Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / She sends 65,000 texts & sneaks into his bathtub after just one date! Claims 'Love is for Infinity'

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She sends 65,000 texts & sneaks into his bathtub after just one date! Claims 'Love is for Infinity' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: M Triumph Channel. I'm thirty two. Have you ever just
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Speaker 1: had a bad date and you know instinctively this is
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Speaker 1: not gonna work out. There's just something wrong. Don't know
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Speaker 1: what it is. They're pleasant enough, but it's just not
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Speaker 1: that's just not the right one. You just know, well,
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Speaker 1: what if that person turns out to be the freakiest
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Speaker 1: stalker you've ever met, that wants to quote bathe in
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Speaker 1: your blood. Think about it. Bathe in your blood. And
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Speaker 1: as you're watching happened to be watching your home surveillance
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Speaker 1: one day from work, you notice somebody's in your bathtub. Okay, problem,
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us. That is exactly what happened. And Arizona woman,
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Speaker 1: it's really attractive. A thirty one year old Arizona woman,
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Speaker 1: Jacqueline Aids, allegedly sends sixty five thousand, sixty five thousand
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Speaker 1: text messages to a guy she dates one time straight
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Speaker 1: out to investigative reporter with Radar Online dot Com, our colleague,
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Speaker 1: Alexis ter Rest Chuck, Alexis, I want dated a guy
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Speaker 1: that wanted to pick out my clothes and would suggest
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Speaker 1: that I wear this necklace or that necklace. And he
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Speaker 1: could cook better than me, he could do everything arts
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Speaker 1: he better than me. He could set a table better
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Speaker 1: than me. Long story short, I thought it was a
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Speaker 1: little weird somebody wanted to pick out my clothes. Okay,
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Speaker 1: even that much bothered me. I cannot even imagine sixty
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Speaker 1: thousand texts. What happened? Alexis, Please tell me this person
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Speaker 1: is in jail. Yes, police finally arrested this crazy lady
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Speaker 1: because I used the word crazy quote because she actually
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Speaker 1: says I'm crazy. Here's the thing. She meets this man.
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Speaker 1: He doesn't even want us to know his name, unidentified man.
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Speaker 1: He they go on one date. They met. Blame him?
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Speaker 1: Do you blame him? How did they meet? Okay, what
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Speaker 1: we have zoomed forward to the first date? How did
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Speaker 1: they meet? They met on a dating app, Tinder bumble.
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Speaker 1: You know, you just swipe left, swipe right. Cute, let's
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Speaker 1: meet up? You send you send each other A couple
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Speaker 1: of text messages is the thing you do after you
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Speaker 1: meet on the side. So they met up. They had
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Speaker 1: one date. He was not interested. I didn't want to
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Speaker 1: go out with her ever. Again, fine, they move on.
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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, she starts showing that she sends
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Speaker 1: actually a couple of text messages. Again, nothing outside of
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Speaker 1: the norm. You know, I thought it liked you. What's
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Speaker 1: going on? Now? She shows up at his house and
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Speaker 1: he gets really scared. He actually calls the police and says,
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Speaker 1: this lady that I went on one date with shows
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Speaker 1: up outside my house. The police come right away. She leaves,
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Speaker 1: and that is when the harassment starts. She starts sending
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Speaker 1: him up to five hundred text messages a day, so
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Speaker 1: she goes off. Her rocker allegedly said, wait a minute,
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Speaker 1: do we know what the text messages say. I'm a
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Speaker 1: little interested in that. Okay, so five text messages a day.
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Speaker 1: This is not just for a week or anything. This
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Speaker 1: goes on for six months, six months. Okay, guys, let's
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Speaker 1: hear it from the horses mouth. Take him to listen
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Speaker 1: to Jacqueline Aids. I met him online. I was looking
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Speaker 1: for my healing angel. To the psychic I meant told
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Speaker 1: me I would meet a healing angel. I felt like
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Speaker 1: I met my soul meet and everything was just the
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Speaker 1: way it was, And I thought we would just do
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Speaker 1: what everybody else did and we would just like get
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Speaker 1: married and everything would be fine. But that's not what happened.
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Speaker 1: And you don't stop giving, even if you don't receive,
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Speaker 1: You all of a sudden received a lot. Okay, wait
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Speaker 1: a minute, Alexis Dress Chuck Radar online dot com. You
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Speaker 1: didn't tell me anything about a psidekick, and you didn't
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Speaker 1: tell me anything about a healing angel. Hello, yep, so
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Speaker 1: that's what she said. You know, sometimes people have a
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Speaker 1: first date and they do fall in love and they
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Speaker 1: get married. That is rare. I I don't know anybody
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Speaker 1: where that has happened. But so she she goes insane.
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Speaker 1: She loves this guy, and you know, this is an Arizona.
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Speaker 1: This really really reminded me of Jody Arias, especially what
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Speaker 1: the same exact thought I thought of Jody Arias too,
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Speaker 1: who also gave a lot of freaky jailhouse interviews. Joining
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Speaker 1: me right now, and boy do we need a shrink.
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Speaker 1: Renowned psychologists out of New York Lauren Howard Lauren, why
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Speaker 1: did she think that they would just get married quote
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Speaker 1: like everybody else does after their first day. You know,
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Speaker 1: it's the hardest thing to do with people that, uh
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Speaker 1: a layman might identify as crazy. I mean, you hear
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Speaker 1: this story and you know you just think, okay, this
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Speaker 1: girl not. But the truth is, you've got it. You've
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Speaker 1: got to understand from her point of view, this is
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Speaker 1: normal and it's you know, no thy enemy, no thuy
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Speaker 1: quote unquote crazy verse. You have to understand what's going
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Speaker 1: on in a head. This is a girl who obviously
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Speaker 1: suffers from an obsessive compulsive disorder, no question about it.
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Speaker 1: I certainly hope she has an unlimited data plan. She
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Speaker 1: her belief system about what is love is is not
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Speaker 1: a t it's she believes that it's a one giving
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Speaker 1: You shall receive whatever you know, put it out there
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Speaker 1: in the world, treat people the way you want to
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Speaker 1: be treated and it will come back to you. And
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Speaker 1: that those are all good sort of life philosophies. But
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Speaker 1: if you now take them to the level of on
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Speaker 1: this continuum of an obsessive compulsive this is what you get.
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Speaker 1: I mean. But if you have to remember from her
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Speaker 1: point of view, this is she's a good person, this
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Speaker 1: is normal. She knows he doesn't. She's found her Earth angel,
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Speaker 1: So I mean, that's what's going on. This is not
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Speaker 1: um a crazy person. This is an unwell person. Another
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Speaker 1: issue out to forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, you know
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Speaker 1: in those horror movies, you think you here's somebody that
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Speaker 1: you look and they're not there. Well, there were calls
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Speaker 1: all the way back in December where he thought she
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Speaker 1: was skulking around his home, and one of those times
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Speaker 1: cops didn't find any evidence of her. Another time they
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Speaker 1: found her skulking around his home on the outside. That's
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Speaker 1: freaky to think she's out there looking in and they
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Speaker 1: also find her sitting in her car. There are multiple
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Speaker 1: calls to police up from him claiming that she what
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Speaker 1: I can tell because the recalls to that home of
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Speaker 1: a trespasser, but they couldn't find her. Now that gives
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Speaker 1: it a whole another twist. Just got Morgan, Just got
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Speaker 1: Morgan joining me forensics expert and professor forensics that Jack,
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Speaker 1: Civil State University, just Scott. The thing is the cops
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Speaker 1: couldn't even find her, but he knew she had been there.
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Speaker 1: That's scary. Yeah, it is. This guy had gone in
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Speaker 1: and you know, set up cameras in his own home, Uh,
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Speaker 1: to surveil this woman, or to surveil whatever's going on
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Speaker 1: around his house. I wonder if she was she had
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Speaker 1: an awareness that she was on tape. You know, she's
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Speaker 1: this psychotic Uh you know, I'm wondering if she if
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Speaker 1: she's aware of it, that she's demonstrating to him in
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Speaker 1: some kind of twisted way that she's still in his space. Um.
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Speaker 1: You know, I was listening just a moment ago to
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Speaker 1: to our psychiatrist there and I was thinking, Wow, you know,
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Speaker 1: she's got all of this spare time on her hands
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Speaker 1: to spend all of this time, uh doing this? And
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Speaker 1: how how she's staying off the radar of the cops. Uh,
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Speaker 1: we're talking sixty texts. She's stalking this guy going everywhere.
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Speaker 1: Why can't they track him? Then? Well, here is another dichotomy.
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Speaker 1: She claimed, send her interview, which is weird that she's
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Speaker 1: giving interviews anyway, That she would never hurt him. Listen, No,
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Speaker 1: oh my god, No, I love him so much. I
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Speaker 1: just want to love him so much, I said. And
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Speaker 1: if he doesn't like it, then I'll go home. And
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Speaker 1: I love my exploitment. What am I supposed to do? Okay,
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Speaker 1: that's pretty flippant for a woman that has now been booked, arrested,
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Speaker 1: and fingerprinted. But she says she wouldn't hurt and that's
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Speaker 1: not exactly what some of her texts say that she
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Speaker 1: he showed to the court he wants to remain anonymous,
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Speaker 1: and do you blame him? Some messages allude that quote
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Speaker 1: harm may come to him end quote. Also quote don't
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Speaker 1: ever try to leave me dot dot dot, I'll kill
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Speaker 1: you dot dot dot. I don't want to be a murderer.
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Speaker 1: She also says she wanted to wear his body parts
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Speaker 1: and bathe in his blood. According to court paperwork, Okay, okay,
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Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chuck so far off her from you. They
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Speaker 1: meet on a dating website and she bombards him with
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Speaker 1: sixty five thousand texts. What about the wearing your body parts? Yeah,
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Speaker 1: that's she just says, Oh, I would never heard him.
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Speaker 1: Pretty much, all of the text messages that he read
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Speaker 1: to the court show that she did want to hurt him.
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Speaker 1: You know, she said, you know what I'm thinking about,
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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about your blood, and I'm thinking about how
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Speaker 1: I would like to bathe in it. There's there's nothing
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Speaker 1: about that that's not violent. She also starts talking about Hitler,
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Speaker 1: and she starts talking about how she she really admired
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Speaker 1: this man, this this Nazi man and his everything about
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Speaker 1: Hitler is murdered. So so you have to connect the two.
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Speaker 1: She absolutely was threatening this man's life. Well, take a
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Speaker 1: listen to her. Jacqueline aids in a jail house interview,
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Speaker 1: why did you text him sixty five thousand times? Because
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Speaker 1: it made me find out all my information? Loving himselflessly
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Speaker 1: brought this information because every but he just wants to take.
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Speaker 1: But if you just give, and you don't stop giving,
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Speaker 1: even if you don't receive, you all of a sudden receive.
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Speaker 1: What did he tell you to stop contacting him? I
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Speaker 1: don't want to talk about that? Do you listen to that?
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Speaker 1: I want to talk about that. Text messages to me
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Speaker 1: seem like more see about that's kind of excessive. Love
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Speaker 1: is an excessive thing. Can you understand why people think
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Speaker 1: this is a little bit out there? Can you? Are
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Speaker 1: you a crazy person? Tell us for are you like
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Speaker 1: I'm the person that discovered love? Okay? She never explains
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Speaker 1: or reveals that he asked her to please stop texting
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Speaker 1: him sixty five thousand text messages later, breaking into his home,
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Speaker 1: getting into his bathtub, claiming she wants to wear his
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Speaker 1: body parts and eithan his blood. Multiple calls to police,
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Speaker 1: and they couldn't find her when they got there, a
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Speaker 1: butcher knife in her car. It goes on and on
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Speaker 1: and on. Oops, I left out the part where she
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Speaker 1: impersonates his wife. He doesn't have a wife. Number one
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Speaker 1: but people thought they don't even know her, they saw
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Speaker 1: her in public and claims she was acting bizarrely. Then
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Speaker 1: she told others, possibly police, that she was the victim's wife.
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Speaker 1: What happened there alexis Urez Chuck. So this guy is
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Speaker 1: at work and she showed up somehow. He hasn't said,
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Speaker 1: but he apparently has security at his office because she
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Speaker 1: showed up at his work and said she was his
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Speaker 1: wife and wanted to see him, and they would not
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Speaker 1: let her in, and he called the police again. So
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Speaker 1: this this guy is he's really desperate. This is like
12:51
Speaker 1: so many stories that we hear. It's often, you know,
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Speaker 1: a woman saying, I think this person is talking to me.
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Speaker 1: That's what he does. He calls the police. He says,
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Speaker 1: she's here again. She has found my office, which is
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Speaker 1: really scary that people. I guess you can find out
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Speaker 1: so much about people online now, but that she showed
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Speaker 1: up there, parked her car and walked in there. Who
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Speaker 1: knows if this time she could have had a weapon
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Speaker 1: on her. So he calls the police. They come, they
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Speaker 1: take her away again, but she's still free. She is
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Speaker 1: not in jail. He then goes out of the country
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Speaker 1: on a business trip, and he has installed in his
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Speaker 1: home remote security so he can look at it from
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Speaker 1: another place. So he's looking on his phone while he's
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Speaker 1: out of the country, looks in his bathroom and she
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Speaker 1: is in his bathroom taking a bath. She has broken
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Speaker 1: into his home and is taking a bath. He frantically
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Speaker 1: calls the police again. The police show up at his house.
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Speaker 1: They arrest her, and this is what they found. They
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Speaker 1: found a huge butcher's knife in the front seat of
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Speaker 1: her car. So this woman had every intention of committing
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Speaker 1: a violent crime. She had a knife with her butcher's knife.
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Speaker 1: That's this isn't you know, a small Swiss army knife
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Speaker 1: that might carry on your key chain for protection. A
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Speaker 1: butcher's NiFe is a huge knife. And she had broken
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Speaker 1: into his house. And a lot of people are saying
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Speaker 1: she was in his home. No, that's not what she was.
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Speaker 1: She broke into his home and took a bath in
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Speaker 1: his bath. What if he had come home to this.
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Speaker 1: Luckily he had the security he was protecting himself. And
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Speaker 1: the police finally responded and finally put her in jail.
14:26
Speaker 1: A woman accused of stalking tells her story in a
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Speaker 1: jail house interview, trying to explain why she sent a
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Speaker 1: Paradise of valleyman sixty thousand text messages claiming she wanted
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Speaker 1: to wear his body parts and bathe in his blood. Uh,
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Speaker 1: you know, Lauren Howard, a New York psychologist. You're saying
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Speaker 1: she has a compulsive disorder. That is not insanity. That
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Speaker 1: is not a defense under the law. When do you
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Speaker 1: understand that what you're doing is wrong, that it would
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Speaker 1: be perceived as crazy. She doesn't. She thinks it's perfectly normal.
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Speaker 1: And you know, Nancy, the whole insanity I mean, is
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Speaker 1: anyone saying who commits some of the heinous crimes that
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Speaker 1: we see. I mean, obviously, uh, these kinds of criminals
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Speaker 1: are deeply disturbed. That doesn't mean that they should get
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Speaker 1: away with it or get off because of a claim
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Speaker 1: of insanity. If if you will, give insanity a bad name,
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Speaker 1: because not all insane people are violent. She thinks that
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Speaker 1: what she did was not only fine, but she thinks
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Speaker 1: it was in his best interests. So, you know, should
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Speaker 1: she get off on an insanity place, I'm certain that
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Speaker 1: someone that that will be her defense, because frankly, it's
15:45
Speaker 1: her only defense. I as a mental health professional, don't
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Speaker 1: think that that gives her a get out of jail card.
15:52
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a dangerous person. She needs help. Okay,
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Speaker 1: let me understand something, jess As Scott Morgan, and you're
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Speaker 1: the forensic sex part. She says things like, I'd wear
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Speaker 1: your facia in the top of your skull and your
16:09
Speaker 1: hands and feet. I'm not I'm just a j D
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Speaker 1: all right. But isn't that the connective tissue in your body. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's kind of white tissue that connects the skin literally
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Speaker 1: as an overlying layer of skin to Okay, are right.
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Speaker 1: She goes on to say, oh, what I would do
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Speaker 1: with your blood? I'd want to bathe in it. I'm
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Speaker 1: like the new Hitler. The man was a genius. Then
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Speaker 1: she has a string of anti Semitic words, which I
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Speaker 1: take very personally. Don't ever try to leave me. I'll
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Speaker 1: kill you. I don't want to be a murderer. Okay.
16:52
Speaker 1: She um veers from topic to topic, rambling about Einstein.
16:58
Speaker 1: She talks about the birth part of Jesus. I didn't
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Speaker 1: really know when he was born. I just assume we
17:04
Speaker 1: just picked December twenty five because it's a fun time.
17:07
Speaker 1: But she talks about his birth chart, the symbolism of
17:10
Speaker 1: the markings on a dollar bill. You know what, Alex says,
17:14
Speaker 1: you have this to look forward to with your little boy. Um,
17:17
Speaker 1: John David and Lucy for about a minute, but John
17:20
Speaker 1: David Moore, so got obsessed for a while about the
17:23
Speaker 1: marks on a dollar bill, and we had to watch
17:26
Speaker 1: National Treasure abouts. So this woman is uh fascinated with
17:32
Speaker 1: the symbolism of the markings on a dollar bill. She
17:36
Speaker 1: rants rambling about Einstein, the Dead Sea, Christ's birth chart
17:40
Speaker 1: and the symbolism of the markings on a dollar bill.
17:43
Speaker 1: Has yours been through that yet? Alexis with the dollar bill? No,
17:46
Speaker 1: he just likes the space Shuttle because we have one
17:49
Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles. He wants to be an astronaut. Now, okay,
17:52
Speaker 1: I'm glad you got me off my topic of this
17:54
Speaker 1: woman wanting to bathe in his blood for a minute.
17:56
Speaker 1: But back to her. She then says, I love o
18:00
Speaker 1: m G. I love him so much. Then she says, um,
18:04
Speaker 1: he's the meanest person I've ever met, and he's my
18:06
Speaker 1: soul mate. Okay, um, it's like from one moment to
18:13
Speaker 1: the next, I have to share the message of love.
18:16
Speaker 1: Everybody has to love each other. Okay. Well, she's been
18:20
Speaker 1: booked into the Fourth Avenue Jail charges of threatening, stalking, harassment,
18:25
Speaker 1: and failure to appear. She's being held without bond. What's
18:29
Speaker 1: the likelihood that she had repeat offend if she gets
18:33
Speaker 1: out on bond. Lauren Howard, Oh, highly likely unless she
18:39
Speaker 1: gets help. Um, you know, I haven't witnessed her firsthand.
18:44
Speaker 1: I don't know what her life history is. I don't
18:46
Speaker 1: know what her relationship history is. Uh. This didn't just emerge.
18:50
Speaker 1: There's a story here. Um you know, there's a longitudinal story.
18:55
Speaker 1: She didn't just become this person after meeting this man. Uh,
18:59
Speaker 1: this woman, it's help. Should she be in the general population. No?
19:03
Speaker 1: Should she get off by reason of insanity? No? Should
19:07
Speaker 1: she be put in a prison system. I'd be hard
19:12
Speaker 1: pressed to just be back. Okay, then you know what,
19:14
Speaker 1: You bring her home to your place in Manhattan and
19:18
Speaker 1: let her make you a nice romantic dinner tonight. I
19:23
Speaker 1: want her put away, but I'd like her to be help. Okay,
19:26
Speaker 1: let's take a listen to Jacqueline Aids. She describes the
19:29
Speaker 1: quote love equation. The point of love is to keep
19:32
Speaker 1: giving it. That's the math equation is love equals three
19:35
Speaker 1: point three, which is infinity times equals and squared, which
19:39
Speaker 1: is life, lateness, forever, and equals. If love was the number,
19:44
Speaker 1: it would be three. So it's infinity times like, which
19:46
Speaker 1: is also infanity. So it's just forward, forever forward, and
19:49
Speaker 1: if you're selfish, you can't understand that. If you want
19:51
Speaker 1: to read and hear more about the prosecution of Jacqueline
19:55
Speaker 1: Aids and the details regarding how she stalked this guy,
19:58
Speaker 1: go to crime online dot com for the very latest
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21:07
Speaker 1: root out the most dangerous people before you become the
21:11
Speaker 1: next victim. As not just used to us bad people.
21:15
Speaker 1: Truth Finder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, even people
21:19
Speaker 1: who served with them in the military. It's never been
21:23
Speaker 1: so easy to find the truth. Go to truth finder
21:26
Speaker 1: dot com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started.
21:30
Speaker 1: I remember the twins at just three months old. I
21:34
Speaker 1: remember I was doing everything I could to keep them
21:36
Speaker 1: alive because Lucy was extremely premature and every day was
21:42
Speaker 1: a struggle. I handled them like they were gold, taking
21:46
Speaker 1: every possible precaution to keep them alive. And then I
21:53
Speaker 1: find out about this investigation. A three month old baby
21:59
Speaker 1: girl is dead in her own home, mauled dead by
22:08
Speaker 1: a family dog. Straight out to Alexis terres Chuck with
22:14
Speaker 1: Radar Online dot com, Alexis, I can't even take it in.
22:21
Speaker 1: Long story short, you have a little boy as well.
22:24
Speaker 1: At three months old. There's no way a tiny infant
22:28
Speaker 1: can do anything to protect itself. What happened? So the
22:32
Speaker 1: baby was being baby sat by the grandmother in the
22:35
Speaker 1: home with three dogs, a rottweiler, a labrador and a chihuahua,
22:43
Speaker 1: two very large dogs, one very small dog. Grandma was
22:46
Speaker 1: babysitting just a tiny three month old baby. She says
22:50
Speaker 1: that she got up, she went to get a bottle
22:53
Speaker 1: for the baby because she was taking care of her,
22:55
Speaker 1: and that she came back and the dogs were mauling
22:59
Speaker 1: on a child. She immediately called nine one one. Well,
23:03
Speaker 1: another thing I don't understand, Alexis Torres chuck with me
23:06
Speaker 1: from writer online dot com. Where was the child? Was
23:09
Speaker 1: the child in a a bassinet? Was it on the bed?
23:14
Speaker 1: I mean, how did they get to the baby? Was
23:17
Speaker 1: it on the floor. I believe the baby was actually
23:20
Speaker 1: on a sofa. And at three months old, the baby
23:22
Speaker 1: can't roll around. Really, babies can't do it. Well, every
23:24
Speaker 1: baby is different. My baby because not rolling around at
23:26
Speaker 1: three months on his own, so something that you know,
23:30
Speaker 1: they're tiny, they're squaddle, you wrap them up and they
23:33
Speaker 1: can't really move. So I understand the baby was on
23:35
Speaker 1: a sofa, you know, on the sofa though that that
23:37
Speaker 1: seems as if the dogs would have easier access. Let
23:41
Speaker 1: me go to our expert, Dr Gray Stafford. I know
23:44
Speaker 1: from being the director of conservation at the Wildlife World
23:47
Speaker 1: zoo and aquarium. But Dr Stafford now a professor, Gray,
23:54
Speaker 1: I'm just beside myself with what happened to this three
23:58
Speaker 1: month old baby girl. You're absolutely right, Nancy. It's another
24:01
Speaker 1: tragic situation, and it's a it's a terrible reminder that
24:04
Speaker 1: you know, even though we have so many millions of
24:06
Speaker 1: dogs in our homes as pets, they're still animals. We
24:09
Speaker 1: still have to protect our kids at all times and
24:12
Speaker 1: and never look away before the shortest month time, especially
24:15
Speaker 1: with a young infant like this. But Gray, everywhere I
24:18
Speaker 1: turn when I do a dog bawling story, uh, And
24:21
Speaker 1: there's so many of them where they kill their owners.
24:25
Speaker 1: I know everybody's gonna get crazy on this, but it's
24:28
Speaker 1: always Rottweilers and pit bolt now Rottweiler and a couple
24:34
Speaker 1: of times press the Canarias, but Rottwilers and pit bull
24:38
Speaker 1: owners or lovers get furious with me. But I mean,
24:43
Speaker 1: you never hear of a docks in or really a
24:46
Speaker 1: German shepherd or I don't really recall Doberman pinchers so much.
24:50
Speaker 1: It's always these two. Now, why why is it? Why
24:54
Speaker 1: is it always these two uh types of dogs? Well,
24:58
Speaker 1: a lot of it has to just go with the X. Right.
25:00
Speaker 1: These are big, large body dog breeds so Gray, so
25:06
Speaker 1: are Saint Bernard's, and we see them running down a
25:09
Speaker 1: snowy hill with hot chocolate around their neck to save people,
25:13
Speaker 1: not ripping the throat out of a three month old
25:15
Speaker 1: baby girl Gray. It's not about the size, it's something else. Well. Also,
25:20
Speaker 1: these are very popular breeds compared to say a St. Bernard's,
25:22
Speaker 1: so a lot of it has to do just with
25:24
Speaker 1: the sheer numbers of these breeds that are in people's homes.
25:27
Speaker 1: But it goes back to training. It goes back to
25:29
Speaker 1: preparing these animals for change. As you indicated. You know,
25:32
Speaker 1: having a child or two is a huge change for
25:36
Speaker 1: a family much as well as their pets, and we
25:39
Speaker 1: have to make sure that these animals are prepared for
25:41
Speaker 1: the changes that are brought about by a baby. Uh.
25:44
Speaker 1: And when animals are not prepared for those changes, they
25:46
Speaker 1: often react in ways that are that are not They're
25:49
Speaker 1: not good at all. Well, this is what I don't understand.
25:51
Speaker 1: How could they the three animals there's a Rottweil or
25:54
Speaker 1: a Labrador and a terrier. Alexis terres chuck riter online
25:58
Speaker 1: dot com. Correct me if I'm wrong. They haven't attributed
26:01
Speaker 1: it to whichever dog, but with a Rottweiler in the mix,
26:05
Speaker 1: I guarantee you that was the ring. Later, how can
26:08
Speaker 1: they turn on a pen great and be normal animals,
26:13
Speaker 1: loving pets, and then the grandmother walks out to get
26:17
Speaker 1: a bottle and they suddenly attacked the baby. Well, it
26:21
Speaker 1: may have nothing to do with the baby, but the
26:23
Speaker 1: baby was there and available. But you know, babies come
26:26
Speaker 1: with all sorts of sounds and different How can you
26:30
Speaker 1: even say it has nothing to do with the baby.
26:32
Speaker 1: They ate the baby. It is all about the baby.
26:35
Speaker 1: What do you mean it has nothing to do with
26:36
Speaker 1: the baby. What I mean is the motivation for their
26:39
Speaker 1: behavior may have had nothing to do with the baby initially,
26:41
Speaker 1: but the baby is they're present. It's called displaced aggression,
26:44
Speaker 1: and we see it all the time in animals and
26:46
Speaker 1: in people. Um, I don't know for certain that that
26:49
Speaker 1: was the case, but animals, again, it goes back to
26:52
Speaker 1: their preparation for dealing with change, dealing with frustration, uh,
26:56
Speaker 1: dealing with new things in the home. And we just
26:59
Speaker 1: don't know what level of these animals prepared were prepared
27:01
Speaker 1: for that, And obviously by the outcome. Uh more was
27:04
Speaker 1: needed to Alexis to res Chuck right online dot com.
27:08
Speaker 1: Let's go through the facts from beginning to end. What
27:11
Speaker 1: to start at the beginning? Maybe I'm missing something. This
27:15
Speaker 1: is the home where the little girl lives her grandmother.
27:18
Speaker 1: Her parents are not home. Her grandmother is taking care
27:21
Speaker 1: of her. So little girl needs a bottle because that's
27:24
Speaker 1: how she gets fed. The grandmother leaves the baby just
27:27
Speaker 1: three months old, tiny thing in one room, goes in
27:30
Speaker 1: the other room. There are three dogs in the house,
27:33
Speaker 1: a right wiler, a Labrador, and the chihuahua. Tiny dogs.
27:39
Speaker 1: So two dogs that are about nine pounds, one dog
27:42
Speaker 1: that's about ten pounds. And grandma leaves the room to
27:46
Speaker 1: heat up the bottle, mix the bottle, take care of
27:48
Speaker 1: the bottle in the other room in the kitchen. Comes
27:50
Speaker 1: back in and the dogs are mauling this baby. You know,
27:55
Speaker 1: she tries to get them off. It's almost more than
27:57
Speaker 1: I can take king, you know, Alexis to rest Chuck.
27:59
Speaker 1: You remember when I had the twins, John, David and Lucy.
28:02
Speaker 1: I was don't laugh at me. I had you know,
28:05
Speaker 1: I'm not a cat person at all, Alexis, but I
28:08
Speaker 1: took in a solid black stray cat. When I was
28:12
Speaker 1: living in Midtown Atlanta, I brought the cat in. I
28:15
Speaker 1: fell in love with the cat, Coco. It was a
28:18
Speaker 1: boy cat, and I had Cocoa for eighteen years. I
28:23
Speaker 1: became a cat person because of Coco. I was so
28:27
Speaker 1: freaked out, Alexis, I wouldn't even let my belove a cat,
28:32
Speaker 1: be around the twins by themselves. I don't know what
28:35
Speaker 1: I thought was gonna happen. I thought maybe they might
28:38
Speaker 1: get scratched. I didn't know, but I would not even
28:41
Speaker 1: allow Coco, my my old cat, to be alone around
28:45
Speaker 1: the twins when they were babies. Alexis, a lot of
28:48
Speaker 1: people say that. A lot of people, you know, get
28:50
Speaker 1: rid of their animals when they have a baby. They
28:52
Speaker 1: tell you, we we have dogs to take something home
28:55
Speaker 1: from the hospital when the baby is born. You know
28:57
Speaker 1: there you have four million blankets and hats in the hospital.
29:00
Speaker 1: Take that home, let the dogs smell it. That's what
29:03
Speaker 1: we had to do with our dogs. So this little
29:05
Speaker 1: baby has been in the home for three months and
29:08
Speaker 1: grandma leaves the room, the dogs come in attack her.
29:12
Speaker 1: The police were called. They say that they do not
29:16
Speaker 1: know which dog it is they're taking d n A.
29:19
Speaker 1: They took all three dogs out of the home immediately.
29:21
Speaker 1: They're taking DNA from the dogs to determine which one
29:24
Speaker 1: was responsible for the attack. They had enough evidence obviously,
29:28
Speaker 1: all over this baby, and they feel like they can
29:31
Speaker 1: determine it by d NA. M M a ninety ninety
29:35
Speaker 1: eight pound rot wil Or, an eighty nine pound labrador,
29:39
Speaker 1: and a tin pound terrier, all family pets at Grandma's
29:42
Speaker 1: home to Vincent Hill, private investigator joining us. Former p
29:46
Speaker 1: D also with me our special guest, doctor Gray Stafford.
29:50
Speaker 1: I met him during the Jodi Arias trial. He was
29:54
Speaker 1: then the director of the conservation at the Wildlife World
29:57
Speaker 1: Zoo and Aquarium in Phoenix. Vincent Hill. Uh, I'm looking
30:02
Speaker 1: right now at the Grandma's house and Vincent When you
30:06
Speaker 1: hear things like that, it's easy to say, oh, these
30:08
Speaker 1: are those crazy dog people that would let their dogs
30:11
Speaker 1: run through the house. This is a beautiful neighborhood. If
30:15
Speaker 1: you look at Grandma's home, it's perfectly and immaculately kept.
30:21
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. So what I'm trying to say is, don't
30:26
Speaker 1: try and distance yourself from these people. It's easy to
30:30
Speaker 1: do that. I think it makes us feel better because
30:33
Speaker 1: we go, oh, that would never happen to me, but
30:36
Speaker 1: this is a really nice neighborhood with a loving grandmother. Yeah,
30:40
Speaker 1: and Nancy, it could happen anywhere. And you know, when
30:42
Speaker 1: my son was first born, we actually had a Rottweiler
30:46
Speaker 1: and one of the things I did, I took two
30:48
Speaker 1: blankets before we even brought him home. So the rottweiler,
30:51
Speaker 1: Roth was his name, could actually smell the blankets and
30:54
Speaker 1: get used to a sin. But what I learned as
30:56
Speaker 1: my son got older and could start to crawl and walk,
30:59
Speaker 1: you know, willers are very strong, they're very playful at
31:02
Speaker 1: the same time, so what appears to be aggression is
31:06
Speaker 1: sometimes the route whiler playing roughly. So what we had
31:09
Speaker 1: to do was get rid of Rock and we got
31:11
Speaker 1: two German shepherds because you know, Rock was just a
31:15
Speaker 1: very brute of a dog and he would, you know,
31:17
Speaker 1: knock my son around. So it was we made that decision, Hey,
31:21
Speaker 1: we need to get rid of Rock, and we got
31:23
Speaker 1: German shepherds who never touched my son. Okay, now hold
31:26
Speaker 1: on inviscent, walk me through that again. You got rid
31:30
Speaker 1: of your Rottwiler because why because as my son was
31:34
Speaker 1: able to start crawling around and moving around. You know,
31:37
Speaker 1: any certain sound or a laugh or a cry rot
31:40
Speaker 1: would kind of like go up to him head bon him.
31:44
Speaker 1: You know. It was just like, did you say head
31:48
Speaker 1: butt him? Head butt him? Am I hearing correctly? I
31:51
Speaker 1: don't know if it was him checking to see if
31:53
Speaker 1: my son was okay, or maybe thinking he was playing
31:56
Speaker 1: with my son. But you know, when you're pound dog
31:59
Speaker 1: and have this six month old crawling around on the floor,
32:02
Speaker 1: that's not something you definitely want to keep up with.
32:06
Speaker 1: So we had to get rid of okay. You know, Vincent,
32:10
Speaker 1: I hope that you did not have the dog euthanized,
32:13
Speaker 1: but I'm glad you got the dog away from the baby.
32:16
Speaker 1: To Dr Gray Stafford, physiologist, author of Zumility Positive Reinforcement Trainer,
32:24
Speaker 1: formally the director of Conservation at Wildlife World, Zoo and Phoenix,
32:30
Speaker 1: I don't really know how to verbalize this, Gray, but
32:33
Speaker 1: you know me well enough to know the point I'm
32:35
Speaker 1: trying to make. I'm not trying to vilify rock Wilers
32:40
Speaker 1: or um any other breed of dog. And this is
32:45
Speaker 1: not a statistic. This is anecdotal. Gray Stafford. I have
32:50
Speaker 1: covered so many cases where Rottweiler's in particular, Um, a
32:58
Speaker 1: few others how attacked people. And I don't understand why
33:04
Speaker 1: no one wants to admit that this is true. Certain
33:07
Speaker 1: breeds of dog are not as safe as others. Well,
33:11
Speaker 1: I would agree with you that certain breeds of dog
33:14
Speaker 1: have the the ability to inflict serious harm or worse right,
33:18
Speaker 1: because of their size, their strength, because of what they've
33:20
Speaker 1: been bred for over the eons. Um. But to me,
33:24
Speaker 1: it goes back to how the animals are trained. How
33:27
Speaker 1: are they prepared or not in the case of this
33:30
Speaker 1: baby or other families. As you said, this is a
33:32
Speaker 1: nice looking home, but it goes down to preparation, and
33:35
Speaker 1: like any great you know, I love you Gray deeply, deeply,
33:42
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't know how you can say
33:44
Speaker 1: it's all about training, because you don't hear if training
33:49
Speaker 1: is equal across the board, why isn't it Um a
33:55
Speaker 1: labradoodle or a Dockson or a German shepherd heard or
34:00
Speaker 1: even a Debriman pinch or really scary looking Sometimes they're
34:04
Speaker 1: not the ones attacking babies and killing them and adults
34:08
Speaker 1: and their owners. It's always these two breeds, pit bulls
34:12
Speaker 1: and rott Wiler's it can't be just the training, Gray
34:16
Speaker 1: That that's statistically impossible. Some of it has to do
34:20
Speaker 1: with the popularity of the breed, because if you look
34:22
Speaker 1: at the number of dog bites in the in the US,
34:24
Speaker 1: for example, the leading breed for dog bites are chihuahua's,
34:28
Speaker 1: and yet they're probably not likely to cause death. It's
34:31
Speaker 1: the behavior is the same that the drives for those
34:34
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, Gray, Gray, Grey, Greg, that's a
34:37
Speaker 1: blanket statement. A dog bite from a chihuahua does what?
34:41
Speaker 1: What makes you spray the back teen on it and
34:43
Speaker 1: go about your business? Put a little um emog band
34:47
Speaker 1: aid on it. Maybe a bite from a chihuahua is
34:51
Speaker 1: a lot different from a bite from a pit bull. Okay,
34:54
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna turn the tables on you,
34:55
Speaker 1: Dr Gray Stafford. All right, I'll give you your statistic.
34:59
Speaker 1: The it's typically a chihuahua that does a little nipping.
35:03
Speaker 1: But what dog most often kills a human? What about that?
35:09
Speaker 1: Dr Gray Stafford, Well, there's several at the top, I mean,
35:12
Speaker 1: certainly large breeds like Rottweiler's, pitbull varieties, German shepherds, um
35:19
Speaker 1: there are other large breeds that that caused problems. But
35:22
Speaker 1: to me, as you said earlier, you're not trying to
35:25
Speaker 1: demonize a certain breed, and neither am I. It has
35:27
Speaker 1: to do with training, and it has to do with
35:29
Speaker 1: the consequences of a large animal. The training your back
35:33
Speaker 1: on the track again. I just don't think you can
35:36
Speaker 1: chalk it up to training. These are very aggressive animals,
35:40
Speaker 1: and hey, you want to have a rottweiler, you want
35:42
Speaker 1: to have a pitbull, have at it. But number one,
35:46
Speaker 1: keep them away from my children. And you're at Vincent
35:51
Speaker 1: Hill he had one and their playful dog started head
35:56
Speaker 1: butting the baby, so he moved it out of the home.
35:59
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I get exhausted and emotionally drained by
36:05
Speaker 1: seeing one child after the next killed by a pit
36:09
Speaker 1: bull or a rottweiler. All right, go ahead, pit bull
36:12
Speaker 1: rottweiler lovers hate me. I'm just telling you the way.
36:17
Speaker 1: It is. A mom found dead, Rebecca Becky apodaca in
36:25
Speaker 1: an attack, so brutal autopsy photos are not fit for
36:30
Speaker 1: public viewing. What happened to Becky? And how does ben
36:36
Speaker 1: a drill fit into the scenario? Alexas Torres Chuck writer
36:40
Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter I've given my children been
36:44
Speaker 1: a drill. How does ben a drill fit into a
36:47
Speaker 1: scenario wheream where a mom is found brutally attacked and
36:52
Speaker 1: is dead. So this mom works from home. Her twenty
36:55
Speaker 1: year old son actually lives with her. She was not
36:58
Speaker 1: hurt from one day. She always checks into work. She
37:01
Speaker 1: works home from home. Didn't check into work, didn't start working,
37:04
Speaker 1: didn't respond text messages from friends, her supervisors, her daughter.
37:09
Speaker 1: Nobody hears from her all day. So her daughter shows
37:12
Speaker 1: up in the afternoon. Late afternoon, shows up at her apartment,
37:16
Speaker 1: goes in the house, finds her mom beaten to a
37:20
Speaker 1: bloody pulp with a hammer, just blood everywhere. She's on
37:26
Speaker 1: her bed and she finds her brother twenty six years
37:30
Speaker 1: old in the closet, hiding hiding in the closet, and
37:34
Speaker 1: he is completely naked, is babbling incoherently. He has he
37:41
Speaker 1: has slit his own throat, his wrist slip, but he
37:43
Speaker 1: is still alive. She calls the police. The police come,
37:48
Speaker 1: They find the murder weapon in the apartment, They find
37:51
Speaker 1: the hammer, They find the knife the brothers used. They
37:54
Speaker 1: actually find the floor is the apartment is completely soaked
37:59
Speaker 1: in blood. They find a toaster in the sink as
38:03
Speaker 1: covered in water, as if maybe somebody was trying to
38:05
Speaker 1: electrocute themselves. That's all covered with blood. They search, they
38:09
Speaker 1: can't find any reason. They literally see two little pills
38:15
Speaker 1: on the floor and they think maybe this has something
38:18
Speaker 1: to do with it. They take the pills. They take them,
38:21
Speaker 1: they test them, their Benadryl anti allergy antihistamine medicine, and
38:26
Speaker 1: they realize they find they find packaging that this man
38:30
Speaker 1: took one hundred allergy pills. Joining me White Now Dr
38:35
Speaker 1: William Maroney, renowned medical examiner. Dr Maroney, what is the
38:42
Speaker 1: active ingredient in benadryl and what effect will it have
38:46
Speaker 1: on a person? Benadryl is a brand name. The generic
38:49
Speaker 1: name the active chemical the medicine is dife and hydramine.
38:56
Speaker 1: Dife and hydramine has been used for or decades and
39:02
Speaker 1: it is predominantly for allergies. It's an antihistamine, So if
39:08
Speaker 1: you get something that causes an allergic reaction to swelling
39:12
Speaker 1: and itching, diaphene hydramine is available as a cream. It's
39:17
Speaker 1: available as a pill and in the hospital in the
39:20
Speaker 1: emergency room or in UH surgery or I see you
39:25
Speaker 1: it's available as an injection, but it's always capped out
39:29
Speaker 1: around fifty milligrams, and the generical over the counter version
39:32
Speaker 1: is twenty five milligrams, and it's safe when taken the
39:41
Speaker 1: doses that are marketed and sold, and the instructions are
39:47
Speaker 1: to be followed with those doses. Dr Maroney, what would
39:52
Speaker 1: do to a person. I have seen the effects of
39:54
Speaker 1: taking thirty to forty diaphin hydramine somebody who kept forgetting
39:59
Speaker 1: that they took some, and took more, and then took more,
40:02
Speaker 1: and she became delirious. She was having auditory and visual hallucinations.
40:11
Speaker 1: Because the key structure in the chemistry of dieph and
40:16
Speaker 1: hydramine is that's a it's a phenol. Ethylamine is very
40:20
Speaker 1: similar to a method phetamine, very similar, and at high
40:28
Speaker 1: doses you overwhelmed the brain. When it's designed to be
40:32
Speaker 1: taken as twenty five milligrams over the counter or fifty
40:35
Speaker 1: milligrams prescription, and then suddenly eight pills are tablets. You've
40:42
Speaker 1: got over two thousand milligrams on something that you should take,
40:49
Speaker 1: you will have hallucinations. My patient was hearing seeing and
40:55
Speaker 1: talking to dead people in her family from her past
41:00
Speaker 1: and she was doing it in my presence and I said,
41:04
Speaker 1: you're taking way too much of this. You need to
41:07
Speaker 1: back down. And she would turn around and turn to
41:11
Speaker 1: the side where there was nobody and ask them questions.
41:16
Speaker 1: And I said, who are you talking to? And she said, well,
41:19
Speaker 1: this is so and so, but they're dead, so you
41:22
Speaker 1: don't know them. And she was seeing and talking to
41:26
Speaker 1: dead people at those high doses. Dr Maroney, what would
41:29
Speaker 1: one peals due to a person? It would push you
41:32
Speaker 1: further into psychosis, at drug induced psychosis where you were
41:39
Speaker 1: absolutely not in reality with the physical things around you
41:45
Speaker 1: would you might not hear or respond to the people,
41:48
Speaker 1: and you would be driven by um these hallucinations at
41:55
Speaker 1: such a strong and pathological level, the it is known
42:00
Speaker 1: as a deliriant. At that level, a delirium and a
42:04
Speaker 1: medicine that causes delirium. Okay, wow. The mother is found
42:11
Speaker 1: dead in a blood soaked bed. Uh there in the
42:16
Speaker 1: apartment that she shared with her son. The mom is
42:20
Speaker 1: actually pretty young. She must have had him at a
42:22
Speaker 1: young age. Benadril is a name for a substance used
42:29
Speaker 1: as Alex has told you to treat allergies. Now, this guy,
42:32
Speaker 1: twenty six year old McGhee as found as Alexis told you,
42:37
Speaker 1: buck naked hiding in the closet. Now, according to his lawyers,
42:43
Speaker 1: murder is different from killing. Hm hmm. Interesting that they
42:50
Speaker 1: make that differentiation. We don't know when exactly he attacked
42:54
Speaker 1: his mother, but we know that around eight am that
42:58
Speaker 1: day she the mom Becky had felt to like in
43:02
Speaker 1: and her at home medical billing job, and all day
43:06
Speaker 1: long she never responded to messages from friends, her family,
43:10
Speaker 1: her supervisor at work. So at eight a m. There's
43:14
Speaker 1: already trouble. Sounds like it happened sometime during the night.
43:18
Speaker 1: Then Becky misses dinner plans and her daughter stops by
43:23
Speaker 1: to check on mom. Six thirty pm, she finds her
43:28
Speaker 1: mom dead on a blood soaked bed in the bedroom closet.
43:34
Speaker 1: Was the brother babbling. The daughter calls nine one one,
43:39
Speaker 1: and when firefighters get there, Becky was still lying there
43:44
Speaker 1: and McGhee was lying on the floor, half in the bedroom,
43:48
Speaker 1: halfway in the bathroom. His eyes bugged out and his
43:52
Speaker 1: pupils dilated, His legs were shaking, he couldn't walk, according
43:57
Speaker 1: to the prosecutor. In inside the apartment, as Alexis was
44:02
Speaker 1: telling us, police find knives. Two knives are found in
44:06
Speaker 1: a blood smeared bathtub and a bloody toaster in the sink.
44:13
Speaker 1: The rug was soaked with water. In the kitchen, investigators
44:19
Speaker 1: find a bottle of generic allergy medicine except for one peel,
44:24
Speaker 1: empty but for one peel stuck near the edge, and
44:28
Speaker 1: two on the floor. What do you make Dr Moroney
44:32
Speaker 1: of the physical symptoms his eyes quote bugged up, hiding
44:36
Speaker 1: into closet, naked, superficial scratches to his body. I would
44:42
Speaker 1: say that they're hyper vigilant, fearful, and paranoid, and these
44:48
Speaker 1: are all things that you can get in hallucinations with delirium.
44:52
Speaker 1: It makes total sense, and that's why we need to
44:57
Speaker 1: control these medications and regular screening by primary care doctors
45:03
Speaker 1: and poison control centers to make sure that they're not
45:06
Speaker 1: taken at those really high pathological levels. Okay with me,
45:11
Speaker 1: Forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Let's look at the scene,
45:16
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. We've got the bloody toaster, which makes its
45:20
Speaker 1: occurred after he had stabbed her at least once. Bloody
45:26
Speaker 1: toaster in a sink, which means he had unplugged it
45:31
Speaker 1: and moved it possibly plugged it back in again. Was
45:35
Speaker 1: he trying to electrocute his mother? Was he trying to
45:37
Speaker 1: electrocute himself? Two knives, bloody in the bathtub, the bathtub
45:44
Speaker 1: covered in blood. What do you make of it? Joseph
45:48
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Well, there's gonna be this kind of, you know,
45:52
Speaker 1: homicidal dance that would have taken place. We can hopefully
45:56
Speaker 1: they have gone back and reconstructed the scene using the
45:59
Speaker 1: sm ters, the spatters. Everything is connected. Let's go back
46:03
Speaker 1: to the toaster. We're assuming that he he used that
46:08
Speaker 1: toaster or he he came and he may have used
46:11
Speaker 1: that to electrocuter. But what if he initiated the attack
46:15
Speaker 1: with the toaster itself and got blood on it by
46:18
Speaker 1: bludging it. I'm just saying, the weapon of opportunity you're
46:21
Speaker 1: talking about an event is very up close and personal.
46:24
Speaker 1: We've got bloody knives and we've got a bloody hammer
46:27
Speaker 1: as well. Um yeah, hold on, that's important to me
46:31
Speaker 1: that he would have the wherewithal to seek out multiple
46:35
Speaker 1: weapons too, knives and a hammer, because I know that
46:38
Speaker 1: she Becky had been struck at least ten times in
46:42
Speaker 1: a four by four inch area in the center of
46:45
Speaker 1: her face, going straight for her face with a hammer
46:50
Speaker 1: and two knives. Go ahead. Yeah, And that's the thing
46:53
Speaker 1: about it, Nancy, when over the course of my career,
46:55
Speaker 1: when you when you work these bludgeoning kind of cases
46:58
Speaker 1: like this, it's very difficult many times because you have
47:03
Speaker 1: overlapping injuries to appreciate what the origin of some of
47:07
Speaker 1: these things are. And also you you couple that with
47:11
Speaker 1: sharp force injuries. Now, I've got a scenario in mind here,
47:15
Speaker 1: and I can address that as we go along. But
47:18
Speaker 1: I think that the bathtub is going to play a
47:21
Speaker 1: key in here. I'm wondering if at some point Tom
47:24
Speaker 1: he didn't make some kind of effort to clean her
47:27
Speaker 1: in some way or to clean himself. What's really going
47:31
Speaker 1: to be important here is to see from a serological
47:35
Speaker 1: standpoint as well as from perspective of DNA, to see
47:40
Speaker 1: whose blood is contained in that bathtub? Um, he apparently
47:45
Speaker 1: attempted self harm here. Did he do it to himself?
47:49
Speaker 1: Or is the blood coach? Wait a minute, wait a minute,
47:51
Speaker 1: attempted self harm? Why is it? Lauren Howard New York
47:57
Speaker 1: Psychologists that the mom I was, She's dead. She's dead
48:01
Speaker 1: ten times over. She's stabbed multiple times, she's beat in
48:04
Speaker 1: the face with a hammer. Can you imagine the pain
48:07
Speaker 1: she endured, the velocity with which he hit her. And
48:11
Speaker 1: then he's got a couple of scratches. It sounds like
48:13
Speaker 1: he murdered her and then put scratches on himself. That's
48:17
Speaker 1: not trying to kill yourself. Well, you know, this benadryl
48:20
Speaker 1: thing has me haunted because, first of all, uh, you know,
48:24
Speaker 1: we're saying this occurred perhaps in the night or at
48:27
Speaker 1: least early in the morning. They discover it in the evening.
48:31
Speaker 1: They do a toxicology on him and find the benadryl
48:34
Speaker 1: levels in his blood. When did he take the benegrl?
48:37
Speaker 1: Did he take it before or after? I think that's
48:40
Speaker 1: fat in this case, Frankly, I mean, I think that's
48:44
Speaker 1: sort of the whole ball of way. Why do you
48:46
Speaker 1: say that explained to me your reasoning, because if he
48:50
Speaker 1: took the benadryl after, it says, oh my god, what
48:53
Speaker 1: have I done? You know, let me hurt myself, let
48:56
Speaker 1: me kill myself. You don't take a hundred benadryl to
48:58
Speaker 1: get high, Okay, I mean that's a you're looking to
49:02
Speaker 1: take a lethal dose of whatever is available, and bena
49:05
Speaker 1: drill happen to be available. That's a whole different scenario.
49:08
Speaker 1: I'm not excusing it, but it's a whole different scenario
49:11
Speaker 1: from what his his defense attorneys are saying, which is,
49:15
Speaker 1: you know that the benadrill caused him to go crazy
49:18
Speaker 1: and kill his mother. Yeah, hey, totally different. Yeah, Nancy,
49:22
Speaker 1: I gotta say here that what's really curious, as the
49:25
Speaker 1: doctor was saying, what's really curious to me is that
49:28
Speaker 1: when they found him, he was in this kind of
49:31
Speaker 1: shocky state where he's vibrating, he's in the closet, all
49:34
Speaker 1: this sort of thing. My thought is is that if
49:38
Speaker 1: he had taken this prior to the event, I think
49:41
Speaker 1: that shoots a real big hole in the defense's case.
49:43
Speaker 1: If he had taken this prior to the event, he
49:46
Speaker 1: would have had time for this Bena drill to begin
49:48
Speaker 1: to have metabolized out of his system. She makes the
49:51
Speaker 1: point that his levels were really high. That's why I
49:55
Speaker 1: think that what this is going to come down to.
49:57
Speaker 1: Did the medical examine the corner, go out there and
50:00
Speaker 1: make an assessment of post mortem interval on the mother?
50:03
Speaker 1: Were they able to do a body temperature assess? Libra
50:06
Speaker 1: mortis is settling of the blood and the degree to
50:09
Speaker 1: which rider Mortis was set in because the timeframe here
50:12
Speaker 1: is gonna be critical, particularly as it goes to this
50:15
Speaker 1: point that the defense is trying to make. Yeah, he
50:17
Speaker 1: took a handful of bena drill, he went, you know,
50:19
Speaker 1: he went on the crazy wagon and killed his mom. Listen,
50:23
Speaker 1: there are people that have psychotic breaks. It's been documented
50:26
Speaker 1: with diafe and hydromine. It's really dangerous when you mix
50:29
Speaker 1: dife and hydromine with something like like xan x. But
50:33
Speaker 1: to say that he he took bena drill, want nuts
50:36
Speaker 1: and killed his mom in this violent way, I'm not
50:39
Speaker 1: buying it. I'm not buying it for a second. Well,
50:42
Speaker 1: a typsychology screening shows that the levels of diafe and
50:47
Speaker 1: hydramine were so high he could have taken one hundred
50:53
Speaker 1: or more at twenty five milligrams appeal one hundred or more.
50:57
Speaker 1: Where do you even get that much bena drill? Uh?
51:00
Speaker 1: Dr Maroney? Is it possible to look at the toxicology
51:05
Speaker 1: reports on the defendant, the twenty six year old son
51:09
Speaker 1: and determined when he took the bena drill. What I'm
51:12
Speaker 1: getting at, Dr Maroney is what if he killed his
51:14
Speaker 1: mother and then try to o d on ben a drill. Well,
51:18
Speaker 1: you can tell if somebody took a lot of those
51:21
Speaker 1: pills right away, then they only have the parent compound
51:26
Speaker 1: in them, But if they were taken over a longer
51:30
Speaker 1: period of time that goes back in the past, they
51:33
Speaker 1: will have the metabolism products in them, because like all drugs,
51:43
Speaker 1: like all medicines, like all chemicals, the body metabolizes them.
51:47
Speaker 1: So high levels of metabolites and low levels of parent
51:53
Speaker 1: compound would put you out. Saying that this may have
51:57
Speaker 1: been days ago, been a drill of the brand name
51:59
Speaker 1: for a dipe and hydramine used to treat allergies. So
52:04
Speaker 1: my question to you, um, what difference does it make
52:08
Speaker 1: to you, Joseph Scott Morgan that Becky Apodaca had been
52:14
Speaker 1: dead for hours and hours before she was found dead
52:18
Speaker 1: in a bloody bed, What does that mean to you? Well?
52:21
Speaker 1: What that what that tells me, Nancy, is that, uh,
52:25
Speaker 1: if they if they had an indication they that number
52:28
Speaker 1: is coming from somebody you're saying hours and hours, That
52:31
Speaker 1: means that they've done a post wardom assessment of her
52:34
Speaker 1: at the scene. This is gonna be really hard if
52:37
Speaker 1: if they can get a toxicologist on the stand in
52:40
Speaker 1: this case to talk about how ben a drill metabolizes
52:44
Speaker 1: through the system, and if they're wise, they'll do this
52:47
Speaker 1: and they'll talk about how just imagine a gigantic arc
52:50
Speaker 1: a bell curve, if you will, you take it initially,
52:53
Speaker 1: it begins to ramp up, and then as your body
52:56
Speaker 1: begins to push this stuff out of your system, it
52:58
Speaker 1: dips down. If he's at that peak, tom Wise say,
53:02
Speaker 1: they say that it peaks at two hours down range, Well,
53:05
Speaker 1: she's been dead now thirteen hours. Those two timelines are
53:09
Speaker 1: going to have to superimpose over one another for the
53:12
Speaker 1: defenses case to make sense. And right now it doesn't
53:15
Speaker 1: sound like it does. Who would imagine that a generic
53:18
Speaker 1: bottle of in history could end in a murder like this.
53:22
Speaker 1: The timing is important. When did this happen? How long
53:27
Speaker 1: had he been in the closet? Did he take the
53:29
Speaker 1: bene jul after the murder? Can we tell that? Can
53:34
Speaker 1: we tell that? Joseph Scott Morgan, Yeah, I think that.
53:37
Speaker 1: I think that there's a possibility that they can if
53:39
Speaker 1: they have Uh, this is this is curious to me.
53:43
Speaker 1: We hear about toxicology in the dead quite often, you know,
53:47
Speaker 1: and it's just something that standard to standard. The Morgue.
53:51
Speaker 1: I find it interesting that because that based upon the
53:54
Speaker 1: way he was behaving at the scene, that they drew
53:57
Speaker 1: talks on this guy, they held onto his blood, which
54:00
Speaker 1: on the part of the of the police was very
54:03
Speaker 1: very uh wise, and then they ran talks on him.
54:07
Speaker 1: They connected that back to the pills that they found
54:09
Speaker 1: on the floor. And what's really cool about this, Nancy,
54:13
Speaker 1: is that they're going to be able to say they're
54:15
Speaker 1: gonna give a timeline not just with the body, but
54:18
Speaker 1: also with this mina drill, and they're gonna have people
54:21
Speaker 1: that are gonna come in and testify that uh that, look,
54:25
Speaker 1: he took this sometime after she was dead. That's that's
54:28
Speaker 1: a pretty accurate marker. You know. Most people think that
54:31
Speaker 1: in death investigation we can say, oh wow, yeah, I
54:35
Speaker 1: can I can nail it down to a fifteen minute
54:37
Speaker 1: time period. There is no way, but you get out.
54:40
Speaker 1: We can kind of particularly this close to the lethal event,
54:44
Speaker 1: we can look back and sometimes we can nail it
54:47
Speaker 1: about three or four hours. That's a big gap for us,
54:50
Speaker 1: and that's a that's a target that's easy to hit,
54:52
Speaker 1: particularly when you have this other marker of the toxicology
54:56
Speaker 1: examples that they took on him after they took him
54:58
Speaker 1: into custody, telling you it'll be a torpedo to the
55:01
Speaker 1: defense if it turns out he murdered his mother and
55:06
Speaker 1: then try to o d on ben A drill, which
55:09
Speaker 1: may have been the only thing he could get his
55:11
Speaker 1: hands on. Think about it, that changes everything. If he
55:16
Speaker 1: murdered her first and then took the ben A drill,
55:21
Speaker 1: that's an analysis I would make. There's a lot of
55:23
Speaker 1: physical evidence here you've got to take into account to
55:26
Speaker 1: piece together the timeline. Eight. She was dead at eight am,
55:30
Speaker 1: eight in the morning, which means this occurred who knows
55:33
Speaker 1: during the night, during the early morning hours. We've got
55:36
Speaker 1: to establish when she was last known to be alive,
55:39
Speaker 1: the day or the night before. Then based on his blood,
55:43
Speaker 1: his toxicology, we've got to try to figure out if possible,
55:47
Speaker 1: maybe there's another way to do it. Maybe he was texting,
55:50
Speaker 1: maybe he was emailing. Um, there's a million ways you
55:55
Speaker 1: can show what was happening in the home leading up
55:58
Speaker 1: to Becky's murder. But they've got a piece together that,
56:01
Speaker 1: along with the bloody toaster, the wet the soaking wet
56:07
Speaker 1: floor rug, the two knives, bloody, the bloody bathtub, the
56:12
Speaker 1: mom in the bed, was she dressed, was she naked?
56:15
Speaker 1: Did you haven't her PJ? Did you have her close
56:17
Speaker 1: with the day before? All of this will factor in,
56:20
Speaker 1: and then, of course his blood, the toxicology may be
56:23
Speaker 1: able to reveal when he took the Bene dril, or
56:27
Speaker 1: maybe he told the police when he took the ben
56:30
Speaker 1: and drill. Maybe we even have a purchase of ben
56:33
Speaker 1: and Drill at a certain time. Who knows what the
56:36
Speaker 1: facts will reveal. This is all going down in the Vista,
56:39
Speaker 1: California courtroom right now, and we are on it. You
56:43
Speaker 1: want to hear the latest, log on to crime online
56:46
Speaker 1: dot com to find out what exactly is going down
56:49
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. But I know this voluntary use of
56:53
Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol is not a defense. Otherwise, everybody in
56:58
Speaker 1: the jail house right now say I was high, I'm
57:00
Speaker 1: Ben and Jerill, and walk free to attack more innocent victims.
57:05
Speaker 1: Let's see what lady justice unfolds in a court of law.
57:09
Speaker 1: I mean, see, Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you
57:13
Speaker 1: for being with us. Goodbye, friend.