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Difference Makers Discuss Live - Scaling New Heights: Naomi Walsh on Breaking Barriers in Accounting and Championing Sustainability · Difference Makers Podcast

• 0:08
  Sinead Donovan: Good morning, good afternoon and good evening everyone, to wherever you are tuning in from.
• 0:13
  Sinead Donovan: For this fourth episode of the Difference Makers podcast, I'm delighted to be joined with another female powerhouse.
• 0:21
  Sinead Donovan: Believe me, this series was not designed to just be female only, but the institutes are putting forward their females as the Difference Makers.
• 0:29
  Sinead Donovan: So that's great.
• 0:30
  Sinead Donovan: But I'm joined today by Naomi Walsh.
• 0:32
  Sinead Donovan: Naomi is the current vice president of Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand, CA ANZ.
• 0:38
  Sinead Donovan: She is sitting down in Hobart in Tasmania, so thousands of kilometres away from me, but I'm delighted to be talking to Naomi today.
• 0:50
  Sinead Donovan: So let's do a little bit of an introduction.
• 0:53
  Sinead Donovan: And who is Naomi?
• 0:54
  Sinead Donovan: So, as I mentioned, she's the vice president of and New Zealand.
• 0:59
  Sinead Donovan: She, in her day job, is senior industry fellow at University of Tasmania.
• 1:06
  Sinead Donovan: She focuses in her university career on business engagement, accounting employment skills and is involved in an intern programme for international accounting master's students.
• 1:19
  Sinead Donovan: So I'm looking forward to talking to her about the next gen of accountants.
• 1:24
  Sinead Donovan: She also serves on a number of Tasmanian government boards as an on-exec director and as chair of Audit, risk and Governance Committees.
• 1:34
  Sinead Donovan: So we have loads that we're going to touch on with Naomi.
• 1:38
  Sinead Donovan: So you're very welcome, naomi.
• 1:39
  Sinead Donovan: Thank you so much for joining us today.
• 1:41
  Sinead Donovan: If you could maybe fill in the gaps of everything that I've missed there and tell me a little bit about how you've got to where you are today.
• 1:51
  Naomi Walsh: Thanks, janay.
• 1:51
  Naomi Walsh: I'm happy to tell you a little bit about my journey to where I got to today.
• 1:57
  Naomi Walsh: It's been I think I would describe it as one.
• 2:01
  Naomi Walsh: That's a career that's had many pivots along the way, and I was thinking that pivot was a term that we came up with during COVID and we all pivoted.
• 2:09
  Naomi Walsh: But then I've listened to some of your other podcasts and it seems to be a bit of a theme with the people that you interview that currently we all have been having a number of pivots.
• 2:19
  Naomi Walsh: So my current role is as academic lead employability at the University of Tasmania.
• 2:25
  Naomi Walsh: As you said, I held a number of board director roles, but I have a long journey that brought me to this point of some 30 years.
• 2:35
  Naomi Walsh: So when I started out I grew up in regional Tasmania on a farm and I think that one of the things that when I started my first role as an accountant was, it was pretty clear that I actually didn't know what an accountant was.
• 2:51
  Naomi Walsh: So I started out in a really junior position and I know we'll get to talking a little bit later on about some of the diversity, but when I first started out in my role, I started out on the same day as a male in an equivalent role.
• 3:03
  Naomi Walsh: The male in the equivalent role got the title of junior accountant and I got the title of a checker.
• 3:10
  Naomi Walsh: And now a checker in that accounting firm was someone who checked the work.
• 3:16
  Naomi Walsh: So remembering it's quite a long time ago, and so I would use my calculator to check the work of others, and that was the only distinguishing point between me and the other person that was appointed.
• 3:27
  Naomi Walsh: At the same time I also got the pleasure of making coffees.
• 3:29
  Naomi Walsh: So that probably dates me a little while, and I'm going to talk a little bit about some of the learnings along the way.
• 3:35
  Naomi Walsh: And apparently I was terrible at making coffee and I was a bit shaky when I pasted it to the clients, and I think one of my learnings from that was that it's good to be not good at things at times, that so that was probably my very first learning.
• 3:50
  Naomi Walsh: I then moved to I was.
• 3:51
  Naomi Walsh: I really didn't have any confidence in myself at that point in time, but I got a lot of confidence by being recruited by another local firm and that sort of gave me that confidence, internal confidence, to say, well, you know, if someone else is looking for my skill set, then perhaps I have got something to offer and at the same time again dating myself in Australia.
• 4:13
  Naomi Walsh: Our program was called the Professional Year Programme at that time and now called Chartered Accountants and I used to look at the mainly male cohort that I worked in and how confident they were in doing that program and I thought I will never, ever be able to do that.
• 4:30
  Naomi Walsh: So I really had to prove quite a few things to myself to be able to progress in my career and I think that some of my confidence came from just proving to myself that it was actually possible.
• 4:41
  Naomi Walsh: Then my husband and I decided we would move somewhere else.
• 4:45
  Naomi Walsh: Tasmania is a very small community.
• 4:47
  Naomi Walsh: At that time everyone wanted to leave Tasmania to progress their career in a larger city and we moved to Perth in Western Australia and from that I learned that I went to a larger firm.
• 5:00
  Naomi Walsh: But probably my evaluation of that role I didn't take enough into consideration in terms of the.
• 5:07
  Naomi Walsh: You know how important culture fit was at that point in time.
• 5:10
  Naomi Walsh: It was very much a career choice to work in a particular organisation that had a particular profile and there was nothing wrong with that role, but it just probably wasn't the great fit for me.
• 5:20
  Naomi Walsh: So we moved on into smaller consultancy practices, had children, had my daughters, one in Perth and then a second.
• 5:28
  Naomi Walsh: When we moved to the UK, my husband's work took us to the UK and we made some pretty quick decisions to either come home to Tas or go to the UK and then had a fantastic three and a half years working in the UK and establishing my career as doing something completely different.
• 5:46
  Naomi Walsh: So obviously tax, the legislation was all different.
• 5:51
  Naomi Walsh: So I had to sort of recreate in that environment in the UK and had some fantastic opportunities there.
• 5:57
  Naomi Walsh: That I think again pivoting, thinking about the types of projects.
• 6:01
  Naomi Walsh: I worked in the large banking sector.
• 6:03
  Naomi Walsh: I did a project for the Olympics at that time and I did some lean work in the lean process and in the banking sector as well.
• 6:12
  Naomi Walsh: So opportunity to try some really different things.
• 6:16
  Naomi Walsh: And after that my husband decided one day that at the end of his tenure of his role we might go back to Tasmania and at that time I was really thinking I'm not sure what those career opportunities are going to be for us in Tasmania.
• 6:31
  Naomi Walsh: But we did it and I then took a role in the private sector, so working in road construction, very much not where I thought I would be.
• 6:42
  Naomi Walsh: I was very happy in my suits and heels in a corporate environment and in the road construction sector it was sort of a warehouse at the back of the back and so but I actually really enjoyed that role so much that I stayed there 13 years in the private sector.
• 6:59
  Naomi Walsh: But what that taught me is that there's opportunities everywhere.
• 7:03
  Naomi Walsh: So I was overseeing some road construction, some accreditation for quality and safety, using the skills that you obtain as an accountant to sort of bring that to different areas of work, where I oversaw the build of a small hotel, because that's what the organisation, that's what the company was doing, and so I just jumped into those opportunities to learn more from that.
• 7:30
  Naomi Walsh: And then after 13 years, including quite a few times where I thought I probably should extend myself beyond those walls a bit the university there was a role at the university.
• 7:40
  Naomi Walsh: Someone came to my office at the time that we'd just done a big due diligence in the organisation to sell the major company and I was a bit.
• 7:48
  Naomi Walsh: I was a bit fatigued by that doing a couple of years of due diligence for the sale of that company and said you know how, about you come over to the university?
• 7:57
  Naomi Walsh: We're developing some new programs.
• 7:59
  Naomi Walsh: I've heard about your skillset.
• 8:01
  Naomi Walsh: Would you like to bring those to the university?
• 8:04
  Naomi Walsh: Something that I hadn't even thought about, and I sort of looked at it on its merits and I thought, well, that might be a good thing for me to try for a short while, and that's six years ago, so that took me into the academic arena.
• 8:20
  Naomi Walsh: At the same time, while I was in the other company, I was starting to explore some board roles, particularly in the industry sector boards.
• 8:27
  Naomi Walsh: I worked in a board in the hospitality sector on the Civil Contractors Federation was their first female treasurer and board member at that time, and so I really enjoyed that governance.
• 8:41
  Naomi Walsh: So I started to explore what those governance roles might be for me, and that's sort of grown and evolved over the last five or six years as well.
• 8:50
  Naomi Walsh: That is fast.
• 8:52
  Sinead Donovan: That was a lot, wasn't it?
• 8:55
  Sinead Donovan: That was a lot.
• 8:56
  Sinead Donovan: That's what I was going to say.
• 8:56
  Sinead Donovan: That's fascinating.
• 8:57
  Sinead Donovan: I mean you said we've used the term pivot quite a lot in these podcasts and indeed we have.
• 9:02
  Sinead Donovan: But I think what it's more than just a pivot, it's reactionary, it's being able to flex and I think what you have shown there I've just jotten it down from kind of farm to trainee to travel to the UK, to construction, and you omitted to say that you actually got Telstra businesswoman of the year for the construction sector one of the years you were working there.
• 9:23
  Sinead Donovan: So obviously, whatever you do, you excel at and now into academia.
• 9:27
  Sinead Donovan: I think that's phenomenal.
• 9:29
  Sinead Donovan: And look, let's we'll touch on a number of the points, particularly the diversity point that you've raised there at the start.
• 9:36
  Sinead Donovan: I'm kind of really, really interested in that and how, hopefully, things have changed a little bit from from from when you trained.
• 9:42
  Sinead Donovan: But talk to me a little bit about, just just before we launch into your academia today, the importance of travel.
• 9:51
  Sinead Donovan: I mean you mentioned there, you know, from Taz to Perth to the UK, what do you think you learn, or did you learn much from from travel and different, different cultures and different outlooks.
• 10:05
  Naomi Walsh: Yeah, certainly a broadening of the and I have wondered about this, how you can actually achieve that without going anywhere and I'm not sure.
• 10:12
  Naomi Walsh: But I think the broadening of perspectives, you know, forming new relationships and networks where you go, that certainly, and those networks stood me well as I traveled and moved around and it's also something that I've sort of fought with me back to Tasmania.
• 10:29
  Naomi Walsh: But I think that that perspective and working in different areas of where, areas where you didn't necessarily have the, the expertise, but you had the, the grounding in those areas to be able to flex and change and and do new and different types of work in different settings.
• 10:46
  Naomi Walsh: When, when I went to the UK, I was working in a consulting business, I had three telephone numbers when I went to the UK and I sort of saved them.
• 10:57
  Naomi Walsh: I had a small child at home as well, but it was like I saved those calls up and made each of them and you know, I got work through through each of those, through the power of those networks, and it was such an opportunity to to do different types of work and work with some fantastic people.
• 11:13
  Naomi Walsh: I think that I love to to work with people that that I guess have shared values and shared enthusiasm, shared passion for having an impact and making a difference, and I think that you can find those wherever you go, wherever you travel to, to gain those connections and and do good work with people.
• 11:33
  Naomi Walsh: So I think that's yeah, I'm a very passionate Tasmanian now, as you can, as you will work out.
• 11:38
  Naomi Walsh: So I love living and working in Tasmania now and I think that that was probably a renewed passion for my home.
• 11:47
  Naomi Walsh: Having travelled away as well, you get a greater appreciation of what is on offer in your home place that you might take for granted when you're off to seek those new or broader horizons.
• 12:00
  Sinead Donovan: Yeah, look, I'm dying to hear a little bit more about what Tasmania is like, because it's a place I've never been but I'd love to hear.
• 12:05
  Sinead Donovan: But your, your your discussion there about travel and the importance of that.
• 12:09
  Sinead Donovan: With your work now, you're obviously engaged with these students very much.
• 12:14
  Sinead Donovan: The next gen, as I call them, the next gen of accountants and the next gen of leaders.
• 12:19
  Sinead Donovan: Do they have the drive, passion for travel that that maybe we did?
• 12:25
  Sinead Donovan: Or?
• 12:25
  Sinead Donovan: Or how have their, have their interests changed?
• 12:28
  Sinead Donovan: Have their, has their outlook changed?
• 12:30
  Sinead Donovan: Because, because we're the ones that need to change with them, because they are the future.
• 12:34
  Sinead Donovan: So talk to me a bit about that generation.
• 12:38
  Naomi Walsh: Yeah, I think the, I think the generation that are coming through as students now, I guess one of the things that I noticed is that they're well equipped to adapt and change.
• 12:48
  Naomi Walsh: So their, their experience so far of the world has been one where, you know, digital and technology has been a big part of their, their journey, both in their education and their lives.
• 13:01
  Naomi Walsh: And I find that some of the messaging that comes through to young people in schools at all stages is that this idea that you will have, you know, have many careers in in your lifetime, so the career that you train for may not necessarily be well, you may have like 1012 careers in your time.
• 13:22
  Naomi Walsh: And I think that some of the work that I do with students is also about helping them be adaptable and know that that's to be to be a bit more uncomfortable with uncertainty and ambiguity in what their future and what their careers might be.
• 13:38
  Naomi Walsh: But also that messaging that you know the, the grounding that you have, the technical skills and the professional skills that you develop, can be transferrable to a whole range of contexts and it's just about exploring that and working out what.
• 13:53
  Naomi Walsh: What is that good fit for you as an individual?
• 13:55
  Naomi Walsh: And that's a really important part of having a successful career.
• 14:01
  Sinead Donovan: Brilliant and tell me a little bit about the course that you teach on.
• 14:06
  Sinead Donovan: It's is a predominantly the international accounting masters or there's a whole.
• 14:11
  Sinead Donovan: There's a whole spectrum you involved in.
• 14:14
  Naomi Walsh: I have the whole range, so we have the from the Bachelor of Business, the economics, the master of professional accounting and MBA programs are some of our programs that a lot of international students are attracted to and attracted to.
• 14:30
  Naomi Walsh: Coming and living and studying in Tasmania is something that that many of them enjoy, and so some of the programs that I have I have both as academic lead employability.
• 14:41
  Naomi Walsh: It is within curriculum, so I look at industry engagement opportunities for students, which they love, but also some of those extracurricular programs that they can opt into that are very much based on developing employment skills, career skills and connecting and with industry, hearing from industry, going on internships and those sorts of things which then, particularly for the international students, learning about the differences that might exist between an Australian or Tasmanian work context and their own home country work context and and I think they learn as much, I learn as much as they learn and I love learning about the way that businesses done in their cultures so that I can then learn more about how I can help them to, you know, get work in in Tasmania and Australia through through those connections that I have.
• 15:36
  Sinead Donovan: And what are some of the cultural differences?
• 15:38
  Sinead Donovan: You see, naomi, I mean it's fascinating to me that you know we're in this virtual world.
• 15:45
  Sinead Donovan: You would think that maybe we're getting more and more aligned and more similar, but it's sounds that there still is vast differences.
• 15:52
  Sinead Donovan: What are some of the challenges or the differences and they're not necessarily challenges there, it's beauty and indifference.
• 15:59
  Sinead Donovan: And what are some of the differences that you see?
• 16:02
  Naomi Walsh: I guess it depends on the organisation, but I think in Tasmania and Australia a lot of our organisations have different formats of hierarchies in terms of where you start out in an organisation and particularly in some of the organisations I deal with, even as graduates that there's an opportunity to make an impact and get your ideas heard and be working on projects with a range of different people.
• 16:28
  Naomi Walsh: That in some other countries that process of graduating, starting your employment and progressing on a career ladder might have a different format and you know there's no, I guess, specific format.
• 16:41
  Naomi Walsh: Every organisation is different.
• 16:43
  Naomi Walsh: But I think some of the things that I find with some of the students they'll come to a meeting.
• 16:47
  Naomi Walsh: They're very surprised at some of the personal connections that we use.
• 16:52
  Naomi Walsh: In an Australian context that might be a little bit different, where it might be more of a structured business context, you don't sort of have that sort of conversation about each other's children or you know where you saw each other on the weekend and some of that comes from being a small community where a very Tasmania in particular we are a very connected community.
• 17:15
  Naomi Walsh: So for me I mean I might be on a government board with someone, I might work with someone in the university context, but I also, might, you know, be on a charity event with them or connected through Rotary.
• 17:28
  Naomi Walsh: So we have, I think the connections are a lot closer here and it is really important.
• 17:35
  Naomi Walsh: One of the things I share with the students, which can be really hard to navigate as a student, is that idea of the hidden job market and that a lot of the jobs that are filled might be through word of mouth or it might be that you know someone might say to their existing staff do you know anyone else that wants a job?
• 17:52
  Naomi Walsh: And you know, if you are living in a new community where you don't have those same connections, that can seem really challenging to you know, how do I get a job?
• 18:00
  Naomi Walsh: You know there is the advertised roles and there might be the ones that are the graduate positions that are really competitive, but there is a whole range of really interesting careers that are sort of that you need to be a little bit more creative in looking for.
• 18:13
  Naomi Walsh: So helping them to think about what that might be and how they might present themselves to be, you know, get to the top of the pile of CVs to be considered for the roles, which is really rewarding.
• 18:28
  Sinead Donovan: That's a great takeaway and if there is one takeaway for people to take from this podcast, I think that's it.
• 18:34
  Sinead Donovan: You know about the as you called it, the hidden job market, but it's really all about relationship builds and network builds, and I was smiling there when you said about the kind of the cultural piece of this kind of the social chit chat.
• 18:45
  Sinead Donovan: It's very much that in Ireland as well.
• 18:48
  Sinead Donovan: I think it comes from being maybe a small island.
• 18:50
  Sinead Donovan: You know you start the business meeting and you might be five or seven minutes into it and you've talked about, you know, the soccer match that your kids may have played together or the rest.
• 18:58
  Sinead Donovan: So it is very important but, yes, quite unique to some cultures.
• 19:04
  Sinead Donovan: Tell me a little bit about Tasmania, will you?
• 19:08
  Sinead Donovan: I mean, it fascinates me.
• 19:10
  Sinead Donovan: It's funny.
• 19:10
  Sinead Donovan: You've said a few times Australia and then you've kind of differentiated and said, but in Tasmania so it's almost like it's a little mini-republic, is it?
• 19:21
  Naomi Walsh: I think we're very proud Tasmania is a very proud of what we have here.
• 19:25
  Naomi Walsh: We have a really fantastic, you know environment to live in.
• 19:30
  Naomi Walsh: So we have a lot of bush, a lot of areas that are preserved that we can go to and, you know, hiking and those sort of adventure experiences is a really big thing in Tasmania, like a lot of places.
• 19:43
  Naomi Walsh: But we are very, very proud and I think, particularly in more recent years, we've had really excellent economic outcomes for the state and that hasn't always been the case.
• 19:53
  Naomi Walsh: We've often been the state that, when you see the all of the rankings, we have some areas of, you know, lower socioeconomic constraints for individuals.
• 20:02
  Naomi Walsh: That has been a really sort of put us at the bottom of the rankings for Australia.
• 20:07
  Naomi Walsh: So I think that we've come from that to be recognised as having some fantastic industries here and as particularly as we've moved into the more environmental focused metrics.
• 20:20
  Naomi Walsh: Then we've got a hydroelectric system in Tasmania.
• 20:24
  Naomi Walsh: We've got the clean green image that we really aspire to and it's standing us in really good stead both for the state but also for the university in being a leader in things like the climate accounting and the environmental greenhouse gas emissions measurements, and so we've got a really big focus on some of those areas which I think for students that it's a great to be able to come to Tasmania and learn in an environment where that is the case, that we've got that and we are very proud of that.
• 21:00
  Naomi Walsh: So, as you might be of Ireland, you know in any environment you become very proud of the place where you live.
• 21:08
  Sinead Donovan: You do, you do and it's lovely to hear that shining through in what you say there.
• 21:13
  Sinead Donovan: Sustainability and Sustainable Accounting, or Accounting for Sustainability, it's definitely becoming a hot not just a hot topic but a, you know, a real need for accountants at the moment globally.
• 21:25
  Sinead Donovan: Do you see that as being a particular passion of the students and where they can, you know, feel a purpose in what they do?
• 21:35
  Naomi Walsh: I think it's a really, from a career perspective, there's never been a better time to be an accountant.
• 21:41
  Naomi Walsh: I mean, there's that and there's a couple of barriers around.
• 21:44
  Naomi Walsh: You know the data and intelligence that we have to run our organisations now.
• 21:49
  Naomi Walsh: But I think the sustainability more broadly, not just climate and environment, but sustainability more generally, sustainable communities, looking at the way that the SDGs can be used to measure social impact We've got some fantastic leaders in Tasmania on the carbon accounting side of things and also around that social impact.
• 22:14
  Naomi Walsh: So measuring and for accountants, what it does is it creates a bit of a bridge between what is the traditional good at maths, became an accountant, and someone that might come through their education with a view to social purpose more broadly but can have that sort of transition into accounting.
• 22:37
  Naomi Walsh: And I think that the pathways into accounting are certainly becoming more diverse.
• 22:43
  Naomi Walsh: So it's not just the numbers, but it's being able to communicate the numbers.
• 22:48
  Naomi Walsh: It's about able to you know, take the financial numbers with other things that get measured and reported and that make a difference.
• 22:57
  Naomi Walsh: So that difference maker I think the catch of that.
• 23:04
  Naomi Walsh: I think for young people that's really attractive.
• 23:06
  Naomi Walsh: To make a difference in their world is something that they really seek to do and I think where accounting perhaps might not have been the choice that they might have made at one point.
• 23:18
  Naomi Walsh: Once they can see those relationships and those opportunities within things like a climate accounting, then that's certainly more attractive.
• 23:26
  Naomi Walsh: And we certainly see that through CAANZ as well, looking at some of the courses that are coming and how popular they are even in their first offering.
• 23:35
  Naomi Walsh: So there's certainly a thirst with young people to enter into that, into those areas.
• 23:42
  Naomi Walsh: So, and I think that some of the things that we still need to do is still sort of demystify and debunk some of the accounting myths that are there.
• 23:51
  Naomi Walsh: That has, I guess, a different perspective on accounting that might be quite outdated now, that it's not just about, like me with my calculator, adding columns and numbers all day and not really seeing the bigger picture.
• 24:06
  Naomi Walsh: I think In this era that you get to the actual impact much quicker.
• 24:12
  Naomi Walsh: You don't have to spend those years doing that manual labour that I did.
• 24:17
  Naomi Walsh: You get to sort of fast forward into what I think is the more interesting aspects of the career.
• 24:24
  Sinead Donovan: Yeah, it's fascinating, though, and I don't quite know what we need to do to change those myths, because the myths still are there despite the fact that what we do is so different.
• 24:34
  Sinead Donovan: I mean, I have two daughters of a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old, and the 15-year-old loves accounting as a subject in school.
• 24:41
  Sinead Donovan: But she came home the other day and she said you know, it's really annoying Mum, because the teachers keep on referring to accountants being boring.
• 24:47
  Sinead Donovan: And I was like what, what and you know, but she was kind of standing up for the profession.
• 24:52
  Sinead Donovan: But I mean, there's just this unconscious bias, or even a conscious bias, being being being sold.
• 24:58
  Sinead Donovan: So, yeah, we're not boring, we're definitely not all the way to the next, it's funny.
• 25:03
  Naomi Walsh: It's funny you mentioned that because I've also got daughters in the 18 and 21 and the 18-year-old has just had her first days of doing an accounting degree.
• 25:12
  Naomi Walsh: So she's actually after many, many years.
• 25:15
  Naomi Walsh: My husband's an accountant as well.
• 25:16
  Naomi Walsh: After many years of not wanting to do what Mum and Dad did, she, you know, went and did a course in her college years which was about, and she did a project on running an op shop, like running a charity shop, and that was her business studies project.
• 25:32
  Naomi Walsh: And for her, that's the thing that actually, after many, many years of being quite determined not to do what Mum and Dad did, she really sparked an interest in her and she will be a fantastic accountant.
• 25:44
  Naomi Walsh: She's got you know, fantastic logic and all the aptitude of you know, communication skills and ability to logically analyse problems.
• 25:53
  Naomi Walsh: She just didn't know it and she had to get there of her own accord.
• 25:58
  Sinead Donovan: Brilliant.
• 25:58
  Sinead Donovan: So you've produced a future generation accountant.
• 26:03
  Naomi Walsh: Yeah, one accountant and one dancer.
• 26:06
  Sinead Donovan: One accountant and one dancer.
• 26:07
  Sinead Donovan: Oh my goodness, that's fascinating Fair play.
• 26:09
  Sinead Donovan: So you touched on there the differences, that, or the, I suppose, the broad spectrum that we're being asked to do as accountants now, and sustainability and data and all of that which, with that diversity of asks, I think it makes it even that more important and incumbent on us to ensure that there is, you know, a broad spectrum of entry routes into the profession.
• 26:33
  Sinead Donovan: Talk to me a little bit, naomi, about your belief in the importance of diversity and what we need to do as a profession to ensure that and the benefits that drive from that.
• 26:45
  Naomi Walsh: Yeah, this is something that I am really passionate about attracting into the profession People that might not otherwise find their own way to the profession.
• 26:53
  Naomi Walsh: And in some ways I mean I don't have you know, I don't have there was not any real barriers to why I couldn't do this job.
• 27:01
  Naomi Walsh: But I probably wasn't growing up, it wasn't necessarily where I was automatically going to land.
• 27:07
  Naomi Walsh: So I think that, for me, is thinking about and you know, we have some programs through Chudd accountants which I think are really good to plant the seed earlier in terms of the types of people that might get drawn to the profession.
• 27:20
  Naomi Walsh: So we've got some programs around financial literacy in schools.
• 27:23
  Naomi Walsh: So I think that's a one that's really important.
• 27:26
  Naomi Walsh: We've got some, you know, programs that we, the way we actually profile the types of careers in accounting, to represent those so that people can imagine themselves in those roles, because I think that people need young people need a bit of a vision about being able to see themselves in that future vision.
• 27:47
  Naomi Walsh: So I think that's a really good way to, I guess, attract a diverse range of people into the profession and I think that some of the other avenues so it might not necessarily always be just accounting degrees and I don't think I don't think it will be In Australia traditionally has been really accounting degree into accounting, into Chudd accounting, and that increasingly we're seeing some of the changes, particularly around climate, that it might be a more of a science background.
• 28:16
  Naomi Walsh: That then.
• 28:16
  Naomi Walsh: So you've got that science knowledge from background and that's going to be really valuable in teams as we go, as we move forward into accounting.
• 28:24
  Naomi Walsh: So it is going to take a lot of different profiles, a lot of different aptitudes and natural abilities to shape what is going to be the future of the profession.
• 28:36
  Naomi Walsh: I think we are a long, long way past that automatically looking at that maths ability and there will be a whole range of you think about some of the tools around AI, logic, problem solving that going to be those skills that we need to look for in young people, not necessarily just maths, which is really important.
• 28:59
  Sinead Donovan: Yeah, it is really important and it is that ability.
• 29:02
  Sinead Donovan: We're coming back full circle now to how we started the chat, but it's that ability to pivot and it's that ability to be flexible and I think it's funny.
• 29:11
  Sinead Donovan: You know, we are portrayed quite often as a profession of being, you know, quite solid, quite boring, you know kind of doing, not you and I, though.
• 29:21
  Sinead Donovan: No, no, definitely not you and I, but it's interesting, I mean, of all the people that I've talked to and you said it at the start what has been common through all the chats is the ability to change and the, you know, not being frightened of change, and I actually think that accountancy is a profession that really, you know, arms us with that and allows us to navigate that.
• 29:44
  Sinead Donovan: So, I mean, I think that's going to be huge for the next generation, the financial, Sorry.
• 29:51
  Naomi Walsh: One thing I was just going to say is one of the most important skills that I talked to students about is the communication skills and the being able to, I guess, have the technical capability as an accounting student or an accounting professional.
• 30:04
  Naomi Walsh: But unless you can communicate to that, to a range of audiences, we need to be able to communicate to everyone.
• 30:10
  Naomi Walsh: If you're going to go through an organisation that has a range, you need to be able to communicate with the marketing people to explain.
• 30:17
  Naomi Walsh: You know the numbers behind that, the financials behind that.
• 30:21
  Naomi Walsh: So I think communication skills is probably the highest level and necessary school to be able to succeed in the future of accounting careers.
• 30:30
  Sinead Donovan: Yeah, and be that communication face to face, but also, you know, virtually, and also on social media.
• 30:36
  Sinead Donovan: I do think that's something that's quite important, that we arm our students with Naomi, your current vice president, and all things going well, you will be president.
• 30:48
  Sinead Donovan: What are your aims for your year?
• 30:51
  Sinead Donovan: Have you thought that, that that through, or what do you hope to bring to your year?
• 30:55
  Naomi Walsh: Thank you, I think that for me, coming from the education perspective, that the opportunities for the attractiveness of the profession is one of the biggest priorities for me in my role on Council and on the board, and I think that that connection and understanding of the students, their experience and what they're looking for is something that we can do to unpack what that attractiveness is going to be.
• 31:24
  Naomi Walsh: Looking at other, you know the pathways.
• 31:27
  Naomi Walsh: What are those pathways to get students?
• 31:30
  Naomi Walsh: And you know that's something we're looking at, to make sure that we can, I guess, not be a barrier to entry to someone who will be a fantastic child accountant.
• 31:41
  Naomi Walsh: So making sure that we've got the pathways for them to, for people it might be someone later in their career that wants to change direction into child accounting.
• 31:50
  Naomi Walsh: So making sure that the programs can accommodate that.
• 31:55
  Naomi Walsh: I think that the actual education program is more innovative and interesting than it's ever been before.
• 32:01
  Naomi Walsh: So I think there's still opportunities to do that and you know, maybe we're not the first people to say that we've never seen change as quick as what it is at the moment.
• 32:11
  Naomi Walsh: But I think, you know, looking at the takeout of AI and some of those digital areas, I don't think we know what's going to come next.
• 32:21
  Naomi Walsh: So making sure that we're, through the education of child accountants, we are really well preparing people for the workforces of today and of the future and to be the, I guess, to make those impacts on the community.
• 32:34
  Naomi Walsh: So I think for me it's not just about you know commercial organisations, it's about the whole range of roles that accountants have and really important to know that when you have your career, that it's not just about your day job, it's about the impact that you make in the community more broadly and being that person that you know that makes a difference and contribute to a time to charity and mentors the next generation of young accountants as well.
• 33:03
  Naomi Walsh: So that's, I guess, my main area of focus Definitely, hopefully to be that to someone that people can relate to, that can hear from members about the member experience and you know what, the things that they are seeing in their worlds, and making sure that they are reflected in the way the organisation progresses into the future as well.
• 33:29
  Sinead Donovan: Well, I have no doubts.
• 33:29
  Sinead Donovan: I know you will have a huge impact, and you certainly.
• 33:32
  Sinead Donovan: From my chats with you, there's a you know you're very relatable and there's an awful lot that people can learn from you.
• 33:40
  Sinead Donovan: So thanks for that and the best of luck with your year, I think it's.
• 33:44
  Sinead Donovan: I'll be watching with a lot of interest.
• 33:47
  Sinead Donovan: Look as we begin to wrap up.
• 33:50
  Sinead Donovan: I could not leave the podcast without asking what is the background?
• 33:55
  Sinead Donovan: It's stunning the building.
• 33:59
  Naomi Walsh: Yes, that's the campus where I'm based normally Not today, I'm in Hobart, but it's the campus that we have in Launceston, so which is which is, as you can see, a very nice place to do my work.
• 34:12
  Naomi Walsh: So from there I do both my Chudbuckhounds vice presidency work mainly and with the university.
• 34:18
  Naomi Walsh: So it's a fantastic, fantastic place to work.
• 34:22
  Naomi Walsh: I feel like at this stage of when I was, I guess, putting together my proposal for putting forward as vice president, it felt like it was all coming together and all of the things that I've done, which can seem, I think, when you look over my career, at times I've had trouble explaining to other people and maybe myself how it all fits together.
• 34:45
  Naomi Walsh: When you've pivoted a number of times, you can start to feel a little bit like a generalist and sometimes that can be hard to explain and put together.
• 34:54
  Naomi Walsh: But I think that you know my work with the university, the work with Chudbuckhounds, my board director works, having those governance roles.
• 35:02
  Naomi Walsh: It all feels like it all makes sense from me now, which I'm very happy about a little bit easier to explain.
• 35:12
  Sinead Donovan: That's great.
• 35:13
  Sinead Donovan: And yeah, the board God, we haven't even touched on the board roles.
• 35:16
  Sinead Donovan: I mean, you've moved into non-exec roles and leadership roles and governance roles.
• 35:21
  Sinead Donovan: Is that something?
• 35:22
  Sinead Donovan: That is something you're obviously enjoying and, as you say, it's kind of pulling together strands of your experience to date.
• 35:29
  Naomi Walsh: Yeah, and I think I still remember.
• 35:32
  Naomi Walsh: I mean, I think I have these moments in my career where for some reason I've just landed and stayed with me.
• 35:36
  Naomi Walsh: I remember when I lived in Perth and I would have had maybe I don't know up to 10 years experience and hearing for someone who was pursuing a director career.
• 35:44
  Naomi Walsh: But even at that stage, with 10 years experience, I couldn't even imagine that being me, let alone having a leadership role with Chudbuckhounds.
• 35:51
  Naomi Walsh: But I think that the governance roles are a great way to pursue and utilise some of the experience and technical skills that I've developed over time and to take a different worldview of an organisation, to sort of have that view and think about what value you can bring to that organisation, which isn't about being on the inside and doing the, I guess, the finance role or whatever that might be, but to actually sort of step outside of that and think about what the value you bring as the director and how you can help that organisation to navigate some of the risks and opportunities that exist for it.
• 36:33
  Naomi Walsh: So that's been great.
• 36:36
  Sinead Donovan: Well, that's great.
• 36:36
  Sinead Donovan: And look, congratulations.
• 36:38
  Sinead Donovan: Look, what strikes me as I speak to you more and more is that you just speak an awful lot of common sense and with clarity and with a transparency that is needed in current leadership roles.
• 36:52
  Sinead Donovan: So I have no doubt that your year ahead of you is going to be a huge success.
• 36:58
  Sinead Donovan: I'm going to ask to leave you with the final word.
• 37:03
  Sinead Donovan: We've talked a lot about students.
• 37:06
  Sinead Donovan: We've talked a lot about the attractiveness of the profession.
• 37:09
  Sinead Donovan: Well, what I mean?
• 37:11
  Sinead Donovan: We touched on a lot of it, but the elevator pitch, Naomi, for the profession, what would your elevator pitch to the students be?
• 37:21
  Naomi Walsh: I think that my pitch to the students in particular is and young people early in their careers as well is be open to opportunities and to think about what those opportunities are and sort of evaluate them on their merits, but be prepared to take some risks as well, and that if you make a mistake it's actually okay.
• 37:43
  Naomi Walsh: You can just change direction.
• 37:44
  Naomi Walsh: Look at things on its merits and those opportunities there.
• 37:49
  Naomi Walsh: The opportunities are always there.
• 37:51
  Naomi Walsh: You've just got to be ready to, I guess, take them when they are there and be able to make that move when they present themselves.
• 37:59
  Sinead Donovan: Yeah and yeah, everyone's going to make mistakes.
• 38:02
  Sinead Donovan: You say, just kind of learn from them and move on.
• 38:05
  Sinead Donovan: In my role.
• 38:07
  Naomi Walsh: I get asked for a lot of career advice and I'm not entirely sure I'm the best person to give that, because a lot of people when they look at their career they want to see an end point or a point and then how do they get to that?
• 38:19
  Naomi Walsh: Whereas I have an approach in my career that way.
• 38:22
  Naomi Walsh: I've taken it step by step, made those decisions and pivoted in when those opportunities are being there, but there was no grand plan that saw from where I started to where I am today for sure.
• 38:37
  Sinead Donovan: And I think that's going to be ever more important in the fast changing world that we live in at the moment, that it's going to be very hard for people to have an end point that they move to, so they're going to need to be agile and keep going.
• 38:50
  Sinead Donovan: Naomi, I want to thank you sincerely.
• 38:53
  Sinead Donovan: You are, without doubt, a difference maker.
• 38:57
  Sinead Donovan: You've brought so much to the career and to everything you've done so far, and I do wish you the best of luck in your coming year.
• 39:04
  Sinead Donovan: Hopefully we'll get to cross paths, but look, thank you very much for talking to us today.
• 39:11
  Sinead Donovan: I really appreciate it.
• 39:13
  Naomi Walsh: Yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure.
• 39:14
  Naomi Walsh: I've really enjoyed it and I think I've learned some things about myself along the way.
• 39:18
  Naomi Walsh: That's great, constantly learning.
• 39:21
  Sinead Donovan: Constantly learning Listen.
• 39:22
  Sinead Donovan: Thank you very much, Naomi.
• 39:23
  Sinead Donovan: Thank you to everybody who has stayed listening with us today.
• 39:27
  Sinead Donovan: Fascinating chat, as always.
• 39:30
  Sinead Donovan: This was number four of the Difference Makers podcast.
• 39:33
  Sinead Donovan: We do have a couple more to do and I look forward to seeing you all again for the next episode.
• 39:40
  Sinead Donovan: Thanks a million.
• 39:54
  Sinead Donovan: Bye-bye.