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Scouting the Fins-2-12-26 · 3 Yards Per Carry - Miami Dolphins

• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's up everybody, and welcome to another episode of Scouting with Fins, right here on the three arch per carry pod cast, and we're also on fire recent sports network.
• 0:40
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• 1:11
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• 1:15
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• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Joining me on today's episode is Coach and Eric.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Gentlemen, how are we doing?
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, doing well.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good to be back all of you guys.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I miss the opportunity to talk defensive lineman with you guys earlier in the week, but we are here today to talk linebackers.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's important to kind of put out there early in the show that one of the players that we're not going to talk about today.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: is Arvelle Reese and a lot of people.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's been some discussion as whether or not he's an off-ball line-backer or an edge.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: We did talk about him with the edge group, and just to kind of reiterate, I think that all three of us were very high on him and felt that whether he is an edge or an off-ball line-backer, he's a great player no matter where you put him, but just want to put it out there that all the players were going to talk about tonight.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not excluding Arvelle Reese, we've already talked about him previously.
• 2:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think it.
• 2:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I very much.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, I very much appreciate the disclaimer at the top.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Eric, speak for the both of us.
• 2:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, it's just going to say I appreciate the disclaimer at the top there because it's.
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: just I'm very glad you're preempting it now because they're going to be people otherwise that would be ripping us to shreds on excluding our overseas.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm excited to be here talk some linebackers and again a position group that I feel really good about in this class overall.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know we'll have some different opinions here and there on it but you know that's what
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for the Arvel Ries dilemma, I don't necessarily see him as, you know, position fitting for a linebacker.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nor do I see him as a position fitting as an edge rusher.
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's more like, you know, an all around guy where you line him up anywhere.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it will be a star.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think with, you know, our Belarus, we talked about him in the Azure Russia class.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's best suited in half these defense to just get after the quarterback, you know, and not set not necessarily so much in coverage, which, you know, we'll talk about a lot of this lineback report, which, you know,
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: They can hang what some of these guys in coverage, they can rush the quarterback as well and they can defend up against the run.
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the big thing about linebackers and Jeff Hathleys, deepfence is that, these are your pressure guys.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, they don't, they're not gonna be asked to blitz a lot, but what they are gonna be asked for when they blitz is to get home.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: they got to win on those time pressures, they have to set the edges in those simulated blocks, they have to fill up the gaps when there's twists and stuns going on on the defensive line.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be the point men and they have to survive in space whenever the coverage dictates them.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now look guys, Miami already has a hammer in Jordan Brooks, right?
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: This draft, whether or not Miami does draft a lineback right, I think they should, is about finding that multiplier that can work alongside and complement Jordan Brooks.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that throughout the entire season, Tyrell Dodson was kind of a
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say a victim, he was a target of a lot of criticism of this defense and a lot of who wanted to see Willie Gay play more than him because Tyrell Dodson was not playing up to the standard that Jordan Brooks had kind of set for that position, so I do think that it is important in this draft to be able to find that compliment to Jordan Brooks.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think we'll help unlock him as well to find a nice versatile piece to pair with him and
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the lineback of position just in general, you know, I think there was some overall laughing behind Jordan Brooks this season.
• 5:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: He had a phenomenal year to himself, but,
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: the position otherwise, you know, kind of felt like a rotating door where, you know, Tyrell Dodds and okay, well, he's probably not the guy, you know, he's likely to not be on the team next year if I had to just guess right now.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think finding a piece, you know, like Coach mentioned, that's versatile in this defensive scheme that can play in space, but also, you know, fit the run well and blitz and navigate traffic in the box is going to be a really big thing for this defense because you look at the packers and you look at their linebacker core, it's definitely a really strong position group that they've had there.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the Dolphins really only have Jordan Brooks, Tyrell Dots, and who could be a potential candidate come this offseason.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jackson Woodward and KCO side, those two word developmental, Willie Gay and KJ Britt are actually free agents come March 11.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So really, I do think Miami should draft a line back of this class.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: and we'll get to talk about them in a little bit, but first we got to, as always, talk about the thresholds and the athletic baseline for these linebackers.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So starting off, they got to be at least six, two and a half, nothing under six one for the most part.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're usually around 238 pounds average to 40.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Around a 33 inch arm length, they can scoot a little bit, 4.540 or time, 1.5, 910 yards, split 6.9 on the three cone, and about a 35 inch vertical.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So more so, you know, these guys have to have a good change of direction.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: They got to be sideline to sideline very much.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're drafting that, then really high in the first.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: or second round, they should have that link to set the edges help out in the run game and more most importantly, survive in coverage that we saw Jordan Brooks do even though he's 6-1.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: That goes back to what General Sullivan talked about from the beginning that, you know, big doesn't get small, right?
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: You need those bigger linebackers because, you know, what you get into those cold weather games, your size is still there.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: When you get into games, I have adverse weather conditions.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Those speedier guys can kind of be limited when it comes to physical games.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: But he also said that, you know, they're not looking to
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sacrifice athleticism by just getting big slow guys.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that when we talk about this this mold that we have here for the linebackers That's the exact point that you're talking about you got to be big and athletic Yeah, I mean like let's be really honest here.
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're looking at things that are like baselines, but if you go to the combine This this baseline is like the top five percent In terms of athleticism if you get a guy that's six three two forty and runs a four five
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: and run the floor by 40, that guy is widely regarded as a freak and to be fair you know that's what bring base kind of really prioritize that the line-backer position when you think about guys like playwalk or you think about guys like Edron Cooper and again as somebody that's kind of
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've wanted one of those guys on the dolphins for a long time.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm excited by, you know, some of those thresholds that we, you know, halfway looks for in a defense, because I think having that versatile piece that can play sideline to sideline and really thrive in space is going to be a boon for the defense.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say and correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think Adrian Cooper is a free agent this year.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll have to double take what I think based upon my research he might be a free agent this year.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: not necessarily 63, sub 240, so there's a little bit of variability in terms of these thresholds, but you know these guys do tend to put on an extra 5, maybe 10 pounds in the off season and one inch or so may not necessarily be the end all be all of everything.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So while we're talking
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just an average, it doesn't necessarily disqualify a player if they're off by 5 to 10 pounds or an inch inch and a half, but like if you're like a 510 linebacker, 220 pounds.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: that may not vote so well for you in the evaluation process, or let's say you're like, six, six, and two hundred and seventy pounds.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you're gonna be asked to play linebacker in this defense for sure.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe like, you know, on those simple pressures, you're out in coverage for like two or three snaps a game, but not so much 20 to 25 snaps.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there is a little bit of variability in this.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So with these linebackers, we're going to talk about there's four archetypes, as you know, in the previous two shows, we've had three archetypes.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, for the linebackers, because of how each player's a little bit difference and the depth of this class, we group them into four different types of archetypes.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have your defensive multiplier, which is going to be, you know, your best to the best.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of this defense.
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your second one is going to be your pressure guy who's a blitzer, a stunt weapon can shoot through the AgAps.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your third guy is more so your run for stabilizer that can win on those early down runs and make sure you're best suited to be in second longs and third and longs and then your fourth archetype, your last one is your developmental
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: role players that have the opportunity to grow into either run first, pressure guy, or maybe work the way up to be a guy who can really work in coverage.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the first one we have and I don't think it comes as a prize is Ohio State Sunny Styles.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that for all three of us, excluding Larville Reese, Sunny Styles at the top of the board for us, if fantastic player, a guy that's comfortable in space, he does have the ability to go up and play on the end of the line of scrimmage, but not something you want to see him doing.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: For an entire game, he's an excellent tackler.
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't run around blocks, like when I look at linebackers, I love the guys that will run through blocks that can engage, stack, shed, and that's exactly what you're getting in the sunny styles.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, another, doesn't have the same versatility as Reese, but still a guy that when you talk about four small suppliers that you can move around to allow guys to do different things, to be flexible when offenses have shifts or motions where you're not putting yourself in a disadvantage.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, sunny styles, an excellent guy to pair with Jordan Brooks, if that ends up being the pick.
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you want to talk about, I mean, just a poster child for an absolute freak of nature athlete.
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: If he does perform all the combine drills, he's going to be one of the guys that kind of goes viral in Indianapolis because
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: This dude, I mean, you can see that he played safety for the first couple of years at Ohio State, definitely.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then he put on 20 something pounds, got to about up to 243, I believe, at 64, really, really aggressive tackler in space, maybe not the best in zone occasionally, but he's a really good man defender when you line him up against tight ends and coverage.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, you want to talk about just violence when you watch a guy play and sideline to sideline ability.
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's sunny styles all day.
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's a guy that I would see is very much in range even at 11 for the dolphins.
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think if he's he's at 11, that's that's a home run pick, although the only person who I would pick over sunny styles at 11, if he is available at 11,
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh... there would actually be two guys uh... one would be rubin bane junier for sure i think we can make a very good argument for that and the other guy would be k-loughdowns from all i'll stay as well i think i can make a very very good argument coach eric two guys agree agree on that yeah i mean i would put
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Arvelle Reese ahead of styles personally as well, but if it's somehow somehow.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: But in terms of off-ball linebackers, sunny styles is the only linebacker in this class.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: It would be worthy of the, you know, the guys we're going to talk about tonight.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: It would be worthy of that number 11 pick.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: The second guy we'll talk about is actually one of Coach's favorites.
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anthony Hill, Jr., he's got a 12.3 pass rush win rate, great it out as almost a 71 in run defense.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: 9.7% havoc, when quarterback's through at him, they had a QBR of less than 87%.
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, he had a mistaqual rate of 11.3% coach.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and one of the knocks that seemed to be on Anthony Hill is that he's not great in coverage.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know where that came from because I don't really see it when I watch him.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's another very athletic linebacker.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he takes on blocks as, you know, not physically the same way that Sunny Styles does.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: But he still, you know, he comes up and he has a knack for slipping blocks.
• 16:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like you see some of these guys that try to avoid blocks and get caught
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not Anthony Hill.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: He does a good job of being able to, you know, not necessarily engage in offensive linemen and, you know, stack and shed a little bit.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And doing it without losing ground, right?
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like when you're a linebacker and you're.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're filling a run lane that's opening up, right?
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some of these guys will try to dip and get around and get washed out.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Anthony Hill, this is a good job of still staying linear, still staying long path with that and closing up that lane.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not, you know, you talked about his tackle and he's not a, you know, he's not a guy that's going to go up there and meet Derek Henry in the hole and drive him backwards, right, but I still think that he is effective, you know, for for me and I'll let Eric talk about to, but for me Anthony Hill would be the number two linebacker on my board, but not not up there at the number 11 that would be a, you know, a trade down or hope that he's available on the second round tight player for me.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, honestly, when you when you re-contextualize a missed tackle stuff, considering how high he goes in a lot of times, it's not as bad as, you know, a lot of other guys that that go in as upright as he tends to.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, the thing with Anthony Hill, I do like him a lot.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think athletically he's, again, another one of these fruit line backers
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, obviously, there's a decent cap I think between sunny styles and the next best guy.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then I think two through maybe five are kind of similar players.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Anthony Hill, the thing that lacks a little bit for me is some of the overall physicality inside.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: As you mentioned, he's more of a guy that slips blocks rather than kind of attacking through them.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Overall, again, a really, really solid player will hold his on in the coverage, even though I listen, a lot of these guys at the college level.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: aren't the greatest defenders in zone all the time because of the fact that listen, it takes a lot of reps to get good at that, especially at the NFL level and when quarterbacks are so manipulative with their eyes, that's something that typically more reps and more experience will get guys better with.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not super concerned with that, but Anthony Hill is a phenomenal player.
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I have him as my linebacker for, but I mean, linebacker too.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think is elevated the neuronal possibility whatsoever with Hill.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I actually have Hill ranked fifth and we'll go into that a little bit more for me actually has really decent zone drops and when you take a look at halfway with his linebackers he doesn't ask them to be 10 yards, you know covering because
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: the safety's are going to be and depending on which safety it is, there's going to be at least one safety within the 10 yard line.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like at most they'll have to be at five yards and carry an extra two or three on the ball should be gone by then.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know that that is what is needed.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And within you know that five to 10 yard range, I think Anthony Hill,
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: can't take care of that.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: The only thing is that with the run fits as well, he'll need that strength up against those bigger offensive linemen specifically in the AFC and namely the AFC east as well.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where it can get washed on, but we've seen Jordan Brooks at six foot
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's able to take care of that Anthony Hill 63 almost 240 pounds.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: He shouldn't have that much of a problem but it's more so about the technical size of things.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing for me is that, will Jeff Hathley call Anthony Huljooner to be more of that pressure guy, more of that blitzer and let Jordan Brooks cover that is something that I just don't know yet because if he asks him to ask Brooks to blitz more rather than Anthony Huljooner,
• 20:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not so sure because even though we've seen Brooks get that pressure, you need a bigger guy to close a bigger faster guy that can overwhelm offensive linemen.
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if the continuity is the same with Jordan Brooks, I see Brooks more so as the blitzer and Anthony Hill Jr. as the guy in zone coverage.
• 21:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: just basing my guess for now.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have Anthony Hill as number five, especially if he's gonna ask to cover a lot in Jeff Haffley's statements.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's fair.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: We talked about it all fair before we got on here that I think that the way that we have these guys ranked is gonna, you know,
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: greatly verify based on what we each value for these linebackers.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what makes these conversations fun.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's not the end all be all over rankings.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And these teams could think very differently.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: They could have, you know, they could have Anthony Hill Jr. as their number one linebacker.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who knows?
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what it looks like.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, the next guy in our list for, you know, this very first archetype of the defensive multiplier, the guys that can do everything.
• 21:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: The next one is Harold Perkins Jr. And there's a little bit concern with Harold Perkins Jr.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't ranked eighth.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: as my in in in in the lineback category 6122 pounds a sub 4 5 40 projected when quarterback's target M 81.2 QBR which is elite in college 10.2% have a great 11.2% pass for a swim rate, but almost a 19% mistaquary.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: You want to take Perkins first there?
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, listen,
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: In theory, I like Harold Perkins as a compliment to Jordan Brooks because of what I think he can do in coverage, but my concern is he feels more, you know, he feels more like a overhang defenders with Armin, I've then rather a true line backer to me, I mean at 61222 he might put on 510 pounds,
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: you always worry about the quicker guys putting on weight and kind of losing some of that speed because I think that that's very much part of what makes Harold Perkins an attractive graph prospect.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: The production is certainly there.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's a tremendous cover guy.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like you mentioned, he's a good blitzer.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: But again, the physicality for a linebacker, he's going to get washed out in the box quite a bit.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to miss a few tackles.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then on top of that, we've talked about it again and again, in the get through this process of the dolphins wanting guys that are available in healthy.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, he does have the major history in his bat or the major injury in his background.
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so again, I, I like the player.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's a bad player by any means.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know if he's really a quote unquote linebacker at the NFL low and the injury kind of worries me.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think you have to have a very specific role for a Harold Perkins when I when I watched him play it in space a lot good athlete.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: If he was a little bit better athlete, I feel like I would probably be talking about him as a possible convert to safety, but I don't think that he's quite good enough to athlete to make that move.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: plays very well in space, sees things well in front of him, coverageability, how that has a plus in my notes.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he does an admirable job coming up in the run game, but like we talked about with the first two guys, like you need somebody that can really fill that hole and be able to hold their ground in there.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not Perkins.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Perkins is gonna get washed out at times.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that, you know, when I picture a role for Harold Perkins in the NFL, like I see him more is like your old school will linebacker, like you had your sand linebacker that played over at Titan, your mic, and then your will is the guy that played on the weekside, little more in space.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't see that as much in the NFL today, but, you know, we talk about what halfway did in Green Bay, right?
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: They use more third safety, some more third linebackers, and they did a third true corner
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: In Miami, then Perkins could be that third line better that comes on the field.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that would be a great fit for him.
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, like you talked about, that's not something you're looking to do.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, around one or even around two, like we're talking later in day two, in the day three, till you're looking for somebody to fill that type of niche role.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think he's built for those interior fits on those early downs,
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, coach, you're heading the money right on the head, right?
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are you're heading the nail right on the hammer right there?
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or you're nailing the hammer right into one of these days.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll get one of the third times of charge, but I see him more as that will start type of hybrid that we're seeing out of linebackers nowadays.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: have some concerns about his size for sure, but the reason why he's in this archetype of that multiplicity is because on those second and third-down passing fits, he's a hybrid guy.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if the dolphins don't necessarily have a third or fourth safety, that can play because we don't know what that defense of background for mine, you will look like right now.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like,
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're close to hitting free agency.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what the draft is going to look like, but this is where we are at this point in the season where we're doing this podcast.
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we have to give,
• 26:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have to talk about all eventualities at this point, because of all the guys in this class, Harold Perkins has the best coverage ability so far based on Jeff Halfley's defense.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because again, he's not gonna be asked to cover beyond 10 yards all the time.
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can see a more so as the big nickel guy that can beat or blitzer that can be your overhang guy in coverage as you know Eric you said it and that may give some quarterbacks and some slot guys and some wide receivers some fits.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: because he's 6-1 could potentially be 6-2, he's a much bigger guy and he's a much stronger guy than most of the defense of Bax as well.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to be very frustrating once live receivers and even some running Bax and Titans start getting hits for him because he can hit
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: and he's got phenomenal closing speed as well.
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you send him as one of those blitzers on those sim pressures or you get him up on the edge around a bigger guy like a Bradley Chub or you know utilize him how Chopra Robinson was used at Penn State where he's running around the field.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know where he's coming from.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You put him behind the guy and zoom.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's in the backfield.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are some pros and cons with Harold Perkins there, but if you utilize him as a piece, and they have a specific role in mind.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if, you know, Jeff Hathley, if they do draft him, they use him smartly, he could he could be a chess piece for this dolphin's defense.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I completely agreed.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're going to say a lot of the same things about the next guy
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the next guy now we're on to our second archetype is more so about the pressure engines and this is actually one of the guys that I like Jacob Rodriguez at a Texas tech he's not necessarily six to but he's six one 233 pounds think about Jordan Brooks when he was coming out of college right Jordan Brooks wasn't a first or second wrong pick I believe he was picked up around the third or fourth round and this is where I see Jacob Rodriguez being
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: 15.1% password when rate elite, 82.4 run defense per PFF elite, 11.3% have a great elite.
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Around 74 tackles last season, but a 15.1% miss tackles.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we need to contextualize that because that Texas tech defense had a lot of monsters on that defensive line.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, well, Jordan Brooks was actually a first round pick by really, number 27 overall.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: He can't even wow six foot 240 pounds.
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know my history.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just know that one because my son as a C. Oxpanth thankfully he is enjoying a team that has run one recently unlike us.
• 29:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's what I find interesting was my news on Jacob Rodriguez is that I I watched him.
• 29:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: on a separate day, might have even been a separate week from what I watched Harold Perkins, but my notes are very similar between the two.
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Another player that his frame really concerns me in terms of any three-down type linebacker, like I get what he's listed out, but he's not thick for a linebacker.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's not a, you know, a zactomistic neck type.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Type linebacker by any means.
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: uh... moves very well right but the kind of guy that i have worries about him getting washed out in the run game but he i mean the dude can play right he he's gonna get there is gonna make tackles he's going to
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: be productive, but there's always going to be that, yeah, but with him, right?
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is going to be the type of player that even if he becomes a full-time starter, right, you're going to get into a third and one situation and he's going to get washed out by a fullback.
• 30:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So for those reasons for me, like that's the only reason I have a little down on Jacob Rodriguez.
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I feel like there's kind of a hard ceiling is the what he can be.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't NFL linebacker?
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And there's always so much that you can do about that size.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we talk about the John Erick Sullivan and Jeff Halfley favoring the larger guys.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure that they'll like him in that sense.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: But again, I love him as a player.
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just have concerns about the way his frame will translate in the NFL game.
• 31:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the thing with Jacob Rodriguez is he's, he's really a, he's such an old school linebacker in the way that he plays the game just from like a, he's extremely instinctual and that's that's kind of what he's used to overcome some of his athletic limitations is that, you know, in those run plays where,
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: he isn't necessarily getting washed out, he wins by kind of seeing where the play is going to go and diagnosed and really early and getting there.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the same thing kind of in coverage is he's going to be a guy that kind of has to diagnose quicker to overcome maybe subpar speed at the linebacker position.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be interested to see how he runs if he does run at the combine.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: because if he does end up maybe sub 4-7, then I think the calculus kind of changes on him just a little bit.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of what Coach said does apply.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the play strength is going to be a big concern at the NFL level.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I like the durability with him and that kind of puts him a little bit over Harold Perkins for me.
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: the coverage wasn't as bad as he would think it was for a guy with just four seven speed, particularly in the box.
• 32:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: But overall Rodriguez does lack the overall athleticism in size.
• 32:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But again, really a stintual player.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think down the line, you know, he could be one
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, he's going to have to win with his instincts rather than his athleticism, and it's that's a tough way to win in the NFL, but we have seen it happen before.
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you're talking about an old school linebacker, you have to talk about Josiah Trotter, Adam and Jerry.
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is a classic case of an old school linebacker right there, and he's actually the son of former linebacker.
• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, was Jeremiah Trotter Jr.
• 33:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I believe right or Jeremiah Trotter.
• 33:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I believe he played for Clemson.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: If I'm not wrong, I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 34:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 34:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for Clemson.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Jr. played for
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: 85.3 run deeper PFF, elite, almost a 20% past rush win rate, elite, 8.5% miss tagl rate, elite, but
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: coverage wise is where the weakness starts getting into play.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Almost 107 cubier against him.
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a very sturdy and strong lower half of his body.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: He can downhill right into the gaps in their run game.
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: But when he asked him to cover sideline to sideline, carry those tight ends
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not his forte, right?
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's more so of a guy who's there on early downs can blitz into the gaps, helps out in those stunts, but if you ask him to cover, he better have that safety help as well around the middle of the field.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, his tape is a lot of fun to watch, especially me, he's an offensive line guy liking that between the tackle stuff.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a player that I, I almost wonder,
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: whether or not you can retrain his mentality right because part of his issues in coverage is that he is run first all the time like if he even thinks there's a run like he is triggering and he is flying through a lane and sometimes that can catch him with his eyes in the wrong place
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think that we talk about, we talk about sunny styles being a guy that will meet a block or head on, right?
• 35:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is Josiah Trotter.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is not running around anybody, right?
• 35:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is going to take him on, right?
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he shows the ability to destruct those blocks, both with power and with quickness.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like I would literally say that, you know, his work in the run game is round one material.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: But there is the obvious concerns in past coverage.
• 36:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in today's end, if all you have to be in all around player to get up into that round one range, just an awful linebacker.
• 36:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So again, like that kind of makes you wonder, like, can you fix that, right?
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Was that didn't Missouri kind of tell him that look, we want you to be a run defender?
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is what we want you to do, or was this Josiah Trotter just loving contact and ready to run through a wall every time?
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: At minimum, right?
• 36:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're getting an a land in Robert's type guy that is going to go in there and being early down, run defender, you know, if you can tell me that I can get Josiah Trotter late in day two and then circle back and get a Jacob Rodriguez or a Harold Perkins and use that that combination of doubling down on linebacker, like I think that that would be a really nice combination, but yeah, I love Josiah Trotter in terms of his run game stuff.
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I really like Josiah Trotter for those reasons.
• 37:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do have concerns, obviously, about the coverage ability.
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do wonder if maybe he would have benefited from staying in school for another year, because he is, what does he, I think he's this off more?
• 37:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Which is,
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I think maybe another year or two in school would have suited him well, but to coach his point, I mean that he is a younger prospect so that maybe points to him being more projectable and trainable at the NFL level.
• 37:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, a land in Roberts has a very good comparison for Josiah Trotter because he is
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: all downhill, all the time, all gas, no brakes, and again, it's a really fun guide to watch.
• 37:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that I do have some concerns about there is, again, we spoke about at the top of the show Jordan Brooks being the hammer.
• 38:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you would definitely be
• 38:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: doubling down on another hammer in desire trotter.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, listen, Jordan Brooks isn't going to be around forever.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know if desire trotter is the right fit at linebacker next to him, but as Coach mentioned,
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're looking at a guy late day two and that's kind of when I would start looking at a Josiah Trotter and you can circle back on day three and get a guy that maybe plays a little bit better in space.
• 38:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd have no issues with that.
• 38:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, and what that we are going to take a quick break.
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• 39:43
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• 39:51
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• 39:57
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• 40:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, another guy within this, you know, pressure type of archetype is Alabama's deontalos.
• 40:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now look, I do like his metrics, although there's a little bit of a concern with his, you know, lower body injury in 2024.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's also missing games as well with ankle issues.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you've heard anything we've said,
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jeff Hathley, well, more so John Eric Sullivan likes to have players that have played two years straight, unless you are an absolutely athlete, and I don't think that goes well for Deontail Lawson.
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't I'll be quick on this one.
• 41:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't see him as an elite ask that I don't feel like he's going to you know his top speed I don't think is going to be in the same range of some of these other guys that are similar size.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's not a he's not as physical as you know Rod regas You know guys like that.
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I get golfed in the run game
• 41:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, being small and lacking aggression in the run game is a bad combination for a linebacker.
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a guy for me that I see as a day three special team type guy that's really got to earn his time on the field.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Lawson, I mean, I'm not, again, for a guy that makes his
• 42:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like Coach mentioned he's just not the athlete that I would want.
• 42:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the place ranked is necessarily there.
• 42:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you look at a guy like Josiah Trotter and, you know, at the very least, you can you see the juice athletic lead to where, you know, if you can get him to.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really technique issues in coverage, not necessarily, hey, this guy isn't really the athlete to have the, to have the, um, the range with loss.
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I think he's a good leader.
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's, he knows where to be in terms of a lot of these run fits, but at the next level, I just don't know.
• 42:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: If it's going to play with his, you know, he's just not as physical as Trotter and he's not as physically gifted as some of these other guys and if you're going to be just a first and second down, you know, kind of run stopping linebacker, I don't know if that's really a good combination.
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's, I know we talked more so about his cons, but I don't think he's not that good in his own coverage, I think he's above average.
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: He keeps his head on a swivel a lot, you know, just trying to identify those multiple threads.
• 43:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: across the middle of the field, trying to read that quarterback squeezing those throwing windows.
• 43:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you watched him a little bit, he's got decent enough processing skills at the second level, which is also why he was given the green dot at Alabama.
• 43:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, his leadership is there, but he also does fire downhill, which is why he's
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: in that pressure category where he can run up those blitzes and, you know, he can act as a really good tackler behind the line of scrimmage if you do give him a clean load, but I
• 43:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe Eric, when you're talking about that zone, zone coverage is more so about like when you're dropping pretty much and you know it's, it's a lot of option routes by the run and backs and tight ends.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't see a whole lot of option routes in the NFL.
• 44:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: You see that more so in college, namely, up against Texas, Oklahoma, you know,
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: the SEC schools, as well.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't necessarily see that too much in the NFL.
• 44:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that might be a little bit an unfair judgment on him, but you guys are right about, you know, his athletic limitations.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where his you know, elite processing comes in.
• 44:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: You might not be the best athlete, but if he's able to diagnose some things,
• 44:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: that may be able to get him onto the field quicker, but maybe not as much.
• 44:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, the next archetype is more so.
• 44:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your structure, run fitters.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: The first one on this list is CJ Allen out of Georgia.
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I actually have him as my number two rated a linebacker on my bitboard.
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I haven't met three rating.
• 45:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's behind styles on the hill.
• 45:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Another play that I am very high on as well.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that a lot of my notes for Alan are very similar to styles, but kind of a step down from it.
• 45:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a little bit slower in terms of
• 45:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: processing the play, right?
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: But once he does, the trigger, his ability to play forward is very good.
• 45:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like he plays well and coverage in both man and zone concepts.
• 45:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he does a good job taking on blocks of the point of attack.
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he plays a bit high at times.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that you know, he gives up leveraging can get himself washed out of place sometimes in that sense.
• 45:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: But
• 45:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: to a sunny styles, but what they do I think is similar, it's just that styles is up there in a elite level of it and CJ Allen is just at a really good level for a lot of that stuff.
• 46:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no.
• 46:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, CJ Allen is is a true Mike backer.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's a guy that's going to step in and, you know, be a really solid player in the NFL for seven to 10 years for somebody.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, you know, the production at Georgia was really good up until the point that he got hurt.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the coverage numbers on him aren't necessarily indicative of how good he can be at the next level in terms of coverage.
• 46:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like you mentioned, the the trigger going downhill is extremely quick with him.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: The processing is, again, well, not a lead still very good at the line back
• 46:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: but really high level of physicality that, you know, even at 61230, he might be maybe just a tad undersized, but I don't think that really matters for a guy like CJ and I think he's going to step in, like I said, and just be a solid linebacker kind of a jack of all trades master of none kind of guy.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But just solid all around.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the next guy on the list is Jake gold a six four 240 pounds runs a sub four six and this guy is very highly highly Athletic 105 tackles last year 43 run stops in the last two years.
• 47:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's projected to have a four point two five shoulder one 36 inch vert and his fastest run was 22 miles per hour in Game
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Although he has not had a lot of past-rush success the last couple of seasons, which, again, leaves me to believe he's a run defense first type of guy.
• 47:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna let you take him first, Eric, thank you, higher on him than I am.
• 48:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like I like gold a lot.
• 48:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think gold they kind of suffers from the fact that he's been a man without a home for a little while, you know, Cincinnati really kind of used him in a variety of roles.
• 48:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know he started his college career as kind of a safety Cincinnati had him in the slot quite a bit last year and I like that versatility out of a guy like Golday but I think it's kind of he doesn't necessarily have the processing that you would want out of a linebacker out the box and he is a guy that does rely on his athleticism to kind of make up for that a little bit
• 48:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think as a guy that doesn't have a ton of reps at the linebacker spot, he's a guy that I think will get better with time as far as his processing goes and diagnosing plays.
• 49:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Both against the run and the pass, really aggressive in coming downhill, plays with
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: good strength, but he does play kind of upright quite a bit and so blockers will kind of get up underneath him occasionally.
• 49:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I look at him and I know, you know, a lot of people kind of see the
• 49:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a lot of guys like Jay Goldey that are like great theoretical players because you look at their athletics stats and you're like, they should be able to do this and for this and that and they can't really do any of it.
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: At least not to the level that they need at the NFL level, but I think Goldey has the makeup to play with the red was it physicality that you know guys like.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You think of like Isaiah Simmons in recent years who kind of had a similar profile and kind of washed out.
• 49:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I really like gold.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can understand why there would be apprehension, um, but I think that a lot of that can be attributed to a lack of reps at a true linebacker spot.
• 50:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 50:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, go ahead, Coach.
• 50:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I was going to say that I was with Eric up until the Isaiah Simmons comparison.
• 50:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't see the, I don't see the same level athlete there, but a lot of the reason that you talked about that you liked him are the reasons that I am a little bit lower on him.
• 50:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is a guy that hasn't really found at home.
• 50:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like he does a lot of things around average for a college player, but not to an NFL level for me.
• 50:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Him being a red shirt senior, I have a little bit more skepticism of how much more that can develop, but that kind of explains why we have a difference in the way that we have him ranked.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now we move on to the very last archetype in this defense, which is more so a developmental role type of player.
• 50:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to go one by one for each, but the guys that we have on there include touring Newark out of Texas, say, Caluas out of Pitt, Aiden Fisher out of Indiana and Cleo Murdock, whose nickname is actually red out of Buffalo.
• 51:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk a little bit around touring New York because it seems as if Coach and Eric actually really, really liked this guy.
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let you take that one coach.
• 51:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, similar to when we were talking about, Josiah Trotter, right?
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a guy that I really like the way that he plays in the box.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know that his size is limited a little bit there.
• 51:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's on the shorter side of Ironman McCreckly.
• 51:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: But guys, we'll have to get there.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 51:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: But like so when we talked about Rodriguez not being that exact Thomas type thicker player.
• 51:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Tori New York is that type of player.
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like he's shorter, but he's got a bit of a thicker build to him.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's not going to be just eye a trotter taking on blocks on the inside.
• 52:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that he has some ability to play in the box more than
• 52:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: some of these other guys think he moves well enough in space.
• 52:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: But similar to talking about Rodriguez right there is a bit of a ceiling to what he can be.
• 52:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's a player that I really like I see him being a three down type player, but you know maybe not in elite pro bull type player.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, listen, the thing that draws me to York is like you mentioned number one, I think the the physicality at his size, like you mentioned he's yeah, he's five ten, but he's he's two thirty two thirty plus.
• 52:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I think, wow, you know, we talk about guys like CJ Allen having good processing.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Tori in York is
• 52:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: The closest thing to Sonny's, just in terms of processing in this class, because he is fantastic in terms of played diagnosis.
• 53:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, if he was, if he was 6162, I think he's probably second or third linebacker in this class.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, you know, unfortunate that he has those physical limitations.
• 53:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, last one we'll talk about is I want that never really came on my radar, but Coach mentioned him and that's Chloe Murdoch out of Buffalo.
• 53:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I digged around and did some research on him, six, three, 240.
• 53:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not really that fast.
• 53:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's got around a 4.8 projected 40.
• 53:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: When quarterback's throw his way, 83.7qbr, 61.6 run defense grade, but
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you take a look at the turnovers and especially the force fumble, he makes, he's had around 10 or 11 force fumbles within the last two years, and also because of the film he watches, and how he takes a look at how ball carriers, you know,
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: carry the football, you know, the five points of contact, how high or how low they're carrying the ball, and he's really, really gap sound on run defense guys.
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was, I was kind of shocked, you know, because I hadn't really heard of him, but
• 54:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not your three-down type of guy, though.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's more so on the bigger end, a little bit slower.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think he'll make a team just by his special teams, by his size, his weight, and special team prowess.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if he's used on those sub-packages where you really need a guy to
• 54:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: create a turnover or you put him up on the edge as that fifth pass pressure coming in and you're getting good enough pressure on that quarterback where you know he can nick the ball out but again the more so of a role player type of guy.
• 55:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head there for the most part.
• 55:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's a good not great athlete.
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: He lacks a feel in coverage for me.
• 55:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's good as a blitzer, he will run through a running back that's trying to step in his way.
• 55:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: There are things to like about him, but there are also some notable concerns in the way that he reacts to some of the plays.
• 55:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the concern there is that those concerns are happening at Buffalo, which is not
• 55:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, premiere division one program, right?
• 55:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's going to be a bit of a jump from him going to the NFL.
• 55:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I do think this is the type of player that you would draft.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: You would insert him into special teams and then look to develop him from there.
• 55:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we talked enough about the front seven of Miami's defense, you know, circling back to the very first episode.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they definitely need an edge guy in Miami who can win those 101 matchups, who can, you know, really, you know, start that pressure that can win on third downs, you know, interior defensive linemen role players that can control the pocket that can get, you know, money that look for the quarterback.
• 56:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's going to be up to these linebackers.
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to decide when that pressure hits, they're going to be the first line of defense in coverage around the middle of the field.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the big question is, who's the cleanest fit next to Jordan Brooks?
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about some of these styles being the best guy having that disguise looks to coverage, the pressure,
• 56:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think all three of us can agree that Anthony Hill Jr. is also another one of those guys if you want that pressure chaos, a couple with good to decent enough coverage, but I sounds like, you know, everyone else kind of fills a role that is not necessarily first or second-round worthy based on Jeff Hathley's defense.
• 57:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, agreed, I mean, there's, there's a lot of guys in this graph that do the off-ball linebacker position that do certain things well, but there's only a couple of guys there that you could put in there and are gonna do everything well.
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, listen, you've got it's, it's, there's a handful of guys that are three down guys that can be three down guys.
• 57:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But as Coach mentioned, you know, everyone else are, you know, specialists to varying degrees as to how good they are at, you know, those things.
• 57:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, when you're looking at just a true three downline back or I think it's
• 57:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: sunny styles and a handful others and then, you know, everyone else is specialists to kind of varying degrees.
• 58:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's pretty much it for the Deline Backer episode.
• 58:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sick with us here on Scouting The Fins.
• 58:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about the defensive back group.
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Next, don't know if we'll talk about Corners first or safety's, but you'll know when the next episode hits.
• 58:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: As always, you can find us on the ThurasPakari podcast feed.
• 58:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also part of the Finds Five Reason Sports Network.
• 58:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: As always, GoFins, baby.