Latest / The Bridges and Beacons Podcast / Communication, Confidence and Connection with Joey Natale

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Communication, Confidence and Connection with Joey Natale · The Bridges and Beacons Podcast

• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Mystic Nerd Squad Podcast.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kelly Meyerson, here today for an amazing conversation with my friend Joey Nattel.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: We were almost not going to record because we were having a whole conversation, just the two of us, without you listener.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: But we paused our conversation, postponed, uh, to get on and record this fantastic episode.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Joey Nattel is the founder of Grow Our Light, a coaching business dedicated to empowering nerds, geeks, and IT professionals to break through self-doubt, communication breakdowns, and feeling disconnected using a data-driven coaching approach.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: With a BS in health and wellness and psychology, along with various certifications and over 10 years of coaching experience, Joey's mission is to help individuals overcome challenges and build lasting confidence, meaningful connections, and strong communication skills to thrive both personally and professionally.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here, Joey.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's a pleasure.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love so much about this, and I'm just gonna have to dissect your bio for a minute because there are a few things that are lighting me up.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, supporting nerds and geeks.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, helping people build confidence, connections, and communication skills to thrive personally and professionally.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much because I think our communication skills, I know our communication skills are super important, whether it's on the micro level with how we respond to texts and emails, or on the macro level, being able to give really meaningful presentations, speeches with other people.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I I love this topic so very much.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So do I?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know you do.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I know you do.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I want to start.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: I always love to hear from my guests.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get into this?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, how did you get into working specifically with people who identify as a nerd, a geek, or an IT professional?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'll let you answer that one first.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why does that matter to you?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Good question.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: So the short answer, I am one.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: I am one.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: I am a nerd and geek.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was uh in the IT industry for a little while before I got into coaching.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I um I just when I was when I was a boy, I grew up playing video games and watching anime and cartoons, um, and just felt really left out.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I am of the age where being a nerd and a geek was not cool.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now it is, which is great.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Super cool now.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: And uh in fact, there was a study not too long ago that Gen Z as like watches sports more, or excuse me, watches anime more than sports, which is just blows my mind, which is pretty cool.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I grew up kind of feeling like I rejeck and left out, and I always really identified with that group.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't until I went to my first anime convention where I was like, oh wow, this is like a place of belonging and a place of home for me.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, these are my people.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's obviously expanded since then, of course.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then being into the um, I tried to turn a hobby into a career, going into IT for uh professional, working at a big corporate company, and I hated it.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I hated it so much, to be honest.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, previous to that, I was going to school to be a therapy because I was always a big fan of like mental health, mental and physical health, and uh turned it down to rejected going to graduate school because I was like afraid of dead and just afraid I wasn't sure what to do.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I went into uh IT.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then the apocalypse happened in uh 2020, and I attended a seminar with Tony Robbins, and there was a particular moment that he was telling a story about when you feel like you want something more in your life, but you're not sure what that is.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like you feel like you're destined for something more, it's almost like a calling, if you will.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, that sounds familiar.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: I resonate with that.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, if you ignore that feeling, that's when you commit spiritual suicide.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you'll wake up in 20, 30 years and be like, what have I done with my life?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, that sounds like me.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't want to do that.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, what is this thing called coaching?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, it's like therapy, but just a different flavor, a different speed, and it was more my lane, more my values and stuff.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to work with I am working with nerds and geeks and IT professionals because they have a stereotype of being very poor communicators, which is something I too have desperately struggled with.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: I uh was dyslexic growing up, so reading and writing was extra hard for me.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I put my emphasis on like learning to articulate and communicate.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I excelled at that skill and got better at it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't until like when I was in college, people would say to me, like, you're pretty good at this.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, What do you mean?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: And at those moments, I was just like, it wasn't until now I'm like, how do I teach this stuff?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes when we have talents and skills, we forget that we have talents and skills because we just take it for granted.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and isn't until somebody reminds us of our awesomeness and they're like, how do you do that?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: And if you haven't meditated on that or thought about it, like, how do I do that?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: You just you take it for granted.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that is such a relatable thought that one, we can forget that something was a skill or take it for granted because it comes so easily that we think, well, that's I mean, it's gotta be that way for everybody.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: But there are certainly things that are way more challenging for us that were like, this is not in my wheelhouse.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like way outside that comfort zone.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I I love what you said about not finding the joy that you expected to find in well, I love gaming and I love anime and I love technology, so obviously I'm gonna chase that and I'm gonna find myself in a career with it, and then realizing the corporate environment was not the space in which you felt like you could thrive.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you made some pretty big pivots there, and you've got a very well-rounded background, but it sounds like that theme for you of communication has continued to kind of float up and become one of the primary things that you work on, care about, see for others, etc.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that theme carries pretty far back for me because when I was young, I was just very shy and had a lot of confidence issues.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty much all the challenges I support me with is all the things I've struggled with: self-doubt, imposter syndrome, um, not effective communication, not being able to articulate what's in my head, and certainly not being able to articulate what was in my heart and how to connect the two, right?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: And not belonging, feeling disconnected from the world.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, certainly being a nerd and geek and the type of schools that I went to and the groups I found myself in, it was just very hard to relate to a lot of people.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, when I went to college, I had um, aside from not failing, my my goals were like, how do I talk to girls and how do I make friends?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Those are my big two things.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I really practiced those things and got really good at them and found a lot of joy in them.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't know, like at the time, I was like, I wish I could just like talk to people as a career.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that was coaching.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, it's more than that, of course, but it does feel that way to me.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: And realizing, like, wow, communication is an art and a skill and a science to a certain degree.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it takes a long time to master it, of course.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you may not be ever be able to master it, but you know, I'm gonna like it's not particularly communication, but speaking more so.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: I heard a quote from um one of the speaker coaches that I really like a lot, a mentor.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, speaking and communicating is one of those skills that you'll never know you missed out on until like 20 and 30 years later, when you never practice it, learning how to speak in front of people, learning how to articulate your feelings and thoughts, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you won't know how much you missed out on it until later.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like investing or investing in yourself.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so communication is just something like I really sucked at writing.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always felt like I at the time, especially in college and grade school, felt less intelligent or could articulate myself less intelligently than through Word.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I just excel or worked on that one more, if that makes sense.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes total sense.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's also looking back in hindsight, it just it makes me feel a little sad that and I think it still happens to some extent in in schools that if you don't present with skills that are you know what they're looking for people to measure up to.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I've heard it talked about like if you measure a fish's success by how well it climbs a tree, like that it's never gonna it's never gonna measure up that certain environments aren't necessarily ones in which children can thrive.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm in no way suggesting that we completely dismantle the whole education system and start from scratch, but I hear so often from highly intelligent adults whose intelligences lie in different skill sets that they always felt like they just weren't smart enough.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: That they felt like to use your words, an imposter in in school.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it seemed so easy for everybody else, but it was so challenging for them.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um what comes to mind I want to share with you a concept I like to talk about with like um confidence.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I love somebody taught me this, and it was just so good.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to share is um, but before I dive into that, imposter syndrome is this interesting thing about not feeling good enough and worthy enough, right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so if we don't feel good enough, we may never try.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Where imposter syndrome is can be the same thing, but for some people, they keep achieving.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: And what happens is the imposter syndrome keeps growing, which is interesting.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what I also wanted to share was I love this analogy.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: So self-worth is the house analogy, is like the foundation of the house, right?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: The cornerstone, if you will.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: And a strong foundation is you can build a bigger house on it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Confidence is the house itself.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Self-esteem is the evaluation, market value of the house, if you will.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Which one goes up and down the most?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Self-esteem, right?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now you may say to yourself, no, wait a second, Joey, what happens if a house or a tree falls on your house?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, good point.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: What happens when we run into tragedies?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Heartbreak, humiliation, trauma.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, usually what we feel is a blow to our confidence is really our self-esteem, because it goes up and down.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now, yes, a house or uh excuse me, a tree might fall on your house.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: And rather than, oh, your confidence is weak, it's actually usually a sign that there are cracks in your foundation.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you get to look inward and see where do I still get to do work looking within, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: So when we fill those cracks, and you know, continuing the analogy here, um we can build a deeper, stronger foundation, thus a taller house.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so a taller, bigger, or maybe just more resilient house.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: So the tree falls on, it just bounces off or just kind of stays there, right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: More resilient to it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I like that analogy.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, having as a just funny side note, I mean, funny, not funny, but I have had a tree fall in my house a couple times.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's awful.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Two different houses.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just uh probably the the level of mature trees where I live, which always seemed like such a beautiful thing until you have a mature tree fall on your house and you're like, maybe not.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I love the analogy because I think that piece of your your self-worth when you're you have cracks, it just really shows up everywhere, doesn't it?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it doesn't really take much to knock you down a peg.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that's that's a really beautiful way of looking at it.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think anytime we do work on our self-worth, it's always really helpful in so many ways in our life.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people, a lot of my clients have always asked me, like, I've lost my confidence.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Or they say to me, like, I've lost my confidence.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: I used to be so confident in some ways.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I know exactly how that feels.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing I learned that I always challenge them, like, you've never lost your confidence.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: It never went anywhere.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a mental muscle and it may have fatigued a little bit, but what I've learned from physical activity, which I'm sure you can back me up on, is like let's just say somebody can bench press, I don't know, 300 pounds or something and they stop working out for a year.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it took them a long time to get there, but it's going to take them out, what is it, roughly half the time to get back to that same place.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: The same is true with mental muscles of resilience of rejection and also confidence like that kind of thing.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Reminding them that your greatness never went away, you just stop using it and it's become a little unfamiliar to you again.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a nicer way of saying it than like you just don't have it.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not, it's not there.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like some people, like some people are born with it, they have it, or or you just don't, and you never will.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the idea that you it's there, it's it's a muscle.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we exercise a confidence like it's a muscle and build it and make it stronger?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Short answer, do things that scare you.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously do it in bite-sized chunks.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was having a conversation recently with somebody, and they were we were talking about boundaries actually, and um what that looks like.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And they said to me, like in their romantic relationship, it was just it was just too much.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: They kind of go silent, and they're working through some challenges right now.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: But they said, like, I don't even like if I'm gonna go get like a sandwich or something, I don't like tomatoes or onions, and I never, I never, I never tell them to take it off.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like, that's a good place to start.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, that's a lot.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I know for you and where you are, it is, and that's the perfect challenge because no one's gonna die and you're not gonna get a fight.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Little things like that, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Confidence is what is it?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: If it's self-efficacy, is the belief in your abilities.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm blanking on it right now.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think confidence is just your belief in yourself, essentially.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can do the thing.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm mixing those two up right now.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: But to answer your question more directly, do things that scare you.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And like we all go to the big things, like, oh, I couldn't do that.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, what if you could do it a little bit, or what's a smaller version of it?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: One of um my speaker mentors, he always says, like, getting good at handling rejection.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people think of like for guys in particular, like, go up to a bunch of women and ask them out if they're single, of course, and get rejected a bunch.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that is crippling for a lot of people.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: So he suggested not in your hometown, but if you're on travel, go to your coffee shop and say, like, what's the chance that I could get this for free today?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it happens and you're surprised.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they'll say, like, well, if you give this review, I'll give you a free cup of coffee.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, okay.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: If that's too scary, getting outside your comfort zone of like complimenting people in the street.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: If that's too scary, just say, hello, nice day as you walk by.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Getting out of the show starts the confidence of communicating, right?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the easiest place to start with building your conferences is doing things that make you feel comfortable.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you could go all the way and just go in an improv class, jump in there.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a good spot as well because it is a safe place where everybody feels awkward, right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Those are fun that comes to mind when it comes to social confidence and communication confidence.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: That answers the question.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much because I think you you gave kind of like a nice little scaffold of, you know, you could really go for it.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: You want to build your confidence, take an improv class, which I highly recommend if if you've never done it.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's a lot of fun, and you will surprise yourself with what you come out with when you stop second guessing everything you do and say.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, go ahead.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just I love the idea of going to a coffee shop and saying what's the chance that I could get this today for free?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would never have thought of that.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's such a brilliant way to, you know, your your especially if you're someone who has really suppressed your ability to ask for what you need.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like the idea that you would be so bold as to presume that the possibility exists that you would not have to pay for your coffee and get it for free.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's a really cool move.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that one.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a good one.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna do some traveling here.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I'm gonna practice that one again.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Alternatively, for those who are too afraid to even talk at all, if you really want to do some weird thing, just walk backwards.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do odd things that are out of the norm that'll get you attention, eyes on you.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: You can go really extreme and just do yoga in public.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think that one came from Tim Ferris.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, You want to get your confidence, just go do like a public street, just start doing yoga.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: Don't say anything, just do it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, people do.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's very confident yoga out there by yourself.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, you could do it with a group that's more fun too, but like being seen, right?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's or being heard, that's kind of the thing.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: So those are some more fun ones that people don't think about outside of just speaking as well.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or or not having to see improving your confidence and your ability to speak, to self-advocate, as you know, going to the extreme of like joining your local Toastmasters.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you're terrified of public speaking, that might not be like the best.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: But just get used to speaking in general.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that's that's brilliant.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love those ideas.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: I do too.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about this imposter syndrome.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where did this come from?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it such a big thing?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And how how are we battling that?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Good question.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, depending on what modality you think of, whether it's therapy or coaching and whatnot, a lot of people say, like, all our problems come from childhood and taller parents.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Not to say that it's our problem parents' fault, per se.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: One of my mentors that I really appreciate, he said, I think you become an adult when you stop blaming your parents for everything.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think there is a little side note before I get back to answering your question, is I think there's like stages.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: And one of my coaches, they mentioned this to me, which I love so much, is like one, we're unaware of what's running us, and what's you're unaware of is running your life, whether you like it or not, good and bad, right?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: So when you become more aware of it, you might what is it the stages of grief?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's a name for it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember what it is in the moment, but it's like awareness, anger, sadness, you know.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: know, things like that.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, well, they did this to me.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: I said, well, maybe they did.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that sucks.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: It does suck.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Gotta sit in that suckage for a bit.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you then move from like maybe blaming others, the boss, the parents, the government, the weather, the tree or analogy.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: To being like, okay, this is an explanation versus an excuse.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: To not for everything I want to say, be clarify here.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes it's good enough just to have an explanation and not use it as an excuse.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: But for some things, you get to view it as being grateful for the opportunity.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's one of the last stages for many things, but not all things.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we identify these things that sometimes come from childhood because you know they're old programming, what I call them any beliefs, which I'm sure you're aware of as well, is these beliefs which are outdated ways of thinking, ways that kept us safe, ways that kept us functional in the world.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And when we get to an adulthood, they are outdated and we don't know about them.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: So whether you're if you you know if it was in the family you felt like well nobody was successful.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well who am I to be successful?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever success means, whether it's money or happy relationship or whatever it is.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you start chasing things that you want and it starts to bump up against these limiting beliefs, that's when they show up right and you I love what there's a quote by Deepaktopra that I love so much that came up just like in particular this comes up with romantic relationships andor close friendships.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like you can either fall back into old patterns and do what you've always done or you can be the pioneer and take a new adventure.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: One's way harder and scarier right and one is much more courageous to do.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god it's so true.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know the the limiting beliefs that come up the conditioning that we experience I think is is such a huge piece.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know I've had conversations with other guests about this that some of the conditioning that we have isn't even just from our family systems.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's societal it's things that are influencing us that we don't even recognize as having a part to play in our everyday lives.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah culture, society, friends, uh partners it's a lot of things you're giving me a misspoke on that but yeah it is a is a cocktail of factors if you will for sure and um when you try to seek things that you want or usually they're if they're big dreams you you're courageous enough to chase them that's why they always say like the people closest to you the ones are gonna I don't know if they like hate on you if you will that's an extreme way to put it but just like they're your biggest cheerleader until you start achieving.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you get to really big success they're like I always believed you could do it kind of thing.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I struggled with that at first because I've experienced that and gone through it a lot of ways.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like why is this?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it the people I love and care about the most that are closest to me don't always are my biggest cheerleader the whole way well when they don't get it.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um since I'm on this little tangent I'll share this little fun thing this piece if you will because if you seek to be a better communicator let's say one of the speaking courses I talk about of changing your volume something I'm working on myself learning to project and if you're used to talking like this and you're very you know soft spoken and things like that.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden you take a course and you're like I'm gonna learn how to project one you're like hi it's good to see you and you come in your friends going to be like who are what the whoa get out of here stop it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Don't I don't like that like oh yeah see you already got shut down.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't feel good it's a minute example versus communicating and they're not always supportive but sometimes when you try things like that a couple things can happen and uh one is they might have that reaction be like stop that shrink down to who you are dim your light right and they're you might say oh yeah I guess I guess you're right yeah and that's not healthy either.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Alternatively you might be like you know what screw you and you and you I'm done with you and you cut them out.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also not healthy.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right those are two obviously extremes.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: The third option is like okay hey listen I'm doing this thing if they're open to understanding and communicating of course if they're not don't mention it.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Just love them where they are but find your tribe like we talked about earlier like finding a local Toastmaster groups if it's for speaking for example or a tribe that does yoga in the park and that is still a challenge for you but you want to I don't know get out there be be healthy and stretch yourself in the same way finding your tribe because transformation happens in community and you know only you can do the thing but you don't have to do it alone.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Forgot why I brought that up but here we are I I think it's it's very organic that we got here.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the really cool thing about that that I can see from your story is that you needed the experience of being in a state of belonging to really accept and understand that there was nothing wrong with you that embracing who you are authentically as a person makes such a big difference.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when we embrace our authentic selves or we're just trying to get into a state where we feel like we're more in alignment with ourselves we get out of alignment with what people have expected from us and it throws their nervous system off which I think is often a lot of what happens we become less predictable and we all love routines predictability we like to feel safe and comfortable and so getting out of our comfort zone I mean for some people like you said just just saying hey listen I don't like tomatoes and onions on my sandwich I've actually never liked them.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't have the confidence to tell you I didn't want you to feel well you know like that seems like such a small thing but when you think about how we can make small changes and our predictability goes down and other people tend to start to backpedal and feel like okay you're changing and change is scary like you said that journey like are you gonna go on this this journey and like maybe things are going to be totally different and you don't know what to expect.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes psychological safety is where people are at you know they are yeah so I think I think it is a full circle piece there.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah little hinges swing big doors you know I think that's relevant to our conversation for sure.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you know I want to add on that piece here about some people when you go through transformation and there's this little funny meme I've seen where it's like two like one caterpillar one butterfly and the caterpillar says the butterfly you've changed and they're like you're supposed to I love that so much and the reason why and I'm gonna piggyback and translate or uh connect the two of confidence here wrote a great book called um six pillars of self-esteem by Nathaniel Bradfelder recommend it.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um most of it at least um we'll put in the show notes is they talked about this concept of like oh I I'm I don't want to work on my confidence too much because I'll be too confident.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be overconfident because I'll be arrogant that's a myth actually it's like saying I don't want to eat too healthy today because it might be too good for me.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's impossible.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: You can't as far as I know prove me wrong but like I don't believe you can eat too healthy currently so what a lot of people struggle with is this concept of like when they see somebody confident really confident that like a couple things could happen.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: They're like oh look they're so confident they're so arrogant they might say that's them actually what's happening is they're like I'm not confident and I don't like how this makes me feel because it reminds me of things that I know deep down I I don't really like about myself.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's arrogance.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: A true arrogant person is actually the least confident person you'll ever meet.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: It also falls in the category of narcissism which is a whole nother topic for another time of course but so when you start to transform and change for the better a lot of times not always but a lot of times it reminds people of I haven't done anything in my life or at least in this area or that topic and it really doesn't make me feel good it is easier to throw the stone when you're in the stands than to get in the arena and to battle the dragon right but at least you're in the arena and you may not be doing great but you're still doing it.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes yes I totally agree and I think you can probably say as as much as I can the more you do the quote unquote work whatever that work looks like building your self-worth understanding yourself accepting yourself building that awareness stretching you know using that confidence muscle I think I think a lot of it is really finding and uncovering who you truly are and just loving on yourself so big that it feels completely safe to be who you are and then it's not even about what other people think of you because you're just you're just shining your light and just being who you are.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm here for because we're not all meant to be one note and certainly belonging is important but I think belonging can also be like we can be a group of people who are just so secure in who we are that that that authenticity is what gives us a sense of belonging.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: I agree totally it makes me think of uh the golden Buddha story have you heard that one before I want to hear it go.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh sure I love this one it's really good it comes from um well how I heard it was from this great documentary called Finding Joe.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: So my mentors are in it um it's free on YouTube.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it starts off with the in the in the in the documentary but the golden Buddha story is simply once upon a time there was a monk and he was a Buddhist monk and he was meditating in front of a golden Buddha doing as monks do being his best monk self and a villager in the nearby village said the neighboring village is coming over here they're going to ransack our village we must protect the golden buddha it was a massive statue.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: He said okay yeah you're right so they do they covered in dirt and mud and all sorts of things and head to toe if the neighboring village came over ran off the current villagers time passed and some new villager was just hanging out next to this mold not knowing anything and a chunk fell off and hit him in the head and he's like what the heck was that and he looks up and he's like there'd be gold in that hill and so he's like villagers come let's unravel this this gold here so they do and the golden buddha was restored this analogy is essentially we are like the golden Buddha I like this story a lot because I struggled a couple years ago with this concept of if we are all great and amazing why do we work on ourselves why and it's not to become better because we are less than it is to remove all the work on the scars, the dirt the mud that hits us in the face through childhood all the way through adulthood to shine our light as bright as it always has been and to remind ourselves of our greatness and share with others just like you said.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: That is perfect.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: I love that so much I want to give you a moment now um to let our listener know where can they find you how can they connect with you and what do you have coming up in the near future oh yes the best way to connect with me is on Instagram grow our light is one of the best places.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Also my website if you want to check out some fun stuff but message me on Instagram grow our light and yeah that what was the question where to connect with me yeah where to connect with you and then do you have anything coming up I'm doing a local workshop is one of the most exciting things but I I've got some things in the works I might be doing some podcasting and some uh it's actually just came in today with one of my coaches we might be doing some uh webinar events kind of thing so be on the lookout for that but in the meantime feel free to check out some of the resources I have or some of the reels I have on Instagram perfect yeah yeah I love that and um listener I will keep in touch with Joey and have him give me when some of these webinars are coming up certainly if he's going to be starting a podcast we'll connect that in the show notes.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: So in the future if you're listening to this there may be a little nugget in those show notes.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to go down there and take a look and a way to go listen to Joey.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else you'd like to share with the listener?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes I'd like to give a free gift if anybody is interested um I'll send the link it's it's a page on my website but like you can just download my free ebook.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll just give that away for fun because I like it and it's cool.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I just want to share more of the world.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love that and I am a book nerd myself.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So uh anytime that an author is willing to share their work just to help people and to shine their light a little brighter I'm totally in support of that.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank you so much for this conversation.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think these themes confidence self-esteem self-worth I think we tossed them around a bit so I really appreciate that we took some time to dissect them a little bit and I want to remind the listener of that beautiful metaphor you had of the house the foundation that the self-esteem is going to fluctuate from time to time and that anytime we're working on our self-worth building our confidence we're really building our resilience and if we think of ourselves as a house we want that to grow and grow because our potential to help others is also going to grow and grow.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well said thank you perfect thank you so much Joey I look forward to hearing about what's happening next with you.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh listener I want to thank you for listening thank you for being here if you found value in this episode you learned a perfect little nugget that you're gonna take with you please share it with friends share the podcast episode get down in those show notes and connect with Joey and I want to thank you for being here thanks for having me everybody stay curious.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you soon bye for now