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Aster Thackery - What If your REAL skill is connecting people? · Difference Makers Podcast

• 0:13
  Sinead Donovan: Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, everybody, to this next episode of Difference Makers Discuss yet again.
• 0:21
  Sinead Donovan: I am joined by an amazing chart accountant who is gonna talk to us about her global journey, her global adventure.
• 0:29
  Sinead Donovan: Aster Thackery is a member of Chart Accountants Australia New Zealand.
• 0:34
  Sinead Donovan: She is working in London, she is married to an Irishman, and she is representing Italy with the Italian um, I will let her give the official name of it, but essentially selling um Italy to the global FDI community.
• 0:52
  Sinead Donovan: Um Aster, that is some global um kind of jigsaw.
• 0:57
  Sinead Donovan: Talk to us a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are today.
• 1:01
  Aster Thackery: Okay, fine.
• 1:02
  Aster Thackery: So funnily, when I in the work that I'm doing at the moment with the Italian government, usually the first thing I say to anyone I meet is, no, I'm not Italian, don't worry, but all my colleagues are Italian, so we'll get to that in a minute because I am the only one that's a foreigner in the office.
• 1:17
  Aster Thackery: But I was uh born and grew up in New Zealand, in a small city in New Zealand.
• 1:22
  Aster Thackery: I'm a fourth generation New Zealander, and my mum, though, is Singaporean Chinese, and so I'm clearly mixed.
• 1:29
  Aster Thackery: I lived in New Zealand my whole life, uh but 13 years ago, decided to move to London because I work in international business and that's that's my interest.
• 1:38
  Aster Thackery: And clearly in New Zealand, when you have a population of five million and you're on the other side of the world, it's a lot more difficult to do that.
• 1:45
  Aster Thackery: Whereas here in London, there's a lot more opportunities, so that's that's what brought me over.
• 1:49
  Aster Thackery: Uh, yes, I am married to an Irish man, so I guess uh we now have a house and two children, so I guess that means that I'm probably here for the the longer term.
• 1:58
  Aster Thackery: Um, I remember when I first moved here and I bought a dining table, and my dad said, Oh, are you settling now down in the UK?
• 2:04
  Aster Thackery: And I was like, Dad, not yet, but now for sure.
• 2:07
  Aster Thackery: Um, but something to mention though, that is of course very important as well, is that I am the current chair of the UK Regional Council of Chartered Accountants, Australia, New Zealand, so CANS is the abbreviation.
• 2:19
  Aster Thackery: So that's been a really great opportunity for me to get more involved with uh Chartered Accountants Worldwide and other membership bodies.
• 2:27
  Aster Thackery: And just on the Italian front, so yes, as I said, or as you mentioned, I'm working with the Italian government and the that is particularly the Italian Trade Agency, but we are linked to the Italian embassy, but we're very close with them.
• 2:40
  Aster Thackery: Uh but yeah, essentially my role is to talk to investors and international businesses about doing business in Italy, investing in Italy and helping them to do that.
• 2:52
  Sinead Donovan: Wow, that's absolutely fascinating.
• 2:53
  Sinead Donovan: Um, and I'm loving the linkage between the dining room table becoming the uh the kind of the the the sign that you are settling down.
• 3:01
  Sinead Donovan: So I love it.
• 3:02
  Sinead Donovan: I love it.
• 3:03
  Sinead Donovan: So, okay, so a chartered accountant um or a member of Cannes, and you moved up to London, as you said, to kind of pursue your your your international business.
• 3:12
  Sinead Donovan: Um tell me a little bit about how you you came into your current role because it it it it sounds like one of those things that being a chartered accountant opened doors uh into something that is not necessarily what people typically think uh that a chart accountant might be doing.
• 3:28
  Aster Thackery: Yeah, I think so I studied law and I studied accounting, and interestingly, I didn't I didn't ever have a dream to study accounting.
• 3:36
  Aster Thackery: However, I found when I was at uni that I was quite good at it.
• 3:39
  Aster Thackery: So I was getting really good grades.
• 3:41
  Aster Thackery: And then when I came to London, I realized that nobody here really gives, uh they don't care about your law degree, particularly, because you're from from New Zealand, but the accounting qualification, my chartered accountancy, that was the one that was opening the doors, that was getting me the interviews.
• 3:56
  Aster Thackery: Uh, and from then, because it's a common for New Zealanders to come over on a flexible sort of two-year working visa still, if you're young.
• 4:06
  Aster Thackery: So I was over on that.
• 4:07
  Aster Thackery: And even at that point, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do because I've never chased job titles or kind of linear career progression, but I did know what I didn't want to do in terms of like some of the recruiters were just sending me jobs that were basically doing accounts for law firms, so I knew that wasn't what I wanted to do.
• 4:25
  Aster Thackery: Anyway, so I was looking out for things, and then and then um I did work briefly uh in social housing, doing some disputes resolution, which was eye-opening, because many of my friends who had come over to work for some of the big four, they were like, Why on earth are you doing like London social housing?
• 4:41
  Aster Thackery: Whereas I thought it was fascinating.
• 4:42
  Aster Thackery: I saw a different side of London, and after doing that for about a year or so, I thought, okay, right, I need to get my career back to where I want it to be, which is the international business.
• 4:51
  Aster Thackery: And I got, I say I got lucky.
• 4:53
  Aster Thackery: I met someone who's actually an Australian, and he was doing work with um the British government at the time, and I always joke and I say I got a fantastic contract.
• 5:03
  Aster Thackery: It was just after uh the UK was coming out of austerity and before Brexit and before COVID.
• 5:10
  Aster Thackery: So George Osborne and David Cameron, they were throwing money at trade and investment, and I um landed this position as the lead finance specialist for the uh what was at the time UK Trade and Investment, but is now the British Department for International Trade or Business and Trade.
• 5:28
  Aster Thackery: And they were sending me all around the world to speak to international businesses about the business landscape in the UK and why it's attractive and how to access finance here, what sort of tax incentives there are and things like that.
• 5:42
  Aster Thackery: So I did that and I really, really, really loved it.
• 5:44
  Aster Thackery: And now I know that that uh actually is the world of FDI or foreign direct investment in government speak.
• 5:52
  Aster Thackery: But essentially there's two ways of looking at it right.
• 5:54
  Aster Thackery: So you're either you're either government and so you are trying to attract the best businesses, the best talent, the best investment into your location for economic development and growth, or you're a business and you're looking at how you want to how you want to raise revenue and where you're going to grow and how you're gonna do that internationally.
• 6:11
  Aster Thackery: So I've worked on both sides, both for the government and with private businesses.
• 6:15
  Aster Thackery: But yeah, you're right.
• 6:16
  Aster Thackery: So I don't have a traditional accounting role.
• 6:19
  Aster Thackery: And um, I mean, in my career I've done a little bit of management accounting and things like that, but I I always realize that I'm not I'm not someone that can sort of do the same thing every month.
• 6:30
  Aster Thackery: Uh I'm uh I shouldn't really tell people, but I came, did one of those Myers-Briggs things and it came back because I got a very low score for complete a finisher.
• 6:37
  Aster Thackery: So I realized at that point that perhaps uh traditional management accounting would not be for me.
• 6:42
  Aster Thackery: So this kind of role where I am um at a much higher level and talking about the finance to people and understanding what they're doing in their bigger picture, that's that's where I've landed.
• 6:54
  Sinead Donovan: That's brilliant.
• 6:55
  Sinead Donovan: And and and look, I mean, it it does absolutely talk to the whole ability of the accountancy qualification to open doors and to to be, as you said, it was very it was fascinating what you said was that the people were able to resonate more with your qual accountancy qualification um up in London rather than than the law.
• 7:12
  Sinead Donovan: Um so I I can't but ask the question about um uh the importance or the recognition of cultural diversity.
• 7:21
  Sinead Donovan: So you know, you mentioned your mum is from Singapore you grew up in New Zealand, you've obviously um you know you're doing business in working in London, you're doing business with the Italian with first the UK government and now the Italian government.
• 7:35
  Sinead Donovan: Is different cultures important to you?
• 7:38
  Sinead Donovan: Do they fascinate you?
• 7:40
  Sinead Donovan: Do they have this all has it always been something that that really has kind of I don't know attracted you to to work or to life?
• 7:48
  Aster Thackery: I think so, as I said, I grew up in a smaller city in New Zealand and there's always and I was in and I'm mixed, right?
• 7:53
  Aster Thackery: And actually, uh when I was growing up, there weren't so many mixed children, whereas now there are, I mean, my own children are mixed.
• 8:02
  Aster Thackery: And I definitely had a bit of an identity.
• 8:04
  Aster Thackery: When I was a teenager, I definitely had a lot of questions about identity and whether because in New Zealand, particularly, people would say, Oh, you're not, you know, go home to China, you know, not that everybody is racist, but you'd get that right.
• 8:14
  Aster Thackery: So occasionally, so you'd have these questions of well, I grew up here, where am I from?
• 8:18
  Aster Thackery: Who am I?
• 8:19
  Aster Thackery: Uh and but as an adult that's now working in an international city like London, what I've realized is I actually now have an advantage in terms of cultural awareness, understanding, and being able to see things from different perspectives.
• 8:34
  Aster Thackery: And I also do uh quite often go out of my way to try and learn more.
• 8:38
  Aster Thackery: So, for example, being from New Zealand, we have, of course, uh the Maori community, the Pacifica community, and as one of my things that I've been saying as chair of Chartered Accountants Australia-New Zealand this year is that we need to be more aware of our Maori and Pacifica um membership because at the moment we're not really catering to them.
• 8:58
  Aster Thackery: So I think, well, as far as I can tell, so that's why I just think having this perhaps understanding of both sides, um, or all sides or different sides, means that you can start to ask those questions.
• 9:10
  Aster Thackery: And in a work context, cultural things come up all the time.
• 9:14
  Aster Thackery: Like I think I'm generally okay at um uh at reading the room or understanding cultural nuances.
• 9:23
  Aster Thackery: I will tell you definitely not.
• 9:25
  Aster Thackery: You you only are as good as what you've practiced or what you've seen, right?
• 9:27
  Aster Thackery: And when I started working with the Italian government, I realized how hierarchical the Italians are compared to New Zealanders.
• 9:35
  Aster Thackery: You know, we're so an Irish, right?
• 9:37
  Aster Thackery: We're so um, I guess, more direct.
• 9:40
  Aster Thackery: I would I would happily speak to a CEO or the or the boss or the whoever.
• 9:44
  Aster Thackery: I just walk in and talk to them.
• 9:45
  Aster Thackery: But in Italy, there's a lot more nuance, there's a lot more reading between the lines, there's a lot more uh respect to people who are of a senior position to you.
• 9:53
  Aster Thackery: So I had to get used to that.
• 9:54
  Aster Thackery: But I mean, you learn, and I learnt, and I think now I'm doing fairly well.
• 9:59
  Aster Thackery: Uh I seem to be getting on really well uh with my colleagues.
• 10:02
  Aster Thackery: I've been there for two and a half years now with the Italian Trade Agency.
• 10:05
  Aster Thackery: Yeah.
• 10:05
  Sinead Donovan: Yeah.
• 10:06
  Sinead Donovan: I I think you're I think you're under you're underselling yourself.
• 10:08
  Sinead Donovan: You certainly are doing very well.
• 10:10
  Sinead Donovan: And and I know from talking to you before that you you know you've put a lot of work into that.
• 10:14
  Sinead Donovan: I mean, you mentioned to me the last time I chatted to you about a book you read, the The Culture Map.
• 10:19
  Sinead Donovan: And I actually read it since you mentioned it.
• 10:22
  Sinead Donovan: It is amazing, but it really speaks to that I don't know, the ability to recognize different cultures and respect them and then interact in the best way uh for everybody.
• 10:34
  Aster Thackery: Yes, I definitely recommend that book if you are working internationally, or or at least something similar to it.
• 10:40
  Aster Thackery: It is called The Culture Map, and it's a very easy read, and it does talk about how, first of all, you should recognize that there are other cultures other than your own, because if you don't, you'll only ever view the world through your own culture.
• 10:52
  Aster Thackery: And then, secondly, it goes through uh lots of different ways that you can compare cultures.
• 10:56
  Aster Thackery: I mean, I I talk to people about this book all the time because I think it's fascinating.
• 11:00
  Aster Thackery: Um, but yeah, the reason that I got that book is because I had in the early days of working with the Italian uh embassy and the Italian government, I had a few small hiccups internally, and I thought, okay, I'm clearly getting something wrong here, so let's go and read a book and figure out uh what to do.
• 11:17
  Sinead Donovan: Okay, brilliant.
• 11:18
  Sinead Donovan: And that it's it it's it's very funny.
• 11:19
  Sinead Donovan: And I'm sorry, I think it is, I I think we're all probably thinking of of other instances where we've maybe misinterpreted um what people say.
• 11:27
  Sinead Donovan: The Irish are quite sarcastic, and and I remember one of the things, and sorry, I'm gonna just go on a little bit of tangent, but a lot of Filipinos would work for us um in certainly in the firm.
• 11:37
  Sinead Donovan: And um I remember one manager, senior manager, said to a newly uh uh a new member of our team who was Filipino, okay, thanks a million, I'll see you later.
• 11:46
  Sinead Donovan: And and that was at about seven o'clock in the evening.
• 11:49
  Sinead Donovan: And see you later in Ireland is kind of a yeah, bye.
• 11:52
  Sinead Donovan: That poor trainee sat there until about eleven o'clock that night because they thought that the manager was coming back because a C Late.
• 11:59
  Sinead Donovan: So um it's really important to to actually uh understand the difference in culture.
• 12:04
  Sinead Donovan: Um and to to that point and your awareness of uh culture of the global community, you also are very aware of the I guess more local community and the importance of that, Astor.
• 12:18
  Sinead Donovan: Isn't that right?
• 12:18
  Sinead Donovan: Talk to me a little bit about the amazing um initiative you set up in your local community.
• 12:27
  Aster Thackery: Yeah, so it's funny, community, because we spoke about community uh when we chatted the other day, right?
• 12:32
  Aster Thackery: And um I guess when I reflect on what I've been up to over the last few years, community is a huge theme.
• 12:40
  Aster Thackery: And I would say that I wear three hats, so I've well, three hats plus also I'm a mum, but so three hats being the work that I'm doing with the Italian government at the moment, so I'm I'm working to attract investment into Italy, and that that in itself is a bit is a bit community-based because essentially you're trying to connect the Italian business community in London with the investment community and the business community, right?
• 13:04
  Aster Thackery: So, how do you build those relationships?
• 13:06
  Aster Thackery: The second community is of course the Chartered Accountants, Australia, New Zealand.
• 13:10
  Aster Thackery: Uh, we have 4,200 members in the UK.
• 13:13
  Aster Thackery: So, as chair, I'm not I'm a volunteer, but we luckily have a brilliant paid team that do all the actual work.
• 13:19
  Aster Thackery: But as chair, I often am thinking how do we do more to bring our community together?
• 13:24
  Aster Thackery: So, um, like what kind of events can we do?
• 13:27
  Aster Thackery: Things like that.
• 13:28
  Aster Thackery: And then the third, which is what you are referring to, is I live in Greenwich in London, and when I moved here five years ago, yeah, five years ago during COVID, um I didn't know anybody, and I was pregnant with my second baby, and I just did what I think many pregnant women or or or like mothers do, which is to try to connect with other pregnant women and mothers.
• 13:53
  Aster Thackery: So I had this coffee meetup that I started, pretty, pretty normal.
• 13:59
  Aster Thackery: But the thing is that this coffee meetup just grew, it just didn't stop growing.
• 14:03
  Aster Thackery: So it's just grown and grown and grown and grown and grown.
• 14:06
  Aster Thackery: And it got to the point where we now have about 2,000 active parents in our local community who are part of this group.
• 14:15
  Aster Thackery: So we're not affiliated to a to you know to a religion or a school or any kind of um any group.
• 14:20
  Aster Thackery: We are just a community of parents, and it got to the point where COVID had lifted, and I so I thought, well, we should we should do something.
• 14:28
  Aster Thackery: Maybe I should organize a party or an event.
• 14:30
  Aster Thackery: So in 2024, I thought I'll organise a village fair because it felt to me like where I'd grown up in New Zealand, there were often community events, and in London, yes, there are community events, but they're huge, right?
• 14:43
  Aster Thackery: So I thought, well, Greenwich is essentially a village.
• 14:45
  Aster Thackery: I mean, we are we're in zone two, we're central, but we're essentially a village.
• 14:49
  Aster Thackery: So let's let's put on a village fair and invite all the families and the children.
• 14:52
  Aster Thackery: So we had this big event and it was free, and people came and everything was like just for families, little little children, and everybody said, Oh, that was great, you should do it again.
• 15:03
  Aster Thackery: And it's the same, same this year.
• 15:04
  Aster Thackery: Oh, it was great, you should do it again.
• 15:06
  Aster Thackery: So it's morphed now.
• 15:07
  Aster Thackery: This this community is morphed.
• 15:09
  Aster Thackery: But just to tell you um a really, I guess, most recent story is that yesterday, yesterday was International Women's Day.
• 15:16
  Aster Thackery: Yes, and yeah, and so I thought, well, actually, yes, we'll do a fair again, sure, and we can do other events too.
• 15:22
  Aster Thackery: But for the first time, I decided to organize uh a family morning tea for International Women's Day.
• 15:28
  Aster Thackery: So a lot of the we had we sold out actually, we didn't, and I say sold out as in we only had capacity in the venue for a certain number, and we had too many.
• 15:37
  Aster Thackery: So we had about 80 parents and children come yesterday morning, and I did some call-outs to some of the amazing women that run businesses in our community, and they they donated like spot prizes, and we had a children's entertainer come and she did a bit of you know, women girls rule the world, and it was just this really fun community event.
• 15:56
  Aster Thackery: But but yeah, essentially, I mean, you could we could talk for hours about how motherhood and um parenthood and the family unit and the cost of childcare.
• 16:06
  Aster Thackery: I mean, that's a whole wormhole, right?
• 16:08
  Aster Thackery: But drilling it right down to what is it that I guess I felt like what is the very least that I can do in my position, and that is just connect people.
• 16:17
  Aster Thackery: So a lot of the people that come to all of the meetups and events and things that we organize or I organize, they're just parents that are a bit similar to us.
• 16:27
  Aster Thackery: Um, they probably don't have family here in London, and they just want to connect with other parents and and and and bring their child to something that they know it's gonna be fine.
• 16:36
  Aster Thackery: And yeah, so that community is now um, I actually incorporated it, which sounds really uh formal, but the reason I did that is because I wanted it to be its own thing and not linked to me in my bank account, right?
• 16:47
  Aster Thackery: So it's incorporated as a social enterprise, a nonprofit social enterprise.
• 16:52
  Aster Thackery: And once I did that, I then realized that we've now got the foundation in place which enables us to empower others in the community to do things as well.
• 17:01
  Aster Thackery: So one of the mums, she's now been running for a year, Mums in Business Networking, free networking, free uh workshops for women in the community.
• 17:10
  Aster Thackery: I've got another one who said that she'd like to get some events experience.
• 17:14
  Aster Thackery: So I've been supporting her behind the scenes and she could run events.
• 17:17
  Aster Thackery: And then I've got another one who she uh wanted to run a charity event, but she is just you know, she can organize it and hire a hall, but but we're helping, I'm helping her out with all the ticketing and all of that sort of base infrastructure.
• 17:30
  Aster Thackery: So yeah, it's been a really fascinating project.
• 17:33
  Aster Thackery: And people have said, because I never set out to create a group or a community or whatever, but people have always said, Oh, where are you gonna take it next?
• 17:41
  Aster Thackery: What are you gonna do next?
• 17:42
  Aster Thackery: And I'm like, well, actually, we're community led.
• 17:45
  Aster Thackery: So what do you guys want and what are you guys prepared to help with?
• 17:49
  Aster Thackery: Because something that, sorry, I'm going on, stop me from going tangent.
• 17:52
  Aster Thackery: Oh, it's brilliant, it's great.
• 17:54
  Aster Thackery: I think it's so important.
• 17:55
  Aster Thackery: Like this has been floating around on socials recently, but people are saying, oh, we don't have a village anymore, you know, I don't have a village, especially in the the world of parenting.
• 18:05
  Aster Thackery: Oh, we don't have a village, but then also what's been going around, which I fully when I read this the first time, it's resonated with me so hard.
• 18:13
  Aster Thackery: Is people say that they want to have a village, but they don't want to be a villager, right?
• 18:18
  Aster Thackery: They don't people don't want to put in the effort to be a villager, you know, because being being part of a village means that you also need to contribute and take part.
• 18:25
  Aster Thackery: So I am pushing back to people a lot now to say, yeah, like we can do all that stuff.
• 18:32
  Aster Thackery: Let's let's do it together and see and see what comes out.
• 18:36
  Sinead Donovan: Oh, it's amazing, Astra, and well done to you.
• 18:39
  Sinead Donovan: And I mean, I think what I have taken from that is that um a the bravery, but uh just kind of not the bravery, but the determination to just start something and and see where it goes.
• 18:51
  Sinead Donovan: And I mean, you started something which didn't necessarily have an end vision, but it's just grown, and you really have let it grow.
• 18:58
  Sinead Donovan: Um, I think it also demonstrates the importance of human interaction and and and the building of networks and the building of human um relationships, which I think in in this day and age of AI and technology and all that, um, you know, I don't think can be underestimated.
• 19:13
  Sinead Donovan: So well done to you.
• 19:14
  Sinead Donovan: It's phenomenal.
• 19:15
  Sinead Donovan: Um, and uh and and and there's a lot that people can learn from that.
• 19:19
  Sinead Donovan: And in the same vibe or or theme of community, I mean you mentioned a couple of times that you're chair of the the CANS, is it the UK members, the the members based in the UK, you're chair of that grouping?
• 19:32
  Aster Thackery: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:33
  Aster Thackery: So chattered accountants Australia New Zealand.
• 19:35
  Aster Thackery: So we are uh we combined a few years ago, Australia and New Zealand, so we're we're more powerful together.
• 19:40
  Aster Thackery: Yeah, we've got uh 140,000 members around the world and 4,200 in the UK.
• 19:48
  Aster Thackery: That's huge.
• 19:49
  Aster Thackery: So I'm yeah, so I'm chair of the UK uh regional council this year.
• 19:54
  Aster Thackery: And actually, this the the Chart Accountants Australia New Zealand, our CEO, uh Ainsley Van Onslan, she's actually the chair of Chart Accountants Worldwide at the moment.
• 20:03
  Aster Thackery: So yes, yeah, no, and we're proud of that.
• 20:06
  Sinead Donovan: Yeah, no, it's great.
• 20:07
  Sinead Donovan: And I mean I think I think I think Cans are are really leading the charge in in kind of how to really ensure that the profession is a truly global um profession and and how you look after members throughout the globe.
• 20:18
  Sinead Donovan: So so so well done to you.
• 20:20
  Sinead Donovan: Um how do you find the time, Master, to do all you do?
• 20:24
  Sinead Donovan: Because I'm assuming there's an awful lot of travel involved in the work you do as well, is there?
• 20:28
  Aster Thackery: Yeah, everybody asks me when they find that I work for the Italian embassy or the government, they're like, oh, you must go to Italy a lot.
• 20:35
  Aster Thackery: And I say, unfortunately not, because my job is to speak to international companies.
• 20:40
  Aster Thackery: So I've been more times to Leeds and like other places like that than Italy, but once a year.
• 20:48
  Aster Thackery: But uh in terms of the time, I think that I am I'm I I'm not a perfectionist.
• 20:54
  Aster Thackery: I used to be, but not anymore.
• 20:57
  Aster Thackery: I'm pretty good at just knowing like what when done is good enough.
• 21:01
  Aster Thackery: And I see this around me all the time, particularly with women, especially with the the local women uh who are starting up businesses here.
• 21:08
  Aster Thackery: They'll be so focused on making sure their Instagram looks beautiful or that their logo looks beautiful.
• 21:12
  Aster Thackery: Whereas I'm like, what's the end goal and how do we get there?
• 21:15
  Aster Thackery: And what's the minimum that I need to do to get to that point?
• 21:18
  Aster Thackery: Um, because then I don't know, that's otherwise I would have there's no way I'd be able to do what I do.
• 21:26
  Aster Thackery: And also I will just put a shout out to my husband because I also think that when you have children, having a co-parent, a lot of people will say, Oh, I don't know how you do it all, I couldn't do that.
• 21:35
  Aster Thackery: And I'm like, Well, I do have a co-parent.
• 21:38
  Aster Thackery: He's there and he's doing the work and he's contributing.
• 21:41
  Aster Thackery: And I think I'm I would wish that everybody had this with their partners, but you know, it's not always the way.
• 21:48
  Aster Thackery: So I'm very grateful for that.
• 21:50
  Sinead Donovan: Well, isn't it, and that's lovely, but isn't it just the power of teamwork really and and and and uh you know the acknowledgement and understanding that we are better better together and And you get much more done as as a part of a team.
• 22:02
  Sinead Donovan: I love that bit about kind of leaving the perfectionist thing at the table and maybe getting something 80% done rather than 100% but done late or not done at all.
• 22:12
  Sinead Donovan: So uh yeah, and that's a really that's a really, really good takeaway.
• 22:15
  Sinead Donovan: Um so so Astro, what's what what what's next in your in your journey?
• 22:20
  Sinead Donovan: I mean, what do you hope to to do, or do you tend to look forward, or do you tend to react to uh things as they happen, or or or is there is there a plan?
• 22:32
  Sinead Donovan: You don't necessarily need to share the plan, but but is there a plan?
• 22:37
  Aster Thackery: Uh I always I always think of um, you know, like I'm sure as my age, but I always think of Monica from Friends and how she always had everything planned out.
• 22:44
  Aster Thackery: So I'm not like that.
• 22:46
  Aster Thackery: But I I would say that I went through a lot of my 20s being very much like live in the moment and just experience everything in the moment and and just just go for it, which was great.
• 22:57
  Aster Thackery: It's harder to do that now when you are in a family unit, right?
• 23:01
  Aster Thackery: You can't just go with the moment.
• 23:02
  Aster Thackery: You actually need to think about what it is, not just what you want, but what your partner wants, what your children are doing, and and what's going to work out best for all of you.
• 23:11
  Aster Thackery: And I will be honest, I'm finding that a massive shift because I was such a go with the moment independent person.
• 23:18
  Aster Thackery: I do plan though, I do, or I shouldn't say plan, I self-reflect a lot.
• 23:24
  Aster Thackery: And actually, this is something that sometimes when people ask, I think, what's your what is your advice, or like what is your tips?
• 23:33
  Aster Thackery: I don't know if this is a tip, but this is something that's worked for me really well.
• 23:37
  Aster Thackery: Like I have always journaled, I journaled since I was nine years old every day, not much, just a few thoughts.
• 23:43
  Aster Thackery: And then if I was ever going through anything more complicated, I would sort of just sit down and get out a pen and just write it all out and get all these thoughts out and and work through things that I was finding difficult to try to figure out what the actual priorities are and then what I can do about those.
• 24:03
  Aster Thackery: And I am a New Year's resolution person, so I do set New Year's resolutions.
• 24:07
  Aster Thackery: Um, and one of two of mine this year, so I'll share those with you, probably two of the most important ones.
• 24:15
  Aster Thackery: No, three, because one of them is to spend quality time with my children, so that's a good one.
• 24:19
  Aster Thackery: But the other two, two of them, one is to continue to take steps that do things that are aligned with my strengths and my values.
• 24:28
  Aster Thackery: So I think I'm doing fairly well, but I'd like to continue on that path.
• 24:34
  Aster Thackery: And the other thing is to to start to look.
• 24:38
  Aster Thackery: I've got all these skills, and I met someone last year, and I she was she was wonderful, and she did one of these psychometric tests on me, and she said, Did you know that you've got all of the attributes of an entrepreneur?
• 24:50
  Aster Thackery: And I was like, Oh, she said, Does that surprise you?
• 24:52
  Aster Thackery: I said, Well, yes and no, like, no when you say it, but yes, because I hadn't really thought about starting up a business or whatever.
• 25:01
  Aster Thackery: Anyway, I think that the third thing is what I want to do is explore some of that.
• 25:06
  Aster Thackery: So, of course, I love the work that I do, the international work.
• 25:10
  Aster Thackery: I I love the community stuff and I love bringing people together.
• 25:13
  Aster Thackery: But equally, it's for me, it's not just doing something for fun, although that is good.
• 25:19
  Aster Thackery: It's also what is the actual impact that you're having.
• 25:22
  Aster Thackery: So I'm I'm starting to look for more impactful um or ways that I can be of more impact, positive impact to the world, I think.
• 25:29
  Sinead Donovan: That's a bit cheesy, but that's that's the direction of travel.
• 25:32
  Sinead Donovan: That's great, that's great.
• 25:34
  Sinead Donovan: And gosh, I wouldn't have been at all surprised to hear that you were, you know, had the the skill set of an entrepreneur.
• 25:40
  Sinead Donovan: Should look what you've done with the Greenwich Um Parent Group.
• 25:43
  Sinead Donovan: It's it's it's phenomenal.
• 25:45
  Sinead Donovan: So so they're they're not small goals, Astor.
• 25:48
  Sinead Donovan: They're not small goals.
• 25:49
  Sinead Donovan: Um but but but but it sounds like you know, you you you you when you set your mind to something, you you you you likely will get there.
• 25:57
  Sinead Donovan: And look, you know, I wish you all the best in that.
• 25:59
  Sinead Donovan: Obviously, being a charge accountant is something you're proud of.
• 26:02
  Sinead Donovan: Do you think the skill set that you've learned along the way has helped with all of these, I guess, ability to multitask?
• 26:11
  Aster Thackery: Yeah, I think do you know what I was thinking about confidence, and I think having the CA as part of my skill set and as part of my professional identity has given me a lot of confidence throughout my career.
• 26:28
  Aster Thackery: So, for example, in those early days when I was working with the British government, and as I said, I would be, I'd be walking into some conference rooms with some pretty senior business leaders, and and and a lot of people, particularly women, would say, Oh, do you have um imposter syndrome or whatever?
• 26:46
  Aster Thackery: And I'd say, Well, no, because first of all, uh the world was not built for for me.
• 26:54
  Aster Thackery: So if I feel imposter syndrome, that's that's it's normal.
• 26:57
  Aster Thackery: But second of all, I think if I'm there, I'm there for a reason, right?
• 27:00
  Aster Thackery: And I think having and did this is typical, but I would get I'd walk in and people say, Oh, are you the are you the like are you here to write the notes or are you the the HR person or the marketing person?
• 27:12
  Aster Thackery: And I'd be like, No, I'm the finance specialist and I'm a CA, you know, I've got this.
• 27:18
  Aster Thackery: So that yeah, it definitely helps with the confidence and um got me to where I am.
• 27:24
  Sinead Donovan: Isn't that brilliant?
• 27:25
  Sinead Donovan: Well done.
• 27:25
  Sinead Donovan: And and and and keep smashing it because you have a you know have a lovely positive and can do attitude, which I think is just so so critically important um in in the current the the current world.
• 27:36
  Sinead Donovan: Um Astor, one, you've given so many good takeaways there and good take, good, good, good, good advice, but if you were talking to a young accountant student in New Zealand, picture yourself back there, what would you say to that um accountancy student at this moment in time?
• 27:58
  Aster Thackery: Well, so I think I I touched on it before, I think self-reflection is is probably where I where I would start because actually this I think I can't really give say tips to a to a person or whatever because it really starts with them and what they who self-reflection on who you are and what your values are and where you see yourself going.
• 28:21
  Aster Thackery: And I don't think you necessarily need to know exactly where you are wanting to end up, but at least having um a direction of travel gets you gets you going right.
• 28:30
  Aster Thackery: But then I think the second thing is that I've always found really useful and interesting is I always encourage people to take or learn things that aren't necessarily directly applicable to what they think they're doing.
• 28:43
  Aster Thackery: So say if you are studying your CA, your accounting, that's great.
• 28:46
  Aster Thackery: Learn all the business and finance um uh skills that you need.
• 28:50
  Aster Thackery: But for example, me every year I make sure I do a course that's completely unrelated to finance and business.
• 28:58
  Aster Thackery: And when I say, and the reason I do this is because one, it it helps my brain think in a different way.
• 29:04
  Aster Thackery: And two, I think you never know when those skills are going to be applicable uh laterally.
• 29:09
  Aster Thackery: And just to say that you you could do something as small as a course, like for example, one year I decided just to do a pottery course, I don't know, and then another year, another year I did um actually last year, I did uh the advisory board centers certified advisory board chair course, which which which um taught me how a company should best use advisory boards and things like that.
• 29:37
  Aster Thackery: But so you might think, well, that's not directly applicable to say my accounting, it's not it's advisory boards, I don't know.
• 29:42
  Aster Thackery: But you know what I mean?
• 29:43
  Aster Thackery: Like all of these things cross over and they all link.
• 29:45
  Aster Thackery: So I guess what I'm saying is, yes, do your do your finance because you think that's your career path, but also don't drop off those other interests or those other things that you think, you know, maybe they're not so important anymore, because they're all part of who you are and all the skills that you learn, uh, and all of the um the ways that your brain learns to think, they are all building on top of each other, right?
• 30:10
  Aster Thackery: They're not pushing, they're not pushing one to society, it's not one or the other, it's all compounding to make you better and you who you actually are.
• 30:19
  Sinead Donovan: That is uh brilliant advice.
• 30:21
  Sinead Donovan: Really, really uh great advice.
• 30:23
  Sinead Donovan: And I think what you're kind of saying is your technical maybe know-how and skill set will get you so far, but after that it's it's it's it's maybe who you are, who you know, and and what you represent.
• 30:32
  Sinead Donovan: So yeah, they they all matrix up into a wider picture.
• 30:38
  Aster Thackery: Yeah, I mean, I just want to probably just share one example that I for that, which I always think about.
• 30:43
  Aster Thackery: When I was in um when I was doing my CA back in New Zealand, one of my friends who was doing it with me, we were sort of saying, Oh, this is really hard, all these finance exams.
• 30:52
  Aster Thackery: But her big passion was dancing.
• 30:54
  Aster Thackery: And she, and people said, Oh, you're gonna drop the dancing.
• 30:57
  Aster Thackery: And she's like, No, I'm gonna keep the dancing, and people were a bit like, why?
• 31:01
  Aster Thackery: What's the point?
• 31:01
  Aster Thackery: You're gonna be a CA, you're gonna go and work for a big four, which she did for a number of years.
• 31:05
  Aster Thackery: Uh, but the last time I uh caught up with her, she was running her own dance business.
• 31:10
  Aster Thackery: So, of course, she then had the skills to to go and do what she wanted to do.
• 31:14
  Aster Thackery: And I just thought that to me is a really great example of yeah, you don't just drop off what your other interests are, because eventually they can they can come together.
• 31:23
  Sinead Donovan: No.
• 31:23
  Sinead Donovan: Oh my goodness, what a lovely way to finish up.
• 31:26
  Sinead Donovan: That is just amazing advice.
• 31:27
  Sinead Donovan: And Astra, thank you so much for sharing your time, your honesty, your insights with us.
• 31:32
  Sinead Donovan: And um, look, I want to wish you all the best in the future.
• 31:35
  Sinead Donovan: I I have no doubt that whatever you do, um, whatever you turn your hand to will be a success.
• 31:40
  Sinead Donovan: So thank you so much for um for chatting to us today.
• 31:43
  Sinead Donovan: Really appreciate it.
• 31:44
  Aster Thackery: Oh, thank you for having me.
• 31:46
  Sinead Donovan: Not at all.
• 31:47
  Sinead Donovan: And to the listeners, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 31:51
  Sinead Donovan: Um we will have uh uh we're coming to towards the end of the series, can you believe, of Difference Makers Discuss.
• 31:58
  Sinead Donovan: But I look forward to seeing you at the next outing, and until then, stay well.
• 32:04
  Sinead Donovan: Goodbye.