Latest / Luke's English Podcast / S1E19 - Sunshine State Sonar and the Missing Person Case of Michael John Olson(M4A_128K)

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S1E19 - Sunshine State Sonar and the Missing Person Case of Michael John Olson(M4A_128K) · Luke's English Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: In Tragedy, a true crime podcast, we discuss crimes that
0:04
Speaker 1: may be violent in nature. At times, we may cover homicides,
0:08
Speaker 1: missing people, and other topics that may be unsettling. Listener
0:12
Speaker 1: discretion is advised. Before we get started, we want to
0:33
Speaker 1: give a few thank yous and some updates. So first,
0:36
Speaker 1: thank you to all of our new listeners. We are
0:38
Speaker 1: so grateful that you are listening to our stories and
0:40
Speaker 1: learning more about our families. It's so important to us. Also,
0:44
Speaker 1: we know that lots of people have questions, so we're
0:47
Speaker 1: getting questions through our email through Spotify, and we are
0:51
Speaker 1: working on an episode where we answer your question, so
0:55
Speaker 1: pay tune for that that's coming up. We do have
0:57
Speaker 1: some updates, So for jod we know that the birthday
1:01
Speaker 1: celebration just happened, but it's also important for people who
1:04
Speaker 1: are local to know that there is also a vigil
1:08
Speaker 1: that is always held on the day of Jodie's homicide,
1:11
Speaker 1: which is October sixth, and it's usually at the courthouse
1:15
Speaker 1: right there in Walcolla County. So we'll get some more
1:18
Speaker 1: information from the family as we get closer to that,
1:20
Speaker 1: but you might just want to save the date for that,
1:23
Speaker 1: and you know, we want to have a lot of
1:24
Speaker 1: people there to support Gladys and Cindy and Robin and everybody. Also,
1:29
Speaker 1: some exciting stuff is going on with some other podcasters
1:33
Speaker 1: who specialize in missing persons cases. So we're currently working
1:37
Speaker 1: with some other podcasters to get some more exposure on
1:41
Speaker 1: Ian's case too. So things are happening in the background.
1:44
Speaker 1: I just want to keep you guys updated on those things.
1:46
Speaker 1: And then also we have some information and some things
1:49
Speaker 1: that are going on from law enforcement.
1:51
Speaker 2: You want to share those, Yeah, I mean, one of
1:53
Speaker 2: the things that seems to be interesting to us is
1:56
Speaker 2: as this as both of these cases have started to
1:58
Speaker 2: get additional exposure, we've noticed that congruently, that law enforcement
2:03
Speaker 2: communication has also been increasing.
2:06
Speaker 3: We've been sending a lot of.
2:07
Speaker 2: Our episodes to the Walkall County Sheriff's Office to get
2:10
Speaker 2: that exposure to help them understand that we're very interested
2:14
Speaker 2: in moving these cases forward. We've been disappointed in the
2:17
Speaker 2: past about their reactions or they're maybe more importantly their
2:20
Speaker 2: lack of reaction, But now we're starting to hear from
2:23
Speaker 2: various members of that law enforcement community, including the sheriff himself.
2:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was an exciting announcer yet, so let's just
2:33
Speaker 1: talk about what's coming up today. So today we are
2:36
Speaker 1: starting a new missing person's case and this is a
2:39
Speaker 1: collaboration with our folks from Sunshine State Sonar.
2:42
Speaker 3: Nice, let's get into it.
2:45
Speaker 1: Welcome to Tragedy, a true crime podcast.
2:48
Speaker 3: I'm Alisa and I'm Michael.
2:50
Speaker 1: And tonight we have a really fun and unique opportunity
2:53
Speaker 1: to do a collaboration with an organization you've probably heard
2:57
Speaker 1: of before, Sunshine State Sonar, and we want to welcome
3:01
Speaker 1: Mike and Shelley to the podcast.
3:05
Speaker 4: Thanks for having us.
3:06
Speaker 1: Yeh hi, guys, We're so excited to do this collaboration
3:10
Speaker 1: with you. And we are going to be covering a
3:14
Speaker 1: cold case missing person named Michael John Olsen out of
3:19
Speaker 1: West Palm Beach, Florida. So before we get into that case, Mike,
3:24
Speaker 1: if you can tell us a little bit about Sunshine
3:27
Speaker 1: State Sonar.
3:28
Speaker 5: Yes, Sunshine State Sonar is a is a private company
3:32
Speaker 5: made up of volunteers and we're a pretty small team,
3:36
Speaker 5: probably about six or seven of us, and we work
3:40
Speaker 5: cold cases, specifically cases these are vehicular missing person's cases
3:46
Speaker 5: where people went missing and their vehicles had never been recovered.
3:50
Speaker 5: We work with detectives, cold case detectives. We work with
3:53
Speaker 5: families and sometimes we work in these cases, you know,
3:59
Speaker 5: just on our own. For the most part, we usually
4:01
Speaker 5: have cooperation from at least one side, and you know,
4:05
Speaker 5: we we basically go to the area where these people
4:08
Speaker 5: were reported missing and we try to retrace their steps
4:11
Speaker 5: and you know, go back to that time when they
4:14
Speaker 5: went missing, you know, looking at the landscape, you know,
4:17
Speaker 5: what bodies of water were there at the time. You know,
4:21
Speaker 5: lots changed throughout the years, and we try to retrace
4:24
Speaker 5: their steps. We searched all the water using sonar, you know,
4:29
Speaker 5: within twenty miles of the person's last no whereabouts, so
4:32
Speaker 5: their disappearance in hopes of finding their vehicle, you know,
4:35
Speaker 5: and the goal of it is if we locate their vehicle,
4:39
Speaker 5: you know, we're hoping that we would be able to
4:42
Speaker 5: recover their remains. And so we've been doing this since
4:46
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three. We started the end of twenty twenty two,
4:49
Speaker 5: and so we're just entering our third year now and
4:54
Speaker 5: we're all good friends where we almost, like I said,
4:56
Speaker 5: a small bunch of friends that do this stuff and
4:59
Speaker 5: we love doing it. Was so passionate about you know,
5:01
Speaker 5: helping these families out and it's why we do it.
5:05
Speaker 5: And it's so we've you know, had quite a bit
5:07
Speaker 5: of success throughout these last three years. I don't think
5:10
Speaker 5: any of us thought that we would have the level
5:12
Speaker 5: of success that we did. Uh, And you know, we
5:16
Speaker 5: look forward to the future. We know the future is
5:18
Speaker 5: bright and we're just going to keep doing this. The
5:21
Speaker 5: Michael John Olson cases is one of our favorite ones
5:24
Speaker 5: to work on.
5:25
Speaker 1: So, yes, so we learned about you guys from the
5:30
Speaker 1: Ian Rodgers missing person case out of a Walcola County
5:34
Speaker 1: and we could tell from talking with Shelley and how
5:37
Speaker 1: she talks about the organization and Teresa, Ian's mom just
5:41
Speaker 1: the passion that you guys bring to the work. And
5:43
Speaker 1: so when we thought about what we wanted to do
5:45
Speaker 1: next moving forward with our work, is it's really important
5:49
Speaker 1: for us that we are not you know, we're really
5:52
Speaker 1: focusing on the victim right and telling the story and
5:55
Speaker 1: their family and those close to them and bringing that
5:59
Speaker 1: human perspective. And I can hear that that is.
6:01
Speaker 3: Really important to you as well.
6:03
Speaker 1: So we're really excited to collaborate with you all on
6:05
Speaker 1: this case. Yeah, all right, So can you give us
6:09
Speaker 1: a brief summary about Michael's disappearance.
6:13
Speaker 5: Yeah, do you want me to do it?
6:15
Speaker 4: Yes?
6:16
Speaker 5: I can do if you want so. Yeah. Michael, Michael
6:18
Speaker 5: John Olsen went missing back in December of nineteen seventy nine.
6:23
Speaker 5: He had moved. He had decided to take a year
6:26
Speaker 5: off from college move Minnesota down to West Palm Beach
6:30
Speaker 5: and got a job at the Presidential Golf Club in
6:34
Speaker 5: West Palm Beach. This is a very affluent golf club
6:37
Speaker 5: and he was there working as a you know, as
6:40
Speaker 5: a golf caddy, I believe, and he was hanging out
6:44
Speaker 5: with a lot of the other young kids are guys
6:46
Speaker 5: that were working there at the time. And one night
6:49
Speaker 5: in December, they all had a night out for drinks
6:52
Speaker 5: and decided to go to a dog track there West
6:55
Speaker 5: Palm Beach. Michael had been another guy named Jim, and
7:01
Speaker 5: they left Michael's vehicle at the parking lot to the
7:06
Speaker 5: Belbany at Baptist Church, which is just outside the dog
7:11
Speaker 5: track the kennel club. After a night out, they ended
7:15
Speaker 5: up going back to that parking lot of the Belvany
7:18
Speaker 5: of Baptist Church, where Jim says that he dropped Michael
7:21
Speaker 5: off to pick up his vehicle and Michael was never
7:26
Speaker 5: seen again after that. So Jim claims he went home
7:31
Speaker 5: and at the time, Michael, because he was so new
7:34
Speaker 5: to the area, he was actually living in a hotel.
7:38
Speaker 5: It was a Howard Johnson's hotel, which was just a
7:40
Speaker 5: few miles away. Wasn't far. Everything is in pretty close proximity,
7:45
Speaker 5: you know, between the golf club where he was working.
7:49
Speaker 5: And you know, they've never found Michael's vehicle. He had
7:51
Speaker 5: at the time. He was driving a really nice car,
7:54
Speaker 5: was a brand new nineteen seventy nine Partier Grand Prix
7:57
Speaker 5: And uh, you know, we got involved in that case
8:01
Speaker 5: about a year ago. Let Shelley continue to tell a
8:04
Speaker 5: little more about it. But I know that we've done
8:06
Speaker 5: quite a bit of work on this case, and we've
8:08
Speaker 5: we've located over forty summers vehicles in this area. Unfortunately,
8:12
Speaker 5: none of the vehicles that we found on Michael's.
8:14
Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, Sharley, did you want to go ahead
8:19
Speaker 1: and pick up on that.
8:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there was a lot of a lot
8:26
Speaker 4: of vehicles found, Like we majority of what we found
8:32
Speaker 4: was in the Southern Boulevard Canal. I think we took
8:35
Speaker 4: one day and it was like what forty two I
8:39
Speaker 4: think it was like forty two cars.
8:40
Speaker 1: Or something like that.
8:41
Speaker 4: We and we were one by one, we do like
8:44
Speaker 4: three at a time. We would put booies on them,
8:47
Speaker 4: you know, the mic, we did the scanning, the snaring,
8:50
Speaker 4: find them, drop the magnet and the booy on them,
8:53
Speaker 4: and then we would just dive them a couple at
8:55
Speaker 4: a time. And then once those were done, we knew
8:58
Speaker 4: what they were. We were tracking all the stuff. I'm
9:00
Speaker 4: keeping track of it on my phone each car, you know,
9:03
Speaker 4: make model all this stuff. And then then we keep
9:06
Speaker 4: moving and it's like three or four at a time,
9:08
Speaker 4: dive will move on. I mean it was tedious, tedious work,
9:11
Speaker 4: tedious searching. But yeah, it doesn't make sense with everything
9:17
Speaker 4: that's been searched on this case why he hasn't been
9:19
Speaker 4: found yet. We truly came into this case thinking, oh
9:22
Speaker 4: this is this is going to be a one day solve,
9:24
Speaker 4: Like this is this is We know exactly where he's
9:27
Speaker 4: going to be, you know, and we go out there,
9:30
Speaker 4: we search it, and then we just it's kept going
9:32
Speaker 4: from there and we're not done. You know, we have
9:35
Speaker 4: a map and we're always finding new locations. We compare
9:38
Speaker 4: it to historic maps, aerial maps to see what was
9:40
Speaker 4: there back then, how the land has changed. You know.
9:44
Speaker 4: The theory at this point is could he have taken
9:46
Speaker 4: a wrong turn. He was near to the area, like
9:48
Speaker 4: Mike said, he'd only been in West Palm Beach for
9:51
Speaker 4: baby two weeks and it was nighttime, brand new car
9:56
Speaker 4: had just got he'd supposedly gotten a speeding ticket on
9:59
Speaker 4: his way to Pour Lauderdale. We don't know exactly where
10:01
Speaker 4: this was, so we know he's doing pedal to the metal,
10:03
Speaker 4: this brand new car, and it just makes everybody sense.
10:07
Speaker 4: It lines up with everything we look for in these
10:09
Speaker 4: kind of cases, like for an accident situation. So at
10:16
Speaker 4: this point it's just like we're still trying to carry
10:19
Speaker 4: the torch and and expand our search area to see
10:23
Speaker 4: what we can find.
10:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear what you're saying. From a geographical perspective,
10:28
Speaker 1: what you're saying. In some of the background information I've
10:31
Speaker 1: already collected. These points are very close to each other,
10:35
Speaker 1: so I can see what you're You're saying, Hey, it's
10:37
Speaker 1: going to be somewhere in this region, and then when
10:39
Speaker 1: it's not, then you then you're saying, Okay, while it
10:42
Speaker 1: was dark they've been out. He might have gone the
10:45
Speaker 1: wrong way who knows how far he went the wrong
10:48
Speaker 1: way before he figured it out, maybe tried to turn
10:50
Speaker 1: around and get back, and then ended up in some
10:53
Speaker 1: kind of body of water.
10:55
Speaker 2: When you said things have changed from you know, then
10:58
Speaker 2: to now when it comes of water, what has changed.
11:03
Speaker 5: Yes, a lot of the lakes if you look at
11:05
Speaker 5: the maps today, a lot of these ponds and you know,
11:08
Speaker 5: small lakes that are that are there now they were
11:11
Speaker 5: not there in nineteen seventy nine. So a lot of
11:13
Speaker 5: there's a lot of new ones. So using you know,
11:16
Speaker 5: the right year maps and we do have the maps
11:18
Speaker 5: for seventy nine. Shelly's done an amazing job on that,
11:21
Speaker 5: mapping this out. She's done so much work on it.
11:24
Speaker 5: And there's probably fifty percent more water now than there
11:27
Speaker 5: was then. And then also some of these bodies of
11:30
Speaker 5: water had been filled in, you know what development going
11:32
Speaker 5: on they you know, construction, they end up filling these
11:35
Speaker 5: bodies of water in. And so you know, we hope
11:37
Speaker 5: and pray that you know, he didn't end up in
11:39
Speaker 5: one of those bodies of water, uh, you know, because
11:42
Speaker 5: if that's the case, he you know, he would most
11:44
Speaker 5: likely that would be found, but we don't think that's
11:46
Speaker 5: the case. There's still lots of water to search in
11:49
Speaker 5: that area. It's you know, it's it's Florida. It's West
11:52
Speaker 5: Palm Beach and you've got you know, bodies of water
11:55
Speaker 5: almost every intersection there.
11:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a friend of mine who lives down there,
11:59
Speaker 2: and all I remember or you know, the times I've
12:01
Speaker 2: been there, in times that we visited her, it's just water,
12:04
Speaker 2: a canal and else.
12:05
Speaker 5: Yeah, that she lived in.
12:07
Speaker 3: One of those neighborhoods. It's right on one of these canals.
12:09
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is you know, this is one of those cases.
12:12
Speaker 5: It's like just like so many o those in it,
12:15
Speaker 5: all like this, but you know, it's a fifty to
12:17
Speaker 5: fifty split. Is this an accident or is this foul play?
12:20
Speaker 5: Did something else happen to him? You know, we work
12:23
Speaker 5: these cases. I think a lot of times, you know,
12:25
Speaker 5: we're ninety percent leaning in one direction. This is just
12:29
Speaker 5: one of those cases. We can't lean in one direction.
12:33
Speaker 5: I've got caught in the middle.
12:34
Speaker 1: When I think, when you're talking about foul play, you're
12:36
Speaker 1: thinking about the newness of the vehicle, and then I
12:39
Speaker 1: also think I remember hearing something about how he had
12:43
Speaker 1: some cash on him that night. I mean, it doesn't
12:46
Speaker 1: seem like a lot of cash now, but probably seemed
12:49
Speaker 1: like more than and that he was making it pretty
12:52
Speaker 1: visible the cash.
12:54
Speaker 5: Yes, you know what, It's funny because I the picture
12:58
Speaker 5: that I have of the group of people that he
13:01
Speaker 5: was with, everybody paints a different picture. Some people think
13:04
Speaker 5: that these guys would have robbed him and killed them
13:06
Speaker 5: for his money. I'm thinking, you know, I mean, this
13:10
Speaker 5: is the Presidential Golf Club in West Palm Beach. These
13:13
Speaker 5: kids that he was hanging out with, they all came
13:16
Speaker 5: from very affluent families, families with money. You know, these
13:21
Speaker 5: are people that don't have criminal pass They're not dirt bags.
13:24
Speaker 5: And so that's the impression I get. But all the
13:27
Speaker 5: people that you know, are sort of been investigating this
13:31
Speaker 5: case feel the other feel the other way, and they
13:33
Speaker 5: think West Palm Beach was a very seedy area. There
13:36
Speaker 5: was a lot of criminal activity going on and stuff
13:40
Speaker 5: like that. You know. Obviously we weren't around West Palm
13:43
Speaker 5: Beach and that, you know, during the nineteen seventy nine.
13:46
Speaker 5: So it's like sometimes I think more of the this
13:50
Speaker 5: is an accident, you know, more than foul play. I
13:53
Speaker 5: did speak to Jim, the guy that he was last
13:57
Speaker 5: with that night, and you know, I mean I didn't
14:00
Speaker 5: get any vibes from him that set off to me.
14:03
Speaker 5: I didn't any vibes that he would have done anything
14:05
Speaker 5: to him. That's my personal opinion, but everybody feels different
14:08
Speaker 5: on the case.
14:12
Speaker 1: So while you were doing this search for Michael, what
14:14
Speaker 1: really stood out to you the most? What do you
14:17
Speaker 1: remember just like really standing out when you were down there?
14:21
Speaker 5: You know, the thing for me was the fact that
14:23
Speaker 5: once we ruled out, you know, it was really quick
14:27
Speaker 5: to rule out his route from the belvity of Baptist Church.
14:30
Speaker 5: And I think right off the bat we knew that
14:34
Speaker 5: he did not go go back to the hotel and
14:36
Speaker 5: that he had either other intentions or something else happened
14:38
Speaker 5: to him. And that is definitely a fact. So he's
14:42
Speaker 5: not between the hotel in there, and that's to me,
14:45
Speaker 5: that's something that's big. A lot of these people are
14:49
Speaker 5: right between their locations. He's not there. So now we
14:52
Speaker 5: have to think which direction did he go? North, southeast
14:55
Speaker 5: to west. He could have gone any direction from there,
14:58
Speaker 5: And you know, on fourth these old cases, they don't
15:01
Speaker 5: have cell phone ping data, there's no toll boost, there's
15:04
Speaker 5: no license plate readers, So I mean it's a guess
15:07
Speaker 5: on which direction we're gonna search next.
15:11
Speaker 1: So you spoke a little bit about Jim who was
15:15
Speaker 1: with him the night that he disappeared. And we also
15:18
Speaker 1: know that there's someone really important to this story and
15:21
Speaker 1: that that person's name is Paige. So can you tell
15:24
Speaker 1: us who Page is and what his connection is to
15:26
Speaker 1: this case.
15:27
Speaker 5: Yeah, Page is a he's a family friend and he
15:32
Speaker 5: sort of represents the family. He's a great god, he's
15:36
Speaker 5: I mean he If this case is ever saw, I
15:39
Speaker 5: always say it's gonna be because of Page. Because Page
15:42
Speaker 5: brought awareness to this case. Here we are forty something
15:45
Speaker 5: years later and Page continues to be the advocate for
15:49
Speaker 5: this family and and bring light to this case. There
15:53
Speaker 5: was so many of these older cases, we see it
15:56
Speaker 5: all the time. They die out and nobody cares anymore.
16:00
Speaker 5: But with the Michael John Olson case, this guy has
16:03
Speaker 5: been a warrior keeping this alive for this family. He
16:06
Speaker 5: represents that the family. He is the middleman contact between
16:11
Speaker 5: Michael's nieces Michael's brother. So he's always been our go
16:16
Speaker 5: to guy. He's done everything he can to investigate this
16:19
Speaker 5: case on behalf of the family himself, Like for his
16:22
Speaker 5: whole life, he's been working on this case. So I
16:26
Speaker 5: know that it would mean so much to him to
16:28
Speaker 5: see Michael found and to see this through to the end.
16:32
Speaker 5: And he's just you know, he'd be more than willing
16:34
Speaker 5: to talk to you guys and come on a podcast.
16:37
Speaker 5: He's always doing stuff to you know, to bring awareness
16:40
Speaker 5: to this case. So great, guy.
16:42
Speaker 2: What about law enforcement? Like what kind of actions of
16:45
Speaker 2: laws Forest had? Obviously this is the cold case.
16:48
Speaker 3: Is this the case that we have access to the files?
16:52
Speaker 2: I mean, what type of information do we have access
16:55
Speaker 2: to from a just from a law enforcements?
16:58
Speaker 5: You want to touch on that one, Shelley, you want me?
17:00
Speaker 4: Yeah?
17:02
Speaker 3: That opened up an interesting debate here.
17:04
Speaker 1: We know how this goes.
17:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure we can both touch on that
17:09
Speaker 4: a little bit. So I guess the first thing that
17:12
Speaker 4: I did want to throw in there the saddest, the
17:16
Speaker 4: saddest thing about this case to me is that Michael's
17:20
Speaker 4: parents passed away, both of them without ever knowing what
17:23
Speaker 4: happened to their son, and I did that just changes
17:28
Speaker 4: things and it's it's like that's just it makes it
17:31
Speaker 4: even more significant the fact that Paige is trying to
17:34
Speaker 4: see this through and and still trying to have some
17:38
Speaker 4: if we can, the family involvement things like that. But yeah,
17:42
Speaker 4: it's a it's it's sad and tragic when you think
17:45
Speaker 4: about that, because we always try to catch those cases
17:48
Speaker 4: before it happens. We have another case where the mother
17:53
Speaker 4: is elderly and we've been trying to find her daughter,
17:55
Speaker 4: and it's just it's sad when you think about that
17:57
Speaker 4: whole situation. But it's law enforcement and information and things
18:02
Speaker 4: like that. We were able to get the original police reports.
18:06
Speaker 1: For this case.
18:07
Speaker 4: I have it. It's I think it's about nineteen to
18:09
Speaker 4: twenty some pages long. They did fly helicopters over the
18:15
Speaker 4: area of West Palm Beach looking for his vehicle. As
18:19
Speaker 4: far as I know, they had proper been you know,
18:21
Speaker 4: identification information for this vehicle. So I think if it
18:25
Speaker 4: had been picked up somewhere, you know, it would have
18:28
Speaker 4: been it would have been noticed, you know what I mean.
18:30
Speaker 4: So it just goes to show you that I think
18:32
Speaker 4: if we can find the vehicle, we can find him.
18:36
Speaker 4: As far as law enforcement goes. It's I think that
18:40
Speaker 4: in the very beginning they did what they could with
18:42
Speaker 4: the resources that they had, but that was it wasn't
18:48
Speaker 4: as much, especially with the significant amount of water in
18:51
Speaker 4: that area. Cooperation with law enforcement has been kind of nil.
18:56
Speaker 4: So it's kind of a sore subject for us with
18:58
Speaker 4: West Palm Beach because you know, the county, we have
19:01
Speaker 4: a decent relationship with the county. They've always been awesome
19:05
Speaker 4: towards us. But within city limits things like that, it
19:09
Speaker 4: tends to get a little bit, a little bit more ego,
19:11
Speaker 4: a little bit more pushback on that end, and you know,
19:14
Speaker 4: kind of like what are you guys doing over here
19:16
Speaker 4: in these waters?
19:17
Speaker 1: You know?
19:19
Speaker 4: So we just roll with it. It's like we're we
19:22
Speaker 4: have we have our reason we're here, we have our goal,
19:26
Speaker 4: so we're going to do what we have to do
19:28
Speaker 4: to try to find them, regardless of whether they want
19:31
Speaker 4: us there or not.
19:33
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, I'll say this too, is like,
19:36
Speaker 5: you know, when it comes to these older cases, when
19:38
Speaker 5: when you know we work on these older cases, we
19:41
Speaker 5: always get pushed back because you know, the older cases
19:45
Speaker 5: a lot of times, you know, some of these agencies
19:47
Speaker 5: don't have cold case units, and so we know there's
19:50
Speaker 5: people being reported missing on a daily basis, and so
19:53
Speaker 5: a lot of these older cases kind of get forgotten
19:56
Speaker 5: in a way, and when we bring them up in
19:58
Speaker 5: certain areas, uh, it doesn't go over well sometimes, you know,
20:02
Speaker 5: because it's just like, you know, a lot of these
20:06
Speaker 5: agencies just they're not really they don't have the resources
20:09
Speaker 5: to work on these older cases, and and we do
20:12
Speaker 5: get pushed back because obviously we're not law enforcement, and
20:15
Speaker 5: sometimes we go into these areas and and they don't
20:19
Speaker 5: like it, you know, but you know, we do this
20:22
Speaker 5: for the families and we're going to do, you know,
20:24
Speaker 5: whatever it takes to help find whoever it is that
20:28
Speaker 5: we're looking for.
20:29
Speaker 1: So actually, I have a question that I just thought
20:32
Speaker 1: of based on what you guys were just saying and
20:35
Speaker 1: this conversation about law enforcement. Do you have to like
20:39
Speaker 1: get permits or anything or do you just take your
20:42
Speaker 1: stuff and get going, Like how does that work for
20:45
Speaker 1: you when you're.
20:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, we are searching.
20:47
Speaker 5: Yeah, we just take our stuff, we get going. We
20:50
Speaker 5: you know, Shelley draws up the game plan and on
20:53
Speaker 5: the mapping, and that's it. As soon as we get there,
20:55
Speaker 5: we hit the ground running. It's searching water. Immediately from
20:58
Speaker 5: the time we get there, diving cars, whatever it takes. Well,
21:02
Speaker 5: very aggressive with our approach on finding these people, very aggressive,
21:07
Speaker 5: and that's been a key to our success.
21:09
Speaker 1: And have you had situations where law enforcement or media
21:13
Speaker 1: or like lookie loose show up and like try to
21:16
Speaker 1: keep you from doing what you're doing or get in
21:19
Speaker 1: the way or those kinds of things.
21:21
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, it happens all the time. You know,
21:25
Speaker 5: we get police called on it sometimes. Yeah, it's you know,
21:29
Speaker 5: because you got to think about a lot of these,
21:30
Speaker 5: especially when you work in affluent communities, because you know
21:33
Speaker 5: there's homeowners associations and stuff like that, and you know
21:38
Speaker 5: you can't ask permission on every one of these places
21:41
Speaker 5: you go because nobody's going to let you in. You
21:44
Speaker 5: just got to go do it, get it done quick,
21:47
Speaker 5: you know, and try to get out of there as
21:50
Speaker 5: quick as you can.
21:51
Speaker 2: You know.
21:52
Speaker 3: Sounds like the same strategy I have when I fish. Yeah,
21:55
Speaker 3: the areas that I go and I was like, I
21:56
Speaker 3: really want to fish there? How many fish can I catch?
21:58
Speaker 3: And to the homework association runs me off.
22:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really funny.
22:07
Speaker 1: I want to go back to page for a minute.
22:09
Speaker 1: Is there anything like a revelation or something specific that
22:12
Speaker 1: really stood out to you in speaking with Page, or
22:16
Speaker 1: something that really resonated with you.
22:18
Speaker 5: I think Page feels, you know, and I don't want
22:22
Speaker 5: to speak for him, but I really believe that he's
22:26
Speaker 5: leaning to his foul play. He believes something bad happened
22:29
Speaker 5: to Michael is his I know that that's his general thought,
22:34
Speaker 5: you know. And he gets you know, he gets very
22:36
Speaker 5: frustrated and sometimes disappointed, you know, and just like us.
22:40
Speaker 5: I mean, he's got high hopes. When we're out there
22:42
Speaker 5: searching that water, you know, he's he's by the phone
22:46
Speaker 5: waiting for the answers. It's like Page, we're diving on
22:49
Speaker 5: a car here. We have a car here, and he
22:51
Speaker 5: knows that any one of those cars could be Michael's car,
22:53
Speaker 5: and this whole thing could be over within seconds. And
22:56
Speaker 5: so it's, you know, you're sitting on pins and needles.
22:59
Speaker 5: Imagine him. He's been living this case for forty something years.
23:03
Speaker 5: And so yeah, I mean he's he's, like I said,
23:07
Speaker 5: he's so passionate about this and finding and but yeah,
23:12
Speaker 5: and it seems like that's the way he's going. He's
23:14
Speaker 5: very knowledgeable about it, about it. He's got a lot
23:16
Speaker 5: of people involved as well. That you know, he talks
23:19
Speaker 5: and he's got you know, people that he's discussing the
23:22
Speaker 5: case with and stuff like that.
23:25
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have a real strong kinship with Paige,
23:29
Speaker 1: exactly what we did with Ian. You know, what we
23:32
Speaker 1: thought was going to be just a one episode discussion
23:35
Speaker 1: with Ian's mom turned out to be eight or nine
23:39
Speaker 1: podcast episodes.
23:41
Speaker 3: I think eight or nine an episode.
23:44
Speaker 1: We had so much interest in that particular case that
23:47
Speaker 1: we invited some of our listeners to a round table
23:49
Speaker 1: discussion and talked with the case, talked the case over
23:53
Speaker 1: with them and got some great things that we took
23:56
Speaker 1: back to Ian's family and some really good ideas from them.
24:00
Speaker 1: So I feel like we're gonna find that we have
24:04
Speaker 1: a lot of commonalities.
24:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, with Paige.
24:07
Speaker 1: So we're definitely speaking with Page. Are there other people
24:11
Speaker 1: that you would suggest that we reach out to.
24:15
Speaker 5: You could try Jim, You know, you could try Jim.
24:19
Speaker 5: I might have his number. Okay, he's the he's the
24:22
Speaker 5: person that he was last with that night. He spoke
24:25
Speaker 5: to me on the phone. I talked to him. I
24:27
Speaker 5: don't know if he'd be willing to go on a
24:29
Speaker 5: podcast because I think, you know, he I know that
24:33
Speaker 5: he knows a lot of people believe that he's responsible
24:37
Speaker 5: for Michael's disappearance.
24:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think.
24:40
Speaker 4: That would be anybody's general thought, though. I mean, it's
24:42
Speaker 4: like any other case when a wife goes missing, the
24:45
Speaker 4: first first person I go to look at is the
24:48
Speaker 4: spouse or the last person to see him. So it's
24:50
Speaker 4: just it's kind of a it's just a nature of
24:54
Speaker 4: having those thoughts, you know what I mean. But it's
24:57
Speaker 4: really fifty to fifty for I think a lot of
24:59
Speaker 4: us in this case, we've we've bounced back and forth,
25:01
Speaker 4: we've leaned this way, we've leaned that way. I just
25:04
Speaker 4: I feel like, in my heart personally, it makes so
25:08
Speaker 4: much sense that it would have been an accident and
25:09
Speaker 4: everything points to it. But then it's like I start
25:11
Speaker 4: second guessing that. I'm like, well, of course, because I
25:14
Speaker 4: feel like that it wouldn't be you know, because we've
25:17
Speaker 4: had so many curve balls thrown at us with some
25:19
Speaker 4: of these cases, it's wild like there's been somewhere we
25:22
Speaker 4: believe they were accident and they weren't, and then vice versa.
25:26
Speaker 4: In some cases, we were absolutely convinced that, you know,
25:29
Speaker 4: something the fairies happened to these people, and it just
25:31
Speaker 4: turned out to be a simple accident. You know, even
25:34
Speaker 4: law enforcement was convinced it was foul play, and it's
25:36
Speaker 4: like it was a simple accident. So it's like we've
25:38
Speaker 4: definitely been thrown some curve balls, and we're learning constantly
25:41
Speaker 4: with each one of these cases.
25:43
Speaker 3: Knowing it makes sense.
25:44
Speaker 2: We've had this discussion many times with both the Ian
25:47
Speaker 2: Rodgers and the Jodie Kilgore case, and people, you know,
25:50
Speaker 2: they're like, do you think it's foul play?
25:52
Speaker 3: You know with the I end, do you think it's
25:53
Speaker 3: the accident?
25:54
Speaker 2: And my comment is always the same, if we knew,
25:58
Speaker 2: we'd probably be able to find it, right. So I
26:02
Speaker 2: wish I knew the answer to that. So we can
26:03
Speaker 2: only speculate until we know the answer. And it's not
26:06
Speaker 2: likely that you know, it gives us the right direction
26:09
Speaker 2: to search, and I would suspect it's the same in
26:11
Speaker 2: this case.
26:12
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
26:13
Speaker 5: Oh yeah. No.
26:14
Speaker 4: We've taken every opportunity to we look at both angles
26:17
Speaker 4: of it, whether this was an accident or foul play.
26:19
Speaker 4: We look at both and we're like, Okay, this this
26:22
Speaker 4: this spot right here, this is more of a foul
26:25
Speaker 4: play spot. This is secluded This isn't an accident spot.
26:27
Speaker 4: This is somewhere where somebody goes to hide something, and
26:31
Speaker 4: we search those too, because we leave everything open. We're
26:33
Speaker 4: searching accident and foul play location. So it's like we
26:36
Speaker 4: don't know for sure either, so we have to keep
26:37
Speaker 4: it all on the table.
26:39
Speaker 1: Is there anything that you wanted to add that we
26:41
Speaker 1: have not asked, Something that we have forgotten about that
26:45
Speaker 1: it's important for us to know.
26:47
Speaker 5: And one of the things that you're asking, you know,
26:49
Speaker 5: sticks out to me. When I think of this case,
26:52
Speaker 5: I think of Michael being and I remember what it
26:55
Speaker 5: was like to be, you know, his age, driving a
26:57
Speaker 5: fast car. Here's the kid that's had his license less
27:00
Speaker 5: than two years. He's driving a brand new car, a
27:03
Speaker 5: fast car. It's not a very you know, agile car,
27:07
Speaker 5: it's a it's a Grand Prix. He already has the
27:10
Speaker 5: speeding ticket, so we know that this kid, you know,
27:13
Speaker 5: has a tendency of driving fast. Now you're mixing alcohol impossibly,
27:17
Speaker 5: we don't know. Possibly he could have taken some type
27:20
Speaker 5: of drugs. He was at a club that night. We
27:23
Speaker 5: don't know, you know, what had happened that night. I mean,
27:26
Speaker 5: he's out partying, having a good time. You know, you
27:29
Speaker 5: think of all these things, and then you think of
27:31
Speaker 5: the middle of the night. You know, one of the
27:32
Speaker 5: things all our cases have in common is that these
27:35
Speaker 5: people go missing in the middle of the night. And
27:38
Speaker 5: why is that because there's no witnesses when the car
27:40
Speaker 5: drives into the war. You never see any of these
27:43
Speaker 5: cases where someone goes missing in their vehicle in broad daylight,
27:47
Speaker 5: because somebody would see the car go into the water
27:50
Speaker 5: and sinking most you know, most of the time, probably
27:54
Speaker 5: ninety five percent of the time or so. But you know,
27:56
Speaker 5: this is this meets all the criteria of being one
28:00
Speaker 5: of our classic accident cases. In the middle of the
28:03
Speaker 5: night with no witnesses. We thought that that well, for
28:07
Speaker 5: that reason alone, we thought that we were going to
28:09
Speaker 5: find them. By now very shocking that we haven't found them.
28:13
Speaker 1: Did someone happen to I'm sure you did this. What
28:17
Speaker 1: were the weather conditions that day?
28:20
Speaker 5: They were nice, They were a little cool. I remember
28:23
Speaker 5: it was it was December, so it was it was,
28:25
Speaker 5: you know, not that cold. I don't remember what the
28:28
Speaker 5: exact temperature was, but it wasn't like freezing or anything
28:31
Speaker 5: like that. Michael could have drove around with the windows out,
28:34
Speaker 5: windows down, listen to music. I know when I was
28:37
Speaker 5: his age, I you know, I would drive around all night,
28:40
Speaker 5: you know, sometimes if I was out until two three
28:42
Speaker 5: o'clock in the morning and i'd be at work the
28:44
Speaker 5: next day. Yeah, I'd turn up the music and go
28:46
Speaker 5: for a cruise around the back roads, you know, when
28:49
Speaker 5: there's a road that goes around Clear Lake. Unfortunately, it's
28:53
Speaker 5: the city's drinking water, so we can't get into that lake.
28:57
Speaker 5: You know. We did do it with an electric trolling motor,
29:01
Speaker 5: but the problem is the vegetation so tall you need
29:03
Speaker 5: you're gonna need a magnetometer because this car could be
29:06
Speaker 5: buried in the vegetation in Clear Lake.
29:10
Speaker 3: Yeah.
29:10
Speaker 1: The reason I asked about the weather is because I
29:13
Speaker 1: am not from Florida. Michael is, and so he talks
29:16
Speaker 1: a lot about hydroplaning, you know, and when it rains
29:19
Speaker 1: in Colorado, you just you drive, it doesn't matter. But
29:22
Speaker 1: in Florida you have to be careful. You don't just go,
29:24
Speaker 1: you know, zipping off the road and hydroplaning. And so
29:27
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if it was raining that night. If you know,
29:31
Speaker 1: we're thinking about the accident. Everybody knows about that.
29:33
Speaker 5: It wasn't raining. I know that for a fact. There
29:35
Speaker 5: was no rain at one point.
29:36
Speaker 4: They did look it up, and I don't believe it
29:39
Speaker 4: was raining. No.
29:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm positive you covered all the bases. It just
29:43
Speaker 1: kind of came to me as you were talking through.
29:46
Speaker 3: Oh.
29:46
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's a good question to ask, like. That's that's
29:49
Speaker 4: why me and Mike like discussing these cases. We sit
29:52
Speaker 4: on the phone for hours sometimes going back and forth.
29:54
Speaker 4: We play off each other's ideas because he may see
29:56
Speaker 4: something on the map that I don't, or notice something
29:58
Speaker 4: and be like, hey, what about this spot? You know,
30:00
Speaker 4: vice versa with me, or just ideas or theories. So
30:03
Speaker 4: it's like you play off of each other's ideas and
30:06
Speaker 4: it's yeah it works.
30:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a body of water that you can't
30:12
Speaker 2: search effectively. That's right in the general areas. Has there
30:17
Speaker 2: been any talks or any considerations as some kind of
30:20
Speaker 2: other technology that could be used to search that area.
30:23
Speaker 5: Yeah, we need to get somebody in with a magnetometer.
30:26
Speaker 5: This area has a lot of vegetation and there's areas,
30:30
Speaker 5: you know. That's the one frustrating thing about this case
30:33
Speaker 5: is we have areas that we really need to search
30:36
Speaker 5: and we just can't get into them because like one
30:38
Speaker 5: of them is, like I said, the town drinking water.
30:41
Speaker 5: The other ones out in front of a so it's
30:43
Speaker 5: actually a federal facility. It's like a water treatment plant.
30:47
Speaker 5: And that's like right there there curve in the road.
30:50
Speaker 5: We don't know if it was fenced in back in
30:51
Speaker 5: seventy nine. You can't tell that from the images. But yeah,
30:54
Speaker 5: there's some some bodies of water that are strong possibilities
30:58
Speaker 5: and it's just a bummer can't get into them.
31:01
Speaker 1: What is that one technology that somebody brought up during
31:03
Speaker 1: the listener round table, I don't know. Light are I
31:06
Speaker 1: don't even know if that's right. We joked about this
31:08
Speaker 1: person when they brought it up in the listener round
31:10
Speaker 1: table because we've only heard it in conjunction with like
31:13
Speaker 1: some sort of what is it some conspiracy theory but pyramids.
31:17
Speaker 3: Or something talking about the pillars of the pyramids.
31:20
Speaker 5: Kind of pillar.
31:22
Speaker 1: And so I don't know about light art. It seems
31:24
Speaker 1: that it can look through ground or something like that,
31:28
Speaker 1: but it's probably like thousands of millions of billions of dollars.
31:32
Speaker 5: Yeah, we need to do something about that vegetation in
31:35
Speaker 5: there because it's you know, you think that's the largest
31:37
Speaker 5: body of water to where he went missing. And it
31:39
Speaker 5: would make so much sense that he went for a
31:41
Speaker 5: cruise because the road just wraps around the lake. It's
31:44
Speaker 5: a it will, you know, it's be a nice drive
31:46
Speaker 5: with the windows down, music cranking, young kid, I can
31:51
Speaker 5: see it, you know, I can asso see it happening.
31:53
Speaker 5: But uh, you know, can we get in there someday?
31:56
Speaker 1: That's the December in Florida instead of December and Minnesota.
32:00
Speaker 5: Yeah, December and Florida's beautiful, you knowatures, nicety, Florida gorgeous.
32:06
Speaker 1: Oh we know anything else that you have thought about
32:12
Speaker 1: that we did not have a chance to ask.
32:15
Speaker 5: I'm just trying to think, what do you think, Shelley.
32:18
Speaker 4: One thing that I did want to bring up is
32:20
Speaker 4: the so there's a little bit of there's a little
32:24
Speaker 4: bit of miscommunication or misinformation. It's I don't know if
32:28
Speaker 4: we ever got a for sure timeline of exactly when
32:31
Speaker 4: he got dropped off at that vehicle. He had to
32:33
Speaker 4: be at work at eight o'clock in the morning. Supposedly
32:35
Speaker 4: he had a very strict boss. So if we're talking
32:41
Speaker 4: one or two in the morning getting dropped off. Yeah,
32:43
Speaker 4: you get time to go back, ketch up sleep, or
32:44
Speaker 4: if you want to go for a cruise. That was
32:46
Speaker 4: one of the theories that we had. Did he go
32:48
Speaker 4: for a nighttime cruise, wanted to get on shrip and
32:52
Speaker 4: you know, pedal to the metal at you know, just
32:54
Speaker 4: for a little bit before he goes back to his hotel.
32:56
Speaker 4: But if this was like four or five o'clock in
32:58
Speaker 4: the morning, you know, most people are going to go
33:01
Speaker 4: back to their hotel, like not necessarily spend more time
33:04
Speaker 4: going for a cruise, especially if you know you got
33:05
Speaker 4: to be at work at eight o'clock in the morning.
33:07
Speaker 4: So that's one of the things that's like kind of
33:10
Speaker 4: trips us up a little bit because like, where are
33:13
Speaker 4: you going to go at that time of night besides
33:14
Speaker 4: just going for a quick cruise, you know what I mean.
33:18
Speaker 4: Because it was such a short distance between where he
33:20
Speaker 4: was supposedly dropped off in the hotel, not many accident
33:26
Speaker 4: spots between that, so it's either wrong turn or went
33:28
Speaker 4: for a cruise if it is an accident, is what
33:31
Speaker 4: we've always thought. But yeah, the timeframe of it is interesting,
33:37
Speaker 4: and there was apparently a report of a scuffle that
33:41
Speaker 4: was heard in the parking lot of the Hojo, the
33:45
Speaker 4: Howard Johnson Hotel that night. I guess the people either
33:48
Speaker 4: in the room next to Michael Johnlson or above it.
33:51
Speaker 4: I can't remember specifically which one they heard a scuffle.
33:55
Speaker 4: I don't know if they see anything. I don't know
33:57
Speaker 4: if they've reported. They just kind of blew it off.
33:59
Speaker 4: But that was something that was said, so it's like
34:03
Speaker 4: it's something else happened. But even still, it where's the car?
34:08
Speaker 3: Right? You know?
34:10
Speaker 4: I believe a key, a hotel key, is found on
34:12
Speaker 4: the parking lot, but I don't believe it was his.
34:16
Speaker 5: If it is foul play, I believe either way. Like
34:19
Speaker 5: I feel real strongly that that car is in the water,
34:22
Speaker 5: and we may someday come across it. Working another case
34:26
Speaker 5: in another county. If something did happen that night in
34:29
Speaker 5: the hotel parking lot, he got in an altercation with
34:32
Speaker 5: someone and they murdered him and took his car and
34:34
Speaker 5: you know, dumped it into a canal somewhere. I think
34:37
Speaker 5: eventually we will come across it.
34:55
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