Latest / The Connected Mom / How Good Stories Help Us Heal
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- Becky Harling (00:02.793) to the Connected Mom Podcast, where we have real conversations helping you to connect more deeply with God, more empathically with your fellow moms, and more intentionally with your child. I'm Becky Harling, your host, and I have with me today my amazing illustrious co-host, Sarah Wildman. Hey, Sarah. Sarah Wildman (00:25.026) Hello, Becky. Man, it's so good to be in our second season of the Connected Mom podcast. And we actually have a first. for our listeners. Let's tell them more about that. Becky Harling (00:36.029) Yeah, we do. So we decided, Sarah and I were talking and we decided it would be so much fun to have a novelist, you know, because sometimes our conversations are real, real serious. And sometimes we're all about the nonfiction authors, but we thought, well, why not have a novelist on? And so it's a privilege for me to introduce you to Nicole Dease. She is one of my favorite my adult daughter was supposed to bring in the package that was coming with Nicole's book. And she told me, well, mom, I have to confess, I almost stole it and read it first. I told her she couldn't do that because I needed to get ready for this podcast. But Nicole writes wonderful novels. And I kind of believe that every mama out there needs to read a good novel and just relax. So this one is for you. Nicole's novels are humorous and heartfelt. Most of them are hope-filled romance ones. She's won all kinds of awards. She writes for Bethany House Publishers. When she's not working on her next contemporary romance, she can usually be found reading by a window overlooking the inspiring beauty of the inland Northwest. She lives in small town Idaho with her happily ever after hubby. two towering over her teen sons, one princess daughter with the heart of a warrior. And I just am so excited to introduce you to Nicole. You are going to love this podcast, girls. So Nicole, tell us a little bit about your family, how you got started into writing fiction. I mean, what led you to all this? Nicole Deese (02:24.793) Yeah, well, let me just first say I'm just so thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. What a privilege and yay for being the first novelist. This is so fun. So thank you for letting me be on the show. Becky Harling (02:37.117) Yeah, we should have an award for you, really. Nicole Deese (02:41.821) I'll wear it. If you make me a button, I'll wear it. Yeah, so we live in North Idaho, so very, very close to Canada, just about an hour and a half away. And we moved where we are about nine years ago. I've been married for almost 20 years. Like you said, I have two sons who are giants. I have my oldest is 17. He's 6'6", really big guy. Becky Harling (02:45.452) Okay. Becky Harling (03:08.914) Wow. Nicole Deese (03:10.653) And my husband's only 6'4", so he's now surpassed my husband. And then my 15-year-old, he is very tall as well, he's probably almost 6'4", and then our little bitty daughter, who is almost 13, she would love to be almost 16, almost 13, and we adopted her from China when she was seven, and she is just my little best friend. So we love where we are. I write full-time pretty much and it really started maybe when I was, like I've always loved story. I've always had such a heart for story. I loved telling stories. I never really thought I would write novels. But then around 30, we moved from where my husband and I both grew up. We met when we were in youth group when we were 15. Becky Harling (03:48.56) Mm. Nicole Deese (04:06.277) So we had left kind of this, our home church that we had known forever and all of our community and friends and family that we had grown up with to, he was kind of transferred in his job to Texas. And so we were in this middle of, you know, brand new place, new nobody, and all I had was the library and these two little toddlers. And so I thought, well, you know, I guess I'll get back into reading. I'd always loved reading. And so it was through kind of this voracious, need to read that I was like, maybe I looked at my husband one night after finishing a series of like reading a book a day kind of thing. And I looked at him and I said, I think I want to do this. And he said, do what? I said, I think I want to write, I said, I think I want to write like an actual book. And he's like, okay, do it. And that was the discussion. That was it. That was, that was all period. And then, yeah, I started, I literally started about a week later and just started writing and I never have stopped. So that was about 11 years ago. And I, the journey has been wild. The journey has been kind of all topsy turvy. Life has happened, moves have happened, children have happened, adoptions have happened, but Shalora just continues to place stories on my heart and I love. to write and tell those in the timing that he gives me. Becky Harling (05:34.069) Love that so much. And before we get to the next question, I do have a question. If you have two sons who are both over six feet, what in the world do you feed them and how do you keep up with your food bill? Nicole Deese (05:48.837) That is like everyone talks about you're gonna be so sad about empty nesting and I'm like that is probably very true Like I already get teared up about it, but I will not be sad about the grocery bill. Like it'll be very Wonderful to pass on the grocery expenses Like make sure you talk please well You know, so yes, especially in the summer it's this Becky Harling (06:04.573) No kidding. Sarah Wildman (06:06.29) Right. Seriously. That's funny. So there is no good story without good characters. I know that much about novels. And could you give us a little bit of Nicole Deese (06:16.751) I'm just, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. I'm just, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. Becky Harling (06:23.557) Yeah. Sarah Wildman (06:35.286) the background on inspiration for your characters, especially in this new book and how you landed on their names. That's a super fun thing to know. Nicole Deese (06:44.653) Oh, okay. So yeah, so in The Words We Lost, that story is pretty unique. I've only had this happen one other time with characters where I was actually finishing up another novel and I'd had no ideas at all for The Words We Lost. I didn't even know, I didn't know anything. I was kind of finishing up the last contract and I remember just sitting in my living room and so I wasn't trying to brainstorm or anything and I just kind of got this. blood of an idea. And I knew that I wanted to write a book surrounding a manuscript, a missing manuscript, kind of that this idea of like, what would it be like to have had an author write something that then she passes away. And so from there, like I kind of saw two or three scenes in my mind, like a movie. And then because of those scenes, those characters just kind of developed pretty naturally from. you know, from the scenes that I saw, like I knew what kind of characters would need to be involved, I knew that there would need to be a writer, and I knew that there would need to be someone that was close enough into that writer's life to have great influence, and then I thought of an editor, and then what the editor would be going through, and then I thought, well, there has to be a lot of interest, and so how is he kind of at play? So it kind of developed really organically. Sometimes, like not all the time that happens, sometimes characters are a little bit more tricky to figure out, like. what their wounds need to be or what their goals need to be, that this story kind of, I think just because of those initial movies in my mind, I kind of had a pretty funnels focused, kind of vision for them and their names. So I'm trying to remember, Cece, I love nicknames so much. So I always have a character with at least like one nickname. So Cece I think was just... Becky Harling (08:37.111) Mm-hmm. Nicole Deese (08:43.341) I think I might've been scrolling through a list of names in her stack out. Joel was, I have always wanted to use that name and I just didn't have a character that fit that very well until him. And so I was like, yep, this is the one for him. And then Ingrut took me a while. I actually asked my sister-in-law, who's one of my best friends, I was like, what's like a really unique kind of different name that you haven't heard for a while? And she literally, she's not like really big into reading and stuff, so. But she's like, one time we had this exchange student at our house and her name was Ingrid and I was like, done. So that's how that happened. So. Becky Harling (09:20.853) That's such a great story. I love that. Yeah. I love that. And this is a very unique book, Nicole. I love the way, I mean, I read it cover to cover. I mean, I have to quick finish it before my daughter steals it, right? But, so I read the whole thing cover to cover and love it and highly recommend it, but it delves into friendship so deeply and Sarah Wildman (09:22.544) How fun. Collaborative. Becky Harling (09:49.401) I love the way you wove that together through this story, these three friends. And before we get to their friendship, why do you think it's a good idea for moms to read novels? I mean, they're always trying to improve themselves or read a book about how to be a better parent or how to up their discipline or how to down their discipline or how to be creative. But why are novels a good idea? Nicole Deese (10:12.702) Yeah. Nicole Deese (10:17.133) I think that you just said it actually. I know about a few years ago, a different sister-in-law of mine had twins. And so she was very, very busy. And I remember her husband, so my husband's brother reached out to me and he was like, I need you to help my wife. And I was like, well, what do you mean help you? And he said, she is so like, she has a sliver of time. And she, and with that sliver of time, she's like, you know. 10 different entities, right? So she's, you know, trying to get her work out in and she's trying to get all of her self, I don't want to call it self-help, but you know, Christian living and all, you know, all of these kinds of great, you know, non-fiction, you know, pieces that improve and all the things that we're trying to do to work on ourselves, but he's like, but she doesn't rest. And then, you know, and so he's like, I need you to recommend some books. And so we kind of brainstormed some things and she reads me, but. Becky Harling (10:56.372) Yeah. Nicole Deese (11:12.761) kind of gave her some other things. And she wrote me about, that was at Christmas time a couple years ago. And about three or four months in, she was like, oh my gosh, I forgot how much I loved and needed fiction. She's like, just a gift of story, the gift to kind of, it's that portable magic quote that we have when we think about books, like there's this portable magic that we get to carry. And I think right now, I'm so guilty of this. I did this last night, so I will be. Becky Harling (11:27.241) Mm. Nicole Deese (11:43.005) I just got off a deadline yesterday. It was a brutal last week. And so I always have an audio book that I'm kind of in, but last night I did the thing where I like lay down and I lose an hour and a half just scrolling on my phone, you know, and I think that, man, that does not re-energize me. That gives me nothing. At the end of that, I'm such an empty... Becky Harling (11:45.907) Mm-hmm. Nicole Deese (12:05.689) that's such an empty waste, you know? And I actually thought, I have three books right now that I've been wanting to read, and I just wasted this time just because I was tired. So I think that there is a gift in the beauty of being in a novel, of actually learning something, of empathizing with people, of laughing, of being into a story and letting our mind actually, you know, take root in something that has value rather than this kind of emptiness that we can scroll through when we're in the place to just kind of... Becky Harling (12:20.873) Hmm. Nicole Deese (12:35.771) and relax and recharge. Becky Harling (12:39.169) I love that so much. And by the way, my daughter, one of my daughters has identical three-year-old twins. She also needs a good rest. So she takes my novels as well. I buy them and they borrow them. Nicole Deese (12:46.376) Bye! Nicole Deese (12:56.782) You're basically a library. Becky Harling (12:59.601) Right, basically, yes, basically I am, yeah. Nicole Deese (13:03.525) Yeah. Sarah Wildman (13:03.675) Exactly. So Nicole, on this podcast, we love talking about connection with our name, the Connected Mom. And we know that connection with friends is so important, you know, in this journey. So in your book, The Words We Lost, you tell the story of friendship between three individuals. And even though they're not mothers, Becky was pointing out that they still exemplified loyalty, acceptance, forgiveness. So just personally, why are those qualities so important in our friendships? Nicole Deese (13:37.313) And I think to have a friendship and not have those qualities would be not a very deep or valuable friendship for either person. And really I was thinking about this question and I think the most obvious answer is if Christ is our model, he exemplifies all of these things. To love well is to the way that he accepts, the way that he's so faithful. Sarah Wildman (13:48.642) Hmm Nicole Deese (14:04.113) And the way that he you know forgave you know all of us just this Beautiful gift that he's given and so I think that to have any kind of friendship of true worth Is to be willing to be vulnerable is to be willing to You know be exposed I guess you know at the same level and be willing to invite people in To our world and I always think you know I talked to a lot of women at church and small group and Sarah Wildman (14:24.518) Mm. Nicole Deese (14:33.669) different events that we have in women's ministry. And, you know, I hear so often that women are like, you know, I want this kind of friend. And there's always this moment of like, well, are you that kind of friend? You know, are you willing to offer that kind of forgiveness, that kind of loyalty, that kind of acceptance of others, because, you know, it works both ways. And so I think that whenever we're wanting something in the realm of friendship, we have to first examine our own hearts. And are we giving that in? Becky Harling (14:46.507) Mm-hmm. Sarah Wildman (14:57.449) Right. Nicole Deese (15:03.201) I have a friend who, I'm 41, so I have now kind of different pods of friends, but I have a friend who has really walked with me for about 25 years, back when I was dating my husband, to getting married, to having my boys, to adopting our daughter, to losing my sister. So all of these different life experiences. Becky Harling (15:11.637) Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (15:26.885) Mm. Nicole Deese (15:29.145) When I look back and I think, well, what are the gifts of that relationship? And I can go, you know, we were able to say, we were on this committed journey together to love each other well, to be in each other's lives. And sometimes that looked like her giving 80% when I was at 20%. Sometimes that looked like us being 50-50, but it always looked like us keeping short accounts and us being able to accept where each other was at. Becky Harling (15:39.465) Mm-hmm. Nicole Deese (15:57.669) and offer forgiveness when we mess up. And so, and I think that's the value of a beautiful connection and relationship. Becky Harling (16:01.993) No. Becky Harling (16:08.877) I love that. And I love in your book the way you have the two girl characters, the two main ones, Cece and Ingrid, they both are very wounded. They would consider themselves broken. And interestingly enough, both of them have father wounds and that kind of plays out in the story. You know, how does our brokenness impact our ability? be able to make and keep good friends. I feel like you touched on that a lot in the novel. Nicole Deese (16:45.113) Yeah, man, yeah, for sure you see that with Ingrid, my main character. I think that it does exactly what you say. You know, our brokenness can really act like a barrier, you know, to the people in our lives. And when we're not willing to kind of expose that to the light and to kind of, you know, whether it's through humility or whether it's just... Becky Harling (17:00.341) Mm-hmm. Nicole Deese (17:14.809) you know, the fear of, you know, being hurt again, the self-protectionist, whatever that is. Like if we're building walls, then we're pushing people further away and we're taking on narratives that were never ours, you know, to live through or live by. And we really watch that in Ingrid through the death of her friend and kind of all of these barriers that she's keeping up to self-protect. But then it really starts to pull her away, to isolate her, which is exactly what. Becky Harling (17:34.626) Mm-hmm. Nicole Deese (17:44.113) course the enemy does in our lives. But you know I think that we can only be as close as we're willing to be vulnerable and so the journey really all of you know my characters you know all three of them really have to go through is being willing to kind of expose what are those places of brokenness so that they can you know they can actually walk toward you know together. Becky Harling (17:54.47) Yeah. Becky Harling (18:14.273) Hmm. I love that. Sarah Wildman (18:17.198) That's awesome. So another theme that runs through your book is grief. And that, at first glance, wouldn't always be part of a romance novel. But you've built that in. So what made you decide to put that theme of grief in there? Nicole Deese (18:34.105) Yeah, I do tend to put a lot of things in romance novels that don't typically belong. So that's become part of my life now, I think. I do a lot for that to be, but it's like, oh, you're writing a book about this and this? Yes, I'm putting those things together. You know, it just kind of always seems, I don't know why, but. So with this story, so I lost. Becky Harling (18:39.644) and Sarah Wildman (18:39.802) awesome. Sarah Wildman (18:49.206) Awesome. Complex. I love it. Nicole Deese (19:01.525) my sister about 10 years ago, she was 26 in a car accident and the youngest of four in our sibling set and that obviously was very radical life-changing event for our whole family. You know, so many multifaceted components of grief and how they play out in my parents and other siblings and my sister was engaged at the time, so her fiance, so all of these Sarah Wildman (19:07.606) Um. Becky Harling (19:09.726) Yeah. Becky Harling (19:17.undefined) Hmm. Nicole Deese (19:31.269) you know, kind of ripple effects of this. And so I think just being a novelist, I was only about a year into my writing when that happened. And I always knew that at some point I would need to deal with the brief through writing, but really I didn't for a very long time. There was times where I thought, well, maybe I'm ready. And then it was like, nope, I'm not ready. So that same time that I was sitting on the couch and kind of thought of these... characters and kind of had that little, I don't want to call it a vision, but those movies in my mind. There was just this piece that pressed upon my heart that I had never felt before. This will be her 10th, this is the 10th year of my sister's passing this year and I had this just overwhelming piece like it's time and I Sarah Wildman (20:06.806) Hmm? Hmm. I'm not sure what that is. I don't know. Becky Harling (20:23.473) Hmm. Sarah Wildman (20:24.847) Wow. Nicole Deese (20:26.701) you know, can I do this? Like, can I actually do this? This is going to be so exposing. This is going to be so vulnerable for me to even write about grief in this way because it has been experienced, you know, by myself. And I just felt the Lord's hand over and over and over through the whole process and even to I write about that in my author's note at the end of the story. But even at the end, even Becky Harling (20:52.71) Mm-hmm. Nicole Deese (20:55.453) literally writing that author's note, which I put off for the entire novel until the very last minute I had to turn my book in. I think I was writing it until about three in the morning and I was turning my book in at eight in the morning the next day. So it was a close window and even then I felt like the Lord's hand was so gracious to just say this is the time and it was the single most healing thing because of so many other things that the Lord had walked me through with grief. Becky Harling (21:00.753) Yeah. Becky Harling (21:06.716) Yeah. Becky Harling (21:11.329) Mmm. Sarah Wildman (21:18.96) This is time. Nicole Deese (21:25.317) that this book really became very healing and therapeutic for me to write, and it was the right time. Sarah Wildman (21:35.383) Wow. Becky Harling (21:37.469) I really want to thank you for including that, Nicole. I did read your author's note at the end of the book and I know the place of writing from personal pain and that can be really, really challenging, but thank you for doing that because one of the things that I loved about your novel, The Words We Lost, was how you described the grief process in Ingrid who Sarah Wildman (21:52.586) Yeah. Becky Harling (22:02.997) know, is Cece's best friend. I don't want to give away the whole novel, but Ingrid, it just has such a hard time and she's an editor and because of her grief, she can no longer even read. And I loved the way you described that because I have friends that have walked through deep grief and they find it impossible to describe it to other people. And so thank you for including that. Um, and then as I'm thinking about this, we have moms, you know, who are listening to this podcast and maybe some of them are grieving, you know, maybe it's not the loss of a best friend. Maybe it's the loss of a baby, a miscarriage, a marriage. I mean, it could be lost on so many different levels. What hope would you give somebody that's grieving? Because you, I mean, you've really walked through it. Nicole Deese (22:54.777) Yeah, man, I think that's such a beautiful way to say that too. I think all this loss is everywhere. All of us have felt some level of loss through whether it's losing someone close or whether it's the big loss of a dream or the hope of something that hasn't yet come that feels like a loss. You know, it's so predominant. Becky Harling (23:18.741) Mmm. Nicole Deese (23:25.813) I think the thing I would say, the advice that I would say is that, you know, it's minute by minute so often, right? And it's day by day. And it's, you know, I'd rather walk through a really super painful divorce about eight years ago. And I remember just telling him over and over, we would have these calls. This is just coming to me as I'm saying this, but we'd have these phone calls. And I would just say, this is not your forever. Like, this is your right now, but this is not your forever. And... Becky Harling (23:36.405) Hmm. Nicole Deese (23:54.977) And it's not that the grief is a part of our new journey, right? That the Lord is so faithful to redeem and to grow and to heal. And it doesn't seem possible in the moment of that deep pain that God can ever do anything with it. And then you're telling me about it and you look back and you go, who could he be with it? Sarah Wildman (23:55.976) Mm, it's good. Becky Harling (23:56.369) Mm. Becky Harling (24:16.861) Mm-hmm. Nicole Deese (24:21.769) I hope that even though this novel takes place in, I think, a year's time total from beginning to end, that you still see that kind of transformation of how God brings people in to be the hands and feet of Christ, how God brings in that precious community. I don't know how people get through grief at any level without Christian community. I don't. I feel like there's such beauty in that. I will always include that in my books. I think that is... Becky Harling (24:37.466) Mm. Becky Harling (24:46.151) Yeah. Sarah Wildman (24:47.213) Right. Nicole Deese (24:50.805) one of the best gifts that God's given us is that his community, whether it's other moms in our lives, a small group, you know, I'm a huge believer in that. And so I think he uses, you know, he uses community, he uses his word, he uses prayer, you know, just all of these steps that we can say yes to that when we look back in five years, in six years, in 10 years, that we can see God's faithful hand. Becky Harling (24:54.293) Mm-hmm. Nicole Deese (25:17.681) And I can say that in my own life. I'm sure you can say that in your own life. But that the deepest, darkest pain is not the forever. The forever is the walk with Christ. That's eternal. And that's where we find the transformation. Becky Harling (25:27.693) Mm. Becky Harling (25:30.845) Mm. Sarah Wildman (25:35.214) That's right. Wow, thank you. I think it's also amazing as believers that God can use that pain as horrible as it is to help us encourage others. I mean, that's really the beauty of the gospel. He just makes good out of hard. So it's such a neat thing for you to do that in a novel. So is there one or two things after someone's read your novels? Becky Harling (25:35.729) Yeah. Sarah Wildman (26:03.43) your novel, this specific one, that you would hope they take away from your story. Sarah wanted to takeaways. Nicole Deese (26:13.385) Gosh, I think my prayer always for every book is that God would do amazingly, abundantly, more than I could ever imagine with it. And that he would be glorified in it. And if something that I write can stir a reader's affection more for Christ, then that's the answer, right? And so my hope is always that. Becky Harling (26:26.601) Hmm. Nicole Deese (26:40.465) there's something in this story that stirs the affection for God, for faith, for belief, for encouragement, and that there's hope. There will always be redeeming messages from kind in my story, just because I've been redeemed. We're all being redeemed. That's the hope. That's the glory. And so I think that's probably my biggest is just that being redeemed stirred Becky Harling (26:49.149) Mm. Sarah Wildman (27:04.622) That's right. Nicole Deese (27:11.17) to be stirred in a face-taking sturd somehow and with their affections for it. Becky Harling (27:19.305) Hmm. I just love that. So this novel, The Words We Lost, is the first in a series about a pretend publishing company, Fogg Harbor Publishing. I loved that you called it Fogg Harbor Publishing. I just thought that was so great. So when can we, first of all, what can readers look forward to in the next novel and when does it come out? Sarah Wildman (27:19.434) Cool. Nicole Deese (27:46.253) just turned it in. It'll, my books always come out the spring of the following year, so it'll be April of 2024. And this next one is called The Roads We Follow, The Roads We Follow, and it has kind of light connecting themes of publishing a little bit. Like there's one consistent character kind of throughout a pretty, I make fairly light connections when I do series. Becky Harling (27:54.349) Okay, yeah. Becky Harling (28:02.153) Mm-hmm. Nicole Deese (28:15.657) So it's a totally standalone novel on its own and I'll just kind of throw out some bullet points of what it what it's about. But it is placed on a two-week cross-country road trip in a large motorhome like two-wheeler bus and it's a mom who is nearing 70 and she is kind of a inspired by Dolly Parton. Becky Harling (28:15.88) Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (28:26.151) Yeah. Nicole Deese (28:45.033) So she's this kind of country, I know, it's very, for the words you lost, a little lighter, levity. But so she is the mom of kind of this country music legend and she has three adult daughters who are married and my youngest is my heroine is this next novel. And mom kind of says, hey, we're going on this two week trip. Becky Harling (28:49.461) That's awesome, Nicole. Nicole Deese (29:12.825) She's going to kind of go relive part of this journey that she took 30 years ago. And so they are, the sisters have been quarreling for some time. There's a lot of strife in their family and their relationship. So this is going to kind of be a forced proximity situation. And then there's a bus driver who has, there's always some kind of, you know, wonderful man involved in this, in these stories. So he has a connection to the family. Becky Harling (29:39.165) Yes. Nicole Deese (29:42.213) that is secret and he is going to be on this tour as well with them with his own agenda. And so there's kind of two different mysteries going on. Reagan, my heroine, is a novelist herself, but she has been a secret novelist because it is not really welcome in their kind of country music empire for her to do what she wants to do. Sarah Wildman (29:48.171) Aww. Nicole Deese (30:12.157) There's a lot of little, I had a lot of fun writing it. But of course, because I am me, there's also lots of issues with it as well. So why not? Why not? It's important. Yeah. Well, hopefully. Yeah. There's all kinds of things. There's lots of hints to reconciliation and why it's important. Becky Harling (30:24.241) that. That's what makes you're so great. It's the issues. Yeah. Becky Harling (30:34.09) No. Nicole Deese (30:41.005) and why it's important to be truthful and that we'll never know the kind of freedom that Christ talks about without having, you know, authentic real conversations, even if they're hard. So, here we go. Sarah Wildman (30:42.435) Cool. Becky Harling (30:54.373) Yeah. So, hey, Nicole, where can our listeners get in touch with you, connect with you, buy your books, which I highly recommend. Nicole Deese (31:04.325) Thank you. So they can go to my website, just napolebees.com. I'm on all the retailers, Baker Book House, Amazon, all that kind of stuff. And then I'm most active as far as social media on Instagram. And I think that's just Napolebees' author. Pretty sure it's Napolebees' author. Becky Harling (31:24.337) Yeah. I think it is too. We'll put that, we'll make sure we put that in the show notes and we'll, yeah, because we really want you guys to buy her books. They're wonderful. You're going to enjoy them. It's a great way to relax. You know, on those nights where you've got so much on your mind and you can't fall asleep, you know, pick up one of Nicole's novels. read a little and then you'll be able to go to sleep because they're awesome. They're amazing. I love them. Thank you so much for being with us, Nicole. I'm going to close us in prayer and close us out. I can't believe the time got away from us, but it did. And so thank you for being here with us. Lord Jesus, thank you for Nicole. And we just pray blessing over her novels as they continue to come out. We pray, Father, that many lives would just be changed. as they continually see the story of transformation play out in characters. Thank you for her life. We pray blessing over her marriage, over her kids, Lord. We just pray that the rest of the summer is filled with joy and making beautiful memories. And we just thank you and praise you for her. In Jesus' name, amen. Hey friends, thanks for joining us today. And you can join us again next week for another episode of the Connected Mom podcast, where we're going to have another conversation that will be helpful to you as far as helping you to connect more deeply with God, more empathically with your friends and more intentionally with your child. Thanks for being with us today. Bye bye.