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Transcript

Two Bryans talking about a Henry · Movie Meltdown

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, you bozos out there, this is Stephen Kioto and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: you're listening to Movie Meltdown.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: The following feature has been rated R by the Motion
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: and parental discretion is advised.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: It's showtime, folks.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: Enjoy the show.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Our nuclear reactor pumping out one.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Million kilowatts of power.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown, I'm Brian and
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: with me this week, special guest Brian. They're like, it's
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: another one of his schizophrenic episodes or something.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: And Brian with a Y, which is so rare.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, I've had this... First of all,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: you spell it right. I've had this argument. I was like,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: is it better that you run into one with an I?
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Because then I've had somebody bring up, maybe you can't
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: exist in the same universe. It makes you different enough
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: you don't cancel out your own existence and create a wormhole.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: When I asked my mother when I was young, I
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: was like, why did you name me Brian? Because it's
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: such a common name. And she's like, well, I spelled
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: it with a Y to make you special. Special.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I've gotten special all my life.
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: That Y has carried me so far in life.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Well, it's funny that you say that now it's common.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: That's why my mom gave me that, she said, is
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: because at the time, back a million years ago when
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: both of us were born... there were no Bryans. Like
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: she was like, I did not know a Brian. And
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: by the time I got to grade school, there were
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: four in first grade. So that generation, it just like hit.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: And like, everybody was like, yeah, Brian, that's a great idea.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: And now dorks everywhere are called Brian.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: And we're outsiders really, because everyone else spells it with
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: an I. So in a way they sort of stigmatized
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: us and marked us for life.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: They're doing it wrong. That's, that's all there is to it.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: So I try to at least kind of ease my
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: way in here. Usually when I talk to people in
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the industry, I'll be like, how did you get there?
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: You seem like you came through a side door. I
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: guess you have to from Highlands, right? You have to
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: kind of fight your way to get into whatever you're doing, basically.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I wasn't like Jonah Hill, who was born in
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: Hollywood or L.A. or whatever. Yeah, we grew up in Highlands.
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: By we, I mean me, Kevin, Muse, and Walt. And
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: it was mostly like people would clam because it's right
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: on the river in the Atlantic Ocean. And people would
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: either clam or they did like housing improvements, like contracting stuff.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: Like those were the two main things people went into.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Great jobs.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And I, I couldn't imagine doing either. So I
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: had no idea what I was going to do.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: You don't want to be a clammer.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: I don't, I get seasick. My father was a contractor
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: and I used to help him from time to time.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, this is so boring. As I got
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: older and became a homeowner, I was like, I wish
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: I had paid more attention.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It becomes useful then.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: Right. But, um, When we were, God, I guess Kevin
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: was 20, which would have made me 22 or something.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: You know, he went to the Vancouver film school and
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: he's like, I'm going to make a movie.
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: And.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: I have to admit, we were like, sure, you're going
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: to make a movie. Of course you are.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, did that kind of stuff ever occur? Because
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: at that time, you were already, like, 22. Like, in
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: high school, did any of that stuff? You know, I
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: want to be in the theater. I know Kevin was, but, like,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: you weren't involved in any of that end of it?
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: No, I wasn't in the drama club. I was the
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: guy that, like, I played basketball, and I would look
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: in the stands, and Kevin would be recording me playing
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: basketball because he was in the AV thing. He's the
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: tech geek, you know. Right.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: So....
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: I had no, I mean, I wrote a lot in
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: school and went to a local community college a little bit.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: Kevin and I took writing classes together and criminal justice
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: for some reason, because we were into Batman at the time,
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: so we took criminal justice.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Of course, that's the tie.
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: But right after that, we were supposed to go to UMass,
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: and he bailed, and I don't like doing things without him, so.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: I bailed six months after I went there. And I
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: lived in Dorchester, which I had no idea was like
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: Southie and a real dangerous area and all that shit.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: So I just walked around, but I guess I looked
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: Irish enough that nobody really cared. Came back. I had
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: gone to, actually before that, I went to LA for
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: a little while for guitar. There's a guitar Institute of technology.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: And the very first day I was there, I, was
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: walking down Sunset Boulevard, and I saw all these emergency vehicles,
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: and I was like, oh my God, they're making a movie,
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: because of course that's all they do in Hollywood. And
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: I ran down there to see what was going on,
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: and there's a lady maybe five or six stories up
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: on a ledge. And I'm looking around, and I don't
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: see any cameras, and the lady just launches off the building. Suicide.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: First day.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I'm there.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: That really sets things in motion there. How it's going
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: to go in LA.
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: And this was probably, I guess it was like around
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: 88 or so, maybe 89. And, um, that was like
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: when crack hit real big.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: In, uh, New York and LA. And I mean, there
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: were just like people get murdered right and left. There's a,
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: have you ever been to LA? No. There's a place, uh,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: Hollywood and Highland, which is their version of Times Square
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: kind of. And, um, if you remember Times Square from
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: like the late 80s, I mean the early 80s, like late.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: 70s, early 80s.
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: The nightmare that it was. Yeah, it was. Like, you know,
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: prostitutes and crime and all this other stuff. That's what
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: Hollywood and Highland was like back then. So it was
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: just like everywhere. And down at the end of Orange Street,
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: I think it is, is Hollywood High School. And there's
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: a track and some dude was on the track running
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: around and a couple gang members like disemboweled him for
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: What appeared to be no reason, according to the papers.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: And I was like, you know what? This is too
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: much of a culture shock for some clam boy coming
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: out of Highlands.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Highlands is a little more calm and relaxed.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: So I came back to the East Coast. And then
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: Kevin and I did the Brookdale thing. Then we were
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: supposed to go to UMass. And then he said, I'm
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: going to film school. And then we made fun of him.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: And then he came back.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: And you're still making fun of him.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: Yet getting paid for it now, which is not bad. Yeah.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Well, then I guess, I mean, as he got into it,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: did you start sort of seeing like, well, maybe this
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: is something because, you know, eventually you end up making
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a film and working on writing and stuff like that.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: So is it just because you saw that window in
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: now and you're like, well, this does kind of look
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: like something I could do.
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: I've always just kind of fallen into things. I've never
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: set my sights on anything. I have very little ambition.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: So if like an opportunity is presented, I'm like, oh, yeah, sure,
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: I'll do that. Unless it's something that sucks, you know.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: You got to take those.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: Or somebody's like, hey, do you want to be a
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: getaway driver, you know, or something like that.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: What's the cut?
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: But we both, like, he asked to borrow my car
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: one day. He said, I'm going to go apply for
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: a job at this video store. And I said, all right.
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: So he went, he got the job, and that was
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: RST Video. And it wasn't long after that that he said, hey,
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: they need another guy. So I was like, all right. Again,
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: falling into, you know, whatever. Like, sure, I'll work at
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: a video store. Why not? And so we started working
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: at RST and QuickStop, which, you know, are featured in
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: Clerks fairly prominently.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: And we did that for a few years, and then
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: he decided to make Clerks.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: So you didn't want to be yourself in this interpretation
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: of it?
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: No.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: No, well, he said often that he based the Randall
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: character on me. I wouldn't have wanted to be Randall
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: because I think, honestly, Jeff Anderson did a way better
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: job than I.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Ever could have. He's amazing. Like, yeah, I tried to
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: picture how different it would be because his performance is so...
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: And again, the fact that he wasn't really an actor
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: maybe is why it's so good because there's a difference
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: between him and, like, the handful of other people who were, like, acting.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: he's so natural. Like it's ridiculous how good he is.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: He's very, very good.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: And Kevin and I were like, we were sort of
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: like in a tiff at the time. So I, that's
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: why I didn't work at work on clerks. And, um,
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: but I would drive by from time to time, like,
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: you know, right by the store, just check out what
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: they were doing and stuff.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: Talk to Walt, you know, about how it was going
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: and stuff. And the strangest thing is that we were
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: in such a tip. We wouldn't even speak to each other,
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: but he would come to the recreation center where Walt
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: and I worked and And we would play foosball, but
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: we wouldn't talk to each other. Yeah, it was like
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: just such dickhead, you know, ego stuff.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're still kids.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: And then he went to this seminar. It was called
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: The Forum, and it was all about, I don't know,
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: sort of like a Tony Robbins type thing. And out
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: of nowhere one day, I mean, it was probably close
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: to a year that we hadn't spoken, he called me.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: And I got really like, you know when you think
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: something bad happened and you get that weird feeling inside? Yeah.
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: He called me. He was like, hey, Big, it's Kev.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: And I was like, oh, no. I still felt like, oh,
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: my God, something bad happened.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Like that's the only reason that would make him call me,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: something horrible.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, I need to help him out with something.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: And it just turned out you were like one of
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: the assignments was you need to call somebody that you
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: don't feel like calling. So he called me, and then
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: from then on we just started talking again. That's cool. And, yeah,
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: then he was like, hey, do you want to work
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: on Mallrats? You know, after the clerks thing happened. And
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: we had no idea what PAs were, you know, the
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: production assistants. And Mosher sold it as like, you guys
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: are going to have walkie-talkies.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, shit, we get walkie-talkies?
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: I think Walt lasted, it might have, I can't remember exactly,
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: but it might have been three days at the most.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: I lasted a week. Because really, it's, we had no
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: interest in working.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: It really is.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: It really is terrible.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I have done a little of that. I'm just like,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: this is not what I want to do with my
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: day or life. Yeah.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: Even though, like, Eli Roth, even though I'm not a
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: huge fan of his movies, he PA'd on, like, 50
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: movies before he made Cabin Fever. And I'm like, that
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: is a guy who really paid his dues, Eli Roth.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: It's one of those, I don't, yeah, I don't want
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: to do it. But it is, like, if you're up
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and coming, it's like, don't, even more so than film school. Like,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: go do that. If that's what you think you want
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: to do. you are thrown in the trenches there. So
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: it's like, you'll realize if you want to make movies
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: or not if you're a PA for a couple of days.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: You'll be like, yeah, this might be too much for me.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: I want to go do something else.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you'll see.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hardcore. It's the way to learn either way,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: in or out.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: And it's not that I think like Roth's movies are
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: poorly made. And I read an article about it. I'm like,
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: this might be true is because when you're young, because
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, I loved horror movies when I was young.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: Anything from like Gothic to Slasher. There's a movie called
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: Don't Go in the House. It was shot around the
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: area I lived in. It stars Dan Grimaldi from Sopranos,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: the guy who plays Patsy Parisi.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I may have seen it.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: It's been a while. It's kind of like a psycho ripoff,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: but it's a guy who takes, like he basically, his
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: mother's dead. Spoiler alert, 35 years later. But his mother's dead,
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: but he hears her voice, and he takes these women
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: to a room that is outfitted, like it's all built,
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: it's all metal, and then just uses a flamethrower and
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: burns them.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Exterminator style.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I mean, you think of like the stuff
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: we had in the 80s, like shit like that, shit
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: like Faces of Death, like all that stuff. You know,
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: the dawn of the slasher movie with Halloween and Friday
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: the 13th and the lesser known, what was that Weinstein movie?
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: Oh shit, it was at a camp. Do you remember
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: the name of it?
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Sleepaway Camp.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: It wasn't Sleepaway Camp. It was with the Cropsey guy.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: I can't remember.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's, yeah.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: It's really not bad at all. It's pretty good, actually.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: It's kind of better than the Friday the 13th.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: I think so, too. The Burning? The Burning, yeah. Jason Alexander,
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: Holly Hunter in it.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's kind of better than that. People
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: love the franchise Friday the 13th, but I'm like, they're
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: not great movies. It's just a fun concept where I'm like,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: The Burning is a pretty decent.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: Movie, actually. Yeah. I was talking to Walt about it
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: the other day where he had watched something and he
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: was like, yeah, it didn't hold up. And I said,
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: when's the last time you watched it? Because if you
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: watch something when you're 13 and then you watch it
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: again when you're 48, it's probably not going to hold up.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: But if there's repeated viewings over the decades, it's for
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: some reason you seem to, it becomes more watchable.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, each time I watch these and I
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: go back and rewatch them, it's like you're a different person.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: So you're coming at it with a totally different perspective
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and you are watching things that you would have never
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: seen when you were 13 or 18 or whatever. It's like,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I think you just bring new things to the movie
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and it kind of changes the way you see it.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: So some of them that helps, some of them that
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: really hurts.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: Well, the article also said, I mean, the thrust of
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: it was that because you're older, you have a greater
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: sense of mortality.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: Where like, you know, you're, you know, I saw Friday
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: the 13th theatrically in 1980, I guess it was. And,
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: you know, of course you're like, this is the best.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: But when you watch something like Hostel theatrically and you're like,
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: oh my God, what if somebody caught me and some
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: rich guy killed me for kicks?
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Suddenly this isn't fun anymore.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this isn't fun. We've got to ban these kind
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: of movies. That's what they said it comes down to
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: is that sense of mortality where you don't want to
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: think about dying because it's a little bit closer around
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: the bend than it used to be.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: And you start judging the characters. When you're a kid,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, that looks great. That looks like fun.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: And then as you're an old man, you're just like,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: they're going to get hurt. Look, this is a terrible idea.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: You just start judging from the other end of like, nope,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you kids are screwing things up already.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: Also, the tropes are so well-traveled by this point that
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: you're like, who is going to do something new? What's-his-name
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: did it with... what was it, The Cabin?
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: Cabin in the Woods.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: Cabin in the Woods, yeah.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Which has its issue. Again, I think you almost have
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: to go way outside the realm. You have to do
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: a Final Girls kind of thing where it's just like, okay,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: we know there are so many tropes that we're now
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: going to comment constantly on how many tropes there are,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: which is almost being overdone now. So I don't know
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: what the next step is. We've had the throwbacks that
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: try to do it straight. We've had the ones that
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: are breaking the wall and talking to you, telling you
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: there are tropes. I'm like, I don't know where else
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: we can go after this.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: It's just, Yeah, it's tough. I watched, I mean, and again,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: it didn't break new ground, but I saw The Conjuring
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: 2 a few weeks ago. And I was surprised at
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: how much I liked it because I don't normally like
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: modern horror.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm hit and miss, but yeah, it's kind of
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: like the ones that have to break through. I haven't
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: seen a ton of the ghost knockoff possession. They crank
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: a new one out every six months, and I'm like,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I can't keep up. I don't care. But I did
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: see the first Conjuring, and I was like, did a
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: good job. Like again, it's decent performances and they kind
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: of just lay that special effects stuff in just enough
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: that it was like, okay, that was kind of creepy.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: So that one was a little, a little better than
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: most of the other modern stuff being thrown at us.
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: And they're just like, I mean, as you get older, obviously, especially,
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: you know, you have the internet and it's just like
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: the skepticism and cynicism that wasn't there when you were
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: a kid. I mean, you used to watch in search
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: of and in the seventies and be like, holy shit, man.
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: Unless it was something about like, oh, the pyramids, then
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: you're like, get the fuck out of here, Leonard Nimoy.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: Talk about Bigfoot again.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I don't know. I think it is one
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: of those. We just kind of figure out where we
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: want to be as far as movie fans. So, horror
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you steer clear of the IMDb because the
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: opinions and the fighting and the backbiting is just like, oh,
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: my God.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's rare that I've ever even
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: scrolled down there. Like I go there to get the
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: stuff that I get usually for the show or just
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: to be like, wait, what was that one movie he
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: was in? But like, I don't scroll further down because
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: it's just idiots and I don't want to, I don't
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: even care.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Opinionated. So many opinions.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So I guess kind of at that time frame when
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: we were just talking about and your interest in horror,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I guess what led you to Vulgar? Cause it's a,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: it's again, just, I kind of went back and watched
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: it recently and I was like, it's a very specific
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: reason to have to make that movie. I would assume.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, where does this come from?
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: It was, um, Kevin started view askew and he needed a, uh,
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: he needed a mascot.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: You know, or a little opening logo deal.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Um, and for his business card. So he asked
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: Walt to draw something. So Walt drew that iteration of
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: vulgar with, um, this weird party clown with needle marks,
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: train tracks, and fishnets and all that. And he named
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: him Vulgar because he said he was listening to Pantera,
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: a Vulgar display of power at the time. So we
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: were sitting around the store one day, Kevin, Walt, and I,
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: and we were like, what would his story be, I wonder?
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: And we were just bullshitting. And Kevin was talking, he
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: was like, I should make that movie. And a little
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: time went on. And I said, hey man, do you
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: mind if I write it? And he said, no, go ahead.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: So I didn't write it immediately. And then I think
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: it was like the next summer I wrote it. And
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: at the same time, Kevin got a deal with Miramax.
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: And part of the deal was he was allowed to
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: produce four small budgeted movies. And then they ended up
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: being Drawing Flies. big helium dog which never came out
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: that was brian lynch's movie he's on to other things
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: like writing movies that make over a billion dollars foreign
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: and domestic.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Look things really didn't work out for that guy and
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: uh what was.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: He oh drawing flies malcolm's movie and then vulgar was
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: the the fourth one and so he was like all
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: right let's make it and i had like at first
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: i had a forty thousand dollar budget but it was
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: obvious that wasn't going to happen i mean these are
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: the days that you're shooting on film, you know, we're
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: pulling a lot of favors. We applied to get the
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: camera for free and, and did, and still it was,
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: I think like the budget before Lionsgate picked it up
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: was like 80 somewhere around there. Cause Kevin put some
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: more money into it. And, uh, yeah, he basically, he
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: was like, you know, I said, do you mind if
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: I write it? And then after I wrote he was
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: like well why don't you direct it because he had
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: the deal and i was like okay like having no
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: real like i mean i'd seen a lot of movies
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: i had never really studied the craft i looked at
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: shots that i liked in other movies and that kind
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: of thing but it's a rare rare opportunity i mean
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: now it's not rare at all anybody can do it.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah At the time, especially, yeah, having to come up
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: with the equipment and the people and the sets.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Now technology's made it so easy, you can just wander
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: around and make your movie all day long if you
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: really want to.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, which is good and bad, because some pretty horrible movies,
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: and Best Buy used to do that. They would package,
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: it's like, you know, five horror movies, and then you
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: watch them, and it's like, this is all shit that
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: somebody just shot on, like.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: This is one I've heard of, and four that they
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: packed in here to get rid of.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like, terrible, terrible stuff.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, if it's bad, it's bad, and it's always
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: going to be bad, and no one's ever going to care.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: But with Vulgar, yeah, I sort of, you know, the
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: movies that I liked that it was influenced by was like,
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: you know, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Blue Velvet. There is a.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Blue Velvet vibe, yeah. I remember once we get into
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: that room, it does feel a little, yeah, it's got
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: that vibe to it where you can tell, like, you
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: pick up on that. sense of the character being trapped,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and yeah, it's... That.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: Frank Booth kind of mentality.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: It's very Frank Booth, yeah. And that's actually a good performance.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: That's one of the more impressive things, how disturbing that
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: guy is.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he wanted us to, because you know he's supposed
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: to get all worked up, and he's like, I can't
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: get worked up looking at Brian. He was like, he
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: wanted to hire prostitutes. To stand naked behind the camera? Yeah,
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: so that he could get turned on. I was like, Jerry,
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: we're not going to do that. We're not going to
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: do that. That sounds like a disaster in the making.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: But yeah, he's still Matt Mayer, the guy who plays Gino,
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: who I didn't know it at the time. He auditioned.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: you know, we had open auditions. He auditioned and I
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: really liked him and then only found out later on
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: that he grew up with Matt and Ben. He's a
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: friend of theirs and you can see him in some
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: of Ben's movies, you know. And Ethan, obviously, I knew
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: from All Rats. He was great too. Like now I'm
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: sure he'd be like, no way.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Especially if he read the script. Which that was what
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I was going to say. It's so dark. Like what,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out what you were trying to
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: do with it because it's just, it's so great.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah it is it's um i mean i tried to
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: my my idea was and a lot of people didn't
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: like this was to start out sort of light and
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: like you know they're like oh this is like a
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: kevin movie.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah and then like it's gonna be fun.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: Oh right no dante whoa what's happening to dante yeah
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: and then sort of take like a hard right turn
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: into like what is going on and then sort of
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: plummeting but I mean, like if I were to write
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: it today, I would be writing a totally different movie.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: But at the time that was, you know, I've been
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: depressed my entire life pretty much. And I've always, you know,
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: liked really dark stuff. I grew up with a mother
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: who was like, always wanted to be like, she always
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: wanted to be a witch, but the closest she could
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: come was like being Wiccan, but she's not really Wiccan.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: Not the same at all. But she was always interested
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: in horror. And I used to like, she would work at, um,
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: nursing home and I was probably like in third grade
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: at the time and her shift was three to 11.
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: So she got home at like 1130 and then there
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: would be, um, horror movies would come on at 1130.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: It was called chiller theater. And, um, so I would
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: come upstairs and I would watch them with her. So
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: like I was young getting early doses of horror and stuff.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: So I always gravitated towards that rather than the Disney
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: stuff or like lighthearted stuff. I read a lot of,
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: Like when I was in sixth grade, I remember getting
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: back from church. I'd always had to go to church,
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: which was the worst. We were Methodists, so it was
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: always just like preachy, like good shit. It wasn't even like,
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: I went to a Catholic funeral recently. And the Catholics,
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: they'll never miss an opportunity to give you a sermon.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: Like whether it's a wedding, whether it's a funeral. Yeah,
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: you're just like, oh my God. But it really is
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: like so good. graphic and grim and even like the
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: the crucifix you're like god almighty like this is dark
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: it's a grim religion yeah i may have been more
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: interested in it but getting home from church and my
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: mother had bought the exorcist and i was like oh
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: what's this yeah and i read the i read the
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: book in a day i was like i was just
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: i couldn't stop reading it started at like noon and
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: i just went until i was done and i was
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: like this now this is the kind of shit that
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: you know i wish they would talk like if i
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: was a catholic we would have been maybe talking heard
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: about a possession or two you know Not Methodist, though.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I definitely want to touch back on that,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: on the movie that we've chosen. But I guess before
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: we totally get into that, I did want to throw
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: it out there. Just, I get the feeling you're into...
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: We've done a running series of movies about cryptids. You
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: are a cryptid fan, or at least interest in the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: weird things that go on.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we did.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: Years back, Microsoft had this idea that they were going
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: to start paying people to do podcasts.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I'm still waiting for that to kick in.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: For Zoom. Yeah, I know. And so somehow, I don't
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: know how it happened, but somehow the guy who does
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: our advertising was contacted by Microsoft. So we got 16
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: episodes and we called it overkill, you know, since we
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: already did a show. And Walt said, well, why don't
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: we just do paranormal stuff? And since all three of
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: us really dig paranormal stuff, we're like, all right, well,
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: that's how we'll do it. And now, actually, on Tell
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: Them Steve Dave, the podcast I do with those guys,
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: one episode a month is dedicated to overkill, you know,
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: like paranormal stuff. But yeah, just growing up in the 70s,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: like I said, it was not a time of cynicism.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: Like you saw something about Bigfoot, and as far as
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: you were concerned... That Patterson film, it was like that.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gospel for those kind of fans. There it is.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: It's evidence. We got it.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: Going to see something like Close Encounters of the Third Kind,
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: you're like, oh, man. That was big for me. I
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: took a motorcycle, like a 6,000-mile motorcycle trip from L.A.
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: and wound around through the southwest up into the northwest,
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: and I made it a point to stop by Devil's Tower,
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: you know?
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Of course, yeah.
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was cool, you know. There was like
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: a lot of people are like, and they shouldn't say
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: it because it's been said a billion times, but they'll
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: come to the stash and they're like, this is my mecca.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, we've heard that before.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Just bring a box of instant mashed potatoes and be like,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: can I do my recreation here?
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right. But it was, I'm not going to go
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: so far as to be like, this is my mecca,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: but it was like, wow, this is cool, man. Even
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: all these years later to see it in real life.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: and be near it I was like that's actually kind
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: of cool but yeah it was like the 70s were
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: a time of wonderment and then as you get older
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: and you realize this is all bullshit you.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Know the internet destroys all our dreams yeah everything's proven
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: to be bullshit.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: But the I do like that kids have sort of
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: renewed that that sort of genre with the creepypasta stuff
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: yeah You know, I mean, it's not cool when people, like,
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: they're killing. Like, we never killed anybody over Bigfoot.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: We know. You might have covered those up. Yeah, I
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: do know a guy that's on the show. His daughter
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: is really into Slender Man and, like, really, like, totally
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: got into that to the point where he was like,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: do I need to start worrying, you know, after hearing
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the story? So it's like, it is kind of cool that, like,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: there are these new little weird versions that are popping up,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: and somehow the internet's kind of fueling the fire, so
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: it's kind of cool to see it still have some
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: new incarnation come through.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's gained some traction, and it's making some people creative,
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: and some are better than others. You know, when that Slenderman,
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: you know, the two girls killed the other girl, or
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: tried to kill her, I don't think she actually died,
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: but they go after the father, they're like, you know,
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: he had a collection of skulls, and it's not even
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: like real human skulls, it's just like The guy's into skulls.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Most dorky horror fans have at least one skull laying
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: around their house. I have several in mine.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they really wanted to make it about the father's
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: collection or influence or whatever rather than maybe his lack
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: of influence. If you have a 12-year-old daughter and that's
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: what she's up to, you should probably know about it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: You might want to keep an eye on your kids
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: in general.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: Watch a little closer.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we've done a lot of stuff on on
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: some bad Bigfoot movies and bad Yeti movies. We have
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: not done a Jersey Devil, so you're definitely invited to
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: come on for a Jersey Devil film.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I've seen a couple. I started writing one years ago,
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: and I wrote like half of it, then I lost it,
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: and then I was on this crappy little computer I had.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: And then somebody put out a Jersey Devil movie, and
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: it did shitty, of course, so I was like, eh,
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: forget it. But I don't know. When you put like Jersey...
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: into it it makes it seem so regional rather than
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: like say mothman prophecies where which is.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Still regional but most of the rest of the country
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: didn't know it was a real thing now they all
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: do but at the time it's like it just seemed
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: like a general you know creature they made up but yeah.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: And the ones that have been made that i've seen
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: are they're not very good and they're you know again
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: rely on the same bullshit.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I do kind of like that everybody has that though
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: because we have it here in this town during right now.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: There's one, and somebody, I mean, it started, I mean,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: it started in, like, the early part of the last century, but, like,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: stories were really huge in, like, 60s, 70s, 80s, and, like,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: literally in the last three or four months, somebody just
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: died trying to go find this place where this creature lives,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: which is on a train trestle, which is why they
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: say it's what I'm like, that's what started the story.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I think they were like, Hey idiots, stay off this
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: train trestle. That's like massively hanging out in the air
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: by itself. And like the, yeah, there's always some dumb kid.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: It was just all teenagers back in the day. Now
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I think this lady wasn't even a kid. Like they
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: came here from another state just to look for this thing.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: And she fell off the train trestle. I don't know
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: what happened.
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: It's like as an adult, you should be able to say, well,
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: maybe the reason they say it lives there is because
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: it is so remote and weird. As opposed to like, oh,
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: he lives in this easily accessible cabin that isn't dangerous.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Again, I think that the old angry men around there
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: are just like, you kids stay off there. There's a
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: monster that lives there. Don't go over there. It might
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: just be like, don't go there or you'll die. For
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: real reasons, but if you need a monster, whatever, just
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: don't go on the train trestle, you idiots. Yeah. It's
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: funny that every town kind of has a version of that.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: There's a tunnel somewhere where the bunny man kills you.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Everybody has a weird variation on that. I mean, that's
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: kind of cool, and when people die, it's.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Not good, but.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Just the fact that we still have that regional thing
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: that everybody brings their own weird little hometown story to it.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: We also lived at a relatively short distance to a
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: psychiatric hospital.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Well, we have one less year, too. It's now haunted,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: if you believe me.
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, is that Waverly Hills? Yeah. I've wanted to go there.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Definitely from the outside, it's an interesting building. Inside, I
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: went when they were doing a haunted house there, and
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: it was just kind of a cheesy haunted house.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: No offense.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how much has held true. I
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: haven't seen anything, but it's an interesting building. They do
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: have a death tunnel.
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Because people were dying so fast, they were just throwing
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: them down a chute.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: That's crazy.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, weird, creepy places in everybody's town.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and we would hear, you know, you'd read an
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: article in the paper every once in a while about
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: escape psychiatric patient. Of course, they're not just trying to
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: get away. They're murderous and they're, you know, dangerous and
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: all this other crap.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, ours wasn't psychiatric. It was just like tuberculosis. They
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: were just dying there.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: I always thought Session 9 was a pretty good movie
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: as far as asylums.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Again, it's one of those people are kind of divided
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: on it. They kind of hate where it goes. And
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I love that ending. Like, I think it's
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: genius the way it is. And like, yeah, it's kind
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: of hit and miss with people. Either they're on board
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: for what's going on or they're just like immediately out
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: by the time it gets to the end. But I
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: think just the whole setup for it is so good.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: My cousin was working in, uh, up North Jersey, uh,
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: in some asylum that had been shut down. And he
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: said they were up in the, the attic or whatever.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: He's like, and there were all these records, like all
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: these patient records, all these documents. And I was like,
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: get out. I was like, can you, I was like,
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: can you bring them back? And he goes, no, we
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: threw him away. I was like, are you out of
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: your goddamn mind? Like, why would you do that? Like,
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: that's history, man. That is, like, super interesting history.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: And these were people's lives. I mean, those really were
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: real people.
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like the suitcases they found in that place in
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: New York. Yeah, it's like, why would you throw something
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: like that away? And I'm like, yeah, you know what?
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: Dumbass contractor. Could have just as easily been a clammer
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: who's like, yeah, we dredged up some documents and chucked
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: them back in the river.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who needs them?
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: Good evening.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: It's intermission time. Our service is friendly and quick. You'll
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: find hot dogs, hamburgers, pizza, your favorite candies, hot and
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: cold beverages, and other delicious snacks. So add to your
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: fun of watching the movie. Visit our refreshment stand right now.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: We're glad to have you with us tonight. We hope
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: you'll come to see us often. It's great to get out.
• 34:25
  Speaker 6: To the movies.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: In this house, 25 years ago, a child was given life.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Donald, come here.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: He was raised in isolation.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: You're a bad boy.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Instructed in fear.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: You're evil and you must be punished.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Imprisoned by a tormented mind.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Your father let you do things like that, but.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: He's gone now. And baptized in flames. Now he has
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: come of age. His suffering has ended, and ours is
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: about to begin.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: You hear that, old lady?
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I'll punish you again! If you would be spared from
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: the fury of his vengeance, whatever you do, don't go
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: in the house. Stairway by stairway, he draws you closer
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: to madness. Oh! And soon he'll share the terrifying secret
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: behind this door in the room of steel.
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: Don't make me do anything bad, mother.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Don't go in the house because the people who live
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: there aren't people anymore. Don't go in the house.
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: But if you do.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Don't go in the house.
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: This episode is sponsored by World of Leathercraft. Specializing in
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: handmade leathercraft items with a specific nod to the geeky genres.
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• 36:40
  Speaker 6: shop slash worldofleathercraft. Or just go to MovieMeltdown.com and click
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: on the World of Weathercraft banner at the bottom of
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: the page. Then it will take you to their Etsy
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: page and you can take a look at all the
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• 37:07
  Speaker 1: This is Scott Wilson.
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: I played Herschel Green on The Walking Dead, and this
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: is Movie Meltdown.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Stay tuned.
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: It's time for Sofa Theater.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Otis, plug it in.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: Did you really kill your mama?
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: What?
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Did you really kill your mama?
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I guess I did.
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: She must have treated you real bad.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: You're the whore. Susie! Sus! You used.
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: To dance naked?
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: Sure, all the time around town.
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: Otis.
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: Best little naked dancer you ever saw.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: You never.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: You telling me you never killed anybody before?
• 38:09
  Speaker 7: I ain't saying that.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Open your eyes, Otis.
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: Look at the world.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: It's either you or them. You know what I mean.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Don't do that, Otis.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: She's your sister.
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: I feel like I know you.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Like I've known you for a long time.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've known you forever and ever.
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: It's like the blood droppings from a deer you shot.
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: And all they gotta do is follow those droppings and
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: pretty soon they're gonna find their deer.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I ain't interrupting it.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: What are you doing?
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I want to see it again. It's not easy being me.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Wash your face and brush your hair. Well, knock, knock, knock.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: It's just not fair. I'm Horrid Henry.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: So down with school.
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna rule.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: And when I'm.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: King, I'll do my thing.
• 39:25
  Speaker 7: And then my life will be so sweet.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: I'm Horrid Henry.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Na-na-na, na-na-nay, the.
• 39:34
  Speaker 7: Purple hand gang rules okay It's not easy.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Being me, I'm Horrid Henry Na-na-na.
• 39:44
  Speaker 7: It's not fair, na-na-nay, I wasn't there Why do I
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: get blamed for everything, cause I'm Horrid Henry No, it's
• 39:55
  Speaker 7: not easy being me.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Tidy up. Just look at your hair.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Knock, knock, knock.
• 40:02
  Speaker 7: It's so not fair. I'm Horrid Henry.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: This week's Sofa Theater feature is Henry, Portrait of a
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Serial Killer. The year is 1986. Director John McNaughton and
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: the plot, according to IMDb, usually they just kind of
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: get it wrong. This one, they just barely try. Based
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: on the true life serial killer Henry Lee Lucas.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: Period. That's all they put.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: So, spoiler alert, it's been around for a while, but
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: go watch the movie beforehand. So, yeah, you picked this movie.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I guess you previously mentioned being a horror fan. Was
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: that part of it, or is it, I mean, you
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: also have a personal tie. You've worked with Michael Rooker,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: or at least were crossing paths at that point.
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I had read about it. In one of the
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: horror magazines, I can't remember, about it being made, then
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: being shelved. And then finally, when I worked at the
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: video store, it did come out. And I was like,
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: holy shit, well, I got to watch this. Now, you're
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: talking about VHS.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: That's how I watched it. Yeah, so it's... It's the
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: first time I watched it.
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: It's kind of like the Blair Witch Project. Like when
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: the Blair Witch Project, even before it came out, they
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: had sent Kevin a screener. with no credits or anything
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: and watching it on vhs was so different.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: The most amazing marketing scheme again like there's a reason
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: they became the most successful independent film it was that
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: marketing scheme and that that they'd hit just at the
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: right time with the internet where they started spreading little
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: rumors and videos and like it yeah it's amazing how
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: that came together i.
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: Went i didn't see it in theaters but i did
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: peek my head in in theaters and I was like,
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: I got so nauseous within like 10 seconds, I couldn't
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: even watch it. But on the small screen, it was,
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: it somehow seemed more intimate and more real. And, you know,
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, I knew it wasn't real at the time,
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: but I had a girlfriend who didn't know that.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: They sold it pretty hard that it was a real thing.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was the worst thing that someone, Kevin did
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: the same thing to his wife. He was like, he
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: didn't tell her it wasn't real.
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: Here, watch this.
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: But the point being that like that sort of, small
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: screen grainy experience because it is so... Henry is so
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: low budget and raw. I mean, I think they said
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: the budget was $ 100, 000 or something. Like, McNaughton was going
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: to make a wrestling movie and that fell through. Instead,
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: let's make this. Yeah, the producers were like, well, write
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: a movie and do something else. And he had seen...
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: McNaughton had seen something on 2020 about Henry Lee Lucas. Yeah,
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: so he was like, alright, I'll do something based on that.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: And.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Rooker, like you said, I met him in 95 and
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: he's probably the only person I've met so far out
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: of everyone I've met that I was truly amazed by.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: Just like, dude, you have no idea about performance.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: He's like a force of nature. I see him at
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: so many events and he's in his own Rooker world.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: He operates on a different level and he's amazing, but
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: like He just kind of does his own thing and
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: does not care. Because everybody else at those conventions kind
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: of follows the rules. And Rooker does what he wants
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: because he's Rooker. That's obviously how he addresses the movie roles, too.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Because I don't know that most people could have done
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: what he does in this movie.
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: That's what I asked him. I said, how did you
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: get into that headspace? And this was actually at the
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: last con because Ming and I, uh, moderated his panel.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: And I asked him, I was like, how did you
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: get into that headspace? And he was like, I was
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: already in that headspace. Like he said shit like that.
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: And he really is.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: He just likes to mess with people.
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah. He, but he really is. I, I told him
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: I was like, you, if you weren't in movies, you
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: would be, you couldn't be anything but like a rock star.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: Because that's exactly, he is a totally wild guy. He's
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: a super funny dude. He's, he's a really nice person.
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: Like he's, he's just great. Like I love the guy. Um,
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: But in that movie, which was his first, you know,
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: I've read conflicting reports where he stayed in character, but
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: he says in a documentary that you can't bring that
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: stuff home with you, so he wouldn't stay in character.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: So it's, you never know what to believe. I mean,
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: I would believe what Rooker says.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, seemed like that would be the place to get
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: the information. But yeah, it is one of those, like,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: seeing him in other things, especially by the time we
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: get to, like, Mallrats, and like, Seeing him in these,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: and even in the real world, how, like, silly he
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: can be and, like, how, like, laid back he is, like,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: and then watching that performance and, like, listening to, like,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: my mother was a whore speech. I'm like, he can
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: just nail those dramatic scenes in a way that, like,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: you would never see coming out of the guy that
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: you see wandering around being crazy and everywhere he goes now.
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the closest he's come to that character
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: is probably Merle from Walking Dead. That sort of hard-ass,
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: very focused, very believable.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: I need to go back and watch Mississippi Burning. It's
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: been a long time. I remember everybody being good in
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: that movie. But yeah, he's another one of those heavier
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: roles for him. But yeah, he was... we went watch
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: we watched one of his from a few years later
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: recently that's like totally like brown's requiem i don't know
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: if you've i had not heard of it and a
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: friend of mine went oh we need to watch this
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: it was one of those he just happened to catch
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: on like cable at the time or something or just
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: rented it one day and it's it's pretty interesting because
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: it's early for rooker but he's also the leading man
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: which is not normally what they give him and like
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: He's trying to be a normal guy. It's sort of
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: like a detective. It's kind of like a modern-day film
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: noir kind of thing, but it's a weird movie. It's
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: just weirdly pieced together, and then he is trying to
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: be way more of a normal guy than he usually is.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: It's interesting to go back and watch that one.
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: He was pretty normal, too, in JFK.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He can do it, but it's strange. It's almost
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: more strange to see him do that. I can see
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: him do super heavy... like Henry, and then I could
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: see him do, like, you know, the distiller stuff, having
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: seen him wander around like that now. But, yeah, it's
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: that middle-of-the-road, trying-to-be-an-average-guy thing that always strikes me as the
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: strangest of the bunch.
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the thing I wondered about Henry was, like, why
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: McNaughton decided to diverge from... I mean, because it's a very...
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: It's loose. It's very loosely based on.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: The premise is set up because he does take, like,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: some of those... flashes of dead bodies are built to
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: be just like crime scene photos. Like, he did sort
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: of take inspiration from some of the more horrific ends
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: of it, but I think as far as story, he
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: was just like, and we're gonna make our own characters. Like,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I feel like they are super loosely based as far as, like,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: they have the same names, they're in Chicago, but, like,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of it, they just sort
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: of take license, and again, I feel like it's probably
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: a way better film because of it, because I can't imagine.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I think that's what's cool about is by the end
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: of it, you do kind of feel for him as
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: a character. And for being the horrible serial killer that
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: he is, you shouldn't. And I think if you've stuck
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: closer to the facts or closer to the way the
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: real Henry Lee Lucas was, you probably wouldn't have any
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: sympathy or you wouldn't have empathy for any characters. Like,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's probably, I think, a better movie
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: just from a character standpoint because he didn't stick that
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: close to it.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: And the other thing is that you know, I think
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: one of the criticisms from some people was like, well, you,
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: you can't let him get away. Just, you know, again,
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: if you haven't seen the movie, you should see it
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: before I say this, but it's like, you can't let
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: him kill Becky and just drive off and continue to
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: do what he does. But even like the relationship between
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: like Otis or Otis or however they pronounce it. And,
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: and Henry was, and I saw like some of the
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: cut scenes where I guess they were like lovers at
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: one point.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: I think in the real world, that was the story.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: And McNaughton was just like, the characters we've created, that
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: would seem weird. He was like, they even shot some
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: of that stuff at the end of that one scene.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: They kind of get into that. And it's like, and
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: it's true. As he said that, I was like, yeah, these,
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: especially with the Rooker performance, because he just seems uncomfortable
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: with people. Like the dealing with Becky is like, Anytime
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: she's touching him, definitely when she starts kissing him, he
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: seems so awkward because he does such a great job
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: showing how disconnected he is with the world. I think
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: that's why he has no problem killing all these people
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: is because he doesn't even understand. Again, that's what they've
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: started to find in real serial killers is there's part
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: of the brain that's potentially damaged sometimes that they really
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: don't understand empathy. They don't know how to see things
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: from other people's perspective, and so they feel nothing when
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: they start to do this. That's a weird thing that now, like,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: science has come along and been, like, addressing the fact that, yeah,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: this is sort of a real thing, that they're not
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: just messed up. They are, but it's also... for some
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: sort of specific reason, like a weird blow to the
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: head that they found in a lot of them when
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: they were young.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: Well, it's, it's also, you know, like you, if you
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: read Henry Lee Lucas's story and if you believe it
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: to be true or even Otis, Otis tool, whatever, like
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: you read their childhood stories, you're like these kids, like
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: they never had a chance.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: And it doesn't make what they've done any less. Because
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: a lot of people will be like, well, lots of
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: people have had terrible childhoods. But again, shit affects people
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: different ways. Not to say that there's any sympathy for
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: these guys. But when your mother is forcing you to
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: watch her have sex with customers because she's a prostitute.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: When your father has his legs cut off and he's
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: dragging himself out into the snow just to die because
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: he can't deal with it. you've got your mother dressing
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: you up like a girl and all that other shit.
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: You know, it's like, it's definitely like, you know, the
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: formation of the brain happens within those first five, six years.
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: And after that, you're kind of who you are, right?
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: You're going to be messed up from that point on.
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And, and how, what, how, what that, what direction
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: that damage takes you varies. Clearly not everyone becomes a
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: serial killer, but like I've, I've recently just been fascinated
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: with Dennis Radar BTK.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: Only because of like, I'm just like, what happened? What
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: switch was flipped that made him need to take those pictures?
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: And if you haven't seen the Dennis Radar BTK pictures,
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: not the crime scene photos of the women that he killed,
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: but self-portraits of he's dressed like a woman and he's
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: hanging from like a tree or something, or he's like
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: a mock burial where there's a grave dug and he's
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: like in plastic, like just in a grave. It's like,
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: you can't even begin. Like, look, there's fetishes. And then
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: there's like, what the hell, man?
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: You're again, I think you start going a little too
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: far to the unhealthy.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: And, uh, yeah, I think you're probably right with Henry.
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: Like if you stuck too close to the actual, um,
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: And who even knows how many people he killed. And
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: I don't understand that with cops, where they're like, we
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: just want to close these cold cases and get them
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: off the books. So yes, Henry killed 600 people. Somebody
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: figured it out, some reporter that they're like, look, it
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: wouldn't be possible for him to transverse the country. And
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: he would have had to go like 30,000 miles in
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: six months or something.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I thought I read the confirmed number as 11,000. And
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: everything else is just him like, oh, I killed 300 people.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: I killed 6,000 people. It's just continually been ridiculous astronomical
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: numbers ever since then. That was something, again, as I said,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: you bring different things to movies as you rewatch them.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: I remember watching it, again, that was my take. I
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: saw it on VHS back in the day, kind of
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: hearing about it as almost like a documentary, and it
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: does kind of have that feel at times, but Now,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: since then, and I guess people who've been listening to
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: the show for a while have heard this many times.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: One of our, well, actually two of our cast members
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: lived across the street from a serial killer.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: That got busted two, three, three or more years ago now.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: And they went over there and dug up their yard.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: They found when he got busted, one of them he
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: had just killed in the garage. That's a couple of
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: houses down from them. He used to mow their lawn. So, like,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: the guy on the show would be out there talking
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: to him, and he thought he was a weird dude, but, like, you.
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: Know, whatever.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: He just lives with his mom. It's so cliche. Like,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: everything about it is super cliche. He lived with his mom, was, like,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: super weird into, like, he had all kinds of bad
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: prison tattoos. He was probably a Nazi of some sort.
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: But then, like, even to the fact they went there and, like,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: they busted him, he claimed to kill so many people
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: that now they cannot pin down... There were three. There
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: was one in the garage at the time, one somewhere
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: else in the house maybe, and then there was one
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: buried in the backyard down the street from them. But yeah,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: he's claimed so many that they've done kind of the
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: same thing they did with Henry Lee Lucas. They took
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: him two plays and were like, okay, show us where
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: you did that. Henry Lee Lucas got flown to different areas.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: He almost got deluxe treatment when he started going on
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: this little tour with the cops to show us where
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: the bodies are. And most of them were bullshit probably.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: And that's what this guy, he started claiming all these
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: murders that either didn't happen or he at least can't
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: produce a body now. He's like, oh, I buried him
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: here and they'll go there and dig stuff up.
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: Nothing's there.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, it's weird how sometimes it's so cliche
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: what happens when you fall into these little serial killer situations.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: And it's like, it seems like it's made up stuff
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: for the movies and then you see one happen across
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: the street from you and you're like, shit, this is
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: all like real and kind of makes all of this
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: a little creepier when you're like, no, this could all
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: really be going on and people wouldn't.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: Know any better. Yeah. What's also very telling of like
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: a sociopath who likes to toy with people, the cops included.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: Where, you know, it's like, all right, well, I'll get
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: out of jail for a day. I'll tell them that like, hey,
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: I buried so-and-so in a place that maybe the person
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: wants to go.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: You know, and, you know, get out for the day
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: and they dig around and he's like, yeah, I guess
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: I didn't do it.
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: If you shoot somebody in the head with a. 45
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: every time you kill somebody, it becomes like your fingerprints, see?
• 54:54
  Speaker 5: But if you strangle one and stab another, when you
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: cut up, when you don't, then the police don't know
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: what to do. They think you're four different people. What
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: they really are, what makes their job somewhat easier, is
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: a pattern. What they call a modus operandi.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: That's Latin.
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: Bet you didn't know any Latin, did you?
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: Big fucking deer. What?
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: It's like a trail of shit, Otis.
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: It's like the blood droppings from a deer you shot.
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: And all they got to do is follow those droppings
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: and pretty soon they're going to find their deer.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: That's one thing I think is interesting about this story.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: And I guess Henry kind of fell into the, in
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: the real world, fell into that category. Because I remember
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: watching it again this time going, Yeah, he really isn't
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: following the... If you're going with the cliches, he doesn't
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: have a pattern. He doesn't have the standard setup of, like,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I only track women between 20 and 25, and I
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: have to do this... Like a Ted Bundy. Yeah, like
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: I have to... Bundy didn't even have to try. He
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: just dated.
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I know.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: He's the only one that was kind of attractive and
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: not a creep. He wasn't creepy seeming because he kept
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: luring these women in.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: There are non-serial killer guys who are like, I can't
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: get a date for the life of me.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the rest of them just look like serial killers.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: But they have a very specific way that they stalk
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: them or a specific way they have to kill them.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: And then the way they dispose of the bodies is
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: always very similar. And then you get to either versions
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: of the Henry character where he's just like, no, that's
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: why it works. That's why I can do this is because,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: especially watching this now, I'm like, this is also very pre-CSI.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: And the things they do now, I'm like, he would
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: be busted so fast. The blood that they leave everywhere,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: the DNA evidence that's everywhere, which in 86 and before,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: you didn't really worry about. But yeah, watching him, it's like,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: At that point, all they did was base it on–
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: it was cases. It was files. It was just them
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: profiling people and figuring out how to track them down,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: whereas now we have tons of, again, scientific data gets involved.
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: Not to mention the computer databases that people– You know,
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: the FBI and local law enforcement and state, like, they
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: were very unwilling to share information, you know, because they
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: wanted it to be their case.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: That's, like, the running thing in all 80s action movies is, like, ah,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: the feds are here. Well, don't give them anything. Like,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: it's the running joke in all those that the local
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: cops hate the feds and nobody's going to share information,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: where I guess now, hopefully... From this end, we get
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: a little better.
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: Well, that happened in the Pizza Connection case in the
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: 80s with the mafia. The district attorney of New York
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: wanted it, but the FBI had this. Because it was
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: a huge case, they're going to bust a bunch of
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: dons and made guys and shit. So everybody wants that
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: because it's going to make their career. Nobody's sharing anything.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's what's so interesting about watching... this version
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: of Henry or maybe the real one. Again, I haven't
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: gone back to dig totally into the real story, but
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: watching this version that, that Michael Walker plays is just
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: interesting because he's so conscious of it. He's just like,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: that's what I want to do. I want to murder people.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: And the best way is to have a strategy to
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: be like, okay, always mix it up. Always, you know,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: deal with the bodies different. Like every step of the
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: way is like you randomize it just enough that nobody
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: can figure out a pattern. Nobody can figure out anything.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: And it's also interesting how much he just does it
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: all in the real world. Like, there are no cops ever. Like, again,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: they drive by that one on the highway. That was
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: by accident. Like, that just happened when they were shooting.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: And other than that, there are no cops in the
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: movie because, again, he has no fear. So he just
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: exists in a world where he does whatever the hell
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: he wants. And he assumes there's no consequences because he's
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: smart enough to kind of know how to avoid the traps.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: And nobody else seems to care.
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sort of a sense of lawlessness.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: The other thing in the movie that they did that
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: um the the real henry was sort of into was
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: uh like in the movie henry was very against like
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: necrophilia like after like what people a lot of people
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: consider to be the most horrific scene was the family
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: yeah you know where he kills the the mom and
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: the kid and the the father uh What's his name?
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: Otis starts to make out with the body. And he's like, Otis, no.
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: And I think he did it on two occasions where
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: he seemed very against the necrophilia angle. And in real life,
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: they say that he was totally into it. And the
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: other concession they sort of had to make was Becky
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: was– That's.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: What I heard. She was way younger.
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she wasn't like the woman, Tracy Arnold, I think
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: her name was, but the woman who played Becky. She was,
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, she had to be like, what, at least
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: 20 or so, maybe a little bit older. 25, yeah.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: So it's much more palatable than him going around with
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: a nine-year-old and a nine-year-old coming on to him.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: It's really disturbing.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think she was like 12 when he
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: eventually did kill her. But I mean, can you imagine,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, what's that 12 year old's life like up
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: to that point, you know, where she's giving a serial
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: killer shit, you know, she's yelling at him until he's like,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: all right, fuck this.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Talk about when you have a kid having no hope.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: It's like as much as Henry had a problem, like
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: at least he wasn't tooling around with a serial killer
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: the whole time. Like he just became one. So yeah,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: it's that, that dynamic again, I think it works better
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: because of those adjustments. Like, I like, that's one of
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: the most, I think that's one of the most interesting
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: things watching the movie is that he still has rules.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: Like you see in the beginning, like you see Otis
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: come into it and he's just like, he's almost, you know,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: sickened by it when it first happens. And he's scared
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: because he doesn't want to get busted, but he also
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: feels bad. You see him sitting there in the car
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: and like, he just feels bad about it. And then
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: he starts to come out of it and you watch him.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: totally buy into it and be like okay no i
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: like this animalistic side of myself i like the lawlessness
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: of i do whatever i want now we need something
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: we go out and get it we don't care who
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: we kill in the process and he gets to the
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: point where he's just without any rules without any scruples
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: whatsoever where henry still has just enough of a barrier
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: to be like that's your sister. You don't do that.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: You know, like she's dead. Don't do that. You know,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: it's like, he's got those weird little barriers that are,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, you watched him murder people time and time again,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: but like, you still see him pull back and go, no, wait,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: that's too far. And like, that's fascinating to me is
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: that he has, he still has some sort of weird
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: code that he sticks to, even in such a depraved
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: universe as is like, he still has some sort of
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: weird stopping point. It's like, nope, that's too far.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: I wonder if today's audiences would watch Henry. Because it's
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: often been described as the grittiest, most realistic, most horrifying
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: film you could watch. But with so many things that
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: have come out since then, like Hostel and the stuff
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: Eli has done and a couple other movies like that,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: it just doesn't have the punch. And then you look
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: at real world violence, which is... 50 people getting gunned down,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: it seems much more horrific than sort of like at
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: times in the movie, like cartoony-like neck. I mean, is
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: a neck that easy to break? Because he breaks necks
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: right and left.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty quick.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: But again, it's Rooker.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: He's just ripped. Yeah, right?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Superhuman Rookin' Power.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and Tom Toles is really, really good in that movie, too.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: He is because, again, he plays him so just, he's
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: an idiot. Like, and you want, that's what he's supposed
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: to be. But like, you wouldn't want to look that
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: bad if you had, you know, too much of an ego,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: you know, but it's like, he comes into it as like,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: they're all three kind of idiots, but like Henry's at
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: least the one that's kind of got a clue. The
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: fact that like, what's that shirt say? Like you live
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: in that town for God's sake. The other one's a symbol.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: Like they're so, you know, they're just so clueless. that
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: they barely could get by in the world anyway without
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: all of this. But yeah, Tom just sort of has
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: no problem being despicable, even in a world of people
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: who are extra horrible and disgusting. He just also is
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: kind of obnoxious when he deals with Becky, and then
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: once he goes down the rabbit hole of killing people,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: he just gets worse and worse, and there's just... no
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: into his depravity even when you get into the sexual
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: stuff like he's the one that you see hitting on
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: that guy and then attacking his sister and like he
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: just does not care who he he hurts or gets
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: involved with or anything like and that's again that's a
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: very selfless performance out of tom he's he's really good.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: And the the the thing that um i think still
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: like echoes today is the the guy the good samaritan
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: who pulls over and they just gun him down for
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: no reason you know and that that that shit happened then,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: it happened now. That's the one that's.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: The most out in the open, too. It's just like,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: people could drive by, cops could hear the gun go, nothing.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: They just, it is a complete lawlessness of just like,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: we do whatever the hell we want, and nobody's gonna
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: stop us, and they don't, for them, the only one
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: that does is the other party involved. Like, the law
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: never gets involved, at least in this story that we see.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And also, like you say, like reflective of the
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: times where there weren't cameras everywhere.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: Um, there, they wouldn't be able to, you know, they
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: could read the ballistics of the gun and stuff if
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: they could find the gun. But, you know, people didn't
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: have phones on their cameras on their phones and they
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: didn't have, you know, the, the DNA stuff and people
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: committing crimes in the seventies. And it would never dream
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: that like, well, maybe I'll get busted for this 25
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: years later because now I have my DNA, you know.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: They go and bust those guys that like killed somebody
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: in the forties. How can you imagine?
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: I have a friend who's a homicide detective in New York,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: and he says that CSI has actually done a disservice
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: because people think, oh, well, you find the DNA, and
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: then the next day you know if it's that person
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: or not. And you're done.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: There's no police work involved.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: It doesn't work like that. So he's like, it's easier
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: to get away with than people think, and told me
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: about this great case where some guy, I think he
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: killed a drug dealer or something. And when the guy
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: was on trial, they said, well, have you ever been
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: in his house? And the guy said, no, I've never
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: been in his house. And they found this dude's fingerprint
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: in the house. Now, had he said, yes, I knew him.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: I had been over to his house. That would have
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: been it. And the dude probably would have skated. But
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: since he lied and said, no, I'd never been there.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: And it's like, well, clearly you have been. Boom, went
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: to jail.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: So is honesty the best policy is the question here. Yeah.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: Or don't kill other people or drug dealers or whomever.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Try not to kill people as far as we're concerned.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I was like, the other thing, you mentioned
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: the cameras thing. That's what I wanted to address with
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: this is like, again, we were dorks and watched it
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: on VHS back in the day. That's also like right
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: at that turning point of like the technology changing. Like
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: that's the very beginning. I mean, we couldn't even imagine
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: then the like internet nonsense that would come along. in 10, 15,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: 20 years and be like, watch how much it revolutionized
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: the world. But like just that little bit of it
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: peeking out with the VHS camera, it's like all of
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: a sudden, cause I think he said like, I think
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: the director even owned up to like, he liked in
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: a red dragon that the murderer is taking photos and
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: like kind of documenting his thing. So he's like, I just,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: you know, he's like, I'm not going to hide it. Just,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: they always say, just go ahead and freely steal from
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: it and just do your own thing. So he took it.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: a step further with them finding, you know, going and
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: getting that camera. And then, um, I feel like it
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: is like kind of, that's one of the things I
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: think it does. That's different than movies previous. Definitely. And
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: even from then, like it's such a specific little window
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: where it's like, you finally get to see this new
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: opportunity to give them this perversion. Like it's an extra
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: layer of perversion there of like, not only do I
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: want to kill people, I want to be able to
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: go back and watch it. Like I want to capture
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: this moment and, And be able to relive it again.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: And that's something that, I mean, technically, I guess you
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: could have done it with, like, a Super 8. But, like,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: you have to get that developed. Like, you would have
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: gotten busted, more than likely. So, like, it is something, like,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: you know, like, Peeping Tom kind of goes into that
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: voyeuristic aspect, you know, earlier. But, like, this is one
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: of the first times you see, like, that 80s technology
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: come into it and be like, okay, now... you're in
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: charge of, you know, what you shoot and you don't
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: have to take anywhere. There's nobody else involved. You can,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: that's again, why we had all the weird sex videos
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: that came out of that too. It's like, finally you
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: had freedom to do whatever horrible thing you wanted on
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: video and capture it for everyone to be horrified by.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: And now it's like a complete website dedicated to like,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: all right, here's every disgusting, gruesome thing that happened within
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: the last, say three hours, you know?
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: And I, that's what I, again, I think seeing that
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: little window of time where, nobody else could do that
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: or knew of that or like it was so new
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: to everybody that like most people didn't have cameras didn't
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: have access to them or if you did it was
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: they were just figuring them out and shooting bad home
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: videos and like finding this this horrible person who then
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: went oh you know what we can do with it
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: and then watching them kind of sit there and relive
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: it is whole extra layer of perversion. It's just creepy.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: And again, even in the moment, Henry is like, what
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: are you doing? And Otis is like, I want to
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: watch it again. Yeah.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: Again, Otis taking it a step further. Henry's like, okay,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: we've seen it. like you know Otis keeps diving in
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: deeper and deeper every step of the way to the
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: point that he goes too far.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: Do you think I mean I know they closed the
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: books and his own father has accepted it like did
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: were you of the mind that he killed Adam Walsh.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know again I don't remember hearing a ton
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: about that specific one so I need to I guess
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: go back That's a weird little connection, though, because that
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: became such a huge story in and of itself. Again,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: that seems odd. Again, because they're both so well-known in
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: their own rights that that also crossed over. That seems
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: very strange.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: There was also talk that Jeffrey Dahmer worked in a
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: store down nearby where they lived at the time. But
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: that seems like not his MO. He was always into
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: older teen guys and middle 20s guys.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: And again, a very specific way of doing things. All
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: of his followed that same little routine to the point
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: of even taking care of the bodies was a very
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: specific routine. So yeah, Henry didn't seem like he cared
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: about a routine whatsoever.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, was it like disorganized or something they call versus organized? Yeah,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's ritual. Like the serial killing thing many times,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: almost all the time, is ritualistic. If Henry was smart
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 4: enough to say like, all right, well, I'm just going
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: to do it a bunch of different ways so that
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: there's no pattern that the police can follow. But it
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: was almost exclusively women, right?
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: There's again, it would always be a man in conjunction
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: with a woman. I don't think he ever. Well, no,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: the Good Samaritan was just a guy by himself. But then, yeah,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: like the shop they show at the beginning in the
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: liquor store that they're both laying there dead. There's a
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: man and a woman, which, again, I think that was
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: a photo that was taken from a real Henry Lucas
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: crime scene. Um, so again, I can't, that one almost
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: looks like a holdup. Like did he like stage it
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: to look like that just to be one more thing
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: to throw them off track when they were trying to
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: piece together, nothing that gets pieced together. And then the,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: the father in the little scenario with the family. So
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: it's like he did a few guys, but it's still.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: And the prostitutes didn't seem like they set out to
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: do it because. Oh, to seem surprised, like what the
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: hell are you doing?
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: Um, So that was more opportunistic than planned.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. And again, probably different than the real one,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: not delving into the real case, but in the movie,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: it was also like, because most of them, it's a
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: very sexualized thing where Henry in this film doesn't seem, again,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: I think he's so awkward with intimacy whatsoever. Like, do
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: we ever see him really get involved? He makes out
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: with that prostitute barely before he snaps her neck. So
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: it's like, Do we feel like he's ever doing anything
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: sexual with these women or he just wants to kill women?
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: And that's his thing like that.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: It's one of those. Usually there's a weird sexual angle
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: with it that I don't ever really get from this.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: This Henry.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he seems asexual. And even when he's it's something
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: as sort of innocent as like he's dancing with Becky
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: and she kisses him. He looks very sheepish. And both times.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: She kisses him on the lips and she kisses him
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: on the cheek and both times he looks sheepish and
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: he wipes it away.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: He seems weirded out by any interaction whatsoever. So I'm like,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: I feel like he's not even doing anything else with
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: these bodies. He just needs to kill people and that's
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: his thing. So I think, again, Otis takes it to
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: that other level where he starts wanting to make out
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: with dead bodies or his sister or everything is weird
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: and perverted in a different way when Otis gets involved.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel like Henry didn't really even bring
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: that to the table. His was a different... Which I
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: like that even I think the director referred to it
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: as like murder is his vocation. Like it is what
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: he does, which is kind of like when you see him,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: it's like when he comes home, it's like he's coming
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: home from work.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: Here's a guitar I found, by the way. That was
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: a great setup. Just watching that girl get in the
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: car and be like, here, look what I got for you.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: And like, we don't need anything else. We don't even
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: need the scene where it happens. that's perfect.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 4: You know exactly what happened.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: That's yeah. That's such great. Just structuring for the movie.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: He didn't just steal her guitar.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think he left her by the side
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: of the road hitchhiking anymore. He left her by the
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: side of the road, but no, it's yeah. I think
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff is, is part of it. The
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: fact that, you know, he really does seem like, well,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: going off to work and he just murders people. And
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: like that again, I, as this, film version of henry
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: goes i think that's way more interesting because it is
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: kind of what he feels like he needs to do
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: but not even for any weird you know sexual reasons
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: it's just it's his calling he needs to go kill people.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: Most important thing is to keep moving that way they
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 5: might never catch up to you i'm gonna have to
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 5: pack up and be on the move too pretty soon
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: where are you going nowhere you want to come We
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: can be back this way in about a month.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 6: I'm not supposed to leave the state without telling you.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 5: So who's gonna know as long as you show up
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 5: when you're just supposed to?
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: What if they check up on me at work?
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Well, no plan's perfect.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: Also, like, when the movie came out, it was at
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: the same time, like you say, it sort of hearkened
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: the end of anonymity.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: Where, you know, in this country, it's like, you know, sure,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: you had social security numbers and that kind of shit,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: but as time went on, like, 70s into the 80s,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: it was, like, you could remain more anonymous. Now it's, like,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: fucking forget it. Like, there's no possible way.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: By this point, mid-80s into the 90s, everything became logged
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: into the system. Everything became computerized, and, like, there was, it's,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: even now, like, if you think somebody trying to get
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: off the grid, you know, even if they're not killing people,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: they just want to go have a commune somewhere, you know, it's, like,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: that's really hard to do. Like, you can't get out
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: of the system now, whereas, like, Because I think back
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: of that, you know, killing people in like the 40s
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: and 50s, you could just move to another town. Like
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: that was it. That's all you needed to do.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 4: And just tell people like, my name is this now.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: Nobody checked anything. You could go get a job. Like
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: you could, you know, you didn't have to worry about
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: any of that stuff because nobody could check your background
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: in any way if they didn't know you. If you moved,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: you were a whole new person.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting watching it at that point where everything's
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: about to change where you can't do that stuff anymore.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: And even if you purposely don't put yourself out there,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: it's like somebody might put your, you know, your yearbook
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: picture on there. Hey, this is the class of whatever.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 4: And then suddenly you're up there, you know, by not
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: your doing. But yeah, I mean, you watch the forensic
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: file type stuff or the cop shows and, you know,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: somebody's like, oh, well, I didn't commit this crime because
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: I was here. And they're like, well, you made a
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: cell phone call and it pinged off this tower and blah, blah, blah.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 4: And it's like, so you're full of shit. And why people,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, you watch this. And again, I asked my
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: friend who's the cop in New York. I was like,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: most criminals are just stupid, right? Like they just don't
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: think these things through. And he's like, yeah, most of
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: them are pretty dumb.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 6: Pretty dumb.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: But then sometimes if we're doing real stories, some cops
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: are pretty dumb too. Because yesterday on the radio, they
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: were telling the story of, A criminal, and he was
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: sort of getting released, but they were putting him on
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: the ankle bracelet program, and he had a fake leg,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: and they put it on the fake leg. So he
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: took the leg off and went and killed somebody else,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: and eventually they caught him, but after he killed another man.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, really? This didn't occur to you? His prosthetic
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: leg is not the best place to put the ankle bracelet.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: To figure out where he's at? You know that criminal
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: was like, I can't believe it. You know he's.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: Sitting there watching him do it going, Yeah. Yeah, that's, no,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: I'm fine.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: Like, this is amazing.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: See you guys later.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 4: I'll be at home. You'll know I'm there. And not
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: even like, hey, man, now I can go to the
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: movies or like, you know, walk around freely. He's like,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: now I can kill somebody else.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: He immediately went, I can kill somebody. I was like, well,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: this is why the system isn't working so well, is it?
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, but yeah, this, I don't know. With this one,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: I guess I just wanted to, by the end of
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: it here, figure out. Because it is, and that's why
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: I was sort of touching on your movie earlier. It's
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: like when you get, because this is another one that
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: is just dark territory. Like there's just, and even, you know,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: our director says, he's like, I wanted to tell a
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: story that had no hope that these characters were doomed
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: from the beginning. And like that was his objective going in.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: So it's like when you're telling that story, like what
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: is the end result? Like what are we, when there
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: is something that like, We have that moment. I was
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: going to address that too. We have the lady with
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: the dog. There's that moment of almost like, is Henry changing?
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: Because in any other situation in the movie, we see
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: him interact with somebody and they're dead. He immediately is like, well,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: here's my next person to take care of as my job.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to kill this person. And he stops
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: with the lady with the dog. And that's also when
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: he's sort of mulling over the Becky offer. Do we
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: think for a second there, like, he was thinking of changing? Again,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: in the real world, probably not at all. But this
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: Henry in the movie, was there a version of him
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: that was going to leave town, go back home with Becky,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: maybe stop killing people? Like, at least there was that
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: second of him thinking about it.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because he's like, I'll think about it. Don't think
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 4: too long, Henry. Maybe, yeah, like, maybe, I mean, Otis
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: is dead at this point, and he's like, maybe I
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 4: can live sort of a normal life. And like he
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 4: gives it a brief thought and then he's like, yeah.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: That was right before. I think Otis is what put
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: it back on track. I think it was one of
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: those if he could have gotten away with with Becky
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: and left Otis behind and like not killed anybody. I
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: think it was that the taking out of, you know,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: who was had become his friend and partner in this,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: like somehow that just like. nope that's it it's just
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: slalom down the rest of the hill like there's no
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: getting out of it even to the point of taking
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: Becky along with him so it's like yeah there I
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: just again I like that moment of like he almost
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: did have enough that it saved a person and hopefully
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: the dog would have been fine but He don't kill
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: the dog. But yeah, just for that moment of indecision
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: there where he's like, maybe I don't want to keep
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: killing people. Maybe there is hope to go live at
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Becky's mom's house and get a job and be a
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: normal person. But yeah, I think we know better, really.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: But I like that moment.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 4: And then much like the guitar scene, you don't need
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: to see it. You just see him throwing that her
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: suitcase out on the side. And you're like, I know
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 4: what's in there. Yeah.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: That is one of those, yeah, like, my friend David,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: I used to ride around all the time going on
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: road trips, and every time we would see something on the,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: either like a trash bag or like a suitcase, there
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: would be weird stuff you'll see on the side of
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: the road. You'd be like, oh, there it is. Like,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: having sat and watched Henry, we're just like, yeah, we
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: know what's in there. So that became a running joke that,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: Now I look for on the side of the road,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: on the highways, just dead bodies.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: It's a very small detail, too, but when Otis picks
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 4: up Becky from the airport, she has that heavy bag,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 4: and then she has sort of a shopping bag.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: And Otis picks up the shopping bag. He's like, come on.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: He picks up the shopping bag, and then she struggles
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: with that heavy suitcase.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: That's the perfect little version of Otis.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it shows what a dick he is, like how
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 4: thoughtless right out of the gate.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, pretty much.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 4: And when you mentioned Volger, the end was structured in
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: a way that I didn't want to kill our hero.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: And at the same time, I wanted to show what
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 4: he was willing to do. He was willing to kill
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 4: those guys. He was going to show up and he's like,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: I'm going to take them out. But the circumstances were
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: such that they all got taken out, but not by him.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 4: But he would have done it.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I thought was interesting in yours is
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: like it. it doesn't even take the traditional turn where
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: we get this triumphant, Oh, well he got his revenge.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: And that's, you know, especially in American movies, that's what
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: we want. We just want vengeance. And like, you know,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: that we get a Charles Bronson ending, but like, he
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: wants the Charles Bronson ending and then he's still kind
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: of a bumbling.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: He's still ineffective.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: Like he still can't make even that work. He still
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: can't even get revenge. Right. So it, yeah, it ends
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: up right in the grand scheme, I guess these guys
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: are taken out, but yeah, we don't even get that.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's, that's kind of what I was thinking
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: as we were coming into both these movies here. I'm
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: just like, there's such a grim tone in Henry too,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: that I'm like, what do you take from it at
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: the end? Like what, again, because we don't get the
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: real world, Henry, we get, the Henry that drives away
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: and goes on. And we, far as we know, within
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: the context of the movie, he just goes on killing
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: people because the cops don't seem to pay attention to
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: what he does.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 6: So, right.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Unless you look it up and know that like
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: he eventually got caught.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: Which again, it depends if how real world he was.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: Cause I think there was an idea to do a
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: sequel with this director where he was going to address
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: the fact that he gets busted and goes to prison
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: and becomes sort of a celebrity in the prison system.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: And like, so, From that angle, it would at least
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: be the real closer to the real Henry story. But again,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: I feel like this Henry in this movie is his
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: own thing. And like, that's kind of the way I
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: always took it. Like, it's just that that's his story
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: is he's always on the road, always doing what he
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: wants to do. Probably just killing people like I never
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: saw it as like. And then somewhere down the line,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: the real story gets involved in his. But like, I
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: just loved. that it just kind of leaves it like that.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: And it leaves you by the side of the road,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: like Becky, just here's how it ends.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: He goes off and you don't know what he's going
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 4: to do.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: Well, you kind of know what he's going.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: To do, but yeah, but that's like, that is his
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: ending is like, this is what he does. Like we
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: had that moment of indecision and he went with the
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: way he knows best and he'll continue on down the road,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: killing people.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: Doing his job.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like, I think that's, it's grim, but that's, yeah, he, uh, Again,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: he even described him as, like, because he was brought
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: in to make a horror movie. Because it's so real world,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: it's like he was trying to make, you know, Otis
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: and Henry monsters in their own sense. It's like that's
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: what they are, essentially. And this is our, like, modern
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: day version of a monster who doesn't really know right
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: or wrong and, like, does horrible things and just continues
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: on with their day.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 4: Well, it's also the reality of things is that, you know,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: for every... serial killer that gets caught and you're like,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 4: you know, like, oh my God, this, you know, how
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 4: many guys this guy killed? There's like, you know, the
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 4: Long Island guy who, you know, they haven't caught or
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: the Mesa, Vera, all the women's bones and stuff.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: There's three more living across the street from you that
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: you don't know about.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the people that will never get caught or maybe
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 4: not get caught for that, you know, the Zodiac, you know,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 4: guys like him.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: Decades that went on.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you don't know if like, okay, maybe
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 4: he died or maybe... He got put in jail for
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 4: something else. Or going back to BTK, maybe he took
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 4: an unusually long cooling off period. So these people are
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: out there and you never know. Like your friends, you
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: never know who they may be.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: You never know where they are. They might be living
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: next to you.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: It's creepy.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining in on this discussion. And
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: I guess tell people you've got a couple of different
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: things going on. So I guess tell people where to
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: find you and what they need to go listen to
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: and watch and all of the above.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 4: Oh, so many projects I'm involved with, yes. The one
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 4: that's nearest and dearest to my heart is the podcast
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 4: I do with Walt and Brian Quinn of Impractical Jokers
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 4: called Tell Them Steve Dave, and that's on iTunes sometimes.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 4: iTunes has a bad reputation lately.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: I kind of forget it's a thing. I don't know
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: anybody who uses it really, but it's so huge. I'm
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: sure there's still tons of people that do, but Nobody
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: brings it up anymore.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, all I hear are complaints that, like, these episodes
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 4: are missing. I'm like, I don't know, go to SoundCloud
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 4: or whatever. I don't know. And then Comic Book Men,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 4: which we're shooting this summer, so I'm sure there's a
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 4: way you can be on it. I don't know what
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: that way is.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: I have a question for Comic Book Men, and only
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: as a podcasting tech geek. How many other microphones are
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: going when you're shooting those scenes?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 4: The um which which ones not the.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: Not the the old school uh condenser mics that are
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: sitting on the table.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 4: That aren't working that i was just like.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: I was like kevin is nowhere near that microphone this
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: podcast would sound like shit yeah yeah so again being
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: my dorky podcasting self i was just like that no bullshit.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah everyone is everyone is mic'd up and they're just
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: kind of dressing If they relied on that sound, it
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 4: would sound like crap.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: Or again, it would be like, you can crank those
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: up and then get the whole room, but then it echoes.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: So being tech geek, I've now become, I wasn't when
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: I started, but now I've become. So yeah, I had
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: my dorky tech questions. Yes, watch Comic Book Man.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we're coming back in October after that other show
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 4: you might have heard of, Walking Dead.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: That Merle guy's gone, never mind.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: So anything else or just leave it at that?
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 4: That's pretty much it. All right.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining in and picking an awesome
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: movie that I needed to rewatch.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 6: It had been a while.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 4: There you go. Thanks for having me.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: Very cool. Otherwise, that about does it. We will return
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: next time, same geek feed. Thanks for listening.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 4: Oh, is this PG? What is your.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, you can, yeah.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what the internet's for. Constant cursing.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, shit! What did you do that for?
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 4: I guess I got carried away.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 6: Well, I guess you did, Otis. This episode is a
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 6: production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by The Oddity Studios.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 6: with opening music performed by the Empires. For more on
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 6: how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: Talk hard!