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Doing Change Right and the ROR: Return On Relationships with Dr. Loubna Noureddin · Authentic Living

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  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
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  Nice for you to be here with us again today.
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  I'm with, colleague and a friend, Doctor.
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  Lubna Louraden, of Mind Market.
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  She is the cofounder and CEO of MindMarket.
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  Lumina has been doing some special work out there in the world of organizational
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  consultancy.
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  So, Lubna, thanks so much for being here with us today.
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  Absolutely.
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  It is my delight and pleasure to be with you Roxanne.
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  So for some of our listeners, you know that Luminess has been on again.
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  In the past, and, give us the privilege of being on again.
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  So, Luna, tell us a little bit about, your background in organizational consulting and a
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  bit about your PhD, because I think, so many people Don't understand what's involved in
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  organizational, consulting, and I think that's a good place to begin.
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  Alright.
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  So, I've been in the corporate field serving inside corporate for over 25 years.
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  And for 5 years outside of it, that gives a an idea of the age.
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  I started at 15.
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  So, and I did, I was leading the organizational learning and development, function in, in
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  organizations and in it got really interested in understanding changed.
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  I wanted to understand why failed change so much in organizations.
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  And that me into the PhD process, the where, through organization leadership, did my whole
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  dissertation and work So over 10 years, change and, understanding what what are the factors
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  that influence managers, commitment, and engagement would change, and what are the
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  things that they resent.
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  And what I found out is that managers are interviewing 100 of managers.
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  Managers do not resent change on the contrary.
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  They anticipate it.
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  They welcome it.
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  What they resent is the lack of regard for the human side of change.
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  So we truly emphasize the prostacy side of change.
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  We have amazing systems out there and project managers that can implement and execute on
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  change we do not spend enough time working on the people side of church.
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  And, What can I say, Roxanne?
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  At times, this regarding the pain of what is left behind during change.
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  Could be the biggest source of of resistance to change in organizations.
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  So that's that's interesting.
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  So, it changes like this, you know, they always say that the only constant is change.
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  And but really organizationally.
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  And I think as people, we're not we're generally not good with change.
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  We may be a bit better when it's changed that we've kind of taken on ourselves, but I would
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  think for the most part, a lot of change organizationally all is often out of the hands
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  of the employee.
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  Right?
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  So I would think of when I was Yeah.
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  When I was consulting, at any given point with my portfolio, 70, 65% of the organizations that
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  I was consulting with, were in flux of some sort, you know, mergers, acquisitions,
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  rightsizing, downsizing, so so that's that's really really a constant and And I would say
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  that for the most part, as human beings, we we prefer not to have things change, but change is
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  kind of happening all the time.
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  So, Randy, so you found in your research that it's how we dealt with the impact of how people
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  deal with change, or like you said, what was leftover around change, and how companies dealt
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  with that, that's what's was one the one of the most important things that, managers were
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  looking for with change management.
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  Absolutely.
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  And, and if we look at the project management certifications, for example, the process site
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  is well done.
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  Now when it comes to relationship building, when it comes to influencing, when it comes to
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  coaching, there's a gap in terms of the human side of change, communicating the change in a
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  way that makes sense sometimes can be our easiest door in.
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  And yet we disregard it because change is happening so fast, there is no time.
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  I don't think Roxanne, there's any manager out there as executive level that does not
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  understand the importance of communicating the change.
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  I think every executive, that I have worked with truly understands the importance of
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  communicating the change, the purpose, the impact, and so forth, and building that
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  operation for implementing change.
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  What happens is knowing is different from doing.
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  So we know this is important.
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  However, we're so busy.
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  And changes happening so fast, timelines are hitting some kind of crisis and we ignore the
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  communication part.
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  And that can be detrimental to the change process.
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  About 50 to 70% of change initiatives fail.
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  The cost and organizations reported in the US alone is about $392,000,000,000 in failed
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  change.
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  So for every 2 changes in your organization, there is one that might be failing.
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  And the reasons behind it could be 1, the lack of regard for what or lack of understanding of
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  what is happening on the front line when it comes to change.
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  The second, gap could be the lack of understanding for the impact of change, but the
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  third one is the lack of buying.
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  To the change itself.
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  When we do not have buy in, change may fail.
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  And there's many, many examples and many case studies of how change can be done right.
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  I've seen, case studies from HPCL, for example, a huge Indian company that were the CO knew
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  that there was tremendous change happening, major disruption to the workplace.
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  And this is about, an 11,000 organization, 11,000 employee organization, And him and his
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  executive team decided that we need to do this well and we need to start from the bottom up.
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  The vision was changing.
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  The purpose was changing.
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  And the global impact of the company was changing, but they went from the bottom up and
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  started teaching and having conversations about the change with their frontline and
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  intentionally, training sessions for each and every level until the very top.
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  Everyone was involved in a change, and every single person had the opportunity to understand
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  what is happening and what could be possible.
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  And the rewards for the company are documented in many, many journals, including the fact that
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  the vision became so big way beyond what the CEO even imagined because of involving the
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  employees.
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  So sometimes, The disregard for the human impact on the change can be a reason for
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  failure.
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  So let's let's think, you know, my thought is if we know it's such a high level of loss
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  across the, you know, the US and globally.
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  What is it that people remiss of think like putting that strategy in place.
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  If we know 50 to 75% of gene strategies fail, why don't you think companies take the time or
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  make the effort with this data that's out there.
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  Oh, one, it may not be known or common.
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  It may not be common knowledge that change initiatives fail.
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  Another reason is when there's a change in the executive level, whatever change is happening
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  there it's put to the side and a new person comes in, new change initiatives come in with
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  that person.
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  So that's another one where the change is put to the side it fails.
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  It may have been doomed to fail, but they don't know that because there's a new person on
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  board.
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  And whenever you have a new executive on board, new change is happening.
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  So that constant feeling of change can be, processed that creates fatigue or the executive
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  team for the senior level team and for the middle manager.
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  And when you talk about the middle manager, they're in the middle wrote an articles for
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  Forbes on the role of the middle manager.
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  Middle manager has to manage up and needs to manage down.
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  They need to be the yesers for the app and the influencers and engagers for the bottom.
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  It said that we're also exhausting and we cannot continue to force change to a fire hose.
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  If people are choking, It is truly time to stop and consider what specifically do we want to
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  change and what is the priority?
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  You know, I I talk, I coach executive managers and executive leaders.
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  And when they say we have so many priorities, it's like an oxymoron.
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  This priority is supposed to be 1.
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  What is the one thing that is most important to focus on today, this week, next week, this
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  month, this quarter, And when you have too many of those, nothing is important.
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  Everything becomes the same.
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  So having a clear understanding of what is priority can also help change succeed.
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  So we talked about first one the change in senior leadership.
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  The second one is the amount of crisis happening in the world that shifts things every
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  day.
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  So gears change.
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  You're not enough attention paid to that.
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  And the third one is not enough time.
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  Executives know the importance of communication.
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  It just becomes secondary or of less importance.
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  To more timelines and deadlines and crisis management.
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  And that is the answer in the wheel experience that many managers feel.
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  Again and again, I speak to managers and the common team I found especially, among female
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  leaders is having to work all day with no time to finish their work Go home to their family,
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  take care of family, take care of their, and then go back to their laptops.
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  Dinner to work until the late hours to be able to do work because during the day, there is no
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  time And I'm talking about emails that are in the 2000 and the 3000 unopened emails.
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  It's time to do something about it.
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  So,
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  Well, actually, like, I mean, absolutely because with that trajectory, burnout's
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  inevitable.
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  And and we know that we're seeing so many companies are dealing with the issue of
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  burnout.
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  So that's, you know, let's talk a little bit about, something that's, I think, present now.
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  In 2023, most people are asking that all their most of their employees go back to work.
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  So that's a massive change that's coming.
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  Right?
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  Because we kind of are to, you know, working from home completely where we had to go through
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  major change.
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  So I'm sure you're You would definitely, busy with that.
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  And then we had to go to, okay, how do we electronically get set up how do we use virtual
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  like we're using now as as a as a, you know, a normal thing which we didn't have that scale,
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  which was a whole other change And then we had to go to how do I manage, you know, you know,
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  in person versus hybrid.
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  And now we're saying companies are giving the directive that we want to get people back to
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  work.
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  So that's, I would say, the most pressing change that I, can see with my business and and
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  clearly definitely with what you deal with.
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  So Let's talk a little bit about that, Lucna.
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  Like, what do you think about this, first of all?
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  I think it's it's funny you mentioned that because I'm working with a client and their
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  policy for the previous model has not been complete yet.
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  So there are a lot of people struggling with this.
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  And, I wrote an article by the way, Roxanne, about this specific you and Forbes as well.
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  It's an article that I published last month, and understanding what is the benefit of the
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  model of choice is of critical importance.
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  I know of a of a few CEOs that I'm working with closely on this challenge.
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  And sometimes we need to really think about what do I want them to the office for.
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  So being intentional about when to ask them to come versus not come, because a lot of people
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  would rather go find another company and work virtual.
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  Others prefer to be in the office.
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  So having clear conversations with the employees, understanding their wants and needs,
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  and then balancing that with what the organization needs, is of critical importance.
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  I know someone right now who has invested 1,000,000 of dollars in a new huge building for
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  employees.
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  And there's that challenge, you know, the challenge between I want them all back versus
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  what makes sense.
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  I think it's important to stop to understand what employees want.
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  So we don't lose them for another company.
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  And then have a balance of what you want versus what they want.
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  If their job can be done completely online, How can we not lose that sense of community?
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  This serendipity that happens when you're in the office, you know, the coffee conversations
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  that we do How can we not lose that and yet be able to support, you know, younger parents with
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  children?
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  Or older generation employees who are dealing with their parents being ill or needing more
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  attention.
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  So there's a lot going on.
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  We need to manage and yet it's important to ask your employees what's best for them and then
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  come up with a solution that balances out.
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  We cannot just say, for one back to the office, no exceptions and expect for an overnight to
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  happen.
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  It will happen.
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  Because, I mean, we were already hearing so much about quiet quitting.
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  I don't think it's going to be so quiet if people often are being told, they have to come
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  back to work.
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  So I think in the first quarter, of 2023, it will be interesting to see, like you said, in
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  reference to needs and wants, an overall kind of, you know, goals for the company, and trying
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  to find the balance.
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  Like, some environments I to your point, some employees wanna go back to work.
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  They've, you know, they've they're recognizing that they, you know, they're they're better.
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  They're more productive.
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  They need the connection and others are better, like you said, based on, the stage and age of,
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  you know, where they are an at in their lives, it may be that the hybrid model works, and so
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  others just would prefer to be virtual.
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  It's it's up to the the senior leadership team and the CEO, like you're saying, to make those
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  decisions.
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  But there's a bit of pressure now that people are saying, hearing all most companies are
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  saying that people need to get back to work.
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  And so I think that will be interesting to see how that shakes out.
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  Because is it that people are gonna, you know, like the Elon Musk's of the world that we've
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  been seeing on Twitter where he's telling people to go back and the and, you know, the
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  press that he's getting, you know, hopefully people are recognizing, some of the things that
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  you're saying, which is you know, you may have, you know, a multimillion dollar investment that
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  you need to protect, but if you're not thinking about you know, the cross section of what's in
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  front of you, percentage wise in reference to needs and wants of your, you know, your diverse
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  population, then then what?
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  Right?
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  The investment, or the return or the loss may be that much more dramatic long term, if you're
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  not kind of looking at what's really in front of you.
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  You know, absolutely, Roxanne, and and holding the conversation, having the space, making the
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  space for these conversations to happen.
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  It's it's a time consuming, support system.
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  However, it's so important because then you understand your own team and your unique needs
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  for this organization.
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  I think a balance might be a great recipe for some.
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  It's not necessarily the best thing for all.
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  However, holding open conversations with staff allowing people to identify and feel the loss,
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  let them express the loss of whatever they had, the habits they are used to.
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  And to your point, it's it's important to have, to go back to the office and to have these
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  relationships happen.
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  It is not important across the board.
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  Some people thrive in being alone and some people thrive in being in groups and how can we
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  create the balance for both?
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  It's it's not an easy situation.
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  However, it is easily recognizable by having conversations with your teams, understanding
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  their needs, their wants, and their limitations, and their fears.
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  Some of my fears may not be valid to you but at least understanding them and holding that space
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  would help you shift forward with decisions that make sense for all.
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  This was such a great interview that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
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  Be sure to tune in next week for part 2.
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  So you don't miss out on the amazing content.
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  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive health
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  change.
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  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
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  roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
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  We'll see you next time.
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  An authentic living with Roxanne.