Transcript

Sharri | 28 May · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Why On Sky News This is Sharry.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good Evening tonight, Susan Lee fails her first test as
0:11
Speaker 2: opposition leader with a weak and uninspiring shadow cabinet accusations.
0:16
Speaker 2: Tonight she's demoted any woman who poses a threat to her.
0:20
Speaker 2: More on that in a moment. The Liberal Party has
0:23
Speaker 2: been asked to stump up a six figure loan to
0:25
Speaker 2: stop John Pisuto from going bankrupt. Well, shouldn't these funds
0:29
Speaker 2: be used to fight justinto Allen at the next election.
0:32
Speaker 3: I'll discuss this with Michael Kroger and Richo shortly.
0:36
Speaker 2: Farmers, Well, they'll have to sell up to pay Labour's
0:39
Speaker 2: unrealized capital gains tax. The head of the Farmers Federation
0:43
Speaker 2: will be on the show to speak about this a
0:45
Speaker 2: bit later, and Holocaust survivor Eddie Bois joins me ahead
0:49
Speaker 2: of Australia's biggest ever reunion.
0:53
Speaker 3: Of Holocaust survivors.
0:55
Speaker 2: Well, that's all coming up and it's a big show
0:57
Speaker 2: tonight with Brendan O'Neill, Dave Sharma, Gray, Iane Richardson and
1:01
Speaker 2: Michael Kroger. Well, the shadow cabinet was our position leader
1:06
Speaker 2: Susan Lee's first test and she comprehensively failed.
1:11
Speaker 3: It's a hit job on high profile women.
1:14
Speaker 2: The coalition's top female talent have been dumped or demoted.
1:19
Speaker 2: This includes Sarah Henderson who's been dumped, Jane Hume dumped,
1:25
Speaker 2: Claire Chandler dumped, and Justina Nampa. Jimper Price demoted, and
1:30
Speaker 2: Jacinta has been dumped from the Shadow Cabinet and given
1:33
Speaker 2: a more junior portfolio of defense industry. Clearly, it's a
1:38
Speaker 2: mistake not to have Jacinta in the shadow cabinet, to
1:42
Speaker 2: think that she's no longer part of that crucial grouping
1:46
Speaker 2: that decides coalition policy, while for example, carry Anne Little
1:51
Speaker 2: has been included.
1:52
Speaker 3: Well, it's just bizarre.
1:54
Speaker 2: And Jacinta made her disappointment clear on Kredline tonight. Be
2:00
Speaker 2: honest to say that they're probably some appointments that have
2:04
Speaker 2: not been predicated on.
2:07
Speaker 3: Experience or merit.
2:10
Speaker 4: But this is what this is the team we have
2:13
Speaker 4: to work with that we're working.
2:14
Speaker 3: With going forward.
2:16
Speaker 4: And you know, I mean, I'm not going to lie
2:19
Speaker 4: and say that I'm not disappointed that I'm not within
2:22
Speaker 4: cabinet itself. And she also spoke about some of her
2:27
Speaker 4: colleagues who'd also been dumped, and one of them Sarah Henderson.
2:31
Speaker 2: It's just illogical that Sarah Henderson has lost her front
2:35
Speaker 2: bench position. She's capable, competent, smart and hard working, a
2:40
Speaker 2: great media performer and a tireless senator. Now Sarah put
2:45
Speaker 2: out a statement this evening that criticized Susan Lee for
2:48
Speaker 2: demoting women. She said, I regret that a number of
2:52
Speaker 2: high performing Liberal women have been overlooked or demoted in.
2:56
Speaker 3: The new ministry.
2:58
Speaker 2: Then there's Claire chand she was in the shadow cabinet previously,
3:02
Speaker 2: as in the portfolios of Government Services, Sciences and the Arts,
3:06
Speaker 2: but now she, like Sarah Henderson, has no portfolio at all.
3:12
Speaker 2: She's talented, another great performer, and you'll recall Tony Burke
3:17
Speaker 2: and Creative Australia had to intervene and sack the controversial
3:21
Speaker 2: artist karl Ed Sabsabi as a result of her questioning
3:26
Speaker 2: when she was Shadow Arts Minister. And meanwhile, Jane Hume
3:30
Speaker 2: has been punished for coming up with the working from
3:32
Speaker 2: home policy for public servants that cost the coalition severely.
3:37
Speaker 3: At the election.
3:38
Speaker 2: Yet she wasn't the only one who supported it, the
3:41
Speaker 2: whole team did.
3:42
Speaker 3: But she's been the scapegoat again. She's well known to Australians.
3:47
Speaker 2: She regularly takes up the fight to labor ministers on
3:50
Speaker 2: live television. Now, in Susan Lee's new team, there's not
3:55
Speaker 2: even a woman in the roles of education or early
3:59
Speaker 2: child education. I mean early childhood education is now held
4:03
Speaker 2: by a man. I don't want to be sexist here,
4:06
Speaker 2: but there aren't many men working in preschools, so that's
4:10
Speaker 2: a bizarre choice. Yet, this is what Susan Lee has
4:14
Speaker 2: decided in her first move as Liberal leader, to hold
4:18
Speaker 2: back for talented, ambitious women, and it looks worse for
4:24
Speaker 2: her than it does for them. It looks like she's
4:27
Speaker 2: threatened by other women and that's what coalition insiders are
4:31
Speaker 2: saying as well. Anyone can see that the likes of
4:35
Speaker 2: Jacinta has a bright future ahead of her. She's not
4:38
Speaker 2: going to be held back forever by Susan Lee. It's
4:41
Speaker 2: only a matter of time. Yet, Susan Lee was all
4:45
Speaker 2: smiles for the cameras today.
4:53
Speaker 3: Well, good afternoon.
4:55
Speaker 5: Today, David and I have reached agreement formally to reform
4:59
Speaker 5: the Coalition and we can announce our new Coalition Shadow Ministry.
5:05
Speaker 5: I want to thank you David for the respectful and
5:07
Speaker 5: productive way that you and I have engaged throughout this
5:10
Speaker 5: process and I know that we will be a great
5:13
Speaker 5: partnership going forward.
5:16
Speaker 2: The shadow cabinet that she's assembled is not a winning
5:19
Speaker 2: team that has a chance of defeating Alban easy or
5:23
Speaker 2: even cawing back significant ground. While there are some good
5:27
Speaker 2: moves like Andrew Hasty and Home Affairs, the overwhelming.
5:31
Speaker 3: Makeup is weak. I mean, there are hardly.
5:34
Speaker 2: Any Liberals left in Parliament. Susan Lee should at least
5:39
Speaker 2: elevate the most talented ones to key positions, but she
5:43
Speaker 2: hasn't done that. She's in such a shaky position herself
5:47
Speaker 2: with half the party supporting Angus Taylor, that she hasn't
5:51
Speaker 2: promoted according to talent.
5:53
Speaker 3: She simply promoted.
5:55
Speaker 2: Those who voted for her for the most part, and
5:58
Speaker 2: that's a key factor in how she she won their
6:00
Speaker 2: vote for the leadership in the first place. They knew
6:04
Speaker 2: that they wouldn't have a shot at being in shadow
6:06
Speaker 2: cabinet ordinarily, so they were reportedly offered key positions in
6:12
Speaker 2: return for their vote. Now Teed O'Brien was talented in
6:17
Speaker 2: energy against Chris Bowen, but will he be able to
6:21
Speaker 2: take the fight up to Treasurer Jim Chalmers, who's a polished,
6:25
Speaker 2: experienced and sophisticated performer. It's unlikely James Patterson works with
6:31
Speaker 2: him as Shadow Finance Minister. Now, Patterson is the best
6:35
Speaker 2: performer in the coalition and it's good for.
6:38
Speaker 3: Him to have economic experience.
6:41
Speaker 2: I have no doubt that in this role he will
6:43
Speaker 2: still manage to shine above those in more prominent and
6:46
Speaker 2: technically senior positions. Dave Sharma again, he's also one of
6:51
Speaker 2: the brightest and yet he's been sidelined in a very
6:55
Speaker 2: junior role. He's an assistant shadow minister, not even a
6:59
Speaker 2: shadow assistant.
7:01
Speaker 3: It's disappointing.
7:03
Speaker 2: And then on the national side, Barnaby, Joyce and Michael
7:06
Speaker 2: McCormack have been dumped. Matt Canavan again is an in
7:09
Speaker 2: shadow cabinet. Nationalist leader David Little Proud says this is
7:13
Speaker 2: about renewal fresh faces, but you.
7:16
Speaker 3: Also need experience.
7:18
Speaker 2: Barnaby and McCormack are two former party leaders who have
7:23
Speaker 2: that experience. They're well known to the Australian public. Yet
7:28
Speaker 2: they aren't in shadow cabinet and they've got no formal
7:32
Speaker 2: role to play in the coalition at all. Now, when
7:36
Speaker 2: the task at hand for the coalition is so significant
7:39
Speaker 2: to win back between thirty and forty seats. The coalition
7:43
Speaker 2: has today not put its brightest talent front and center.
7:48
Speaker 3: The reality is the coalition.
7:50
Speaker 2: Is so irrelevant right now and it's becoming even more
7:54
Speaker 2: so with this weak shadow cabinet that was not appointed
7:58
Speaker 2: on merit that in two years time Susan Lee won't
8:03
Speaker 2: be the Liberal leader and this shadow cabinet will take
8:07
Speaker 2: another form, and you have to say the Susan The
8:10
Speaker 2: sooner that Susan Lee falls over and someone with true
8:14
Speaker 2: leadership material steps up, the better it is for the country,
8:19
Speaker 2: because it's not in anyone's interest to have an ineffective,
8:22
Speaker 2: bland opposition with zero chance of winning the next election.
8:27
Speaker 2: It means Australians will be subjected to Albanese's radical, high
8:31
Speaker 2: taxing left leading government for even longer. Now, in breaking
8:41
Speaker 2: news this evening, former Victorian former Victorian Liberal leader John
8:46
Speaker 2: Persuto has asked the Liberal Party and the Cormack Foundation
8:51
Speaker 2: to loan him the money for his two point three
8:53
Speaker 2: million dollar legal bill. Now, this is money they should
8:57
Speaker 2: be using to pay for the campaign against the Alan
9:02
Speaker 2: government at the next election. The Liberal Party needs this funds,
9:06
Speaker 2: it needs to take the fight up to the Allan
9:08
Speaker 2: government and it needs to win well. John Persuto's supporters
9:13
Speaker 2: have some hide doing this, asking the Liberals to pay
9:16
Speaker 2: his fee.
9:18
Speaker 3: A court ordered that Pursuito is liable.
9:20
Speaker 2: To pay Moi Redeeming two point three million dollars after
9:24
Speaker 2: he lost the defamation case where he falsely accused her
9:28
Speaker 2: of being part of a Neo Nazi rally.
9:30
Speaker 3: In fact, as you.
9:31
Speaker 2: Know, it was a women's a women's rights rally that
9:35
Speaker 2: was later gate crashed by neo Nazis.
9:38
Speaker 3: Pasuto didn't have to continue the case. He chose to
9:41
Speaker 3: do that.
9:42
Speaker 2: He could have apologized to Moi Redeming and readmitted her
9:46
Speaker 2: to the Liberal Party without going to court at all.
9:50
Speaker 3: He could have accepted that he kicked.
9:52
Speaker 2: Her out of the party on a false basis, but
9:56
Speaker 2: he refused to do that. He chose to fight this
10:01
Speaker 2: case in court and now he's liable. And even before this,
10:06
Speaker 2: months and months before the trial, Moi Redeeming offered Pursuito
10:09
Speaker 2: to settle for ninety nine thousand dollars, no apology, nothing,
10:14
Speaker 2: and he ignored it again. He chose to go to trial.
10:18
Speaker 2: He could have settled the case like any commercial dispute. Instead,
10:22
Speaker 2: he arrogantly fought the case, telling everyone that he'd win,
10:26
Speaker 2: and in doing so he racked up a two point
10:29
Speaker 2: three million dollar legal bill. He can't walk away from
10:33
Speaker 2: that amount now that he's lost. And now an email
10:36
Speaker 2: was sent to Liberal politicians this morning asking for the
10:40
Speaker 2: Party to loan John pursuito the funds. The email, which
10:44
Speaker 2: I've got, says, and I'm quoting, failure by Persuto to
10:48
Speaker 2: meet this costs order by Friday, thirtieth of May twenty
10:51
Speaker 2: twenty five will result in bankruptcy proceedings being commenced against
10:56
Speaker 2: him and him being rendered ineligible to see in the
11:00
Speaker 2: Victorian Parliament as a consequence. And that in the letter
11:04
Speaker 2: they're asking for a loan of seven hundred and sixty
11:07
Speaker 2: nine thousand dollars from the Victorian Division of the Liberal
11:10
Speaker 2: Party and an equal amount of seven hundred and sixty
11:13
Speaker 2: nine thousand dollars from the Cormack Foundation. Now do you
11:18
Speaker 2: think if Moyer Redeeming lost this legal case, she'd be
11:22
Speaker 2: in any position to ask the Party to pay her
11:25
Speaker 2: legal bill? Of course not. They would have been happy
11:29
Speaker 2: to bankrupt her. So why should Pezuto be rescued as
11:34
Speaker 2: a result?
11:35
Speaker 3: Of his own poor decision making.
11:42
Speaker 2: All right, let's get into all of this and more
11:45
Speaker 2: big show coming up for joining me now former Victorian
11:47
Speaker 2: Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and labor legend Graham Richardson.
11:53
Speaker 3: Welcome to you both.
11:54
Speaker 2: Well, Richard, this is all self inflicted for Perzuto, isn't it.
11:58
Speaker 2: I mean he could have readmitted are redeeming unavoided quote entirely.
12:03
Speaker 2: Who should feel sorry for him that he's made these
12:05
Speaker 2: decisions and now he's dealing with the consequences.
12:09
Speaker 6: I don't feel sorry for him. I mean, it's unfortunate
12:12
Speaker 6: for anyone to get stuck with a bill like that,
12:14
Speaker 6: but he just allowed arrogance and pride to get in
12:17
Speaker 6: the road. I mean, when you're sitting there knowing what
12:21
Speaker 6: your bank account is and knowing that it's not going
12:24
Speaker 6: to ever reach to two point three midion, then you've
12:27
Speaker 6: got to be a bit careful about how far you
12:30
Speaker 6: want to pursue these things. You've got to be realistic.
12:34
Speaker 6: And he just somewhere on the line completely lost realism,
12:39
Speaker 6: and I think, in some sort of fantasy world, decided
12:42
Speaker 6: he could push on. I don't think that any of
12:45
Speaker 6: us were the thought of a two point three million dollar.
12:49
Speaker 6: That's a massive sum. Two point three million dollars about
12:54
Speaker 6: to hit you. You'd run a mile, but not air
12:57
Speaker 6: and me he decided, I'm a tough guy. Well, some
13:02
Speaker 6: tough guys make it some dot. He's not going to it.
13:05
Speaker 2: Says a lot about his judgment as well, Michael, Victorians
13:09
Speaker 2: are doing it so tough under that Allen government. I mean,
13:12
Speaker 2: shouldn't the Liberal Party be keeping its funds to fight
13:15
Speaker 2: the next election instead of pay for legal bills.
13:20
Speaker 7: Well, the important thing is to work out what's the
13:22
Speaker 7: main priority of the party, and the main priority is
13:24
Speaker 7: for Brad Batton to be elected premier in November next year.
13:29
Speaker 7: He needs an eight point one percent swing to win,
13:31
Speaker 7: which is a pretty hefty number chari As you know,
13:34
Speaker 7: eight point one percent in a general election is a
13:36
Speaker 7: massive number. So Brad and the team need everything to
13:39
Speaker 7: go right for him to win. And today is actually
13:44
Speaker 7: the seventieth anniversary of the election of Henry Bolty to
13:48
Speaker 7: the premiership in Victoria twenty eighth of May nine and
13:50
Speaker 7: fifty five. Polt He was elected with a fourteen percent swing.
13:53
Speaker 7: That's the last time there was a swing Victoria of
13:56
Speaker 7: more than eight percent so the Victorian Liberal Coalition would
14:00
Speaker 7: be breaking seventy years of history to win, and they
14:02
Speaker 7: need everything to go in their direction.
14:04
Speaker 8: The tide needs to go with them.
14:05
Speaker 7: So obviously these are metas for people who are running
14:10
Speaker 7: the party. Well, let them do that, but sooner, sooner,
14:15
Speaker 7: we'll only simply say state the obvious, which is the
14:18
Speaker 7: sooner this is resolved, the better, because it's been going
14:20
Speaker 7: on for two years now and it shouldn't go on
14:23
Speaker 7: for much longer.
14:25
Speaker 3: No, exactly.
14:26
Speaker 2: And the other point that we haven't raised is imagine
14:28
Speaker 2: liberal donors who gave their heart earned to support the
14:32
Speaker 2: Victorian Liberal Party because they're so sick of the Daniel
14:35
Speaker 2: Andrews just into Alan show. I mean, how would they
14:37
Speaker 2: feel about their money not being used for campaigning and
14:40
Speaker 2: being used to pay John Persuto's legal fees and you
14:43
Speaker 2: know it is alone, but who knows how long it
14:45
Speaker 2: would take to pay it back if this decision is made.
14:49
Speaker 2: All right, let's return to the shadow ministry. Now look
14:52
Speaker 2: highly factional, as I said, with Susan Lee's backers rewarded
14:55
Speaker 2: and those who didn't vote for her dumped despite their
14:59
Speaker 2: clear talent. Rich I mean, I've got Dave Sharma and shortly.
15:03
Speaker 2: But wouldn't he have been better in foreign affairs instead
15:06
Speaker 2: of Michaylia Cash who has no interest in foreign policy
15:10
Speaker 2: and I'm told she was happy to stay as Attorney general.
15:13
Speaker 6: Oh look, I find these these selections in the shadow
15:19
Speaker 6: ministry bizarre, just playing bizarre. Of course Sharma would have
15:24
Speaker 6: been better. Sharma's not only someone with a tremendous record
15:29
Speaker 6: in foreign affairs as an example, but also someone who
15:33
Speaker 6: can speak on anything. He's one of those very talented guys.
15:38
Speaker 6: And I'm amazed that they would would would would downplay
15:43
Speaker 6: somebody as good as that. But that seems to be
15:46
Speaker 6: a pattern this. If I can use a terrible swear
15:51
Speaker 6: word this whole.
15:53
Speaker 2: Let's swear on live television, not actually swear on live
15:56
Speaker 2: television to be us out.
15:59
Speaker 6: You can handle it. It's us up, that's the problem
16:02
Speaker 6: with it.
16:03
Speaker 3: I can handle that. That's all right.
16:05
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's as far as I'm going. But that's what
16:07
Speaker 6: it is. You know, they just turned things upside down
16:11
Speaker 6: and it looks wrong, and it looks wrong, you're never
16:15
Speaker 6: going to fix it. Things are hard enough in politics
16:19
Speaker 6: if they look perfect. If they just look terrible, then
16:22
Speaker 6: I think you're in all sorts of strife. So I
16:24
Speaker 6: don't know. Dave's a great friend of mine, a great fella,
16:28
Speaker 6: but they're going to have to look after him better
16:30
Speaker 6: than this.
16:32
Speaker 2: No, I agree, you're on fire tonight, rich O, making
16:34
Speaker 2: really good points, Mike.
16:37
Speaker 3: It's true though, isn't it.
16:39
Speaker 2: I mean, it's pretty brutal and politically unwise that four
16:42
Speaker 2: talented women have been dumped or demoted.
16:47
Speaker 8: No, I don't agree with any of that. No, I
16:48
Speaker 8: don't agree with Richie either.
16:50
Speaker 7: Come I, well, of course some talented women have been demoted,
16:54
Speaker 7: with some talent women have been promoted as well.
16:58
Speaker 8: So I think Susan Lee's done a pretty good job.
17:01
Speaker 7: I mean, in difficult circumstances, you're you're always going to
17:05
Speaker 7: have people unhappy. And John how used to famously allegedly
17:08
Speaker 7: said once that ministerial shadow ministerial reshuffles are never good
17:13
Speaker 7: for the political health of the leader because those you
17:16
Speaker 7: promote don't give you unique credit because they think they
17:19
Speaker 7: should have been promoted years before. Those you leave in
17:22
Speaker 7: their positions are unhappy because they think they should have
17:24
Speaker 7: been promoted. And of course those you don't promote, they're angry.
17:27
Speaker 7: And those and those that don't get on the ladder
17:29
Speaker 7: at all. They're angry too so and then you get
17:32
Speaker 7: all the commentary around, you know, you know riches, Sha
17:35
Speaker 7: likes Dave and Bertha likes Fred and I mean, you know,
17:39
Speaker 7: these are not this is not science, it's not two
17:41
Speaker 7: plus two. These are matters of opinion. And I think overall,
17:44
Speaker 7: Suasan Le's done a pretty good job. Obviously, there are disappointments,
17:46
Speaker 7: and friends of mine have been promoted, some friends that
17:48
Speaker 7: might have been demoted. That's that's that's just politics, you know,
17:54
Speaker 7: Paron ask Susan's done a very.
17:56
Speaker 8: Good job in a very very difficult climate.
17:59
Speaker 2: Look, I take that you probably don't want to publicly
18:02
Speaker 2: criticize the Liberal Party on live television as well, Michel.
18:05
Speaker 2: So I'm guessing there's an element of that.
18:08
Speaker 7: In there, because I don't think I need to because
18:10
Speaker 7: I don't agree with you, because.
18:12
Speaker 3: Because we're doing it for you, we're doing it for.
18:15
Speaker 7: I agree with you. I think Susan Lee's done a
18:18
Speaker 7: very good job. By the way, that's what I'm not criticizing.
18:21
Speaker 2: All right, all right, fair enough, Well, there's also the
18:23
Speaker 2: question of how long she'll actually be in her job
18:26
Speaker 2: with so many enemies and with half the party not
18:28
Speaker 2: supporting her in any case, David Little proud as well.
18:31
Speaker 2: I mean, we know Susan Lee upset a lot of
18:33
Speaker 2: key Liberals today. On the national side, there's Barnaby Joyce,
18:36
Speaker 2: Matt Canavan and Michael Cormack.
18:38
Speaker 3: Are pretty unhappy. Richo.
18:41
Speaker 2: In all seriousness, who do you think Alban Easy will
18:44
Speaker 2: be fighting at the next election, Susan Lee or someone else.
18:48
Speaker 6: I think there's more chance of in having to fight
18:50
Speaker 6: Hasty than there is anybody else. Hasty is young, yes,
18:55
Speaker 6: and many might say too young, but he's very talented,
19:00
Speaker 6: looks the part, sounds the part. I think he'd like
19:03
Speaker 6: a pretty good show of it.
19:05
Speaker 2: Michael, would you agree this is a placeholder team? Unlikely
19:10
Speaker 2: Susan Lee will actually take the Liberal Party to the
19:12
Speaker 2: next election.
19:14
Speaker 8: No, I don't agree with that at all.
19:16
Speaker 7: You beware the underestimated leader. I mean, you know, no
19:21
Speaker 7: one thought Tony Abbott would be leader. No one thought
19:24
Speaker 7: Reagan could win an election, no one thought Balty could
19:27
Speaker 7: win an election, Bilkie Peterson, no one thought John Howard.
19:31
Speaker 8: Would be Prime minister. I mean, these sort of predictions.
19:35
Speaker 7: Two weeks after she's got the job, She's been through
19:37
Speaker 7: a very difficult personal situation obviously, and we're dealing with
19:41
Speaker 7: these nets.
19:43
Speaker 8: Who lost the plot.
19:44
Speaker 7: There for a few days. I think Susan Leed has
19:48
Speaker 7: done a very good job in this climate. To be honest,
19:50
Speaker 7: I think she'll be there at the next election. What
19:53
Speaker 7: we've promoted a woman, everyone's getting stuck into her.
19:55
Speaker 8: You know, she's got three the full leadership.
19:57
Speaker 3: This is not a genus.
19:59
Speaker 8: Three full of the leadership team are women.
20:00
Speaker 3: Michael, and she's done.
20:03
Speaker 8: A very good job.
20:04
Speaker 2: Mike, I really don't want to be personally unkind, but
20:08
Speaker 2: I mean, Richo, I'll ask you to do it.
20:11
Speaker 3: Then, Richo, what do.
20:12
Speaker 2: You think of Michael Kroger's comparison just then between Susan
20:15
Speaker 2: Lee and Ronald Reagan, Tony Abbott and John Howard.
20:21
Speaker 6: It's a bit of a joke, that has to be.
20:24
Speaker 6: Michael's a very funny fella, and I think he's demonstrating
20:28
Speaker 6: this sense of humor that he has because if it's not,
20:33
Speaker 6: if he's not saying it as a sense of him,
20:36
Speaker 6: God help him, he's in all sorts of trouble.
20:38
Speaker 3: Well, Richie, you know.
20:39
Speaker 8: Better than anyone.
20:41
Speaker 7: John Howard's career was over after the eighty seven election,
20:44
Speaker 7: he was mister eighteen percent.
20:45
Speaker 8: Everyone raided him off.
20:46
Speaker 7: They said he had no chance at all of ever
20:48
Speaker 7: being leader or Prime minister, and look what happened to
20:51
Speaker 7: John Howard. I'm not comparing Susan Leader to Ronald Reagan,
20:54
Speaker 7: by the way. I'm just making the point that there
20:55
Speaker 7: have been many center right leaders over the generations who
20:59
Speaker 7: have been written off by the experts we have in
21:04
Speaker 7: the political world.
21:06
Speaker 8: You know, these career as journalists who are experts.
21:08
Speaker 7: In politics, and they've been surprised on many occasions, and
21:14
Speaker 7: I think they'll be surprised by Susan Lee.
21:16
Speaker 2: Look if she beats Albanezi at the next election, no
21:18
Speaker 2: one would.
21:19
Speaker 3: Be happier than I would. So good luck to us.
21:23
Speaker 2: Let's have a look at what Santos boss Kevin Gallagher
21:26
Speaker 2: said today. He compared investing in Victoria to a totalitarian state.
21:31
Speaker 2: He told a conference, have a look.
21:33
Speaker 9: But if I think about Queensland, Northern Territory, South Australia,
21:37
Speaker 9: Western Australia, these are actually very supportive jurisdictions. They're very
21:41
Speaker 9: development friendly. Victoria, Victoria, North Korea, They're in a different
21:46
Speaker 9: categories altogether.
21:50
Speaker 2: Rich O Business investment in Victoria is becoming a major
21:54
Speaker 2: problem under just sent Alan.
21:57
Speaker 6: I think that there's a bit of truth in that.
22:00
Speaker 6: I think her predecessor went a little bit too far,
22:05
Speaker 6: and I think she's been reluctant to undo anything Andrews did.
22:09
Speaker 6: But I think this is one she needs to look at.
22:12
Speaker 6: There needs to be I think some easing up of regulation.
22:17
Speaker 6: I think there needs to be a change of heart,
22:20
Speaker 6: change of mind. Labor's got to be seen to be
22:24
Speaker 6: able to help. Development has to be If you have
22:29
Speaker 6: seen the retard development, then you've got Buckley the winning
22:32
Speaker 6: an election.
22:34
Speaker 2: Victoria. Mike, I mean, how bad is it getting in
22:37
Speaker 2: Victoria at the moment.
22:41
Speaker 3: Perpect?
22:42
Speaker 8: No, it is. It is very bad.
22:44
Speaker 7: Almost half the taxi comes from the property's secret. It's
22:46
Speaker 7: the highlst in Australia. The worrying thing, Sharry is the
22:50
Speaker 7: gross debt in Victoria looks to me like it's going
22:52
Speaker 7: to get to around three hundred billion dollars by the
22:54
Speaker 7: end of this Decade's that's.
22:57
Speaker 8: The gross debt.
22:58
Speaker 7: The official figures are sort of two sevity, but they're
23:00
Speaker 7: built on some rosy assumptions that saw these Lake has
23:04
Speaker 7: pulled apart in the financial view on the last few days.
23:07
Speaker 7: So Victoria is an economic basket case. You know, Alan
23:11
Speaker 7: Bond and Chris Gate would be looking down and saying,
23:13
Speaker 7: well done, my child. Did you said she's bankrupted this state.
23:17
Speaker 7: It's not business friendly. The property taxes are through the roof.
23:21
Speaker 7: The property sector will slow in Victoria because there are
23:23
Speaker 7: just no margins for them and we have to to
23:27
Speaker 7: riche you'll remember it. Former Labor centenator Robert Ray once
23:30
Speaker 7: described Victoria as the Albania of the South Pacific. So
23:34
Speaker 7: we've gone from Albanian out of North Korea. So I
23:36
Speaker 7: don't know whether that's a step up or a step down,
23:40
Speaker 7: but yeah, Shari, it's a down.
23:43
Speaker 3: Here, no indeed.
23:44
Speaker 2: All right, Well, you are quite funny tonight, Michael, Michael Croker,
23:47
Speaker 2: Gray Rich not intending to be.
23:52
Speaker 7: I would just stay tuned, Shari. I think certainly Will
23:56
Speaker 7: Will will defeat all of the critics, and so far
24:00
Speaker 7: she's done a very good job.
24:02
Speaker 6: Hey, you are being funny.
24:04
Speaker 4: Well we'll be.
24:04
Speaker 3: Here next week.
24:06
Speaker 2: All right, thank you both, And let's continue with that
24:11
Speaker 2: conversation about the coalition's shadow ministry. Now ready spoken about
24:14
Speaker 2: the women who were dumped and tomted, but let's return
24:17
Speaker 2: to this bad decision over Dave Sharma, I mean, one
24:19
Speaker 2: of the coalition's sharpest minds and brightest figures. He's the
24:23
Speaker 2: former Australian Ambassador to Israel. He's got business, diplomatic and
24:27
Speaker 2: political experience, not to mention his score of one hundred
24:31
Speaker 2: back when he did the HC. Yet instead of being
24:34
Speaker 2: given a prominent portfolio, Susan Lee appointed him the Shadow
24:38
Speaker 2: Assistant Minister for Competition.
24:40
Speaker 3: Charities and Treasury.
24:42
Speaker 2: He would have been better, as we just spoke about,
24:44
Speaker 2: in foreign affairs. He's not even in shadow cabinet and
24:48
Speaker 2: he's on the same level as Josell Captirian, who hasn't
24:51
Speaker 2: even won the seat of Bradfield against a Deeal. The
24:55
Speaker 2: recount is still going on and Dave Sharma, who I'm
24:58
Speaker 2: sure will be blushing from that introduction, joins.
25:01
Speaker 3: Me now, Dave, ah sure.
25:06
Speaker 2: Look, it's impossible to say this is a good shadow cabinet.
25:09
Speaker 2: It's not based on merit but on politics. That's disappointing,
25:13
Speaker 2: isn't it.
25:15
Speaker 10: Look I respectfully, I don't agree. Putting together a shadow
25:19
Speaker 10: cabinet is not an easy thing to do. You've got
25:21
Speaker 10: to balance, you know, state gender, you know, ideology in
25:28
Speaker 10: many respects to put forward the most diverse and competent
25:31
Speaker 10: and capable cabinet you can. And of course there are
25:34
Speaker 10: always going to be people that are disappointed. They are
25:36
Speaker 10: always going to be decisions you can second guests or
25:39
Speaker 10: individual portfolios that you could say she'd gone to one
25:41
Speaker 10: person or another. But I think in the circumstances and
25:44
Speaker 10: given the pull of people she had to draw from,
25:47
Speaker 10: Susan Lee's done a good job.
25:49
Speaker 2: I mean the issue is that the coalition needs the
25:51
Speaker 2: best possible team to try win back more than thirty seats.
25:55
Speaker 2: And I don't mean to put you on the spot,
25:57
Speaker 2: but it must surely be frustrating for you personally, off
26:00
Speaker 2: for those who support you, knowing that you have so
26:03
Speaker 2: much to contribute and knowing that you have the ability
26:05
Speaker 2: to do so, but again you're not being given the responsibility.
26:11
Speaker 10: Look, I'm privileged to be a senator for yourself well,
26:14
Speaker 10: so it means I can speak on any number of issues,
26:16
Speaker 10: as I'm.
26:16
Speaker 1: Sure we will tonight.
26:19
Speaker 10: I'm looking forward to getting into the portfolio of competition
26:23
Speaker 10: and charities, because I do think the lack of competition
26:26
Speaker 10: in the Australian economy has been not only a contributor
26:29
Speaker 10: to our cost of living crisis, but a huge shag
26:31
Speaker 10: on productivity, a huge burden on households. It's been to
26:36
Speaker 10: the detriment of workers and ultimately is to the detriment
26:38
Speaker 10: of our nation. So I think it's a substantial area
26:41
Speaker 10: of policy, and I'm can to get my teeth.
26:43
Speaker 1: Stuck into it.
26:44
Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's speak about one of the areas
26:47
Speaker 2: of your expertise, foreign policy. I read an excellent Wall
26:51
Speaker 2: Street Journal editorial today which summarizes the difficulties Trump is
26:55
Speaker 2: dealing with on the international stage, and it says he
26:58
Speaker 2: faces crucial decisions on Russia, Iran, and China. Those adversaries
27:03
Speaker 2: are increasingly working together against American interests, and it asks
27:07
Speaker 2: will the President send a message of deterrence or weakness? Now, Dave,
27:12
Speaker 2: I mean, Trump seemed to think that he himself, being
27:15
Speaker 2: in the position of president would be enough of a deterrence.
27:18
Speaker 3: But that's not what's eventuated.
27:22
Speaker 10: No, I think the test is really looming large now, Cherry.
27:27
Speaker 10: Will Trump back up his rhetoric and his stated policies
27:31
Speaker 10: with actions. I mean, you know, with the Ukraine War,
27:35
Speaker 10: he first said it would be finished within a day
27:37
Speaker 10: now and really took him at his word for that,
27:38
Speaker 10: but then he said within one hundred days, well one
27:41
Speaker 10: hundred days past. I think about thirty days ago now,
27:44
Speaker 10: and it's clear that to me at least, that Russia
27:48
Speaker 10: and President Persian are not taking US proposals for a
27:51
Speaker 10: ceasefire seriously. And they just unleashed one of their largest
27:54
Speaker 10: barragea Zilon Kiv, Ukraine's capital, over the last three days,
27:58
Speaker 10: involving cruise missiles, drone another lethal weaponry.
28:02
Speaker 1: They do not seem interested in talks.
28:04
Speaker 10: Of course, you know, Zelenski agreed to go in person
28:08
Speaker 10: to talks in istanable two weeks ago.
28:10
Speaker 1: Putin was a no show. He didn't intend to go along.
28:14
Speaker 10: So I think on that file, but also on the
28:16
Speaker 10: Iran nuclear file, you know, people are sort of watching
28:19
Speaker 10: with bit of breath to see.
28:21
Speaker 1: What happens if the talks break down.
28:24
Speaker 10: What pressures will the US president bring to bear on
28:27
Speaker 10: Iran to make sure that they return to the negotiating
28:30
Speaker 10: table or participate in negotiations in good faith. So I think,
28:34
Speaker 10: you know, increasingly the credibility of American power, but also
28:39
Speaker 10: the Trump administration has been tested.
28:41
Speaker 2: He you mentioned the area Loslot from Russia this week.
28:45
Speaker 2: And there's also reports that Russia's preparing a big summer
28:50
Speaker 2: attack against Ukraine. So Trump's going to have to decide
28:53
Speaker 2: whether to fund Ukraine's ability to re arm or else
28:57
Speaker 2: Putin will take Ukraine and then we'll be emboldened, and
29:00
Speaker 2: and there's the question of what message that would send
29:03
Speaker 2: to Beijing.
29:04
Speaker 3: David, just want to ask you.
29:05
Speaker 2: Before you go about the breaking news reports in the
29:07
Speaker 2: New York Times today that US intelligence believes Israel could
29:12
Speaker 2: be preparing to carry out an attack on Iran. The
29:16
Speaker 2: New York Times is reporting as the Trump administration tries
29:19
Speaker 2: to negotiate a nuclear deal with Iran, Nadin Yahoo has
29:23
Speaker 2: been threatening to upend the talks by striking Iran's main
29:27
Speaker 2: nuclear enrichment facilities. And they say this is according to
29:30
Speaker 2: officials briefed on the situation. Now, Dave, we don't know
29:34
Speaker 2: if these reports are true, but I mean, you can
29:37
Speaker 2: see really that the Israeli government has been frustrated that
29:41
Speaker 2: Trump hasn't acted in a stronger way to slow down
29:45
Speaker 2: or stop the Iranian nuclear program up until this point.
29:49
Speaker 10: Well, look at Israel has now conducted two sets of
29:52
Speaker 10: strikes against Iran. Over the past six to nine months,
29:55
Speaker 10: both of which were largely directed at disabling arms air
30:00
Speaker 10: defenses and making it more vulnerable to future attacks, but
30:04
Speaker 10: also sending a clear message that Israel had the capability
30:07
Speaker 10: to carry out these attacks. So I think the message
30:09
Speaker 10: has been sent already. And you know, it's a regular
30:13
Speaker 10: part of israel planning exercises to consider all scenarios, including
30:18
Speaker 10: this one, and what they would do, what a military
30:21
Speaker 10: option against Iran's nuclear enrichment facilities would look like. Now,
30:25
Speaker 10: you know, I wish to see that come about. I'm
30:28
Speaker 10: sure the US president doesn't wish to see it come
30:30
Speaker 10: without either, but they are watching these negotiations quite closely.
30:34
Speaker 10: I think the US around talks are now in their
30:36
Speaker 10: fourth or fifth round, and undatively there are elements of
30:40
Speaker 10: concern within Israel about whether an agreement will be rich
30:44
Speaker 10: and what level of uranium enrichment capability in stockpiles, if any,
30:50
Speaker 10: such an agreement will allow.
30:52
Speaker 2: All right, we'll keep on that evolving story. Dave Sharma,
30:55
Speaker 2: really appreciate your time.
30:56
Speaker 3: Thank you.
30:58
Speaker 2: Now Still to come, farmers seeking out saying they'll have
31:01
Speaker 2: to sell up to pay labors super tax on unrealized
31:04
Speaker 2: capital gains. Plus Brendan O'Neil breaks down the misinformation on
31:08
Speaker 2: Israeli aid going into Gaza.
31:10
Speaker 3: He'll be live after this quick break. Welcome back.
31:17
Speaker 2: Well, let's turn to Liverpool, which is reeling after a
31:19
Speaker 2: minivan plowed through a crowd of celebrating football fans. Eleven
31:24
Speaker 2: are still in hospital. The man who allegedly drove the
31:27
Speaker 2: vehicle was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder and drug driving.
31:32
Speaker 2: Now to discuss this, Spiked onlines. Chief political reporter Brendan
31:35
Speaker 2: O'Neil joins me. Now, Brendan, good to see you again.
31:38
Speaker 2: So what do we know now about the man driving
31:41
Speaker 2: the vehicle and why he did something so shocking.
31:46
Speaker 11: We don't know all that much. We know that he's
31:48
Speaker 11: fifty three years years old. We know that he's white
31:52
Speaker 11: and British. That's an unusual thing to know this soon on.
31:55
Speaker 11: But the police made the very unusual decision to tell
31:58
Speaker 11: us the ethnicity of the suspect, which they don't normally do.
32:02
Speaker 11: They don't do that after radical Islamist attacks. They never
32:06
Speaker 11: say that the person is brown skinned or from a
32:09
Speaker 11: Muslim background. So they took this incredibly unusual decision because
32:13
Speaker 11: they were so worried about the reaction of ordinary people.
32:16
Speaker 11: They thought we would go mad, spread conspiracy theories, maybe
32:19
Speaker 11: take to the streets. So it was driven by a
32:22
Speaker 11: kind of suspicious impulse on the part of the police
32:25
Speaker 11: to release that information so quickly. But that's really all
32:28
Speaker 11: we know. We know that's his age, his ethnic background,
32:33
Speaker 11: and that he is suspected of drug driving. That's about
32:36
Speaker 11: all the information we have. We don't know his name
32:38
Speaker 11: yet or we don't know if there was any kind
32:40
Speaker 11: of motive or anything like that, so it's up in
32:42
Speaker 11: the air. It's a terrible time for Liverpool. This was
32:46
Speaker 11: a gathering of complete joy to celebrate Liverpool Football Club's
32:50
Speaker 11: winning of the Premier League trophy. So for this to
32:53
Speaker 11: happen is horrendous. It's an obscene assault on working class
32:57
Speaker 11: Liverpudlians who were celebrating their team, and really has shocked.
33:01
Speaker 8: The whole nation.
33:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just been terrible and actually shocked the whole world.
33:06
Speaker 2: And it's something that could happen anywhere in the world.
33:09
Speaker 2: You know, a celebrating crowd, unsuspecting and then a van
33:13
Speaker 2: trambles through now.
33:14
Speaker 3: Brendan as usual.
33:15
Speaker 2: You've written a brilliant piece on the response to Israel's
33:18
Speaker 2: new initiative to feed the people of Gaza without looting
33:23
Speaker 2: from Hamas and without involvement of the United Nations. And
33:26
Speaker 2: you write that you would think the activist class would
33:29
Speaker 2: be pleased that this news alas, you would be wrong.
33:32
Speaker 2: They hate this initiative. Why because Israel is behind it,
33:35
Speaker 2: and in their twisted minds so aduled by Israeli phobia,
33:40
Speaker 2: everything it does is evil.
33:43
Speaker 3: I mean, like you say in the.
33:45
Speaker 2: Piece, this should be a positive development that's welcomed more
33:49
Speaker 2: aid getting in.
33:51
Speaker 11: You know, we have seen israel derangement syndrome on full
33:55
Speaker 11: display over the past twenty four hours because Israel is
33:58
Speaker 11: doing something extraordinary, something almost unheard of, which is that
34:02
Speaker 11: it is at war with a neo fascist militia in
34:05
Speaker 11: Gaza i e. Hamas. But at the same time, now
34:08
Speaker 11: it is bringing in tons and tons of food and
34:11
Speaker 11: other essentials to try and assist the civilians of Gaza.
34:14
Speaker 11: That is an extraordinary thing for any nation to do.
34:17
Speaker 11: And yet the anti Israel set across the Western world
34:21
Speaker 11: are attacking Israel for bringing this aid in. They're attacking
34:24
Speaker 11: it for circumventing the UN They say that Israel is
34:27
Speaker 11: militarizing aid. They say the way it's doing aid is wrong.
34:31
Speaker 11: This is just staggering. When Israel enforced a siege on
34:35
Speaker 11: Gaza over the past few months, it was accused of
34:38
Speaker 11: pushing people towards famine, which by the way, is not true.
34:42
Speaker 11: Now that it's feeding the people of Gaza, it's accused
34:44
Speaker 11: of militarizing AID and making the situation worse. Israel can't
34:48
Speaker 11: do right for doing wrong. Everything it does in the
34:51
Speaker 11: eyes of these people is a crime. I think it
34:53
Speaker 11: really demonstrates how psychotic Israeli phobia has become, where it's
34:58
Speaker 11: just driven by this pure hatred for the Jewish state.
35:02
Speaker 3: You just expressed that so beautifully.
35:05
Speaker 2: I can't tell you how much I enjoyed listening to
35:08
Speaker 2: that answer so articulate.
35:09
Speaker 3: Brendon.
35:10
Speaker 2: We're also seeing so much misinformation. This lie that fourteen
35:14
Speaker 2: thousand babies were starving in the next forty eight hours
35:18
Speaker 2: were about to die. It was completely false. The UN
35:20
Speaker 2: had to withdraw it. And then we see attacks like
35:24
Speaker 2: in Washington, DC last week, when too young israelis one
35:27
Speaker 2: of them, not Jewish by the way.
35:28
Speaker 3: It were killed.
35:30
Speaker 2: You know, how much do you think this misinformation leads
35:35
Speaker 2: to the sort of extreme anti Israel sentiment that ends
35:39
Speaker 2: in a terror attack like that, there.
35:42
Speaker 11: Is definitely a relationship between those two things. And if
35:45
Speaker 11: you look at the lie that the UN spread about
35:47
Speaker 11: fourteen thousand babies dying in forty eight hours in Gaza,
35:51
Speaker 11: completely untrued. It was like a modern day blood libel.
35:55
Speaker 11: You know, what they were saying is that the Jewish
35:56
Speaker 11: state was just going to sit back and let thousands
35:59
Speaker 11: of innocent children die. It was untrue, and it unleashed
36:03
Speaker 11: the worst anti Semitism I've seen over the past eighteen months,
36:06
Speaker 11: really horrible stuff about child's killing, Israel, the demons of Israel,
36:11
Speaker 11: horrendous things. And it's unquestionable to me that that kind
36:15
Speaker 11: of misinformation stirs up anti Jewish racism and stirs up
36:18
Speaker 11: even the kind of violence that we saw in Washington, DC.
36:22
Speaker 11: You know, the really shocking thing Shari at the moment
36:24
Speaker 11: is that there is a real famine in Sudan. Tens
36:27
Speaker 11: of thousands of children have died there over the past
36:30
Speaker 11: two years from malnutrition and hunger. The world is obsessing
36:34
Speaker 11: over a phony famine in Gaza and ignoring a real
36:37
Speaker 11: famine in Sudan. And if that doesn't sum up the
36:40
Speaker 11: hypocrisy and double standards and outright racism of the anti
36:44
Speaker 11: Israel mob, I don't know what does.
36:47
Speaker 2: Absolutely and so well said Brendan O'Neil. Thank you very
36:51
Speaker 2: much for coming on the show. Love having you on
36:53
Speaker 2: as always and keep up the amazing writing. You can
36:56
Speaker 2: check Brennan out online now still to come. Far are
37:00
Speaker 2: begging Labor to stop their super attacks. They won just
37:04
Speaker 2: how much it's going to hurt entire community, saying they'll
37:06
Speaker 2: have to sell the family farm.
37:08
Speaker 3: That's coming up.
37:09
Speaker 2: Plus, I tell you about the plans for the largest
37:12
Speaker 2: reunion of Holocaust survivors in Australia and the one thing
37:16
Speaker 2: that no one will be allowed to speak about that's
37:19
Speaker 2: next This weekend, Australia will host the country's first ever
37:26
Speaker 2: Holocaust survivors reunion. The event is organized by Holocaust survivor
37:31
Speaker 2: Eddie Bois, the author of the incredible memoir I'm Not
37:34
Speaker 2: a Victim, I'm a Survivor, which touches on the first
37:37
Speaker 2: five years of his life in the bergen Belsen concentration camp.
37:42
Speaker 2: Now New Southwest Premier Chris Mints will be there. The
37:44
Speaker 2: Israeli Ambassador Emir Maimon two and to discuss Eddie joins me. Now,
37:50
Speaker 2: Eddie's so lovely to see you again. What inspired you
37:53
Speaker 2: to organize this event?
37:55
Speaker 12: Thank you for inviting me. It all happened at the
37:58
Speaker 12: Australia Embassyember Actually I was speaking there to about thirty
38:03
Speaker 12: ambassadors that the Australian Australian Ambassador invited me to to do.
38:09
Speaker 12: And the same morning I read a newspaper report by
38:14
Speaker 12: the Claims Conference in America about the number of survivors
38:18
Speaker 12: left in this world, which are to another forty five thousand,
38:22
Speaker 12: of two and a half thousand lived in Australia, and
38:25
Speaker 12: so there.
38:26
Speaker 2: Were two and a half thousand Holocaust survivors in Australia
38:29
Speaker 2: still alive.
38:29
Speaker 12: Yeah, this is a year ago. I believe it's down
38:32
Speaker 12: to about two thousand something two hundred. So I started
38:36
Speaker 12: to think about all the antisemitism going on in Sydney
38:39
Speaker 12: at the moment, or in Australia at the moment, and
38:42
Speaker 12: I get phone calls from survivors, and I've had phone
38:45
Speaker 12: calls from matters of our children being scared to go,
38:48
Speaker 12: you know, to school by being Jewish. And I thought
38:51
Speaker 12: what I should do is have a reunion with survivors
38:55
Speaker 12: and let's celebrate. And I started that a totally ambassador
39:01
Speaker 12: and he thought of a terrific idea.
39:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it absolutely is.
39:05
Speaker 2: And it's great to see that the Premier is supporting
39:08
Speaker 2: it as well. I mean, you know, he has shown
39:11
Speaker 2: leadership on anti Semitism, unlike Albanesi.
39:14
Speaker 12: Wouldn't you say absolutely? I think, Mike, I'll look at
39:20
Speaker 12: it this way. The Premier speaks from the heart. Albanezi
39:24
Speaker 12: speaks from his brain, you know, as the Premier means
39:27
Speaker 12: what he says. And I had a one on one
39:30
Speaker 12: meeting with him in his office and I've got a
39:33
Speaker 12: well with him and I really like the man. I
39:36
Speaker 12: think he's fantastic and in my opinion, issued be the
39:38
Speaker 12: Prime Minister of Australia.
39:39
Speaker 2: I agree agree that would be much better situation. Now,
39:44
Speaker 2: there's one thing you've told everyone coming to your lunch
39:47
Speaker 2: or the survivors that they're not allowed to talk about.
39:49
Speaker 3: What is that?
39:50
Speaker 12: The Holocaust? We've heard it all. You know there's going
39:54
Speaker 12: to be you know, all of course survivors there and
40:00
Speaker 12: I say, we've been there, done that. You know, I've
40:02
Speaker 12: never read a Holocaust book and I've never seen a
40:05
Speaker 12: Holocaust movie.
40:06
Speaker 3: You wrote a Holocaust.
40:07
Speaker 12: I wrote a Holocaust. That's the only one I read.
40:10
Speaker 2: Wow, because it's just too painful to revisit the memories
40:13
Speaker 2: by watching anything about it.
40:15
Speaker 12: I'm generally not an emotional person, but I do get
40:20
Speaker 12: a bit emotional when I see and hear certain things.
40:24
Speaker 12: What people say about Jews, you know, and I think
40:29
Speaker 12: there's eight billion people in this world, it's only fifteen million, juice.
40:35
Speaker 12: I just want to know why this antisemitist and what.
40:39
Speaker 3: It's all about, Eddie.
40:42
Speaker 2: If there are Holocaust survivors watching and they aren't coming
40:45
Speaker 2: to your event because you've got one in Melbourne and
40:47
Speaker 2: in Sydney on Sunday lunch, how can they find out
40:50
Speaker 2: more information?
40:51
Speaker 12: Send an email to Survivor's Reunion twenty twenty five at
40:57
Speaker 12: gmail dot com.
40:59
Speaker 2: Survivors Union twenty twenty five at gmail dot com. All right,
41:04
Speaker 2: and if you didn't get that, hopefully rewind your television.
41:07
Speaker 2: All right, Eddie Bowis really appreciate your time. Thanks, thank
41:10
Speaker 2: you for inviting me.
41:10
Speaker 3: Thank you now.
41:12
Speaker 2: Coming up after the break, Desperate farmers speak out about
41:16
Speaker 2: Labour's tax on unrealized capital gains amid fears the family
41:20
Speaker 2: farm is now under threat.
41:22
Speaker 3: That's next welcome back.
41:27
Speaker 2: Well, many farmers are going to be hurt by the
41:29
Speaker 2: Albanese government's tax on unrealized capital gains. The National Farmers
41:35
Speaker 2: Federation is so concerned that they're now speaking out warning
41:38
Speaker 2: that a higher tax burden could lead farmers to have
41:42
Speaker 2: to sell up. And joining me now to discuss this
41:45
Speaker 2: is the president of the National Farmers Federation.
41:47
Speaker 3: David Jokinki.
41:48
Speaker 2: David, thank you very much for your time.
41:51
Speaker 3: Now.
41:51
Speaker 2: The Self Managed super Fund Association has told a Senate
41:55
Speaker 2: inquiry that examined this legislation at about seventeen thousand for
42:00
Speaker 2: accounts hold farmland and out of that to about three
42:03
Speaker 2: and a half thousand have more than three million dollars
42:07
Speaker 2: in their super fund. So can you explain how this
42:10
Speaker 2: would disproportionately affect farmers.
42:14
Speaker 13: Essentially, farmers want to make sure that they're not a
42:18
Speaker 13: burden on society, especially when they retire, and many farmers
42:23
Speaker 13: who have been in the industry for a long time
42:24
Speaker 13: have been working on what they call succession planning. Is
42:27
Speaker 13: that's to make sure they've got their farm in a
42:29
Speaker 13: ready state to hand to the next generation. And as
42:32
Speaker 13: a part of that, they are very concerned about how
42:34
Speaker 13: they will get income when they retire once they've finished farming.
42:38
Speaker 13: And one of the most legitimate ways, and one of
42:40
Speaker 13: the ways that has been strongly promoted through both the
42:44
Speaker 13: tax system and also through accounting, was to set up
42:47
Speaker 13: your own superannuation fund, put a block of land in
42:50
Speaker 13: that fund, and then use that to retire on by
42:53
Speaker 13: either leasing to your children or the next generation will
42:56
Speaker 13: take over the farm, and then ultimately sell that on.
43:00
Speaker 13: And this is where it gets interesting when we talk
43:03
Speaker 13: about the proposed tax, is that we believe that any
43:07
Speaker 13: tax should be collected when you gain something out of it,
43:11
Speaker 13: when you have got benefit, and that benefit would be
43:13
Speaker 13: when you crystallize the asset, when you sell the asset.
43:16
Speaker 13: But this current proposal is all about if there is
43:19
Speaker 13: a change in value that you need to pay that gap,
43:23
Speaker 13: pay the uplift of the value that's occurred. And when
43:27
Speaker 13: we talk three million dollars, that's essentially one block of land,
43:30
Speaker 13: and that block of land is potentially in drought this
43:35
Speaker 13: year in many areas of Australia, we're seeing a very
43:38
Speaker 13: dry pinch in the southeast especially we're seeing second, if
43:42
Speaker 13: not third dry start to the season. And if it
43:44
Speaker 13: was applied buck it is proposed to be at the
43:48
Speaker 13: start of the financial year, partments would have to stump
43:52
Speaker 13: up an increase that they have no ability to pay
43:55
Speaker 13: and essentially would put their farm at risk.
43:59
Speaker 2: Put their farm at rest. So do you think that
44:01
Speaker 2: there will be farms that will have to be sold
44:04
Speaker 2: over this businesses that will go under farming businesses?
44:09
Speaker 13: Well, I have to find money somewhere, and the selling
44:12
Speaker 13: a part of your farm is a very difficult thing
44:15
Speaker 13: when you've been planning to either sell it to the
44:17
Speaker 13: next generation or use it to crystallize the asset at
44:21
Speaker 13: a later date. But to have to sell it to
44:23
Speaker 13: pay the tax is an absurdity. And it's the principle too.
44:26
Speaker 1: That we're really upset about.
44:28
Speaker 13: If the principle is that you have to pay a
44:31
Speaker 13: tax when you've got no capacity to pay, just because
44:34
Speaker 13: the paper vay is increased, not because the capacity of
44:37
Speaker 13: the land has changed or you've got the ability to
44:42
Speaker 13: gain money out of it, let's still hold onto the asset.
44:46
Speaker 13: The principle of paying for unrealized gains is just absurd.
44:50
Speaker 13: And to make it even worse, we're hearing schedules that
44:55
Speaker 13: first of all, this three million dollars won't be indexed,
44:57
Speaker 13: so that block of land will increase in in value
45:01
Speaker 13: over time, meaning that the amount of people that were
45:04
Speaker 13: going to get caught by this legislation will be increased.
45:08
Speaker 13: And then secondly, once again, the sale of that land
45:12
Speaker 13: will have to occur to pay for it, especially these droyes.
45:15
Speaker 13: But as anybody who's a student been following, the Treasure
45:19
Speaker 13: has given the Prime Minister an exemption to this exact
45:23
Speaker 13: rule for any politician that already has a fund won't
45:27
Speaker 13: be caught up by this, and it's a double standard,
45:30
Speaker 13: it's an absurd rule, and quite frankly, it's something that
45:33
Speaker 13: should never get past the Senate, which last time when
45:36
Speaker 13: it was presented, the cross benches did join together and
45:40
Speaker 13: defeat this bill, and where once again calling on the
45:42
Speaker 13: Greens and all those cross benches and the Coalition to
45:46
Speaker 13: chuck this out.
45:48
Speaker 2: I completely understand how perplexed you are about the fact that,
45:52
Speaker 2: because I've been feeling this, and we've been reporting on
45:54
Speaker 2: it this week and a couple of weeks ago, and
45:57
Speaker 2: even during the election campaign as well, the whole idea
46:01
Speaker 2: of taxing an unrealized capital gain. And now as you're
46:04
Speaker 2: warning entire generations of farming families and businesses.
46:09
Speaker 3: Could be discontinued as a result of this.
46:11
Speaker 2: If people have to sell their farms to meet a
46:14
Speaker 2: tax liability when their actual farm value hasn't changed, it
46:18
Speaker 2: it's only on paper.
46:19
Speaker 3: David. There's also the question of valuation. I mean we've
46:22
Speaker 3: only got we've got a minute and a half left.
46:24
Speaker 2: But the question of valuation, I mean, who's going to
46:27
Speaker 2: come around and value property at a higher rate and
46:31
Speaker 2: then say, well, you'll have to pay a higher tax
46:33
Speaker 2: on this.
46:35
Speaker 1: Valuation.
46:35
Speaker 13: And even the mere fact that if the valuation goes down,
46:39
Speaker 13: just just play at the other scenario. You won't get
46:41
Speaker 13: paid in cash. You might get a credit against a
46:44
Speaker 13: future liability, but you've had to pay the tax department
46:49
Speaker 13: when it's increased, but you don't get paid on the
46:51
Speaker 13: decrease like the These are some of the absurdities. And
46:54
Speaker 13: so who look after the valuation? Who then a ministers
46:59
Speaker 13: or or helps navigate those on the fringe to who
47:03
Speaker 13: are approaching the three million dollars for their succession planning needs.
47:07
Speaker 13: And then even as a legitimate tool for succession planning,
47:10
Speaker 13: that's been taken away from the options once again, It's
47:14
Speaker 13: not that we don't want to pay tax, it's just
47:15
Speaker 13: when that tax is applied and how it can be
47:18
Speaker 13: made fairer. And taxation should be about productivity. It should
47:21
Speaker 13: be building a nation, not penalizing the people who have
47:23
Speaker 13: worked hard or their farming or even working careers.
47:27
Speaker 2: Well, one hundred percent couldn't agree with you more. I
47:31
Speaker 2: just want to get your quick response, very quick response.
47:34
Speaker 2: Russ Giddens in the City Morning Herald today said, Ah,
47:37
Speaker 2: this is just rich, old white man complaining about having
47:40
Speaker 2: to pay this tax.
47:41
Speaker 3: What's your response to that.
47:43
Speaker 13: Obviously, as they say, the pen is might easy plow
47:47
Speaker 13: when your desk's are a thousand miles away from the reality,
47:51
Speaker 13: your asset doesn't equal your income. In agriculture, you need
47:54
Speaker 13: the block of land.
47:55
Speaker 1: It's your tool of your trade.
47:56
Speaker 13: Is just spanner for your mechanic you need.
47:58
Speaker 1: You can't do without it.
48:00
Speaker 2: Well said, thank you for speaking up. We'll keep fighting
48:04
Speaker 2: and that's all we've got time for today. I'll see
48:06
Speaker 2: you tomorrow at eight. And here's Paul Murray