Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'Hotel For Dogs' creator's daughter gunned down in unsolved mystery murder

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'Hotel For Dogs' creator's daughter gunned down in unsolved mystery murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful girl gunned down
0:12
Speaker 1: was split second precision by a drive by sheeter. It's
0:16
Speaker 1: almost too much too believe, and that's not what the
0:20
Speaker 1: family of Caitlin Arquette believes. We are live at Crime
0:24
Speaker 1: con with the latest and what is called a cold case.
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Speaker 1: Nobody believes the story that was given to cops that
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Speaker 1: somehow coincidentally two cars drive it at a rapid speed
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Speaker 1: and one driver managed to get off a hit that
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Speaker 1: executes a female driver. Nothing fits together. I gotta tell
0:48
Speaker 1: you this is one of the most difficult types of
0:52
Speaker 1: cases to solve. A drive by sheet. The evidence is gone,
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Speaker 1: just like that. Maybe somebody saw what happened, maybe they didn't.
1:05
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a camera, maybe there's not. Very often drive
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Speaker 1: bys are strategically engineered so there are not witnesses. But
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Speaker 1: right now I want you to find out about the
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Speaker 1: victim in this case and why the case remains unsolved.
1:25
Speaker 1: I'm a very very special group with me and I'll
1:29
Speaker 1: introduce him as they speak, but first to you. E
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Speaker 1: k Ellen colorin Crime online dot Com investigative reporter in
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Speaker 1: a Nutshell. Kit Lenard Kat was eighteen years old on
1:41
Speaker 1: July sixteenth, nineteen eighty nine. She had recently graduated from
1:45
Speaker 1: high school. She was an honor student with a great
1:48
Speaker 1: future ahead of her, going to college Ion medical school.
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Speaker 1: That night, she had gone to visit a friend at
1:55
Speaker 1: her home, and on her way back from there, she
2:00
Speaker 1: was shot. While she was driving. Her car careened over
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Speaker 1: a median and came to a pause on a sidewalk.
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Speaker 1: She had two bullet holes another a third bullet hole
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Speaker 1: in the in the car. She lived for twenty hours
2:18
Speaker 1: with her family. When you say two bullet holes, she
2:21
Speaker 1: had two. She was shot twice. She had two gunshot wounds.
2:24
Speaker 1: But there is also a third bullet hole in the car.
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Speaker 1: Which is very interesting to me that in moving traffic
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Speaker 1: somebody could peel off three rounds at least and hit
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Speaker 1: the target. And when I say target, I mean inside
2:40
Speaker 1: the car. That's some pretty sharpshooting in moving traffic. Okay,
2:45
Speaker 1: that is the overview. Joining me also, Cheryl McCallum, you
2:49
Speaker 1: know her very well. Not only she's the director of
2:52
Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute. She and I met in
2:55
Speaker 1: the trenches over twenty years ago, fighting crime. With your
3:02
Speaker 1: view of cold case reconstruction, tell me with the important
3:09
Speaker 1: facts evidentiary facts. What you think of the case, Nancy,
3:14
Speaker 1: If this was our case and I was talking to
3:16
Speaker 1: you in your office, the first thing that sticks out
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Speaker 1: for me is there's two gunshot wounds in the victim's head,
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Speaker 1: one by the temple and one right here at her cheek.
3:26
Speaker 1: And Detective Anita and I have talked about this before,
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Speaker 1: but I know cops that standing still shooting at a
3:34
Speaker 1: target that's not moving could not do that. So you're
3:38
Speaker 1: talking about Kate's car is moving, the perpetrator's car is
3:43
Speaker 1: allegedly moving. That is unbelievable shooting, if at all possible,
3:49
Speaker 1: and if nothing know it happened in moving traffic. We
3:52
Speaker 1: have witnesses. But here's the thing again, y'all know about
3:56
Speaker 1: our witnesses, that's a whole nother session. Maybe they saw
4:00
Speaker 1: it in that time, maybe it was delayed what they saw.
4:03
Speaker 1: But the reality of what I'm trying to tell you is,
4:06
Speaker 1: if nothing else we know, there was at least two
4:09
Speaker 1: people in that car. One had to be driving and
4:11
Speaker 1: one had to be shooting. It had to be had
4:15
Speaker 1: to be at least two people, and not necessarily both
4:19
Speaker 1: in the front seat, not necessarily at all. So to me,
4:23
Speaker 1: that would stand out. But here, here's the thing. It's
4:25
Speaker 1: hard enough to hit a bull's eye without anything moving. Okay,
4:32
Speaker 1: don't keep guns in our house, but I've been to many,
4:34
Speaker 1: many firing ranges as a prosecutor. We had to. It's
4:40
Speaker 1: hard enough to shoot a bulls eye at a distance
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Speaker 1: when nothing's moving, much less when you're moving and they're moving.
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Speaker 1: And I assume that you believe, Cheryl, that the perpetrator
4:52
Speaker 1: was in fight in a moving vehicle at the time
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Speaker 1: of the shooting. Doesn't have to be. It doesn't have
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Speaker 1: to be, but possibly one one shot. But again, the placement,
5:02
Speaker 1: the placement to me is almost impossible, Nancy to do
5:07
Speaker 1: while moving, because again, have you ever thought and I'm
5:10
Speaker 1: not saying this was a sniper, but have you ever
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Speaker 1: thought that the part was not in a car? Oh? Absolutely,
5:16
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm well, I'm getting there. But again,
5:18
Speaker 1: there's witnesses the car. She was being chased. Witnesses said
5:22
Speaker 1: that we know that, so she's trying to get away.
5:25
Speaker 1: So not only are they trying to shoot at her,
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Speaker 1: they're having to navigate the same traffic while catching up
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Speaker 1: to her and getting alongside of her because the trajectory shout,
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Speaker 1: and Cheryl, why don't you say somebody else thinks she
5:37
Speaker 1: was being chased? How do we know she was really
5:40
Speaker 1: being chased? How do we know it wasn't just a
5:42
Speaker 1: car speeding up and it was perceived as being chased. Well,
5:49
Speaker 1: there were witnesses on scene, one of them a perpetrator
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Speaker 1: in his own right, a felon, a convicted felon in
5:55
Speaker 1: his own right, he's one of our witnesses. Another witness
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Speaker 1: is a police officer that later on was arrested for
6:02
Speaker 1: Robin Banks. So again, this case gets convoluted very very quickly,
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Speaker 1: and it's one of those things where what the witnesses say.
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Speaker 1: Did they say they saw the shooter or sheet out
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Speaker 1: of the v They said that Caitlin was being chased.
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Speaker 1: There were three shots and then she crashed her car.
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Speaker 1: And what did the other car do? Pulled into a
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Speaker 1: vacant lot, turned its lights off, stay there a moment,
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Speaker 1: and then left going west on Loomis. And what was
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Speaker 1: the description of the vehicle vw Z. You don't normally
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Speaker 1: think of that VW as being to get away a
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Speaker 1: v W a bug, a VW bug. Nobody would pick
6:41
Speaker 1: a bug that had to be their car would see
6:45
Speaker 1: would not pick a bug right to be your getaway
6:50
Speaker 1: and the witness that was also the convicted felon had
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Speaker 1: access to a vehicle just like that. Oh do you
6:57
Speaker 1: take their suspects? Is that what you're saying? Absolutely, anytime
7:03
Speaker 1: you have a known criminal at an active, hot, violent thing,
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Speaker 1: he would become number one for me. And if I
7:13
Speaker 1: was the crime scene investigator on that case, I would
7:16
Speaker 1: immediately tell my lead detective, Hey, I know that guy.
7:20
Speaker 1: That guy's hot, he's you know, got a record, and
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Speaker 1: I will let Detective Menina tell you what she'd do
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Speaker 1: with him. But I can already tell you what she'd do.
7:27
Speaker 1: He'd be halfway to the station, Am I right, Yes, ma'am.
7:31
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be pretty joining me. In addition to Ashley Wilcott,
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Speaker 1: E K Klaurin, Cheryl mccaullaugh special guest with Me, Carrie Arquette,
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Speaker 1: this is Caitlin's sister. And also you've been informally introduced
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Speaker 1: to Christine Menina Indianapolis Police Department. You can also find
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Speaker 1: her at the Menina files dot com. Could you tell
8:02
Speaker 1: us your recollection of the day of the shooting? So
8:07
Speaker 1: Kate was the baby in the family. Out of five children,
8:11
Speaker 1: I was second to the oldest. I was actually living
8:14
Speaker 1: in Dallas, Texas. I had two young children. And the
8:18
Speaker 1: phone rang in the middle of the night and my
8:21
Speaker 1: husband grabbed it and I saw him just pause and nod,
8:28
Speaker 1: and then he handed it to me, and I guess
8:31
Speaker 1: my mother had said, I've got very bad news. You
8:35
Speaker 1: need to be there for Carrie. So my mother said,
8:39
Speaker 1: Kate's been shot. And all I could think see Kate
8:45
Speaker 1: was like the neighborhood babysitter. She would be the person
8:48
Speaker 1: that people took on vacation with them to take care
8:50
Speaker 1: of their kids so that the parents could go frolic.
8:53
Speaker 1: And all I could think was one of those kids
8:57
Speaker 1: got their parents gun and Kate trying to take it
9:00
Speaker 1: away from them, and somehow it went off because people
9:05
Speaker 1: like us don't get shot, right, I mean, we had
9:10
Speaker 1: never known anybody who had gotten shot. My mother was
9:15
Speaker 1: a very very successful author. My father was an electrical
9:20
Speaker 1: engineer at Sandy Laboratories. We were on speech teams in
9:25
Speaker 1: volleyball on tell them some of the books. So when
9:30
Speaker 1: I say my mother's a successful author, her name is
9:32
Speaker 1: Lois duncan Oh, I see people going ah, so She
9:38
Speaker 1: was known as the matriarch of young adult novels. She
9:42
Speaker 1: wrote I Know what You Did last Summer? Recently in
9:46
Speaker 1: the theaters down at Dark Hall. She wrote A Hotel
9:50
Speaker 1: for Dogs. She wrote probably fifty five books before she
9:54
Speaker 1: died three years ago. That's a lot. It is a lot.
9:59
Speaker 1: And she was an exceptional woman. And she said that
10:03
Speaker 1: she would never ever die before getting justice for Kate.
10:08
Speaker 1: And she actually it was a kind of an interesting evolution.
10:12
Speaker 1: I'll go back to Kate in a minute, but now
10:14
Speaker 1: you've thrown it to me about Mother, it makes me
10:17
Speaker 1: connect to it even more. Yeah, you know us on
10:20
Speaker 1: the outside looking in, we feel like we know her,
10:23
Speaker 1: we know you because of all of her books now movies.
10:28
Speaker 1: And when Cheryl first told me about this case, I
10:31
Speaker 1: have never heard of it. And she said, you know
10:34
Speaker 1: about Hotel for Dogs? Like yeah, because well that that's
10:37
Speaker 1: the Mom. I'm like, what. And it makes me feel
10:43
Speaker 1: like I know them, which of course I don't, But
10:46
Speaker 1: it gives people a connection to you and to her,
10:51
Speaker 1: so I wanted them to know about it. So Mother
10:54
Speaker 1: was this little, tiny, introverted writer. She lived a lot
10:59
Speaker 1: of the time in her head. But after Kate was murdered.
11:04
Speaker 1: She became this roaring lioness who did everything she could
11:09
Speaker 1: to try to figure out what had happened to Kate.
11:14
Speaker 1: And I think in some ways I wonder whether or
11:17
Speaker 1: not the noise that she made ticked off people in
11:22
Speaker 1: authority to the point that they were just angry and
11:27
Speaker 1: they didn't want to help us anymore crime stories with
11:44
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace anyway, Kate, it's not always anger. It's not
11:51
Speaker 1: always anger because I would get calls when I first
11:54
Speaker 1: went to the DA's office, and I'd pick up the
11:56
Speaker 1: phone and go, Hello, Polton County District Attorney's Office, this
12:00
Speaker 1: is Nancy Grays. Can I help you. By the end
12:03
Speaker 1: of ten years, I just go DA. I'm so tired.
12:08
Speaker 1: And a lot of times when people were calling me
12:10
Speaker 1: asked about a case that I didn't know the answer
12:12
Speaker 1: to that, I'm completely overwhelmed and I haven't been able
12:16
Speaker 1: to get or find out or do whatever they call
12:19
Speaker 1: me the last ten times wanting me to do. And
12:22
Speaker 1: so it's not always anger. It's almost guilt because you
12:25
Speaker 1: can't get to it all and you want to give
12:28
Speaker 1: people answers, and you don't always have answers. And then
12:32
Speaker 1: there is the irritation factor. I haven't done it yet,
12:37
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna say that I may not do
12:39
Speaker 1: it when they oh, it's so and so again. I've
12:41
Speaker 1: heard other prosecutors say that mother was the again. So
12:47
Speaker 1: I got on an airplane the next day and I
12:49
Speaker 1: flew from Dallas to Albuquerque. Kate was in a coma
12:53
Speaker 1: at the hospital. I wish, if you're going to be
12:57
Speaker 1: in a coma, is a good place to be. And
13:00
Speaker 1: she stayed in that coma for about twenty hours as
13:05
Speaker 1: different family members arrived from different states where they lived
13:09
Speaker 1: and where Kate's boyfriend actually hung out with the family
13:14
Speaker 1: for quite a few hours. And I'm mentioning the boyfriend
13:18
Speaker 1: at this point because he's going to come back into
13:21
Speaker 1: the story. He was Kate's first significant boyfriend. They were
13:29
Speaker 1: living together at this point, and he was involved in
13:37
Speaker 1: criminal activity. And when Kate, when you talk about Kate,
13:42
Speaker 1: when I talk about Kate, you know, I want to
13:45
Speaker 1: make her sound like she walks on water and that
13:47
Speaker 1: she's this beautiful, innocent teenager. But the truth of the
13:52
Speaker 1: matter is she was a teenager. So here she is
13:57
Speaker 1: at eighteen, living with her boyfriend, and she knows that
14:03
Speaker 1: he's involved in some of these activities. What activities what
14:07
Speaker 1: we know he and his friends were involved in were
14:12
Speaker 1: out of state insurance fraud scans where the Asian community
14:19
Speaker 1: members would rent a car and then they would crash
14:23
Speaker 1: into a car of other Asians and they would go
14:28
Speaker 1: to a doctor who was Asian and be represented by
14:33
Speaker 1: Asian lawyers and they would all claim soft tissue injuries. Okay,
14:38
Speaker 1: that is not new, nor is it explosive to one group,
14:42
Speaker 1: as she's saying Asians. Somebody ran into me when I
14:46
Speaker 1: was a DA and I was fine. I went straight
14:50
Speaker 1: to court. I got home that night and somebody had
14:52
Speaker 1: an unlisted number call me, a runner, call me on
14:55
Speaker 1: the phone, asking to represent me. I'm like, I'm a prosecutor,
15:01
Speaker 1: I've got caller ID, and you just broke the law. Clicks.
15:08
Speaker 1: It's a scam. A lot of lawyers do it, a
15:10
Speaker 1: lot of doctors do it, and they get insurance money
15:14
Speaker 1: through fake injuries soft tissue. It's like, oh, my neck hurts,
15:19
Speaker 1: and there's no way to really prove it or disprove it.
15:21
Speaker 1: I suppose she's talking about we were told that this
15:24
Speaker 1: was the Asia, and I'm saying Asian because it was
15:27
Speaker 1: the Vietnamese mafia, and within minutes of Kate being declared
15:32
Speaker 1: brain dead, a phone call went out from her apartment
15:36
Speaker 1: where nobody was supposed to be, to the copper of
15:40
Speaker 1: the Vietnamese mafia in California. Obviously we believe, saying Okay,
15:47
Speaker 1: she's dead. That was within two or three minutes of
15:51
Speaker 1: her being taken off life support. Detective Menina, I'm coming
15:58
Speaker 1: right to you, but share that's very probative in my
16:04
Speaker 1: mind what she just said. That is a lot of
16:08
Speaker 1: money on the line, and I'm speculating, but that's how
16:12
Speaker 1: investigations work. You all sit down, if you have anybody
16:15
Speaker 1: to talk to you and you go, what about this?
16:17
Speaker 1: What about that? I mean, if that's true and I
16:20
Speaker 1: have no reason to disbelieve it, that's a lot of
16:23
Speaker 1: money we're talking about. What if she had ever said,
16:27
Speaker 1: you know what, this isn't right, I'm telling or I
16:31
Speaker 1: want out of this. What if I can tell you.
16:35
Speaker 1: Lois Duncan absolutely believed that Kate knew and in some
16:39
Speaker 1: way said either she was going to tell or that
16:41
Speaker 1: it wasn't right, or they needed to stop doing it
16:44
Speaker 1: because there were other scams they were running. They were
16:46
Speaker 1: running college loan scams. I mean hundreds of thousands of
16:50
Speaker 1: dollars are talking about, So Kate had a lot of
16:53
Speaker 1: information that would not have fared well to Oh yeah,
16:59
Speaker 1: I mean I'm saying what Kate knew for a fact
17:01
Speaker 1: was hundreds of thousands of dollars. There are several things,
17:06
Speaker 1: and fortunately, I've been a police officer for twenty five
17:08
Speaker 1: years and I have to say that the police screwed
17:10
Speaker 1: this up from the very beginning. So really they are
17:13
Speaker 1: the ones that made this case complicated. With that being said,
17:20
Speaker 1: there's just some things that one on one detective work
17:22
Speaker 1: that wasn't done very early on. When Kate went to
17:27
Speaker 1: her parents' house before she went to a friend's house
17:30
Speaker 1: before she was murdered, and in that brief conversation, she
17:34
Speaker 1: was talking with her mother about arguments and she was upset.
17:38
Speaker 1: Mom had seen her and said, you'd been crying, and
17:41
Speaker 1: she made a comment that said, you know what, all
17:43
Speaker 1: she said, did you have another fight with your boyfriend?
17:45
Speaker 1: She said, well, not a new one, the one from
17:48
Speaker 1: yesterday or whatever. I'll tell you about it later. So
17:51
Speaker 1: what that tells me is she was getting close to
17:54
Speaker 1: communicating with her family about what maybe she knew, and
17:57
Speaker 1: I don't think this is complicated. I've been a homicided
18:00
Speaker 1: for ten years. I've solved all but two murders, and
18:03
Speaker 1: I'm not that smart. They're not that complicated. Okay, you
18:08
Speaker 1: got you got to keep things simple, I think at
18:12
Speaker 1: the end of the day, in my opinion, And I've
18:14
Speaker 1: dove into this for three weeks. And when I mean dove,
18:17
Speaker 1: I haven't slept because I've started to read it and
18:19
Speaker 1: it makes me crazy. It's probably his sickness. But there's
18:25
Speaker 1: a few things. She was arguing with him. She wanted
18:27
Speaker 1: him to move out, and we all know that. Are
18:30
Speaker 1: you sure she wanted him to That's that's from the book.
18:33
Speaker 1: That's from Lois's mouth. She had the locks changed. The
18:36
Speaker 1: locks changed, there's uh the landlord has Okay, sorry, when
18:41
Speaker 1: you're changing the locks, that's big. So there's a few things.
18:47
Speaker 1: That night, Mom picked up on it, and then Kate said,
18:50
Speaker 1: I'll tell you about it, maybe even tonight. Okay. The
18:54
Speaker 1: boyfriend gets to the hospital and I can't even believe
18:56
Speaker 1: that he was allowed to go to the hospital when
18:59
Speaker 1: they told him. I would have yanked his ass and
19:01
Speaker 1: thrown him down into the homicide office. I'll get to
19:03
Speaker 1: you when I get to you. Number one suspect, Number
19:06
Speaker 1: one suspect. Secondly, he gets to go to the hospital.
19:10
Speaker 1: And if they were any good police officers at all,
19:12
Speaker 1: if they're gonna let you go to the hospital, I'm
19:14
Speaker 1: right on your ass. I'm going with you, okay, Because
19:17
Speaker 1: he says, this is all my fault at the hospital.
19:22
Speaker 1: So now we've got Mom who's concerned, Kate who says,
19:26
Speaker 1: i'll tell you about it later. We've got a boyfriend
19:29
Speaker 1: that says this is all my fault, and you have
19:32
Speaker 1: a bunch of ignorant police officers and detectives that don't
19:36
Speaker 1: look at this stuff. They don't interview him for a while,
19:39
Speaker 1: they don't interview the family. Yeah, there's some complicated things
19:43
Speaker 1: to this case. The Vietnamese were probably involved. Her boyfriend
19:46
Speaker 1: didn't pull the trigger, but he might as well. Love
19:50
Speaker 1: and that stuff wasn't looked into. So it's really disturbing
19:53
Speaker 1: and upset for me to stand up here and say
19:55
Speaker 1: that the police department failed this family, absolutely failed his family.
20:01
Speaker 1: And I'm a cop lover, you know, I believe in
20:03
Speaker 1: the thin blue line until it's bent, and then I
20:06
Speaker 1: have an issue with it. Yep. So getting the word
20:10
Speaker 1: out this case isn't complicated. If I were on this case,
20:14
Speaker 1: I would grab my French Harold here, I'd grab Nancy
20:18
Speaker 1: and I'd say let's go to California and get the boyfriend.
20:20
Speaker 1: And he doesn't leave my interview until he tells me
20:24
Speaker 1: what the hell happens. One other important thing in a
20:26
Speaker 1: conversation that Mom had a couple days after when he
20:30
Speaker 1: was really upset because he calls Mom and says, hey,
20:32
Speaker 1: can you call the landlord? I can't get into the apartment. Well. Sure.
20:37
Speaker 1: At this point Mom still likes him and is still
20:40
Speaker 1: feeling him. The sisters are having some issues. Okay, they
20:44
Speaker 1: are not really excited about this guy. He calls the
20:46
Speaker 1: landlord and says, hey, or it calls Mom and says,
20:49
Speaker 1: can you call the landlord. I can't get into the apartment.
20:51
Speaker 1: I want to get my stuff. I want to go
20:52
Speaker 1: to sleep. Sure calls the landlord and says, oh, hell no.
20:56
Speaker 1: I loved your daughter, liked her a lot. My wife
21:00
Speaker 1: liked her, but I didn't like him, and I definitely
21:03
Speaker 1: didn't like his cronies. That's what I call in a
21:06
Speaker 1: basic one oh one, a clue, Right, this isn't hard.
21:13
Speaker 1: This isn't hard, people. But what this is its effort.
21:16
Speaker 1: It's it's talking to everybody, anybody, and the guy at
21:20
Speaker 1: the scene, what right they got his name? He's a
21:23
Speaker 1: he's a felon. Even if you're not a felon. If
21:26
Speaker 1: you're at my crime scene, sorry about your luck. Your
21:28
Speaker 1: night's over with. Taking you down to the homicide office.
21:31
Speaker 1: We're talking. I'll get your coffee, I'll let you pee,
21:33
Speaker 1: but we're gonna be together for a while. They got
21:36
Speaker 1: his name and a false number. What and they let
21:40
Speaker 1: him go so we could sit up here and talk
21:42
Speaker 1: about thuries The police department screwed this up. Okay, let
21:45
Speaker 1: me jump in and let y'all know just how bad
21:48
Speaker 1: so at a crime scene when you have a dead body,
21:51
Speaker 1: that dead body belongs to the medical examiner. That car
21:56
Speaker 1: belongs to me. Now, Detective A. Nina, I'll already know
22:00
Speaker 1: her highest solve rate in the United States as a
22:03
Speaker 1: homicide detective if she was my lead detective. That car
22:07
Speaker 1: belongs to me. Clear, I'm gonna tell her what I've got.
22:12
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell her what I found. Then she can
22:14
Speaker 1: go back over it with me. That's how we would
22:16
Speaker 1: work this. That car of Kate's. In the report from
22:22
Speaker 1: the criminalis said no fingerprints found on the car. What
22:28
Speaker 1: so what Kate got shot twice in the head and
22:30
Speaker 1: wiped her on prints off the car. It's not possible
22:35
Speaker 1: that her prints weren't on the car. Now, they could
22:38
Speaker 1: have meant no workable prints, no prints that didn't come
22:42
Speaker 1: back to the victim, but that's not what they wrote down.
22:46
Speaker 1: So I have an issue with that too. So while
22:48
Speaker 1: I'm doing so, then your theory is they either didn't
22:51
Speaker 1: do their job or the car was wiped down, correct,
22:54
Speaker 1: So which one is it? Well, that's where we are.
22:57
Speaker 1: But at the point that I would be in that vehicle,
23:00
Speaker 1: couldn't find a workable print or a good print, detective
23:03
Speaker 1: A Nina would be going to the judge to get
23:05
Speaker 1: a search warrant for her home to keep that car
23:08
Speaker 1: put a hold on that car. And I'll let the
23:10
Speaker 1: judge jump in at this point. But I just know
23:13
Speaker 1: that whole world would have stopped turning until we were
23:15
Speaker 1: done with it. And how do you have something off
23:17
Speaker 1: like that, Ashley? You do the subpoenis, You ask for
23:21
Speaker 1: the subpoenas, and I, as a judge, would sign them absolutely,
23:24
Speaker 1: if you have any probable cause to say to me,
23:26
Speaker 1: this is why we think there's evidence here. What this
23:28
Speaker 1: is evidence is I'm going to sign them. I get
23:30
Speaker 1: warrants in front of me all the time, all day long.
23:33
Speaker 1: I say, okay, detective, raise your right hand. Do you
23:35
Speaker 1: swear for him to tell the truth? Holding not much
23:36
Speaker 1: as oh my god, yes, all right, let's go tell
23:39
Speaker 1: me what you're putting this warrant and why, and I
23:40
Speaker 1: make sure there's probable cause, and if I am, I
23:43
Speaker 1: sign off. And I do it all the time for
23:45
Speaker 1: this reason, because you need to collect that evidence. Again,
23:47
Speaker 1: a search warrant, it's not beyond a reasonable doubt. It's
23:51
Speaker 1: just what the affiant, the one swearing, knows, and it
23:56
Speaker 1: can be hearsay, it can be anything that leaves needs
24:00
Speaker 1: them to believe. They need to search a location, a car,
24:04
Speaker 1: a locker, a person, get fingerprints, whatever they need. It's
24:09
Speaker 1: just probable cause. That's all you need, is a very
24:13
Speaker 1: low threshold and would have been very easy to get.
24:17
Speaker 1: And that's your station. You can't even get one on
24:18
Speaker 1: the phone. Yeah, and let me just add, if I
24:21
Speaker 1: had these ladies as my witnesses and a court case
24:24
Speaker 1: in front of me. It would be a great day, right,
24:26
Speaker 1: this is so unusual, Honestly, Detective, I'm just going to
24:29
Speaker 1: say this to have someone who's this transparent to say,
24:32
Speaker 1: this is what we found, This is what the evidence is,
24:34
Speaker 1: this is what was messed up. This. For a judge
24:37
Speaker 1: to hear this evidence or a jury to hear this
24:39
Speaker 1: evidence would be key crime stories. With Nancy Grace back
25:00
Speaker 1: to carry our kid. I want to go back to
25:03
Speaker 1: what happened in the hospital because it's not always admissible
25:07
Speaker 1: in court, but I like to know. I like to
25:11
Speaker 1: know where everybody was standing. In other words, what was
25:14
Speaker 1: the boyfriend doing, what was his demeanor, how did he
25:17
Speaker 1: interact with other people? Who else came to the hospital,
25:21
Speaker 1: what happened in the hours following her being pronounced dead
25:25
Speaker 1: and the hours leading up to that. I want to
25:28
Speaker 1: hear about everybody's demeanor at the hospital, and then what
25:31
Speaker 1: happened with her apartment. Yeah, my memories about what happened
25:37
Speaker 1: in the hospital. When I think back on it, it
25:43
Speaker 1: feels flat to me. My family isn't a family of
25:50
Speaker 1: big criers, very little histrionics. When I walked in, my
25:54
Speaker 1: mother was sitting by my sister and I had never
26:00
Speaker 1: I had never seen somebody in that situation before. And
26:04
Speaker 1: I remember my mother saying, touch her, she's warm, and
26:10
Speaker 1: somehow reaching out and holding my sister's hand. It reminded
26:16
Speaker 1: me of past Christmas and birthdays and it tied us
26:24
Speaker 1: all together in a very tight knot of love. Why
26:29
Speaker 1: did she say that, touch her, she's warm. I don't know.
26:33
Speaker 1: I think she. I think she needed me to. She
26:38
Speaker 1: knew how frightened I was, and I think she needed
26:41
Speaker 1: me to connect with Kate, not a body, and that
26:47
Speaker 1: was her way of doing it. And then when my
26:50
Speaker 1: first child was born, Aaron, one of my other sisters,
26:55
Speaker 1: Robin and mother created an entire, an entire record or
27:02
Speaker 1: tape of lullabies and it was called Songs from Dreamland.
27:07
Speaker 1: And Mother wrote all the lyrics and Robin wrote all
27:10
Speaker 1: the music and sang it. And I put on Songs
27:15
Speaker 1: of Dreamland and I figured that my sister's beautiful voice,
27:19
Speaker 1: in my mother's words, could sing Kate to sleep for
27:24
Speaker 1: the last time I was there for a while other
27:31
Speaker 1: siblings arrived. In these situations, you know, nobody knows what
27:38
Speaker 1: to do. You don't know whether you're supposed to sit
27:42
Speaker 1: by the bed or are you supposed to not talk?
27:45
Speaker 1: Can you talk? Should you go get that cup of coffee?
27:49
Speaker 1: We just we have no clue how this works, And
27:53
Speaker 1: so we stood around, just numb, not knowing what the
28:00
Speaker 1: next step was going to be. And at points yune
28:03
Speaker 1: the boyfriend came and went, and nobody wanted him there,
28:09
Speaker 1: but nobody knew how to tell him not to be
28:12
Speaker 1: there because he didn't. They want him there because it
28:16
Speaker 1: seemed like such an intimate experience to see, to witness
28:21
Speaker 1: Kate's last hours, and while he had been part of
28:25
Speaker 1: a family thanksgivings and such for a year or two,
28:30
Speaker 1: none of us really knew him, and we knew that
28:34
Speaker 1: he was having problems with Kate, and if she didn't
28:39
Speaker 1: want him there there being in her life or in
28:43
Speaker 1: their apartment, the idea of having him there at the
28:47
Speaker 1: time that she was taking her last breaths seemed like
28:52
Speaker 1: it dirtied. The situation just feels wrong. It feels wrong.
28:57
Speaker 1: But there he sits, with his back up against the
28:59
Speaker 1: wall in the hospital corridor, weeping. By the way, none
29:03
Speaker 1: of the rest of the family is weeping. We're all
29:05
Speaker 1: being stoic, but he's sitting there with his knees up
29:09
Speaker 1: to his chin weeping. We're all ignoring him. Did you
29:14
Speaker 1: know at that time she had changed the locks? I
29:17
Speaker 1: didn't know that, But you have to remember that I
29:20
Speaker 1: was a you know, a young mother, completely overwhelmed with
29:24
Speaker 1: two children and living in another state, you know, far away.
29:30
Speaker 1: I don't think. In fact, I'm quite sure that mother
29:33
Speaker 1: didn't know and daddy didn't know, because Kate was treating
29:36
Speaker 1: this all like a teenager treats things. I mean, if
29:40
Speaker 1: you tell your parents that your boyfriend is being awful
29:45
Speaker 1: to you, then when the boyfriend's not being awful to you, well,
29:52
Speaker 1: parents are like elephants. They never forget right. You may
29:55
Speaker 1: decide that you want to go back to that boyfriend,
29:58
Speaker 1: but your parents would always hold it against the boyfriend
30:02
Speaker 1: that he was hurting me. Oh, I'm still mad at
30:04
Speaker 1: Lucy's bully from the first grade. I see her every
30:10
Speaker 1: day the parking lot pick. I'm m h still mad
30:17
Speaker 1: about it. Yep. So I think that Kate was um.
30:21
Speaker 1: Kate was very intentionally not telling the family a lot, Detective.
30:34
Speaker 1: I I just see her from so down writhing. Okay. Well,
30:40
Speaker 1: and another thing, guys, is this and she just told
30:42
Speaker 1: me this morning but I assumed this based on the books,
30:45
Speaker 1: is that the police or the detectives never spoke with
30:47
Speaker 1: the family. What yeah, what like? And I told her,
30:52
Speaker 1: I said, if I were at the scene that night,
30:54
Speaker 1: you know, and I and I try to be um compassionate.
30:58
Speaker 1: I'm the detective on this, which means, here's my cell number, right,
31:02
Speaker 1: call me if you need me. I know the next
31:04
Speaker 1: couple days are going to be difficult. I need to
31:08
Speaker 1: speak with you as soon as possible. I'll contact you
31:13
Speaker 1: after the funeral, but if you need me before, call me.
31:15
Speaker 1: The family was never ever interviewed. The people that are
31:19
Speaker 1: the closest to you have the answers, right. The sisters
31:23
Speaker 1: knew a little bit that she was into some stuff
31:26
Speaker 1: a little bit. There was a little bit of a
31:28
Speaker 1: feeling of it. That's information that I need to know.
31:31
Speaker 1: That's that's that's a clue. Right, So you go to
31:34
Speaker 1: the closest people, the boyfriend, I would still be talking
31:37
Speaker 1: to him now. I want to go talk to him now,
31:38
Speaker 1: he's gon how fourney he wants to go? Right? You know,
31:40
Speaker 1: it's another interesting thing. Anybody on this jump in. You
31:46
Speaker 1: take social cues and if the rest of the family
31:50
Speaker 1: is standing there being stoic. Yeah, why would you be
31:55
Speaker 1: in a ball out in the hall crying because okay, ladies,
32:01
Speaker 1: I know, let me just say it. A man, why
32:06
Speaker 1: is he out there crying in a ball and with
32:10
Speaker 1: the mother and the sisters trying to be strong. I mean,
32:14
Speaker 1: the whole picture is just there's something really wrong. What's
32:19
Speaker 1: happening now? Akay? Where does it stand? Now? Oh? Hold on,
32:22
Speaker 1: hold on, wait wait, I just wanted to um, yeah,
32:25
Speaker 1: we are kind of a female dominant family. But you
32:29
Speaker 1: said the mother and the sisters, and I want to
32:31
Speaker 1: make it clear that my daddy was involved. He is
32:36
Speaker 1: a part of this puzzle. He's the quiet one with
32:39
Speaker 1: mother being so um well known, and he is an engineer,
32:45
Speaker 1: kind of a personality reticent. But he was there and
32:49
Speaker 1: two brothers as well, so we we just Yeah, I'd
32:54
Speaker 1: kind of like to stereotypical because I'd think if anyone
32:58
Speaker 1: it would probably be one of the younger sisters that
33:01
Speaker 1: would break down and start crying, not the dad. Um.
33:06
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is why is he behaving that
33:09
Speaker 1: way when no one else is. It just doesn't prove anything, no,
33:14
Speaker 1: but I noticed it. It's a note in my head. Um,
33:19
Speaker 1: what what is happening now, Cheryl? Where where can we
33:22
Speaker 1: go from here? Well, it's been about thirty years and
33:25
Speaker 1: it's right where it was. Basically, Um, I was able
33:29
Speaker 1: to go to the spin on that to make a
33:31
Speaker 1: sound a little bit better. I absolutely cannot make it
33:35
Speaker 1: sound any better. I'm gonna be really honest with you.
33:40
Speaker 1: I don't want it to sound any better. I want
33:42
Speaker 1: everybody to leave here just as frustrated as Lois and
33:46
Speaker 1: Carry and the rest of the family. I mean, I've
33:49
Speaker 1: met with her brothers, Cheryl, I don't understand here. Let
33:52
Speaker 1: me tell you some things we were told, because y'all
33:54
Speaker 1: are gonna love this. I met with the prosecutor and
33:57
Speaker 1: she flat told me that because Lois wrote a book
34:02
Speaker 1: and outline the case and outline too, you know, she
34:05
Speaker 1: thought was involved, that she had harmed any future prosecution
34:09
Speaker 1: that could happen because she interjected some reasonable doubt if
34:13
Speaker 1: it turned out not to be the person that Lois highlighted.
34:17
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. There's something every single person in
34:20
Speaker 1: this room can do, and that's one care that is
34:23
Speaker 1: to research this case on your own. You'll see what
34:26
Speaker 1: we see. It's there when the police show up because
34:31
Speaker 1: I'm still at the scene. I'm not even at the
34:32
Speaker 1: hospital yet. And understand, there are reports and there are
34:38
Speaker 1: affidavids from the folks that wrote in that amulance and
34:42
Speaker 1: EMS said there were no police when they arrived on scene.
34:46
Speaker 1: How in God's name is that possible? When we get
34:49
Speaker 1: to a scene, we put a rookie in the middle
34:51
Speaker 1: of the street, and that rookie flags them down. If
34:54
Speaker 1: they could have missed this scene? Back up a little
34:57
Speaker 1: bit more. The police report says it's a single car,
35:00
Speaker 1: a crash with no injuries. For the love of all
35:03
Speaker 1: of it is good and holy. How and that's that
35:06
Speaker 1: was reported? It gets even better. Guess who found the
35:09
Speaker 1: bullet hole in the car? Ems, shut your mouth, Not
35:16
Speaker 1: the detective, not the police officer, somebody that rode the ambulance.
35:23
Speaker 1: So do I think that the police are embarrassed? Yes?
35:26
Speaker 1: Do I think they want Lois to shut up? Yes?
35:28
Speaker 1: Do I think they want this case to go away? Yes?
35:31
Speaker 1: They should be embarrassed when they say the single car
35:34
Speaker 1: crashed with no injuries and it turns out others a
35:36
Speaker 1: dead girl with a couple of bullet holes in her head,
35:38
Speaker 1: And then they say what address are you at? They say,
35:40
Speaker 1: there ain't no address here. I've walked the scene myself.
35:44
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you right now if I'm facing east
35:46
Speaker 1: west north of South Okay, I'm one of those you
35:49
Speaker 1: know people in law enforces that say you better tell
35:52
Speaker 1: me you were getting your ass kicked behind the waffle
35:54
Speaker 1: house so I can find you. Don't tell me you're
35:57
Speaker 1: northeast of Bourbon Street, because I don't know where you are,
36:00
Speaker 1: all right. They said there's no address. When I walk
36:03
Speaker 1: the scene big as Dallas, there's the address. Okay. Let
36:06
Speaker 1: me understand that the prosecutor told you, yes, that they
36:12
Speaker 1: can't prosecute the case because the mother had a different
36:17
Speaker 1: theory and wrote a book about it. Can I just
36:19
Speaker 1: remind you about what you reminded me of I had
36:24
Speaker 1: a triple homicide? Or the mother of the victim. Yes,
36:27
Speaker 1: Lord got up on the stand. She did go ahead.
36:33
Speaker 1: This was so dramatic. We had a triple homicide. Now
36:37
Speaker 1: imagine that that's enough. Nancy Grace is in the courtroom
36:40
Speaker 1: being Nancy Grace, and she's got the jury in the
36:44
Speaker 1: palm of her hand, and the mama gets on the
36:46
Speaker 1: stand and the jury is right with her locked in
36:49
Speaker 1: and that mama points to that shooter and she said,
36:52
Speaker 1: that is not who shot my son. Well, I'm sitting
36:57
Speaker 1: there going, well, this is an old moment. What's Nancy
37:02
Speaker 1: Gray's gonna do about this one? Right? All of a sudden,
37:06
Speaker 1: I turned without missing a bee. Nancy handles it so
37:09
Speaker 1: beautifully that jury goes right back to Nancy because Nancy
37:13
Speaker 1: explains what shock and trauma and disbelief can do to
37:17
Speaker 1: a victim. On top of where does that mama have
37:20
Speaker 1: to go back and live in that neighborhood with those shooters?
37:25
Speaker 1: In the shooters family convicted crime stories with Nancy Grace.
37:43
Speaker 1: My point is that's a lie to say the mother
37:47
Speaker 1: has a different theory. How many people have read the book?
37:51
Speaker 1: How many people have read the book? Awesome? Okay, so
37:55
Speaker 1: you can't tell me that you can't move it to
37:57
Speaker 1: a jurisdiction where coming and read the book? Can? People?
38:00
Speaker 1: Like five people raise their hand. But so the judicial
38:04
Speaker 1: system's specifically designed. I believe in our justice system, and
38:07
Speaker 1: let me say this, it's specifically designed to handle those situations.
38:10
Speaker 1: You do move jurisdictions for any prosecutor to ever say
38:14
Speaker 1: we can't prosecute that case because there's reasonable that should
38:17
Speaker 1: that person should no longer be allowed to try a
38:19
Speaker 1: case as a prosecutor ever ever can ask questions, can
38:28
Speaker 1: you believe Renee Rockwell has a question? It questions? This
38:36
Speaker 1: is to the detective number one? Where are the important
38:41
Speaker 1: witnesses at this point? Well boyfriends in California living in
38:45
Speaker 1: a townhouse. Okay, this is a This is a situation
38:50
Speaker 1: where even today the statute of limitations has not run
38:54
Speaker 1: on the investigation. Correct, correct man in that state? How
38:58
Speaker 1: long can you put as to get a hold on
39:01
Speaker 1: the person? The problem is is this is that I've
39:05
Speaker 1: got to get law enforcement. If I were to take
39:07
Speaker 1: this case, if she said, hey, take it, which I
39:09
Speaker 1: want to, I want to go, you know I would.
39:13
Speaker 1: I would go find him. But the problem is in
39:16
Speaker 1: the bigger picture of this, and we probably might even
39:17
Speaker 1: have time to go into it, is the fact that
39:19
Speaker 1: the police department doesn't want anything to do with this. So,
39:21
Speaker 1: as I was talking to her before this podcast, We've
39:23
Speaker 1: got to find somebody in the Albuquerque Police Department that
39:26
Speaker 1: has a freaking heart right and says that this is wrong,
39:30
Speaker 1: and and police officers were awful at it. We're ego driven,
39:33
Speaker 1: We're like we're right. It's just it's just not that way.
39:37
Speaker 1: We're humans. We got to go in there and say, look,
39:39
Speaker 1: we really mess this up. This was wrong. We have
39:42
Speaker 1: grieving family. It is our duty as police officers, my
39:45
Speaker 1: duty when I said I'm gonna be a police officer,
39:47
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do what I can for you. So my
39:50
Speaker 1: job today, if I could say anything, is I'll say, look,
39:52
Speaker 1: I've dive it. I've dove into this case for three weeks.
39:55
Speaker 1: I want to give you, if nothing else, hope, right,
40:00
Speaker 1: And that what everybody wants. They want somebody to say,
40:02
Speaker 1: you know what, I've looked at this case. I give
40:03
Speaker 1: a I'm gonna go do everything I can do to
40:07
Speaker 1: bring you some answers because in her, in her opinion
40:10
Speaker 1: and the family's opinion, the police department failed her. That's horrible.
40:14
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll be able to solve everything. But I'll
40:16
Speaker 1: tell you what, no family that I have ever ever
40:19
Speaker 1: ever dealt with said I didn't do everything I possibly
40:22
Speaker 1: could preach. That's what we have to get in closing.
40:26
Speaker 1: It screams to me with this fraud overview that perhaps
40:31
Speaker 1: somebody in the police department is involved. Absolutely, Nancy, can
40:36
Speaker 1: I just absolutely so that's what I was trying to
40:39
Speaker 1: paint the pictures. So Nancy and I had a case
40:41
Speaker 1: a long long time ago where this family went out
40:44
Speaker 1: of this way to tell us how this little beauty
40:46
Speaker 1: girl got out of the house on her own and
40:48
Speaker 1: must you just run off and was lost somehow? Okay,
40:52
Speaker 1: that's got to be the most perfect storm for all
40:56
Speaker 1: of those things to line up and happen, for this
40:58
Speaker 1: car to have no fingerprints, for there not to be
41:02
Speaker 1: an address, for it to be a single car crashed,
41:05
Speaker 1: no injuries. Excuse me for them to have, you know,
41:10
Speaker 1: the police not stay at the scene and flag down MS,
41:13
Speaker 1: for them not to call for the amulance. What bothers
41:16
Speaker 1: me is that you have let's say it was a
41:22
Speaker 1: stranger and a happenstance at a drive by shooting and
41:25
Speaker 1: we don't know the person. How freaking lucky are they
41:30
Speaker 1: that all of these in up cops were the ones
41:33
Speaker 1: that showed up. I don't believe that. I don't believe
41:37
Speaker 1: in that kind of coincidence. I never will, I never have.
41:40
Speaker 1: You got a seasoned detective that's on scene within forty seconds,
41:45
Speaker 1: forty seconds and they don't call for an amulets ask
41:49
Speaker 1: your question, what about ballistics? Since they managed to get
41:53
Speaker 1: one of the bullets, I assume they did a ballistics test.
41:58
Speaker 1: I think they said that they were twenty twos. At
42:01
Speaker 1: first they were thirty two that fall. That's not hard
42:05
Speaker 1: to mess that up. That the calibers on the bullet
42:07
Speaker 1: look at it. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, And then
42:15
Speaker 1: but they said it was a twenty to the nancy,
42:18
Speaker 1: what do you think? No, Well, I mean that this
42:22
Speaker 1: is the problem. This case unfortunately represented a huger issue
42:28
Speaker 1: in the new Albuquerque Police Department. So what can we
42:31
Speaker 1: do now? And I believe you have something you want
42:34
Speaker 1: to read? Yeah, I would What can we do now? Well,
42:37
Speaker 1: I mean you got the biggest voice in here. You know.
42:40
Speaker 1: We could go to we're doing it. We can go
42:42
Speaker 1: to um uh, the Albuquerque Police Department, we could go
42:46
Speaker 1: to the mayor. We could go to somebody that has
42:48
Speaker 1: some power, and all they have to say is we
42:50
Speaker 1: need this, this case to be reopened. If we need
42:53
Speaker 1: to bring in somebody, and I wouldn't bring in anybody
42:55
Speaker 1: from the Albuquerque Police Department, I would go what I'd
42:59
Speaker 1: call change firsdictions on that. We'll get somebody brand new. Well,
43:03
Speaker 1: you just go over one step up and get up. Yeah. Absolutely,
43:07
Speaker 1: go to the chief, Go to the chief, go to
43:10
Speaker 1: the mayor, find a special prosecutor. Absolutely. I was just
43:14
Speaker 1: curious when em Best wrote the report. Was she found
43:17
Speaker 1: on the passenger side of the driver's side, passenger side
43:20
Speaker 1: with the windows down. This window was shattered, So again
43:25
Speaker 1: somebody should have noticed the driver's side window was shattered
43:28
Speaker 1: and the bullet hole. So again you've got police officers
43:30
Speaker 1: on the scene that didn't notice that, the MT's notice that.
43:34
Speaker 1: So again she was driving. She was driving. Last side
43:40
Speaker 1: fell over, but she veered all the way over to
43:43
Speaker 1: the left. She went over all those lanes of traffic
43:45
Speaker 1: in the media and jumped the curve, hit the telephone
43:48
Speaker 1: pole and came to rest. But there was fresh damage
43:50
Speaker 1: to her back bump her. So somebody could have tapped
43:54
Speaker 1: her to try to stop her. They rammed her, stopped her,
43:56
Speaker 1: shot her. Is it possible she was in the passenger
43:59
Speaker 1: side somebody else was driving and then she was pushed
44:02
Speaker 1: into the driver scene. No, no, even her shoes, everything
44:06
Speaker 1: was here. I mean you could see even in the
44:08
Speaker 1: car there was void were some of the glass where
44:10
Speaker 1: she was sitting. And then she slumps over. So when
44:13
Speaker 1: she shot, you know, she goes that way. Yes, pursue
44:21
Speaker 1: it from another idle, even from somebody else not out.
44:28
Speaker 1: I believe the family tried the FBI got the same result.
44:30
Speaker 1: What happened was I think they contacted the FBI. With
44:34
Speaker 1: the FBI they need to have They needed that new
44:37
Speaker 1: Albuquerque Police Department to ask the FBI, and they didn't
44:40
Speaker 1: ask them. They said, we don't need your help. We
44:43
Speaker 1: got this. Do we still have the vehicle impound? Where's
44:47
Speaker 1: the vehicle? Nancy? They never put an evidently hold on
44:53
Speaker 1: the vehicle. The vehicle is never even transferred from the scene.
44:56
Speaker 1: That's horrible. There's a there's a The first thing is
44:58
Speaker 1: with the scene. I have some she's with the vehicle
45:00
Speaker 1: even being driven. What I think my theory is is
45:03
Speaker 1: it was pitted. Okay, it was hit from behind. It
45:05
Speaker 1: was pitted. She rolls into the pole after she was shot.
45:09
Speaker 1: Been on many homicide cases where the victim has been
45:11
Speaker 1: shot in the car and they roll into a pole. Okay,
45:13
Speaker 1: with that type of shot. And I told sherless before,
45:16
Speaker 1: on my best day, and I'm pretty good shot on
45:19
Speaker 1: my best day with God sitting on my shoulder, hell no,
45:22
Speaker 1: could I've executed those shots into her face? No freaking way.
45:26
Speaker 1: Could they tell if there was any gunshot residue, was
45:29
Speaker 1: it a point blank or within three feet? I mean,
45:32
Speaker 1: you're asking things that should have the medical exam. I
45:36
Speaker 1: can tell you there's a photograph of Kate in the
45:39
Speaker 1: hospital and her hands are bagged. What her hands are bagged?
45:44
Speaker 1: So that means they had to look at the gunshot wound.
45:48
Speaker 1: If you shoot about thirty six inches or lest, there
45:52
Speaker 1: should be a gunshot residue on your body that comes
45:56
Speaker 1: from the weapon. After that, it's too sign like talcum
45:59
Speaker 1: pound to go much further than that. So to right,
46:04
Speaker 1: when I do gunshot residue on a shooter or a
46:07
Speaker 1: assumed shooter, I will do the top of their hand separately,
46:12
Speaker 1: I'll do the inside of their hand. So if there's
46:15
Speaker 1: gunshot residue here, were you doing like this? Right? Because
46:19
Speaker 1: if you're holding the gun, it shouldn't be there. It
46:21
Speaker 1: should be void. Does that make sense? Okay? And I'll
46:24
Speaker 1: do both hands exact same way. Because you'll see on
46:26
Speaker 1: TV they do this. Don't ever do that. Don't watch TV.
46:30
Speaker 1: Don't do Yeah, the next time they take a GSR,
46:34
Speaker 1: they won't do that now. The only time CSI is
46:36
Speaker 1: like TV is when the really sexy girl shows up
46:39
Speaker 1: in the hummer and that's all real. That's us us.
46:43
Speaker 1: I don't know why we're not on TV. Yeah, baby,
46:46
Speaker 1: we're here, and y'all, y'all are sexy. Did I hear
46:50
Speaker 1: you right? That they reported as a single car accident
46:53
Speaker 1: with no injuries. That's a fact. That would be the
46:56
Speaker 1: first mess up of the scene, bess hearing that, And
47:00
Speaker 1: they also had no address for whereas see. That makes
47:03
Speaker 1: me question the eyewitness because if she was ran from behind,
47:07
Speaker 1: that's not what the eyewitness really said. But remember one
47:09
Speaker 1: of your eyewitnesses as an own felon that was standing
47:12
Speaker 1: by the car and was not taken downtown and shot too.
47:17
Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna leave a witness. You have somebody
47:19
Speaker 1: that went to prison for harm and women standing by
47:22
Speaker 1: a car with a dead girl in it, and you go, okay,
47:25
Speaker 1: you may go have a good evening. Can I jump
47:28
Speaker 1: in right there about the witness. That's one of the
47:31
Speaker 1: theories about maybe why the police didn't pursue this case
47:36
Speaker 1: as much as they should have, because that man that
47:38
Speaker 1: was standing next to the car with the dead girl
47:41
Speaker 1: with a mortally wounded girl in it, had a violent
47:45
Speaker 1: criminal history, violence against women, sexual assault of his step sister,
47:51
Speaker 1: so that he could go to jail and protect a
47:53
Speaker 1: relative from being hurt in prison. Just on and on
47:58
Speaker 1: and on. And they didn't even run his name. So
48:03
Speaker 1: that was one of the theories that the family had
48:06
Speaker 1: that maybe they were trying to cover their tracks because
48:08
Speaker 1: it was such a terrible mistake. I want to get
48:11
Speaker 1: all your questions in pronto, go ahead of anybody, won't
48:16
Speaker 1: be out the prison life. Sorry. Okay, So you said
48:20
Speaker 1: that there was a bug or a Volkswagen whatever, and
48:24
Speaker 1: there was a boyfriend. The boyfriend had a connection to
48:27
Speaker 1: that kind of car, right, No, no earth witness? So
48:31
Speaker 1: was that car ever checked to see if it adding
48:32
Speaker 1: any damage on the front buffer? What do you think? Yeah? Yeah, So, Actually,
48:38
Speaker 1: as I understand it, the witness at the scene when
48:44
Speaker 1: the first cop drove up, he found this man standing there.
48:48
Speaker 1: The man had a VW bug also. By the time
48:55
Speaker 1: er arrived and said there was nobody at the scene,
49:01
Speaker 1: the man and the bug had been allowed to leave,
49:05
Speaker 1: and the cops had left, he'd have been in cuffs.
49:11
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna say again, how lucky is that shooter.
49:20
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Is the entire police department on the take?
49:30
Speaker 1: I didn't hear the class the entire police department on
49:32
Speaker 1: the take. I can just tell you no, because people
49:35
Speaker 1: can't keep their mouths shut for that long. And we
49:37
Speaker 1: need to find that one officer, right Like when somebody
49:40
Speaker 1: I always say this, when somebody tells you a secret,
49:41
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you the secret. You gotta swear to
49:43
Speaker 1: God you're not gonna tell anybody. Swear I swear. I
49:46
Speaker 1: mean that's where all the theories about OJ's conspiracy cover
49:50
Speaker 1: up that did not happen. Uh, she wants to know
49:57
Speaker 1: you believe anyone within the force is connected to the
50:00
Speaker 1: crime ring I do. It only takes one. Again, you
50:06
Speaker 1: had one of the police officers that was on the
50:08
Speaker 1: scene later arrested for robin a bank. Absolutely. Well, it
50:13
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like this was investigated very well. So this
50:16
Speaker 1: is probably a dumb question. I've read that what about
50:18
Speaker 1: this friend that she was going to visit and the
50:21
Speaker 1: written directions to your house? I mean, the shooter had
50:25
Speaker 1: to know where she was to be able to gun
50:28
Speaker 1: her down. Um, so was she ever questioned? Um? You know,
50:32
Speaker 1: I think she was a questioned. This is how this
50:36
Speaker 1: went down. She was questioned, I think, and then she
50:39
Speaker 1: said she didn't have anything to say, and the detective
50:41
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, that's not how any of that works, right, guys,
50:44
Speaker 1: there's a special thing. Um. I want you to hear
50:50
Speaker 1: that our guest has written. Um. Can I do it here?
50:55
Speaker 1: Or do it right? Uh? And of course she threw
50:59
Speaker 1: it to me. I have to open the phone. So
51:05
Speaker 1: you talk about anniversaries and you think of them as
51:07
Speaker 1: being something lovely. You know, it's it's your wedding anniversary.
51:13
Speaker 1: Kate's thirty year shooting anniversary is July sixteenth. And like
51:23
Speaker 1: my mother, I am an author, and this is the
51:26
Speaker 1: message I would like to send out there. You, you
51:33
Speaker 1: who killed my sister, You who know who killed my sister,
51:37
Speaker 1: You who suspect who killed my sister, are aging. The
51:42
Speaker 1: day will come when you discover a lump in your breast,
51:45
Speaker 1: a swelling in your growing blood, in a palm when
51:48
Speaker 1: you cough. There will be a time when you're told
51:52
Speaker 1: that a test result showed something too frightening to look
51:56
Speaker 1: at directly, and you will cry out to God. You
51:59
Speaker 1: will try to make deals and promise him, anything, everything.
52:04
Speaker 1: If only you are spared, you would not the courage
52:09
Speaker 1: the spine during your life to do the right thing,
52:12
Speaker 1: to lessen the suffering of my family by speaking the truth.
52:17
Speaker 1: And now you cry out to be spared your own suffering. Listen,
52:25
Speaker 1: that's God laughing for our recording. If you have information
52:38
Speaker 1: regarding the cheeting death of Caitlin Arquett, just eighteen years
52:42
Speaker 1: old at the time she was shot, please call five
52:47
Speaker 1: zero five eight four three stop repeat five zero five
52:51
Speaker 1: eight four three seven eight six seven. Nancy Grace Crime
52:57
Speaker 1: Story signing off, goodbye, friend W