Latest / Pastor Plek's Podcast / When A Birth Becomes A Goodbye

Transcript

When A Birth Becomes A Goodbye · Pastor Plek's Podcast

0:05
SPEAKER_00: And welcome back to Pastor Plex Podcast.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Pastor Plex, and joining me today is none other than Chris and Christine Blazel.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: So glad to have you guys on.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: All right.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about something pretty heavy today, so everyone buckle up.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh so hey, Chris, Christine, you guys just endured something very tragic.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, talk, walk me through first what happened, and I would love to hear like perspective for you as a mom who has three children and you've lost another.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: So let's I want to kind of get into all of that.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: So let's just talk, let's just get jump right in.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: What happened?
0:44
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: You can start like the night before.
0:46
unknown: Okay.
0:48
SPEAKER_04: So I was um 41 and five days pregnant.
0:54
SPEAKER_04: And we so in this 41 weeks and 41, yes, 41 weeks, five days.
0:59
SPEAKER_04: Um this pregnancy, we decided that we were gonna do a home birth.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever done a home birthday?
1:05
SPEAKER_04: No, not before.
1:06
SPEAKER_04: So the other three were pretty standard hospitals.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: What triggered the I don't want to do hospital?
1:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:11
SPEAKER_04: So I I mean, I've had really easy pregnancies in the past, really blessed with like no complications or issues.
1:20
SPEAKER_04: And but, you know, when it comes to postpartum and like just having a baby, I just find that the hospital is extremely uncomfortable.
1:29
SPEAKER_04: And um I uh wanted to, I've heard so many, you know, home home birth stories about, you know, just so much more peace and like comfort in that time.
1:41
SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, this our plan going into it would be like this is probably our last child.
1:47
SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, I was like, let's just let's do a home birth.
1:51
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:52
SPEAKER_04: So um, yeah.
1:54
SPEAKER_04: So going into uh, so I was 41 weeks, five days leading up to it.
1:59
SPEAKER_04: We were trying to do as much as we could to have baby come uh naturally.
2:05
SPEAKER_04: And so just like, you know, kind of anything that you could search on Google trying to do different things.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Like you jump into a pool.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: Did you try like like you dive?
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I heard maybe that's just when I heard dive into a pool.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh, maybe that's just to try to get your baby to flip.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh, like what were some of the things you do to to I don't know, what's the home remedy?
2:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of like old wives tales things.
2:27
SPEAKER_04: I we didn't so much do those, but like I had a midwife, and so she um with her, we did a couple like medical things, like membrane sweep stuff, and then um also did like pumping and did some pumping, pump like um breast smoke, breast smoke pumping.
2:45
SPEAKER_04: Oh wow, right, prior to you know, maybe sorry, yeah.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: Of course it's that's what it is.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh yeah, sorry.
2:52
SPEAKER_04: Not like pumping in the chest.
2:53
SPEAKER_04: Right.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh wow, this is sorry, yeah.
2:55
SPEAKER_04: And then you know, I'm doing lots of like pelvic exercises, you know, to get things moving and um herbal like tinctures, which sounds pretty like uh homeopathic.
3:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, homeopathic, little hippie.
3:09
SPEAKER_04: Um and what else do we do?
3:12
SPEAKER_00: You live on the ball.
3:13
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, that's the ball.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Exercise ball lived on that thing for is that the thing you sit on like for ergonomic, like like core work.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, core work, yeah.
3:22
SPEAKER_04: So like again, like pelvic, you know, movements.
3:26
SPEAKER_04: Um let's see.
3:27
SPEAKER_04: We also did uh what else?
3:31
SPEAKER_04: You did curb walk, like yeah, I did lots of curb walking.
3:34
SPEAKER_04: What's curb walking?
3:35
SPEAKER_04: You just walk like um uneven on a curb.
3:38
SPEAKER_04: Right foot on the curb, left foot.
3:39
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh huh.
3:40
SPEAKER_04: Um, and then drank four kids, dude.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Like this is like we just went showed up and I don't know.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: It happened.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:48
SPEAKER_04: Um, drank castor oil.
3:50
SPEAKER_04: Um, do not recommend.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Um that's a great way to lose weight.
3:54
SPEAKER_04: Is it just being oh gosh, yeah.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: This is nasty.
3:57
SPEAKER_04: It was disgusting.
3:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
3:58
SPEAKER_04: I ate it in ice cream, so I didn't really want to eat ice cream very much after that.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow, that's a great way.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's that's good.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:04
SPEAKER_04: Astro oil and curb your appetite.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: Okay, got it.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: We've never been that late before.
4:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no.
4:11
SPEAKER_04: All three kids came either early or at like 40%.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: But you weren't panicked.
4:16
SPEAKER_04: It wasn't like No, I mean, there was a point where I was, but we we also did and at the recommendation of my midwife, we did a couple like scans.
4:25
SPEAKER_04: So at like 39, almost 40 weeks, and then at 41 and two days, we they scanned everything.
4:31
SPEAKER_04: So they did like a scan of baby to make sure baby was growing okay, amniotic fluid, um heart rates, good rate, yeah.
4:40
SPEAKER_04: Really any test where they could be like, oh, do we need to induce or is she good to like keep going?
4:46
SPEAKER_04: And so that 41 and two, the test at 41 weeks and two days, that test was basically valid, they say, for like three days.
4:55
SPEAKER_04: So we were like, okay, we're safe to basically get to 41 and six, like before you need to.
5:03
SPEAKER_04: Before I need to induce.
5:05
SPEAKER_04: And so that was the plan.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so tell me the relationship with the midwife, because um it's uh the only thing I could think of even sort of sort of similar to be like your gynecologist, and like that's someone you're super close to for the most part, but this seems like even closer.
5:22
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: And tell me why.
5:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I mean, my and I'm sure every person's experience is different, but like with a gynecologist, my experience in the past is that like they're very like straightforward.
5:34
SPEAKER_04: It's like, you know, do you have any questions?
5:37
SPEAKER_04: Nope.
5:38
SPEAKER_04: Okay, see you later.
5:39
SPEAKER_04: Like, it's the appointments are quick, they don't really dig deep.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: You're you're in, you're out.
5:43
SPEAKER_04: Keep moving.
5:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, they've got a lot of clients, so they're just kind of shuffling through.
5:48
SPEAKER_04: With my midwife, I mean, uh, you know, she would literally ask about everything from sleep to exercise to diet to, you know, like tell me about the tiniest details of like what's going on with your body so that she could give direction and help.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: And how often did you see her compared to how often you saw it kind of called?
6:04
SPEAKER_04: It was the same same amount, yeah.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: But it it seemed like a deeper relationship.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Why why is that?
6:11
SPEAKER_04: Um I think just because of the nature of like what a midwife is able to do versus like what a doctor kind of a doctor sticks, I would say sticks within like their box of um yeah, like standard of care.
6:26
SPEAKER_04: Standard of care.
6:27
SPEAKER_04: Whereas a midwife, um, they can't really do as much from a medical perspective because they're not like licensed medical doctors, but um they I think look at things more holistically.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so now you're you're at 41 weeks, it becomes 41 weeks, five days.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: What happens?
6:46
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so um that that was the day that I did castor oil.
6:50
SPEAKER_04: And so the expectation is like if anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen like pretty quickly, probably within 12 hours.
6:59
SPEAKER_04: And so um I drank it at like noon that day.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: So castor oil is that's like a thing.
7:05
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and actually there's a couple girls like in my community group and other people that I've heard that have that did castor oil and it worked.
7:11
SPEAKER_04: So it's pretty effective from what I would hope.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: So but but it was effective for you.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden you went to or all of a sudden, or well eventually you went too late.
7:20
SPEAKER_04: Eventually, yeah.
7:21
SPEAKER_04: So it was probably like 10 30 p.m., right?
7:26
SPEAKER_04: You think?
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:28
SPEAKER_04: When I started having some contractions.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Um you had been having them like all yeah, you've had them all leading up to it, and then we're like, we were like, hey, is this like are they consistent enough?
7:39
SPEAKER_02: Are they intense enough?
7:41
SPEAKER_02: And I yeah, I think it was yeah, 10, 10, 30.
7:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:45
SPEAKER_04: So you you have no idea what this is, but there's such a thing as prodromal labor.
7:50
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
7:51
SPEAKER_04: Which is basically, and it happens most often with like subsequent pre pregnancies.
7:56
SPEAKER_04: Okay um, where like you could have consistent contractions as early as like, you know, 37 or 38 weeks pregnant.
8:06
SPEAKER_04: And so the thing with labor that you always look for is like consistent pre uh contractions that progress.
8:14
SPEAKER_04: And with prodromal labor, they're consistent, but they don't progress.
8:18
SPEAKER_04: And so it kind of tricks you.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, like I always I know about the Braxton Hicks contraction, which is like a fake thing, but is it sort of like that?
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Sort of, but it's real contractions that aren't doing anything.
8:29
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so they're similar because Braxton Hicks, they're not they're like not consistent at all and they don't progress.
8:36
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
8:36
SPEAKER_04: Um, so Pradromal is consistent, consistent, but doesn't progress.
8:40
SPEAKER_04: Got it.
8:41
SPEAKER_04: And so that's how you know, like eventually they'll just stop, they'll just die out.
8:44
SPEAKER_04: And so you could be having consistent contractions for like two hours and then it just stops.
8:49
SPEAKER_04: And so it's really a mental game.
8:51
SPEAKER_04: Oh gosh.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: So she'd be on the ball for like laboring for like 20 hours or whatever, and you just yeah, it's hard.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um, so yeah, I mean that was happening for weeks leading up to you'd be on the ball for like an hour and then she'd be like, okay, if you get off and they keep going, then but they'd never, it would like they would stop.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: It would stop as soon as you get off the ball.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:12
unknown: Yeah.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: And okay, all right.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we were going back and forth with that for a long time.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: And then it was yeah, like she starts having the contractions at 10 30 on Friday night, and we're like, all right, well, let's uh let's check in like 30 minutes, like maybe we'll update.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Because she was hesitant to like call or text the midwife because it was late.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: We were like constant communication at that point, and um And you've probably been texting, like, hey, I think this is it.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: She did she come out before you're like, Oh, sorry, false alarm.
9:42
SPEAKER_04: There was a a couple days prior, I was having those consistent contractions, and they were close together, they were like five minutes apart, which is usually like that's it's like, oh, it's this happening.
9:52
SPEAKER_04: Um, but it it stopped.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: So okay.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: So um tractions, 10 30 at night, they keep happening.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: When do you say, Hey, let's get over here, let's do this.
10:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so it was probably 11:30.
10:06
SPEAKER_04: 11 well, yeah, at 1130 is when we called her, probably.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think so.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: And no, it was I think it was 11:30 when they started when we started tracking them and put a timer because it was it was 12:30 when I called her and she got over there at 1.15.
10:24
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
10:24
SPEAKER_04: Well, we called her twice.
10:26
SPEAKER_04: So the first time we called her, I think we just informed her, like, hey, we think this is happening because they were more intense at the time.
10:33
SPEAKER_04: And so she was like, Okay, do you want me to come over now or do you want to wait and you know, give me another call?
10:39
SPEAKER_04: And I said, We'll just we'll give you another call back because you know, I didn't want it to be like I didn't want her to come too soon.
10:46
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
10:47
SPEAKER_04: So then Chris calls her again at 12:30.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're you're are you in the shower?
10:53
SPEAKER_02: Are you about to go in the shower?
10:54
SPEAKER_02: About to, yeah.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and that you're the they're intense, and she's at that point you can't even really can she talk on the phone, not really, not yeah.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: So she couldn't even like talk through the the uh pain, yeah, the contraction.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: So that was like a good, like positive.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: So you were in the right direction.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: So then I start like I call her, and then I'm like starting to run around on like chicken with my head cut off, trying to get the house set up because I'm like, I I've been waiting.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: I didn't like know when the date was gonna be.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Right, of course.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, wait, what do I have to do?
11:24
SPEAKER_02: So like I had to prep the bed, I have to fill up the um the pool.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: Um what kind of a pool is it?
11:30
SPEAKER_02: It's just like a blow-up pool.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just an inflatable.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like a hot tub.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: Okay, got it.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, okay, got it.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: And um, so she shows up and I'm like trying to find all the prep stuff, and um the midwife comes in and she starts like, you know, checking Christine.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Christine's in the shower.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: I get her out, bed's ready, put her on the bed, and um then I'm continuing to do my thing, and I'm like, but I'm a mess because I'm like, the I never I didn't check the adapter to fill the pool up, the hose, but it didn't fit.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh no, my one job is ruined.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, how am I gonna fix this?
12:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, I'm probably gonna duct tape.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: Duct tape's gonna work.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking all about this stuff, and as I'm like prepping and getting things ready, um, our midwife's like, hey Chris, stop what you're doing, like right now.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, she starts calling 911.
12:22
SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah.
12:23
SPEAKER_04: So, like backing up a little bit.
12:25
SPEAKER_04: Um, so I I was having in a lot of pain.
12:29
SPEAKER_04: And so I was in the shower, and because it's like the shower, like the water on your back helps with the pain and so of the contractions.
12:37
SPEAKER_04: And so I was in there, but I was like, I couldn't even stand.
12:41
SPEAKER_04: I was um not well.
12:44
SPEAKER_04: And it like it was definitely contractions.
12:47
SPEAKER_04: Like I was clearly, I was like, the labor had progressed pretty quickly.
12:53
SPEAKER_04: And um, like my body was was pushing.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: Um and but I also felt like a lot of pain that I didn't eat maybe expect or like anticipate, or and it just felt like was it different than like, and this is the part that I just you know, as a man, I have no idea, but like when you had babies before, was it like epidural?
13:17
SPEAKER_00: And or did you have any like so was this new pain?
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Like this, you can tell this is like not labor pain, this is something else.
13:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it definitely like I didn't know for sure because I I had never done a full natural birth before, but it definitely like my head head was telling me like this is different.
13:38
SPEAKER_04: Um, but like I didn't know either, you know.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: Um like that night you were complaining, like your back was hurting.
13:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
13:45
SPEAKER_04: I had like which back back pain in labor is like not an unusual thing, but it was like really like with contractions, the thing is is like they they you know come go up and then they go down, and you have like a little bit of break depending on where you're at in labor, and then you know, they start.
14:01
SPEAKER_04: And my pain was like pretty constant, um in like maybe like a breath or two of like where I wasn't feeling pain.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:11
SPEAKER_04: So that's pretty intense.
14:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and not normal.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you have like a really high pain and yeah, threshold and tolerance.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: And like when you were in the shower, like on the floor, you're like you couldn't get up.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: I had to like carry you to the bed.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, yeah.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so so the midwife calls 911, and like that's like you're like, whoa, what are we calling?
14:34
SPEAKER_02: Were you like I wasn't really freaking out yet?
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, she was checking, she doesn't tell me what's going on, like what she's checking for.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh she might have said something about like the baby's heart rate or something, but I was like, wasn't in freak out mode.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: I just packed a bag like we were going to the hospital, kind of.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't even like drinking like emergency, but I called, I started making phone calls and getting because we had the kids at the house.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so and it's it's it's yeah, 1 30 at this point.
14:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
14:59
SPEAKER_04: So how long did it take for the ambulance to get there?
15:02
SPEAKER_04: It was 15 minutes, I think, or 11 minutes, maybe it was somewhere around there.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so boom.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: It was quick.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was you are you and the midwife in the ambulance and you're packing stuff up.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: No, I already packed and I was Did you go in the ambulance?
15:18
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I rode in the ambulance.
15:21
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: Did your parents come over with take the kids?
15:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they wouldn't, they for whatever reason they had some issues with their phone.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: They didn't pick up.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: And my neighbors across the street become like really good friends.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: We've only lived in this neighborhood for a year.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: And they uh he was like, I called my neighbor, I'm like, hey, can you come over?
15:36
SPEAKER_02: Like my uh in-laws aren't picking up.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, man, I just got off work, come straight over, and like he he does some help with um security and um like fire department stuff.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: So he was like kind of really helpful.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Like with you know, we had like six or seven EMS personnel like coming in the house and gurneying her out and uh oh gosh, yeah.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: Then I'm in and that yeah, I rode in the ambulance with her, and the um midwife wrote uh followed us.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: So you're in you know you're in the ambulance.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: What's going through your head, Chris?
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm in in shock already.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm not really like freak out mode.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: I'm like everything's gonna be okay.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: Like we're I'm praying.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like the ride's taking a kind of a long time.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: It took us a while to get there.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, it felt like 15 minutes.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: And I was like kind of sitting there.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I wonder how much of an emergency this is.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like listening, like, do we have the uh lights and sirens on?
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I couldn't really hear them, but I guess they would only use it at certain points, like they had to get through because it's the middle of the night, right?
16:39
SPEAKER_02: There's no cars out there.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: So about are you are you awake or are you Yeah, I was awake.
16:46
SPEAKER_04: I had they give me like an oxygen tank and um Are you laying there just staring at the ceiling?
16:51
SPEAKER_04: I guess pretty much.
16:52
SPEAKER_04: Like I I was I don't it's weird, like I don't really have any vivid like memories of how I felt in that time.
17:00
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
17:00
SPEAKER_04: Um I was definitely like I was still in pain, so that's probably where like a lot of my thoughts were going.
17:09
SPEAKER_04: Um and yeah, I mean I I didn't yeah, I don't know.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: I was probably in a little bit of a lot of pain too.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: So I mean yours is probably in a lot of pain too.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: So you arrive at which hospital?
17:27
SPEAKER_04: Texas Children's Um I don't know if that's I don't know.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Ascension, right?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's right.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: It's Texas Children's.
17:35
SPEAKER_04: It's not Dell Children's, it's um it's close by.
17:40
SPEAKER_04: It's around there, yeah.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: So you you you hop in there or hop in, you drive in, they pull you out, they take you to an emergency room of some sort, and w what are you what are they doing to you?
17:53
SPEAKER_00: Are they are you are you awake or you go out?
17:56
SPEAKER_00: What what's what happens?
17:57
SPEAKER_04: I'm awake.
17:58
SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, I mean, like the that experience was is kind of like surreal to to look back on because I'm like face up, like I'm only looking at this the ceiling the whole time, wheeling me back, and like people are just like on every side of me.
18:16
SPEAKER_04: Um and I'm in the we go to the triage room, I think, and I don't know how many people are in that room.
18:24
SPEAKER_04: Like, I just know there's like so much going on.
18:27
SPEAKER_04: And um I think probably one of the first questions they asked was if I like wanted to push.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't remember that.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe.
18:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't know.
18:38
SPEAKER_04: I I don't remember exactly like if they they were probably like taking a lot of things.
18:44
SPEAKER_04: Maybe you're maybe, yeah.
18:46
SPEAKER_04: But at one point, the like lead triage person person she asked if I wanted to push, and I said no.
18:53
SPEAKER_04: Um, because and like at the time I didn't realize this, but like thinking back, like I I think my contractions had stopped at that time.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: And so And as a birthing laboring mother, the only time you should push is when the contractions are going, right?
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that when you flexes, you go and you help you kind of, and but if it's not, it's like you're kind of pushing against the the grain or yeah, like in in that's yeah, for whatever reason, that just seemed like that would just be like an incredible amount of pain that I didn't want.
19:25
SPEAKER_04: So um, and then they were checking on some things.
19:29
SPEAKER_04: I'm not quite sure what all happened, but then I know they were looking for a heartbeat, right?
19:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
19:37
SPEAKER_04: And they couldn't find one or so I don't know how long it took, like it I don't think it took that long, but it seemed like you know, they were looking for a while for the heartbeat, and then um they and this part of this is like what the doctor had told us afterwards, but like she heard two heartbeats.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Um I I was that when we get in there, um, get wheeled into the triage room, and like there's there's like six nurses, the um ob this little lady um checking on her, and they I and then there's a couple EMS personnel in there.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: And I guess you know, they weren't telling us or telling me much in anything.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: I guess they said that they didn't have a heartbeat.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: EMS didn't get a heartbeat at the house.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh I didn't know that.
20:30
SPEAKER_02: And then they were checking for heartbeat, and um, everyone's like buzzing around trying to, you know, do their job, whatever.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: And then like the the doctor's like, yeah, we don't have a heartbeat.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: And then like the the oxygen, every like you could hear a pin drop, everyone was like quiet, like kind of just stopped doing what they were doing.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, What is happening?
20:52
SPEAKER_02: Then she kind of like, all right, I'm gonna give it another shot.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: She goes back in and like, let me see if I can find one.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: And it was like the most like beep beep, like tiny little they registered to, and they're like, Let's go.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: And the whole crew left.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: Like, just let me left me and the midwife in the room, and they were gone like quick uh to take her to emergency C-section right away to get the baby out.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: What would have happened if they didn't have a heartbeat?
21:21
SPEAKER_02: The plan is they just allow her to deliver the baby naturally.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: All right.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: So or they pull like kind of pull the baby out.
21:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think they have to do like some sort of push and pull.
21:33
SPEAKER_04: Oh gosh.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: So you go into emergency C section.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: What do you know at this point?
21:42
SPEAKER_04: Um I'll all I know is they had they like caught that little heartbeat, and um and that was it.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: What's the next thing you remember?
21:53
SPEAKER_04: So then I'm wheeled in and they're gosh, like the amount of people running around is Like I can still see it, like it's it's crazy and it's chaotic.
22:05
SPEAKER_04: And um they and then like I go under and okay.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: And then the next thing you remember was waking up, waking up in the morning.
22:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: All right.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: So back to you, Krista.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Like you she gets wheeled in.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Are you in there when they're doing an emergency C section?
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Where are you at that point?
22:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm I'm still in that that triage room.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: Me and the midwife are in there.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: They they're like, Yeah, you can't come to the operating room.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: So you know, it's just like they just leave us in there.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: And uh, so I just at that point, I'm like, okay, it's I'm serious, serious.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm praying.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, I ask the midwife, like, hey, like, what's how long are we gonna be in here waiting?
22:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: She's like, hey, the baby comes out in like two minutes, like right away.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then they're wrapping her up, and and it's takes 45 minutes, is kind of the whole procedure.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: So we should have like info.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just waiting, like on my knees, like praying, and um, she's praying too, and and then praying.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: What was I praying?
23:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like what were you saying?
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Man, I don't even know anymore.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, it was you know, I was in shock.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm praying for baby night to be okay, for Christine to be okay.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm kind of lost, you know, like uh there's just there's a lot of stillness and quiet like in my prayer too.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, because it's it's a while.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: I didn't it's pretty much prayer nonstop.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: I didn't have anything else.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: It was like 45 minutes then.
23:33
SPEAKER_02: No, it's so we get a knock on the door like 20 minutes later.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and a security guard, and he's like, Hey, um, dad, like, come with me.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, all right.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: He's like, Hey man, I don't know anything.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: They just told me to come get you.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: So then we're like walking, he's like speed walking.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm like having to jog, keep up with this guy.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: And so like they get us um into the wherever I'm at in the hospital, I don't know.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: I keep it's like a maze for me.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: I've never been there, and right, it's like confusing.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: Everything looks the same.
24:02
SPEAKER_02: So these a nurse or two meets me out in the hallway, like, put this on, and I'm like trying to put on a scrub, scrubs, like, and it's with my shoes on, and they're putting the put these booties on, put this hat on.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, finally get they bring me into this little room, like, and it's like a closet, it's narrow, it's long, and I'm kind of like, don't know what's going on.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: There's a bunch of nurses like working on stuff.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: And um there's like the you know, where they put the baby after they um they're delivered.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: It's like a little scale plastic thing.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: There's like temperature, it's kind of warm.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: Take vitals and stuff, clean them up.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's two people over there on one of those, and then like this doctor comes and he's talking to me, and he's kind of giving me an uh situation, like, hey, we've been working on got your son out, like he doesn't have a heartbeat.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: We've been working on him, and then he's like, Hey, your son's over there, and like you can go see him.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Oh my gosh.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: And there's two, there's one nurse is pumping his chest, and one nurse is giving oxygen with a little like uh oxygen deal.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: And um, I'm like, man, and he's kind of telling me the situation, pretty much saying, like, hey, we um we're trying to like we won't, it's time to remove care.
25:17
SPEAKER_02: It's been more than 20 minutes, and that's kind of their line.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Tell me why 20 minutes.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh the outcomes after 20 minutes that like there's no oxygen to the brain, so the brain's like brain dead, like it's not non-functional.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Um were you able to comprehend that reality at that time?
25:36
SPEAKER_00: Um it's like 2:30, 3:30 in the morning.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, somewhere back.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: It's three in the morning.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: Um it's a shock because like this and this, you know, like this happened six to eight, six, seven weeks ago.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: So um we've told the story a bunch, but um, it's I wasn't prepared to make any decision like that.
26:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like life or death.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Like we were my son was gonna be born at home.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: Like, we were concerned, like, hey, are we gonna have to have this baby in the hospital?
26:09
SPEAKER_02: And like we were they really didn't want that to happen, and so we were like pushing up against uh being induced, and it was looking like night was gonna be born on my mom and Christine's mom share the same birthday, and he was gonna be born naturally at our house on that birthday, and they would all share the same birthday.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: And your mom passed away how long ago?
26:29
SPEAKER_02: 2017.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: Wow, okay, almost 10 years ago.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and um so it was like, man, all these things are coming cool, all the dreams, all our plans are coming true.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: This is awesome.
26:40
SPEAKER_02: Like, we're gonna have the baby, the kids are gonna wake up, baby's gonna be home, it's gonna be like Christmas for them.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: The two girls were so excited to just like take care of the baby, and they're they're so like nurturing.
26:52
SPEAKER_02: And um, so now I'm in this triage room with Knight, and that's how I meet him, and I'm like, the clock's like kind of ticking on the thing, it's just ticking up.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at this point, it's like 23, 25, 23, 24 minutes have gone by since they he come came out, and he's kind of the doctor's working, and like, hey, they're like pumping him full of these like um epinephrine or something to get his heart started, and he's kind of just sharing like all like bad news, bad news, bad news.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: And I I've never been in like that situation.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm praying, I'm praying, like like in between like sentences, I'm praying and I'm asking God, like, what do I do?
27:34
SPEAKER_02: God help me, please heal night, like save him.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like just crickets on the other end, like I don't hear God or feel God one bit.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then like now, like my face like shaking a little bit, you know, and I'm like, what do I do?
27:50
SPEAKER_02: My wife is asleep in surgery right now.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't, I can't like say, okay, walk away, stop working on my son.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I I Christine doesn't really get to meet night, or like I didn't, he was he was perfectly healthy.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: Like the doctor, when we got the scan, was like, hey, green light, like he's 10 out of 10.
28:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, like this heat was gonna be very healthy, but boy, like there was no, like this was never in the plan, right?
28:19
SPEAKER_02: Never part of the plan, never like an even an outcome.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, she's had so like the pregnancies she pushes for like a second, two push.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the baby's out.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: Like it labor's been easy as far as they go.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm like praying, I'm like, hey, like, and he's continually trying to like tell me to remove care in so many words.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, all right, uh, can we wait till 30 minutes?
28:44
SPEAKER_02: Can we wait till like the 30-minute mark on that clock over there?
28:47
SPEAKER_02: He's like, we can do whatever you want, sure.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: So I'm praying, he's continuing working, and then like within a minute, he's heart, they're like, Oh, we got a heartbait, right?
28:56
SPEAKER_02: It's faint.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna see if I can get it stronger, whatever.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: So they're working on him, and eventually they get it going, but it's still like he's been out of he's with had without oxygen to his brain for at least those 26 minutes.
29:13
SPEAKER_02: We don't know.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Was there any part of it like, hey, you just got started?
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Why couldn't you get started like 20 minutes ago?
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Was there I would be asking that?
29:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, did you ever they were working since he came out?
29:22
SPEAKER_00: They were so how did they get started like at all?
29:24
SPEAKER_00: Is what I would be it's kind of amazing to me.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know how the body works like that, but that's just sort of wild how they it like he's been out for that long and then a heartbeat.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: But then like that gives you like some hope, right?
29:39
SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh man, maybe this could turn around here.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was I mean, I know like how young, like kids in brains are like plastic and they can recover, and there's you know, all the stories out there.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: So they get him where at least he can get to the NICU room, and he's in there.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: And I haven't got an update for Christine yet, but I'm not really worried because it's not been 45 minutes.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, so there's a lot of things like they're trying to when he was in the NICU that they're trying to overcome, like he had like acid in his blood.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: From there's just all these sorts of things because of the oxygen um lacking so long that all it just controls so much of his all of his body, his brain, you know.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: And when that's not working, then everything's like, and the drugs they're giving him.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: So they're trying to um get him his body cooled down, but in order to get that, they have to have his heart rate steady at a certain level.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: So they're waiting for that to happen.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: And eventually they get there and um start cooling him down to prevent any further damage, but they couldn't like fix the damage that was already done.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: So that was the goal to hold to chill him for three days, and then they would warm him back up and see how he was um progressing.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, I would I was in there and finally, you know, I'm in like the corner, like praying for him.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of people are like working on him, trying to get him connected to like so many things, like more connections that are in this room, like we're in this little body, and uh I can't even really like spend time with him or hold him or like touch him, you know.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: And um, so they they give me my first update for Christine, and they're say, they say um she's get we had to give her two liters of blood, and she's uh we don't have the bleeding under control.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: And they're working on her, and that's it.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: That's all the update I have.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: So now I'm like, my wife's my son's gonna die.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: My wife is gonna die.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, this is crazy.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: And I'm all by myself at the hospital, there's nobody there with me.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, so I'm feeling like God, uh I don't feel God's presence.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: I feel alone from Him.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: I don't feel like I have anybody here with me.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm by myself making these decisions that I didn't want to make um for like my family and for Christine and all that.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: And now I'm gonna be, I have three kids by myself.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: Like all these fears.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm just going like through anger and fear and uncertainty and lack of faith, and um God's not real, and all these things.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, um, so I uh Christine's object's in her family, and her mom's like finally, like you know, gets hold, like, hey, I'm going to the house to you know, sit with the yeah, house and just make sure wake up with the kids.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: I sent um your dad and brother over.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, great.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that you know, no one knows.
32:57
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, Chris hasn't given them like updates.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: So they don't know what they're watching.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't even remember when when Ryan and Robert walked in or what happened.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: I think I had already known, and I was like, yeah, I was just like worried, like silly fears or um like what fear?
33:18
SPEAKER_02: I was like, Robert's gonna be so mad that I did this to his daughter.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: Like we had we're we could have just had the baby at the hospital.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, like yeah, yeah, like like why don't you just have it like everyone else just had the body at the hospital?
33:30
SPEAKER_02: Why do you have to be so different?
33:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: And uh so like they just came in and like we just I told them, yeah, I'm it's kind of remembering a little bit now.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: I told them, and then Robert's like, all right, let's pray.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: So we all like on our knees and like we were just praying, we're taking turns like praying out loud, and then we're just waiting, and then um, then they come get me, update me, something about night.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: I need to go talk to them.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: So I go back in that room, and then we we kind of pretty much take over that room.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: Like Robert and Debbie, uh Robert and Ryan come out in are in there, and I think, and then I'm like, I don't know if I've told him about Christine yet.
34:11
SPEAKER_02: I can't even remember.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: I remember calling Joel, and uh he was out of town, and I was like, hey man, like and he picked up and I was talking to him, and I'm like bawling, and I'm like, I'm still I still feel alone at this point.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm like, man, this is what's going on with Knight.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: This is what's going on with Christine.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what to tell Debbie and um like her family.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, he's like, man, you don't have like you don't have any updates.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: You don't have what are you gonna tell him?
34:44
SPEAKER_02: Like, you don't have to tell him anything like that.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: You don't know.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: We don't know the outcome yet.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: It's what he's kind of getting at.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: Um like tell him what you know, but like so I like kind of updated him of like how bad it was looking for night.
35:01
SPEAKER_02: I don't think, yeah, I don't we I remember being in the hallway talking to him about it, and that was like you know, like wrestling with um um having like space for God to do a miracle, like and not taking away removing care from night.
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Christine's still not out of the woods and hasn't had like any updates on this, but you know, every time I talk to a doctor, he's like, This kid's not gonna make it, like, and um so it's a long time before they keep giving me updates.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: They finally give me an update, like they have the bleeding under control, but Christine's in ICU, like, still under.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, they have to do something like um, like a urinary tract, urinary specialist urologist had to come in and like consult or do something in the surgery.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: So they're waiting on him, and um, she's still like not out of the woods, not you know, she could still die.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: Again, night's not doing well.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: Um and this can continues on slowly, like people start coming up to the church and come or not the church, the hospital, and I have my family there, and then um elders start showing up.
36:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, people from the church friends start coming and showing up, and I'm like, okay, I'm not alone.
36:20
SPEAKER_02: And then I they I get news, you know.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: Again, again, this is hours of like just mind battle, like wrestling.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: Like it's just time is dragging on.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: It's bad news after bad news.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm wrestling with my faith.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm wrestling, um, you know, like uncertainty, fear, don't know what's gonna happen.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: Eventually, Christine is out of surgery.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: It's like three hours at least.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: It should have been 45 minutes.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, they're like, hey, you can go see her soon.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: She's out and she'll be like recovering and waking up.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: We'll wake her up in like an hour.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: What did they tell you happened?
37:01
SPEAKER_02: They they told me, yeah, like the I don't know how much.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, over time I got all the details.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: They had like there's an issue with um a uret her ureter, like the swelling in the air.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: There's so much trauma when they got there, like um, when we got there, and they the OB like opened her up.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: They expected like this is gonna be a routine um C-section, C-section, and her uterus was black, they said, and night was putting pressure on the wound that had been bleeding for a while that they didn't know, so they had no idea.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so they get in there, they have to clean all that up, they have to remove her uterus, and so now like I'm like, wow, that's I'm I don't want to tell Christine that like that's super heavy for her.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, she doesn't know about that.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: It's like a nightmare, just in itself, just that alone.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: And then um over time I find out like the that Knight's body, he was holding pressure on her wound that we didn't know there was a massive bleed, like she had to take two liters of blood.
38:17
SPEAKER_02: And if they would have uh delivered her, or if she would have delivered him naturally, right, um, she would have died because they wouldn't have known about the bleed.
38:27
SPEAKER_02: Um and his two little heartbeats saved her life.
38:32
SPEAKER_02: And um yeah.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: That's powerful.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so in a sense, like Knight's whole life saved Christine's um because those two heartbeats induced the induced is the right word, but like started the C section.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: The C section revealed the the broken uterus, I guess.
38:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the well the the there was a placental abruption, which basically means that the placenta um separated from my uterine wall, and that's very dangerous for baby.
39:08
SPEAKER_04: Um, and I guess like simultaneously or as a result of then my uterus tore.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: And um oh, so like as it came off the wall, it took part of the uterus with it, I or something.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Maybe, yeah.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: All right.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: So now you're how what do you guys decide?
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Like night's sitting, you tell her the situation.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: Knight is, or you haven't told her yet, but night's still on, he's has the heartbeat going.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: They're they're chilling him or chilling him down.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she you finally get in to see her.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: What do you say to her?
39:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I go see her, and um she's like, you know, she's coming out of anesthesia, coming waking up, and I'm like, you know, I had no all this bad news of like the night, her hysterectomy, um, all these, she's uh other damage to her body, and she's she doesn't know any of this.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: And uh, so I'm like, you know, dreading this conversation.
40:07
SPEAKER_02: So she wakes up and the first thing she says is, Where's Knight?
40:10
SPEAKER_02: I wanna uh feed him, I want to breastfeed him.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: And like just so hopeful.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I didn't want to, you know, you don't want to lie to her, but she's still I'm still in fearful that she's gonna die.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: Right.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: She's in ICU recovering from like massive bleed, like the bleeding could continue.
40:27
SPEAKER_02: So I I uh want her to relax, and so I'm like, hey, like Knight's um hurt, doctors are working on him, and you're hurt, so uh you can't see him right now, so you just need a rest or something like that.
40:39
SPEAKER_02: So she didn't rest at all, she just like kind of took it, no big deal, wasn't really concerned, went back to went back to sleep.
40:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm like exhausted.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: This is this is now like 6 or 7 a.m.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: And I haven't been like sleeping at all and just running on like cortisol, like I'm just um stressed, you know.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and uh just hanging out there resting, sitting with her, just watching her.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: She's resting, waking up, and over time, each doctor came in and like updated her, like gave her the news about her own body, about night.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: I think the last thing was your hysterectomy that they informed you about.
41:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I don't remember the order really.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, so you took everything super strong.
41:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're still kind of out of it, but you were like you were very strong.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: I was very impressed um with how well you took things.
41:41
SPEAKER_02: So we were trying to get her, they were like, hey, you have to be in here for four hours before you go down to get out of this wing and go to a different part of the hospital.
41:50
SPEAKER_02: So we're just kind of waiting that out.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: And I would I would leave and bounce back to go see night and um see some people from church and um hug on me and stuff, and then answer a bunch of questions from doctors and things.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, so eventually you get back, you let her know how did you receive that when he's like, hey, this is not I mean, at some point you you find out how what was that like that hey things are not looking good.
42:29
SPEAKER_04: I don't really remember, like I was, I mean, I was drugged up for a while and like um I know we were sit like I don't even remember where we were sitting when you at first told me, but I don't know, like I guess it's weird because when I think about everything, like I guess none of it was like surprising because like I think I knew that like something was wrong with my body, but I I didn't know the extent, and like I think I was also just hopeful.
43:05
SPEAKER_04: Um and so yeah, I don't know, Chris had like given me the the information about like what was going on with night, and the we were also like I think at that point we were still kind of waiting on EKG results.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:29
SPEAKER_04: And so that was gonna really guide us if like you know, where we were at, like if there was no brain activity, or if there was, then there was like a you know, a little sliver of hope.
43:42
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
43:43
SPEAKER_04: And so, um, but at that point, I think we had kind of known that like it wasn't gonna be good.
43:51
SPEAKER_04: Um Yeah, I don't know.
43:54
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I I you know, that's I think just when we both like broke down and Um like I I don't know.
44:03
SPEAKER_05: I I couldn't process anything at the time.
44:07
SPEAKER_05: Like it was shocking.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: All right.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: So at some point you kind of hey things are bad.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: And then eventually there's the the decision to remove care.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: What did you how did you guys come to process that?
44:24
SPEAKER_00: And and then how did you like what'd you do before you did that?
44:27
SPEAKER_00: Give me give me the kind of the play-by-play there.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I um I was making the decisions.
44:34
SPEAKER_02: Christine was in no yeah, you know, um space, like no position or mindset to make those decisions.
44:43
SPEAKER_02: So I was making them and my my line of the same was the EEG results.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: Like, are we gonna have brain activity?
44:49
SPEAKER_02: So they were kind of setting that up.
44:51
SPEAKER_02: And you know, the doctor, it was kind of we had a new doctor at that point um in the NICU, and he he was crazy because he would be like, Whatever, whatever I was leaning to do, like he would just kind of talk me out of like the opposite.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: He'd play like the other side of the the the contrarian view.
45:12
SPEAKER_02: So he was telling me like how bad the outcomes he's like, some some parents are okay with bringing home a child that is just a vegetable forever, and like just that's what they want to do, and and all these things.
45:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, he's he's there's no outcomes that are good.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: He's been without oxygen for at least 20 minutes.
45:28
SPEAKER_02: So when the placenta came off, when that happens, the blood supply is taken away from the baby, so you have to get the baby out.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: We don't know how long before the C-section that got it, that he was without oxygen, got it.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: So it was probably our at least.
45:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, when Christine had all that back pain, that could have been it.
45:47
SPEAKER_02: We don't really know.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wow.
45:50
SPEAKER_02: So um, so yeah, at a certain point, like I'm like, hey, this is my line.
45:55
SPEAKER_02: Then I get that decision.
45:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, all right, I'm ready.
45:58
SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no brain activity.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: And I'm hope, I'm I don't want to like remove the window or the space for God to make a do a miracle if he wants to do it.
46:07
SPEAKER_02: So I didn't want to like, you know, just like take over control or you know, try to control the situation or whatever.
46:15
SPEAKER_02: I just was like, hey, like to limit the suffering for everyone.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, hey, this is my line, the EG.
46:22
SPEAKER_02: So we came back into it was negative.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: So I was like, all right, we're gonna with withdrawal care.
46:27
SPEAKER_02: That was the plan.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: So then he starts going into the other side of like, you know, we can keep, we can you don't have to make a decision right now.
46:33
SPEAKER_02: You can wait 12 hours, you can wait till tomorrow, you can wait to the end of this three day.
46:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, man, I can't take this anymore.
46:41
SPEAKER_02: Like the yeah, the like I we made a decision.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, so he gave some good um advice, like, hey, like we can remove all of the sensors and everything except the um ventilator, so you can hold them, and you know, he's connected to all these things, and it's it's tricky, man.
47:01
SPEAKER_02: Like to get um anywhere near him.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: You can only just I could only hold his hand up to that point.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: Um and so we're like, yeah, we'll do that.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: So we get Christine, and Christine can't, she's in the city.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't move really.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: Like it's you know, what people are like almost carrying you to get you into the wheelchair.
47:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, so she's in a wheelchair.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: They get it set up.
47:24
SPEAKER_02: It's really tricky, but they put night in her arms, and we held she held him, and then um we switched and I got to hold them.
47:34
SPEAKER_02: And we're we did that, I think each of us at least 45 minutes for a while.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: And um, Katie was awesome, took like pictures and just like saved all those memories.
47:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then the next thing was we would withdraw the the ventilator, and I I wanted to carry him to our room and get like some time, just us.
47:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, and because of all the drugs he was on, his heart would just keep beating.
48:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, so they would so the doctor would come check to see like the to, you know, like definitively um call the time of death or whatever.
48:10
SPEAKER_04: Um so it was probably about 45 minutes um until his heart stopped beating, and then we we had as much time as we wanted, really, um, then to continue holding him.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: So Knight is dead.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: The when does the sadness hit?
48:34
SPEAKER_00: Like when does that grief go from when does it go from shock to grief?
48:43
SPEAKER_05: I think for me it was as soon as we like made the decision um to withdraw care.
48:56
SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, and it was just like non-stop from then, probably um, of like just the heaviest like weight.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: And so as you're sort of just reeling from this just deep, deep loss, like is there any like scripture, is there any prayer, is there anything like is there anything hopeful that sort of like what where do you like sort of turn to?
49:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like especially for you know, you this isn't your first rodeo as a Christian, like you've been around and so you've seen loss, you've seen hurt, and all of a sudden it now it's you, it's no longer uh somebody else's thing, it's no longer somebody like on TV or someone you heard about or even a friend that you cared about.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: Now it's you and your deep loss.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: How do you reconcile your faith in that moment?
49:53
SPEAKER_04: I don't think I did.
49:56
SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, I don't remember like I know like my family prayed and um I yeah, I didn't um I don't think I like I so I prayed w when I was in the in triage and um and then like I don't really recall praying until probably a couple days like again until a couple days after.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: And what was that prayer?
50:28
SPEAKER_05: Um it was like a lot of just like why you know um and like yeah, just like questioning um and like racking my brain and like just asking God like why would like why do we have to go through this pain and um like why night and like you know just a lot of questions.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: And and so like what was it?
51:04
SPEAKER_00: Did you just kind of leave like it seemed like did it feel like days went where you're feeling like that question lingers or still lingers, or where give me kind of like how how did that progress from that point of like just deep despair um to a place where you could talk about it more?
51:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, openly is the right word, but like uh more frequently might be a little bit more than a lot of people.
51:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean talk about it.
51:27
SPEAKER_02: You're still in the middle of it, yeah.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: When we're in the hospital, because we are there for um like three or four days.
51:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think four days.
51:35
SPEAKER_02: Um so for me, like the the what was it, the despair?
51:40
SPEAKER_02: What did you yeah?
51:40
SPEAKER_00: How'd you have to get from shock to grief?
51:42
SPEAKER_00: Like when was that?
51:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the grief was I feel like pretty, I mean it was shock, but like I was grieving.
51:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, God, like do it, like heal him.
51:53
SPEAKER_02: You can do it, you can do it, do it.
51:55
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like praying that over and over.
51:58
SPEAKER_02: And um I think it was uh just led up to the decision of to remove care.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: And it was kind of after that, it was like a huge weight lifted.
52:11
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like like David and his boy or his baby um and him mourning and fasting and lamenting, and then uh then baby dies, and then he like gets up, cleans himself off, eats.
52:30
SPEAKER_02: Like baby's I you know, I can't go to him.
52:33
SPEAKER_02: He's in heaven.
52:34
SPEAKER_02: Um that's kind of like where I was, but then it would be like a huge weight lifted, but then it would be like little uh morning death of like of things that we were gonna miss.
52:48
SPEAKER_02: So like what?
52:49
SPEAKER_02: Like little thoughts of he wasn't like, yeah, like it was so like we had him, you know, and he's not connected.
52:54
SPEAKER_02: Anything we finally get to hold him in a swaddle, like he's my boy, like you know, just a hurt really bad.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: Um but like it was like, you know, he he's he's uh he's in heaven and like just having to like don't understand, just trusting God, and um I um like my faith got like I finally could see like how good God was in those little moments where he I couldn't hear him or feel him at all, but he gave us like just a sweet um time like when we got to hold knight and he was connected to the ventilation.
53:37
SPEAKER_02: We get to hold him um after he as he was passing after he passed, and um just have that like time with his physical body and got I got to swaddle him one time.
53:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm a really good swaddler.
53:52
SPEAKER_02: Um so I uh I was gonna I'm gonna miss that.
53:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, I really like that.
53:57
SPEAKER_02: Was one of those things where I was like that hit me really hard.
54:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm never gonna get to do this, you know.
54:03
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: All right, so then talk to me through, like, so you get you guys get from shock to grief to then you know the promise of God is that He Um is close to the brokenhearted, He comforts those who mourn.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: How did you experience comfort over the next, I don't know, what what were the things?
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just thinking of people that are going through loss and and um and you've had to process a lot of up and down emotionally.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me through that the grief process to the place where you felt comfort as opposed to just the doom.
54:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
54:46
SPEAKER_04: So for me, um, yeah, like grief hit pretty hard.
54:52
SPEAKER_04: Um, and there's a like I think Chris and I, uh our grief obviously it looks different.
54:58
SPEAKER_04: Um well for me, like you know, I spent nine plus months carrying this baby, and both all our whole family had this expectation of, you know, this baby and um adding to our family, and the kids, you know, knew that they were gonna have a little brother.
55:18
SPEAKER_04: And um, and so and you know, for me, you know, I've done this before.
55:23
SPEAKER_04: I know what postpartum looks like, and I know, you know, I'm gonna be breastfeeding and I'm gonna be losing sleep.
55:30
SPEAKER_04: And the this is what my day is gonna look like, my nights, my weeks.
55:34
SPEAKER_04: And so like I I have that in mind, and so um the grief, like then when it that's like completely gone and completely different, um, it hits really hard, and you know, just like not having a baby to hold.
55:53
SPEAKER_04: Um so that would hit really hard, and like it wasn't it wasn't like constant.
56:04
SPEAKER_04: Um it was like there was a point which I don't know, it was probably within it was probably after like a week or so.
56:16
SPEAKER_04: Um, I got to a point where there would be grief, but there would also like I could feel comfort and I could feel peace.
56:26
SPEAKER_04: And actually to Chris's point, like the peace that he talks about, like I think I felt it too once like we made the decision, but I I think I was also just overcome with grief.
56:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so but was there anything you actively I don't want to say the right word, it's like because there's passive way to receive God's comfort of just like existing and like God, I know that you're gonna bring it and I'm just waiting.
56:51
SPEAKER_00: There's other like, hey, I started to pray, I read read the Bible, I listened to worship songs.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: I what what were what were the active things that you were sort of put into play to kind of I don't know, keep your mind busy, keep your mind focused on the Lord, focus on what were you doing?
57:05
SPEAKER_04: So I I started journaling.
57:08
SPEAKER_04: Um, I think it was our like second full day in the hospital, um reflecting on everything that had happened.
57:19
SPEAKER_04: And also at the time, like a lot of people had been sending us, you know, scripture and um encouragement and stuff.
57:27
SPEAKER_04: And so I kind of like I didn't at that time I didn't know like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna go to um Second Corinthians one and I'm gonna look for, you know, I was just like, I was just taking whatever people would send me and um and like look for like what God would say through that.
57:49
SPEAKER_04: And so I really leaned on like other people to provide me with like what I should be.
57:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's important to know.
57:56
SPEAKER_00: It's important to know that like uh that people's texts of scripture you received and didn't just like, oh thanks.
58:04
SPEAKER_00: No, no, you're like, all right, let me go read that word and it impacted you.
58:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
58:08
SPEAKER_04: I mean, at the time, like I didn't know.
58:11
SPEAKER_04: I was like, well, probably part of it was like, I don't really want to spend the time to like figure out what I need to be reading in the Bible right now to give me like strength and peace and comfort.
58:23
SPEAKER_04: And so I just relied on other people for that.
58:26
SPEAKER_04: And not it's not like I told anyone.
58:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
58:28
SPEAKER_00: Like did you just get the text and you're like, I'll go to my like no response, just kind of like go on or just like like it, or what'd you do?
58:35
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
58:35
SPEAKER_04: It depends on who it was, probably.
58:37
SPEAKER_04: But um, yeah, I would probably try and just say, you know, thank you.
58:41
SPEAKER_04: Um and then I would use that and I would reflect on it and pray through that.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: And did would you journal with that a little bit?
58:48
SPEAKER_00: Or oh, that's good.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay, wow.
58:50
SPEAKER_00: That that's very that's really cool that the way that the the people of God really brought the word of God.
58:54
SPEAKER_00: So the Spirit of God can administer to you.
58:56
SPEAKER_00: That's that's powerful.
58:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so you're you're kind of getting this place of just you feeling the comfort of the Lord.
59:04
SPEAKER_00: Um and talk to me about what and I really the really reason I want you to kind of talk through this through, like as as you guys have just experienced this.
59:12
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about was there anything very healing or powerful in the memorial service that you guys had?
59:22
SPEAKER_04: Um, I think it's healing to talk about it.
59:26
SPEAKER_04: Um, and so you know, like Chris said, we've we've done that a number of times now.
59:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
59:31
SPEAKER_04: Um, it does help to to talk through it um and have like people ask questions and be able to tell the story.
59:39
SPEAKER_04: Um, and like I'll cry every time, but but it's helpful.
59:44
SPEAKER_04: Um why is it helpful?
59:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh why is crying helpful?
59:48
SPEAKER_00: I I think that's like and I I think someone would be like, oh my gosh, I made her cry.
59:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh my, I'm I am so bad.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: Why would I do that?
59:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then they're kind of but actually that's helpful.
59:58
SPEAKER_00: Tell me why.
59:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, for me, like I'm not a super emotional person.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_04: You would never know it based on like the last seven weeks, but um prior to you know, nights passing, I cry, you know, very minimally and hardly ever in front of anybody.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: And so I've seen her cry like 10 times before this.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_04: That's not a joke.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_04: And so um, and so like showing emotion and and being vulnerable is not something that like I do often.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_04: Um and so, you know, and going through all of this, like I can't help but cry.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_04: Like it's and I I don't I also part of me, like I don't want to fight it because I want like um I want to remember him.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_04: I wanna, I don't want like it, like that the experience that we've gone through with him.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't want that to just like turn into a blur.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, become like in the past or covered under a rug, or like because it's such a big part wow of us and of like me.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_04: And so I don't like I wanna remember it.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_04: And so part of that is feeling the pain, yeah.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_04: Um, which it sounds kind of like sadistic, yeah.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_04: It does now that I say it, but um, it's kind of healing.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: Um I think one of the things that you've shared with me is like uh it feels like Knight passed away a month ago, but then it feels like he passed away like 40 years ago.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about why that is.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't quite know why, but yeah, it's like so after like two weeks, after I remember after the first two weeks, I would like Chris and I would, you know, we would talk like and kind of debrief a little bit, like every night, um, on like how we were doing and what we were feeling.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_04: And uh, I remember like about two weeks after I would reflect and tell him like it feels like it's been like months since this happened.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_04: Um and I think it's because of like just all of the um feelings and emotions and like and um thinking and reflecting on it so often, you know.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_04: Um I don't and there's probably more of a reason why it feels that way, but I feel like you have a lot of memories over the past month.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I asked that is just when I went to combat, I can tell you stuff that happened from that one year of my life, and then the rest of my life is like one just big blur of doing the same thing over and over again.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_00: But that one year feels like slow motion.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: Is that kind of how this past month has felt?
1:02:43
SPEAKER_04: A little bit, yeah.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's definitely like some things, like there were some highlights, I guess I would say, that I can remember.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, it that sounds about right.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_00: What about you, Chris?
1:02:56
SPEAKER_00: Like for you, is it does it do you have that sort of sense of it?
1:02:58
SPEAKER_00: It's been a month, but it also feels like it's been 40 years or 40 months.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_00: It's it feels like just yesterday and also has a long length of time behind it as well.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, because it's I mean, even like the first 12 hours, like um, it's like an eternity of because I'm just I'm going through like heavy 10, 12 different emotions and feelings, like just kind of going over me.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_02: Um I remember like the first night, like just I never felt this before.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_02: Like my mom passed um you know 10 years ago.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_02: I was 27.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, she was only 56 or something.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_02: So I've like had like loss and and tragedy before.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I was in like a really bad um airboat accident when I was a teenager, and um so I've like had like shock and um trauma before.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I was I wasn't um it wasn't new to me, but I remember like you know, I we went into labor and all this stuff started in the middle of the night.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_02: I hadn't gone to sleep till the next night at 9 p.m.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_02: Like I haven't slept, and I'm like just you know, making all these decisions and stuff.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_02: I just remember going to sleep like sorrow, yeah, just deep, deep sadness, waking up that like that.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_02: It was just crazy.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm just so exhausted, I have to sleep.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_02: I sleep and then I wake up to it again, and it's just like a nightmare.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_02: Like, was that not real?
1:04:26
SPEAKER_02: Um and what something like that was encouraging.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_02: We had so many people, that was part of it.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_02: Like I felt like guilt too, because like how great, supportive, and all these people in our lives, our friends and our community were for us.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I don't know that I would have done that to them.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't, I don't know if I would have done that for them.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, it was just like so, man, over like because our kids are at home and you know, people are flying in, driving hours um to come take care of them, flying in without us um asking or without our permission.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_02: They just did it.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: We're so thankful because and to be fair, at that when you're at that place, you don't want anyone to ask for permission, you just want them to do it.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I told them no.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_02: And they just came and it was I didn't know, like um my cousin and my aunt came, and there's some things like decisions like with funeral and just their comfort like being there, like it was um something I didn't know like that I needed.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, and like you know, just how God prepares uh like me for that moment, like over years and years of just like wrestling with God or like testing my faith and like um like you know, so much of it I would like, hey, how are you doing spiritually?
1:05:45
SPEAKER_02: I it would be based on like how I feel.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't matter, like the reality of like who God is or if he's true or not.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_02: If I don't, I didn't feel his presence at all.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_02: But then after I could see him moving, even though I didn't feel it, and Like God's the truth of God and who he is and who he says he is and the promises, some of the things that you were talking about are true, whether I I think that they're true or not.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_02: Like that's not gonna change.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_02: And that was like, you know, just like you know, that was like my foundation.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, even when I'm like, I don't know, like why would you do this, guy?
1:06:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, why is this?
1:06:21
SPEAKER_02: But you know, we going back a little bit, like months.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I keep uh a name list, like years, like we didn't know, like we're you know, we were gonna have a fourth kid before that.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_02: I had to just keep names just in case.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_02: I just make a list, and uh, so we you know, we find out it's a boy, and then we start making going through the names, and I share with them, you know, the ones on my list with her, and she tells me, you know, we kind of narrow it down.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_02: And night was not anywhere on our radar, like it wasn't like you know, and eventually like it just kind of felt right, and like the the the meaning of it, like servant of the king is what like it means.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_02: And um, one of my favorite memory verses for Bear, I've been like teaching him, is um Mark 1045, for even the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve and give his life as a ransom for many.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_02: And you know, night came and we didn't know, but God knew that this was gonna happen to Christine and um night saved your life.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_02: And um, that's how I like, you know, how are we gonna tell our kids that are expecting their little brother to be here?
1:07:32
SPEAKER_02: So the next day that's how I, you know, I wanted to be honest with them and tell them what happened.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_02: And that's you know, we had to um share with them, like, you know, nights, they don't even really, you know, my oldest is five and a half, and I have almost a four, almost a three-year-old, or almost a two-year-old at that point.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_02: And just sharing with them that nights saved mommy's life.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was, you know, going back to it a little bit, how to be um like have any hope or coming out of like the sorrow or whatever.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_02: You know, we were praying a bunch and all the scripture everybody was giving and songs people would bring in.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_02: I like I had a night playlist for the um birthing and the uh for labor for labor.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_02: And I like deleted all the songs and I added the songs that people were giving us.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh, nice.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, as like the you know, the morning and like getting through it and stuff.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_02: Um I thought, oh, I forgot what I was gonna share with that come to me.
1:08:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_00: All right, so talk to me through then uh guilt.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh any like shoulda, coulda, woulda.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_00: How did you work through that?
1:08:44
SPEAKER_04: Um so I started having a lot of guilt like pretty early um after everything happened.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_04: Um and so I mean, gosh, like and one thing that I've kind of learned like now is or new, but you know, have felt and experienced is that like Satan will use like anything to um like weaken your faith and um and like God's plan and your trust in God's plan.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, there's the guilt as far as like, you know, should we have just gotten induced, you know, at 41 weeks or like, you know, gone to a hospital and done it the traditional way, um, and like avoided all of this, but like we we actually don't know like what would have happened in labor otherwise.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_06: Right.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_04: Um should I have called my midwife or should I have just told her to come over like right away whenever we talked to her the first time?
1:09:53
SPEAKER_04: Um and like uh should should we have tried all of these like induction um attempts?
1:10:03
SPEAKER_04: Um maybe that like you know caused some weakness in my body and and um like resulted in the abruption.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_04: Um uh should we have like and something that I felt like it's funny because it'll come in like waves and kind of phases of like I'll I'll like think about something that I'll I have a little bit of guilt on, and like then I have to remind myself or you know, kind of convince myself like why that maybe is valid or not valid.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_04: And then um, like I'll be kind of good with it.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_04: And then like maybe a week later I'll have another something completely random, like another uh wave of guilt for something different.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_04: Um so like more recently, something that I had guilt about was like, should we have just like held him longer and like you know, like what we didn't have to unplug him, like to the doctor's point, like um we could have kept him alive for longer um and just had more time.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_04: And um, so you know.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_02: Should we let the kids have met?
1:11:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was another one.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_04: Is like, so we we decided, and again, I I say we we did make the decision, but like I was very out of it, and um we agreed like that we weren't gonna have the kids hold him, um, partially because he was hooked up to a lot of right um machines, and then also um, I don't know, just because of like it just seemed like a complicated thing to have them hold their brother and then him pass.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_05: And so um, you know, thought, should we have just let them hold him?
1:11:54
SPEAKER_05: Like, would that be easier?
1:11:55
SPEAKER_03: Because now obviously we talk to them about him and they'll say things about him.
1:12:01
SPEAKER_03: But um it's like I almost wonder if they like do they even understand that he he was real?
1:12:07
SPEAKER_03: Right, you know, because they never never saw him.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_03: So I don't know, you know, random things like that.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if there was any other kind of guilt things that that you had, or yeah.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_00: One of the things I told you about that is like walk through that because no one's perfect.
1:12:31
SPEAKER_00: We make bad decisions or and sometimes just don't know what the right thing to do is.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_00: And so just taking all of that instead of trying to like stuff it down, because I think there's there's a tendency for like not gonna think about it, not gonna think about it.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_00: And people say, Don't think about it.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_00: Just don't think about it.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's never gonna work.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those thoughts are always gonna come.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_00: And so bringing those thoughts and just saying, Jesus, I don't know right, wrong, or indifferent, what the right thing was, but I bring all of my brokenness to you and I confess that I don't have it together.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_00: And just allow Jesus to heal your heart and take ownership of even sin, uh, you know, whatever that was, you know, what level of sin it could have been, you know, when you're in that sort of state and who knows what it is, and just giving it all to him.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that allows you to not have to like hide yourself from yourself because that could create just cognitive dissonance and it can create like this separation from reality that you don't want.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_00: And so to your point, embracing the pain to a point where you you realize it's not yours to carry and you have got to give it to Jesus.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's hard.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_00: That's hard to do, but I think that is the right thing to do because now you can talk through there's still gonna be pain, um, but it's now not owning you and and like you know, don't talk about that.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_00: Don't talk about that.
1:13:52
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a huge win.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, all right.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_00: What other things?
1:13:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think we mentioned before that there were some other things from the past that sort of came up into your heart and head during this time.
1:14:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, I was uh that thought came to me about the um just the hope.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_02: Like I was the optimistic and like just um thank gratitude.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_02: Like Christine didn't die.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_02: We have three kids, yeah.
1:14:15
SPEAKER_02: Like it's all I have a boy, two girls, like they're awesome.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_02: Um so I was able to like look at it through that lens a lot earlier.
1:14:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, just because what I was and how did you lead her through that?
1:14:28
SPEAKER_00: Did you go like, hey, we got these kids that are still living, or how'd you do that?
1:14:32
SPEAKER_02: It's a and day by day, like it's a day-by-day thing, like literally, like you know, every day.
1:14:38
SPEAKER_02: Um and that's I'm just encouraging her, and we're talking through like all of the thoughts and all the things that she's you know wrestling with or feels guilty about, and I'm just you know, we're able to pray for her and encourage her and just like share with what I'm like thinking through, or maybe the the gratitude that I have from my just my perspective um of walking through it.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's powerful.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_00: I think that your leadership through that was very well.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_00: I could see that and just her being able to follow you through just kind of through those places, like almost a layer of pain that kind of just got unraveled and unraveled until a place of like core healing is happening.
1:15:22
SPEAKER_02: Um we've been married for we're coming up on 10 years, so like we just got into a like just kind of like our marriage is not in any danger or anything, but it just kind of got where we weren't talking much, like intentionally.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_02: I wasn't intentionally like we didn't have our couch time or like you know, um, consistently, yeah.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh pretty much like I would try to do date nights, and that was kind of the extent of we didn't walk much.
1:15:51
SPEAKER_02: We started walking again at the end of the pregnancy for labor.
1:15:56
SPEAKER_02: So like we have talked way more, and I've prayed for her more than I have ever prayed over her more than I've ever done, um, and led her like that way.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_02: She's been um so much more open, she processes things internally.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_02: Um so anytime I in the past would like try to engage with her, she just needs more time to process through it.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_02: And then you know, most of the time we just would never get around to talking about that.
1:16:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, now she's just like you know, shares, you know, way more.
1:16:30
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just yeah, really thankful and feel a lot closer to her.
1:16:35
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_00: So now, Christine, you shared with me some stuff like even stuff from your past kind of came up to walk me through like kind of what that stuff was, and like um, especially I think the thing you mentioned before is a conversation with the girl or lady from Florida that really kind of sparked this.
1:16:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:16:53
SPEAKER_04: Um, so uh when so we lived in Florida for two and a half years, and we went to a church there, a really great church.
1:17:04
SPEAKER_04: Um we met, uh, we had a group there that we would meet with weekly, similar to community group.
1:17:11
SPEAKER_04: And um, one of the couples through the group, they have now they have five kids.
1:17:18
SPEAKER_04: Um, she's done the home birth thing over and over again.
1:17:21
SPEAKER_04: And um, we, you know, we just really love them.
1:17:24
SPEAKER_04: And she, so in this pregnancy, you know, we've kept in touch a little bit, like she just had her fifth, and so you know, through that we'll chat.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_04: And then um, leading up to due date for night, I had reached out to her and I was like, hey, you know, like tell me what are some things that you've done to induce naturally.
1:17:46
SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I I think it was we were chatting for like a couple weeks and she was checking in.
1:17:54
SPEAKER_04: And um when I was like four the week 41 weeks, somewhere in there, um, we were texting and she was like, Hey, um, you know, is there anything you need to surrender to God?
1:18:09
SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, at the time, I, you know, my initial thought is like, no.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_04: Um, and so, and also like she is she's very like uh spiritual and very like in touch with just feelings, feelings, yeah.
1:18:28
SPEAKER_04: That's a good way of putting it.
1:18:29
SPEAKER_00: Um and so but someone you really looked up to when she wasn't trying to put a guilt drop on you.
1:18:36
SPEAKER_00: She was just like, hey, is there anything you need to surrender?
1:18:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, I look up to her significantly.
1:18:40
SPEAKER_04: And um, she and so, anyways, I kind of brushed it off when she had initially told said it, and I was like, No, I don't think so.
1:18:46
SPEAKER_04: Um, and then it was probably a day or two later.
1:18:49
SPEAKER_04: I was just driving the car, nothing significant, and um playing worship music.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_04: And again, we're like getting closer and closer to like what's gonna happen with this baby?
1:18:59
SPEAKER_04: Are we gonna have him at home?
1:19:00
SPEAKER_04: Are we gonna get induced?
1:19:02
SPEAKER_04: And so, and um I I mean, I can only say like God was talking to me and he was like, You yeah, there's something that you need to surrender.
1:19:13
SPEAKER_04: And it was something that I needed to tell my family, and so um then I told Chris that, like, hey, uh, I just gave him the whole story.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_04: And and so then we were like, okay, well, let's lure your family here to our house for dinner.
1:19:31
SPEAKER_04: And um, and so this was Friday, the the night that I went into labor.
1:19:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, they came over for dinner and uh just hours before you go into labor.
1:19:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
1:19:44
SPEAKER_04: Wow, was not in labor at the like and you didn't know when that would happen.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_00: You're still thinking it we're in a healthy spot and yeah, yeah.
1:19:52
SPEAKER_04: And so um we they knew like something was up.
1:19:56
SPEAKER_04: Like, what are they about to say to us?
1:19:58
SPEAKER_04: We're moving to Florida.
1:19:59
SPEAKER_04: No.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_04: And um, so yeah, I gave them the whole story of like Claire in Florida and and where we're at as far as like baby and we're gonna go get induced, probably.
1:20:12
SPEAKER_04: And so I had told them um just uh something from my past that I had held on to and never and told very few people um in my life.
1:20:23
SPEAKER_04: And it was just something that was weighing on me.
1:20:26
SPEAKER_04: Um and actually when we decided that we would be moving back here from Florida, um, January 2025, I had heard God tell me that like I need to once we move back home, I need to tell my family this.
1:20:44
SPEAKER_04: And I pushed that off for a year.
1:20:48
SPEAKER_04: Um and so it's heavy.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:20:53
SPEAKER_04: It was it was something that like I knew God wanted me to do, and I, in a sense, wanted to do it, but I think Satan also gave me a lot of excuses, yeah.
1:21:04
SPEAKER_04: Hence why it took so long to actually do that.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_04: Um, and so yeah, I had um when I was 18, I got pregnant.
1:21:17
SPEAKER_04: And um I didn't I had a friend that I told, but other than that, I didn't tell anyone.
1:21:24
SPEAKER_04: And I had an abortion.
1:21:29
SPEAKER_04: And um, yeah, so that was sixteen years ago.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_04: Um, and yeah, I mean I knew it it was not something that um my family would have supported at the time.
1:21:54
SPEAKER_04: Um but I made that decision and um I for a long time I thought that I wouldn't never tell them.
1:22:05
SPEAKER_04: Um, but through the because of like the influences when we were in Florida and that church, um, I just heard God pressing on me that I needed to make this something that wasn't hidden anymore.
1:22:20
SPEAKER_04: Um, and something that I bring to the light.
1:22:24
SPEAKER_04: Um because um I was Satan was still constantly, you know, using it um to bring guilt on me.
1:22:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:22:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:22:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had when when you shared that, um, you know, what was the response of the family?
1:22:41
SPEAKER_00: Was it like, oh, you sinner, or was it like, oh my gosh, what what was what was the response?
1:22:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, the craziest thing is like the the lies that I had been hearing this whole time is like you can't tell them because you know it's gonna mess with like your dad's mental health, or it's gonna make them feel like it's their fault.
1:23:05
SPEAKER_04: It's gonna put shame on them, it's gonna put guilt on them, like they're gonna think that it's their fault that you made this decision.
1:23:11
SPEAKER_04: Um, and like the response was like they like they obviously weren't happy that I I made that decision um 16 years ago, but they were just so like um like happy that I was able to to like get that off of to confess and repent.
1:23:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's wild.
1:23:33
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
1:23:34
SPEAKER_04: And um, I mean it was like it was like there was joy in it um because they were they could see that like that was something that I carried and it was so heavy for so long.
1:23:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, talk to me about that just from a standpoint of someone who's had an abortion of like you carry that weight.
1:23:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:23:55
SPEAKER_00: And did you ever drive around thinking oh my the kid at 18, you know, if I'm now 24, my kid might be six, or I'm 25, my kid might be seven.
1:24:05
SPEAKER_00: It was any thinking like that, or oh, you think about that stuff?
1:24:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, all the time.
1:24:09
SPEAKER_04: I mean, for years afterwards, I would think about it every single day.
1:24:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
1:24:14
SPEAKER_04: Um, I mean, I still do, but not as often.
1:24:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and it talked to me about the like in the Bible says, like when you when I kept my sin hidden, it ate away at my bones.
1:24:27
SPEAKER_00: Did that have an effect on you in that way?
1:24:30
SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, I think so.
1:24:33
SPEAKER_04: I mean, it like I think one thing that isn't talked enough enough, or I don't ever really hear it, is like the mental impact of a woman choosing the decision to have an abortion.
1:24:47
SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about that.
1:24:48
SPEAKER_04: Um I think that you know, like our bodies as women are designed to have children.
1:24:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:24:55
SPEAKER_04: And that's that's God's intent for you know, the exact anatomy that we have.
1:25:01
SPEAKER_04: And so when I I feel and I felt this, and so I truly believe that like when a woman decides to have an abortion, that like you're going against God's design for yourself, and it has huge mental um like impact.
1:25:18
SPEAKER_04: Probably like it, I will still think about it for the rest of my life, I'm sure.
1:25:23
SPEAKER_04: And it's um it's something that I think like society just doesn't kind of glazes over, and women have like they have to be like, no, this is good, this is really good.
1:25:35
SPEAKER_00: I promise it's good.
1:25:36
SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden you're like, you're haunted by the fact you realize at another birthday, now it's that kid would be 30 or whatever.
1:25:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:25:44
SPEAKER_04: And you know, the I'm I'm never not gonna think about it.
1:25:50
SPEAKER_04: Like it's always gonna be in, you know, with like now with night, like um, like I I have babies in heaven, and like I can't help but think about like um them together.
1:26:06
SPEAKER_04: And the other thing that like for me specifically, like with being a Christian and my faith, like Satan for many years, I think he would um use my decision to tell me, like, because you made this decision to have an abortion, like you're going to have difficulty getting pregnant when you want to, right, or you're gonna have miscarriages, or you're gonna have, you know, children with issues.
1:26:37
SPEAKER_04: And like, by God's grace, we have had none of that.
1:26:41
SPEAKER_04: Um and but Satan, he has tried to use it with night, and you know, so the one of the things that like I thought of pretty early on after night passed was like, I mean, it's it's not a coincidence that like I tell my family that um I had an abortion and that evening, you know, I go into labor and then he passes.
1:27:07
SPEAKER_04: And so I think, you know, Satan twisting that to say, you know, if you tell this story, like this is what's gonna happen.
1:27:17
SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's a lie that I have heard, and I have to just, you know, remember the truth and and God's promises.
1:27:27
SPEAKER_00: And his promises that he restores the brokenhearted, he, those who repent, that he draws them close and there is forgiveness and there is grace.
1:27:36
SPEAKER_00: I think what happens in our culture is we say there's no such thing as sin, so do whatever you want.
1:27:40
SPEAKER_00: But then that takes away the power of healing when Jesus comes to save you from your sin and he wants to take away all the darkness, all the wickedness.
1:27:48
SPEAKER_00: And uh the reality is we are that bad, but he is that good.
1:27:53
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
1:27:53
SPEAKER_00: What would you say to uh uh a woman, first off, to the woman who uh has had an abortion.
1:28:00
SPEAKER_00: And just wracked with guilt, um, just feeling the like just but can't share it at all and is like just struggling.
1:28:09
SPEAKER_04: Um, I mean, first off, I would just say like you're forgiven.
1:28:13
SPEAKER_04: Um and like God's grace is greater than your sin.
1:28:19
SPEAKER_04: Um I would also say that like you confessing that and bringing that to the light is gonna do uh so much more good for you than keeping it hidden or pretending like it's not a big deal or pretending like it's something that you you know support, honestly.
1:28:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
1:28:45
SPEAKER_00: What about uh let's just call a young woman who's pregnant and now she's she feels stuck?
1:28:52
SPEAKER_00: What would your challenge to her be?
1:28:56
SPEAKER_04: Um well I would I guess I I lean towards like finding that community um that can that you can lean on.
1:29:08
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:29:09
SPEAKER_04: Um, I mean, because for me, like I when I have found myself in these situations where I like I don't really know what to read when it comes to like what God wants to tell me, like I lean on others and I rely on um other people in my life to help give me guidance and and like God's truths and his promises and speak those to me.
1:29:40
SPEAKER_04: Um and so for a woman who's pregnant and you know is struggling, like you can't really do that on your own.
1:29:47
SPEAKER_04: Um that's powerful.
1:29:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:29:49
SPEAKER_00: Chris, when did Chris did Christine, was that a shock to you on that, you know, Friday night where or did she tell you at some point beforehand?
1:29:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we had talked about it when we were dating, or at least engaged.
1:30:02
SPEAKER_02: I think we were engaged when we talked about it.
1:30:04
SPEAKER_03: I think we were dating.
1:30:05
SPEAKER_02: You were dating.
1:30:06
SPEAKER_02: Um and I remember, yeah, that's probably seems right.
1:30:09
SPEAKER_02: I remember you were like, it was a lot like you were still like beaten up by it bad.
1:30:14
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, she was felt a lot of shame.
1:30:18
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I was and I I mean I was just how did you did you lead her through that to like hey, like sin or God forgives you?
1:30:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you process that with her?
1:30:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure you're like one of the few people on the planet that knew.
1:30:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I mean I was I was pretty like passionate about like the like abortion thing, and like that's just like absolutely not okay, like at any level and all this stuff, and everything else is just like you're it's just you're sacrificing your your goals, dreams, whatever on the altar over this kid.
1:30:54
SPEAKER_02: Like you just and I was just really gracious with her, and like, hey, this is like a really big deal.
1:30:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, we are completely against any level of abortion, but like Jesus loves you, like He took that to the cross.
1:31:09
SPEAKER_02: Like, I love you, like that doesn't change anything between us.
1:31:13
SPEAKER_02: Um that's what I mean.
1:31:15
SPEAKER_02: It was a long time ago, like we you know, it was yeah, 10 years ago, so it's how I remember it.
1:31:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, the one thing I remember, I think about that time is uh you guys started wearing the West East uh arrow arrow shirt.
1:31:26
SPEAKER_00: I think you had a shirt, right?
1:31:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we got the tattoo.
1:31:29
SPEAKER_02: We have this sharing the matching tattoo.
1:31:32
SPEAKER_02: As far as the East is from the West, so far does he remove our transgressions from us?
1:31:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then years later, I think we got the it was for the mission trip.
1:31:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we did shirts, yeah.
1:31:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was so cool.
1:31:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that that's what that came from.
1:31:46
SPEAKER_00: Like you wanted to remind her, like, hey, that's how far our sins are separated from the east and from the west.
1:31:50
SPEAKER_00: And so your sin, all the great and awful and wicked, Jesus went to the cross and he died for your sin and he rose from the dead, and he's conquered death in the grave and he separated us from our sin.
1:32:01
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that awesome?
1:32:02
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
1:32:03
SPEAKER_00: Man, that's powerful.
1:32:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't I never get tired of talking about that.
1:32:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, so then talk to me now.
1:32:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, kind of like where you got, you know, you're an elder of our church, Chris.
1:32:13
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, what's the message just for just people like struggle with real faith stuff?
1:32:20
SPEAKER_00: What do you say, Dwell?
1:32:24
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna happen.
1:32:25
SPEAKER_02: Like you're gonna, like you're gonna have a a trial or trauma or something.
1:32:29
SPEAKER_02: Like it's like it's a promise.
1:32:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, and the investment for me personally, like preparing for this, I was doing a lot of scripture memorization and God put that on my heart.
1:32:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, not to just like, oh, I you know, I've heard these sermons, I've read the Bible, let me just look up, you know, where that is.
1:32:52
SPEAKER_02: I know kind of the gist of it.
1:32:53
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:32:54
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, when we were in Florida, there's a guy that had like, he would just flip right to his Bible and like it's right here.
1:33:00
SPEAKER_02: Like he knows exactly where it is.
1:33:01
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, man, I should probably be like that.
1:33:03
SPEAKER_02: So I started slowly, it was hard.
1:33:06
SPEAKER_02: Started memorizing scripture, and then it's like an investment, you know, you don't really know you need it, it's hard, but then you don't have your phone, you don't have your Bible, but you have God's heart written or God's word written on your heart and your it's tattooed on your mind and everything.
1:33:22
SPEAKER_02: So you have it when you need it, and um it's too late if you you know you try to grab it, you know, if you don't have it with you.
1:33:29
SPEAKER_02: And then the community, you know, we've only been here back um a year uh at that point.
1:33:36
SPEAKER_02: So just like the investing in the community and all those people that's surrounded us.
1:33:43
SPEAKER_02: So it was just like scripture internally, and then God's people surrounding us and helping us walk through it.
1:33:50
SPEAKER_00: Christine, you you're you know, as self- self-reporting as an introvert.
1:33:57
SPEAKER_00: Um relationships with women, like do you you had to press over like your own, like like overcoming, like, I'm I'm not gonna be emotionally vulnerable with anybody.
1:34:08
SPEAKER_00: And you started to share it.
1:34:08
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about like what happened there, how that happened.
1:34:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, well, part of it is that they're you know, God, I guess, has put it on some women's heart to reach out to me and to be intentional.
1:34:23
SPEAKER_04: And um, and so I just like I think my natural tendency would be to like avoid or push back on that or like put it off.
1:34:34
SPEAKER_04: Um but you know, and I can only really attribute this to like um God working in my heart through this, and that's one thing that I can see um like has come from all of this is like um, you know, I know people are praying for me or and us um still and prayed for us a ton.
1:34:57
SPEAKER_04: And so I think truly like those prayers have um had an impact on me and my heart.
1:35:04
SPEAKER_04: And so um, you know, once I, you know, people did start reaching out and like I there was an opportunity to be a bit more vulnerable and open.
1:35:16
SPEAKER_04: Like I've kind of just honestly tried to like step take steps towards obedience and like saying, like I can do this, and and I have noticed, like I said, like talking about it helps.
1:35:29
SPEAKER_04: And um and at first, like I think that there's a big part of me that like I don't want to be someone's like I don't want someone to take pity on me or like um just be a burden on people.
1:35:42
SPEAKER_04: Um but um in something that you and I have talked about, and I can I feel this now is like um that like there's part of it when someone when I get to have a conversation with someone and and meet with them and share like how I'm doing or my story, um, like that's helping them and ministering to them.
1:36:08
SPEAKER_04: And so I'm trying to allow yourself to be a birded.
1:36:11
SPEAKER_00: Way to go.
1:36:12
SPEAKER_04: I'm trying to do that more and more.
1:36:15
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
1:36:16
SPEAKER_00: I think that it like this is one of the things as as a person that's you know, you guys are not like super needy people.
1:36:23
SPEAKER_00: And I love that the people who knew you best knew that you wouldn't receive help unless they just made you move out of the way and they were just gonna do it.
1:36:29
SPEAKER_00: That's real friends, by the way.
1:36:31
SPEAKER_00: It's powerful.
1:36:32
SPEAKER_00: And I think you're gonna have to more and more receive more help and be uh able to say, hey, I need it and I want it and I'm okay with it.
1:36:42
SPEAKER_00: And that makes the that's the synergy of the church of when there's needs shared, needs are met, and it allows us to be just like this uh organization that's more than just a corporate thing, but a body of Christ becomes really powerful.
1:36:56
SPEAKER_00: So thanks for sharing that.
1:36:57
SPEAKER_00: Um either last thoughts before we you know take off on this podcast, Chris.
1:37:01
SPEAKER_00: You got anything?
1:37:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
1:37:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Christine.
1:37:05
SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm sure there's lots of things, but that's okay.
1:37:09
SPEAKER_04: We've said a lot.
1:37:10
SPEAKER_00: We've said a lot.
1:37:10
SPEAKER_00: It's been powerful.
1:37:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, I want you to pray for those uh ladies out there that um might be considering having an abortion or um have had an abortion and and that um they would just receive God's grace and just lean into the truth of God's word.
1:37:27
SPEAKER_00: Would you do that?
1:37:29
SPEAKER_04: Dear Father, um, I just want to thank you for this church, for um this body of believers, and I want to pray for um women specifically um in our community, um, people that we know or that you place in our path that are struggling um with considering uh an abortion or um have had an abortion, father, please know that they are loved by you um over everything.
1:38:02
SPEAKER_04: Um and I I ask that that would um overcome any feelings of guilt and shame or um just darkness that they may feel in their lives or or pressure because of a decision that they want are thinking about making or have made.
1:38:21
SPEAKER_04: Father, I pray that you would um lead them toward the towards the light, that they would um be brought uh closer to you by someone, um uh one of your children, one of us, um, that we can just walk in obedience in um just uh stepping alongside and encouraging them, sharing your truth and your promises.
1:38:46
SPEAKER_04: Um, Father.
1:38:47
SPEAKER_04: And I pray that for those women that have already made that decision, that they would know that um you are greater than any sin that we um have and carry, um, and that they can give it up to you.
1:38:59
SPEAKER_04: And Father, that you um wipe away all of our sins um and that we would just be able to come to you with that, bring that to you, and lay it at your feet.
1:39:11
SPEAKER_04: Um and uh Jesus' name we pray.
1:39:14
SPEAKER_04: Amen.
1:39:15
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
1:39:15
SPEAKER_00: Chris, would you mind praying for those who are undergoing the loss of a child?
1:39:20
SPEAKER_00: Loss of a child, a child.
1:39:23
SPEAKER_02: God, um, you are good, great, and gracious um God.
1:39:28
SPEAKER_02: And it's um sometimes it's hard to uh believe that when um you just don't understand why um your son or daughter um will be taken.
1:39:40
SPEAKER_02: Um God, would you just comfort them and be alongside them as they have questions and um anger and fear and all the different emotions that come along with it, and that they would just um look to you and look to the truths and promises that you have given them, and um that they would know that you're not a God who doesn't understand, but a God who does because you've lost a son.
1:40:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, you gave a son, Jesus, for all of us.
1:40:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, he was perfect and he didn't deserve to die, but he chose to take the death and sacrifice that we all deserve.
1:40:24
SPEAKER_02: And um, he was separated from his father, but he didn't stay that way.
1:40:29
SPEAKER_02: He rose again, and now that we can all have a relationship um with our Heavenly Father, and we will be reunited, reunited with our children um in heaven.
1:40:41
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
1:40:42
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
1:40:43
SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks so much for joining us.
1:40:45
SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.
1:40:46
SPEAKER_00: Until then, have an awesome week.