Latest / The You Project / #1671 Is Your Car Spying On You? - David Gillespie

Transcript

#1671 Is Your Car Spying On You? - David Gillespie · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I get a team. Welcome to the Bloody You Project.
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: David Gillespie. Tiffany and Koku's still as zen as fuck.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: She just got back from India. She trained today in
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the gym. It was like having the Dalai Lama on
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the bench press. It was just so bloody. It was
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: just so calm. Everyone was just swamming around, no aggression.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Probably not the right analogy the Dealai Lama. But are
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: you still floating on cloud nine?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I am?
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I am, And every time I'm in the car, I'm
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: ringing people to tell him I love them.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: It's so wow.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Have you hunger Lesbo and told him yet?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Michael? Fuck?
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I haven't got Michael either, so yes, I'd tell you what.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: There must be a long list.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Bloody rubbish. You got to hug at the gym.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I did get a hug at the gym. I'm like,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: what's happening? Are you? Have you got a terminal disease?
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: What is wrong? Are you unwell? Tiff doesn't tifts a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: little bit like my dad. She doesn't just hand out hugs, right,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, if you and I ever meet
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: in person, there will be no hugging. There's zero chance
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: of I might just wrap you up in my big
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: strong arms and make you hug me. I might just
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: spoon you from behind without your consent.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Oh dear, that sounds awful.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Big spoon, little spoon, day, little spoon again. Craig, how
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: are you, mate?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Good. I don't know what earth we're going to
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: talk about today. I hope you've got some ideas well.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I know exactly what we're going to talk about because
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: you put up a very interesting article and it's something
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: quite different for us on the show, and that is
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: you were talking about technology and cars. I'm going to
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: really look at what you put up today, if you'll
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: find this interesting. I found this interesting, and also I
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me, and I've been worried. Not massive.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I don't fucking lose sleep over it, but I've been
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: thinking about this stuff for a while. And so the
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: title of Dave's article that he put up Dave's article
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: is Hey, Siri, am I being spied on the car?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: That knows too much? I just want to read the
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: first paragraph because I love it, or the first sentence
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: or two. Henry Ford would be horrified his model T
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: once a symbol of freedom has morphed into a rolling
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: surveillance device, tracking our every mood and move, and EA's
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: dropping on our conversations. Turn up the airk on Jeeves,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: you say in the car like a dutiful servant, obligeres
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: take me to my favorite bar, you demand, and the
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: car with the wisdom of a pub quiz champion who's
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: been rifling through your bins blots the quickest route or
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: route depending on how you go with that word. It's
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: all it is happening, isn't it, mister Gillespie.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean it started with the things they
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: in our houses and tell us they're there to help us.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: You know, the you know, the Alexa or whatever they're called.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: You know, the things you can talk to and the
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: little Google devices. And it's always amazed me that people
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: are happy putting those things in their house because, by definition,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: by design, they're there for you. They're listening to everything
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: that happens in your house. And honestly, just like one
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: of the people that commented on the article, I've had
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: people say to me, I know it doesn't listen all
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: the time. It only listens when I say hey Google
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: or hey Cereal, or whatever it is. Well, that's rubbish.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: How can it possibly do that. It has to be
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: listening all the time, or else it wouldn't know that
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: you'd said that. And if it's listening all the time,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: what is it doing with the data that it's collecting.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not at all reassured that there's any kind of
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: privacy for the data that's being collected. You know, as
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I said that in that piece, you know they give
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: you a privacy agreement that's ten thousand words of legal speak.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: You know that reads like kling on. It's it's really
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: difficult to be able to stand their hand on heart
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: and say, I know what is happening with what it
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: is recording? And most people would say, what do you
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: mean it's recording? Well, of course it's recording. It's got
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: to learn your voice, it's got to understand what you're saying,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: and of course it's recording. And there's no assurances as
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: far as I can tell, that any of that is private.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: And when you transfer that into a car where now
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: in a home it might be a little bit more obvious.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Right in a home for those who think about it
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: a bit. Obviously it's a recording device. But in a car,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: you might not think that anything is recording you, even
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: though a lot of things are voice activated in modern cars.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: This study of choices that came out today, which is
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: what prompted me to write that article, to me, I
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: thought was pretty shocking stuff. I mean, not only are
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: they recording your voice and passing it on to third
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: parties to train ais whatever that means, you know, and
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: who are these third parties and where are they located?
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: You know, when Choice sent requests for that kind of
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: information to the car companies, they've got nada. But then
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: you look at say something like Tesla, and it's not
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: just recording your voice, it's recording video. This thing is
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: monitoring you, recording video and sending it back to base.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Hang on, So it's recording video of you in the car.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Oh that makes it think twice about everything you've done.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: In a car, doesn't it. Hell, I'm very worried about
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: something she's been doing.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I tell you what, I'm glad. I'm glad they didn't
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: put them in Ford Escorts in the eighties. I would
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: have been fart.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I would have been stuffed if they had them in
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the Gemini, I tell you. But do you know what.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. So I bought a car about three months
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: ago now, and nah, no, it's not a it's not
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: a fancy car. Right, it's not a fancy car. It's
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: just a regular car. But they when I bought it,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: there's this when you start it, it says, do you
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: want to install this thing that gives you all of
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: this other shit that goes directly to I don't know,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: hunni HQ order. It's just a high UNDI what is it? No, bloody,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: It'll come to me at a moment anyway, A wagon thing, right,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I should know the name of it, Santa Fe.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: So, but it's got this thing that you plug into
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: that gives you all of these other things. But you've
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: got to sign up for this thing and consent for
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: this thing. And I said to the guy, but what
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: what is that? It just gives you better this and
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: better that and access to that. Like, I don't know, though,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: what am I consenting to?
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I know, we've all got them. I'm like, yeah, cool, yeah, And.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So you should read that the study that Choice put
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: out because he and I and Kia are two of
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: the worst offenders. So they're both owned they're both owned
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: by the same company, and they could not provide any
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: guarantees about what was going on with the data Dolle collecting.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: And they were collecting a lot of data. So it's
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: not just your voice, and it's not just vision, which
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: to me is scary enough. It's also data about how
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: you're driving. So it's data about whether you're speeding, it's
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: data about how you accelerate, how you break. All that
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff is being transmitted continuously. So it isn't
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: a big lead to think that we aren't too far
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: away from the point where the police don't need to
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: do anything other than get a warrant against the car
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: company to find out whether you've been speeding where your
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: car could be bringing charges against you in traffic court.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: So it's that kind of thing that is fair enough
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: if you know about it. But as you just described,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: how do you know about it? You asked the question,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: which is probably one step more than most people do,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: and you didn't get an answer.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: No. It was all very vague. I don't think they
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: were trying to be evasive. I don't think they knew. No,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I don't think they actually truly know. I mean, I
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: know this is digressing. We'll come back to cars. But
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the other morning, I had a meeting with some friends
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: of mine and we're talking about Creatine, which is just
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: a supplement. You know, Jan and Ien Tiff, the lovely
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: old couple, old and young, in their mid eighties and
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: fucking amazing. Anyway, I was talking to them about Creatine.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I got home and then I start getting all these
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: ads for Creatine on my phone. And not only that,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I said to them, well, I'm sponsored by Max's, so
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I use Max's Creatine, right, and you know, so whatever, right,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: so that I know that that works and this is
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: not a paid advertisement, right, but it works for me,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: so because they said anyway, then I started getting ads
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: for Max's Creatine. I didn't look it up. I didn't
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: do a search. I was just talking about it and
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: my phone was in proximity, and then it started sending
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: me all these ads. How bloody weird is that?
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: It's not weird at all. And this is coming back
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: to the point we started from, which is these devices
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: are listening all the time because they have to because
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: if you suddenly inserted into that conversation, Hey Google or
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: hey Siri, it would have to respond to you. So
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: it's got to be listening to every word you say,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: and they do not guarantee at all that they A
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: aren't recording and b aren't selling that data. And the
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: example you're giving proves it. They are definitely recording it,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: and they are definitely selling it. And who are they
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: selling it to. They're selling it into ad networks that
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: present those pages to you. And so in the first
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: few microseconds of you opening a web page, it's gone
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: trolling through the ad network and the ad marketplace that
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: your conversation has been sold to and finding you relevant ads.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, what about the idea that you know with
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: some of these very very high tech cars, like even
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: some of the BYD, which is the Japanese the Chinese
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: competitor to Tesla, which some of the Chinese cars that
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: are coming out now. I know ten years ago Chinese
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: cars in Australia were fucking terrible build quality and blah
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: blah blah, but the ones coming out now are very
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: very close to you know, Japanese production and build quality
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and all of that, if not the same. So BYD
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: have this fully electric competitor to the Tesla Model three
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: and so on. But these are essentially computers with wheels,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: like they're fully electric. You can. Tesla have this thing
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: where they can increase the power in your car with
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: an update, Like you don't have to take it. You
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: don't have to take it to a mechanic and get
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: a blower or a fucking a turbo put on it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Like they literally change. I don't understand this, but they
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: do some kind of diagnostic adjustment or something, and now
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: your car puts out more power. Like what about the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: remote maybe not remote possibility that one day I'm driving
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: my computer on wheels and it hijacks the car.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or it takes you to the creatine store. It's
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: heard you having a conversation. You might have mentioned that
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: you're running low on your favorite creatine and on your
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: way home, it decides to take a little detour and
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: pop your into grab some huh.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: So is there a is there an antidote? Is there
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: a strategy? Is there something that we should start to
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Even the Alexa thing, I hadn't I'd thought about that,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: but not in that detail. Tift, you have one of them.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: I do have an Alexa, was not plugged in. I've
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: got a Google Home though.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: What do you use that? Like, how do you use that.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: To set my alarm so I don't have to look
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: at the phone, and to control the bedroom lamp so
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: that I don't have to get out of bed and
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: turn it off.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just audio. The only little price you're
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: paying for that is everything you do being recorded by
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: a world supercomputer.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Not much happening in my bedroom, David.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: But if there ever is, they're going to know about it.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Gee wow, wow Wow. I feel like you just opened
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: the door that you should keep shut there, Tip, I
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: think you want to keep that whole zen thing going on.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: But it is that's just between you and Google. You
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: really shouldn't be discussing it on a podcast.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to start getting inundated with dating sites.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: There's probably already one on your phone right now, t
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: if you probably want to check it.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Oh no, that's yeah. There's something to be said for
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: old tech and low tech and low tech cars.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I think now the interesting thing is unrelated. But there
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: was a story last week. I don't know if you
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: caught it, Craig, but the United States is at the
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: moment seriously considering banning Japanese cars, all Japanese cars after
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: a certain years, certain models unless they can guarantee that
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: they are not communicating information. Sorry not did I say Japanese.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I mean Chinese cars that are not communicating with China.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: So unless the manufactur can guarantee but there's no continuous
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: communication with China, they are not permitted to sell the car. Now,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: the Chinese car makers have come back and said, well,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: that's impossible. That makes all of our products essentially non functional.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: They need to be communicating in real time all the time,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and we need to work something out. But the US
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: government is starting to take a bit of a hard
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: line on this sort of thing, particularly when it comes
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: to China. And I'm not suggesting that as a solution,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: because there are undoubtedly benefits to all of this. You know,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: is it such a bad thing that we're heading towards
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: a future where cars are not driven so much as
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: they just drive us automatically, they take care of all
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: that stuff, and where a car where you actually had
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: to navigate and drive yourself would be seen by you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: future generations the way we might look at our horse
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: and buggy, you know, interesting collector's item. But what do
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: you mean you drive the car, You get in the car,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: it takes you where you need to go, and it
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: knows where you need to go, and it handles all
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: that messy driving around stuff all on its own. And
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: we're rapidly accelerating towards that, and that's not necessarily a
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: bad thing. But in the meantime, what we've got to
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: do is make sure that we're building in the privacy
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: protection that we need to have. I mean, we haven't
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: bothered with the Internet, which is why you're getting ads
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: for creatine when you have a conversation in a cafe.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: But we've got to start paying attention to this stuff.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: These devices are listening all the time. We've got to
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: know that and agree to it. And our governments need
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: to catch up on that.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: The American government they put one hundred percent tariff on
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Chinese cars or one hundred percent tax, so they really
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: don't want China in there. But my and like I said,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: my car is not fancy. It's nice. It's not a
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: million dollar car. But I can get out of my car.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I can get out of my car in the driveway
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: and it puts itself away in the garage, it drives forward.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Oh glad, it's not fancy, fancy at all. You can't
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: get out of my car in the driveway. You know
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: what it does. It's in the driveway.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: It's fuck and you know what else it does. It
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you're not meant to do this, but
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: it steers itself. So if I'm going around a bend
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: and I take my hands off, I take my hands
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: off the wheel. Not that I would do this because
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: it would be illegal, but allegedly, if i'd take my
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: hands off the wheel, Let's say, if I was driving
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: to Ron and Mary's. But I wouldn't do it because
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: it's illegal, But if I did, it drives around the
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: corner for you.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Sometimes.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Well I was going to say every time this far,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: but better be incriminating. Allegedly allegedly, but after a while,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: allegedly it starts beeping at you and says, put your
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: fucking hands on the wheel, you idiot. But yeah, I mean,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: we're just talking about a Korean car that's you know,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: not allegedly not that fancy, but yeah, cars, But.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: According to choice, if you had you know, I know
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: this hasn't happened. You know, you're talking hypotheticals here, but
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: if you had, for example, done what you just described.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Which I definitely haven't, if I had, then.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: The manufacturer would know about it.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Well, oh, my sphincter just snapshot boops. Oh there you go.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: That's a good thing. I haven't done that.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: It seems like you might need incognito mode for your car.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Oh dear, but really, I mean, like you said, I
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: actually highlighted that thing you said. You go, this is
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: in David's article. Read the article, and then read the
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: choice article. Everyone, if you feel fucking compelled, of course,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: don't do what I say you wrote. Of course, there's
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: always the opt out option, but very deep within a
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: ten thousand word user agreement written in the legal equivalent
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: of cling on. I laughed at that, but I thought
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: half the audience won't know what cling on. Do you
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: know what klingon is?
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Tiff, you're glad rap.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: That's my audience.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's I thought, impressed if yeah, I've totally
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: missed it. Yeah, I know what klingon is, But I
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: thought probably seventy percent of the readers won't know what
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: klingon is.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: So clean on LinkedIn, I mean most people on LinkedIn
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: probably know what star Trek is.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Well, so that's the language that they speak on Star Trek.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Oh clear the cling Yeah, the cling.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: On people do. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Interesting interesting factoid for you. Do you know that the
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: more people speak cling on than Swedish?
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I know that Sheldon on The Big Bang does. All right,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: so this might be a brief episode. So what's the
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: potential strategy here for us who don't want to be
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: controlled by the overlords without our knowledge?
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Well, the first step, I mean you don't you don't
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: get to tell you Elon Musk what he does and
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: doesn't do with his technology and probably needed as the
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Australian government. But what you can do is just be
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: aware of it. Understand that if there is any kind
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: of device near you, it is listening to what you're saying,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: it is recording everything you do, and there's a better
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: than even chance that it's also visually recording what you're doing. Now,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: you know, there's plenty of evidence. Now no one's owning
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: up to this, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: that advertisers do access cameras, for example, in phones, to
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: check imovement to see whether you're actually interested in what
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: you're looking at or not. So the just be aware
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: that this tech can't be one hundred percent trusted, and
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: it often amazes me how much people don't think about it. So,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: for example, we all love using the navigation on our phones.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, you get lost the entire time if you didn't,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: But very few people think about what's involved in providing
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: that navigation, which is that it has to know where
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: you start, where you go, where you stop along the way,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: how long it takes you to get there, how fast
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: you travel to get there. It has to know all
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: of that to do its job. Where are the guarantees
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: that none of that is being recorded. There's certainly nothing
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: like that in the end user agreements that say anything
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: about the fact that they are that they won't record
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: information about your trip. We are not very far from
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: a place where police forces start requiring that information. You
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: could imagine how valuable information about where you've been and
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: when would be to a law enforcement authority. It's bad
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: enough that it's being used to sell your handbags, but
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: when it goes to someone who's actually got the power
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to put you in jail, that's a different kettle of
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: fish altogether.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yesterday I was driving to the gym
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: and I was going up a street near my house.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: It's quite just a long sloke about a three k
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: straight road, And as I was driving, I didn't have
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: the navigation turned on, but it's just there on the screen,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: and it you know, when something's busy, the road turns
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: red right so or like you can see a head
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: there's red on the road, which means it's busy, or
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: orange it's busy ish, but red it's really busy. Anyway,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I was sitting stopped at a kid's pedestrian crossing, and
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: there was about ten cars in front of me, and
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I was just sitting there and the only part of
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: the road that was red was where I was sitting
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: right now in real time. I'm like, how does this
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: possibly know in real time that I am sitting stopped
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: behind ten cars waiting for some kids that are crossing.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, because it's transmitting your position information. Every car
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: on the road, Every car on the road has a
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: phone in it, at least one phone. All those phones
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: are constantly if they have location services turned on, transmitting
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: their location information to Google's servers. So that's how they
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: do that traffic. That's how it's so accurate, that's how
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: it's so nuanced, because they know where every car is
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: and how fast it is going, and they are recording that.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: And that's the interesting part about this. If people see
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: the end result, which is I get a nice map
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: that shows me how to go, but don't think about
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: what has to happen. How much information do they have
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: to have about you in order to do this. There's
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: an interesting experiment that was done a few years ago
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: by a chap who wanted to really mess with Google
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: on this. What he did was he got a little
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: you know, the little trailer of those things you buy
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: from Bunnings with the people.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I know this story, I know this story, but tell
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: it though.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Filled it with mobile phones, and then and then went
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and parked it on a bridge that he didn't want
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: traffic to go over. Google thought there's a massive traffic
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: jam on that bridge, and all of its maps showed
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: it that way. So of course all the uba drivers
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: are avoiding it because they get their maps from Google,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: and all the other traffics avoiding it because everyone has
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: the same thing turned on that you did, and so
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: the road's gone red and so they're going a different way,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: or even they're letting Google do that automatically, which of
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: course it can do, which is suggest a different route
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: because that one is all clogged up. So that's an
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: example of how much data is being collected about you
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: in real time without you even being aware of it.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: And so what I say is the first step, probably
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: the only step you or I can take here is
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: be aware of it. Understand don't be surprised when you
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: get offered creating because you talked about it your phone,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: he's listening and recording it.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Do you, if you put on your lawyer's hat for
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: a moment, do you think that it's going to be
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: that the police will start to use that data? Because
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would understand there. I would understand them
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: wanting to do that, because it would, at the very least,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: it would seem to be able to provide some valuable
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: information in certain contexts.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: It crosses a line, a really important line, and that's
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: the one I mentioned before, which is it's all well
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: and good. A company who wants to sell you something
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: knowing all this information about you. Well, I want to say,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: all well and good. It's not that horrible, except the
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: one in Tift's house recording everything that goes on there.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: But it's.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Still just a commercial arrangement. And even if you haven't
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: opted into it. You'll become aware of it. In the
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: worst case scenario here is that you get presented, you know,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: with a box of creatine. When you transfer that over
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: to authority that has the power to prosecute and jail you,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: then that's a very different thing altogether. And our legal
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: system quite honestly, isn't built for this, hasn't anticipated this
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: at all. Yes, And at the moment, there's kind of
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: a wall there where the private companies who we are
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: trusting not to do anything bad with all that information
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: they know about us, are we're also trusting not to
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: ever release that information to a law enforcement authority if
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: they ask for it. It's a big line in trust,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I've got to say. And it's an area where we
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: really need to start thinking about it because it's going
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: to bite.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Oh my god. I wonder what the future
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: holds well, t if we're being spied on, we're being tracked,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: we're being monitored, and I don't think we have the
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: level of freedom that we thought we do.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: But on the upside, Tiff can turn off her lights
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: without getting out of bed.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I can get creating heads.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: That's right, mate.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you. Go on, tiff, were you going to
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: say something?
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: I was sad I didn't have to put up with
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: this ship on the Humalayas there.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: No, Well, someone was tracking you because you had your phone.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you had your phone. Someone new you were there.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: In fact, I'll bet if you go and look up
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: your phone's history of your geographic location, which you're supposed
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: to be able to do, it'll have every place.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: You went, So you're not that Dalai lama after all.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: No, no, all right mate
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Thank you nowhere I see you