Transcript

Naked · Why We Do What We Do

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You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome to Why we Do
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what we do. I am your clothing optional host Abraham and I'm your never
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nude host Shane. Where a psychology podcast. We like to talk about all
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the things that people do and why they do them. And we take this
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a sort of very science e behavioral angle to understanding what people do rather than
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doing what I think is a sort of the pop psychology armchair angle. I
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mean maybe we do that a little bit. We have to speculate on things,
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we have our moments. Yeah, but the idea here is to really
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unpack this with a skeptical eye, with a scientific lens, with a behavioral
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framework, you know, adjective now and whatever. Put them all in there.
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And that's the thing that we enjoy doing. And if you're joining us
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for the first time, thank you for being here. Welcome, Happy to
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have you. You can support us if you like what you hear today,
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liking and subscribing, leaving a raining and review, joining us on Patreon,
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picking up some merch or you can go completely naked and just shave wwd wwd
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into your back hair and that would be a thing that you could do.
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Yeah, and I'll talk more about the ways you can support us at the
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end of today's discussion. I'm excited to get into our topic and I don't
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know if I've really given it away too much. But before I do this,
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I'd like to acknowledge that this episode is coming out on July twenty sixth,
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and there are some specific dates about which we like to acknowledge because it
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is July twenty sixth. Yes, today is all or Nothing day, you
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know, because we hate nuance here. That's right, there's no in between.
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It is that is all you get anyway. It is also at an
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Uncle day, or maybe it should be aunt or Uncle day. To fit
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in with all or nothing. Yeah, I mean that's Aunt or Uncle Day.
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I'm a proud uncle. I like being an uncle. It is one
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voice day, only one voice day, no more, no less. To
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fit in with all or Nothing day. This has to do with reading the
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Universal Peace Covenant, the ideas that everyone reads at exactly six pm Universal time,
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which I think is supposed to be Grinnage meantime. And this Universal Peace
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Covenant is a five hundred and seventy seven word pledge to bring everyone together into
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peaceful coexistence. So that's supposed to be the idea. I don't know how
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many people celebrate that sounds nice, yeah, but you could be one of
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those. So it's really like a celebration of peace type thing. I support
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that. Yeah, And importantly it is also coffee Milkshake Day, which you
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know, a few things in life are just so wonderful that sounds really tasty.
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Yeah. No, no, they've ever had a coffee milkjake. I
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think I have, but I definitely did another one. Yeah, well today
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maybe we'll get one. It's also moth Week indeed, the nocturnal butterflies.
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Yeah, goth butterflies. All right, So we are actually not a podcast
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that just breaks down holidays. That's just something we do for fun at the
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beginning of this to let you be better in touch with the things are going
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on in the world around you, because you know, sometimes we go off
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the rails on some very weird sort of sidebar topics that no people have ever
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heard of, and don't again after we've talked about this. But yes,
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before we get into our topic, I have one more piece of housekeeping,
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which is that the podcast awards are out. They're out in the world.
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You can nominate us you can vote for us. These are the People Choice
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Awards. They're open until July thirty first, so you're almost out of time.
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So go to Podcast Awards dot com. You can click to nominate and
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to vote. So go there and vote for us. I think we've been
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nominated for it by I'll go double check and make sure. Either way,
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you go there and check it out. If you'd see our name, then
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vote for us, and if you don't, then nominate us. In that
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way, we'll be on the list and we'll see what happens. Yeah,
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we'd like to be an award winning podcast. Yeah, the only awards we've
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won are the awards we've given ourselves. Yes, which you know, I
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guess is fine. Yes, it works. Although you know, we've had
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support and help from various organizations such as the Disseminating Behavior Analysis Special Interest Group,
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which of course were eternally grateful to their help. Anyway, Yes,
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that is a thing that's happened. Let's get into our topic today, shall
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we, Yes, we shall. All right, Well, let's start with
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a little background, So a bit of a story here. We're going to
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talk about someone just for a moment. She's not the star of the podcast,
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but she's going to help introduce it. Her name is Carolyn Hawkins.
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She's a perfectly normal person whose life was suddenly shifted in a totally new direction.
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Not bizarre out of you know, not that crazy or anything. But
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just if you saw her on the street, you'd be like, that looks
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like a person who's doing normal things. And then her life all of a
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sudden took a very different direction when her husband asked her to accompany him to
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Cypress Cove, which was a newest resort in central Florida. Ah. Yes,
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it's only an hour away from where I live, just down the road
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from Shane. Yeah. Now initially reluctant, he was finally able to convince
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her to go, although she resolutely insisted that she would not be taking off
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her clothes, and indeed she stuck to her rules, so she was fully
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clothed. Carolyn for a while. The whole time, and once in the
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midst of the community, she was surprised by many things. For one,
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everyone was kind, friendly, warm, welcoming, and not at all pushy
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about the fact that she had chosen the war clothes. And for another,
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the people she met provided, apparently to her a convincing argument fur their way
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of life, and finally that she kind of just stopped noticing the nudity that
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was around her or thinking of it as being in any way out of the
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ordinary. It started to just feel like, this is just people here,
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and there was really nothing else to comment on in that way. Yeah,
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So, despite her original reservations, she started to see the appeal, and
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by the end of that trip, she and her husband were registered members.
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She loved it so much that she started working there. Eventually, she and
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her husband moved there, and she even became the public relations coordinator for the
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American Association of Nude Recreation or a n R, which sounds really fun to
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work, like, be like, hey, they were naking people here,
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come hang out the an R. This American Association of Nude Recreation website amazingly
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helpful. One of the key resources for what I was able to find an
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information for this here. I found, you know, plenty of sources,
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but they just very very helpful place. Go check out their website. Now,
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apparently this kind of story is actually not terribly unusual for those who have
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found their way to what you might call a naturist way or to a naturist
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community. Or a nudist community or something. Many of the people who have
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joined these naturists or naturalist clubs, when they started, they were completely opposed
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to the idea of nudism. They're like, under no circumstances would I ever
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do anything even remotely like that. But nevertheless they find themselves completely ameshed in
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this sort of nude culture. Yeah, and there's some discussion to be had
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about the role of clothing and fashion in our psychology and how that impacts our
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behavior and our psyche, as well as lewdness or even being offended, but
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we are mostly going to leave that for another day. I think there's a
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lot there's a lot to discuss around puritan values in the United States and why
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we think nudity is a bad thing. Like, there's a lot, there's
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a lot there. There's no way we're gonna be able to tackle it here,
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right, Yeah, We've got enough to talk about just the history of
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nudism, and so we'll review that history as well as some of the behavioral
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and psychological implications of being unclothed for extended durations, possibly out most of the
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time. And Yeah, so we wanted to dig into why do people why
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are there people who find this nudest way of life so appealing. What's going
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on with these nudest colonies? Are these just big sex clubs and that sort
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of thing, And we'll talk about what's going on with these and sort of
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where it came from. This is one of those episodes that lends itself well
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to history, I think. Yeah, And so let's go ahead and start
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there. To anyone that's listening, they should come as no surprise that humans
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have not been wearing clothes throughout the entirety of human history. For as long
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as we could document, we know that people didn't wear clothes. So ancient
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Egyptian pharaoh akan Aton or Aton something like that. Acan Aton from thirteen eighty
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five to thirty fifty three bc BC purportedly started social nudism, and as we
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discussed in our Spartan episode, the Greeks were frequently in new lots of naked
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people throughout history. Yeah. Absolutely, And we're obviously born naked, and
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we do lots of things naked, and we usually bathe naked, and so
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like. If there's one thing that is true of all humans, it is
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that at some point in our lives we are completely naked unless you're Tobias Funk
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and unless you're Tobias fume k all right now, the Olympics even were held
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entirely in the nude, and athleticism was commonly in naked activity, particularly in
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Greece when this was going on. And it does make sense if you think
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about what clothing options were kind of available at the time that athletic events were
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going on. Casual daily clothes were barely tailored, right, They were often
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very warm, They were often very restrictive, so like swimming and exercising and
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warm weather in general just didn't really work right clothes right. Also, they
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were probably a fire hazard because they were often made of like dried plants or
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things like that, and so you're going to be if you're trying to keep
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warm and you're wearing one of these things, you might go too near a
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fire. Then you would have to throw your clothing away, which took who
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knows how long to make. So you know, there was just a lot
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of activities that people did that clothing was not very useful for, and so
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they only needed clothing for certain activities. Right. Bathhouses or bathing areas where
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people would gather to bathe together in the nude and even toilets where public places,
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so you found these kind of like these large congregations of people doing things
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that naked people do. They didn't have doors or walls, so they were
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kind of these communal areas where people were just kind of hanging out thinking,
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and people would sit next to one another and talk while they did their business.
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It was not something that was kind of taboo or it was kind of
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like a standard practice in the communities. Yeah, basically bathroom stalls without the
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stall part. Yeah, it was like a bench with a bunch of holes
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that you would sit on and then people would just talk to each other about
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the news while they did the thing. In the late sixteen hundreds, although
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most of the world was mostly bathing nude, some bathing costumes were developed for
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women and later men who would visit these bathhouses. Is sort of a precursor
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of things like it's like swim outfits and that sort of thing, sure,
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which is really interesting and the history of swimsuits is probably a whole other episode
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We've got to do. Yeah. Now, as the world became more global,
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nudity was increasingly scarce until the Renaissance, during which the human body regained
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acceptance and was accepted in art and in public, and even Christian leaders accepted
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to some degree the logic that if God created humans in its likeness and we
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aren't born with clothes, that the likeness must be naked and must be good.
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I love kind of the ebb and flow of Christian leadership and all that
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stuff. I think that's a fascinating thing. What they find morally a barant
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versus what's fine? You know, yeah, for a little bit. You
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know, people who like the Bible thought naked was good. Yeah, I
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mean that was the zeitgeist. Now the ultra conservative Puritans, a liberty hating
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people who worshiped shame and misery so thoroughly that they wouldn't even Bathe instead considered
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changing their undergarments periodically while hidden behind blankets or hidden behind or under blankets for
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modesty as good hygiene. And so what I'm saying here is that there are
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this group of people who were so opposed to nudity that they wouldn't clean themselves
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more than like a few times a year at most, and that they were
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like, all you have to do is change your clothes, specifically you're undergarments
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and make sure nobody sees you while you do that. And the Puritans really
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wanted to use government to control everything that everyone did, and so that's why
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they moved to the Americas to do just that. As they were like,
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we're going to impose our moral hang ups on everybody else, and we're just
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going to make that be part of the government here. And now they all
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wear red hats. In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, well regarded public figures
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such as Benjamin Franklin and Henry David Throw thought nudity was very healthy. I
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just I love the idea of ben Franklin, just thinking like nudity is like
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the bee's knees, you know, he's out there flying a kite with a
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key strong to it, just like in the nude and just like kind of
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like this is great, this is like that's like this thing. Yeah.
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Throw regularly took nude walks, including to town, and Franklin would take air
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baths, during which you would open all the windows and sit and naked in
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them to receive the full effect of the air. President John Quincy Adams regularly
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bathed in the Potomac, so everybody was naked, ye, And they signed
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this big document that made our America the way it is today. That's right
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now. The practical reality of life for settlers who were building homestead on lands
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that had been illegally, forcefully or sneakily appropriated from indigenous people by the US
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government meant that families were sharing bathrooms and water for bathing. So if you
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were out moving out into the west and away from the cities, it was
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really common for these families to have basically one large metal tub. They typically
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bring it into the kitchen where they could easily boil water or heat water,
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and then the heated water was added to the tubs that each member could then
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take a bath, and rapid succession they could get in and have warm water
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and they take their bath. So nakedness of one's own family was just a
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simple reality, and it was very normal because that was just the way things
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happened. You people had to bathe and it was relatively difficult to do so,
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and so they would all sort of be around and see each other naked.
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And so also, again, clothes made at the time, clothes made
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for water really didn't exist, so swimming and bathing had to be nude.
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Right now, nakedness was much less acceptable during the Victorian era, where showing
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any amount of legs skin was shamefully immodest. And however, the idea that
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elites were so over the top prudish that they covered their legs the legs of
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their furniture to avoid arousal, as a myth, and that can be traced
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back to the humorous musings of British naval officer Captain Frederick Marriott. Yea,
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all right, we do have more history for you, but maybe peel off
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a layer while you listen to some ads and they'll be right back. Yeah,
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take your shirt off, it's probably chafing you. All right, we're
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back. You are as, however, clothed, as you have chosen to
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be at the moment. And we're getting into the eighteen nineties and the cities
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around the world, particularly in the United States, we're starting to grow to
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very large sizes, and often sanitary practices coupled with undeveloped engineering practices meant that
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where people were gathered and living in large groups, diseases were just absolutely thriving,
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right, And so the stuffy contemporary clothing, poor working conditions, and
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lack of regulations and policies for water cleanliness led people to the idea that getting
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back to nature, into fresh air and sunlight was very healthy, and that
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just in their clothing was part of that. Like getting back in the nature
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meant that you weren't taking your clothing with you. You were like leaving everything
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behind, your possessions, your clothes, your whatever. And so basically they
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had these sort of toxic health swamps that were cities because of poor engineering and
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poor regulation, and they move out away from the cities to areas that had
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not been so polluted by human activity, and they're like, well, this
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nature stuff seems to do wonders for our health, and so you leave all
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that stuff behind and clothing our underneath. Yeah. Now, groups of people
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who abstained from alcoholism and sex, who strictly vegetarian which was mostly synonymous with
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vegan back then, and practice natural medicine, felt that nakedness was an important
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ingredient in self help and healing. That's so different than today, right,
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So, after more than a thousand years of not having the Olympics, the
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Olympics were revived in eighteen ninety six with the attention of exactly replicating the ancient
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Greek practice, which was men only, clothing optional, mostly discarded, and
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your Asian countries began to take this more relaxed view of nudity again although the
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US. The United States did not art, and even literature that depicted nudity
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or sex were considered so obscene that owning or creating it could result in being
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jailed. Ah America. Anthony Comstock, a self hating prudish man, felt
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this mission in life was to police morality. He would love has today,
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that would be like his jam Like he would for sure be like the president
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of Has, but like make sure there's like a foreign policy in there too,
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like yeah. Now. Comstock appointed himself the leader of the New York
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Society of the Suppression of Vice exactly and saw anything on the spectrum of sex
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as evil. He had an early pioneer of birth control and planned parent and
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founder, Margaret Sanger, thrown in jail for distributing pamphlets about obtaining birth control
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because they were lewd and lascivious. He successfully petitioned Congress to pass a law
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to prevent the distribution of lewd material through the mail, which came to be
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called the Comstock Act. This guy sounds like he would be so fun at
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parties. Yeah, he also sounds like one of those like horribly repressed people
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or maybe like had always been turned down for anything remotely related to like relationships.
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Oh yeah, he liked the original in cell right. Yeah, yeah,
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I think he Maybe he was. Meanwhile, in nineteen oh three,
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what could be considered the world's first modern nudist club, Freelicked Park, which
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was translates a free light park. The founder, Henrik Pudour, championed the
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idea of a naked lifestyle and several books that helped to act people to his
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club, and so this grew into the free body movement that reflected the earlier
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ideas of health, vegetarianism, and nudism, very similar to those other ideas
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that we're talking about before right now. In nineteen twenty nine, we saw
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the first organized newdist activity in America. Kurt Barthel was a German American who
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got a group of people together and rented a remote, undeveloped land outside of
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New York City over Labor Day weekend. There the group enjoyed a clothes free
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weekend of outdoor activities such as hiking and swimming, and it was not a
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sex thing, just to be clear about that it was just being outside naked
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and is basically an air bath. It was Ben Franklin's air bath. Yeah,
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very much so. And that was a very important piece of this is
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that this was really not about a sex thing. And we'll talk a little
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bit about the intersectionality that happens there later, but first, like we're just
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unpacking the history of these nudist organizations. Yes, so that was nineteen twenty
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nine. Two years later, Barthel's official naked club, the American League for
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Physical Culture, had a permanent location called sky Farm outside of New York City.
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Over two hundred people signed up for this the moment that it formed,
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and so the police are like, we're going to raid this. You know,
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anything successful that it is outside of the norm, We're going to tear
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it down. So the police rated it. I love the idea of the
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police rating it in terms of like the logistics, because the path downs would
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have had been so easy, so they could walk in and be like,
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nope, no weapons. Yeah, pretty much. However, the following trial
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solved a major victory for the club is the judge ruled in their favor.
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He cited the fact that they had gone out of their way to ensure their
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own privacy, and they were not in other people's space, and that they
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were, they weren't doing anything loot. Again, it was not about sex.
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It was just about being together with a group of like minded people.
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One of the things that they happened to be like minded about was being newt
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right. And the trial sort of garnered a lot of attention. The fact
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that it was successful also had a lot of people interested, and so this
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resulted in many more members signing up for the club and the attempt to suppress
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nudism actually gave it a tremendous boost, and not for the last time.
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We will find out as we're getting through history. But yeah, these these
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sort of ultra prudish, these people who are going out of their way to
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not do this in my space, I'm going to police them anyway. And
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the decision to do that resulted in a lot more people joining that club.
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So there're being a lot more people doing that. So the sort of backfired
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in a very lovely way. I think it's an important precedent for something like
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this right where and this is I think this will happen time and time again
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where somebody who tends to have a maybe a really conservative leaning, like more
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puritan leaning, I should say, not even conservative, but like a really
19:37
puritan leaning. It will go after something and then a judge will rule on
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it. That will set a precedent for like more people kind of finding favor
19:45
in that or getting permission to do something that is actually not loot and not
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a problem. But actually now there's legal precedent to say this is okay.
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Right. Yeah, And they weren't doing as we said, They weren't doing
19:56
anything. They just decided to do normal activities minus clothes. Yeah, they
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were probably playing like chess and just eating food and telling stories. It was
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probably great. That was actually definitely think that happened. It sounds like it
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was probably a lot of fun. So now American Baptist minister Isisley Boone.
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Oh Boone's that name is familiar? Why is that name familiar? Oh?
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That's in Salem's Lot, the Lore of Salem's Lot, the evil preacher that
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like has ruined the town in one of the short stories. His last name
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is Boone. That's what I was like, there's any he was a preacher,
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okay, Eisley Boone decided his calling was to rule the nudist movement in
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the US, and he sees control from Barthel. Boone made the nudest Agenda
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his fight. He spent decades setting up and pushing for legality of nudist clubs
20:41
around the country. He ran the clubs with strict guidelines that tightly controlled who
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could join, who could run them, and how people were to behave while
20:48
there. And similar to many of the preceding clubs, Boone required members at
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many clubs to practice nudity at all times, practiced abstinence that's an important thing,
20:56
follow a vegetarian diet, and practice regular alaesthetics. Yes, it's important
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to him that people sort of like look and present their best if they're going
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to be a part of this club. Boone also helped start a nudist magazine,
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which continued to push for acceptance and adoption of nudism, and by the
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mid nineteen thirties there were over eighty clubs around the country, mostly on the
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East Coast, which is still true today right now. In nineteen thirty six,
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New York decriminalized mail toplessness. So you know, it's been almost one
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hundred years since men could walk around without their shirts in New York City.
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Yeah, without being in violation of the law. During World War Two,
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the military distributed nudist magazines to soldiers as it could not distribute pornography. So
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this nudist magazine was selling very well, at least among the military. Obviously
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the soldiers wanted pornography, but these nudist magazines were better than nothing. What
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was kind of interesting as an outcome of this is that after the war,
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many former soldiers they decided to join these nudist clubs that were presented in these
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magazines. I think that makes sense because it's probably like, with all the
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things that you had to have seen during World War Two and now Tara was
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like, it probably makes sense to just go back and be like, there's
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peace here, right, you know, I imagine that the nudist clubs are
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incredibly peaceful. Yeah. Now, in nineteen forty one, Congress reinstated the
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Comstock Act no distribution of lewd material through the mail. That's what was going
22:14
on. But Boone took the fight to the US Supreme Court, which again
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overturned the Act in nineteen fifty eight, So another win for nudists, that's
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right. So we kind of did a skip there because that was like a
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seventeen year period going on. At the fight in the middle of that,
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in nineteen fifty two, the Supreme Court also overturned the Haze Code. And
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this was for those people who are big cinema buffs will recognize this, but
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the Haze Code entailed a strict censorship of nudity, strong language, and even
22:41
the depiction of generally quote unquote inappropriate behavior in films. So this was largely
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the precedent that later set up the MPAA, who like, when films didn't
22:52
have a rating system, they didn't have the Haze Code, there was this
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blurry space in between where film makers could make whatever they want wanted, and
23:00
then the MPa was like, under no circumstances, we hate art, we're
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going to shut that down. And then that's what's been in place ever since
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then. Yeah, and honestly that that kind of thing has happened across multiple
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mediums. If you go back and look at the history of comic books,
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it's the same thing for a very long time. That's why Superman. One
23:17
of his powers is that he can shoot tiny versions of himself out of his
23:19
eyes, I think, and he has like miniature versions of Superman that go
23:23
around and like that was a superpower he had for a minute. I mean,
23:27
it happened with was we talked about with video games obviously, it happened
23:30
eventually with TV shows like syndicated serialized TV shows as well as music has gotten
23:37
all this. So yeah, anywhere where there is art, there is someone
23:40
trying to tear it down. Turns out, Yeah, throughout history. Now,
23:42
over the following decades, nudism waxed and weigh into the US. Although
23:47
largely maintained, they maintained a steady growth, estimated to be about an eight
23:49
hundred million dollar industry by the end of the nineteen nineties. So people are
23:53
really stoked about this. It could be a moneymaker. Yeah. And then
23:57
the last thing to sort of say the history of the timeline here there.
24:00
I mean, there's sort of a last word that has continued to grow.
24:03
They're still around. There's lots and lots of people who do this, and
24:07
that's the thing we'll get into. But also I think an event that many
24:11
people will have heard of is called burning Man. This is an annual event.
24:15
This began humbly on a beach in California in nineteen eighty six and now
24:18
regularly attracts over seventy thousand people to northern Nevada's Black Rock Desert, which is
24:23
only a couple hours drive from where I'm at. A matter of fact,
24:26
most people will fly in Torino, and there's this whole burner culture that happens
24:32
because seventy thousand people is a lot a lot of people. Add burning man,
24:37
if you weren't familiar, There's a lot of things that go on.
24:40
But essentially it becomes its own little, temporary, self regulating government, and
24:44
people are allowed to practice naturism or nudism as much or as little as they
24:48
wish. You can go there and be totally clothed the whole time. You
24:51
can go there and be totally naked the whole time. Anything goes that is
24:53
not a thing that they choose to police there, which attracts a lot of
24:56
people to it. They want to have that experience sort of a thing that
25:00
has happened that is sort of nudist adjacent but is relevant. I mean,
25:06
it sounds like a fun event, but it also just sounds like there's a
25:08
lot of dusty buttholes. I take it you have not been. I have
25:15
not been. I'm being silly I hear it's a wonderful event. I just
25:18
have not ever been, and what I see does not make it appealing to
25:22
me. I have been once. I don't want to poo poo anyone's time
25:25
out there. Well, I will say, is they have this policy of
25:27
leave no trace, an insufficient amount of people actually respect that rule. I
25:33
think there is a huge amount of cleanup that ends up needing to be done,
25:37
and I think that is probably aggressively damaging too many of the ecosystems that
25:41
do exist in a place like a desert, which is not a barren wasteland
25:44
but does have a lot of life going on there. Yes, and so
25:47
I think that it is not as green as it would like to be or
25:52
has been able to be. And so that's a thing that I think it
25:56
ends up feeling really wasteful. Like there are people who will I'm given to
25:59
understand. I haven't looked into this myself, but I've heard on other podcasts
26:03
people talking about like flying private jets until like a nearby air like airstrip that's
26:07
really close to it. Sure, So like that's pretty defeating of anything that
26:11
might have something to do with being green or being natural or anything like that,
26:15
and then you have to obviously ship a just mountain of resources out there,
26:19
Like if you're trying to feed seventy thousand people for a week and like
26:22
have bathrooms for sanitation for seventy thousand people, and they're running generators and stuff
26:27
like it is it is a huge event. That being said, the art
26:32
out there amazing. I mean, you almost will not find cooler art anywhere.
26:37
People spend years putting these things together and then they'll go out in this
26:40
big, you know, sort of harrash celebration where oftentimes they'll set it on
26:42
fire toward the end. Yeah, sometimes it'll make it back, but anyway,
26:47
it's the art is incredible, the costumes are incredible, and yeah,
26:51
the experience that I had when I was out there was that the angle,
26:53
the nudest part of it, you get over really quickly, and it's not
26:57
even complete nudest, like it's only you know, a chunk of the population
27:02
that are practicing some amount of nudism, and it stops being novel really really
27:07
fast. Like it's just like, oh, well, there's more boobs,
27:12
there's more buds, there's more wieners. I think that makes sense. I
27:15
think that it's that whole thing where like art and creativity and like the general
27:19
sentiment is is really wonderful and really fun and late stage capitalism tends to ruin
27:25
it. There you go, well said, speaking of late stage capitalism,
27:30
here's an ad. We're back. We would like to talk about, I
27:40
think, understanding nudism here and why people do it. So sort of looking
27:44
at this from a behavioral lens, if you will, nudism does the opposite
27:48
of what you think it might do. I think people tend to assume that
27:52
it is a sexual thing. It creates kind of just like a bunch of
27:55
it, like a horning community, and it doesn't do that. Many people
27:56
who have joined the nudist movement have does so because of the psychological flexibility that
28:02
they experience when they relinquish their clothes in social settings. They can get some
28:04
kind of relief and some new experiences as a result of this. From a
28:07
psychological standpoint, and most people will report a great deal of fear, as
28:11
you might imagine, for the first few moments, but when they try it,
28:15
by the end of the first hour, they report that they're usually pretty
28:18
comfortable, and the extent to which they notice there's or others. Nudity rapidly
28:22
disappears and stops becoming something that is prevalent for them or even noticeable. Right.
28:27
So, ironically, wearing no clothing seems to make people less self conscious
28:33
and concerned about body image, and in part because seeing other people helps everyone
28:37
see the natural variation that can exist in everyone's bodies. People have asymmetrical features,
28:41
scars, extra weight, wrinkles, small bits, large bits, uniquely
28:45
shaped bits, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, and no two people look alike.
28:49
So the idea of quote unquote normal and an idealized body type rapidly fades
28:56
away. I mean, once you can kind of see that there is no
28:59
standard, you start kind of realizing that, Ah, now I've been comparing
29:03
myself to other people that don't have the same situations that I do, and
29:07
to people who don't represent how most people look, which is to say,
29:11
like you'll you'll go to news clubs and you'll see people who are very fit,
29:14
who are in very athletic shape, but you know they're going to have
29:17
a body that looks a particular way, and maybe it doesn't look like Chris
29:21
Evans or you know, a model or something like that they just happen to
29:23
be sort of thin and have low weight, but maybe they have weird hands,
29:27
or they've got this weird scar or this weird wrinkle, and it almost
29:30
doesn't matter, Like it doesn't matter whether or not they have flaws. The
29:33
point is basically that people you just start seeing them as people and not what
29:37
they've sort of chosen to wear. Right, And so one reason people find
29:40
comfort and nudism is it allows them to let go of all the discomfort they
29:44
have about their own body that they care around with them all day. They're
29:47
thinking, how do I look in this outfit? How do people do I
29:49
look fat? Do people see me as fat? Do they see my fat?
29:52
And if you're nude, then like yeah, they definitely, they definitely
29:56
see me, and I see them, and we all see each other.
29:59
And that actually brings a high level of comfort to people because that stuff is
30:03
just something you can't spend any time on anymore. It's just out in the
30:07
open. Absolutely. So the unspoken rule about nudism, particularly it established resorts,
30:11
clubs and beaches, is that it's a safe space. And I really
30:15
like that and not like the kind of safe space that like you hear bloomers
30:19
talking about like, oh, they're like not ironically like, it's actually like
30:23
a really comfortable safe space. People who make others uncomfortable by leering, coming
30:27
on to others, are generally being weird, are promptly asked to leave,
30:30
and so this becomes a place where sexual predation and even general attracting, This
30:36
sizing up becomes less common than a store or possibly even a church. It's
30:40
like a really comfortable place where everybody can be themselves and have to worry about
30:44
being hit on or being a target if you will. And the lack of
30:47
clothes means everyone must accept their own vulnerabilities and protect one another. And there's
30:52
a large kind of safe community around that. Yeah. Another reason that people
30:56
come to nudism is a feeling of freedom, in the sense of being natural
31:00
in nature, and many of these clubs often feature green outdoor spaces beaches,
31:03
pools, trees, hiking, and things of that nature. Being naked in
31:07
these spaces often they report feeling natural, feeling good, feeling sort of a
31:11
part of it. They report feeling better what the water touching all of their
31:15
skin, unencumbered by clothes of any sort. Let's acknowledge that people might be
31:19
thinking, well, if you're walking, if you're hiking naked, like,
31:22
your feet aren't going to get torn up. These are practical, intelligent humans.
31:26
They wear shoes when they're hiking. They're dressed practically as needed, so
31:30
like there might be circumstances they wear clothes because it's cold. They might be
31:34
circumstances where they're covering themselves up to get the sun off of their skin.
31:38
There are definitely be circumstances where they're hiking and they wear shoes to protect their
31:41
feet. So it's not that they completely issue all clothes all the time.
31:45
They are practical, normal decisions that people make. Well, right, clothes
31:48
become less of a social norm and more of like a tool. Yes,
31:52
that's exactly right, as a very good way putting it. That's the way
31:56
that I would see that, right, Like okay, Like if it's cold,
31:59
yeah I need more layers because I am a furless mammal. Yeah.
32:01
Or if I'm going to go walking on like sharp rocks or climbing that I
32:05
probably need something with traction and my bare feet don't do that just yet right
32:08
now. Another thing people love about the naturist way of life is that they
32:12
feel it creates a more equitable social hierarchy, which is to say, clothing
32:15
is often used to establish a social standing. Expensive watches, expensive clothes,
32:20
suits, tailored garments, or loose faded shirts communicate a message about someone that
32:24
establishes their relative worth or like kind of their caste or class. This is
32:29
abandoned when clothes are left in the locker, and even wealthy people enjoy this
32:32
lack of status symbolism and simply enjoy their friends. I mean, it takes
32:36
away the hierarchies that exist that kind of separate people from different classes of people
32:40
and makes it so that we're all on level playing fields exactly right. And
32:45
similarly, people who are actually more likely to size each other up sexually and
32:49
otherwise when wearing clothes. But when people are used to being naked around one
32:52
another, they tend to really look each other in the eye and listen when
32:55
the other person is talking. And again, like there's this element of when
33:00
we see each other and way like you can sort of see the outline of
33:04
someone else's body, maybe you might think for a second, you know,
33:07
you notice that some of the skin is revealing or it's not. You see
33:09
some tattoo, poking out, or you like, maybe wonder what that looks
33:13
like, or maybe you want maybe you're one of those people who just wonders
33:15
what everyone looks like when they're naked, whatever the point is, when they're
33:20
not, then you don't have that as a mystery anymore. It's not tantalizing,
33:23
it's not meant to try and invite leering and daydreaming and wondering. It's
33:29
like it's all out in the open, and so people actually stop gazing at
33:31
it, and they look each other in the face and have a conversation.
33:35
And so they they're listening when other people are talking, they're looking at each
33:38
other, they're in you know, there's there's a social bonding, and nudism
33:42
promotes the sense of social bonding where people can feel closer to one another because
33:45
the mystery and tantalizing hint of sexuality that is created by fashion is completely absent
33:51
in those conversations. And they are simply are as they are presented, nothing
33:55
more, nothing less. They're just humans. They're just humans and their human
33:59
skin and their human bodies being human beings. That's such a nice thought.
34:01
I love that right now. People all have also noted benefits of nudism and
34:07
kind of these communities, and we're going to talk about a few of these.
34:09
One of the benefits is that people talk about not having to do laundry
34:13
very often saves time, saves water. I love that. And they're also
34:15
not spending time choosing an outfit because there's no social kind of like standard for
34:21
what that is, so they don't have to worry about that nearly as much.
34:23
They're also not packing very much because they're not planning to wear clothes,
34:27
so suitcase space is left for other things, or maybe not brought at all.
34:30
They just bring a backpack with like the hygienic stuff. Sure. And
34:35
then one thing they also report is being able to get a more even tan
34:37
because you're not going to have tan lines from clothes. I love that.
34:40
I mean, tan lines are fine, so but that is nice. That's
34:44
a funny thought to be like, Yeah, I guess no tan lines,
34:46
no worried about that. If that's something you can you're concerned about. Yeah,
34:49
you sleep at a more comfortable temperature, so you don't have to like
34:52
regulate quite as much because you don't have additional layers that you weren't really prepared
34:55
for. And there's no hassle with uncomfortable clothing. And we just as I'm
35:00
saying this, I know that I personally adjust my clothing all day. Yeah,
35:04
just I think people naturally do that. You probably do too, and
35:07
I've probably now bringing this up have made you acutely aware of the clothing that
35:09
you're wearing right now in this moment, and it makes you want to adjust,
35:13
because that's what happens when we do this right. It's the don't think
35:15
of the pink elephant situation. Absolutely, that's a nice benefit to think about.
35:17
It is like there's not really a lot of adjustment that you have to
35:21
do. I was thinking as you were saying that, like, I know
35:22
that I've adjusted my clothing several times while sitting here talking, just you know,
35:28
tugging my sleeve that way, you know, just pulling it down this
35:30
way, or you know whatever, making it feel like it fits a little
35:32
more comfortably, and that that was something that you just wouldn't be doing at
35:37
all if you don't have to worry about the clothing sort of bins or bunches
35:40
or like you get itchy or something, an itch that's hard to scratch because
35:44
you can't really reach it because that's underneath so many layers or in a place
35:46
that's hard to get to, and so there is this just general level of
35:51
heightened comfort that can come with that. You know. I was just thinking
35:53
we had a missed opportunity here. We could have done this entire episode top
35:58
less, and we chose not to. That would really have been the selling
36:02
point for getting people on the Patreon where we do release videos. Yes,
36:07
yes, yes, yes we do it. You could have seen us both
36:09
outless, but we opted not to this time. So maybe next time,
36:13
maybe on the nostalgia episode five years from now, Yes, when we look
36:17
much better, give us give us five years to get really really confident it's
36:24
gonna be great. Well, they'll ripen into perfection at that point anyway.
36:30
But I think, honestly, there's there was this element of it as I
36:31
was reading what they what they were saying now on these websites and stuff,
36:35
that I feel like, I just want to really make sure I get across
36:37
in these nudist clubs, because, as I said, it's really not about
36:40
sex. There is some level of intersectionality there where there are a lot of
36:44
people who are very free and open about their sexuality. And so they'll often
36:49
also join these clubs where there's a lot of sex that does happen, and
36:52
because clothes just get in the way of that, they also tend to be
36:54
naked a lot of the time. So it's not that there's no overlap.
36:59
There are overlap, But the nudist clubs themselves are not set up generally to
37:04
be about sex, and if they are about sex, that's usually pretty explicitly
37:07
stated, right, And we'll get to some I think some other interesting features
37:10
of these that are sort of the faques the questions you probably have that I
37:15
had at least I was doing this research. But the other thing that I
37:17
think I want to communicate is just how different of an experience it is socially,
37:22
behaviorally, and psychologically when you and everyone around you are in the nude
37:28
and as we're communicating in here, there's this like status starts to go away,
37:31
body type starts to go away, bias about your own body starts to
37:37
go away. There's a certain level that people experience where it's like, because
37:40
they're all vulnerable and they're all on an even playing field, that also helps
37:45
them have conversations with each other that are sort of feel real one to one
37:49
conversations where they're listening to each other and talking to each other and like,
37:52
and they're there to like just be with one another. They're not coming at
37:55
this from this various formal perspective of like what do I do? And what
38:00
do you do? And how much do you make? And how expensive are
38:01
my clothes? And how do I look in my clothes? And all of
38:05
that. That stuff has gone and people experience having these much more real conversations
38:09
that it invites a level of kindness and openness and warmness to one another and
38:15
treating each other with respect and dignity and without judgment. It makes a lot
38:19
of sense when you think about fashion can serve a lot of practical purposes,
38:22
and in these particular spaces, what it kind of highlights is that one of
38:28
the things that fashion can also do is severely, severely disrupt our ability to
38:32
engage with one another meaningfully. It's just putting up a wall between us and
38:36
the next person that we just wear around with us, you know, sometimes
38:38
many walls and many layers and many colors, and like, you know,
38:43
I think a lot of people get a lot of joy from fashion. And
38:45
it's not to say that there is no space for fashion and clothing, but
38:47
there is I think something to be said about this, and I feel like
38:52
there's a lot to sort of unpack here in the interesting Tidbits section that I
38:55
always like to include, and we do our notes, but I feel like
38:58
in my heart I would say, like, in my heart, I'm a
39:00
nudist. Yeah, I think I'm a naturist. I definitely have way too
39:05
much fear about that to feel comfortable wanting to join. I would like to
39:08
believe that someday I would be able to do this. Yes, same,
39:12
I definitely am not there yet, but I think, you know, if
39:15
I were to just take the leap right now and say I'm gonna go to
39:16
one of these resorts and check it out, I'd probably by the end of
39:20
that visit, i'd be like, Yep, I'm a member. Now I'm
39:22
joining this thing. Sure, And it's really just about taking some action toward
39:25
it. I think for me, it's just I would need more tattoos,
39:29
Like I feel like if I had more tattoos that looked like I was wearing
39:30
clothes, I'd probably feel more comfortable. But I also have to recognize it,
39:34
like I have like a negative level of melt into my skin, and
39:37
so like, I absorb so much sunlight right, sunburned so bad. That's
39:43
a real problem for me. So like, I've got there's a lot that
39:45
I've got to kind of sort out before i end up at a as a
39:47
naturist. But yeah, I like the idea. The idea seems really wholesome
39:52
and nice. Shin gets sunburned from the ambient lights scattered from the sun in
39:57
a room where the blinds are drawn. My dude, you I have been
40:04
sunburned within fifteen minutes in Florida. It's real bad. All right, Well,
40:08
we've we've gotten a little bit off track, so we'll let the advertisers
40:13
maybe sell you some lotion or sunscreen or something, and we'll come back to
40:16
talk about the interesting tidbits available in nudism. I hope that sunscreen commercial comes
40:22
up. We're back. Let's answer some of those questions that you probably have.
40:32
Yes, was the website or the association, the American Association of Nude
40:37
Recreation. Yes, the American Association of Nude Recreation. So they were super
40:40
helpful and kind of giving you, giving us some insight on on this kind
40:45
of culture. And there are a couple of things that we want to talk
40:46
about. First, folks that are part of this kind of community prefer the
40:51
term naturist, but nudist is okay, And they tend to avoid the term
40:53
lifestyle as that's been co opted by swingers as a specific keyword for that particular
41:00
group and those proclivities. Yes, they also tend to prefer club or community
41:06
as opposed to colony. They like to say colonies are for ants, and
41:08
so that they are intet a club, where's book library for ants. There's
41:14
kind of a stigma about this being a bunch of old people sitting around,
41:17
and there is some truth to that. It's mostly people older than forty,
41:22
but it's largely because people hang ups that people have in their youth, as
41:24
well as a fear of exploitation that some have athough there's really no evidence that
41:29
this ever occurs, but there are plenty of young people who do it as
41:32
well who join these clubs, But it does tend to be people who skew
41:36
a little bit over the forty mark. There are some communities that are entirely
41:39
nude and even have nude grocery stores and other workplaces. The idea of that
41:44
is super fascinating to me. Yeah, and most nudists still have sex,
41:47
but in private, and most toilets are also still private. Yeah, most
41:52
nudists, if they are like really in that community and they spend most of
41:54
their time there, they'll call people who wear clothes textiles. It's kind of
42:00
like how the Vetan community calls a lot of people to eat meat murderers.
42:02
Yeah, it's like they say, you know, say, it's a very
42:05
like funny thing to me, like, oh, a bunch of textiles.
42:07
Public nunity is illegal in most countries in the world except for Spain, Denmark,
42:10
Netherlands, France, Germany and Norway. Yea, and most nudist clubs,
42:15
you are expected to bring a personal towel around with you for sitting on
42:17
things. This is something I found a lot of thinking, like, if
42:21
you're sharing a lot of butt space with people, it's considered common courtesy to
42:25
just have a little hand towel with you. They did make the joke.
42:29
They're like, if you're leaving skid marks by simply sitting on a chair,
42:31
you are not wiping properly. But nevertheless, it's appropriate for you to be
42:35
bringing a towel around so people at least feel like they're not swapping so much
42:38
stuff in those spaces. Never thought that we would say the term sharing butt
42:43
space on the show, but here we are. We have arrived at episode
42:46
three twenty four. It took three hundred and twenty four episodes to say sharing
42:50
butt space. So thank you for that, Abraham, You've made my entire
42:54
life. You welcome. Most nudist hide the fact that they are nudists when
42:57
they are outside of their nude communities, including on social media. They tend
43:00
to not advertise that so much. The I can be really stigmatizing. Men
43:05
and women might have two different issues that people might think about, like what
43:08
if you're a nudist and you're a woman in your cycle begins or you're menstruating.
43:12
What about men who if they get an erection? So I was able
43:15
to find some information on this. Obviously, those are very private things that
43:19
most people handle covered by clothes. Menstruating women are likely to simply wear a
43:22
tampon and just keep doing the nude lick. There's a certain amount of just
43:27
what has been built into those cultures and acceptance that women's bodies do something a
43:30
little bit differently and that they have to deal with that in a particular way,
43:32
and everyone's just kind of cool with it. They're like, yeah,
43:35
well, that's the thing that happens. Men getting an erection is something most
43:37
people wouldn't think much about. It would be considered inappropriate to acknowledge or talk
43:42
about it. Again, it's not about sexually, you're not pointing out sexual
43:45
bits of things that people have going on. If they started doing something about
43:49
it, then they'd probably be asked to leave. Typically, it's just like
43:52
there's a thing that happens. Most people ignore it and just go about their
43:57
day unless the person who has the directions it's being weird and then they're pushed
44:01
out. Yeah that makes sense because again, this is not about sex and
44:05
it's not about predation. So like you got to make sure that it's a
44:07
safe space. And if I start talking about my direction in multiple places,
44:10
I mean, and arguably that's kind of a social norm anywhere, right True,
44:15
there's very few situations where talking about my direction would be like considered socially
44:17
appropriate right now. Nudist clubs often prefer couples and may not allow single people
44:22
to enter. I would imagine this is going to be me arm chairing for
44:25
a second, I would imagine because sometimes there are single folks that show up
44:30
thinking that it's like a dating club. Yeah, I think that's part of
44:32
it. I have heard that a lot of them tend to skew. If
44:37
they're going to allow single people and it's only women, they tend to go
44:39
ratio there of like more women than men, and mostly to avoid it being
44:46
I guess, creating an asymmetry where there's a different power dynamic there that could
44:51
exist, particularly sexually, and they don't want women to feel like they're sort
44:54
of being stalked, you know, like a herd of gazelle or something.
44:58
Yeah, I think it's reasonable. Yeah, to allow them sort of to
45:00
either be on equal footing with or out number has been sort of the plan.
45:02
A lot of them follow, not exclusively, but that is a place
45:07
and some of them. One thing you might also worry about is eating in
45:09
the nude, because these are clubs where people spend a lot of their time,
45:13
sometimes almost all of their time. They do eat in the nude in
45:16
public. It's actually fairly common. I actually saw some pictures of this when
45:20
I was looking around trying to find the information, and people are looking very
45:23
happy with a plate on their lap and just enjoying whatever food they're having with
45:28
no other clothes on. I love that although clothing is now allowed, sexy
45:32
clothing might not be. So no lingerie in some of these places. Yeah,
45:37
there was a time when there was no clothing allowed at all, but
45:38
they really try to make it not again have beat sort of sexually PDA.
45:44
So public displays of affection are strictly prohibited, and most are all of these
45:49
clubs. Again that's not about sex thing, and so they really don't like
45:52
people doing anything romantic out in public. Right, kids maybe welcome, depending
45:55
on laws and ordinances. So that's really dependent on states and and you know
46:00
maybe even counties and cities and stuff like that and different legal protections and whatnot.
46:05
There was a couple I read about who is basically raising their kids in
46:07
a nudist club, and that was that was actually fairly common there. There
46:10
was a lot of kids who are there yea in other countries. And again
46:14
it's they when they stopped treating our bodies if it's there's something wrong with them
46:17
and they need to be hidden and they need to be obscure, they stopped
46:20
treating them as if they're sexual objects. Then it doesn't really matter anymore,
46:23
you know, Right, the kids don't see it, it's anything weird,
46:27
and adults don't see anything weird, and it just becomes like people are just
46:30
people in their bodies, but there are circumstances under which they might try and
46:34
avoid that, and so it just depends on where you're at and what the
46:37
rules are. Right, there are over two hundred and sixty clothing optional resorts
46:42
in the US. Clothing optional is a key term you'll often here to describe
46:45
a place that encourages a nudist or naturalist way of going about the club.
46:52
But it's more than one per state, and matter of fact, that is
46:53
more than two per state. That is more than two per state, So
46:55
you go find the nearest one near you. Also too, I just did
46:59
a quick search. There are some that are LGBTQ plus friendly. So there
47:05
are some that are like ranked and described in a lot of those communities.
47:07
So like that, if that's something that you're interested in and you don't fall
47:12
on that gender binary, there are these clubs that exist for you as well.
47:16
So I was like, I was curious about that as we were kind
47:19
of going through this. Yeah, the thing is too, and I think
47:21
it's important, Like by just the very nature of being naked around other naked
47:24
people, you're going to notice each other stuff. But if you're staring,
47:27
it's inappropriate. So that's kind of a big thing. It's like you're gonna
47:30
notice it, just like you would notice somebody's shoes or clothes or whatever.
47:32
You're going to notice the types of things. But if you're staring, then
47:36
it becomes a problem. Yep. Absolutely, So that's kind of what we
47:38
have to say about nudists, naturists, those who choose to not wear clothes.
47:45
And I think just one of the big things I'd say is this is
47:46
not a place where people go to photograph one another exploit each other sexually.
47:51
It's not a bunch of horny guys or pedophiles. It's really just a mix
47:53
of people who are just being people without clothes. One of the things also
47:57
point out is sexual exploitation happens in places where people are always wearing clothes,
48:00
right, It's not like clothes wearing as any in any way helped guard against
48:05
any kind of exploitation happening. So giving basically zero rates of problematic sexual behavior
48:10
and nudist groups it's possible that part of the reason for inappropriate sexual behavior is
48:15
the modesty, the quote unquote modesty of requiring clothing all the time. Just
48:20
sort of food for thought there, And I think it's worth when we talk
48:22
about sort of clothing and fashion down the road what it creates. But like
48:25
it's possible that this creating this tantalizing sort of sex appeal of clothing that is
48:32
meant to hide an obscure and tease or whether you know whatever it's meant to
48:37
do, like just obscure in general, and create this image of what might
48:40
be underneath for those people. Maybe that's that helps foster that. But I
48:45
think just to say that, like, wearing clothes is definitely not stopping sexual
48:49
exploitation from happening. It's not stopping people from you know, behaving inappropriately sexually
48:52
toward one another out in public spaces and in these nudist clubs. That's not
48:57
happening, right, And again they do have some rules about that, but
49:00
I think that it also like it seems to naturally incentivize against that type of
49:05
behavior anyway. So just something to think about there, right, And I
49:07
think another take on point too is it's at the end of the day,
49:10
we all have naked bodies, and that's really all this is about. Is
49:14
people have naked bodies, and they want to have a comfortable space to be
49:17
able to live without clothing and to be able to not necessarily expose themselves but
49:22
just have to not worry about the things that kind of have those social norms
49:27
that are created around modesty and clothing and all that. So we all have
49:30
one just get over it. Everybody's naked, yeah, and body image and
49:34
all kinds of stuff. So right, I think that probably, I mean,
49:37
I would say, like, you know, go out and check one
49:38
of these places out if you're interested in joining. They probably don't want like
49:43
a ton of people trying to sign up for these just because I think it
49:45
creates the opportunity for people to start being weird in those spaces, and they
49:50
kind of want to probably control and filter what like who are becoming members and
49:54
why they're becoming members and that sort of thing. But generally speaking, I
49:58
think they would mostly welcome a lot of members as long as people are doing
50:00
it in earnest, like they want to be a part of that culture and
50:05
not because they're doing they're trying to be weird, and again they will kick
50:07
you out if you're being weird. So I don't think of these as places
50:10
to go be weird and objectify other people. Think this is a place to
50:14
go for yourself where you then get to enjoy the freedom that comes with a
50:17
naturist way of life. Yeah, these aren't humans views, Yes, very
50:22
much. So that's what airports are for. Yeah, or malls? All
50:27
right? Anything else you have to add in our discussion about nudism before we
50:31
transition to our next topic for the day. No, I think that covers
50:36
it perfect, all right. Well, what we like to do, and
50:38
if you've been listening to us for a while, you already know this.
50:40
But we find something during the week that we are in the preceding weeks or
50:45
months that we have enjoyed, and that we say, well, you know
50:47
what, I would like to recommend other people check this thing out too,
50:51
and just just maybe they'll find joy in it also, or maybe they'll already
50:53
found joy in and they just like to hear someone validating that experience. Either
50:57
way, we call that recommendations. And before we do that, I'd like
51:00
to tell you that if you've liked today's discussion, you'd like to support the
51:02
show, you can join us on Patreon. If you do that, then
51:06
you get a bunch of access to other things, such as behind the scenes
51:08
episodes, videos of us wearing clothes unfortunately, yeah, notes, all kinds
51:15
of stuff. You get early access to episodes, add free episodes, that
51:19
sort of thing, so you can you can join us on Patreon to get
51:21
those benefits. Trying to get a bunch of people to sign up so we
51:22
can do sort of an online hangout with y'all if we can get up to
51:27
fifteen patren supporters. In addition to that, you can leave us a rating
51:30
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51:37
We've got water bottles, coffee, mugs, sweaters, shirts, all kinds
51:42
of things patches, I think go over there, So go check out o
51:44
our merg store. And so anyway, the people who and another benefit you
51:47
get to join us on Patreon is that I'm going to shout out your name
51:51
for being awesome and the people who have already supported us. So that list
51:53
of awesome people includes Mike m Megan Leila, Mike t, Justin, Kim,
51:59
Joshua, Ad, Stephanie, Olivia and Brian. Thank you all very
52:01
much for being our Patreon people. I love y'all. You're our audience and
52:07
we love you all. In addition, I like to make sure I say
52:09
thank you to my team who helped make this happen. Writing and fact checking
52:14
from Shane Jess and myself, audio production and editing from Justin, and our
52:17
social media coordinator is Emo Wilson, who does a fantastic job. So if
52:22
you go to social media and you like to talk to us about nudism and
52:24
nude clubs and joining one and where you've been to a nude club, you
52:29
can do that over on social media, and we're on all the social media
52:31
platforms, the major ones that are not crazy. You can also email us
52:35
directly info at WWDWWD podcast dot com, and we really love hearing from people
52:39
like please reach out and talk to us about those things. But I think
52:44
that is all I have until we get to some recommendations. Yeah, I
52:46
think that sounds good. Perfect. Let's give one more swing to the advertisers
52:51
and then we'll come back with the recommendations. We're back, so one more
53:01
quick audio transition, and then we'll tell you some things that we think you
53:05
should check out recommendations. You know, everybody knows that I listened to a
53:16
ton of music. Like I mean, we both listened to a ton of
53:19
music, but I tend to recommend a lot of music on here. You
53:21
listen to more than I do. This is a fact. I listened to
53:22
so much music. And this last Friday, at the time of this recording,
53:25
this last Friday put out a bunch of like a bunch of bands put
53:29
out a bunch of really great things. As a bonus recommendation, go listen
53:31
to the new Chamber record if you like kind of like really intense tech metal
53:36
stuff. I feel like you would like that in particular knowing knowing the bands
53:39
that you've been in and stuff too. Yeah, But the one I want
53:43
to recommend is my favorite that came out of these releases, and that's a
53:45
songwriter named Ja Jail spelled j A y E j y l E. That's
53:51
his stage name he goes. His real name is Evan Patterson. He was
53:53
in Breather Resist and Young Widows and Black Cross. He was in a bunch
53:58
of these bands out of Louisville. Well, Jjail put out his first full
54:01
like not his first full length, but a full length called Don't Let Your
54:05
Love Life Get You Down. And it is incredible. The best way to
54:08
describe it is like really moody, really influenced by like goth folk if you're
54:14
familiar with like that type of sound. It's real dark, it's real brooding.
54:17
It's it sounds like it would be the soundtrack for True Detective. Okay,
54:22
fun And this album is just incredible. It's just the guitar work on
54:25
it, the musicianship on it is really really unique, really incredible, and
54:30
I've been loving it so I haven't been able to stop listening to it since
54:31
it came out. Oh, I am curious. I'm curious about this.
54:35
Yes, you see who sold it? Well, I have my moments,
54:37
I try, all right. I am recommending a TV show it is just
54:40
came out with its second season recently. This is called Is It Cake?
54:45
This is a Netflix sort of reality TV show, if you will. That
54:51
is pits a bunch of bakers against each other to design cakes that look like
54:54
everyday objects. So the first season they did like a cake that looked like
54:58
a hamburger. Or that look like a bowling pin. But it's really amazing
55:02
to see what people can do with cake decorating an art. And it's I
55:07
mean, you legitimately can hardly tell sometimes at all, often never the difference
55:12
between something that is a cake and something that is like a typewriter. Yeah,
55:16
I don't know if they did a typewriter, but they did do books
55:19
and stuff. They do an an incredible, incredible job. Someone didn't do
55:22
a printer. Actually, I know they think about it so wild. It's
55:24
wild, like you really you look at it and you're like, that's just
55:27
that's just a printer, and then they cut into it with a knife and
55:30
you're like, oh my god, it's a cake. It's really neat to
55:31
see on the show. And anyway, so season two recently came out.
55:35
It's a lot of fun. It's over on Netflix. So if you're if
55:37
you're on Netflix, go check out Is It Cake? Season two and season
55:39
one if you haven't seen it to watch them both. Yeah, it's so
55:43
fun. It's it's such a fun like and it's it doesn't require you to
55:47
like overthink it, like you just have fun with it. Yeah. Yeah,
55:52
and it's it is a competition show, So there's like they sort of
55:53
whittle down like people who get to stay and have to go out every every
55:58
episode based primarily that are not a panel of judges can tell if they're from
56:01
a pile of objects, the which one is cake? Right? Exact sort
56:06
of the thing they put them on pedestals and they have to choose. So
56:07
anyway, I think that's what we have to say about. Is it cake?
56:10
And don't let your love life get you down? And nudists? Is
56:15
there anything you like to add or anything I forgot before we say or goodbyes?
56:17
Be excellent to each other, be excellent, walk around naked in your
56:22
house or something and get used to it. Yeah, whatever you want to
56:24
do. Check out the clubs if you're interested, or don't do any of
56:27
those things. If you're not comfortable with it, do you do you?
56:29
Yeah? I just wanted to to sort of share the words as we learned
56:31
about this, but I think that's all I have. So I appreciate you
56:36
so much for listening. Thank you for recording with me today. Shane.
56:37
So this is Abraham and this is Shane. We're out see up. You've
56:43
been listening to why we do what we Do. You can learn more about
56:45
this and other episodes by going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening,
56:52
and we hope you have an awesome day.