER_02: what is the fucking point of putting them on your card?
1:17:18
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, they're not a good hang.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_00: Tell us how you really feel, Dakota.
1:17:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, listen, I think that era of fighters is coming to an end real fast.
1:17:35
SPEAKER_00: By the way, tons of people jumping in the chat.
1:17:37
SPEAKER_00: We're almost done,
1:17:37
SPEAKER_00: but be sure to hit the thumbs up button,
1:17:39
SPEAKER_00: subscribe to the channel, and let us know who your favorite bald guy is.
1:17:43
SPEAKER_00: I think Dakota might be bald, but I think he has a head of hair too.
1:17:46
SPEAKER_00: But you can guess underneath the noggin cap.
1:17:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, what a bummer.
1:17:50
SPEAKER_00: He's not the bald guy.
1:17:51
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, bro.
1:17:52
SPEAKER_02: I got a full mop up there, bro.
1:17:54
SPEAKER_00: So speaking of your full mop,
1:17:55
SPEAKER_00: what do you think of Resendiz versus an Australian dude that was originally set
1:17:59
SPEAKER_00: to fight Charlo and...
1:18:03
SPEAKER_00: Resendez is the replacement here?
1:18:05
SPEAKER_00: Resendez is the replacement.
1:18:08
SPEAKER_02: I don't understand anything then.
1:18:10
SPEAKER_02: Then I don't understand anything.
1:18:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, talk us through not understanding anything.
1:18:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, if Jamal or Jamal, which Charlotte are we talking about?
1:18:20
SPEAKER_02: Jamal.
1:18:21
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about Jamal.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_02: The one that never fucking fights.
1:18:25
SPEAKER_02: The one that hasn't fought since Clinton was in office.
1:18:28
SPEAKER_02: Right?
1:18:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:18:30
SPEAKER_02: He was going to fight an Australian random guy, not Resendez, not a guy who's in the top 15.
1:18:36
SPEAKER_02: And then the guy who's in the top 15 is the replacement.
1:18:39
SPEAKER_02: Like, I truly don't understand anything.
1:18:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what's your breakdown of the fight?
1:18:45
SPEAKER_00: Dakota gave his analysis.
1:18:48
SPEAKER_01: I think this is probably one of those fights that will probably fulfill the...
1:18:59
SPEAKER_01: The action of the card more than the main event or any other fights.
1:19:05
SPEAKER_01: I think it's one of those fights where they're going to give the fans the pound
1:19:09
SPEAKER_01: of flesh they're looking for for the night.
1:19:12
SPEAKER_00: Any chance that the Australian dude beats Resendez coming in on a short camp and
1:19:16
SPEAKER_00: then we get to see Jermell Charlo versus him in the future and it's billed as
1:19:21
SPEAKER_00: a top fight?
1:19:24
SPEAKER_00: Main event, lukie pay-per-view.
1:19:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_00: Dakota would be pumped.
1:19:28
SPEAKER_00: Final two fights.
1:19:29
SPEAKER_02: The Australian guy just looking at his box track.
1:19:33
SPEAKER_00: Dakota's doing research
1:19:34
SPEAKER_02: now, live on the show.
1:19:36
SPEAKER_02: The man has not fought somebody with a double-digit win count in four years.
1:19:41
SPEAKER_02: So there you go.
1:19:43
SPEAKER_00: Dakota does the real-time research for the show.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_00: Marco Romero, I've got a story on for The Good Fight.
1:19:50
SPEAKER_00: I did an interview with him.
1:19:52
SPEAKER_00: And there's going to be an interview on the podcast later this week on the Substack.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_00: So you can hear that.
1:19:59
SPEAKER_00: He'll be opening the card.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_00: He's really talented.
1:20:01
SPEAKER_00: I believe he's 20 years old, 15-0, 13 knockouts.
1:20:04
SPEAKER_00: Our friend Bob is the PR guy.
1:20:06
SPEAKER_00: All of us love Bob Trigger.
1:20:08
SPEAKER_00: And he's really promising.
1:20:11
SPEAKER_00: And then there's King David Garcia, 17-year-old pro, got a number of fights.
1:20:16
SPEAKER_00: I think he turned pro at 15 or 14.
1:20:18
SPEAKER_00: And he's in there with an undefeated guy.
1:20:20
SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
1:20:21
SPEAKER_00: obviously it's probably a hand-selected undefeated guy, but the guy's from Oxnard.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like when you fight an undefeated kid from Oxnard...
1:20:28
SPEAKER_00: No matter the skill level, those can be hairy situations, especially at 17 years old.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_00: So I'd advise people to kind of watch those two fights.
1:20:36
SPEAKER_00: Any other thoughts for you guys?
1:20:41
SPEAKER_02: I genuinely want to close on this.
1:20:43
SPEAKER_02: Why do you think it is that Jamal Charlo gets 10 million chances?
1:20:47
SPEAKER_00: Abe, why don't you answer that?
1:20:53
SPEAKER_02: I think that.
1:20:57
SPEAKER_01: I honestly believe it's the closing of the books for that era,
1:21:02
SPEAKER_01: and they're just trying to finish that out for those fighters from that era.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_01: Let's give them the last few fights that I owe them.
1:21:10
SPEAKER_02: You don't think Al thinks of this kid as a liability?
1:21:13
SPEAKER_02: He's in his mid-30s.
1:21:14
SPEAKER_02: He gets injured or pulls out of two-thirds of the fights he gets signed to.
1:21:18
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, I'll tell you what I think it is.
1:21:22
SPEAKER_00: I think that there has been such a focus...
1:21:26
SPEAKER_00: With some promoters,
1:21:27
SPEAKER_00: if not all,
1:21:28
SPEAKER_00: of these main event level fighters,
1:21:30
SPEAKER_00: that fighters like Jesus Ramos were less of a priority.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_00: And like networks or whatever want these quote unquote big names
1:21:40
SPEAKER_00: because they were thrown at the top of the card.
1:21:43
SPEAKER_00: So as you go to a DAZN, it's probably like, hey, we want a Charlo brother.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_00: Those are the stars.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's probably...
1:21:49
SPEAKER_02: But in what world is he a main event fighter?
1:21:52
SPEAKER_02: Since COVID...
1:21:53
SPEAKER_00: But like,
1:21:53
SPEAKER_00: it's like he did some fights that were main events and he established a name
1:21:58
SPEAKER_00: and he was supposed to be a guy of this era.
1:22:01
SPEAKER_00: He just never fought.
1:22:03
SPEAKER_00: And I think because we've become obsessed with main event fighters and
1:22:08
SPEAKER_00: because honestly,
1:22:09
SPEAKER_00: main event fighters stopped fighting frequently,
1:22:12
SPEAKER_00: there is a level of I want to see what happens.
1:22:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think also with both Charlo brothers and There was a level of streamer before streamer.
1:22:21
SPEAKER_00: There was an unhinged... That is a great point.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_02: Does that not play into what I was talking about a couple weeks ago about collabs?
1:22:28
SPEAKER_02: Is that what it is?
1:22:29
SPEAKER_02: I think it's a collab.
1:22:31
SPEAKER_00: I think they're collabing because it's like there's a level of this generation wants
1:22:35
SPEAKER_00: to see chaos.
1:22:36
SPEAKER_00: And you know chaos is coming.
1:22:38
SPEAKER_00: You know some cool shirts are coming.
1:22:40
SPEAKER_00: There's going to be some antics.
1:22:42
SPEAKER_00: The weigh-in becomes more interesting because who knows?
1:22:46
SPEAKER_00: Will he make weight?
1:22:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't know.
1:22:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:22:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think that to your point, Lukie, it's it's an analytics game with that.
1:22:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:22:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, that at times drives more, more of this than anything else.
1:23:04
SPEAKER_01: It's not about, you know, who's the most talented.
1:23:06
SPEAKER_01: It's about.
1:23:09
SPEAKER_01: Who creates the most traffic at times?
1:23:13
SPEAKER_01: And we're seeing that even on the wrestling TKO side.
1:23:17
SPEAKER_01: They're constantly putting the same people on the same shows because those are
1:23:23
SPEAKER_01: the guys that are selling merchandise,
1:23:24
SPEAKER_01: that are driving them social media numbers and stuff like that.
1:23:27
SPEAKER_01: Believe it or not, the Charlo name is still a name that casual fans know about.
1:23:34
SPEAKER_01: Ask somebody that watches boxing casually
1:23:37
SPEAKER_02: and you say,
1:23:37
SPEAKER_02: hey, the twins are like,
1:23:38
SPEAKER_01: oh, yeah, yeah, you know, this, that, that, or whatever.
1:23:41
SPEAKER_00: Lions only.
1:23:42
SPEAKER_01: There's still names that draw to that, you know.
1:23:45
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know,
1:23:47
SPEAKER_01: if you're a company like DAZN and you're trying to up subscriptions,
1:23:51
SPEAKER_01: you use that to do that.
1:23:54
SPEAKER_00: Abe, can you answer this comment?
1:23:57
SPEAKER_00: With traffic.
1:23:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh, shit.
1:23:59
SPEAKER_02: And bro,
1:23:59
SPEAKER_02: it's just like,
1:24:00
SPEAKER_02: even beyond that, it's like he fought Cornflake like a year and a half ago.
1:24:05
SPEAKER_02: Before that, it took him two years.
1:24:07
SPEAKER_02: It's just, it's so uninteresting to me.
1:24:11
SPEAKER_02: And listen, I don't need to like a guy to appreciate that they're a good fighter.
1:24:15
SPEAKER_02: I think Ryan Garcia is a fucking herb,
1:24:18
SPEAKER_02: but he's a hell of a fighter and you can't take that from him.
1:24:20
SPEAKER_02: You just can't.
1:24:22
SPEAKER_02: These guys don't fight and they're schmucks.
1:24:26
SPEAKER_01: Wait, did Dakota just use like a 90s 2000?
1:24:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he does that.
1:24:32
SPEAKER_00: That's weird.
1:24:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he gets mad.
1:24:34
SPEAKER_00: He gets mad and he says he goes deep.
1:24:38
SPEAKER_02: I think that that's a fair description.
1:24:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, man, that was a deep cut right there, Dakota.
1:24:42
SPEAKER_01: Shout out to you, man.
1:24:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, Herb and somebody was something special back.
1:24:47
SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you caught that,
1:24:48
SPEAKER_01: bro.
1:24:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot of New York references I don't get here.
1:24:52
SPEAKER_00: Finally in the chat, they wanted us to talk about ProBox TV.
1:24:55
SPEAKER_00: Kevin Anton is taking on Freddie Rojas.
1:24:57
SPEAKER_00: We got Brian Acosta on the undercard.
1:25:00
SPEAKER_00: Justin Paldo versus Rene Telles-Garron.
1:25:03
SPEAKER_00: Our friends at ProBox.
1:25:04
SPEAKER_00: And that confused some people that it was like more than the number that they wanted.
1:25:08
SPEAKER_00: So go through YouTube directly and you can get it.
1:25:11
SPEAKER_00: But
1:25:25
SPEAKER_00: I think Kevin Anton might,
1:25:26
SPEAKER_00: speaking of Fendora, he might be the next Fendora, maybe even better.
1:25:30
SPEAKER_00: And Freddy Rojas,
1:25:31
SPEAKER_00: talented amateur,
1:25:32
SPEAKER_00: I think this is going to be a rough one to take on short notice to fight
1:25:35
SPEAKER_00: a guy like Anton.
1:25:36
SPEAKER_00: But just wanted to mention that before we got out.
1:25:40
SPEAKER_00: I love that Poldo and Garone fight.
1:25:43
SPEAKER_00: That's a hell of a matchup right there.
1:25:45
SPEAKER_00: It's a very good fight.
1:25:46
SPEAKER_00: So if you're not doing anything on Friday and you got nothing to do
1:25:48
SPEAKER_00: and you don't mind spending $5, it's a worthy cause.
1:25:53
SPEAKER_02: By the way, if Justin wins that fight,
1:25:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how much longer the guys in top seven can avoid him.
1:25:59
SPEAKER_02: I think he's really made his case the last two years.
1:26:02
SPEAKER_02: And the antithesis of Jamal Charlo is Justin Pauldo.
1:26:06
SPEAKER_00: I think that's also why I brought it up for Schofield.
1:26:09
SPEAKER_00: Two Texas guys.
1:26:11
SPEAKER_00: It's a Texas fight.
1:26:13
SPEAKER_00: We need more like state rivalries, I think, in boxing.
1:26:16
SPEAKER_00: Like who's the king of the state?
1:26:18
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of Charlo, who was the guy that he fought?
1:26:21
SPEAKER_00: Charles something or another.
1:26:23
SPEAKER_00: Remember, he was from Dallas and Charlo.
1:26:26
SPEAKER_00: And it was like a good fight because it was like a Texas fight.
1:26:29
SPEAKER_00: It was like a regional rivalry.
1:26:31
SPEAKER_00: So even though the matchup wasn't a big fight outside of Texas,
1:26:34
SPEAKER_00: I got excited because there was animosity there.
1:26:37
SPEAKER_00: From the region about how good it was.
1:26:40
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like Paldo versus Schofield, it's like there's a good generational gap.
1:26:45
SPEAKER_00: It's a Texas fight.
1:26:46
SPEAKER_00: There's two different regions.
1:26:47
SPEAKER_00: The regions probably don't get along.
1:26:50
SPEAKER_00: Guys from the Houston area probably think they're better than guys from the San Antonio area.
1:26:54
SPEAKER_00: I think that that to me personally,
1:26:57
SPEAKER_00: that's a fight I would love to see made in whatever,
1:27:00
SPEAKER_00: like what's the San Antonio,
1:27:02
SPEAKER_00: Abe's the arena head,
1:27:03
SPEAKER_00: but what's the San Antonio venues we could go to if that was where They made
1:27:08
SPEAKER_00: the fight.
1:27:09
SPEAKER_01: That would be the Spurs little arena.
1:27:11
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember what the name of it is.
1:27:15
SPEAKER_01: No Alamo Dome?
1:27:16
SPEAKER_01: We can't do the Alamo Dome?
1:27:17
SPEAKER_01: Nah, not that one.
1:27:18
SPEAKER_01: Too big?
1:27:19
SPEAKER_01: No, you're going to...
1:27:21
SPEAKER_01: What I would probably do is I would make that the co-feature
1:27:25
SPEAKER_01: to Virgil Ortiz versus Jamel Charlo in Dallas.
1:27:28
SPEAKER_01: That's what I would do.
1:27:29
SPEAKER_00: Who's the backup replacement in case something happens?
1:27:34
SPEAKER_02: Earl Spence.
1:27:36
SPEAKER_02: EJ?
1:27:37
SPEAKER_02: Jamal Charlo.
1:27:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh, man.
1:27:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, guys.
1:27:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's been the show this week.
1:27:43
SPEAKER_00: Go to FightsATW.
1:27:44
SPEAKER_00: It's one of the best websites you can go to.
1:27:46
SPEAKER_00: FightsATW.com.
1:27:48
SPEAKER_00: You see it behind Abe.
1:27:49
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Abe, for joining the show.
1:27:51
SPEAKER_00: And Dakota, thank you so much for coming in.
1:27:54
SPEAKER_00: I know you've been sick all week and working very hard,
1:27:56
SPEAKER_00: but I think the listeners that are our friends and family of
1:28:00
SPEAKER_00: the show really appreciate Yeah, no doubt, man.
1:28:03
SPEAKER_00: Don't hurt nobody today.
1:28:04
SPEAKER_00: You already know, bro.