Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Building Sustainable Rural Healthcare Workforce Solutions

Transcript

Building Sustainable Rural Healthcare Workforce Solutions · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:00
  - Hi, everyone. This is Lucas Voss with Becker's
• 0:02
  - Healthcare. Thanks so much for tuning in to
• 0:04
  - the Becker's Healthcare podcast series. It's great to
• 0:06
  - have you. I'm excited to welcome doctor Ryan
• 0:08
  - j Gates to the podcast. He's the senior
• 0:10
  - vice president, executive dean of Western Governors University,
• 0:13
  - Levitt School of Health, where he oversees the
• 0:15
  - university's nursing and health programs.
• 0:18
  - He spent more than two decades in health
• 0:20
  - care starting as a clinical pharmacist before taking
• 0:22
  - on executive leadership across health systems and managed
• 0:26
  - care organizations with a focus
• 0:28
  - on population health value based care and rural
• 0:31
  - and underserved
• 0:32
  - communities. Doctor Gates, it's so fantastic to have
• 0:35
  - you. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Lucas.
• 0:37
  - Excited to, yeah, share some time with you.
• 0:40
  - Yeah. We have lots to talk about because
• 0:42
  - especially when we're thinking about rural health care
• 0:44
  - in The United States, there's a lot of
• 0:47
  - change happening specifically this year, but also then
• 0:49
  - heading into 2027.
• 0:51
  - Most certainly, the rural health transformation program obviously
• 0:54
  - is is bringing significant funding to rural health
• 0:57
  - care, which is great.
• 0:59
  - Where can that investment
• 1:01
  - help specifically with workforce shortages,
• 1:05
  - and where does that funding alone still fall
• 1:07
  - short a little bit as of today?
• 1:10
  - Yeah, Lucas. Well, you know, with
• 1:12
  - 47%
• 1:13
  - of our rural hospitals having negative contribution
• 1:16
  - margins, the temptation,
• 1:19
  - is to use this, you know, one time
• 1:21
  - funding to to have some immediate
• 1:24
  - impact.
• 1:25
  - But the consequence of those decisions could be
• 1:28
  - that it's just a drop in the bucket
• 1:30
  - and doesn't really contribute to
• 1:33
  - the long view sustainability
• 1:34
  - of health systems. So
• 1:36
  - I think it's really important for rural health
• 1:39
  - system leaders
• 1:40
  - to avoid that temptation,
• 1:42
  - to really
• 1:44
  - pause, reflect, and
• 1:46
  - strategize
• 1:47
  - around how this... How they could use this
• 1:49
  - one time funding
• 1:51
  - to create durable
• 1:53
  - long view solutions
• 1:54
  - and... That are sustainable beyond the end of
• 1:56
  - the five year funding window.
• 1:59
  - And so when you get into what are
• 2:01
  - some of the major
• 2:03
  - threats for sustainability
• 2:05
  - of a rural hospital, rural health system,
• 2:08
  - that's where you start in terms of what
• 2:10
  - can be constructed with this one time funding
• 2:12
  - to create
• 2:14
  - durability and sustainability for health system. And and
• 2:17
  - workforce is is always very central
• 2:20
  - to that problem and that issue.
• 2:23
  - And so, using this funding to create
• 2:26
  - a sustainable
• 2:27
  - Longview workforce solutions,
• 2:31
  - versus,
• 2:32
  - you know,
• 2:33
  - incentive dollars for sign on bonuses and relocation.
• 2:36
  - And
• 2:37
  - those might bring... And, you know, temporary
• 2:40
  - staffing.
• 2:41
  - Those are, again, immediate
• 2:43
  - easy button solutions.
• 2:46
  - But after a fiscal year, it's in the
• 2:48
  - vapor, and you're back to the same crisis
• 2:51
  - that you're in. So
• 2:53
  - creating,
• 2:54
  - sustainable
• 2:56
  - workforce solutions that really the foundation, in my
• 2:58
  - opinion,
• 3:01
  - is built around the local workforce.
• 3:04
  - The health system that I came from in
• 3:06
  - California,
• 3:07
  - large health system, largest health care district in
• 3:09
  - California,
• 3:11
  - over 5,000 employees.
• 3:13
  - You know, we had four
• 3:15
  - local nursing schools,
• 3:17
  - but they were all state funded.
• 3:19
  - And these local schools were full of non
• 3:21
  - local kids because primarily,
• 3:23
  - we were a migrant farmworker community.
• 3:26
  - And our migrant farmworker kids just could not
• 3:28
  - compete with the Orange County, San Francisco, LA,
• 3:32
  - San Diego families of economic means where their
• 3:34
  - kids just applied to any school in the
• 3:36
  - state and moved to wherever they got in.
• 3:39
  - And so we had a a... While we
• 3:41
  - had very vibrant schools and we hired a
• 3:43
  - lot of their nurses,
• 3:44
  - graduates,
• 3:45
  - our nurse turnover rate in the first year
• 3:47
  - was over 30%. So one of the nurses
• 3:49
  - we hired left, to go back home.
• 3:52
  - And so we needed a a more durable
• 3:55
  - local workforce solution,
• 3:57
  - that really gave the stranded
• 3:59
  - talent within our own employee base, whether they're
• 4:03
  - in the cafeteria,
• 4:04
  - working in our rural health clinics as medical
• 4:06
  - assistants,
• 4:07
  - local people that had a dream of becoming
• 4:09
  - a nurse, that had no viable pathway,
• 4:12
  - to become one. And so we as a
• 4:14
  - health system created one.
• 4:16
  - And I tell you, the retention rate of
• 4:19
  - locally trained folks,
• 4:22
  - is nearly zero.
• 4:23
  - They're from there. Their family's from there. Their
• 4:26
  - parents are there to take care of the
• 4:27
  - kids, etcetera.
• 4:29
  - And so what what often is lacking in
• 4:31
  - particularly in rural,
• 4:33
  - health systems is a durable
• 4:36
  - local
• 4:36
  - workforce
• 4:37
  - solution
• 4:38
  - that, schools like WGU are really built to
• 4:41
  - help solve.
• 4:43
  - Especially when we're thinking about specialties, this becomes
• 4:46
  - even harder
• 4:47
  - because specialties are so much harder to recruit
• 4:50
  - for, to maintain. Again, you're you're you're a
• 4:52
  - pharmacist by by trade. It's certainly been on
• 4:55
  - the mind of a lot of folks as
• 4:56
  - well to be able to fill those roles,
• 4:58
  - especially in in rural rural health care. You
• 5:01
  - touched on those pathways that you've created to
• 5:03
  - be able to fill some of these roles,
• 5:05
  - and and you created
• 5:06
  - a specific pre pharmacy pathway with CVS Health
• 5:10
  - together.
• 5:11
  - I'm wondering if you could talk a little
• 5:12
  - bit about that. And and, again, what are
• 5:14
  - some of these elements that you would like
• 5:16
  - to see
• 5:18
  - smaller rural health systems adapt to be able
• 5:21
  - to hit some of those shortages that we've
• 5:23
  - touched on?
• 5:24
  - Yeah. So this is a great, segue. You
• 5:27
  - know, CVS Health being the largest
• 5:29
  - pharmacy provider in The United States,
• 5:32
  - All 50 states,
• 5:34
  - 60,000
• 5:35
  - pharmacy technicians employed.
• 5:38
  - And I personally have friends that I went
• 5:40
  - to pharmacy school with, I'm still good friends
• 5:42
  - with, that work for CVS.
• 5:43
  - And they're on their,
• 5:46
  - you know, their their special forces squad. It's
• 5:48
  - a fly into rural communities in the middle
• 5:52
  - of nowhere,
• 5:53
  - get a rental car, get a hotel, and
• 5:55
  - stay there, you know, seven days on, seven
• 5:57
  - days off because there simply isn't a single
• 5:59
  - pharmacist that lives in that county
• 6:01
  - to keep the pharmacy open. So CVS
• 6:04
  - had a real
• 6:06
  - workforce
• 6:07
  - issue that was actually
• 6:09
  - blooming and growing.
• 6:11
  - You know, by year 2030,
• 6:14
  - we're predicting that 17,000
• 6:16
  - pharmacists short in The United States.
• 6:18
  - And so CVS as a... As an employer
• 6:21
  - saw this dire need, particularly in their rural
• 6:23
  - communities.
• 6:24
  - And how can we... How can CVS
• 6:27
  - create a durable
• 6:29
  - workforce solution.
• 6:31
  - And the first place they looked
• 6:33
  - is the stranded talent within their own workforce.
• 6:37
  - They pulled
• 6:38
  - their 60,000
• 6:39
  - pharmacy technicians,
• 6:41
  - and 40% of them wanted to become a
• 6:43
  - pharmacist,
• 6:45
  - but had no viable pathway to do so.
• 6:47
  - They couldn't stop working. They need to provide
• 6:49
  - for their family. They live in a rural
• 6:51
  - community with no college within reasonable distance.
• 6:55
  - And so how could they,
• 6:57
  - help solve their own workforce issue within their
• 6:59
  - own talent? So they reached out to WGU
• 7:02
  - who has a 50 state presence.
• 7:04
  - And how could we partner together and create...
• 7:08
  - We actually, from scratch, created
• 7:10
  - an associate's degree pre pharmacy program,
• 7:14
  - that is online, competency based,
• 7:17
  - and exclusive to CVS employees.
• 7:20
  - And so, funded by CVS,
• 7:22
  - largely,
• 7:24
  - and, they have, you know, tuition assistance for
• 7:26
  - their,
• 7:27
  - employees who want to enroll at WGU in
• 7:30
  - this pathway. And then we have articulation agreements
• 7:32
  - with schools of pharmacy across The United States
• 7:34
  - for the CVS graduates to enter into.
• 7:37
  - So
• 7:38
  - a a brilliant,
• 7:39
  - beautiful example
• 7:41
  - of a partnership of an employer with a
• 7:43
  - very felt real workforce need
• 7:47
  - and then an an online competency based higher
• 7:50
  - education partner
• 7:52
  - to custom create
• 7:54
  - a degree program or a licensure program. And
• 7:56
  - this is... This this model is replicable
• 7:59
  - to other health systems,
• 8:01
  - that can deeply partner,
• 8:04
  - to create solutions for their workforce needs.
• 8:07
  - Really quickly as a follow-up to that too,
• 8:09
  - do you feel like there's momentum for that
• 8:11
  - model? Do you feel like more folks specifically
• 8:14
  - in academia,
• 8:15
  - but also then on the rural health care
• 8:17
  - side, are realizing that this is a model
• 8:20
  - that's viable that they should be going for?
• 8:23
  - Yes. I do I do feel and see
• 8:25
  - that momentum, and and I think you see
• 8:27
  - it as well in bits and pieces,
• 8:31
  - across The United States as we're interacting more
• 8:34
  - and more with health systems.
• 8:36
  - And it's not just about nursing.
• 8:39
  - The most frequent question I get from a
• 8:41
  - lot of health systems are... Is Allied Health.
• 8:43
  - Do you have Rad Tech
• 8:45
  - programs? Do you have Ecotech programs?
• 8:47
  - And honestly, you know, that... Those are the
• 8:49
  - entry level,
• 8:51
  - certificate programs where, you know, folks that come
• 8:54
  - from families in rural communities or lower socioeconomic
• 8:59
  - means they need to get into the workforce.
• 9:01
  - They don't have the economic mobility to spend
• 9:04
  - four to five years to go to a
• 9:05
  - brick and mortar to rack up a $152,100,000
• 9:08
  - dollars in loans to then get a job.
• 9:10
  - They need to get in the workforce, and
• 9:12
  - they need to be able to provide for
• 9:13
  - their families. And so these allied health positions,
• 9:16
  - a, meet a workforce need for the health
• 9:18
  - system.
• 9:19
  - But to create these these allied health positions,
• 9:23
  - degree programs or certificate programs that actually have
• 9:27
  - stackable
• 9:28
  - college credit, because that gets them into the
• 9:30
  - workforce in in an entry level position. But
• 9:33
  - over twenty years' time, that employee wants to
• 9:35
  - progress and grow, maybe go into management, maybe
• 9:37
  - go into become a pharmacist. And so having
• 9:40
  - even the very beginnings of their education
• 9:42
  - actually have college credit stackability
• 9:45
  - into
• 9:46
  - a a path that they can see themselves
• 9:49
  - growing and and a trajectory professionally for themselves
• 9:52
  - is what, I think we do best at
• 9:54
  - at BGU in partnership with our health systems.
• 9:57
  - So, yes, I think health systems are seeing
• 9:59
  - the need,
• 10:00
  - particularly around some of these niche positions that
• 10:02
  - are very difficult to fill and that have
• 10:05
  - maybe lower volume in terms of the number
• 10:07
  - of employees they employ. But when you're missing
• 10:09
  - an MRI tech
• 10:11
  - and you can't run your MRI or CT
• 10:14
  - scanner,
• 10:15
  - you know, the the opportunity costs
• 10:18
  - of vacancies that languish for long periods of
• 10:21
  - time
• 10:22
  - is a real cost, economic cost and a
• 10:24
  - clinical cost, patient care cost to the community.
• 10:27
  - So
• 10:28
  - when you can grow local talent that stays
• 10:30
  - and not have to recruit
• 10:33
  - and relocate and hope that this person stays
• 10:35
  - after twelve months and they get there and
• 10:37
  - it's not home and they start missing home
• 10:39
  - and they start having babies and mom's not
• 10:41
  - around to help take care of it. All
• 10:42
  - those factors
• 10:43
  - Mhmm. I think, are landing well with,
• 10:47
  - health care leaders about
• 10:49
  - creating local workforce solutions within their own system.
• 10:53
  - And it's honestly a recruitment tool. You know,
• 10:55
  - CVS It is. People wanting to become pharmacists
• 10:58
  - are... You know, even with only two months
• 11:00
  - in,
• 11:01
  - people are saying, well, get a job at
• 11:02
  - CVS
• 11:03
  - because then you can get into their exclusive
• 11:06
  - pipeline through WGU. You know, our our program,
• 11:09
  - it's... Can only be enrolled in if you
• 11:11
  - are a CVS employee.
• 11:13
  - And that was true for us, back in
• 11:15
  - my health system back in in California. If
• 11:17
  - you wanted to become a nurse, work that
• 11:18
  - out. Well, just get a job at at
• 11:20
  - CUI Health because they have their own internal,
• 11:23
  - nursing program, but it's exclusive to the two
• 11:26
  - employees.
• 11:27
  - So it's exciting opportunity. It's exciting time in
• 11:30
  - health care.
• 11:31
  - I'm so grateful to have opportunity
• 11:34
  - to bring those learnings out of health care
• 11:36
  - industry into WGU to inform the strategy and
• 11:40
  - approach
• 11:41
  - and how we can, you know, help my
• 11:43
  - colleagues out there and,
• 11:44
  - health care leadership and and institutions that are
• 11:46
  - really struggling,
• 11:48
  - to help them run alongside them in that.
• 11:49
  - So...
• 11:51
  - Is that... You you just touched on an
• 11:53
  - important part of of this too, I think,
• 11:55
  - because we know that flexibility is such an
• 11:57
  - important piece of workforce development today. A lot
• 12:00
  - more people want flexibility in their jobs. They
• 12:03
  - want flexibility wherever they're working, especially in health
• 12:06
  - care. Was that a big piece of
• 12:09
  - making this work for employees?
• 12:12
  - They saw, okay. This pathway enables me to
• 12:15
  - be able to advance in my career, but
• 12:17
  - it also offers
• 12:19
  - offers me flexibility.
• 12:21
  - What impact did you see for them and
• 12:23
  - the organization when they had that flexibility and
• 12:26
  - they were... They're okay. This is a pathway
• 12:29
  - for me. You know, Lucas,
• 12:32
  - and this is where I... I'm I'm such
• 12:34
  - a a very missional person. I grew up
• 12:37
  - in the Central Valley Of California. If you
• 12:39
  - ever saw the movie McFarland USA with Kevin
• 12:41
  - Costner,
• 12:43
  - if you haven't seen it, it's a homework
• 12:44
  - assignment. You need to watch it, but that
• 12:46
  - would Will do. Be much about it. And
• 12:48
  - so
• 12:49
  - growing up and then working in this environment
• 12:52
  - and and in my position as the chief
• 12:54
  - ambulatory officer and chief population health officer, you
• 12:57
  - know, my frontline staff in my rural health
• 12:59
  - clinics
• 13:01
  - were largely, you know, kids from my partner,
• 13:04
  - farmworker families.
• 13:05
  - Brilliant,
• 13:06
  - driven folks,
• 13:08
  - hard... The hardest working people you ever meet.
• 13:11
  - But again, we're born in the life circumstances
• 13:13
  - and families that just didn't have that economic
• 13:16
  - mobility or perspective or demand that you're gonna
• 13:18
  - go to college. You know?
• 13:20
  - And and... But they have that desire,
• 13:22
  - but they just literally had no viable path
• 13:26
  - available to them. And so when we opened
• 13:29
  - up our our nursing program in partnership with
• 13:31
  - a high... Online hired institution
• 13:34
  - and they were accepted into that program,
• 13:37
  - the tears of joy, you know, shed by
• 13:40
  - those,
• 13:41
  - frontline staff that worked in my clinics that
• 13:43
  - finally had this opportunity
• 13:45
  - to fulfill their dream of becoming a nurse.
• 13:47
  - And it was afforded to them by their
• 13:49
  - employer.
• 13:50
  - Come on. Like, the loyalty,
• 13:52
  - to the health system, the loyalties that our
• 13:55
  - community
• 13:56
  - was just a wonderful thing to see unfold,
• 13:59
  - and the equity that that brings... The economic
• 14:02
  - equity of opportunity that brings to rural
• 14:05
  - communities with stranded talent and people who wanna
• 14:08
  - progress but just don't have the means to
• 14:09
  - do so,
• 14:11
  - is what really, you know, caused me to
• 14:13
  - leave my health... My career in health care.
• 14:14
  - I wasn't looking for a job, and I
• 14:15
  - got this call last summer. And
• 14:18
  - over four months of time, fell in love
• 14:19
  - with what
• 14:21
  - what we could do at WGU on a
• 14:23
  - much larger scale.
• 14:24
  - So, yeah, it... It's very meaningful to those
• 14:26
  - employees because in our model,
• 14:28
  - you stay gainfully employed.
• 14:31
  - We don't exacerbate
• 14:32
  - a further
• 14:33
  - workforce shortage by the employer.
• 14:36
  - Your EBS worker, your cafeteria worker
• 14:40
  - who wants to become a nurse completes their
• 14:42
  - their coursework
• 14:43
  - at night and on the weekends, CWG. That's
• 14:45
  - why we're called the night owls.
• 14:47
  - Our staff... Majority of our staff are full
• 14:49
  - time.
• 14:51
  - Over half have kids,
• 14:52
  - but they have grit and they have will.
• 14:54
  - And so we give them the opportunity to
• 14:56
  - stay gainfully employed, provide for their families, complete
• 14:59
  - their didactics.
• 15:00
  - And if they're going into a licensed program
• 15:01
  - like nursing,
• 15:02
  - then the employer,
• 15:04
  - you know, bring them down to part time
• 15:06
  - or or works with their PTO time and
• 15:09
  - sponsors their clinical rotations,
• 15:11
  - and they train and fulfill
• 15:13
  - those clinical hours with with their employer.
• 15:16
  - And then they complete and they get on
• 15:18
  - the floors as a nurse
• 15:20
  - without ever leaving gainful benefit employment.
• 15:24
  - So it's a it's a win win win,
• 15:27
  - not just for the health system and the
• 15:28
  - employee,
• 15:29
  - but the local community,
• 15:31
  - the local economy.
• 15:33
  - When you're bringing in travel nurses that are
• 15:36
  - staying at Airbnbs
• 15:37
  - or... And you're you're flying in people who
• 15:40
  - are relocating and maybe they're gonna rent for
• 15:41
  - a year because they're not sure if they're
• 15:43
  - gonna stay or not,
• 15:44
  - The churn that that creates in the local
• 15:46
  - economy,
• 15:48
  - is real.
• 15:49
  - But when you
• 15:51
  - provide local people with economic mobility,
• 15:54
  - they buy another house. They go out to
• 15:56
  - dinner more often. They they they shop in
• 15:58
  - the local stores. Like,
• 16:00
  - it it it is,
• 16:02
  - a real economic
• 16:04
  - equation and,
• 16:06
  - not just for the employer and the employee,
• 16:08
  - but also the local rural community.
• 16:11
  - For your peers that are listening,
• 16:15
  - what's the one step that you would want
• 16:17
  - them to take? If they're listening and they're
• 16:19
  - saying, okay. This is viable. We need to
• 16:21
  - do that. We need to create a more
• 16:23
  - sustainable workforce.
• 16:25
  - What's the first step that you recommend them
• 16:28
  - to take?
• 16:29
  - Well,
• 16:30
  - if you are in a position and you
• 16:32
  - have the retention issues and workforce issues, I
• 16:34
  - would welcome
• 16:35
  - a call and a conversation
• 16:37
  - to help run alongside
• 16:39
  - health care leaders in that. I understand,
• 16:41
  - particularly for rural health systems,
• 16:44
  - with thin contribution margins. You're not
• 16:47
  - flush
• 16:48
  - with leadership
• 16:49
  - that are looking for things to do and
• 16:51
  - grants to write and programs to develop. And
• 16:54
  - this
• 16:56
  - rural transformation funding, however, can provide
• 16:59
  - funding for those types of positions or external
• 17:02
  - help to come in because it is a
• 17:05
  - big,
• 17:05
  - one time administrative
• 17:07
  - lift
• 17:08
  - to just develop the policies and workflows and
• 17:11
  - procedures to
• 17:12
  - create a sustainable
• 17:14
  - local workforce solution within your entity.
• 17:18
  - So know that,
• 17:20
  - you know, we are at the ready, and
• 17:21
  - and we have other folks to to bring
• 17:23
  - to bear to help, health systems work through
• 17:26
  - that
• 17:27
  - because
• 17:28
  - I know what the tyranny of the urgent
• 17:30
  - is like in health care leadership
• 17:33
  - and that don't often have the luxury of
• 17:35
  - time or resources to to pontificate
• 17:38
  - around,
• 17:39
  - a project like this.
• 17:41
  - But you have a one time five year
• 17:44
  - opportunity to to leverage
• 17:47
  - external funding to bring in, you know, to
• 17:50
  - hire or bring in external resources that are
• 17:52
  - administratively
• 17:53
  - can run alongside and design this
• 17:56
  - local workforce solution. Again, it's the long view.
• 17:58
  - It's not immediate.
• 18:00
  - You have to enroll and graduate and hire
• 18:04
  - these local workforce. You know, solutions have to
• 18:06
  - take multi years to come to fruition.
• 18:09
  - And therefore,
• 18:10
  - oftentimes, it's just passed over as an opportunity
• 18:13
  - because it's just a little too overwhelming to
• 18:15
  - even consider.
• 18:16
  - But, you know, we are... We're doing it
• 18:18
  - with health systems. We bring the playbook.
• 18:20
  - It can help expedite
• 18:22
  - that,
• 18:23
  - you know, that concept thing at least
• 18:26
  - and move the ball down the field. I
• 18:27
  - I have great compassion for my fellow rural
• 18:29
  - health care leaders out there because I know,
• 18:32
  - you know, what they're up against on the
• 18:33
  - daily
• 18:34
  - And if we can bring resources and ideas
• 18:36
  - to bear
• 18:37
  - to help them construct a viable long view
• 18:40
  - workforce solution
• 18:42
  - utilizing their local
• 18:44
  - pent up talent within their frontline workforce or
• 18:47
  - in their local communities,
• 18:48
  - that's our, I think, a shared mission.
• 18:51
  - So today,
• 18:53
  - WGU has over 20,000
• 18:55
  - enrolled students that are from rural ZIP codes.
• 18:59
  - And over the last five years, we've graduated
• 19:02
  - over 10,000
• 19:03
  - graduates
• 19:04
  - today in rural
• 19:06
  - communities. And so
• 19:08
  - this isn't, you know, a vision or a
• 19:10
  - thought in the future of what WGU may
• 19:12
  - be able to do to help rural health
• 19:15
  - care providers and hospitals.
• 19:16
  - It's something that we're doing today. We have
• 19:19
  - the
• 19:20
  - opportunity to more deeply partner with health systems
• 19:23
  - in a partnership
• 19:24
  - approach that really brings coherence to their local
• 19:27
  - workforce
• 19:28
  - solution.
• 19:30
  - Doctor Gates,
• 19:31
  - fantastic to have you. Thank you so much
• 19:32
  - for taking some time for us. Thank you,
• 19:34
  - Lucas, for having me. I really appreciate the
• 19:36
  - opportunity.
• 19:37
  - We also want to thank our podcast sponsor,
• 19:39
  - Western Governors University. You can tune in to
• 19:41
  - more podcasts from Becker's Healthcare by visiting our
• 19:43
  - podcast page at beckershospitalreview.com.