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Blues Clues Creator Angela Santomero on Raising Creative Kids · Raising Daughters

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Hey friends, doctor Tim Jordan here with you the brand
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: new podcast on Raising Daughters. And as you know, sometimes
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I have guests on the show. I've had a bunch lately.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I go off and on over time. But I have
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  Speaker 1: a guess that I interviewed I think three years ago.
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  Speaker 1: I believe and loved that interview, and so I saw
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  Speaker 1: that she had some new children's books out and she's
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  Speaker 1: also doing some incredible things with child childhood education. So
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  Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to her again, first about her books,
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  Speaker 1: but also about what she's doing in the world, because
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  Speaker 1: she's really at the forefront of really helping with kids
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  Speaker 1: education using media. So my guess is Angela Santemero. Am
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  Speaker 1: I saying that?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 1: I'm half Italian, so I'm hoping that's so. She began
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  Speaker 1: her career by co creating Blues Clues. Put that in
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  Speaker 1: your mind, and that was about thirty years ago, right, yes? Wow?
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  Speaker 1: And that revolutionized the world off kids TV. It debuted
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  Speaker 1: I think in nineteen ninety six at Nickelodeon, and there's
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  Speaker 1: a pioneering interactive first format. It became a global phenomenon,
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  Speaker 1: got critical acclaim it redefined early childhood education on the screen.
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  Speaker 1: And spawned a huge, multi billion dollar business and franchise
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  Speaker 1: that continues today and with Blues Clues in You, among
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  Speaker 1: other things. She also is a person who created the
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  Speaker 1: TV series which my grandsons love, Daniel the Tiger's Neighborhood.
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  Speaker 1: They love Daniel the Tiger and also Super Why. And
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  Speaker 1: she then she then founded Out of the Blue Enterprise,
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  Speaker 1: which is an independent production studio and they are developing, producing,
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  Speaker 1: and licensing award winning priests series for major global networks.
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  Speaker 1: I saw you on your CV thing that was acquired
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  Speaker 1: by nine Story Media Group, one of the largest children's
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  Speaker 1: entertainment companies, and she was annoyed. The chief creative Officer.
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  Speaker 1: What a great title overseeing a global creed, creative strategy,
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  Speaker 1: brand extensions and all kinds of things. And she recently
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  Speaker 1: launched a Make a Kids Show which is a comprehensive
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  Speaker 1: masterclass and creator education platform designed to mentor the next
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  Speaker 1: generation of children's storytellers. So you have done a lot
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  Speaker 1: and you only look like you're at twenty years old.
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  Speaker 1: That's amazing. That so thank you for coming back to
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  Speaker 1: throughout the podcast. I really appreciate it.
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  Speaker 2: Of course, thank you so much for having me. I'm
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  Speaker 2: excited to also talk about Princess Penelope.
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  Speaker 1: Yah's start there. So for those of you who are
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  Speaker 1: looking at this at home, there's two books about Princess Penelope.
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  Speaker 1: So tell me about how you were a motivated or
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  Speaker 1: inspired to create these two books.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was thinking about the reverse blues clues, right, like,
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  Speaker 2: what would it feel like or what would it be
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  Speaker 2: like if we could have three things instead of go
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  Speaker 2: and look for three clues? And the idea of critical
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  Speaker 2: thinking skills as a foundation for a series was really
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  Speaker 2: important to me because I find it really hard to
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  Speaker 2: figure out what we're going to teach our kids that
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  Speaker 2: they're going to need, you know, as adults. But what
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  Speaker 2: we know is they need to creatively problem solve and
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  Speaker 2: you know, be able to critically think about things. And
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  Speaker 2: so I started to kind of go down that road
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  Speaker 2: in terms of how to create a show that would
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  Speaker 2: have all of that in there plus be sparkly and
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  Speaker 2: adorable and have great characters and that whole world. Right,
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  Speaker 2: So I always start with the education and then I
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  Speaker 2: go up. So she's a kitten, princess Kitten of kindness.
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  Speaker 2: And so the series launched on YouTube in February and
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  Speaker 2: we have seven point seven over seven to have a
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  Speaker 2: million views since February, which is like for an original series,
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  Speaker 2: it's crazy. And then the books came out in April
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  Speaker 2: end of April, and so I have the first the
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  Speaker 2: two books that are illustrated by the same illustrators that
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  Speaker 2: did the YouTube series, and so it's really pretty. The
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  Speaker 2: books are really pretty as well, and tell the books
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  Speaker 2: tell the story of the first episode.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the things I love about that first book,
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  Speaker 1: Chriss Penelope Penelope's Purse of Preposterous Things. I hope I
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  Speaker 1: said that right, is that there's a dragon and he
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  Speaker 1: roars and he creates a mischief and he feels like
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  Speaker 1: nobody likes him. And so one of the things and
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  Speaker 1: I teach just the kids all the time my retreats
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  Speaker 1: in camps, is that behind people's behavior, there's always something underneath,
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  Speaker 1: like their anger and their outer stuff, and so if
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  Speaker 1: we don't take the time to learn that, then they
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  Speaker 1: just keep with that behavior. But in your book, well,
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  Speaker 1: tell you, tell, tell about what they find about the dragon?
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  Speaker 2: Well exactly, I mean two things. One is you know
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  Speaker 2: about dragon's got to do what dragon's got to do,
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  Speaker 2: So you don't want to change dragon, right, like, we
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  Speaker 2: don't want to change him for who he is, that's
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  Speaker 2: who he is, but how can we use his fire
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  Speaker 2: for good? And I think again, like that metaphor is
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  Speaker 2: important for kids to think about how we can be
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  Speaker 2: helpful ask the questions. In later episodes, we have to
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  Speaker 2: ask Dragon a little bit more about why he's you know,
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  Speaker 2: more fire breathing today than normal. And as you said,
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  Speaker 2: you know, when you lean in empathetically and with kindness,
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  Speaker 2: even if it doesn't work the first time, eventually they'll
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  Speaker 2: be able to talk to you about what's going on.
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  Speaker 2: And so I love the idea that a dragon is
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  Speaker 2: still a dragon, but we're just gonna We're going to
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  Speaker 2: turn it into into something good. And that Penelope is
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  Speaker 2: constantly jumping into help as a little kid. No matter
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  Speaker 2: how big Dragon is or the problem is, she'll still
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  Speaker 2: try to figure out how to help, and she doesn't
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  Speaker 2: always succeed. So we want that resilience, you know, and
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  Speaker 2: we want to know. We want to know too that
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  Speaker 2: like any problem can be solved no matter how silly
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  Speaker 2: or ridiculous, you know, like you feel like either the
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  Speaker 2: problem is or what you have in your Like for her,
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  Speaker 2: it's like what she has to actually solve these problems
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  Speaker 2: are kind of silly and preposterous, but like anything can
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  Speaker 2: be solved, and that's kind of also an important message.
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  Speaker 2: I think for kids.
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  Speaker 1: It gives agency. Like I think parents today do a
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  Speaker 1: lot for kids, and they solve their problems and rescue
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  Speaker 1: and all that. It's a cliche, but I think it's
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  Speaker 1: sort of true in my experience. And so what you
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  Speaker 1: show with Princess Penelope is that she's very resourceful and
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  Speaker 1: she has way more going for her than I think
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  Speaker 1: most adults would give her credit for.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right, that's what That's what we bonded about,
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  Speaker 2: I think last time when we spoke, because the idea
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  Speaker 2: that kids are so smart and giving them that respect
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  Speaker 2: and credit and room to make mistakes and learn from them,
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  Speaker 2: I think is also so important.
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  Speaker 1: I just gave a talk yesterday to the Big Brothers
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  Speaker 1: and Big Sisters chapter here. I've been on the board
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  Speaker 1: for a long time time. But anyway, they're going through
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  Speaker 1: a lot of change and transition, and so there's you
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  Speaker 1: know what that comes unrest. So I was telling them,
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  Speaker 1: I guess I wasn't thinking about this, but we have
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  Speaker 1: something in our camps we call root pier feelings. So
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  Speaker 1: if you pour routier into a mug, you get rootier
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  Speaker 1: in the bottom, you get foe in the top, And
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  Speaker 1: if you keep pouring it feels up, you get more
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  Speaker 1: more foam until it spills over and makes a mess.
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  Speaker 1: So the metaphor is that the foam is like your anger,
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  Speaker 1: but underneath your anger, there's always another feeling that caused
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  Speaker 1: the anger. We call them root pier feelings, sad or
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  Speaker 1: heard or filling, left out or whatever. So I was
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  Speaker 1: talking yesterday about routier feelings to this group, about how
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of fear and you know that comes
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  Speaker 1: with change and transition, but underneath that is other things
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  Speaker 1: they need to access. I think that's kind of what
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  Speaker 1: Princess Penelope did.
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  Speaker 2: For the dragon totally. I mean, I do think that
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  Speaker 2: fear and anger is a first right, like that, It's
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  Speaker 2: like the first emotion that a lot of people, a
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  Speaker 2: lot of kids go to and trying to decipher what
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  Speaker 2: the real cause is really important. I like that. I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to use that root beer root beer feelings.
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  Speaker 1: I'll send you a handout.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I love it, Okay, I'm.
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  Speaker 1: Curious about there's a lot of worry today about kids
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  Speaker 1: and they're spending so much time on devices and social media,
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  Speaker 1: and schools are so you know, hyper focus on math
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  Speaker 1: and you know, reading those things, and that sometimes people worry,
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  Speaker 1: including me, that that creativity is taking a back seat
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  Speaker 1: in the educational system and or just in our society.
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  Speaker 1: I'm curious if you've if you have the same feeling.
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  Speaker 2: I do think the arts are the first thing that's cut.
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  Speaker 2: It's the first thing that people think are frivolous, right,
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  Speaker 2: and that you is, of course we want, you know.
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  Speaker 2: I think that the literacy scores are down by thirty
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  Speaker 2: percent right now, and so that is of course very
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  Speaker 2: very important. But the more creative depending on the age
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  Speaker 2: of the kid, but still the more creative you can
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  Speaker 2: be when any of any of the math, reading, any
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  Speaker 2: of the high order skills that kids need. We need
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  Speaker 2: that creativity under it to kind of motivate. I think
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  Speaker 2: I always think it's a really it's a really important piece,
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  Speaker 2: of course, uh. And I think the socio emotional and
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  Speaker 2: the school readiness piece also gets kind of like moved away,
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  Speaker 2: right because it's also seemingly like for a lesson. Yet
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  Speaker 2: you need to know how to like sit still and
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  Speaker 2: and listen to something before you're even gonna ever learn anything.
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  Speaker 2: So it's like it's very complicated. I think today teachers
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  Speaker 2: have such a hard time parents too, with everything that's
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  Speaker 2: going on in media, so in social media. So I
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  Speaker 2: do think it's difficult, right, But yeah, exactly when arts
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  Speaker 2: is the first thing cut, I.
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  Speaker 1: Think, I think many people are worried rightly, So, I think,
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  Speaker 1: and I see this with my retreats and camsit there's
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  Speaker 1: a lot of girls today who have higher levels of
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  Speaker 1: stress and anxiety and and those source of things in
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  Speaker 1: the culture. And I think using creativity, writing, journaling, art,
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  Speaker 1: all those kinds of things your imagination, I'm pears if
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  Speaker 1: what you would say about that the important thing?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's really really important. I think being
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  Speaker 2: able to get your feelings out. And that's what we
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  Speaker 2: used to tell my girls too, you know, writing a song,
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  Speaker 2: writing a poem, writing writing anyway that you can get
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  Speaker 2: it out. And I do think that's what creativity does, right,
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  Speaker 2: whether you're painting or singing really loud, or you know,
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  Speaker 2: doing anything and that sort of creative side, you're using
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  Speaker 2: that other side of your brain. And I just think
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  Speaker 2: it's so important and it does it, we know, right,
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  Speaker 2: it eases anxiety.
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  Speaker 1: If you go back in time a bit, back to
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  Speaker 1: the days of Blues Clues and Daniel the Tiger, would
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  Speaker 1: you learn about kids, about parenting, about what kids need
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  Speaker 1: from that whole process. I'm sure you learned a lot.
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  Speaker 2: I did learn a lot and Blues Clues. When Blue
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  Speaker 2: clo started, I didn't have any kids. My daughters were born.
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  Speaker 2: During the transition of Steve to Donovan to Joe, who
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  Speaker 2: was our second host, I was like on set nine
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  Speaker 2: months pregnant, being like, I just need to get this
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  Speaker 2: episode done and then a transition and over to the
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  Speaker 2: new host and I can go have a baby. So,
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  Speaker 2: you know the I learned so much about how personal
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  Speaker 2: it is like once you did. Once I did become
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  Speaker 2: a mother, it was like, I am now making this
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  Speaker 2: smart media for my girls, and it becomes so personal.
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  Speaker 2: But I did learn a lot about that pausing, like
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  Speaker 2: that interactivity piece, right Like I Steve like would get
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  Speaker 2: really close to the camera and pause, and parents really
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  Speaker 2: didn't like they learned about the pause through that a
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  Speaker 2: lot of them and they didn't really see that level
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  Speaker 2: of interactivity. They didn't think their kids were going to
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  Speaker 2: interact and the kids were just so happy to unleash
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  Speaker 2: right and start talking back to Steve and learning and whatever.
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  Speaker 2: And so I get parents still today to say, like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I learned how to how to be quiet a little
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  Speaker 2: bit after I asked my son or daughter a question,
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  Speaker 2: and then what they have to say is so interesting,
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  Speaker 2: and that's like, you know, that's the best thing.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I read the story well back. It's one of
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  Speaker 1: my favorite stories. I have a lot of stories in
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  Speaker 1: my bag of tricks, but this one was about these
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  Speaker 1: two sisters that were out playing one day on their own,
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  Speaker 1: and one of them fell into a well. The older
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  Speaker 1: sister and the younger sister found some vines and made
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: them into the rope, and she threw it down, and
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  Speaker 1: then she pulled and pulled and pulled. Took her a
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  Speaker 1: long time. She finally pulled her sister outther well, and
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  Speaker 1: they ran back to the village of telling people what happened,
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  Speaker 1: and nobody believed them. Nobody believed that this little girl
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  Speaker 1: could possibly pull them out, So they took the girls
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  Speaker 1: the whole town to the wise man. They said, you know,
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  Speaker 1: do you think that that could have happened? Or do
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  Speaker 1: you think that they're lying? And the wise man immediately said,
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  Speaker 1: I believe that she did it. And they said why,
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  Speaker 1: They said, because there was no adults there to tell
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  Speaker 1: them they couldn't.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, that's so good.
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  Speaker 1: I think a lot of times we don't. I think
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  Speaker 1: parents are just as busy and stressed as their kids
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  Speaker 1: and distracted on their phone. It's the whole old story,
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  Speaker 1: but it's true. And so I think a lot of
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  Speaker 1: times nobody time for those pauses, if you will, even
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  Speaker 1: like you know, in real life, much as with the
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  Speaker 1: TV screen.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and also we want to shield them, like the
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  Speaker 2: first thought is to shield kids also from everything, and
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  Speaker 2: then they don't necessarily learn because we need that failure
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  Speaker 2: to learn right and that level of resilience. And so
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  Speaker 2: it's hard, it's really hard. I agree with you. I
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  Speaker 2: think parents are just distressed as kids.
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  Speaker 1: How do you think the characters that you've created and
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  Speaker 1: they're on the screen, how do you think that they
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  Speaker 1: shape kids and how they see others, treat others, value others.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the hope and the summative and longitudinal research
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  Speaker 2: will show that kids are modeling and learning because of
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  Speaker 2: the interactivity they practice the skills that we put they
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  Speaker 2: don't just model it, but from like an empathy and
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  Speaker 2: kindness perspective. It's throughout every show that I've ever done,
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  Speaker 2: ten shows now, throughout every show there's just it's just
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  Speaker 2: you model it. Like Daniel Tiger's holding the door open
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  Speaker 2: for somebody that's coming in. If you know somebody needs help,
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  Speaker 2: they don't even have to ask. He can, like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: help mom set the table, like just the little things
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  Speaker 2: that you do when you're three, four or five. And
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  Speaker 2: I just think that the more that you see it
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  Speaker 2: and the more that you do it, the more that
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  Speaker 2: we know kids are going to adopt that versus us
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  Speaker 2: telling them what they need to do. Right, If Daniel
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  Speaker 2: Tiger does it, it's a lot easier to swallow and
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  Speaker 2: to understand than if mom is telling you or Dad
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  Speaker 2: is telling you what to do. So I've noticed a
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  Speaker 2: lot of positive pro social behaviors, and the research shows
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  Speaker 2: that too. Even thirteen years later, apparently, kids who grew
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  Speaker 2: up with Daniel Tiger still remember the little song strategies
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  Speaker 2: that we put in the show and they use them later.
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  Speaker 2: So when they're disappoint pointed or they're angry, they think
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  Speaker 2: about the silly little song that we used to sing
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  Speaker 2: back when they were preschoolers, and they actually use it
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  Speaker 2: in their life, which is so cool to think that
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  Speaker 2: that's you know, that that's nothing.
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  Speaker 1: That's awesome. And it makes sense because I think kids
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  Speaker 1: learn a lot through their creativity through songs, through you know,
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  Speaker 1: through people who are interesting to them and fun, as
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  Speaker 1: opposed to a lecture or a you know, like a
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  Speaker 1: didactic book or whatever. I think that it makes sense
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  Speaker 1: that they would remember things like songs or pictures or
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  Speaker 1: that character who looks at them and comes to the screen.
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  Speaker 1: My oldest grandson, he's now eight, but when he was little,
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  Speaker 1: he carried around a Daniel to Tiger everywhere he went.
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  Speaker 1: That was his favorite character.
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  Speaker 2: Of all the you know, the character my favorite character
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  Speaker 2: during Mister Rogers Neighborhood. That's why Daniel had to be
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  Speaker 2: the star, because I loved Daniel Tiger so much when
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I was little.
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  Speaker 1: I'm curious. I'm sure you've read a lot of children's
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: books in What you Do. What are your favorite ones
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  Speaker 1: and why?
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  Speaker 2: You know, way back when when I was a babysitter
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  Speaker 2: where I would babysit a million kids all the time,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I would read The Monster at the end of this
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  Speaker 2: book because I loved that. I just launched at the
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  Speaker 2: end of this book, It's sweet street book. It's Grover,
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  Speaker 2: and Grover is like, oh my gosh, there's a monster
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  Speaker 2: at the end of this book. Don't turn the page.
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  Speaker 2: And then when you would turn the page something, he'd
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: be like, oh my gosh, you turned the page. It
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  Speaker 2: was so silly and so cute, and I still recommend
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  Speaker 2: it today. The Pitt you know, Moe Williams books, I
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  Speaker 2: was a you know, Pitt Don't Let the Pigeon Joice
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  Speaker 2: kind of a similar story. Kevin Henke's books Chrysanthemum. I
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  Speaker 2: love those picture books. Uh. There was also a third
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  Speaker 2: grade book like, in addition to like Hardy Boys, Nancy
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  Speaker 2: jew I like, I love the classics, there's one called
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: No Flying in the House that kids loved. It was
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  Speaker 2: so great and so fun, you know, like I just I, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I loved the When I was younger, they were like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I think you read every book in the library. That's
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  Speaker 2: like the kind of kid I was. And then my kids,
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  Speaker 2: you know, Harriet the Spy was a big one. They
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  Speaker 2: read that. You know, it's so fun to share the
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: books that you loved with kids, right it's yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's also I think I think a lot of adults
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  Speaker 1: can look back and they'll remember books that made a difference.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: I remember I read a story about Jane Goodall, and
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I remember she said, the first time she read about
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Curious George, she loved it, and she didn't want to
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: be Curious George. She wanted to be the man in
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the yellow hat right from the start, and so she
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: read all this series and then that's what that's how
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: she got her inspiration, because she wanted to go to
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Africa and study the monkeys like the man in the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: yellow hat.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: I love that. That's so cute. I never heard that.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: So I think a lot of people have. Adults can
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: look back to children's literature and those sorts of things
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and where they found inspiration for something in their lives.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I think so too. I agree.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: So what's on the on the front plate now on
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: the front burner.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: In my work, it's this YouTube series. So I don't
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: like what's on YouTube for kids? I am. I love
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: the idea of it, and it's that it's user generated
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: and anybody can put stuff out there creatively is amazing.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: But when it comes to the little kids, I really
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: care obviously we all do, but about their brain development
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: and their emotional development, and so I had to get
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: into the game in order to change it, in my opinion,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: like get into the game and try to up the
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: level of quality. Figure out if I could do it.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Could I animate on my own like all of those
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: things after thirty years, not that I'm the one animating,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: but not with like a big company behind me or anything.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: And I love it. I love it. I love it.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I love it. It's really fun to play with a
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: character that again is looking at the kids at home
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: and asking them to come in and there, and the
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: kids are doing it, Like we're doing a ton of
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: research that kids are learning from it, and that you
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: know how we're trying to understand their attention span on
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: YouTube to try to make that a little bit longer,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: and having all those analytics there understanding how kids are
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: watching so that we can make sure they're learning has
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: been really really interesting to me. So I've been down
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: that road with Princess Penelope. So we have we have
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: two more books for her coming out in November, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: then I produce and we produced one new two new
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: episodes a week on YouTube kids. So that's my that's
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: where right now, that's like my motion.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: So, so Princess Penelope is these books on the on
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the YouTube on YouTube. I didn't make that connection, sir.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called Princess Penelope Official. So if you can
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: get some more subscribers for me, that would be awesome
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: because the views are there. You have to keep saying that,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: and I don't know, I am so bad at that.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: So if people were I'll put it in my show
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: notes if people were to, fine, it's Princess Penelope.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the YouTube handle, and then it's on YouTube kids,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: if you have that app, it's free or it's on YouTube.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Regular if you would tell me a little bit and
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: let me just me our listeners about your new masterclass,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: because that sounds so fascinating.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, so my masterclass is about how to make a
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: kid show from my perspective. And so because I come
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: from a child development background and a psychology background, everyone
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: who I've worked with understand this formative research process that
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: we do, which is three different phases of research at
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: a script stage and then all the way through the
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: process of animation to make sure we're meeting the goals.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: But not people are doing it, but not a lot
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: of people outside of our industry who want to break
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: in have ever had this kind of class to talk
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: about how you can use research to help your creativity,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: how you should have a curriculum at the foundation, but
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: also how do you create an immersive world? Like I'm
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: always like, think of a theme park, what's your show?
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Is your show a theme park? Like? Thinking about all
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: of the different aspects of a series to make it
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: a brand. And so I just started to write a
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: work book to help I talk to a lot of
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: new creators all the time. So I started to write
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: a work book and then it turned into a digital
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: class so that people can watch it when they want
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: to watch it and download it when they want to
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: download it. But then we have a live community where
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: we meet up every month and talk about everyone's process,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: about what they want to share, any updates, ask more
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: questions so that I can personally answer them. And we
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: were saying that community is the most supportive and you know,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: really cares about kids. And so you know, this class
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: has been really it's been really satisfying.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I would think too, for two things, what kind of
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: creators are you attracting? What kind of people are a good.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Fit so many different kinds. There are people who studied psychology,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: there are people who studied production, there are people in
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: the music industry, book authors, a ton of different people
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: who've always just had like teachers, who've had the interest
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: and have been writing and scribbling and trying to figure
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: out how to put something together. And so that's what
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: the focus is on the creative of the brand, and
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: we end up talking about how do you sell the show?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Da da da da. But the focus of the show,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: the focus of the digital series rather is all the
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: creative of the storylines, the story arcs, the character building,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: all of that stuff.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And is there is there room in the industry. I
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: know there's all kinds of stuff if you on all
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: the channels and everything, but I assume for good quality
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: there's always a room. But is there room for new stuff?
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I mean it's crowded for sure, and our industry is
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: going through a ton of changes. You know, everywhere you
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: read it's you know, kids, there's a difference. But YouTube
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: is growing so big that my feeling is anyone who
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: wants to do something for kids should have this in
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: their head right, whether it's a book, whether it's anything
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: for kids should just think about how we're affecting them
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: when we tell a story, so it's not just for you,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: it's also think about the audience. And I just have
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: never really found a class that did that. So yeah,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: I think we need more authentic voices, right, We need
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: people to tell stories from their point of view as
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: opposed to people who've done it before and just keep
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: doing it again, you know. So I love the newer generation.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I love hearing about a different way to look at
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: things right than I've done in thirty years. Like, I
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: just that those kids that young, you know, as they're
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: coming up, it's just fascinating. Plus also just everyone's story
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: is so different. So I always think that there's a
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: room if it's an authentic, genuine story that thinks about kids,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: respects kids.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I don't think too for young people or maybe anybody,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: but I'm thinking of young people like college age or
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: twenty somethings. That it's easy to get support if you
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: want to be a doctor or a lawyer or excuse
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: me that those sorts of things are a chemist, but
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: there probably isn't much support out there for people who
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: who want to do what you do and want to
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: make children programming.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's true, and you can either learn production,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: you can learn writing. There can be one or two
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: classes on kids, but not that I had to cobble
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: it together. When I got my masters, I like cobbled
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: together a bunch of different things from child development to
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: production to writing to create the masters that I wanted
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: super wide was actually my master's thesis so that I
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: could like work through how that would look. But yeah,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: it's very few and far between, and that's kind of
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: also why I did it, Like I really wanted, I
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: really wanted to make sure that that was out there.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Like the way to approach it, if you are open
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: to it, way that you approach it is through this
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: curriculum lens and this child development lens that can also
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: be funny and creative and you know, doesn't hold you back.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: It's just also thinking about the audience. And what I
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: found in my work is that the more you think
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: about the kids, the bigger the brand end up becomes becoming. Anyway,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: so it's good for business also, like if you're if
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: people are worried about that, like there are some people
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: who think if it's researched backed, maybe it won't be
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: as funny or comedic, and I'm like, why that doesn't
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: have anything one doesn't have anything to do with the other.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: It's still creative first, right, So anyway, so I just
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: wanted to make sure that was out there somewhere.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking with Angela Santemiro, who is, amongst other things,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the author of two new books that came out recently
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: called it's called the Pris's Penelope Series. I guess the
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: first was Principschrists Penelope's Purse of Preposterous Things, and the
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: second was Dragon's Marshmallow Mess. I'll put the names of
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: those books in my show notes. You know, I read
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: a story a long time ago about Bobby Brown, the
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: cosmetic lady, and she was struggling in like high school
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and didn't want to go to college, and her parents
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: were saying you had to go to college and all this,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: and they finally said, what do you want to do?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: And she said, I want to do makeup, and they said, well,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: let's check it out. So she looked all around. There
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: was no degree in makeup, and so she found a college.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I think it was Emerson University, maybe up in the
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: East Coast perhaps, I think that's what it was, and
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: so they allowed her to create her own major, kind
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: of like what you did. So she took some classes
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: and photography and some classes and makeups, some classes in
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: this and some classes in that. So she cobbled together,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: like I think that was your word, her own major
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: to you know, to sort of create a background to
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: give her to launch I think maybe the largest cosmetics
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: industry or company in the world. So I think that
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I think that's what people sometimes have to do, especially
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: in a creative kind of in creative fields, is it
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: may not be totally laid out. You're laying out something
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: with your masterclass, but they may have to take some
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: psychology and some children's that you and read book and
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: read children's books and in order to kind of come
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: to come to their background.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I guess yeah, I agree. And you know, it's so interesting.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: We've had people try to write a Blues Clue script
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: and they come to me and they're like, oh my god,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: I really thought it was going to be so easy,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: you know, I really thought it wasn't going to be
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: a big deal and it would take me five minutes.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, there's so many layers, right. I
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: talk about it as a seven layer cake, because there's
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: so many layers that you put into it. But then
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: of course it has to taste good at the end.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Our kids won't watch it, So it's deceptive, like children's
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: books are deceptively simple, just like poems. You know, it's
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: like deceptive, And so I think that the best ones
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: are the ones that are as layered as possible. And
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: the more you the more you watch, or the more
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: you dig in, you realize all the layers in it.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Well, if you have ten one final question, how do
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: you how do you would you how would you suggest
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: parents choose books, choose stories, choose TV kinds of things
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: that would support their child's emotional development. I think it's
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: good to entertain kids, but also think that there's like yours.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: All have lots of layers of education and empathy and
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: all those kinds of things. So how comeparents find things
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: like yours?
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think there's a couple of ways. I mean,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: I always say, if you're looking specifically, start with what
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: your child is interested in, and then go from there,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: right so that you can see whether or not a
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: story is taking you on a creative journey or is
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: it taking you in more of the factual journey, make
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: sure that it's correct, see if who the author is,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: see who the creators are if you can. But I
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: also think we can add that level of education into
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: things too, like asking the questions of our kids as
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: they're reading, as they're playing the view and do of
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: it all right, because I think one of the things
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I want people to understand and see the quality behind things, right,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Like you could understand if somebody has taken care of
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: it because you can hear the curriculum behind it, or
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: you can hear them like asking kids, you know, like
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: the interactive thing usually gives it away that it's education.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: But there's no shame, right, parents have enough stress and
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: enough shame, you know, so you don't need that. It's
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: more about like are your kids interested in it? Let's
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: find out why, and then now let's add stuff to it.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: So if I'm interested in dinosaurs, I'm just going to
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: keep adding all the different kind of dinosaur things until
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I figure out like that aspect of it that they're
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: satiated with that information. Yeah, is not a good answer.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: It's a long answer.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: That's a good answer. So if people are interested in
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: your masterclass or other things that you do, how can
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: they get a hold of you.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: So, Angela's Clues is my social media and make a
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Kids Show dot com is my masterclass. You can. I
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: also put all of this information in my social on Instagram, Facebook,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: and TikTok, so that's called make akidshow dot com. And
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: then the books are everywhere. Books are sold Amazon, Barnes,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: and Noble everywhere. And then YouTube is the series YouTube
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Princess Penelope Official subscribe.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming back on. I know
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: you're a busy bee. Yes, thank you.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I know today is the day I'm doing a lot.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you well, thank I appreciate you coming on. And
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: also best of luck with the series.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: I liked them. I'm one of our granddaughters is coming
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: into town next week. She's only fifteen months, but oh
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: so I'm gonna read these books to her. I've been
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: They've been in my desk making waiting for her to come.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: She lives.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Let me know, let me know what you think.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Know what she thinks. She's I'm sure she's brilliant because
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: she's a Jordan. But anyway, Angela Santa Marro, thanks so much.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Now I will put these all these links to find
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: you on my show.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Notes, thank you, thank you so much.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Well, that was great. I really enjoy her as Yes,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: it was the second time I've had Angela Santa Mario
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: on the show, and again I will I will have
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the links that she mentioned pluss in order to for
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: the two new books of Princess Penelopees series. It's amazing,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: what amazing woman, very creative. I'm so it's so inspiring
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: that someone with that kind of creative background has found
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: success like in the real world, because I think a
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: lot of parents get worried if their daughters are looking
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: at creative fields, whether it's art or whether it's writing,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: or whether it's things of that sort. It's like, you
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: can't ever take care of yourself, you won't be able
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: to make it living, and they get discouraged, and so
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: it's it's really inspirational that someone starting thirty thirty years
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: ago has accomplished what she's accomplished. So thank you as
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: always for stopping by here. This would be a fun
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: one to listen to what your daughters, maybe because a
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: lot of them may have read the Daniel the Tiger
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: books or the I've Seen Blues Clues and all that
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: sort of thing, and then look at look on YouTube
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: for the Princess Penelopees series right now. I think there's
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: two episodes for the two books, and there's two more
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: coming out she said, I think she said, I think
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: she said this summer, so you can also look for those.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I'll be back here with a brand new podcast with
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: a brand new topic in a week, so enjoy your week,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and thank you so much as always for stopping by.