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What If Value Analysis Became The Front Door To Better Healthcare Decisions · Taking The Supply Chain Pulse

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Taking the Supply Chain Pulse.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Megan with StayNodge Company, and we're glad you're with us.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, Fred welcomes back Bob Yogel for a timely conversation on the future of value analysis and its growing impact on healthcare organizations.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Together, they explore how value analysis can help healthcare systems reduce costs, drive smarter decision making, and strengthen patient care at a time when financial and operational challenges continue to intensify.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: They'll also discuss emerging trends, best practices, and what healthcare leaders should be doing today to prepare for tomorrow's challenges.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now here's your host, Fred Kranz.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to start out, Bob.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: First off, thanks for joining us.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me, Fred.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I wanted to I wanted to start off with something that you had mentioned to me.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you had talked about the fact that that your father, who was a real pioneer in value analysis, Robert Yokel Sr., right, um, uh had a regular recurring column in HPN, as did I, and and uh, you know, you used to read both of them.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: You're probably one of three or four people that read mine, but everybody read his.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh I I think it's I think and and you have continued that uh tradition of contributing to the to the good of the discipline by uh putting stuff out there for people to uh read and learn from.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Could you talk a little bit about your dad and about and about sort of what what kind of uh impact he had on you and and uh what made you want to uh carry on the torch?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm actually my 33rd year in uh in uh the business my father started, my father had his pass two years ago.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, he was in healthcare material management from the late 60s, uh, you know, material manager, vice president of support services, and and working for consulting firms, and then he went out on his own.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so he, as far as value analysis, he was right there at the very beginning with the purchasing managers association.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, you know, that that they had that.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so he was really all always a big proponent of that, even when you know they were still getting reimbursed dollar for dollar, you know, uh in those days.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh imagine that today.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so he always was a writer and he always believed in that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um he you know, some bellwethers uh encouraged him, like Charles Housley, to write more.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's actually in the edited book of um healthcare uh standardization that Charles Housley edited.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's a group of writers that he put their best practices in there with that.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so he has always been a longtime writer.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: We have a longtime newsletter.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we also publish healthcare value analysis and utilization management magazine.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I just follow writers out there, yourself one of them.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love your style, Fred.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: There is nobody that has ever written the way you write, it's such a unique style.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: You educate us, you tell us stories, you make us laugh, you make us cry.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, it's just your writing style is second to none, and I really appreciate that.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I have some my father was always a mentor with writing, yourself, Rick Dana Barlow, and his writing style style as well.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, some of the people that I always look up to with their writing style, and I'm like, I want to write like that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be poignant like that.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important to do that.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, AI can write articles for you today.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the same.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the same when it comes from the heart and true experience, is my thing.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you think about that?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, oh I I I agree with you.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: I I I think um AI is good.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: AI can be helpful, AI can be used if you want to get you want to get a basis on something real quickly, and you give them some parameters, but but nothing beats the the style and the input of the human.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um your dad, your dad was someone I always read.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've read an awful lot of your stuff.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Rick, of course, uh was uh the editor of HPN and he tolerated me for a long time.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I always thought I had a I had a uh professor at the University of Miama who said that the uh the object of great writing should be to educate and entertain.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I try that's what I try to do.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is I you want people to you know get something out of it but to enjoy it at the same time.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate your comments.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: I uh yeah, but being being second to none means that none is first.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm second.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I I don't I don't know about that one, but listeners out there, share your experience out there.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: You do things well, you probably have best practices here.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Write them, write them, submit them to out there.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I I I just to add on to that, I can't tell you the number of times I've gotten feed feedback from stuff I've written.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and I don't know about you, but when I write something and I I send it off, I you can tell most of the time by the uh by the uh typos in my stuff that I don't read it.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I have no clue what's going on.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then you'll find someone say, Oh, I I read this, I read that.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the other day I was every year I had been posting a um uh uh thing about my friend Freddie Fetter that died in Vietnam, a sort of a yearly thing.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: I posted it on Facebook this year, not LinkedIn.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh next day I got a call from his son.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: His son called me, and we talked for 40 minutes.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: You have no idea if you give back your knowledge and share it, you have no idea who you may be having an impact on.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I appreciate what you do, and I think anyone that does that, any anyone could do it, and more people should do it, I think.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I definitely agree.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely agree, and I appreciate it.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: I will still continue right, you know, looking at your articles, Fred, and I appreciate you what you do out there for that.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure you spell check them because I screw up with so let's talk about value analysis.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Where is value analysis going in 2026 and beyond?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it is, in my opinion, it's always been the one of the most important elements of a supply chain, even though it's historically not even thought of as being part of a supply chain, but it's the front end.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's what makes the decisions that decides what will be put into the supply chain.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: So where is it going?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: What is what do you think uh the future for value analysis is?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's first off, there's is as far as involvement in supply chain, it's really heavy, heavily involved in in everything from conversions to new product requests to uh recalls and and and managing problems, resilience issues.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, value analysis is really filling a gap that wasn't there for a long time in healthcare.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think it's coming full circle back in the day.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I started working in value analysis 30 years ago, 20 years ago, it it really was used for cost management purposes.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: The old McFall and Lyons, I might be dating myself, but McFall Lyons was a company that installed value analysis programs for specifically recommend to put recommendations in to reduce non-salary costs in there.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that a lot of healthcare uh supply chain genesis out there was from organizations like McFall and Lions.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Our company put them in as well.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Tom Hughes, his company's out there.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot that that, and you don't really know where did our value analysis team come from.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it might have been the Genesis, it could have been 10, 15, 20 years ago that those were installed.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think we're coming full circle in that I think we need to look to value analysis again for that cost management piece.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I always I call it savings beyond price.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got departments and contracting and GPOs and strategic sourcing getting that best price, but there's still something else there.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, the quantity you use, the products you select, you know, waste, inefficient use.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot that that that value analysis can still do with it, not to add more to their job with that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, as I remember at the very beginning of time when I started in healthcare, um, we had the new products committee.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, the names changed along the way.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: And the new products committee was there to rubber stamp anything that the doctor wanted and to be able to get it uh so that we could buy it so that individual doctors could use their individual stuff whenever they wanted.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Then it became the Product Standardization Committee because someone decided that if you standardize, you can uh uh reduce the number of storekeeping units that you have around and probably get better pricing.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then value analysis came in.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that you know, people like W.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: Edwards Deming that uh got into uh the idea of starting out by creating the requirements that uh that a good or service or a product needs to meet to serve a need as a front end, taking value analysis away from saying we have to have Kleenex and turning it into uh uh what are the what are the requirements for a for a facial tissue where all of a sudden now you can have multiple people, multiple people that could provide the service.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: And um I think that that is got it's gone into talk about this.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's gone from an overall generalist approach to now where value analysis has specific uh subcommittees and and in several departments and areas throughout a healthcare organization.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about that.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you're exactly on there.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's literally specialists inside.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're hiring OR managers and directors and bringing them in to lead the OR value analysis in health systems, you know, the periop, the the cardiology.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're hiring the specialists in there that work with the surgeons every single day.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's amazing.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that once they jump into supply chain, yes, they are somewhat subject matter experts, but you know, especially the nurses, and and the good thing about nurses, and I've written a lot of articles about it, you know, do you hire nurses or not?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, they bring a big thing to the table, which is that being inside that circle of trust, speaking the language.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, that is invaluable.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think we got to do a little bit better training them in supply chain uh, I guess, supply chain overall, how it all works quicker, better, um, so they understand that and you can plug them in even better.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, AVAP is doing a great job uh training them with the with the value analysis piece on that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot out there, but I think you could always use more training.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you're right, it's very specialized, all right.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um outside of that, you you know, I'm not a clinician, but it's taken it's a long learning curve to to learning all those products and learning all the nuance of that.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, value analysis can be used as it's really, as you mentioned, functional analysis.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: What is the function of that product and what are the specifications we need, and what can we find the lowest possible cost with equal or better quality?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's that simple when you look at it, yet it's very dynamic, very fluid.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're dealing with doctors, patients.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it it's a challenge to that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I I like what they're doing with with value analysis.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think they have to start looking at being more processed workflow systematized, you know, getting away from spreadsheets and things like that is probably what they need to do, but then they also need to look to the future.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And yep.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, one of the things I think that is driving things in a positive direction, um, aside from the fact that the constriction of uh revenue is uh can can continues to worsen.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: But the biggest change that I've seen in healthcare since I've been in is the the growth of uh IDN's integrated delivery network or systems versus the the standalone community hospitals.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you had a standalone community hospital in a place like Miami, where I started out, uh and within five miles of where I was working at Baptist Hospital, there was South Miami Hospital, there's Doctors Hospital in uh Coral Gables, there's Coconut Grove, and and the doctors were all the same doctors were on each of those staffs.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: So they had tremendous individual leverage.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: They could just threaten to go away.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and and uh folks would cave and get the doctors whatever they wanted.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, with the growth of the systems, uh in many places, the doctors are employed by the systems uh much more frequently and therefore uh are you know are have to be on board to uh sort of uh behave better, if you will.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's an important point.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you look at just new product request teams, you know, that the that the vetting, and that's probably could be 60, 70, 80 percent of what value analysis teams do focus on.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all those new systems and instrumentation and catheter system and EP mapping systems and all, those are new revenue sources for the organization.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually part of the pipeline of the revenue source of there.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you have to be aware of, you know, you just can't say no.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, nurses and and and analysis folks, they understand that, um, but we really got to be on point with that revenue point.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are we getting reimbursed?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, one best practice I've been talking about lately is you really got to put that through the ringer.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the days of saying, oh, the CPT code's there, the vendor's VACPAC says it'll it'll reimburse us X in our state.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's it let's do a trial, uh, you know, let's go.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then you find out, uh-oh, we're not making 10 procedures down the road.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't made a dime on any of them.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: They've been all, you know, we and and now we're, you know, whatever,$150,000 in the hole in those cases.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you it's it's good to get that pipeline right and and really focus on revenues as well as cost.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So and along that vein, do you think that clinicians and finance folks uh are more closely uh aligned now than they have been in the past?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're getting there.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: They are getting there.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the the revenue uh people should be part of the process.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: It should be a step in the process, not just getting CPT codes, but getting the the uh proformas from them and and and really you know making sure that these are all gonna reimburse at your level.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And just because one of your hospitals, you know, like the one doctor's hospital, the doc comes in and says, Oh, we're we're getting reimbursed, they're getting paid, they're making revenue off of it, and and you know, 15 miles away, the other hospital, we should be getting reimbursed.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: That does not always happen.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you really got to be careful there.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and as you say, in the age of revenue challenges, that that's one area that Vang analysis uh really needs to focus their attention on.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Not that we want to give more work, but uh like I said, tie it all together in your workflow.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: It should just be seamless, it's just part of your process moving forward.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so tell us, uh, is there still more value to be added with value analysis?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um talk about savings beyond price, revenue integrity, and clinical integration.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um an area that that I'm in and near and dear to my heart's uh probably for the past 20 years, benchmarking, tracking utilization beyond using what I call patient volume-centric metrics, which is adjusted patient days, patient days, cath lab cases, but applying them to all your CAF categories in the supply chain and tracking them over the short and long term, year over year, benchmarking them, benchmarking within a system.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just the other day, I was sitting there looking at um an IV category with a corporate director purchasing and saying, This this one hospital is your best practice, and the other three are running about 26% higher than your best practice hospital.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: You should at least be at your best practice in your system.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So forget, you know, forget about contracts for why are these other hospitals using more per adjusted patient day in this IV supply?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that every system should be doing that as a as a next level, but you've got to find time for that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do you, you know, when your agenda's full with everything, how do you how do you handle that?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And my thought is to say, you know, perhaps you need a clinical supply utilization committee.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have periop, we have maybe it's time.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do you what are your thoughts on that, Fred, knowing knowing your the history of this?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is that time for that?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not like that's anybody's job.
• 17:21
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• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, it isn't.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you a story.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Years ago, I was working for uh what is now Visiant as uh as one of their consultants, and we were one of the members in New England.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we're trying you're trying to you're trying to improve operations and reduce costs, and it doesn't all come from getting better prices.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And this place was this was a time when ionic and non-ionic contrast media was a big deal, right?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, this place was using 100% non-ionic contrast media, which costs at that time about 15 times more than the ionic stuff.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I, as and I was I was a mature supply chain leader, I wasn't a new guy, okay.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I told these folks, I said, you know, um the Cleveland Clinic, which is also a member of uh this of what is now Visiant, uh they have a protocol where where they 75% of their contrast media is ionic, uh, and uh only 25% is non-ionic.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: If you did this at your organization, you could be saving a half a million dollars a year.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the person I was telling to looked at me dead in the eyes and said, We are not the Cleveland Clinic, and we don't want to be.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: So getting folks to to really look into the way they they um put their their treatment processes together, uh, which I think is a real part of value analysis, is a very difficult and uh uh daunting task, but that's where the real effectiveness comes.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, getting uh getting uh your band-aids for two cents uh a box less ain't gonna do you much good.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: But but uh but finding, as you said earlier, a hospital with the best practice and the four that were 28% higher, ah trying coming learning how to sell that message correctly is I think a very important part of value analysis.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I totally agree.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really what I was doing, same thing as you were doing, you know, found the anomaly, and you know, you have to you have to go through that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And just think about it.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's just what both of us are speaking about.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's two categories we're speaking about.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all right.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: My savings was just along the same lines as your savings, that five half a million dollars.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's only two categories, and there could be, you know, five hundred major categories and supplies and even more with others.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it it it is a challenging type of thing to get in there and it, but it's not it's not the world.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Can't you just get a better price?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're already standardized.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's the that's the uh they ought to print that in every uh in every uh hospital.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh can't you just get a better price?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: So because it's never died since I've been around.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, what should supply chain leaders be looking for from their value analysis program leaders to up their game?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh I think value analysis leaders need to think about um take a step back, maybe do a little planning.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I think they need to do some benchmarking of other programs out there.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um as as uh uh my colleague uh James Russell down there in uh in Houston always talks about.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, if you've seen one value analysis program, you've seen one value analysis program.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that that is so everyone is we're all doing similar work and things, and and the end results are similar, but it's all different.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, every health system, every IDN, every large hospital, every small hospital, they do it all differently.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a lot of best practices out there.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly write about them all.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think you need to step back and actually have a value analysis strategic plan for what you want to do.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing well?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: What do you what can you do better?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then work in.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Gee, we'd like to do benchmarking, we'd like to do clinical supply utilization.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And VA doesn't really have any tools, there's software out there for managing like new products.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: request but that's about it there's no tools for them so you know you have to start thinking about you know what what sort of tools could be out there you know there there's a a wide array of tools for things so well to you know to keep going with this why is it challenging to make forward thinking positive changes to existing VA programs I just think they get so caught up in that process it's it's a machine that just keeps rolling and rolling and rolling and little lulls but those lulls always seem to happen around you know the Christmas holidays or 4th of July or you know through the summer when there you don't have that time to really take a step back and really really uh make improvements or and and your bosses are they're you know supply chain directors and vice president of supply chain chief purchasing they're becoming more administrators they're at the macro level and can they jump down into the micro level yes but are they jumping down into the micro level in value analysis not really only when they're called upon when a doctor calls them they're they're in that micro level you know we we have to start thinking about you know what's big picture what do we want to have happen like if you want savings beyond price to happen there's things you need to do you need to benchmark you need to track things things beyond price um for those things so you know those are the areas they have to look in and uh make it better I think there's a big drive to add more clinical elements to that and um you know I I agree there could be more clinical integration but I think you have to be more picky and choosy those clinicians are they're driving revenues those doctors are driving revenue we can't just add them to the team you know that one urologist isn't going to talk about talk uh for the six other urologists you have in there I mean so you know it's better to just you know call on the ones you need to or or and and things like that as you need to uh their time is valuable um with that so a lot of a lot of strategies I I agree with it and what what really gets me and uh this is this is the way it has always been and I'm afraid the way it's always going to be is a value analysis is a function that cries for an investment of resources.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: By resources I mean talented people with process knowledge with uh with knowledge of how to assemble and use and make compelling arguments with data and um yeah you ain't gonna get no more people and and uh the real question is number one can you do more with the same number of people and number two how do you go about doing it that's very true and and you just have to look at your systems how how could you get a benchmarking system you know the the the data's all there you just got to put it together you you work with IT or beg borrow or buy a system to do it you know you you have to you know uh talk to your bosses okay you're not gonna we're not gonna hire a$80,000 a year value analysis person to to assist us but maybe some software for for however much that that won't even be close to that cost.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you know those are the things that you got to start thinking about and you got to have that plan.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you have a plan you have a plan for this get your buy-in of your value analysis steering committee with this everyone should have a value analysis steering committee in their health system or at their very large hospital and you should start to get them to understand the value analysis plans and and it as the old Zig Ziggler used to say I'm a big fan of Zig Ziggler you know that's your talking pad to them you know you got to talk them through where's where's this value analysis?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well we like it to save money you know the CFO who sits on there I was just at a a system did a presentation in an HFMA conference and they say they saved$15 million last year.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why why aren't we doing that?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: You should be ready with your talking pat uh with how we're gonna do that type of thing.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: So so uh one editorial thing and then another question.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: If I were in charge I would pay for the$80,000 value analysis person that was formerly trained and the software and I would have that value analysis person reporting to me because I would know how important it is to for senior leadership to want to drive the changes the value analysis can bring about you know um that's the that's the editorial that's the editorial part.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree it's it's the ROI on that you know what is the ROI on these things over the short you know it's short term and long term that you have to look at and you know what does what will that person do?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you want to have a benchmarking program well guess what you coming in you're gonna be our benchmarking expert and that's you know we do that in supply chain right you're the contract administrator and guess what you're purchasing services now and that's that's your job so as you go around the country and you do your consulting work and stuff who's doing value analysis well and and what does that look like oh there is so many good health systems a lot a lot of our clients and some that that that I get to peek behind the curtain of of them for for other reasons um doing training and and other benchmarking with them.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the the smaller IDNs are are doing it well and efficiently um the larger IDNs there's a lot of even more moving parts going on at the larger IDNs it's the bigger you get you would think okay we can put throw more bodies at it more systems at it not always the the case out there and you know there is like large systems that that 10 15 hospitals that there's like one or two people managing all their value analysis out there it's it's and and they're doing it well all right but I always look like I always look to you know what if we could you know cut back on new product requests or set certain rules to new product requests does every 100% have to go through does does a$10,000 product change have to go through value analysis and all the steps all right that chew up their time when that's the budget holder should make that choice and the buyer and maybe you know talk to the value analysis offline about it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just look at those things the whole putting everything through the funnel just might not be the best way to go about things.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: But there's a lot there doing things well and I think everyone should you know we we're always continuous improvement you know um the the quality improvement is really there and value analysis is no different well Bob I tell you what we appreciate the the uh 40 plus years of input or 50 plus years of input of the Yokel family into uh healthcare and value analysis and uh you are definitely uh carrying on your father's uh um life uh life's work in an admirable way we appreciate that uh as a parting shot uh you know this is your this is your podium what would you like to say before we close um um I I just think keep keep going out there it might seem overwhelmed folks out there um first off I appreciate you having me here Fred this is this is uh always an amazing listen to um as I'm a walker I listen to your podcast as I walk uh along um I just think there's a lot of overwhelm um you know learn to take a step back find out what your leaders are looking for from your from your programs and you all right don't guess don't don't and and also stay in touch with how your organization is doing overall financially you don't want to get caught off guard with all of a sudden you know they're they're they're doing things financially and you know uh and I would always be you know tracking your savings and and making sure that you're on point with your ROI to the organization.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's most important individually as your teams look at your ROI track after so that sounds good Bob thanks so much for joining us thank you I hope you have a I hope you have a great summer and uh and uh hope to see you again soon.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: All right thank you very much Fred Well that's all for today thanks so much for joining us and don't forget to hit that subscribe button and connect with us online so you'll never miss an episode and can catch up on all the ones you might have missed.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Got a topic you're fired up about or maybe you want to be a guest on the show?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Fred would love to hear from you.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just reach out at F C R A N S at S T O N G E.com see you next time