Latest / Business Brain – The Entrepreneurs’ Podcast / FridAI - Agents + Loops and AI Watermarking

Transcript

FridAI - Agents + Loops and AI Watermarking · Business Brain – The Entrepreneurs’ Podcast

• 0:01
  Dave Hamilton: Business Brain, episode 779 for Casual Friday AI, August 14th,
• 0:06
  Dave Hamilton: Navajo Code Talkers Day, 2026.
• 0:11
  Dave Hamilton: Nice. Navajo is one of the most difficult languages to learn,
• 0:15
  Dave Hamilton: they say. Is that right? Yeah, because it's not written, right?
• 0:19
  Dave Hamilton: And that was kind of why the Code Talkers were brought in during one of the wars.
• 0:26
  Dave Hamilton: But um but it is it is a spoken language and it's i don't know enough about
• 0:31
  Dave Hamilton: it i've i'm already out over my skis but yeah it's it's it's difficult to learn
• 0:35
  Dave Hamilton: and it's one you can only learn from other people that speak it i see you know yeah
• 0:42
  Dave Hamilton: um but it does you know what as we're talking about ai
• 0:45
  Dave Hamilton: which we will be it kind of makes me it reminds me of how ai has found like
• 0:52
  Dave Hamilton: it started communicating in english with you know markdown and all of that i
• 0:57
  Dave Hamilton: don't think that will persist i think
• 0:59
  Dave Hamilton: and maybe it already already hasn't like internally ai is using its own um shorthand
• 1:05
  Dave Hamilton: which would make perfect sense obviously sense yeah
• 1:08
  Dave Hamilton: anyway yeah interesting stuff greetings welcome to business brain the show where
• 1:12
  Dave Hamilton: we take some ideas and we do what we're doing we crunch them we dissect them
• 1:15
  Dave Hamilton: we use them to tune our business brains and level up our charmed lives
• 1:20
  Dave Hamilton: scribe.how slash brain if you mentioned brain you get your first month of scribe
• 1:25
  Dave Hamilton: capture free they are our sponsor today and we'll talk more about them in a
• 1:29
  Dave Hamilton: little bit for now here in durham new hampshire i'm dave hamilton
• 1:32
  Shannon Jean: And I'm Shannon Jean, coming to you from the back deck of River Song Retreat,
• 1:36
  Shannon Jean: one of our vacation rentals. And I'm up here working on fixing swamp coolers
• 1:40
  Shannon Jean: and septic tanks. It's just the glorious life of the entrepreneur.
• 1:45
  Dave Hamilton: Love that. That's great. Hey, why not? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:47
  Shannon Jean: That's good. Good to get your hands dirty and get away from the computer.
• 1:50
  Dave Hamilton: I have a quick little tip for us all, Shannon, because I did something this week.
• 1:55
  Dave Hamilton: I was prepping my other show, GigGab, and I knew that I had prepped for a guest that was coming.
• 2:05
  Dave Hamilton: I usually create a session inside of Claude, but it doesn't matter,
• 2:08
  Dave Hamilton: whatever your LLM is. And
• 2:14
  Dave Hamilton: I usually do one per guest. And I couldn't find one for Victor.
• 2:18
  Dave Hamilton: And I searched for this guy, Victor, in Claude.
• 2:22
  Dave Hamilton: But, you know, the search of the LLMs kind of sucks and it didn't find him.
• 2:27
  Dave Hamilton: And I'm like, OK, but like, I know that I did this and I'm not dreaming it up.
• 2:31
  Dave Hamilton: Like and and then I just started another chat and I said, all right,
• 2:36
  Dave Hamilton: well, I guess I didn't do this.
• 2:39
  Dave Hamilton: I think I did. But we got to prep for this person. Here's some things I know about them.
• 2:44
  Dave Hamilton: OK. And it came back and it said, hang on, let me see if I can find it.
• 2:49
  Dave Hamilton: Oh oh and that is my is the tip my friends because it did it was like ah
• 2:54
  Dave Hamilton: i yep i did find it i see why you couldn't because you actually did it in the
• 3:00
  Dave Hamilton: same session as a different guest because the two of them are somewhat related
• 3:04
  Dave Hamilton: and it made sense in the moment
• 3:06
  Dave Hamilton: to keep the thread going but now you don't know where you are so
• 3:10
  Dave Hamilton: what i'm going to do is import all the stuff about him into this session,
• 3:15
  Dave Hamilton: and we can keep going from there.
• 3:16
  Dave Hamilton: And it was like, why am I trying to use antiquated search tools
• 3:22
  Dave Hamilton: to search for a session in my AI when I have my AI right there with full access
• 3:28
  Dave Hamilton: to that data store specifically.
• 3:31
  Dave Hamilton: So use your LLM, your chat bot to search for content you've created with your
• 3:37
  Dave Hamilton: chats that you can't find.
• 3:39
  Shannon Jean: That's smart.
• 3:39
  Dave Hamilton: I love it. You're burning credits to do it that like that is or tokens, but you know. Yeah.
• 3:43
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. Tokens. Yeah. Anyway, that's my one thing I want to talk about is,
• 3:48
  Shannon Jean: uh well two things agents and loops and i was talking to uh somebody the other
• 3:52
  Shannon Jean: day and they described an agent to me basically uh like this uh,
• 3:59
  Shannon Jean: you should not type it out you should just voice record or use some voice recording
• 4:04
  Shannon Jean: thing and just start talking about what you want this thing to do okay it could
• 4:09
  Shannon Jean: be page pages paragraphs whatever
• 4:12
  Shannon Jean: and you should put it into your LLM and say, I want you to do this.
• 4:16
  Shannon Jean: It could be on a regular basis. It could be this, that you give all the instructions,
• 4:21
  Shannon Jean: and that's how you create the agent.
• 4:23
  Shannon Jean: I don't know a lot about agents because I'm not sophisticated,
• 4:27
  Shannon Jean: but do you think that's right?
• 4:29
  Dave Hamilton: No. I mean, I don't think it's wrong. I think it's unlimited.
• 4:34
  Dave Hamilton: I do think it's the wrong way to begin thinking about them.
• 4:38
  Dave Hamilton: It is correct. But whether you type, it doesn't matter how you get the information in.
• 4:43
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was secondary.
• 4:44
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, exactly. Every single time you interact with your chatbot,
• 4:51
  Dave Hamilton: it is becoming an agent for you.
• 4:53
  Dave Hamilton: But a lot of times those agents are ephemeral, meaning they go away, right?
• 4:59
  Dave Hamilton: They come into being, you interact with it, and then it goes away.
• 5:03
  Dave Hamilton: When people talk about agents, usually what they mean is agents with some level
• 5:10
  Dave Hamilton: of autonomy that are going to be doing your work or their work properly.
• 5:17
  Dave Hamilton: Without you being there to prompt them now got it you know does that require
• 5:23
  Dave Hamilton: three pages of of instruction or one prompt of you know one sentence of instruction
• 5:27
  Dave Hamilton: either right it could be either and it really like that's that's not the most important part um
• 5:33
  Dave Hamilton: when i say i'm gonna move you know we talked a few weeks ago about uh advising
• 5:39
  Dave Hamilton: everybody when your chat starts to get a little long you move it to co-work
• 5:42
  Dave Hamilton: or claude code if you're doing code or whatever you know but
• 5:45
  Dave Hamilton: or or codex or you know any of the things perplexity computer whatever you know
• 5:48
  Dave Hamilton: whatever you want um because they all do it now once once you move into
• 5:55
  Dave Hamilton: like a co-work or a code session in the in the clod world that's still where
• 5:58
  Dave Hamilton: i live uh that's when that's where the agents in that sense really start to
• 6:06
  Dave Hamilton: to come into fruition because you can tell like i like i talked about my um my
• 6:13
  Dave Hamilton: I took my 10 grand from selling that domain yeah i gave it to claude i gave
• 6:17
  Dave Hamilton: it to claude co-work and it has an agent that runs you know
• 6:22
  Dave Hamilton: several times a day pulling in information checking signals seeing how it's
• 6:26
  Dave Hamilton: doing and then it has an agent
• 6:29
  Dave Hamilton: that runs once a week that looks at what all the other agents have been doing
• 6:34
  Dave Hamilton: in that past week and is kind of the management agent then there's a third one
• 6:38
  Dave Hamilton: that talks to me right and so there's there's essentially a three-layer thing
• 6:43
  Dave Hamilton: but the the agents that run all week there's multiple agents that run in parallel
• 6:47
  Dave Hamilton: all week doing this thing
• 6:48
  Dave Hamilton: and it's been very fascinating like it it picked some and
• 6:51
  Shannon Jean: They're are they running in loops.
• 6:54
  Dave Hamilton: Like or is that a different yeah i mean that was yes yeah like there's there's
• 6:58
  Dave Hamilton: a there's a loop that runs several
• 6:59
  Dave Hamilton: times a day yeah checking prices of all the things that it's bought
• 7:04
  Dave Hamilton: i i don't have it doing any it's a very simple thing that i have this doing
• 7:08
  Dave Hamilton: so it's not doing any shorts or anything it's not using any margin it is literally
• 7:12
  Dave Hamilton: taking that 10 grand and buying things long and and
• 7:17
  Dave Hamilton: you know seeing which ones it can use to make money in 90 days and we were down
• 7:21
  Dave Hamilton: for a while it had picked some of the wrong stocks it had picked some of the
• 7:24
  Dave Hamilton: wrong crypto it basically went 60 crypto 40 stock that was its decision
• 7:29
  Dave Hamilton: because it's like if you want it if you want this to pay off in 90 days we think
• 7:32
  Dave Hamilton: that's that you got it you got to go with something that's volatile and it's
• 7:36
  Dave Hamilton: like yeah okay that makes sense um
• 7:38
  Dave Hamilton: it turns out though that uh we're basically break even on crypto and now we're making money on stocks
• 7:44
  Dave Hamilton: microsoft stock was one of the ones it picked and that's been going gangbusters
• 7:48
  Dave Hamilton: meta stock was one that it picked and that tanked so it unloaded meta and it
• 7:53
  Dave Hamilton: just unloaded another Crypto the other day.
• 7:55
  Dave Hamilton: It runs these decisions by me, but it's...
• 7:57
  Shannon Jean: I love that.
• 7:59
  Dave Hamilton: Go ahead. No, but it's built not to wait for me.
• 8:03
  Dave Hamilton: It says, here's what I'm supposed to do. Here's what I propose we do.
• 8:06
  Dave Hamilton: You can approve now, veto now, and if you do neither in 48 hours,
• 8:11
  Dave Hamilton: I'm going to do it. I love it. Yeah.
• 8:14
  Shannon Jean: It's unemotional, right?
• 8:15
  Dave Hamilton: That's what I like about it.
• 8:16
  Shannon Jean: And so it's like, hey, well, maybe I shouldn't sell that meta because it may
• 8:20
  Shannon Jean: come. And I was like, no, no, we're cutting it.
• 8:21
  Dave Hamilton: Dude, we already made the rules.
• 8:22
  Shannon Jean: We're going to go to.
• 8:23
  Dave Hamilton: The next thing. Yeah, in fact, the things that run the loops all week are not
• 8:28
  Dave Hamilton: agents, really, because they're dumb.
• 8:31
  Dave Hamilton: They do not ever use the LLM. The LLM built their instructions,
• 8:35
  Dave Hamilton: but their instructions are fixed.
• 8:38
  Dave Hamilton: When a stock gets to a certain point above or below our purchase price,
• 8:43
  Dave Hamilton: a thing happens, and there's several different things.
• 8:45
  Shannon Jean: You should do a screen recording tutorial on that.
• 8:48
  Dave Hamilton: Dude. I think people would love that. People would love it. Yeah,
• 8:50
  Dave Hamilton: you're not wrong. It's huge.
• 8:52
  Dave Hamilton: And i asked it the other night i'm like gosh you know like i'm getting in pay
• 8:55
  Dave Hamilton: i was impatient turns out we're like 34 days imagine that yeah
• 8:59
  Dave Hamilton: and and i'm like shouldn't we be more aggressive and maybe like hyper trading
• 9:03
  Dave Hamilton: this stuff like can we do it you know like this that and the other thing and
• 9:06
  Dave Hamilton: and you know we're not analyzing all the time we're just like following these
• 9:10
  Dave Hamilton: rules but shouldn't we be analyzing and it was like whoa
• 9:14
  Dave Hamilton: the whole point of this is to not be emotional or influenced by things that
• 9:21
  Dave Hamilton: we've come up with the rules we have a 45 day review where we're going to review the rules
• 9:27
  Dave Hamilton: but part of the rules is that we don't change the rules for the first 45 days
• 9:31
  Dave Hamilton: it's cool right and it was like i was like oh right it's like so you
• 9:35
  Dave Hamilton: it even told me you don't want the llm involved in this daily stuff because
• 9:40
  Dave Hamilton: it's going to start changing its rules because that's what you're asking it to do you know
• 9:45
  Shannon Jean: And it's like totally makes sense i love.
• 9:47
  Dave Hamilton: It so yeah I'd love
• 9:49
  Shannon Jean: To see how you put that together I think that'd be great.
• 9:51
  Dave Hamilton: I like, I basically spent less time on it, starting it than I did explaining it to you.
• 9:58
  Dave Hamilton: Like I really just said, here's 10 grand.
• 10:01
  Dave Hamilton: It's found money. I don't care if I lose it all, but I'd like to make something with it.
• 10:06
  Dave Hamilton: What can you do in 90 days? It's yours to play with.
• 10:10
  Dave Hamilton: And it asked me some questions, you know, how, how do you, how automated do
• 10:14
  Dave Hamilton: you want it? And I'm like, as automated as you can be. I was like,
• 10:16
  Dave Hamilton: great. You've got to get an accounts with Alpaca and Kraken.
• 10:18
  Dave Hamilton: I'm like, got, got one, just got the other. You know, I already had one,
• 10:21
  Dave Hamilton: just got the other. Like it was a, yeah.
• 10:23
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. Love it. Yeah. It's great.
• 10:26
  Shannon Jean: Good stuff, man.
• 10:26
  Dave Hamilton: It is. Yeah. No, the, and I have lots of other things like this and I'm,
• 10:32
  Dave Hamilton: I'm using it in our business where it's like, you know, we're constantly looking
• 10:36
  Dave Hamilton: for new shows to bring into Backbeat.
• 10:38
  Dave Hamilton: And so I've got an agent that's just constantly researching and looking at things.
• 10:43
  Dave Hamilton: And again, it's being unemotional about it. And then when it passes it up the
• 10:46
  Dave Hamilton: stream, based on the rules, it finds things and then we'll pass it up the stream
• 10:52
  Dave Hamilton: to something to do a little more soft research on it.
• 10:57
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. You know, and then if it passes that, then I find out about it.
• 11:02
  Dave Hamilton: Right. And so it's this multi-tiered approach.
• 11:05
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah like that's how i'm using agents and loops one of the ways nice so that's
• 11:09
  Dave Hamilton: great yeah awesome super helpful yep it's fun and and once you start using it
• 11:15
  Dave Hamilton: those terms can sound yeah um
• 11:18
  Dave Hamilton: uh it's scary it's the wrong word but confusing intimidating
• 11:21
  Shannon Jean: A little bit.
• 11:22
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah yeah yeah and and then you don't do it but what you
• 11:26
  Dave Hamilton: what what i realized eventually was i was already doing it i just wasn't calling
• 11:31
  Dave Hamilton: them agents in loops it's just like i yeah i have the thing doing the things for me yep so
• 11:36
  Dave Hamilton: yeah i love it but you feel like you're missing out when somebody says oh i've
• 11:39
  Dave Hamilton: got a bunch of agents running it's like oh i don't totally feel that way and
• 11:42
  Dave Hamilton: then i'm like oh wait actually i do have a bunch of agents running it gets actually
• 11:45
  Dave Hamilton: kind of yeah yeah it's good nice
• 11:48
  Dave Hamilton: yeah my son built an agent that tracks the
• 11:51
  Dave Hamilton: um set lists of rush concerts in real time nice and alerts us if there's any
• 11:56
  Dave Hamilton: changes and things like that it's like you know it's fun like yeah that's great yeah yeah
• 12:00
  Shannon Jean: Very cool.
• 12:02
  Dave Hamilton: All right. We have, oh yeah. Speaking of Claude, they're doing something very
• 12:06
  Shannon Jean: Important to talk.
• 12:07
  Dave Hamilton: About. We do. I'm glad you brought this up. That will be the,
• 12:11
  Dave Hamilton: the, the, the, the next, next thing we do, because what we're going to do right
• 12:15
  Dave Hamilton: now is we want to tell you about our sponsor.
• 12:19
  Dave Hamilton: Look, here's the thing. Nobody warns you about when you start building a business
• 12:23
  Dave Hamilton: at some point, all your best systems live entirely inside your own head.
• 12:29
  Dave Hamilton: The charmed life you're building runs on processes that only you fully understand.
• 12:34
  Dave Hamilton: And the moment you need to hand one off, teach it, or scale it,
• 12:40
  Dave Hamilton: you're back to square one explaining the same thing from scratch.
• 12:44
  Dave Hamilton: I ran into this building our podcast network here at Backbeat Media, right?
• 12:47
  Dave Hamilton: We built a custom podcast management and schedule tracking system from the ground up.
• 12:52
  Dave Hamilton: It works great, but documenting how to actually use it, that was the part that
• 12:57
  Dave Hamilton: never got done until Scribe.
• 13:00
  Dave Hamilton: Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500 that does
• 13:07
  Dave Hamilton: something genuinely remarkable.
• 13:10
  Dave Hamilton: You turn on the browser extension or desktop app, go through a process exactly as you normally would.
• 13:17
  Dave Hamilton: And Scribe builds the step-by-step guide automatically.
• 13:21
  Dave Hamilton: Every click, every screenshot captured and formatted without you writing a single word.
• 13:27
  Dave Hamilton: What used to take hours of documentation work is done the moment you finish the process.
• 13:33
  Dave Hamilton: And then it gets even better. Anyone following that process gets real-time on-screen
• 13:39
  Dave Hamilton: guidance inside the actual tool right from the moment the guide is created.
• 13:45
  Dave Hamilton: Scribe also automatically redacts sensitive information from every screenshot,
• 13:50
  Dave Hamilton: names, account numbers, emails, so nothing slips through.
• 13:54
  Dave Hamilton: If you want to see what Scribe could look like for your org,
• 13:57
  Dave Hamilton: head to scribe.how slash brain and mention brain for your first month of Scribe
• 14:04
  Dave Hamilton: capture free on select plans.
• 14:06
  Dave Hamilton: That's S-C-R-I-B-E dot how slash
• 14:10
  Dave Hamilton: brain. Go check it out. I think you're going to like it as much as I do.
• 14:13
  Dave Hamilton: And our thanks to Scribe. for sponsoring this episode.
• 14:17
  Dave Hamilton: All right, Shannon, what's Anthropic up to here?
• 14:21
  Shannon Jean: I think Anthropic is a really interesting company.
• 14:23
  Dave Hamilton: I've said that many times. I agree.
• 14:25
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, they're the ones, you know, a couple of things, kind of screaming the
• 14:31
  Shannon Jean: loudest about everybody's going to lose their jobs.
• 14:34
  Shannon Jean: And then we can't have, you got to control these AI.
• 14:37
  Shannon Jean: And I mentioned on the show before where I think they would like some regulation
• 14:43
  Shannon Jean: set that would help protect their business.
• 14:46
  Dave Hamilton: Right?
• 14:46
  Shannon Jean: I don't think it's altruistic as they want to make it seem. And they do some
• 14:52
  Shannon Jean: weird stuff. And I love Claude. I use it like every day.
• 14:54
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, they certainly appear publicly to be the most altruistic of the major AI platforms.
• 15:03
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, I think that's virtue signaling. And so that's my take.
• 15:07
  Dave Hamilton: Well, every AI platform has virtue signaled against the previous ones,
• 15:11
  Dave Hamilton: right? Like they all grew out of each other, right? OpenAI was created because
• 15:15
  Dave Hamilton: somebody at Google was like, we can't have a megalomaniac in charge of this stuff. So they built it.
• 15:20
  Dave Hamilton: Correct. And then somebody at OpenAI was like, holy crap, we can't have a megalomaniac
• 15:24
  Dave Hamilton: in charge of this stuff. And so they built Anthropic.
• 15:25
  Shannon Jean: So they went to Anthropic.
• 15:26
  Dave Hamilton: They started Anthropic. Like that's how this is all, it always happens. Correct.
• 15:32
  Shannon Jean: So what they announced, I think yesterday, was it yesterday?
• 15:40
  Shannon Jean: When was it? They posted it in their blog post.
• 15:42
  Dave Hamilton: We're going to put it in. Doesn't matter. Earlier this week.
• 15:43
  Shannon Jean: Doesn't matter. Anyway. Yeah. Early this week that everything that is produced
• 15:47
  Shannon Jean: by Claude will now have a watermark.
• 15:50
  Shannon Jean: Every image, every text will have hidden threads woven into it so that you'll
• 15:59
  Shannon Jean: be able to identify it as AI and created by Claude. And...
• 16:05
  Shannon Jean: First saw that, and I was like, oh, it's great. It's going to get rid of a lot
• 16:07
  Shannon Jean: of AI slop and a lot of garbage that you see. You'll be able to identify it.
• 16:11
  Shannon Jean: But at the same time, I start thinking, well, I use Grammarly to write everything
• 16:18
  Shannon Jean: that I write. It helps me with my grammar.
• 16:20
  Shannon Jean: Do I have to now attribute that to Grammarly?
• 16:23
  Dave Hamilton: Well, they're not saying you have to attribute.
• 16:25
  Shannon Jean: No, no. But I guarantee you other people are going to be attributing it to whatever you use.
• 16:33
  Dave Hamilton: Oh, I see. They're going to be
• 16:34
  Dave Hamilton: running everything you publish through the thing. Yeah, that makes sense.
• 16:39
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, sure. And it's not, and like these threads, these hidden AI threads through
• 16:45
  Shannon Jean: your text, they stay there.
• 16:47
  Shannon Jean: Whether you cut and paste, even whether you edit it, it's going to be there forever.
• 16:51
  Shannon Jean: So I'm not one of those people that really cuts and pastes AI.
• 16:55
  Shannon Jean: I use it as like my thought partner and I help it, help me figure stuff out.
• 17:01
  Shannon Jean: Some of it is super valuable to, to like when you're creating a report or creating,
• 17:07
  Shannon Jean: we use it to create our business blueprints that it takes our knowledge,
• 17:11
  Shannon Jean: everything we talked about for the last hour or so.
• 17:15
  Shannon Jean: And it creates a very good threaded, uh, you know, guide to help you,
• 17:20
  Shannon Jean: you know, achieve things.
• 17:21
  Shannon Jean: Yep. So, and I don't know that it matters that that's.
• 17:24
  Dave Hamilton: No, but it's interesting. So there's. Weird to me. Um, I want to,
• 17:29
  Dave Hamilton: I want to speak about that.
• 17:31
  Dave Hamilton: Just to frame this for everybody, at least the way Anthropic is framing it,
• 17:35
  Dave Hamilton: is that there is the new EU AI Act, and it has a code of practice on transparency
• 17:44
  Dave Hamilton: of AI-generated content,
• 17:46
  Dave Hamilton: and that's at least the catalyst, the stated catalyst for them doing this, right?
• 17:52
  Dave Hamilton: They say that all models that come out from August 2nd, 2026 onward will do
• 17:58
  Dave Hamilton: this, this watermarking.
• 18:01
  Dave Hamilton: And it applies across everything, you know, whether you're using it via API,
• 18:06
  Dave Hamilton: Claude code, Claude cowork, Claude chat, whatever. It doesn't matter.
• 18:11
  Dave Hamilton: And they will provide tools to detect Claude's watermark. So this isn't going
• 18:16
  Dave Hamilton: to be hidden, but you know, only for them to see.
• 18:20
  Dave Hamilton: And even though it is built because of the EU's AI Act, it will apply to Claude
• 18:29
  Dave Hamilton: usage by everyone. Worldwide.
• 18:33
  Dave Hamilton: If you're using older models, those haven't yet been adapted to watermark things,
• 18:36
  Dave Hamilton: but they say that they might.
• 18:41
  Dave Hamilton: It's clear that they are in some things.
• 18:44
  Dave Hamilton: Um it they they specifically call out images like svgs pngs or jpegs obviously
• 18:51
  Dave Hamilton: you mentioned the text uh code that it writes yes and
• 18:58
  Dave Hamilton: And spreadsheets, less clear as to whether, like, how much it can watermark
• 19:05
  Dave Hamilton: that for you, unless it starts putting it in the metadata, which spreadsheets,
• 19:08
  Dave Hamilton: of course, have all over the place.
• 19:10
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, when I use CloudCode, and this has been true since I started using CloudCode,
• 19:16
  Dave Hamilton: I have CloudCode. It'll write the code.
• 19:19
  Dave Hamilton: And then for every sort of batch of code that it writes, that maybe it adds
• 19:23
  Dave Hamilton: a feature to our thing or whatever.
• 19:25
  Dave Hamilton: When i have it commit that to our code repository it commits it as being co-written
• 19:31
  Dave Hamilton: by claude and me now i could choose to to make those commits and sure and just
• 19:38
  Dave Hamilton: not mention claude but i don't want i'm too lazy to do that i want claude to
• 19:41
  Dave Hamilton: because claude writes great commit notes it's great
• 19:43
  Shannon Jean: Yeah right right.
• 19:44
  Dave Hamilton: And claude did help create it and that's i'm totally fine with it um so like
• 19:51
  Dave Hamilton: In a sense, this doesn't bother me, but to your point with you're going to get
• 19:55
  Dave Hamilton: the people out there that want to, you know, quote unquote, catch everyone that's
• 19:59
  Dave Hamilton: using AI and the watermark,
• 20:04
  Dave Hamilton: at least as it's described here, does not indicate how much of the source material.
• 20:12
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, it's original, right? is original right because for example we will take
• 20:19
  Dave Hamilton: the uh i was just showing shannon something that i've started doing and it's
• 20:22
  Dave Hamilton: great and we're going to do it with this show too is um
• 20:26
  Dave Hamilton: we will take the full transcript of this episode so clearly words that shannon
• 20:31
  Dave Hamilton: and i said or stumbled over or whatever and feed that transcript into claude
• 20:38
  Dave Hamilton: or some other llm but in this case let's say claude right
• 20:41
  Dave Hamilton: and tell it hey look this transcript we just we record two at once so therefore there will be
• 20:47
  Dave Hamilton: two episodes and we'll have to tell it listen for when this episode you know
• 20:51
  Dave Hamilton: episode 778 starts and ends and then there'll be some conversation in the middle
• 20:55
  Dave Hamilton: don't summarize that do only the episode conversations for 778 and 779
• 21:02
  Dave Hamilton: And i think it'll do it it'll probably require some tweaking of the prompt yeah
• 21:06
  Dave Hamilton: but like the i don't want to say all of the source material because it's it's
• 21:11
  Dave Hamilton: pulling from that which is built into the model as well
• 21:16
  Dave Hamilton: It is summarizing.
• 21:17
  Shannon Jean: Summarizing. Us.
• 21:19
  Dave Hamilton: It's our content. Yes. The summarized version of it is Claude, but it's our content.
• 21:26
  Dave Hamilton: And candidly, this is something I've been doing with all of my shows for years
• 21:30
  Dave Hamilton: now because why in the world would I not? Why wouldn't you?
• 21:34
  Dave Hamilton: I forget what we've talked about. It's like using a calculator. Yeah.
• 21:37
  Shannon Jean: Do you want to use an abacus or do you want to use an HB whatever calculator?
• 21:40
  Dave Hamilton: You want to do it with your hand. Crazy. We skipped the abacus step here in a sense. Yeah.
• 21:45
  Dave Hamilton: Like we went from doing math by hand to having calculators. And it's like, well,
• 21:49
  Shannon Jean: Everything that you put into Claude, if you summarize it, Claude Anthropic is
• 21:54
  Shannon Jean: basically now, I mean, they've, I guess they've taken ownership of it anyway. Sure.
• 21:58
  Shannon Jean: When you're using their services, but now they're really going to stamp it as
• 22:01
  Shannon Jean: this is Claude. We created Claude created this.
• 22:04
  Dave Hamilton: Ownership is not like, I believe it's already been stated. I don't know if it's been tested.
• 22:13
  Dave Hamilton: I'm definitely over my skis again here. but uh
• 22:18
  Dave Hamilton: That which is created by AI cannot be deemed to be owned by the AI.
• 22:27
  Dave Hamilton: Whether it can be deemed to be owned by you or not is where things are fuzzy.
• 22:31
  Dave Hamilton: It's interesting. Yeah.
• 22:33
  Dave Hamilton: So Claude Amthropic can't say, oh, no, like now I own all the content on your site. No.
• 22:38
  Shannon Jean: No, no, not owned, but created by.
• 22:40
  Dave Hamilton: Yes.
• 22:42
  Shannon Jean: Instead of you and I being the creator. Correct. And it's summarizing our creation.
• 22:47
  Shannon Jean: It's going to say, created my clock in one way or another.
• 22:50
  Dave Hamilton: The watermark will imply that. And that's the thing. It doesn't, as
• 22:55
  Shannon Jean: Far as- That doesn't sit well with me.
• 22:56
  Dave Hamilton: It does, as far as we know, it doesn't communicate. You know,
• 23:00
  Dave Hamilton: did I simply prompt it, hey, fabricate a potential episode that Dave and Shannon
• 23:06
  Dave Hamilton: would have done and summarize it versus here is a literal episode. Please summarize this.
• 23:10
  Shannon Jean: Those are two very different things. Yeah. It's unbelievably arrogant.
• 23:14
  Shannon Jean: In my opinion, and it tracks with everything they've done.
• 23:18
  Shannon Jean: Here's what I think they've just done. Two things.
• 23:21
  Shannon Jean: They just pushed, they're going to just push more and more people to open source
• 23:25
  Shannon Jean: models that are going to run on your local desktop and different things. Well, for summarizing.
• 23:31
  Shannon Jean: That's good. Yeah. All that stuff. Yeah. That's going to get easier and easier
• 23:34
  Shannon Jean: and easier to implement. So even though it's like now people like,
• 23:38
  Shannon Jean: what, what's open claw? What's Kimmy? What's this?
• 23:40
  Shannon Jean: That's all going to, that, that eventually is going to just become another app.
• 23:43
  Shannon Jean: You just do on your thing and you're not going to have any problems.
• 23:45
  Shannon Jean: The second thing is I.
• 23:47
  Dave Hamilton: It already exists on your iPhone. It has for a couple of years.
• 23:50
  Dave Hamilton: This summarizing part of it.
• 23:51
  Shannon Jean: Yeah yeah but i also think that the more these these companies flail around and uh,
• 23:58
  Shannon Jean: make all these crazy wild statements and everything else it just opens the door
• 24:02
  Shannon Jean: i think for a company like apple and just to strut right in and say hey you know what,
• 24:09
  Shannon Jean: it's just like the music industry when job said everything's a buck yeah you
• 24:14
  Shannon Jean: we're gonna stop and we're gonna stop all this piracy because everything's at 99 cents. Who cares?
• 24:19
  Shannon Jean: And everybody's like, nobody will ever stop. Yeah, it did.
• 24:22
  Dave Hamilton: I think it's going to be very similar. No, I agree with this about the music industry.
• 24:27
  Dave Hamilton: I don't see the similarity here. So help me with that.
• 24:31
  Shannon Jean: Well, I think that they're the ones that are going to make it easier for everyone.
• 24:35
  Dave Hamilton: Oh, I see.
• 24:36
  Shannon Jean: To access and use and to keep the data yourself.
• 24:39
  Dave Hamilton: Yes, I use it. But you're still using a model that Apple created.
• 24:43
  Dave Hamilton: So, for example, let's say they don't currently, but let's say Anthropic chooses
• 24:49
  Dave Hamilton: to release an open source model, you know, like some companies do,
• 24:54
  Dave Hamilton: like Google does this, right? Right, right, right. But it happens. Yeah.
• 24:58
  Dave Hamilton: You know, an older version. I mean, you couldn't run Opus on your own hardware.
• 25:02
  Dave Hamilton: Correct. Like these frontier models are crazy long. Yeah, they're true. Yeah.
• 25:07
  Dave Hamilton: Right. But you can run a crappy model on your own hardware.
• 25:10
  Dave Hamilton: And it is a crappy model. like in compared to what you would get with,
• 25:15
  Dave Hamilton: you know, GPT 5.6 or whatever. And, and Opus five or even Opus three. Yeah. It's, it's crap.
• 25:22
  Shannon Jean: But I think a lot of the, what we, the day-to-day things we do.
• 25:27
  Dave Hamilton: The crappy model is fine.
• 25:28
  Shannon Jean: We work great on this crappy model. Correct. It's like 10x what it used to be. Maybe it's not 100x.
• 25:33
  Dave Hamilton: No, but for just summarizing, it's fine. Yeah, it is. And so,
• 25:41
  Dave Hamilton: yes, I think that will... You're right. Apple is already one of the companies
• 25:47
  Dave Hamilton: that removes the friction from that.
• 25:51
  Shannon Jean: From everything.
• 25:52
  Dave Hamilton: But it's still a model that Apple created. so yeah
• 25:57
  Shannon Jean: Yeah i'm not saying there's anything.
• 25:58
  Dave Hamilton: Wrong with no no no but if if anthropic is doing this because of the eu's ai act then
• 26:07
  Dave Hamilton: assuming that that act holds water then every model that is released eventually
• 26:14
  Dave Hamilton: will also have to do this watermarking it's not that claude's doing it on their i mean
• 26:22
  Dave Hamilton: If, if, if you get a model that didn't come from, uh, I can't think of a hungry
• 26:28
  Dave Hamilton: panda. It's not hungry panda. It's the other thing that, but the,
• 26:30
  Dave Hamilton: you know, the, the site that has like the, the jailbroken models, right?
• 26:34
  Dave Hamilton: Like then it, they too would have these watermarks. They don't like,
• 26:39
  Dave Hamilton: we don't think they do. We don't know that they do right now,
• 26:42
  Dave Hamilton: but if this, if this thing is going to happen, then all of the models being
• 26:45
  Dave Hamilton: released, even into open source, unless you train your own model,
• 26:49
  Shannon Jean: In which case. No, that's not going to work. It's not going to happen.
• 26:52
  Shannon Jean: It's going to be interesting to see how it shakes out.
• 26:54
  Shannon Jean: I think the EU, a lot of their rules, I mean, even Apple says we're not doing
• 26:58
  Shannon Jean: that. So we're just not selling that iPhone here. This is crazy.
• 27:01
  Shannon Jean: And so I think a lot of it is because not much. Well, this will really be biased.
• 27:06
  Shannon Jean: I'm sorry if you're listening overseas. But they don't have the creator.
• 27:09
  Shannon Jean: They don't have the technology. And they want to put all these rules and guardrails,
• 27:15
  Shannon Jean: and limitations on this technology that we're building here or in other countries.
• 27:19
  Shannon Jean: But anyway, I think it's interesting.
• 27:22
  Dave Hamilton: I think the definition of AI-generated content needs to be less binary than
• 27:29
  Dave Hamilton: it is right now. I agree with you. I agree with you. That's the issue.
• 27:32
  Shannon Jean: I think that would.
• 27:32
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, that's the issue. Because we don't know, like, okay, Claude helped create this.
• 27:39
  Dave Hamilton: From what? What?
• 27:42
  Shannon Jean: Yes. From scratch, where you did nothing, that's totally different.
• 27:45
  Dave Hamilton: Two different things.
• 27:46
  Shannon Jean: If you're like, hey, here's, you know.
• 27:49
  Dave Hamilton: I think both can be transparently disclosed. Yeah. I don't have any issue telling people.
• 27:54
  Shannon Jean: No, I don't care either.
• 27:55
  Dave Hamilton: Or even putting on the site that, you know,
• 27:59
  Dave Hamilton: this summary of the episode. Transcript created by Claude. Was created.
• 28:02
  Dave Hamilton: They should come sponsor us and we'd be glad to do that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 28:05
  Dave Hamilton: Exactly. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. I have no problem, like, with that being a known thing.
• 28:11
  Dave Hamilton: But I want the full train to be known, not the end, the last step. Yeah.
• 28:16
  Shannon Jean: Right. Yes.
• 28:16
  Dave Hamilton: That's the issue.
• 28:17
  Shannon Jean: Yes, exactly.
• 28:18
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. Although I think it's probably pretty obvious. If you,
• 28:20
  Dave Hamilton: if you come to the page, like for us, there's a summary and then you can press play.
• 28:26
  Shannon Jean: So probably, you know, like, yeah, that's right.
• 28:30
  Dave Hamilton: But that won't stop the crazy people that want to just complain about AI content.
• 28:34
  Dave Hamilton: So anyway, correct. Anyway. All right.
• 28:36
  Shannon Jean: What do you think the big takeaway today is? I have mine.
• 28:42
  Dave Hamilton: We talked about. You're already using agents. Yeah. use them more.
• 28:47
  Shannon Jean: That's, that's to me.
• 28:47
  Dave Hamilton: I think you really think about,
• 28:49
  Shannon Jean: Uh, implementing agents that I loved your description of, uh,
• 28:54
  Shannon Jean: you know, a lot of what we create is really an agent, but then it goes away.
• 28:57
  Shannon Jean: So think about how you create permanency, uh, with those and how you using loops
• 29:03
  Shannon Jean: is how you get them to do it repeatedly over and over to either refine what
• 29:08
  Shannon Jean: they're doing or just do it on a regular basis.
• 29:10
  Dave Hamilton: Yep. So learn to create persistent agents and Loops. Perfect. I think that's great.
• 29:15
  Shannon Jean: And if you want to learn about that, guess what we're going to use to help create this summary?
• 29:20
  Shannon Jean: Go to businessbrain.show slash blueprints and you can get a deep dive into creating
• 29:27
  Shannon Jean: Agents and Loops and a bunch of other stuff that we'll be glad to help you with.
• 29:30
  Dave Hamilton: And a bunch of other stuff, yeah. Thanks for hanging out with us,
• 29:33
  Dave Hamilton: folks. Make sure to do that.
• 29:35
  Dave Hamilton: Businessbrain.show slash blueprints and keep living that charmed life. We'll see you next week.
• 29:40
  Shannon Jean: See ya.
• 29:42
  Dave Hamilton: Later.