Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / When Do You Give The Kids a Smart Phone?

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When Do You Give The Kids a Smart Phone? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. A brand
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: new study has just been published in the very prestigious
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: journal Pediatrics. Last month had followed ten than twelve year
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: olds and it gives us some insight into the question
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: of the moment. Every time it's the new year, people
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: start saying how long should my kids be before they
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: get a smartphone? Well, the stats showed some alarming things.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: If your child under twelve has a smartphone, they're more
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: likely to have depression, obesity, insufficient sleep. Basically, the earlier
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: kids get smartphones, the worse the outcomes. Kids who got
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: smartphones during their twelfth year had fifty seven percent higher
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: odds of clinical level mental health problems by the age
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: of thirteen. Translation, getting your child a smartphone in early
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: adolescence is a health risk factor full stop. Today on
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: the Happy Families Podcast, we answer the question when should
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: you get you get your child a smartphone because it's
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: when everyone's thinking about it. Start of the year, Stay
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: with us answers. Next, Hello, Welcome to the Happy Family's
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: podcast where you get real parenting solutions every single day.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We Adjustin and
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Kylie calls and parents a six kids, Kylie, we've been
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: through this question. While we're going through it for the
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: sixth time with our sixth child, she's eleven turning twelve.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: It's so much pressure. It's the iPad, it's the phone,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: it's it's just some kind of screen, any kind of
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: screw dealing with it daily, relentless energy.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Like the same energy, so much energy.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Everybody's heard it, everyone else has one. I need it
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: for safety. What if there's an emergency, I'll be left out.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I can't contact my friends. And sometimes we start thinking, well,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: it would make logistics a little bit easier, And maybe
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just being a little bit too unreasonable. Maybe I'm
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: being stricter than I need to make.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I'm going to jump in on that point. I mean,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: we've been through it, as is obvious from your comments,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: but you're not being unreasonable as a parent raising a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: tween or even an early teen when your children start
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: to hassle for a smartphone. And there's this general idea
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: that sort of permeated the culture that once kids are
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: in a year seven starting high school, that seems to
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: just be the time. Right they're catching public transport or
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: they've got this new found level of in a This kind.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Of feels like a coming of age thing, right, Yes,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: they're twelve, they were a twin.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, about to be a teenager, and it seeped
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: into the culture, and I just think it's a terrible idea.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: So before you hand over a smartphone, I think that
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: the most important thing to do is to get really
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: specific about the core question that you try to solve.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I really love this because in the early days we
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: didn't do that.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: No greatest mistakes we've ever made revolve around when we
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: gave our kids smartphones. And I'm advoice of experience plus
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: the voice of research here when I talk to parents
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: about why they're giving the kids a smartphone, What is
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the core problem you're trying to solve? The number one
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: thing that comes up every time, have a guess, safety, Yeah,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent. Like I just want to know where
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: they are. I want to know they're okay, because now
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: they're much more mobile, they're on their bikes or the
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: skateboards or their e bikes or whatever. Just need to
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: know where they are.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So I kind of cringe when I hear it, Yeah,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: a little bit, because I do. I feel the same
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: way like when our kids leave the house, I kind
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: of want to know where they are.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Well, your heart has just gone for a wander with them, right.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: That's right. But also the idea that we're teaching our
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: kids that without a phone they're not safe doesn't make
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: sense to me because no matter where they are, it's
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: not like we're dropping them off somewhere where they're going
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: to be surrounded by what danger, Like, there's always safe people, yeah,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: everywhere that are willing and able to help if it's
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: any given situation. Totally, you missed your bus, there's somebody
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: waiting at the bus stop you get left behind. After training,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: her teaches there like there's always.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Someone Yeah, yeah, and we need we actually believe that
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: the world is safe. So safety is the number one.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: There are a couple of others as well, logistics like
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: what if I forget, what if my child needs to
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: be picked up? There's just that sort of stuff.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So you ever forgotten? Yeah? Yeah, you know.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I was my favorite one. Mum dropped me off at
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the doctor and she said, I'll come and pick you up.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: And I don't know an hour or forty five minutes
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: or whatever it was. I think I was eleven or
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  Speaker 1: twelve and finished at the doctor, walked outside, no signed
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: of Mum. I waited for about forty minutes, like I
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: waited a long time, and then I just decided to walk.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I reckon. It was probably three or four k's and
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I was five hundred meters from being back where Mum was.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Mum was at work and I was walking to her workplace,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: and Mum's car tearing around the court like she just
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: realized she'd rung the surgery, realized that I wasn't there.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: She's like, oh no, where's Justin?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: And I'm still here to tell the tale.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: And in my eleven year old brain, I was thinking
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: which way would Mum drive to pick me up? So
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I just walked back that way and sure enough she
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: found me.
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  Speaker 2: I was okay, Well, I'm really proud say that I
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: have never forgotten our children. Not one of them has
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: a story to tell.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I reckon, you have forgotten everyone of our children asself.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I have so many times I'm perfect parenting.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: What else we got?
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  Speaker 2: So?
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: The two big ones are safety and logistics, and they're
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: kind of insolinc I want to talk about each of
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: those in a sec but there's two others that come
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: up a lot as well, the social connection side of things,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: making sure the kids don't miss out and they get
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: to talk to their friends. And also this idea that
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: well we need to give the kids advice because they're
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: going to have on eventually, so they might as well
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: just learn how to manage themselves. Now, they're the things
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: that come up, So let me spend like thirty seconds
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: on each. Feel free to jump in, but I want
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: to dismantle each of those arguments if I may. First off,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: and when it comes to safety, if you are really
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: worried about safety, I'm so sorry that that's the case,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: because the world is generally safe for our children, especially
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: in Australia. The data bear it out. But nevertheless, if
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: you are that worried about it, I'm going to say this.
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  Speaker 1: Your twelve year old does not need full internet access
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and a smartphone for an emergency. What they need is
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: a dumb phone. Kids don't need smartphones, they need smart parents,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: and smart parents give their kids dumb phones. Dumb phones exist,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: they're cheap, they work, and a basic phone will solve
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: the safety issue. They don't need a smartphone when it
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: comes to logistics and coordinating things. As you've already said.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Kids will be okay if you're running late, and they'll
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: figure something out, or they'll ask somebody to call their
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: parents because they don't have a phone.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I think having a really clear backup plan, like if
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: you don't show up, what's the backup plan?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that's one conversation once every six months, and
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: the kids will be across that.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: You know, mum forgets you. It's a free like three
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: k walk to start walking. Just walk And that was
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: my mum's That was literally actually what my mum would
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: say if I didn't, if I'm not there, when you
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: get there, start walking and I'll pick you up along
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: the way.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the way. I've got two solutions for
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: a number one, have a scheduled pickup time, like I
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: will meet you at this place at this time. It's
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: worked for decades, if not centuries, Right, this is what
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: parents have done throughout all of history until.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Reasons you've been forgotten and they've made it home.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean I know that someone in
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: their mind right now is going, oh yeah, but what
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: about and they're thinking of maybe Daniel Walkam or another
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: devastating story. The reason those stories stick in our minds
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: is because they are so unusual, they are so unique,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: they're so unlikely. But the other one that I was
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: going to point to is, and we're not sponsored for this,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: but the Space Talk watch. It means that you can
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: message your kids or you can make a quick phone
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: call and the basics are taken care of. So that's
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: what I would say about coordination. Your kids don't need
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: a fully Internet enabled device in their pocket so that
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: you can coordinate with them. When it comes to social connection,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I would actually argue that face to face friendships matter
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: much more than group chats every time, and group chats
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: cause more problems every time. And I mean, okay, quick
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  Speaker 1: case in point. Last year, one of our daughters was
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: involved in a friendship drama that happened at school. The
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: group chats went bonkers. We sat down in advised her,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: counseled with her, suggested that she removed herself from the
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: group chats. It was. It was just agonizing to watch
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: her make the decision to do it. She didn't want to,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: but eventually she pulled herself out of the group chat
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  Speaker 1: and guess what, the anxiety disappeared. She was a different
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: person within a day because she wasn't constantly checking the
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: group chat. So you've got competition in comparison, fear of
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: not being enough, cyberballing, fear just they don't need it.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: They don't need it, And the last one about learning
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: to manage it. I mean the data is clear. Every
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: yearyear delay, you lower the odds of harm. The adolescent
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: brain just is not equipped for it. So saying now
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: know it's like it's like saying I want my children
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: to learn how to manage alcohol, So I'm going to
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: start giving my twelve year old vodka.
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  Speaker 2: Or be you when you put it like that, it
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: just makes you feel a bit sick, to be honest.
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  Speaker 1: So after the break, the research backed position on the
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: correct answer to when to give your child a smartphone,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: plus our biggest tech mistake and what our standard position
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: on this question actually is, we're back. It's the Happy
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Families podcast with real parenting solutions. Every single day.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I have to ask the question, what does the data
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: say here? There is like what's the ideal scenario for parents?
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  Speaker 1: So if you asked, as some researchers did from New
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: York University last year, two hundred experts around the world
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: on this topic, you would get general agreement that delay
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: is a good way to go. You would not get
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: any consensus at all as to the right age because
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: of family circumstances, because of personality, attributes of the child,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: because of different contextual factors. Is your child and you're
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: a divergent Do they have an addictive kind of personality?
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Are they the kind of person who's totally chill and
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: aren't even going to remember that they've got a phone? Like,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: all of those factors come into it. But I want
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to go back to the data that I shared at
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: the top of the pod, just really briefly. Pediatrics is
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: one of the most pressed diigious journals peer reviewed on
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the planet. Last month, they published a paper that we
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: were linked to in the show notes where they followed
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: over ten thy twelve year olds and they found that
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: kids who got phones during their twelfth year had fifty
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: seven percent higher odds of clinical level mental health problems
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: by age thirteen, sixty two percent higher odds of insufficient sleep,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: forty percent higher odds of obesity, and thirty one percent
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: higher odds of depression. Now, I'm not trying to scare monger.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: You asked what the data shows. The data tells us
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that kids prefrontal cortexes, which are involved in impulse control
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and decision making, don't work particularly well. They're not mature
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: until their mid twenties. And basically every single year that
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: you delay is going to improve the odds. Earlier acquisition
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: of a smartphone equals worse outcomes.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: So I wish we had known all of this back
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: when our eldest was old enough to have a phone.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: And I look bad at her the introduction of a
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: mobile phone into her life, and it was the beginning
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: of all the hard that we experienced with her.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Yep, so oh sorry, And then we got it right
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: for the next couple of kids. But then we taught
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: at number five like she was twelve grade seven, and
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: we were like, ah, we've learned some good lessons, should
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: we fine? And I think that's actually the biggest parenting
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: mistake of our lives. Oh the drama that that has caused.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: So with a lot of experience behind us, the new
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: family standard is when you can afford it and pay
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: for it yourself, it's.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Yours and that includes both the device itself and the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: monthly contract that you have to pay to be on
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: the plan. And so here's why this works. It works
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: because it naturally delays acquisition.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Most twelve year olds kind of ford one thousand dollars
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: for a phone plus a fifty dollars monthly plan.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, or thirty or whatever it is.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: And by the time they can, they usually have a
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: part time job. They're learning to say, and they're typically
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: around about fifteen, anywhere from fifteen to seventeen.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: So interestingly, that ties in with Lonorskanazi, the Free Range
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: like the author of Free Range Kids, and they're like
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: grow movement. She says, once your kids are driving, that's
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: when they can get a phone. Lisa de Moor, one
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: of the United States most highly regarded child an adolescent psychologists,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: says the same thing, once kids are driving. And I
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: actually think so as well, because then they can afford it.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: But that's a point where you kind of do want
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: to be able to check in on them from a
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: safety point of view. Yeah, I still think that a
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: dumb phone will do it, even at that age. But
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: that's that's the first reason it delays acquisition.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: But it also teaches them financial responsibility. They learned the
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: value of money, Like if their output of one thousand
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: dollars or more is their own. Yes, then it's going
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: to really hurt if they don't treat it well and.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: They have to learn how to budget on goingly because
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: they know they're going to have that monthly plan that
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: they've got to pay for. You know what I like
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: about this as well, is it shifts the conversation. Yeah,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: so it's not can I have a phone? It's how
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: can I earn money to buy a phone?
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: So this is going of how script a little bit here?
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: But what do you do with the very very motivated
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: twelve year old who manages to save money enough money
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: to buy a phone? Well that's tricky, right.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: It is, And that is a bit of a spanner
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: in the works, right when you can afford it is
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: when you can buy one, I think that you just
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: sit down and say, well, there are some issues around this.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: So there are certain phones that were okay with in
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: certain phones where not. And then you get them to
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: buy a dumb phone and they can start paying the
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: monthly planed and guess what, as a twelve year old,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: no matter how motivated that motivated they are, when they're
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: paying thirty bucks a month or fifty bucks a month,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: at some point they're probably going to say I don't
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: like paying all of this money when there's a home
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: phone attached to the wall or where there are these
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: other options. I just think, generally speaking, they're not going
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to like it. But what I do like about it, regardless,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: is that the kids are the motivation shifts from I'm
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: entitled to a phone. I have the right to a
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: phone to achievement. I want to earn this. I want
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to be self sufficient. I want to figure this out.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: So the other thing that I would say is if
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: you've got a child who is so motivated they're saving
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: up a thousand plus dollars to buy a phone, and
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: they're also paying for a plan, and they are twelve
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: or thirteen or fourteen, I think you're going to have
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: other problems and other benefits to having a child who's
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: like that. I think that's generally a good problem to have,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: not a bad problem to have. And the last thing
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: that I've mentioned is that it creates built in consequences
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: like if they lose it or if they break it,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: guess what, I'm not paying for it, kiddo, Like, this
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: is your phone, this is your responsibility. Can't afford the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: monthly plan? Oh it looks like the service is going
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: to get suspended. No more parental bailouts. I just think
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: it teaches really good financial literacy. It opens up so
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: many good conversations.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: So if your child doesn't have a smartphone yet, get
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: them one. Just don't do it so set a clear
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: standard for them. When you can pay for it, you
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: can have one, provide or natives that solve actual problems.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: A basic phone for safety. So we've just reinstated the
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: landline in our home for safety and the kids think
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: it's awesome.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, love it. I would also say this if
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: you've got a child who does now have a smartphone
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: because you've jumped the gun and just thought, oh no,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: for safety and for logistics and whatever, and.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Like us, you're starting to regret the decision.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Like we did with our fifth THRILD. Yeah, I would
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: say number one, don't panic. You have not ruined them yet,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: but have really clear boundaries. Have conversations with your kids
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: around what those boundaries are. No phones in the bedroom
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: or in the bathroom. No phones during family meals or
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: on car rides unless it's a really long car ride,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and everyone agrees time limits on social media something. If
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: they're under sixteen, they shouldn't be on social media or anyway,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: time limits on gaming and look for ways that you
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: can scale it back, if you can pull it back,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and I think that's kind of it. Hunt Like, ultimately,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: former packed as parents, our kids aren't getting smartphones until
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: whatever age you decide. In our case too, you can
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: pay for it, and that you're the parent. You actually
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: do get to decide. Nobody's forcing you to go into
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the shop and buy your children a phone. You do
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: get to decide.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I guess the big question for me is what's more
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: important my child's approval right now or their mental health
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: and wellbeing?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay. Bottom line, as we wrap this up later
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: is better and when they can afford it is a
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: framework that actually works. Thanks so much for listening to
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Mim Hammond's provides research, admin and other support
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and if you want more info to make your family happier,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: check out our socials or visit Happy Families dot com
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: dot a