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357. Why Does Scrolling Dating Apps After Divorce Sound Like a Better Idea Than Going to Bed? · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

0:50
SPEAKER_03: Darlings, darlings, darlings, darlings, darlings, darlings.
0:55
SPEAKER_03: Welcome.
0:58
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I like that.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: That was like a sexy Welcome.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: Oh man, we are coming off of Father's Day weekend and it was a doozy.
1:06
SPEAKER_04: Timberdoodle, it was your birthday.
1:09
SPEAKER_04: It was my birthday yesterday.
1:12
SPEAKER_04: And I thought it was very cool that my birthday coincided with Father's Day, considering that I just lost my daddy.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: But it was like this beautiful like, hey, you can't be sad on your birthday because my dad knows how much I love my birthday.
1:25
SPEAKER_04: So we went to my favorite lake yesterday and rented a pontoon.
1:30
SPEAKER_04: And the girls went tubing.
1:32
SPEAKER_04: And we just had this luscious day at my favorite lake ever with these big beautiful mountains.
1:37
SPEAKER_04: And it was lovely.
1:39
SPEAKER_04: It was great.
1:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: So does your family when tubing like to see if they can crash people off the tube?
1:47
SPEAKER_03: Or do are you like, do you play it cool?
1:50
SPEAKER_04: Um, it depends who's on the tube, right?
1:53
SPEAKER_04: Like um our older two, we didn't mean for it to happen yesterday, but our older two who are 21 and 18, they we went up against another boat's wake, and we didn't realize that it was going to be so intense.
2:06
SPEAKER_04: But literally the kids hit the wave and the 18-year-old went flying front slip off of the tube, and then my daughter went shooting out in the other direction.
2:15
SPEAKER_04: Um, and they both like got rope burned, one of them scraped their nose, the other one like bruised her hand.
2:22
SPEAKER_04: Like it was, but then they got right back on it two minutes later, like nobody cares.
2:25
SPEAKER_04: So no, we don't we we're definitely a big proponent of boat safety, especially with our kids.
2:30
SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's a very dangerous lake because it is so deep and it is so choppy, and so you really have to pay attention.
2:37
SPEAKER_04: So, no, we're not we're not asses like that with our kids.
2:40
SPEAKER_04: We like to have a good time.
2:41
SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, you're not intentionally popcorn people, yeah.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
2:46
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm glad you had such a lovely day.
2:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm sure it was bittersweet.
2:50
unknown: Yeah.
2:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was lovely.
2:52
SPEAKER_03: So this week we are talking about app scrolling.
2:56
SPEAKER_03: And by app scrolling, I don't mean Instacart.
3:03
SPEAKER_03: I mean dating apps.
3:05
SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, some of the things we're gonna talk about today is like what are we actually looking for when we're opening them?
3:13
SPEAKER_03: Because most of the time, especially when it's, you know, within the first year, I would even say two after divorce, it's not really about looking for love.
3:22
SPEAKER_03: It's like you're looking for a hit of hope or some proof that you, you know, still got it, or a tiny interruption from the ache, or you know, you're looking for something else other than love, right?
3:33
SPEAKER_03: But then you close the app and you're feeling even worse most of the time, is what I typically hear.
3:39
SPEAKER_03: Um so that said, let's talk applife.
3:51
SPEAKER_03: Hi, love.
3:52
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and build back your confidence.
4:02
SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Don Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and divorcee.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
4:21
SPEAKER_03: All right.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: I want to start with, let's the three of us just touch on this idea that for many of the women who listen and whom we work with, it is a common theme that their ex moves on early.
4:37
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes before the marriage was even over.
4:39
SPEAKER_03: Um but like early in the process, right?
4:44
SPEAKER_03: And this ends up taking up a huge chunk of space in a woman's recovery process, right?
4:50
SPEAKER_03: Because this betrayal, this anger, this resentment, this sort of perseverating on, well, he's already moved on, why shouldn't I?
4:58
SPEAKER_03: Why can't I?
4:59
SPEAKER_03: Um is a whole piece, right?
5:01
SPEAKER_03: So do you find, do you think, do you theorize that a lot of women download apps in retribution?
5:09
SPEAKER_03: What's the word I'm looking for?
5:10
SPEAKER_03: Is that the right word?
5:11
SPEAKER_03: Like, because my ex moved on.
5:13
SPEAKER_03: So like let me download this.
5:16
SPEAKER_03: It's like revenge, revenge scrolling.
5:18
SPEAKER_03: Is that is that yeah.
5:21
SPEAKER_03: If you are a revenge dating app scroller, hit us up in Heartbeat.
5:28
SPEAKER_03: Or Heartbeat, in Heartbeat.
5:29
SPEAKER_03: Hit us up in Heartbeat.
5:30
SPEAKER_03: We want to know.
5:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so yeah.
5:34
SPEAKER_04: I resonate with this because I spent 10 years on the apps.
5:38
SPEAKER_04: I have been on every freaking app known to existence.
5:41
SPEAKER_04: That's really saying something.
5:42
SPEAKER_04: And I'll tell you what, I don't know if this one is still in the what about farmers?
5:47
SPEAKER_04: Farmers.
5:47
SPEAKER_04: No, I didn't go on farmers only.
5:49
SPEAKER_04: That wasn't around when I was dating, but plenty of fish was like plenty of fish, yeah.
5:54
SPEAKER_04: It was the only one that was free.
5:56
SPEAKER_04: And let me tell you, ladies, there are a lot of fish in the sea, and they're all on plenty of fish, and they're not all good fish.
6:02
SPEAKER_04: And you know, when when people don't have to pay to date, um, sometimes it's no skin is there's a lot more shit to like sift through, right?
6:10
SPEAKER_04: Facebook dating has become very popular because that is a free thing where people can just date on Facebook.
6:16
SPEAKER_04: And one of our safety told me, huh?
6:19
SPEAKER_00: There's I was gonna say, I think there's like a safety because you it it pairs you with people you know in common.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, oh, it's not just a complete oh, sorry.
6:29
SPEAKER_04: And I didn't even, well, I didn't even know that though.
6:31
SPEAKER_04: And like one of our clients told me that this week that like it'll tell you if you have friends in common.
6:34
SPEAKER_04: So then you can go to your friends and be like, hey, is this guy weird?
6:37
SPEAKER_04: Is he okay?
6:38
SPEAKER_04: Right.
6:38
SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah.
6:39
SPEAKER_04: So, but no, I I mean I've been on Plenty of Fish, I've been on Hinge, Bumble, I've been on eHarmony, I've been on Match, um, I was on Christian Singles, like I have been on everything, everything.
6:53
SPEAKER_04: And I did it for over a decade.
6:54
SPEAKER_04: So it's like it's crazy because the men that I found on there at 24, some of them were still there at 32 or 33, right?
7:02
SPEAKER_04: Like eight years later, these men are still scoping the apps.
7:04
SPEAKER_03: And did you meet you didn't meet your current partner on an app, did you?
7:07
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
7:08
SPEAKER_03: You did?
7:09
SPEAKER_03: Which one?
7:10
SPEAKER_03: Which one?
7:10
SPEAKER_03: Bumble.
7:11
SPEAKER_03: Bumble.
7:11
SPEAKER_04: Bumble.
7:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:13
SPEAKER_04: I met him on Bumble.
7:14
SPEAKER_04: And again, I would have never met him because my my mileage settings were only 35 miles.
7:20
SPEAKER_04: And so he happened to be visiting his parents who lived in Minnesota.
7:23
SPEAKER_04: I knew the story.
7:24
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
7:25
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
7:25
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
7:25
SPEAKER_04: And then we both took it.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
7:29
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
7:30
SPEAKER_04: And I I kind of was like blowing him off for a month because I was like, I don't really want to do long distance.
7:35
SPEAKER_04: But then a month later, like we talked on the phone and we talked on the app.
7:38
SPEAKER_04: And then he planned like this whole weekend long of dates and locked it in before the weekend was over.
7:42
SPEAKER_04: So that I mean it was a cool experience.
7:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:46
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:46
SPEAKER_04: But I definitely was dating differently on the apps that time around than I was when I was in my 20s post-divorce, right?
7:53
SPEAKER_04: And I was on it for like I wanted attention.
7:55
SPEAKER_04: I wanted to know I was hot.
7:57
SPEAKER_04: I wanted to know that men wanted me.
7:58
SPEAKER_04: I wanted to know, like I was, I had to fill a lot of voids, like post-divorce in that verse.
8:04
SPEAKER_04: And that's what kept me on the apps because I wanted the attention.
8:08
SPEAKER_03: I have actually never dated on an app before.
8:10
SPEAKER_03: I don't think Joy has either.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Didn't know, but just because you did.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: I did.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: When I when I was separating.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And of course I wrote the the I rode the um, oh, we're not I'm not going to date until we're officially divorced because I'm better than him.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Like I wrote that, but I created a profile.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: I picked the guy, like I was ready.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: Papers signed, but um what app did you join?
8:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: Um I think it was eHarmony.
8:42
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
8:43
SPEAKER_04: I only ever had like I never had anyone in Myrtle Beach that were on eHarmony.
8:48
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
8:48
SPEAKER_04: EHarmony is a tough one if you're not in a big city, I feel like, because not a lot of people join it.
8:52
SPEAKER_04: It's expensive.
8:54
SPEAKER_04: Like they vet them really well.
8:55
SPEAKER_04: And that the only guy I ever met on eHarmony, he was an attorney locally that told me he had political aspirations.
9:00
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, I was like, I'm the wrong girl for you, honey, because I got a lot in my closet.
9:05
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:06
SPEAKER_04: Um so, but yeah, I I literally went on everyone.
9:10
SPEAKER_04: And I can remember how it was that dopamine hit that I needed for a very long time after.
9:17
SPEAKER_04: And then I would go out on a date with them and it would be a letdown, or they would ghost me.
9:20
SPEAKER_04: I had one guy catfish me.
9:22
SPEAKER_04: I'd only ever been catfished one time where the dude showed up and he was clearly like 15 years older than his picks, uh-huh, which wouldn't have been an issue if he would have been honest about it.
9:30
SPEAKER_04: But because he wasn't, it pissed me off.
9:31
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, no, we're not.
9:34
SPEAKER_04: Um but it was, I can remember how draining it was to just swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe.
9:40
SPEAKER_04: Like, and it became my new addiction.
9:43
SPEAKER_04: Like I wanted every day, and then I would have to have dates when my daughter wasn't with me.
9:48
SPEAKER_04: I I didn't want to be alone, and it definitely, and then I would get off of all of them, and then I would the loneliness would hit.
9:55
SPEAKER_04: I was stuck in that cycle for quite a long time.
9:58
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, and I really want to highlight here that that cycle has a range, right?
10:04
SPEAKER_03: Because there's the I want to open the app because there's something I want to feel.
10:08
SPEAKER_03: We'll unpack more what that is, right?
10:11
SPEAKER_03: But there's also I have had a number of clients over the years where they'll attract avoidant men and then avoidant men cheat, and then they leave, and then I keep reaching out, I keep pursuing this man who has cheated on me and left.
10:28
SPEAKER_03: And then when it's finally not available, I get right back on the apps without doing the work to interrupt that pattern, and then the cycle repeats, right?
10:37
SPEAKER_03: And it's like you can hear in a woman's voice when she can't help herself but open the app or reach back out to the guy.
10:47
SPEAKER_03: The pain is so intense inside of her in that moment, which is very similar to what I'm gonna it's it is very, very similar to what an alcoholic or a drug addict feels when they feel like they're going into withdrawal from a substance.
11:03
SPEAKER_03: It is a very similar phenomenon.
11:06
SPEAKER_03: This feeling that if I don't reach out to this person, if I don't get on this app, I feel like I might die.
11:13
SPEAKER_03: It's intense, right?
11:15
SPEAKER_03: So there's a range of experience for when we're on apps and we're looking for the things we're looking for, it can be very, very, very intense.
11:24
SPEAKER_03: Um and that is real, and it is a very real neurochemical experience.
11:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:30
SPEAKER_04: I would agree that that's how I would describe it, is very similar to the alcohol addiction that I experienced.
11:35
SPEAKER_04: Like same, same cycle, same hit, same withdrawal when I would get off of them, because it's like then this intensity of like being alone and not having a crutch.
12:34
SPEAKER_04: Um, and even like the similar, I can remember there were probably like two or three people that I had met on apps in my 20s.
12:43
SPEAKER_04: And then a few years later would see them on an app again and reach back out to see if situation changed.
12:48
SPEAKER_04: And if you, you know what I mean?
12:49
SPEAKER_04: Like people that kind of went in and out of my life that never did anything bad to me per se, but were people who I knew weren't a fit.
12:57
SPEAKER_04: And it's almost like your brain forgets.
12:59
SPEAKER_04: It's like, but yeah, he was nice.
13:00
SPEAKER_04: Like we had a good time.
13:02
SPEAKER_04: And then literally won't hang out again.
13:04
SPEAKER_04: Right.
13:04
SPEAKER_04: Because it depends on the part, right?
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Like one part, and one other part forgets.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: I want to ask Tiffany from an IFS perspective of what part is usually reaching for that.
13:17
SPEAKER_04: For me, it was definitely the younger part of me that felt like unwanted, right?
13:24
SPEAKER_04: Like unseen.
13:25
SPEAKER_04: That sort of like invisible part.
13:28
SPEAKER_04: Um, she would get activated and then I would go into my ego state.
13:32
SPEAKER_04: I always dated from ego state.
13:34
SPEAKER_04: Until I dated my current partner.
13:35
SPEAKER_03: So the exile part is opening the app.
13:38
SPEAKER_03: But then once you're engaging with someone, then you're in a manager part.
13:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
13:44
SPEAKER_04: She's my ego.
13:45
SPEAKER_04: We'll just call her like boss bitch.
13:46
SPEAKER_04: I don't know what else to call her, but she's my ego state.
13:49
SPEAKER_04: Like she's the one that needs the power trip.
13:51
SPEAKER_04: So maybe it's powerless.
13:52
SPEAKER_04: Maybe that's a feeling.
13:53
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
13:53
SPEAKER_04: Cause I describe my past dating life as a very much a need for power and control.
14:00
SPEAKER_04: So I'd say Joy, maybe controller, right?
14:02
SPEAKER_04: Like she stepped in, and when she's matched with my ego state, I'm very destructive and unstoppable.
14:11
SPEAKER_04: In a lot of unhealthy ways.
14:13
SPEAKER_03: I will have the things I want.
14:15
SPEAKER_03: And feels feels like you need, right?
14:17
SPEAKER_03: And there are see, this is the thing, there are needs under there, right?
14:27
SPEAKER_03: Or traumatized victim, or whatever, unsafe.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: There are very real needs in there.
14:34
SPEAKER_03: It's just, it's not gonna get met from an app within the first year post-divorce.
14:41
SPEAKER_03: It's just not what's happening.
14:43
SPEAKER_04: Because I would agree, without doing some work for sure.
14:45
SPEAKER_04: Right.
14:46
SPEAKER_04: Um I I don't think that it's anything for it's again, it's another unhealthy thing.
14:51
SPEAKER_04: And so when women are like on dating apps way too soon, I look for firefighter parts that have those numbing or addictive type behaviors because it definitely falls into that realm.
15:00
SPEAKER_04: So it's like if you've ever, you know, if you're the one that likes to drink wine, smoke weed, if you're taking Xannies to go to sleep, if you're on Adderall, like if you're reaching for other substances to numb the dating app kind of, it's gonna become your new, your new love.
15:14
SPEAKER_03: And I yeah, and I hear all of that, right?
15:16
SPEAKER_03: When when a woman says that she's on a dating app early, what I hear is attachment cry.
15:22
SPEAKER_03: So if you've ever read like the book Attached or looked at attachment theory at all, right, there's this idea that so many of our behaviors day to day are forms of attachment cry, ways that as when we were very young people would have, right?
15:36
SPEAKER_03: Because when you're a baby, how do you get your needs met?
15:38
SPEAKER_03: You cry, right?
15:39
SPEAKER_03: That's what you do.
15:39
SPEAKER_03: You cry, and then your caregiver comes, whether it's your mom, your dad, your grandparent, your babysitter, your nanny, your sibling, whatever it is, like that's how you know to communicate.
15:50
SPEAKER_03: I cry, you come, right?
15:52
SPEAKER_03: And then and then whether or not someone actually came, and then when they came, how they treated us, right?
15:57
SPEAKER_03: Like all of that is what forms our attachment style, whether they did or didn't come and then the way they presented.
16:03
SPEAKER_03: But and so when I hear women doing all those things, like you said, reaching, right?
16:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, for things that are unsafe or like just perpetuating heartbreak, loneliness, numbness, like insecurity, loneliness.
16:16
SPEAKER_03: I just hear attachment cry though, like I am crying, I need someone to come.
16:21
SPEAKER_04: I was an anxious attacher for sure, right?
16:23
SPEAKER_04: Because then when they start to text you or message you, it's like I want that immediate response.
16:29
SPEAKER_04: And if you're not responding to me within a day or two, I'm a brat and I'm moving on to somebody else.
16:33
SPEAKER_04: Because it's like if you can't respond to it.
16:39
SPEAKER_03: What did I do?
16:39
SPEAKER_03: What did I do?
16:40
SPEAKER_03: Why is it me?
16:40
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, into this very self-defining.
16:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: So this is again like any of the things we've unpacked in the last few weeks, it's complex.
16:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:53
SPEAKER_03: And then we've seen I know I've seen this in myself and with so many other women, like early dating takes a lot of discernment because you're you especially if you've done some work, right?
17:05
SPEAKER_03: If you've done some really good therapy, especially if you've done IFS, EMDR, homeopathy, like if you've done some really decent work, but there's still this process of discerning, like, is how I'm reacting in this moment new pattern identifying a red flag, or is how I'm reacting in this moment a protector part, right?
17:29
SPEAKER_03: Trying to sabotage me from getting close again.
17:32
SPEAKER_03: And that moment of dating, did I say that clear enough?
17:37
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's whether you're picking jobs or friends, or if you're considering moving somewhere, like there is a moment in divorce recovery where it is so hard to know am I reacting from a place of newness and I can totally trust what my body is telling me right now, or am I reacting from a place of I'm still perceiving things that aren't a threat as a threat and I'm just afraid to take the leap.
17:59
SPEAKER_03: And um, that moment really calls for us to go very, very slow, I think, and intentionally, and have a solid support team around us, right?
18:09
SPEAKER_03: Encouraging us to move slowly and be discerning and ask for what we need and not collapse right into losing our identity, like runaway bride type crap, right?
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Like just yeah.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: Because I think a lot of times in those moments we start asking everyone for advice.
18:25
SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
18:26
SPEAKER_03: What do you what do you think about this guy?
18:28
SPEAKER_03: What do you think about what he did?
18:28
SPEAKER_03: What do you think about and that's that is collapsing into the old way, right?
18:33
SPEAKER_03: Versus just slowly moving forward and continuing the process.
18:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:39
SPEAKER_04: I developed a dating checklist that I've shared with numerous clients so far.
18:43
SPEAKER_04: And then I also took it a step further and dated or created a friendship checklist.
18:47
SPEAKER_04: And everybody loves it because they're like, oh shit, you know what I mean?
18:50
SPEAKER_04: Because it's like, here's how I vet people, you know, and here are red or yellow flags that are like actual true flags versus what am I feeling?
19:00
SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I've had a lot of people find it super helpful because, and I wish that it's something that I would have had.
19:05
SPEAKER_04: Um, because clearly when I look through it, most of the people that I was involved with for a couple of months in a dating relationship didn't meet anywhere near what they should have met on the checklist.
19:16
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
19:17
SPEAKER_04: So I think that women just having that group of people too as a support group and not your friends that are like just having you ignore the red flags.
19:26
SPEAKER_04: And it's like you're only as healthy as your most unhealthy friend in your group.
19:30
SPEAKER_04: So like if you're reaching out to other unhealthy people, it actually hurts a little bit, but we're gonna say that are like encouraging you to go for it when you know you're not ready.
19:41
SPEAKER_04: It's like, yeah, you know.
19:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and this is the part that people miss about manifestation, right?
19:46
SPEAKER_03: Like manifestation, I don't know, has that topic like cooled a little?
19:50
SPEAKER_03: Maybe, maybe not.
19:50
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
19:51
SPEAKER_03: But like people forget, like, um, actually, Joy's husband said last night he was, we were holding a fly swatter, right?
19:57
SPEAKER_03: And a fly flew right into this water.
20:00
SPEAKER_03: You didn't even have to try.
20:01
SPEAKER_03: And he's like, well, that isn't a metaphor for life.
20:03
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, seriously, he's like, sometimes you just have to let things come to you.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, yes, that is law of attraction, that is manifestation right there.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: But you have to be a vibrational match for the thing you're hoping to attract.
20:14
SPEAKER_03: And so you can sort of identify on paper, like, sketch out like this is the kind of guy I want to have, but are you a vibrational match for that kind of guy?
20:23
SPEAKER_03: And if you haven't done that footwork, like you're gonna keep attracting the old vibe, right?
20:27
SPEAKER_03: Which is the old, old your extra.
20:29
SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm gonna say you're gonna keep settling for the old vibe.
20:32
SPEAKER_04: I want to clarify because I truly believe that in my dating, as I look through it, even younger when I was a mess, there were really nice guys that actually took a shot at me and to be like, You couldn't tolerate, you couldn't tolerate.
20:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:45
SPEAKER_04: And well, they couldn't tolerate me either.
20:47
SPEAKER_04: So, like it was kind of like one of those things where when I would get trashed by the nice guy, like I it yes, because I wasn't ready.
20:54
SPEAKER_04: And I was a walking red flag to anybody that had done any sort of work early on.
20:58
SPEAKER_04: And so for me, it was like it's it's you're gonna still attract people.
21:03
SPEAKER_04: It's who are you gonna settle for?
21:04
SPEAKER_04: So it's like if you know you attract avoidant men, right?
21:07
SPEAKER_04: Like, are you the next time you sit on a date and there's another avoidant guy, it's like you have a choice.
21:13
SPEAKER_04: And a lot of women, they fall into familiar patterns instead of being able to say, No, I deserve better, right?
21:18
SPEAKER_04: And so it's like, I hate when women say to me when they're dating, God, I keep attracting the same type of man.
21:23
SPEAKER_04: No, you keep entertaining the same type of man.
21:26
SPEAKER_04: Like men are going to be attracted to you, and until you can kind of get under there and figure out what it is.
21:31
SPEAKER_04: The difference is you have to leave next time before we're years in to this.
21:36
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
21:37
SPEAKER_04: Instead of sitting and tolerating another avoidant guy.
21:39
SPEAKER_04: But anyway, yeah.
21:40
SPEAKER_03: Or and romanticizing it, right?
21:42
SPEAKER_03: It's not even just tolerating it.
21:44
SPEAKER_03: It's like no, we we spend full-on fantasies about what this thing could be.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: I identify to that, right?
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Like I I I uh I identify with the everything will change when we get married, or you know, like he he loves me, he just doesn't show it properly, or like he really has a struggle.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Like I always made excuses, or just like didn't necessarily want to own the fact that I married someone who was a really shit boyfriend and a really shit fiance.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Like it was like a, it was like always a, oh, but it's fine, or um yeah, living for it.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: It's falling for potential.
22:26
SPEAKER_04: I did that like crazy.
22:27
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, oh, yeah, potential.
22:30
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
22:30
SPEAKER_04: Like, oh, but in five years, this guy's gonna be a dream.
22:32
SPEAKER_04: He's gonna have a company and he's gonna do this and da-da-da.
22:35
SPEAKER_04: So, like a lot of the men that I would date, even before I got married, I say men, boys, um, like in college, they were all guys with big dreams.
22:44
SPEAKER_04: They were big fucking talkers, big talkers, but nobody was delivering.
22:48
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
22:49
SPEAKER_04: But I thought they were the best thing in the world because I'm like, oh, they have such big dreams, but they weren't doing anything, you know?
22:55
SPEAKER_04: Like they were the guys that were dropping out of school, that were living off of their parents, that were, you know what I mean?
22:59
SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah.
23:00
SPEAKER_04: I definitely had a type back then for sure.
23:04
SPEAKER_03: All right, let's pivot for a moment.
23:07
SPEAKER_03: This is like this is a discussion prompt for the room.
23:11
SPEAKER_03: And I wish y'all were watching us right now because Tiffany's cat pickle is very engaged in this conversation right now.
23:18
SPEAKER_03: She is making eye contact with the camera.
23:20
SPEAKER_03: She is switching Tiffany's head with her tail.
23:23
SPEAKER_03: She's very excited today.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: This question is for you.
23:26
SPEAKER_03: What happens, pickle, when we're asking strangers to solve an internal safety problem, right?
23:32
SPEAKER_03: So, so much of what's happening after divorce, and ladies, this is a whole episode we need to record it.
23:37
SPEAKER_03: I threw it in our concepts test.
23:39
SPEAKER_03: This weekend.
23:40
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
23:41
SPEAKER_03: Post divorce, we are really having a hard time finding a sense of safety or security, right?
23:46
SPEAKER_03: Whether it's we're living alone and I was always checking behind shower curtains and shit, you know what I mean?
23:53
SPEAKER_03: Or like financial safety and security or like attachment safety and security, right?
23:57
SPEAKER_03: There are just so many themes of not feeling safe or secure.
24:00
SPEAKER_03: And so we need a whole episode on that.
24:03
SPEAKER_03: A.
24:04
SPEAKER_03: B, what's what happens?
24:06
SPEAKER_03: What are the pros and cons?
24:07
SPEAKER_03: What are the pitfalls?
24:08
SPEAKER_03: What's unfolding inside of us when we're asking strangers in dating apps, specifically dating apps, or in a dating world to solve our internal safety problems.
24:21
SPEAKER_04: So I've said this before from an IFS perspective, and I will preach, preach, preach until I die on this.
24:26
SPEAKER_04: You cannot do this work and rely on external validation.
24:30
SPEAKER_04: And that is meaning for men in new relationships, family, friends, you can't do it.
24:35
SPEAKER_04: When people tell me that one of their tools is to co-regulate, great, but that's not a thing.
24:40
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
24:41
SPEAKER_04: Like I'm happy that you can phone a friend and get assistance in that moment, but that is not sustainable, right?
24:46
SPEAKER_04: Because not every path is going to be able to be there for you.
24:49
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
24:50
SPEAKER_04: So anytime you are reaching for something outside of you to fix the thing inside of you, it is going to stir up those exiles who feel judged, rejected, disappointed, unwanted.
25:01
SPEAKER_04: Because every time that they're not giving you what you need in those moments, those younger parts of you are standing up going, see, I told you, nobody can fix me.
25:09
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
25:10
SPEAKER_04: Why can't they fix me?
25:11
SPEAKER_04: There's something wrong with me.
25:12
SPEAKER_04: I'm not good enough.
25:13
SPEAKER_04: I'm not.
25:14
SPEAKER_04: So it's like those dating apps, all they're doing is every time he doesn't respond to a message, anytime he ghosts you, anytime, you know, XYZ fill in the blank, all of those younger parts are on fire.
25:26
SPEAKER_03: And so I relate to that because let's say I'm all ginned up about something and I want my husband to be available to co-regulate.
25:36
SPEAKER_03: And then you've been talking about this a lot lately, Tiffany.
25:39
SPEAKER_03: I don't want you to fix me.
25:40
SPEAKER_03: I don't want you to offer anything.
25:41
SPEAKER_03: I just want you to hold me, right?
25:43
SPEAKER_03: And my husband will often pop in with a solution, and I'm like, ah.
25:50
SPEAKER_03: So in an attempt to co-regulate, right?
25:53
SPEAKER_03: Like very often it can go sideways.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: I do think that there's a very important acknowledgement that co-regulation is an essential part of recovery because we do have to learn how to feel vulnerable and connected with people.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: And it is a huge part of how we learn a sense of safety.
26:13
SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't believe that we can get to an internal sense of safety without safe people in our lives.
26:19
SPEAKER_03: So I do believe that that's a very real issue.
26:21
SPEAKER_03: But what happens is we learn how to feel safe with other people on the way to learning how to feel safe inside of us.
26:29
SPEAKER_03: And feeling safe inside of myself is a vibration.
26:32
SPEAKER_03: Feeling a sense of security, peace, ease, safety, however you want to say that, it is a vibration where I can sit here and I can.
26:39
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever seen those stickers or memes or um uh magnets?
26:44
SPEAKER_03: I have one that says peace isn't the absence of turbulence.
26:48
SPEAKER_03: It's the ability to sit inside a storm and know that I am well or it is well, right?
26:53
SPEAKER_03: It is the capacity to sense of peace.
26:56
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
26:56
SPEAKER_03: Even when there is a storm raging around me.
26:59
SPEAKER_03: That is an internal sense of safety and security.
27:02
SPEAKER_03: And it comes from being able to literally, whether you want to call this like your root chakra, being able to release people with fibromyalgia, often their root chakras are staying bound and tense and constricted and they can't release, and there's not, it's so closed and tight, there's not a sense of safety and security.
27:22
SPEAKER_03: Um or uh whether it's like flow in your nervous system, right?
27:28
SPEAKER_03: A regulated nervous system doesn't have to feel calm all the time.
27:31
SPEAKER_03: That's not what internal safety or security is.
27:33
SPEAKER_03: I'm not talking necessarily about a standard state of calmness.
27:37
SPEAKER_03: It's this capacity to know that I can feel stressed when I need to feel stressed, and I can return to a sense of calm when the stressor has passed, right?
27:47
SPEAKER_03: It's this reliable sense of even if the worst thing happens, I can be okay.
27:54
SPEAKER_03: And that comes through building a sense of confidence within myself, with other people, with my higher power.
28:00
SPEAKER_03: It's it's a layered way that we get to a sense of safety.
28:05
SPEAKER_03: But when we're doing it with strangers, when we're literally reaching for safety with strangers, that is not sustainable.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:13
SPEAKER_03: We're more likely to get negative reinforcement than positive.
28:18
SPEAKER_04: Or for lower vibe people, I tell people that all the time.
28:20
SPEAKER_04: Like, if you're continuing to reach out to a friend who makes you feel rejected, it's all about her.
28:27
SPEAKER_04: It's all, you know, it's that same thing.
28:29
SPEAKER_04: It's reinforcing that part of you that doesn't feel good enough.
28:32
SPEAKER_04: So it's like being able to have a really good village of people that you can feel safe with, yeah.
28:37
SPEAKER_04: But then also, again, it's like so many women are like, if I can just get through this, if I can just get through this.
28:43
SPEAKER_04: And that's such a catch-22, right?
28:45
SPEAKER_04: Because it's like you keep moving the bar, but it's like life is never going to be in this space where things are gonna be perfect.
28:52
SPEAKER_04: Sure, it might be calmer, but it's like if you're waiting for everything to just be calm so that you can be calm, that's not a thing.
28:59
SPEAKER_04: It's just not a thing.
29:00
SPEAKER_04: Like you have to learn to be calm in the midst of it.
29:03
SPEAKER_04: Um because shit happens, you know, life be life in.
29:08
SPEAKER_04: And it's just you gotta figure it out.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:12
SPEAKER_03: So we've talked from time to time, like through all different types of episodes, about the capacity to choose rather than waiting to be chosen.
29:23
SPEAKER_03: And I feel like the dating apps kicks that whole thing up, like scrolling the dating apps, right?
29:28
SPEAKER_03: It's like it gives you the illusion that you're choosing.
29:31
SPEAKER_03: But then it has to be reciprocated, right?
29:34
SPEAKER_03: And then it activates that whole thing about but am I chosen, but am I chosen, but am I chosen.
29:38
SPEAKER_03: But here's the thing when I was early post-divorce, I if if I had asked myself, okay, I tend to perseverate on do they want me, do they want me, do they want me, do they want me.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: But if I, if someone had said, but do you want them, I would have said yes every time.
29:56
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
29:58
SPEAKER_03: Because I still didn't have the capacity to discern.
30:02
SPEAKER_03: Like I just needed to be needed.
30:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, period.
30:05
SPEAKER_03: There was no, there was nothing, no space, no, what am I trying to say?
30:10
SPEAKER_03: There was no part of me that could even consider do I want them.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: It was like, yes.
30:16
SPEAKER_04: Well, it's the self-sacrificing or self-abandonment part, right?
30:18
SPEAKER_04: That every single time it's like, it doesn't matter what my needs are.
30:21
SPEAKER_04: If they need me, I'm all in.
30:23
SPEAKER_04: All in.
30:25
SPEAKER_04: Doesn't matter what the situation is, doesn't matter how messy it gets, like it's cool.
30:28
SPEAKER_04: Like if he needs me, I'm all about it.
30:30
SPEAKER_04: I will just suppress whatever my pain is.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
30:35
SPEAKER_04: So it's like we see that with women who are fawners, right?
30:38
SPEAKER_04: We see that with women who are chameleons that have those parts that just kind of morph into the men that they're with.
30:44
SPEAKER_04: And I've said this before, but it's like if you're morphing into the men that you're with, that's a problem.
30:49
SPEAKER_04: Like I didn't actually start.
30:52
SPEAKER_04: This is the first relationship I've ever been in that I've had really good female friendships, that I actually go out with my girlfriends and do stuff, that I have hobbies outside of the relationship.
31:01
SPEAKER_04: Like it's wild.
31:02
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, oh, so I can be an individual in the relationship as well and kind of have my own thing and also be in a partnership.
31:09
SPEAKER_04: And I don't have to collapse into everything that he wants.
31:11
SPEAKER_04: And if I have preferences, if I have wants and needs, they can actually be honored and respected instead of like made to feel like I'm an inconvenience or I'm too much.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
31:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:26
SPEAKER_03: And I was super, super guilty of that for sure.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: Like, and um, I agreed to things that then when it came time to execute, right, were really hard for me, like choosing a religion or, you know, where to live or how to raise it, like name it, right?
31:42
SPEAKER_03: And then I was in internal conflict or then in relationship conflict, right?
31:47
SPEAKER_03: Because yeah, I collapsed and then I was like, I'll figure it out later.
31:53
SPEAKER_04: And other women out there too that have done this, where I I remember when I would get in conversations with people in dating apps and they would kind of give me like a rough description of their life.
32:04
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
32:05
SPEAKER_04: Like I'm X years old and I'm divorced and I have a five-year-old daughter, and um I like doing XYZ.
32:13
SPEAKER_04: I immediately would fantasize about how I could fit into that world, right?
32:17
SPEAKER_04: And like what my life would look like in that world.
32:19
SPEAKER_04: There was never a point of like, do I want to deal with this person's ex?
32:24
SPEAKER_04: What is that dynamic?
32:25
SPEAKER_04: What is his child like?
32:26
SPEAKER_04: Am I gonna be expected to do things?
32:28
SPEAKER_04: Like that's like, yes, sign me up.
32:29
SPEAKER_04: I want all of that.
32:30
SPEAKER_04: Yes, right.
32:31
SPEAKER_04: And it's like I until I got like later in dating life that I actually started going out with people and being like, no, that's not gonna work for me, like hard line in the sand on some stuff because I'm not interested in moving to Costa Rica.
32:43
SPEAKER_04: I'm not interested in raising your three children and being a stay-at-home mom to your kids.
32:47
SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm not interested in, you know, whatever the case is.
32:50
SPEAKER_04: But it took me a while to like, for lack of a better term, like to get some balls around like what I wanted, you know, and what I would stand for.
32:58
SPEAKER_04: Because I was literally just wanting to be wanted so bad that it's like, yeah, sure, that sounds great.
33:03
SPEAKER_04: It's on me up.
33:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:05
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
33:06
SPEAKER_03: So, what is being grounded and dating actually look like?
33:09
SPEAKER_03: Because I think we're making it sound hard.
33:15
SPEAKER_04: And maybe that's because it is.
33:18
SPEAKER_04: It is, but it's not.
33:19
SPEAKER_04: It's so foreign to it is foreign to discover yourself and to as women.
33:28
SPEAKER_04: I was talking to someone this morning and they said that this is the first time in 60 some years that they have taken a trip with other women friends.
33:36
SPEAKER_04: Why did they do that?
33:37
SPEAKER_04: Why did they wait so long?
33:39
SPEAKER_04: I feel like there are so many parts of us that as women when we're married, we feel like we can't put ourselves first.
33:45
SPEAKER_04: We can't um have hobbies.
33:47
SPEAKER_04: It has to be all about the kids and serving him and doing things for him.
33:50
SPEAKER_04: And so that until we break ourselves of that, we carry that into the next relationship.
33:56
SPEAKER_04: Those caregiver parts of us, those fixer parts, those peacekeeping parts, the self-sacrificing, unless we address them, we carry that very much into it.
34:04
SPEAKER_04: And so until you take time, literal time to heal yourself and discover, you know, what are your likes and dislikes?
34:12
SPEAKER_04: What are your hobbies?
34:13
SPEAKER_04: Let's start assessing friendships.
34:14
SPEAKER_04: Like who is my village?
34:15
SPEAKER_04: Who are my people?
34:17
SPEAKER_04: If you're literally any of that, yeah, you gotta be really solving for the attachment cry piece.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
34:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
34:25
SPEAKER_04: It's like solving the attachment of instead of anxious, being able to move into a place where you feel secure.
34:30
SPEAKER_04: And that again, you can manage yourself in your own storm.
34:35
SPEAKER_04: So that's that's kind of the kicker.
34:37
SPEAKER_03: That whole journey took me a lot of years.
34:41
SPEAKER_03: And listen, we created our program so that it wouldn't take as many years, right?
34:45
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
34:48
SPEAKER_03: But um, and a lot of women loving me well along the way.
34:53
SPEAKER_03: A lot of women loving on me, loving on me, loving on me, loving on me.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: Um just so many instances of me signing up to receive love from safe people as I learned how to feel safe inside of me.
35:11
SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden was like, oh, I like this, I don't like that, I like this, I don't like that, right?
35:16
SPEAKER_03: But to get grounded, like really grounded in who I am and what I want and what I don't want, that's what grounded dating is, to be able to have a secure attachment style.
35:29
SPEAKER_03: And I'm not saying that everybody has to have a secure attachment style to start dating, but I do think that they should be they should have a felt sense of what secure attachment feels like, and maybe they can't maintain it all the time, but they should have already established what a felt sense of secure attachment feels like in the body, right?
35:51
SPEAKER_03: Because if you don't know that feeling, you won't know how to reach for it in dating.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: And dating is one of the most intense things that kicks up attachment shit.
36:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: So how can how do we care for the lonely part of us without the app?
36:12
SPEAKER_00: Like how do we Yeah, without without needing like could the validation doesn't last very long?
36:18
SPEAKER_03: Like, how do we well I'm super biased, but I really like our free immersive journaling program called the Loneliness Roadmap.
36:29
SPEAKER_03: That's what I created it for, right?
36:31
SPEAKER_03: Like I created the thing that I wish I had had all those years ago.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: Uh so like that's one way, right?
36:38
SPEAKER_03: Like that's one way.
36:40
SPEAKER_03: Um and what the loneliness roadmap does is it allows it's a step-by-step process, right?
36:45
SPEAKER_03: That allows you to sit and like sort out what is actually driving that loneliness.
36:51
SPEAKER_03: It walks you through basically like a self-EMDR to process those underlying feelings.
36:55
SPEAKER_03: It walks you through how you'd prefer to feel about yourself.
36:57
SPEAKER_03: It helps you manage your emotions through all of that.
36:59
SPEAKER_03: Like it walks you through it all step by step with me on camera sitting with you.
37:04
SPEAKER_03: So I'm really partial to that because I really think to feel that felt sense of security, there are multiple boxes that have to get checked inside of our systems, right?
37:14
SPEAKER_03: Inside of our body mind in order to rehab that over time.
37:19
SPEAKER_03: But what would y'all say, right, is um, how do we help deal with loneliness?
37:25
SPEAKER_03: The other way I would say is finding really safe women to love on you.
37:28
SPEAKER_04: I think it starts organic connection for me.
37:32
SPEAKER_04: I mean, and I think that when I started to pivot and stopped waiting for my life to begin until I had a partner again, that's when I started kind of toying.
37:42
SPEAKER_04: And again, it started very simple with me just buying very intentional things for my space that made me smile.
37:47
SPEAKER_04: And then it graduated to, hey, I'm gonna take a road trip by myself today.
37:51
SPEAKER_04: And then it graduated to I did some volunteer work at an animal shelter.
37:56
SPEAKER_04: I decided to take into exchange students for 10 months.
37:59
SPEAKER_04: Like that's the more extreme side of it, right?
38:00
SPEAKER_04: But it's like I just sat down and thought about what are the things that I want to do in my life that I don't want to wait for somebody to have to do it with.
38:08
SPEAKER_04: And I just started doing them.
38:10
SPEAKER_04: And I started kind of, yeah, like I built this organic connection with other people and myself.
38:18
SPEAKER_03: And because I had the joy of because I had the joy of riding by your old house with you recently.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
38:30
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, we drove through, it was like this little intimate neighborhood.
38:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there's like 20 houses in my old neighborhood in Myrtle.
38:38
SPEAKER_03: And everybody was very close.
38:39
SPEAKER_03: Like, and then I got to meet one of your neighbors.
38:42
SPEAKER_03: And when we pulled up, he was like, oh shit, like he immediately knew who you were, right?
38:47
SPEAKER_03: Like immediately had clearly like a felt sense of joy to see you.
38:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:51
SPEAKER_03: And so, in that sort of arc, right, of you building this life for yourself, you created a community right there where if you needed something, you could ask multiple people in that little area, right?
39:07
SPEAKER_03: You had people who had eyes on your kid, you had people who could help you hang a picture, deal with something in the yard, you had like that, right?
39:16
SPEAKER_03: Like you created a safe place where you had community and a certain type of security in that community that then allows you to feel a sense of safety so that you can access deeper work, right?
39:30
SPEAKER_03: Super interesting when you think about what does it take.
39:33
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
39:34
SPEAKER_04: Right.
39:34
SPEAKER_04: Well, and I would also say that there was definitely a time span there where I was trying to rely on old habits when I went into that neighborhood and tried to create the community, still trying to reach on the dating app, still feeling a little bit unsettled.
39:49
SPEAKER_04: And I'm gonna say that that only lasted after I bought that house.
39:54
SPEAKER_04: It was definitely less than a year.
39:56
SPEAKER_04: It might have been seven or eight months when I was trying to do both, establish a community and also reach for inorganic shit in my life, that I decided to make the decision to be celibate for six years.
40:08
SPEAKER_04: And so it was in that space where I could be in that time frame where I wasn't actively pursuing anybody.
40:14
SPEAKER_04: And I really created this beautiful community.
40:17
SPEAKER_04: Um, and I created these hobbies and this volunteer work that I loved in my life and these beautiful trips with my daughter and myself.
40:25
SPEAKER_04: So, like I, yeah, like I started to create that community to where that those apps started to feel less and less effective because I realized how much of there's a difference between a dopamine hit and receiving that like genuine love connection.
40:42
SPEAKER_04: Right.
40:43
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
40:44
SPEAKER_04: So like the more I did of that, the less I needed.
40:47
SPEAKER_04: And the the more yucky that felt, you know, for me to be on the apps and trying to seek it out when I could just go over to the neighbor's house and hang out on their porch and just like talk about life and like have these deep, delicious like conversations.
41:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
41:03
SPEAKER_04: Neato.
41:05
SPEAKER_03: Neato.
41:07
SPEAKER_03: So for the ladies out there who still have the apps on their home screen and on the harder nights, right?
41:15
SPEAKER_03: You you scroll almost as though it's Instacart.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it feels like that.
41:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:27
SPEAKER_03: Right.
41:28
SPEAKER_03: What if you deleted them for a while?
41:31
SPEAKER_03: What if you created a plan for yourself to do a different self-caring choice in those moments, right?
41:41
SPEAKER_03: When you're reaching for the hit to quiet the loneliness, to qu you know, when you're when you're in attachment cry, right?
41:51
SPEAKER_03: I need you, come, right?
41:53
SPEAKER_03: How could you do a different attachment cry pattern that actually creates a sense of safety in your health?
42:04
SPEAKER_03: And so that answer might be different for everyone, but I think what you're hearing us say is it's reaching for safe people, it's reaching for self-awareness, dot connecting, it's reaching for connection in places where people have the capacity to love you and not just take something from you or like their own dopamine hits.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Um so really being mindful.
42:31
SPEAKER_03: We would love to be part of your attachment cry patterns or habits, right?
42:36
SPEAKER_03: Like come join us in cocoon, and then if you're feeling cry-y, uh, you know, you can come be with us and we can be part of your attachment cry loop.
42:45
SPEAKER_03: We would love that.
42:47
SPEAKER_03: So if you're not in Cocoon, link in show notes.
42:51
SPEAKER_03: Jump in.
42:51
SPEAKER_03: It is completely free.
42:53
SPEAKER_03: And you can connect with other women, you can connect with us, you can participate in the monthly magic drop.
42:59
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you could attend a workshop.
43:01
SPEAKER_03: This is where you start to find where you could start to find right safe moments and people to connect with who know how you're feeling, understand, and will not lead you astray.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: We would love to see you there.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: We love you so much.
43:16
SPEAKER_03: Peace.