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Best Of - Bajan by Birth, Jamaican by Heart: How I Found Love, Community & My Calling in Kingston · Babes, how did you get here

0:00
Welcome to a Life Elsewhere, the podcast that tells the unique stories of those who have had the courage to move abroad.
0:07
I am April Jackson and I'll be speaking with Jivika Lalwani Chugani, she goes by Jivi.
0:13
Although born and raised in Barbados, her journey in Jamaica began as a student at university,
0:19
but transformed when she fell in love and married a Jamaican.
0:23
By profession, she's a physiotherapist, but if you ask her, her real job, her first job is a mother.
0:30
And as a proud Hindu woman, Jivi embodies the richness of weaving nationalities, ethnicities and traditions
0:37
into a life that is deeply rooted in love, family and adaptability.
0:44
We're dropping new episodes every single week, so make sure you subscribe.
0:48
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0:54
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0:59
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1:04
So Jivi, you live in Jamaica, but you are from Barbados.
1:08
Tell me how you ended up here.
1:11
Okay, so in a very short story, I came here when I was 18 to study at the University of the West Indies,
1:18
where I did my physical therapy degree, and I should say I fell in love with a Jamaican and then decided to stay.
1:29
So I did my degree here and I met him when I was 18, and this is 22 years later,
1:36
and we're married for 16 years now with two daughters who are also Jamaican.
1:40
So when you first came for university, was the plan initially to just come here?
1:45
Is it a three or four year program?
1:47
It's a three and a half and then a year of internship.
1:50
So about four and a half years?
1:52
Yes.
1:53
And then the plan was originally to go back to Barbados, or...
1:56
So the thing is, Barbados doesn't require an internship with a physical therapy degree.
2:04
So here I am telling my parents, like, you know, I think I should do an internship because,
2:09
you know, the experience in Jamaica, I'm not going to get that Barbados.
2:12
You know, Barbados is so small and people say that if you do medicine in Jamaica,
2:17
you can literally practice anywhere in the world.
2:20
Okay, why is that?
2:21
And lack of resources to start with, just the amount of cases that you see.
2:28
It's very vast and so it gives you a lot more experience.
2:34
And so I remember calling my parents and saying, yeah, you know,
2:37
I think I'll just stay another year and do my intern because
2:40
suppose I want to go elsewhere and they're like, you sure?
2:46
And I'm like, yeah, just a year, just one more year.
2:48
And they agreed and I ended up staying.
2:52
And the reason I did it was because at that point, my husband and I were, you know,
2:57
so kind of making things.
3:01
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3:17
What is your first impression of Jamaica at that time?
3:20
So just backing up a little bit in Barbados, Jamaica was always kind of
3:29
portrayed as being a bit scary.
3:31
Okay.
3:32
Yeah, and Jamaica is being aggressive and, you know, it's, you have to be careful.
3:37
And coming from Barbados, which was in comparison, I mean, you could leave your doors open.
3:42
And, you know, it wasn't so, I want to say that I was a bit clouded
3:48
with that sort of, you know, thought, but I'm not kidding when I landed here for the second time
3:55
because, of course, I came when I was 11.
3:56
But coming at 11 and 18, it's a totally different experience.
4:00
I just fell in love with the mountains.
4:02
I was like, this place is so green and Barbados is a flat, right?
4:06
We're surrounded just by water, which is absolutely beautiful.
4:09
But this was such a delight to see like so much greenery and I really fell in love with the mountains.
4:16
So I would say I immediately was like, I could live there immediately.
4:23
What was your university experience like?
4:28
I would say it was, I would say it was beautiful.
4:34
Honestly, I met, I remember coming off of the plane and starting because I had come very close
4:42
to when school was starting.
4:43
And so I reached on the day of my orientation.
4:45
I never forget this.
4:47
Like, I told my parents I'm literally reaching when orientation is going to be happening.
4:51
But that's how things played out and it was fine.
4:55
And I remember just being so accepted and received with so much warmth and so much love.
5:04
And I'll be honest, those friends that met me on that first day are friends now.
5:09
We're 22 years later.
5:11
Oh wow.
5:12
22 years later.
5:13
And then when you're in Jamaica, do you open your own practice or do you work elsewhere?
5:18
So when I came back to Jamaica, I was working with my husband and his business.
5:23
Co-director.
5:25
That was interesting.
5:27
You know, when you're a physiotherapist by profession, but the truth is,
5:32
growing up, my parents also ran a business.
5:34
And so it was very familiar to me.
5:37
It wasn't, you know, something that I hadn't seen or know the runnings of.
5:41
But it was, it was interesting being with your partner and being in the business together.
5:47
But I think I was more of a moral support to him and the keen eye on what to purchase.
5:56
So I was that kind of helping hand or that sort of support system.
6:05
And then do you, when do you start having babies?
6:08
Because I know that motherhood is super important to you.
6:12
So two years after we got married, and we got married young.
6:16
So I was 24 and he was 26.
6:19
But because we were, as I told you, when I was 18, is when I met him.
6:23
And since then, we've been together.
6:25
So we did feel very comfortable that, you know, this is where we both were at.
6:30
Sure.
6:31
You know, we want to be parents.
6:32
Right.
6:33
And so two years later is when we had our first.
6:38
Okay.
6:39
Yes.
6:39
And how was motherhood for you in those early stages from pregnancy?
6:44
How did you feel?
6:44
You know, I think I love being pregnant.
6:47
Oh, yes.
6:48
I actually love that feeling of being pregnant.
6:51
Okay.
6:52
All the joys that come with it.
6:54
And I know it's not for everybody.
6:56
Sure.
6:56
And we, yeah, like everyone has their own experience with it.
7:02
But for the most part, I truly embraced that.
7:05
You know, it was very, I don't know if it's because it's kind of in our blood,
7:10
that whole nurturing, you know, I think that really roots back to my Indian culture as well.
7:17
I feel like we're, you know, being a mom is such a, such a prestigious thing.
7:23
Sure.
7:23
And it's so, maybe it's cultural, I don't know.
7:26
But it was something I truly, truly enjoyed.
7:30
And funny enough, Jamaican Chinese food is very different than Beijing Chinese food in what way?
7:38
It's completely different, the flavors different, the,
7:42
what they, how they do certain sauces are completely different than Barbados.
7:46
Yeah.
7:46
I would never get Sashuan eggplant,
7:50
Okay.
7:50
Albergines in Barbados.
7:52
Okay.
7:52
And you can find that at every Chinese restaurant in Jamaica.
7:56
Like, I never thought that Albergines or eggplant could be cooked.
8:00
In that way.
8:01
Okay.
8:01
Until I came to Jamaica just to give you an example.
8:04
Yeah, that's really interesting.
8:05
Yeah, that's really interesting.
8:06
Yeah.
8:07
And so food, clearly you love food.
8:09
It means, it means a lot to you.
8:10
Is there a favorite Jamaican dish that you have?
8:14
Favorite Jamaican dish.
8:15
I am going to say roast bread fruit.
8:17
Really?
8:18
I love roast bread fruit.
8:20
And I love roast bread fruit.
8:22
And I love it with a good steamed fish.
8:25
With the okra.
8:26
I was told to say, do you like okra?
8:28
Yes.
8:28
Love it.
8:29
Because that's a staple in Indian cooking.
8:31
Yes.
8:32
Okra is something that we can do in a million ways.
8:34
Yes.
8:35
I went to an Indian restaurant in the UK and they had breaded with the okra.
8:39
And fried it.
8:40
And so I then took that on my menu.
8:43
Because I hadn't seen it in that way.
8:44
The okra was steamed fish.
8:46
Right.
8:47
And then I see it all crispy.
8:48
And I served it with like a peanut spicy sauce.
8:51
Yes.
8:51
And I had people who didn't eat okra because some people find it too slimy.
8:54
Definitely.
8:55
And now that we had deep fried it,
8:57
it was like unsold.
8:59
So okra is a vegetable.
9:00
I mean steamed is so slimy.
9:02
And so it's a very acquired taste.
9:05
Like my children don't like okra in steamed fish.
9:08
Ok.
9:09
But now if I do it, stir fried with potato,
9:12
aloo, and I put all the dry masala.
9:15
And I served that with a hot roti.
9:16
You're going to have it?
9:17
They're sold.
9:18
Oh gosh.
9:19
I'm sold.
9:20
They're slimy.
9:22
We got to have an Indian cook date.
9:24
Oh man.
9:25
Number one April.
9:26
Aki, we're going back to food.
9:28
Aki, you all call Aki.
9:30
Aki.
9:31
Aki.
9:31
And what you all call Ginnips,
9:34
we call Aki and Barbados.
9:35
Oh really?
9:36
Yes.
9:36
But you don't use our Aki at all.
9:39
So you don't need a word for that.
9:40
No.
9:40
So Ginnips in Jamaica equals Aki and Barbados.
9:46
Ok.
9:46
So that's like number one.
9:48
When I came here and people are like,
9:49
we want we want to eat Ginnips.
9:51
And I'm like, you mean Aki, right?
9:52
They're like, no jivvy.
9:54
Ginnips.
9:55
I'm like, are you sure they're like,
9:57
yeah, what are you talking about?
9:59
So I remember that being the first thing
10:02
that I was like, I'm sure about you know.
10:04
So is there anything else
10:06
that was a particular culture shock knit?
10:07
Not necessarily language,
10:08
but maybe something that happens
10:10
in the way of life that we might take for granted.
10:12
Like my cousin,
10:14
my friend came from New York to visit me
10:16
and we were by a man apart
10:17
and I'm waiting to give way
10:19
and there were some goats that crossed the road
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and just says to me,
10:22
if we're why we're goats in our city?
10:24
And I swear to you,
10:25
I would have been about 20 at the time
10:27
and it had never occurred to me that it was strange.
10:30
I didn't even notice the goats.
10:31
Yeah, I mean, just it's just like
10:32
it was only until she said,
10:34
I was like, that is a bit strange
10:35
that there are goats like crossing the road.
10:37
Yeah.
10:38
So there was one thing that really shocked me
10:41
when I came in terms of that
10:43
and that was like the window washers
10:46
that stand at the stoplight.
10:48
Like you don't see that in Barbados.
10:50
And so initially,
10:51
but I remember traveling and going to India
10:53
and seeing that,
10:54
like it was a norm.
10:55
Right.
10:55
You know, and talking about sheep on street,
10:58
you know cows walk around the streets of India.
11:00
Yeah, totally.
11:01
A mother sacred, though.
11:02
Very sacred.
11:03
And so you're absolutely not moving that cow.
11:06
You let the cow stay, you know?
11:09
So I remember being very shocked at the...
11:12
Rindavaya.
11:13
You know, you came here as a student.
11:15
You then got married.
11:16
There are very different stages in your life.
11:19
For sure.
11:20
How do you think that living in Jamaica
11:22
has influenced those different stages?
11:25
I would say that
11:29
it wasn't so different
11:30
because I was born in Barbados.
11:32
Okay.
11:32
And yes, I was raised completely
11:35
with my roots of Indian culture.
11:39
And you know what happens, April,
11:40
is that when you're seasoned that way,
11:42
automatically,
11:44
you end up translating that with your children,
11:46
because it's almost as if
11:49
this is what you know.
11:50
You're passing that back.
11:51
And you're kind of just passing it on.
11:52
Yeah.
11:53
So it didn't change much in Jamaica
11:55
because it was very similar
11:57
to growing up in Barbados
11:59
where we still had to keep the culture alive.
12:01
Sure.
12:02
You know, we have to keep the culture alive
12:04
by doing things and, you know,
12:06
having a community that celebrates
12:09
everything that's Indian or...
12:10
So I think for me,
12:12
it wasn't that much of a difference
12:14
having raised my girls here
12:16
as opposed to when I grew up in Barbados.
12:18
I think that I have literally
12:21
carboned that hair
12:22
and lucky enough that
12:24
there's still the availability
12:26
of Indian community
12:29
and just a simple Indian store.
12:33
Indian grocery store
12:34
where you can still cook your food
12:36
and still do everything.
12:37
It might sound so trivial
12:38
but those are the small things
12:39
that still keep everything alive.
12:42
Oh, no, 100%.
12:42
Yeah.
12:43
Switching to gears about working
12:46
and being a mom.
12:47
I know you took some time out
12:49
when you had your first baby.
12:50
Yes.
12:50
And then seven years afterwards,
12:52
you went back into work.
12:53
Yes.
12:54
You're practicing physiotherapy at this time.
12:56
I am.
12:56
Why did you decide that that was the time?
12:59
Why did you decide that you wanted to do that at all?
13:02
I actually, you know,
13:05
with physiotherapy,
13:06
it's such a hands-on job
13:08
and there's so much
13:10
that you put into physically,
13:12
mentally with your patient.
13:13
Sure.
13:14
And I remember when we...
13:15
When I first got married,
13:17
I was practicing in the public sector.
13:19
So I was working at Monor Rehab
13:21
and I did a couple of hours at Boston Monty,
13:23
you know, some sessions
13:25
because I had specialized in like neuro-physiologists.
13:29
So a lot of like, you know,
13:32
children with cerebral palsy
13:34
or the ones at Monor Rehab
13:36
that had spinal cord injuries.
13:37
So I also did a lot of exercise therapy.
13:40
So those were, you know, avenues
13:43
that I could, you know, disseminate what I had to share.
13:46
Sure.
13:47
And then I remember my husband
13:49
having the conversation saying,
13:50
well, you know, your job requires you
13:52
to do so much hands-on physically.
13:56
And, you know, of course,
13:57
no one knows what to expect when you first get pregnant
14:00
and it's your first pregnancy
14:01
and you know, you're worried about
14:03
is the cheese too soft?
14:04
Does it have bacteria, you know?
14:06
So I'm so beating that.
14:07
So I decided to take a break
14:10
and it was 100% support of my husband
14:14
who also was like, I think,
14:16
this is the time to just give yourself, you know,
14:19
enjoy the pregnancy and joy being with a kid.
14:22
And for some, it might seem like, you know,
14:27
you've given up your career.
14:30
Look, five questions.
14:31
Do you prefer tasty or juicy patty?
14:33
Tasty.
14:35
Any day.
14:35
Oh, okay.
14:36
Any day.
14:37
Corn goat or oxen,
14:38
no, you don't eat oxen.
14:39
I do eat ox tail, the beef.
14:41
Yes.
14:42
As soon as it's all that,
14:43
I don't know the color.
14:45
Do you prefer jerk chicken or pan chicken?
14:48
Jerk chicken.
14:50
Cassava or, yeah.
14:51
Cassava.
14:52
Coconut water or cane juice?
14:54
Coconut water.
14:55
Do you drink?
14:56
No.
14:57
Okay, I'm gonna not drink.
14:58
Do you like sour?
15:00
I love sour.
15:01
Do you have a version of sour in Barbados?
15:03
And we do, but it's nothing like.
15:05
Do you still use the flowers?
15:07
They try, but I don't think that it's made the same way
15:10
as hair with the ginger and the infuse.
15:12
Like you're chopping that ginger in that pot
15:14
and boiling and boiling.
15:16
Like, sorrow is a thing.
15:18
Christmas, I only love the sorrow.
15:21
I look forward.
15:22
I have it without the white rum, though, yeah.
15:24
If you're in life with a postcard,
15:25
what would the picture look like?
15:28
A beautiful sunset, too.
15:32
From a bird's eye view.
15:34
Very cool.
15:35
Overlooking the ocean.
15:38
Thank you very much.
15:39
Thank you, April.