Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / For the Love of Books | a conversation with publicist Jana Muntsinger

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For the Love of Books | a conversation with publicist Jana Muntsinger · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:17
SPEAKER_01: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: And if you are new here, we are so glad you've joined us.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Ashley Pittman and I, Amy Wicks, are your hosts of the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: We believe we are all on a journey to live out the call to love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Our mission is to inspire and equip you to live an unplugged, purposeful, and intentional life.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: We hope to encourage you by sharing stories of friends, new and old alike, who are living out their calling and purpose with passion.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Hey, and thanks to our friends from Inner the Worship Circle.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Ben Pasley and Carla Adolph have been so kind to share their song that you hear in the background.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: It's called Heavenly Things, and it's from their album down here and up above.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: Be sure and follow them for their latest releases and profound thoughts at Inertheworship Circle.com.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: Today, our guest is the lovely Jana Mutzinger.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: She is a publicist for several well-known authors.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: And we do let her name drop near the end of our conversation.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: And let's just say I was blown away as I had no previous knowledge of some of those incredible folks that she has partnered with through the years.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Jana and I met because of my dear friend Sarah Hagerty.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: And through the book launch process of her last book, Unseen, immediately as I got to know Janet and talk with her over the phone, I knew I'd found a kindred spirit, and I also knew there were many things that I hoped to learn from her.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure that many of us truly understand all that goes on to get a book out there these days.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: And whether you read yours on a Kindle or a phone app or a paperback or hardback, the amount of work that goes into a book, uh, the process, you know, publishing process of a book, it's difficult to measure.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: So much time and talent goes into a seemingly inexpensive and a disposable resource.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, Jayna graciously offered her valuable time to indulge Ashley and I with her experienced answers and insights about the book publishing process.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: It's truly fascinating.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: We asked her things about self-publishing versus traditional publishing, all the different titles and rules involved in the book process, and we also asked her some of her favorite books to date.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Now, if you are new around here, you may not know that we are coming up on our year anniversary of this podcast.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: I can't believe it, and we do plan to celebrate Big, so be sure and stay tuned for some fun things around the corner.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: But because we have over 40 episodes, and a lot of them I've shared some of my favorite reads or some really incredible authors and books, I want to give you an easy shortcut to our simply wholehearted book list.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: This checklist will be handy if you're taking a spring break trip, maybe in just a few weeks, or if you're just wanting some ideas of what to read next.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: You'll find a link for this in our show notes, as always.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: And remember, I mentioned I was making a decision about taking a course with your Aneagram coach at the beginning of the last episode.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, I've made a decision, and I'll be sure and share it right after this conversation with Jana Munsinger.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, also, you'll notice it's a little hard to hear Ashley in this episode.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, it was human error mine, um, which caused her mic not to be turned on.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: But listen carefully.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you can still hear her, and I promise she's there, not in a tunnel.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: So, um, but anyway, Jana is a superstar.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: She's a publicist, which we're gonna learn more about what that all is, because I I mean this was my first go-around with the publishing world, and I'm learning a ton.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's so good.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: But she is a publisher publicist extraordinaire, if I can get that a lot.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: She is she actually just an updated um of all like the plan of what she has done for Sarah's book and then wants to continue.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: And she's just one piece of the puzzle.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: And I mean it's extensive, but I'm like, wow, she's really done due diligence.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: It's amazing how much goes into the shelves and into your hands.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's surprising.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: And she has to get really creative because she does the free um publicity pieces.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: Free.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: So so the difference between like a paid ad that you would see in a magazine or hear on a radio show or on a TV station, or even like the paid ads that would be on a website, that's something that the other side of the marketing, the advertising people do.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: I do the free interviews, the free postings, the you know, anything that's free, the interview that they just say, here's so-and-so that's gonna talk about their book.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: That's what I do.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Op-eds that somebody would write.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: So if it's free, it's me.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: So like when And if you know people want to be on our podcast or we want them on the podcast, it's a mutually beneficial thing.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: So, you know.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you have to pay money to be on podcasts.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: I have heard that, but we're um we're not that sort.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: And the I will tell you there are not that many podcasts that ask you to pay to be on it.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: There are a few, but most there's there are quite a few websites that if you want to have something on a certain website, then they'll ask you to pay for that.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so blogs and that sort of thing.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Blogs and that sort of things.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: If they have especially with they have email numbers.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Right now, podcasting has become so big that there's so many new podcasts.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: I can't even keep them all keep up with them.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Oh my word.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: It's one of those where it's still kind of the wild west of I don't know, social media, the inner, you know, the internet, because it's not super regulated.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I keep getting updates about how you know a lot of those things are gonna be implemented here soon, even hashtags and SOS or SOIS, all these, you know, different things that I don't know anything about.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we'll see what happens.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure some people will get weeded out and we'll either have to figure it out or we have to give up.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: So but um, but anyway, and then someone will make money teaching people like me um how to navigate all of it.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, we can I guess that's true.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Jana, tell us um, all right, so we've established that you're a publicist, and I know you because of Sarah, the lovely Sarah Hagerty, and working on her amazing book, and that has been a ton of fun.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: Now, did you work with her on her first book, Every Better Thing is Sweet?
6:56
SPEAKER_00: I did.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: I happened to be, this is not typical, but I happened to be at the sales conference about it was probably nine months before her book released.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: And it was it, they were just introducing it to the sales team there at HarperCollins Christian Publishing, and I was in the audience because I had an author that was there speaking.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: So I was in Nashville for this, and the book cover came up and I was like, oh, oh, that's beautiful.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: And then Sarah, they had it produced a beautiful video of Sarah talking about every better thing is sweet.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: And I just it it just captured my heart.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: And I said, I have to work on this book.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: And I wrote it down.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Sarah Haggerty, I had never heard of her.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: So then I made a beeline immediately after that presentation to the publicist and said, I have to work on this.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: I have to work on this book.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And she was like, What?
7:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm sorry, I have to work on this book.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: And I we have a really strict policy.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: I talk in we because I'm a business partner and we've been had had our little small agency, McClure-Munsinger Public Relations, for since 1999, so 18 years.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: So I know for a long time, it's a long time.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: But um, but so when we have had a hard and fast policy for the last 18 years, it took us a year to figure this out.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: We don't do publicity for a book unless we can read the whole thing.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: Because if the book is not good, the best PR campaign, the best publicist in the whole wide world will not hold up to it.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: If if it's a if it's just a good blog post or maybe good couple chapters, yeah, then that's still not enough to do a whole book PR campaign for us because we're book readers and book lovers.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: So this was one of the very few times that I said, I have to work on that.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: And I don't even care if the book's not very good.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: I just have to work with Sarah.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: And then she sent me the manuscript, like really rough manuscript, and I just fell in love with it and was like, oh my goodness, this was a gift from God.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: So I it really cut was a video and a book cover that I said I have to work on every bitter thing to sweet.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: And so then now with their second book, I was really um obnoxious.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: I'd heard it was coming out, and so I circled around that same publicist and said, you know, I have to work on this again.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was even kind of asking Sarah, I was like, Well, how does that work?
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Do you get to, you know, those who are independent of a publisher, you know, can you ask them to be, you know, part of the deal where you get to work with certain people and things like that?
9:12
SPEAKER_01: Because I would think that would be huge.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, and trying to get the word out, working with people that you love or who at least you feel like has your back.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: It it has been a real privilege.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: We've been able to do that with some significant authors, work with them long enough to get them launched.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that has been a privilege, but that is more the exception than the rule.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: And that's because publishing has changed so much.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: And and I also get that sometimes you're like, okay, we need to shake this up.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: This is the author's third book.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Let's get a whole new PR team, get a whole new launch strategy, get a whole new everything.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, it's just it's completely, it's a completely different thing.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: So I could totally understand what he says, okay, you've done the last three books, we're gonna get somebody new.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: But there have been some significant authors that we've worked with for many, many books, and it was just a delight.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: So that's awesome.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so 18 years in the business and maybe more, but you guys owning, you know, and doing your own thing.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: So tell us, I mean, it has evolved a ton.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't even I mean, the social media aspect alone, that's quite oh well.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: I first started in publicity, it was just general market publicity up in Washington, DC, and working for a big PR firm.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: And I had a friend for of mine from college from Baylor, who was working for Word Publishing at the time, and she was their director of PR.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: And so she and I would talk back and forth.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: And so that's how I got hired.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: I was in-house for about eight years at Word Publishing, working for them, as and was the director of the PR department and loved it.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: It has changed so radically, even in the last five years, with their emphasis on platform and on launch teams and on social media.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: It is it is a completely different world than when I first started um two decades ago.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: So, but it's it's great.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, because part of even so, you know, just dipping my toes into the publishing world and all that sort of stuff.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: But I've been just, I don't know, educating myself with different podcasts and you know, reading about, you know, how you do the process and whether you do self-publishing and all that.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Because I was um uh kind of took over a book project with my mother-in-law and was investigating what that might look like.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, even the platform concept alone is a little bit daunting for the average person.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: So just speak to that, how you frame that and how you work with it, and how do you also go, so what if you're only here you can if you have quality work, you can grow it or you know, you can make it what it needs to be.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: I have people ask me all the time, I've got a book I want to get published.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm I usually say, I'm gonna, okay, I'm gonna back back up from that.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to, do you feel like you have a message that could be evolved into multiple books, or do you have a story that you feel like this is one book that I have to get out?
11:59
SPEAKER_00: And so I'll tell people all the time, self-publishing is a great option.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: It used to be called vanity publishing for a reason, and it's not anymore.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: If someone says, I have this one, you know, I have a memoir-esque type story that I really have to get out, and I really feel like God has called me to publish this book.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, explore self-publishing.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: That is an excellent option.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it costs you money, but yes, you get to control the whole thing from start to finish.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: So you control what the book looks like, you control what the book cover looks like, you you control how it's marketed, and then you can also sometimes make a lot more money because you're selling it yourself and you're cutting out the middleman of a publisher.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: So it that is a very viable option.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: There are many, many different self-publishing platforms out there.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Some people that will do just get the book out, and then there's others that will walk with you through the whole process that have some of the best professional editors and packagers that are working for publishers as well as working for people who want to self-publish.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: So there's so many different ways you can do it, and it is a very viable option.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're a person who says, no, I've got a message that I've got multiple books, and I really want to publish many, many books and want to partner with a publisher.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: I would love to see about getting foreign rights because I feel like my book and my message and what I'm can say could impact people all around the world.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Then I'm like, okay, then you got to go with a traditional publisher.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Wow, interesting.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: And and so, and and both of them are very viable.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: You may not make as much money.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Back when I started, there were many authors that their full-time livable wage was from their book publishing.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't know of anyone, with the exception of the hugest, biggest authors out there that can make their full living just by their book, books that they write and the publishing, if they're doing a traditional publishing.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: It's extreme.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it is way different than even 10 years ago.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Because, well, um probably 10 years ago there were about half as many books being published as there are now.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Really?
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's a lot more books being published, and we've seen I've seen advances for authors.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't work on that side, but I hear a lot about it that advances are going smaller and smaller and smaller for an author.
14:26
SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Where a six-figure advance 10 years ago was not that unheard of.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Now you you have to be the biggest of the big with a huge social media platform and a huge following to get anything even half of that amount.
14:41
unknown: Yeah.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not sure.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: So it it's go ahead.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: I was just wondering, I'm thinking about blogging, how blogging just exploded.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: And it seems like a lot of people, well, if you had a blog, next thing you know, oh, let's get you a book or let's turn this into a book.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Does that account for the the rise in publishing, do you think?
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I think that um that a lot of people um uh it's what I call spaghetti publishing, that sometimes the publishers will cook that book and throw it against the wall and see what sticks.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: This is what we'll actually sell through.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that that is very much the new thing that they're doing with blogs and bloggers who write books.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how many books that we MMPR have turned down when we have been approached by a publisher saying, Oh, there's this blogger and she's amazing, or he's amazing.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: And can you, you know, can you read this book and submit a proposal for us?
15:33
SPEAKER_00: And we'll go, wow, that would be a great blog poster too, but it's not enough to be a book.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: And so we'll turn it down because it's not a book.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a very rare person who can take a blogging platform and turn it into a book that is fully cooked, that is, that is substantive, that is weighty enough, that has enough intelligence and thoughtfulness to it.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Not saying that blogs, blogs are different to being an entire book.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: And so that to me is I think that's where we find a lot of people who will be like, oh, I love her as a blogger, but then I read her book and it was okay.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: That's that I think that's happening more and more often.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: I also there are some books just lately that I've read that were from bloggers that felt like a blog.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: They just they felt like just a series of essays.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: So they weren't they weren't strong enough.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: And there wasn't enough cohes, not not enough cohesiveness to be a a true book.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: So I'm a reader, I'm a lifelong lover of books and reader.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: And so I just feel like that books need to deliver.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: And especially when we're asking somebody to put down 12 to 15 to sometimes$20 for a hardcover book, it's gotta be, there's gotta be some weight there and substance.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think you want to see um not only just the theme woven throughout it, but how they connect the dots for me because and people can.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: Um some are really great at producing the five, six hundred word posts really well, really thoughtful, incredible, but trying to just like string them all together.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't think I mean I think you can have a really great blog post and from that you realize that's resonating with the people and it births an idea, but you have to have enough stories and history to back up that one thought, you know, that makes, you know, I don't know what a 40,000, 60,000 word book, which is a lot.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Which is a lot.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, one person we worked with um just recently that I know you has been on your um podcast was Kristen Shell and her book, The Turquoise Table.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: I have one right here.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: She's awesome, but she is someone who knew going in what she wanted her book to be.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And so her book is full color throughout with recipes and checklists and quizzes, and so it's it's it is substantive, a substance, a substantive, uh what I'm saying.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: A substantive book, but yet it's not as weighty as other books, but it is perfect.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And so when you pick it up, you're like, this is gorgeous and beautiful, but it does feel a little lighter because the subject is so much lighter.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's about a simple, humble turquoise picnic table.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: So that's just very different.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and we have gotten so much feedback.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, even just a good friend down the street.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: She she had just like, you know, kind of moved back to city that she had lived in before and was trying to figure out reconnecting but a new neighborhood and you know, just a new stage of life with her kids too.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: And so um, but she she has uh told me several times how much that book has meant to her and minister to her to just because we've overcomplicated our society and you know, interest and all that sort of stuff, which is great.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: Not slamming any of it, but we've overcomplicated and made made hospitality the same thing, a boredomsome thing.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: And Kristen just spells it out like, Yeah, just do it with leaves and bugs around you on the table and a pitcher of water, and it just yeah, I love it.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: It's it's really great.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: We we haven't gotten tired of talking about it.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh you and me both, and I just think it's so amazing to say just if you do it outside, it makes it much more approachable where people would be like, I don't think I'm coming in your house.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: That feels like a commitment, but oh, sit down at your picnic table, I'll do that.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's worked really well.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to ask because you you said something about um, I don't know, was it publishers or literary agents?
19:22
SPEAKER_01: Are they the ones who approach you sometimes even before the person has put a proposal together?
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, do you help with the proposal process or what is that?
19:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, just a couple of things.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: I I do not help with the proposal process process.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: For most of the large publishers that we work with, they get their new books directly from agents.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: So if if someone were trying to publish for the very first time, I would be like, network with agents.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: And there are many ways to do that through writers' conferences, but but that's but most of them are using, most of the publishers are using agents to kind of weed out.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: And so that agent should be the one to really help the person craft a good proposal and um help them kind of take whatever their germ of an idea to the next level.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: That's what an agent should do, and then have those relationships to kind of grease the wheels to get the person introduced to the right publisher.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Now, how many how many authors do you usually take on a year?
20:17
SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Every year is different, and every year has a different rhythm.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: So uh between Pamela, my business partner and I, we're usually looking at about 10 to 20 books that we're doing.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: But sometimes we have long-term um uh long-term um monthly clients that we work with.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: So, like one right now is I'm helping with a Bible launch, a whole new translation.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: So it's the Christian Standard Bible.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: And so I've been able to work on all the different flavors of Bible that are coming out from BH publishing.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: So I got to work on She Reads Truth Bible, gorgeous.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, I bet that's gonna be good.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: This is already out.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: Go get them.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: They're beautiful.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: So, and it's it's just it's it's just a thoughtfully designed, really beautifully integrity of the word of God and a high view of scripture, but then just gorgeous designs.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: So she reads truth Bible, but then I'm also working on um the Spurgeon Study Bible.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I would have thought.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then an apologetic study Bible, one for adults and one for teens.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: So that so those are all the different study Bibles that are coming out from BH this year, and I'm working on all the publicity for all of these different Bibles de jour.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: So one's a disciple makers study bible with Robbie Gallaty, a pastor in Nashville area that I'm not I was not familiar with beforehand.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Excellent resource.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: If you're big into making disciples, it would be such a great study Bible with helps and how you would could read the Bible through on with someone who is brand new to Bible literacy.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: It's just It's a great, it's a great study Bible.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: So that's awesome.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: But all these different issues.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there can't be possibly another Bible out there.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: There's still more.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: It's awesome.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: And the translation is really terrific because it's like this, it's very much the integrity of the original, um, of the original manuscripts and the original language and the intent of the original writers of the Bible, but it's a little bit more readable and easier to memorize.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: So yes, you know, memorizing the ESV version can sometimes be a little clunky.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Very, yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: You pick up a CSB and you'll be like, oh, that's just great.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: This is just this this makes this more sense to me, and I can memorize a little bit easier.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: So digest it and all of that.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so one of the things um I wanted to see if we could kind of spell out because I think we have lost a little bit of the value of the book, especially, I mean, not to slam candle, electronic versions.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: Um we just because there's a plethora too, and you you talked about our market being so saturated with the book and the blogging sphere.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: So I I just I wanted to remind our you know, my friends, the listeners, uh, the kind of the like the intricate process, the multi-layered, multi- you know, person process that it takes to get a actual book out to the public.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: Um just to you know, just to realize, oh yeah, when I'm holding a book in my hand, I paid$10 to$20 for it was worth every penny because of or if I got a good deal, man, I practically stole this one.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: So tell us, enlighten us all the process.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, most books are take about a year, a year and a half to get from acquisition from a publisher to actually publishing.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: Now, sometimes that process can be sped up, but it usually means the book hadn't quite cooked enough.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: In my humble opinion.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: But it usually takes about a year for someone to kind of come up with a germ of the idea, get the agent, and then the agent to pitch it to the publisher, then it's usually six to nine months in advance because the publisher will then have to get the get the book in in its final manuscript form, which is so much fun to look at these um manuscripts and arcs and you know to see the book as it goes through the process.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: And so they'll have to get it in-house and it'll have to be edited and really, you know, sometimes they have to have someone we call as a book doctor to come through and just really resuscitate a book that might have been on its last leg, but they yeah, but they they have these people that will come in and edit and really help the author get to put a shine on the project.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's usually several months in.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, the marketing and um the marketing people are coming up with the back cover copy and the copy that you would see on um online, and they're putting it up on all the different sales channel, and then they're doing what I call the best advertisement for the book, and that's the cover.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: So years ago, we would we would get sample covers in when I was actually in-house, and we would paste them all up on the wall to see what it would look like in an end end cap, which would be like that end of a at a bookstore of all like 20 books all face out, what it would look like.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Now we get books and we'll shrink it down to about an inch inch wide so we could see what it would look like on somebody's phone.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: And and so that now they're really thinking about that what will a book look like in a teeny tiny mobile platform.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so they spend lots of time, lots of money, lots of effort in in coming up with the best cover for a book because they know that's the best advertisement that they have for a book.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: And then there'll be a team of people who'll come help come up with a subtitle.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: Like I love Sarah Hagerty's subtitle because it's a promise.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: So her book is called Unseen, but the promise is the gift of being hidden in a world that loves to be noticed.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Great subtitle.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: You know what the book will happen, what will you get by reading this book.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: And so there'll be a team of people who work on that.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: And then about that point, once the manuscript's in and the jacket is done, is when they'll look to say, okay, what's going to be our publicity and marketing plan?
26:22
SPEAKER_00: And that's where I usually step in.
26:24
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: And so I will help then and kind of come up with a proposal and you know, but and so that's still a good six months before the book releases in a perfect world.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: And then we start talking to media at least three months before a book is out and start sending out the manuscripts and getting that out to long lead publications.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, if I'm working with good housekeeping, I need to get something to them at least four months in advance.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: So if it's a if it's a book that's releasing in Janu in May, I have got to back that up by four months so they can have that manuscript and have the cover and have the bio and all of the the information on the author and the book for them to even consider if they're going to cover it.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: So and the bigger the magazine, usually the longer the lead time is.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: They're probably have a long list of people who want to be put on their pages and all of that.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: Now, do you have a lot of relate standing relationships with these that kind of help you with the fact that you've been in the business for so long and they know that when you are pitching them something, it's worth taking note because Janna wouldn't just endorse anybody or be working with anybody.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, we have laughed.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: Life's too short to promote a bad book.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: That's one of our core values.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: And and so when I come in to an uh a person, whether it's USA Today or Christianity Today, and say, this is a great book for these reasons, and this is unique in why we, MMPR, are taking this on and why you need to cover it.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: I've done the research on the outlet, I've done my research on the author, and then they know with because I've been working with so many of these people for so long, they know I'm not going to present to them something that's that's that's less than a good fit.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Now often I will do the yeah, I'll I will do, I'll do the, okay, I wasn't 100% for sure that this was a great fit for you, X, Y, and Z outlet, but I thought it might be because of these three reasons.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Am I crazy?
28:28
SPEAKER_00: And lots of times they'll tell me, Oh, you are crazy, it's not a good fit.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: And and sometimes they'll go, Oh, I hadn't thought about it.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: I completely dismissed that out of hand.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: But I think I'd be interested in that.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that's just kind of fun.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so now that too, to kind of um just make sure we retrace the steps that a book goes through.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: So you, the publicist, help get the word out.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: And then kind of from there, I mean, the publishers gotta get it in bookstores.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Amazon, we all, you know, a lot of us end up buying our books off of that and other online retailers.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: Um it doesn't just your job doesn't really even just stop when the book releases, the release date, because like Sarah's book released back in August, the end of August, but we're into October and you're still working hard on it.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: So how what is that that process usually look for a book launch?
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Depending on if it's a book that's more skewed for the general market versus the Christian market.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Christian market, we have a little bit longer, but usually Christian retailers and outlets will give something two to three, even four months.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: And they also know that the the fall and into December is a great time people are giving Christian books for Christmas gifts.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: So they kind of they kind of let a book have a little bit longer life.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: But like Target, they'll they'll keep a book in their stores for two weeks.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't move, yeah, they return it.
29:55
unknown: I noticed that.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Books, books are the only consumer good that I know of that is a hundred percent returnable.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: And that's back when books and paper were so expensive to print, and so the publisher wanted it back.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's now become just industry standard.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: So you can return a book if you're a retailer fully, as long as the cover's not destroyed.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, even then, sometimes they'll take it with the cover destroyed.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: So there's a there's a whole secondary market of remainders.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: So if you're in like Barnes and Noble and you're like, I see these books that are two years old and they're$1.99, they're a remainder book that weren't sold the first time that the publisher sent back, and then they were able to resell it at a great price to Barnes and Noble or whomever.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: So um, so but the the general market outlets only give somebody now about four or five weeks for the book to sell.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, so and if it doesn't sell, they send it back.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's been great to know.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: I know it's caused a few people hassle and headache, but as we know, Sarah's book has sold out um in several places there for a while.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: So that was good.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I felt like that was a good sign, but now I even know more of why it's good.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna be returned.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: People want her book out there.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: And what's so interesting now, they're asking authors to do launch teams.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: You guys, you guys know about this.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: So two years ago, that was even just as short as two years ago, that was more an exception for really high profile, like what I would call A-list campaigns.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: They would do a launch.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: And now it has become the it's it everybody's doing a launch team, and everyone has free giveaways that they get if you order their book early.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: And it is it is absolutely becoming the standard for most every book publishing, especially at a couple different publishers.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: If they're just like we have a launch team, you got to come up with the the the items that you're gonna give away to people who buy it first, and all of that is on the author to do.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: That is not that the publisher is doing.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: No, it's just on the author.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: It's just on the author.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: I will come alongside and try to help promote that through media, and so that will maybe if we'll place a review or get an op-ed somewhere, then have that at the end, but join the launch team.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: And but it is really all on the author, and that is so new.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: The the pressure on an author, so you not only have to write really well, but you have to be an excellent marketer, and you have to be someone who is continually self-promoting, and you're supposed to be a speaking all the time.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and who really is good at all of that?
32:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, and then not face extreme burnout or a lifestyle that you can't sustain.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: It is really it, I don't know, like it's been a very eye-opening experience being part of it.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: It is all platform, and this is the expectation, and I'll go do that.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: And you're seeing more and more people who kind of backdoor a book.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not knocking this person at all, but the Chewbacca mom, do you remember her?
33:02
SPEAKER_00: That's hilarious.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's absolutely hilarious.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, she has a book out.
33:06
unknown: Really?
33:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, so she she didn't start off with going, Oh, I want a platform and a book, and but she got she was like lightning in a bottle.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Social media just made her just a star overnight.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: And so then a publisher approached her and an agent approached her, and so she's now she's got a book.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: That's hilarious, but she's got all this, so she's got the website.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I know.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: I I think it's about joy, you know, finding joy in your everyday life.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it yeah, but isn't that interesting?
33:34
SPEAKER_01: You have the platform and then it's like, okay, let's get a book out of this.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: That is interesting because I I do see that more and more.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Like if they get that overnight success, the 15 minutes of fame, then oh, I'm but I can understand why then a publisher and a literary agent are gonna go after that because you do have a lot of people with really great stuff to write and to share.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: But the platform building process for most people is totally daunting and really difficult.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: So and there are a lot of people out there that have a you know, join our group for$29 a month and we'll teach you how to build your platform.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: And I just I have no idea whether that's good money spent or not, but it is all on the onus of the author, right?
34:20
SPEAKER_00: And uh that's a lot.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: It is not in the Christian world too.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Jesus follower, be humble, but build your platform class quick.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Also, it's the position for sure.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I'm a I'm somebody I enjoy theology and I'm a pastor's wife.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's interesting that I think women now are getting more of their theological background and their theological education from people they would know virtually through podcasts, through blogs, rather than sitting under the teaching of someone they know at their church or going to a traditional Bible study like Bible study fellowship.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: So I just think that's very interesting and could be a, you know, could be concerning because some people out there with great followings don't have the best theology.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I that is actually, I I think that just a from talking from a Christian culture standpoint and it is the dilemma of the church at large.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Um sort of have to compete with that um to get the truth, the biblically sound truth.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I like things like um she reads truth and all of that sort of stuff.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: I would love to have them on our podcast because I think what they're doing is um fantastic and making it very beautiful and appealing to m you know women.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Um but they're the word of God and that's what they're teaching, and they're exploring that verse by verse and you know, chapter by chapter.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: So well, you know, there were so many traditional roles that women could not be in in the tr in the traditional church.
35:50
unknown: Right.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's a I think it's a wonderful thing that women like um Rachel and Amanda at She Reads Truth have brought together and said, we're going to hold up scripture and then we're gonna make it accessible so that anybody can come in through the app or the website or through our their beautiful printed material and see the beauty of scripture.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's one of those things I think that's fascinating.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: And I love that these people are being innovative and but then also have a lot of integrity when they hold up um the theology that they're trying to impart.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's both a wonderful opportunity and then also, ooh, a huge responsibility.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah, exactly.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: I just think of so much about how you know not many of you should be teachers because the weight of that is, you know, a huge responsibility.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: And I'm totally paraphrase paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it is that you cannot take that role lightly.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Whatever you're doing on social media, that you're if you're representing the gospel in any way, do not take that role lightly.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, because and and we've worked with other authors that have like almost the nil social media presence that were able to do really great.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: We helped launch um Francis Chan's books, Crazy Love, and that was one that just just took off and nobody expected it to be like that.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I didn't know I love that book.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: That was great.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good book, and he is but he has absolutely no social media profile, and he doesn't he wants it that way.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he really I mean he left his church because he felt like the church was becoming the Francis Chan show, so which you've got to respect that.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it it's just so interesting.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: It is it is it's such an interesting time to be in publishing.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: And so I I just I love to kind of sit back and go, Lord, what are you doing?
37:33
SPEAKER_01: This is great.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think what how fascinating for you to get to watch from your view and and then also take those on because there is that delicate balance of um you know, you you being faithful with content and teaching and you know, whatever it is, but but then letting the Lord do it and not striving in it.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: And uh we were just talking, I was just talking to someone who uh is in the songwriting um music business and all of that, and just you know, kind of that tension of am I doing um this in a way that is causing me to strive and it therefore takes me away from the creative process, or am I doing it as an actual overflow of my life and just like you know, make as as easy as possible and uh it is a true tension and I I'm always drawn to the authors that that know they have a message that is a gift from God and that they need need our assistance to help get that message out, that they feel like God has laid this on my heart and I need to get this out.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: And I loved to partner with them.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: Now, the person who wants to be famous, yeah, they just they need to find another publicist because that's not that's not our gig, that's not my gym.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: And and that's that's fine.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: There that's a great goal for somebody to have, but that's not what we do.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's just that's yeah, yeah.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Now, um, we talked about real briefly uh self-publishing, um, what used to be vanity publishing, and I know a lot of even big house uh publishing companies maybe have a department that focuses on the self-publishing.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: Do you work with authors who self-publish, or what does that look like if you know an author who's self-publishing and wants to have help figuring out how to get their word out?
39:19
SPEAKER_00: We have not worked with a self-publisher just because we are such a small house.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: When you hire McClure and Munsinger, you get McClure and Munsinger.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: We're not a huge organization with a lot of employees.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: So that's been a great way for us to weed out projects that come through just for us, but that doesn't that doesn't denigrate self-publishing at all.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: There are many other agencies out there that do work with self-published authors that are excellent that I would refer people to in a heartbeat.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: And so it just it just it was just our decision.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, between my business partner and I, we have six kids.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: And so we're just like, you know, and we just we we we gotta do just what we can do.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: And um so yeah, so that was an easy way for us to say, no, we don't work with self-published authors.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: A long time ago, probably even as short as five, five to seven years ago, many media outlets would say, Oh, we're not going to interview that person or review the book because it's self-published.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: And now that is not true at all.
40:17
SPEAKER_03: Right.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: People they'll talk to anybody because you they know you can get the book on Amazon.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: You can get the book so many places.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: So that that is no longer a stumbling block for people for wanting to get media, which that was even as short as five years ago.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a lot of content, it's gonna people are gonna want to share it if they've stumbled across it and they read it and they're like, Oh yeah, this is good, and there's no reason why.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: And I know there's been I I mean, I've I have a friend um who did self-publish uh an amazing I I guess it's more of a memoir, not about her life, but her brother's life.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: And she recently um and she was originally turned down by a literary agent just because she said, I think you can self-publish this, it's a good enough, you know, content.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: And a couple years later now she's looking at someone who wants to buy the rights and make a movie out of it.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I just think yeah, I know it's one of those extraordinary stories that doesn't happen for everyone, but if it's a really great story and really good content, then you know, and you do it thoughtfully and not just throw it out there, then it can be a message that is shared, you know, on a large scale, even with, you know, just the simple publishing at the beginning that you might have to put out some money for.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: The Shaq was self-published.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: He did pretty well.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: So it all turned out okay.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: And there are quite a few publishers that will kind of shop through the self-published books.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: They'll get the self-published books and see, oh yeah, we could we could take that and bring it up to the next level.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: So there are, I've known of several instances with people first self-published their book and then it was bought by someone who was in a traditional publisher.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think too is that we in our culture, the way we elevate the published word, um, which we have to do cautiously because we're in an era with there's so much technically published content by being online and everything like that, it doesn't make it it doesn't give it authority and you know, trueness and equality exactly.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: But um we we make it this like an end-all point when I don't think you know, not every message like that's the end-all of it.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I even think about you know, maybe this is just a it just transposes into a really good teaching, or we talked about the really good blog post, or maybe it's an online course to teach people a you know a certain way of living or technique, or I don't know.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: There's just so many ways now that people have available to them that um you know that just because you have something really great to get out, the Lord has probably given that to you.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to, you know, be the end all with the book for sure, even though it's fun for us to read it in that way.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: I I I couldn't agree more, and I think that as attention spans go down, that shorter books and more visual books.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: I know that for years people would kind of poo-poo um comic books, graphic novels.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, we got to do the publicity on the action Bible, which your kiddos probably know that.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: And it's a wonderful.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: So the man who did that was is one of the most world-renowned cartoonists for the the DC comics.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he is like award-winning, but he said the best thing he's done, the thing that brings him such joy is that he got to illustrate the action Bible, and you know, because he's this lovely Christian man who just loves Jesus.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I cannot believe I got to do this.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: This is the last thing I ever get to color.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: But you know, I have a great Bible, and they have sold a lot of it.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: And it is a terrific resource for someone who might be going, I can't do the whole Bible.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's too much.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: How about a comic book?
43:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I don't know if you know, but at Declare, um Coke Publishing.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: was there and they were representing um one of their authors who I'm I'm not gonna remember right at this moment, but they had the action bible there and they had kind of like this special two pack two pack.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: But I was talking to one of the women who I'm trying to remember what her role was.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: I think she was the marketing director one of the marketing directors there at Co-Publishing and because I'm from Colorado Springs or live there for 11 years, you know we were talking about Colorado and make that contact.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: But she's like if you do not have this book for your kids, you need to buy it right now.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: So and I I had a weight issue as far as flying back home so I couldn't buy it right then but it's on the list to buy for Christmas because I I looked through and I was like oh yeah this would be perfect.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: I I'll have to look around my office see if I have another copy.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: I know I've got the New Testament somewhere so I may have to send it to you.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I'd love that I loved getting turquoise table in the mail that was just like made like such a happy day and it was so beautiful like you said I mean just to point to that again it was such a beautiful feast for the eyes I said because it really was.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: And Kristen knew I mean she even has told me she could have gone with a different publisher that was going to do a traditional book you know black and white interior but she said I knew this had to be different.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: So she went with a a publisher where you know maybe she didn't make quite as much as much money as she could have that the advance wasn't the same but she knew that the end product would be pitch perfect.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: And so that's where I go there's so many different options for authors these days that you can you can kind of say okay this is what I would like to do.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I love it.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the thing is dream you know dream with it.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: Kristen was bold enough to dream with because it's not what she intended from the beginning of her purchase of the turquoise table.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: It just evolved there and along the way she you know she was dreaming with the Lord really is what it was and you know to get I think where she has gotten now with it.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: And and I would think that Sarah would say the same thing that she thought her blog that she started for the adoption and fertility was just for her to kind of process and think through but then now it's got all of this reach I can't tell you how many people go I would have never dreamt this I would say that about my job.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I would have never dreamt that I could have got paid to read and talk about good books.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Hey hey that's awesome that's a job win.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: Totally and so it's it's really like to me I'm like I would have never thought I could have done this from home and have three kids and have a husband who's in the ministry so we can travel wherever he gets his call.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean I I could do my job from anywhere.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's a that's a huge blessing.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: So I I love it when authors say gosh I would have never thought that this would have happened but look what the Lord has done.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I love that.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Well how about for you?
46:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean being a pastor's wife I actually grew up as a pastor's kid.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: I know you have a lot of stories.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: So have you ever thought about writing a book I mean you've been through all the nitty gritty is that like oh no way no thank you.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: You know I I oh tease that my business partner she is Pamela is the most amazing writer like I can write a two-page press release and make it sound okay and then I'll give it to her and she'll edit it and I'll be like oh this is gorgeous.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: I always say that she should write a book.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't really feel like I have anything to say which that makes me feel very shallow.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: But I just I can't imagine what I would talk about.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: I think it's just a good reminder that if you think you have a book in your heart then not everybody does.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's easy to when you start tiptoeing in that you know the water you're like oh everyone you know wants to write a book or has a book in them but I don't think that's the case.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: And but maybe you can play a a role too like you do where you get you love books, you love the literature and you get to play a special piece of getting the word out I I love that you are a pastor's kid and you still love the Lord that just makes me happy I do.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: There was a few uh maybe scary moments along the way no I'm grateful God's grace right for all of us I do I feel all the time I look back I'm like wow if it wasn't but God you know like just his his mercies and um just the grace along the way that he continued to draw me in and thankfully I said yes.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: So I am so I'm so with you I never would have thought I would been a pastor's wife like last thing I wanted to do and I got the bait and switch my husband was a a corporate guy when I married him and then he decided to go to seminary so I was like really wait a minute you're gonna is that what I signed up for really but but to how God has used that and how it has really suited us after I guess after 26 years of marriage we're doing okay.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: So yeah that's awesome congratulations that is really doing well that's awesome.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay well how about um any some brags about some books that are coming out here soon.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: I know you've loved working with Kristen you've loved working with Sarah and they're that's still an ongoing process but for you what are you looking at for the end of the year and then into 2018 well 2017 was kind of a a hard year because an author that I worked with over his three books at 33 years old passed away from cancer.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: His name is Nabil Kureshi oh yeah I did yeah you worked with him I'm so sorry and oh I just he is one of my favorite authors he was not okay brilliant an expert in must in Islam faith in Christianity and in Judaism like brilliant guy but then also so funny and so dear and so kind and so much fun.
49:40
SPEAKER_00: So that that to me was just like I I feel like I just kind of carry that weight going Lord I know he had there's no more tears no more cancer no more suffering for sweet Nabeel but man I wish that he could have published more books.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: So yeah 2007's been a tough one and then I just so so that's that's been kind of consuming for me was Nabeel and help helping any way I could and just honoring his life and legacy and intellect and so that was a that was a big one.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: And then I just released helped release um Max Lakato's Anxious for nothing.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow good book good book you know there's a there's a lot of anxiety in the world and and it just I felt that God just gave him that message for just this right time.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's been one that I've really enjoyed.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: And then we're coming around it it may feel like he's overpublished but he preaches through every book first to his church at in San Antonio before he uh writes it.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: And so I've got a new book with Max Lakato that will be coming out in 2018 called Unshakable Hope.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh it's it's very good.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: It's the key verses that he comes back to over and over again in his life and they're building a whole like church campaign so we'll have curriculum for itty biddies all the way up through you know ancient ancients and everybody in between and it's just it's a great campaign.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing that I'm really working a lot on right now is unshakable hope.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: And so um we've had a long-term relationship with Max and it is really one of my deepest privileges to partner with him.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: So it's been a long time that we've worked together and I'm just so very grateful.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: He and his team are just the gold standard to me for publishing and doing things with integrity.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: So I'm really looking forward to that in 2018.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: And then we've got another Lee Strobel book that we're working on.
51:37
SPEAKER_00: I just love I love Lee Strobel.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: He is the nicest guy you know some people Jenna well it I feel a little obnoxious of name dropping but you know it's just it's really just what comes through our door and we're like oh I I click on that oh yeah I'd love to do this.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: So so yeah those are two that I know that are coming around the mountain I love Karen I feel like you give validity to like they really are that nice and they're that great and that worthwhile reading because knowing you and your standard I think that's great.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: Well we joke the publicist really knows the inside story.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: You would you would like just seeing how you have to uh just even even the responses from the people that you use as the license in a way to like put on their programs or podcasts or in you know like their responses are kind of fascinating to read I'm like oh oh I don't know how I feel about that response yeah it's gotta be really interesting you see a lot of the inside for sure I I really do I've seen it all so I will say though the the very first time in all these years in 18 nine yeah 18 years of doing PR the first author that has ever sent me something on the release of their book is Sarah Hagerty.
52:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh that's awesome she's she sent us cookies oh yeah oh yeah we all just went bananas yeah first time first time that I've ever had an author do that so I was like I love you forever you sent me food she's great she is a genuine gift giver like she can't help herself she just does that is her love language I love it that's great I can't wait to like elbow her and be like I heard you made Janna's year so or you know 18 years in the business so that's first ever yeah it was really fun so I'm trying to think what else is coming up for 2018.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: We've got a lot but um it just should be a good year so I'm I'm really looking forward to it.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: We I had a whole bunch of releases this summer so I've kind of got a a a breather that I'm doing for um for like the next two months that I just kind of I get to breathe for a little bit so I'm I'm very grateful for that.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: So it's now kind of doing the wrap up for old campaigns and then going to the next big campaigns for 2018.
53:57
SPEAKER_01: So squeezing in the holidays in there too.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Yes squeezing in the holidays in there.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: So that's awesome.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: Well Jana I hope that you and I continue um to get to chat here and there and maybe um you can send any author our way anytime uh for sure.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: So um and any books too when you want to but um you know the door is always open here because you're just lovely and um we think you're really great.
54:23
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: Well you're kind I've it's so weird to be on this side of the interview.
54:27
SPEAKER_00: So but talking about books I can do that all day.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah well I think it's about time when you said that you hadn't ever done it or you know no one had approached you I thought well my goodness they are missing out because this is I think people really want to know and people need to know what goes behind it.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: I just think some of that value needs to be put back in there of like hey listen what you're paying for is worth it we think so we think so absolutely y'all have a great day thanks for having me on this was really fun yes Diana thank you so much have a great rest of the day okay all right you too blessings I mean did you have any idea how much it takes to get a book on the shelves honestly I used a squirm to pay over for$10 for a book.
55:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm sort of cheap and thrifty sometimes but now I realize I'm practically getting it for free when I pay that amount.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: So now being more involved in the publishing world I have had a change of perspective on what I get for my money in a book and I see them as even more valuable gifts to give to good friends and I am definitely certain to put on my book list.
55:39
SPEAKER_01: So don't forget to print off the simply wholehearted book list.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: I recommend each book that I put on there I've read them myself and you can listen to the episode corresponding to the books as I've included that on the list as well.
55:53
SPEAKER_01: So remember I had an apartment announcement well guess what?
55:57
SPEAKER_01: It's official I am going to get certified to become an Aneagram life coach.
56:02
SPEAKER_01: Truly I am nervous but I'm thrilled and excited.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: Both Ashley and I geeked out over the information we learned from Beth McCord and we knew we would want to take her courses.
56:12
SPEAKER_01: But mostly we really love the idea of helping others around us to discover to live their best whole lives and we know that the Annie Graham journey helps you do just that.
56:24
SPEAKER_01: So obviously it's why we do this podcast but I also think this course will equip me to take me to the next level I'll be sharing my journey with you along the way some of what I learn and also what I'll be offering along the way.
56:38
SPEAKER_01: More bonus content for our podcast VIPs personal Anneagram coaching is going to be something we begin to offer and I'm guessing I'll probably create a group materials specifically for moms because as some of you know the Enneagram has served to really help me with my parenting so be sure and check out some of the beginning courses and free materials Beth offers right now at YourAneagram Coach on all the socials.
57:05
SPEAKER_01: So until next week we hope you'll be joining us as we discover more ways to live a simply wholehearted life unplugged purposeful and intentional.