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202: Trust Matters More Than Ever · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

• 0:02
  Welcome back, revolutionaries.
• 0:04
  And today, I am really excited to be speaking to an old friend, Dr.
• 0:10
  David Horsogger, who's the CEO of TrustEdge Leadership Institute, inventor of the Enterprise Trust Index, director of the global study Trust Outlook, bestselling author of
• 0:27
  four books.
• 0:29
  And David is called by Forbes the world's leading authority on trust.
• 0:34
  That is awesome.
• 0:36
  He has a new book out, only been a few months, called Trust Matters More Than Ever, which Forbes called it the top business book of the year in the end of 2024.
• 0:52
  And he's spoken twice at the customer service revolution.
• 0:57
  conference and has always been the top rated speaker.
• 1:00
  Welcome David.
• 1:02
  Thank you so much.
• 1:03
  Great to be with you.
• 1:04
  Love your work.
• 1:05
  And it's just a treat to be on it.
• 1:06
  This is what gets us to get conversation with you.
• 1:09
  I'm so glad to do it.
• 1:10
  So it's fun to get to see you again here.
• 1:13
  And David, where does this podcast find you?
• 1:17
  I'm in Minneapolis area, Minnesota area, White Bear Lake, Minnesota.
• 1:20
  I'm actually at our offices in White Bear Lake.
• 1:23
  I live about 15 minutes from here out on a little hobby farm.
• 1:27
  Well good, I was hoping you were gonna tell me that's where you're, I know that's where you're from, but because as of this recording, my Cleveland Guardians are in first, and
• 1:35
  the Minnesota Twins, who I know is a client of yours, is in dead last.
• 1:39
  It's only been a few games.
• 1:42
  It shows how good I am.
• 1:46
  I often say that, John.
• 1:48
  So, you know, one of the boards I'm on, you know, I'm the only nonmember of Congress that is out in D.C.
• 1:55
  five times.
• 1:56
  You're bringing Republicans and Democrats together, you know, on this specific board.
• 2:00
  I say, obviously, I'm not very good at it.
• 2:02
  Yeah, it's a rough, it's a rough go out in D.C., but anyway.
• 2:09
  So David, why another book?
• 2:12
  Yep.
• 2:13
  So this book right here, Trust Matters More Than Ever, you everything I do is trust, I stay fresh.
• 2:18
  We're doing research every year.
• 2:20
  We're doing work.
• 2:21
  But when you think of Trust Edge, which is still like selling, it's an evergreen book, 365 pages came out of my original work, original research.
• 2:30
  You know, these days, number one is written 15 years ago, even if it's nevergreen or evergreen.
• 2:37
  It's, you know, it actually a little more than that ago.
• 2:40
  So that's, you know, there was
• 2:42
  We've learned so much in 15 years of using this on six continents and certifying people on every continent except for Antarctica and the work we do with presence of countries and
• 2:52
  companies.
• 2:52
  So that's one thing.
• 2:54
  Number two is what we learned people also want is back then I had to show the research.
• 3:00
  People would argue trust is a soft skill.
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  It doesn't affect the bottom line.
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  And my argument for my grad work was a lack of trust is their biggest expense.
• 3:07
  But nowadays people get it.
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  And so in this book, you'll see like,
• 3:12
  this much research basically to show and prove it quickly and this much in tools.
• 3:17
  And so it's all these actionable tools.
• 3:20
  And each of my books is actionable in a way, but they all had different spaces like trusted leaders still doing really well.
• 3:26
  And it's, you know, it starts with a story for people want to get it through a story and then it gives some actionable business people.
• 3:33
  This is just right Adam.
• 3:35
  This is why it matters.
• 3:36
  This is why it matters to you.
• 3:37
  A lack of trust, your biggest expense, everything of values built on trust.
• 3:40
  You don't have a leadership issue.
• 3:41
  The reason people follow leader, not as trust.
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  You don't have a sales issue.
• 3:43
  The reason people buy trust.
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  Innovation goes up when people trust each other.
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  Otherwise they won't share ideas.
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  Marketing messages are only amplified when I trust the message.
• 3:51
  Like give them quick, the why, the case for trust, the research.
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  And then it is full of tools they can use tomorrow morning.
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  Three pages each.
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  They're just like, how do you build trust in conflict?
• 4:02
  Tool number nine.
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  How do you be clear on expectations?
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  Clarity is one of the pillars of trust.
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  ODC method.
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  How do you get, you
• 4:09
  ask the relevancy questions this method.
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  So how do you how do you cascade trust through a big organization tool number whatever?
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  How do you you know, the the the the the counterforce wheel, I want to see the counterforce wheel so I can diagnose my problem.
• 4:23
  Page 260.
• 4:23
  And you can go to the back and in fact, in this one, this is used even by a PhD program that certifies people if you get a PhD in business management, you get trusted certified.
• 4:36
  And this is the book they use to go like
• 4:39
  learn the tools and apply them and so forth so that you can even go to the back and it's got a cool little grid of the problems you could face.
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  Now use this tool to solve that.
• 4:50
  No, I love it.
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  I have the book.
• 4:52
  have all your books.
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  It's amazing.
• 4:58
  This podcast, I do it for me.
• 5:01
  And so I want to talk about how it affects the customer service revolution, how it affects the employee experience revolution with retaining, especially with what's going on, gen Zs
• 5:15
  and all that.
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  And just as a parent.
• 5:18
  as a significant other.
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  I and I believe, I know your tools apply to all of it, but let's start in the beginning, at the first thing I wanna know.
• 5:31
  Where is trust barometer today?
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  Like, you know, with the politics and, you know, the end runs of the world, which there's, you know, that's always happening.
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  Is it just because it's social media and brought to the forefront?
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  that we seem to trust each other, we're more cynical today, or is that just because of the media channels that we have to bring it to our attention?
• 5:58
  Well, there are things that make it matter more.
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  The truth is trust always mattered.
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  People say, you got such a relevant topic.
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  It's so timely.
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  Well, yes, but it's so timeless.
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  It always was the bottom line.
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  It impacted everything more than anything.
• 6:11
  Maybe to answer that question, I'll give you the quick one minute or one and a half minute history of trust because it can bring us up to where we are today.
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  A long, long time ago, you did not trust.
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  I did not trust for two reasons, right?
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  Because I did not know you.
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  was number one, you live, you're on, you are on that side of the mountain.
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  You look differently, you talk differently, you have a different language, you wear different clothing.
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  I don't trust you because I don't know you.
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  The second reason I did not trust you is because I did know you.
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  I've seen how you act so I didn't trust you, right?
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  So you had two reasons.
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  Then we move a long period of time forward until trust was institutionalized.
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  If we think of America, trust, you you had the, you could trust the institution even if one person wasn't trustworthy.
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  So you had,
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  One bad politician didn't mean you lost trust in the government.
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  One bad teacher and you didn't lose trust in the education system.
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  Then about 30 years ago in America, we had a massive topple of institutional trust.
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  In fact, 30 years ago almost in America, about 80 % of Americans trusted the US government to do basically what was right.
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  Now it's something like 7%.
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  It's crazy that in all of institutional trust has tanked.
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  So government trust tanked.
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  Media trust tanked.
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  That's the only thing worse than government is media.
• 7:26
  And you see it like you remember, John, when we had the news, not anymore.
• 7:31
  You've got your news, you got your news, where do you get your news?
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  used to say we knew people by their checkbook and their date book.
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  And now we say, where do get your news?
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  I know a whole lot about you.
• 7:39
  Just find out where you get your news.
• 7:40
  I know your whole philosophy in life almost.
• 7:43
  I it from TikTok.
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  I know that sounds childish or whatever, but that's where I get it from.
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  I follow the news channels I want to follow, but that's where I get my upbeat besides scanning headline news, but that's not always the best.
• 7:58
  So you have a skewed, you know, the algorithm is playing to you.
• 8:01
  It's playing what you watch.
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  Whether you want to think, I'm centrist and everybody else is way right or way left.
• 8:07
  It's playing to you.
• 8:08
  It's feeding, it's feeding my eyes.
• 8:11
  Your clicks and your biases are being fed and that is a magnificent problem.
• 8:17
  so, but I mean, so you had this period where institutional trust media, know, edu education, when I grew up homeschooling was weird, not anymore.
• 8:26
  They don't trust the system of education.
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  So now homeschooling and all these other types of education are the norm.
• 8:32
  You have food.
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  I grew up in big agriculture, semi loads of kidney boons.
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  Now that restaurant wants to grow them on the rooftop.
• 8:38
  pick him with a white glove and kiss him on the way to the plate.
• 8:40
  They don't trust the institution, right?
• 8:42
  Religion, almost the same number of people in America say today they believe in God as did 80 years ago, but any metric of going or giving, it's down steeply.
• 8:52
  So the institution is in many ways not trusted.
• 8:55
  So then we move forward and you know this distributed trust happened.
• 8:58
  And we see 20 years ago when Airbnb and Uber and Lyft and all of a sudden trust was distributed, blockchain distributed trust.
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  So we have
• 9:06
  This doesn't mean we don't have any trust for institutions.
• 9:09
  It's still got a place.
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  Distributed trust.
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  We grew up saying, don't get in a car with someone you don't know.
• 9:14
  Hey, go for it.
• 9:15
  Don't sleep in someone's place you don't know.
• 9:17
  Yeah, throw out a mattress, call it Airbnb.
• 9:19
  And all of a sudden, everything changes as far as the global trust network.
• 9:23
  Now, what's happened is there's still a place for these.
• 9:28
  But one thing interesting, I think, to this audience is about two years ago, trust came back from
• 9:36
  hundreds of years ago to more personal than ever.
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  And I'm telling you, we are seeing now it is more we want personal.
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  Why we don't trust that we want to smell, touch, see it.
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  You've got to get as personally as you can.
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  Even if that's through technology.
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  A couple of big reasons are we know reviews, Google reviews, other reviews are largely manipulated.
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  So we don't trust that technology.
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  We know, you know, Photoshop, we don't trust what we see.
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  We know deep fakes through video and media.
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  I was just on a stage when they did it live.
• 10:08
  used to have to go manipulate it in the back, you know, in the backend.
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  Now you can do it live on stage and switch the camera to some other person saying something.
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  And it sounds like that CEO just said, leave my company, we're terrible.
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  We hate you.
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  And it wasn't them at all.
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  And just right with a camera move, it visually looked, it sounded like on the Megatrons, it was the CEO again.
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  And of course it wasn't.
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  you have these...
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  magnificent technological deceptions that are making us trust go back to being personal.
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  We really want to trust what's personal to us.
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  Now, that's one, that's the journey.
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  And that what that means to you, what that means to our listeners is how can you make your customer service?
• 10:51
  How can you make your situation more personal?
• 10:55
  Even if you have to use technology, how could you do it?
• 10:58
  it, I just told our team today, it's like, I don't want to manipulate things.
• 11:02
  I want
• 11:03
  like we made in my courses, we don't use synthasia because that's obviously not personal.
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  want to, if I have to do it for Japan, they use my face and they do subtitles.
• 11:17
  We think that's more real.
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  That's one pick, you know, reason I have something where we send a thank you note.
• 11:25
  I want the, even if it's copied and everybody knows it's copied to me.
• 11:30
  the page, this cool little thing we send with our thank you after I speak at events.
• 11:35
  By the way, you're the best at thanking, I know, learned a lot from you, but anyway, I wanted a signature at the end instead of just thank you from David Horstegger and the
• 11:47
  TrustEdge team.
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  And it feels different.
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  It looks, it's more personal.
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  How can we make, even through technology, things more personal?
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  That's gonna matter in our future.
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  So that's a quick journey.
• 11:58
  There are other problems I could get into, you know, with the board.
• 12:01
  Yeah, no, I mean, this is one of the things we want to companies become is the brand that customers, guests, clients, tenants, whatever they are can't live without.
• 12:13
  And one of the six principles in that is the trust issue that they're easy to do business with.
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  They do what they say, zero risk.
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  You're not gonna have to hire an attorney and all that stuff.
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  And so I think it is such an important element.
• 12:33
  where does a CEO leader start with evaluating their
• 12:42
  trust, know, poking for holes, you know, not taking it for granted that everyone trusts us because I believe, and you're the expert here, people are cynical.
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  And if you're not an existing client, you have, I believe we have to get over the snake oil salesman.
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  And so what I want to establish when I'm speaking to an existing or potential client is one, you can trust
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  that we are the ultimate experts at what we do.
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  And then the second thing, and correct me if wrong, that's not the only thing, right?
• 13:17
  It is that we're a human being that will do what we say, we care about you, it's not just about squeezing every ounce of profitability from you.
• 13:27
  So those are the two things I usually have going on that I want to demonstrate, but I may be missing.
• 13:31
  But how do you demonstrate even those things?
• 13:34
  Well, there's the demonstrate.
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  First of all, let's get to your first question, which was measurement.
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  How do I define, how do I see where my gaps are?
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  So I'm going to give you not trying to sell anything, but I'll tell you what we do first.
• 13:44
  And I'll give you a, a, a, a, we kind of sell or, know, and then how you could do this without that.
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  So first of all, you know, we have the top measurement tools on how you measure trust and engagement in organizations.
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  That's why I believe you don't have an engagement issue.
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  You don't get engaged with engagement.
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  You have to increase trust is the leading indicator to more engagement.
• 14:03
  just like trust is the leading indicator to more retention.
• 14:06
  Net promoter score is good, but the problem is you don't get NPS with NPS, you have to increase trust that gets you NPS, right?
• 14:11
  So, first of all, measurement tools.
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  So we use, for instance, an enterprise trust index that we created with 40 years of Accenture data in my grad work, and we measure trust in big organizations, universities,
• 14:23
  and that kind of thing.
• 14:24
  Coming down, we have a team assessment, all of our certified partners can use, self-assessment, 360 trust assessment, all these are trust assessments.
• 14:30
  A customer, a five question customer assessment that would compete with kind of NPS to get the drivers that actually lead to more, you know, retention.
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  So we actually have valid tools to measure trust.
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  That's one thing.
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  Okay.
• 14:42
  That's a over here.
• 14:43
  If anybody's interested, obviously love to help.
• 14:46
  And then David, all your stuff will, and we're gonna provide, but it's gonna be at davidhorsogger.com.
• 14:54
  You can go to David horsehunter.com and then pop over to the Institute or go straight to trust edge.com.
• 15:03
  Both links, trustedge.com and davidforsager.com, besides your social media links.
• 15:12
  Sorry, go, go, continue.
• 15:14
  So that's a way.
• 15:15
  Okay.
• 15:15
  So now let's help people right here without a dime.
• 15:17
  Okay.
• 15:18
  So, so you can measure those and that'll show gaps.
• 15:20
  By the way, we've had companies say in one in, in a day they saved a million dollars because they saw the real gap.
• 15:25
  You can't always see it on your own, but this gives valid way of measuring it and saying, my goodness, that if I just increased that thing, that would increase trust and that would
• 15:34
  get an outcome.
• 15:34
  Okay.
• 15:35
  So that's a B is the framework for how trust is built, you know, not to overdo it, but
• 15:43
  I call them eight pillars of trust today and you know them and you've heard about them, but they start with C words.
• 15:49
  The thing I've got to stop people from thinking is it's kind of some cheesy motivational eight Cs.
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  They each represent a very important research funnel.
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  So you have to measure against these eight.
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  These are eight are how trust is built globally.
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  Everything about trust comes under these eight.
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  It's these eight, they were defined separately.
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  So very quickly, clarity.
• 16:07
  People trust the clear and they mistrust or distrust the ambiguous or the overly complex.
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  Compassion, we trust those that care beyond themselves.
• 16:14
  Character, we trust those that do what's right or what's easy.
• 16:16
  Commitment, we trust those that stay committed in the face of adversity.
• 16:19
  Competent, we trust those that are competent at what they're gonna, like, I might want my airline plan, I might not care so much about the compassion pillar, but boy, I want them
• 16:26
  to be competent flying me there, or I might trust John DeGiulius to take my kids to the ball game because of his character, but I might not trust him to give me a root canal
• 16:36
  because of competency.
• 16:37
  You've gotta be competent.
• 16:38
  This is your world and my world of training and development.
• 16:41
  people, we know that retention goes up, engagement goes up and all host of other things when they get trained.
• 16:46
  Well, next one is connection.
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  We trust those that are willing to collaborate, connect with others.
• 16:50
  Contribution is next pillar and that is a critical pillar because it's the number one word that came out of that research funnel was results.
• 16:58
  We trust those that actually contribute results.
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  You can't just have compassion and character.
• 17:02
  You actually have to deliver results, contribute results.
• 17:04
  And finally is consistency.
• 17:06
  We trust those sameness.
• 17:07
  This is in your world of customer service.
• 17:09
  This is in everything.
• 17:10
  We trust sameness.
• 17:12
  might not like something we trust.
• 17:14
  We may not like McDonald's, but I've had the same burger on six continents.
• 17:18
  We trust sameness.
• 17:20
  If we're good or bad, by the way, if you're late consistently, I will absolutely trust you to be late, right?
• 17:27
  So these eight basic pillars really, this is the framework of how trust is built.
• 17:32
  So if people think of anything globally, it doesn't mean we don't contextualize, we do.
• 17:37
  Latin America might want to start with connection.
• 17:39
  Norway might want to start with results.
• 17:41
  mean, or policing might start here or there, but these are the eight and what about empathy?
• 17:46
  Doesn't that build trust?
• 17:47
  Yes, it does.
• 17:47
  That comes under compassion.
• 17:48
  I mean, you can see where these things would fit, but if we never get to talk again and you're like, I can't afford an assessment and I don't know what I should do right now,
• 17:59
  then I would start with the top, which is clarity.
• 18:02
  It doesn't mean it's more.
• 18:03
  If you can't gut check, think, oh, where should I start?
• 18:06
  Which you might be just like, oh, it's competency for us.
• 18:08
  I need to start there.
• 18:09
  Fine.
• 18:10
  Start on your gut check there.
• 18:12
  But if you don't know where to start, start with clarity.
• 18:14
  Why?
• 18:14
  Why?
• 18:15
  Because clarity is the one you can have the fastest results in the least time and it can start to change everything.
• 18:24
  So if you get really clear about expectations on your team, all of sudden consistency goes up.
• 18:30
  If you get really clear about your values,
• 18:33
  actionable values.
• 18:33
  I'm talking about MRA values, memorable, repeatable, and actionable.
• 18:37
  If you get really clear about MRA values, all of a sudden your character on your team goes up.
• 18:44
  If you get really clear about the vision, and when I say vision, I mean when I can see next.
• 18:49
  It can be just a one month vision, but it's got to be something I can see.
• 18:52
  can't be some ambiguous big long thing.
• 18:55
  It's something I can see next.
• 18:57
  Then commitment, that commitment pillar gets stronger.
• 19:00
  So if you don't know where to start, I would start with that one.
• 19:02
  And then of course, in the book, there are nine tools that can solve for very specific issues like, know, one we might want to talk about is expectations.
• 19:11
  It's one of the biggest frustrations that we Yeah.
• 19:15
  Or just plain getting clear about them.
• 19:17
  The problem is we see people so frustrated because they're unclear about expectations about what's expected of them.
• 19:24
  So they can't win, you know?
• 19:25
  anyway.
• 19:27
  That's in that in this short moment with this limited time for me to give as much as I can and nobody ever, you no one ever.
• 19:35
  There's a few things to think about.
• 19:38
  So, and all this applies to, you know, viewing my website, to ads we're putting out there, right?
• 19:47
  I mean, because you're branding yourself.
• 19:51
  So on that pillar, so without a bunch of explanation and a bunch of all the work, if you want to look at all the research and the books that are all revalidated by an outside
• 19:59
  universe, that eight pillar framework sounds like will be seized.
• 20:02
  That's revalidated by an outside university just a couple of years ago.
• 20:05
  I mean, this is that I can take those even in a simple form and say, let's take a marketing message.
• 20:10
  Okay.
• 20:11
  Let's just pretend we got a marketing message right here.
• 20:14
  Okay.
• 20:14
  One out of 10.
• 20:15
  How clear is that?
• 20:18
  it's about this.
• 20:19
  Number two.
• 20:20
  One out of 10, how much compassion does that show to the people we want to sell to?
• 20:25
  Does it show we care for them?
• 20:28
  How committed does it show we are to them?
• 20:30
  Is it on brand for our character?
• 20:31
  One out of 10.
• 20:32
  Does it show in some way that we're competent?
• 20:34
  One out of 10.
• 20:36
  By the way, a smiling audience might show competency because it's showing you're making them laugh or you're engaging.
• 20:42
  That's a competency, right?
• 20:44
  Just showing the people smiling using your product is a way of showing competency through a visual, right?
• 20:50
  consistency.
• 20:51
  Is it on brand for who we are?
• 20:52
  Is it the same color, same feel, same, same?
• 20:55
  I mean, you know, one of our things is excellence.
• 20:57
  like the publisher says, and I'm with some of the biggest publishers, you know, it's like, David, now you could sell more if you did a softcover book.
• 21:03
  Nope.
• 21:04
  That's off brand for us.
• 21:06
  Only hardcover, only color inside, ribbon in some of them.
• 21:09
  I mean, it's got to be, that's part of our brand is that you touch something from Trust Edge Leadership.
• 21:13
  It feels and looks and the paper's extra quality and it's, you all that.
• 21:17
  That's just a part of how we make decisions, right?
• 21:20
  So what is consistent, know, consistently committed, all that.
• 21:25
  You could just kind of one out of 10 it just on a gut check and you'd be close actually to kind of knowing how trusted that message is that you're putting out on your website or on
• 21:36
  your whatever.
• 21:37
  I would run it through some other things like some of the tools, like I've said already, MRA, is it really genuine?
• 21:44
  Is that values, are they memorable?
• 21:46
  Are they repeatable and are they actionable?
• 21:49
  And the problem, many people don't do the last one.
• 21:51
  They'll have a value like integrity.
• 21:52
  It's like integrity.
• 21:54
  What's that look like?
• 21:55
  Like that, you go to jail if you don't do that.
• 21:57
  What's that really look like for us?
• 21:59
  That looks like being the same on stage and off.
• 22:01
  I can see that because I was on a stage with someone everybody thought was one way.
• 22:05
  And then I was in the green room with him and he was totally different.
• 22:08
  And I thought, okay, our value is going to be, are going to, everybody has a stage 10 feet from me.
• 22:13
  Teresa has a stage when she's on the phone.
• 22:15
  20 feet from me through my window there is Dan.
• 22:18
  He's got a stage when he's in front of the certified partners.
• 22:21
  Heidi has a stage when she's writing on our behalf.
• 22:24
  It's like everybody has a stage.
• 22:26
  So what's that look like for us?
• 22:27
  It's gotta be real for us.
• 22:28
  So it's gotta be memorable, repeatable and actionable.
• 22:33
  as long as I'm in acronyms, I'll throw one more out.
• 22:36
  One more of the tools is the expectation one.
• 22:39
  And that is we see so many people frustrated about not.
• 22:45
  getting clear about expectation, having clear expectations.
• 22:48
  So here's one way a leader can think about it.
• 22:50
  And I'm really great, if I'm great at anything, it is at simplifying the complex.
• 22:54
  Like taking the research and putting it to something I can use tomorrow morning, because I was a farm kid, if you can't shovel with that shovel and clean up that deal, I'm not gonna
• 23:02
  do it.
• 23:03
  I gotta be able to use the tool.
• 23:04
  So here's a quick one.
• 23:06
  My first real job in leadership, I was a...
• 23:10
  Younger than all my staff, was on a foreign land for me.
• 23:12
  Another country was sometimes say Arkansas.
• 23:16
  just a joke because I really love the folks I met there and had the greatest board I've ever had.
• 23:20
  But, I had a lot of strikes against me that first year.
• 23:24
  I wasn't getting what I wanted from my team.
• 23:26
  Finally, I learned whose fault it was mine.
• 23:28
  And I started to get absolutely clear about expectations.
• 23:32
  And I ran through a little process.
• 23:33
  call it ODC.
• 23:35
  They're they're smart people.
• 23:37
  So if I can give a crystal clear outcome.
• 23:40
  I learned to get not so clear about the process, but really get clear about what the outcome we most hoped for would look like.
• 23:46
  Then I got clear about deadlines.
• 23:48
  I was afraid of deadlines because I thought it would make people upset or create conflict.
• 23:52
  And I learned what creates conflict is not having a minute deadline.
• 23:56
  And C was clarifying questions.
• 23:58
  Are we clear?
• 23:58
  you clear letting them spit it back to me?
• 24:01
  And it's just a simple idea.
• 24:02
  But if you just run through, did you give a crystal clear outcome?
• 24:05
  Did you give a deadline?
• 24:06
  Did you let them ask questions?
• 24:09
  Things change.
• 24:09
  It doesn't matter if you're at work or home.
• 24:11
  My daughters and I, when they were little, had a different perspective on what a clean room looks like.
• 24:16
  So I just said, okay, not going to be a domineering dad.
• 24:18
  Two things.
• 24:19
  Outcomes going to be bedspread, the top, the comforter over the pillow.
• 24:24
  I don't know what's going on underneath.
• 24:25
  Just going to be that top one.
• 24:26
  That's all you got to worry about.
• 24:27
  Number two, no clothes on the floor.
• 24:29
  Do you know what clothes are?
• 24:30
  Yeah, dad, we know what clothes are.
• 24:31
  That means I don't know what's going on in the closet.
• 24:33
  I don't know about the necklaces on the bureau, but all you got to do is those two things.
• 24:37
  That's a clean room.
• 24:38
  And your deadline is Saturday morning or before you want to play with friends Saturday morning.
• 24:42
  Hey, we want to go play with friends.
• 24:44
  Great.
• 24:44
  It's a free Saturday.
• 24:45
  No problem.
• 24:46
  Is your room clean?
• 24:49
  yeah.
• 24:49
  They go up and self-identified as a five, six, seven year old.
• 24:53
  What that looks like because it was clear enough.
• 24:55
  So once I got clear, they could win.
• 24:58
  Right.
• 24:58
  Yeah.
• 24:59
  That's the same with some of these ideas.
• 25:02
  are simple.
• 25:03
  telling you, some of the biggest companies in the world, that's one of the things they love the most is like, you finally made it simple so we could use it.
• 25:09
  No, I love it.
• 25:10
  I love it.
• 25:11
  And, you know, I just, you know, realized the other day my son came home for spring break from college and, you know, hey, Beau, before you leave, before you do this, before you do
• 25:21
  this, make sure you clean that, make sure you do that.
• 25:23
  And, you know, his intentions were there, but he'd forget.
• 25:27
  And, you know, my message to him and really to all my boys, that's the oldest saying of all time is do what you say.
• 25:35
  Right?
• 25:35
  Do what you say you're going to do.
• 25:37
  I mean, that sends so much.
• 25:40
  And, you know, we have to model that as leaders, as parents.
• 25:43
  and I'd say, so promise less.
• 25:47
  If that means you need to promise less, but you've got to do what you say.
• 25:51
  And I think that applies to every walk of life.
• 25:54
  Well, you know, my weight loss story way back about when I first met you 2011, I think it was when I lost the 52 pounds in five months.
• 26:01
  And one of things I did was say, I would give this big sum of money to everybody on the team.
• 26:07
  was like at the time, really a lot to me.
• 26:11
  was 2,500 person, whatever.
• 26:12
  And I said, if I'm not at my high school weight by May 1st, I'll give you this money.
• 26:16
  And I, what I knew about that is if I make a commitment out loud for me, it's really big deal.
• 26:22
  Some people I've learned it's not a big deal.
• 26:24
  Yeah.
• 26:24
  For me, I knew I would figure out a way if I made a big commitment.
• 26:27
  And I knew the biggest problem would be I would lose trust in myself.
• 26:30
  This is the problem with people is they make commitments and they don't keep them.
• 26:33
  They lose trust in them.
• 26:36
  That's where I was going.
• 26:37
  We lie to ourselves.
• 26:38
  Because if I say I'm going to get up tomorrow morning at 6 a.m.
• 26:41
  and work out, eight out of ten times I don't because, I didn't sleep well, but the game kept me up, then I'm conditioning myself not to believe what I say.
• 26:53
  And what happens is you poison your team because people start to believe that everybody that that do that believe no one else keeps their commitments either.
• 27:03
  So it's not and they believe people are like that.
• 27:05
  And that's that's a big problem, of course.
• 27:07
  So
• 27:09
  Listen, besides get the book, which you absolutely have to do, we're talking to David Horsogger, author of Trust Matters, More Than Ever.
• 27:22
  It had 40 tools.
• 27:24
  What's the tagline?
• 27:26
  Tools 40 proven tools to lead better growth faster and build trust now.
• 27:30
  And they're really tool-driven.
• 27:33
  mean, people talk about tools and they might share a quote from Lincoln.
• 27:36
  It's not like that.
• 27:37
  It's like, here's the six questions for this.
• 27:40
  I can give you a few more if it's interesting, quickly, relevancy questions.
• 27:46
  You got to answer the relevancy questions, which is if you talk to your team or you're talking to your kids, they want to know what makes it relevant.
• 27:53
  So what you're asking every time you have to answer this in their heads.
• 27:56
  So what this means to you is anytime I pivot, anytime I change direction, anytime I roll something out with a team, anytime I'm speaking, say, so what this means to you is so I
• 28:07
  guess gave you the case for trust.
• 28:08
  So what this means to you in customer services, you'll have less complaints, more engagement.
• 28:13
  So what financial planners with the top financial teams in the world last week, 1,100 of them in Wharton.
• 28:19
  So what this means to you is you want to get people to give you their money as a financial planner.
• 28:24
  You will not do it without trust.
• 28:26
  what this means to you is police officers, if you don't build trust, it's going to escalate.
• 28:30
  So what this means to you is you've got to make it relevant to them.
• 28:33
  You're pivoting your company, you're changing the way you're doing customer service.
• 28:36
  So what this means to us is we're going to take the budget.
• 28:39
  We're going to move it from here to here.
• 28:40
  So what this means to us is you can let that priority go.
• 28:43
  I was wrong about that one.
• 28:44
  We're moving away from it and we're moving to this right now.
• 28:47
  So what this means, you got to answer that.
• 28:49
  You got to answer that.
• 28:50
  That's the relevancy question.
• 28:51
  What this means to you now.
• 28:54
  man, I've got so many I'm passionate about, here's another one for your group that I think would really...
• 28:59
  Here's a good one that people will think.
• 29:01
  Customers I rate, we dropped the ball, whatever, or we didn't drop, know, it doesn't matter.
• 29:08
  How do you build trust in that service recovery besides giving it away?
• 29:15
  Man, you're gonna think I only have acronyms as the 40 things here, but it's not true.
• 29:21
  It's a lot of other questions.
• 29:22
  But the thing we talk about when we teach right away so people can run through it in their head in conflict or in those times of tension, we want, first of all, we want our people
• 29:33
  to remember it.
• 29:34
  So this one happens to me, one more acronym, but it's very quick.
• 29:38
  They can run through it in their head.
• 29:40
  And it is in times of conflict or frustration.
• 29:43
  We wanna go with pause, P-A-W-S.
• 29:45
  We sometimes say pause, not clause.
• 29:47
  So pause, what's your posture?
• 29:49
  And we teach a posture, start with this posture.
• 29:51
  changes your tone, your feel and open posture.
• 29:53
  looks like this.
• 29:54
  You've taught this stuff too.
• 29:56
  But the A is active listening.
• 29:58
  What does that look like?
• 29:59
  And then I teach, what does that look like?
• 30:01
  Active listening looks like this.
• 30:02
  In the US, it's looking someone in the eye.
• 30:06
  In Middle East, it might be not looking in the eye, but it's showing in that context.
• 30:11
  What's active listening look like?
• 30:12
  Here's some questions to answer.
• 30:14
  So this is on page 89, 88, 89 and 90.
• 30:19
  We give the W in PAUSE stands for words, use the right words.
• 30:23
  You've taught these yourself, but it is like not using, it's using I language, not you, you, you.
• 30:29
  It's so what I'm hearing is I give some examples here.
• 30:32
  It's thank you for sharing.
• 30:33
  Is there anything else?
• 30:34
  Or I think our perspectives might be different.
• 30:36
  What we seem to agree on is this or.
• 30:39
  help me understand your point of view on this.
• 30:41
  Like I want to give some people some way words, phrases.
• 30:44
  They can have something that fits them that locks in every time.
• 30:47
  So that let's say you're at the hair salon or you at the restaurant and you're the server and they are irate.
• 30:54
  I want to have a go-to set posture that I've practiced.
• 30:58
  Remember pre-decided is much easier to do just like pre-decided character.
• 31:03
  If I pre-decide my values, I do it before I get into that situation.
• 31:07
  That's the same for service folks.
• 31:09
  Predecide how you are gonna respond, practice how you're gonna respond when there's that irate person at the salon or at the restaurant or wherever it is.
• 31:19
  It's gonna happen.
• 31:20
  We're dealing with people, right?
• 31:21
  So, okay, this is gonna be my posture.
• 31:23
  This is authentic to me.
• 31:24
  This is gonna be my way of active listening.
• 31:28
  I'm gonna try to practice this first.
• 31:30
  And these are gonna be, this is the first set of the words I'm gonna use.
• 31:33
  This is natural to me.
• 31:34
  And take one of these sets that I've given you or you've taught.
• 31:38
  And then the S is solution centered.
• 31:41
  If you, a few ways to really keep them focused on the solution, not the problem.
• 31:49
  So, I mean, you know what this would be like, but it's kind of like, so would, if we did this, would that solve it for you and make you the happiest customer ever?
• 31:58
  know we blew it here, blah, blah, blah, but would this solve it?
• 32:01
  Actually, no, that wouldn't solve it.
• 32:03
  This would, great.
• 32:04
  That's even easier for me.
• 32:05
  You it's like, you find out what solved it for them.
• 32:08
  Right?
• 32:08
  And if you can, and you know, and I know at the end of the day, there's some people that don't want a solution.
• 32:14
  They just want an argument and you got to deal with that.
• 32:17
  I'm gonna ask you a prior, an oversimplified question.
• 32:23
  What do you think is the one thing, mistake or thing we're not intentionally doing as human beings to demonstrate to the other person, employee, client, spouse, neighbor,
• 32:41
  whoever it is, that we should be intentionally doing that I am trustworthy?
• 32:47
  Is there one thing I know that's a hard, simplified?
• 32:50
  Very.
• 32:51
  I'll tell you what comes to mind right now and I can give you, it's the pillars, it's all the specific things, but I'll tell you something because our government's dealing with it
• 32:59
  right now and our world is dealing with it.
• 33:01
  And I, it is really hard to trust the arrogant.
• 33:08
  It doesn't matter what side you're on.
• 33:10
  There's a saying in the Bible, multiple times it says, God opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble.
• 33:18
  Yeah, that's right.
• 33:21
  I see all the time people that are proud are opposed in some way.
• 33:26
  People that have no willingness to have and I can tell you personally, I've been this way.
• 33:30
  I've been proud of my kids like, no, but I'm right on this.
• 33:32
  You guys need to just do it.
• 33:34
  I'm telling you, I get opposed by the whole four of them.
• 33:37
  What's my wife?
• 33:39
  When I'm, you know, if I'm proud about it, if I'm humble about it and think, you know, there might be a different way.
• 33:45
  I remember when I did that wrong to I, you know, it's like
• 33:49
  It's just, I'm telling you in its nature even that the proud are opposed.
• 33:55
  Just think of every movie, every movie, the villain has some pride and the humble, great, kind, humble, you know, you know, so that just goes in my head.
• 34:07
  That's free of charge.
• 34:08
  Good.
• 34:09
  Good, good.
• 34:10
  All right, we are talking to David Horseauger, author of Trust Matters More Than Ever.
• 34:17
  David is the CEO of TrustEdge Leadership Institute, author of four bestselling books.
• 34:26
  You can find more about David, we have it in the show notes, but at davidhorseauger.com or the trustmattersbook.com.
• 34:39
  We'll have all his links.
• 34:41
  David, I appreciate it.
• 34:43
  I learned so much from you.
• 34:44
  You pumped me up.
• 34:46
  I also love following you on social media with how important your family is to you.
• 34:51
  And I think that demonstrates trust consciously or subconsciously when you see how important someone's family is to them.
• 35:00
  So really thank you for the time and what you're
• 35:03
  Thank you.
• 35:04
  Appreciate the friendship too.
• 35:06
  All right, Revolutionaries, we'll be right back after this.