Latest / Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson / Ep 6: Lisa Diersen - Equus Film Festival

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Ep 6: Lisa Diersen - Equus Film Festival · Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

• 0:05
  Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who
• 0:09
  have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they
• 0:14
  got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them.
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  How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success,
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  and most importantly, find joy.
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  I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.
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  New York Times bestselling author of the Horse Boy.
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  Founder of New Trails Learning Systems and long ride home.com.
• 0:36
  You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.
• 0:42
  Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free.
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  where we talk to people who are living self-actualized lives, people who
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  are effectively living the dream, , how have they managed to do it?
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  What does it mean for them, their dream?
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  , what can we learn from them?
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  , how can mentorship from them help us?
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  To achieve our dreams too, , and to live free and ride free in
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  the way that's right for us.
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  So, , today I've got, Lisa Dison.
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  , Lisa Deon runs something rather unique called the Equus Film Festival.
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  That's right.
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  It's a film festival dedicated to telling stories, through the medium of the horse.
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  And, , people might think, well, that's a bit niche.
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  That's a bit, you know, but actually, no.
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  It's one of those worlds that crosses over into so many other worlds because
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  there's so many people that like horses, and yet there's so many people that
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  like film and there's so many people that like story, and there's so many
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  people that are either on the fringe of that or right in the middle of it.
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  You, if you, if you look up any list of Hollywood as you'll see that at least
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  half of them are into horses in some way.
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  And if you like, the horse represents, I think, to humans, an idea of dream,
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  an idea of allegory, an idea of a lot of people think about horses, , and
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  use terminology around horses.
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  Oh, she's a real stallion.
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  Oh, you know, he, he's a bit of a wild stallion.
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  Oh, you know, rain reign in that thought.
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  Curb your enthusiasm.
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  , you know, all of these things actually come from horses and.
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  Something like Equus Film Festival sits square in the middle of, I think what
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  horses mean is a metaphor for humans.
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  But Lisa Tierson's made an absolute success out of this.
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  , Lisa, thank you for coming on the show.
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  Hi Rupert.
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  Thank you for having me.
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  Oh, it's, it's, it's, it's such a treat.
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  Lisa, I've known you for quite a while, 15 years or something like that.
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  Something like, I remember when, we were meeting at horse shows, both of us are
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  enthusiasts of the Lucit horse breed.
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  and then I remember you saying, oh yeah, I've got this idea.
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  I, I think I wanna do this film festival, and yeah, it won't be, it
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  won't be, you know, anything big.
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  It's just, yeah, I just kind of wanna give it a go.
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  And now it's huge and it's international.
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  So tell us how you got there.
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  Why, why, why, why did you come up with this idea?
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  Lisa Diersen: You simply put, you and your documentary about your son were the
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  reason that this film festival got started and, and yeah, going back and thinking
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  back at, the Andalusian show in Texas and seeing your film the first time, and
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  I remember being so moved because it, it lit me up literally because I felt that.
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  Wow.
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  Here's what's missing in, in the world.
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  People don't feel enough empathy for what someone else is going
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  through, whether it's the family unit, what you all went through.
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  , now with us, with Josh, because I have a Down syndrome grandson who we've made
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  a documentary about as well, the general public doesn't, doesn't have that empathy.
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  When they see a family with this crying screaming child, they automatically think,
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  oh, something's wrong with those parents.
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  Or get that kid in line.
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  And when I saw your documentary and I saw the struggle, which it truly was at
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  that time, a, a struggle because it's a journey that's led you so many places.
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  I went, oh my gosh, I want everybody I know to see this film.
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  Because it, it, the story is so important and not because it was a horse story,
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  because of course I love it cuz it's a horse story, but mainly because of
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  the, the deeper felt message and kind of what you were talking about earlier.
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  You know, I, how many films we've had in the festival that center around
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  mental health issues, physical limitations, veterans who, who
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  contemplate committing suicide.
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  Youth in Crisis, all of these, this general public encompassing
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  our world of people in crisis.
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  And what's the thing that's out there to help all of them?
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  It's the horse and it's telling those stories with the horses and, and we've
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  had so many of those documentaries in the festival and they're so powerful.
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  No matter where I show 'em or when I show 'em, people leave in tears
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  because of the power of that.
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  So that's, that was the catalyst that made the whole festival start Simply put you,
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  Rupert Isaacson: well, you're very kind.
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  and you know, it was amazing of you to, to have us there with the Horse
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  Boy movie at the, at the first, at the first film festival, in New York.
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  But there must have always been in your mind, oh, , since you were a little girl.
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  Something around Story and Horse.
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  Take us back to when you were small.
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  What, did you have an idea like this was something cooking or was it
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  an am Amal gum of, of other ideas?
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  What, what, what, what started it all off?
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  Lisa Diersen: Oh, I, well, I've always, always been around horses.
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  My grandmother had horses, a pony.
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  I always had a little pony spark plug was my first Pony's name.
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  And where did you grow
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  Rupert Isaacson: up, by the way,
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  Lisa Diersen: Lisa?
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  I grew up outside of Chicago in a, in a suburb called La Grange.
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  But my parents' family lived down in Kentucky.
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  So on my grandmother's farm, every summer we'd go down and spend time
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  with the, with her at the farm and the horses and, and the pony
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  and you know, always being around.
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  And we would always take this pony out and create games and tell stories and, create
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  little alternate, towns and things to do.
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  And we were different people with those, with the pony.
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  And to tell st tell storytelling, I think somewhere in the back of my mind
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  always wanting to tell, tell stories or at least share stories, has something
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  that's, I've always kind of always wanted to, always had back there, percolating
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  then kind of life gets in the way and I ended up in the engineering field of
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  all things, for, for quite a while.
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  And then building houses and the horses were always the constant.
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  I always either had a horse or was riding or involved with horses, involved with
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  teaching young people with pony club.
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  I went through many years of being, Un mounted pony club instructor for all
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  the D level, for very, oh, there's the Jack Russell for a, for a long time.
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  And then, , it's just always has been there bringing
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  people together around horses.
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  Rupert Isaacson: What do you think it is about the horse that serves as
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  this, , catalytic factor, with humans?
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  Because it does, it seems that people don't even need to ride
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  to have a fascination, right,
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  Lisa Diersen: right.
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  With the horse.
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  And I, what is it, do you think?
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  Well, first of all, I believe that it's a 1200 pound electromagnetic field drawing
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  us in, and it's also a 1200 pound metaphor for everything that's in our life.
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  but I, even with my friends, I had, and I have quite a few friends that just have
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  a horse to have that horses, they, they go and they'll brush the horse at night.
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  They'll do stuff with the horse.
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  They'll long line, they'll, they'll do everything but ride the
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  horse and that's okay for them.
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  There's entire Facebook groups dedicated to people who are just the
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  non ridden horse and everybody thinks that it, you have to be in the horse
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  to, you have to ride the horse to be into horses, and that's so wrong.
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  One of the things with the film festival is people thought, well, you know,
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  the, the non, there's only so many non or out there horse people riding
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  and they don't have hours in the day.
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  There's so many non-writing horse people that are moved by these stories and
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  that magnetism of the horse that just draws them in, , from watching Misty
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  of Shin Tea when we were kids and all of those stories, there's just, we
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  talk, this is funny that you say that cuz we talk about this all the time.
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  It's a, it's part of our con general conversation when we have, our Mustang
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  summits or whatever, there's just something about these horses and when
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  we use horses in the mental health field and you see the results that
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  you can't get anywhere else with any other metaphor tool or just even simple
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  talk therapy, you can't get there where you can get there with a horse.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Talk to me about this business of being
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  in the electromagnetic field.
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  That's fascinating.
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  Okay, so you say the horse is a 1200 pound electromagnetic field.
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  How so and how does that benefit people?
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  Lisa Diersen: So when we're around another human, basically you're, you're equal.
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  We're bo we're, you know, you're, whether it's a big person or a little person,
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  basically your weights are 120 hundred.
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  30 pounds to each other.
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  You bring a horse in, it's 10 times what energy and, and feeling that we are.
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  So I think that they, I, I just think they help balance us that way.
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  It's, you can't, what, what
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  Rupert Isaacson: is, what is throwing out that electromagnetic field that you're
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  Lisa Diersen: referring to?
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  What do I, I, well, I just think it's an e I just think it's pure energy.
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  I think I, I can watch a horse across an arena at a horse.
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  You can do this at a horse show.
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  Watch a horse.
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  One horse goes crazy.
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  Everybody around it feels it.
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  And if you're a, a, a more sensitive person, temple Grandin comes to mind.
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  People who are really sensitive can feel that.
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  when you get, when you're working with horses a lot, you can feel when a horse is
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  un uncomfortable, you can feel that kind of wave, that a mare standing in a field
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  with a bunch of other mares and babies.
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  When that coyote is out across, at, at the corner of the field,
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  that one mare turns up looks.
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  And everyone can feel that just by her, her simple head, bring your head up.
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  It's just the, it's very forceful.
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  Well, the energy of the horse.
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  Yeah.
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  What
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  Rupert Isaacson: I'm, what I'm wondering about is, I,
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  you're probably aware of this.
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  I, I know that there's a, an organization.
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  Research in institute called the Heart Math Institute.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Which has been doing, yep.
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  Research into the electromagnetic fields thrown out by hearts of one kind or
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  another, and finding that the sort of, the larger the heart, the greater the
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  electromagnetic field it throws out.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So if our heart, if our relatively small hearts throughout a certain
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  electromagnetic field, this huge heart throws out a much bigger one.
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  Yes.
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  How, how, how do you feel that that benefits a human to be in the
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  presence of a greater electromagnetic field coming from a larger heart?
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  Lisa Diersen: Well, I think it's, especially with animals because, and we,
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  the bigger, the electromagnetic field is gonna be the bigger animal, definitely.
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  But if they're sentient animals like a horse or an elephant or a, a peaceful,
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  a peaceful animal, they're gonna bring that peaceful energy to you.
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  And I see it from when I used to do work in the equine assisted therapy field.
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  You what would happen when a horse would be around someone in crisis.
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  It, it's undeniable.
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  You can't, you can't work with someone and, and be in a equine assisted,
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  whether it's psychotherapy or just general therapy situation, and deny what
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  happens between a person and a horse.
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  And I think it's just because the horses are just.
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  You can't go into an arena working with a horse in a, equine-assisted
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  therapy setting with a bad attitude because the horse is gonna just
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  turn around and blow you off.
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  It will just ignore you.
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  I mean, I've seen so many amazing things happen in therapy sessions
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  that, I mean, they've, you know, there are books and films about it.
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  They're, it's just undeniable.
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  I mean, what happened with your son?
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  It's How do explain that?
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  Well,
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  Rupert Isaacson: sure.
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  And you know, when, when my son, in the early days would just lie on
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  Betsy, that was the mayor he became close to, he would lie on her back.
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  this is before we even started riding together.
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  And he would use her body like a big old couch and all of his agitated
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  behaviors would just disappear.
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  And I had no idea why until, some years later, even after we had been practicing,
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  you know, horse boy method and so on.
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  Then I, I think it was Linda Ton Jones who, who came along and said,
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  oh yes, the HeartMath Institute.
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  you, you put your heart into the close range, heart to heart
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  with a much greater electro.
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  And it's interesting that you said for peaceful animal, cuz of course,
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  I guess you could say, you know, an angry polar bear might not be
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  quite so, you know, good for us.
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  Yeah.
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  and, different type of hug.
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  and, This seems to bring our hearts into what they call coherence.
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  Meaning that the, the way in which, the rhythms of the ventricles
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  as they're pumping, become much more, stable, slow, down, slow.
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  And that seems to bring our brainwaves down at the same time, because of
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  course, hearts are composed of neurons.
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  The gut is composed of neurons and the brain is composed of neurons.
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  So it seems to then bring one from that sort of busy brain, the
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  basic, you know, to, to more of an alpha, meditative brain state.
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  Cause I didn't know any of this at the time.
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  I just, you know, observed it.
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  But it was very interesting when it was explained to me.
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  You, you said something else though, about horses metaphor, which I really like.
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  and I presume that to understand the horse as a metaphor, you don't necessarily
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  even have to be a horse person.
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  What, what do you feel horse are as a metaphor
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  Lisa Diersen: for humans?
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  I think it depends on the human and what the human is going through.
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  whether for me, the, the horse is, gosh, I think a metaphor of I
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  can do it, you know, possibility.
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  Like nothing's too big.
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  Yeah.
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  Possibility.
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  Possibility.
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  Perfect word.
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  For a veteran who's.
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  Just handed a, a letter to a therapist that said, in, before I
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  got into the equine program, I was thinking about committing suicide.
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  That horse could be a metaphor for, for living and for life
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  and for, you know, surviving.
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  we're doing, it's so funny, and I love, I've watched in the last 30 years how
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  all of these, these people who were considered fringe before, but now that the
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  science is balancing with the knowledge and, and it's all coming together.
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  even when, e equ I, when e Equine assisted Growth and Learning Association
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  started, it was not considered what it is now, which is a, a gold
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  standard for, the equine therapy field and in the psychology field.
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  So I've watched all of this kind of, these pieces come together and, and now the,
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  the general public and even non horse people are getting an understanding.
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  You know, when, when I ha have a conversation with someone who works
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  for, the veterans and administration in their, recreational therapy
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  department, because that's what equine assisted therapy is generally considered
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  with the va, it's still considered recreational therapy until there's enough.
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  Research and data and study that comes in through accredited resources that
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  they'll be able to actually bring it in as a therapeutic use with veterans.
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  But we all know everyone who's been out there, and especially now with the
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  Mustangs, because we're doing so much more with Mustang horses, watching how,
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  because of the PTs d that the Mustang horse goes through, balancing with the
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  ps, PTs d that veterans go through, whether it's an accredited program or not.
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  Those programs
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  Rupert Isaacson: work.
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  You're talking about the work, the, the, the, the trauma that, Mustang
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  goes through in being captured Yes.
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  Filed and brought
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  Lisa Diersen: into pen.
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  Yes.
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  Or even being separated because they're family based.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  The herds are, I mean, there's a huge, movement going on right now
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  to stop the helicopter around if there's actually a bill in Congress.
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  Colorado is the first state that passed legislature to, they have an
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  entire organiza or group now that's, and funding that's gonna be dedicated
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  to, taking care of the, what the Mustang issue is going on in Colorado.
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  So, and these horses form family bands, so they're going through traumas, they're
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  getting torn apart and the mares and fos are getting separated and all of that.
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  But that balance is what the veterans go through and that.
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  That works.
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  And it doesn't have to be a path or a, a gala certified
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  program with, with veterans.
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  It seems to be that as long as a group of veterans have gotten together with
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  their horses and they work with each other, if you are stopping someone from
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  committing suicide, something is working.
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  Absolutely.
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  And, and something is working with the horse.
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  But, when you talk about the heart math, that's, and that's another
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  thing that was considered kind of fringe until just recently.
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  We're doing a lot of, in fact, next week we'll be filming in Indiana, or the first,
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  first week of July, we'll be filming in Indiana for a, where we're using
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  brain-based neuro pathway release work with Mustangs and for our, our documentary
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  series, the Mustang story documentary series that we started to years ago.
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  And it works when you watch these horses in this program, it, it's
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  just amazing how well it works.
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  Waiting for those dopamine and serotonin hits and teaching the
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  horses how to give themselves those dopamine and serotonin hits.
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  Which changes the, which changes the whole training.
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  You know, there's people out there doing amazing work, which
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  is one of the, I I feel that.
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  With the film festival or with what I do just in general is I kind of
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  act as a connector for all of these stories and things out there that
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  either are, are brought to me or we find or we help get those stories out
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  to everybody else who has no idea.
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  There's still people who I refer your documentary to that sit after
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  they watch it and go, I had no idea.
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  I had no idea.
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  And now they know, and once you see, you can't unsee.
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  So now you know that horses can do this.
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  So it's your move to continue to tell that, tell people about all
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  the things that horses can do.
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  Rupert Isaacson: So what you're really talking about with, with,
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  the film festival of course is, is the healing power of story.
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  In, in your case, the stories happen to be about horses.
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  but I guess story, you know, people talk about us as, or, or, or, the
• 21:24
  name for our species is, homo sapien sapiens, the Thinking Ape.
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  But I've always thought that was a rather asinine, title for us
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  because everything thinks right.
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  If you have a brain, you think there's nothing special
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  about our species that way.
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  But we do have a larynx.
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  we speak with a speaking aid.
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  Other animals vocalize and they can vocalize obviously in a very
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  complex way, but they don't, write rap or, you know, Shakespeare or,
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  you know, epic poetry or whatever.
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  That's us with the storytelling app.
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  And it seems, you know, the time I've spent in indigenous communities,
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  with shamans and healers and that sort of thing, that story seems to
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  also be very tied up with healing.
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  in that it seems to be the original form of medicine in that even, even actually
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  in modern medicine, what happens, you go to see the doctor with a story.
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  You say, this is happening, this did happen, this has
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  happened, this is happening now.
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  what's the story?
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  You know, and the doctor goes off, the shaman would go into the spirit
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  world, you know, the doctor goes into their notes and their research, and
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  then they come back with a set of instructions and sort of create a new
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  story, which could be done through drugs.
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  It could be done through, you know, a, a psychic medium.
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  It could be not a medium in terms of connecting with the dead,
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  but in terms of, a channel, it could be done through many ways.
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  It could be both.
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  It could be all, but nonetheless, that seems to be what happens.
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  It's a storytelling process.
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  Where did storytelling begin for you, as a girl?
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  Were you always an a of story?
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  Lisa Diersen: Oh yeah.
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  I was an avid reader.
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  my mother was, Al was very ill while I was growing up, and so reading I.
• 23:05
  Reading was a great escape for me.
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  And of course it was reading every horse book that was, was ever written.
• 23:13
  and now seeing those, some of those horse books that have come in, been
• 23:16
  turned into movies and that you're, if you're a little girl and you read all
• 23:20
  the whole Black Stallion series and then you can watch the Black Stallion
• 23:24
  movie, that was, that was my escape.
• 23:27
  So reading horse horse books, I have shelves full of all the horse books
• 23:34
  that I've read as a, when I was a kid I was able to find those books.
• 23:38
  But, that's the other, one of the other things with Equus is we have
• 23:41
  all the literate, we have books.
• 23:44
  We have usually 60 or so books that get entered every year.
• 23:48
  Oh.
• 23:48
  So, you know,
• 23:49
  Rupert Isaacson: a literary festival as well as a film festival.
• 23:51
  We're
• 23:51
  Lisa Diersen: a literary, we're art, we're podcast.
• 23:54
  Okay.
• 23:55
  any form of storytelling in the equine world.
• 24:00
  Okay.
• 24:00
  We, we award that.
• 24:03
  Rupert Isaacson: so for listeners, if you've got a book, and you get
• 24:06
  writing, you might be able to submit it.
• 24:09
  what was your mother sick with?
• 24:10
  what was, what was the issue with her?
• 24:13
  Lisa Diersen: Oh, my mother had giant bone cell cancer, which back and when I was
• 24:17
  growing up, we didn't have even anywhere near the, the medicine that we have now.
• 24:23
  But, she had bone cell cancer.
• 24:24
  She had lost a leg.
• 24:26
  To that.
• 24:27
  and then at what
• 24:28
  Rupert Isaacson: age was she when that really kicked in?
• 24:30
  And what age were you?
• 24:31
  Lisa Diersen: I was, well, okay, so I remember on my 13th birthday was
• 24:35
  when they told, told us as a family that they were going to amputate her
• 24:39
  leg, but she was, okay, we go back.
• 24:43
  My brother died when I was, my mom was five months pregnant with me in
• 24:48
  a tragic accident in our basement.
• 24:51
  he fell off of a pogo stick.
• 24:53
  My older sister was bouncing him on, hit a tool and my dad's workshop, and
• 25:00
  it went into his ear and punctured his eardrum and went into his brain.
• 25:04
  And he lived maybe three days.
• 25:06
  So they didn't think that my, I, they thought my mom was gonna lose me.
• 25:11
  She didn't.
• 25:13
  But she really never recovered, I think, don't think from that point
• 25:18
  on, I think until she passed away.
• 25:22
  And she was, I, I believe 64, 65 when she passed away a actually, and it
• 25:29
  was diabetes related and her body.
• 25:32
  She just, with that moment with my brother, I just think she just, I
• 25:39
  don't rem I don't have any other memories of, as a child of her not
• 25:44
  being sad, I guess you not being
• 25:47
  Rupert Isaacson: so she, she was sick and sad all through
• 25:48
  Lisa Diersen: your childhood.
• 25:49
  Sick and sad all through my tub and my little sister should say that again.
• 25:54
  And my little sister, I had a sister that came a couple years after I
• 25:58
  was born, but she was never, my mom was never, never, well, so between
• 26:04
  being physically or mentally, she was never, never really Well.
• 26:08
  Rupert Isaacson: And your older sister who, had been bouncing your
• 26:11
  brother on the Perga six, she must have of course, suffered terribly,
• 26:14
  Lisa Diersen: guilt and so forth.
• 26:15
  Yes.
• 26:17
  Yeah.
• 26:17
  And it wasn't until probably 30 years later, and it was after my mother
• 26:22
  passed away that, I had an uncle who was a, a priest and he had a long talk
• 26:29
  with my sister where she, and then you talk about how people carry stuff.
• 26:33
  She really finally opened up and let loose and house, you know,
• 26:38
  it had affected her entire life.
• 26:40
  yeah.
• 26:41
  So, you know, you watched Yeah.
• 26:43
  And you, and so you, I grew up very acutely aware of how
• 26:47
  one action affects everything.
• 26:52
  And so you have to be, you have to consciously make decisions in your life to
• 26:59
  not, to not fall into, you know, conscious decisions in your life all the way along.
• 27:09
  Not to fall into any, you know, doing things that negatively.
• 27:13
  You need to work on positivity.
• 27:17
  Rupert Isaacson: What, tell me about your father.
• 27:18
  where was he in all this?
• 27:21
  Lisa Diersen: Oh, he was my dad.
• 27:22
  My dad.
• 27:22
  I love my dad.
• 27:23
  My dad was great.
• 27:24
  He was always there.
• 27:26
  He was, always took care of my mother.
• 27:29
  and she was not, she was not a happy person to take care of.
• 27:33
  he wa he worked all the time.
• 27:35
  So What did he do?
• 27:36
  he was a plant manager for a big aluminum rolling mill.
• 27:40
  He was a mechanical manager for that.
• 27:42
  my earl earlier, I kind, my brother who passed, I kind of
• 27:47
  took his place with my dad.
• 27:49
  So I was always kind of doing, I don't wanna call 'em boy things, but I was
• 27:55
  all my dad, there wasn't anything my dad ever told me I couldn't do.
• 28:00
  So if, if he was up fixing shingles on a roof, I was up
• 28:05
  fixing shingles on a roof with him.
• 28:07
  changing tires, I mean, learning how to change the oil in a car there if he did
• 28:13
  it, he wanted me to know how to do it.
• 28:16
  Did he teach
• 28:17
  Rupert Isaacson: all the kids?
• 28:18
  , and you just ha happened to have more of a, of an aptitude for that
• 28:22
  sort of practical stuff, or did you
• 28:24
  Lisa Diersen: all In fact, there was a, there was a big difference.
• 28:27
  my brother, my older sister was 13 years older, so I, I don't
• 28:32
  have much of a memory of her.
• 28:34
  It, she had, she got.
• 28:38
  So her youngest, her oldest daughter's the same age as my sister.
• 28:42
  So it, I don't have that memory of my older sister with
• 28:46
  my dad and my little sister.
• 28:49
  My mom was so ill at that point that, my dad spent more time taking
• 28:56
  care of that end of my mother then.
• 28:59
  So it was, no, I didn't, so I got, I was kind of always referred
• 29:03
  to as my dad's sidekick, so.
• 29:07
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 29:08
  Because you, you had a much older one, a much younger one.
• 29:10
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:11
  You were sort of in the middle and Yep.
• 29:13
  Able to middle child syndrome.
• 29:15
  Okay.
• 29:16
  Interesting.
• 29:17
  So, so you, you are, you are, you have a positive dad, but a mom who is basically
• 29:23
  sick with sadness, and grief, and you find story and you find horse stories
• 29:30
  as, as, as, as a way to escape happiness.
• 29:33
  what were the stories that really stood out for you at that age?
• 29:40
  Lisa Diersen: Black beauty?
• 29:41
  the Billy, I loved the Billy and Blaze stories.
• 29:44
  I loved the Black stallion stories.
• 29:47
  Mis misty of hin tea, you know, just always like horse hero stories.
• 29:53
  I love
• 29:53
  Rupert Isaacson: those kinds of stories.
• 29:54
  Horse hero stories.
• 29:55
  So horses that were somewhat against the odds.
• 29:59
  Yes.
• 29:59
  Like, like the black beauty story, you know, sold to bad people surviving.
• 30:05
  And that, I guess you were taking as back to the idea of the horses as a metaphor.
• 30:10
  Would you think it, it was clear to say that even if it was unconscious, you
• 30:14
  were putting yourself perhaps in the shoes, the horseshoe of, of, I was just
• 30:20
  gonna say underdog horse characters that were, that were suffering.
• 30:23
  Would, would that be correct to say, to say?
• 30:26
  Lisa Diersen: Probably, probably dead on, probably.
• 30:29
  Rupert Isaacson: Did you at some point want to tell story?
• 30:31
  Did you at some point say, well, I want to write, I want to create
• 30:34
  story or, was it different somehow?
• 30:40
  Lisa Diersen: You know, I, I like telling stories through, through,
• 30:46
  pictures and film versus writing.
• 30:50
  , and that's evolved.
• 30:51
  That's really evolved in the last 20 years with doing that.
• 30:55
  I love that having bred the lucit horses, the horses that I, I think
• 31:02
  every baby that we've had that's hit the ground is part of a story.
• 31:06
  And so following every one of our foals as they grow up and what they're
• 31:11
  doing, you know, it's, that's just more of the way to tell those stories.
• 31:18
  So sort
• 31:19
  Rupert Isaacson: of living stories really.
• 31:20
  Lisa Diersen: Mm-hmm.
• 31:21
  Living stories like the, like Josh's story, kind of like your son's story.
• 31:25
  I, I like those stories where they can still continue because people still
• 31:31
  want to know what's going on with Rowan.
• 31:33
  They still, Josh still loves the fact that now we can take pictures of him
• 31:39
  four or five years later and he's now writing his mom's Lucit mayor
• 31:43
  and taking writing classes with her.
• 31:46
  And, you know, it's, it's continuation.
• 31:49
  It's not something that has an ending.
• 31:53
  It has, it just continues.
• 31:55
  Rupert Isaacson: You, you get into story, partly to assuage this, you know, to,
• 32:00
  to, to survive really, or to thrive in this, in, in this house full of grief.
• 32:05
  as, as well as of course your relationship with your dad and so on.
• 32:08
  you say that living stories and it naturally film, were you, did you,
• 32:14
  had you always sort of wanted to be a filmmaker, did you, were there films
• 32:17
  that you watched that, was there always this little bit of you, I wanna do that,
• 32:22
  but I just dunno how I'm gonna do that?
• 32:26
  Lisa Diersen: You know, I, I don't know if it was something consciously that I had.
• 32:31
  I've always been a creator, so when I worked.
• 32:38
  When I was in engineering at General Motors, you're, you're creating, you're
• 32:41
  taking, blueprints and creating a, something that will grow into being
• 32:47
  a part in a, in a truck or a car that evolved into, building houses and,
• 32:54
  and building, developing subdivisions.
• 32:57
  Just, I love the creative process.
• 33:00
  I love taking something that is just an, an idea and turning it
• 33:06
  into something, whatever it is.
• 33:10
  Whether it's a story or a house or a barn.
• 33:14
  I'm working right now on a friend's barn, so it's like, you
• 33:18
  can't, can't get away from it.
• 33:20
  Rupert Isaacson: No.
• 33:20
  Sure.
• 33:21
  And, and I think, you know, creative people will always, it's very interesting
• 33:24
  to, to hear you say actually that the creative process of, of an auto
• 33:29
  part is as, because of course it is, it's as, creative as a movie
• 33:35
  or a book and or a piece of art.
• 33:37
  We often don't think of it that way until, of course we see them.
• 33:40
  They say it was a Roman artifact or an Egyptian artifact, which is just a tool on
• 33:45
  display in the Met or something like that.
• 33:47
  Oh, wow, it's beautiful, amazing.
• 33:48
  Look at that technology.
• 33:49
  It's incredible.
• 33:50
  What's the story behind that?
• 33:51
  But of course, if we see, you know, that because the, the, the
• 33:53
  junk, the, the junk of today is tomorrow's archeology, as they say.
• 33:57
  So everything has that creative process.
• 33:59
  It's good to be reminded.
• 34:02
  Yes, you're right.
• 34:02
  A button does, a button does the creative process.
• 34:04
  Yeah.
• 34:05
  You as that little girl with story.
• 34:08
  Did, was there a part of you that said, I want to tell
• 34:10
  stories, or was it not conscious?
• 34:13
  Lisa Diersen: I think it was always conscious.
• 34:15
  Tell stories or create something.
• 34:17
  Just, just do something.
• 34:19
  I mean, I was always doing something, you know, whether it was cooking,
• 34:23
  cooking, cooking, gar gardening.
• 34:27
  Maybe I did write a few, few little stories when I was a kid, or I
• 34:31
  was never, like drawing like I could, it's still a stick horse.
• 34:36
  Okay.
• 34:36
  Like, thank God for Adobe, because now I can really get kind of creative.
• 34:42
  But, with Photoshop.
• 34:44
  But, writing and, and, and film, you know, film photo has always
• 34:50
  been a great, you know, a good way for me to put a story together.
• 34:55
  Did you pick up a camera?
• 34:56
  Young?
• 34:59
  I, yeah, I think I had one of those that you clicked and the, the, the picture
• 35:04
  came out of, but yeah, I always had, I've always had a camera, I always
• 35:07
  had, when video cameras first came out, even, you know, with, even just with
• 35:13
  doing stuff, with trips or whatever, I was always the one taking the pictures.
• 35:19
  Capturing, capturing the moments to tell the story.
• 35:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Would you say primarily then you, you, you.
• 35:30
  You, instinctively, realized very young that the way to heal was through
• 35:39
  positive creative action, basically.
• 35:41
  Oh, yes.
• 35:42
  Yes.
• 35:42
  And did somebody tell you that?
• 35:43
  Like, did your dad tell you that?
• 35:45
  Or did a mentor tell you that?
• 35:47
  Or did you just come to that?
• 35:48
  Was it, was it not?
• 35:49
  Was it, was it one of those households where it wasn't openly discussed or
• 35:53
  did your dad say, actually listen, this is the way, or was it Yeah.
• 35:56
  Was it intuitive?
• 35:58
  Lisa Diersen: I don't think he ever said as much.
• 36:02
  So, listen, this is the way, I, I, I remember, with him never telling
• 36:08
  me I couldn't, I remember talk with, very distinctly with him one time,
• 36:14
  one of the facilities he worked at, they had a, a, a metal cooling,
• 36:18
  a problem on how to cool metals.
• 36:20
  And I, I drew him up a littles little schematic, and, and he
• 36:26
  didn't, he didn't downplay it.
• 36:29
  He was like, oh, that's great.
• 36:30
  You know, you know, it's good to think about that and problem solve and, and
• 36:34
  try to try to work out the problems.
• 36:37
  I was never told I couldn't, if I wanted to do something, I couldn't,
• 36:42
  you know, you can't do that.
• 36:44
  You, you can't do that cuz you're a girl.
• 36:46
  So I, I was never put down, put that way, but, and nowadays, well, they
• 36:53
  still have, and it's gonna, we're gonna have to go back so many light years now
• 36:58
  between o v, Wade and Barbie out for girls with getting back to where they had
• 37:07
  told they can do something.
• 37:08
  You're lucky yet.
• 37:08
  Well, no, now you've got girls though, or a girl.
• 37:11
  But no, being able to, to just create if I wanted to.
• 37:18
  So
• 37:18
  Rupert Isaacson: and so you, would you think it was just more that you just,
• 37:20
  you, you yourself, realized that staying creative was the way to find healing?
• 37:26
  Yes.
• 37:26
  Rather than somebody specifically saying, this is how to find healing.
• 37:32
  Lisa Diersen: Yes.
• 37:33
  Yes, I would say that.
• 37:35
  Rupert Isaacson: And now of course, here you are with a festival that's
• 37:38
  primarily about healing, under the masquerading as a, as a, as
• 37:43
  a as a festival about, horses.
• 37:45
  what made you think festival, have you always liked the idea of groups of
• 37:52
  people coming together, to celebrate creativity in that sort of way?
• 37:56
  Like Yeah.
• 37:56
  What, at what point did festival creep
• 37:58
  Lisa Diersen: in the festival creeped in when, , we were breeding.
• 38:03
  The horses.
• 38:04
  Horses and horses.
• 38:06
  You, , with your documentary, we were doing, the town I was in there,
• 38:12
  there was no horse event around.
• 38:15
  So I had the bright idea of let's try to do, with some friends,
• 38:23
  let's try to do a festival that addresses equine assisted therapy
• 38:28
  that addresses the African-American community with their horses.
• 38:33
  Because in Chicago there's a lot of, there's some bunch of guys who are
• 38:37
  Buffalo soldiers, plus there's also a big black cowboy community in Chicago.
• 38:44
  We have a wonderful Hispanic community in the area that
• 38:48
  does, EscaRosa a lot of the,
• 38:51
  Rupert Isaacson: beautiful dancer, by the way, for those who don't know
• 38:54
  what that is, that's the, female side saddle, mounted displays
• 38:58
  right in the Mexican tradition.
• 39:00
  Lisa Diersen: Beautiful.
• 39:01
  It's absolutely beautiful.
• 39:02
  and then we have classical writing and, and along with, art and literature.
• 39:07
  So we were going to create a festival that kind of addressed things that
• 39:13
  aren't at your average horse show.
• 39:14
  Oh, we had Native Americans too.
• 39:16
  We had a, a big Native American, Component to the festival.
• 39:20
  We, it was called Festival of the Horse and Drum.
• 39:23
  And it, that was when we did the very first film festival.
• 39:26
  And I have a friend who owns a theater in town, and I asked him if I could show
• 39:31
  your film because you had just broken your leg, so you were not gonna be
• 39:36
  able to come, but you were gonna Skype in, which I broke my leg last year,
• 39:42
  so I had to follow in your footsteps.
• 39:44
  , but we did, we had that and I, and so I asked Ron, I said, can we show
• 39:50
  some film or show this documentary?
• 39:52
  He goes, yeah, as you can show it, and it's a beautiful little theater.
• 39:56
  And so he's, after he said Yes, I said, well, what if I got a few more?
• 39:59
  Because you know how I am, Robert.
• 40:01
  I can't, I can't just stop.
• 40:04
  And so I had 30 films the first year and that kind of let me know that
• 40:11
  this is something that is out there.
• 40:13
  All of these films are out there because for every, oh, we had Jousts too.
• 40:18
  So for every aspect of what we had at that festival, there was a documentary
• 40:24
  that existed in the world that was a counterpart, a, a compliment to that.
• 40:29
  So the therapy part, we had yours, we had.
• 40:32
  and a Nakota horse stories.
• 40:34
  We had a documentary about Esam, beautiful Es Moosa documentary.
• 40:40
  We had a jousting documentary.
• 40:42
  We had the Black Rodeo, which was, Thero held in Harlem back in the
• 40:46
  seventies, a documentary on that.
• 40:48
  So there were so many stories out there before we even tried to, to put out a
• 40:55
  call for, for equine theme documentaries that it just kinda let me know that this
• 41:02
  might, there might be something to this.
• 41:04
  Rupert Isaacson: And then I guess your, background with engineering
• 41:09
  must have come in handy in terms of the logistics and the organization
• 41:13
  and the sort of nuts and bolts
• 41:15
  Lisa Diersen: side.
• 41:15
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:17
  It just, it's, it's just piecing the puzzle together.
• 41:21
  So
• 41:21
  Rupert Isaacson: what are o over the, it's been quite a few years now that
• 41:24
  you've been running this, festival.
• 41:27
  What are the stories that really, really stand out for you, that
• 41:31
  we should all be aware of?
• 41:32
  Because, there'll be people who are driving their cars listening to this.
• 41:35
  So I want to, I want to tell you guys at this point, pull
• 41:39
  over and get the notebook out.
• 41:41
  Lisa Diersen: or we can put it in your show notes.
• 41:43
  Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.
• 41:44
  And of course you can also listen to this, you know, later on.
• 41:46
  But what are the must sees and the must reads.
• 41:51
  That you've come across over the years that you're like, whoa, this one
• 41:55
  changed my life, this one changed my life, that we might not know about.
• 41:58
  What, what are the stories that, that we should know?
• 42:00
  I'm gonna, I'm getting my notebook out too.
• 42:03
  Lisa Diersen: Well, you know, , this is the 11th season with this back, with
• 42:06
  this film festival, and we've had over 600 films submitted into this festival,
• 42:14
  which is kind of mind blowing, when I, when you sit back and think of it.
• 42:19
  But there's one that, that actually, there's two that really stick
• 42:23
  out in my mind, but one is called Healing Horses, and there these are
• 42:28
  short, these are under 20 minute
• 42:32
  Rupert Isaacson: so tell us about Healing Horses.
• 42:34
  The Healing Horses doc,
• 42:36
  Lisa Diersen: the, the Healing Horses documentary is about a young lady who
• 42:39
  has a car accident on the 4th of July.
• 42:43
  So immediately you must think it's a teenager out drinking and
• 42:46
  driving, which it totally wasn't.
• 42:49
  But she learns how to walk again with the therapeutic use of this big draft
• 42:55
  horse, which happens to also be an, a world equestrian level draft horse that
• 43:02
  teams that come into the United States.
• 43:04
  Karen is the lady who runs the program, is also a coach
• 43:08
  for, a lot of the, the teams.
• 43:11
  And so she'll use this, this draft horse who is on his side gig is
• 43:16
  being used as a therapy horse.
• 43:19
  And the other one was an early on documentary called Riding My Way
• 43:23
  Back, and it was about a veteran who got into a program, just met this
• 43:31
  horse, kind of standoffish for a great part of it, but then got into a real
• 43:38
  one-on-one relationship with the horse.
• 43:40
  And when he was about four weeks into the program, Maybe it was four months,
• 43:46
  turned around and gave his therapist a letter, and the letter had said how he was
• 43:54
  g going to commit suicide the night that he called to say goodbye to the horse.
• 44:00
  And because of this horse, he didn't do that.
• 44:04
  And now he is mentoring other veterans and he's part of the program and he's
• 44:10
  engaged to this beautiful young girl.
• 44:13
  And, you know, it's, it's just such a, it's such a feel good, amazing story,
• 44:19
  but it's what horses can do for us.
• 44:23
  Riding my way back.
• 44:25
  Yeah.
• 44:25
  Robin Rosenthal was a filmmaker on that Beautiful Doctor
• 44:28
  Robin
• 44:29
  Rupert Isaacson: Rosenthal.
• 44:30
  Okay.
• 44:31
  And healing horses.
• 44:32
  heal.
• 44:34
  Who was the, who was the,
• 44:35
  Lisa Diersen: I would have, that was way back in the beginning.
• 44:38
  I have to, I'd have to look up who that filmmaker was, but
• 44:41
  there's just so many amazing ones.
• 44:45
  We're working on a, on a project right now, that kind of goes
• 44:49
  back to the Mustang Pro, series we're working on called The Must.
• 44:54
  The whole project is called the Mustang Discovery Ride Project,
• 44:58
  but I had a young girl, Mustang girl, the Mustang Discovery ride.
• 45:01
  Yes.
• 45:02
  So two years ago, actually, it's funny, two years ago
• 45:06
  today, I met a young lady in.
• 45:10
  Montana, Bozeman, Montana at Art of the Cowgirl, who they were looking for someone
• 45:16
  to help them pull together their project and they were starting in Delaware.
• 45:23
  So logistically them coming outta Montana, Wyoming and getting 'em to
• 45:27
  Delaware was a, was a project and a half.
• 45:30
  But they rode from Delaware to California all the way across the
• 45:35
  United States, almost 5,000 miles with four Mustangs and a mule mule stang,
• 45:43
  and all the way across the country.
• 45:46
  We set up meetings and, seminars and clinics at different veterans
• 45:54
  or youth programs across the country for her to speak at as she wrote.
• 45:59
  And finding all of these places non-connected, through
• 46:04
  to different associations.
• 46:05
  These are just kind of standalone places where the horses are healing people.
• 46:11
  Mostly Mustangs, but it, that was, that's just amazing.
• 46:15
  So that documentary is Julianne Neal is working on getting that finished out.
• 46:20
  I know I, you met her years ago and she's been a important part
• 46:26
  of Equus, but she's the, was the chief filmmaker on that documentary,
• 46:31
  so that hopefully will be ready.
• 46:34
  Gosh, by sometime next year, cuz there's a ton of, there's a year's
• 46:38
  worth of a year and a half's worth of footage cuz we wrapped that last
• 46:41
  November on the beach in California.
• 46:45
  Rupert Isaacson: Tell me, I mean, as a filmmaker myself, I immediately
• 46:48
  think, oh, that sounds expensive.
• 46:50
  How, did she, financed that ride?
• 46:53
  That's not a cheap thing to do.
• 46:54
  And then to get a, a documentary around it.
• 46:57
  what, what were the
• 46:58
  Lisa Diersen: mechanisms there?
• 47:00
  So we had, because it was Mustangs, we had some support from the Mustang
• 47:05
  Heritage Foundation, which supported until about halfway through, and
• 47:11
  then they ran out of their support.
• 47:13
  And we had to, we had to really scramble, but because I have some
• 47:18
  amazing filmmakers all the way across the country and Julianne was willing
• 47:25
  to, to kind of oversee the main part of the putting everything together.
• 47:33
  I had different filmmakers who came in and rode with Anne and
• 47:38
  would film and do some writing.
• 47:40
  And Rhonda Gregorio, who's working on the Mustang book project, she came in
• 47:44
  and rode in, in Washington DC with us.
• 47:49
  We rode all the way down out of, oh gosh, I can't remember
• 47:52
  the name of the park, but.
• 47:54
  Through this park all the way along through, so into downtown
• 47:58
  DC up to the Washington Monument with these mustangs, which was one
• 48:04
  of the, well, nerve wracking, but exciting things that I've ever done.
• 48:10
  And but I had, I have had an amazing group of filmmakers, cross country
• 48:15
  who were willing to just come on and ride for a couple of weeks with her
• 48:20
  or, or drive along or do whatever or follow or ride in the chase car and
• 48:25
  film and get parts of this story.
• 48:28
  So from that point of view, I mean, it's gonna be a little rougher, but we just
• 48:35
  screened one of the best documentaries I've seen called The Long Rider,
• 48:39
  which was about Felipe Long Rider, the long, the long Rider that came out.
• 48:45
  That was part of the festival last year.
• 48:47
  That's a 90 minute documentary.
• 48:50
  Felipe Road from Canada to Brazil.
• 48:54
  Felipe who?
• 48:54
  He did all Alte Ale.
• 48:57
  How do I spell that?
• 48:59
  I think it's l e t i e.
• 49:02
  I will get you that because I think he needs to be on your show.
• 49:06
  Rupert Isaacson: Felipe Letti.
• 49:06
  Okay.
• 49:07
  Brazilian.
• 49:08
  He's back guy.
• 49:10
  Lisa Diersen: Pardon me?
• 49:11
  Brazilian guy.
• 49:12
  Yes.
• 49:13
  And he lives in Canada now.
• 49:15
  but his family, it's an amazing story and so.
• 49:21
  he did most of his own filming with a hand, you know, with
• 49:24
  his phone or with a, a GoPro.
• 49:26
  And, you know, when you're telling a story of riding across the country, it, you
• 49:32
  wanna see it from the seat of the rider.
• 49:35
  You want, you want that bird's eye view as you're going across.
• 49:38
  Kind of like what Ben Masters did with unbranded, that was one of
• 49:41
  our first documentaries we had in the, in the festival was unbranded.
• 49:47
  And that you still, that still stands up.
• 49:50
  It's beautiful and breathtaking.
• 49:53
  And, but Felipe wrote from Canada to Brazil, then from Brazil to the
• 49:59
  furthest, most southern tip you can ride, I think in Argentina.
• 50:03
  Then they went back up, he went up to Alaska and rode from Alaska
• 50:08
  back down to Calgary, Canada.
• 50:10
  So that's an amazing, amazing,
• 50:12
  Rupert Isaacson: and what was he, what was he trying to achieve with this?
• 50:14
  Why did he do this crazy ride?
• 50:16
  Lisa Diersen: He, to ride the three at with Schley's book
• 50:20
  about writing the Americas.
• 50:22
  He wanted to follow Schley's story.
• 50:26
  And so, and, and he's, he's a cha, you'll love him.
• 50:30
  He's a character.
• 50:31
  He's a great interview.
• 50:32
  He's just such an amazing young man.
• 50:36
  Rupert Isaacson: What, what, what was he trying to bring attention to any cause or
• 50:41
  what, what was the, what was the capital?
• 50:43
  No, not
• 50:43
  Lisa Diersen: really to any cause.
• 50:44
  This was, it was more that he could do this.
• 50:49
  You know, long riders are.
• 50:50
  with Lasan it was different because we were riding, we
• 50:56
  were doing the Mustang horses.
• 50:58
  Were the whole focus of this to bring awareness to all the horses
• 51:01
  that are standing in b l m Holding, which is right now close to 70,000
• 51:06
  horses that they've rounded up.
• 51:08
  They're standing and holding.
• 51:09
  We can use them in veterans programs, we can use them in
• 51:12
  mental health programs with youth.
• 51:14
  We can use them.
• 51:15
  They're, they're wonderful riding horses.
• 51:17
  They're great all around horses.
• 51:20
  So that was what our project was about, bringing awareness
• 51:23
  to these horses and holding.
• 51:26
  Rupert was a long rider and Felipe in the world, there's an organiz, pardon me?
• 51:33
  Rupert Isaacson: Felipe was a Felipe.
• 51:34
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:35
  What, when you say a long rider, what does that mean?
• 51:37
  What's
• 51:37
  Lisa Diersen: a long rider?
• 51:40
  So there's an organization called the Long Riders Guild.
• 51:44
  I think there're, they're based out of either Ireland, Ireland, I think it's
• 51:47
  Ireland, the, the, the, the main, rider or the, the organization is out of.
• 51:53
  But it's an organization that if you ride more than a thousand miles in
• 51:58
  your ride from start to get, you know, for the ride to end, you be,
• 52:03
  you qualified to be a long rider and you can join the Long Riders Guild.
• 52:07
  Then, Bernice, who we had the documentary a couple of years
• 52:11
  ago about Lady Long Rider, she.
• 52:15
  She passed away a year and a half ago, but she rode 30,000
• 52:19
  miles across the United States.
• 52:22
  There's, there's all of these people out there that do this, that
• 52:26
  Rupert Isaacson: go out.
• 52:27
  They're not doing it for any, any specific, cause they're
• 52:29
  doing it as a personal odyssey.
• 52:31
  No, no.
• 52:33
  Lisa Diersen: Yep.
• 52:34
  Yep.
• 52:34
  Niece got divorced and when she got divorced, she got on her
• 52:38
  horses and just started riding.
• 52:40
  She was gonna ride to go visit her sister, and she just kept riding and she kept
• 52:44
  riding until she, she, her last long ride was two months before she died of cancer.
• 52:52
  She just kept riding.
• 52:54
  There's just people who, it's like a runner.
• 52:57
  It's like anybody else that wants to get out there in their sport and
• 53:01
  achieve it for their personal best.
• 53:04
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, what what your, what immediately springs to mind when
• 53:07
  you talk about these rides is, you said, and she just kept riding.
• 53:12
  Remember Forrest Gump?
• 53:13
  And he starts running and then he just keeps running.
• 53:15
  And of course he builds his following, but of course what he's
• 53:19
  really doing it for is healing.
• 53:21
  Do you think that Yes.
• 53:24
  Clearly this lady who, who, who, who died of cancer with her 30,000
• 53:29
  miles was after her divorce.
• 53:32
  That seems to be a healing journey she's trying to heal.
• 53:34
  Is, is, is Felipe with his, Canada to tear going back up.
• 53:39
  Is, is he looking for healing as well?
• 53:42
  Lisa Diersen: He talks completely and openly about his search for healing and
• 53:48
  how the horses for his mental health.
• 53:52
  One of the organizations that we're working with now is Horses for Mental
• 53:57
  Health, horses for Mental Health, two year, two year old organization.
• 54:02
  Lynn Thomas, who's the founder of I, is now the director
• 54:09
  for Horses for Mental Health.
• 54:11
  Okay.
• 54:12
  And Felipe was just on her.
• 54:14
  they had in May, they had their big mental health awareness month with the
• 54:19
  horse campaign and Felipe was one of the guests on there and talks about,
• 54:25
  you know, the depression and, and how horses and what horses have done for him.
• 54:31
  Rupert Isaacson: So really he was doing, he was riding.
• 54:33
  Yes.
• 54:33
  He was riding his away, away from and through depression.
• 54:36
  Feeling.
• 54:37
  Okay.
• 54:38
  So this is interesting.
• 54:39
  I mean, we talked, you talked earlier about the idea of horses as metaphor,
• 54:43
  and I was asking you, what do you feel horses are a metaphor for?
• 54:47
  And I do think that, I think everybody, would you not agree,
• 54:51
  who, whether, whether they're, whether they're horse people or not.
• 54:55
  When people think of horses, they think freedom, don't they?
• 54:58
  You think?
• 54:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 54:59
  Freedom.
• 54:59
  You think that's a free animal?
• 55:01
  If I sit on the back of this horse, it will take me to freedom.
• 55:04
  You think about the image of the cowboy, you think about riding the ranch, it's,
• 55:08
  it, it's about freedom, in a world that seems to be less and less free.
• 55:13
  do, do you feel that with the Equus Film Festival, you can give people
• 55:21
  a sense that they can find freedom through, through the, whether it's by
• 55:27
  actually sort of doing these things that these people are doing, these
• 55:29
  sort of pilgrimages people are doing?
• 55:30
  Or, or just through the stories themselves?
• 55:34
  Lisa Diersen: I think, I think that's a yes to both.
• 55:40
  One of, one of the films we had a couple of years ago was, about called the
• 55:45
  Gobi Gallup and my friend Julie Vlu, who runs the, the Vlu Foundation, she
• 55:54
  started this ride in Mongolia in her sixties to, and she didn't even start
• 56:05
  writing till her mid to late fifties.
• 56:07
  She started this ride now to help build, build schools and, libraries
• 56:16
  for the children in the village, in the Mongolian Village where she
• 56:20
  first went to do a, a horseback ride because she saw these children.
• 56:25
  Scrounging for food and clothing and everything else on a garbage dump.
• 56:31
  And she thought, my God, I got, I, I have to be able, able
• 56:36
  to do something about this.
• 56:38
  And so since then we've showed her documentary and we've had people who,
• 56:44
  after they've seen their document, her documentary have gone and ridden with her.
• 56:49
  every year she do, they do an annual ride now, and she ac they actually have five or
• 56:53
  six different rides they do in Mongolia.
• 56:55
  And it's, it's completely changed her life.
• 56:59
  Getting into to what she's doing now.
• 57:02
  It's like a, a, another whole phase of her life happening.
• 57:07
  I, I've seen this happen time and time again with so many people, with the
• 57:12
  horses, when the horse is just, when it's their time to be part of your life, you
• 57:18
  can't, there's nothing you can do to, to, to stop 'em from coming on and driving
• 57:27
  and, and taking you where you're going.
• 57:29
  The, the people
• 57:30
  Rupert Isaacson: who come to your festival, I should imagine they're
• 57:32
  primarily horse people, but are you getting the general public?
• 57:36
  Are there people who are showing up to the festival with no horse background?
• 57:40
  People?
• 57:42
  Lisa Diersen: A little bit, but they usually come as guest with
• 57:46
  someone with that has horses.
• 57:51
  A, a good partnership would, would be with something like say, being a little
• 57:57
  off, kind of like what I wanna call off Broadway, but when, when Sundance
• 58:02
  does their big festival, they'll have like rooms that Doy cat films or very
• 58:08
  specific genre of films that would probably get a, a broader audience.
• 58:15
  But I think, and the sad thing is, is that no matter how good a horse
• 58:21
  documentary is, it's still a horse documentary and the industry as far as,
• 58:30
  the other film festivals and that they tend to not show horse horse theme films.
• 58:35
  I have no idea why it, it, it doesn't make sense why they wouldn't show and amazes
• 58:42
  me because some of these are some of the best movies I've ever seen just from the
• 58:49
  Rupert Isaacson: pure emotion.
• 58:49
  Sure.
• 58:50
  And cinematic.
• 58:51
  But, in terms of, of the audiences that that show up to your festival,
• 58:55
  do you get non horsey people?
• 58:59
  Lisa Diersen: Only from 90% if they come with other people, like with a
• 59:04
  horse, horse lover, so it's like a, then they get kind of drop, they have to be
• 59:07
  initiated and then they don't properly.
• 59:10
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 59:10
  So, so, so for example, with the, the, the horses for mental health or.
• 59:18
  With the Mustang issue in, America, I, I happen to know that it's costing
• 59:23
  the taxpayer, I think it's 150 million a year to keep these horses in these
• 59:27
  holding pens, which are not, not very nice if they don't end up going down
• 59:32
  shit down to Mexico to solve the meat.
• 59:34
  and these are issues which of course don't get into the mainstream unless
• 59:39
  people find out about them somehow.
• 59:41
  Obviously, therapeutic riding, you know, and, and working
• 59:44
  with horses in mental health.
• 59:45
  This now is edging its way into the mainstream.
• 59:47
  obviously I work, people are starting to be referred to us,
• 59:51
  but it's a slow, slow process.
• 59:54
  What do you feel, you could do, I mean, you are, you're obviously already doing
• 59:58
  it, but what do you feel you could, the, the, the film fe the, the festival
• 1:00:01
  could do more, to bring the idea that horses are integral to human mental
• 1:00:08
  health, , into the wider mainstream so that they, they don't have to
• 1:00:12
  stumble upon your, your, your festival.
• 1:00:14
  Right.
• 1:00:15
  , with a, with a horsey person.
• 1:00:17
  How, how can we move it further into the mainstream, do you think?
• 1:00:20
  This message?
• 1:00:21
  Lisa Diersen: well, we're, we're in the horse world to reach
• 1:00:26
  further, to get to more people.
• 1:00:28
  We've started a, what we call the Mustang Summit because part of what,
• 1:00:35
  and, and it's kind of a different layered answer, but the Mustang Summit.
• 1:00:40
  Has been developed to be an educational platform where we talk only about off
• 1:00:46
  range issues after the horses have been rounded up in those 60, 70,000 horses.
• 1:00:52
  What can we do with them?
• 1:00:54
  There's two really distinct camps in the wild horse world and there's,
• 1:01:00
  there's kind of the WildHorse extremists that think they should just stay out
• 1:01:05
  on the planes and nothing should be done with them and let them be wild.
• 1:01:11
  And then there's the people that have, have Mustangs and love them and realize
• 1:01:20
  that the Bureau of Land Management, which the other camp thinks is the evil overlord
• 1:01:28
  ha, has been tasked in 1971 when the WildHorse and Bureau Act passed, they were
• 1:01:34
  tasked with managing these wild horses.
• 1:01:38
  They're just like, I don't want to be in a country where we have an open season
• 1:01:45
  on hunting where we give a hunter a license to go out and pull 20,000 horses.
• 1:01:53
  That happened, that was called How Kennel Ration got started.
• 1:01:58
  So in order to stay out of that, we have to have roundups and a
• 1:02:04
  certain amount of those horses have to be rounded up every year.
• 1:02:08
  Well, when you bring that certain amount of horses in the we, in,
• 1:02:14
  in the US we have the hin ponies.
• 1:02:17
  I think everybody knows what the hin ponies are, where they round
• 1:02:22
  Rupert Isaacson: them up.
• 1:02:22
  Let, just for those listeners outside of, of the USA Chin is an
• 1:02:27
  island, off of the coast of Virginia.
• 1:02:30
  and there's actually a few of these islands are called barrier
• 1:02:32
  islands, where horses washed up from shipwrecks, hundreds of years ago and
• 1:02:37
  have established feral populations, some of which are quite famous.
• 1:02:40
  Sti Okay, I'll shut up now.
• 1:02:42
  Back, back, back to that.
• 1:02:44
  Lisa Diersen: Well, well, the Chin Kati model works because the, the
• 1:02:49
  fire department for the last 70 years and in Chin Kati has kind
• 1:02:53
  of overseen the pony population.
• 1:02:56
  They round them up every year.
• 1:02:58
  They swim them across a channel.
• 1:03:02
  They take, give them their shots.
• 1:03:06
  They keep a record of who's who.
• 1:03:09
  They take the, the younger horses, the babies, and the yearlings,
• 1:03:13
  and they auction them off.
• 1:03:15
  And the older breeding stock gets taken back to the island
• 1:03:19
  to to, to start a new crop.
• 1:03:23
  And the, that model works, we have, we have all different kinds of what's called
• 1:03:29
  hmas out west horse management areas.
• 1:03:32
  Where people love, say sand washed basin.
• 1:03:35
  There's beautiful, very colorful mustangs that come out of that area.
• 1:03:40
  People love them.
• 1:03:42
  If we started to do, like with the Shin Kati model, where you are cultivating
• 1:03:48
  a group of people who want those very specific Mustang horses, then you've got
• 1:03:55
  your, you've got your buyers, and every year you have people who are waiting in
• 1:03:59
  line for that roundup to happen to bring those horses in and so they can auction
• 1:04:06
  or pick their horse out of an auction.
• 1:04:07
  And so that's years away creating that.
• 1:04:10
  So in the meantime, we still have 70,000 horses, 65, or whatever the number is.
• 1:04:16
  It changes that we have to find homes for.
• 1:04:22
  So with the Mustang Summit, our goal is to educate people about the prison programs,
• 1:04:27
  the veteran programs, the youth program.
• 1:04:29
  There's a youth program in Utah that turns out 50 to 60 horses a year through
• 1:04:36
  their tip training program with their kids who have gone through the adoption,
• 1:04:41
  the, welfare system with the kids and the kids who are going through all of
• 1:04:46
  the, the Foster, it's Youth at risk.
• 1:04:48
  It's a, it's a youth at risk program.
• 1:04:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:51
  They, those kids are the ones doing the gling of the Mustang.
• 1:04:56
  And it's called three-Point Center.
• 1:04:58
  They do an amazing job.
• 1:05:01
  So the, the Mustangs work with Youth at Risk.
• 1:05:03
  They work with SueAnn Wells, who has her program in Chattanooga, Tennessee,
• 1:05:09
  with her Inner City Girls program who are doing dressage with Mustangs.
• 1:05:14
  And then they, they work with all of the other programs that are out there.
• 1:05:19
  So that's what we try to do with the, , the Mustang Summit is
• 1:05:22
  to at least educate that part.
• 1:05:25
  But in my heart of hearts, I, I genuinely believe and feel that 130 years ago
• 1:05:35
  or so, maybe even 140 pe everybody at some point was around a horse.
• 1:05:42
  Whether it was a horse pulling, the milk wagon or delivery
• 1:05:47
  wagons or horse were by humans.
• 1:05:52
  Still in other parts of the world, horses are by humans all the time.
• 1:05:56
  And, you know, you wanna get deeper into the conversation.
• 1:05:59
  You don't see youth committing suicide in those countries at the rate that they're
• 1:06:03
  committing suicide in this country.
• 1:06:05
  W we had daily interaction with, this, with sentient
• 1:06:10
  beings, horse or cow or whatever.
• 1:06:12
  Now we are removed from that because nobody's around horses on a daily basis,
• 1:06:20
  except for those of us that have horses.
• 1:06:23
  And know what they do.
• 1:06:24
  And I think that horses are here for their next part of, of their, of their
• 1:06:33
  journey with the humans to heal us.
• 1:06:37
  That more importantly, not to be a riding instrument, which is it's, I would not
• 1:06:43
  give up my give up riding horses, period.
• 1:06:46
  I love getting on my horse and riding.
• 1:06:49
  But to, to whether they're people are riding, whether they're doing
• 1:06:55
  therapy with them or whatever, that horses are here to heal us.
• 1:06:59
  Horses are here to bring people back to what they're missing in life.
• 1:07:05
  And that's, that, that connection, that call it HeartMath, that, that finding
• 1:07:11
  your center again, finding your peace.
• 1:07:14
  And you, you can do that when you're with your horse or a horse, any horse.
• 1:07:23
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, I, I like what you said just now also about
• 1:07:26
  that it, it wasn't just horses.
• 1:07:29
  It was being around sentient beings.
• 1:07:32
  Obviously we, we have pets.
• 1:07:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:34
  But I think that, our relationship with our pets can be different
• 1:07:37
  because, What does a horse do?
• 1:07:39
  It carries you or it, you rely on it.
• 1:07:42
  You know, what did a cow do?
• 1:07:43
  You, you relied on it.
• 1:07:45
  If you have a hunting dog, I suppose, or a guide dog, a seeing eye dog or a
• 1:07:49
  sheep dog or something, you rely on it.
• 1:07:51
  But of course, the vast majority of people with pets, I have pets too.
• 1:07:54
  , we don't, we, we just have them as a, as a feel good factor
• 1:07:59
  for our mental health, really.
• 1:08:02
  That's why we have pets.
• 1:08:03
  Yeah.
• 1:08:03
  But it is true what you say, I think.
• 1:08:06
  And something I hadn't considered though is that yes, the, the, the malaise
• 1:08:11
  that you see through the youth of the western world, and I think probably
• 1:08:19
  the industrialized world everywhere.
• 1:08:22
  Yes.
• 1:08:22
  Yes.
• 1:08:23
  It seems that mental health is deteriorating that, that, depression's on
• 1:08:27
  the rise and rapidly despite the fact that life has materially never been better.
• 1:08:32
  and it's interesting that you say in the countries where people are,
• 1:08:37
  around sensient beings all the time, in a way that they're around them.
• 1:08:40
  You, you have better mental health.
• 1:08:41
  It's, it would seem that suicide, for example and that sort of thing,
• 1:08:45
  not so much of a factor that I think you've just answered my question for
• 1:08:51
  what's in it for the mainstream person.
• 1:08:52
  Because let's say you're listening to this podcast say, well, why should
• 1:08:55
  I listen to a podcast about a, a a a festival around art and film with horses?
• 1:09:01
  I mean, I, I live in.
• 1:09:03
  An apartment in London or Queens or Buenos Aires or Cape Town,
• 1:09:07
  it, it makes no difference to me or I don't care from horses.
• 1:09:10
  But I think your, the point that you're making about being around sentient
• 1:09:13
  beings back to where we went to with HeartMath earlier is, is, is important.
• 1:09:19
  And it seems that you are somewhat of a profit of this.
• 1:09:23
  where would you like this to go?
• 1:09:27
  You, you've, you've, you've established now a very successful festival.
• 1:09:31
  you, you could say yourself actualized with it.
• 1:09:33
  You're, you're kind of making a living from it.
• 1:09:35
  You've, you've taken this idea that everyone said was just this silly little
• 1:09:38
  niche idea for people that like ponies.
• 1:09:41
  And you've put the light to that.
• 1:09:44
  Obviously, you, you, you, you, you are educating people about the Mustang issue.
• 1:09:48
  Obviously you're educating people about horses and mental health and
• 1:09:51
  so on, but where would you like to go back to yourself as a little girl?
• 1:09:56
  Where would you like to really go with this festival?
• 1:09:59
  What would you like to see it do?
• 1:10:03
  Lisa Diersen: I'd like to see more people, non horse people
• 1:10:09
  coming and seeing this magic.
• 1:10:11
  Cause it's magic.
• 1:10:12
  I mean, it's, it's so powerful and, and I don't care whether I'm showing
• 1:10:21
  films and I still do this, three times a year at a library by us.
• 1:10:26
  I'll take a, a group of our documentaries and we do a little
• 1:10:30
  movie night at a library, and you see people walking out in tears just
• 1:10:36
  because they, they, they're so moved.
• 1:10:40
  They're just, they, they're just so moved because they simply had people
• 1:10:46
  go, just keep saying, I had no idea.
• 1:10:49
  I had no idea.
• 1:10:50
  That's, that seems to be the chant of people who've seen the seen horse
• 1:10:56
  movies that are about mental health or veterans or kids, therapeutic uses.
• 1:11:04
  They walk out and they just go, I just, I just had no idea.
• 1:11:09
  And I'd like that to be, , more, more people to be experiencing that because
• 1:11:15
  these people, these filmmakers work so hard to pull these stories together and
• 1:11:21
  to share them with, with people and to, to let someone experience, to have the
• 1:11:27
  experience that I had the first time I saw your film, to want to make, to want
• 1:11:35
  to make it everybody, to, to see that.
• 1:11:39
  I think everybody who, who takes the time to make a documentary about horses or.
• 1:11:46
  You know, what, what is going on?
• 1:11:48
  Whether it's a good one or a bad one, they've still put their heart and
• 1:11:51
  soul into, into that storytelling.
• 1:11:55
  Rupert Isaacson: You know, it, it's really interesting.
• 1:11:57
  As you were doing this, I I, I was inspired to just jump on Google because,
• 1:12:01
  it, it, reminded me of something I read a few months ago, which was that for
• 1:12:09
  people who are stuck in cities, and I think this came out of lockdown, , that
• 1:12:13
  watching nature documentaries, for example, wildlife documentaries and
• 1:12:16
  nature documentaries, turned out to be incredibly good for people's health.
• 1:12:20
  Not just their mental health, but actually their physical health too.
• 1:12:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:12:24
  And of course, what is a horse, but nature and where do mm-hmm.
• 1:12:28
  Horse documentaries take place.
• 1:12:29
  And I was just thinking, well, what's in it for me if I, I don't
• 1:12:32
  care from horses, but, and I've, I, I've just got something here.
• 1:12:36
  It says, in a new study published by Oxford University Press, , experts
• 1:12:40
  describe how television shows can ultimately not benefit, not
• 1:12:43
  just the planet, , by making people, more interested in, in
• 1:12:47
  nature and the causes of nature.
• 1:12:48
  But it backed up something which had come out from the University of, of
• 1:12:52
  California Berkeley, where, watching nature documentaries of any kind was
• 1:12:59
  shown to be one of the best ways to boost your mental health and decrease stress.
• 1:13:05
  And of course, we know that stress is a physical thing.
• 1:13:08
  It, it's not just a.
• 1:13:09
  Something that happens because the amygdala in the brain signals
• 1:13:13
  your body to produce cortisol.
• 1:13:14
  The stress hormone, that stress hormone we know is a neurotoxin.
• 1:13:17
  So people who are stressed all the time, which is most people in our culture,
• 1:13:23
  are suffering, you know, health, physical health, degradation from it.
• 1:13:28
  Would you posit that, by producing this documentary and sort of putting th th
• 1:13:32
  this festival and putting all of these documentaries out there for people to
• 1:13:35
  watch, and giving them a, a platform where they get to television and that sort
• 1:13:41
  of thing, you are actually benefiting people's physical as, as well as mental
• 1:13:45
  health way outside of the horse world.
• 1:13:49
  Well, I would love to think
• 1:13:50
  Lisa Diersen: that that would happen.
• 1:13:53
  Rupert Isaacson: It seems, well, it seems the academics think it, it,
• 1:13:55
  it's, it's, it's, it's very interesting to, to, to hop onto, to Google.
• 1:13:59
  It seems to be a hot topic right now.
• 1:14:00
  I just did one, one little search here.
• 1:14:04
  and it seems that it does come down to reducing stress, which
• 1:14:08
  makes perfect sense if you think about it, I guess because mm-hmm.
• 1:14:11
  If, if planet Earth is where our organism, because humans are organisms, is pro
• 1:14:18
  pre-programmed to, to be in, and of course we, we divorce ourselves from that.
• 1:14:24
  then to beam something into a living room, to beam something into a
• 1:14:28
  cell phone, Surely must connect one, reconnect one, even if it's
• 1:14:35
  in a metaphorical or virtual way.
• 1:14:38
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:14:38
  Something in our organism must respond to that.
• 1:14:41
  Would you not think?
• 1:14:43
  Lisa Diersen: Oh, I think for sure, because we're, we are, we're mammals.
• 1:14:47
  I mean, we are the same type of being that, that the horse says.
• 1:14:55
  We just have the ability to think of it more.
• 1:14:58
  But, and some there that could be questionable at
• 1:15:00
  some time with some people.
• 1:15:02
  But, I noticed you me, when you, that's where comes from.
• 1:15:07
  But, there was a, one of our, we also do commercials, have commercials in
• 1:15:12
  the festival and equine productions, who happens to be based in, the UK
• 1:15:18
  did a really nice piece, a little commercial on, for the mental health.
• 1:15:24
  there's a mental health group that takes care of the jockeys and
• 1:15:28
  people who work at the racetracks.
• 1:15:31
  And, when you were talking, you were talking a little bit about people in their
• 1:15:35
  apartment or this and that, but I'll bet you there's a bunch of people who are
• 1:15:38
  gamblers and or race horses and Oh, yes.
• 1:15:42
  Yeah.
• 1:15:42
  That kind of thing.
• 1:15:43
  I mean, the dark side of horse industry affects them that way too.
• 1:15:47
  Yes.
• 1:15:47
  The dark side of the racing world, but still a horse world, but.
• 1:15:52
  They did a beautiful little piece, and it was more, it just kind of scanned.
• 1:15:56
  I wanna think, I think it was at Ascot, Royal Ascot, and they would zoom in
• 1:16:01
  on a, on someone in the crowd and they would say, has body issues, you
• 1:16:06
  know, just, maybe it's the, maybe it's a jockey or one of the ladies
• 1:16:10
  serving, and then the other one would say, dealing with, dealing with grief.
• 1:16:14
  And it would just keep zooming in on, on different people.
• 1:16:19
  And it made you stop and think everybody's got a story.
• 1:16:23
  Everyone has something going on.
• 1:16:26
  You know, everyone needs what the horse has to give them at
• 1:16:33
  some level because everybody has something going on in their life.
• 1:16:38
  It goes to that little, I, I have a little sign in the kitchen that
• 1:16:41
  says, be nice because you don't know what the other person's going through.
• 1:16:48
  You know?
• 1:16:49
  Always be nice because you don't know what the other person's going through.
• 1:16:52
  You don't know what kind of day they're having.
• 1:16:54
  You don't know what their home life is.
• 1:16:55
  You don't know whether they're going through a, a, a parent dying or something.
• 1:16:59
  I mean, you just never know.
• 1:17:00
  So never take it personally.
• 1:17:05
  Rupert Isaacson: What would it's, to me, this goes beyond horses.
• 1:17:09
  and it goes back to the human car of story, right?
• 1:17:12
  So there you are as a little girl and.
• 1:17:15
  You are growing up in a household where you are, you are seeing
• 1:17:19
  your mother die slowly from grief, basically in front of your eyes.
• 1:17:23
  It manifests as cancer, but mm-hmm.
• 1:17:25
  Effectively that, and you see your older sister, functional, but walking
• 1:17:31
  dead to some degree because of this terrible guilt, of what happened to your
• 1:17:34
  brother, even though I'm sure it wasn't her fault, it was just a freak thing.
• 1:17:38
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:17:39
  and then you fortunately have this creative dynamic father who includes you
• 1:17:46
  in everything and, shows you, encourages you to, to be creative in every way,
• 1:17:50
  and shows you the creative power of what people often don't think of as creative.
• 1:17:55
  Things like the engineering side, the building side, that, that
• 1:17:58
  actually pointing out to machine tooling, that sort of thing.
• 1:18:01
  That, that is actually as creative as riding a novel or,
• 1:18:04
  or producing a piece of art.
• 1:18:06
  Then you get into, obviously horses and horse breeding, and suddenly you want to
• 1:18:10
  run a horse festival to promote stuff that you wouldn't normally see in your regular
• 1:18:16
  horse show, and that leads you into this, , very successful, Equus festival.
• 1:18:22
  but really it seems to me what you've done through the whole thing is you've, you've,
• 1:18:26
  you've identified the healing power of story and you've created a nexus whereby
• 1:18:32
  people can be healed through story.
• 1:18:35
  It happens to be about, primarily about horses, but it.
• 1:18:39
  Obviously could be pretty much any story if story is at the root of healing
• 1:18:46
  for humans and festivals are where we find out about and celebrate and give
• 1:18:57
  our attention to this type of healing.
• 1:19:00
  I, I think everyone who goes to a festival of one kind always comes
• 1:19:05
  away feeling uplifted, inspired.
• 1:19:08
  I know there's a lot of people out there probably listening
• 1:19:09
  who would like to do a festival.
• 1:19:12
  It's certainly always been in the back of mind.
• 1:19:14
  Oh God, I like to do a festival someday.
• 1:19:16
  But, I think a lot of people have this idea what, give us your nuts and bolts
• 1:19:21
  as a, as a the engineering side of you.
• 1:19:25
  How do you put a festival together and how do you make it work?
• 1:19:29
  Cuz most festivals don't work.
• 1:19:30
  How do you make a festival work?
• 1:19:33
  How do you do it?
• 1:19:34
  Lisa Diersen: Team, a great team having, having a great support team,
• 1:19:41
  people really good people helping.
• 1:19:44
  I've learned with, especially with the EQU component of this festival, with the film
• 1:19:51
  component that we partner now with next or the middle of July, I'll be at Briar
• 1:19:58
  Fest at the Kentucky Horse Park, which.
• 1:20:01
  For those out there that don't know what Briar Fest is.
• 1:20:05
  everyone I think globally knows what Briar horses are.
• 1:20:09
  They're the little model horses that come in a come in a yellow
• 1:20:14
  box, and every little girl usually has at least one of them.
• 1:20:18
  But Briar Fest gets about 40,000 people every year in at the horse park.
• 1:20:25
  We show, I go down there and we'll do a day of film screening.
• 1:20:29
  The films I've learned to partner with other festivals.
• 1:20:34
  We come in as a, as a component.
• 1:20:37
  two, two festivals now with the Mustang Summit where we have the
• 1:20:42
  film festival and the Mustang Summit kind of running simultaneously.
• 1:20:48
  one because there's some overlap between the documentaries and the, the
• 1:20:51
  storytellers of those documentaries, which happened to be horse people who then in
• 1:20:58
  the morning they can go watch a seminar with that horse person and then go in the
• 1:21:02
  evening and watch a documentary and sit through a q and a with the filmmaker who
• 1:21:07
  made a the film about that horse person.
• 1:21:10
  so I've learned that, oh, throughout the years, COVID was killer for two
• 1:21:15
  years, but we learned how to go virtual.
• 1:21:18
  We learned how to do a lot of stuff online.
• 1:21:21
  We have a film channel, EQU Films channel where people can go and
• 1:21:26
  watch, I think it's $7 a month, they can watch some of our horse
• 1:21:31
  documentaries and films on demand.
• 1:21:34
  The EQU film channel,
• 1:21:35
  Rupert Isaacson: it's taught us.
• 1:21:36
  How do, is that run by you or is that, is that, run by a larger,
• 1:21:40
  Lisa Diersen: we have, i, I, it's, it's under, film festival.
• 1:21:44
  Flix is who we are.
• 1:21:46
  Their, we are their horse channel.
• 1:21:49
  So it's a company out of, LA that I work with and, we are their,
• 1:21:54
  we are their horse content.
• 1:21:56
  So it's a whole dedicated channel, called the EQU Film Channel.
• 1:22:01
  there's an app that, that we have that's film Festival flicks.
• 1:22:05
  And then you we're on that app.
• 1:22:08
  you know what we, you learn, when before Covid, we were doing quite a
• 1:22:13
  few tour stops around the country.
• 1:22:15
  Every month we would be in a different location.
• 1:22:17
  Canada, you, I remember sitting down with you one time, we were
• 1:22:22
  at, the Abilities Expo in for the, the therapeutic expo where people
• 1:22:31
  could come and get their stuff.
• 1:22:32
  And you and I were talking, you were talking about at one day this,
• 1:22:36
  this film festival, you could, would be able to carry it in a suitcase.
• 1:22:40
  Well, we've gone from being in a suitcase to now it goes on a hard
• 1:22:44
  drive, so we can go anywhere with the film festival and screen these films.
• 1:22:49
  So if, if a little goal I have, I'd love to be doing something
• 1:22:54
  with, next week is the five schools.
• 1:22:59
  The five writing schools are doing a big presentation in Spain.
• 1:23:04
  And I did not know until a friend of mine is going to see this, that Abu
• 1:23:08
  Dhabi now has a classical writing school.
• 1:23:13
  Did you
• 1:23:13
  Rupert Isaacson: know that?
• 1:23:14
  I did not know that.
• 1:23:16
  We're talking about classical dressage in the, in the vein of, the Spanish
• 1:23:20
  Writing School of Vienna, that
• 1:23:22
  Lisa Diersen: France.
• 1:23:22
  Yes.
• 1:23:22
  So the, the Spanish Writing School is, is there, the Portuguese School is
• 1:23:27
  there, the Andalusian school is there.
• 1:23:30
  the school from France.
• 1:23:32
  France is there.
• 1:23:33
  And then the Saudi Arabian, I mean, the school for Abu Dhabi is there.
• 1:23:37
  So the five schools are coming together to do a big presentation in Spain.
• 1:23:42
  So I would love to take the festival to Abu Dhabi.
• 1:23:45
  I think that would be really cool to take the film festival there, to do a weekend
• 1:23:51
  screening or whatever, maybe Germany.
• 1:23:55
  And we, we did a little short one in France and we're talking
• 1:23:58
  to some people in the uk.
• 1:23:59
  So now that we're all past the Covid fear, I think, I think
• 1:24:04
  we'll be moving a little bit.
• 1:24:07
  Things have loosened up since January of this year.
• 1:24:11
  So since this January we've been in, i almost every month I've been
• 1:24:15
  somewhere else with the film festival.
• 1:24:17
  So it's finally shaking
• 1:24:21
  Rupert Isaacson: after.
• 1:24:22
  At what point would you say, let's talk about money?
• 1:24:25
  I think when people get an idea for a festival of any kind, there's an
• 1:24:31
  initial rush of enthusiasm and then they say, oh, but shit, we need sponsors.
• 1:24:36
  how do we do that?
• 1:24:37
  And everyone sort of scratches their head, no, we need to,
• 1:24:38
  looks, looks the other way.
• 1:24:40
  How do you get the money to run a festival?
• 1:24:43
  Talk to us.
• 1:24:44
  Let's say everyone's listening now wants to run a festival.
• 1:24:47
  What are the, what's the A, B, C, and D of how'd you get the money to
• 1:24:51
  Lisa Diersen: run a festival?
• 1:24:52
  We still need sponsors, but we, we take the money that we get from sponsors and
• 1:24:58
  you make the ends meet at that event and you do the best you can and you pray for
• 1:25:04
  a little bit of a turnout with people and you then plan for the next one.
• 1:25:09
  And
• 1:25:09
  Rupert Isaacson: what do you do to get it off the ground though?
• 1:25:11
  Do you have to just put in your own money?
• 1:25:13
  At first?
• 1:25:14
  You put in
• 1:25:14
  Lisa Diersen: your own money.
• 1:25:15
  You either put in your own money or you have people who are willing to
• 1:25:18
  put money in and that's your sponsors.
• 1:25:20
  And, I, equi has been very lucky because we have a couple
• 1:25:25
  of, people who really believe in what the mission is that have that.
• 1:25:31
  Regularly make a, a nice donation to keep the mission going.
• 1:25:36
  but you know, it's, it's, don't do it.
• 1:25:40
  If you think you're gonna make a fortune, but do it.
• 1:25:44
  I do it because I'm passionate.
• 1:25:46
  I, I believe that this is, that every time I say, dammit, I'm not doing this again.
• 1:25:55
  Somebody sends me a really great film and I'm like, dammit, I
• 1:25:58
  want everybody to see that film.
• 1:26:01
  And so, as long as the creators keep creating good horse stories, I think
• 1:26:09
  there needs to be someone out there reviewing and patting them on the back
• 1:26:16
  and, and maybe giving them an award for taking the time to, to make that content.
• 1:26:23
  And before we were in existence, before EQU was here, and to any big sponsors out
• 1:26:31
  there that might be listening, this is why I think it's a responsibility of a Purina
• 1:26:35
  or a, your bigger people who, who exist on horses, their, their business exists
• 1:26:43
  because of the horse they should be the ones really carrying the, carrying it on
• 1:26:50
  this because without those people telling, getting those stories to us, And us being
• 1:26:58
  there to say, wow, you did a great job.
• 1:27:00
  Or, here, let's have an audience that will actually see it.
• 1:27:04
  Then that little film will get made, and it might go on YouTube.
• 1:27:09
  Somebody might see it on YouTube, but only per chance.
• 1:27:14
  And then it just is out there in the internet world.
• 1:27:18
  So at least with us, someone sends us a film and it gets shown to the
• 1:27:25
  different audiences, and we help help get these stories out because
• 1:27:30
  otherwise how are they gonna get out?
• 1:27:32
  Rupert Isaacson: So Purina and the big, , feed companies and that's,
• 1:27:35
  they're not yet sponsoring you?
• 1:27:37
  Lisa Diersen: Not yet.
• 1:27:37
  Not yet.
• 1:27:38
  Okay.
• 1:27:38
  Okay.
• 1:27:38
  No, and that's after, that's after 11
• 1:27:40
  Rupert Isaacson: years, so, okay.
• 1:27:41
  Are you actively going after them saying, Hey,
• 1:27:44
  Lisa Diersen: we, yeah, we are knocking a little.
• 1:27:47
  we, we, it's, it's after the 10th year, things are changing a little.
• 1:27:51
  Like people, people go, oh, it's, you're not going away.
• 1:27:54
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:27:54
  So longevity is an important thing.
• 1:27:56
  You've got, you've gotta stick around.
• 1:27:57
  Oh, yes.
• 1:27:58
  Ok.
• 1:27:58
  Yes.
• 1:27:58
  Yes.
• 1:27:58
  talk to me about the, the, the structures.
• 1:28:00
  You said donations, are you what you'd call in America, a five
• 1:28:04
  oh one C three, or a nonprofit?
• 1:28:05
  What people in England will call charity?
• 1:28:08
  You're, you are a, a for-profit or a non-for-profit
• 1:28:10
  Lisa Diersen: organization or llc.
• 1:28:12
  what I've found, and again, this is in, in this country, I know a
• 1:28:18
  lot of people who've had some really great, nonprofits going and eg.
• 1:28:25
  Gala is the classic example.
• 1:28:28
  You, Lynn Thomas and Greg Kirsten started that organization and their
• 1:28:33
  boards voted them out, got rid of them.
• 1:28:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:28:38
  Which, you know, once they wanted to, I mean they just, once it was
• 1:28:44
  successful, the boards got rid of them.
• 1:28:46
  So,
• 1:28:47
  Rupert Isaacson: palace cos in a little bit the, the,
• 1:28:49
  Lisa Diersen: yeah.
• 1:28:49
  Yes.
• 1:28:50
  So the, I just think that this mission, we've really been able to stay true to
• 1:28:55
  the mission of what EQU is, and that's being the home to the storytellers of
• 1:29:01
  the horse world, whether it's through film or art or literature that we've
• 1:29:05
  been able to stay true to that because I don't have a board saying, well, we
• 1:29:10
  don't like this film, so I don't, I don't, you know, we're not, we're we
• 1:29:15
  don't have that the, the heavy hand of you're a nonprofit, you can't do this.
• 1:29:21
  So, but presumably though, no, we're
• 1:29:22
  Rupert Isaacson: for-profits.
• 1:29:23
  So in, in the American climate though, people obviously can give
• 1:29:27
  money to a not-for-profit, and get a tax deductible donation from that.
• 1:29:31
  and that allows people with nonprofits, to.
• 1:29:36
  To fundraise, quite effectively.
• 1:29:37
  You, you are saying you right to some degree denies yourself that mechanism.
• 1:29:41
  Do you, do you think that it would be easier if you were a nonprofit
• 1:29:45
  to get sponsors and funding?
• 1:29:47
  Lisa Diersen: it, it's a, it's a half and half because right now sponsor
• 1:29:51
  dollars are so tight everywhere.
• 1:29:53
  Even people who are nonprofits sponsor dollars are, are tough to come across.
• 1:30:00
  it just, we haven't, we haven't done gone after that yet, that part of it
• 1:30:06
  yet, because it is with c when Covid hit, I wasn't sure whether we were
• 1:30:11
  going to be able to keep it going.
• 1:30:15
  And then when we were able to, to keep plugging along through having,
• 1:30:20
  we, I mean we had two virtual festivals with Covid, had to do it
• 1:30:25
  completely online, wor it worked.
• 1:30:29
  It, it was, I don't know how we did it, but we did it.
• 1:30:33
  And, I mean, people had fun and people won awards and it,
• 1:30:38
  you know, we pulled through it.
• 1:30:40
  But, , you know, this has been a year to regroup this, this year.
• 1:30:45
  This is the first year since Covid that we've really, you know, gotten really
• 1:30:51
  back into things a hundred percent.
• 1:30:53
  Rupert Isaacson: So, But basically you're saying then that the, the EQU
• 1:30:56
  Film Festival runs as a business, like any other business, and it has
• 1:31:00
  to sink or swim, depending on Yes.
• 1:31:04
  so people that, so, so the people who donate, who, who become
• 1:31:08
  sponsors, what they're doing is they're investing in a business.
• 1:31:11
  Are they investing, investing in, are they investing in it looking for a return or
• 1:31:15
  are they investing in it, in it as angels?
• 1:31:18
  Lisa Diersen: They're investing as investor angels.
• 1:31:20
  Yeah.
• 1:31:21
  So what would you looking to keep the, keep it going.
• 1:31:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:31:24
  So if, if you are somebody out there, and I'm sure there will be people out there,
• 1:31:29
  and one of my goals with this podcast, is to help people who want to make a
• 1:31:37
  living doing the quote unquote impossible.
• 1:31:40
  as you have, as I have and so on.
• 1:31:43
  I want them to know what the mechanisms are because when, when I was younger, I
• 1:31:47
  couldn't really find people to mentor me and, and answer those questions for me.
• 1:31:52
  And I had to sort of piece it together Over years, let's say
• 1:31:56
  someone decides to go your route.
• 1:31:58
  They say, okay, I want to do a festival.
• 1:31:59
  I've been listening to this Lisa Dison lady.
• 1:32:01
  , she says, okay, that the, the danger of going the nonprofit
• 1:32:05
  route is that you could end up getting voted off your own board.
• 1:32:08
  Okay, copy that.
• 1:32:09
  so now I've got to find angel investors because my, it's not
• 1:32:12
  a purely commercial enterprise.
• 1:32:15
  I can't offer people a, you know, a.
• 1:32:18
  Shareholder thing or something.
• 1:32:19
  Not, at least not for the first hundred years.
• 1:32:21
  how do you go about finding angel investors?
• 1:32:25
  What's the ABC of that?
• 1:32:28
  Well,
• 1:32:29
  Lisa Diersen: one of our, one of our, our bigger and investors is someone
• 1:32:35
  who fully believes in what we're doing mission wise with connecting the veterans
• 1:32:43
  programs up with horses and, and horses up with the veterans programs and getting
• 1:32:49
  that message out across the country and that they feel that that work.
• 1:32:54
  Just, that just simply being able to get that message out there is as important as,
• 1:33:01
  you know, if it, if they were giving to a nonprofit that was, was running a program,
• 1:33:07
  just educating people that these programs are out there is really important.
• 1:33:11
  And that's, and we do that just simply by doing what we do, being who we are,
• 1:33:17
  tell being, telling these stories.
• 1:33:20
  another believes in get, making sure that the message on the
• 1:33:24
  Mustang Steep keeps getting told.
• 1:33:27
  And we do, we do that all the time because that's just part of
• 1:33:33
  Rupert Isaacson: a lot of our stories.
• 1:33:34
  So there people out there who, who are willing to invest, who share
• 1:33:37
  the same concerns and passions.
• 1:33:40
  Horses for mental health.
• 1:33:42
  As you, how do you find these people?
• 1:33:44
  Do?
• 1:33:44
  Would you say that someone who is, they've found us.
• 1:33:48
  Right?
• 1:33:49
  That's what I was gonna ask you.
• 1:33:50
  So if, if someone, again is listening to this and says, oh gosh, all
• 1:33:54
  right, I'd like to do this thing.
• 1:33:56
  I, I have this cause I would like to do a festival around this.
• 1:33:59
  Cause how do I find, do I go knock on doors or is it more, you just gotta start
• 1:34:03
  doing it and then people notice, just
• 1:34:06
  Lisa Diersen: do it.
• 1:34:06
  one of somebody asked me about this in an, in an interview and, because when we
• 1:34:13
  started this, I, I, all I wanted to do was to have people see your documentary.
• 1:34:20
  I didn't care how I was going to do it.
• 1:34:22
  I didn't care what it took.
• 1:34:24
  I wanted people to see.
• 1:34:26
  So I was lucky.
• 1:34:28
  I had a friend who owned a theater, but unless I ask him, your, your film
• 1:34:34
  isn't gonna magically appear there, I, I had to go talk to him and, and
• 1:34:38
  get him to let me use that theater.
• 1:34:41
  Thank God Ron was as gracious as he was because that's how the first festival
• 1:34:46
  got off the ground it and ran for a whole weekend in a, in a beautiful
• 1:34:50
  theater with an amazing technician running the films and me not knowing.
• 1:34:58
  Anything at all about how to run a film festival except for, okay, here's the
• 1:35:02
  movies, here's where they're gonna start.
• 1:35:04
  And the poor guy, I, I wasn't even putting breaks in between the, the films, but,
• 1:35:09
  you know, only by the grace of God have I learned how to run a film festival now.
• 1:35:13
  But, the first, the first year in New York, we did it in Harlem and
• 1:35:20
  did it in a theater where I had three screens and a hundred plus movies.
• 1:35:25
  And I thought, oh, this will be fun.
• 1:35:26
  And I, I literally ran myself ragged trying to help the projectionist
• 1:35:32
  make sure that everything was starting when it was supposed to.
• 1:35:35
  But, you just have to do it.
• 1:35:38
  You just don't sit back and go, oh, well I can't do it because of this.
• 1:35:41
  I can't do it because of that.
• 1:35:43
  If you believe in what you're doing and what, what your mission is, I hate to use
• 1:35:49
  that word, but it's, I fully believe, I mean, I was so passionate about, these
• 1:35:57
  are great stories, people need to see 'em, I'm gonna do it just so I just did it.
• 1:36:04
  Rupert Isaacson: And you had, but the reason you, you wanted people to see them
• 1:36:08
  was you had already a passion for how the horse can heal, which I presume, yeah.
• 1:36:14
  I him
• 1:36:14
  Lisa Diersen: for horses, period addiction.
• 1:36:16
  Right.
• 1:36:16
  Rupert Isaacson: But you, you yourself, have been healed by stories of horses
• 1:36:21
  as a girl, as well as by actual horses.
• 1:36:24
  Yes, but had you not had access to an actual horse and you'd been in that
• 1:36:29
  household watching your mother die of sadness, those stories about horses still
• 1:36:33
  would've carried you a long way through.
• 1:36:36
  No.
• 1:36:36
  so yes, from that early, early experience to now you fostered a, a knowledge that
• 1:36:45
  story can heal and story about these healing animals can heal it even more.
• 1:36:50
  what are the biggest mistakes you've made, putting all this together would you say?
• 1:36:57
  Lisa Diersen: Oh my gosh, biggest mistakes and what?
• 1:36:59
  It's just not having enough money ever to do it the way I wanted to do it.
• 1:37:04
  And, and I'm not even sure that's a mistake because that's caused,
• 1:37:09
  that's created another learning opportunity, that's taught me
• 1:37:13
  another way to get something done.
• 1:37:17
  So, you know, that maybe ha having, partnering with some people that I, you
• 1:37:24
  know, you partner with because you're at you, you need to have that extra
• 1:37:30
  money and to make, to make it go, you know, to, to make the film festival go.
• 1:37:35
  And it's not exactly who you, you'd wanna partner with.
• 1:37:40
  Maybe that, and I don't think those were mistakes because through
• 1:37:43
  those mistakes, through that, that.
• 1:37:48
  Having that happen, I learned how to deal with other, other parts of it.
• 1:37:53
  So, you know, I learned a lot about the WildHorse people through different things.
• 1:37:59
  You know, I, I went into it like Pollyanna thinking that if everybody loved Mustangs,
• 1:38:05
  they were all, you know, everybody was in this la la world loving mustangs.
• 1:38:09
  Not knowing that there were completely one radical group on one side and another
• 1:38:15
  rabid radical group on another side.
• 1:38:18
  You know, it's, it's right.
• 1:38:19
  And you find yourself in middle.
• 1:38:21
  Every issue is
• 1:38:21
  Rupert Isaacson: that way.
• 1:38:22
  I basically is the message there that there are no mistakes.
• 1:38:25
  It's just all learning curve.
• 1:38:27
  Yes.
• 1:38:29
  Lisa Diersen: But isn't that life?
• 1:38:31
  Rupert Isaacson: I would say so.
• 1:38:32
  Yes.
• 1:38:33
  you know, sometimes one can say, does it, does it have to
• 1:38:36
  happen, with a baseball bat?
• 1:38:38
  You know, could we not have it happen with a polite cup of tea
• 1:38:41
  and a and a blank check, please.
• 1:38:43
  Lisa Diersen: but would we learn that much, Rupert?
• 1:38:45
  Would we really learn?
• 1:38:46
  Would we be where we're at right
• 1:38:48
  Rupert Isaacson: now?
• 1:38:48
  I'm willing, I'm willing to, to find out.
• 1:38:53
  I'm ready.
• 1:38:55
  Well, I think what also happens too is that when it, when it does go smoothly,
• 1:38:58
  of course, and it does actually quite a lot of the time, more, more,
• 1:39:01
  more than we, we give it credit for.
• 1:39:03
  I, I think what happens is, of course, because of the negative bias in the
• 1:39:07
  human brain, you know, you remember your close encounter with the elephant.
• 1:39:11
  More than you remember, or your peaceful encounters with the elephant, because that
• 1:39:15
  was the one that made a big impression.
• 1:39:18
  But that also Yeah, where you learned probably the most about elephants.
• 1:39:21
  you know, I'm just saying if, if, if you're sort of a bushman in the wild, so
• 1:39:25
  I, I, but I very much agree with you that when it seems that one has made terrible
• 1:39:32
  mistakes in retrospect, generally one looks back at those and go, oh, that
• 1:39:37
  was actually where, I learned the most about how to make this thing really work.
• 1:39:42
  I just had to see that extreme of not working in order to understand
• 1:39:47
  where the middle point of working was.
• 1:39:49
  but at the time I couldn't quite see that because there
• 1:39:52
  was a lot of stress going on.
• 1:39:53
  but yeah, I, I, I think, I think for listeners, you know, I grew
• 1:39:59
  up always being told, oh, Rupert, those things you want to do, you
• 1:40:03
  can't make a living doing that.
• 1:40:04
  You know, you can't make a living through horses.
• 1:40:06
  And I remember thinking, but there's this thing called the equine industry.
• 1:40:09
  I mean, some, someone out there is making a living at it.
• 1:40:11
  You know, why, why, why not me?
• 1:40:13
  Oh, Rupert, you can't make a living, you writing books.
• 1:40:16
  Well, but there's this thing called the publishing industry.
• 1:40:17
  I mean, someone is out there fueling that.
• 1:40:21
  Right?
• 1:40:21
  it's not just.
• 1:40:23
  publishing aristocrats or something?
• 1:40:25
  No, there's, there's people out there making a living.
• 1:40:26
  I mean, films the same thing.
• 1:40:28
  Why you can't do that, you know, you got, but, and I, what I realized was that
• 1:40:31
  people meant they felt that they couldn't do it, and that if you did it, it would
• 1:40:38
  make 'em feel bad about themselves.
• 1:40:39
  So they would try to discourage you.
• 1:40:41
  And so what you had to do was not listen to that.
• 1:40:44
  And I, I was discouraged earlier in my life and there were a few things
• 1:40:47
  I didn't do because people talked me out of it, which I later realized
• 1:40:51
  actually, I, I could totally have done.
• 1:40:53
  And, and maybe will at some point.
• 1:40:55
  you seem to have been somebody who also has made your living.
• 1:41:00
  You've made your living through horses, you've made your living.
• 1:41:02
  I know, I know your breeding has been successful with the lucit as
• 1:41:05
  you've, you've shown successfully.
• 1:41:07
  You, you've made a great success of the Quis Festival and you say, okay, maybe
• 1:41:12
  it's not as much money as you would've wanted, but the fact that you even have
• 1:41:15
  made it into this 11th year and it's still running and it's carrying you, it, it's,
• 1:41:18
  it's, that's an extraordinary achievement.
• 1:41:20
  I mean, it's, we, we know that that's not anything to be sniffed at.
• 1:41:26
  but a lot of people out there do feel that they can't live
• 1:41:29
  free and ride free as you have.
• 1:41:32
  And of course, you are making a festival that shows people living
• 1:41:36
  free and riding free, literally.
• 1:41:39
  what do you think people can do to unlock.
• 1:41:43
  Themselves from that little nagging voice that says they can't,
• 1:41:49
  Lisa Diersen: well, don't you think saying I can't is just your fear?
• 1:41:54
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, sure, but I mean, fear is a real thing.
• 1:41:56
  So what is people's
• 1:41:58
  Lisa Diersen: Right?
• 1:41:58
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 1:41:58
  It is a real thing.
• 1:41:59
  What what is what?
• 1:42:01
  How, how in, in, in, in your, do you feel people can create a practice
• 1:42:06
  where they can begin to just climb
• 1:42:08
  Lisa Diersen: out of that hole?
• 1:42:09
  You, you, you got, you've got to, I, I just went through this last year and I
• 1:42:15
  know you went through the same thing too when you went, and I, and I didn't get a
• 1:42:19
  chance to ask you before, but like when I, when I broke my leg last year, that
• 1:42:27
  first time, well, first of all, ha having to go almost a month before I could go
• 1:42:34
  back into even maybe a month and a half before I could even go back into a barn
• 1:42:38
  and see my horse was like the worst part of my life that I can remember.
• 1:42:44
  But, that the first time I sat back on my horse after I, I had got my boot off
• 1:42:51
  and I could put, I mean the, the cast boot and could put my, even, I, I had,
• 1:42:57
  I didn't even have a riding boot on yet.
• 1:42:59
  I was able to wear my barn clog to sit back on my horse.
• 1:43:04
  I, I don't wanna say it was terrifying, but it was, I was like, oh my God,
• 1:43:09
  am I really gonna do this again?
• 1:43:11
  Because the, going through the, the, the pain I had mine was a compound
• 1:43:17
  spiral fracture completely out my ankle.
• 1:43:19
  So it was a, it was pretty painful.
• 1:43:22
  So I, your mind is saying, don't I, you don't wanna go back through that again.
• 1:43:26
  But my, I, I was just saying I'm gonna do this.
• 1:43:30
  I'm just gonna do it.
• 1:43:31
  I need, I cannot go the rest of my life not riding my horse.
• 1:43:37
  I can't do that.
• 1:43:38
  It's too much of a part of me.
• 1:43:40
  And so I just did it.
• 1:43:42
  And even if the first time was just going and walking around the indoor arena and
• 1:43:48
  getting back off of that horse again, and this was my white stallion who I had just
• 1:43:55
  gelded maybe three, four months before, a couple months before I had my accident.
• 1:44:02
  So he was still feeling all testosterone.
• 1:44:06
  Still a lot of horse.
• 1:44:07
  Yeah.
• 1:44:08
  Still a lot of horse.
• 1:44:09
  And he, even though he's 22 now and he's still a lot of horse.
• 1:44:13
  Yeah.
• 1:44:13
  but I sat on him and I did it and I, and I accomplished that and we
• 1:44:18
  came out of Covid and I went, are we gonna do the festival again Live?
• 1:44:21
  But we went ahead and we just did it.
• 1:44:24
  And I had that last year when we, cuz we did it in Sacramento, California,
• 1:44:31
  because that's where we ended the ride.
• 1:44:33
  And, and I, and everybody was in California.
• 1:44:36
  I had a, an author come in from, oh my God, oh my gosh.
• 1:44:41
  fin not Finland, nor Norway, I think came in, no, Sweden.
• 1:44:45
  She came in from Sweden who came all the way there, lost her luggage
• 1:44:50
  at the thing, but she just did it.
• 1:44:52
  She just came to the festival cause she was so excited about
• 1:44:56
  coming and being part of it.
• 1:44:58
  If you ha if you just do it, just take that first step and just do it.
• 1:45:04
  It makes doing it easier every time.
• 1:45:06
  The next time you do
• 1:45:07
  Rupert Isaacson: something is, is what it comes down to.
• 1:45:10
  I mean, one could say feel the fear and do it anyway, but does it
• 1:45:12
  come down to basically small steps?
• 1:45:15
  The idea that steps and, and what can seem like a small step to one person
• 1:45:20
  feels like a giant step for somebody else.
• 1:45:22
  I I remember when I was younger having less patience.
• 1:45:27
  I was like, oh, you know, someone's just get over themselves.
• 1:45:29
  And, and then someone said, well, Ru for example, you're terrified of eggs.
• 1:45:34
  I know that it, you will rather leap out of a first floor window than first
• 1:45:39
  floor European sense, than a third floor window, than than eat an egg.
• 1:45:43
  That yes, someone pulls an egg on you.
• 1:45:45
  You know, you, you, you, you have, you have achilles heels
• 1:45:48
  that you don't think you have.
• 1:45:50
  well, if, if I said to just get over it and just eat that egg and
• 1:45:54
  you're sitting there overcome with nausea and suddenly you're like a.
• 1:45:57
  Little autistic child going, I, I actually really am afraid of this even though
• 1:46:00
  it's just an egg, you know, this is not sitting in a riot in South Africa.
• 1:46:04
  Or, you know, other things that have happened to me that I
• 1:46:08
  find I find the egg more scary.
• 1:46:10
  I do.
• 1:46:11
  And, someone pointed that out to me and said, what would it
• 1:46:14
  take for you to eat that egg?
• 1:46:16
  And I was like, you know, actually that's a really good question.
• 1:46:18
  because it's become like a phobia.
• 1:46:20
  and I suppose if I had to see what it'd probably take is, you know, extreme
• 1:46:23
  hunger, but let's say it wasn't that.
• 1:46:26
  It would be somehow making friends with the idea of egg, you know what I mean?
• 1:46:30
  And somehow, runny texture and the stink and all the things that
• 1:46:34
  nauseate me about them, what would I need to do to get over them?
• 1:46:37
  And I realized, ah, yes, to many people, that seems completely absurd.
• 1:46:43
  and they'd say, Rupert, just get over it.
• 1:46:45
  And to me that seems like this huge thing.
• 1:46:48
  even though one has faced things in one's life that are obviously much more real.
• 1:46:53
  And, so I thought, well, what would it take?
• 1:46:55
  And I thought, well, I suppose it would, it would take breaking what looks like
• 1:47:01
  one step for somebody else down into as many steps as it would take for each
• 1:47:09
  one of those steps to not feel like a big step, which could probably be
• 1:47:13
  a hundred or a thousand steps, which somebody else would roll their eyes at.
• 1:47:18
  But for me or someone with a phobia about spiders or somebody which can't
• 1:47:23
  get out of bed because of depression, you know, and I've been there, I
• 1:47:25
  know you've probably been there.
• 1:47:27
  it, it's that first half step, that quarter step, that eighth of a step,
• 1:47:31
  that 16th of a step, that what's the fraction that's doable now today
• 1:47:42
  And can that I, cause I, I, I, I, I think what happens is that we all
• 1:47:45
  judge ourselves by other people and we think, let's say we wanna write a
• 1:47:50
  book where you want to do a festival.
• 1:47:51
  We say, well, there's Lisa Dyson, she's done a festival,
• 1:47:53
  or this person never there.
• 1:47:54
  They've written a book and you've already projected yourself in your mind to the
• 1:47:59
  finished festival, the finished book.
• 1:48:01
  And then there's that moment of euphoria and then there's that.
• 1:48:04
  Ah, but I can't do that cuz I dunno how to do that.
• 1:48:07
  I don't understand the mechanisms.
• 1:48:08
  And then you would say, just do it.
• 1:48:10
  Or just take, but really then you said, just take the first step.
• 1:48:13
  You know?
• 1:48:14
  So is it about finding that first step or that first half step or
• 1:48:21
  that first fraction of a step?
• 1:48:23
  Is that really what it is, do you think?
• 1:48:27
  Lisa Diersen: yeah, I think yes.
• 1:48:29
  For me it would be eating bugs.
• 1:48:30
  But
• 1:48:32
  Rupert Isaacson: see, no problem with that.
• 1:48:33
  For me, it munch bugs all day.
• 1:48:35
  Yeah, totally.
• 1:48:35
  Oh, as long as they don't got, as they're not presented today, eat eggs all
• 1:48:41
  Lisa Diersen: Yeah, no, I, yeah, you just have to.
• 1:48:44
  It doesn't matter how big the step, it's just as long as the step is forward.
• 1:48:49
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:48:51
  I, I, I forget which, is it lasu or is it Confucius or, it's one of those, it's ne
• 1:48:57
  never mock somebody who is engaged in an endeavor in which they're moving forward,
• 1:49:03
  no matter how incrementally or in, no matter how tiny a, a fashion, they are
• 1:49:08
  more courageous than you, your mockery.
• 1:49:12
  and they'll probably get there, and or they'll set into process, into motion
• 1:49:16
  a process where even after their death, that thing will probably be achieved.
• 1:49:21
  I guess would you say that, by showcasing these stories about people
• 1:49:28
  taking these journeys, cuz it's, it, it seems that the, the films that
• 1:49:32
  you've listed as the sort of masses, that they're all seem to be journeys,
• 1:49:35
  pilgrimages, really, to wellness.
• 1:49:39
  Would you say that really what you're doing is you're showing
• 1:49:43
  people taking those steps?
• 1:49:44
  There's a first step, isn't there?
• 1:49:46
  The first they mount the horse and they take a step,
• 1:49:51
  Lisa Diersen: right?
• 1:49:51
  Right.
• 1:49:52
  Yes, yes.
• 1:49:55
  Rupert Isaacson: The, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
• 1:49:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:50:02
  Single, single hoof print.
• 1:50:06
  I guess we can then follow the traces of the hoof prints of
• 1:50:10
  those who've gone before us.
• 1:50:12
  Right.
• 1:50:12
  And find our way.
• 1:50:13
  You, okay.
• 1:50:14
  So I just want to, to go back over some of these films that you've said
• 1:50:19
  that other masses, you, you, you mentioned, riding my way back mm-hmm.
• 1:50:26
  You mentioned healing horses.
• 1:50:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:50:29
  You mentioned the long rider.
• 1:50:32
  Yes.
• 1:50:33
  And you mentioned unbranded.
• 1:50:35
  Lisa Diersen: Unbranded is available pretty much so globally.
• 1:50:39
  I think I have Healing Horse up on the EQU Film Festival YouTube channel
• 1:50:45
  or on our, on the EQU Film channel.
• 1:50:50
  How
• 1:50:50
  Rupert Isaacson: do people access the EQU film channel?
• 1:50:52
  Lisa Diersen: Again?
• 1:50:53
  You can, there's a link right on the front of our, it's equ film
• 1:50:58
  festival.net, which is our website.
• 1:51:01
  There's a, a link right on the front page
• 1:51:04
  Rupert Isaacson: at Chris Film Festival net.
• 1:51:07
  Yeah.
• 1:51:07
  Yep.
• 1:51:08
  Lisa Diersen: And that takes you right to the, to the, film
• 1:51:11
  channel and people can subscribe.
• 1:51:14
  And then, the Felipe's film, the long writer is under, it's out for distribution
• 1:51:20
  right now, so I'm not sure if they've got their, distribution in place.
• 1:51:26
  So the only place that anybody can see that is when it we're doing one of our
• 1:51:31
  tour stops with e with the film festival.
• 1:51:34
  So we, I think we will be screening that in, dur or
• 1:51:38
  Westcliffe Colorado in September.
• 1:51:41
  But the other film that we were talking about too was Lady Long
• 1:51:45
  Rider, which is the story about Bernice Endy Lady Long Rider.
• 1:51:51
  Right?
• 1:51:51
  Yeah.
• 1:51:52
  And, and that film, that filmmaker has available.
• 1:51:58
  I think if you just type in Lady Long Rider Bernice Endy, it'll pop
• 1:52:02
  up where to, to go to see that.
• 1:52:05
  Cuz that's available pay-per-view on her, on the, the filmmaker's own channel.
• 1:52:10
  Okay.
• 1:52:10
  And that's a, it's a beautiful documentary.
• 1:52:12
  It's, it's very well done.
• 1:52:14
  It's, at that time when she filmed that Bernice was down riding two halfling
• 1:52:20
  horses across the, around the country, up and down the, the continent, so to speak.
• 1:52:28
  And so we had, we had a documentary, A Man, a Mule America,
• 1:52:33
  Rupert Isaacson: A Man Which, A mule?
• 1:52:35
  A Mule, A America.
• 1:52:38
  Lisa Diersen: And how do people see that?
• 1:52:40
  Pardon me?
• 1:52:41
  I'm just, I'm trying to remember the name of these are, this film was
• 1:52:45
  probably eight, seven or eight years ago.
• 1:52:47
  But he wrote, he followed, because at one point before the continent of the
• 1:52:54
  United States was actually a continent.
• 1:52:55
  It was a lost C, there was a lost C in the middle.
• 1:52:58
  And Bernie Hubbert is the, is the filmmaker's name.
• 1:53:02
  And Bernie had a mule in a, in a little wa with a little wagon.
• 1:53:09
  Like the wagon was only big enough that he could sleep in.
• 1:53:12
  And he followed that whole trail all the way down from Canada to Mexico
• 1:53:20
  to the Mexico border with his, he a man and a mule across America.
• 1:53:26
  Just the stories
• 1:53:27
  Rupert Isaacson: and exploring the Lost Ocean.
• 1:53:28
  The lost prehistoric ocean.
• 1:53:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:53:30
  Yes.
• 1:53:31
  People Did you just look it, people find that on what, what can, can people
• 1:53:34
  find that on, Chris film festival
• 1:53:36
  Lisa Diersen: net?
• 1:53:36
  I I, no, he hasn't, he hasn't got that back out yet.
• 1:53:41
  It's getting re-released this year into the film festival.
• 1:53:45
  It was on PBS a few times.
• 1:53:47
  Okay.
• 1:53:47
  But it, he's, he's updating it and it'll be in this year's film festival again.
• 1:53:53
  Fantastic.
• 1:53:53
  Rupert Isaacson: Now, you, you said that the film festival is happening
• 1:53:56
  live in Westcliffe, Colorado.
• 1:53:58
  Well,
• 1:53:58
  Lisa Diersen: we have one that'll be in Westcliffe, Colorado.
• 1:54:02
  That it will be a big Mustang summit, along That's the Mustang Summit.
• 1:54:06
  Okay.
• 1:54:06
  Yeah.
• 1:54:07
  And, and we will be screening films there.
• 1:54:10
  So that's When is that?
• 1:54:12
  Yeah.
• 1:54:12
  September 29th and 30th, and then October 1st, and then our main
• 1:54:18
  festival is in Sacramento, California.
• 1:54:21
  November 17th, 18th, and 19th.
• 1:54:25
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:54:26
  Um, where is Westcliffe Colorado?
• 1:54:30
  Lisa Diersen: Westcliffe is on the south east side of the Rocky Mountains.
• 1:54:36
  So it's, south, directly south, about two and a half
• 1:54:41
  hour drive from Denver, so maybe
• 1:54:43
  Rupert Isaacson: three hours.
• 1:54:44
  Denver, around Pueblo area, would you
• 1:54:46
  Lisa Diersen: say?
• 1:54:46
  Pueblo, Colorado Springs area.
• 1:54:48
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:54:49
  Okay.
• 1:54:50
  that's the Mustang Summit.
• 1:54:51
  Summit south of Colorado.
• 1:54:52
  So Mustang Summit the 27th.
• 1:54:55
  Be 27th.
• 1:54:56
  September to October 1st, basically.
• 1:54:59
  Yep.
• 1:54:59
  In Westcliffe, Colorado.
• 1:55:01
  And then the, film festival itself and the General Arts Festival
• 1:55:05
  will be in Sacramento, November.
• 1:55:07
  Again.
• 1:55:08
  Give us the dates.
• 1:55:09
  Lisa Diersen: 17th, 18th,
• 1:55:10
  Rupert Isaacson: and 19th.
• 1:55:11
  17th, 18th and 19th.
• 1:55:13
  And they can get all this information on equ film festival.net.
• 1:55:18
  Yes.
• 1:55:18
  On the website.
• 1:55:20
  Okay.
• 1:55:20
  if somebody has a, a equine arts project, how do they submit to your festival?
• 1:55:29
  Lisa Diersen: They can reach out to.
• 1:55:31
  To me, via email, or they can go to the website or reach out on our Facebook page.
• 1:55:38
  But our website has applications for the artist.
• 1:55:42
  It has applications for filmmakers.
• 1:55:43
  It has applications for the podcasters and for the authors.
• 1:55:49
  Perfect.
• 1:55:49
  So all of those applications are available right on the front page of the
• 1:55:53
  Rupert Isaacson: website.
• 1:55:54
  What is the email address that people want to get through to
• 1:55:56
  Lisa Diersen: you?
• 1:55:57
  It's Lisa Equ film Festival net.
• 1:56:02
  Rupert Isaacson: L i s a.
• 1:56:03
  Lisa?
• 1:56:05
  Yes.
• 1:56:07
  Lisa Diersen: EQ uu.
• 1:56:10
  S F I.
• 1:56:12
  LM festival.
• 1:56:14
  S festival T ia l net
• 1:56:17
  Rupert Isaacson: net.
• 1:56:18
  Lisa equ festival net.
• 1:56:21
  Well, hopefully, some of the listeners will be submitting some of their stuff.
• 1:56:24
  You guys should, , remember, take that step.
• 1:56:27
  If you've got a, if you've got a project, Lisa's one of the
• 1:56:31
  nicest people in the world.
• 1:56:32
  She's not gonna write your letter back saying You suck.
• 1:56:34
  so, and if it doesn't make it in into the festival, she'll have
• 1:56:38
  advice for you about what to do.
• 1:56:41
  So, and
• 1:56:42
  Lisa Diersen: if I look behind me, there's at least 300 books in the festival
• 1:56:48
  that I have on shelves just behind me.
• 1:56:52
  So that have been entered over the past couple of years.
• 1:56:56
  Rupert Isaacson: And, E even if something doesn't make it in, , what are
• 1:57:01
  your words of encouragement to people?
• 1:57:03
  Because, you know, th this happened to me, you know, when I was submitting
• 1:57:06
  stuff, submitting books, submitting films, it wasn't always successful.
• 1:57:10
  People didn't always take it.
• 1:57:11
  but it didn't me, I didn't take that as meaning that I should stop submitting.
• 1:57:17
  Right, right.
• 1:57:18
  What's, what's your word of advice for people who are going through
• 1:57:22
  that process where they're sort of laying their baby, their work on the
• 1:57:25
  line for acceptance or rejection?
• 1:57:28
  Lisa Diersen: Well, I do that every single time.
• 1:57:31
  I put a start, have another festival.
• 1:57:33
  I'm putting it out there for people to either like it or dislike it.
• 1:57:37
  But the, , what I can tell people is, first of all, if you've written
• 1:57:43
  something or made a piece of artwork or created a film about something
• 1:57:48
  that you're passionate about, somebody out there is going to acknowledge it.
• 1:57:54
  And it maybe you're just sending it to somebody who doesn't understand
• 1:57:58
  what you're trying to tell 'em.
• 1:57:59
  And that mean doesn't mean anything.
• 1:58:01
  That means that just simply the person you sent it to wasn't the right person
• 1:58:05
  to just keep trying, keep sending it.
• 1:58:08
  I mean, you know what it's like to keep sending in a manuscript
• 1:58:13
  and, and being told no.
• 1:58:15
  Yeah.
• 1:58:15
  So you just keep trying keep and keep at it
• 1:58:18
  Rupert Isaacson: most, by the way, most good books, most good films, so.
• 1:58:23
  Were turned down Yes.
• 1:58:24
  By quite a few people before they found their homes.
• 1:58:27
  and it's easy to forget that, you know, music too, you know, bands that seem to
• 1:58:31
  come out of nowhere, you know, and then they get interviewed and like, actually
• 1:58:33
  no, we were gigging for about 20 years.
• 1:58:35
  It's just that we started in middle school.
• 1:58:37
  Yes, exactly.
• 1:58:39
  Before we had any kind of break.
• 1:58:41
  I, I agree with you.
• 1:58:42
  It's, it's to keep putting one foot in front of the other thing.
• 1:58:45
  don't give up.
• 1:58:46
  whether your dream is to have the festival or whether your dream is to
• 1:58:49
  put together pieces of art that get shown in festivals or both, the art
• 1:58:54
  of story and the, and, and the world.
• 1:58:55
  It's interesting.
• 1:58:56
  I feel that the world never runs out of the need for story.
• 1:58:59
  Lisa Diersen: Oh my gosh.
• 1:59:00
  No, there's always another story.
• 1:59:03
  There's al someone, every single living human being has a story.
• 1:59:10
  Everybody has their story.
• 1:59:12
  Everyone has a story.
• 1:59:16
  Yeah.
• 1:59:17
  Everybody does.
• 1:59:19
  It's, it's, and, and I think you become an adult when you realize that everybody
• 1:59:27
  has a story and you need to give everybody kind of time to tell their story.
• 1:59:34
  You know, when it j when you figure out, oh wow.
• 1:59:36
  It's not just about I'm not special, I'm just one more story.
• 1:59:41
  Yeah.
• 1:59:42
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:59:42
  And yet each story is completely unique.
• 1:59:44
  Yeah.
• 1:59:46
  It's, and your story is healing, if it's given the chance to be.
• 1:59:49
  I agree.
• 1:59:50
  . well, Lisa, thank you for coming on and turning us on to the Healing Power Story.
• 1:59:56
  Thank you for letting the listeners know, that Equus Film Festival exists.
• 2:00:02
  I would thank you, encourage you, if you're listening and you're not into
• 2:00:06
  horses, check it out anyway, because you don't need to be horsey to appreciate
• 2:00:12
  a good story, and you don't need to be horsey to appreciate a story about,
• 2:00:19
  what was it that you said sentient?
• 2:00:21
  That sentient beings, the human relationship with sentient beings
• 2:00:25
  is important for human health.
• 2:00:27
  maybe there'll be something to be learned.
• 2:00:29
  I hope to catch up with you at one of the festivals.
• 2:00:32
  It's been a long time since I was there, and it's sort of given me a
• 2:00:35
  bit of a kick in the pants to, to, to to, to get to it again, actually.
• 2:00:40
  So I, I, I would love to.
• 2:00:41
  So maybe we'll see some of the listeners there.
• 2:00:44
  any, any parting words before we, before we close Lisa?
• 2:00:49
  Lisa Diersen: Oh, anybody who wants to, to do it and has a dream to
• 2:00:53
  do it, get out there and do it.
• 2:00:57
  Okay.
• 2:00:57
  Everybody want, the world is waiting for your story.
• 2:01:01
  Rupert Isaacson: It's very true.
• 2:01:02
  And it doesn't matter.
• 2:01:03
  I, I, you know, people say, well, who'd be interested in my story?
• 2:01:06
  It doesn't matter if it's only one person.
• 2:01:07
  I remember right when I was first, trying to raise money for the human
• 2:01:11
  rights work that I used to do, and it started with an event I put together
• 2:01:19
  to which five people showed up.
• 2:01:22
  Lisa Diersen: Yeah, but you changed those five people saw it Uber.
• 2:01:26
  Well,
• 2:01:26
  Rupert Isaacson: what happened was one of those five people
• 2:01:28
  went and spoke to someone, right?
• 2:01:30
  And I, I got a phone call three months later from someone saying, you don't
• 2:01:33
  know who I am, but I've been researching this thing that you're talking about.
• 2:01:37
  And yes, I see this is a good cause and I'm gonna back it.
• 2:01:42
  And so never think that it's wasted time.
• 2:01:46
  Never think that any audience is too small.
• 2:01:48
  I agree with you.
• 2:01:49
  Lisa, get out there and do it.
• 2:01:50
  Get out there and tell the story.
• 2:01:52
  Tell the story.
• 2:01:53
  Lisa Diersen: Look at what happened because of your story.
• 2:01:58
  You know, that, I mean, this is why, this is why this festival exists.
• 2:02:02
  Why?
• 2:02:02
  You're, because I was motivated by your story.
• 2:02:05
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, you're very kind.
• 2:02:06
  it seems to me though, that really what happened was perhaps
• 2:02:10
  my story was a catalyst for yes.
• 2:02:13
  That that little girl who had had discovered the healing power of
• 2:02:17
  story decades before where she needed that healing, in that house
• 2:02:23
  with, that had had that tragedy.
• 2:02:26
  And so I'm honored if my story was a catalyst in that.
• 2:02:30
  But I do know from what you said that you'd have done it anyway.
• 2:02:37
  And that's, and that's a wonderful thing.
• 2:02:40
  So I'm honored to be the catalyst in what would've in an avalanche
• 2:02:46
  that would've happened regardless.
• 2:02:48
  cuz you're, you're, you're, you're, you're a pa a force of nature, Lisa.
• 2:02:52
  And by the way, if you're interested in the lucit tarno horse and you
• 2:02:55
  jolly well should be cuz they're the best riding horse on the planet.
• 2:02:58
  I'm sorry, but they're, you should check out Lisa Di as a, as a breeder.
• 2:03:02
  She, the horses she's producing are, are wonderful.
• 2:03:05
  but I'll, I'll let you find that through Google, Lisa Dis
• 2:03:10
  Lisa Diersen: and, and any of those people out there that wanna find that, that don't
• 2:03:15
  have pockets full of money and want an amazing horse, the American Mustang horse
• 2:03:21
  because of the Siberian, that's very true.
• 2:03:23
  Ties or the lusitano horse to the Mustang horse's, Iberian ties because
• 2:03:28
  now we found through all the d n a research that every horse on the planet,
• 2:03:35
  originated on the North American plateau.
• 2:03:37
  So actually our ano horse are descendants of the original Mustang horses.
• 2:03:43
  And when those horses went.
• 2:03:46
  Over the bearing straits and came back around and went to
• 2:03:49
  the Andalusian and, and Iberian Peninsula and became Spanish horses.
• 2:03:56
  They were reintroduced when the Spaniards came to Mexico and
• 2:04:00
  Con tried to conquer Mexico.
• 2:04:02
  That's how the American Mustang horse got or reintroduced with the Spanish blood.
• 2:04:09
  And that's why they thrive on the North American Plateau cause they're back home.
• 2:04:14
  I mean, there's an amazing documentary called Return of the
• 2:04:17
  Horse, and I'll send you the name.
• 2:04:19
  Sharon Ila Sha was that filmmaker and that is on the EQU Film Channel.
• 2:04:26
  It's probably one of the return of the horse.
• 2:04:28
  Return of the horse.
• 2:04:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:04:30
  Everybody that's a horse person should watch that.
• 2:04:33
  It's very, very, very good.
• 2:04:34
  It was financed by the Spanish Horse Foundation and, or the
• 2:04:39
  Spanish Mustang Foundation.
• 2:04:40
  And it's, it's a beautifully well-made documentary about the origin through
• 2:04:47
  d n a research of Quis Cabales.
• 2:04:52
  Rupert Isaacson: I'm just Googling it now.
• 2:04:54
  Return of the Horse
• 2:04:56
  Lisa Diersen: and Sharon, I think it's s h a r r o n or l Shar was the filmmaker.
• 2:05:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Oh, okay.
• 2:05:04
  So I'm on idb.com.
• 2:05:07
  return of the Horse is a highly researched, scientific and
• 2:05:09
  historical documentary about.
• 2:05:13
  The North American native horse spanning over 57 million years.
• 2:05:17
  This documentary explores the science and history of the modern horse, its
• 2:05:20
  evolution in prehistoric America, and then return in the historical period with the
• 2:05:25
  Spaniards in the 15th century, the impact on Native Americans, and finally, the Euro
• 2:05:30
  American relationship with the wild horse from establishment in America till today.
• 2:05:35
  That sounds like a must watch.
• 2:05:37
  Lisa Diersen: It is, and you can watch it on the EQU Film Channel.
• 2:05:40
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 2:05:41
  I will be there.
• 2:05:42
  also what you say about Mustangs is true.
• 2:05:44
  my son, Rowan, I still maintain a horse for him, and that horse is a Mustang.
• 2:05:49
  Lisa Diersen: oh, Rupert, we, you and I need to talk further about that Okay.
• 2:05:53
  Rupert Isaacson: After this.
• 2:05:54
  Okay.
• 2:05:54
  Okay.
• 2:05:54
  Yeah, no, I'm, I'm, I'm absolutely sold on the Mustang as a, as a therapeutic, as
• 2:05:58
  well as a riding horse, because there's a, there's a level of intelligence in
• 2:06:02
  there that is, it's not that all horses aren't, but Yes, you and I both know that
• 2:06:06
  there's, there's something extra there.
• 2:06:07
  yep.
• 2:06:07
  And them solving abilities and so on.
• 2:06:10
  Okay.
• 2:06:10
  Well, Lisa, it's been, it's been a treat.
• 2:06:13
  Thank you.
• 2:06:14
  , it's, it's okay.
• 2:06:15
  Thank you.
• 2:06:16
  It's been an inspiration.
• 2:06:17
  Those of you who don't know now that Equi who didn't know that EQU
• 2:06:21
  Film Festival exists, now you do.
• 2:06:23
  So get online or go to it.
• 2:06:26
  thank you for creating it, Lisa.
• 2:06:29
  Lisa Diersen: Thank you for being part of it and having me on your show,
• 2:06:32
  Rupert Isaacson: Rupert.
• 2:06:33
  Oh, well, I hope you'll come on again.
• 2:06:35
  And, I will, whenever
• 2:06:36
  Lisa Diersen: you need me.
• 2:06:37
  Rupert Isaacson: I'm, well, maybe what we could do, maybe what we
• 2:06:38
  should do is we should do a podcast from, that's what we should do.
• 2:06:41
  We should do a podcast That would be fun from from the film
• 2:06:43
  Lisa Diersen: festival.
• 2:06:44
  Yes.
• 2:06:44
  And then we can interview and then you could meet a whole bunch
• 2:06:46
  of interesting people who would be there in podcasts with them.
• 2:06:49
  That
• 2:06:50
  Rupert Isaacson: would be a very good thing.
• 2:06:51
  We could interview them right there.
• 2:06:52
  Okay.
• 2:06:52
  Yes.
• 2:06:53
  Let's talk about that right there.
• 2:06:54
  Something to look forward to.
• 2:06:56
  Yep.
• 2:06:56
  Alright.
• 2:06:57
  Lot fun.
• 2:06:57
  We'll talk.
• 2:06:58
  Lisa Diersen: Okay.
• 2:06:59
  Nice seeing you again.
• 2:07:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Thank you for joining us.
• 2:07:05
  We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.
• 2:07:07
  Join our website, new trails learning.com, to check out our online
• 2:07:12
  courses and live workshops in Horse Boy Method, movement Method, and Athena.
• 2:07:18
  These evidence-based programs have helped children, veterans, and people
• 2:07:22
  dealing with trauma around the world.
• 2:07:25
  We also offer a horse training program and self-care program
• 2:07:28
  for riders on long ride home.com.
• 2:07:32
  These include easy to do online courses and tutorials that
• 2:07:36
  bring you and your horse joy.
• 2:07:38
  For an overview of all shows and programs, go to rupert isaacson.com.
• 2:07:43
  See you on the next show.
• 2:07:45
  And please remember to press, subscribe and share.