Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / Ep. 522 – Uncovering Haunting Tales: Ghosts, Ghouls, and Goblins; feat. Expanded Perspectives Podcast
Transcript
- Chris Jennings: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host, Chris Jennings. Joining me in studio today is my cohost, Dr. Mike Brasher. Mike, how are you? Doing well, Chris. How you doing? Doing awesome. Also joining us for this Halloween special, once again, the guys from Expanded Perspectives, Kyle Filson and Cam Hale. Kyle, Cam, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. Cam Hale: Thank you very much. We're super psyched about being here, man. We had a good time last time. Looking forward to today's show. Kyle Philson: Always fun talking to you guys. Chris Jennings: Yeah, this is going to be fantastic. So where this whole show came from is our social media editor, Mallory Murphy, wrote a piece on basically it's like spooky hunting destinations. Now we're not necessarily referencing the hunting at these destinations, we're just pointing out these really odd and bizarre stories and tales and folklore from all of these cool waterfowl hunting destinations, some that waterfowl hunters probably hunt at on a regular basis. And what we're going to do here with this show is we wanted Kyle and Cam to come on and just basically have like a natural reaction and discuss some of these locations. I know Kyle mentioned that he has family from where some- one of them, one of these locations, and so he's very in tune to that. They've heard of stories from all these, so I'm excited to get their reaction, and of course, Mike's as well. Mike Brasher: So… I'm gonna debunk everything. That's my role here, right? Chris Jennings: Yeah. Mike Brasher: Because I wasn't on last year's episode. Yes, he's gonna… He's here to debunk. We're gonna- we're gonna look for the facts. Chris Jennings: Yeah, the Dr. Mike Brasher is here to point out… He's gonna say, this is not factual. So, if he starts into that, let's just ignore him, guys. We'll just disregard him. You'll mute your microphone. Kyle, you kind of mentioned that you did have some experience with some of these, but as a whole, you know, you guys have probably covered so many spooky destinations. Are there any of those, obviously, that aren't on this list that jump out to you guys and say, man, we've had 10 different stories about this same location? Cam Hale: Yeah, there's been a plethora of strange sightings in and around the city of Stephenville, Texas. There was a famous case years ago, where over like the period of a couple days, there was a lot of UFO sightings and activity. And, you know, fighter jets were scrambled from nearby Carswell Air Force Base. It's a naval air station now. And there's a lot of people from not just residents in the local area, but farmers, ranchers, police officers, highway patrolmen. A lot of people saw it over the course of a few days. But other than that, there's a lot of strange sightings that go in and around that area of things like Sasquatch and unusual activity. Cattle mutilations, not quite crop circles, but Strange marks left on the ground and you hear this all the time a lot of people I know that are friends of mine They have deer leases and places like that that they hunt in and around the city of Stephenville And there's just a lot of strange happenings, and I don't know what it is about that area But there's certain areas in North America for whatever reason it seems like there's a they're like hotspots There's a lot of activity, and it's not only one solitary. You know type of phenomenon There's lots of strange stuff that happens whether it's ghosts Whether it's strange lights, orbs in the sky, or actual footprints, animals going missing or found dead with puncture marks. Just strange things, but there's like these different hotspots all across the US. And unfortunately, a lot of people hunt in those same exact locations. Chris Jennings: Yeah, I mean, the hunters are, and that kind of points out in this story, that hunters are the people who stumble into, you know, some of these areas, you know, early morning, you know, and they're the ones who are coming back and even sharing these stories about, you know, anything from ghosts to like you mentioned, you know, just really, really strange happenings and all these. So, um, let's go ahead and get the first story. I think we have a little introduction to do to this story first that, uh, we had someone read and then we'll go ahead. and put these stories out, which were written by Mallory Murphy, and also read for the DU Podcast by Mallory Murphy. Mike Brasher: We're gonna keep the lights on here, because I don't want it to get too spooky. Chris Jennings: Oh, yeah. You're already getting scared. Clay Baird: Haunted Hunting Destinations. Here are a few of the spookiest stories from some of the country's top waterfowling destinations by Mallory Murphy. According to legend, ghosts, ghouls, and other mythical creatures that sneak through the early morning gloom will inevitably cross paths with those who spend time in their secluded haunts. As waterfowl hunters, we find ourselves in foggy, damp, eerie conditions that can play tricks on already heightened senses. As a service to Ducks Unlimited members, we looked into reports of paranormal activity in some of the nation's top waterfowl hunting destinations. So you'll be better informed about what might be waiting in the predawn darkness and possibly even verify the unexplained. Listener discretion advised. Mike Brasher: You don't know what the first thing was, it stood out to me. What? I started wondering if there's a technical definition or difference between a ghost, a ghoul, and a goblin. And there is. Chris Jennings: So now you're trying to identify. Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure, yeah. Kyle? Yeah, I was gonna say that's, Cam and Kyle can probably identify that. Kyle Philson: Well, I mean, you're talking about one's physical and one's not necessarily physical. One could possibly be the remains or the leftovers of a human being. One also could be a fey character, a fey creature. Clay Baird: Yeah. Kyle Philson: So it's more of a back and forth. Neither one of them do you really want to bump into. But I guess if you had to take a ghost. Chris Jennings: You would choose the ghost over the ghoul or the goblin? Every time. Kyle Philson: Every time. Every time I'll take the ghost. Cam Hale: And you never see ghosts in the daytime. It's always at night, which is odd, right? Why can we never see him during the daytime? They're sleeping. And how come ghosts only come back as humans or you have phantom trains or things like that, but you don't have like ghosts of cats or horses very often. Or just livestock, you know, a cow. You never hear that. Chris Jennings: Yeah, because like no one's scared of a cow. That's true. You've never been scared of a cow? You've not been in the right pasture at the right time to be scared of a cow. That's right. I guess I would probably choose a goblin because I feel like I have a chance to kill it. Yeah. Mike Brasher: So here's the definition if you want to trust the internet. A goblin is a type of monster. They're not human. Usually they're green and small, pretty weak too, but in a swarm, they're dangerous. So if you're just encountering one of these things, a goblin is the way to go. Chris Jennings: I mean, if I'm out duck hunting, I'm, I mean, I'm taking a goblin for sure, because I've got, you know, guns and all kinds of stuff. Mike Brasher: You definitely don't want to encounter a ghoul there. Chris Jennings: No. Undead and bloodthirsty. Kyle Philson: Yeah, I don't want a ghoul. You can't really knock a ghost down with a shotgun. Chris Jennings: That's true, and that's what I was going to say. But the hardest part about a goblin, I would imagine, if you're out duck hunting and you run into one, is then how do you put its little legs on your duck strap to hang it in the blind? You think they're bandaged? Mike Brasher: Just put them in the bag. Chris Jennings: Yeah, just throw them in the bag. Mike Brasher: You do it like a dove hunt. Kyle Philson: You put it in the bag behind your back and then they actually come alive, come out of there again. Chris Jennings: That's great. Yeah, that'd be awesome. All right, let's kick off this first story, Chris. Let's see what we got. Mallori Murphey: The Great Lakes make up the largest freshwater system on the continent. But there are also some of the most mysterious lakes in the country. From ghost ships and lake monsters to urban legends and unexplained phenomena, each lake has its own haunt. Lake Superior is known as one of the most haunted bodies of water in the United States. One stretch of shoreline in Michigan earned the title Graveyard of the Great Lakes, with over 200 shipwrecks in one area. The most famous of the Great Lakes ghost ships is the SS Bannockburn, aka the Flying Dutchman, a Canadian freighter that disappeared in 1902. To this day, it is reported to be sailing the waters of the lakes. Chris Jennings: The Flying Dutchman. What do you guys think? How much experience do you guys have going up or visiting or even hearing stories about the Great Lakes? Kyle Philson: Oh, we've listened to stories about the Great Lakes forever, basically. I mean, it's one of those things, it really is a ship graveyard. People don't realize it that haven't been there. I myself haven't been on the Great Lakes, but when you start researching and looking into it, you realize it's an ocean. It's a freshwater ocean is what you're dealing with. Absolutely. In that whole place. So I can only imagine back in the day, whenever the main mode of transport and transportation was nothing more than ships, what it must have been like around there. So I'm sure the tails, any kind of tail that goes along with it goes right along with that. There's going to be… There's a lot of tragedy around the Great Lakes, a lot of it. And of course, a lot of it is on there. So, I'm not surprised. We've had stories of ghost ships. So, anytime, it's one of my favorite stories is the idea of ghost ships. So, anytime that's out there, I'm like, dude, that's cool. Chris Jennings: Yeah, no, and that's a cool story just in the sense that, you know, what makes the Great Lakes so, I guess, relatable to people is there's so many people that live in and around the Great Lakes now. And so, you've got a lot of eyes on those waters, right? I mean, Mike, what did you kind of take away from that? Mike Brasher: Yeah, I'm kind of trying to, my mind went to, um, to, uh, where Cam was, was talking about just in terms of, I mean, that's the way that people used to get around and still, still there's a lot of transportation, a lot of shipping that, that happens up there. And I've been on the, some of the great lakes and, and the waters can get incredibly, uh, incredibly rough. Um, so how that kind of tragedy at least physically can happen makes a lot of sense. But are there other, uh, other, other things at play, mysterious things at play? We don't know. Kyle Philson: Yeah, absolutely. I always think about what never got reported. Think about the number of shipwrecks or lost ships on the Great Lakes, be it big or small, that were never reported. That back in the day, of course, they had no ship logging the way it was. This little ship just set out to run across there, you know, to pick something up and come back in a few days and never showed back up. So, I mean, people didn't know to look for them by the time it was a week, by the time they were not in port. then you realize like we may have a problem. So there may be endless numbers of spirits that haunt the shores and waters of the Great Lakes. Chris Jennings: Yeah and like even as far back as like you know the fishing and hunting and trappers you know back in the day like you mentioned I mean these guys are going out in probably small boats and there's no tracking there's no you know necessarily like a log that they went out and never came back and you know may never You know, have ever been found or reported even, you know, so that, that's kind of the creepy thing, you know, sitting along the edge of a marsh, uh, along the great lakes and, uh, you know, seeing, seeing a ghost ship or, you know, at right at shooting time, you know, ghost ship cruising through your decoys, that that'd be, uh, that'd be something else. Just like a small boat. Yeah, yeah. Even like a trapper, you know, something like that, paddling through. Kyle Philson: More unsettling than something a lot. Chris Jennings: I think so too. Yeah. Oh, that would, that would. Kyle Philson: Just real quiet. One guy pulling through there and there he is. You're like, what? Mike Brasher: Yeah. That's what I was, what I was trying to think of is that the SS Edmund Fitzgerald. Yeah. That's the, one of the classic. you know, shipwrecks. Yeah, that was Lake Superior. Yeah, that's what I was trying to figure out. That's why I got the little handy computer. There you go. Great song, too. But it is a fantastic song. Fantastic song. Cam Hale: And there's a Lake Michigan monster, too, that's reportedly seen every once in a while, and it's kind of like the Loch Ness monster. That's the way it's described. Chris Jennings: Yeah. Oh, no. I mean, and I'm sure the people who are reporting that are the people who are the watermen who are out there all the time, and they're the ones who are seeing these things. Cam Hale: Right, and there's lots of theories as to what they're seeing. Is it just a sturgeon? Is it something else? But they're like, no, like you said, these are experienced fishermen. And they're like, no, what I saw was not a sturgeon. This thing had a long neck, and it looked like a plesiosaur. And it's been sighted, you know, for over the last couple hundred years. There's always, every once in a while, you'll get somebody. Of course, you never get a good photograph, but people see it. Yeah. You know and then the legend kind of spreads and people tell it to their grandkids and the story just grows and grows and grows and you can go around gas stations around there and You know, they make t-shirts up and everything about it and they make you can get you a koozie with the Lake Michigan monster on it You know, they feed into it kind of like the Mothman and stuff or they have a festival. Mike Brasher: Yeah, sure Yeah, that's one of the a lot of the other stories or at least a couple of the other stories I think have have festivals around some of these, uh, ghosts, ghouls, or goblins. Chris Jennings: Deeply steeped in folklore. It's all fun and games until you see one. That's right. Mike Brasher: Yeah. It's effective marketing. You gotta get, you know, you gotta take advantage of that stuff. Chris Jennings: Tying it all together. All right, Chris, let's cue up one more. Yeah, no bad press for the monsters in Lake Michigan. Mallori Murphey: Lake Huron has the ghost of a young woman who roams the beaches waiting for her sailor to return. Minnie Quay, a Forrester, Michigan resident, met a sailor and gave her heart away. Her parents forbade their relationship, and when the sailor's ship left the harbor, she wasn't allowed to say goodbye. In 1876, she got word that a ship supposedly went down during a storm. She was absolutely devastated and jumped off the town's pier into the freezing lake and took her own life. Mike Brasher: Why is it that so many of these stories have at their center, let's say, a grieving woman that comes back as a ghost or a heartbroken woman? Chris Jennings: Yeah. Yeah. You guys probably get a lot of those. Kyle Philson: There are numerous accounts. I've covered some of the exact same thing in Florida. We've got them. What is it? The lady in white in Lake Dallas? Yeah. We've got endless stories. That literally you could pick and plug into any state around at any lake, anything along the edges of coastlines, all of that. It is wild how that folklore has bled into so many other areas and facets of Americana. that you got Lake Superior, you can drop down into Florida, you can go find them in the Carolinas. All of these exact same stories of a sailor was gone, a woman was in love with him, her father wouldn't let them marry cuz he's a terrible person. She finds out he's dead, she kills herself in some form or fashion, and then now all you see is her roaming the beaches at night. always looking for her lost love. That story can be retold in any coastal town around the US. It almost seems like it. And to be honest, you have to look at it two sides of either coin of it. You have to look at it this way. Yeah, there's a lot of stories like that. But if each one of you were to start telling stories of people you know that were injured in car accidents, how long could you go? So there's a lot of ships. There's a lot of that. I'm not saying it did happen or didn't. But the fact that that story gets told a lot in the folklore makes sense, because for the time, I'm sure there were a lot of young women heartbroken over sailors back in the day. I mean, it happens now. I'm sure it happened back then. Mike Brasher: Probably more so. And what is that saying? Hell hath no fury. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Maybe there's an element of truth to it. That's right. Facts. Kyle Philson: Yeah. So there is, it's, it's, it is wild though how many of those stories are cookie cutters from other areas, but it's still all that unsettling and it doesn't, it doesn't take away, right? I'm not minimizing anything of each story. It is just like, I don't know if it's more or less believable when you start looking at it like that to where like all of these stories happen. Then you get people that have these sightings that report seeing these specters on the beach or wherever it's at. And you're kind of like, all right, well, I mean, 200 miles north of here, they have the exact same thing, down in Texas they have. It's strange that it's that way around it, but it makes sense. Mike Brasher: What's going to be interesting is if we fast forward about 20 years, and Chris, you know how the women in waterfowl hunting is a growing, the women segment of the waterfowl hunting community is one of the fastest growing. So, what happens in 20, 30 years? Are the women going to be, women hunters, going to be as likely to see these female apparitions, female ghosts and ghouls as male hunters? Yes. That's going to be interesting to reflect on. You think so? Kyle Philson: Yeah, lots of times women are a little more attuned to the strangeness, to the weird things that go on. We've met people that are definitely tuned differently than everyone else. And it's, you're a doctor, I mean, you understand. Look, I'm colorblind. We all have the exact same pair of eyes. My eyes don't see the same color as yours. So you already have a leg up in perceiving the world that we live in over me because of that. So if there's a possibility there, then there's a possibility of other vibrational changes, maybe. I don't know how it works, that other people seem to be tuned into these things. And women and children seem to be tuned in sometimes more than most men. Mike Brasher: It's another reason to invite a woman hunting with you. They can relate to those ghosts or apparitions and maybe better protect you. Kyle Philson: Or flipside, she feeds you too. Flip side, she's gonna feed you to this monster. Heads up, gentlemen, if you decide to take your partner with you, make sure the partner is happy before you head into the woods. Chris Jennings: Yeah, and when the ghost or ghoul or specter shows up, there's a possibility that she's in on it, so don't forget. Kyle Philson: And then she'll see you later after she's killed you, you'll be able to complain then. Cam Hale: You are right, though. Women are more perceptive, I think. That's why you see more palm readers that are women. You see more tarot card readers that are women. Mediums, things like that. I just think that they're more perceptive than men. Maybe men are just too dumb to realize. Chris Jennings: Yeah, we're just bumbling around not paying attention to what we're doing. Cam Hale: We're there to hunt. We're there to compare who's got the coolest camo, who's got the nicest shotgun, who's got the best trained dog. Check these boots out. Yeah, that's what it's about. You like this camo pattern? It's a fashion show. Yes, and I love it. Chris Jennings: That's great. All right, Chris, let's queue up the next one. Mallori Murphey: Lake Ontario has its own ghost fleet. During the War of 1812, American vessels were stationed on the lake. Due to no wind, they had to stay put overnight. Early the next morning, a squall rushed through the area, taking them by surprise. Two schooners, the Hamilton and the Scourge, capsized and sank in a matter of minutes. Over 50 sailors died in the incident, making it the largest loss of life on the lake during the war. For over 200 years, people have shared the tales of soldiers that emerge out of the fog on cold nights. Chris Jennings: There we go, adding in the fog. We really haven't mentioned that. I think last year when we did ours, we had a lot of references to the fog and you guys had some really cool insights. But, I mean, if I'm out there in Lake Ontario, you know, setting a diver's line. I don't want any part of that. And all of a sudden you look up and there's like two or three schooners coming out of the fog. Yeah. Mike Brasher: ghostly military personnel? No, I don't want to be part of that. Kyle Philson: You're from the back of the duck boat. Chris Jennings: Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, you guys explained that last time, but maybe for some listeners who didn't listen to that episode, what is, you know, we talk about things coming out of the fog all the time, and you guys both had really good kind of explanations for that when we talked about it. Share with us that, you know, your guys' thought on the fog and why people always see things there. Cam Hale: I don't know, but it does seem to, it's not just a movie effect that they use in horror films and stuff. There really does seem to be something different about the fog and sightings of the paranormal. I remember we had a listener call in and talk to us. He was in the Navy. I don't remember what the exact position is called, but his job was the guy with the big giant binoculars that was searching the horizon, scanning all the time for other ships or anything that's around. And he said that one morning, it wasn't just him, but him and a couple of different guys, there was a fog rolling in almost out of nowhere, came in really quickly. And he said, the fog rolled in, the ocean was really calm that day, like glass, like you've ever been on a lake and it's just so calm. You could slalom ski like a champ on it. I mean, it was just perfect. And he said everything got real quiet and there all of a sudden he saw something in the fog. And when he pulled up his binoculars and was looking, he said it looked like an ancient Chinese sailing ship from like the 16th century. I mean, impossibly old. Couldn't believe what he was looking at. He passed the binoculars to some other guys. They saw it too. They didn't see anybody on the deck. They didn't see any people, but it looked like an ancient Chinese pirate ship. And he said that it just went back into the fog. And about 30 minutes later, the fog cleared and they never saw it again. And he said, there was no breeze out there. So even when the fog cleared a ship like that, that was that close to them, it wouldn't have been able to go off the horizon. They would have been able to see it and there was no ship there. And that's just one case. We have lots of people that ride in that are hunting. And they'll be in their deer stand or they'll be in their ladder stand or they'll be in a pop-up blind or something. And All of a sudden, the forest will go quiet. They won't hear any insects, no more birds. And then a fog will roll in. And they don't necessarily see things, but it's like the mood changes. You can almost feel it. It's palpable. Something is different. And I think in those situations, it's almost like time stops for people. And that's when people start having some strange experiences. They might see orbs. They might hear strange things, wood knocks. You're probably just your imagination getting out of hand, but the fog does seem to cause strange things to happen, and we really don't know why. Kyle Philson: What he's referring to also is what's known in the paranormal world as the Oz effect, like Wizard of Oz, and it's the silencing in the woods like that. It's when everything goes quiet, and it's extremely abnormal. to where there's nothing. And that fog or the mist almost seems to not only just bring it on, but it seems to be the veil of where it's the thinnest. To where the strangest things will happen in and around that area. It's funny that Stephen King decided to write a book about it several years ago. I mean, there's something to it whenever these creepy stories. And like he's pointed out, there's a lot of stories on the lakes to where that fog will come rolling in. and then something appears out of it, almost like it is the carrier for that. So I don't know, but it is extremely unsettling. Heads up again, folks, if the fog's rolling in, you might wanna go back up. You might wanna be like, hey, look, I'm gonna bounce. I'll come back when it's sunny. Mike Brasher: The other thing about fog is that it obscures the vision of pretty much like obviously of all people, but of animals as well. You think there are some animals that have night vision, that can see really well at night. But you have, and I'm not, this is not my area of specialty, but you have to think that their ability to see and perceive, even at night when the fog rolls in, is limited as well. And so it is this universally impairing sort of physical presence that probably adds to the unease. Kyle Philson: And that's what gives evil a chance to hunt in it, is it's not impaired by it. Cam Hale: Well, and I think you're right. The animal's vision and everything is impaired. That's why when a thick fog rolls in, it's like all the creatures, they stop moving. Everything just beds down, quits moving. You don't want to bump into something. They're just as freaked out as you are, right? Mike Brasher: Except for those that are able to detect by way of heat signature, let's say by snakes or something like that. Chris Jennings: Oh, yeah. That's why the creepy crawlies, they're still alive. And T-Rex. And T-Rex. And the Predator. Goblet-bait Predator. The Predator, yeah. That's a good one. Messing around with the Glimmer Man. Yeah. All right, Chris, let's queue up the next one. Mallori Murphey: The Jersey Devil, or Leeds Devil as locals call it, has been roaming the Pine Barrens of South Jersey since at least 1735. This tell us many versions, but the following is the most popular. Legend has it that Pine Barren resident Jane Leeds, or Mother Leeds, discovered she was with Childe for the 13th time. She cursed the Childe in frustration and suggested that this one may be the devil. When the Childe was born when Storm United transformed into a horrible, elongated creature with red eyes. bat-like wings, a goat or horse-like head, cloven feet, and a forked tail. Mother Leigh's confined her child until it escaped up the chimney and off into the swamps it went. For centuries, the Jersey Devil menaced townspeople, harmed livestock, and haunted the surrounding wetlands. People still report seeing strange things and hearing an unexplained blood-curling, screech-like sound coming from the Pinelands. Chris Jennings: Kyle, I'm going to let you start out with this one with you being family from New Jersey and having that experience. I know you've heard this story and I'm sure you probably have a personal experience about it. Kyle Philson: Kyle's mom cussed him just like Miss Leeds did. He's been cursed. Chris Jennings: Does he have a forked tail? Kyle Philson: I'll never tell. Cam Hale: Yeah, this was a story, this was probably one of my earliest memories as a kid. My whole family's from New Jersey, and I'd spend a lot of time up there. And yeah, the Jersey Devil was something they used to warn me and my brother and cousins and stuff about when we were little kids, if we wanted to go play in the woods, as we did, that, you know, you got to be careful, the Jersey Devil's out there. And they would describe it much like Mallory did, is like, you know, it was this bat-winged thing with a goat's head or horse's head. It sucked the blood out of you, and did all types of things, cloven hooved feet. And yeah, in Southern New Jersey, there's a vast area. That's what most people don't think. When they think of New Jersey, they think of like the Sopranos and stuff around New York City. But the southern part, there's a lot of wilderness out there. And in South Jersey, they're the Pine Barrens. It's nothing but miles and miles of dense forest with just fire roads cut through it. And there's a lot of marshes and stuff down there. I think they export like the most amount of cranberries comes out of Southern New Jersey. But in and around those areas is where this legend started. And I have an uncle. Now, I don't know if he was just messing with me as a kid, but he swears that he was out hunting one time and he had an experience with the Jersey Devil. And since that happened, he really did stop hunting. in that area. So I don't know if it was just convenience or he just got bored and then decided to do something else. But there for a long time, he never went out there anymore and he swears he saw something. And he was a guy that I never remembered telling tall tales. He was a Vietnam War veteran. I mean, he was just a really honest stand up guy, still is. But yeah, he was spooked by something and he never would really divulge as I got older, I was kind of interested in it. He never really wanted to talk about it too much, but I definitely think he saw something. And we say this on our show all the time is whether someone really experienced something or they think they did, the effect on them is exactly the same. So whether they saw a ghost or they just think they saw a ghost, they walk away from it having the same impact on their life. And I can definitely say that he is not alone. with people that are affected by seeing something strange in southern New Jersey. There's lots of websites you can go on, on the internet, and you can find, even to this day, people, they take weird, strange photographs of footprints in the area. They claim that they hear things at night. It's a legend that is unique because there's a lot of stories all over North America, but the Jersey Devil seems to be very unique to that area. In fact, their hockey team is the Jersey Devil, so it's imprinted on everyone in the area. Chris Jennings: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of a folklore story that made it mainstream. You know, that's a good example of one. Mike Brasher: And this one, so we were walking down here to the studio earlier this morning and Chris asked me if I listened to these and I said, yeah, listen to them. I even did some research on them. So I looked into this one. This one was really cool because it is, I don't remember if it was back in the early 1900s or 1800s, I think early 1900s. They actually brought in some scientists to try to investigate this, to see if it was in fact real. Maybe it had to be the 1800s. Anyway, one of those early centuries. And the best they could figure, they could not document any kind of physical evidence, not surprising if you're dealing with one of these, you know, kind of ghostly creatures or something, but could not document any physical evidence. It was interesting, given some of the stories of what people described, there was some speculation that maybe what they were seeing was a sandhill crane that was exiting and flying, you know, with the large wings, kind of ungainly type of bird. Chris Jennings: Yeah, that's interesting. But I think, you know, even last time we did the show with Kyle and Cam, we had a conversation about, you know, it's hard to believe some of these tales, but if everyone's saying the same thing, and these people don't know each other, you know, it's possible, you know, it kind of opens your eyes a little more to be like, man, this is the same story from a hundred different people, the same wings and you know, hooved feet and, you know, tail and, you know, that kind of, you guys probably run into that a lot with all the different stories that you guys do. It's just the consistency of the story that makes you like, well, man, how did that person see that if it's the exact same thing? Kyle Philson: And it is odd. Yeah, you're correct. And it's strange because there's a lot of times that the people that will report seeing them, maybe it didn't happen to them, it happened to their grandparents and their grandparents saw something or dealt with and never told anybody. Accept their children and then their children relays it to their grandchildren and it's not until the grandchild Approaches the grandparent and is like would you share it with me that that story even gets shared? We come across a lot of them where people are like look this didn't happen to me But it happened to my grandmother it happened to my grandfather and you know You got to think about given our age and we look at like our grandparents now, of course have passed several years ago But as you get older and see that, you realize that their age and their era or their whatever genre of what they grew up in, their generation, they didn't share things like that. They weren't as open. None of this stuff was really talked about. That's what, if anything, that podcasts have helped along, it's to give people a platform. And it's good or bad. Yeah, you're going to get those that make up stories and all that, but then you're going to get those that had something real happen to them that they want to share as well. So it kind of opens that ground where you find more of the stories. But it is interesting. Cam Hale: I was gonna say, what's interesting too with the Jersey Devil is it comes in flaps and waves. There'll be a period where there's numerous sightings and then there won't be any for ten years and then it'll pop back up. I remember that even in the 1960s, there was a huge flap where for a period of a couple weeks, lots of people claimed that they heard strange sounds. In fact, that the local police department would go around and they would nail up signs all over saying that the Jersey Devil is nothing but a hoax. But this didn't do anything to deter the people in the sightings. They think that they were just doing that to put people at ease. Because what happened is people started flocking to Southern New Jersey to see if they could find it. In fact, one of the guys, I'm trying to remember his name, I think his name was Harry Hunt. And he owned the Hunt Brothers Circus, which was like a traveling circus back then. And he was offering $100,000 to anyone who could capture the Jersey Devil. He was wanting to buy it and put it in one of his sideshows. Mike Brasher: And then that and I read that and I read about that and that money is the money is on it remains unclaimed So if you're listening to this and you're looking for that, you know for a quick ten thousand or hundred thousand dollars Go find found the Jersey Devil. They'll give you 10k. Yeah I'm not sure if you probably needs to be more than 10k right now. Kyle Philson: We need to adjust for inflation I'm not selling the Jersey Devil for less pain Chris Jennings: I'm not doing it. It's the Jersey Devil. I know what I got. That's right. Mike Brasher: And you gotta think about how they've commercialized it, because this is another one for which there are numerous festivals. The Jersey Devil Fable Festival is one I just looked up. So yeah, if you get this demon, this devil, it's worth way more than $10,000 right now. Kyle Philson: And all jokes aside, if y'all really want to go have some fun, go attend some of those festivals. They are a good time. You get to see all kinds of fun stuff. They'll have books. It's great. It really is a good time. Chris Jennings: Do you guys do a lot of those festivals? I'm just curious. Kyle Philson: We haven't, but the ones that we've been to, now, of course, we have friends that that's what they are, as authors, they go and they go to every one of them and set up and all that stuff and we talk to them. But the few of the conferences and things we've been to is, it's a blast. It's a blast to get to hang out and meet. Of course, it's like anything else, but when you get there, it is a good time to get to learn and listen. And the real key for me is, as y'all are talking with these sightings, when you get to stand across from the person that had this sighting or that's relaying it to you, it's different. when you get to where you can tell like this person might be full of it, or this person knows something happened to them. They're not sure what it is, but they know something happened. Cam Hale: And I don't know about you, I've seen Sand Hill Cranes before that doesn't look like a sick Paul Hovind. But what about at night? What if it's at the night, at night in the fog? Mike Brasher: In the fog, you have all of those elements, you know. And maybe you're colorblind, you know, it's… No. Chris Jennings: I mean, I guess it's possible. No. I don't know. I've been scared to death by some blue herons. Kyle Philson: A crane? Chris Jennings: Yeah. No, blue heron. You're walking along a rice levee, and that thing jumps up. Give this guy a hug. Yeah, that thing jumps up right next to you. You scare it, and it squawks, and it's like, you know, wingspans are like six, seven feet almost, and it's like… It's a prehistoric looking at… Yeah. Mike Brasher: I've heard of saying a crane's really good to eat. Yes, they are. Absolutely. Yes, they are. Makes you kind of wonder how the Jersey Devil would taste if you're able to bag one of those. Kyle Philson: I'm always down for a little taste testing. Chris Jennings: There's no way I'm eating that thing. I'm selling it. I'm not eating it. Mike Brasher: It's for the fortune. Kyle Philson: Just be like, I tried it. Tried it once. Chris Jennings: I tried the Jersey Devil once. Kept me up late. All right, Chris, let's try one more. Mallori Murphey: Since the 16th century, the Mexican folktale of La Llorona has been a staple in the San Joaquin Valley. This legend has many variations, but the core stays the same. Water and a weeping woman. According to one variation of the story, a woman was so distraught by her unfaithful spouse that she drowned her children in a river and was later so filled with guilt that she decided to end her life. After death, she was cursed and forced to roam the waterways until she found her children. Throughout the area, there have been many reports of unearthly screams and apparitions appearing on foggy nights. Other reports state that people have handprints appear on the windows of their vehicles. Some reports take it a step further and say she comes hurling at vehicles on the road trying to steal children. Maybe the most chilling reports of all come from anglers and hunters who have heard a voice whisper, help me, I can't Then, a woman-like figure appears on top of the water. Chris Jennings: Back to the… It's all the same ingredients. Yep. Back to the same ingredients there of the woman. But I'll be honest, this one's a little bit creepier. Anytime you've involved children, I always feel like it seems to be much creepier. What was your guys' reaction to this one? Kyle Philson: Well, we've heard this story for, I mean, pretty much your whole life here. Because there are a lot of tales along the Rio, all between here and Mexico, of this exact same thing. There are a lot of them. Even, of course, down on the coast, but often there. I remember one that we got a story, this has been several years back, from a fella that worked a ranch out there in Southwest Texas, and claims to have been that exact thing. I don't remember if they were riding around. He was horseback at the time. But I don't remember why they were out in the evening. I don't remember if it was something that happened and something didn't come back or what it was. But he reported hearing something and riding up on a ridge looking off into the river and seeing what he said looked like a white mist. Like if you were to just take like TV static almost and put it in a human form, like a ghostly form, and that that was moving and making some sound along the way. It's not sure what it was, if it was the moaning or what it was, but it was in that area. And it was one of those things he kind of considered that the La Llorona, wasn't sure what it was, could have been anything, but at least it was something like that. It is a very interesting story though, because of like that, it takes place all over the United States. Cam Hale: Yeah, and they're a little bit different each one. I can think of one that takes place, there's an area just outside of San Antonio, Texas, in the areas called Hollering Woman Creek. And it's basically the same kind of story. But this one has it that a pioneer family living near the banks of this creek were attacked by Native Americans. And they killed the woman's husband. And in those days, if you were young in age, a lot of Native Americans would take the children and they would assimilate them into the tribe. Well, the woman didn't want that to happen, so she drowned her children so that they wouldn't be taken. And then it's the same kind of story is where like now if you go down there, you can hear her weeping, people see her, and the tale itself is kind of morphed. So La Lorena takes place in several different places like Kim said along Texas, but your stories of it in California, Arizona. And I think the original story originated in Mexico and I'm not even sure how the what the origin was from the original story, but it's pretty popular down here, especially amongst the Texas and Mexican natives, you know. Chris Jennings: In that area where Mallory's specific story is referenced is in the Central Valley of California, and that is a very, very, I would say, high traffic water fouling area. I mean, there's, Mike, you can probably explain that a little better, but that's an area where there's a lot of people out early in the morning, along the river, you know, it's, there's, there's definitely opportunities for sightings there. But I know one thing, if I'm sitting there in the fog and early morning in the duck blind and I hear somebody whispering like, help me, I can't find him. Mike Brasher: Like, that's pretty creepy. You know, they're not talking about the duck either. Yeah, they're not talking about ducks. Kyle Philson: Tell him to sit down. I'm going to help you retrieve some in a minute and then we'll go look for what you got missing. Cam Hale: And around here, I don't know how it is all over, but around here it's like mothers will use the story of La Llorona to keep their kids in check. Like if you're a naughty kid, La Llorona will come for you. Yeah, don't go to the water. It's funny how many of these creepy stories all talk about you know, keeping kids in line or the, you know, the boogeyman or whatever is going to get you. And that's the way they used to scare kids into doing an act and ride. But some of the stories of Lola Rona, I think it said it originated all the way back to like Aztec times. Like it's been around a long time. It's just taken on different manifestations. Kyle Philson: I want to know where these guys get these sad women. I think if I was dead, my wife would celebrate. You would hear chuckling. Your wife definitely. Yeah, my wife for sure would be like, yeah, I'm glad that's done. Now we have done with that. If I die in a mysterious fashion, don't look into it. Chris Jennings: I deserved it. That's pretty good. Yeah. This one, you know, this one carries that really, like you mentioned, kind of the test of time. And it also falls in line just like, you know, the Great Lakes story with the weeping woman and the weird female, you know, a paranormal activity. Um, very, very interesting. Kyle Philson: And that's something that I bet y'all are going to get a lot of. Being water fowlers, of course, water in the area that you are, you're going to get a ton of those kinds of interactions. of crazy, creepy mists and possible apparitions in and around that water. Cam Hale: Yeah, Chris, I think you were the one that shared with us the story of the man in the mist or whatever. Yeah, the Arkinsonian in the mist. Chris Jennings: Yeah, that's a cool story. Yeah, no, and I've, you know, I shared that on the last episode, or last time we were with you guys, and got a lot of comments from people who were like, yeah, that is… super weird, super creepy, you know, we've talked about it around the office, you know, but it involves all the same ingredients, you know, it was foggy and water and, you know, just, you know, having an apparition kind of show itself right in front of me and other people. I think that what the best part about that story was what there was other people with me. I wasn't the only one that saw it. And so other people can verify like, yeah, that, that definitely happened. So. And you said like the outfit he was wearing, it looked old. Yeah, more like historical waterfowl. It wasn't like a new pair of waders and, you know, it was actually, you know, the old style jackets and like his call lanyard. I remember looking, for some reason, I saw that he had a single lanyard on his neck, but the lanyard wasn't like a newer one that you would have now. It was just like a piece of string or twine with one duck call. And so, you know, back in the day, guys weren't walking around with nine calls on their neck like, like they do now. You know, you got a thousand, $1,500 worth of acrylic duck calls on your neck now. Uh, like you said, it's just to show off, but, um, you know, that really kind of jumped out to me as someone that made that, that potentially was someone from the past. Mike Brasher: It's either that or it's Dale Bordelon walking through. Yeah. Yeah. Kyle Philson: Do you remember if there was any sound at the time you heard all that? Chris Jennings: No, I think I remember it had gotten quiet. And I think remember I mentioned in the story that what was interesting was he, you could barely hear water moving. Like it wasn't like when someone walks in the, in a flooded timber hole, you can hear it. You know, it's very, you know, you can hear somebody coming from a hundred yards. But with this, it was like he was moving, but it was not, you know, it wasn't the same rush and splash of water. It was almost like he was fluid with the water. So it was, you know, I don't know. Kyle Philson: He'd walked that path a thousand times before. Chris Jennings: Yeah, that's exactly right. For centuries. Mm-hmm. Cam Hale: Yeah, that's, that's cool. Chris Jennings: Ah, that's so awesome. Mike Brasher: Yeah, that was a good one. I had somebody not too long ago, uh, bring that up and say, uh, tell me, that was, that was one of their favorite stories on that, uh, on that episode. Chris Jennings: Yeah. We've gotten some emails about that, that, uh, that other people have had similar experiences, you know, as far as, you know, I've seen somebody else out hunting and you walk over there and there's no one there. Kyle Philson: And you're lucky to have that experience. That's, what's cool about it. Chris Jennings: Yeah. No, I'm very, I mean, I talked to my buddy, one of my best friends that I hunt with now, you know, we talk about that quite a bit. And like, after we did that show, you know, he called me, he's like, oh, that's so awesome. You know, that was, that was the wildest, you know, morning of hunting. I don't think, I don't remember if we even shot any ducks, but we have, we'll never forget that day. You know, there's, that's, that's what makes, that's honestly what makes being out and about in the outdoors so awesome. You know, you could, the potential to having some of these experiences. Kyle Philson: And that's going to play on your mind for the rest of your life. In the most inopportune moments of sitting around the house, you're just going to be like, was he real? Yep. Was that a real person? Did that really happen? Did I really see that? Yeah. So it makes it so great. Chris Jennings: Yeah. No, I mean, I tell the story all the time and I get goosebumps from it sometimes just telling the story. So that's what, that's what really makes it jump out to me. All right, Chris, let's do one more. Mallori Murphey: As you travel through southern Louisiana, be aware that even some of the roads are haunted. Two roads on which you should be vigilant while traveling are Bayou Salie Road and Borg La Rose Highway. Bayou Salie Road, or Louisiana Highway 57, connects Dulac to Kokodri. Legend has it that a man is seen hitchhiking by the side of the road. If you stop to pick him up, he'll offer you a trade, a passenger or a soul for a treasure. Borg-LaRose Highway, or LA-24, is a sparsely populated area surrounded by bayous, cane fields, and swamps. This road has a reputation for being one of the most haunted roads in the state. The tale of the Rougarou begins here. The Rougarou, a Cajun monster that resembles a werewolf, has occupied the wetlands near this highway since the 18th century. According to legend, it's a dangerous creature known for attacking livestock and humans. It can even curse those who see it, leading to a life of misfortune. The only way to protect yourself from the Rougarou is to have a piece of silver, which repels the creature, or have 13 pennies in your pocket, because it can't count past 12. Wow. Chris Jennings: All right. So we've got two different stories there, you know, that the, the hitchhiker and then you go to the Rougarou. Now I've always heard about the Rougarou. Uh, I've spent quite a bit of time down in South Louisiana. Um, and some of these places like these roads, they're, they're pretty creepy on their own if you're not from their experience. But, uh, have you got, do you guys have a lot of stories from South Louisiana? I'm sure that there's probably, yeah, that's probably kind of a, a hotbed for some of these stories. Kyle Philson: Anytime you get out in those swamps, things start getting wild. And like you said, you've been down through there. We had about 25 years ago, maybe a little bit longer than that, my wife's aunt and uncle lived. in a little place called Cameron Parish, Louisiana, which is deep down there. And then we drove up to Lake Charles. And I remember driving along laughing to myself because there was no shoulders. There was just ditches full of water and alligators. And that was it. And I was because you would drive along and see their eyes, you know, like we're worried about hitting deer. You got to worry about running over alligators down there. And I just remember thinking to myself at the time is like, how many people could get lost out here? And you would never know it. Like literally, I mean, you could wreck your car. You didn't know what you might be out there for a hot minute before anybody came along after. So the idea of these hitchhikers not being something spectral or not being something is evil isn't really a shocker. is what moves around out there. Chris Jennings: Yeah, I mean that can be, I know Mike lived down there for quite some time, so you've probably heard all kinds of different. Mike Brasher: The story of the Rougarou is legendary. Yeah. I mean, to state the obvious, but it was, it is one of the most, I would say, commercialized legends out there, probably rivaling the New Jersey Devil. Uh, there is a, there's a rum factory or rum distillery that I think their name is, is something to do with, with Rougarou. Um, I was actually on one of those roads or right near one of those roads in that story two weeks ago, Bayou Salie Road. Um, where it comes out to, um, well, it comes out to a little place called, uh, Cecil's La Perouse Grocery. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's kind of the end of, uh, you know, I saw a hitchhiker. It was not on that road, but it was somewhere in South Louisiana. I make it a habit of not picking up hitchhikers. I'm very glad I didn't now, after listening. Kyle Philson: I was going to say, being that we don't hear the rest of the story, we know what kind of person he is. Mike Brasher: That's right. But yeah, the Rougarou is one that you'd heard so much about. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's right. Yeah. A lot of people will at me every, every so often we'd get a photo. Uh, it would circulate sometimes through our, our DU staff of this weird looking creature. It would turn out to be the sort of a hairless coyote, but you know, it was always that the chupacabra. Yeah. Chris Jennings: I was going to say for you guys in Texas. Yeah. Yeah. Mike Brasher: Interestingly, I saw something online, like, that's the great thing about the internet. You can find all sorts of weird ideas and people are having fun with all sorts of stories. It created a bracket, you know, pairing up different ghosts or creepy legends. The Rougarou was paired with Chupacabra. Who do you think won? I'm going Chupacabra. Cam Hale: I'm going Rougarou. Rougarou. Yeah, I'm going Rougarou. Yeah, they're pretty tough. Rougarou. You know, I think it was inspired by like a curse that like, you know, a voodoo priest put on somebody in New Orleans. I think that's how it started. And then I remember in the intro, they're talking about the 13 coins. You can keep 13 coins in your pocket. That's how I confused Cal. I was always told that it doesn't have to be coins. But if you want, if you're afraid of the Rougarou, you would put 13 objects, small objects by your door. And for whatever reason, the Rougarou can't pass 12. You put 13 objects, it'll perplex it till the sun comes up and then you'll be protected. That's what we were told as a kid. But in addition to the ghost hitchhiker and the Rougarou, there's also the Honey Island swamp monster. which is Louisiana's version of Bigfoot. And I receive a lot of stories of hunters in Louisiana who have run-ins with Bigfoot more than I do the Rougarou or Dogman or whatever it goes by now. But when you think about where the sightings are taking place, If there is a creature out there, that's a really good place for it to be in because it is hard to get through, right? Especially on foot. And there's just all types of critters. So I'm not saying that there is one, but if there is, that's a really good spot to hang out. Yeah. Kyle Philson: And it's also got good food down there. Let's not kid around. Mike Brasher: We were in Lafayette, I don't know, when we were living there seven or eight years ago, and there was an escaped convict, and that escaped convict tried to evade police by hiding out in the Atchafalaya Basin. That dude didn't last very long. He was trying to get out of there. It was not the place to be. Chris Jennings: He's like, I changed my mind. That's right. Mike Brasher: Here I am over here. Y'all come get me. Chris Jennings: Sorry about that. Yeah, between the gators and the mosquitoes, I wouldn't even worry about the roo-roo out there. Kyle Philson: Mosquitoes got me. I'm enough with that. I don't need anything else. Mosquitoes get up, I'm like, yeah, just get me back away from these things. It's also like Louisiana is one of those places that seems to have some sort of unique energy to it. I don't know if it's because like, when you go to New Orleans, it feels that way. Anytime you're in there, I don't know what it is about all that area, but there is an uneasiness when you get out into them swamps. I'm like, no, we're not supposed to be there. Chris Jennings: Yeah, and what's interesting about Louisiana too, and some of these stories and sightings and the folklore of it, is a lot of where these stories are coming from. Also, if you were to compare that to data that DU has that shows basically per hunter per day concentrations of waterfowl hunters, they're some of the most concentrated areas where there's more duck hunters in some of those parishes than almost anywhere in the United States. So, you think, you know, early morning time frames, you've got a lot of people traveling the roads. You've got a lot of people out in the marsh. You know, you've got, there's a lot of eyes out there to potentially, you know, verify or run into and, and really even expand on these stories for, you know, years and years and years. So, I think that's a cool correlation. Yeah. Kyle Philson: And let me ask you this. Do you ever lose ducks? Like, let's say while you're out there, you hit one and then now you can't find it. Chris Jennings: It does happen, yes. Kyle Philson: So you take the abnormal amount of hunters in that area, occasionally losing animals, seems to me it's an opportune place for anything to feed. Anything's going to be able to go in there. They're going to hear the gunfire. Look at Kodiak Island. You land on Kodiak Island, touch a rifle off, brown bear coming. That's what's happening. They know it's the dinner bell. If I was some sort of something that didn't want to have to work real hard for my food, I would believe I would go there and just wait. Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. You move in there, you just clean up whatever's left. Chris Jennings: Yeah, so basically you're saying that these, whatever that could be, are actually seeking out hunters in the marsh to get closer to them. Kyle Philson: Yeah, they could be. If it's a physical creature, that's a way for it to feed without putting forth any effort and without putting forth any of its own skin in the game that may get a chance of being seen. They can easily linger in that area till everybody's out of it, move in in the night, however that they wanted to do it. Not to mention you could get into the idea that if they are supernatural or paranormal, then they could be feeding off of energies, which is what we talk about. And what better energy could you feed off of than the joy of having a successful hunt or the disappointment? All these things, you start talking about emotions. If this thing is truly, and I know we're getting out there, but if there is a way, that you could feed on emotions, then, you know, you would want to be around a large group of people. More people, more emotions. More emotions, more food. It's the same thing. Mike Brasher: It sounds a lot like what dolphins do with recreational anglers. They'll follow them, follow the boats. Kyle Philson: Oh, yeah. Mike Brasher: They love the heck out of anglers as well as bald eagles. Bald eagles have adapted to generally what you just described. In certain areas, the discharge of a shotgun or a Basically, a falling duck. It's a free meal. You got to get it before the bald eagle does. And so it's kind of creepy to extend that same type of adaptation to these monsters. Kyle Philson: If it's physical, we kind of have to approach it that way, right? If it's a physical creature, you got to just have to take a look. If it's truly a thing, what's it doing there? It's got to eat. It's got to drink. It's got to sleep. Well, then this is what it would probably be doing there. Because otherwise, you don't hear about highly concentrated areas of hunters, and that's where they have all these sightings of Bigfoot. Bigfoot's nowhere in the picture. You start getting into highly concentrated areas, they're like, we're all hunting in this area and we've never seen anything. Yeah, there might be a reason. Because you see it, there's a chance that it's going to get shot. So it knows to stay away from gunfire. Whereas if you're small enough to live off of whatever the hunter's taken down, then you could move in closer to that area, stay a little bit more. I mean, you talk about any, let's just use a goblin. We were making jokes, but you talk about a goblin. If you're going off the size of a goblin, it's pretty easy to hide compared to an eight foot tall, hairy humanoid. I mean, that's just the way it is. So, I mean, it could be. Cam Hale: You guys have your own Dog Man or Rougarou sightings up there, the Land Between the Lakes. You guys have your own version of the same thing? Chris Jennings: Yes, there is. And it didn't make this story, just mainly because it's… But it's like… I've heard this several different times and it's almost like, it is very similar to the chupacabra or a wolf of some kind. And it's like a, maybe, I think you described it in our last episode, like a dog man up there that's living in the land between the lakes. And that area is super remote. I mean, you go up there, there's, I mean, hundreds of thousands of acres where nobody lives. Cam Hale: I think there's a famous story of some people camping up there in the land between the lakes, like in some RVs, and then they're being terrorized by this werewolf-looking creature, and it, you know, left scratch marks all over the outside of their RV, and things like that. But it's like so many of the other stories. They're similar stories, but just different locations across North America. Chris Jennings: But they're very similar. And do you take that as more of a, you know, a confidence factor and the possibilities? Or, you know what I mean? Or is it like maybe these regions just kind of adapted these stories to fall in line with something like the Chupacabra or the Rougarou? And what's your guys' opinion on that? Kyle Philson: Man, that opens up a whole other can of worms when you start getting into the fact of Because then we're going to have to start getting into, are these things actually flesh and blood? Are what we see in flesh and blood, are they a, like, so they've been known through time as tulpas. So it's like a thought form or a thought process of, I kind of equate it to along the lines of people in prayer. A lot of people believe in mass prayer. They want to get together. They have huge prayer circles, all of this. Well, if you believe that that energy helps and that that is a full blast of good energy, then there is a way that there has to be darker evil energy. There has to be a balance. So if that's a fact, everybody could possibly be putting their energy into, oh my gosh, is this thing real? Could it physically form something? If you can physically feel changes with prayer, then you have to be willing to believe that you could physically feel changes if enough people thought about something that was bad as well as something that was good. So then you start getting into, is this thing real or is this thing an emotional spirit? What is this? And then once you get into that, why is it in that area? Because like Khaled brought up, You start looking at these old folklore stories, a lot of them has to do with curses. It has to do with like possibly voodoo, black magic, they've wronged a shaman, something that brings that on. Now that could be the old way of thinking from past times, several hundred years ago in this area, could have been the way it is from what we've learned now or it could truly have been some sort of black magic, I don't know. So you start getting into it, but certain areas, Like you're talking about the land between the lakes. Certain areas like that fit the story so well that it's almost like, was it there to start with or was it our belief that put it there? Was it our fear of the unknown, just like he talked about a mom's telling their kids these things? Is it the fear of the unknown that caused us to fill in the blanks? Cuz what's worse, the worst thing you could ever get is when one of your partners text you, hey, we need to talk, that's it. That's all you get. If your wife said, we need to talk when you get home, and that's the way it was left, your mind's going to fill in so many blanks. You'll be like, what? I haven't done anything. What? It's the same thing in these dark areas. You see something scary, you initially attach something to it. If you have enough people hearing the story of, let's say, the Rougarou, they get the idea, they start, you could, in theory, form something there. So maybe you give that evil or that darkness or whatever energy or power to where it, there it is. Cam Hale: I mean, think of the old movie. It was literally called Curse of the Werewolf. Yes. And in that film, you know, or that story, you know, the guy did something wrong to the gypsies and they cursed him. In Land of the Lakes, that area between Tennessee and Kentucky, my mind immediately goes to two families that are feuding back in the day and somebody did somebody wrong and they put a curse on them or a hex. and the story's just grown. Kyle Philson: And they talk without their mouth moving. How y'all done? That's just the way it works. Y'all see that? You ask that, you done all right? I mean, it's the talk, that's the way. It's all right, I know it too. My brother-in-law talks just like that. I'll bring him in here. Chris Jennings: Oh, that's great. No, I mean, there's so many different variations of these stories and it's cool to talk about them, but, you know, kind of like we had, we, and we started the show and we said, which one would you rather run into the ghost or the, uh, ghoul or the goblin? So which one of these stories that we went through, uh, was the one that you were most excited about? would be the creepiest for you two. If you guys are sitting out, you know, maybe you're sitting on a, on a little marsh and you're in a canoe paddling in for duck hunt, morning duck hunt, the fog rolls in and which one would you not want to run into? Cam Hale: I would say I would not want to run into the Rougarou or Werewolf or Dogman. To me, that'd be very, very chilling. Now, if I had a choice, I'd like to run into the Man in the Mist like you had, because that just sounds cool. Kyle Philson: Yeah. I would not want to run into the La Llorona. Mike Brasher: That was mine. That was mine. Kyle Philson: That's the one I don't want to bump into. Chris Jennings: I think La Llorona for me, and then also the ghost ships, the two schooners full of military men that, you know… I'd like to see that. …passed away in 1812. I think the creepiness of it, like, I'm confident in my ability to shoot, so like a Rougarou, something like that, I'll take my chances. You can wound it, cripple it, or something like that. Maybe I can just scare it. You're not scaring. the La Llorona or your, you know, so that's, that's probably the ones for me. Cam Hale: That's the La Llorona for me. If I saw the Ruger, I'd be like the ghost of Mr. Chicken or I'd be just like shaking so bad I wouldn't be able to even get the shot off. Chris Jennings: You'd have buck fever so bad I'd eat you. Mike Brasher: I would hope that I would have had, I would have shot a couple of ducks already and I would have at least tried to kind of throw them out there and say, here, take these, take these, you know? You can't do that with La Llorona. It's like, no, she doesn't care. Kyle Philson: Make an offer. Make some room for the girls. Just leave me alone. Yeah, that's it. It's the La Llorona thing. We used to make jokes about it and we still do is I would always like I would hunt like go out and actively if somebody invited you would go out and want to look for Bigfoot sure. But I would never ghost hunt because you could never tell when the ghost is in the back of your truck. Like you could literally bring something with you and not know it. It could attach itself to you or to somebody with you. Whereas you're going to know if Bigfoot sat in the back of your truck. You're going to know if there's a Rougarou under the seat. You may not know that you picked up, oh, check out this old bottle I found here. That's pretty cool. Well, maybe there was something attached to it. You don't know. With all of this stuff, like, we don't know. There's so many one-offs, but the La Llorona was, is definitely the top. Cam Hale: Yeah, I don't mess with spirits. I don't mess with Ouija boards, spirit boards. I don't like to go hunting. I don't, I don't need that in my life, so. Chris Jennings: Yeah, you don't need to take a chance of bringing something home, that's for sure. Mike Brasher: No, no, no. My question to you guys, are you able to turn these thoughts off when you go into the woods early in the morning and it's foggy? Absolutely not. Chris Jennings: You terrify yourself. Cam Hale: Yes. Yeah, we just released an episode last week where I talk about that very thing, that like, you know, I'll read all these stories and I hear from listeners and stuff, and I mean, I can't help it. When I'm sitting there alone in the woods, in the dark, it starts freaking me out. And just simple sounds of a squirrel or an armadillo or something, I'm like, what is that? And I have to tell myself, stop, stop. You're overreacting. But yeah, it does affect me. I'm not going to lie. Kyle Philson: When you're walking out without the light on, you know, it's just enough moonlight to make out the trail. And you're like, yeah, I got about a mile to get back to the truck. This ought to be fun. You just stroll in the dark, carrying a recurve. You're like, yeah, this is brilliant. It's what I'm doing here. Mike Brasher: Yeah. So that's a good leads me to an important question. Are you. less at ease when you're going out and it's dark, when you're going out in the morning, or when you're coming back, when you're coming out of the field and dark is descending upon you? You know, that's funny. Cam Hale: I think I like being in the stand in the evening more than I like going to the stand in the morning. I think, I don't know why, walking into the woods when it's already been dark for hours freaks me out a little bit more than if it was just daylight 40 minutes ago. I don't know why, because it makes no sense. Kyle Philson: I think it's opposite for me. I think it's… I think in the evening, it's worse because this is ridiculous. In the mornings, Rougarou's gotta sleep in, right? He's had a hard night of terrorizing people and stealing chickens, whatever Rougarou's do in the evening, I don't know. But whatever they got going on, they've had a hard night of it. I like to think when I get out there early in the mornings, they're already, you're passing them, right? The roommate, there's my roommate's going to bed as I'm going to work. That's kind of the way I feel, but at night, I feel like everything's just getting up and getting stirring. Like, oh, all right, sunset. All right, I might bump into something while I'm milling around. Cam Hale: Now you just ruined my evening hunt. Mike Brasher: And so here's the other thing, is at night, you've got what, seven, eight, nine more hours of dark? Whenever you're going out the first thing in the morning, you can at least think to yourself, all right, well, I only have to make it through another hour, two hours, whatever the case may be. half hour, you know, when you hear that strange noise over in the woods. But if you hear that noise whenever you're walking out, yeah. And you know that roo-ga-roo or whatever it is, it's just woken up, it's hungry, it's sharp, and you're… Ted is coffee. Yeah. Cam Hale: And that's looking for you. Yeah, I mean, a perfect example, we were, me and Kim were mule deer hunting in Arizona three years ago, and we had hiked way up in the woods, and we were sleeping in our hammocks. We each had our own hammock. And there was one night we went to bed about 10 o'clock, and I kept hearing this sound, and I was like, stop it, you're freaking, there's nothing out there. Because there's a legend of a monster out there called the Mogollon monster, and it's their version of a Sasquatch or Bigfoot. And I'd roll over and try to go to sleep, and 10 minutes later, I'd hear something moving through our camp. And I kept unzipping the hammock and looking out, and it wasn't until I did that about seven times that I realized It was my beard rubbing on the nylon of the hammock. And it was me the whole time that was making the sound. And then he just had to lay there in the moonlight and be like, I'm an idiot. And then, you know, a year later, then I set it on the air. But sometimes it's just little things like that. Mike Brasher: It freaks you out. That's why I don't, that's why I don't grow a beard. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure. Kyle Philson: That's why? That's entirely it. Mike Brasher: I tried it one time, didn't work for me. And so, yeah, it freaked me out. Chris Jennings: Good move. That way you don't freak yourself out. Good move. That's right. That was, that's the strategy behind that. Kyle Philson: So, yeah, no, I mean, that's… I looked on his face and he was telling me that it was hilarious that next morning. I bet. He said, I thought somebody was going to get me. Chris Jennings: Well, I just like the fact that you did the research, like, you guys are going, like, planning a trip, and this is something that, you know, waterfowl hunters should do. This would be great. Um, you know, if you're planning a trip, you know, you guys are going out to Arizona, you're going mule deer hunting someplace you probably not had a whole lot of experience hunting. And the first thing you do, Kyle, is research the mountain monsters that live up there. Like, yeah. Cam Hale: Oh yeah. There was like 13 sightings, not very far from where we're at. And of course I brought that up, you know, over dinner one night. Chris Jennings: Yeah, as you're sitting around a campfire. Cam Hale: Yeah. Kyle Philson: Oh yeah, while you're glassing for bucks, you're glassing for the monster too. You're like, come on, somebody show yourself. I urge everyone, everyone listening, I urge anytime you have a hunting trip planned, do it. If nothing else, it's just for fun. Look up the folklore and the creepiness of the area that you're going to hunt. Mike Brasher: It's a good time. And so then do you adjust your cartridge selection or your rifle selection to kind of match both the game? Chris Jennings: No, we were still carrying recurve. Okay. Both carrying recurve, I suppose. Kyle Philson: Yeah, we both had our recurve. Yeah. No, we're good. Yeah. You can at least, like, get away, poking it at them or whatnot as they close in on you. Also, it's easy to run. Cam Hale: You can just throw it and run, yeah. Oh, I was thinking about that while in the hammock before I determined it was myself making the noise. It's like, why did I stop rifle hunting again? Like, these thoughts come to your mind, you know? And I'm like, well, now I'm five miles away from the nearest road. Kyle Philson: Wake up, Kyle's gone. He left you out there. Chris Jennings: He just left you for the monster. He used you as bait. Cam Hale: Yeah, right? Chris Jennings: That'd be great. Well, this has been fantastic. Kyle Philson: Oh, it's always fun to chat with you guys. Chris Jennings: Yeah, it's been great. We've been able to share some really good stories, some, uh, definitely places, really, really popular waterfowling destinations where there are going to be, and probably are even this morning, especially up around the great lakes. Uh, the hunting's getting really good up there right now. And I know that, you know, the. The guys who do it are doing it in the fog and in the, you know, early morning hours. And so I'm sure that hopefully we didn't scare anyone away from a hunt here in the next couple of weeks, but… No, not scare them away, but just kind of give them a little bit more, a few more things to be excited about. Yeah. To look for. Yeah. So anything else guys that you guys might have, uh, you know, one thing that our listeners can do is they can send their stories if they have any stories to dupodcasts at ducks.org. And if you do that, we will send it over to the expanded perspectives podcast and be sure to go over and check out their stuff. They have some great stories and like both of them, they're both big hunters. So, you know, they know that this is, you know, there's a relationship there with, You know, hunters being outdoors and it just happens. Did you guys have any other stories that you guys might want to share before we hop off? Kyle Philson: I don't have anything. I don't have anything crazy. Now, we've gotten a few that's coming in, but usually it picks up. We start getting a bunch from hunters by the time raffle season picks up when you got more guys out there doing stuff. And that's whenever you find things like that, because most of the guys, if anything happens to a bow hunter, it happens, you know, sub 30 yards. So you really don't want to make, I think I even told this story. There was an old story going around in Arkansas. We'd covered it years ago, and I might've talked about it where a fellow was in a lock on stand bow hunting. And claims he thought that he had, I believe he had paddled in a canoe, got out and made his way up into some brush, got up in a tree, hung his, had his stand hung and all this, had been hunting this area. And he says that while he was sitting in the stand, he heard what he thought was cows coming behind him, which he couldn't believe all the way out there. He's like, there's not supposed to be any cattle out here. I don't know what's going on. Said as the sound got closer and all that, then he started seeing this large figure. So all he is is sitting in this stand, got his bow out, all of this stuff's not daylight yet. It was in the morning before daylight. Whatever it is comes in, he smells this smell. This thing walks around the tree beside him as he's up in it, sees the broadhead with the moonlight reflecting off of it, the way it's shiny on the broadhead's razor edge. And he said, what looked like a first baseman's mitt reached up and grabbed the broadhead. just a giant hand. As it grabs the broadhead, it starts squalling. This thing roars, lets it go, and takes off. Says as it takes off, he witnesses, I believe, at least two others that were with it of this thing runs off. He said as soon as this thing got out of sight where he knew it was good and gone, he got down and left. That's it. I don't know what this is, but that's it. Done. Chris Jennings: No, I was gonna say that just sounds like, you know, either one of Bigfoot, stipe, run-in, or potentially a giant. Yeah. Cam Hale: Kyle's a big fan of giants. Yeah, yeah, I am. One of the crazy stories I heard has nothing to do with paranormal, but a guy here in Texas was hunting, and he said one morning, as he was looking around right by his deer stand, a full-size Bengal tiger come walking out of the woods. Wow. He was in a tripod bow hunt. And he said he was watching it with his binoculars for 10 minutes. And he called his friend to come get him because he was too scared to get out of the tripod and walk. back to his pickup truck because there was a full-size tiger. And the only thing they can think of is somebody, because there's a lot of people that own pet tigers in Texas for whatever reason, I guess somebody's got loose and it was out there on his place. But I wouldn't hunt out there either. I mean, that's a large cat. Talk about ruining your day. Chris Jennings: Yeah. Yeah, that would be awful seeing a tiger. Oh my gosh. But you guys have all kinds of strange creatures in Texas now, so that it wouldn't be surprising that it's Texas. Oh, yeah. Kyle Philson: Yeah, somebody's bought it and it's probably loose around here somewhere. Yeah. It'll get shot on somebody else's land. Mike Brasher: You got to introduce those exotic predators, take care of those exotic ungulates that are all over the place. Cam Hale: We've had numerous people ride in with sightings of like hyenas. Oh, yeah. In Texas, in the wild, just while they're out hunting. Chris Jennings: Wow. Those are no joke either. You don't really want to mess with any of those. Mike Brasher: That kind of sounds like a chupacabra or something. Chris Jennings: Yeah, the famous chupacabra. Kyle Philson: We'll eat it. Somebody will shoot one, we'll eat that hyena. Chris Jennings: We're going to eat it. Cook some gumbo. Cook some rice. Kyle Philson: Cook it with the Jersey devil. He's had enough time down there in Louisiana. Cajuns will eat anything, and it don't even have to be dead. It can just be moving slow, and they will catch it and cook it, and it will be amazing. Chris Jennings: Yeah, there's probably a recipe for Rougarou, because one of them has eaten a Rougarou at some point in time. Kyle Philson: A hundred percent. You have Rougarou and boudin. Rougarou stew. Rougarou stew. Yes. Chris Jennings: Little jambalaya with the rougarou i'll take it awesome. Well, man, this has been fantastic. I appreciate you guys joining us today Um sharing these cool stories, you know, sometimes a little creepy sometimes a little out there, you know non-scientific Expanded perspectives. Mike Brasher: I don't I don't mean to be offensive and suggest that your perspectives aren't scientific, you know, but uh Chris Jennings: They're not. They're not. They're not. Mike is the gatekeeper for scientific data and also the minister of being correct and not wrong. We allowed the door to swing freely. Kyle Philson: Yeah. It's hard to be correct about one-off sightings. Yeah. That's right. That's right. That's the problem. Yeah, it's hard to be. Mike Brasher: That's how we're the sweetest tell stories. It's difficult to be wrong either, you know? True. Yeah. Kyle Philson: It's the beauty of it. It's just one of those things. You're just like, yep, there it is. Well, that's what we got. We move on. Chris Jennings: Well, I appreciate it, guys. And, uh, we'll have to do this again. Maybe do it some other round. Anytime. If we get some stories, like I said, we'll send them up to you. Okay. Kyle Philson: Everybody listening, y'all be careful this year. Have a safe, safe hunting season. Let's make sure that's number one. Absolutely. All of us. We all come back. That's how this works. Absolutely. Mike Brasher: Thank you guys. It was great spending time with you this year. Thank you. Chris Jennings: Yes, thank you. We'll see y'all. I'd like to thank our guests, Kyle Filson and Cam Hill, the host of Expanded Perspectives, for coming on the show today and just talking about some of the things that are a little creepy, a little maybe not so scientific that waterfowl hunters and hunters in general run into. I'd like to thank our producer, Chris Isaac, for putting the show together and getting it out to you, and I'd like to thank you, the listener, for joining us on the DU Podcast and supporting wetlands conservation. Happy Halloween.