Latest / INSPIRE STORY / Episode 17_ What makes you who you are

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Episode 17_ What makes you who you are · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've been doing it, but I just
• 0:23
  can't do it.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: But I haven't been writing it down, which was the
• 0:27
  only point.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: It's the whole point, and the whole point is that
• 0:30
  discipline and like forcing yourself to write it down.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Entire stuff.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Hello and welcome back to the Spire podcast. Today.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: We have with us all three of us guys here today,
• 0:55
  Like I was able to make it out and we
• 0:56
  love it is raining outside. Some of us don't really
• 0:59
  love it. The far love it, Farmers love it. I
• 1:01
  kind of love it.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Plants love it depends.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: Sometimes I love rain, sometimes I don't pretty much.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Never like if you had stuff to do rain, if
• 1:10
  you have nothing to do, rains like nice because it's
• 1:13
  like I have to say.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: If I could like just not care about getting wet,
• 1:17
  get on my bike and go ride through huge puddles
• 1:20
  and just like he in the rain, just like sliding
• 1:22
  and skimming.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: It's like I did that before. It was really fun.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Literally all your face and you're saying that it was priceless.
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: Okay, Well today we'll be talking about identity and things
• 1:37
  related to that, like our identity and what it means
• 1:39
  to be one in the rain or singing in the rain.
• 1:43
  But as with all things, we have been doing this lens.
• 1:47
  We start with this spire stuff, something about spire.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: S p i R.
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: Spiritual, physical, intellectual, relational, emotional.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: You've only been doing it for what four months?
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: The front of it, it's literally up upside down.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, but you can't, I guess you can't.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Must be a bit of a down even if you're
• 2:14
  looking at it straight on. Yeah, it's very upside down,
• 2:18
  even if you're looking at it straight on, like some
• 2:20
  of it.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: I can read it perfectly.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: The word. Yeah, the word that's upside down is right
• 2:25
  side up if you look.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: That's must be in an emotional state. People, we're a.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Little households here.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe we cut all and we restart.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: Let's see what happens.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: Okay, your father, son, Lord be with us this day,
• 2:45
  our father who in heaven they can come, there.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Will be done.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Heaven give us.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Figure as we forget those.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: I hate it when you're praying and it's like I
• 3:05
  feel like I need to like cougher hiccup or.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Something, and it never never come.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I hate that too, It's so rough. I hate it alright.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: So I'm talking literally all the time.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: That's how I feel when he's talking to.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: That was a rough Do you want to retun cut
• 3:31
  out my view?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I won't do it.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: It's good for it's just friendly man. It's it's thick.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: Skin Australian now bro.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Anyway, from my Saturday, for my Saturday inspire, my spiritual
• 3:48
  was trail masked with Father Samson. We went hiking, which
• 3:53
  might be my my physical to hiking at Quiver River
• 3:56
  and then at the end of it, on top of
• 3:58
  a bluff, Father Samson just set up what he has
• 4:02
  a portable like mass stuff, so just like a tiny
• 4:06
  little chalice, a nice little picks to hold hosts that
• 4:10
  he can consecrate, uh A like a corporal thing to
• 4:15
  put on a rock that has a relic in it
• 4:17
  so it's a valid altar. And he keeps vestments in
• 4:23
  like a little bags like travel vestments that are really
• 4:25
  thin so that they can be packed up a little tighter.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: It was amazing, It's beautiful.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: That was so much fun when I got to go
• 4:34
  to that too, because we are like friends and we
• 4:36
  do the same stuff.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know how to tell people things.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: What are you doing on Saturday? Apparently I need to
• 4:48
  add you in in the in the group chat.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: All right, there's a group chat to Oh.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: My gosh, five hundred people in it.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: I asked people.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Really asked about this the other day. I wasn't asking you,
• 5:02
  but I was like, is there not a group chat
• 5:04
  of just a bunch of people that are like our age?
• 5:08
  There are?
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: I don't really know how to get people to go
• 5:12
  to events.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: I don't know how there's so many people in it
• 5:16
  when no one knows about it unless they're in it.
• 5:19
  I'll add you to it today. This is chaotic intro
• 5:22
  to the.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: You know, I know I'm not in the chat.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Comment down. Look, you want to be in the chat.
• 5:30
  You want to be in the group chat? Comment.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: We'll send you a link to the chat. Yeah, okay,
• 5:37
  there's been this has been too much, man, What is your.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: What is your what's your what's your physical?
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: Physical is hiking?
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Great?
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Bringing up the best again?
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Awesome?
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: They do it a bunch, So I'll get you in
• 5:54
  it and the next month or whatnot.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I'll have see what my schedule looks like.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: My intellectuals, I was helping my sister with her physics homework,
• 6:04
  something about rotations.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: My relational I was at that night.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: I was just talking with that about his work and
• 6:13
  he was showing me one of his cases he was doing,
• 6:15
  and so it was cool to just talk to.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Them about that.
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: And then from my evangelical was at the end of
• 6:22
  the a bunch of us were talking about Linton stuff
• 6:25
  and our Linton observances.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: It's like every time the scab heels just.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Poor Salt in that.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: Next, I'm not in many group chats with you, and
• 6:39
  I don't really.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: You're in about every group chat that I'm in. Somehow,
• 6:43
  it's because it's because you've got connections.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: Not in a lot of group chats, then because I'm
• 6:48
  in like hundreds people make.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: What am I supposed to say to that? Oh my god,
• 6:56
  first you diss on Michael, and it's like.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: Oh college, does anybody when so many group chats that
• 7:03
  are like pointless it's just like random this thing or
• 7:06
  that random get together.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: I'm like, why'd you make another group chat for this?
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: Oh that's why you know I'm good?
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Then I'm good.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: A lot of the group chats are meaning pointless things.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, anyway, getting into my spire things. So hopefully
• 7:20
  we don't take up a whole lot of time. I'll
• 7:23
  keep it short for you guys. Uh, let's see, I
• 7:30
  have really not done a good job of writing down
• 7:32
  my spire every day. Gotta be honest, uh, you know.
• 7:35
  But as as in a non ironic way, his power
• 7:43
  is made perfect in weakness, and I am weak and
• 7:47
  I forget to do stuff. But I have been doing
• 7:50
  spire about every day in some way. So what I'm
• 7:53
  gonna do is say what my normal day look like.
• 7:57
  On Monday. Last Monday, I got up and went to church,
• 8:06
  chrip masks across the street, spiritual, most important way I
• 8:09
  could do that, and I had some prayer time later. Physical,
• 8:13
  in my new job, I get to be outside more,
• 8:15
  walking around and putting ladders up and stuff and climbing
• 8:18
  up on a roof. And I got through that and
• 8:21
  actually my forearms were burning. Oh so that was nice.
• 8:24
  From climbing ladders, from carrying ladders and setting them up
• 8:27
  and then taking them down, then setting them up and
• 8:29
  then carrying down. I haven't worked out in a long time,
• 8:32
  like consistently. So yeah, anyway, intellectual, really, let's see what
• 8:39
  was I doing that day. I've been trying to I've
• 8:44
  been trying to learn, so this intellectual and relational kind
• 8:47
  of combines into the same thing. But the new job
• 8:50
  that I do, you have to door knock and you
• 8:53
  basically have to be like, hello, introduce yourself, and blah
• 8:56
  blah blah, and there's a lot of information that you
• 9:00
  need to know so that you can communicate with the person.
• 9:03
  And so I've been trying to learn that information as
• 9:05
  well as learned how to relate to a person that
• 9:08
  I don't already know, which you wouldn't think about it,
• 9:12
  but I was like, I don't really know how you
• 9:14
  just go up to someone and then start a conversation
• 9:17
  like That's always been a daunting thing to me. So
• 9:19
  I've been learning how to do that, and I think
• 9:21
  in a sense that plays into evangelization because a cool
• 9:24
  lesson that I've been learning and that I was learning
• 9:26
  that day when we were doing it, was that ultimately
• 9:29
  you have to remember that you have Christ inside of you,
• 9:33
  and then everyone else that you talk to as Christ
• 9:35
  inside of them, and so you go to love the
• 9:37
  Christ inside of them, and that's what evangelization is. And
• 9:43
  so that's that was my spire.
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: At some point, can you give us tips and sat
• 9:47
  I start a conversation.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: As soon as I figure out how to do that.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, I also have to be honest. I have not
• 9:56
  been good about writing it down in my memory.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: Oh, writing it down the only thing I was good at.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Actually doing the time I'm going to do yesterday, because
• 10:06
  since my memory is bad, that's the closest day of
• 10:08
  the day and I remember or I yeah.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Last week, he did today? By today, I mean the day.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But I was actually doing stuff yeah last week,
• 10:18
  so it made more sense. But yesterday, UH made myself
• 10:24
  give up earlier than usual to go to an earlier
• 10:26
  mass because I didn't want to just sleep in and
• 10:29
  be like, I'll just go to mass wheneber I wake up,
• 10:31
  So I went up to an earlier mass. Discipline, there
• 10:36
  is discipline writing it physical. This is different from what
• 10:41
  my physical usually is, but I'm still going to count it.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: It's seconically. Last night and today I actually got eight
• 10:49
  hours of sleep, which I haven't been doing for a
• 10:51
  long time.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Because usually caffeine.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: I've been trying to cut it out, at least mostly
• 10:58
  because I've been very reliant on energy drinks and stuff.
• 11:02
  So I'm trying to cut back seriously on that and
• 11:05
  I feel I feel it.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: In a couple of weeks, you'll feel better.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm not.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: A doctor that's physical intellectual. I listened to Jordan Peterson
• 11:19
  podcast just simple but also not simple, relational. I went
• 11:25
  to a birthday party with a bunch of people that
• 11:27
  I don't really get to see very often. Catch up
• 11:31
  birthday Olivia Crowell Crowell. I don't know how you say
• 11:35
  her last name name c R O W E L L.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: How old is she.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Twenty? A happy birthday, Olivia, if you listen to this evangelical.
• 11:50
  I'm gonna be honest. I had a rough week for
• 11:54
  evangelical and I can't really think of anything.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Did you feed the hungry?
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Probably?
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Did you give drink? There you go, Mercy.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I probably did some of the corpor walks of Mercy.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Let's go.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Again. It's like I can't remember specific things, but I'm
• 12:13
  sure I did at some point. I need to be
• 12:16
  better about that and I will be going forward.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: I'm very similars, Like sometimes I got a confession. It's like,
• 12:21
  so what do you have to confess?
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: I was like, you know what I done?
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: I'm literally perfect, but like I don't remember what I've done.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I was too hard. I was just like praising God
• 12:34
  like with like way too much, too much.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Above too hard, too much.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: I'm literally so merciful, it's gotta be a said.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Anyway, So lead us off topic so we don't use
• 12:50
  up all of our time with this. Even though this
• 12:54
  is a topic that probably you could talk about for a.
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: Very part one, part two, Part three, Part four, it'll
• 12:59
  probably have to be something we'll take time.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: So our topic is identity, and this is something I've
• 13:05
  been thinking about a lot in the past couple of
• 13:07
  weeks especially, And so I guess my question. It could
• 13:11
  be a big question, could be super complicated, or it
• 13:13
  could be super simple. How you answer it? What makes
• 13:19
  you who you are?
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Complicated?
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: This is the question. Fun fact, if for some wild reason,
• 13:31
  I was ever on Joe Rogan, I would ask Joe
• 13:33
  Rogan this question. This is like I've had this in
• 13:36
  my head for so long as that's the question I'm
• 13:39
  gonna ask a famous person if I ever.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: Get makes me who I am?
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: In? What? Like? Are we talking essence like conceptualization?
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: No? Like, just don't think too hard about it. How
• 13:57
  would you answer the question? How I for you want
• 14:00
  to answer it?
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: What makes me?
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: All about the way that you view yourself.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: I think that your sense of identity actually comes from
• 14:16
  outside of yourself, Like it's not something that you where.
• 14:20
  It's like, I think that we figure out what our
• 14:27
  identity is from outside of ourself, and I think the
• 14:30
  source of that is what's important. And so I think
• 14:34
  what makes me who I am is in some way?
• 14:39
  Who do you say that I am? And it is
• 14:42
  that true? Does that resonate with who I actually am?
• 14:48
  So I guess, okay, I guess it can't be purely
• 14:51
  who I am. Who I am is affirmed or denied
• 14:56
  from outside of me?
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, what makes it who you are?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: So?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: What is it that makes fulton.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: The thing that can be affirmed or denied?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: So are you just asking? Will you asked me what
• 15:15
  my gut response to that would be? So my gut
• 15:19
  response would be, I am. I always said I am
• 15:24
  who I am? I am? Okay, So you can answer
• 15:33
  that however you're you would initially answer it. But the
• 15:37
  truth is, I am the sum total of God's love
• 15:40
  for me. So that's my identity. But that had to
• 15:49
  be given to me from without and confirmed and received
• 15:54
  by me from within for it too for me to
• 16:00
  know I like that.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: That is a really good What you're saying is you're
• 16:07
  talking about the separation between who you actually are and
• 16:09
  how you came to know who you are.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Basically, well, when you say who are you am? I
• 16:15
  going to tell you who I am, because when I
• 16:17
  think about who I am, I'm like, oh geez, I'm
• 16:20
  kind of like, I don't have this. I don't do this.
• 16:23
  I'm trying to think of the things that are relevant
• 16:25
  to you, and I'm assuming I'm being judged in a
• 16:28
  sense based on some criteria, and so I'm like, well,
• 16:32
  when I think about who I am, I'm like, I
• 16:35
  don't like this about me. I don't have this, I
• 16:37
  do like this. Maybe I'm prideful, I don't really like
• 16:39
  this about me, or blah blah blah blah blah. So
• 16:41
  then I'm not really giving you who I am. I'm
• 16:43
  just giving you who I think I am. But that's
• 16:46
  not who I am, because my identity is not who
• 16:49
  I think I am. My identity is who the number
• 16:54
  one thinks I am. When it gives me life that
• 16:56
  made me. He decides who I am, and then I
• 17:01
  either know that or I don't know that.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: You're shedding late light on that great dichotomy of being
• 17:07
  versus perception of being. I made up those terms, so
• 17:11
  that's not like hyphilosophical terms. I just mad, but just
• 17:13
  like who I am versus who I think I am,
• 17:17
  and those are very different things.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Or actually ideally they shouldn't.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: So a great way that I was. I watched the
• 17:27
  video and it was explained so simply. It's hilarious. I've
• 17:32
  gotta play it. I've got to play it because it's
• 17:36
  these two guys. Just to draw the picture, it's one
• 17:39
  guy who's they're both completely tatted up and they're just
• 17:44
  sitting there and the opening statement is so the devil
• 17:48
  attacks you. What do you do about that? Fool? And
• 17:52
  then the guy actually drops some not some like wisdom.
• 17:55
  And it was very simple and it has to do
• 17:56
  with thoughts and feelings.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Maybe you play it and then if you send me
• 18:02
  the link to it, then I'll put it like in
• 18:04
  the video so people can actually see what you're talking about.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Okay, f the editing skills, no, it'll be simple.
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: But Michael on the spring break, he has time to
• 18:12
  do that.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: All the weeks.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I could do that. Yeah, this is the one.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's a lot.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: This is gonna have to be a more heavily edited
• 18:22
  episode than because of the beginning.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: When the devil attacks, for what do you just pray?
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: So when the devil attacks, he only attacks in one way.
• 18:33
  John thirteen, verse two says, after supper being ended, the
• 18:37
  devil now putting the thought inside of Judas is scary.
• 18:40
  It's hard to betray Jesus. You guys know the story
• 18:43
  of Judas. He betrayed Jesus. Outwardly it's him, but inside
• 18:47
  it was Satan. So he like, he puts that thought
• 18:50
  inside of us because nobody's just gonna wake up and somebody, right, you.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Gotta smoke your thoughts, feel angry, and then you start
• 18:58
  to behaving.
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: It comes from a thought, bro literally, so everything people,
• 19:03
  we're not just empty vessels. We move around wro we
• 19:06
  have thoughts, we have mind, we have you know, all
• 19:08
  these different feelings and emotions, but it starts with the thoughts.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: So what I took away from that was something that
• 19:16
  this was what I first thought of when you guys
• 19:17
  brought up identity, was like, our identity can't come from
• 19:26
  something that changes, and our thoughts change all the time,
• 19:29
  and our feelings change, and so then when we identify
• 19:31
  with that our value and the way that we conceive
• 19:34
  of ourselves and how we then think of what we
• 19:39
  deserve or how we ought to behave or act or
• 19:43
  be treated. It fluctuates with the thoughts and the feelings
• 19:46
  that go up and down. And another thing he says
• 19:49
  is you have to put your stake in the fridge
• 19:54
  if you don't want to go back, but you have
• 19:57
  to put your identity, and you have to put your
• 19:59
  trust int something that doesn't change. And so then you
• 20:02
  have to find something outside of you and in the
• 20:06
  case of God, something that's also inside of you that
• 20:08
  doesn't change. Oh, your identity.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: This is exactly where I wanted to go with it.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: But first, oh, all right, I'll answer it in a
• 20:15
  different way, just to add controversy and whatnot.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: So sometimes I'm.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: Talking with Mike about this a little bit ago.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I just look.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: At my hand and I wonder what a hand is,
• 20:29
  like how it can close, and like the fact that
• 20:32
  I'm looking at it and and my pinky is moving,
• 20:35
  and I'm making my pinky move, and I don't know
• 20:36
  how I'm making my pinky move, but I am. And
• 20:38
  like if I consciously think pinky move. It doesn't move,
• 20:43
  but I could just move my pinky, and and it's
• 20:45
  something connected in there in all of this, And then
• 20:49
  the sense of self in the like motions of the hand,
• 20:53
  or the sense of self of looking inside of my
• 20:55
  own head and picturing where I'm thinking. I I really
• 21:00
  understand the reason why they cart His fundamental basis of
• 21:07
  reality was cogieto ergo sum. I think, therefore I am
• 21:10
  because it is irrefutable. It is irrefutable that I think.
• 21:16
  I know that one hundred percent. Eric, you don't know
• 21:20
  that I know that. I think you probably know that.
• 21:22
  You think unless you're a robot, then you don't know anything.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: How can you know that, you think?
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: Because I feel like I understand it's an it's an
• 21:31
  inherent nature of ourselves to be able to have a
• 21:35
  self awareness and that and that just blows my mind sometimes.
• 21:40
  So sometimes I just look at my hand. If I'm
• 21:41
  ever in a group and I'm looking at my hand.
• 21:43
  It's not that I'm necessarily bored, but I'm astounded by
• 21:45
  the just perplexing complexity of the hand and how it
• 21:49
  is so tightly interconnected with who I am. Anyway, So
• 21:55
  what I think I was getting that at there is
• 21:57
  just the self and awareness.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: What is it that makes me who I am?
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: I am this awareness of self, the fact that like
• 22:03
  I can differentiate myself from something else, the fact that
• 22:07
  I know I'm me and not this book or not
• 22:10
  this couch is quite an inherent part of me. And
• 22:13
  it's like, yeah, it doesn't define me, but I know
• 22:17
  it and it's weird anyway.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: That's how I define it.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: So you have it more in a physical sense, and
• 22:25
  you have it much more like a philosophical kind.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Of spiritual sense.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: But I would almost push back on that a little
• 22:32
  bit if we're going to tie those two together and
• 22:34
  say that you can't be defined by anything that you
• 22:39
  do because the things you do change, like you were saying.
• 22:43
  So if you're saying, and I'm not going to argue
• 22:46
  with Descartes.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: But Discartes had a lot of wrongness.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: If I say I think therefore I am that I'm
• 22:54
  saying that I am defining my being in a sense
• 22:59
  because my actions are defining my existence. I don't think
• 23:02
  that that. Yeah, So I actually sorry, you.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Know, Carl Young, I don't know a lot about it. Okay,
• 23:13
  I don't know how much you listened to Jordan Peterson.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear about him pretty consistently.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, he once said you are your actions, man, you
• 23:24
  are what you do, and I actually believe that. But
• 23:28
  that's actually a lie from hell.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Crazy, right, Yeah, okay, So this is oh, this is
• 23:35
  so good. This is exactly how I want conversation to go.
• 23:38
  Because so, I don't know if you looked at the document,
• 23:41
  but in the document, I have stuff about how people
• 23:45
  define themselves. And I'm not going to sit here and
• 23:47
  be like I never do any of these things and
• 23:49
  I'm perfect and I have figured out even if I
• 23:52
  say this stuff, I'm still very much figuring this out,
• 23:57
  and constantly I'm struggling with like, who am I, Where's
• 24:01
  my value come from?
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: That kind of thing. But you stand on the shoulder
• 24:04
  of giants exactly.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: So, Jess, if somebody is addicted to alcohol, for instance,
• 24:13
  they might say I'm a drinker. If you smoke all
• 24:18
  the time, you might say I'm a smoker. If you
• 24:22
  do whatever, it could even be a good thing if
• 24:25
  you If I say I'm a musician, if you say
• 24:29
  I'm a physicist, if you say I am a roof
• 24:32
  repair person. It's like, I know exactly what I would say, like,
• 24:40
  what's the term. I guess you pick roof repair person.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. Put that on a name tag.
• 24:48
  I'm your legal or I mean your local roof repair person.
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: I can tell you why that star blows up. He
• 24:53
  can keep your head giant with his raining.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: But so that's all.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: How if you ask some who are you, that's probably
• 25:02
  how they're going to answer to an extent, Like they'll
• 25:04
  tell you.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: What they do because it's context though, like they're gonna
• 25:07
  give you the relevant they are.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: But I think that that doesn't really it's we think
• 25:15
  that that defines us because like you're saying, it's a
• 25:17
  lie from health, our actions are the things that define us.
• 25:21
  So if I say I am this thing, if I
• 25:25
  say I'm a drinker, I'm defining myself by my actions.
• 25:29
  Doesn't mean I didn't do those things.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: What are the consequences of defining yourself by your actions?
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I think that you place a lot more responsibility on yourself.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Then you lose your sense of self.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: You also get So this is why I wanted to
• 25:44
  ask Joe role this question. It's like you ask Joe Rogan,
• 25:48
  what makes you Joe Rogan? And then he said maybe
• 25:50
  he says like, oh, I do MMA, and I do
• 25:52
  stand up, and I have a podcast and all this stuff,
• 25:55
  And so what happens if tomorrow you lose all of that?
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Who are you?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: What happens if you're a drinker and tomorrow you stop drinking?
• 26:03
  Who are you after that? What happens if I'm a
• 26:06
  musician and then tomorrow I'll wake up and I'm blind
• 26:08
  and I'm deaf and I can't play music anymore? Like
• 26:11
  what happens if you lose that thing? And so what
• 26:15
  you're saying is, once you define yourself by your actions,
• 26:21
  you can lose your sense of self because actions can change,
• 26:25
  and the things you do can change, and the things
• 26:27
  you think can change. And so if you're going to
• 26:31
  define yourself, and if you're going to find your identity,
• 26:33
  you have to find it in something that doesn't change,
• 26:36
  or else your identity and who you are would constantly
• 26:38
  be shifting and changing all over the place, and you
• 26:41
  wouldn't have any idea who you are. The problem is,
• 26:45
  and it's not really a problem for us, but the
• 26:50
  problem is for a lot of people that there's only
• 26:53
  one thing that doesn't change, and that, like you said,
• 26:59
  the getting is God and God's love for you. So
• 27:06
  I think, if you're really going to define yourself, and
• 27:08
  you're really going to say who am I, that the
• 27:11
  only this is I don't know, it sounds kind of
• 27:15
  weird saying it, but the only right answer is that
• 27:21
  you are a child of God.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: I made in the image, made in the image.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: And likeness of God, and that is the only thing
• 27:28
  about you that will never change and can never change.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: I like it.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: I you made me construct this image in my mind
• 27:41
  because like we are not defined by our actions, but
• 27:43
  our actions affect us.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: They who you are.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: They made me picture this mountain, lake, mountain, just because
• 27:50
  I like mountains. But this lake of water and a
• 27:53
  leaf floating on it, and you are that leaf, all right?
• 27:58
  Then things happen in the lake. You know, A breeze
• 28:02
  blows you one direction, the tides blow you another. I
• 28:05
  don't know how lakes have tides, but they this this
• 28:08
  lake does. A tide blows you in other directions. Sometimes
• 28:10
  a little fish comes up and pokes your leaf, pushes
• 28:13
  you up. And then sometimes someone cannon balls over the
• 28:16
  side and launches you away and everything about so you
• 28:19
  gets blown away, but like you are still that leaf.
• 28:22
  And all these actions that are pushing you this way
• 28:24
  and that way, they do not change the fact that
• 28:26
  there is a leaf floating on that water. They just
• 28:28
  change where the leaf is going. And so it's like
• 28:30
  you are not defined by your actions, but your actions
• 28:33
  are integral to who you to where you are, not
• 28:37
  to who you are, but to where you are and
• 28:39
  where you're going. It's just like, yeah, my actions don't
• 28:42
  define me, but if I can define my actions, then
• 28:47
  my actions define where I'm going.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: And I don't know where I'm going.
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: Picture the lake and the leaf. That's that's all you
• 28:56
  need to know.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: No, I really, I really like that. So what I'm
• 29:01
  thinking about now is how do I say this. So
• 29:12
  there's a lot of people who this may be kind
• 29:15
  of controversial, actually, but you know, well, I think a
• 29:21
  lot of Catholics, especially, think that what you do as
• 29:26
  a human being is what will get you into heaven.
• 29:31
  And I think a lot of people think, you know,
• 29:33
  doing good things, like that's what's going to define you
• 29:35
  as a good person, Like that's what's going to get
• 29:39
  you saved. But we can't save ourselves. And then there's
• 29:45
  a lot of Protestants who will also say, you know,
• 29:48
  if you do something bad, then oh, you were never
• 29:49
  saved in the first place. But then that leads you
• 29:51
  to the place of now I'm teetering on the edge
• 29:55
  of in I saved or am I not, depending on
• 29:57
  what I do next. So it's like you don't really
• 30:01
  know anything for sure, and in this life you don't
• 30:03
  know anything really, Like if you really think about it,
• 30:06
  you don't know anything. Do you know that I don't exactly, we.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Don't even get back yet. That thoughts is a chaotic one.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: But no, that that's very much true. And it's actually
• 30:22
  I believe I don't know the name of it, but
• 30:24
  I believe that is a heresy. The fact that the idea,
• 30:28
  I know what you're talking about, the idea that like
• 30:31
  we save ourselves through our actions, that is a heresy
• 30:34
  because we are at the bottom of a cliff, not
• 30:37
  at the bottom.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: We are on on.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: A shelf, part way up a cliff. All right, Heaven's
• 30:43
  on the top. And it's like, we can climb part
• 30:45
  of this cliff, but this cliff is tall. We do
• 30:48
  not have the strength and our muscles, our muscles will
• 30:50
  fail and give way. We cannot climb this cliff by ourselves.
• 30:56
  It's not depressing, it's it's the truth. But there's still
• 31:00
  some aspect where we can climb, some part of it
• 31:02
  we can still work, So it's not just like a
• 31:05
  completely not us at all. There's still aspects of our
• 31:09
  actions do affect us and they direct us, but we
• 31:13
  cannot climb up this cliff. But thankfully there's someone who
• 31:17
  has lowered a rope down to us, so that all
• 31:20
  we need to do is hold on to this rope
• 31:22
  and then someone else pulls us up.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I think that is kind of the main point there though,
• 31:29
  with the actions thing, because you can't like, let's say,
• 31:36
  just for example, the cliff isn't actually like a natural cliff.
• 31:39
  Let's say it's just a concrete wall that's a ninety
• 31:42
  degree angle, straight up vertical. There's no handholds at all.
• 31:46
  You can do things, and we've talked about this a lot.
• 31:48
  We talked about this with the prayer one in the
• 31:50
  first couple of weeks. Where everything you do in your
• 31:55
  life is about making a choice, and so your actions,
• 32:00
  it's not the action itself as much as it's your
• 32:03
  choice to participate in that action. So that's not to
• 32:07
  say that things can't be inherently bad because they can't
• 32:10
  like whatever. But it's your choice to participate in that action.
• 32:15
  And so it's there's a rope that gets lowered down,
• 32:18
  but you have to choose to grab that rope. You
• 32:21
  can stay where you are, or you can jump off
• 32:24
  the cliff the other way if you want to, But
• 32:26
  then if you jump off the cliff the other way,
• 32:29
  there will be another rope. It gets lowered down, and
• 32:31
  you can choose to grab that rope. And grabbing the
• 32:34
  rope is comparable to your actions, showing that you are choosing.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: But it is not your actions that save you. It's
• 32:43
  the rope that save It's the rope that saves you.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: It's your choice of accepting the help. To be humble
• 32:49
  and be like, I cannot climb this by myself. I
• 32:52
  need someone to lift me up. And it's a humility
• 32:57
  to take an action knowing that that action isn't what
• 33:00
  saves you. It's what that action, let's end, that saves you.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: So do you think that this and this is kind
• 33:07
  of another big question, I guess do you think that
• 33:09
  that would be at least partially why so many people
• 33:14
  are so lost in the modern world because they think
• 33:19
  or they've bought in the lie that it's their actions
• 33:22
  that define them, and so you're always working to try
• 33:24
  and get all these different things and do all these
• 33:26
  different things because you think that that is what's going
• 33:28
  to bring you value. And ultimately, no matter how much
• 33:32
  you do, that's never going to satisfy you. But because
• 33:36
  we live in a god the society, everybody not only
• 33:40
  have they bought into the lie, but it's just been
• 33:42
  like force fed to them their entire lives. Is what
• 33:46
  you do is what makes you who you are. So
• 33:50
  I mean, what do you think about.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: That what you do makes you?
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I definitely think that that is a major effect.
• 34:01
  And I've said this a lot and a ton of
• 34:03
  different videos that this thing is a major effect as
• 34:05
  to why society is so depressed nowadays. And they're all
• 34:09
  different things, but I think they're all tied in and
• 34:10
  be really cool to have the connections there. But I
• 34:12
  haven't formulated that, but that is definitely a huge effect
• 34:17
  that the thought. That's why I said when it's like
• 34:20
  actions define us, Like if you believe that you lose
• 34:22
  your sense of self because of actions define you, actions
• 34:25
  will change. And when I say actions like it also
• 34:29
  includes of like what I have belongings, and belongings will change,
• 34:34
  you know.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: So I've seen so.
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: Many guys and I'm not, you know, away from the
• 34:42
  away from this. I don't know if there's a word
• 34:44
  there who who feel like? All I need to do
• 34:47
  is to find someone special for me, who I can love,
• 34:52
  and then then I will be better. Then I will
• 34:53
  be able to give my life for her. Then I
• 34:55
  will be able to do this. Then I will be
• 34:57
  able to grow in virtue. Then I will be able
• 34:59
  to be strong. And that's defining your ability of who
• 35:03
  you are based on someone else. That is not God.
• 35:08
  It is defining who you are based on having something.
• 35:13
  But if you do not have a sense of self,
• 35:17
  then when, if or whatever you have this and you
• 35:22
  do not have that sense of self and you define
• 35:24
  yourself on this other person, and then this other person
• 35:27
  fails you somehow, it will destroy you because everything you
• 35:31
  have defined about yourself is tied up with this person
• 35:36
  and that can change. And if you don't have this
• 35:39
  innercore of self that cannot be destroyed by that, then
• 35:44
  losing this thing that you define yourself on will completely
• 35:49
  and utterly destroy your image of self, destroy who you
• 35:53
  think you are and you will have nothing in your
• 35:58
  own thoughts. And that is pressing, and that is you
• 36:03
  see that so much in modern ages, people in this
• 36:08
  ex culture or this or that, which is like we
• 36:11
  define ourselves based on what we have or what we
• 36:14
  have lost, and when we focus on that, and we
• 36:18
  just get depressed through that because it we what we
• 36:21
  have we lose and what we lose we have lost
• 36:24
  and it can't be ours. It's like, yeah, no, that's
• 36:28
  definitely a huge effect because we are not the actions.
• 36:33
  It's not the actions that define us. There is some
• 36:37
  intercore of us that is unaffected by that, that is
• 36:40
  undefined by actions. It is only defined by a presence
• 36:46
  of a superior being who loves us and suffuses us
• 36:49
  with energy, with existence. Yeah.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was also good. That's it's always funny when
• 37:01
  I hear you say something and I'm like, that's it,
• 37:04
  and it's like I think about that stuff all the time.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's always good to hear something if you
• 37:09
  ever do.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: Like a relationship romantic relationship episode like that stuff that
• 37:13
  I would talk about, and it's it's huge.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: But that's the big point that I wanted to get at,
• 37:20
  is like who are you if you lose the thing
• 37:23
  that you define yourself with, And so.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: How do you know what you define yourself with?
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I I can't. I can't speak generally
• 37:36
  about that because I mean, it depends on the individual,
• 37:39
  because there are some people maybe who do identify themselves
• 37:42
  as simply at their core, as made in the image
• 37:47
  and likeness of God. And some people might be like,
• 37:50
  I'm you know this that or the other.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Is that even something you'd be aware of?
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Yah? I think it is.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I think you can be because I think for me, Okay,
• 37:58
  I won't go into a ton of detail, but it's
• 38:01
  something that you have to figure out. So there, this
• 38:05
  is why I like you're I've had basically that same
• 38:08
  thing happened to me in the past, and I don't
• 38:10
  realize it in the moment, but looking back, I can
• 38:12
  see the reason why losing somebody is so difficult, or
• 38:20
  it's infinitely more difficult if you found your identity in
• 38:26
  that person. And so that's not something that you're going
• 38:28
  to recognize in the moment. You're probably not thinking, oh,
• 38:31
  should I change what I'm doing? Should I try and
• 38:34
  find my identity somewhere else? Because of whatever whatever It's
• 38:38
  like I didn't realize until after the fact that that's
• 38:41
  what I was doing, is finding my identity another person.
• 38:47
  So I don't I don't know that you're going to
• 38:48
  be aware of it, because if you were aware of it,
• 38:49
  you would probably change And if you don't change it,
• 38:52
  then you're making the choice.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: You can be aware of it.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I think you can, But I.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Think that's when you have to what are we defining
• 39:00
  as identity in this instance, because we're I think we've
• 39:03
  started off.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: That was the first question, kind of right.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Everybody answered that we've been using it interchangeably. So like
• 39:10
  in Michael's your identity is like your self worth, like
• 39:14
  your awareness of your value would be your identity in
• 39:19
  the sense where if if your value, if you give
• 39:21
  someone else the power over your own value and they
• 39:27
  reject you, then what that tells you is my value
• 39:30
  is not good enough. Therefore I am not good enough,
• 39:33
  and then that applies to everywhere else where you're being measured.
• 39:37
  But then earlier you were talking about identity is how
• 39:41
  I am differentiated from others as a conscious being, and
• 39:46
  then my definition of identity was something similar to I
• 39:55
  think kind of like both of those.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, identity.
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: So one of those really difficult things because it's it's
• 40:01
  the thing that is at the core. It is the
• 40:04
  the sent to most definition of the.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Thing that we are talking about.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: So, like, the identity of me is the thing that
• 40:13
  like defines who I am. And that's why it's such
• 40:17
  a difficult thing because human beings are not just.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: Simple. It's not just like.
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: That.
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: That's why in the Old Testament, when God told Moses,
• 40:33
  I am who I am, he is who he is,
• 40:37
  that is his identity, and that defines God because God
• 40:41
  defines himself.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Well, he said I am who am synonyms. He was saying,
• 40:46
  I am. Well, if you say I mean I am,
• 40:49
  well I am, you're saying I am myself. But I
• 40:53
  am who he's He.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Is being himself. Okay, yeah.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: But but that he defines himself in himsel self, fully
• 41:00
  in himself and with himself, and.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: And he can do that though that he doesn't change.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: The problem is that we change.
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: We change, and and real quick, I'm gonna close the door, okay, yeah,
• 41:14
  And does our identity change, Like when when we talk
• 41:17
  about the definition of identity, I don't know, it's difficult.
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: I like this thought of like self value of self
• 41:25
  worth as being a big aspect of identity.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: It's not like the full of it, but.
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: Like what makes the mona Lisa worth far more than
• 41:37
  the the five year old drawing of a tree by
• 41:41
  five year old? I mean a drawing by a five
• 41:43
  year old, not a drawing. The thing is, it's like
• 41:51
  the value of it. The identity of the Mona Lisa
• 41:53
  is in the value of it, and that is a
• 41:57
  value that we place on it. And so there's an
• 41:59
  aspect of other people's placing of values on us that
• 42:02
  affects us. But we there's something more, our core, which
• 42:06
  is the value that God places on us, and that
• 42:08
  is our in a core, and that is our in
• 42:10
  our identity, the value that God places on us, and
• 42:13
  that doesn't change. I don't know where I'm going with this.
• 42:15
  I lost my train of thoughts.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: What if we ask okay, I think, what are we which? What?
• 42:24
  What question have we been trying to answer? We started
• 42:29
  with a question what are we trying to answer?
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I think that we should go with the value because okay,
• 42:37
  what because that's the other stuff is going to be
• 42:40
  very different person to person, and I think your value
• 42:43
  is the only thing that won't change between me and.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: You and you ken what if we what if we
• 42:50
  sort of in a dish like tying in with that
• 42:54
  the relevant way that are the modern problem with identity
• 42:59
  is clearly I can define what and who I am.
• 43:08
  So if I say I am a helicopter, then you then.
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: I am I might be a helicopter parent.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: And it's the same thing with the cats and the schools,
• 43:21
  like they are saying I'm a cat, and then we're like,
• 43:24
  you can't say that you're a cat, and then us
• 43:27
  treat you like a cat because you're not a cat.
• 43:29
  That's not your identity. Yeah, so right, so then how
• 43:33
  are we able?
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: So instead of us trying to define identity, let's look
• 43:37
  at attributes and the how identity changes or could change
• 43:43
  or could not change or whatnot a huge thing. There's
• 43:49
  kind of like two ways that we could have identity.
• 43:54
  One is in a categorical sense and one is as
• 43:58
  like a singular since that is undefinable almost by a category.
• 44:05
  So its categories is as you're saying, like I'm a smoker,
• 44:08
  I'm a drinker, and you start filling in the boxes.
• 44:10
  It's basically, uh, you take a personality test, it's like
• 44:13
  do you like this thing or that thing?
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Click? Click, this, that, this, that.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: And we can put ourselves into boxes in this way.
• 44:20
  And that is such a human thing to do, to
• 44:22
  put ourselves into boxes. It's so easy and natural. But
• 44:27
  I do not believe that that defines us who we are.
• 44:30
  There's something inner, So there's something core, unchangeable and undefinable
• 44:34
  by by natural means. And so if we can just
• 44:39
  put ourselves into boxes, then why don't we just break
• 44:42
  through a box and instead of being in this box,
• 44:45
  we move over to that box, and we change who
• 44:47
  we are, and we can change that. And a big,
• 44:50
  a big thing is like, if all we are is
• 44:53
  a categorial gold box placement thing, then I want to
• 44:57
  change some of these boxes to do this or that
• 45:00
  for this or that reason. And that is the danger
• 45:05
  of a categorical understanding of self, because a categorical understanding
• 45:09
  of self is changeable.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, So that is exactly the problem with Descartes is
• 45:15
  because Descartes says, I think, therefore I am. Therefore whatever
• 45:19
  I think I am, I am. And that's the problem
• 45:22
  that we've run into, is that we look at everything
• 45:24
  as category and box and measure and definition and understanding
• 45:29
  and fitting it in. And then once we fit everything
• 45:31
  into our system, someone's going to come along and be like, well,
• 45:35
  I don't like the boxes you guys made, so then
• 45:38
  I want to be in this box over here and
• 45:40
  I want it to be seen this way. And then
• 45:43
  we're like, no, you can't do that. But they're basically saying,
• 45:46
  that's just arbitrary. That's like what all the postmodern I
• 45:50
  don't know, I don't know, I don't know how to
• 45:52
  explain all of that. But the postmodern is basically said,
• 45:55
  that is the way that reality maps itself out. Everything
• 45:58
  is socially constructed, and everything is made by these boxes,
• 46:01
  so they're ultimately arbitrary. We're just lucky that our culture
• 46:05
  is built on top of it. But the problem is
• 46:07
  is that we've become convinced and I'm basically proposing this.
• 46:11
  You guys tell me if you think it's at tracking
• 46:13
  or not. The problem is is that we have breathed
• 46:17
  and drank in this worldview to understand everything as we
• 46:22
  know it. The only thing that would transcend us out
• 46:24
  of the matrix. That matrix would be mystery and paradox
• 46:29
  and ultimately a truth that lies outside of what our
• 46:32
  consciousness can measure and see and perceive in its limited capacities.
• 46:37
  And that's why if your identity is based in the
• 46:40
  things we understand and how we define and categorize things,
• 46:44
  then they can be messed with. But if you instead
• 46:52
  tie yourself to something deeper, which would be a deeper
• 46:57
  reality beyond what you can understand, measure, category, rise, put
• 47:01
  in boxes, whatever it is, then you are It's almost
• 47:05
  like you're able to be more sane because the game,
• 47:09
  like the framework with which you approach reality can't get
• 47:14
  completely destroyed because you're anchored to something that never changes.
• 47:19
  It's something deeper than just human mind and consciousness, which.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Is basically I think, well I was saying, but a
• 47:30
  little bit more because the thing that is outside of
• 47:36
  your understanding, like, I mean, we know what that is,
• 47:42
  but I think at a base level it has to
• 47:45
  be something like that. I think, then it becomes what
• 47:49
  is that thing? Okay, what is that thing's relation to you?
• 47:54
  And then you might say like, oh, well, why should
• 47:57
  I base myself off of that instead of just if
• 47:59
  I want to put myself in this category. I think like,
• 48:03
  if you're gonna ask that kind of question, then you
• 48:05
  have to be able to say, like why is that?
• 48:11
  Because if people want to put themselves into I started
• 48:14
  doing that, you always do see this, Uh what is
• 48:24
  this thing? If somebody wants to put themselves in a
• 48:28
  category or they want to put themselves in a different box,
• 48:30
  and they want to say I'm a cat, and they.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Want you to treat them like a cat as one does.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Even if I'm like, well no, you can't do that.
• 48:38
  You have to define yourself with this and you have
• 48:41
  to identify with the thing that's outside. Like the other
• 48:45
  person doesn't want to do that, they want to be
• 48:46
  a cat.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: It has to be you have to make it relevant.
• 48:52
  So this whole thing where it's like, okay, science is
• 48:55
  the ultimate reality. It's like just because you measure something
• 48:59
  doesn't mean that it relevant. So like it's interesting and
• 49:02
  it's information, but we need relevant information because and what
• 49:07
  makes something relevant is ultimately it's the state of our being,
• 49:16
  like our I mean that's not the right word, it's
• 49:18
  like our quality of life.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: What would make something relevant I think would be its
• 49:26
  relationship to you, basically to who you are, to who
• 49:30
  you are in this in this conversation.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well because yeah, so it's like if you're telling
• 49:34
  the cat person, look, if you try to mess with
• 49:37
  these boxes and say that we all have to change
• 49:41
  how we treat you and you get to just decide,
• 49:44
  and you're basing it on whims, then that is going
• 49:48
  to ultimately deteriorate the the common structure that makes our
• 49:53
  society possible, which is communicating the same ways, understanding the
• 49:57
  same things, the same ground rules, the same basic ways
• 50:02
  of seeing the world. If you just start messing with that,
• 50:05
  then we won't see it the same way, and the
• 50:07
  Tower of Babble will happen because we can't communicate. So
• 50:10
  the person is trying to say, ultimately, deep down, when
• 50:14
  they're saying I'm a cat, they're saying, I don't know
• 50:16
  what my identity really is, and I'm looking for some
• 50:19
  sort of comfort and solid place for my mind and
• 50:21
  my anxiety to be given rest in peace. Ultimately, they
• 50:25
  want Jesus, they want a permanent place to hold themselves,
• 50:31
  to be held within. But what they're saying is, well,
• 50:35
  this is the best option that I know to go
• 50:37
  with right now. Is I just want to feel accepted,
• 50:39
  and I feel like I would be accepted for this
• 50:42
  this way, and it's just all these other lies that
• 50:44
  are getting told to them that they're kind of getting
• 50:46
  dragged down by. And if that happens, that's going to
• 50:53
  make it so that we can't communicate anymore. Oops, sorry,
• 50:57
  we can't communicate anymore, and then the whole thing is
• 50:59
  going to crack down because it's so delicately balanced on
• 51:02
  our ability to communicate, be on the same page, being relationship,
• 51:06
  and so then when we don't see things the same,
• 51:08
  we're gonna just It's the Tower of Babbel. That's what
• 51:11
  that story is about, fundamental.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Like connection. I hadn't thought about the Tower of Babbel
• 51:18
  in connection to that.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: That's ultimately what it is. I mean, like that's not
• 51:21
  ultimately what it is, but that's like that's in that story.
• 51:25
  It's because it's like their ability to communicate and be
• 51:28
  on the same page. And then, you know, so it's
• 51:34
  relevant that we're all on the same page here, because
• 51:37
  if we're not, this society, this community, our ability to
• 51:42
  rely on each other, cities, electricity, water, jobs, money systems, politics,
• 51:48
  it is all basically like the same thing as me going, hey, Nick,
• 51:52
  I'll give you this goat if you help me get
• 51:55
  water in because my leg's broken, and then he gets
• 52:00
  to eat a goat because I had to go, and
• 52:02
  then he helps me get water, and then that just
• 52:04
  basically goes up and up and up and up and
• 52:05
  up and up. But if I don't communicate with him
• 52:09
  because he is like this guy's not treating me like
• 52:12
  I'm a wolf and I am a wolf, and I'm like,
• 52:15
  I thought you were a man from how I you know,
• 52:17
  it's like that's not gonna work. And so it's relevant
• 52:21
  that we're all on the same page of where we
• 52:23
  draw our identity from. And it's very important that we
• 52:30
  draw our identity from something that does not change. So
• 52:34
  it can't come from our own thoughts because we know
• 52:36
  our thoughts change, and it can't come from our own
• 52:38
  feelings because we know our feelings change. And I just
• 52:43
  had this point proven to me by I was meeting
• 52:46
  with a monk brother Joe, and he's like, you know
• 52:49
  what you're always you always are talking about like how
• 52:51
  you feel, like how I feel I was like, I
• 52:53
  feel like this, I feel like that. I feel like that.
• 52:54
  He goes, You're a big feelings guy, and I was like, I,
• 52:57
  you know, and he's like, really, feelings. It's like men
• 53:00
  don't run their lives based on their feelings. And I
• 53:03
  was like, well, you know, blah blah blah, and then
• 53:05
  we were It was hard to accept because I was like,
• 53:07
  am I limiting my own feelings? Am I like throwing
• 53:10
  those out? Do I not care? And it's like, it's
• 53:12
  not that God doesn't care about your feelings, it's that
• 53:15
  your feelings change, and so you don't run your life
• 53:18
  on your feelings. And then I before I was having
• 53:22
  a tough time understanding that. So before he was asking
• 53:24
  me questions, and then we went on this walk and
• 53:27
  one of the questions was like, how do you feel
• 53:30
  about your relationship right now? And I was like I
• 53:33
  don't know where we are. I don't know what's going on,
• 53:35
  Like I don't really know how to understand it. And
• 53:37
  then we went on this walk and we talked, and
• 53:39
  you know, we talked about other things. We didn't go
• 53:41
  back to that. And then afterwards we sat down, We're
• 53:44
  talking and I wasn't aware, like I didn't remember this,
• 53:46
  and then he asked me again, well where are you,
• 53:48
  Like how do you feel about your relationship? And I
• 53:50
  was like, we're falling in love and like I was
• 53:54
  dead serious, like that is how I view like, that
• 53:56
  was what was going on. And then he goes, Okay,
• 53:59
  earlier you said this, and now you say this, so
• 54:03
  do you see how your feelings will change? So what's true?
• 54:08
  And then that's what you learn to base your life on.
• 54:12
  And I was like, oh, like get started to click.
• 54:15
  Finally I was like, okay, so my feelings will change,
• 54:18
  my thoughts will change, those can be interfered with. So
• 54:22
  anything that I'm basing my life around has to be
• 54:26
  in something that doesn't change. And that's what the promises
• 54:30
  from Jesus is that He's like, you are a this
• 54:34
  is your identity, this is the word of God. I
• 54:36
  will never change. Trust and believe in me. And then ultimately,
• 54:43
  if we don't believe that, if we don't believe in him,
• 54:46
  we will sin, and that sin will bring pain, and
• 54:49
  that sin will bring the tower bibble and this will
• 54:51
  burn down, and then might makes right and then there
• 54:54
  are warlords and there's chaos, and there's no love out
• 54:58
  there really, you know whatever. Anyway, but if you do believe,
• 55:05
  then your actions will flow from that belief. And then
• 55:08
  me and Nick and trade goat and water. So that's
• 55:12
  why it's so important where we get our identity from.
• 55:15
  And it's relevant to why people are challenging people that
• 55:19
  are trying to just get rid of stuff, because it's
• 55:21
  like you can't get rid of it, but that you
• 55:23
  can't just say you can't get rid of it. You
• 55:26
  have to be like we you have to tie You're
• 55:29
  trying to tie down your identity, your sense of worth,
• 55:33
  your desire for love to something that's what you're looking
• 55:36
  for and you're just picking this thing, but that's just
• 55:39
  not going to really withstand it. You've got to go
• 55:41
  to something that will never change, otherwise it burns down.
• 55:51
  I guess I forget.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Does that make that What're Yeah, that's kind of the
• 55:55
  whole thing I was getting out to be in with.
• 55:56
  It's just like, if you start from the ground and
• 55:59
  you build up, you get to the point where you're like,
• 56:02
  if you your feelings about your relationship change, if your
• 56:05
  habits change, if your actions change, if you know your
• 56:08
  interactions whatever, if your daily life and your physical self,
• 56:11
  even your mental self, your thoughts, if that all changes,
• 56:13
  you eventually get to a point where you're like that
• 56:18
  none of that can be who you are because that
• 56:20
  all changes, And so you have to find your identity
• 56:24
  and something that doesn't change, which is the point you
• 56:27
  just got to, which would believe the only question as
• 56:34
  what is that thing? And that's like, obviously we can't
• 56:38
  really get into that that much because.
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: That's how about instead of what is that thing?
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: Who is it?
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: How do you find.
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: That aspect in your life that stays constant that you
• 56:52
  can you can grab onto this thing that is constant
• 56:56
  that you can hold on.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: How do you go about finding that? Because if we.
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: Live based on our senses, our emotions, our intellect, and
• 57:09
  all of these can be fleeting. Alzheimer's people can tell
• 57:13
  you the intellect is fleeting, people who have been hurt
• 57:18
  in relationships can tell you emotions are fleeting, and you know,
• 57:22
  people that have been rendered blind can tell you that
• 57:26
  senses are fleeting. So the ways in which we interact
• 57:30
  with this world are fleeting. How can we find that
• 57:32
  which we can hold onto? Because isn't that like the
• 57:37
  ultimate question of like when we talk about identity, it's
• 57:41
  just like how do we.
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: Find that in which we are?
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: Or in other world views like how do we make
• 57:49
  us into a thing that we want to be? It's
• 57:52
  like what what is it? It's like it's not just
• 57:55
  this cool philosophical topic of what is it that makes
• 57:59
  us who we are? It's like, this is integral to
• 58:03
  who we are. This is integral to so much. And
• 58:08
  talking with you know, the cats in schools or whatnot,
• 58:11
  it's like, it's not attacking them because they have a
• 58:16
  different worldview. It's not, you know, trying to destroy who
• 58:20
  they are. It's not trying to place ourselves in a
• 58:23
  superiority of a moral understanding or this or that. But
• 58:28
  it's something that is integral to who we are. And
• 58:30
  it's like, how can we grab onto that which is tight,
• 58:34
  because sometimes we grab onto the wrong thing. There's a
• 58:38
  huge wind that blows us, so we take handcuffs and
• 58:42
  shackle ourselves to a you know, like a small little post,
• 58:48
  a light post. But then floods come and we realize
• 58:55
  that shackling us to protect us from the wind is
• 58:58
  gonna stop us from being able to swim away to
• 59:02
  save ourselves from the water. And so it's like, what
• 59:06
  is it that is there that is constant, whether or
• 59:09
  not it's wind or water or a fire. What is
• 59:13
  it there that will protect.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: You from that? And how do you go about finding it?
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: You said something at the very beginning about how you
• 59:24
  are defined by things outside of yourself. And that's kind
• 59:27
  of the point we've been getting at the whole time.
• 59:29
  But Jesus says here who finds his life will lose it,
• 59:35
  and he who loses his life will find it. I
• 59:38
  think you could almost in this conversation say like something like,
• 59:42
  I don't know, he who defines his own life will
• 59:46
  lose it, and he who loses his own life will
• 59:50
  find the definition. That doesn't sound right grammatically if I
• 59:53
  say that.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: Right, he who defines himself will lose himself. He who
• 1:00:00
  recognizes that.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: It is not loses his own definition of himself will
• 1:00:06
  find the real definition of himself.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, essentially, so, I think you have to realize that
• 1:00:14
  your identity does not come from within yourself. Which is
• 1:00:19
  the main problem, like we said, is that most people
• 1:00:22
  think that they can define who they are, and that
• 1:00:25
  they think that who they are can come from within themselves.
• 1:00:28
  And it's like I feel this way, or I think
• 1:00:30
  this thing, therefore I think therefore I am. So. I
• 1:00:34
  think the only time you will be able to find
• 1:00:40
  the thing to hold on to is when you realize
• 1:00:43
  that you need to stop looking in your own heart,
• 1:00:47
  in your own soul, in your own head, and in
• 1:00:50
  your own actions, and in your own hobbies and habits
• 1:00:54
  and relationships. Ultimately, I guess at the top is a
• 1:00:59
  relation it, but it's a little bit different, So I
• 1:01:03
  think I can't. I maybe one of you guys has
• 1:01:06
  a better answer as to how you actually do it.
• 1:01:08
  But I think when you will be able to find
• 1:01:11
  it is when you realize that you need to look
• 1:01:15
  outside of yourself instead of inside of yourself. I don't
• 1:01:20
  know how you go.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: About doing that straight up, if I had to use
• 1:01:25
  that analogy, you're this little leaf and you're fluttering about
• 1:01:32
  and you shackle yourself to a light post, and the
• 1:01:36
  winds came to blow your house down. That the wolf
• 1:01:48
  came and he huffed that he popped, And ultimately that
• 1:01:55
  is like the fundamental question, and the whole thing is
• 1:01:58
  that there's one guy who came and said I am
• 1:02:04
  the way. So when you're getting blown around, you're like
• 1:02:07
  where do I go? I'm going all these different ways?
• 1:02:09
  He is the way, and then you're like, Okay, am
• 1:02:13
  I a leaf? Am I whatever? He's like, I am
• 1:02:19
  the truth, the way and the truth. So it's like,
• 1:02:22
  am I do I define who I am? Do I
• 1:02:25
  think about?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: This? Is?
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: Am I basically on how I feel? How I think? No,
• 1:02:28
  he's the truth and then he's also the life. And
• 1:02:32
  I don't know how that plays into it, but all
• 1:02:34
  that I know is there is The whole reason it's
• 1:02:38
  called the gospel is because it's good news. So it's
• 1:02:41
  like people have been asking that question all forever, and
• 1:02:47
  then there was one person who came and was like, guys,
• 1:02:50
  I am that answer. I am who am? I am God?
• 1:02:55
  I am Jesus, I am that thing outside. Here's how
• 1:03:00
  you find me. Knock, seek and ask, and follow me
• 1:03:04
  and believe in me, and then everything else you'll do
• 1:03:08
  greater things than me. That all the stuff that you
• 1:03:10
  do good, you'll do all of the good later. But
• 1:03:13
  you have got to first believe that I love you,
• 1:03:17
  and you have to receive that love, and you have
• 1:03:19
  to know that love, and you have to ultimately spend
• 1:03:23
  time with me, Like how else would you do it?
• 1:03:26
  It doesn't happen. It's spending time. It's where your attention
• 1:03:31
  is given. So if you want to base, you want
• 1:03:35
  to find it, it's like, well, first go look in.
• 1:03:37
  It's like, don't just pick Jesus because I said pick Jesus.
• 1:03:40
  But it's like, go look at it for something that's
• 1:03:44
  calling you forward it's in your own heart, and then
• 1:03:47
  spend time with it. But just look at it and ask, Okay,
• 1:03:52
  if I spend all my time on this, whether it's
• 1:03:55
  if it's TikTok or if it's work or money or
• 1:04:00
  or whatever, you just look at other people that have
• 1:04:02
  spent all their time on something and then ask yourself,
• 1:04:06
  is does that look like the path? Like does that
• 1:04:09
  look like the way? Does that look like what I
• 1:04:12
  would want to chain myself to? And then that you're
• 1:04:15
  on the journey. But there was one guy that was like, guys,
• 1:04:19
  I'm literally, I'm literally that whatever you're asking for, I'm
• 1:04:23
  literally that, And then here's how you do it. I'm
• 1:04:25
  giving you a church, I'm giving you apostles. I'm giving
• 1:04:28
  you a lot of books. I'm giving you a bunch
• 1:04:30
  of rules just so you can follow, so that you
• 1:04:32
  know it's there. But really this is also that you
• 1:04:35
  will spend time with me, and I will love you,
• 1:04:38
  and then you'll know that love and you'll feel that love,
• 1:04:41
  and then you'll give that love to other people. And
• 1:04:43
  then at the end of this, all the great big reveal.
• 1:04:48
  We're like, I'm going to spend forever with you and
• 1:04:51
  there will be no more pain, and it will be
• 1:04:53
  beautiful and amazing, and I've prepared a place for you specifically,
• 1:04:58
  And all I'm saying is keep trying. That's the one message.
• 1:05:03
  That's the Christian message.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: I really like this, this journey that you're talking about.
• 1:05:09
  So many of us are looking for answers, and you
• 1:05:13
  might have someone come up to you and it's like, how,
• 1:05:15
  like what is my answer to this? Like what what
• 1:05:17
  do I need to do to fix this or this
• 1:05:19
  or that. It's like, I want you to give me
• 1:05:21
  a very concrete thing in the moment that will fix
• 1:05:25
  my life forever. And there's not really something like that
• 1:05:32
  in the straightforward since it's not really just something that's
• 1:05:35
  like and now blah, your life is exactly what you
• 1:05:39
  want it to be because it is a journey, and yes,
• 1:05:43
  Jesus is the very core of this, and it is
• 1:05:47
  a journey to God. But like, and it is very
• 1:05:52
  true to say that, like Jesus is the answer. But
• 1:05:56
  if if a random stranger comes up to you and
• 1:05:58
  it's like, how do I fix this? And you say Jesus,
• 1:06:01
  and then he's like who. Then you realize it's not
• 1:06:04
  just saying at one point that like Jesus is Lord,
• 1:06:11
  because if you don't understand what that means, it makes
• 1:06:14
  absolutely it.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: It's just like you just.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: Said some sounds, you know, and and it's this journey
• 1:06:21
  of understanding. It's just like, what what defines us?
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I want to go find it.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: I want to go look God in the face so
• 1:06:32
  that I can feel I now understand what defines me,
• 1:06:38
  but I cannot understand it right now.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: Like it's it's not something where it's just like what
• 1:06:43
  is your identity? What is it that makes you who
• 1:06:45
  you are? It's like I don't know.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: I don't know, and I'll admit that, but I'm not
• 1:06:54
  gonna give up on looking. It's like, intellectually, I can
• 1:06:57
  say God defines me this or that, but that's not
• 1:07:01
  the same thing as believing it, because there's some inner
• 1:07:06
  understanding of what I think I am differs from who
• 1:07:10
  I am, and who I am is defined by God.
• 1:07:12
  But what I think I am my goal is to
• 1:07:15
  get what I think I am to correlate perfectly with
• 1:07:18
  who I am, which is what God thinks I am,
• 1:07:21
  which is someone he can love. So when you're like
• 1:07:29
  on this journey looking, it's like, how do how do
• 1:07:31
  I find that to hold on to? Well, you look
• 1:07:35
  not in the moment only, but around you, in your
• 1:07:40
  past and in your near future. It's like this progress,
• 1:07:43
  this journey you're on, and you find that which brings
• 1:07:47
  you peace. You find that which hasn't changed from the winds,
• 1:07:51
  You find that which hasn't changed from the fire or
• 1:07:54
  the water, and you realize that this thing that I
• 1:07:58
  was holding on to that was step away, this thing
• 1:08:01
  was burnt away, but then there's still something there. And
• 1:08:04
  the thing that doesn't change won't change. So that when
• 1:08:07
  you're in the tormrals of life, floating this way and
• 1:08:11
  that way, like life is chaotic, it hurts, it's hard.
• 1:08:14
  I mean that's life because it's a journey, a journey
• 1:08:18
  to find this safety, a journey to find this island
• 1:08:21
  of refuge, this place where the fires won't burn you,
• 1:08:25
  this place where love is real, where there is no hurt.
• 1:08:29
  It's a journey, and it's not a journey we're on
• 1:08:32
  alone because there is a light guiding us. Sometimes all
• 1:08:36
  we have to do is open our eyes and see
• 1:08:38
  the lights. Sometimes all we have to do is raise
• 1:08:42
  our hands and let someone else scrap onto it and
• 1:08:45
  show us the way. And that's hard because it takes humility,
• 1:08:50
  and it takes sacrifice, self sacrifice.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: But it's like, who are.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: We children of God? And God is here to pull
• 1:09:02
  us so he can show us so that who we
• 1:09:04
  think we are correlates with who we are. So right now,
• 1:09:09
  who am I two different people in my mind? Who
• 1:09:13
  I truly am and who I think I am, and
• 1:09:15
  those are separate, and that causes me great pain, and
• 1:09:19
  that causes a lot of issues in my life. That
• 1:09:22
  causes damage in my relationships. That causes this, and it
• 1:09:26
  causes that because who I think I am isn't who
• 1:09:30
  I am, and I'm fighting myself.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: And that hurts.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: I take you a step further, okay, I, it's there.
• 1:09:44
  If someone asks who are you? You could say who
• 1:09:47
  God thinks I am and who the devil tells me
• 1:09:50
  I am? Who got who God says I am? And
• 1:09:52
  who who the devil tells me I am? And that
• 1:09:54
  brings me great pain because ultimately it's not that you think.
• 1:09:59
  It is that the devil gives you his own thoughts
• 1:10:01
  about you, and then you're like, oh, these are my thoughts.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: He gives you his own thoughts about you, and then
• 1:10:08
  he tells you that God's thoughts about you aren't reliable,
• 1:10:11
  which is what I talked about a couple of weeks ago,
• 1:10:13
  where it's like all the devil can do is tell
• 1:10:17
  you that what God said is not true.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I did not mean to make that too
• 1:10:23
  trivialize what you said. That was that I've never thought
• 1:10:26
  about that before, but that is ultimately it's the disconnection,
• 1:10:29
  like when you said I want to bring who I
• 1:10:31
  think I am, like when I think about myself, I
• 1:10:36
  want to bring who I think about myself to be
• 1:10:38
  totally aligned with who God says and knows I am.
• 1:10:41
  And that is like I didn't like that is really
• 1:10:44
  what the like, the whole journey is because what you
• 1:10:47
  said earlier about Catholics all think it's it's action, right,
• 1:10:53
  it is action, but that comes later like that is
• 1:10:56
  just a separate thing that you don't understand until you're
• 1:10:59
  aware of your idea entity. And so it's like personally
• 1:11:03
  in my life, I went through this transformation where I
• 1:11:07
  was like, what I'm doing is not good. My life
• 1:11:10
  is miserable. I feel miserable. Everyone that I know around
• 1:11:12
  me is like, would not really like what I've been doing,
• 1:11:15
  So I'm going to not do that. I'm going to
• 1:11:16
  do it everything I knew I should have done, and
• 1:11:18
  I'm just going to do it, and I'm going to
• 1:11:20
  do it. And I was white knuckling it. I was praying,
• 1:11:23
  I was writing, journaling, doing these things I had to do,
• 1:11:26
  going to mask, going to confession. But inside I was miserable,
• 1:11:31
  but outside I was doing it, and I was like,
• 1:11:34
  this is how it is, this is why I never
• 1:11:36
  wanted to do it, but I'm doing it this time.
• 1:11:38
  And I was miserable. And I did not have i'ven't
• 1:11:42
  hitting this thing a lot. I did not have the
• 1:11:44
  love of Jesus and understanding of who I was. So
• 1:11:47
  when it came down to like when I was in
• 1:11:49
  a hard spot or I was in a relationship with
• 1:11:52
  someone and I was I was coming into contact with like,
• 1:11:56
  oh my gosh, I don't like love this person. I
• 1:12:00
  I don't feel love, I don't feel appreciation. I don't
• 1:12:03
  feel love for anyone. I don't like being around my parents,
• 1:12:06
  I don't like my friends. I don't have real friendships,
• 1:12:08
  and it was like all this stuff came up because
• 1:12:09
  I was like, Okay, I thought if I did everything
• 1:12:12
  right that I'd be able to do this, but now
• 1:12:14
  I can't do this. But it all was because I
• 1:12:18
  had no idea that what I believed on a deeper
• 1:12:22
  level was my identity was unlovable, broken, that God wasn't
• 1:12:26
  real and he didn't really love me, that none of
• 1:12:28
  this was real, and that's what led to all this pain.
• 1:12:31
  So even though I was technically doing moral actions and
• 1:12:35
  I was living by the law, my heart was not transformed.
• 1:12:39
  And even now when I think of myself, I'm like,
• 1:12:44
  I think, oh, you know, this is who I am.
• 1:12:46
  Da da da da da dah. Basically, I will never
• 1:12:49
  think of myself independently the way that God thinks about me.
• 1:12:56
  But I can learn to only believe what God says
• 1:12:59
  about about me. So it doesn't really involve me thinking
• 1:13:02
  about myself. It just involves me knowing and trusting what
• 1:13:06
  God says more than what I think. Does that make sense?
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: I think that that's like the knowing versus thinking is
• 1:13:15
  a huge difference. Like as I was saying at the beginning,
• 1:13:17
  it's like that the sense of self that I have.
• 1:13:20
  It's like I know that I exist. It's not the
• 1:13:23
  fact that I think that makes me exist, but like
• 1:13:26
  it's irrefutable.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: I know that I exist in some way, and that
• 1:13:30
  is a knowledge, it's not a thought.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: And to be able to distinguish knowledge from thoughts is
• 1:13:37
  a very important thing. And that and that that that
• 1:13:43
  is the journey we're on to try to distinguish our
• 1:13:47
  reality from our perceptions of reality.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: Because your perceptions of reality, that's what the devil messes with,
• 1:13:56
  and then that's what we think is real. But that's
• 1:13:58
  not real. It's crazy. But it's so hard to see
• 1:14:02
  if you're still in it. And that's but that's the
• 1:14:05
  reason for the whole message of like trust in the
• 1:14:09
  Word of God, go to church, be in confession, pray,
• 1:14:13
  because you're like, when you're outside of it, you can
• 1:14:16
  see it, but when you're inside of it, you just
• 1:14:19
  don't see it. And so people are like, I know
• 1:14:21
  you don't see it, but just do it. But then
• 1:14:24
  the problem is they don't really like communicate that in love,
• 1:14:27
  and it's more of like just do it. But ultimately
• 1:14:30
  it's coming from a place of care. The ones that
• 1:14:32
  actually see what this all leads to and usually, like
• 1:14:36
  you said earlier, you were like, you don't want to
• 1:14:41
  just tell someone who is having a problem, well, Jesus
• 1:14:43
  is your answer. Jesus is your answer because they're like,
• 1:14:46
  you know, that doesn't do any good. But ultimately you're
• 1:14:50
  supposed to be Jesus for them, right then, so that
• 1:14:53
  might be saying different things. Sometimes you're Jesus' mouth, sometimes
• 1:14:57
  you're his ears, sometimes you're his foot, sometimes you're his hands,
• 1:15:00
  and you get to be Jesus. That's why you're You're
• 1:15:03
  a body, you're his body. That's what that means. And
• 1:15:06
  then so the answer is still always going to be
• 1:15:09
  it is Jesus. I'm not going to say that because
• 1:15:12
  your perception of Jesus is not true. It's from the devil.
• 1:15:16
  So I'm not going to tell you again that the
• 1:15:18
  devil is your answer. But I'm going to be Jesus
• 1:15:23
  for you, and that's going to blow away all of
• 1:15:25
  your perceptions. It's going to make you question. Wait, I
• 1:15:28
  didn't think that this kind of love was possible, because
• 1:15:31
  in your conception of things, it is impossible. But you
• 1:15:35
  are living and that's what the renewal of your mind is.
• 1:15:38
  Pray for the renewal of your mind. It's to be
• 1:15:41
  it's to have all of that stuff done away with
• 1:15:45
  and it's replaced and crowded out by the Word of God,
• 1:15:48
  which is true, and that's how things really are. And
• 1:15:52
  then then you're happy. Then you live a life, Then
• 1:15:54
  you're you smile when you're going to get murdered as
• 1:15:56
  a as a martyr and a saint. And that's what
• 1:15:58
  we're all. That's what's possible for us right now. It's
• 1:16:02
  not it's like it's a journey, but also it's as
• 1:16:06
  true as it will be when we're at you know.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: And I think one of the biggest issues with a
• 1:16:15
  lot of people's perceptions of how to evangelize is that
• 1:16:19
  we all think we need to make other people think
• 1:16:23
  that Jesus is Lord. But that's not the point of evangelizing.
• 1:16:27
  The point of evangelizing isn't to have other people think
• 1:16:30
  that Jesus is Lord. It's to show other people so
• 1:16:32
  that they may know that Jesus is Lord. And it's
• 1:16:36
  a minute difference in some people's minds, but it must seed.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: Is the kingdom of heaving is a muster seed.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: All we can do is plant seeds such that people
• 1:16:45
  can grow into knowledge. We can't just provide arguments that
• 1:16:50
  then they think this way because thought isn't true reality.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: Because it's about the heart.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: It's about the heart.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: That's like the number one one thing that it's like
• 1:17:00
  about the heart. I think the knowing that you're talking
• 1:17:03
  about is what hell goes on in your heart.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: Anything you want to say, I'm going a lot. Sorry, No,
• 1:17:15
  I was a really good We.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: Need to do more on these topics, I think.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 4: I think this is a great discussion, and hopefully we've
• 1:17:23
  understood more things such in the future we can have
• 1:17:26
  a more pinpointed discussion on some aspects of identity. I
• 1:17:31
  think this could definitely be a part for eventually just
• 1:17:36
  so much beauty here. But does anyone have any final
• 1:17:40
  thoughts on who we are or think we are or
• 1:17:43
  say we are? Then let's try to orient ourselves towards
• 1:17:50
  that in.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: Which we truly are.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 4: However we can do that, but let's in this moment
• 1:17:56
  do it as a prayer to God, our Father, Son,
• 1:18:00
  Holy Spirit. Amen, Lord God, you who have created this
• 1:18:07
  beautiful world, you who have affused us with being and knowledge,
• 1:18:14
  and and have given us such gifts. We pray that
• 1:18:19
  your presence may live in our lives and enlighten our
• 1:18:23
  our load, that you may pull us into you. For
• 1:18:28
  we turn from you, we fear you, and we flee
• 1:18:32
  from you. We hide from you, and we hurt ourselves
• 1:18:36
  and we confuse ourselves. But you're just there, willing to
• 1:18:39
  hold us. We pray that we may turn to you
• 1:18:44
  and hold your hand and find our way through your help,
• 1:18:50
  to your loving embrace. We ask this in your name, Amen,
• 1:18:56
  son Amen, and we'll.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: See you next week and next week on spire Spire.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: What's the point of that? Wait, what's the point of
• 1:19:10
  who we are? We never brought in the pun aspire
• 1:19:16
  the point of who we are?
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: There we go all right, peace see