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Classic Games · Pick Up and Deliver

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to pick up and deliver the podcast where I
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: pick up my audio recorder as I step off the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: train and deliver an episode to you while I walk home.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I'm Brendan Riley. Well, greetings, listeners. It's a gloomy, rainy
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: night here on my walk home from the train, but
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: it's just a light drizzle, and so it seems viable
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: or apt for me to have a conversation with you
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: about some board games, and that's what I'm looking to do.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Last night at Toggle Gaming, my nightly my weekly game meetup,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I played a game.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Of o wah re oh wah Rae.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: This is a Avalon hill bookshelf game from I Suspect
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the seventies that's essentially four player mancala. It has some
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: specific rules about how the moncola works, but it's twelve
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: dishes in a circle each player. If you're playing four player,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: each player gets three of the dishes as their own,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: and the idea is to try to score as many
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: pebbles as you can by dropping your pebble into the
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: right bowl. I'll talk about this game a bit more
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: in a future Board Game Espresso episode, but I thought
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: it would be interesting perhaps to spend a little bit
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: of time talking about games that I like that are,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: for lack of a better phrase, classic games. So which
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: games from the pantheon of board gaming do I enjoy
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: playing that are not in the hobby game market and
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: are older than let's say, nineteen ninety. I'm gonna draw
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety as a line there, and I'm because it's
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: drizzling a little bit, I don't want to have my
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: phone out, So I'm doing this all from memory, without notes,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: just thinking about games I enjoy playing and why I
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: enjoy them, and also why I don't or what I
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: like about them or don't like about them.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: So I thought i'd run.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I'd start run by running through the classic board games
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: that everybody knows. Chess, Checkers, Chinese Checkers. Those are the
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: three I know. I guess, so Chess is a game
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I have always enjoyed. I used to play chess a
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: lot with my dad when I was a child. He
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: taught me how to play, and he and I would
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: play occasionally.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Often when we would get.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Together a couple times a week, he would bring a
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: chess set with him and we would play a game
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: or two. Usually our pattern was that he would play one.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: We would play one game on even footing. He usually
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: beat me quite handily, and then we would play one
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: game where he would take some level of handicap, usually
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: just removing a couple pieces before we start at the beginning.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: At the beginning, I remember him removing consequential pieces, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: as we as I got better, the pieces that he
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: would remove for his candicap got narrow and narrow, until
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: eventually I won against him in this right on game.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean I always won, of course, but
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: beating him the one time was a pivotal moment for me,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: kind of highlight during that time when I was playing
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: chess with him a lot. Actually, I really liked playing chess,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: but I never studied it. As far as I know,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: my school didn't have a chess club, although it's possible
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I did. It did, and I just never looked into it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I did one year for Christmas ask for a chess clock,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: and I would often with friends we would play speed chess.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I watched the movie Searching for Bobby Fisher, which is
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: a father and son tail Maudlin as I recall, but
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I remember really liking it and being a movie I
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: watched on No.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Small number of times.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I suspect if I were to watch it now, I
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: would find it difficult to watch because it's very much
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: about fathers and sons and chess. And my father passed
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: away in twenty thirteen or two thousand and three. Oh boy,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: that's a long time ago, and so my guess is
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I would find the movie hard to watch. But Chess
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: is always a game I've enjoyed. I respect people who
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: want to give a lot of energy to it. But
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: as you know from listening to me in this podcast,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I am a magpie. I'm always chasing the shiny thing.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I like to try out new things, and it's eventually
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: just the same old table. I mean, there's a point
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: at which either you really like the ongoing regular challenge
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: of it or you don't. And it never engaged me
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: enough to reach that height. The same could be said
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: for Go, although I haven't actually played Go. So maybe
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I would play it and I would go, oh my,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: this is exactly what I want. But my guess is
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: it would be the same thing, which is that abstract
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: games in general don't provide enough creative and narrative reward
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: for me.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: The puzzle of.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Trying to defeat you in the game is only part
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: of what I enjoy about playing games, and often not
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: the most enjoyable part. I really like games where you
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: and I can work together, or we can both have
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: a sense of success. Most classic games don't really do that. Instead,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: they pit us directly against one another, and I win
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: by defeating you or you win by defeating me. There
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: is no we both have a nice time and at
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: the end of one of us wins because we got
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: more points, but we both did something fun like I mean,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Agricola is often called misery farm because of the penalties
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: involved in not successfully feeding your family, but there's something
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: really satisfying and making a good game of Agricola fly
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: along and having a nice farm at the end. The
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: thing can be said for any number of sort of
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: middle management economic euros, which ultimately tell a story rather
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: than a competition. So when I think about games like chess,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: games like go and what it would take to be
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: really good at them, it's just not in my wheelhouse,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: although I do like them. Another classic game I'm thinking
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: of its Checkers. I haven't played Checkers in a really
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: long time. I recognize that it's really good, but to
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: me Checkers feels somewhat like tic tac toe in that
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: the idea that eventually you'd get good enough at it
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: that you would solve it. There's just not enough places
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: you can go, and again, there's no story or decision
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: to be made.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: So Checkers is.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Not a game I would be interested to play again soon,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: although you know, if a family friend busted out a
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: game of Checkers, I would certainly try it. Dominoes are
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: one of those games that's always passed me by. I
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: haven't played it in quite a while, and actually, or ever,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I feel like when I was young, at some point
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: somebody had a set of Dominoes and they showed me
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: how to play, and we played once or twice, but
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: it never stuck. And I haven't played Dominoes recently, so
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I don't really understand how the game works. I know
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: you're matching sides. I think Majong is a game I
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: think it would be fun to try, but again I
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: haven't really had the opportunity. I could definitely see myself
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: enjoying Majong or Bridge or like five hundred or Uker.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: These are games that I spend a lot of time
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: in my youth playing, and I do like trick taking games.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I like the rhythm of them.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I like the passive focus that you can give them
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: that you know if you have played, like five hundred
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: is the trick taking game that I have the most
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: hours at. We played it a lot in high school
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: and a lot in college, and so the idea that
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: at any given time somebody'd grab a deck of cards
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: and four people could sit down to play some five
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: hundred it really was just part of the landscape of
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: my college now. If you haven't played before, five hundred
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: is a game sort of in the neighborhood of Bridge.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Is a trick taking game where you're bidding, but you
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: play with ten cards each, So I don't think you
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: use quite.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: The whole deck if I recall or yeah, I.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Think you do use the whole deck, but there's a blind.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: There are some cards that get put into a blind.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: It's been a really long time.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Since I've played.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I like it better than Youker, because Uker feels so
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: much just like you got dealt the lucky combination of
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: cards that can be true in five hundred as well.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: But with more tricks to play, there's a little more
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: room to maneuver, a little more.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Skill to be had.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: What little I've played of Bridge I found just as
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: fun as five hundred, except that Bridge has this whole
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: meta language of bidding that.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Frankly, I feel is stupid.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I get it, I understand that's how the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: game works, and so learning to play Contract Bridge is
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: about learning how to understand what the bidding means and
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: use it the way that most players will expect you
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: to use it. But it's always struck me. The bidding
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: system in Contract Bridge has always struck me, kind of
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: like people in Hanabi, people playing Hanabi who have a
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: set of meta signals established about if you make a
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: certain kind of clue in a certain kind of circumstance,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: that means this right, that there's a set deduction to
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: be made when you make a clue, And to me,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: that's cheating.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: And I don't know why.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I guess Bridge is just old enough and established enough,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: did everyone's agreed certain kinds of cheating are okay, which
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I find a little frustrating. Like I think Bridge would
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: be really interesting to play with a bunch of novices
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: who don't have the language of bidding already manipulated, and
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: it's just about actually bidding on the suits that you
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: have without having that bid have to have a secondary
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: language to it. But as far as trick taking games go,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed what little I got to play of it
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: pretty well.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: And I've always enjoyed five hundred.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: You know, there are other card games that haven't really
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: been so much a part of my life. Poker is
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: a game that I've played a few times. Rob my
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: design partner and Pal occasionally has had poker nights, and
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I'll go to that and I'll pay my ten bucks
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: to play, and I don't really know how the strategy
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to actually do well in it.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I just play a little bit. I'll bid here and there.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I try to do well if I think I have
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: a good hand, try to not be too obvious if
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: I'm bluffing, and kind of play that way. I think poker,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: along with backgammon, are two games that are interesting to play,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: but really only interesting to play when you have money
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: behind them. I'd say the same as is the same
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: as the case for blackjack. I've had a couple of
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: students in my board game club who will want to
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: grab a deck of cards when we have a few
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: minutes and play blackjack. But I don't understand the point
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: of playing blackjack if you're not betting. The whole point
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: of blackjack is to bet. Same with poker. If you're
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: not playing for money, it's not interesting. I mean, if
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: you're just playing for sense, it's not It's interesting because
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: there are stakes and that's what makes the game interesting.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: So now backgammon is a little different. You can play
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: backgammon just to win or not. But I feel like
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the thing that makes backhamon really interesting, and I learned
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: about this from Rich Summer on the sadly defunct Cardboard podcast,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: is the idea that if you at some point during
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: the game, you can invoke the doubling cube. And what
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: the doubling cube is is so you have a set
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: bet on the game, let's say a dollar, and if
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: you invoke the betting the doubling cube, then your opponent
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: either has to agree to double the wager of the
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: game or forfeit and pay you the current wager. So
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: essentially it's kind of a dare. You're saying, I think
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna win, I want to double the bet, and
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: then your opponent has to decide either yes, we'll double
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: the bet and maybe you'll win twice as much. Or
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: they could forfeit, but then they have to pay what
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the bet is currently. And the thing is the doubling
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: cube can be triggered several times, so you might go
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: back and forth. I think whoever triggered it last can't
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: trigger it again if I recall, so you can't just
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: keep doing the doubling cube over and over again. But
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: instead the other person could use the doubling cube. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: since backgammon is a game driven by luck, you could
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: very much have players take turns triggering the doubling cube
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: for fun and glory. So I think that is pretty
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: interesting and it's something I wouldn't mind trying. At some point,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I'd have to know how it works, and i'd have
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: to figure out how much it's worth betting, because a
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: doubling cube can get really dangerous very quickly. You know,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: if you're playing for a dollar and you trigger the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: doubling cube five times, that's two, four, eight, sixteen thirty
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: two dollars that you're bidding at the end of the
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: fifth doubling cube. And if you're playing multiple rounds of
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: blackam of backgammon, which is normally how you play it,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of money at stake, so that you know,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure whether I'd enjoy that or not, because
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I tend to not really want to play games so
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: I can win money. I want to play games so
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I can have fun, and the worry of losing the
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: money would often overrule the fun.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: It's part of why like an all night.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Poker game where you have a buy in is for
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: me an interesting and useful activity because I know what
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I'm paying at the beginning, and I'm assuming I'm not
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: going to get any of that money back. So we've
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: all agreed we're going to pitch in ten bucks. Then
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: whoever wins the money at the end wins the money.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: It probably was never going to be me, so I
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: don't expect that it will. If it is, it's a
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: nice street. I haven't really talked very many classic board games.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: There are a few that we play at our event,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: so I'll maybe hit some of those here at the end.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Stratigo fun game underrated. Haven't played it in a while,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: but absolutely would risk I don't think so. There's enough
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: other interesting war games that that game doesn't really interest
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: me much.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Access and Allies is okay.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I play it with my neighbor because he really likes it,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: and so I'm happy to play with him, especially if
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: we alternate and then I get to picking a game,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: but generally not my bag.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Rummy Hue is a good good time.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I mean again, it's the same thing every time, so
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: it's not a game I want to play a ton
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: of times.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: But works pretty well.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Scrabble is a game that's interesting, but I haven't played
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: it in a long time. I'm not sure how much
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: fun I would have if I did interesting puzzle the
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: question of playing scrabble. Huh. Hadn't really figured out the
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: answer to that interesting puzzle, but it's worth pondering. I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: do like other word creation games, so Scrabble might fit that.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Yachtzi is a game I would happily play. I haven't
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: played it in a long time, but I suspect it
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: holds up as a moderately fun role and righte game
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: and optly no thank you. The grind of that game
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: is just too much, even if you're playing by the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: proper rules, and I don't think it's fun.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: To steal everybody's money.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Clue I like fine, although I think the movement mechanism
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: is dumb. I've heard that Sid Sax and sleuth is
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: a solution to Clue. It's the same thing, but without
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: the movement, and in which case I might be I.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Might enjoy it.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: So do you really like Martin Wallace is PI? That's
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the game I've had my eye on as a used
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: game for a while, and now I just haven't found
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: it at a moderate price. Well that's my rumination, unguided
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: and unprompted and without notes on some classic games. What
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: classic games do you really like? Which ones do you
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: think I should return to and revisit? Head over to
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: board game geek Yield three two sixty nine and let
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: me know your thoughts. Thanks for joining me on my
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: walk today.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: I hope your next walkusant as mine was bye bye.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Ooh.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Looks like my copy of might be My copy of
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the newest expansion for Obsession has arrived.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: M HM.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Brought to you by Rattle Box