Latest / LOYAL TO THE CRAFT / Zendé Murdock on The Runarounds, Prime Video, and How it Changed His Life

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Zendé Murdock on The Runarounds, Prime Video, and How it Changed His Life · LOYAL TO THE CRAFT

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, Adobe?
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Trapari with Loyal to the Craft here.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Today we have Zende Murdoch from the band The Runarounds.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: So stoked to have you on, man.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining and taking the time.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to chop it up with you, dude.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm stoked to be here.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm loving everything that's going on with Loyal to the Craft and um and I'm just I'm excited to be a part of it, man.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah, dude.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you joining us from today?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Are you on the road?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are you at home?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you at?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm at home.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm at home.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I live in Atlanta.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um small little uh suburban little town, about an hour outside the city.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, I'm just chilling here, man.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Spent a lot of the first part of the year on the road.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now I'm um taking some downtime.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Love it, man.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you're enjoying it and uh definitely relaxing.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I just did a podcast with a musician that's on the road often, and we were just talking about how crazy of a life a musician gets themselves into, this obsession we have with music and wanting to be on the road.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get on the road and you realize it's kind of tough, right?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're in a different city every day, waking up and just eating regimen, just everything's a little bit chaotic and crazy, and you get to a point and you crave being home, but then the second you get home, you get it, you want to get back on the road.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how you feel sometimes too?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And where are you at in that point of the journey of being home?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's kind of always how it is for me.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't like to be home for longer than a week or two at a time, to be honest with you.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I get I get energized again really quickly.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I do I do always feel that like, oh, I need to get off the road and like and take that breather.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I bounce back from it quickly.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super young, and so like I'm I'm I'm ready to like always like get back at it.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um unfortunately I've been home for longer than I want to at the at the at the moment, but um, I am really enjoying like uh getting like a lot of time in the practice room um and being able to work on some different stuff, really like dive into it as opposed to just like having those little spurts.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, dude, it's been a crazy couple years for you guys, it seems, and I'll never forget what a what a crazy cool show you guys got to be a part of.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you've heard it a bunch where you know there's there's haters on the internet and in real life with bands and music and people like to talk smack.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you've heard the your fair share of like, oh, you're a TV band.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, for me, watching the show at first, I was like, okay, this is a show about a band, and it's like a it's like a scripted show, but then watching you play the drums at your tryout, I was like, this dude, there's no way that this dude's not a drummer.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like they cast an incredible drummer and then obviously becomes okay.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: The fact is that this is a real band, this is insane.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: For you, what moment did you know, like, nah, we're we're a real band?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Was it the whole time, or was it when you guys got on the road and started putting out music?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when did you realize, like, dude, we're doing this thing?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it was um uh, first of all, such a special project.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm so happy to be a part of it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it was kind of pitched to us that way at the very top of the process.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that that being July 2020, um, it's been a long time in the works.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: There was a ton of development years, but it was it was pitched to us that way.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at the top, they were like, we're we're trying to create a music TV show like the ones you've seen growing up, but we want to flip the script and try and bring in real musicians, um, teach them how to act as opposed to the other way around, how it usually is, um, and see if that's something that's even remotely possible.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's kind of never been done before, and and they were thinking maybe there's a reason for that.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna find out if there was a reason for that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you want to be a part of like trying something experimental like that?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was I I jumped at the opportunity.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was fresh out of high school and and really like looking for something to sink my teeth into.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, I jumped on right away.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was super excited about the concept um and just honored that they wanted me to to kind of help represent.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Crazy, dude.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: How did you hear about it?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I I've read various different things that it was like an Instagram casting call.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you how did that work?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: How what what in the world put you in that position?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was an Instagram, um, an Instagram casting call.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So uh there was a show on Netflix called Outer Banks.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they were uh viral hit.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: They literally just did their last season like a week or so ago.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um so they've been going all this time since like 2020 to now.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um five season run.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And during this first season of the TV show, um, this was COVID, right?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: When it was um uh perking up, and so everybody was stuck inside and watching this show about um teens on the beach having the time of their lives, and it just like it ate at the perfect time um for it to kind of become such a viral sensation.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh I was watching it, my sister was watching it, um, and she was following the lead actress Madeline Klein on Instagram.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Madeline Klein had gone on um just an Instagram story, not even a proper post, just a little story um saying, hey, that the Outer Bank's creators are looking for rock musicians slash songwriters um ages 15 to 18.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: If that sounds like you, you know, upload to this email, make YouTube video.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was as simple as that.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: She she took a screenshot of it, my sister, um, sent it over to me.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like I said, I was like maybe two months out of high school at this point, still kind of figuring it out.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was just headed out the door on this day, and she sent it to me real quick, and I was looking at it as I was like kind of leaving the house and I was like, oh, this seems cool.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I went and did my thing, came home later that day, and the next day I sent in an audition tape.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Crazy, dude.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are you walk me through your process of being a creative?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you manifest?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you dream?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you journal?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Did you do anything that you think specifically put yourself in that position to be chosen?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you think worked in your favor at that point besides your obvious chops behind the drums?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you, man.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's very sweet of you.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um you crushed, bro.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, no, just stop it, man.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Stop it.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying my best.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying my best.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, honestly, I mean, I am, I do, I dream big.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to do big things as a drummer.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh I was really just uploading um just covers in in high school.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they weren't getting many views.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of doing it for fun, um, you know, to show my friends and stuff.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and what happened was I did initially like send in an audition tape, um, and they like they liked my audition tape, and then they clicked on the YouTube channel that I had uploaded the audition tape with, um, where a bunch of my covers from high school were up.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think I've I've been told that that kind of like took me over the line in terms of the auditioning process.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, this is a cool audition video, got them interested in me.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it was those videos that kind of I guess showed more of my playing um and helped them kind of make a final decision.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's what um, you know, I don't I don't know if I would have fully made it through the auditioning process had it not been for those videos that I was kind of just making for fun.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think that put me in a good position to to help pull me through.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and then yeah, once I was like, once I had gotten a couple steps into the auditioning process and actually started talking with the people behind the project, um, just just being excited and and um I think they could see it in my eyes that I I want it I wanted to do something cool really badly um and was really eager to to get after it.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it all came together for me in a in a special way.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, dude, I I love it.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a testament to aspiring musicians that are listening to this and watching this.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Please, you gotta go for it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta put the reps in.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even if nobody's watching and you're not getting views, it's not about the views.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's about you doing the reps and putting putting the time in and building your chops, and you do never know who's watching.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, like the fact that you had that resume probably put it over the top.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: They could see your personality, they could see that you're an actual musician that's an aspiring musician trying to do the thing, which obviously played itself really well for the TV show, but you're building your resume constantly.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I talk to a lot of young musicians that send me messages and I'll see them at shows, and they're like, oh man, I'm doing this, and it just doesn't seem like it's getting any traction.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you've we've all seen the meme of like the dude mining for like a diamond, and he's one chop away from like getting the diamond in the in the uh mountain, right?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like we're all just we're all just one cover away, we're all just one upload away or one handshake away from from making it and doing the thing, and that may be a year, 10 years, a week.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you're proof that that can actually happen, and it's been so cool watching you guys like flourish and the fan base that you've got and that you're nurturing and engaging with.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's been so unbelievable.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: How has that felt for you to go from TV show and like, okay, we're gonna be a band and like the show's on, but like now we have to like prove it and we've gotta go and really hustle and really build this fan base and engage and do the thing.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: How's that felt for you?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's special about the TV show is that um because of the fact that they wanted to get genuine musicians and kind of flip the script and turn them into actors, um, we recorded everything live on the TV show.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all the music is tracked on site at the same time as it's being filmed.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you may be watching Take Seven and hear audio from Take Three, but it was all done there that day, that night, whatever it is.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that that gave us a lot of confidence um in like being able to show, I guess, like our tightness as a group.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when it came to performing live after the release of the TV show, for us the main objective was just kind of doing the same thing and making it so that people understand, like, this is the same band that you're listening to on the TV show.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, all the same songs and stuff as well, and the same kids.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like it sounds the same.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't sound any different.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that has been really well received by the people that have come to the shows.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've heard a lot of that feedback, and that obviously is really gratifying because that's the whole idea.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we want people to take away from it.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is that you can come and just watch us and just feel like you're at a rock concert as opposed to like feeling like it's some kind of weird like industry thing.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a at that point, it's just a show.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're just coming to see a concert and having a good time, hopefully.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Was there any added pressure or stress for you guys?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because going into a studio is already nerve-wracking for most musicians.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're behind the glass wall, you've got a producer, you've got maybe your AR guy from the label, but you guys are also filming a TV show and you're acting for the first time.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Walk me through how did you get your mind right to go into the day knowing you're gonna be recording not only a song that you got to do the take perfectly live, but you're also acting.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, God, I I can't take like all of the credit as like, oh yeah, like we totally had this together.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they brought in an acting coach.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: His name was Russ Blackwell.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we worked with him for three years, three and a half years even, um, leading up to the filming process.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think if it wasn't for like the tutelage from him and our director, Jonas Pate, um kind of together, they walked us through a ton of these baby steps um that got us like, like you were saying, in the right like headspace and and kind of got us to wrap our mind around what we were gonna end up doing.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, we were absolutely clueless um as to what was needed of us.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um we really had no idea what we needed to be doing.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: But um, our director Jonas, he has a show out of our banks, he brought us on to set.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is now in their third season, so they're they're still moving and grooving as we're going through the development years.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so this is year three for us at this point.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're already kind of like we're deep in it.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: We've been writing songs, we've been playing local gigs, um, completely detached from like any TV show world, just kind of trying to like be a band and get to know each other.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he brings us on to the set of outer banks, um, where we're playing just like a party scene and we don't have any lines or anything.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're on camera for half a second.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the idea is really for us in real life to get an experience of being on set.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: This happened to be the same like 200-person crew that was gonna end up filming our show.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we knew that at the time, and so it was like nice.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: We were getting to know these people, um, putting faces to names and all that good stuff, um, and just kind of being in the world for like let's say seven hours for like three days, you know, um, kind of getting to walk around, smell the air, and just peep how things work without this being about us in any sense of the word.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that was really helpful for us.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: It put us a lot of ease, it answered a lot of questions, um, and just yeah, really just allowed us to take a take a peek at the world, um, see how this whole operation kind of moves and shakes.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was really fun.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was a it was a really good time.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then that kind of led into like using the cameras more, the big cameras that they use for filming, and just like bringing them random stuff, filming like a little music video or something that might never see the light of day, but just to get us warmed up to these cameras, um, baby step, baby step, baby step.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Then we filmed the pilot for the show, and that was kind of an individual thing.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like, okay, you're gonna shoot for two or three weeks, and then we're gonna stop, and we're gonna take a big break, and you guys are gonna learn more.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know what I mean?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: They they really took us step by step so that by the time we got to year four, which is when we're filming the TV show for real, um, we've we've taken all these steps and and we're feeling confident.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've worked with the scripts um for a whole year at that point, gotten really close with our coach.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just yeah, they they got us, they properly got us ready from kids that had absolutely no idea what we were doing to like, okay, maybe, maybe we can handle this.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's try.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, that's crazy.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they did such a good job, too.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I played and toured in bands as a as a teenager and like did and lived out a lot of the things that you did on the show.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the the script writers and the producers, was Jonas in a band?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who who on that team genuinely and authentically knew how to bring people into that world of like it feeling it felt so real?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: I watched the whole thing with my wife and I'm like, I had a similar situation like exactly to that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: How they nailed it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's the story of so many young bands.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know how they got that kind of sense into it?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Was somebody in a band that was DIYing it and like learned about those things?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or who on the team, you know, did that?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, that's that's really special to hear.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that that feedback is always kind of of the highest caliber when it comes to people like yourself who really know the thing.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when they tell us that, like, hey, this is what it was like, this feels authentic.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that means the world.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was like there was people that were brought in that like have lived the life and have done the thing.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Jonas himself has never been in any bands, has never done anything musical.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he knew that.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't, he's not the kind of guy that was like, feels like he can like kind of look over this entire thing that he doesn't know much about.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So he brought a bunch of like friends and people that he's met in the industry over the years, um, people that he would he trusted with um, I guess the knowledge of like of what this needs to look like.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I mean, early on in the process, year one, year two, we're bringing these people in um that are still around today, are still like really loyalty members and people that we absolutely love and adore.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and just kind of like getting their expertise on on what this should look like.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then even like with us, we were trusted uh an immense amount with like adding to the discussion, um, adding to the script.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we were trusted with the songwriting, which is like absolutely unheard of.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: We were 18 um and writing songs for like a TV show is really special.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think in the beginning of the process, the idea was that we would just kind of be the performers um so that not too much is asked of us.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: But um, as we got to know the people behind the scenes and they got to know us, they started feeling like, hey, maybe these kids are like actually capable of writing these songs and um contributing to the ideas and and being more of like a part of the whole like conception of this thing instead of just being the face of it.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that meant a lot to us because we're young now and we were even younger then.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and to be entrusted with that was it, it I think it gave us a lot of confidence and made it feel like we were being seen and heard.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so it was just like a really lovely thing to be a part of.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but so yeah, to answer your question, that kind of is how it all came about.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: We were a part of that.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they asked us a lot about like what has band practice been like for you growing up.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what should that dialogue and that back and forth in the practice room kind of look like?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um they allowed us to really riff on on that kind of stuff.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like they would write, you know, baseline script of like you're in band practice, and then the rest of it is just kind of us like being in band practice and um and them filming that process, and they didn't they didn't try and drive us in any type of particular direction.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're like um try to try and make this as natural as it's been for for you growing up.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um yeah, and that was that was really awesome.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: I had just when the show came out, I had just actually moved down to the southern outer banks where I live now.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so watching it, like I'm in I'm in like Moorhead City, Emerald Isle area, and like I know you guys film some spots in Wilmington, is that correct?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like on the when you guys played on top of the building, and so like for for a multitude of reasons, like I was just I was encapsulated in the world of it because, like I said, from the music side and the DIY side, literally like the horse trailer that you guys put your gear in, where it wasn't even a fully enclosed trailer, and like you sprayed like the Hot Wheels flames on it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Yep, definitely, definitely did that too when I was like 17 in my band, and like just the scenery of it, it just took me into that world.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that that show, and I'm sure it has, and I'm sure you guys have seen it, and I'd be super interested to hear if you've gotten any DMs or kids at shows telling you, like, hey, the show like made me want to pick up the drums or a guitar and be a songwriter.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Has it has it like created any new musicians that you guys have encountered yet?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that was like, I think anytime when we were being asked as the project was coming together, um, like what do you want to get out of it?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was kind of always at the top of the list for us.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Number one is like just hoping that kids will start garage bands.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously that's not as common nowadays as it was before.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so like if we could be playing any part whatsoever and like getting kids to pick up instruments um and play them together, um, that would be the loveliest thing ever.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was kind of always the number one goal.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there there has been um a lot of people um at the shows that have been like, hey, we're starting bands.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I followed this kid, Connor, um, who on the last leg of the tour he had a sign and we were doing a VIP soundcheck thing, and he had come.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd met him earlier in the tour in Gainesville and I had said hi to him, and I really liked him.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: He was only like 13, um, but I'd never gotten to see him play.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so he came back to the show in June, had a sign that said, Can I play um your song, Funny How the Universe Works?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, here in the soundcheck.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I remembered him because he has this like crazy cool curly hair, so he really stood out.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I remembered him and I was like, Oh, dude, I was like, Come on.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: This actually happened to be the day when I was doing my Modern Drummer rig rundown.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the people from Modern Drummer were there and were able to get this footage for him as well.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really special for him.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: He really loved that.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um he came up and he played a song in sound check, one of our like more technically challenging songs on the drums, in my opinion, um, and just absolutely crushed it.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: 13 years old.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and was telling me all about how the show inspired him, and and he's in two bands now, and um and all all kind of because they they all watched the runaround separately and kind of came together and bonded over it.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um pretty special, man.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: What a cool kid, super talented, and it's like little stories like that um that we've heard like here and there, and people send us DMs, um, people will do covers on TikTok and and and send them to us.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just it's really cool, man.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's really cool.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, it's the best, man.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, shout out David and the modern drummer crew, those dudes rule.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you guys are doing the thing, man.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and I started getting into music when I was nine.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: I heard 311 on MTV when I was nine years old, got a drum set, took lessons, was in the marching band, did the whole thing, ended up creating SJC custom drums with my older brother when we were kids.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And as I started into that world, it became less about like the products.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly, you need a product, you need music to sell to go on tour, we needed drums to sell to have a business.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: But more and more frequently, when I was in my early 20s, it became so hard to ignore for me my passion of almost wanting to be like Willy Wonka, where how can I support the youth that are also that nine, 13, five-year-old kid that's seeing a musician on YouTube or MTV, wherever they're finding out about it, and finding ways to support them.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys are in such a unique and unbelievable position to have this influence and kind of proven track record of being musicians, being funny, being cool.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: They meet you in person, you're approachable, you do stuff like that and bring them up on stage.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Not many musicians do that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, that's why Loyal to the Craft exists.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I created it in my journey of creating the drum brand because I was like, there's been so many mentors I've had in my life that opened up doors for me and opened up these gates that are in the music industry, and I want to just pay it forward.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so, shout out to you guys for taking the time to do that, and not only taking the time, but you can see that it energizes you.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just saying that now, but I've also seen you guys on socials doing it and engaging with the fans, and it's really cool and and and it's a breath of fresh air because you got to pay it forward, man.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not every kid has a supportive parent or teacher that gets it.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And our whole mission is to create motivational and inspiring content, but also activate.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: At the Vans Warp Tour or wherever we may be popping up so that the kid gets the opportunity, but also the parent can see, yo, I've never seen my kid that confident.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Music makes them confident.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it does, mom and dad.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, double down on this.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Help the kid be in music forever.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys are doing that, man.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: So just high five and just keep going, man.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's so cool and refreshing to see.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I appreciate that.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: That means the world, yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate the shout-out.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I love everything that's going on with Low to the Craft.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, ever since I ever since we first started talking last year at this point, yeah.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been a fan and been following, and and yeah, man, I think we're super aligned in in that.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, man.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, dude, take take me into a little bit of like the behind the scenes world.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we try to talk about economics and the real world of the music industry with these young aspirational musicians trying to get in it.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do I need a manager?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do I need a label?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Can I DIY it?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why, from the show's perspective, why wasn't the show renewed?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk about that?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that's something people are dying to know, including myself.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but here's the thing, man.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there was uh a group of executives at Amazon um when we were pitching the TV show around that got really excited about the project, got really excited about us, um, and and they were able to initially get us um uh onto the platform.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um when we did the first season, this took us forever.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: This took us from the time that we got Greenlit to the time that we released, it was two and a half years.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there was a long splendid period of time there.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then from what I've heard is that um a lot of those people were let go from the company um after our TV show came out.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of the people that we were working with during like the press tour, um, we were making these like these bonds with people at Amazon um that were starting to feel more like friends, more than just like these like faceless executives.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like these people are we're starting to bond with them and like we're getting dinners together and all that good stuff.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those people were let go from the company, um, along with then the people that we weren't coming into direct contact with that were playing pivotal roles in in I guess the runarounds at Prime.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's basically all I was told.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I try not to poke around too much um and just kind of be grateful for everything that I did get out of the project.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that's based that was basically the baseline um uh thing that was being fed to us.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that like, you know, it's very easy to kind of to look at that and be like, you know, that's very unlucky for us.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, however, I I've I like to look at it from the other side in that like there could have also been a situation in which those people that endorsed us were not at Amazon in the first place, or this this shift in the company had come a lot sooner to where these people didn't want to necessarily take a chance on us.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's important to mention for me is that like I don't know that there was anything malicious behind this.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was more of a thing of like if you're coming in as a new person at the company or a new team at the company, you want to make sure that you're going with your biggest hitters and you want to make sure that you're finding success for their own path inside of the company.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I don't take this as a personal like shot at us.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just think that we were fresh and we were new and and maybe a little bit they were uncertain about what future seasons might look like with us.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so they played it safe and I I have to have an appreciation for that.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um But yeah, that's kind of the way that that has has helped me um kind of cope with the whole thing is that like this could have happened at an earlier time, and then now there is no season one um to to have kind of blossomed everything that's come after it or come from it for me and for the group personally.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, I'm I'm kind of I'm counting the wins more so than I'm kind of looking at like you know, not being able to go back.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Although I I would have loved it more than anything.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was really excited.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I appreciate your sharing that insight.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, everything happens for a reason, and there's a blessing in that that you just don't know about yet.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for these aspiring creatives that are that are listening to this, the lesson there is that you guys are a band regardless, and you're doing the thing and you're continuing to do it, and your gratitude for that opportunity to do it in the first place.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: The the realness and the real talk of any industry, and it does, I think it's inherent in the TV industry for sure.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Producers, you know, they come and go.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And people at labels and managers, if they didn't start the label and they're not the the owner operator, they could be gone.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's they're gonna let go due to economic reasons or just differences of opinions, or maybe they got a different gig offer somewhere else.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And with that goes some of that, call it IP, call it the I'm gonna champion this idea that I got picked up in Greenlit for in the first place.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a hard, it's a hard battle because when you're sometimes dependent on that person greenlighting it, that's not the best way to be.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And having that DIY ethos where you can still fall back on that brotherhood of being in a band and you guys getting that opportunity and now having that foundation built, you can go and do whatever else is in is in your path.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can make your own YouTube show, you can go and continue to tour and write records and all of that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, I appreciate you sharing that.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um that perspective I think is huge and just the reality for young musicians and creatives to to really understand and not to defer you from picking up the drumsticks or going for it in the first place, but just knowing that that's the reality that could potentially happen and count your blessings all every step of the way, every little win, even the losses are there for a reason.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, man.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I think you said it best.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: It it really can't be encapsulated any better than that.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm I'm so happy to have been a part of the project.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you would have looked at if I if I had been told everything at the start, top of the process, go, okay, here's the things that you're gonna be a part of, here's what you're gonna be doing for the next five or six years, I would have still jumped up and down for joy, knowing that it would have been a one season thing.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I would have jumped immediately because it's like it's still the coolest thing ever.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's still such like a dream project.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and anything on top of that in the TV show world would have just been a cherry on top, really, because the mission was accomplished.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the band is out there now.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And like you were saying, we can we can tour for as long as we want, we can make as many records as we want.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's something liberating about like it's it's tough to write songs for a TV show.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's that's a whole new like world of songwriting that none of us were obviously used to, that a lot of people never get the chance to get used to because that's such a unique situation.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was like it was really fun.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: We really enjoyed the challenge.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm proud of everything that we made for the TV show.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's like it's you know, it's a whole nother thing in this when you're working with different producers and stuff, having to explain the concept, um, having to have these producers like in touch with the writing team on the like it's it's a it's a new thing.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and so it's like there is something liberating about like, okay, we don't have to worry about like what's coming in the script or like tying it into this plot line or anything.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now we can just like we can write songs, go with what feels good, um, and just kind of do the thing like everybody else says.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk about does how did it work with that?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we we we get hit up a little often again, like I mentioned, management labels, do I DIY it?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did Prime own any of the band or the song?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do the echo economics work in the back end as songwriters, credits, and all that?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it a little bit difficult now that you're not going on to a season two, or how does that work in the back end with you guys?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, we were really lucky um because before we were associated with Prime in any way, um, there was though those first few years of development where our team was being fleshed out.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we, by the time we started getting into that like kind of scary territory of like, what is this gonna look like with the songwriting?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we had already kind of had this really awesome, like loyal team of like trusted adults around us um that we felt like were gonna protect us um in all of these negotiations that we didn't know too much about.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that was really, really like protecting and comforting for us inside of the band.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they fought for us really hard at Prime to make sure that like we were being taken care of, um, making sure that we can keep our voices in the songwriting process.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so um, yeah, like we we were the driving components of all of these songs.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we would bring in a producer or a writer or two, but we were always none of these songs were like being conceptualized by anybody other than us.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then our team just did a really good job of fighting for to make sure everything was fair and just making sure that everything was smooth and making sure that we're um properly being um, you know, given what we're what we're owed for these songs, um, and making sure that everything was cool and that we wouldn't walk away at the end of the process feeling like we were anything was taken from us.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which I which still holds true today.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's been a year since the TV show came out.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I feel like everything's been nothing but fair to me.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: My takeaway there is you gotta find your people and find the people that are best at different areas to protect you because at the end of the day, you know, you gotta be a drummer, you gotta be a musician and a creative, and you gotta you gotta bring that to the table.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: You also sometimes, when you're in DIY world, making your own content, doing your own strategy on socials and whatnot, but it's really hard to also wear the hat of being an attorney as well, right?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like or an accountant and having those probably uncomfortable conversations and being in that room.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I've definitely been in certain meetings where I'm like, I am so out of my league right now, I don't really know what I'm doing.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I should have gone back and been like, I should probably, you know, seek counsel to make sure that I'm not getting screwed.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And my takeaway again is like for the young musicians listening to this, even the the older musicians that are out there doing it that might not have that, find the right people that whether you can get them to give you a couple hours of advice or you can scrounge up the money to pay for them to at least sit in a meeting and make sure make sure you're not getting taken advantage of.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because that could have looked really different for you guys had you not done that.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: You could be here not being able to play those songs anymore, which would be totally detrimental to the band at that point, right?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's crazy, man.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think it could have gone any better for us inside of the band.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, like I said, I felt very protected and comfortable throughout the entire process.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was able to fall into that role of like, okay, I just need to worry about playing the drums, writing good songs, and doing a good job in the acting.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: I that's a lot to focus on.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was I felt comfortable to be able to just focus on that because the people that were around me were taking care of me.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah, forever grateful for that.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I just like you said, I think that's the most important thing is making sure that people who who have their expertise in in said field, A, B, or C, um, who specialize in this thing, um, making sure that they're a trusted individual and having them close to you.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And this goes too, like, we we do a lot of like high school assemblies and stuff, and we talk to a lot of kids that have different aspirations, and we hear a lot, like, my dad wants me to be a lawyer, or my parents want me to do X, Y, and Z, but I want to be in music.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, yo, like to all the creatives out there, you can be an entrepreneur, you can go be an attorney for a musician, you can go be a lighting director for a band and go on tour and still live in that world.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can be the best at whatever you're trying to be in music.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly, if you want to be a doctor or whatever, that's gonna be a completely different thing.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so many sustainable careers in music.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And our goal and aspiration is that all those people out there can hear loud and clear that there's space for you and there's total, totally a sustainable career path for you.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and the parents need to understand that as well because it's a different time, social media and the content strategies that we can have.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: You guys go and play these shows, and like because of the TV show, because of what you've done on socials and showing that you are approachable and engaging, you guys show up to a show and there's a line out the door ready to see you guys and interact with you guys, and that's just incredible.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, it really is, dude.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's it's actually um that part of it was a little bit surprising.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't know exactly what to expect when it came to taking the band on tour.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the idea was always for the band to be able to um live separately from the TV show, no matter how long the TV show would go for.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the idea in an ideal world, we would have done season tour, season tour.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we were always planning on kind of keeping that touring part of the regiment alive um so that people can come and see the band and make sure that it's a normal band.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it we didn't know what to expect in terms of like do people want to come and see the band in real life, or are they happier just watching it on screen?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we went when we came to booking the tour, we went extremely small.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: We went extra small to make sure that we weren't like hitting out of our league.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we'd sell a show out and like, okay, we can upgrade these, and that would sell out.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we can upgrade this.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, that's nuts.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, before we'd ever gone on the first show of the tour, we were already like we had these smaller shows locked in, like, these can't be upgraded.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: You got to go and play them.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna, yeah, we're gonna go and play, and it's gonna be awesome.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then like as we're on the way pulling up to this, like, let's say 250 cab venue, we're on a call with the booking agency booking 2,000 seaters for six months away and like still having a blast at the small show because it's sold out and these kids are so excited to be there.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then like you said, it's like we want to do as much of the interacting with them as we possibly can.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we started doing a VIP package so that we can come and hang out with people instead of just sitting backstage after sound check and like wondering what you're gonna have for dinner, come and like hang out with like 75 to 100 of these kids and like chat and and take photos and talk about music and and like you know, and get that like human-to-human interaction.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a lot more fun than sitting backstage, you know.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we're yeah, we're really happy to be doing stuff like that.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Heck yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Which by the way, speaking of food, I see some of your Instagram lives, your your obsession with pancakes, dude.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: What is that all about?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it just is it has it been that way since you were a kid?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I want to throw this, I want to throw this idea your way.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: You need a uh a Zende Murdoch practice pad, that's a pancake.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: A blueberry pancake.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: A love perfect pancake.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: The practice pad is a is a pancake, dude.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: I need this in my life.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: This has to be like, this needs to be a thing.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna happen, man.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Goofiest, uh, like kind of like tidbit of this whole like process.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I I have loved pancakes my whole life.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I grew up in Amsterdam and they had these like they were not crepes, but these really thin, um, kind of made-to-go pancakes um that were sold in like packs of eight.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my mom was always at work in the morning.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my dad's a drummer, so he didn't have like a nine to five.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so um he was waking up in the morning all groggy and like wondering what he's gonna make for breakfast every day as I'm going to school with my sister.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And these pancakes, you just like you throw them on a skillet and you just warm them up.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like it could not get any simpler than that when it comes to like making breakfast five days a week.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: So my dad was like, I love these things.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and to me, they were like so incredible.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I was eating them religiously um all all throughout this time in my life, um, and just kind of kept loving them.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I love that there's like such a classic breakfast, but um you one day early in the tour, um, I just posted a photo of like a pancake that I was about to eat that I thought was great, and the response from this from this group of girls was just like so overwhelming.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: They were so excited about it.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it just kind of became a meme.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I planned to keep it going for a few days, and it just ended up like being the most like popular thing that I would ever post over like any drumming or anything like that.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: They were just like, oh, these pancakes are just like we love them.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: They start showing up at the uh shows with like little pancake gifts and stuff.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we kept it going.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Our LD on the tour um thought it would be hilarious to create uh the pancake drummer fan account, um, against my knowledge and against my will.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he created this account.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that then there was this one day in Columbus where they hire um this local like pancake flipping dude um who I guess usually does like birthday parties or events, and they they told him, Hey, come to the venue before sound check and like do some like pancake flipping stuff.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Our drummer's gonna freak out.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I did freak out, and that like kind of that's what kind of helped it like explode inside of the runarounds fan base.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because that that account was then used to post all the pancake flipping stuff, and it was absolutely ridiculous.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now now it's a thing.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a thing, dude.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's living.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's a thing, dude.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of your dad, he's a professional drummer, as you mentioned.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: What is something that he taught you that has nothing to do with playing drums or music that you still hold with you today?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, wow, it's a beautiful question.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh my my my parents, both my parents have have been um really since a young age just harping on the fact that it's always more about who you are as a person than your talent.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that's I've heard that more than I've heard anything else throughout my life.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because they just really wanted to make sure that they were driving that home.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it becomes one of those things where it's like you can be as talented as you want to be.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can be as good at your instrument as you want to be and practice as much as you want to practice.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're not an easy person to work with, um and you're not like an actual good hang, then like you're gonna lose the opportunities um over someone who isn't as good as you, but they're just a cool person and like people want to be around them.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I, you know, if I if I'm taking like, you know, the primary lesson that has been taught to me outside of like anything like how to be good at the drums, I'd say that.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, being a being a cool dude and and being a person that some people want to be around and and spend, you know, a tour bus with for four months in this like enclosed space, you gotta be a cool person.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, respect, man.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you can only really understand that until you've really gone through it.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like your dad being a professional musician, he's I'm sure dealt with the egos and dealt with the people that aren't a good hang.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Even though they might be an incredible musician, it's like, now I'm gonna pick the person that's just maybe a little bit less skilled than you, but they're way cooler of a hang.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: That is gonna win every time.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so important for the youth to understand is like ego doesn't win, man.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody should read the book Ego is the enemy, because it really is.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can be an incredible musician, but if you're not a good hang, like nobody's gonna want to be around you.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta be able to lift up those around you because touring, as as as awesome as it is, and it seems in like the clips online, like the reality of it is like it's just real life and it's difficult because you're in a van or a bus and backstage with people, and uh you uh everybody's got emotions, everybody's got things that trigger them.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not a good person, it's gonna make everybody else around you pretty miserable.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Couldn't have said it better.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, man, you've got a platform now, you grew up seemingly being obsessed with drums.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: To get the chops that you've got, you've got to be obsessed with drums.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Having a dad that's a drummer obviously helps as well because you're just born and living around it.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: What responsibility do you feel now toward the kid that's watching you the way that you watched drummers growing up?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do you feel like you have to bring to the table?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: And even looking at yourself, what do you wish that like 13, 14-year-old Zende needed that you weren't getting?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, um, it's funny.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm I'm trying to be as transparent as I can about like I guess how I'm trying to climb the ladder in the world of professional drumming.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was really frustrating for me growing up that there wasn't like some kind of path to pro.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would always, I would always compare it to sports, how it's like it felt to me, I've never played any sports, but it felt to me like you could be super great in high school and then a scout will come and see you, and now you play in college and you crush it there, and then you make it to the pro leagues.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And as long as you're a cool person and you've got the talent to go along with it, like there's a a step, a step like ladder thing that you can climb really easily, and you kind of you can see it in front of you.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was always kind of wishing that there was something like that for music and for drums.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I felt like there wasn't anything quite as defined as it is in like sports or like racing, for example.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that really bothered me as a kid because I wanted to know like what do I do?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how do I like make it, quote unquote.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now as I'm like trying to do the thing, it's becoming more people always tell you it's all about connections and like who you're meeting and shaking the right hands and networking, networking, networking, networking.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as a kid, that's really frustrating to hear because it doesn't mean much to you as an eight-year-old.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: What is networking?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now obviously I'm I'm starting to go through it and I'm understanding that it that is the only right answer.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you all you have to meet people, you have to network.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: This leads to that, and that leads to this, and this opens that door, and it keeps going and it snowballs and it snowballs.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and now, like recently, I've been able because of the platform of the TV show, this past year for me has been like meeting people inside of the world of drumming, um, people like yourself, and just like shaking all these hands and doing all this networking.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm starting to understand that like as these things that are really exciting for me are starting to come at me, um I'm you know trying to process and going, how did A, B, and C happen?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it all comes back to just like shaking that hand and and talking to this person.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this person knows that person, and it keeps going, it keeps going, it keeps going.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And being in being a good hang and having those people, you never know who's watching you, and you being a good hang and shaking that hand and being respectful and being nice and being yourself, being yourself and not putting on a front, people will respect that, people would appreciate that, and you never know when that's gonna circle back around.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Back to you plugging yourself, putting drum videos up on YouTube just to do it, that built your resume that you didn't know.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: The people on the show, the producers, looked at that and they said, Okay, this dude gut chops, he can play, he's you see a little bit of the personality.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: You never know who's watching.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you said that because I agree, and nothing really like that exists in the music industry.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a little of what Loyal to the Craft is trying to do is like create a little bit of this.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Community, breaking down some of these barriers, but it's all about that web.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: When I was 18, I got my first ever tattoo, and it's one of the worst tattoos I have, but I love it because it's a it's a spider web on my ankle because I realized really quickly when I was a teen, I was like, yo, I just made drums for my favorite bands for the Aquabats, who's my brother's favorite band that Travis Barker used to be in.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: How did that happen?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then those dudes introduced me to that guy, and then that manager manages Panic at the disco.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: And Panic at the Disco is the band that got me to be able to leave college and focus on the drum brand.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: That web that was created, I didn't know I was doing that, but it was.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a web that you build that you can call on.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: It becomes your Rolodex, it becomes your people, and it becomes kind of a lifeline eventually of like, maybe you need to call on a favor, maybe you need advice, maybe somebody needs a favor from you, or you're like, I've got just the person.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: I met somebody a year ago and I'm gonna give them a ring.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you just never know who's looking.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's a great, great piece of advice that I hope these aspiring musicians and creatives really take to heart is like you gotta put yourself out there.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're gonna practice your instrument, if you're gonna practice your craft, equally practice going and putting yourself out there.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're if you're shy, you gotta you gotta be able to go out there and say what's up and like break some of that shyness away and just put the reps in on talking to people, going to a coffee shop and saying what's up to a random person and lowering a little bit of that shyness that you have because you got to be able to put yourself out there.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, man.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's such an interesting thing.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like um for me, it's like I felt like one of my biggest regrets was not um posting more when I was growing up.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would post a video, wait two months, post another video, and it ended up being like a nice little catalog of stuff for the producers to end up finding.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I wish I had gone gone harder on that.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: I look at people like Jack, um Jack Made Glia, and and seeing what he's doing as a 15, 16 year old, and I'm like, that's awesome, man.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I'm so grateful for the TV show because I felt like it kind of um it helped me to then gain a platform that I can use to kind of to find my place in the world of drumming, um, and kind of give myself that platform that, for example, Jack has built for himself.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I think that like when I met that kid Connor a few months ago, yeah, um, that's the first thing I told him when he was asked, he asked me for advice, and that's the first thing I said.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I sent them Jack's page and I was like, You are you are a couple years younger than this dude, like do this.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you want to like make a name for yourself by the time you're graduating and you don't want to go to college, if you want to do this right away, then like this is what you need to do.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: You need to do a jack's dealing.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah, it's been really special for me, like now post TV show, um, to kind of to get that platform that I can then like use to to reach out to people and and and find my place in here.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: One of the first people that reached out to me with Anthony Gazelle, um, just a few days after the TV show came out.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: He was like the first like notable like drumming community figure to reach out to me and be like, You're awesome.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and shared a lot of the same sentiments uh with me that you did today, where he was like, I as a musician, I'm watching the TV show um and I'm noticing that like this tryout scene, like that kid's really playing the drums and it really it brought him in um and got him hooked on it.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like it's really satisfying to hear that from him, really satisfying to hear it from yourself.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because that's like that obviously means the world.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, he was he was the first person to kind of reach out to me.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and since then, now it's been a year, now I've like I've been able to talk to so many amazing people um that are doing something special in this community um and helping me get my name out there.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, shout out Anthony, he's the man.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've known Anthony for a while now, and he's he's one of the best, dude.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: In the industry, you're gonna meet a bunch of people, but Anthony's he's legit, dude.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: That dude rolls.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, man, thank you, thank you so much for your time and joining me and the Adobe listeners and coming on Loyal to the Craft and just sharing your wisdom and the behind the scenes of some of this stuff.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's been so interesting and educational and so many takeaways.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to plug you know next for you?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: What do you guys got coming up?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Anything special that you want to tease by the time this episode comes out?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, just thank you so much for letting me be here today.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I immediately wanted to do it as soon as you uh presented me the opportunity.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm really excited to be a part of this.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm in the Modern Drummer Readers Poll right now.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm in the up-and-coming category, um, trying to campaign for some votes.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think that's the best thing that I can say right there.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I did a rig rundown uh and it came down, it came out a few days ago.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's out now, if you want to check that out.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um I'm in the September issue um right under Anika Niles.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's really cool.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's an interview um in the middle section of the September issue um with me.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, those are just kind of some of the stuff I'm working on.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um got some cool stuff coming up with Zildjian soon.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, stay on the lookout.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: Heck yeah, man.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Congrats on all of the momentum and all of the great accolades.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be plenty more, I'm sure, but it's been so awesome seeing your journey so far.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Can't wait to see the rest of it.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh thank you so much.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta get you up here to the Outer Banks one day, man.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'll take you out on the boat, we'll chill in the ocean.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, we'll do the thing.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're uh we're like uh not not a terrible drive away.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: I recently drove to Atlanta and I was back by by evening.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, man, we'd love to have you up here and hang in person and just can't wait to uh see what comes next.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: But we'd love to keep you guys in the loyal to the crafts, you know, ecosystem, doing stuff for kids, giving back.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: And again, appreciate you being here, man.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, brother.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's been it's been a fun time, man.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah.