Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / Episode 22: After Show

Transcript

Episode 22: After Show · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Hey Divas and dudes.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the after show for the staircase.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: That was quite a lengthy episode.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: We got a lot to get into.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Let's start with your feedback.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we covered a lot in the episode, and there's still so much.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: So much more.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the most shocking thing to me is that Sophie.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I still I just can't get her out of my head.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be that guy.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be a bitch, but how can you be so dumb?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: You just want to shake her.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just shake her.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously she's done things like this before, right?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is her line of work.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, she does documentaries, but they weren't necessarily like true crime documentaries before.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: She's an editor.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to have a level of like objectivity to to be in that line of work.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it seems like that just completely flew out the window, which I guess could also point to the fact that he is so incredibly charming and charismatic.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't find him charming or charismatic.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't either, but apparently a lot of people do.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Apparently, two women did, because Patty and Kathleen did.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I want you to explain to me, because I'm a little fuzzy.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: What was the exact relationship of the first woman that felt supposedly fell down the stairs?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was a friend.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Liz was a friend with the family.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Liz worked with Patty, and Patty at the time was married to Michael.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: They said that he was also friends with her husband, but I'm not sure if they became friends as a result of Patty and Liz being friends.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: I I think basically there were there were four Americans living in Germany.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: So that bonded you to start with, right?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that Patty worked with Liz and they became tight, especially.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can say as as a Brit living in America, you meet another Brit, you automatically kind of bond.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: You have things in common that other people around you don't have.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: So um they were friends, which is why I thought it was unusual.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess if you're living in a different country, maybe it's not so unusual.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that they had made a pact with them, hey, if anything happens to us, can you make sure our girls are taken care of?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't necessarily say, could you take them in and raise them.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: They just said, can you look out for our girls and make sure they're taken care of?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: I guess maybe they did that because they worried about something happening while they were overseas.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And what a foreshadowing.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously when you have children, you have to have those kinds of conversations because you just never know what's gonna happen and you want your children to be taken care of.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: But like 99% of the time It's not gonna happen.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't think I ever had those conversations with people outside the family.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: But and even though I do live in another country, I mean something happened to me while my boys were young, I'm pretty sure that they would have gone to live with my parents in England.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: You and thankfully you have stable family that would take them in a heartbeat, I have no doubt.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe Liz.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Liz.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe she didn't.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe she said it to them after her because her husband passed first.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it was after her husband.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because once you're down to one parent, then you might be like, oh shit, if anything happens to me, what's gonna happen to the girls, especially living abroad?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess I guess yeah, it kind of ties in.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it makes sense.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm surprised because Patty was such a whack job and Michael's such an arrogant, selfish person that they were even like, sure, although obviously they didn't mean it.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they definitely didn't mean it, and then it happened, and they're like, fuck.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if he was responsible for her death, then yeah, maybe it happened.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he did.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: But what would have been his motive for that one, do you think?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you think they were having an affair or something?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody who was interviewed about that said no, right?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: That they didn't think that they were.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: There was no way they were having an affair.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: But when you take somebody that apparently hits his own children, apparently is capable of murdering a wife, he could just be a like violent, volatile person.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: And if they were in some kind of argument, I'm not saying he necessarily wanted to kill her, but just say you made a pass at her upstairs, she turns him down, says, I'm gonna tell Patty, he gets rough with her and she falls down the stairs.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not saying that happened.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just saying that he's he's a the type of person that treats situations with violence.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's one of a thousand things that could have happened, honestly.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, he just seemed like a violent narcissist.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, could have been something to do with money, it could have been a household dispute, it could have been just a dispute among friends, and he I think it's highly likely he at least made a pass at her, just because if you look at his sexual activity.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he seems very promiscuous and not all that picky.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: Not all that picky and just like everyone's game in his world.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's game and everyone is there just to support his own narrative, because that's a narcissist, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't see them as people, he sees them as objects for for whatever endeavor he wants, whether that's sexual gratification, financial, whatever.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: And didn't you feel the way that we said that Patty was still so dedicated to him, despite the fact they were divorced?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, they did have children together, but it seemed like she never moved on.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like I wonder if even if she knew anything about what happened to Liz.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying she'd be in on it, but even if she had her suspicions, she seemed way too dedicated to Michael to ever.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I don't know, I don't know that she's all that trustworthy either.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I thought she was batshit crazy.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: She was definitely batshit crazy, and she I feel like to be with somebody like Michael Peterson, you have to be, and this is no shade to anybody, but you have to either Who's been with him, which is most of North Carolina.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you have to be just willing to tolerate just a just an enormous amount of bullshit, which I and I think I don't know this, but I think that maybe Kathleen had about had enough fish shit.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think is she was a smart woman.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and she was I think she was finally figuring him out and all about I don't want to do this.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to raise your kids, I don't want to support you and your c writing career that woo-hoo ten thousand and I don't want to deal with your obsession with men.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do we know why the previous wife and he divorced?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Because he let Kathleen.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he did he he cheated on her with uh Kathleen?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, super reliable guy.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, the best.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: Super honest and uh trustworthy.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the sons, and I I didn't do any like actual factual research into this his sons.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I did see some of the dramatization, and I did see some of the Netflix documentary recently, but that whole dynamic was weird too with the sons, especially, and this brings up another good point, the blowpoke.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: There was one son, I think it was the older one, maybe.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: One of them was like really rebellious, and the other one was like had a family and was like really calm and trustworthy.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And one of them was like a hundred percent behind him.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'll back him up no matter what, I'll do whatever.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And the other one was just seemed like he had been a bit unruly before it all even happened.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so he didn't take life as seriously.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: And he seemed a little bit more not as committed to the legal defense as the other, I thought.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: He definitely seemed unstable, and it made me wonder.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And there was friction, right?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Between him and Kathleen.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and there was friction between him and his brother, too.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that made me wonder, and this is purely speculation.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Was he involved?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Did he know something?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Did he help cover up something, especially with that Gelopo?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think if anybody covered up something, it was the older one.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think that um the one that was the the unstable one, I think he just had too much of his own shit going on to get fully behind Dad's case.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: And because Michael wanted it to be about him, and he wanted everything and everyone to be about him and his case and what was going on.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that he still clashed with the other son because the other son was like deal doing his own shit.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So where was the other son?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm did the cops like completely rule him out as being involved?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, did they even look at the other son?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't even look at anybody else.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that just makes me wonder because his relationship with Kathleen was strained.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: With Kathleen and Michael.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really volatile.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you have problems in their marriage and then you have the son throwing his shit in, like that's a volatile household anyway.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Which is another reason why Kathleen seemed to be just about keeping it all together.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: But um what a way to go though, man.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was hard for it was hard to watch in the dramatization.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, her on the steps, like bleeding out and like seizing basically.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it just made me feel for her because she was alive for a while.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it looked like she was even choking on her own blood, maybe, which was and you could tell she was freaking out because she could seal the blood and not get up or do anything.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes me wonder like, did Michael hit her, beat her, assault her, whatever?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Did he push her down the steps?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Either or or e possibly both, and then just wait for her to to die as she struggled to breathe.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if if that is what happened and he just waited, like you have to be truly an evil monster.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to be.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: But just say he attacked her in temper in the heat of the moment, he didn't mean to kill her, but realized he'd gone too far, then he probably would wait because if he beats her more, he knows there's gonna be more evidence against him.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: If he calls the police, she might survive and report him.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: And as egotistical as he was, ha had he just happened to have gone too far and realized that sh she was either gonna turn him in or die anyway.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let her die of her own accord, because then you could say, Oh, she fell down the stairs.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like he's got that in him.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he definitely does.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I just it's it's unfathomable to me for somebody to be that heartless.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: But and they were married, what, is something like twelve or fifteen years, and then you you wanna stand there and watch her choke it on her own blood and die.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And she did, and we see this so often, like women that do everything for their husbands.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she supported his political career and did all this fundraising for it and put up with so much shit.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: She actually missed her kids like college parent weekend, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: To to support his political career.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that was the thanks that she got.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: He was probably seeing somebody else, if not, if not just the man, maybe another woman.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: That is pure speculation.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: That is not proven whatsoever.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: So just say yeah, I mean, he met her and left Patty.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: If he had met somebody else and was ready to move on, he didn't have any money.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was all hers, right?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So he wasn't cracking out bestsellers every year by any means.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: But men like him um tend to, after, you know, a decade or a couple decades of marriage, like, oh, time to trade her in for a new model.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, young one, but I want her money still.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't just divorce her because she does everything for me, and I'm a man baby.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, man baby.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Ugh And what about him lying about that Vietnam injury and getting a purple heart?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: Again, that's just me, me, me, attention, attention.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody focus on me, eyes on me.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: I got I got in a car wreck in Japan and fucked up my leg, but no one's gonna give me sympathy for that.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was probably my fault.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: So let's just say it happened in the war instead, because then I'll get a lot more sympathy.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just a scumbag.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think anybody that can lie about something like that is just the worst type of person.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It is so disrespectful.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: Disrespectful, yeah, to the people that really did go through that.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's disgusting.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: So let's talk about the owl.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: The owl theory.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: That was also next on my list.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so Had there ever been any records of anybody ever dying by owl?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Not to my knowledge.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I did I did look it up.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: You did?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: No deaths, but assaults by owls have occurred.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I talked to my friend who is a biologist, and he actually has done field work and has specifically interacted with many barred owls.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I told him this whole story and asked for his feedback.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Is this likely?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is this probable?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is this possible?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is this not likely?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your take on it as a professional?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, I do know that barred owls are aggressive, especially if it is mating season and they have attacked people.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he said that he actually had a couple of close encounters with one out in the field.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: He was, and I don't know exactly what he was doing, but he was in the middle of the woods and he had to play a tape of like a mating sound of a barred owl.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds like he's asking for trouble.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um he said, like an idiot, I stood right beside the tape instead of going away from it.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And he said that Bard Owl literally did it swoop down at his head and he like it just missed him, he ducked out of the way.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So he learned a lesson that day.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: But he said that yes, they are aggressive, but as far as actually killing somebody, he said that that is not at all.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: So birds of prey, I mean, they can be very big, very weighty.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: They can attack small animals that they've been known to whisk dogs and cats off and small goats and stuff.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, we know that they have some power behind them and they have very sharp talons.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: I I I see it causing a lot of pain and damage to a human.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he said that what usually happens is that if it's at night, and this did happen at night, if they're out hunting for food, they could possibly mistake a person's head as like a squirrel or something running around as prey.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: But that when they would go down and straight, they realize, oh, this is a human, this is not a tasty squirrel, this is not what I wanted.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so then they'll go away.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's no real reason to attack a human unless they're near like their babies or their nest.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now she was on her property near her house.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think that it's likely that she was even near like their mating area or anything.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: I saw the same as you that no one's reportedly ever died from an owl attack.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: I looked up um bird attacks, fatal bird attacks that have been fatal to humans in general.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: So the only one that's notorious is a Cassaweri.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Never heard of it.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're native to Australia and New Guinea.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: They stand up to six feet tall and they possess four-inch dagger-like claws, and they are only a couple of documented human fatalities caused by them.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that is the only thing that comes up other than vehicular accidents.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, a bird causing, like, say we'd have hit cow bird today.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I just need to say, like, before you even said where these birds were located, I knew it was gonna be Australia.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because everything terrifying is lives in Australia.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: So my my granddad actually lived there for a while on military service, and I'm absolutely petrified of spiders.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not scared of anything else.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: You can put me in a pit of snakes, but do not put a spider anywhere near me, no matter how big or small.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: And he told me about a spider that lives.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, this if you're in Australia listening to this and you're like, that's a bunch of crock shit.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: This is just what my grandfather told me.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: He said there is a spider that lives under the toilet seat.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Ah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to check under the toilet seat every time you go because it will bite your butt and it is venomous enough to kill you.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: New fear unlocked.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, the toilet seat spider.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: The toilet seat spider.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if that's true.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: He did also tell me, and I know that this one is true because I've seen it on documentaries, that you have to check your slippers every morning.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: When you when you take your feet out of the bed and they would just shove them in the slippers, you have to check your slippers for scorpions.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you I could I would not make it in Australia, y'all.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: I would not.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can't.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: She would, but she would be in like uh an insect-proof suit from top to bottom.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that there's no kind that's no kind of way to live.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, thank you.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: I really want to go to Australia.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of my top places.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: During this conversation, you want to go to Australia, okay.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I just I just won't go to the bathroom the whole time.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: Or put on shoes.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, you just you check the toilet seat and you check your slippers, and then you're good.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly kind of do those things a lot of the time anyway, because I'm just a paranoid person.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Unless you get attacked by a castleware.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: I thought it was gonna say emus or ostriches, because I know they're aggressive.
• 18:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: They're big.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I still don't see any records of them killing people or just attacking.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: No, fatally trampled.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: So while uh as far as ostriches and emus, while rare, there have been occasional reports of humans, typically farmers and handlers being fatally trampled by these large birds.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: Trampled to death by an emu.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: That yeah, that's uh today.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So in episode uh thirte I think it's episode thirteen of the documentary on Netflix, Michael says, you know, it's like when you get away with something, you keep getting away with it, and then it becomes, oh, it's alright.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that was in reference to sexual sexual relationships with men.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: But in my opinion, that was his subconscious saying, I've pushed two women down the stairs and gotten away with it.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well it seems there's a lot of documentaries where a man is accused of killing his wife, and then suddenly they notice that he had a previous wife that also died.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: And half the time it seems to be in the same way.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think there's one guy that had two wives fall off cliffs, and then sometimes in a different way, like the one that had um the crushed under the car.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember that?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: I can't remember.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think he pushed one wife off a cliff.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that when they went back, his first wife had died by being crushed by a car where they broke down on the side of the road and uh while changing a tire or whatever, like somehow the car fell on her.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know this one.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have to figure that out.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's horrible.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: That reminds me of um Helen and Olga, and that has to be just a horrible way to go, getting getting crushed underneath a car and ran over.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Getting crushed under anything.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: We drove through a buffalo stampede when I was in Africa.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it was it was scary.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: It was probably the scariest thing in Africa, actually.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we went right up close to lions and stuff, and that wasn't scary at all.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um the most dangerous thing in Africa is hippos, but they don't let you anywhere near them in Safari.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're they kill for joy.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's fucked up.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: They're the only other animal other than us that kills for joy.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: So cute and sweet to me.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas other animals kill because they're either threatened or they're hungry.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: But there was a stampede, and we're in this um there's like a jeep that had probably ten people in it, so it was a safari jeep.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: And as the buffalo stampede, and I'll have to pull out the pictures to show you.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, they drive through the middle of the stampede.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: So what you see is when you look left, you see a whole bunch of buffalo that have just come to a standstill.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: When you look right, you see nothing but clouds of dust where the buffalo have run past you, and in front of you, there's nothing but running buffalo.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: And they say, like, we do this all the time just for the tourists, because they'll always part.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: But it's scary as hell to be in there.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing that was scary was elephants.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Believe it or not, they would drive all the way up to the air elephants and rev the engines, and an elephant.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Them will put its trunk all the way up in the air and make this hideous noise right before it's about to stampede you, and they would make them do that just so you could like see it happen, and then they would drive the fuck away.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like that.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's animal torture, and I don't like that.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: The buffalo thing is terrifying.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I would you would never, never catch me doing something.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Never ever.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it reminds me of the Lion King.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's devastating.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's so sad.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: So sad.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you the um two spider stories from Africa one time, but I won't get into them now.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe I won't.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't I don't want it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to hear them.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'll pull out those pictures before I show them to you.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what about his political correct?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think that was nonsense.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think he never had a chance.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was when I think it was a way to grift, to be honest, and a way to inflate his ego.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, what?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, inflate his ego was what I was gonna say.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was a way to do the look at me, look at me, look at me, everybody pay attention to me.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: Cause I don't he didn't have a background as a politician.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: He was an author.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's just that case of like anybody can run.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: And he did.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think he wanted a pedestal to stand on and say, like you said, look at me.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it was a way to grift and get money from people and fundraise, which I think is something a reason that a lot of politicians do it.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: They don't actually want to do the job, they just want money.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: See, I didn't credit him as that smart.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: I just I just thought it was all attention and ego.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think it I think it is, and I think he he was in dire straits financially.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely think it was financially motivated.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: But um I think that a lot of politicians are kind of narcissists that way.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think you kind of have to be.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why the United States of America is in dire straits right now, because people like that get in power.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: No, I think I think I think to be a politician, you kind of have to have that kind of personality.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: So apparently we vote for them, which is like stupid us, right?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: We have to vote for somebody, you can't vote for somebody that's not running.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it that's the thing is narcissists and sociopaths can be so very charming and likable.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: But we have to stop looking at like, oh, he's charming, he's likable, he makes me feel good, and we need to look beneath that veneer.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Look at the substance.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: They all have shit to hide though.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get into the blowpoke.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: What do we actually think happened with the blowpoke?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: I do honestly think that um the original blow poke is at the bottom of the lake somewhere, like you said, but I don't think they went and got it back.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think they went and got a replacement blowpoke.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think they were so close to the end of the trial and they were so convinced that it wasn't going well, which they were correct about, that they needed to find this supposed weapon and prove it was never used.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: So to go get a replacement one that doesn't have any evidence of murder on it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's no way that the police missed it.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've I've seen them turnhouses upside down and they don't miss anything.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but my my issue with that theory is it was a gift from the sister and she said she has the same one.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, wouldn't the sister be able to say, no, this ain't it.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is not the one that I bought.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: But where they brought it up in the trial, she'd already testified and they couldn't call her back to say, did this match the same one?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: She would have to eventually be able to say, which I mean I guess at that point it wouldn't matter because d the trial is over.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: But like But how hard would it be to find an identical one?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, could be very hard depending on what it is, I guess.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I just think with the internet you can find anything now.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, but this was like what, twenty years ago?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Nah, true.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think either is plausible, either could certainly have happened, but I I don't believe their story.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe that it had just been s fucking sitting there.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a break.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Not even hidden, not even, oh, it rolled under the sofa or anything.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: Just no, it was sitting there in the garage the whole time.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And how the sun just randomly happened to pull out in.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that this whole case could it hinges on.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, give me a break.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: That was too convenient.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: Way too convenient.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no way the police would have missed it unless they should have said we found it behind the fridge or something more believable.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, covered in covered in dust bunnies under the fridge.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: It would have been more believable.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: It would have.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: It would have.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Before we end.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, ma'am.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about the Peterson trifecta.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: I I initially wanted to call them the Holy Trinity.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: No, not the Holy Trinity.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I was like, no, maybe we go with Trifecta.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: So we have done um Scott Peterson.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: This one was Michael Peterson, and in two weeks' time, you are gonna get Drew Peterson.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: We are gonna give you the full three-pack.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: The full three-pack, yeah.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's just odd how these three men, all of their last names are Peterson, and they have all allegedly, or not allegedly, factually murdered one or multiple of their wives or multiple women.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and obviously Peterson is a popular name.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: So like it doesn't mean like if your last name is Peterson, it doesn't mean you're a murderer.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: But um it's just it's odd how those coincidences all lined up.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: It does and it does actually make it kind of hard for recording the podcast because you have to keep, especially when you've got Lacey and Stacey.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Lacey Lacey Peterson and Stacy Peterson, yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes you I've gotta like double check, I'm not slipping, and uh it's true, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so what is it like Peterson now for me, unfortunately, is a name that is synonymous with like true crime and with a man murdering his wife.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just unfortunate.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Which is very unfortunate, but like what are some other like names that you just immediately associate with definitely gay, definitely Bundy too.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um who else is a notorious killer?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean West, Fred and Rose West.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't necessarily think West, but when I hear Fred and Rose, I think because they're more unusual names, I guess.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they're very Manson, definitely.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yes, Manson.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And Manson kind of just sounds evil, like an evil name.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if that's just because Charles Manson and Marilyn Manson and his whole aesthetic is like evil, dark, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but to me, Manson just has like a really dark ring to it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: No one else off the top of your head.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you asked me it any other time when we weren't recording, I could name about a hundred.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: When we weren't on vacation shooting pina collected while recording.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: You guys, we're at the beach right now, and uh we are drinking some delicious pina coladas that Sarah has made.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the pina colada queen.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: They are so incredibly delicious.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: And later we get to eat true crime trifle.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: True crime trifle.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: True crime trifle, say that five times fast after 10 pina coladas or not.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: And talking of being at the beach, the Gilbert Beach Killer will have been released by now, but that was the week we were at the beach, the week that you got to all hear that.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just, I didn't plan that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: It just kind of happened.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Kinda cool, though.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: All right, well, next week is Next week is Betty Broderick, yeah.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as I'm sure all of you guys have heard, she recently passed and it brought the whole story back.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: So when it happened, it was like 89 when it happened, maybe.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Don't quote me on that, but I was like a year old.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I remember the trial I think was 91.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was a little bit older.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just a little bit.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Just a little bit.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I remember seeing like bits and pieces on the news, but I was like very, very young.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: See, and I didn't because I hadn't moved here.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: You were in England.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it didn't.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, even if it did make it over there, I wasn't watching it at that age.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I did like a a a deep dive.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I literally watched seven hours of footage from her trial.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I it was an infamous case already, but everything that I found out blew me away.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully that's gonna be a good episode for you guys.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to hear it.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to tell it.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: All right, so that's what we've got coming for you next week.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: What are you doing next?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Any idea?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: Drew Peterson.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, what are you doing after Drew Peterson?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, um I did I did come up with something, but it's it's pinnacle audit out of my head right now.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: The crash?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Pinnacle audit out of your head right now.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think we should do the crash soon because it's so current.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: But no, there was another one that I was like, oh, I'll do that next.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Evil Genius?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna do Evil Genius, but I'm just not feeling it right now.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not feeling that.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: I I started to re-watch it because I was like, that'll be such a good one.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: And it will, but it's gonna I'm gonna have to be in a frame of mind where I can cope with all of that.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um I might I might just move away from wife killers for a hot minute because the Peterson trio have given me a complex.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I agree.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I may have to find something that's a little more Helen and Olga-ish or something.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so to be determined for Sarah.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um Although as soon as we turn this microphone up, I'll remember.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: You'll remember it, yeah.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome after show.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Really good after show.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: The Pinic a lot has helped.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we should make a habit of that, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: All right, guys, until next time.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: Be divis.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: But not deadly.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Bye from the beach.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: From the beach,