Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / The Power of Social Media in the Dance World

Transcript

The Power of Social Media in the Dance World · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Each week, we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Social media has become a huge part of our lives, from connecting to family and friends to promoting your business.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: As dancers, social media can be a tool for learning as well as finding employment.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: On today's episode of Making the Impact, we chat with IDA judges Hilary Zabinsky and Kelly Kramer about the positives and negatives of using social media in the dance world.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everyone, this is Courtney Ortiz, your host from Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, podcast listeners.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: And today we are talking about social media in the dance world.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we have two awesome IDA judges joining us today, Kelly and Hillary.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very excited to chat about this topic.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely a hot one, and we have a lot of things that we want to talk about.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: So before we jump into that, we always want to say thank you to everyone who's been listening throughout the past few months.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: We've had so much fun doing this podcast.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone who has subscribed, who has left a review.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And speaking of reviews, we have some good ones.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have some great ones, Courtney.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: We are so excited.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you guys for listening and sharing your response.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's just been so overwhelming.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I love to just click on our Making the Impact podcast, you know, on the phone and scroll down and read them.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna read one today that we've gotten.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is from username C.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Vandergee4.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And they say, as a dance parent, I have trouble talking to my dancer when it comes to dance, competitions, and choreography.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So having this podcast has made me understand what judges are really looking for and how to better communicate with my daughter's teachers.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many tips that I share with my daughter when she practices outside the studio.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: It also gives me peace of mind knowing what the expectations are from the judges.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I will always be a big fan of this podcast.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes! Best review ever.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for sharing.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you haven't subscribed yet, please make sure that you do in Apple Podcast.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: We're on Spotify, we're on Google Podcasts.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Please feel free to subscribe, leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you, and share, spread the word.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Tell everybody about making the impact so even more dancers will start listening.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! So let's get right to it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to get to know these two fabulous ladies even more.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: So let's get to know Hillary first.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Hi Hilary, how you doing?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm great.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to share with the listeners a little bit about you, who you are, where you're from, any career credits you want to share, and what you're up to now?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So my name's Hilary Zbinski, born and raised in Phoenix, Arizona.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Went to college in Oklahoma, went back home, started performing in one of the like regional theaters out in Phoenix, teaching full-time.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm now the resident choreographer at said like regional theater.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I've gotten to work with like Caitlin Hopkins, who runs Texas State's program.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: We've brought her in.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: We've brought like some great Broadway people in just for like equity contracts.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would have to say, like, I love choreographing Annie.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I did 42nd Street, just all the fun shows.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then teaching littles every day.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome, Hillary.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Hillary.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Next up is Kelly.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, Kelly.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: How are you?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so good.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited to have you here.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: So feel free to share what you're up to now and who you are and your background and any career credits.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was born and raised in Florida from Tampa, Florida.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm in West Palm Beach, Florida.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: I teach tap dancing six days a week.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's my specialty.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: So always on my feet, always teaching kids from five to 18 years old.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: The coolest thing I'm doing right now is I'm getting certified from the American Tap Dance Foundation in New York City.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to go through a whole entire program, but then I'll be certified by them, which is cool, you know, because it's through people like Barbara Duffy and Brenda Buffalino and big names like that, which has been a really cool thing.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Kelly, are you doing that remotely?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually had to do seven days in New York this summer.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I was there for seven days and it was super intense.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: It started every day with three hours with Barbara, which was tough.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then that was like, you know, I learned a lot of information.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then they kind of send you off and you have like a mentor and you check in with them once a month.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's pretty cool.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad to know they offer that.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies, thank you guys for being here today.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: We are so thankful to have you, and we've got some really interesting discussion points to bring up today.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to also mention that we are pulling all of our topics from our episodes this season from previous blogs on the Making the Impact uh IDA Judges blog.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So this episode is based on a blog that we had released that was written by Marissa Stannick, who is our podcast manager.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: She wrote this blog in 2018.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Social Media in the Dance World.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to hear a little bit more from somebody else after this podcast, check it out in the show notes and visit the website.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of, I'm super excited.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is probably my I've been anticipating this podcast for a few weeks now.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because speaking of social media and blogs, Kelly, can we please talk about how much buzz your blog about tap got on social media?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Girl, crazy.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was like so cool.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: It was so exciting.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, my students, the ones, uh the picture that shows up on the, you know, when you search it or whatever, or share it, I should say.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: My students were like, oh my gosh, we're famous.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, that was they're totally famous.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: That was the coolest part for me, was the fact that they were so excited.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: But it was really cool because I feel like people don't always think of tap dancing as, you know, music, like as an instrument too.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: So there was a lot of posts that I saw that people shared where they were like such an interesting, you know, perspective.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: So it was cool to share that with everyone for sure.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so listeners, um, if you haven't yet read Kelly's blog on uh the importance of tap class and why you should be taking it, she wrote a fantastic blog that got shared over a thousand times on social media, and we were just floored by the fact that this this got so much buzz.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for your awesome writing and and I hope it continues to be shared even more.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yes, I mean that blog was very exciting to watch.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Get shared to the masses on social media land.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was probably definitely our most shared blog out of our entire existence of IDA.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we've had the blog since 2007, yeah.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we've, you know, and it was weekly.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: It has been weekly for for almost three years now.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a lot of blogs.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so the fact that this one got so much attention.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I guess my question to you is you seem to be doing social media right as a dancer, as a dance teacher.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to know what your thoughts are on like your social media journey and how you use it to your benefit.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: So it's kind of a long story, but I'll smash it together for you.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I started when I was I didn't know I wanted to teach full time and do stuff like that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I graduated from FAU with a business degree actually, and I, you know, started working for an energy drink company and I was running their marketing program.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually learned a lot about social media through them, how to market things, just mostly trial and error because it's a huge company now, but it didn't used to be.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I learned a lot about that, and then I was kind of decided I don't love this, you know, it doesn't really fuel my heart basically.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I decided to I met my husband and then I decided to teach full-time because you know it's hard to start doing that, and then I started making my page gear way more towards dance.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: It always has been a little bit, but I started to use it as my own marketing, and it actually made it really easy to get jobs as crazy as this sounds.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people hired me without ever meeting me before, which I think is nuts, but I guess it's you know, they feel like they have met me, they've seen what I teach, they've seen, you know, who I teach, where I teach, all of that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: They can see a you know, a click of a button.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: So that's really cool, I think, about social media, at least the professional aspect of it.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's I mean, you can just tell, and Kelly, I think, is speaking, you're speaking about your Instagram account, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so leading into that, Hillary, I'm curious with your social media journey being a choreographer primarily now, how do you use it to your benefit?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that the theaters that you work for are using it, you know, to their benefit or not?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or what what can we do better?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: How do I just curious about your your path?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be the first to admit I like am not the greatest at social media.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: I should be better at marketing myself, like Kelly said, but I'm really bad at it.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to get better.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been trying to post like not only like my choreography from the shows, but just also like the show flyers, as simple as that is just to get like ticket sales.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing from that standpoint, I feel as if, especially if like and we live in this world of algorithms now where if so many people share it and then it gets to more people, and not everybody on your Facebook or Instagram is gonna see everything.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I just try and share it and then like kind of braggingly have the cash shared as well, so they can be also like promote what they're in and what they're working on, but it also like helps me from the choreographer standpoint of getting my choreography out.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that we kind of are, you know, jumping right into the social media discussion about essentially like marketing yourself as a dancer or a teacher as a choreographer.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that was eventually something we were gonna discuss on the podcast.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm happy to talk about this right off the bat because it is kind of crazy how social media is like a huge factor in our careers in the dance world now.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, 10 years ago, Instagram wasn't really like the biggest thing yet.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was just kind of starting out, and Facebook's been around for how many years almost probably 20 years.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, since at least I had I had it in 2004.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So over 10 years.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and I remember the days when like you had to have a college email to join Facebook.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: I remember lying about it to get one.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: I like could not wait.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that was like part of the reason why I wanted to go to college was just so I could join Facebook.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's ridiculous to say.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Get that like.edu email.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I can sign up.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: But like it has it has completely changed how businesses run, how you know, contractors like ourselves, independent contractors, people who are self-employed, how we promote ourselves.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, Kelly, you've gotten tons of jobs from just social media.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: I feel the exact same way.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it is, it is kind of weird.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like your business card now, essentially, is what your Instagram feed is.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like companies will actually look at your social media before they say, Yes, I want to hire you to get to know you.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Not even performers or in creative industry people, I mean, just other kinds of businesses out there in general, which I think, you know, is a whole nother thing.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: People, you know, we could talk about that for days too, about how to curate, you know, properly for young people as well.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it's crazy how how the industry has has gone from I mean, we still have to pound the pavement, regardless of what we do, you know, teacher, choreographer, studio owner, professional dancer, but you can get so many jobs just from having a properly curated, you know, social media world.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that also, I think it speaks to needing to actually do the work to curate what you have out there, you know, because we are in charge of what we put out there and we have to be able to also monitor that, you know.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I Google myself pretty frequently.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I Google a lot of people pretty frequently, but you know, it's like you're in charge of of what you put out there now.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if there's something out there that I didn't place out there that somebody else did that I don't, you know, approve of in terms of that wasn't my best work or that wasn't right something I'm proud of, I think that's an important thing to to kind of put out there as well for young dancers.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are in charge of your social media.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's a big, I mean, I don't want to jump topics or anything, but I think that's a big thing, you know.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: I follow my kids, my not my kids, but my student kids on social media.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, last year the big thing on social media was Finstas, right?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Where they have like these fake Instagram accounts, and they're like, oh my God, you can't follow my Fensta, you know, and I'm like, why?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: What are you posting on there?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then we have to sit down during class time and have a discussion about what's appropriate and what's not, because they think they're just like, you know, only certain people can see that.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, no, girl, everybody can see that if they want to.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: And they were all like, what do you mean it's not private?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, nothing is private.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that was like a big thing.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that whole fence to thing is kind of dying down as far as I can tell, or maybe they just stopped telling me about it because they're like, Miss Kelly can't afford it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I just think that they don't realize now the current thing is TikTok, which you know, I just don't think that they realize a lot of the time what they're actually putting on the internet.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was the same way when I was young.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: I look back at like my Facebook like 10 years ago or you know, 12 years ago, and I'm like, oh, I need to make all these photos private like right now.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'll go on when it has the memories, the memories will pop up.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be like, oh god, I need to delete that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody should be remembering that.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think that what's kind of interesting now, and something I notice, every dancer, young and old, has an Instagram.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe, you know, young dancers don't have Facebooks yet, but everyone has an Instagram.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think everybody knows that Instagram is like the like prime space to like market yourself more than Facebook because Facebook has kind of evolved from like being like we talked about geared towards college students at first.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's what its original intention was like a college like place for everyone to connect and you know meet others, kind of like MySpace, with you remember those.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh Lord.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Love of MySpace.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're all dating ourselves.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: I know, but I love it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what Facebook was originally created for.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Then it opened up to everyone, then it kind of turned into where like younger generations and like even uh sometimes our generation doesn't really go on Facebook that often anymore.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of evolved over to like our parents' generations, and the older generation is now like primarily on Facebook, and then all of us and younger have now switched to Instagram.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's interesting how it's evolved throughout the years, but no matter what, for a marketing perspective and like advertising yourself as a dancer or a teacher or choreographer, all platforms are essential.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like you need to be out there everywhere, and you know, the content might might be structured slightly different, like you know, on Instagram, because maybe you're gearing it more towards the the kids, and then on Facebook when you're gearing it more towards the adults.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it just really depends.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I think what's interesting is that like every kid, even if like you're five years old, like has a mom-run Instagram account.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how like essential do you we feel that is?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, is it is it smart for the dance moms to like be having this active account on Instagram?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And is it is it just good to kind of just like already start marketing, you know, them these kids as dancers and getting them connected in the industry?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And like, what do you think the the per I mean I'm I'm kind of just curious, like, is it just like a fun hobby to have like this Instagram for my kid, or is it actually like no, like I'm networking connecting with people?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think I mean for at least most of the students that I teach the little ones that do have you know Instagrams that are like eight and under, let's talk like many, right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: One of them actually right now is in New York for six months, he got a contract, right?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, like that is yeah, that's pretty crazy.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know the details of how that, you know, how that went about and sure they auditioned or something.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I do think that they're able to be seen and marketed.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I I have other students that are you know 10 years old and have 20,000 followers just because they're like super talented and so people you know watch that, but they're all mom, which I think is super smart.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know every time I like congratulations or whatever, the mom is answering me, it's not the kid, right?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right, which you know is really smart because you just never know what's out there, so it kind of I feel like it's a parental choice whether or not you want to plaster your child on social media or not.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I also think that there's tasteful ways of doing it and there's untasteful ways of doing it.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: I just think it comes down to the parent, but I do think that they can network through it, and I think that the parent is the child's number one fan, too.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: So they all think that you know they just want their child to do the most that they can to keep up with everybody else, you know.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I see it on the flip side.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I see a lot of my students around that 10, 11 age trying to handle their own Instagrams, and that's just when we have those conversations, like Kelly said earlier.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, not everything's private, we shouldn't be posting this on the internet type of deal.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if it is a parent kind of handling it and almost marketing their child in a way, it can be great to lead to those contracts and business connections, but if you leave it into the kids' hands, they have no idea what they're doing and they just want the most likes at the age of 10.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's interesting.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So for my full-time job with Capezio and product testing, I don't deal a lot with, I'm not looking for models, so to speak, like for print, but I'm looking for dancers who could feasibly test shoes for me.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that means, you know, you have to be, you have to know what you're doing, you have to have technique, you have to show me that you're dancing enough per week for me to give you a shoe to say, hey, I need you to put X amount of hours into this to see how it wears.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I use a lot of Instagram.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I use Instagram almost primarily if I don't already have a connection with your studio owner, or even if I do, I am looking on Instagram to see, okay, is this, does this girl care enough about dance or this dancer care enough about dance to post about it a lot?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you, you know, sometimes if you don't, you're not posting about it.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, well, how am I supposed to know that you're dancing six hours a week in point shoes?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if if I can't see visual, you know, proof of that.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so interesting to me because it is, it's like half and half, it almost feels like some of some of the people, the younger people that I see out there, you know, it's they're really curated.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's they have so many things that they're posting.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like every single day they've got something posted and it's great.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then some people they're private.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, first of all, that's not helpful, but like I get it, you know, from a marketing perspective, for me, it's not helpful.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: But and even then, if I do follow you, it's like you've posted three things.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I think it is a per a very personal thing what you're posting on social media and how often you're posting.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, if if you're if you're interested in being a product tester for Capizio in the new New York and New Jersey area, your Instagram needs to be public and you need to show me that you're using dance shoes frequently because otherwise I really I can't use you.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right, what's the point?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's just it's interesting.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also awkward for me as somebody who, you know, stranger danger, don't answer the door to somebody you don't know to answer the phone, don't talk to strangers.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: But here I am having to direct message you on Instagram as a teenager because I have no other way of getting in to in contact with you.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like direct messaging kids, and I'm like, please have your mom email me.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like because it feels so awkward to reach out that way, but I know for a fact that is how people are getting work and that is how people are getting connected, you know.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and I've actually had a mom, a college-age student's mom, called me at my business number to verify that I was a real person, that I was a real person with a real job that was legit.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, look, ma'am, I get it.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, absolutely call me up because there are a lot of you know, sketchy scam kind of things out there when it comes to social media, which you know, maybe we should also follow up on.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how can we keep ourselves and our dancers safe on the internet?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think kind of what we kind of all just talked about.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think that maybe not a bad idea is especially for kids maybe ages 14 and younger, like to have their parents, if they if they wanna, you know, if they're pursuing dance and they love this and they want the attention of dance, then maybe have like a official account for that mom runs.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Mom run account that's monitored, that's branded properly, that showcases them their best, that mom knows what's being put out in onto the internet for their kid.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe at that point, if you know the mom allows it, the parents allow it, that the kid can have a private account that's theirs that they can have fun with their friends and like you know, do whatever they want and post what their things are with their friends.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: That way they're being marketed in the proper way to the public under mom and dad's like guidance.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then once the parents feel like they're of age two, okay, do you feel like you can take this over?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is your official account.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, look at all of the followers and connections we've made for you, pretty much, for you to grow into your your dance career, whatever it may be, then it could be like a transitional thing.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I feel like that is is a helpful tip for dancers out there because there's everyone's got an insta.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody these days.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it is, it is important.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's really interesting, Wesley, to hear that perspective because you're like, I can't see your insta, I can't see if you're a legitimate dancer if it's private.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't stalk you on social media.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And especially with something as important as point shoes.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not like you know, we we can't get that wrong in in our making of this shoe.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like it has to be right.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to test it on somebody who knows what they're doing too.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So like this is a whole nother conversation, but like you can be advanced at one studio and be a beginner at another studio.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So like I need physical evidence that you have been doing this for years, that you're being trained properly, that you're, you know, using your body in the correct way for me to be able to get the feedback that I need.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that is impossible if your Instagram is private.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: That being said, you know, we're we're talking very heavily about Instagram, but this can apply to all aspects of the social media world.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: There are definitely like instafamous dancers on Instagram.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: And all the kids follow all these insta famous dancers.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I I, you know, learn about them through the students or the dancers, and I'm like, wow, how does this person have like a hundred thousand followers?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did they get insta famous?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that's a legitimate term, insta famous.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: I call people instafamous.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's okay.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I think that is, yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're not really famous outside of Instagram, right?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, which is so mind-blowing to me.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe they've done something, you know, maybe they're on the on the way up, but they've done something right.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: They either had a viral post or they they did they did like a show and that everybody knew about it, and then they got all these followers.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And now all these kids are following these insta famous dancers.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, like, of course they're beautiful to watch and inspiring, and they the kids look up to them.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: No different than like the dance moms girls.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody looks up to the dance mom's girls because they're amazing.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And all the kids want to be them and they want to meet them.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Is it good for the kids to be have this role model that they can follow and watch on Instagram?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Or do we feel like that some of the insta-famous dancers that we see that are the same age as the kids that are following them, does that maybe inspire them to want to try things before they're ready to start working on those things?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: They're at a different level than that dancer.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what are the good and bad about the social media and some of these younger dancers who are super famous in the industry?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'll jump in saying I think it's kind of like a double-edged sword.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, we need those insta famous dancers who have all those tricks and that amazing technique to aspire like our younger students to get there, but at the same time, they're not seeing all that hard work that went in before.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, yeah, no 10-year-old's just gonna whip out Alice Accon turns the first time.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you see them on Instagram and social media and everywhere, and even dance moms, and then every 10-year-old wants to try and they get defeated within themselves because they can't do it the first time when they're seeing these other 10-year-olds.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's good in a sense that it gives kids a desire to like push forward and want to continue training to be better, but then they don't realize it's gonna take hard work, it's not gonna come overnight.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: I agree 100%.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think that the all of these, you know, insta-famous kids and and everything that's being posted is pushing kids to new limits.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody was as good as they are when I was a kid.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: So quickly, no.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: The things that I I I actually judged an insta famous child last year at a national, and the stuff that that kid was doing, I was like, how is this even happening right now?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so floored at the tricks that she was doing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I see the kids, yes, they want to, you know, do what these kids are doing, but I see more of um a backlash and a negative side from the parent perspective.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think that parents forget that it's okay for a kid like just to be a kid, and it's okay for them to be a beginner, and you don't have to have you know eight year olds at age eight to be successful.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that that's like a huge thing that's miscommunicated in the Instagram and competitive dance world.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think you could do a better job of, you know, there are a lot of really well-known and you know professional dancers that started at age 14, 15, 16, you know, and they started as beginners and they have this long great career.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: So I just always struggle explaining that to a parent because, you know, why can Susie Q do 20 pirouettes, but my child has to take this, you know, beginner jazz class or whatever it is.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that's my struggle usually.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's I you know, I'm and they may exist, I just don't know.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I would love to see some sort of progressive social media account from somebody who is showing the progress of a beginner dancer from day one to the end of the year.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and and maybe it is one of these high-level eight-year-old kids who somehow has figured out how to do eight pirouettes or has been taught very, very properly how to do eight pirouettes by that age.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, number one, from a marketing and perspective or a business owner perspective, okay, teacher who's teaching that kid, what are you doing?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: You could charge for that.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you have figured out a process and have found found the kids who are willing to devote the time, because you know, like we've been saying, there's nobody.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there may be a couple of people out there, but like nobody just says, here we go, Alice Cone turns, done, and has never danced before and they're perfect.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe one or two prodigies out there.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, what is the process?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can we see that?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Can you put it on a video?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Can there be a subscription button?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, there that's another way, it's another tool, I think, that you know, teachers out there may be able to shed some light onto what your process is, especially for dance parents who maybe don't know anything about dance.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Their kid just happens to be gifted at this, and they're sitting back here, like I was a computer science major, I don't know, I work in accounting, like I don't know what this is, you know, and and to show them too what the progress is and what it looks like, you know, from another perspective, because that's just another way we can use social media to an advantage to kind of pull back from the, oh my gosh, this kid's phenomenal.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't my kid do that?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, well, here's why.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Here's why, because this kid spends eight hours in the studio every day and is homeschooled at age eight to be able to do those eight pirouettes.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why eight is the number today, but eight's the number.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Five, six, seven, eight.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think that would actually be really helpful in almost bridging the gap, I guess, like the miscommunication.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because these I see it a lot, you know, like a kid that maybe has been dancing for four years and they dance for you know, four hours a week, or I don't know, I'm just throwing them now.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm on fours, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: But the you know, the parents like, I just wish they could do this, and uh, and I'm like, they've come so far.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what do you mean you want them to do that?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, they're doing such a good job.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the guy on Dan Seizure Networks always Richards Richard is easy else we're gonna figure it out.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: So good and shares all of that, like he's almost starting to do that, like with his little babies, he shares all that stuff, and then Kelsey always shares her progressions too, which I think you know it's almost a different path, but similar where they're like educating, you know, right, yeah, progressing children.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: I've never actually seen anybody, you know, really show the process, so that would be really interesting.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: But Julie Kay in LA loves her.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: She does a lot of that.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, but I mean, she'll even do it with her like five and six year olds.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So she kind of shows that, but it's not all like in one place.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would almost love to see that you can go to like one Instagram or one hashtag and just follow that progression of those kids from August to May or whatever it is, whatever their season is.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that that's I'm really glad that we're kind of talking about these specific teachers who are doing things right in the industry, which by the way, if if any of you teachers, Kelsey, Richard, Julie, if you guys are if you guys are listening to the podcast, please like create your method.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: And like we, I feel like all the teachers out there would love that even more.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: You guys do post your your videos, but like we want more.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody wants more.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that being said, I kind of wanted to talk about the same kind of thing when we are talking about Instagram and how you know it's helped progress the dancers in a more advanced way.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and like Kelly, you mentioned, like, dancers were not as good back when we were growing up as they are now at such a young age.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: At the same time, I feel like that some of these things are also making dancers want to try advanced steps before they're ready, like we kind of talked about.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: But also as the same applies to the teachers.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that there's a lot of teachers who are watching all these things on TV, on social media, and they're like, oh wow, I've never seen that before.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I don't know how to really make this happen, but I'm gonna try it out.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just try it out.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: If that kid can do it, my kid can do it.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, there's like we said, there's there's building, there's stepping stones in between that.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: We don't just try it out.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we also like that teacher obviously knows how to make that happen.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why we want, like, I think that for those teachers who are providing those educational like opportunities to like we would essentially, like, I've always said, I want to be a fly on the wall in some of these studios.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: When I watch, when I'm judging at a competition and I see a six-year-old come out and do four pirouettes.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: How in the world did you make that happen?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Please share with me all of your tools.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: How'd she even focus for the time?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, like six-year-olds have no focus.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: How are you getting this kid to do that?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm lucky if I get my six-year-olds in a posse, right?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let alone a peer without falling over.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's insane.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like things like that.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we I think that teachers would really love to have that source of video and educational.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it they do that at like different seminars in the like Dance Teacher Summit and like some of those different seminars throughout the summer and they have like classes like that.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: But like, why not bring that to social media so all of the teachers around the world can learn from each other a little bit more because it is such a like a progressive way of learning, and I think that it's always evolving, all of the things at competition we see.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, I I think this is such a touchy kind of subject with sharing material and knowledge versus not, because I understand we are, you know, you're a business owner.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: You need to advance your business, your bottom line, your students, sure.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, like dance is a creative, expressive, you know, give and take kind of art form.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are we not doing each other and our future students a disservice by not sharing this knowledge?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, there are so many places out there, like, you know, all of us are very lucky because we either went to school before college and had really good training, with then we maybe went to college and had really good training, and then we had really, you know, professional experiences.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: But there's places in the world where dance sh number one, dance should be accessible everywhere.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: But some people do not have the opportunities that we've had to get that training, to get that knowledge because it's a remote area, it's a low-income area, it's whatever it is.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, for the majority of the world now, thank goodness, we have access to social media.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can use that power, quote unquote, for good to share our knowledge, like why wouldn't you?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And like make some money off of it.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: And also make some money off of it.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like it is a bit business venture.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, maybe don't offer it for free, but like offer it because, you know, it is beneficial.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: But I think whatever you put on, if you share something, like let's say I was to share, you know, my beginner progressions with, you know, eight-year-olds on Dance Teacher Network, I have to be prepared that like I'm giving that information away.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's almost like not even mine anymore at that point.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to, I feel like when you're sharing, you have to like know, like you're letting go like this isn't yours anymore.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, people are gonna be like, maybe, you know, I got this from from Kelly Kramer, but you know, probably not.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: They're just gonna teach their kids.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you have to think of it as like you're doing like almost like you said, like a service to like future dancers by sharing the knowledge.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: But I do think you could charge for it too.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think especially with like thinking about tap dance in general, since we're here, you know, tap was always like historically a give and a take, and you're stealing steps, and you're, you know, it's just kind of that environment.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I always, always, anytime I go sub tap, my favorite thing to teach is Jay Fagan's paradiddle progression from one sound to eight sounds back down to one sound because it's it's something he taught me that I was like, oh, this is Jay Fagan's and I always reference him and I always go back to saying, you know, this is this is a progression that I learned from my teacher Jay Fagan.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and eventually somebody else will teach that and they will either reference him because I did, or they'll reference me.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it is that sort of communal sharing of ideas that I think is so beautiful about what we do.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, still on tap and sharing, I teach Steve Kondo's rudiments.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Nice in my tap class, but I give him credit even though I didn't necessarily take from him, my teachers did.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just that hoping that people pass on that credit where credit is due.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: And like that's an honor in itself, you know, if if your name is being passed down and down and down and down by your to your students and then their their students, you know, that's awesome.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so for for these new innovators in the dance industry who are creating these ideas and educational aspects to the younger kids, that's awesome.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, grow with that, take advantage of the fact that you're kind of changing the industry for the better in a good way.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: And like maybe they'll say, Oh, well, this was Kelsey Lacks like conditioning program that I saw on Dance Teacher now where we're gonna use that today, and then everybody everybody will remember, like, oh, that was Kelsey's.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, it was so hard.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think part of it is as I mentioned earlier, you just need to give credit where credit's due.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And people don't do that, they see it and they're like, Oh, I can do it and just easily take it into class.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my one of my good friends, Liana, she had a a bad experience on Dance Teacher Network where somebody took, she posted one of her dances, you know, it was after this season or whatever, posted one of her dances, and somebody took like six, eight counts from it and pasted it, and she and that was the last time she ever posted anything.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, like that for her was like a negative experience, but that was a different avenue.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was choreography, you know, it wasn't training material.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's it's different in those two avenues.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think I'm really glad that you mentioned that because I think that's something that we should discuss as well with social media and how it can kind of hurt us.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, I think that a lot of a lot of teachers don't want to post their dances, even though they're so proud of them and they've worked so hard and they love it and they want people to see it and share it.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's that like paranoid, well, if somebody sees this and sees this awesome lift that I created and came up with that I'm so proud of, then I bet you they're gonna steal it, you know, or something exactly like you mentioned, Kelly, like stealing like actual choreography.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, it's it's crazy.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we've seen I've seen it happen.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: I've actually even had a judge, one IDA, was judging at an event, and they wrote me after the event, and they were like, I just want to let you know that I made the competition director aware at the event, but I watched a hip hop routine that was completely identical to this music video choreography.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was like from top to bottom the exact same music video.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Might have been a different song, but the that judge was familiar with that music video and knew the choreography and recognized it immediately and was like, they completely stole that.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and and then they like won first place, you know what I mean?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and that the same applies to if teachers steal teachers' choreography and and that whole thing.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, of course, like we said, we want to be inspired by everybody, but we yeah and we want to give the credit where where we need to give it, but we also want to make sure that we're not like completely dealing and like plagiarizing.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Is that the right word?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's totally the right word.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's like there's a way to be inspired, like, you know, if you see a lift, I feel like there's always a way to do it differently.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: And it sucks that people feel like they can't put their own, you know, choreography or artistry or whatever out there.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: I usually wait until the end of the season and then I put the stuff on YouTube and stuff, but I don't put all of it either.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it it's hard because we want, like I said, we want to share our hard work.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: But like back in the day, and we've brought this up very often in the podcast throughout other episodes, it always at one point in time gets mentioned in an episode.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: But like back in the day, social media didn't exist.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like YouTube kind of came out maybe like 2005.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think sharing things has taken everything to the next level.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it's a more level playing field, if that makes sense.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: As far as, you know, knowing what's out there and what you're competing against.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Back when we were growing up, because social media didn't exist, you really, as far as when it comes to like, you know, stealing choreography or being inspired, you couldn't be inspired until you actually were at the event watching it.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was and I remember back in the day, like people would like bring their camcorders and like like try to like steal people's like and they'd obviously like get disqualified and all that stuff.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: But like now you can just go and on YouTube and type in whatever you want and type in like expressions that amazing studio wherever they're from.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's like so good.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: And like just like watch their amazing turn sequences and like learn from them.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: But you couldn't learn you couldn't do that back when we were growing up.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, oh, what are they what's that studio gonna bring at this competition?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, can't wait to see what they're doing.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh generally, you know, choreographers have a certain level of respect.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: It you know, it's I think it's less rare that people are completely, you know, stealing things from people than being inspired by them.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, I agree.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think more so than not, we're using social media and everything on YouTube and everywhere on the internet now to feel that inspiration.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: And as Kelly was saying, I feel as if more choreographers are taking that as truly just inspiration to put their own creative touch on it.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: But there are still those rare instances of just like pure stealing as opposed to like using it for your own creativity.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: If somebody does steal something that you've done, I feel like you should just be flattered by it and then move on with your life.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think you take it as you did something right and you did something cool and somebody else liked it so much that they wanted to do exactly what you did, you know, instead of just like I'm never posting anything again, be like, oh wow, they really like that and move on and post the next one.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, because it's you're never gonna be able to win that that type of battle.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: So no, and especially with you know, with what we do, it's not like a painting, you know, where it's static and it's one thing.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, this is evolving and it's gonna be different every time.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we're not yet at that point.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are some choreographers who have rep, quote unquote, that like obviously if you go to YAGP, like nobody has stolen Petipa's choreography.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: They're crediting his work and it's it's known and it's well known that you know, this is who this is.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: But these days, you know, obviously we've got some Martha Graham's, we've got some of your modern choreographers, but you know, we're not yet at the point where we have a piece of jazz choreography that's gonna be just at the competition scene where we can say, Oh, this was Gus Giordano.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, like Giordano's rep is Giordano's rep and it exists where it exists and it's nowhere else.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, I wonder if maybe in another 20, 30, 40 years, people from our generation who are choreographers, you know, are gonna have that ability to have to say, like, this is my rep, and people can go to competition and say, Well, we're doing, you know, lack.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing Kelsey Lack.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like Kelsey Lack, we love you.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully that is, you know, and that's gonna be a soft water.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: She is.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: We just had her on a podcast recently.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: So she's also an IDA judge if you didn't know.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she went to OCU.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: So but I'm actually putting on stage this season, this season, uh, Bill Robinson.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um great cool on the stage.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: So a little Bojangle stuff because um I feel like it's good for the kids to know to know that kind of stuff.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I actually did that through the American Tap Dance Foundation, they you know have the rights, so I emailed and she was like, Yeah, absolutely, whatever.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um you did the right steps, it sounds like, which is great.
• 42:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: She actually said that I didn't actually have to ask for permission because I did the teacher training thing, but I did anyways because I felt like it was good form, you know, appropriate.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I think with that stuff, you know, you have to learn it's important to learn the rep from the correct people too, not just to like learn it off of YouTube or whatever, because there's eight hundred different versions of it, you know?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: I've always wondered about that actually at competition.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are are we as teachers legally allowed to do rep?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've seen like the Chicago audition combo, like on the competition stage, and I'm kind of I have I have email proof just because I just feel like that's important because if there's a judge sitting on the tape on the piano that's like that's Bill Robinson's choreo, right?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Then I can be like, Well, I have permission from these people, and it's like okay, but I feel like you should have to do that.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, but at the same time, I've seen lots of like ballet variations where it's right, right?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I feel as if that's kind of in the similar sense where they're not necessarily getting the permission to do that variation from like sleeping beauty, but they put it on the competition stage anyways.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: And those I think it's that's just historically because it's kind of reasonable and most of this, most of those people are dead.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but yeah, when you come to the more contemporary choreographers, like I know you have to email.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: or reach out to the Fossi Verden Foundation to get permission to do any of that choreography.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, I don't know if it's like the law, but it should be that, you know, you must learn Fossi choreography in the Fosse style from somebody who is a protege because there's no other proper way to do it.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there's only a few people I think in the canon that we would we would give that much attention to, I guess.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it it kind of is gonna be interesting to see what happens, like I said, in the future, like who is gonna who's gonna be our generation of canon people that we we want to, you know, figure out.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome, y'all.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well we've had a really great discussion about social media and lots of different ways to look at social media and the good and the bad and the ugly, but we love it.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: So do you either of you have any final thoughts that you'd like to share about social media in general for dance?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's important to remember too that all of the paths you cross on social media, they all like they usually come back in a different way.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like I got my first convention job through a woman that we like crossed paths on Facebook and it was I do this, so I do this, so nice to like e meet you type thing.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, keep me in mind for any workshops and you know she said the same and then like a few years later comes back she's working for this company and she's like hey are you available to teach you know but everything you know you don't even realize that you're making those types of connections and then you know one day it just kind of happens.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: So um it's important to you know always remember that too we hope you enjoyed this week's episode all about social media in the dance world.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Head over to Instagram now to follow our guests Hillary at hsobinski and Kelly at Kelly KramerTalks.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a dance competition question you've been dying to ask a judge?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now's your chance to send us your questions.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: We might answer them on the show and give you a shout out or you can choose to remain anonymous.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Submit your questions to us on our website at www dot impactdanceadjudicators dot com slash podcast via audio or text.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: A quick shout out from one of our sponsors and IDA affiliated competitions Heidi Man Dance Competition is a boutique competition experience you don't want to miss.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: You choose your stage lighting for every entry from their nine color palettes bringing a more professional feel and energy to the stage and gives the choreographers more artistic control to see their work come to life.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Heidi Man also brings the excitement of the nationals to every regional event with improv competitions and a dance-off entertainment challenge.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: HD offers a morning warm-up class on the stage to encourage dancers to start the competition day like a professional and gives them a chance to really feel the floor.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: HD is passionate about continuing education and offers a variety of scholarship opportunities to their dancers.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: On top of it all Hide Man is committed to providing a fresh fun positive and professional competition experience for the dance community.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: For more information visit HDdancecompetition.com to see when they are coming to a city near you.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you've been enjoying the episodes on making an impact head over to Apple Podcasts now and leave us a review.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: We love hearing from all of you listeners and we may even share your review live on the air.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Coming up in the next few weeks we've got some exciting topics including performance anxiety, ballet, interviews with competition owners, and the March edition of QA with Courtney.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and tune in every Monday for new episodes.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: As always we're so happy you joined us for this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, keep dancing