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BPS 375: Directing Al Pacino in an Indie Film with Johnny Martin · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
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Episode number three seventy five. It's not about selling, it's about creating
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Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof
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to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome,
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Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble
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professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com. Enjoy today's episode with
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guest host Dave Bullis. My next guest is a filmmaker in Stuntman. He
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began his career in twenty fourteen just directing with his debut of the horror film
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Delirium, which is actually coming out the beginning of next year, by the
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way, which is January twenty eighteen. He went went under to direct two
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other films, Vengeance a Love Story starring Nicholas Cage and Don Johnson, and
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Hangman, which is the film'm going to talk about today A lot about Today
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starring Al Pacino, Carl Urban and Britney Snow. We also talk a lot
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about doing stunts because he was in a really cool movie called Killer Clouds Matter
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Space with guests Johnny Martin and I really appreciate that too. You know,
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we have a mutual friend and mister Keyho. And you know, is it
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just me, Johnny, or does Michael Keho know everybody? Michael Keyo not
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only knows her, he knows people he doesn't even know yet. So yeah,
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it's it's always seems like Mike always knows somebody else. He's always,
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you know, I steely him talking to somebody else or or just you know,
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mentioning somebody else. I'm like, my god, this man must not
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sleep. He must just he must just either either call or go to networking
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parties or just you know, he has his finger on the button like he
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he has it all working together. Uh. Well, well, I've known
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him for a long long time, probably over eighteen twenty years, and back
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then, you know, he always talked about directing and doing all these movies.
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I thought, well, he's craft Service really and I was always told
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Today's Craft Serves is Tomorrow's director. And sure enough, this man pulled it
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off. He's amazing. Yeah, I mean he definitely did. And you
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know, and speaking about you know, Today's Craft Services Tomorrow's director, you
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know, there's a lot of ways to get into the film industry. I
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mean, you know, everyone I've had on here as a unique story.
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So I wanted to ask Johnny, how did you break into the film industry.
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Well, it's such a great story and I'm very proud of it.
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And basically, when I was seven years old, I used to go to
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car washes all the time because when I grew up it was like the seventies
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and they always had the hot rots coming into the car washes, and I
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was a huge car fan. So one day Els in his car pulls up
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with a trailer behind it with a smashup car, and this guy steps out
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and he looked like Burt Reynolds coming out of his car. He this was
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an amazing man. I had to ride ride my bike up to him and
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ask him, you know what have you know when I'm of your car,
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and he goes, this is a car. Her name's Eleanor. He goes,
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Eleanor meet and he asked by my name and I told him. He
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goes, yeah, Eleanor is a star of my movie called Gone in sixty
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Seconds. And I'm the director, producer, stuntman, actor, writer,
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and I'm out there delivering my movie to all the theaters and self distribute this
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film. And I said, I don't understand that. So we stap for
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like two hours and he explained everything to me. At the end of the
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conversation, I said, I want to do what you do, and he
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said, well, look, if you go home and study and train,
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you could come see me when you're eighteen and I will help you out.
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So sure enough, that day I went home and I started training. I
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started training out to be a stuntman, an act I took acting classes,
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and when I turned eighteen, sure enough I got in that car. I
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went to LA called my mom to tell her I was. I was there
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and she said, honey, I got bad news for you. HB.
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HALICKI. He died today doing the movie going on sixty Seconds, Part two,
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and so I went there. I was left alone, not knowing what
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to do. So I worked my butt off, and ten years later I
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got asked to stunt coordinate and design all the actions for an upcoming Jerry Brook
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Hunter and we were starting to get out of that part of in my life
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and started only direct and produced. And I said, what's the name of
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the movie and they said, well, it's gone in sixty seconds, And
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so it was just this amazing turnaround. It was like HB. Was still
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taking care of me, and I ended up winning an award for Best Coordination
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of the Year. So it was really a thrill. You know that.
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That's absolutely amazing. That's absolutely amazing, Johnny, where you got to actually
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be a part of the movie that you started with and uh yeah, you
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know that. That's amazing. And uh so, I mean you did a
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lot of different stunts and I looked at your IMDb and I there's one movie,
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Johnny, I have to ask about, and you did stunts for Killer
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Clowns from Outer Space. Oh my god. You know you understand. I
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did a Titanic, I've done the Matrices, I'd done the Terminators, I've
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done tons of huge wings. But the number one question everyone asked me you
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were in Killer Clowns. It's so funny. That little cult movie was one
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of my first films that I acted and did stunt and I played three of
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the clowns and I did everything on that show and it ended up becoming my
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most memorable movie. You know, I keep getting gifts from all over and
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autograph signed for that movie too. It's just crazy. Yeah, you know,
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one day I was I was at like a big loss. I don't
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know if you big losses kind of like this big box discount store and I
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was there and they have this, they have these they have a movie section
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and I found Killer Clowns there one day and I said, you know,
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I remember this movie as a kid. So I take it up to the
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register, right, and I'm checking out, and the girl scanning is,
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you know, scanning the DVD's I'm buying, and she stops on Killer Clowns
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and she goes, oh my god. She goes, I remember this movie.
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And she goes to she starts telling everyone around her. She goes,
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has you ever seen this movie? She goes, it is freaking awesome.
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She goes, it's about these clowns who coming from outer space and they and
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they're they're turning people into these cotton candy cocoons. And everyone now is like
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getting around her looking at this DVD case of Killer Clowns and they're like,
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oh my god, dude, these there more copies back there. Oh my
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god, this this looks awesome. And I'm like, yeah, it's this.
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It's this fun movie that that just came out of nowhere. And I
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remember seeing it as as a kid growing up, and I now and by
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the way, I have another copy. You can't see it because on a
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podcast, but I have a copy on my bookshelf. That's great. Well,
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I'm in talks with the Kyoto brothers to see if I could produce the
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part the part two of that, So it's kind of interesting and I think
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like part two would be absolutely awesome. I think movies, especially movies like
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that, I think now are are more prevalent than ever because I mean,
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I know, you know, I'm starting to get the superhero fatigue and I'm
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starting to you know what I mean, And I and I know people who
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work on those movies, and I and I want to support them. But
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at the same time, like you know, I am way more interested in
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seeing like a Coen Brothers movie, you know what I mean, or something
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like that where it's like this this fun movie, you know, or something
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even something like you know, uh, something else that has come out recently
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that that just blew me away was Three Billboards. Have you seen that yet?
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No? Oh, yeah, it's it's fantastic. But I'm sorr.
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I'm getting off tracked down, Johnny, but but but yeah, it's uh,
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you know, That's why I think movies like that, you know,
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it's just see it stays in that zeitgeist because it's such a fun movie.
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And you know you mentioned doing stunts for Titanic too. I promised, Johnny,
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I was gonna mention that too because I saw you, did you know,
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I saw Titanic on your IMDb and I said, you know, I'll
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ask about you know, Titanic and then then Killer Clowns. But I so
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so so, I mean, so, Johnny, just you know, as
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we talked about stunts and everything, you know, there's been like guys like
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Jason Statham who have mentioned that, you know, stunt guys should get their
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own category at the Academy Awards because you know, they do a lot of
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dangerous work and they do a lot of different you know, the car flips,
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the brick jumping through the glass, all that, all that stuff,
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you know, all that all that dangerous work. You know. So you
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know, as a stunt guy yourself, you know, what are you what
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are your thoughts about the stunt stunt guys getting their own category in the Academy
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Awards. Well, I agree and disagree with it. And the part I
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agree with is that, yeah, you know, the number one genre that
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makes the most money in the film industry is actually so it is it is
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all of us out there that at least what I was. But the other
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point of it too is that you know, you have to declare who is
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a filmmaker, and to me, to be nominated for a Kedemy Award,
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you have to be a true filmmaker. And there are a lot of some
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people that are not filmmakers. They are just guys like you, hit by
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cars and like to crash up and wreck things and all that. But then
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there's those great second in the directors and stub coins out there that know how
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to design amazing action that helps drive not only the story, but the characters
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as well. I mean, there's nothing better than seeing a great a great
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action that helps to tell you who this character truly is and what he's feeling
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without having to say it. And that's to me very rare to see,
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like the Bourne Identity movies, to me, I'm very impressed by because they
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know the action is really only twenty percent. The rest is all the acting
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of Matt Damon and you see what he's reacting to and so believable. We'll
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be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the
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show where then you jump into Fast and Furious, which I think is you
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know, amazing stunt work and all that, but it's and design is very
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great, but not My issue is that, you know, does it is
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there a character in that car or is it the car that's been the hero?
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And that's to me the point that if they do do this, they
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have to make it clear that it should go to a filmmaker, not because
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someone made five hundred million in the box office on a great action movie.
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Yeah. I see what you mean again, because you know sometimes in the
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in movies like Fast and Furious, you know, the sort of the car
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itself, the muscle car is the exotics, they're they're like the sort of
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center of attention and a lot of those action set pieces. Yeah, and
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that's not what the story is about. It's not about the car. It's
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about who's driving the car and and where they're going. Yeah, and you
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know that that'd be funny to actually like turn into something I transform as well
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as kind of like the same thing. You know. So as you took
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your career, Johnny, you know, as you got you know, to
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do more and more stunts, you started producing and you know, again as
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we were talking. You know, it's always interesting to see the trajectory of
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careers. So as you go from stunts to producing, how did you make
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that sort of transition from one of the other. Well, I mean,
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the whole reason why I got into stunts. I happen to be really good
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at it, so I was fortunate to stay in it for as long as
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I did, probably longer than I wanted to stay. But I wanted to
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learn from some of the top directors. Look better way of getting behind Tony
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Scott and James Cameron than to get on the set as the stutment and stay
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on for a few weeks instead of just trying to sneak on. So that
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was mainly my main main idea. Then when I started to watch it,
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I realized how much money is being overspent when people are just trying to spend
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money. And when you look at studio movies, you look at it where
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there're spending one hundred million dollars, Well, really, only fifty million got
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put in the movie. The rest are executive charges, studio charges and all
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that, so movies aren't really one hundred million. I'm like, well,
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why can't you make you know? And I started seeing the decline of video
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and blockbusters and all that, and I'm like, well, where is the
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recoupment can I come from? Well, we have to start making movies for
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less. And sure enough that's started happening. And so when I started the
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studying that I wanted to produce, I knew that I knew how to shoot
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action, and I knew how to do it quickly, and that was the
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most expensive part of making action movies is the action. So I went to
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Millennium Film Zobby Learner, and I told them, well, how much do
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you do your sci fi movies for? And he says one point eight million.
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I said, and you shoot it where? And he goes in Bulgaria.
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I said, well, what if I tell you I could shoot one
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of your sci fi movies the same style, same way, for three hundred
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thousand, and I'll shoot it in in la He said it's impossible, And
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so I had my actors Casper Vandean and Michael Rooker call up Bobby and say,
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I think he could do it. I really believe in him. And
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sure enough we have pulled it off for three hundred and ten thousand, and
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this movie became sci fi film in the year and then I did another one
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and I said, can I have the one point five and he said no,
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I'll give you seven hundred. He wanted to ask me, and sure
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enough I did that one for seven hundred and that became sci Fi movie the
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year of the following year, and then Obvious started giving me more and more
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films to produce after that, so it was more or less knowing and I
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through my career, I've always wanted to learn every department. I thought,
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learning from this man Hbolicky that I met when I was seven years old,
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the key to becoming a great filmmaker is to learn everyone's job. I learned
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how to do special effects. I learned how to do visual effects. I
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learned every single career. When I had a day off, I'd go spend
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it with some of my buddies that did another career than I did, and
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I tried to learn it so I could become the ultimate filmmaker. And that's
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where I thought producing would be very very good for me, and it's paid
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off very well for me as far as my career. I got to be
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the first company to travel to China and to co produce a movie with China
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Film Group about five years ago in twenty thirteen called Urban Games, and I
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got to show them how you could pull off a movie where they thought they
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needed eighteen million. I did it for seven and a half on. It
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worked out really well. They wanted me to stay there, and I just
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couldn't want to stay in China. I want to come back home and do
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some real movies. So well, if you did stay in China, just
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just sort of playing like a what if game, Johnny, if you did
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stay in China, do you think that that they would have just been coming
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up to you with like, you know, project of the project and just
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saying, hey, Johnny, could you you know, produce this film and
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produce this film in Beijing and then go to to to like you know,
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to to sess want to do this film? Yeah, I was asked to
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go to Canada, you know. In my movie we went to Soul,
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Korea and the Bate Beijing. And the problem I had with it it's similar
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to TV in China, where the producer isn't the filmmaker, it's really the
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director, and in TV it's the writer who is the producer. And so
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it became something to where I'm a creative producer and I'm not the kind of
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producer that just needs to push nump numbers around and get things done at certain
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price. I want to be a part of the filmmaking experience and to help
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scenes get better. And when I went to China, it was more that
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I had these ideas, but the director got to override me. Where in
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my film's here as a producer, I got to say what I wanted and
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felt that you needed to shoot this no matter what, and I got it
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done. And so that's why I really didn't want to stay in China for
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very much long, because I didn't want to just be a guy that did
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the numbers. I was in that I was built to make movies, not
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to just help create movies by money. Yeah, And I think that's very
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very virtuous of you, Johnny, because you realize you want to stay true
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to yourself. You know, you didn't want to just sit there, and
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you know you want to make your own movies. You don't want to make
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other people's movies exactly. So by the way, you know, I don't
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know if you do. You know Peter Marshall, uh name souths familiar.
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He's like a he does a lot of first a d work. He's worked
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a lot with John Wu but he actually was in China for a while doing
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different movies and stuff like that. But but yeah, I just I just
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wanted to ask if you knew him, just in case you two ever us
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pads. It very well might be that, do you know, because I've
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done a few job Mom movies. So yeah, and he's a he's a
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real good guy to it and so but yeah, if you if you don't
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though, if you don't know him, though, Johnny, let me know
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and I'll introduce you to you. Got it sounds great. So so so
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as you sort of you know, got better at producing, you you know,
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you're able to sort of, you know, do different things with money.
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You know, was your was your budget sort of rising incrementally or did
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you ever find yourself Johnny, Like somebody would say, oh no, look
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Johnny, we're only going to give you, you know, five hundred thousand
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or a million. And then when you make the and when you went to
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make that your second, third, and fourth, they were there, you
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know, they just kept it at that same point where it was like,
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Johnny, we're only going to give you fifty million or five hundred thousand or
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a million or do they what do they allow you to or did you were
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able to get it to go up incrementally? Well? After I do those
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two two sci fi movies, that's when asked me to do a third,
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and I said, no, I want to step up to a budget where
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I could actually make a film that I believe in, not just have to
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put it together and do whatever I could for the money. So you know,
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immediately there I jumped up to the five to seven million dollar range and
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I did three or four Cuba Gooding junior movies that he started. It was
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just right when Wesley Snipes went to jail and Cuba was right there to fill
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in for the next great action hero. Where I was hoping to try to
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get these dramas and rewrite them into you know, action pieces, but not
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action movies where you know it would help Cuba because I'm a real big fan
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of Cuba Goodding and I just wanted to see him just raise his career up
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by not being sold out as an action star, but being an action quality
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actor. And so that's what I started to do, and I found a
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niche in that spot, and that's where I realized that if you have like
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two point one to two point five below the line. That's where most movies
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today are being made. Everyone gets caught up in numbers and they think that,
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you know, I got eleven million dollar budget. I guarantee that eleven
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million dollar budget still has a below the line to make the movie around two
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point one to two point nine. And you know, just because it,
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I've done movies for seven millions and nine millions, twelve million to thirteen million,
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and yet the below the line is still around three million or less.
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That doesn't change because you know, you know, today's movie is because there
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is no payoffs in VOD and Blockbuster, I mean, and excuse me.
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And Netflix isn't buying as much as as we thought they would, and China
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stop buying all together. You know, it really makes it hard for anyone
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to recoup. So I was lucky that I found that niche because right when
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I started really getting further and further into it, that's when I realized that
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all the movies have to be made for that, unless they're sequels or they're
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a Marvel comic. You know, all the rest of the movies are still
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being done at this level. And the problem is a lot of the studio
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guys don't know how to do movies at this price. You know, they
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don't know about sales. That's where Avi Learner taught me. You know what
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each country buys films for whatever actor is worth, and how much you have
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to make movies. His goal all along was always make a movie for what
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you could pre sell this movie, lower it by a million dollars, and
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then you can can make that movie for that and know that you always have
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a million dollar problems. And no matter what the movie is, you have
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to have a great producer. You have to fire out how to do that
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movie for the money that's going to make the company money. So that's what
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I learned. And so now basically I'm still doing the same. I mean,
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my movie's eleven million, but yet still below the lines are still under
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three. And that's a great, big advice. By the way, Johnny,
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I really like that that advice because you know just how it ties in
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as well, you know, just with the with just this podcast. You
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know, I've had filmmakers on who've done their first movie, their second movies
19:33
or third movies, and some of them have made a comedy as their first
19:37
movie. And one of the things that we talked about on here. They
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said, Dave, it's when whenever we go to like foreign sales agents or
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we go to do vod or to any of these like aggregators, like you
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know, you know there's tons of them out there, but if they go
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to any of them, they always say, well, who's in it?
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We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the
20:03
show, and they go, well, you know it's it's nobody. Well,
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they said, well, you can't really sell a comedy as your first
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movie with a lot of unknown actors and expect it to get a wide release.
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So they always said, you know, go out and make a horror
20:18
movie instead. What do you think about that advice? So Johnny, just
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to make a horror movie as your first movie. Well, I think that
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the advice that that person said is even worse than what we all thought today.
20:30
I mean, nowadays, you know, eighty percent of the movies that
20:33
are being made are being made by independent not studios. Studios just buy our
20:37
movies, throw their name on it, and now everyone thinks I got a
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Lionskate movie. It's like no, I did it through Patriot Pictures. And
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then they just bought it at the end for two point seven or two point
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eight, but now it looks like it was a lions Gate movie. So
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knowing that, yeah, I mean, we can't even sell movies. And
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since we're in the independent world, we're not fortunate to do movies without cast.
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I mean that we can't even sell it and get our domestic out of
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it. So we have to have a cast. If you try to make
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a movie without an actor and you think you got gold, well guess what's
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probably gonna end up sitting on a shelf, or it's going to be sold
21:07
to a distributor that will prove that you never made a dime when he made
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all the money. So you should never ever try to do a horror movies.
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It's very tricky. It's like a good example, is what happened to
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me, is that I need to show everyone I could direct. Everyone knew
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I could produce everyone, I could do action direct action, but they didn't
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know if I could direct a film with actors. So I went ahead and
21:27
wrote a movie about my friends that I grew up with that we used to
21:32
go to the scary house when we were kids, and we had this hell
21:34
gang, and I created the story around it, and I shot at the
21:38
original house that we used to sneak in at night, and I made it
21:41
sound footage because sound flootage was dead. Well, I started getting the news
21:45
from everyone that sound flootage was going to die sooner or there. So I
21:48
had to rush and get this movie into editing and post and clean it up
21:52
and get it ready. And by the time that I was ready to sell
21:55
it, I missed the window by about a month. Everyone said, found
21:57
footage is too many people did it, it's cheap to do, so,
22:00
you know what, We're done with it. So now they're done with it.
22:03
So what am I going to do with this movie now? Well,
22:06
I went back, I rewrote it, and I borrowed another fifty thousand,
22:08
and I changed it into a mix of found footage and real footage of a
22:12
real film. And now that movie's done very well for me. I was
22:17
very, very lucky. I did it with kid actors from Disney Channel and
22:21
all that, where you know, you can get them at scale and at
22:23
least they're they're they're not known names, but at least they have a resume
22:26
that you could at least put on a poster. And that's what I suggest
22:30
you're doing. You know, if worse comes worse and you can't afford an
22:33
actor or can't get an actor, you know, always turned to a TV
22:37
star because at least they got some kind of cloud to them. Yeah,
22:41
and with with TV being so prevalent nowadays, you know, there's a lot
22:45
more you know, TV stars out there because you know, on Netflix alone,
22:48
there's like what three hundred shows is the episodic shows now, but you
22:52
know, yeah, there's there's a lot of you know, Amazon, and
22:56
then you have your cable package and then you have your Netflix and and all
23:00
the other channels. You know, there's a lot of episode of content up
23:02
there now. Yeah. Well, and the problem with all this is that
23:07
ten years ago, Blockbuster would hold onto your movie forever. I mean here,
23:11
you can go in there and get a movie from twenty years ago.
23:14
Nowadays, where do you go other than the number one distributor in the world,
23:17
and that's Walmart. Walmart, believe it or not, is the number
23:19
one distribut because they hold onto your movies for years and years, and they
23:22
put in that fight dollar bucket. And if you could be thrown in that
23:25
fin dollar bucket, you're the luckiest producer in the world because that's where the
23:29
money is to be had, because they could keep it in that bucket for
23:32
three years, where Netflix is lucky to hold on. If you get into
23:34
Netflix could hold on your movie for only three months. Red Box you're lucky
23:37
to be in it for months. So there's nowhere that has a lasting way
23:45
of selling your movie other than Walmart right now. And that's a very good
23:48
point, Johnny. You know, I was one time I was actually at
23:52
a film producer sort of seminar, and they also talked about, you know
23:56
what the cost of shelf space is. So if you walked into a tall
24:00
get a Best Buy, a Walmart and you start looking around the movie section,
24:03
you know, each time the cover is horizontally versus vertically, you know
24:07
what I mean that the cover's facing out towards you and you can see it
24:11
versus if you just see the spine. You know, there's a huge cost
24:14
difference between those two because it's it's about shelf space. And you know,
24:17
they have the you know what eye level everyone goes to first they had they
24:21
were talking about all that stuff, and you know, now you now you
24:25
know with with Blockbuster gone, and you know, now it's just you know,
24:29
Netflix, and you know, like you said, Walmart, you know,
24:30
giving in that bin, now, that bin's a whole nother you know,
24:33
almost like another revenue cycle or another opportunity, you know what I mean.
24:37
And that's sort of and I know what you mean too about going to
24:41
that bin. I've seen tons and tons of movies that from friends of mine
24:42
that I've made movies, and I've seen them in there and they said,
24:45
you know, that was actually good because people do actually buy from those,
24:48
from those big barrels of movies. Oh oh oh yeah, it really is.
24:53
I mean, that's that's really that's the only place that people, you
24:56
know, are our film watchers, the real walkers go to that bucket because
25:00
they want to watch something new and they want something that they could buy three
25:04
of them instead of going to the theater and having to pay for one movie.
25:08
Yeah, and uh, you know, and and yeah and Jols Johnny,
25:11
just to ask sort of just to sort of reminisce, you know,
25:15
we talk about Blockbuster. I remember going there too, lot a lot,
25:18
and I wanted to ask, you know, do you think that the Blockbuster
25:21
in any way, shape or form is going to come back? Like where
25:23
you could actually just go to a store with with your friends and actually just
25:26
you know, actually rent physical movies, you know what. I wanted to
25:32
open up one so bad, but every time I do, I do the
25:36
research. And you know the problem is, you know, like my daughter's
25:37
right now, even though I'm in the bus this, I'll catch them watching
25:41
a movie that's in theaters here right now. Because everything's being pot fired and
25:45
everything's online. Everything's free now. I mean, you could really watch anything
25:48
you want at anytime for free. So why would you need to go out
25:52
when you could just just download it or get it online. And that's the
25:56
problem is, is that, you know, I used to love going to
25:59
the Blockbuster with my kids and us going through every movie. I mean,
26:03
that was fun. And now it's it's that here, that time's gone,
26:07
and it's really hurting families. And that's what movies are all about. Movies
26:11
are all about bringing families together and enjoying and experience a dream, you know,
26:17
And now it's just a matter of do they have time to watch one?
26:19
And that's where I really miss Blockbuster. And I think the film industry
26:25
is really hurting because it's gone. Yeah, it's uh, I know,
26:29
there's a lot of piracy out there. And uh and I also wonder too,
26:33
as you're talking about net neutrality, you know how how much that will
26:36
play into it, because if you're paying more for your Internet, if you're
26:40
paying more for certain features and packages, uh, you know, going to
26:44
those those torrent sites is not going to be as readily accessible as it is
26:48
now if net neutrality goes away. Yeah. Yeah, Well the other thing
26:55
I remember is that you go on a block fluster you got to buy how
26:57
many DVDs? Where online? You just need a copy of the movie,
27:02
and you don't have to make anything anymore? Yeah, exactly, car compete.
27:07
Yeah, but it would be fun though it's just in a best case
27:10
scenario to just own a blockbuster or something you know, other guy almost like
27:15
what Tarantino used to work at, you know, where was it video archive?
27:18
I totally agree, and I think it can still work in certain cities.
27:22
I really do, because a lot of people don't want to go on
27:26
the internet, you know, just to find the right right town, like
27:29
Las not the right town, but maybe somewhere in in Spokane, Washington or
27:33
Boys, Idaho maybe the perfect spot for that. Yeah, you know,
27:38
there's still a few blockbusters left, and they're all in Alaska. Really I
27:44
believe that. See there are people don't want to be hyberding in their house.
27:48
They want to get out. That's great love hearing that. Yeah.
27:52
And also because you know the internet there is slow as well, but do
27:56
and and you know, you're right, I do want to get out.
27:59
But you know they were able to go out and you know, go to
28:00
the Blockbuster and you know they don't have to stream it or anything. They
28:03
can just you know, play it right from the blue ray or the DVD.
28:06
And uh when I when I did read that, you know, I
28:07
started saying, you know what, it makes sense, you know, because
28:11
you know you're you know, I don't know how populated Alaska is, and
28:15
you know, but I know it's it's not that populated, you know what
28:18
I mean. It's you know, when you think of Alaska, you think
28:19
of igloos and polar bears. Yeah. Absolutely. Uh So, you know,
28:26
Johnny, as we talked about, you know, getting back to I'm
28:29
sorry now and I started getting off topic again, but as we as we
28:32
go back to talking about you know, your your career and you and producing
28:36
and everything, and and you said you had to prove that you could direct.
28:38
And I think that's very, very critical because I think that's that happens
28:42
to a lot of people, you know, I think that's that's one of
28:45
those uh, you know, it's unique to everybody, but it's also universal
28:48
at the same time, because people want to see what you're capable of.
28:52
They want to see what you can do. So so you made the horror
28:55
movie Delirium, and you know, what was your experience, you know,
28:59
just just getting that made in terms of, hey, this is the movie
29:02
where I'm going to show everybody what I can do. Well, the thing
29:07
is that, you know, going back to the whole subject, is that
29:10
you know, people don't want to be your first try. They just won't
29:11
do it no matter what script you have. You know, that's their career
29:15
on the line. So that's why you have to be able to show and
29:18
prove yourself. And that's what's tricky is that, you know, unless you
29:21
have you know, everyone doesn't look at your movie as a one hundred thousand
29:25
dollars movie or two hundred dollars movie. They look at it as as a
29:29
movie. So you can't tell someone, well, this was only this that's
29:32
why I did this they don't care. They only care did you make a
29:36
quality movie, not caring about your budget or anything else. So now you're
29:38
competing against that, which really makes it hard. So when I did my
29:42
movie, the background that I had was the most important of learning every one's
29:48
job, because once I did that, we'll be right back after a word
29:53
from our sponsor. And now back to the show. That allowed me to
30:03
have a six man crew. That's all I shot my movie with. I
30:04
didn't have any more than that. I knew what I needed to do.
30:07
I prepped it. Prepped is the most important thing. Where today's movies they
30:11
don't give you prep anymore. They give you four weeks to do a great
30:15
movie. It needs to be prepped so great and having every backstop every way
30:18
of a problem happens, and ready to make change at any time. I
30:22
don't think I've ever shot a script that we shot to the script itself.
30:26
There's always a moment where you think, oh my god, what if I
30:30
did this? And you have to be prepared for that, and you have
30:33
to have a great team behind you. Remember, when you're directing, your
30:34
number one thing that you should be doing at that moment is finding the right
30:40
VP for you, because you're not just making the movie. His eyes behind
30:44
that thing and he needs to move that camera. No director ever says,
30:47
Okay, now move that camera here or there, and that's great, But
30:48
you've got to find moments through the dialogue that gets you to that other character
30:52
to not cause this delay of a camera speep or a hard cut. And
30:56
that's what's so important to hire Or is it finding that perfect soulmates that you
31:02
could find in a DP that you guys think alike, you imagine each other
31:06
like, and you guys could pick the shot perfectly and know that he has
31:10
free range to do whatever he wants to do. To find that as well.
31:12
It's a partnership, and that's what everyone wants to say. Well,
31:15
I did this movie with not I. I mean every movie I've done,
31:18
I've done with my dps. I have two dps I trust wholeheartedly, and
31:23
I don't want to do a movie without them because we know each other,
31:26
we know what we both like, and so I would suggest that to everyone
31:30
and product, know what your product is, I mean, know what is
31:33
going to sell for the next four years. Don't like found footage? For
31:37
me? When I made the found footage, I did the worst mistake because
31:41
I created something that was hot at the moment. I didn't look into the
31:45
future. And that's what you need to do. If I could do a
31:47
found footage, imagine how many other films are going to be sound footage.
31:51
So what can I do? What can I do to be different? Because
31:53
that two hundred thousand dollars. The only thing that's going to make you stand
31:56
out is if you have something that's different and new and fresh. And so
32:00
that's what you really have to consider. Just so I'm glad to shoot a
32:04
movie to show that you hack you know how to direct, because no one's
32:06
gonna The only time someone's gonna tell you that you're a great director is when
32:09
they love your movie, not love your shots, love your movie. Yeah,
32:15
and that's a good point, Johnny, you know, and it's always
32:17
about that the whole experience, right, And you mentioned building a team,
32:22
so you know, just about finding the right director, cinematography, so you
32:24
know how to work together. I couldn't agree more because I've been a part
32:28
of film sets like that. I've seen film sets like that where you know,
32:31
they want to hire somebody because they got a nice camera, or they
32:34
want to hire somebody because they can talk to talk, but you know,
32:37
when it comes time to when it becomes crunch time, it all sort of
32:40
falls away. Yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, and you know, and
32:46
also we talked about just standing out from the pack. I think that is
32:50
you know, obviously it's more important than ever, you know, because right
32:52
now it's a war of eyeballs and ears, right you know, it's a
32:54
war of you know, how can I get my movie seene and by by
32:58
making it, you know, as unique as possible, not sounding like something
33:00
is someone's already has already seen, which as we talked about found footage.
33:05
That's why I think Paranormal Activity really found that niche even like the Blair Witch
33:09
Project as well, the Blair Witch Project, they really were able to capitalize
33:14
on the fact that the Internet was so new, it was in infancy stages
33:17
and you know, everyone really believed they and the marketing was brilliant behind that
33:22
because it made it seem like it was a real mystery that and this movie
33:25
was going to be you know, you're watching a documentary, you know.
33:29
And then with with Paranormal Activity, it was you know, I think they
33:32
did something similar, but they were able to just capitalize on this and and
33:36
he made it for even cheaper than Blair Witch was we I think weren't made
33:40
it for what thirteen thousand. So it's like, you know, standing out,
33:44
you know, just finding that niche and standing out is sort of key.
33:46
And I think you know to do that rather than just you know,
33:51
reverse engineer. And I think that the way to do that is, you
33:53
know, find what movies you like and write a script that you'd like to
33:57
see and and go from there and then and sort of use your own what
34:00
resources you have, and then see how you can get it to sort of
34:04
fit in that context. So you're not looking going out and going well,
34:07
I need to you know, go out and rent a yacht to blow up
34:09
or something like that. You know, it's stuff you have. It's stuff
34:13
that you have access to that you can use to make your movie well.
34:16
And the most important thing is, like when I say find finding something new
34:21
and fresh, you have to be willing to get ready to change your whole
34:24
thought pattern of that because it could fall on you could fall on your face.
34:30
But by doing that, just as fast as you get successful. And
34:32
by what I mean by that is that when I made my movie, I
34:36
knew I had to be different, so I wanted to make stand by Me
34:38
meets a horror movie. I wanted five characters, and I made these guys
34:43
hang out with each other for three months. I filmed them for three months,
34:45
just hanging out until I knew they were best friends and wanted to hang
34:49
out with each other. That's when I made the movie, and that's how
34:52
I knew it was going to get that stand by me moment. It was
34:53
more about character, and so I made this movie. It was had scars
34:57
in it and had these great moments. And when I made it, I
35:00
turn around and people, you know what, when they got that title horror
35:04
on there and you're not delivering horror. My idea was great, and it
35:07
looked great at won some film festivals, but at the end of the day,
35:08
when people buy it, they said, Johnny, we don't know how
35:12
to categorize this movie. We don't even know how to sell it because it's
35:15
not really a horror and it is, so we don't know what to do
35:17
with it. So that's when I had to go back, not only to
35:20
change it out of sound footage, but I had to put more scares in
35:22
it and cut out a lot of the dramatic parts where I built these characters,
35:27
So a lot of stuff I truly believed in I had to change because
35:30
at the end of the day, it's not about what I think is pervious,
35:35
what you know, the audience and what the buyers and the distribution company
35:38
thinks it's good. Yeah, And you know, again as we talked about
35:43
sort of selling, it's sort of like, you know, exactly what what
35:45
is everyone looking for? What is everyone buying? How do I get people
35:47
to buy this movie? And you know, as as we talked about your
35:52
second film that you know, in the past couple of months, because again
35:54
in the pre interview we were talking about how the past couple of months been
35:58
actually you know, really good for you, you know, not now Delirium
36:00
is coming out soon, which is the movie we're just talking about, and
36:04
now you have a second film that's coming out of Vengees, a love story
36:07
with Nicholas Cage. So how did you go about, you know, getting
36:10
that film, Johnny, did you put that together or was that something that
36:14
was the sort of pitch to you? Well, No, it was a
36:17
raat movie. They Patriot Pitchers asked me to produce it with Nick Cage.
36:22
Who I've been friends with for twenty years. And I met him during Gone
36:25
in sixteen and we did a lot of movies after that together. And so
36:30
I hear us producing it the director. I didn't believe it. I didn't
36:32
think he could pull it off for what I had, so I basically had
36:36
to fire him. And Nick wanted to direct the movie himself, and I
36:39
said great. So since me and him had this great collaboration together, you
36:44
know, he was so busy with his schedule and I would you know,
36:46
he called me up, he goes, hey, can you start the shot
36:47
list? Hey, you know, show me the locations I'll pick and all
36:51
this stuff. So we were working hand in hand, and then you know
36:53
when when the budgets started getting tighter and tighter and tighter, you know,
36:57
I had to cut days out of the movie. And I told him,
36:59
I, you know, you have to do this movie in twenty one days.
37:00
And he said, that's gonna be very hard for me to do plus
37:04
my schedule. Johnny, I don't know if I could pull it off.
37:07
Why don't you do it? And so everyone agreed, the producers and everyone
37:12
said, yeah, John Jarney should do it. He knows the movie,
37:14
the best. Then DGA stepped in and said, nope, Johnny can't do
37:17
it because he's a producer on the film, and by Directors Guild rules,
37:22
you can't take over a movie for a director if you're the producer. So
37:27
we didn't have a director. We were supposed to start shooting in forty eight
37:30
hours, and eight hours before we started shooting, my producer, my financier,
37:36
got his attorneys after the DGA, and they finally agreed that I could
37:38
direct the movie. So I didn't have that much warning that this was my
37:43
movie and it was about rape, and it was a sensitive story and it
37:45
was very hard. So I just worked every night and every day. I
37:50
was off to prep this movie, you know, for every day. And
37:52
it was a really hard, hard movie. But I'm very proud of it,
37:58
and Nick is very very proud of it. I think we pulled off
38:00
something special. So when you mentioned prepping even though your days off, Johnny,
38:06
was that more like you were in your producer's hat, Like you're thinking
38:07
to yourself, Okay, well is this location really locked? You know,
38:12
what could go wrong? What else am I going to need? Was it
38:14
stuff like that? No, I already you know I do that I mean
38:19
like when I direct, Like when I direct my last wee hang in everything
38:22
else my hear. My deal in my head is I'll go produce it for
38:24
the first two weeks and I'll get everything handled with unions, everything else and
38:30
make all the deals. But then I shut off to my producer at take
38:34
that off, and I go dright into direct. And when I did this
38:37
on Vengeance, it was about seeing seeing the scenes. I usually have this
38:43
weird thing that people make fun of me for that, but I could see
38:46
things. I could see scenes in my head go around me. I could
38:50
see cars passed by my body when I'm just standing there looking. So I
38:53
like to close down the street and sit in the middle of it, in
38:55
the street and look at it and find the scene and and I see that.
39:00
Then I could really pick the picture where all my cameras could go and
39:04
all that. And that's why again saying a great DP can visualize your story
39:07
because as I talk out loud, he's seeing what I'm seeing now too.
39:10
So I had to make this movie. It was Nick's movie, and I
39:14
had to try to find out how to make it mine where I could believe
39:16
it. You know, I'm shooting a rape scene is very sensitive and it's
39:20
very hard to shoot rape scene because people get so disturbed by it that that
39:24
your movie could be ruined by a bad rape scene by making it too much.
39:30
And so my rape scene this movie, a little girl is watching her
39:32
mom getting raped. And I thought the way I could do this and make
39:36
it violent because it needs to be violent, because we needed to know why
39:38
these guys should get what they get by the end of this movie. That
39:43
I said, what better than to show a rape scene through the eyes of
39:45
this girl and what her visual is and what her pain is that she's feeling,
39:50
and very show very little of the rape itself. And that was different
39:54
than you know, Nick's version of it. And that's where I brought mine
39:59
in. That's what I do during prep We'll be right back after a word
40:04
from our sponsor and now back to the show, to try to prepare what
40:13
I feel the movie should look like. Yeah, and I think that's a
40:16
good point too, because you know, there are movies that have very very
40:20
violent rape scenes, you know, like I Spin on Your Grave, Irreversible
40:24
Shoal Dogs, just to name a few. And you know, and again
40:28
you were mentioning, you know, doing things a little bit differently, and
40:30
I think the way that you did it it definitely sounds like, you know,
40:36
obviously you're taking a very touchy subject, a very you know, hard
40:38
subject, but it's it's a different way to sort of show this narrative rather
40:44
than obviously at the graphic rape like I was just in the three movies I
40:46
just mentioned, right, absolutely right, so so as you know, and
40:52
you mentioned your your third movie by the way, and I this is actually
40:55
the movie that got us talking through mister keyho was is is Hangman? Again?
41:00
I saw the poster and I said, wow, that looks awesome.
41:04
And again then Michael, you know, just introduced us out of sheer luck
41:07
or law of attraction, whatever you want to call it. But you know,
41:10
as we talk about Hangman, I wanted to ask, you know,
41:15
what is it like? Well, I want to ask actually because I want
41:16
to ask what it's like working with al Pacino, But I also want to
41:19
ask you know too, Johnny, you know, how did you go about
41:22
with this movie and getting this made with Hangman? Did you know was this
41:27
another project that you were able to get made by yourself or was this pitch
41:30
to you? Well after I did the other Vengeance a love story. Hangman
41:37
was in the company A Patriot, and so they had a director already attached
41:40
to it. And when Michael, the financier saw the movie Vengeance, he
41:46
said, I want you to do Hangman, And so I had to talk
41:50
my way into Arnold Rifkin, who was the other producer, and he didn't
41:52
really want me because he already had his director. So it was a struggle
41:57
and Michael said, well, I'm not going to finance unless Johnny direct and
42:00
he goes, well, well, well it's not our decisions out it's Albacino's.
42:05
So out here. Albercino, you know, didn't want to set up
42:08
the meeting. He said, well, let me see what he did before,
42:10
and he watched My Venus the Love Story. He stopped after the rape
42:15
scene and called and said I'd like to meet him because he was blown away
42:20
by how I treated the rape scene, and he didn't watch the rest of
42:22
the movie, which was funny. He just wanted to see something that really
42:27
caught his eye. And so the scariest day of my life is knowing I'm
42:30
going to go meet the number one filmmaker of all time, the iconic Albercino
42:37
you know, how can I top this? And how am I going to
42:39
talk to this man who's worked with Scorsese and someone and Coppola and let him
42:44
think that I'm as good as them, you know. And there's one thing
42:49
I have, and that's passion. I don't care about the money, I
42:52
don't care about anything else but to try to make a film that is emotionally
42:58
that gets people emotionally involved. And that's what I am almost hear. My
43:01
favorite movies are like Miracle and Rocky and all those movies, not you know,
43:06
great action movies, and so going in there, I guess I gave
43:09
Al a pitch that he just said, your energy is so big and you
43:14
believe in it so much your words, And before we knew it, we
43:17
were doing lines opposite of each other and he would do he goes when when
43:22
I say this, and I'd come back with the line right after that,
43:25
and he would come back to me, and we started improving, and before
43:29
I know it, I was going there every day and we were doing improv
43:31
and finally he'd call me two in the morning and go, Okay, this
43:36
person with two lines Johnny the cop that's in the police station. I said,
43:39
cop number two and he goes, Yeah, he goes, where were
43:42
they born? I go Minnesota. He goes from a single family. I
43:46
said, no, their family's still married, but they're having problems. And
43:50
it was what we thought of what the characters would be. So when we
43:53
got to the set, he was able to focus differently on each character,
43:58
knowing what they went through in their life, even if it was a one
44:00
line character. And that's what really made this movie so amazing, is because
44:05
it just became so real and to work with Albacino. Probably any direct or,
44:09
any director in the world, should be as lucky to have the moment
44:14
that I had with this man who's probably the most incredible actor and human being
44:19
other men. Yeah, I mean, I just wanted to That's one of
44:22
the questions I want to ask about working with Albucino, was, you know,
44:25
I mean obviously there had to be some kind of almost like a timidation
44:30
because you know, al Pacino has been in so many freaking movies that have
44:32
just you know, skyrocketed, like you know, superco and you know which
44:37
where he played a detective also, And I mean that's what I was going
44:39
to ask, is you know, if you ever if he ever, just
44:43
you know, not not like coming with an ego, but just the fact
44:45
that you know, hey, look at Albucino. I mean, this man
44:47
has just made so many awesome movies, and it's like, you know,
44:52
how do you direct somebody like that his worked with Scorsese ego, but stuff
44:54
like that, you know, it's just without being like, well, you
44:58
know, you know what I mean, it's so so that's good, Johnny.
45:00
I'm glad that you know you were able to sort of find that that
45:04
core. And again, you know, you're passionate, you know what you're
45:06
doing, and you know so. And I want to ask you too as
45:09
you're sort of going back and forth forth with him, and he asked,
45:13
you know, where was this character born? You know, that's just you
45:15
adle me. I mean, what would have happened, just as a what
45:19
if if you would have said, Al, I don't know. Well,
45:23
the thing is that I prepared myself so well that I knew everything that I
45:29
need. I read that script eighteen times before I met with Al, and
45:32
I was involved with everyone. I knew where they were in the scene.
45:36
I I already pictured the set. I ready pictured who they were, how
45:38
they carried their shoulders, how they walked and everything else. So, I
45:43
mean, the great part about Hangman is that every role drove the story,
45:46
so it was easy to know what emotions these people felt. It's like in
45:51
my opening scene when we probably the first hanging, you know, everyone said,
45:53
well, Johnny, this girl so weak, you know why, So
45:57
why isn't she supposed to be a cough? I said, yeah, she's
45:59
a beat cop working two in the morning shift, and and you know,
46:01
and and she works a schoolyard. And so to me that that character needed
46:07
to be a little bit weaker. So my lead character, Rooney could come
46:10
into this movie and be strong and not be compared to another cop. And
46:15
so it was stuff like that that made me realize that when I met Al
46:17
is that I already thought this stuff out and I re pretty much knew.
46:21
I didn't know the backstory so much, which I learned a lot of,
46:23
but I pictured this girl was wounded somehow, and she was weak, and
46:27
so what would that lead to? And that led to what her family life
46:30
would be, And so Al brought it more out in me as well,
46:35
you know, But we did a lot of rewrites from from the prep.
46:37
It was an everyday meeting and every day talk while I prepped the movie.
46:42
So it was really quite interesting and he wouldn't allow stuff that he felt that
46:45
the audience would stop at. As a matter of fact, he sat in
46:47
the editing room with me probably seven days, didn't say a word, just
46:52
hung out with me to watch see how we were doing this. And you
46:54
know, at the end of the movie, I told him out, I
46:57
know you thought we made seven, But it's a character piece about four people
47:00
struggling with their lives to find out how they can help each other. And
47:05
that's what the movie kind of is. Again. I'm all about relationships and
47:08
movies, and I know that everyone's gonna go see it, probably is going
47:12
to go into go, oh my god, this is another seven, because
47:14
that's what the trailer looks like, and it is. It's like a seven,
47:16
But it's more about having a relationship with these actors more than almost seven
47:23
kind of movie. Yeah, and you know, I have the I haven't
47:29
seen the movie yet, but I actually I actually ordered it on Voodoo and
47:32
it's out early on the night right now, so I'm actually gonna watch it,
47:36
not tonight but tomorrow, so I can't wait. And I saw it
47:39
was up there and I said, oh, I said I should. I
47:43
actually ordered it. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna have
47:44
Johnny on the podcast, and I thought I was gonna time to watch it,
47:46
but I didn't, but I made sure to order it. And by
47:50
the way, everyone, I'm going to link to that in the show notes
47:52
Hangman on Voodoo. It's actually out before it's in theaters or the same time
47:55
it's in theaters, yes, and which I think, by the way,
47:59
Johnny, I think it's a really good idea for for a lot of films
48:02
in general, because it sort of gives you, you know, so get
48:07
a different form of access, you know, in case you know the movie
48:12
isn't playing around you, or if you know there's not a theory you like
48:15
around you. I've always said this is a really good idea that I you
48:17
know what I mean. As we talk again about vod and everything else,
48:21
I always think it's a good idea for for a lot of films to do
48:24
that, is to come out either at the same time it's in theaters or
48:29
even or shortly then after, you know what I mean, right, I
48:32
totally agree with you, And so Johnny, you know, as we as
48:37
we sort of you know, have been talking for about forty five minutes.
48:40
You know, is there anything in closing that you want to talk about,
48:44
Johnny or or anything that we can get a chance to discuss. You know.
48:49
Half the reason why I do these these interviews, and I'll ask because
48:52
again I care about movies and the worst thing about this this business is failure
48:58
and how low it could really bring you, how easy it is to quit
49:01
this business. And there's so many people that are more passionate about films than
49:07
probably anything in this world. And I just have to tell everyone is that,
49:10
you know, knowledge is everything, and the key thing you got to
49:14
be is the smartest guy in the room. Learn more than the guy that
49:16
you're meeting, and learn everything you can about him him as well. I
49:22
mean, you know, have the knowledge of knowing his work and how it
49:24
compares to your work. But people, you know, the ego gets really
49:28
big in this industry, and that is what destroys people unfortunately. So I
49:34
just say, knowledge is everything, and learn as much as you can before
49:37
you are ready to go out there. And you get one chance at this,
49:39
don't blow it just because you get that opportunity. Be ready for your
49:45
opportunity. You know, Johnny that is, that is absolutely great advice.
49:49
You know, always be ready and always learn as much as you possibly can.
49:53
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back
50:00
to the show and Johnny, where we'll find you out online? Well,
50:09
the Martini Films dot net. Martini films dot net, that is, I
50:15
have a website that explains my story and my whole career from stunts to acting
50:21
to producing. I'm going to start opening up seminars of how to raise money
50:27
and help people in Georgia, all my crew members and all that that want
50:30
to become better filmmakers and even more filmmakers. So I'm going to start putting
50:35
on seminars how to go about putting together films and all that. Hopefully i'll
50:38
have that recorded. And I do have an upcoming movie with our friend Michael
50:43
Keho, which I got to tell you I'm very very proud of and I
50:45
cannot wait to get started on this thing. In the movie is called Judge
50:47
Not I think that is more like the Seven that that everyone wants to see.
50:52
It's really dark and gritty, and that's kind of like my genre that
50:57
I want to go with, Like Dave David Flencher pentuer It. That's really
51:00
really cool. And you and mister Keyhoe together, that's, uh, that's
51:05
gonna be interesting because you know again because Keyhoe knows everybody and uh, you
51:08
know, yeah, uh yeah, absolutely very excited. Yeah. And uh,
51:15
Johnny, when when you are doing those sevens, let me know and
51:17
I will add them to the show notes as well. I'll update them.
51:21
You know, everybody, Everything that Johnny and I talked about on the show
51:23
in this episode will be on the show notes at Dave Bullets dot com.
51:28
Twitter. It's at Dave Underscore Bullets. Johnny Martin, I want to say
51:31
thank you so much for coming on. Thank you very much, Dave,
51:36
very nice, me and you all. I want to thank Dave so much
51:39
for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get
51:42
links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show
51:45
notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash three seventy five. Thank you
51:50
so much for listening. Guys, As always, keep on writing no matter
51:52
what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting
51:57
podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting t V. MHM