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Chief in Tech S1E68 - Payal Nanjiani : Make It to the Top – What It Takes to Get to the Next Level · Chief in Tech Deep Dive Shortcast

• 0:00
  You know that feeling when you're at the gym
• 0:02
  and you step onto the treadmill? You hit the
• 0:05
  quick start button, you crank the incline all
• 0:07
  the way up to like 15. Oh yeah, the maximum incline.
• 0:09
  Exactly. You bump up the speed and you just start
• 0:12
  grinding. I mean, you are sweating through your
• 0:15
  shirt. Right. Your heart rate is completely maxed
• 0:17
  out. Every muscle in your legs is just burning
• 0:19
  and you are giving it absolutely everything you
• 0:22
  have in the tank. It is just this massive expenditure
• 0:25
  of physical energy. You feel completely drained,
• 0:27
  totally exhausted. Completely. But then, after
• 0:32
  all that blood, sweat, and tears, you hit the
• 0:33
  stop button, the belt slows down, you step off
• 0:36
  the machine, you look around the room, and you
• 0:39
  realize you haven't actually gone anywhere. You're
• 0:42
  in the exact same spot. Right. You are standing
• 0:44
  in the exact same square foot of space that you
• 0:47
  were an hour ago. You expended all of that intense
• 0:49
  energy just to stay in place. It's the illusion
• 0:53
  of forward momentum. I mean, we often mistake
• 0:55
  the feeling of sheer exhaustion for actual progress.
• 0:58
  And that exhausting illusion of momentum is the
• 1:01
  exact trap we are dismantling today in this deep
• 1:04
  dive. It really is a trap. We got our hands on
• 1:07
  some saved session notes from a highly exclusive
• 1:09
  career workshop. And our mission today is to
• 1:12
  figure out why doing your job flawlessly is often,
• 1:15
  well, the absolute worst way to get promoted.
• 1:18
  Which sounds so backwards, right? It totally
• 1:20
  does. The title of this workshop alone is a massive
• 1:23
  hook. It's called Make it to the Top. What it
• 1:25
  takes to get to the next level. Such a great
• 1:27
  title. So we are going to break down the uncomfortable
• 1:30
  truth about career advancement, and we'll explore
• 1:33
  the specific internal mindset shift required
• 1:36
  to unlock your actual leadership powers. So,
• 1:39
  okay, let's unpack this. The opening premise
• 1:41
  of these session notes hits incredibly hard,
• 1:44
  mainly because it targets a very specific pain
• 1:46
  point for mid -career professionals. Yeah, it
• 1:48
  really zeroes in on that. It lays out a scenario
• 1:50
  you might literally be living right now. You
• 1:52
  know, you are working hard, you are sustaining
• 1:55
  your job, you are highly competent in your field.
• 1:57
  On paper, life is totally fine. Exactly. On paper,
• 2:01
  you are hitting your KPIs, your projects are
• 2:03
  delivered on time, your annual reviews are solid,
• 2:06
  but there is this lingering, agonizing friction.
• 2:09
  It's that sensation of hitting an invisible ceiling.
• 2:12
  You look around at your industry and you see
• 2:14
  other people passing you by. And you're just
• 2:16
  stuck. Right. And the notes point out a universal
• 2:20
  truth here. We all want that forward momentum.
• 2:23
  We desire promotion, salary increases, better
• 2:26
  titles, and, you know, a seat at the bigger table.
• 2:29
  We inherently want to make it to the top. But
• 2:32
  the text draws a massive line in the sand regarding
• 2:35
  how we actually obtain those things. Oh, a huge
• 2:37
  line. It states unequivocally that you cannot
• 2:40
  just ask for these rewards with your hands out.
• 2:42
  You cannot expect the promotion simply because
• 2:45
  you have been a good, reliable employee for the
• 2:47
  last three years. Right. The most paradigm shifting
• 2:50
  quote from this opening section is a direct challenge
• 2:52
  to the way we work. It says, hard work and effort
• 2:56
  does not equal promotion and growth. Which brings
• 2:59
  me right back to that treadmill analogy. Honestly,
• 3:01
  you are sitting at your desk answering emails
• 3:03
  at 9 p .m. on a Tuesday. The worst. You are volunteering
• 3:07
  for extra administrative tasks. You are agonizing
• 3:10
  over the font choice on a slide deck. Just burning
• 3:13
  energy. Exactly. You are running as fast as you
• 3:16
  can on that corporate treadmill, sweating and
• 3:18
  exhausted, doing all of this just to sustain
• 3:21
  your current position. Yeah. You aren't actually
• 3:23
  hiking up the mountain toward the top. You're
• 3:25
  just running at maximum speed to keep yourself
• 3:27
  from falling off the back of the belt. And that
• 3:30
  illusion of momentum, it's actually deeply rooted
• 3:32
  in how high achievers are conditioned from a
• 3:35
  very young age. Oh, that makes so much sense.
• 3:37
  Like from school. Exactly. Think about the psychological
• 3:40
  contract we signed when we entered the education
• 3:42
  system. For the first two decades of our lives,
• 3:45
  the rules are basically mathematical. Right.
• 3:47
  Input equals output. Yes. You put your head down,
• 3:50
  you study for 10 hours, you memorize the flashcards,
• 3:53
  and you are guaranteed the A. Effort is directly
• 3:57
  correlated to the reward. And then we graduate
• 4:00
  and just assume it keeps working that way. We
• 4:02
  enter the professional world assuming the corporate
• 4:04
  ecosystem operates on that exact same academic
• 4:06
  metric. We think we are literally still in school.
• 4:10
  We believe that if we just sit quietly in our
• 4:12
  cubicle and produce glowing spreadsheets, the
• 4:14
  CEO is going to walk by like a proud teacher.
• 4:17
  Like they're handing out grades. Yeah, they'll
• 4:19
  notice our hard work and tap us on the shoulder
• 4:21
  with a promotion and a gold star. But that is
• 4:24
  the fundamental friction here. The modern workplace
• 4:26
  is not a classroom. It is a highly complex, chaotic
• 4:30
  social ecosystem. It's wild out there. It really
• 4:33
  is. Sustaining your job, even doing it flawlessly,
• 4:36
  is just the baseline requirement to keep your
• 4:38
  keycard working. It's the bare minimum. Wow.
• 4:40
  So just doing the job perfectly is the bare minimum.
• 4:43
  Exactly. When you are just running on the treadmill
• 4:45
  of daily tasks, you are proving you have stamina.
• 4:49
  You are proving you can handle volume. Right.
• 4:53
  But you are completely failing to prove that
• 4:55
  you know how to navigate the dangerous, unpredictable
• 4:57
  terrain outside the gym. So getting off the treadmill
• 5:00
  requires a totally different set of tools. But
• 5:03
  recognizing you need a new approach is really
• 5:05
  only half the battle. True. Because if treading
• 5:08
  water and grinding through an 80 hour work week
• 5:10
  isn't the trigger for a salary raise or real
• 5:13
  visibility, what is? Well, this is where the
• 5:15
  session notes introduce the central thesis of
• 5:18
  the entire workshop. And it requires a radical
• 5:21
  reallocation of where you actually spend your
• 5:23
  energy. Yeah, the source material delivers a
• 5:26
  heavy hitting quote that honestly made me stop
• 5:28
  in my tracks when I first read it. It's a bold
• 5:30
  statement. Very bold. The notes argue that you
• 5:32
  only get those accolades, promotions, and achievements
• 5:35
  when you, and I'm quoting directly here, work
• 5:38
  on yourself harder than you work on your job.
• 5:40
  Work on yourself harder than you work on your
• 5:43
  job. It's a profound inside out approach to career
• 5:47
  trajectory. But I have to push back here. I really
• 5:50
  do. OK, let's hear it. Because this work on yourself
• 5:53
  idea sounds amazing on like a motivational bumper
• 5:56
  sticker, but let's talk about reality for a second.
• 5:59
  Sure. If I am a software engineer, and my code
• 6:02
  keeps crashing the company's servers, my boss
• 6:05
  does not care one bit about my internal self
• 6:09
  -mastery or my spiritual growth. Right, they
• 6:11
  want the servers back online. They want the code
• 6:14
  fixed immediately. So if I am being paid for
• 6:17
  a specific output, shouldn't my absolute primary
• 6:21
  focus be on mastering that job? Fair point. Like
• 6:25
  how on earth Can I justify spending more energy
• 6:28
  on myself than on the very thing keeping the
• 6:31
  company afloat? It is a totally valid pushback.
• 6:34
  But we have to look at how Payal Nanjiani, the
• 6:37
  creator of this workshop, frames the reality
• 6:39
  of the talent pool. OK. She points out a crucial
• 6:43
  fact in the text. The reason people fail to make
• 6:46
  it to the top is not because of a lack of information,
• 6:49
  abilities, or skills. Meaning it's not a technical
• 6:53
  deficit holding people back. Exactly. Let's use
• 6:56
  your software engineer example. To get hired
• 6:58
  in the first place, you need the coding skills.
• 7:02
  To sustain your job and fix the crashing servers,
• 7:04
  you need that technical ability. Right. You have
• 7:07
  to know how to code. But here is the brutal truth
• 7:10
  of the corporate world. Everyone else competing
• 7:12
  for that senior VP of engineering role also has
• 7:15
  those flawless coding skills. Oh, wow. Technical
• 7:18
  mastery is a commodity. It is just the baseline
• 7:22
  operating requirement. So the skills just get
• 7:24
  you in the door. Think of it like a computer
• 7:26
  system. You can download all the cutting edge
• 7:29
  coding skills, the software, you want. But if
• 7:33
  your internal operating system, like your mindset,
• 7:36
  your emotional regulation, your resilience, if
• 7:38
  that keeps crashing every time the CPU is under
• 7:40
  pressure, that expensive software is completely
• 7:43
  useless. That makes a lot of sense, actually.
• 7:45
  Right. When an organization is looking to elevate
• 7:47
  someone to the executive level, they aren't looking
• 7:50
  for the person who types the fastest code. Because
• 7:52
  they can just hire someone cheaper to do that.
• 7:54
  Exactly. They are looking for the person with
• 7:56
  the internal operating system capable of handling
• 7:59
  a PR crisis without panicking. They want someone
• 8:01
  who can navigate ruthless office politics with
• 8:05
  grace. And who can command a boardroom full of
• 8:07
  angry investors. Spot on. OK, that makes perfect
• 8:10
  sense. Working on the job makes you a great,
• 8:13
  reliable employee. But working on your internal
• 8:16
  operating system makes you a leader. You have
• 8:18
  to cultivate a personal infrastructure so robust
• 8:21
  that success isn't something you have to aggressively
• 8:23
  chase down. Right. It becomes a natural byproduct
• 8:27
  of who you have evolved into. That's what Pyle
• 8:30
  means by her trademarked motto. Leadership starts
• 8:33
  and ends with you. Oh, I see. When you upgrade
• 8:36
  your internal OS, you aren't desperately sliding
• 8:39
  your resume across a desk. You are projecting
• 8:41
  such a high level of self -mastery that the organization
• 8:45
  realizes they desperately need your stability.
• 8:48
  in their leadership ranks. Job offers literally
• 8:50
  begin to follow you. Precisely. Well, here's
• 8:53
  where it gets really interesting, though. Upgrading
• 8:55
  your internal operating system sounds great in
• 8:58
  theory, but the workshop notes actually outline
• 9:00
  three highly specific actionable takeaways to
• 9:03
  accomplish this. Yes, very specific. And the
• 9:06
  first one caught me totally off guard. The text
• 9:08
  promises to help you identify a critical element
• 9:11
  that successful women practice to be great leaders.
• 9:13
  It is a very deliberate distinction to make in
• 9:15
  a general leadership workshop. I am absolutely
• 9:18
  fascinated by this specificity. The text implies
• 9:21
  there is a unique navigational tool or like a
• 9:24
  specific internal practice utilized specifically
• 9:27
  by female leaders who have managed to break through
• 9:29
  to the top. Right. The notes don't give away
• 9:31
  the entire secret sauce in this summary. But
• 9:33
  why do you think this distinction exists? Why
• 9:36
  do women need a specific element that maybe isn't
• 9:39
  as critical for their male counterparts? Well,
• 9:41
  if we look at the psychological landscape of
• 9:43
  corporate leadership. Female leaders historically
• 9:46
  face a labyrinth of unique hurdles. That's very
• 9:48
  true. They are often navigating the notorious
• 9:50
  double bind. If they are too assertive, they
• 9:53
  are penalized for being aggressive. Right. But
• 9:55
  if they are too empathetic, they are penalized
• 9:57
  for being weak. Exactly. Yeah. They are walking
• 9:59
  a razor thin tightrope every single time they
• 10:02
  step into a meeting. So the standard aggressive
• 10:04
  1980s corporate playbook just doesn't work for
• 10:07
  them at all. It backfires entirely. Therefore,
• 10:10
  Women who successfully reach the apex of their
• 10:13
  industries have had to develop a highly advanced
• 10:15
  internal navigational system. They can't rely
• 10:18
  on the old rules. Now they've had to master reading
• 10:21
  the room, managing their own reactions to microaggressions,
• 10:25
  and projecting authority without triggering the
• 10:27
  biases of their peers. Wow. Whatever this specific
• 10:30
  element is that Payal teaches, it is likely born
• 10:33
  out of necessity. It's a survival tool that evolved
• 10:36
  into an undeniable leadership superpower. Which
• 10:39
  flows perfectly into the second major takeaway
• 10:41
  of the workshop, which is identifying and closing
• 10:44
  the gap. And this raises an important question
• 10:47
  for you, the listener. Where does the gap exist
• 10:50
  in your own professional life? Yeah, how do they
• 10:53
  define that gap? Piles Framework defines this
• 10:56
  gap as the void between your current leadership
• 10:59
  capability and your actual desired business impact.
• 11:03
  So it's basically the difference between potential
• 11:06
  and execution? Exactly. And consider the brilliant
• 11:09
  strategist who has a mind -blowing idea to save
• 11:11
  the company millions. But their internal operating
• 11:14
  system freezes up with anxiety the moment they
• 11:16
  have to actually present it to the board. Oh,
• 11:19
  that happens all the time. Right. Their capability
• 11:21
  is massive, but their actual business impact
• 11:24
  is zero. That space in between, that is the gap.
• 11:28
  And the tool the workshop offers to close that
• 11:31
  gap is the third major takeaway. This is where
• 11:33
  we get into the heavy lifting of the self -work
• 11:36
  paradigm. The real internal work. Yeah. The notes
• 11:39
  promise that you will learn and apply Pyle's
• 11:42
  metacognition technique. And it doesn't just
• 11:44
  promise that this will make you feel a little
• 11:46
  bit better during a stressful day. No. It promises
• 11:49
  unshakable confidence. Unshakable is a massive
• 11:52
  claim. And to achieve it, we really have to understand
• 11:55
  what metacognition actually is. Yeah, break that
• 11:58
  down for us. In psychological terms, metacognition
• 12:01
  simply means thinking about your own thinking.
• 12:04
  Thinking about your thinking? Yes. It is the
• 12:08
  real -time awareness and regulation of your own
• 12:10
  cognitive processes. But how does thinking about
• 12:14
  my thinking actually translate to a promotion?
• 12:16
  What is the actual mechanism there? It sounds
• 12:18
  a bit abstract. It does. If I sit at my desk
• 12:21
  pondering my own thoughts, how does that make
• 12:23
  me a VP? Let's walk through a granular real -world
• 12:26
  example of this mechanism in action. Imagine
• 12:29
  you are in a high -stakes board meeting. Okay,
• 12:31
  I'm there. You've just presented your quarterly
• 12:33
  strategy, and a senior executive aggressively
• 12:36
  tears it apart in front of everyone. Oh, man.
• 12:39
  They call your numbers naive and your timeline
• 12:41
  impossible. Ouch. My heart rate is spiking just
• 12:44
  thinking about it. A standard employee, someone
• 12:46
  who only works on their job, not on themselves,
• 12:49
  gets trapped in the emotion right there. Their
• 12:51
  internal OS crashes. They take it personally.
• 12:53
  Right. They get defensive. They face flushes.
• 12:56
  They argue back emotionally. Or they completely
• 12:58
  shut down and apologize profusely. And the executive
• 13:01
  just sees someone who cannot handle pressure.
• 13:03
  Exactly. They see a liability, not a leader.
• 13:06
  Right. Now, imagine an employee who has mastered
• 13:09
  metacognition. The executive tears the presentation
• 13:12
  apart. The employee feels that immediate sting
• 13:14
  of panic and embarrassment. Because you can't
• 13:16
  stop the feeling. You can't. But instead of reacting,
• 13:20
  they use metacognition to step back in real time.
• 13:23
  They observe their own panic as if from a balcony.
• 13:25
  Oh, wow. OK. So they distance themselves from
• 13:28
  it. Exactly. They neutralize the emotion instantly,
• 13:31
  thinking, I am feeling attacked right now, but
• 13:33
  this isn't a threat to my survival. This is just
• 13:36
  a stress test of the data. They become the director
• 13:39
  of the movie in their head rather than an actor
• 13:42
  trapped in the panic scene. And because they
• 13:44
  control that narrative, they respond with calm,
• 13:47
  detached curiosity. That completely changes the
• 13:51
  dynamic. It does. They look the executive in
• 13:54
  the eye and say, That's an interesting critique
• 13:56
  of the timeline. Let's dig into the Q3 projections
• 13:59
  together and see where the disconnect is. Wow.
• 14:03
  So the executive doesn't see a defensive, crumbling
• 14:06
  employee anymore? Not at all. They see a resilient,
• 14:09
  unshakable leader who remains surgical under
• 14:12
  fire. That is how the internal work triggers
• 14:16
  the external promotion. Because your confidence
• 14:19
  is no longer tied to external praise, it is entirely
• 14:22
  self -generated. It is entirely unshakable. because
• 14:26
  you control the thermostat in the room. But,
• 14:29
  you know, to really buy into these high -level
• 14:32
  techniques, to believe that managing your internal
• 14:34
  monologue will actually result in tangible career
• 14:37
  growth and massive salary bumps, we need to understand
• 14:40
  the architect behind this entire philosophy.
• 14:43
  The messenger's just as important as the message.
• 14:45
  Exactly. Like, who exactly is Payal Nanjiani?
• 14:48
  Well, the source material gives us a very clear
• 14:50
  picture of her pedigree, and it is vital for
• 14:53
  validating these concepts. This isn't just...
• 14:54
  theoretical psychology. Yeah, her bio is staggering.
• 14:58
  I mean, Payal Nanjiani is recognized by the Times
• 15:01
  Group. She is an Indian -American globally acclaimed
• 15:04
  leadership expert, an executive coach and a New
• 15:07
  York award winning author. It's an impressive
• 15:10
  resume. And she isn't just coaching entry level
• 15:13
  staff either. The text specifically notes that
• 15:14
  she has private access to and advises leaders
• 15:17
  of Fortune 500 companies, CEOs, founders and
• 15:20
  government officials across various industries.
• 15:23
  That level of access is critical. She isn't guessing
• 15:26
  at what works from the sidelines. She's in the
• 15:28
  room where it happens. She is in the room with
• 15:31
  the people who have already reached the absolute
• 15:32
  apex of their industries. She is analyzing their
• 15:36
  internal mechanics, observing how they navigate
• 15:38
  crisis. And distilling those elite psychological
• 15:41
  frameworks down into this workshop. Precisely.
• 15:44
  The notes also mention that in 2019 she launched
• 15:47
  the Payal Nanjiani leadership podcast. It's weighted
• 15:50
  in the top 10 percent globally and she features
• 15:52
  prominent leaders, CEOs, and interestingly, spiritual
• 15:56
  gurus. Notice that intentional blending of worlds
• 15:58
  there. Yeah, it's a unique mix. She is bringing
• 16:01
  spiritual gurus, masters of the internal world,
• 16:05
  into the exact same conversation as Fortune 500
• 16:08
  CEOs, the masters of the external corporate world.
• 16:11
  So what does this all mean for you, the listener?
• 16:14
  sitting in your office right now. That's the
• 16:16
  real question. Synthesizing her bio tells us
• 16:19
  that Payal isn't just a motivational speaker
• 16:21
  who is going to pump you up with empty slogans
• 16:24
  and send you back to run faster on your treadmill.
• 16:27
  No, not at all. She is a trusted advisor hired
• 16:29
  by massive organizations for one specific reason,
• 16:32
  which the text explicitly highlights. She is
• 16:35
  there to deliver measurable, lasting transformation.
• 16:39
  Measurable and lasting. That proves that this
• 16:41
  internal self -work has a hard, undeniable ROI
• 16:45
  in the most cutthroat corporate environments
• 16:47
  on earth. It actually translates to the bottom
• 16:49
  line. It does. Her overarching mission is to
• 16:52
  help people believe in their innate ability to
• 16:54
  lead and succeed. She's taking these deeply internal
• 16:57
  concepts like metacognition, closing the capability
• 17:00
  gap, building unshakable confidence, and directly
• 17:04
  aligning them with tangible business goals. She
• 17:06
  is building future ready leaders. Because the
• 17:08
  future of work isn't about who has the best technical
• 17:11
  skills, right? I mean, AI and automation are
• 17:13
  already commoditizing those. They absolutely
• 17:15
  are. The future of leadership belongs to those
• 17:17
  with the strongest, most resilient internal operating
• 17:20
  systems. It really is an incredible paradigm
• 17:24
  shift. You stop asking for promotions with your
• 17:27
  hands out. You stop burning yourself out doing
• 17:29
  busy work at midnight. You simply occupy the
• 17:32
  space of an unshakable leader and the organization
• 17:35
  basically has no choice but to recognize it and
• 17:39
  compensate you for the immense stability you
• 17:41
  bring to the table. You become the person that
• 17:43
  success naturally follows. So let's summarize
• 17:46
  the journey we've been on today. We started by
• 17:49
  confronting the highly uncomfortable truth that
• 17:51
  sustaining your job, grinding it out, and being
• 17:54
  the perfect employee is actually a trap. It is
• 17:57
  the corporate treadmill. We dismantled the myth
• 18:00
  that hard work equals promotion and realized
• 18:02
  that if you feel stuck behind an invisible ceiling,
• 18:05
  a lack of technical skills is likely not your
• 18:08
  problem. The bottleneck is almost entirely internal.
• 18:11
  We discovered that true lasting career growth
• 18:13
  requires a radical reallocation of your energy.
• 18:16
  You have to work harder on yourself than you
• 18:18
  work on your job. You must close the gap. Yes,
• 18:21
  you must close the gap between your potential
• 18:23
  and your impact by mastering your own internal
• 18:26
  reactions through metacognition. And if this
• 18:29
  deep dive has resonated with you, if you are
• 18:31
  tired of running in place and want to explore
• 18:33
  these frameworks further, the session notes point
• 18:36
  directly to her official website. Which is www
• 18:39
  .payalnanjiani .com, right? That's it. You can
• 18:42
  find her books, her podcast, and her resources
• 18:44
  there. As we wrap up today, I want to leave you
• 18:47
  with a final lingering thought. We spent a lot
• 18:50
  of time talking about that opening metaphor,
• 18:52
  the sheer exhaustion of running on the treadmill.
• 18:55
  burning all your energy just to stay in place.
• 18:58
  Right. Desperately hoping a boss notices your
• 19:01
  effort and hands you a reward. But Payal's philosophy
• 19:03
  claims that if you upgrade your internal operating
• 19:06
  system, job offers and success will begin to
• 19:10
  follow you everywhere. It's a total reversal
• 19:12
  of the dynamic. Exactly. So here is my question
• 19:16
  for you to mull over today. If you completely
• 19:18
  stopped handing out your resume tomorrow, if
• 19:21
  you absolutely refuse to ask for a promotion
• 19:23
  or a raise ever again, What a thought. What specific
• 19:28
  radical changes would you need to make to yourself
• 19:30
  internally so that the opportunities started
• 19:33
  hunting you down instead? It might just be time
• 19:36
  to step off the treadmill. Thanks for joining
• 19:38
  us on this deep dive. We'll see you next time.