Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #49: Is Parental Estrangement Permanent? One Mother's Healing Journey

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#49: Is Parental Estrangement Permanent? One Mother's Healing Journey · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

0:00
SPEAKER_02: If you're a parent of an adult child, worried and frustrated because they are struggling to become independent, responsible, and find purpose in their life, or you want to know what to do to prevent it, you're in the right place.
0:13
SPEAKER_02: This is Launch, a podcast that helps you guide your adult child to launch confidently into adulthood.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm Sherry Jones, author, educator, and co-parent to get help and take a deep dive into the ongoing challenges that you're faced with as you watch your adult child struggle.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: Each episode will deliver actionable steps and strategies that you can take to help your young adult become confident, motivated, and self-sufficient.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: Parents, if you want your adult child to achieve a life of independence, thrive in this world, and reach their full potential, then listen in to launch.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is someone you might remember from episode 16.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: The topic was parental estrangement.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: If you haven't heard the episode or watched it on YouTube, I strongly recommend that you do that before you listen to today's conversation.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: Crystal Allen is back.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: She's an intensive healing life coach who works with parents whose adult children have decided to go no contact.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: Last time we spoke, Crystal shared the heartbreak of being estranged from two of her adult children, something she believes was deeply connected to the trauma she carried for years.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, today, Crystal has an update to share, and the news might surprise you.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to give too much away, so I'll just say this.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: Anything is possible.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: And if you haven't already, please hit the follow button so you never miss an episode.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: And yes, share this with someone who might need a little help.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: Let's get started.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: Crystal Hi, welcome back to lunch.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me back.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm really happy that you're here again.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and it's not just because of how much I enjoyed our last conversation, um, because I just love how honest and vulnerable you were about your story with you know two of your kids being estranged, but because this time we get to share some really exciting news.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: But before we do, for those who want to hear your full story, uh they can go to episode 16 and listen or watch it.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: But Crystal, if you don't mind, can you give us a quick recap of what was going on back then?
2:38
SPEAKER_02: And then I'd love to hear what has changed in the last few months.
2:43
unknown: Okay.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: So basically what happened to me is I I didn't realize that I had a very traumatic childhood, a very traumatic childhood.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: For some reason, I just thought it was normal.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: And and I didn't understand why I was making such bad choices in my life.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: I continued to make horrific choices that affected me and all the people around me.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: One day, about three and a half years ago, my youngest son, I have four children.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: My youngest son came up to me and told me, or he had told me, that uh I had a drinking problem and that I needed to get it under control, or he wasn't going to speak to me anymore.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: And that just threw me back.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: First of all, it was very hard to hear.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: But second of all, I was petrified of losing my child.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I got my butt into rehab really quickly, and then I went to therapy and I relapsed a few times and I went to therapy, I went to trauma therapy, and things started to get better in my life for myself, but my marriage was falling apart.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: So my marriage fell apart, and then when my marriage fell apart, there was so much chaos and drama that was surrounding it.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a good breakup, it was very messy.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: My children went no contact with me, and my two youngest sons went no contact with me for over a year.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: They didn't talk to me.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I took that time as at first I was crushed, I was heartbroken.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: How could you do this to me?
4:08
SPEAKER_00: How could you leave me in the worst time of my life?
4:11
SPEAKER_00: And then I recognized wait a minute, if my own kids don't like me, I I may need to look in the mirror because if my own children whom I raised don't want to be around me, I need to look at myself.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: I gotta look at myself.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: And so I did.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: And when I got into trauma therapy, I recognized that I had some toxic behaviors that I didn't even know were toxic behaviors.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea that I was passive aggressive, that I that I didn't even know what gaslighting was, but I recognized I kind of did that with my kids.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: I I was a little manipulative if I wanted them to do something.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: So I started seeing myself differently.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And I started, you know, going, uh oh my God, oh my God, I I think I've messed up.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: But wait a minute, I had to come to, I had to reconcile in my mind that I did the best I could and I and I still messed up.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: That I tried not to traumatize my kids, but I did.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: And I had to acknowledge that.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: And while I was doing that work uh for the last year and a year and a bit, uh for about a year and a bit, about two months ago, I got a text from my youngest son.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And the text basically said, I want to take this slow.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: This isn't this doesn't mean the door is swinging wide open.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: He was testing the waters, he was making his boundaries very clear, but he said I'd like to commence communication again.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: And I remember reading it and I I had to put it away because I couldn't process it.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, what do I do with this information?
5:51
SPEAKER_00: What do I do?
5:52
SPEAKER_00: What is the right thing to do?
5:54
SPEAKER_00: So I had to calm myself, calm my nervous system, get myself regulated, and then go, okay, I'm going to respond to with I'm here, my door is wide open, I'll follow your lead.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: And that's basically what I've done.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: The interesting thing was two days later, I received a phone call from my oldest son, who was no contact with me.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: The two of them had not been speaking to each other very often.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like they coordinated this in any way.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: It just so happened.
6:27
unknown: Wow.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: It just so happened that I think when I was ready, when I was ready to accept responsibility and to take accountability for the things that I'd done that had contributed to their pain, somehow the door just miraculously opened.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: And um and we both have different relationships now.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: But with my youngest son over the last two and a half months, I would say, two months.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, it has been amazing.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: We have done everything from go to the beach together to go on walks to have dinner together.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: I spend time with them at least a couple of times a week.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: He has two children, a what beautiful wife and two children.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: And uh, so I got to see my grandchildren for the first time in a year and a half.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: And it was so cute because my oldest grandchild, who is two and a half years old, didn't know, didn't remember me.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: He was only a year and a bit.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: So he didn't remember me.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: But he looked at me at the playground and he goes, Hi, daddy's mommy.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I was like, hi, daddy's mommy, that's so cute.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: And then my son was like, you can call her grandma if you want to.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: So there was a process of getting to know each other, understanding what they're what they're uh watching them parent and have respect for the way that they parent so that I don't cross over those boundaries.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Because these are their children, not mine.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Right.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to be the the parent.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: So it's been um a full circle moment for me because I have been talking to estranged parents about how to accept responsibility, how to accept accountability for what you've done, and just say you're sorry and and really take a good hard look at yourself.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: And now that my kids are back in my life, I'm able to get more feedback from them about me.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Because I said to my kids, listen, this is open field.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: If I do something that is not okay, I want you to say it.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: Just tell me point plain, and opened up that communication, and it's made a huge difference.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: A huge difference.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited for you.
8:45
SPEAKER_02: That's so I I have so many questions though.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: So go for it.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: All right.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, I'm just curious, like, what was that first meeting like?
8:55
SPEAKER_02: Were you were you was it surreal?
8:58
SPEAKER_00: Were you like it was surreal?
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, we decided to meet in a public place at a park.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: We both live in the same neighborhood.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: So he said he sent me the a pin map pin to this park.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: And he said, I'll meet you here with the kids.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: I knew my daughter-in-law wasn't gonna be there, it was just gonna be my son and his children.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: So I walked up the hill to go to the playground, and I could see my grandson running across the hill, and he was running toward me with a smile on his face.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: And then I saw my granddaughter who I hadn't seen since she was a month old.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: And so I saw her and I was I was just dumbfounded by them.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: And he said, which and and my son said, Hi, mom, and he gave me a hug and he said, Thanks for coming.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Thank you for inviting me.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And we spent the entire time just playing with the children.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: And he did say to me, I my son looked at me at one point and said to me, You don't have to be nervous about saying the wrong thing, mom.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what grace he can offer me.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, how old is he?
10:05
SPEAKER_00: He's 30 years old.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: That's incredible.
10:10
unknown: That's incredible.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm not, he he he has said to me already um that you know he's he's sorry that it took so long to get back in touch with me.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: And I told him, Don't you dare apologize to me.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: You took as long as you needed to take, and I was just fine.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Don't you worry about me.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: You took as long as you needed to take to to heal from whatever it was, and we haven't had massive in-depth conversations about anything.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: We're just kind of getting to know each other again without diving into all the deep stuff that we need to.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: We need to we need to establish connection and safety with each other, yes, both of us, in order for us to be open enough to have those deep conversations.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think we're there yet.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: I think we're working on it, getting to know each other.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: I am getting to know my son more than I ever knew him before.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: And he is opening up and telling me things, and I am doing the same.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: We are sharing, mutually sharing information now, which is nice.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: So I was nervous, I was very nervous that first meeting.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: But seeing that the grandkids and then seeing my son and the smile he had on his face and the fact that he was trying to put me at ease really helped, really helped the situation.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: That's that's just unbelievable.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm so uh emotional right now for you, you know, because I will I wanted that for you when we first spoke.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, thank you.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you too.
11:41
unknown: Yeah.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: Are are there any like I mean you're getting acquainted and and that's a great approach because I think there there might be some parents who would think that they just want to rush into like, what happened?
11:51
SPEAKER_02: What did I do wrong?
11:52
SPEAKER_02: Why were you so angry?
11:53
SPEAKER_02: And that's completely the wrong way to approach it.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: You're you're doing it perfectly, building that trust again and that that connection through communication.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: I I think you've absolutely nailed it.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: And to no surprise, you've done so much work.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: So obviously, I I would imagine that you know what to do.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: But are there any like new patterns or habits or even boundaries that are, you know, coming out because of this new relationship?
12:22
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I've made clear to my son is that um, you know, I want him to share as much as he wants to with me, but also to let me know what the boundaries are.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, one of the boundaries is don't pop over without letting us know first.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, hey, I'm easy with that.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: That's totally okay.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, other boundaries are things like with the parenting.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: There is no yelling at those grandchildren.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: Do not raise your voice.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: That's we they don't raise voices.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: And watching them watching Sherry, watching him parent is the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced in my life.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: This man, he's not my boy anymore.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: He's a man.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: This man devotes himself to understanding his children and being present for his children.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: And it's and I said to him, How did you learn this, son?
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And he said, I don't know.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: I just picked up on what you taught me and then added to it.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I was gonna ask you, do you think you must have had uh some positive influence impact on him?
13:32
SPEAKER_02: He would not be that kind of parent without something in his past guiding him.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I he's been he's been he said something about the other day we were talking about saints, and he said, Yeah, in order to be an official saint, you have to have committed, you have to have committed at least two miracles.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, I'm gonna have to get working on that.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Mom, you birthed four children, you've got miracles.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Thank you, son.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: You know, I can't help but wonder if it's because he is a parent now that he has he's more compassionate and more and giving and has given you grace, because we do, as parents, make mistakes all the time, you know.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: So I wonder if being a parent has helped him to see you differently.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm sure it has.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: We haven't had that conversation uh straight out, but in in watching him parent and in watching his interaction with his children and how he it there has to be something there that's connecting those dots because I know they connected the dots for me.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: When I had children, I thought a lot about my own childhood, you know, and I'm sure that that happens often with these young adults.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: They go off, they have children, and they start thinking about their own childhood and what may have been missing from their childhood, what they want to what they want to ensure they they pass down this.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: For example, my mom never said I love you.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm gonna say I love you a hundred times a day, too bad nauseum.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, my mother spanked me.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm never gonna lay a hand on my child, okay?
15:06
SPEAKER_00: Or my mother called me names.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm never gonna call, I'm gonna pray, praise my child's.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: There's that pendulum swings too far sometimes, right?
15:14
SPEAKER_00: And I know it swung too far for me when I was parenting my children.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to do the exact opposite of what my mother had done.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: My parents had done.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to do the exact opposite, but you can't outwit the trauma in your body, you can't outthink it, you can't outbehave it.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: You've got to heal it or you've pass it on.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't realize I was passing it on in a different way.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: It looked different, but it still affected my children.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: So when you were in the thick of us of the estrangement, I know it we don't want to go back too far, but because you are basically coaching parents, this is always something you're gonna have to revisit.
15:53
SPEAKER_02: Did you ever did you have periods of doubt where you thought you might never see your kids again?
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there were periods of doubt when I thought that I would never see them again.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: But they were fleeting moments because I kept saying to myself, I can't control that.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: The only thing I can control is healing myself so I can be the best version of myself when and if they decide to come back.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: I that's all I kept thinking.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: So whenever I would go down that road of, oh my God, I may never see my children again, uh, my brain would go, Well, if you don't continue doing this healing journey that you're on, you definitely won't see your kids again because you're not gonna be able to see your own stuff and acknowledge your own, your, your own um inabilities to connect or be emotionally intelligent or emotionally stable.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: So I did, I did have fears every once in a while, but I'm gonna be 100% honest here.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: 95% of the time, I knew that at some point my kids would may not come right back into my life and be in my life in the way that I want them to be or I hope they would be, but that they would peek out of their, you know, area there and and take a look and say, hey, mom, are you still the same?
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Are you still the same or have you have you managed to grow a little bit?
17:18
SPEAKER_00: And um I think it's thanks to the time I took to grow that they did come back.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be honest.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: So when we first spoke back in March, you you were working so hard on yourself.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: What have you learned about yourself?
17:37
SPEAKER_02: I I we can even say from from March till now, what have you, what epiphanies did you realize about yourself that brought you to where you are today?
17:45
SPEAKER_00: I dug deep into the area of emotional regulation and emotional maturity.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I wanted to kind of take a look back and and ask myself, did I lean on my kids too much for emotional support?
17:59
SPEAKER_00: What did I did I did I trauma dump on my kids?
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Did I, you know, cry in front of my children and hope that they could make me feel better?
18:08
SPEAKER_00: And I realized that I had done that and I and I wanted to own that.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: And what I also wanted to do was recognize when do I do that?
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Is it when I'm emotionally what fear?
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Is it fear?
18:21
SPEAKER_00: And then I went, oh, it is.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: It's usually fear that precedes that.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: So now so I worked on fear.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: I worked on how fear shows up in my body, I worked on how fear shows up in my brain, and I now know that when I'm afraid, I'm able to take a step back and not act reactively.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: But I can I can step back, observe what's going on, take a breath, and then proceed so that I know, oh, this isn't something that I need to lay lay on my kids.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: I I've got my therapist for this, I've got my best friend for this, I've got Sherry for this, I've got whoever I need to talk to about this.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't need to lean on my children anymore.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: I really, one of the things that I that I that I looked at was that.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: And also my opinions about their um their lives.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, my opinion doesn't matter.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: They are completely autonomous individual people.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: And my opinion about what they do and doesn't.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: Now, if they ask for my opinion, I'll give it.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Because my son said to me the other day when he was we were talking, he said he was telling me the scenario.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: And I said to him, Do you want someone to listen or are you looking for advice?
19:32
SPEAKER_00: He goes, I'm looking for advice.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay, no problem.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: That's and that's all you have to do is ask them.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: So I'm learning, I'm learning how to be the parent of an adult human being.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm learning.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: And we're all learning that how to do that.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: You're learning it, you're thinking I'm learning it because we've been estranged.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: But the truth of the matter is, estranged or not, all of us as parents of adult children are on a day-to-day basis trying to figure out how to do this well, how to serve them, how to be the best friend, advisor, parent to an adult child.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: So you you might be playing a little bit of catch-up, but you know, you're you've nailed it.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: I think so far.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: So far, I'm I'm trying.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm and I and I and I make mistakes.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: And I've said I'm I'm I've had I've said a few apologies, let me tell you.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Good.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have so said to my son that I am sorry that I leaned on him the way I did.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: I've said to my son that I'm sorry that, you know, when something comes up and he said, you know, I I feel like I wasn't allowed to have a voice when I was a child.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: I immediately responded by saying, I am so sorry.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Was I one of the people that made you feel that way?
20:42
SPEAKER_00: He said, Yeah, sometimes.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, then I then I owe you an apology because your voice is important.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: It always has been, and that wasn't about you, that was about my own shit, not yours.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: So I I've I've made a few apologies, you know, for sure.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have so much to say.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: I want to go back for one second before I forget about this.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: You I knew you were gonna say something about emotional regulation because you said that when you got that text message or whatever it was, um, that you had to regulate yourself.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, already that's like huge.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: The fact that you were so self-aware that your emotions were gonna go like out of control, that you had to kind of calm down, regulate your emotions.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: And I thought, there, she's already made so much progress.
21:28
SPEAKER_02: And then you just said it like it was something you had to work on.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: So I know I bring up emotional regulation a lot with different guests, but I I always like everybody to share their perspective of what emotional regulation is because our listeners still trying to learn it for themselves.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: So if you don't mind, in your words.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: So for me, before I started healing, I was very reactionary.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: So it if something happened, it was like a reflex.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, the doctor does the little reflex thing.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: My my knee jerk was just I my I that was my response.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: It was just a knee-jerk reaction all the time.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, but what I'm learning when it comes to emotional regulation, for me, I love I like the stop technique um that comes from DBT, dialectical behavioral therapy.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Now, the stop technique is stop, take a breath, or take a moment, or take a step back, observe what's going on, and then proceed mindfully.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: So the hardest part is to stop yourself.
22:28
unknown: Yes.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: The hardest part is to stop yourself from saying something when you're in the heat of the moment.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: But once you give yourself that moment to breathe, take a breath.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: If you need to, take another one.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: Observe what's really going on.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: How triggered are you?
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Is now the time to respond?
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Or is now the time to pull back and not respond?
22:51
SPEAKER_00: And then you proceed mindfully.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: You proceed mindfully.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: So for me, um emotional regulation was training my body and my mind in a different way because my body will immediately be triggered and tell me, danger, danger, speak up, speak up, say something, danger.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: And really, it's it's it's not always that that immediate.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to react to it that immediately.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: You can take that moment and step back.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: And then when you respond, you respond with something instead of being reaction, you respond.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Instead of a reaction, you get a response.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: So it to me, the stop technique has been very helpful for me.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And I and I do recommend it to my clients as well because I think it's and and the other thing is practice.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: So the first time that this happened to me, I realized I didn't use my stop technique, but I look, I didn't shame myself.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: I went, oh, darn it, I just blurted out what I shouldn't have blurted out.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Darn it, darn it.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm not gonna hate myself for that, but I'm gonna recognize the next time and try to catch it just a little sooner and a little sooner and a little sooner.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: And before you know it, yeah, you breathe before you before you respond to anything.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: You just take that breath and then you respond.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: I don't think people realize how powerful breathing is.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: And uh and to add to what you're saying, I I'm making reference to this uh also a lot lately because I want parents to understand the science behind what's going on in our bodies.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: So you know this the amygdala is the emotional center of our brain.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: That's the reaction, that's the knee-jerk reaction.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: The prefrontal cortex, I'm switching the prefrontal cortex, is the logical part of our brain that says, okay, think about this logically before you just jump out and answer them.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: Or what is even, if is there even a necessary answer?
24:47
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I can just be quiet.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: The breathing calms your amygdala, it calms your body down, which shuts down, which calms your emotions down, so that you can go into that front part of your brain and go, what is the best response to this, if any is necessary.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: So I love that you said that.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: And I just wanted to kind of bring it back to our bodies and our brains are so connected to breathing.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: And emotional intelligence is simply, you know, being able to bypass, not bypass, but read what your body is saying to you, and then switch your mind to that prefrontal cortex and have that logical part kick in.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: But it takes practice, a lot of practice.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: That's the thing a lot of people don't understand.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: Is this like practice?
25:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like practicing the piano.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna hit the wrong key a lot of times before you hit the right keys.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: And so practicing emotional regulation takes a lot of stamina, it takes a lot of practice, it takes a lot of self-compassion because we're gonna be really hard on ourselves when we don't do it right the first few times, right?
25:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I practice it all the time with my kids.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: I find that when I when we walk together, it's easier to practice because you're not looking at each other.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: So when they're venting about something and you want to either jump in with the solution or you want to, or you feel like maybe not that you're being attacked, but maybe there's something that's being said that you feel responsible for.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: When you're not looking at them and you're walking, it's easier for you to look away, look in, look at the trees, take that that moment to go, what am I, what should I be saying right now?
26:32
SPEAKER_02: And that space that you give yourself, but is is amazing.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: But when you're face to face with them and they tell you something, that's when you go, Well, you know.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's so many parents that are angry, estranged parents that are angry, um, confused, and very, very defensive.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned the knee-jerk reaction.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: I understand that.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: I get that.
27:01
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it comes when our kids they're upset with something that we did or we said at that moment or in the past, and we want to like we want to respond, but we have to give them the space to express themselves and the respect for what they're feeling, because the worst thing we can do is to deny their experience, even even if we don't agree with it.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: That that's you said it before, that's basically a form of gaslighting.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: But it can be so hard.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Like I want all parents to understand, no matter what stage you're at with your kids, accepting responsibility for our children is important because we never meant to hurt them.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: So accepting it as saying, like, I'm not an I'm not a perfect person.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: I screwed up.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: But as long as you understand it was never my intention to hurt you, and that's not to say that all parents, there are some evil parents out there.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just talking about the ones that uh did what we did, you know, brought some of our trauma and our emotional wounds into raising our children without realizing what we were doing.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, both of my parents, they're not here anymore.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: So I keep thinking, imagine if they were here and they were always listening to these episodes.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: But both of my parents were like that.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: They they they never meant to hurt me, but they did by act by you know by accident.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I'm not a religious person, but I just want to say this the biblical phrase, forgive them for they know not what they do, is a sentiment that all of us, regardless of our age, can practice when it comes to our parents, you know?
28:47
SPEAKER_02: And I and again, I'm not saying that this applies to everyone in our lives.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: Already, I, you know, we know we're gonna get some some feedback, some pushback on this.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm just really speaking about the parent-child relationship, right?
28:59
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's not that we're ever excusing their behavior, but we know we're saying it right now.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: We and our parents have acted out of unhealed wounds or their limitations or just a lack of awareness.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: I am going off on a tangent now, Crystal.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay, because you know what, you know what it brought to my mind though, Sherry, is the fact that because I've always had a very tumultuous relationship with my mother.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: It was very difficult.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: And um, I spoke some truth to her uh about a month and a half ago that I had never spoken before in my life.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: The stuff that you hold deep down that you really want to say, but you never say it because you're too afraid to say it.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: I said it.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: I said it to my mom.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: And my mom immediately got defensive, deflective.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: She said, That never happened.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: You're making it up in your head.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: And I stepped back from that interaction, as wounded as I was and as hurt as I was.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: I stepped back from that interaction and I recognized, oh, she can't admit this stuff because if she admits this stuff, she's got to face so much stuff about herself and she can't do it.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: Something in me switched and flipped.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: And then I also look at the compassion and the grace that my children are offering to me, and I'm offering it now up to my mom too.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: So this is healing generations of us, if that makes sense, right?
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: What you just uh what you just identified was what we call a paradigm shift.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: You see the exact same situation over and over and over again with the same lens, and then one day something switches, yeah, a new perspective, and that new perspective is what we call a paradigm shift.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: You can see the exact same situation with a fresh new pair of eyes.
30:55
SPEAKER_02: And with that comes forgiveness.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, and and and some grace and compassion, you know, even though my mom, you know, what she said when I when I told her those truths a couple a couple a couple of months ago or whatever it was, a few weeks ago, um I thought I would feel so much better to by being validated by her.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: I I wanted to share these experiences with her and say, this is what happened, validate me.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: And she couldn't validate me.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: And I realized I don't need it.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: I thought I needed it, but I don't need no, I don't.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm like, no, no, no.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: I already know my truth.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: I know this happened, uh and I'm okay with it.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm healing from it.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: I don't need you to validate me anymore.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: So once I cut the cord from needing my own mother's validation, I was able to see her for who she truly is and not who I want her to be.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful, beautiful words.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, um, again, talking to the parents who or the young adults, but I most of our this audience is our parents who are holding on to that anger um and and being defensive, or or when they have conversations with their kids.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: I this is a warning sign for parents that at some point if you continue to hold on to your anger and you defend yourself with your kids, you will start seeing signs of low contact.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you'll see less and less of them, less and less of them.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: They'll pull away because all they're really looking for is accountability and and and changed behavior.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: And I know that that sounds like a lot.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
32:37
SPEAKER_00: They just want accountability and change behavior, but that's really all they want.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: And if you if you continue to uh invalidate your your adult children by saying, that didn't happen.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: I did the best I could.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess I was just the worst parent ever.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh, how could you do this to me?
32:53
SPEAKER_00: You're breaking my heart.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: All of those things become about us and our feelings as parents.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: And it it we're not hearing what our children are saying because we're putting our own feelings front and center.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: And then we're just saying to the kids, what about me?
33:08
SPEAKER_00: What about my feelings?
33:10
SPEAKER_00: And the kids are like, Okay, so we started this conversation because I wanted to talk to you about my stuff.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: And now, once again, we're talking about your stuff.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: And that's what gets adult children frustrated, and that that's what makes them want to pull away is is the lack of accountability and responsibility.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: And it's hard to hear your kids say you messed up.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: It's so hard to have your kids go, you do know you messed up, right?
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, because we all tried the best we could.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: But you know what I often say to parents too, and I I say this with all the love I can muster.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: When it comes to the truth from your adult children, first it's gonna hurt, then it's gonna help you, then it's gonna heal you.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: But first it's gonna hurt.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: The truth from our adult children first is gonna hurt our feelings.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: There's no doubt it's gonna hurt our feelings.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: But then if you can hear them, it will help you to understand your children, and then it heals that bond.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh I'll share something personal because this happens every all this, it happens, like I said, to all of us.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: When our children, as adults, if they have a close enough relationship with you and they feel that they can that you that you're there will be no judgment and just love and trust and respect, they will be able to tell you the things that happened to them in their childhood.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: So because they a lot of our children are want want to be better.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: So when my my daughter brought something up, I immediately felt that, oof, right, I did that.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: And in and it, I didn't deny it.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: That's how she was feeling.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: But what I was able to do was say to her, can I share with you why I think I react, I did that.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: And then I said, and I'm sorry.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: And she literally said, I forgive you.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Like we're we're always we're always in healing and repairing mode, self-reflective, sharing.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: This is this is us trying to be better people and parents and helping our children to be better people.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know what is so hard for parents to say, I'm sorry.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, it it I think it's it stems from um many of us believe that a mistake when we were children, many of us were taught that that when you make a mistake, you should feel ashamed of yourself.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: Shame on you for making a mistake.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: Shame on you for making a mistake, shame, shame, shame.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of us, Gen X boomers, silent generation in particular, but a lot of us in that Gen X boomers uh scenario have been have been taught that mistake equals shame, not what mistake really is.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: What mistake is, is mistake equals opportunity for growth.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: That's really what a mistake is.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: A mistake is simply an opportunity for growth.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: But we have been indoctrinated to believe a mistake is shame, shame, shame.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: So when our kids bring up our quote unquote mistakes, we immediately feel shame and then we lash out because shame is a is a is is a very horrible, horrible feeling.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: And we feel ashamed of ourselves.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: And so rather than own that shame and look at that shame and figure out what that looks like, we deflect it and get mad at our kids.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: We turn it back to our kids and go, you're hurting my feelings by bringing up my by bringing up my uh failures, my my lack of success, my my mistakes.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: You're you're hurting my feelings.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, okay, I get that, but all we're trying to do is is get you to own your own behavior.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: But many people can't because that would it that to them is just too much shame.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: I I did the best I could, that's all I could do.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: Don't talk to me about the mistakes I made.
37:09
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I want to say to parents that whether or not reconciliation happens, I I do believe, and I know I'm a bit of a Pollyanna, I do, I do believe in this, that uh that you can uh come back from this, that you can do the work and heal.
37:26
SPEAKER_02: But whether or not that actually happens, choosing self-reflection means choosing growth.
37:34
SPEAKER_02: It's it's hard, but it's the only way that we can move forward in our lives.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: And during the estrangement, I knew that the only thing I figured out very early on through therapy that the only thing my kids want from me is growth.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: They want personal growth and they want me to be able to um be the best human being I possibly can be.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: That's all they've ever really wanted of me.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: So when I when they were no contact, even when I I would um I would think, oh, they'll never come back into my life.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: What's the use?
38:08
SPEAKER_00: I thought to myself, the use, the point of this is they wanted me to be the best version of myself that I could possibly be.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do that, whether they're in my life or they're not in my life.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give that gift to them, whether they get to receive it or they don't get to receive it, I'm gonna be the best version of me because that's all my my kids ever wanted for me was to be happy and healthy and whole.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: I just what can you suggest to a parent?
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, because you know, I I I always love offering like actionable steps with every episode.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: So for any parent listening, what advice do you have to help them work through their anger and feelings of rejection or even hopelessness?
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, I've got an ebook that I offer on online.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh it's 14 pages.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: It's it's called Understanding Estrangement.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: It is a workbook for parents whose children are distancing themselves from them.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: So uh it offers prompts and information.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: There's journaling prompts in there, there's lots of stuff in there for parents to work through to help them understand estrangement better.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Does that mean that you're going to reconcile?
39:19
SPEAKER_00: We don't know yet.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Understanding the estrangement is the first part.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: Why is this happening?
39:26
SPEAKER_00: And it helps you to self-reflect and go, what could my part in this have been?
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Just to eliminate myself, even if I don't believe that I'm part of the problem here with this estrangement.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: I can eliminate myself, right?
39:39
SPEAKER_00: So so I offer that on my on my uh Snit feed on my TikTok account, my Snitfeed account.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: Can so can I can we offer the listener a 50% off?
39:50
SPEAKER_02: I know that's steep, but can we offer them a code to get 50% off that that book from this show?
39:57
SPEAKER_02: Would would that be okay?
39:59
SPEAKER_02: So absolutely.
40:01
SPEAKER_02: Wow, okay, yeah.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Well let's do that.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's do it.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: What are we gonna call the code?
40:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh let's call it um launch 50.
40:10
SPEAKER_02: Launch 50.
40:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: Launch 50.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: And then the the the code, the um the link will be in the show notes here.
40:17
SPEAKER_02: They'll grab that link and then when they go to your site, they just enter launch 50 and they'll get 50% off that book.
40:24
SPEAKER_02: I think that's fantastic.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy that you did that because it's not enough just to keep listening.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, I know you are you have this wonderful following, um, and you do your lives, but there's there's just only nuggets.
40:37
SPEAKER_02: You can only give them nuggets.
40:38
SPEAKER_02: There's not that much they're gonna, they're not gonna walk away from a live going, I've got the answer.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: We need we need the material.
40:44
SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm really pleased that you did that.
40:47
SPEAKER_02: So I hope I do.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: It's my first, it's my first ebook.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: It's going over quite well.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting some really good feedback on it.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, so I'd love to offer that at 50% off.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: That sounds like a good deal.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Let's do that.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good, good.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: I always love to leave on a positive note.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: Usually the positive note is you know something like for the parent.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: But in this case, I want to know what are you most hopeful about going forward?
41:17
SPEAKER_00: I am most hopeful going forward that I can continue my healing journey so that I can offer the best version of myself to my children.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: I am hope most hopeful to get to know my my children as adults because the image that I had of what my children were supposed to be like, it was way off who they actually are, how egotistical of me.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: But I I I'm getting to know them now.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting to know who they are, what's important to them.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: What do they like, what don't they like, what would they prefer or not prefer?
41:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, some of the things that they've experienced that they've never told me about.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm just so hopeful for that and my future with my grandkids.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Crystal, thank you again for joining me and sharing this new version of your story.
42:10
SPEAKER_02: I honestly only hope that good things continue to happen for you because truly you deserve it.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you so much.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I hope maybe to come back on again at some point and have another update of whatever that should look like.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: Keep making beautiful changes in your life and share them with us.
42:33
SPEAKER_02: Sounds good.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: If anybody wants to reach you, your contact information will be in the show notes, as with the link to your workbook at 50% off with code launch 50.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: All right, we'll talk soon.
42:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay, thanks so much, Shere.
42:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
42:51
SPEAKER_02: Bye.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: Bye.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: If you found this topic helpful, feel free to leave a comment and hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
43:10
SPEAKER_02: Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you.
43:24
SPEAKER_02: It's free advice that will appear in your inbox probably when you need it the most.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential question.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: Talk to you soon.