Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / From Financial Planning Degree To Head Of Advice In Dubai | Rebecca Ellis

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From Financial Planning Degree To Head Of Advice In Dubai | Rebecca Ellis · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is Rebecca Ellis, a chartered fellow and head of advice at Title Wealth International.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Rebecca's career is a brilliant example of building depth before chasing titles.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: She came into the profession through a university degree in financial planning, and we dig into whether that route is worth it, what it gives you, and how it compares to other paths into the profession.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: She started her career in the UK, worked closely with strong female leaders, and we talk about the impact that had on her confidence, ambition, and standards.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: We also explore why she chose to build her career in the operational and technical leadership space, what leadership development looks like inside Titan Wealth, and how being part of a larger international organization has opened up huge opportunities for her career, learning, and influence.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Rebecca, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast, this wonderful Titan Wealth partnership that we have.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we're over here in Dubai.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Somewhere you've spent now quite a bit of your time in the International Office of Titan Wealth.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So before we kick things off, can you just tell me who you are and what you do here at Titan Wealth and how long you've been here?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my name is Rebecca Ellis, and I'm head of advice at Titan Wealth International.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in Dubai for nine years or so now, and with Titan Wealth for about two years.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So what is your job though?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do day-to-day?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Can you kind of give us an insight?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so day-to-day, um, primarily I'm here to support the financial planners when they're out doing their day-to-day business.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: So whether that's joining client meetings with them, sitting down with them before a meeting to discuss a case, um, you know, there's a lot of liaising we have to do between the providers, tax advisors, accountants, just trying to work out what the right um advice is for our clients.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's part of it, helping the advisors to go about their usual day.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second part is a bit more operational.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So get involved with lots of projects.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: For example, we've got lots of clients that are moving from, let's say, the UAE back to the UK.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there's projects involved there to ensure those clients are kind of transition quite smoothly across to a new advisor in the UK and make sure that you know those advisors are aware of the nuances that exist in the international financial planning space.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So very much technical expertise combined with operational and process improvement for the overall client experience.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get a bit of a buzz out of that?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get a buzz out of making things better, smoother, um, a better experience overall for both advisor and client?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's what I've always enjoyed.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure we'll come into a bit more on my background and the kind of roles that I've done in the past, but now I'm really enjoying kind of supporting the advisors, giving them the tools that they need to be able to go out and give you know good quality advice to their clients and in kind of efficient ways.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, lots going on with technology at the moment and how we can improve things, be more efficient.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really good to get involved in in all that side of things to give that advice to our clients.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you've really only ever known it as Titan wealth then?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I came in just before the acquisition happened.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So there were rumours that it was about to happen, and I think we did all know it was going to happen.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: So came in, it was about eight weeks before the deal kind of officially went through.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was an exciting time to join the business, and lots of changes had kind of happened before I joined.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: There were certain things that had to be sorted out before the deal could go through, and then bits that have changed post-deal, and lots more going on in the future, what we've got lined up.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I bet when you were sort of interviewing at the time, it was, you know, they were probably really excited about the growth of the business, where it was going.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was quite unique in the sense that first P backed international business.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm sure they told you about the huge opportunity that was going to come.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Has that come into fruition?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, to be honest, I don't think we knew really what was going to happen post-deal.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the role in the opportunities that I've had since joining over the last two years have been much bigger than I ever expected.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought I was coming in to you know head up our advice proposition.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And okay, there might be some involvement in some of the marketing that's going on, quality of advice, assessing that, suitability.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it's been so many more projects and things that have been kind of thrown my way, which never expected.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's all been really exciting.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you're moved into an environment that really scratches that itch of ambition for you, learning, you love the technical knowledge, love getting involved in projects, etc.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So plenty for you to get your teeth stuck into.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's been um just just one example is um there's a firm that we're looking at buying in Europe, and I'm off next week to visit that firm to look at some of their systems, processes, you know, see what they've got in place because we have to make sure that they can be kind of integrated into you know our systems and processes to see how that fits in.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's the kind of thing that I never thought I would end up doing on a day-to-day basis.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So really exciting.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And with the appetite to acquire more, that experience of migration of clients and advisors, it's only going to open you up to a huge amount more opportunity, really.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose you see some really good things that other businesses are doing that this business might not be doing and bringing them in to the ecosystem of Titan Wealth, right?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got you know the kind of ability to change things, it's quite um interesting, like you said, to go out and see these companies look what they're doing.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: The international advice space is a little bit different.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's you know, clients think differently or you know have different objectives in different parts of the world.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting to see how other companies have either built those propositions, perhaps just for clients in that area, or they might have built things that are more suitable for clients kind of on a global scale.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we'll go in and have a look at what they've got and then work out what we would keep, how we can improve what they've got, and then you know try and bring the businesses together.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think about the client first or the advisor advisor first?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's the the kind of thing that you think about the most?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately it's the client, but because I deal with the advisors more.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to you know look after though the advisors, but yeah, everything at the end of the day is to give the best outcomes for the client.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Good answer.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I like that one.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so nine years you've spent in the international space.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you end up coming out to um was it always in Dubai as well?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So nine years in Dubai?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: So what was your reason for coming out here then?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so when I moved over to Dubai, I'd been working in the UK.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was happy with how everything was going, done lots of exams, done my qualifications.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I just thought, you know, at that time I was fairly young and I thought, you know, why not?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Why not move to Dubai?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was an opportunity with it's a salaried role, which is quite different to some of the other roles that historically offered in this part of the world.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought if it goes wrong, I'm sure I can come back and quite easily get into another job in the UK.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll tell you what we'll do is we're going to go back to the very, very beginning, okay?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because you were at university.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: You went to university to do what degree?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I started off doing an accounting and finance degree.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Then what happened?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I did my first year of accounting and finance.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed it.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: It always, you know, prior to going to university, it seemed like the logical thing to do.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I liked business studies, I liked maths.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, let's go into some kind of accounting business.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Then towards the end of my first year of studying, I heard, or already knew to some extent about it, there was a financial planning degree.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And they were really struggling to get students onto that course.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: People didn't really know what financial planning was.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I certainly didn't at that age.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this was around the time of RDR.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we were told that lots of advisors in the UK would be retiring.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was a you know great industry to get into, there would be lots of jobs.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, why not?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, on my course for the accounting and finance, I think there was about 200 students on the financial planning degree.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: They had, I think, 20.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that's interesting.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: That could be something where I'm not going to be, you know, graduating with the same degree as across the country, thousands of other people.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So off I went.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I switched courses, had one unit to catch up on, but otherwise I was, you know, back into the second year.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think if I'd have had to start again, I probably wouldn't have been as interested.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: But knowing that I could just switch straight into the second year of the other course, the financial planning course, that's the route that I took.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: At that point, though, were you kind of a bit disheartened with accountancy after a year of it?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Were you thinking, oh my god, I've picked the wrong degree, I want to get out?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or was it in the actual or were you actually turned onto the career of financial planning, the way they articulated it?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think I never had been inspired or seen anything different with accounting.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: It just seemed like the logical thing to do.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Then when I heard about the financial planning degree and about um things that were changing in the UK were qualifications, more people were looking to get financial advice.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, you know, that actually sounds quite interesting, and this is something I'd be more interested in.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I look back to when I was growing up, I remember I don't know how old I would have been at this point, but my mum used to play this game with them, must have been five or six, and would have a collection of coins.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say to her, I want to buy something.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or she'd say to me, put together this amount of money, and I'd be scraping together the coins to get the right amount.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I always had an interest in money.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was always quite good at saving back then.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think personal finances had always been of interest to me.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that's actually a money story.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: We are often asked, like, what's your earliest memory of money?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And yours is almost playing a game of fine, your mum gamifying.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: How old were you at the time?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't know, must have been five or six, I reckon.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there we go.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing this thing with my daughter at the moment, Isabella.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um at Christmas, your kids are like, she's a single kid, right, as well.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So she's on a iPad all time playing games on YouTube, and it's a bit of a nightmare as a parent.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of gotta think to yourself, hang on, I've got to pull her away from that.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: But she's like hyper creative, really super creative.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: So once you get involved with her and create a game around something or a hobby or a task, she gets really, really into it.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I set her up for um creating Izzy's nails.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So she was making these paper nails that she saw on YouTube.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I allow her to watch the YouTube to any kind of educational stuff.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So she started making these nails, and then we got Procreate for the iPad and a pen.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So then she's just a designer nails.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So and then we take the nails designed and put them onto ChatGPT to create an end product, and then we designed Izzy's nails.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we even I started explaining to her how Daddy uses YouTube to make money.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And like I showed her my channel and everything, and I said, Imagine if you did the same as that girl's doing now around this.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So then we started talking about business.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're actually getting to the point where if she does enough nails designed, I'm gonna go on like Alibaba and I'm gonna find somebody to make the nails, use the branding, and create the box with these nails on it, and she can sell them to her friends, like nails for kids, basically, which I haven't got the crazy glue and all of that kind of stuff.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's so interesting because even at that age, when you bring the money element into it and how I make money as an entrepreneur and how I use YouTube to do that and to market it, she was like super interested in it.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just so easy, isn't it, to play other games?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: But it's those little early stories that might define the future.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And in yours, it actually did, possibly.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: All right, brilliant stuff.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you were doing that degree.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: How you know, how educational or how relevant?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say this because maybe someone's going to university and they're gonna go, hang on, there's a you there's a degree in financial planning, maybe I'll do that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: How how good was it and how relevant was it to a career within financial planning?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of the theory, it was spot on.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we had, I think over the course of the degree, let's say there were eight units, six of them were very closely aligned to the CII RO exams.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: In an ideal world for the university, we would have had exemptions from all of those, but there was a bit of an issue in that the university required us to have some group work, whereas the exam board wouldn't allow any um group work to be included to get the exemptions.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we came out of, we graduated and we had exemptions for half of the RO exams.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: There was three more to do.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we'd already studied the content, so in terms of that side of things, we were very well equipped um to go out into the real world.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: We had many kind of local IFA firms would come in and do presentations.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: There was lots of opportunities for kind of summer internships.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Some of my um the other students did kind of the placement years, but I don't think you can ever be fully equipped for what the real world is.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you kind of graduate, you think you know everything, and then you step into a firm and kind of realise actually this is very different to perhaps what you thought, or when you actually see it in real life when there's a real client, it's a little bit different.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there are financial planning apprenticeships out there.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: We had a bit of a discussion about it.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, looking back when you were there, some people were doing internships in the summer and stuff, there wasn't like a requirement that you could go and work in a firm for a year or something along those lines then.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't this kind of get the lived experience whilst doing the degree alongside the um the work?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, so it wasn't a requirement.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I did a placement or an internship over the summer holidays, I think after the second year.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to the local IFA business to where my parents were living, spent eight weeks there just seeing what goes on and kind of the things that you don't learn on the course, such as you know, the post comes, valuations arrived, you've got to scan them on the system, like all that kind of stuff that you think, oh, actually, this is in practical terms what it looks like, and looking at evaluation, seeing the breakdown of the different funds and trying to piece together all this knowledge that you've learned from the textbook or you know from the course.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like um the financial planning qualification, it was looked at as um attractive to potential future employees?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when you left university, you had a few opportunities lined up because a lot of people struggle to get into financial planning, regardless of what degree they've actually got.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: But did that F financial planning one, did that set you up straight away to walk straight into a firm?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think from the course, those 20 of us that graduated, those of us who wanted to go straight into a traditional financial planning style role, we had numerous offers.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we could pretty much pick and choose where we wanted to go.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think the employers liked that, that you'd been through the degree, you actually knew what this was about, you'd done some of your exams and you were well on your way to becoming level four qualified.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we all had you know plenty of options in terms of where we wanted to go and what to do.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: For people listening now and they're I'm in a gnarring about whether or not they do that qualification through the university, or perhaps they just go straight in and do their R01 to R06 and maybe get an apprenticeship.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to them now?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you could go back in time, would you do things differently?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a difficult question because there are so at the time, or even before I went to university, I was looking when I was going down the accountancy route at taking up an apprenticeship, couldn't find anything local, and I don't know how it's changed now, but back then to pay for those type of courses, you would need to be living close to kind of your family home.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't really afford to go off somewhere else and do that type of thing.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I probably that would have been my first choice, but I didn't find anything.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up going off to university.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And looking back now, I'm very glad with how everything has turned out.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in Dubai, there's certain roles that you need to have a degree.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the role that I have here and the position I have on the license in the UAE, you have to have a degree.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So unfortunately, if I had gone down the apprenticeship route, done my exams, I wouldn't be able to have the role that I have here now.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a requirement of the UAE.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, well, there we go.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's brilliant.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's really good advice.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's sitting there listening to this and they want to go down the international route, degree would be better.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Glad we had that conversation.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's really good.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So left university, uh, got yourself into a financial planning business.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how many of you and your peers ended up becoming actual financial planners straight away?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or what route and pathway did most go down?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what did you go down?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so some of the people on the course, they went down the route trying to go straight into more of an advisory role.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I just decided the time when I graduated, I was 21, I would start at the bottom and work my way up.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the firm that I went to had a graduate scheme.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: The other people that were on that scheme, they hadn't had the experience that I had from doing the degree.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I still followed the same programme.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of expected when I joined.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I said, look, we'll do the usual rounds as per the graduate scheme and then kind of see what happens.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I went in and started off in the corporate scheme, did some kind of work on the group schemes, then went over to the pension team, and then I started working one-on-one with an advisor, started off doing her kind of admin support for those clients, got to know the clients, and then kind of went on to power planning and then into more of a technical role for those clients.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we'll get onto that in a minute.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: But what part did qualifications play in your career early on?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Did you continue uh the qualification sort of route?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Did you did you get chartered?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I did the additional exams that I needed to do to get to level four within probably six months of graduating.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Then thought the natural thing is to go on for the chartered and the fellow.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I got a fellow before I was chartered because I needed to get the five years' experience um for chartered.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that was all done within a couple of years of graduating.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I was chartered by 23, I think it was.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I know people have done it, it's quite late probably now because people did it much sooner.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: But that was um, yeah, kind of top of my list really that I wanted to get the qualifications out the way early on.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, okay.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you're probably one of the youngest female chartered fellows at the time.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know whether you where you sat within that at all, or did you ever look it up?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I looked it up and I think there was someone who had done it before me.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Female, maybe.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'd distinguish between that at the time.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have to check that out and look it up.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you mentioned um you were working with a with an advisor, male, female?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Female.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right, okay.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about that then, okay?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because distinct lack of women in the financial planning profession, you went through your degree.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Out of interest, how many were actually doing a degree that were female?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Probably six, so out of twenty.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, round about right.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or for the for the figures, not right in respect of what we're looking to attract, right?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you went to that firm, you started working with a female financial planner, you said that you went down more the uh power planning admin route.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: How important or how beneficial was it to you that you were mentored by a female?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think when I was going through that kind of progression of going from doing the kind of admin support to the power planning role, I felt like I was very quickly coming to the point of the advisor role, which I didn't really feel ready for yet.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: But working alongside another female who had done it, it really kind of inspired me to see then what women could do within this industry.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And this lady, she was probably about 10 years older than me, and she'd been with that company a long time.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So she'd also kind of been through the ranks and you know, started off doing the admin, the power planning, and then taking clients on from that point.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, given that it's such a you know male-dominated industry, and I know the numbers are getting better in terms of female representation, it was you know really inspiring to work alongside another female who had kind of been through a similar journey to what I'd been through in kind of progressing and being able to advise clients ultimately.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: When you were that age though, your chartered fellow, like 23 23 years old, did you did you feel like you were too young to be a financial planner?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Did you fit there was there something about the the role and the responsibility or the types of clients that you were probably going to be facing?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Did you feel that you were too young in respect of life experience?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Completely.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's gonna be part of how I ended up on the Dubai journey because been in the UK, working for a couple of years, you know, post-graduating, done all my exams, the chartered the fellow, but I just didn't feel like I had that kind of life experience and I think confidence as well to go out and advise people.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And when I look back now, I think I would have been capable of doing it.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think at the time I just didn't feel like it was the right thing for me to do.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, a lot of it comes down to the confidence of you know going out and sitting in front of people and advising them when you know they might be 10, 20, 30 years kind of further into their career.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: I always had that perception of they wouldn't want to listen to someone that's in their early 20s as their financial advisor.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: So taking things slowly as well, you know, you weren't rushing.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of advisors tend to kind of find their their stride around 30 anyway, when it comes to being an actual planner.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so leaning into that administration power planner route, technical experience.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that the Chartered Fellow qualification really helped with the technical side of the role?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Was that something that you feel like improved your knowledge and expertise when it came to um specific types of client scenarios, for example, and helping that financial advisor with the power planning?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the textbooks and the theory that you learn from junior qualifications is it's the fundamentals, it's the basics.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: But there's got to be, you know, it's very different when you've actually got a real client situation in front of you.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you remember going back to studying if you get a question wrong, it doesn't really matter.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: But when you've actually got a client's financial position in front of you, and you're, you know, if you're making a few assumptions and not quite sure how to do a calculation, whatever it may be, I think that's where you actually feel like, right, this is a really important role.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I need to make sure that I'm not cutting any corners and 100% sure on what I'm doing here and how we're working things out.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you were Charleston Feller, you're in the UK, you're working closely with a financial planner, you then decided to go to Dubai, and nine years later, you're now working for Titan Wealth International.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Before you joined Titan Wealth, then you mentioned about power planning administration.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Were these roles prevalent in the international space when you got into it, or did you have to fight for it?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: How sort of sought after were you as a skill set?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And is it still the same?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think when I first moved out here in 2017, the industry out here was going through a bit of a change.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Financial advisors, wealth managers, they all didn't have a particularly good perception in the international market.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because the the role as a financial planner hadn't really been valued.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And for various reasons, I think things had happened that you know probably shouldn't have happened that didn't give the industry the kind of um credibility that it deserves.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: But around the time, probably a couple of years before I joined, firms were starting out here, were starting to get a bit more likely to have technical expertise in-house.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: We used to have a lot more technical expertise from the providers.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: So the portfolio bond providers, the pension trustees that operated in this space would send out their technical people.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: That was starting to die down a bit.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was ultimately from around, let's say, 2017 onwards, up to the firms then to have more people in-house being able to offer that technical kind of resource.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I moved out to Dubai, got you know, people saw around me that the knowledge that I had from the UK.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: There was definitely a bit of a spin needed to kind of bring in the international piece to it.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: So just an example would be you know, you're working in the UK, you don't really look at how the statutory residence test works in too much detail because the clients that I was dealing with in the UK were all living in the UK with very little international connection, then you come out here and you've got clients who want to go and spend a bit of time in the UK but not become UK residents.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to kind of take it on yourself to learn the detail of those kind of things because that's you know, every day now we talk about the residency test.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas when I was in the UK, you know it exists, but I didn't know the details and how to help clients kind of go through that flowchart.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you have us have seen some seriously interesting client situations, like the the weird and the wonderful spicy bits of advice that are probably out there.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um it gives you a bank a knowledge.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: How important is it that you share that knowledge with the advisors here at Titan Wealth?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we see different client situations every day.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of our clients are British expats that are in the Middle East planning to go back to the UK at some point in the future.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then we have all sorts of other connections where they might have assets that they've built up in other jurisdictions, they might be receiving shares through their employer that are listed on a stock market somewhere in the world.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we have lots of different considerations to build in, and we're often planning for at least three, maybe four different jurisdictions in terms of where they're living now, where they might end up in the future, where their assets are held.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of pulling all that together, it's you're never going to know anything.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we are, you know, it's huge kind of sharing culture here in that we will work together and we're always asking each other in the office.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Someone just shouts out, does anyone know how a pension's taxed here or how this works?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And where we've got the knowledge, we'll help each other.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: If we haven't got it, we'll you know try and find it externally.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: But there's no, there's no manual, there's no textbook for the international, you know, financial planning world.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's all just kind of pieced together and we've got to you know work together to ensure that we can give that right advice to our clients when there's multi-jurisdictions involved.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Before we get into a little bit more detail about the operational side over advice, because that's the route you've gone down now, and that's the route that you've chosen.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: I want to kind of talk about what's opened up for you, why you've chosen that route, and whether or not you ever will go down the advice route.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get into that in a bit.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I do want to kind of bring in your lifestyle because you are international.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a lot of people, probably in January, February, listening to this podcast thinking, oh my god, I'd love to be in Dubai.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, women, perhaps, right?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe women have got a perception of Dubai uh of it being dangerous or like it maybe being unsafe or the Middle East or you know, whatever it might well be.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's an Islamic country and there are certain rules in some countries.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um love to hear about your personal experience being a young female within Dubai.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and over those nine years, what have you what have you got up to?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you get up to at the weekends?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do for fun?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, can you make friends easily?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it is it a great place to live?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about that, you know.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like from your over your nine-year period, what's it been like to live here and what have you been up to?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, when I first moved here, I'd never actually been to the Middle East before.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'd travelled through an airport here when I was off to New Zealand many, many years ago.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd never been before.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So remember my mum was a little bit skeptical.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a safe place?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh, it'll be fine, don't worry.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I genuinely have had no issues, like felt completely safe here.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: We do all sorts of wonderful things.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: We typically don't lock our front doors, leave your car keys in the car, like all that thing is quite normal out here.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a very safe place to be.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: So whether that's in terms of you know your personal possessions, leaving your phone on the table when you're in a bar and a restaurant, that's touch wood always okay.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in terms of you know personal safety, it's okay to walk around late at night on your own.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's probably certain areas that I wouldn't go and do that in, but around where our office is in the marina, it's full of experts, very safe place to be.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, lots of the kind of residential communities are similar as well.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, you have to respect the local cultures, um, but as long as you you do that, then you should be you know relatively safe to do as you like.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: What about making friends?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Easy to make friends out here?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think everybody at some point has moved out here and not known anyone or had to start from from scratch.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a very easy place.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's always um you know groups where when I first moved out here, there's a Facebook page and you kind of write on there to say, Well, I've just moved, I don't know anyone, does anyone want to meet up?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I went and met a group of girls.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: This was in the first couple of days of me being out here, and two of them I am still in touch with today, nearly 10 years later.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: The other five or six that were there, not sure what they're up to now.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's always um very easy to meet people, and there's depending on what your interests are, there's groups for that.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I do a lot of cycling.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've got an amazing cycling track out in the desert, goes for probably about 200 kilometres.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can also get pretty close to like Yaz Island at Abu Dhabi now on the tracks.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: They've just extended it up towards Abu Dhabi.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: So cycling is a big thing for me.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of groups, communities, depending on whether you want an easier ride or you want to go out and talk to yourself on a on a hard and fast ride.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there's yeah, lots of different options there, but it's a very welcoming place to be.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there's loads of sports, that's kind of what my interest is.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: But other clubs and hobbies, I'm pretty sure you could find most things here now.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the health and well-being sounds like what you're really into at this point in your life.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and one thing I noticed when I was out here, there was a lot of that.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're absolutely spot on.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's gyms everywhere, isn't there?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's out running, everyone, and there's a lot of people here that look super duper fit, right?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess it's the beach life as well, it's the culture.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: You want to look good when the sun's shining.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I came out here and I stuck on a stone.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: I did, in fact, my my my training and everything went downhill because I was working so much.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we call it the Dubai stone.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know I heard, and I haven't quite shifted it yet, you know.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working on it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's definitely got that vibe here.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, a lot of people just kind of take a perception from say Instagram of like these Instagram influencers walking around doing selfies and everything.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, look, that is one side of Dubai, you know, the same as it is in the UK.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, there's a whole kind of culture of uh health, well-being, and uh convenience here as well, man.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like I as seems like that straight the career map and got all my breakfast delivered like within half an hour, and it's like, oh god, I like so you know, Harry Haircut came around and cut my hair.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd booked him in before I'd even gone out and he turns up at my house.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: The convenience side of Dubai for me is absolutely brilliant.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look, we are in a really spot-on place.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can even see my old apartment from here, actually.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: But we're in we're in the marina.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking out the window now, we've got the boats down there.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: The office is beautiful.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's cognitively calming for me.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I walked in here, I was like, hang about, this is pretty chill.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel where you're situated?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: How does that impact you and your well-being and how you turn up at work?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the office is in a great location.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Within the office, we're you know, all quite interested in our health and fitness.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's a group did a triathlon just before Christmas, so there was kind of a training programme going on for that.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's always groups going off running, so it really does help when you're you know running a kind of fairly stressful and fast-paced life to have that kind of you know be surrounded by people that have got similar interests and working on that.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tell the Titan wealth in general, though, haven't they?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Have got a very keen interest in sports.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the sports division that's been set out here, the Premier Sports Network Spencer's come on board.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's the Academy in the UK that is taking people from ex-professional sports like rugby all the way through their qualifications to be able to deliver advice to people within the sports industry.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: They sponsor a lot of sports, uh, the golf and uh rugby and all everything.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's really nice to be part of a business that does that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I you know, I loved it actually because I'm a mental health advocate all the time, and um, loose heads, which is like this rugby uh charity that is around mental health and everything.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think, you know, as a business, they clearly do care.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um it's important, right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, sport, well-being, um, whether that's physical or mental, is is represented in the business.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and Titan Wealth seem to be leading by example there, which is really, really beautiful.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, right, let's get back to your job, right?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you are operational, okay, as it stands at the moment.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you didn't go down the advice route then.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Not for you.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is it gonna be for you in the future?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you in that journey?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is it do you see yourself doing operational, uh client-centric behind-the-scenes stuff working with advisors, or are you gonna go down the financial advice route?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I don't think my role change in I'll end up advising more clients.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I do have some clients that I've picked up along the way over the years, but I think with because there's so much going on with Titan as a group at the moment, I've been heavily involved in some of the projects and like I said, it's some of the acquisition pieces.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that maybe more of the business strategy side is is where I'll end up going in in the future.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that really excites you as well?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like that bigger picture type.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because going back to when I was before I went off to university, it was always the business that was always interesting for me.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I did my MBA a couple of years ago, so that kind of broadened my business understanding a little bit, got a bit more involved, you know, parts of marketing strategy.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's where my kind of future career is going to take me, and I hope Titan will support me in that.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what are they doing so far to support you in that then?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So just after I joined, there was a next generation leaders program, which a couple of us from the Dubai office are on.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So picked, I think there's 12 of us in total from around the group.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: We meet usually in London about every three months, and we've done some leadership training, we've got a project that we've been working on.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been really good to see some of the challenges that happen at group level.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Just if, for example, we're pulling all these companies together, we've all got different ways of reporting our data.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: So then, as a kind of group of individuals, when we're looking at some of the projects on this next leaders course, next generation leaders course, we think, oh, actually, you can see why there's some of these challenges of not having the same data, there's no consistency with the data.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been really interesting to see you know what goes on at the kind of group level.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: So leadership for you is something that um excites you.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can understand a bit more why you dip your toe and knee a little bit into the client stuff, because it kind of gives you that level of experience, but you don't want to be in that place because they are completely different roles.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I like getting involved in the wider group business as well because I like to connect dots.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but and then I and at the same time I do enjoy you know sitting down with people and and and and building relationships, I think is a big part of it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's really interesting.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you're on that leadership course as well.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I've heard really, really good things about it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a few of them in the office that are on it, and um Andreas told me about it as well.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the projects sound really, really exciting.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's good to know.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone joins a business, it's gonna not just think, right, you're in Dubai and that's all you're gonna do.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because at the end of the day, what people need to understand is that this is a fast-growing, very large, international, highly regulated financial planning business, the biggest globally, you know, as from an international perspective, it's huge.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: So the opportunity there is massive, and it's not a business that's slowing down.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we were both in London about strategy meeting, and we're sitting there thinking, like, well, I was lucky to be there and be behind the scenes and really learning about the business.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you could tell there were some seriously intelligent people there.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: There were some great things that were happening.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I spoke to James yesterday, you know, he's a he's the he's the founder walking around this office, introducing himself to everybody, telling me about the future of the business.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds super exciting, you know, whether it's an acquisition going on in America and stepping more into America, or it's you know, different groups coming in and different parts of the business, and ultimately offering that higher level of service to client, that one-stock shop.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think super exciting, plenty, um, plenty of opportunity.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a question I'm asking everybody.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: What does one Titan mean to you?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's bringing together all these experts in their different fields that have something to do with giving good quality advice to clients and allowing us to share that practice between us and put the infrastructure together to be able to support clients where they can transition from the buy office back to the UK without too much kind of admin, too much hassle.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: But bringing it all together and for me, having the opportunity to work with some of the people within the group, never expected that when I joined.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been you know really inspiring to be able to work with some of these other people, see what they've done, see what they do for their clients, and then allow our clients to have access to that as well.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: What I love as well is this that international, you're in the international space.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Historically, you may never have really had ties to the UK outside of really perhaps a license there and the clients that you're dealing with.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas now you've got tons of experts within all different facets of the business.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: So your kind of connection to the UK, it becomes symbiotic, doesn't it?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it really is truly that kind of one business.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that kind of cross-border feel and having that area of expertise, it can only be more confident, confidence um inducing for the client to know that there's such a big brand and such a big business behind it, especially in that international space where trust is just super duper important.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing your financial plan of life.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're gonna hear loads more from you in the future.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna appear on the Titan Wealth podcast as well with the lovely Sophie Abdul.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we're looking forward to recording that with you as well.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much for joining me today.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for cheers.