Latest / Finding New Waters / A Deeper Look into Behavioral Health with Dr. Sheila Shilati

Transcript

A Deeper Look into Behavioral Health with Dr. Sheila Shilati · Finding New Waters

0:00
If the prognosis is good and we can potentially try just, you
0:03
know, sobriety and therapy and support and things like that,
0:07
that is a much easier thing to deal with I think, than the
0:10
other alternatives, right? As a parent, yeah, I mean, and I
0:14
think that's why it's so critical.
0:15
Graham and I were talking about this last week.
0:17
Going to a place like New Waters and getting this kind of
0:21
evaluation should actually be the first step that you take.
0:26
You know, it's like you go and you get your health assessment.
0:29
They take your draw every lab possible.
0:31
They take your break, they go look at your nutrition and you
0:34
know, you're blowing the little tube.
0:35
You're like, oh great, you know, my lungs work.
0:38
So it's Why are we not doing that?
1:06
Good afternoon. My name is Graham Durge and I'm
1:08
the Founder and CEO of New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, NC.
1:11
Welcome to our weekly podcast, Finding New Waters.
1:14
Our goal in creating Finding New Waters is to provide a resource
1:17
for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a
1:20
loved 1, struggling with substance use, or mental health.
1:23
When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most
1:25
people have no idea where to turn.
1:27
We hope to shed some light onto what is often the darkest hour
1:30
for many families. I'm joined here today by our
1:33
Executive Director, Justin McClendon and Dr. Sheila
1:36
Shalotti. Dr. Shalotti has been in the
1:38
field of behavioral health for more than 20 years.
1:40
She has served as an international ambassador on a
1:43
part and participant on 2 separate expeditions in the
1:45
Middle East and Africa, working directly with victims of natural
1:48
disasters and HIV and AIDS. She has guest lectured at
1:52
several universities and colleges, including California
1:54
State University, Pepperdine University, California Lutheran
1:58
University and Oxnard College. Sheila has served as a media
2:03
consultant for various outlets to discuss general trends in the
2:05
rehabilitative industry, and Sheila has served as Chief
2:09
operating Officer for more than 13 years at Seasons Recovery
2:13
Centers. She overseas all day-to-day
2:16
management including but not limited to standards of
2:18
practice, employee relations, licensing, organizational
2:22
compliance and corporate infrastructure.
2:24
She is highly regarded for her leadership, integrity and
2:27
cultivating a culture of inclusivity and equity.
2:30
Sheila received her BA from the University of California at
2:33
Santa Barbara in 2001 and her doctorate degree from the
2:35
Phillips Graduate Institute in 2009.
2:39
That's a very nice bio. Yes, you're so you're very well
2:43
qualified to to be on this podcast and and obviously to
2:48
discuss you know substance use and and kind of the work that we
2:52
do here on a daily basis. And you know, I would love to
2:56
just start off, you know, getting a little bit more
2:59
background and just kind of, you know, your personal story, how
3:01
you came into this work, what drove you to this work and and
3:05
just how you came to it. Well, I mean, my original
3:09
intention in life was to be a very successful writer in New
3:13
York City. So clearly that worked out.
3:16
Super. Well, I had a dream.
3:22
We make plans and God laughs at. Him.
3:25
Yeah. He's like, oh, what's your plan
3:26
for today? Let me see what I've got going
3:29
on. Right, right.
3:30
You know I. Was fortunate.
3:32
I mean, I think, I feel like at the end of the the day, this
3:35
work kind of really finds us right.
3:38
We're we have our own personal journeys.
3:41
We have our experiences that contribute to kind of our
3:45
passions or how we want to be of service.
3:47
Obviously at one point in my life I thought I was going to
3:50
save the world and made attempts to do so whatever that may have
3:55
looked like. But then I got realistic and in
3:57
terms of more pragmatic and what was going to be applicable and
4:01
and I think administration and entrepreneurship and just kind
4:06
of business was a was a natural fit.
4:10
I think I just really liked also telling people what to do.
4:13
So that's but on the flip side, I think, you know just the deep
4:19
fascination and depth of understanding, you know the the
4:23
human construction on an emotional and behavioral level
4:27
and the the recognition that we're all just really wounded
4:34
and still seeking a way to feel seen and heard.
4:37
At the core of all of everything that we go through right is to
4:40
just be a part of so kind of this this work.
4:45
You know I mean that's that that bio like I was like oh that's a
4:48
few years old. I mean I'm in my 30th year now
4:51
was seasons. What a privilege and beautiful
4:55
opportunity to be of service and cultivated that beautiful
5:00
organization and relationship with the the people and the
5:04
clients and the staff that are all there.
5:06
But it all kind of started as a way of just an entry point
5:09
through, you know, just working clinically with clients and then
5:13
kind of morphed into something that felt more developmental and
5:19
things that I can really contribute to on a more systemic
5:21
level. And then kind of what happens
5:23
from there and obviously relationships with with great
5:26
individuals that you know, I was just having this conversation,
5:31
you know, the connection we have as a community of providers.
5:35
I mean you know and I'll speak you know, candidly enough to
5:38
say, you know, New Waters has represented themselves
5:41
extraordinarily well with a very personal situation of mine.
5:46
And not only was I thoroughly impressed, which is hard to do
5:50
because I hold a pretty high standard, but just the comfort
5:53
and the ease at which when we really come together to
5:57
collaborate and to be of service to this really wounded and and
6:01
deeply you know, needing community, it's really a
6:06
beautiful gift. So my my route here was was
6:09
circuitous, but yet it's like when I came in, I didn't know
6:13
what I wanted to do. But now, as a as a mature adult,
6:19
adulting my way through life in many ways, I'm like, oh, I I
6:23
understand more of my purpose, of why I'm here now and how I
6:26
see that's. Great.
6:27
Yeah. Yeah.
6:29
And I think too that you know what you kind of just touched on
6:31
there that that what I was thinking of was yes, we have
6:35
such an incredible, it's an amazing industry right, because
6:38
it's a very intimate, very small industry in so many regards
6:42
where we all kind of know each other and and and like all the
6:46
kind of good providers and the good ethical programs are all
6:50
kind of work very closely together and kind of hand in
6:52
hand and refer patients and and all that And and it's really a
6:56
beautiful thing and it's just so it's kind of perplexing because
6:59
families have no idea how to access that right.
7:04
And it's so perplexing, like how and that's why we created this
7:07
podcast was one of the kind of core reasons is that we wanted
7:10
to create resources for people and get that information out
7:12
there, like what is an intervention?
7:14
What is, you know, what all this information that we take for
7:16
granted and we just know so intimately what to do is is, you
7:21
know, as I said, kind of people's worst hour, right.
7:24
And so it's, it's a complex issue and I don't know what the
7:27
answer is at this point, but hopefully, you know, just
7:29
getting content out there and having conversations like this
7:33
and destigmatizing things and, you know, just having those
7:37
conversations will help, you know.
7:38
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
7:40
No, it's just go ahead, go ahead.
7:43
No, I was just going to mention when you were saying that.
7:46
So we have one of our staff members that recently switched
7:50
positions and is now working in continued care department.
7:54
And it was just really an interesting observation.
7:57
So she's been doing that job for about a couple of weeks now.
7:59
So like very, very early in that process.
8:02
And she actually just said to me yesterday she was like, I had no
8:05
idea that just kind of talking about the treatment community in
8:09
general across the country, because she's just dove right in
8:12
and she's talking to facilities all over the place.
8:14
And she's like, I had no idea. As big as this community is, it
8:18
seems like everybody knows each other.
8:20
And I was like, yeah, it's kind of true.
8:22
Which is neat. Just neat.
8:24
All the good people know each other.
8:26
That's true. There you go, right there.
8:28
You go, there's obviously places that are not operating on
8:32
ethical grounds and those are typically the places that are
8:36
kind of like under the rafter or whatever the term is.
8:42
But yeah, I mean it's, it is very interesting how we all kind
8:46
of, you know, work very closely together and and yeah, and
8:49
however we can kind of, you know, create these resources for
8:51
people. It's just going to be so
8:53
beneficial moving forward. So now one of the things that we
8:57
kind of talked about when we were thinking about a topic of
8:59
discussion here and I love to talk about Seasons of Malibu
9:03
too. Maybe before we get into that
9:04
and just, you know, tell us a little bit about Seasons and
9:07
specifically what do you guys focus on?
9:10
What's your kind of niche, what's your perfect client?
9:12
And if you can just kind of tell us a little bit about the
9:14
program. Yeah, perfect client, a
9:18
motivated one, right. I mean I wouldn't say I've been,
9:24
I've been fairly fortunate. You know we're privately owned
9:27
organization. So it's afforded me an
9:30
extraordinary amount of flexibility and capacity to
9:34
attend to the clients needs in a variety of ways without kind of
9:39
having to go to the higher up. So what do you think or you know
9:42
the cost containment in the same way you think about it if a
9:44
venture capital firm owns the organization and just kind of
9:48
the the bureaucracy of all of that.
9:52
So you know with Seasons being there as long as I have, I've
9:58
I've got the great good fortune of a a high level staff
10:01
retention you know call it visionary leadership.
10:05
No, I mean it's really, which is not.
10:07
Hard which is not easy to do. I mean we're we're dealing with
10:10
this here and and there's so much turnover in this field
10:12
unfortunately because it is just it's a it's the burnout is so
10:16
high, it's high intensity, it's you know it really is a tough,
10:21
tough thing to do. So, yeah, I mean, I would love
10:24
to understand how you have such great retention as well.
10:28
You know I think it's a lot of there's.
10:31
I don't know if it's a a secret as much as it is just attending
10:35
to the people that are caring for the people coming in.
10:37
You know care for your your your people and I know that in a lot
10:43
of ways people appreciate that in financial compensation that
10:46
makes sense. But I think the the value I
10:49
think there's a lot of people that else also understand the
10:52
value of being able to shoot their supervisor in text and say
10:56
you know I just I need a mental health day.
10:59
I'm I'm feeling I'm feeling burnt out you know and they're
11:01
not being any consequences to that.
11:04
You know I feeling like you can come and talk to the CEO if you
11:10
need to problem solve. There's not this way I've I've
11:13
also learned the benefit of great boundaries and not being
11:15
as accessible. There's kind of this way that
11:18
that I have a responsibility to attend and pay attention, but
11:22
it's also in just the little things, you know, knowing the
11:25
names of all of your employees and and information about them
11:29
that it's relational. At the end of the day they feel
11:31
if your employees feel seen then they feel taken care of.
11:35
If they know that upper management is just taking the
11:38
time to ask them, you know, often times I'll bring people in
11:42
and I'll set them down in the office and go what would you
11:44
like to do? Where do you see yourself?
11:45
How can I help you achieve that goal?
11:49
And I'm not sure there's too many CEO OS that are willing to
11:53
kind of engage in that way and and really take a genuine
11:57
interest. I'm not sure.
11:59
You know, at the end of the day you're going to have some level
12:01
of turnover. It's the nature of some of these
12:03
entry level positions and people are figuring it out.
12:07
But I think that trickles down to the client experience, right.
12:10
And what people have come and what Seasons is kind of known
12:13
for is that level of caretaking and attention to and quality
12:19
control. And that's where I get, you
12:21
know, maybe my own control issues come up great.
12:23
This is a good purpose for them to be incorporated and utilize
12:29
because that representation matters.
12:31
It matters for the referrent, who's sending the individual or
12:34
or trying for them to decide where they want to go and
12:37
offering them, you know, appropriately 3 different
12:40
choices And you know, but it's different when I get on the line
12:44
and I have an accountability to them now, Now the client is
12:48
going, OK, we were on that call, you said, you know, so it kind
12:52
of takes away the pressure of the refer and having to feel
12:56
like, Oh my God, I'm on edge. Are they going to follow
12:58
through? Because then I just, you know,
13:00
the organization I take over, we have a very collaborative
13:04
engagement transparency. So it actually makes the process
13:09
pretty seamless and and listen, we have extraordinary care and
13:14
sophisticated treatment. But even when we don't bat 1000,
13:18
there's no questions as to why it didn't work and nobody's left
13:21
in the dark going, well, who didn't communicate this to me
13:24
and why did it then? I know about XY and Z.
13:27
So you know the we're we're 24 beds in Malibu, all luxury
13:34
homes. Four of them.
13:35
Three of them are licensed for primary substance use, dual
13:39
diagnosis and we do have a license that treats primary
13:42
mental health. So I think I always want to make
13:45
the distinction. People say they treat it, we're
13:47
actually licensed to treat it, have been since the 17.
13:51
It's a big difference, right? People, you know, your children
13:53
gets confused, but we have doctors that only treat licensed
13:59
well. And those are some of those
14:00
questions that people don't know to ask, right.
14:03
And that's, you know kind of the point of highlighting some of
14:05
those things are like what are the questions that we ask the
14:07
when we're calling these facilities, right.
14:09
So you know, you don't know what you don't know.
14:12
So that's that's an awesome point.
14:13
I love that. Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
14:16
Yeah. And it's just that we don't,
14:18
again, no offense against like interns trying to get their
14:20
hours, but when you're paying the kind of money you do to come
14:23
to Seasons, you want to see experts in their field, you
14:26
know, licensed professionals that have been doing this a long
14:29
time and. Correct me if I'm not wrong, all
14:32
of your therapists are are are doctorate level.
14:36
Yeah, all of them. Yeah.
14:38
Which? Is pretty unique.
14:40
There's not a lot of programs that have their whole clinical
14:42
team as doctorate level candidates.
14:44
So that's that's huge. Thank you.
14:46
And again it's it's if we've invested it's been in the, you
14:50
know you get those feedback forms at the end that gives you
14:53
know like we always, I'm always proud to say we get two of the
14:57
highest ratings in terms of those feedback surveys.
14:59
One of them being they got what they expected to get in the
15:02
clinical was top notch you know and the second point is yeah
15:06
it's it's I do have a lot of pride around it and the second
15:10
one being you know up to 95% of people would refer a friend or a
15:14
loved one back you know to come and receive services.
15:18
So it's it's it's something that I think we genuinely I go listen
15:23
if we nailed it on those things fantastic.
15:25
You know you didn't on Tuesday, no worries.
15:28
I can deal with that. That's.
15:31
Not as important. The five quilted standard that
15:34
you were hoping, OK, you know, these are manageable.
15:39
So it's just everybody's different.
15:40
But I treat adults, that's kind of my mentality.
15:43
I treat people that are highly motivated.
15:45
I really assess for the fit in the milieu.
15:49
I don't have to take everybody. It's a great position to be in.
15:53
We've earned it. You know, we've yeah, that's
15:55
great to get here and we feel really, really good.
15:58
So we stay in our lane, we do good work, we work with our
16:01
collaborators and just kind of keep it clean.
16:04
Well, I actually was just out there visiting your program last
16:08
week. So I saw it in person live and
16:10
it is Absolutely Fabulous. So you know we definitely highly
16:14
recommend it to to really anybody who needs the services
16:18
and you know kind of the change pace here a little bit.
16:21
One of the things that we kind of talked about last week and
16:23
and leading up to this was you know the increase in cannabis,
16:28
cannabis induced psychosis, right.
16:31
And we've been seeing a whole lot of that.
16:33
I know, Justin, you know you can speak to that extensively, but
16:37
let's talk a little bit about, you know just the increase in
16:40
that the Delta 8, the, you know, all these synthetic drugs that
16:43
are coming online and and obviously being sold in gas
16:46
stations everywhere. But how's your experience been
16:50
out there in California and what are you guys seeing out there?
16:53
Probably similar to yours. I'd love to hear, hear your
16:57
experience as well. It's been, you know, largely
17:01
initially it was kind of anecdotal and and head
17:04
scratching where we would get these cases of perfectly healthy
17:09
generally mostly leaning towards men, but we get some women that
17:14
would have either an acute psychotic episode or you know,
17:19
instances of more chronic psychosis.
17:21
But you didn't have this kind of genesis of of you know kind of
17:27
correlation of how you can route where it came from per SE.
17:31
You know so you're looking at it diagnostically.
17:34
You're trying to kind of rule out OK is it is where you
17:38
prodromal and did this come on do you have.
17:40
But they don't maybe they don't have a significant family
17:42
history. It just didn't quite add up.
17:44
But the one thing that the through line that was consistent
17:47
was daily cannabis use starting from a fairly young age.
17:52
You know or maybe it was intermittent but then it peaked
17:55
up at like 18 to like 22 whatever.
17:58
There's there's this way in which then it turns into this
18:04
complete departure from like normative functioning and it's
18:08
just everyone, the family system, the client it's it looks
18:13
like a true psychotic rake. So we would get clients that you
18:18
know, we're on the top of like bridges ready to jump in the
18:23
middle of a psychotic rake or they were taken down by the
18:25
police because you know, they were running naked in the
18:29
streets and you know and and the one and.
18:32
Most of these cases, most of these cases are young adults
18:36
primarily. Primarily, yeah, yeah.
18:41
Yeah. I would say you know we treat
18:43
solely 18 and older, but you know I imagine you hear it even
18:47
more in adolescence. But for us it's like that that
18:51
22/26/27 and and and now when I kind of hear the symptoms of of
18:58
the presentation and we'll get the kind of conceptualization,
19:02
I'm like did they smoke, did they smoke pot every day they're
19:04
like, OK, so it's, it's been this kind of really terrifying
19:12
an epidemic that I think is starting to really take shape.
19:16
And we as providers, I think we're having more and more
19:19
discussions. The research is starting to give
19:22
us more information. There's no argument against the
19:28
potential and the active piece of an acute psychotic episode
19:34
due to cannabis intoxication. I think the professionals all
19:37
agree that is very real that happens.
19:41
It's just the duration at which that occurs is typically while
19:45
it's active in your body and and doing its its thing, the more
19:51
kind of evidence that that is leaning towards.
19:56
And again, there's a ton of confounding variables why we
19:58
have chronic psychosis. You know, chronic thought
20:03
disorders, any of those things. So you kind of are peeling it
20:06
up. But safe to say that daily
20:09
cannabis use at a young age can certainly exacerbate the
20:14
potential for somebody to kind of activate those symptoms
20:19
within the changing of the brain structure.
20:21
And then now you've got your 25 year old who will have to be on,
20:26
you know, mood stabilizers for the rest of their life.
20:29
That's 100%. It's scary.
20:32
And you know, I had a little experience with this with my
20:34
nephew who we put into a treatment program when he was
20:37
about 16. He went to a wilderness program
20:39
at Utah and he had a great experience and ended up staying
20:43
out there for a year and finishing school out there.
20:45
And it and it really was a was a great thing.
20:47
But when I, my brother, you know, called me and they were
20:50
having an issue and trying to kind of figure out, luckily he
20:53
had me to call to say what do we do here?
20:55
And I was able to kind of put him in touch with the
20:57
appropriate people and got him in touch with an educational
21:00
consultant because I was just too close to the case.
21:02
Right. And and I needed somebody else
21:04
to step in and really manage it. And and you know, the the piece
21:09
with what I told my brother was, you know, listen, he's 16 years
21:12
old. The reality that he's going to
21:13
be sober for the rest of his life is very unlikely, right?
21:16
But we can plant the seed at this point and we can start to
21:19
do some work. And if we can even get him from
21:20
like 16 to 18 or 19 without smoking weed every day, like
21:25
that's a big win, right? So, you know, he's now in
21:29
college at the University of Denver and and he's doing really
21:32
well. And he's not, you know, sober
21:35
quote, UN quote, but he's he's handling it and and maybe he
21:37
wasn't an addict, right. And maybe he, you know, he's
21:40
just spiraling out at some point and and just never Crest cross
21:43
that threshold at that point. And we were able to kind of
21:45
catch it soon enough. Time will tell.
21:48
But even if that happens, like we know what to do and he knows
21:51
what to do, right? He's been through this.
21:53
He has so much self-awareness, he's gotten so much education
21:56
around it. So he he kind of knows what to
21:58
do in that scenario. But, you know, I do think that
22:01
it in and with like, you know, legalization of cannabis out in
22:04
California, I just wonder if you even see if you saw any
22:07
correlation there when they legalized weed and a spike in
22:10
this, you know, psychosis or anything like that.
22:13
But you know, the thing that even concerns me more is is, you
22:17
know, the Delta 8 and all the synthetic, you know, substances
22:19
that are being sold and the THC A and the, you know, God knows
22:22
what what new strain or you know, chemical they've created.
22:27
So, you know, I feel like that is really the stuff, you know,
22:30
being here in North Carolina where kids can't get weed very
22:33
easily, you know, or legally and they're just going to buy in
22:37
this Delta 8 stuff and it's lighting them on fire, yeah.
22:39
And that's, you know, I, I was thinking the same thing about
22:42
the legalization in California and how, you know maybe that
22:46
what your observations are around that Doctor Shalotti.
22:48
But here to your point, Graham, so we see the same thing, you
22:52
know, especially in our assessment track.
22:54
I mean we do see individuals coming in to the detox kind of
22:57
part of our program that are showing a similar presentation,
23:00
but we have seen a lot of it in the assessment track.
23:03
It's similar to your point, Dr. Shalotti, is that, you know, the
23:06
parents, whoever else is involved, you know, they're
23:10
scratching their heads, right? They're like, hey, this is going
23:12
on. There's been the psychotic
23:14
episode, there's been hospitalization, there's been a
23:16
suicide attempt. There's no history of this.
23:18
There's the, you know, the THC use.
23:21
And we've just got the same, same as you said.
23:23
I mean, we've gotten to the point where it's like,
23:25
immediately you're like, we know exactly what's going on here.
23:27
We've seen this a number of times already, but here I mean
23:31
we do have some people, a lot of people that come in from outside
23:33
of the state for that assessment program, but a lot of them are
23:36
within North Carolina where it's not legal yet.
23:39
So it's these delta derivatives and things like that.
23:44
But yeah, that's. So anyways, long way to get to
23:46
that same question is. So I wonder what your
23:48
observations have been since the legalization in California,
23:52
because I would imagine that is totally different.
23:55
Well, yeah. And I think, remember everybody
23:58
had their medical card before it got.
24:00
Sure. Right.
24:00
Sure. It's been a while, yeah.
24:02
Once in a while 20. Years.
24:04
At least. Yeah.
24:06
So kind of the introduction of the, yeah, the legalization of
24:10
cannabis, you know, is something we've been attempted to like
24:16
look at and and listen, I'm, you know, I think the reality is
24:22
every the medicinal purposes, the application of the uses of,
24:27
you know, when under appropriate measures and oversight has
24:31
tremendous impacts and effects. We know that you can't argue
24:34
with the literature that supports this.
24:36
So, you know, I want to be careful not to create this kind
24:39
of, you know, idea that my opinion on any of this isn't
24:44
started. I think we're just kind of
24:45
speaking to a reality as a parent.
24:47
We're all parents. This is something we have to
24:50
think about. And I think we kind of have this
24:53
social, we've kind of taken a social exhale that like, OK,
24:57
cannabis is OK, it's all right. Like my kids doing, it's not the
25:01
worst thing they can be doing, you know, unless they have.
25:04
An underlying mental health issue.
25:06
Right. Right.
25:07
Which you don't know. You know your next phone until
25:10
20, right? Yeah.
25:12
Right. Yeah, yeah.
25:14
Man, do you ever see something that's like, oh, I have, I have
25:18
no issue at all. Yeah, seriously.
25:21
Some spectrum of like 100% you you spend enough time on social
25:26
media, you have some sort of like generalized anxiety
25:28
disorder. Absolutely.
25:33
You know, so yes, the severity, the prodromal effects, the
25:38
attention to parent attitudes. A lot of parents smoke with
25:43
their kids, you know. So listen, I'm, I'm not the, I'm
25:48
the bearer of fun, not the take away or of fun.
25:51
But at the same time, I think there needs to be such a deep
25:54
sense of understanding and education that you're 16, you're
25:58
18, you're 20 year old, you're 22 year old.
26:00
You know, the we all know the developing brain works, you
26:04
know, is still working towards finishing up by 2528, maybe a
26:11
little bit later for males because it's OK you guys are a
26:14
little slower. Knew that was coming.
26:23
But we're it's it's it's it's scary like I really do mean to
26:29
insert some of that kind of of reality and kind of the fear and
26:35
and and being more vigilant about teenagers really kind of
26:40
getting into this and what this means and it and it's funny too.
26:44
You know you think about it in this way because just because we
26:46
can't see what's going on with the brain and you know but if
26:49
like we smoke cannabis and it gave you like acne, right.
26:53
Right. Right.
26:55
Like most of the time, you know, people be like, oh, I don't
26:58
really, you know, anything specific or oh, you'd get these
27:01
bumps on your arms or what it's like if we could see it.
27:04
You're like, that's not really for me.
27:06
You know, like if we were talking about you know, somebody
27:11
having cancer and going OK, here's the thing that's going to
27:15
save you. You know and actually it's just
27:19
I think our, our the way we kind of the lens in which we think
27:22
about things and and normalize it is.
27:26
Very distorted, distorted. You know, that's the society,
27:30
everything's distorted. So yes, find your path.
27:35
That's the. Truth.
27:37
Yeah. Oh my.
27:38
Gosh, I'm curious. What you guys are seeing at the
27:41
detox there and especially in your evaluations because you
27:44
guys have you know such resources and accessibility to
27:50
to kind of you know what is, what kind of through lines are
27:53
you guys coming up with? Well, especially when it comes
27:56
to the the, the cannabis topic specifically.
27:59
I mean we have had a lot of luck with you know this particular
28:02
kind of like this particular client that we're talking about,
28:07
right. You know, young adult as you
28:09
mentioned a lot of times male actually I would struggle to
28:13
think of a of a time where it was a female right now right off
28:16
the top of my head. But you know that that has a
28:20
similar presentation and you know, so we can, we can get a
28:25
lot of history, we can understand about what's going on
28:27
with the substance use, where it came from, if there's any
28:29
causation there and things like that.
28:30
But as you mentioned Doctor Shalal, I think like the effects
28:35
and the presentation that we're seeing with that person is very
28:38
neurological in nature. We've seen a lot of success just
28:42
in in simply the person you know discontinuing the use and being
28:48
able to remain sober and just kind of the natural healing
28:52
process that can take place there.
28:54
We've seen a lot of of young adult males be able to you know
28:57
stabilize here, get some good data, but tracking them also
29:01
over that next you know three months, six months period to see
29:05
kind of what's going on and have seen a ton of success in them
29:08
being able to clear and really not to have any kind of
29:11
recurrence of any of those psychotic symptoms or anything
29:14
like that. But then unfortunately there are
29:17
sometimes, as you alluded to to where maybe the damage is, is
29:21
just it's a little bit more permanent, right.
29:23
And there's going to be some pharmacological intervention
29:25
that's needed in order to kind of stabilize.
29:28
And then unfortunately not seeing as much of that clearing
29:31
and it becomes a pretty obvious situation to where they're going
29:34
to need some type of medication for the foreseeable future in
29:37
order to remain stable. But yeah, it is very, it's very
29:42
interesting how you know the, the occurrence of what's going
29:47
on is very neurological in nature.
29:50
You know as to where I think not to say that it's so drastically
29:53
different from other substances. I mean you know, everybody comes
29:57
about that however they come about it, right, whether there's
29:59
trauma, there's other things that's experimental used.
30:02
I mean like however they got there, they got there.
30:04
So some of that part is the same, but how it affects them
30:08
and the severity of the the the symptoms and things like that is
30:11
very, very brain based, you know?
30:14
Yeah. Yeah.
30:15
I mean I think if you, you take into consideration like if
30:19
someone comes in there diabetic and they go, OK, yeah, no,
30:21
you're susceptible to this, this and this.
30:24
You know they give information. I go, oh gosh, if I.
30:27
But when we're not given that information, we don't have that
30:30
and you're just kind of you know, filling your brain with
30:33
whatever substance. Yeah, I mean, we all, we all get
30:36
this and understand this. And the more that we listen,
30:41
it's all about education at the end of the day.
30:43
You know, listen systemically, we've seen a greater incidence
30:47
of people just talking about their mental health and exposing
30:50
more to mental health and giving opportunities for us to
30:54
normalize mental health. You know, I mean, I can't even
30:57
go to my kids school now without every parent thinking about who
31:00
their therapist is. You know, we're just like, yeah,
31:04
Are they open? Do they have an opening?
31:09
So it's it's. Nice to kind of like work
31:12
towards normalizing that and that experience and it not being
31:16
like in our in our community or in recovery.
31:19
We're just like, you know, I think, I think we take for
31:21
granted that we're so accustomed to these conversations that you
31:24
forget the rest of. The world often.
31:26
And operates and we're and and we're in a a beautiful position
31:32
to continue and I love that you guys are doing this to just
31:34
educate and give access to because you know it's important
31:39
information and we're going to have our own ideas.
31:43
It is. And I think, I don't know, just
31:45
came out, came out for me when you were saying that, the
31:47
education piece, I think it's also just really refreshing a
31:50
lot of the times. Again, unfortunately, sometimes
31:53
there's more of a permanent situation that's resulted from
31:55
this. But a lot of times, you know,
31:57
when the families come in and they again, they're scratching
31:59
their heads, they don't know what's going on.
32:01
There's been this event for us to be able to do the assessment
32:05
and sit back and say, like, hey guys, this is very likely caused
32:10
by the cannabis that you're using, right?
32:13
It at least gives them like a target, something to focus on.
32:16
And it's like, OK, like, you know, my son doesn't have, you
32:19
know, schizophrenia, right? Or there's not some other kind
32:22
of organic condition that is going to be kind of, you know,
32:25
life altering for him and also for our family system.
32:28
But it's like, OK, like this is the thing, right?
32:31
So it's almost like a relief, I think in some ways, right?
32:35
They're like, OK, well, if if the prognosis is good and we can
32:39
potentially try just, you know, sobriety and therapy and support
32:42
and things like that, that is a much easier thing to deal with.
32:47
I think that, yeah, alternatives, right?
32:49
As a parent, yeah, I mean, and I think that's quite so critical.
32:52
Graham and I were talking about this last week.
32:54
Going to a place like New Waters and getting this kind of
32:57
evaluation should actually be the first step that you take
33:01
great consideration. You know, it's like you go and
33:04
you get your health assessment, they take your draw every lab
33:07
possible. They take your great, they go
33:09
look at your nutrition. You know, you blow in the little
33:12
tube, you're like, oh great, you know, my lungs were so it's why
33:17
are we not doing that on a mental 100?
33:19
Percent, you just have to go to 1.
33:21
Targeted thing and you're like this is it.
33:23
It's just this right here. We can, yeah.
33:26
This is it and we we know these guys do pretty good work so
33:28
we're it's not even like you know we're going to send to this
33:31
program because of this therapist specializes in this
33:34
you know will work well with this client right.
33:36
And I think that's where we need to get really granular, but
33:39
you're 100% of the money, I. Yeah.
33:42
No. And it's, it's just, it's so
33:45
funny that it's true and obviously we are biased and we
33:48
believe that as well, right. We should do good assessment
33:50
before there's recommendation and treatment, right.
33:53
But it's just interesting that our industry doesn't handle it
33:57
that way. But if you go back to like the
33:59
Graduate School days, right, Doctor Shalotti, like that's
34:02
what we were taught is that you assess before you do anything
34:05
else. But unfortunately in our
34:07
industry like we just don't really do that.
34:10
Well, we're trying to change that.
34:11
We're trying. To change it, that's right.
34:14
Yeah. So I would love to know.
34:17
So remind me again how many kids you have.
34:21
Two. Two.
34:21
That's right. Boy.
34:22
Girl. That's right.
34:23
You had two and and you were done where I had three girls and
34:27
we're still trying for a boy so not really.
34:31
But anyway, I just wanted to know, like, have you put some
34:36
thought into like how you're going to into navigate that with
34:40
your kids? You know, it's I I think about
34:43
that all the time. I don't have an answer really at
34:44
this point because my kids are still, you know, 9-8 and five.
34:47
But like, yeah, at some point probably in the near future,
34:50
we're going to start having those conversations about
34:52
cannabis and about, you know, what their friends are doing and
34:55
all this stuff. You know, I having three
34:57
daughters. You know, my like biggest fear
34:59
is obviously like in eating disorder issue or anything like
35:02
that. And you know, because that just
35:04
to me is just so complex and it's, you know, it's substances,
35:07
you know, we can stop using substances, but you got to eat,
35:10
right. So such a different thing
35:12
animal. But you know, I just would love
35:14
to hear kind of what your thoughts are around that and how
35:16
to kind of have those early conversations with kids.
35:19
Yeah, I mean, listen, I get as far my kids are like 6 and
35:24
almost three. So we've got some.
35:27
So my stress is really related to making sure like they get
35:30
dressed in the morning and timing tantrum necessity to
35:36
negotiate. It's a constant yeah.
35:41
So I I but I the problem oh gosh, you know the the I was
35:46
about to curse and I stopped myself.
35:47
I'm so proud. It's cursed, it's there's free
35:50
zone. The hardest part I think about
35:55
us having the knowledge that we do is just that I think we're
35:59
super sensitive and hypersensitive to the impacts
36:04
and having the awareness around environmental factors,
36:07
interactions, you know, school based interactions, romantic
36:11
interactions, what they're exposed to on television, their
36:15
processes and ideologies around you know, who they want to be
36:19
and narrative you know on and on and on so and and to recognize
36:23
kind of how that forms and shapes their imprinting.
36:27
That then generates the like narrative of you know, good
36:32
enough, not good enough value. You know, it's just we can kind
36:36
of compartmentalize each one of these and have an hour long
36:39
discussion on it. So I think, you know one of the
36:43
the benefits and have being in a city that I think is more
36:51
progressive than most when it comes to social emotional
36:54
considerations. And it's school systems that
36:57
think about it that way, is that they're already learning tools
37:01
to exercise that muscle in an effective way and it's being
37:05
endorsed by the school system, it's being endorsed by the
37:09
family system. I mean we're all like kids of
37:12
baby boomers. So we have lots of stories to
37:14
tell about you know managing our parents expectations and lack of
37:20
oversight and you know boundaries.
37:23
What boundaries. You know, you see the, you see
37:26
the, you just sweep it under the.
37:28
Rug we're we're not going to talk about that.
37:29
That's uncomfortable you. Know what?
37:32
What are these feelings? You know, what are these
37:35
emotions? And so I'm always I'm, I even
37:39
find myself struck sometimes too.
37:41
And I'm like recognizing how well my daughter might be
37:45
discussing like a feeling or an experience where she said to me
37:48
the other day, she goes, well, Mama, like that's my thinking.
37:52
And I get to change my mind if I want to.
37:55
And I was like, but you're. Like, whoa, you are.
37:58
Correct. Yes.
38:00
Yes you do. But still, do as I tell you to,
38:02
you know right? Right.
38:04
Totally. Yeah.
38:05
Now it's go ahead. No, you go, you go, you.
38:08
I will tell you off. Yeah.
38:09
Yeah. It's the but it is just that
38:11
we're we're developing the the generation generations behind
38:17
ours are developing better tools than we had to talk about those
38:21
things. Absolutely.
38:23
That translates. Yeah, yeah.
38:26
And I think too, like at least in my house, you know, my wife
38:29
and I are both in recovery. So they've they've never been in
38:32
a house with substances, alcohol, like there's no booze
38:34
in our house and you know with friends come over and I'm fine
38:37
with having alcohol in the house and having friends drink and all
38:39
that stuff, but but for the most part they're just not around it.
38:43
It's not a thing. They don't even know what it
38:44
really is, you know. So I think that like growing up
38:48
in that environment probably will have some sort of a shift
38:52
for them too. And you know, just not kind of
38:55
where where I grew up, it was, you know, cocktail every
38:58
evening. That's what you did.
38:59
You know at the end of the day you had your cheese and crackers
39:01
and your Scotch on the rocks and you know that was how you
39:04
handled life. So the.
39:06
Other thing, the other thing too is, and I think about this a
39:09
lot, because I mean, I don't know about you Doctor Salati,
39:12
but I think for me and Graham in anyway, we take a little bit of
39:14
work home with us from time to time.
39:17
But I think the, you know, they wind up hearing the phone calls
39:21
and the this and then that. So there's also this like a,
39:23
this layer of exposure to like you know, what the, the dangers
39:29
or the OR the downsides of using, you know, alcohol and
39:31
other substances can look like, right.
39:33
So I think that I hope anyway knock on wood somewhere that
39:36
that's can also add some value for them, right?
39:39
100% and listen, if there's ever a problem, we know what to do.
39:43
Is that the benefit? Right.
39:45
You know, I think that's that's the that's the gift of doing
39:48
what we do or having the resources or knowing that, you
39:52
know, it's just listen, it's just like your relative or your
39:55
friend being an MD, right. I don't know.
39:57
Or being. I don't hesitate to get their
39:59
free feedback. Absolutely.
40:03
Yeah man. So yeah, or also I'll literally
40:08
send pictures. I'll be like, what is this what
40:10
you know, my friend? I love it.
40:14
Well, it's better than Web MD, that's, that's for sure, yeah.
40:18
Absolutely speaking takes away the hypochondriasis.
40:21
There you go. Well.
40:22
I mean this has been a great conversation and I really,
40:26
really appreciate you coming on and just sharing us a a little
40:29
bit about your program and and your heart and you know all this
40:33
it's always so nice connecting with you and and collaborating
40:36
on cases and all of that. So why don't we can you just
40:38
share with people where everybody could find you maybe
40:40
your website and and possibly like a social media or
40:43
something? Yeah, you know, I'm the First
40:48
off, I have zero social media. So you know, good for you
40:51
excuse. Yeah, I don't even have a
40:52
LinkedIn, which I get yelled at often.
40:56
I know this is just how I just this is how Incognito don't.
41:00
Worry we'll we'll get you. We'll get you up to speed.
41:02
I'll. I'll come out there.
41:03
We'll sit down. I.
41:04
Know right? You'll be like, listen, I
41:07
checked on my phone. I'll give you this quick tidbit
41:09
and I'll give you the website butitsseasonsmalibu.com
41:12
seasonsmalibu.com and that will have all the information.
41:16
But I don't ever check the stats on how many times you pick up
41:19
your phone in a day. It's terrifying.
41:23
It's very I. Didn't know there was that stat
41:26
there. It is.
41:26
You'll see that stuff. Let me spend.
41:28
On which app? How much?
41:30
Basically it's like how much time you waste.
41:34
Wow. OK, I'm gonna look at that.
41:35
My account. I am not gonna look at that 100.
41:38
Was like 140 in one day of like. Yeah, we'll.
41:44
We'll start having we'll we'll just compare and then send each
41:47
other screenshots out of how dysfunctional we are.
41:52
It's like the new. Technology circle not doing well
41:56
today. 6000 steps and I pick up my phone 250 times.
42:04
Not a productive day. So it's so fun talking to you,
42:08
Doctor Slati, Yes. Thank you, ma'am.
42:10
And we'll we'll see you soon and seasons malibu.com.
42:15
If you guys want any information on Seasons and always you can
42:18
reach out to us at newwatersrecovery.com.
42:21
Thank you all. Have a great day.