Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 536 - How Did A 20-year-old Vietnamese-Canadian Producer Get A Track On A Drake Album? - FrancisGotHeat

Transcript

536 - How Did A 20-year-old Vietnamese-Canadian Producer Get A Track On A Drake Album? - FrancisGotHeat · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Vietnamese podcast today.
0:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I have Francis got heat.
0:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we start, I just want to shout out to a dear friend of mine, Jay Huang, who introduced us, Francis, you are a significant producer at such a young age.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: spending time with me today on this podcast and agreeing to come on.
0:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me, man.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a pleasure.
0:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, shout out, Jay, man.
0:37
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the guy.
0:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Jay is the guy.
0:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Jay is such a, yeah, thank you.
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Jay appreciate you of bringing us together.
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And uh,
0:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I have done so much reading about your life and what you've done and you are coming from somewhere not even in LA.
0:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You grew up in Canada and I know that both your mom and dad are musicians.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So can you take this back even further what you know about your mom and dad getting to Canada and then walking us through sort of their both musicians.
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to hear
1:15
[SPEAKER_01]: of it.
1:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So how they got to Canada, obviously they escaped the war in Vietnam.
1:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure which year, but they ended up at a refugee camp, also I don't remember which camp, I'll be like Malaysia or something like that, but they actually ended up in Australia first.
1:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So technically my mom did not really incitizen.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: and then eventually after my old brother was born, they came to Canada where they had the rest of us, like the other five children, so the six children in total.
1:54
[SPEAKER_00]: How did they meet?
1:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not even sure how they met.
1:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They met in Vietnam though.
2:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I don't know.
2:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know the full story of how that happened.
2:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: They probably told me when I was like super young, but I don't remember the details on that.
2:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're both musicians, though.
2:13
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I know, right?
2:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they both play, but not as profession, though.
2:21
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't even want me to do music as a profession.
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, because I was like reading that.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I read that, you know, they're both musicians, but I'm like, I don't even know,
2:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Musician parents want their kids to be musicians, you know?
2:38
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, not at all.
2:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a mom was like a singer at her church back in Vietnam and stuff, you know?
2:43
[SPEAKER_00]: She sings in my dad's guitar and like they put us in like me and my siblings in our music lessons as like a way to I guess.
2:53
[SPEAKER_00]: deal with like stress and stuff when we're older, which will rely on music.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But then like when I told them I want to do them as a child, like a real child, they're like, no, you can't do that.
3:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Looks like not a real child.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And so sustainable.
3:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I understand it, like they probably didn't come escape Vietnam for me to make music.
3:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it worked out.
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: What the...
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: What age were you when you were like, I think I'm gonna let my mom and dad know that I'm gonna do this.
3:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, because that takes a lot of courage and guts knowing your mom and dad don't want us to do it, we know that they don't want it.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to be at a certain age where you're right and ready and you're like, you know what, I'm gonna like do this because I know I can do it.
3:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I have it in me.
3:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, can you,
3:36
[SPEAKER_01]: play that for us.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I kind of knew I wanted to do it like from the rip like off my first beat as terrible as it was like I made my first beat and I knew like hey this is so fine.
3:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to do this for the rest of my life and even though it was a job.
3:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But then I would say around 17 when I was like finishing up high school.
3:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But usually kids are doing like college applications and stuff.
4:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And like going towards whatever seeing campuses and whatever.
4:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wasn't doing any of that.
4:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I wasn't applying to school and doing anything.
4:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I just told them, like, yeah, I don't feel like applying, like, I'm going to take a gap here, like a leap here.
4:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm going to take a year off, you know, just like an excuse, obviously.
4:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I had the benefit of being the youngest of six children.
4:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, you know, like, they don't work five older kids are like, okay, you know, what?
4:33
[SPEAKER_00]: As long as Europe K, they accepted it.
4:36
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't happy about my decision.
4:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I think like because I was the sixth kid, they were just kind of tired and they're like, okay, you know, let's just send them to him.
4:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, other six kids and they've given lessons or whatever they're playing music in the house and are you the most gifted or did they go, hey, you know, he's a really gifted child in music.
4:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He gets it.
5:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're just going to give him a free pass here.
5:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, I would say I'm definitely not the most gifted because I have siblings that are better than me at piano, I have siblings that are better than violin and stuff, but I was the most, I guess, experimental, like I like to pick up different instruments and try to learn it.
5:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I was basically like a master of non-ajacoval traits,
5:28
[SPEAKER_01]: if they were better and in your mind you're like, wait, these guys are a little bit better, but there has to be something inside of you that go, no, no, no, no, no, they might be better at piano or whatever, but there is something inside of me that is creating
5:46
[SPEAKER_01]: this direction that I'm going to take it that is actually a highly skilled thing that I have confidence that I can take it to the future.
5:56
[SPEAKER_01]: What is that?
5:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And what can you tell us about that moment?
6:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
6:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So I remember how old it was or anything, but I remember there was a moment where they
6:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking about it.
6:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you know what?
6:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I may not be the best piano player in the world.
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Realistically, I have no shot, but like, I've been surrounded by great piano players my whole life.
6:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you know, I bet you none of them can create their own music.
6:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they could play this written music really well, but if you ask them to create a song, I bet you they can't do it, but that's something that I could do at that point.
6:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Creating my own melodies putting like music together.
6:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, you know what this might be like something special Like I think I have a real shot and becoming or a better shot at becoming one of the best producers in the world rather than one of the best pianists in the world And that's like the moment.
6:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
6:48
[SPEAKER_00]: How old were you?
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe like 15 or 16 at this point where like I came to realize that like you know I have a better shot at this than being a piano player
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: and when you were doing that had you done many years of that already to know that?
7:09
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'd maybe been producing for like three, maybe four years, but like I've had like that of that confidence about my own ability though.
7:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you need that to succeed.
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You definitely do.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You definitely need it.
7:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And as somebody who is
7:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Putting together.
7:32
[SPEAKER_01]: this ideas of melody and rhythm and just creating something from nothing, it blows my mind to think that at 15, you know that that confidence of like, I can do the creation of this better than like, you know, piano playing or anything else and you know, piano players are not creating.
7:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty phenomenal at 15 to know that you could one day be one of the best at it.
8:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know where that mentality comes from to be honest, but like, I think like, it's ever since like I discovered music production, like I was so driven towards it, like I dedicated like every minute that I could to creating music in.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though like, I knew, I never had a doubt that I wouldn't make it for me, it was more so a matter of time thing.
8:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they say, it's not, it's not if, but it's when, right?
8:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of young now, 16, you know, I'll just wait till like I'm 19, 20, like the shit will probably work out.
8:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's incredible.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And you, you grew up in Toronto.
8:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, grew up in Toronto.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is the music scene like for you at that time Toronto music scene or the idea of like breaking out of Toronto and going into I understand that you know you finally make connections in LA like how did that all go down?
9:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the music scene in Toronto at the time.
9:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It was starting to boom a little bit.
9:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, we had to drink, we had to drink in the weekends, things like that, the world.
9:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And like a lot of producers were kind of to start blowing up too, the boy one.
9:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it team audiences?
9:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, off of all of them.
9:21
[SPEAKER_00]: a pull of Drake because you know he's like the catalyst for like a lot of this stuff going on in this city and how I create the connections in LA is that I actually had an entertainment lawyer from Toronto and he happened to be like the lawyer for the Drake and like Nelly for Toro and things like that as well and then on.
9:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, how did you meet this lawyer?
9:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So random!
9:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's through this program called the Remix Project that they have in Toronto, which helps you to use, like, helping them with their visions in the arts, whether it's music, the music business, videography, fashion, all those hippo rounds, you know, and like one of the talks with, like, to have the lawyer come in and just educate us about entertainment,
10:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And then on how old were you at that time when you managed I was like 15 and 16 around then okay So you've been 16 you're in high school you meet this lawyer.
10:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you just show up to to this talk?
10:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was in the remix project, like the program.
10:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to apply for the concept of 20 people.
10:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was accepted.
10:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would show up every day.
10:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And like sometimes they have these classes, sometimes you just go in and just make music, you know?
10:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's already a different talk.
10:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I went into this office one day because he, he's a lawyer, but he also has like a label and like music management thing.
10:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, like I've messed up one of the artists that I came in to meet with one of the managers and then I ran into the lawyer And he was just learning more about me and he heard the music and like he saw the drive so From then on he's like you're anything you need just like it me like I'll do it pro bono I just want to see you in I just want to make sure you're taking care of Chris like there's people in this industry That will try to get advantage or you so like from then on
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, he was helping me out.
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: He introduced me to, um, this producer named circuit.
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a Canadian producer.
11:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But he does a lot of big hits for, like, at the time, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, like all these smash, like Britney Spears, you know?
11:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, um,
11:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So I started working under their studio, out in Toronto, and then I would be sending circuit music.
11:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when I graduated high school, when I was 17, they flew me out to LA to meet me just to see what it's like and stuff like that.
11:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was amazing.
11:53
[SPEAKER_00]: That was an amazing experience at the time.
11:55
[SPEAKER_00]: At 17,
11:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is crazy.
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, but look, as a business person, I can't imagine, I would just fly 17 year out for no reason to LA.
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: There's got to be some reason that they were seeing at a 17 year was a child, but a 17 year old child who has the goods is going to be flown out to LA.
12:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to try to figure out how to work with them, right?
12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: That's probably what they're thinking.
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What did they see in you at 17 that they flew you out to LA?
12:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was definitely.
12:37
[SPEAKER_00]: The drive was crazy.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be at their studio all the time, like any moment I had, like I would be there taking up their spaces, taking over the room to make music all hours of the day, you know.
12:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It was that and also the skill, like they saw the potential what I could do at such a young age and like how hard I was working.
12:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, I think ideally in their mind, like I would have
13:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, unfortunately, that didn't work as planned because I didn't think it was a good idea to sign at such a young age, like 17, 18, you know.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Why not?
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Why wasn't in a good idea?
13:16
[SPEAKER_00]: could this would be an honest and realistic like that deal would have been I guess a bad deal like since there's like low figures like low low number like monetarily and like the term was probably would be kind of long so yeah you know what maybe like $25,000 that's good to you when you're 17 because you have nothing but like if you're thinking about it how long did you live
13:47
[SPEAKER_00]: it was tempting.
13:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It was tempting.
13:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to lie.
13:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like the most money I've ever heard of in my life, you know, at that point.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think about it and like, okay, realistically from living in LA, like, that's not going to last me very long at all.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know what's crazy.
14:03
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people do sign those kind of contracts.
14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know, and then you just pack up in like a year and a half or two, you're like, I cannot live for 25 grand a year in LA and you tap out.
14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You break contracts and you just like, you hide tell it back home.
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but that's like where the confidence thing that was talking about kicks in is like that's what they're offering me.
14:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't done anything yet.
14:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know I am going to do something.
14:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So imagine the price when I actually get it pop in, but like at that point nothing had happened yet, but I knew I just knew like you, but keep doing what I do for a couple more years like it's just going to take off.
14:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to work out.
14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Damn, that sounds so encouraging, you know, for everybody.
14:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, but the, the, the really driving factor is you got to have the confidence to know that you're going to, you're going to make it, but I'm trying to figure out, I'm trying to get at, at that thing.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: that made you understand why you had the confidence.
15:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know if you can break it down right now.
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go back in time and go, here are the reasons why because maybe, and I'll help you come up with it and give you some prompts, maybe.
15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have a lot of ideas in music, in different lyrics, in different melodies, and you just had so much that when you compared it to engineers or producers left and right, you just like, I have a whole lot more than you do.
15:33
[SPEAKER_01]: One, maybe Mike, the quality of what I'm putting out is way above what you can even imagine, because I'm like running backflips inside of my head over,
15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: the room.
15:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what was it about your confidence at the time?
15:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it sounds like a business confidence as well.
15:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, just musical, but you had to business acumen to understand 25 granny's not going to cut it.
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say, where did this confidence come from?
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess
16:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I would do things like beat battles, I guess, and even if I didn't win, a lot of people would be rocking with my stuff, you know, even at a young age, and people would really like my stuff.
16:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And I knew the music was good.
16:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew the music was good.
16:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, maybe there are some things I need to work on, like the drums or the mixing, but I knew
16:21
[SPEAKER_00]: the melodies, the sound selection, everything else was good around it.
16:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, I think I would say production was not as accessible as today, so to now you can open up any website and find pretty much the five melodies everywhere.
16:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Back then, the sample game wasn't
16:41
[SPEAKER_00]: big as it is now.
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like either you're sampling old records and giving up all your publishing or you're creating melodies but I feel like at that time my melodies were really intricate and like sometimes I would try to emulate old sounding samples but I think that's what like gave me like the edge.
16:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let's talk about this four, four, two, two track with Drake.
17:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you walk me through the creation of that?
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: How it launched you, how it propelled your career?
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it sounds like that's what really kicked off everything.
17:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So funny story about that.
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I made that joint in high school for a graduated.
17:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought
17:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, like I met Drake's manager through the lawyer that I've worked up with and then I was just emailing them a bunch of ideas.
17:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, anything I made that, I was fired.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I would just send it over to them, like spamming them with music, Rome, then one day they hit me back to like, oh, we like this vibe.
17:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was sending them like inner loot, type of stuff, things with no drums, right?
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause real moody atmospheric stuff.
17:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And then like, I'll send me more stuff, like there's more like inner loot.
18:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And then one day, I made 44, 22, just like at my mom's crib.
18:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I wasn't even to the press or like a sad kid or nothing like I just came up with that fight and then I sent it over to them and then hit me right back.
18:17
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, you know, hold that beat for me.
18:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Hold that beat.
18:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not cool.
18:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll hold that for you.
18:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is like 2014 bro.
18:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Like yeah, sure.
18:25
[SPEAKER_00]: No problem.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: No one else is going to take the beat.
18:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I made it for you guys.
18:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, years go on, he drops a project.
18:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not on it.
18:33
[SPEAKER_00]: He drops another project.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not on it.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not even thinking about it.
18:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still sending songs or whatever, but one day I'm chilling an LA just working.
18:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I get an email from the, they're like, hey, still have the files for this song from like three years ago.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, shit, I hope I do, be the way it is so old, like I hope the fire still opens up and like thank God, like it did, and then like I sent out no stems for everything, and then I'll be at three years later, your song comes out, I'm like damn, I actually did it.
19:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I like 17 year old me, I actually did that role.
19:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have to change anything when you sent the stems to them, the fire to them?
19:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Not nothing at all, they wanted to keep it exactly the same.
19:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That is insane.
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What a cool story.
19:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So you were 20 when it got picked up and put on the album?
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
19:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It was about 20 or 21 when it came out.
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Something like that.
19:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't want me asking, what did the money, what was that light?
19:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Did they, like, there was a negotiation to it?
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That you're here.
19:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
19:46
[SPEAKER_00]: To be honest, it was pretty easy.
19:48
[SPEAKER_00]: doing the deal with his team because they give you the offer was fair.
19:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything was fair about it.
19:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was pretty smooth and pretty easy to be honest.
20:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And had you already been making money at that point?
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Up to that point?
20:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it had just started making money.
20:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So like before like the
20:08
[SPEAKER_00]: the Drake placement like that year previously like I had started going crazy like I did the big Sean and my name I did a Isaiah Rashad, I did App Soul and then like I was doing Bryce and Tiller and then Drake on top of this you know so like things were starting to roll and it's just propelled it to another stratosphere.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You have Colby Bryant up there in the back, you know, for all of the people are listening to it.
20:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:36
[SPEAKER_01]: What does Colby have anything to do with your work ethic or the amount of sounds like you just produced a lot of material.
20:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I respect Kobe a lot, like especially his mentality, how he approaches things, relentless, you know, a hundred percent effort all the time.
20:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, put your shots up every thousand shots a day in the gym, like I really, like, I really appreciate how he approaches the game.
21:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, that's one thing you could take away from Kobe Bryant's like the mentality, the hard work, like you, you don't have to be the most talented, but if you work hard and like put your mind to it, like you can make it happen, you could be the greatest goal or whatever if you want.
21:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I,
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: watched this one clip of this older artist.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: He's trying to maybe 70s or 60s white guy with the beard and he and he said, my father taught me that the only way to make money is by being a painter.
21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes the only way you're going to make a million is by being a painter and that and that and that should just trippy because when I think about you going down this path to music the only way that you're going to make millions is through your music right it's like but that's not the way the rest of the Vietnamese world thinks how to all about music there's like the only way to be broke is to be become a musician right it's like the biggest way to be broke is be but when you add the Kobe
22:05
[SPEAKER_01]: mentality of, like, abundant production.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You just put out so much volume of tracks.
22:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And you go at it really hard with a lot of confidence.
22:18
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no way that you're going to not make a lot of money at this.
22:22
[SPEAKER_00]: be exactly like, they say like every song you make is like a lottery ticket, you know, like every beat you make is a chance to win.
22:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So like if I only make like 10 beats expecting all 10 to hit, the likelihood of that happening is damn new zero.
22:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I can make like a thousand,
22:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, at least 10 of them, maybe 100 of them will get picked up, bro.
22:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a volume game, a numbers game.
22:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in anything creative, like I think Picasso did 140,000 pieces, whether it's a napkin drawing or sculptor or, you know, a sculpt or painting.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He did like 140,000 and then there's like a, uh,
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you think about how good you become as an artist after, I don't know, the first 10,000, they say the first 10,000 hours and then you start, you just start really getting good at what you do and you put a lot of work out and it becomes a reality that you start to make a really good living at this.
23:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, um, I didn't even know how to make money off music when I first started, it wasn't really a concern to me, but like, I obviously when you get older like that's a real thing.
23:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just happened to work out.
23:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because we're talking about numbers and doing a lot of volume, I didn't have this plan in what I want to talk about, because I wanted to talk about more about you as a Vietnamese person in Vietnam recently.
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But before we get to that though, this idea of like AI and how quickly you can create things
24:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that getting in the way of the music world today?
24:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, you know, I could see a lot of AI stuff showing up on Spotify.
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: How does this affect your work?
24:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, there's a lot of new AI tools being used for the song generators and stuff.
24:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not the biggest fan or those.
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe AI can be used as a tool to help creation, but to make the whole song for you and sing it for you, damn not a fan of, does it affect me?
24:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it directly affects me as a via, but obviously, monetarily, it does eat into some money for musicians because there's a lot of them.
24:42
[SPEAKER_00]: AI artists get in the share off of Spotify and stuff like that and that's taken away from real musicians, you know, when we got to share the pie with the AI But like I'm not scared of it taking over my job or anything at this point like I've heard the music it can make like it's good, but like
24:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It will never be, I mean, I wouldn't say never, but as of right now, it's not better than like top tier producers or anything, like you can hear the quality difference.
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you hearing?
25:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you share what kind of, you know, what are the the main significant differences between something that you write out for us and what AI would put together
25:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Well from what I have heard from AI because I don't use it like that.
25:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not like super tapped into how everything sounds but from what I've heard with AI.
25:35
[SPEAKER_00]: There's usually like a generic patterns or things that I usually follow is like if you listen to like.
25:42
[SPEAKER_00]: five different AI songs, you probably recognize, okay, it always does this for a transition, it always does this for a bridge or the certain styles that it mimics.
25:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess they learn off the same model.
25:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And also as a quality, like hearing quality, it's like listening to like you two downloaded MP3 that was a really low quality, because like it's missing the high end and like the crispness of the music, you know, and the vocals.
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially the focus, you can really hear the artifacts on those when you say, but I guess the average person can't tell, but as a music guy, I could hear all of that.
26:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, it's weird that you say that because the average person can't articulate what you just did, you know, you articulated something that I'm like, that's why I asked the question.
26:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to hear you articulate that.
26:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I'm listening as a normal person, an average person like me, there's something off.
26:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It just feels flat, if it was very bland, but now I know because what you just said, like the contrast are not there, the different feels like accidental moments of like, just human,
26:47
[SPEAKER_01]: error, or human, the sound quality is just not there, and everything's flat.
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So we can recognize it like on a deep sense, but we get, like articulate like somebody who's in it like you.
27:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a some weird thing, it's like to be honest, like the ideas that they generally are not bad.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That's necessarily, you know, but like, yes, definitely, it's missing the soul, like,
27:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you get offered to go to Vietnam, right?
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: On this recent trip, had you gone to Vietnam before?
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, I had, I had been twice previously, but I had only started going as October of 2025.
27:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's pretty recent.
27:41
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the story.
27:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was your first trip October 2020, 25.
27:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was my first time ever, over there.
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, was your initial thoughts when you first got to Vietnam?
27:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And why did you go to Vietnam the first time?
27:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, first time I went, honestly, like I had never been to Vietnam before in my whole life.
27:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You never needed to go?
28:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I never really, when I was younger, I never really had the inkling to go, just because my parents would tell me stories about it.
28:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, they would tell me things about it, not the most positive things, but it's like, oh, it's the scary place, like, dangerous things like that.
28:15
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I would hear not so good things, so I like, oh, you know what?
28:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, the food's probably good, but like, you know, I'm not too keen on it right now, but um,
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Our couple years back I was going to create a lot just to work to music and stuff right and then one of my friends over there he's always joking with me That can grow how come you're always here, but you never go to Vietnam, bro, you're just supposed to be Vietnamese.
28:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, honestly, bro, you are right.
28:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
28:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to go to Vietnam.
28:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And then so I went to Vietnam in 2025.
28:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, it was also like my birthday around the time.
28:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, okay, birthday trip to Vietnam for the first time.
28:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe make some connections over here musically.
28:55
[SPEAKER_00]: See what happens, bro.
28:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, the minute I touched down, I'm like, wow, this place is so different from what I was told.
29:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's so nice here, like here.
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone telling nice, like, everyone's welcome in, like, it's nothing what you think of as, yeah, yeah.
29:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, my mom told me, like, oh, don't, don't, where truly don't bring this, like, on the chop off your hand, if you wear it, I'm like, maybe back in the day, but like, wow, like, it's pretty nice.
29:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what I've been on is nothing like what they say.
29:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially people who haven't been back in 20, 30 years, you know, it's like, yeah, yeah, and we're living with that shit.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We're living with the remnants of that like scare culture, that fear culture, that howds are entire understanding of what this place is like, we're living under like weird propaganda that comes from our family sometimes.
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So new.
29:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you know, don't eat the herbs, don't drink any ice.
29:53
[SPEAKER_00]: They tell me everything not to do.
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But like day one is breaking on the rules and like eating all the herbs like with all the food, drinking ice, all of that, like, I mean, you can't open to you.
30:04
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no stomach virus or nothing.
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank God, you know.
30:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed my first experience.
30:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I met a lot of great people, a lot of great musicians, I love the vibe of Vietnam.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very... As much as it is, like, hot soul and everyone's going everywhere the same direction.
30:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like...
30:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't end up very, very calm to take things at their own pace at the same time, which I think is really, really cool.
30:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like over here, bro.
30:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, where it, where it, where it, where it, where it, where it, okay, I'm off the clock.
30:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, let's still work.
30:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's still work, you know, over there.
30:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, you know what, no, I think it's time for a coffee.
30:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what, oh, you know, let's time for another coffee.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
30:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing.
30:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is amazing.
30:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at the point now, though, where I love both of it.
30:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I love both of it.
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the Western way, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go
31:17
[SPEAKER_01]: wherever I am, I'm going to just fucking sew, I'm just going to fully enjoy the experience of living wherever.
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Because let's face it.
31:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of things to enjoy living in the West, right?
31:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just so much to enjoy.
31:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we don't enjoy it, we're like living in I've lived in some weird space where I just used to just fantasize about living in Vietnam.
31:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You're there and you get to enjoy it.
31:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just sounds like that, you got to reach that level.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
31:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But even being in Vietnam for like a month, I'm like, even being there, like being really realistic, there are certain things I do miss about like Toronto or whatever, you know.
31:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, when I'm in Toronto, I think the same thing like Dan, I wish I was in Vietnam right now, probably like, I wish I could just hop on a grabbing just go eat this or go eat that right now.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: How many times have you been in Vietnam?
32:12
[SPEAKER_00]: including my last trip now three two three two times.
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, tell me about the last trip because the last trip sounds very significant What was the the reason that you took the last trip and what did you do there?
32:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so this last trip.
32:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I went out to do the show called Tina say hi Which is like they're being a music show over there similar to like those K-pop
32:36
[SPEAKER_00]: music show competitions you know where they make songs and like create a group but in this instance like they're not trying to create a group that just trying to make a system music competition show so I went over there as the guest judge but not a guest judge I guess producer for one of the episodes and yeah but a time this comes out the episode will be already yeah hopefully you know y'all can check that out yeah can you can you walk me through
33:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so they wanted me to come in and I think it's like the total of five groups of artists for this episode and my role is to help my group or my team create the best song that they can for the live stage performance.
33:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And my, initially, like, we had like an outfit song, something rhythmic, then we ended up doing a valid funny enough, you know, and like, I want to say, values on my specialty.
33:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, initially, I had gone into the show thinking, like, okay, you know, I'm the guest producer.
33:39
[SPEAKER_00]: They probably want me to do me, like, do what I do, like, which are like, hip hop or on beat, things like that.
33:44
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like,
33:46
[SPEAKER_00]: about sitting down with the group and that that's absolutely what they don't do.
33:51
[SPEAKER_00]: They do more so slow songs, valleys and things so that sort of, right?
33:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So um...
33:57
[SPEAKER_00]: In the middle of the creation process, I had to realize, you know what?
34:00
[SPEAKER_00]: As much as I am to guess producer, like I am a producer, my job remains the same.
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I have to make sure that the group gets the best song possible for them, but like who cares about me showcasing my ability.
34:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not here for them here to help them make the best song possible.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so are there other or so there's five teams?
34:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there other producers that are like you on the other teams?
34:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this special episode is featuring all international guest producers.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So each group has their own international guest producer.
34:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was one of them.
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: That is dope.
34:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, are they all on your fish?
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Be honest, are they all on your level in caliber?
34:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I was hard to say, because we're all on different genres, but I would say they're very, very good at what they do.
34:50
[SPEAKER_00]: They do a lot of like K-pop electronic music and things like that, and then like, I'm like, they have pop R&B guys.
34:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're both very successful in our own fields, I would say.
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's four more of them, or how many more producers like you did they?
35:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it five guys from five teams or
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: How did that break down?
35:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's like, is there four or five total producers for the five teams?
35:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So what did you learn about the music scene of Vietnam when you got there?
35:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It means that seeing they definitely is bustling right now.
35:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's still early as far as a labeled and like publishing and done like that goal, but like they're very talented, they're very driven, they work hard and like a lot of them are actually a big multi-talented day.
35:42
[SPEAKER_00]: in the West, you know, artists like maybe they're just a singer or maybe they only wrapped or something.
35:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But like over there, they'll be the singer, they'll be the dancer, they'll even produce sometimes to play the instruments and stuff like they're pretty damn talented, bro.
36:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I was not expecting that.
36:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I first did the show, I thought it'd just be like, oh, we haven't done the song and they're going to get writers on it to write for them.
36:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But that was not the case.
36:09
[SPEAKER_00]: They wrote everything themselves and they recorded everything.
36:12
[SPEAKER_00]: They created self-sufficient room.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
36:16
[SPEAKER_01]: How far are we from K-pop?
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: from where K-pop blew up to us being a world brand of V-pop or whatever.
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to call it like that level of like you listening to Korean spoken word lyrics.
36:39
[SPEAKER_01]: on like your radio station in Toronto and LA, like I hear K-pop, I hear Korean on the airwaves on Kiss FM here in LA.
36:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that happened like five years ago.
36:52
[SPEAKER_01]: When do you think and how do you think we can get there?
36:57
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a tough question.
36:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe like five to eight years maybe.
37:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Because right now, um, and I'm still trying to piggyback off of the like K-pop model, you know, so like Sonic Lee would ever like they're still trying to mimic it to a certain extent.
37:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think like,
37:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And also I think like the language barrier is still there because I believe Korean is easier to speak and pronounce than Vietnamese because we have so much like accents and tonal things going on, you know.
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So like that's on parallel in itself, but
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I think identity-wise, we got to just take a step back and just be like, hey, how do we want to represent our culture and what makes us different and present that to a real stage rather than, okay, this is hot right now, this trend is hot, okay, it's just hot, but it real quick because it's doing numbers right now, but I don't know how sustainable that is, yeah, I think we just need to, because the thing is really unique about Vietnamese music, like we have micro tonal stuff for the guide learning and stuff like that, you know, and we have a lot of,
38:04
[SPEAKER_00]: culture of like blending genres like baleiro and all those things so they take that things not yeah a lot of things are those things are now Vietnamese too so like how do we present that to the world in a way that's palatable and still Vietnamese okay so somebody who is grown up in the West like you who has like this sensibility of like
38:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Korean music, Western identity, and hip hop, and when you listen to Bollero, and when you listen to Gailung, those are very, the parallel for me would be like the funk in the fish sauce, the funk in the fermented shrimp paste that we have.
38:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Bolero and and and Galoon are it's funk is super funky how and tono now we add the third thing is the tonality of the spoken words that we have in Vietnamese those three things are not
39:03
[SPEAKER_01]: easily palatable to the West.
39:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It might work to really highlight that those things in our culture in Vietnam.
39:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I can imagine you're going, okay, I'm going to pick and choose these three things, you know, the Galoon, Sample, some Bollero, and even the Golden Era of like Sagan Rock in the sixties.
39:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And then now you have to deal with this tonal stuff.
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to bring all of that in
39:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
39:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Super tough.
39:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I think like it would make it easier to transition to global of like, they did some like maybe hybrid records like partially English, partially Vietnamese, you know, there's a lot of them and young people in Vietnam that speak like really good English, like I was surprised.
39:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to lie when I went over there.
39:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's insane.
39:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: There's kids.
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, well, how long have you been living in Vietnam?
39:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, where did you come?
40:00
[SPEAKER_01]: What part of America did you come from?
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But part of Canada did you come from?
40:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But they never were real.
40:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Real.
40:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I met this one.
40:07
[SPEAKER_00]: One worker at like a floating store, like he's speaking to me in English and like, oh, how'd you learn then?
40:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Funny enough, he's like, oh, I used to watch friends like the TV show.
40:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, where, like, you learn English like this from watching Joey and trying to learn from, it was crazy.
40:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's insane, it's really crazy.
40:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But you bring up these like really valid points in music.
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Vietnamese because, you know, my question has always been in the last seven years of doing the work that I do is like, how do we establish a
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: and listen to Vietnamese words on the airways in America and Canada and all over the world.
40:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in Mexico, you hear Korean on the airways and you know, you get these like massive crowds from when BTS came and performed there a few months ago, you were just like, what in the world is happening?
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: When you see like in Mexico City, the main plaza is like
41:07
[SPEAKER_01]: tens and tens of thousands of Mexicans gathering to hear BTS play a free concert.
41:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like just mind blowing to see this, you know, I dream about that for the Vietnamese community.
41:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's guys like you really, Mike Van, he's the CEO of Billboard.
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a Vietnamese guy here in LA.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys like you and Mike Van, you know, are at the forefront of bringing and delivering
41:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, it's definitely a special time for music in Vietnam.
41:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, we've had our moments on TikTok, you know, songs who go viral for a little bit, you know, and like, that's a great start.
41:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's a sign that like, you know, people are interested in what Vietnamese music can do, because it's like, we haven't been, we haven't, like, found figure out the form of it, I guess.
42:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like our form of it, I got to be a special mix, you know,
42:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you going to dedicate any of your bandwidth to that or are you just so busy with creating like your brand of hip hop and your brand of R&B that, you know, it's not really a priority.
42:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I think at this point in my career, that's something I actually do want to focus on and work on.
42:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I think when I was younger, I actually didn't really care about doing any music outside of North America, so now that I'm older, I see the world for what it is.
42:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I definitely want to help bring Vietnam to the forefront.
42:40
[SPEAKER_00]: If I could be a part of that journey, I'll create the sound for it now where help in any capacity
42:50
[SPEAKER_00]: When are you going back to Vietnam?
42:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure maybe this winter because my mom was telling me she wants to go back.
42:57
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been back, mom had had been back.
43:00
[SPEAKER_00]: on my dad, yes, my mom, it's probably been, I wouldn't say at least 10 years since she went back.
43:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's the discussion around the family dinner table about your experience in Vietnam versus what they thought?
43:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you like, imagine you having a school them now and like, yo yo, whatever you thought is not what you think it is.
43:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
43:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling my mom, like, oh, they don't drive on the sidewalk, no more.
43:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, like, you know, they probably dealt with a lot of corruption growing up, like, yeah, I didn't get extorted one time, like, I was telling them everything like, yo, everything he told me was kind of wrong.
43:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm like, I'm not doing that guy, but yeah, yeah, wrong.
43:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I went back for the first time, you know, 20, some of the years ago, and I remember having to sit like a five or $10 bill every time we go through the customs.
43:51
[SPEAKER_01]: The last time I went back, I had accidentally had my passport in my pocket and there was $100 bill that my brother had given me for some reason and it was accidentally put inside the passport.
44:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I should, you know, this is a real, true ass story.
44:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The $100 was inside the passport and then, you know, when you get to the customs you and I just gave the thing, $100 bill inside the passport and the guy literally had to be
44:21
[SPEAKER_01]: He just gave it back to me.
44:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it could have been like a bribe.
44:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It could have been like whatever it was, but it just happened to be in my pocket at the same time the passport was there and they just handed it back and I was like blown away because he could have kept it and I could have been like, oh, I made a mistake, right?
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but no, he gave it back and I just I was like, all right, I just got to another level here.
44:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that is so different and even like the language is so different too.
44:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling my mom like, you know, they don't say this anymore.
44:51
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't call the airport.
44:52
[SPEAKER_00]: That anymore.
44:52
[SPEAKER_00]: They call it this.
44:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't realize how outdated like our Vietnamese was.
44:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you know how crazy this conversation today is between you and me is that we are
45:11
[SPEAKER_01]: three years you and I are going to be having a way different conversation about Vietnam because of your involvement in the music scene there and the work that I do continually exploring what we as a big community of Vietnamese all over the world we're going to like we're going to just see the intense changes that are going to be happening in Vietnam.
45:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll have a question for you.
45:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, when you first went back, like did you feel like there was like, like they treated like cute, like a certain way or anything like that?
45:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I definitely did feel that way.
45:52
[SPEAKER_01]: For the most part, it was very positive because a lot of us didn't do slimy things at that time.
45:58
[SPEAKER_01]: we still had a pretty decent track record.
46:01
[SPEAKER_01]: We're very innocent.
46:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're very naive.
46:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the guys that were going back in the early days.
46:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And we didn't have a bad reputation at that time.
46:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We were, I think, still pretty good guys.
46:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't flex much.
46:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We were very open.
46:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's some of the people that did flex.
46:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But as the years gone on, I think that the, you know,
46:25
[SPEAKER_01]: abused the people and, you know, used their leverage as VITQ people to, you know, I'm probably guilty of that in some way or four.
46:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that I'm an innocent, you know, person.
46:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I probably did a lot of things that I shouldn't have been doing in business and, you know, probably my relationships dealing with some family people that I could have been much more aware of my
46:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like when I went back, like, they instantly knew I was like, VQ.
47:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, it was all love though.
47:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It was all love.
47:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, obviously I heard stories of like, other VQs that go in there and giving like, other VQs a bad rap.
47:10
[SPEAKER_00]: But for the most part, bro, everyone was like, super respectful of showing love.
47:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
47:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a great experience.
47:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm so glad to hear that because I hope that the future that you get to affect in Vietnam is a positive one, you know, and that, you know, the love that we understand today between the diaspora, like people like us to go back to Vietnam is an honor and a privilege to be able to do the work that that we do.
47:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, how did you get Francis God heat the name?
47:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, it was like a random super random name.
47:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was literally just like a Twitter handle that I came up with.
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that didn't even make your music at this point.
47:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It just like, I don't know.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like a 12 year old kid on two hours of making.
47:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, what to do?
48:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Making an account, the card on that, the conference of that.
48:08
[SPEAKER_01]: phrase Francis got heat at 12.
48:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can imagine you being a very quiet soft spoken, shy kid at 12.
48:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But to say Francis got heat.
48:21
[SPEAKER_01]: huge.
48:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't even make music, but I don't even know how I came up with that.
48:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was like a pretty quiet kid.
48:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But I came up with that and then I just will happen to make music and the name fit.
48:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've been told to change it a bunch of times that coming up.
48:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just stuck with it.
48:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, what's wrong with it?
48:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Why did they tell you to change it?
48:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be like, oh, it's too long or like it seems kind of corny or whatever the case might be, you know, but I'm like, I mean, what else am I going to run with, like, I don't know, like I couldn't come up with a better alternative.
48:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's like, you know, it reminds me when you say that like people call it whatever whatever you think about tire the creator like what the hell is that.
49:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, now.
49:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Tyler the creator, like it just makes so much sense.
49:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, Francis got heat totally makes sense.
49:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 400% and like, whenever there's other producers and stuff that like have like similar name, like the got heat name, whenever they can new one pops up, people are sending to like, oh, bro, like this person stole your name or whatever.
49:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, who cares, bro?
49:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It might not probably wasn't original.
49:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they probably were thinking the same thing.
49:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I did it at the time, like who cares?
49:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just a name, like who are your icons in your life?
49:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like your music heroes, your art heroes, your film heroes, your cook chef heroes, do you have creators that you really think about and love?
50:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it will musically, obviously there's a bunch, like I would say,
50:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I have so much love for like the people in my city.
50:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So like a lot of my favorite producers are from city.
50:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like Boy, one to T minus one to girl.
50:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you got like the goats of the other shit like timber land for our chat.
50:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You go.
50:25
[SPEAKER_00]: even like the producer of Ryan Leslie one of my biggest inspirations like he got me into music production.
50:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I love cooking too so like kind of cliche like Gordon Ramsay got me into like cooking because like I used to watch all of those YouTube videos and like hell's kitchen kitchen nightmares like I love those shows.
50:46
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy that you look like, yeah, yeah, and then like even like movie wise like Christopher Nolan is the goat, bro, he's the goat.
50:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I never seen him made a bad film in my life.
50:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like prestige, the prestige one of my favorite movies in a while time.
51:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just love the concept of that movie man is like amazing.
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I always had this theory that when, you know, when you're really good at one thing like music.
51:16
[SPEAKER_01]: is gravitating towards cooking and other processes that are like outside of music, right?
51:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Film and because if you have no interest outside of the thing that you are good at, chances are you can't get good at the thing that you can't get it way up into the stratosphere if you're not interested and curious about other art forms.
51:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's like one of those things where like music is like an expression of how you're feeling or how you want people to feel when they listen to your music and it's like how do you get inspired to do that if you're not looking for that elsewhere Like I love watching movies and TV shows because like gives me a Like a visual representation of how the director or whoever wants to be the feel at a certain point and like
52:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what cooking is like, you see a lot of the ingredients or people eat it, you want them to feel a certain way like you want them to taste the sourness of this, whatever.
52:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you want to hit them with different things, you know?
52:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's kind of the same thing with music in that sense.
52:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a random question.
52:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your relationship like with the other five siblings in your house because of your success?
52:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're the youngest one.
52:33
[SPEAKER_01]: What, like, how does that all play out?
52:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm cool with all of them.
52:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was like growing up like we were super close, like I could other fans were, we were not.
52:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not like we hang out all the time, like we live together already.
52:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, I'm not hanging with you, bro.
52:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And like the age gaps, you know, and my oldest brother were like 11 years apart.
52:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like hard to find related ability when you're so young and like,
53:03
[SPEAKER_00]: all this brother's like an adult, you know, like it's hard to find that relatability, but as I got older, like you find things that you're you're both interested in like me and my second oldest brother, we do kind of hang out a lot because like we have a lot of the same interest in like music fashion or whatever it may be and like he helped support me a lot coming up too, like he would bring me to events when I was under age and things
53:31
[SPEAKER_00]: almost the things like they know what I do.
53:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they understood for a while to what extent.
53:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
53:37
[SPEAKER_00]: People around them will start telling them, like, oh, he did this, that, whatever.
53:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So it started making sense to them.
53:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they must be so proud.
53:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Your mom and dad in the siblings, no, or is it like Vietnamese?
53:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I ask this because in our culture, we don't show the affection we have for somebody who's successful in our family, especially the youngest dude in the family.
54:01
[SPEAKER_00]: My siblings, like, they understand what everything I've done means because they know who are the artists of her and stuff because they were born and raised in Canada, but my parents, like, not so much like, I still don't know if they understand what I fully do.
54:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, as a job, like, I tell them, like, I just make music, but like, I don't think they know what that means, and like, I show them along, like, platinum records before, like, my plaques.
54:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And she didn't understand what that meant, either.
54:28
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't understand what that is, because they just saw traditional in that sense, and even my mom texted me one day, random, and he was like, oh, do you know who Drake is?
54:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did a song with that guy one time, like, yeah, for sure.
54:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, a lot of my cousins and stuff and like Australia, like they'll tell, like my mom, like, oh, like, your son is so famous, like, he's this dad.
54:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, she knows I'm successful through them,
54:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think she actually understands what I do for real.
55:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't imagine her even understanding.
55:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a friend, he's a chef and he cook for like everybody, like, you know, John, do a leave for like all the, you know, Kardashians and ASAP Rocky and Rihanna.
55:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But that means nothing.
55:17
[SPEAKER_01]: that you cook for like gauky uing, which is like the MC of Persever Night, you know, made it, you know, then you're like, oh, shit, my son made it in the world, but there are like people that are way bigger than people in our Vietnamese environment, but, you know, they just don't understand the implications.
55:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like not at all, like tax, cool number one record cool, but I told him, I'm doing this TV show in Vietnam, she's like, oh, for real, like that, that's crazy, like it's going to be, that's going to be good.
55:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like,
55:47
[SPEAKER_01]: What are your future plans?
55:50
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you see the next few years of your life?
55:53
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you, what are you trying to accomplish?
55:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, the next few years of my life, I plan on being in Vietnam a lot.
56:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to create a career over there to be honest with you.
56:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to develop the next wave of Vietnamese music, bro.
56:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to necessarily take over, but I want to be a part of that journey
56:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And through the right way and the proper way, you know, that is music to my ears.
56:24
[SPEAKER_01]: No pun intended, but literally like music to my ears.
56:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, would you say, do it the right way?
56:30
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean by that?
56:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why would you say that?
56:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But obviously there's like, there's people that go into new countries like, and especially we haven't confidence thinking, hey, oh, I'm a big producer, I'm a big American producer, oh, I'm here now, like, yo, I'm the shit, like, you guys need to listen to me.
56:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have how things work over, like, this is how the music industry works.
56:53
[SPEAKER_00]: We gotta do it like this better.
56:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's necessarily the right way to approach things.
56:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you got to do it
57:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And respect their process bro, like, yeah, you know what, I got big records in America, whatever, but that's America, they could care that's what I did in America and Vietnam, like that's a whole different game now.
57:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, I'm approaching it, like, I haven't done anything.
57:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got a build my name up in Vietnam and take it from there.
57:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like I'm expecting everyone to roll at the red carpet from me when I touch down, like not at all.
57:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Francis, you are absolutely a future gem to the music industry worldwide and especially I can't wait to see what you do in Vietnam in the upcoming years and I
57:43
[SPEAKER_01]: would love to extend my invitation for you to come back on the podcast at any time.
57:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're ever in LA, obviously hit me up, love to meet you in person.
57:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you me and Jay, we'll go get some food.
58:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know I appreciate that pro question though.
58:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, LA bro.
58:05
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I was an LA.
58:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I used to go to LA a lot, bro.
58:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there are no Vietnamese food spots in LA.
58:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do I always got to drive down to always see bro?
58:15
[SPEAKER_01]: because it's not a whole lot of people living in L.A. Not a lot of Vietnamese people who are, you know, it's expensive, you know, a storefront, a restaurant is expensive, very difficult to find, you know, cheap labor here.
58:32
[SPEAKER_01]: The economics doesn't work out and then people still don't understand if you charge for
58:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's people would be like, well, why would I pay $25 for Bolfah?
58:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would I go down to O.C.
58:47
[SPEAKER_01]: and I pay $17 or $15?
58:50
[SPEAKER_01]: $12 for Bolfah?
58:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so there's that whole economics going on and anybody who's living in L.A. like a Vietnamese person.
59:00
[SPEAKER_01]: they're either in tech or they're in entertainment, they're in these businesses that pay a lot of money, you know, and so it's hard for the economics of a restaurant owner to really, and there are a few people, but you know,
59:16
[SPEAKER_01]: struggle struggle struggle.
59:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no that makes sense.
59:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Like every time I've had like a bowl of fun in like the LA area, man, it's been disappointing.
59:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm sorry.
59:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's possible, but I'm like, damn, I know like an hour down south.
59:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so fire.
59:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And so true, but see you got awesome realize like there's there's a half a million people living down in Orange County an hour away and you and you got this like heavy competition You know people are just like competing so hard for your dollar that you're gonna get the best of the best, you know
59:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of kids now that are coming in international kids from Vietnam, that labor force from Vietnam comes in and they're just, they live in Vietnam and I mean, they live in Orange County and they, you'll just get the best of the best coming out of Orange County and that's something that we, we really have to deal with and live.
1:00:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that happens in San Francisco in San Jose as well.
1:00:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's the same dynamics, you know, 45 hour away and you know, you got just superior food
1:00:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And now we're away from from the big city Absolutely, okay, not a lot of that is starting to make sense though I'm like I wish there has some fire food in LA man.
1:00:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll let my go.
1:00:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I miss it.
1:00:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I know but you could go to the alternative which is 20 minutes outside of LA Which is a six to six, but that's more like Chinese Vietnamese so you get like fire Chinese food.
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean
1:00:46
[SPEAKER_01]: arguably Chinese food in the 626 isn't the best in the United States.
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I would probably argue that.
1:00:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Chinese food.
1:00:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Chinese food in the 626 is probably I can't imagine another.
1:01:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I would go toe to toe with anybody to argue that Chinese food in the 626.
1:01:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically like Vietnamese food in
1:01:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even on a bigger scale because the Chinese community's been there longer than the Vietnamese community and then like the influx of just all kinds of Chinese people living in that area with money and then Chinese people from China coming in to live in the rural and heights in Gabriel, Diamond Bar, Chino walnut, all these areas like
1:01:34
[SPEAKER_01]: produced the the most amazing and I'm learning it in the last year because I work for a Chinese company and they all we always go to lunch.
1:01:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I met Jay.
1:01:45
[SPEAKER_01]: We Jay and I are blown away.
1:01:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We were like, whoa, this Chinese food here is incredible.
1:01:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have to turn my entire life not knowing that.
1:01:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I might have to check that out next time I touched him.
1:01:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let me know when you come come in next time and I'd love to hang out with you and Jay and you know, we'll go
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be saying that's probably something like that too.
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you met Mike then?
1:02:08
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I haven't met him, but like we follow each other though.
1:02:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So I definitely know who he is.
1:02:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that'd be cool.
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he should meet you and get to know each other because he's doing stuff in Vietnam now.
1:02:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he's brought Billboard and vice, you know, back and forth from Vietnam to LA.
1:02:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's doing a lot.
1:02:25
[SPEAKER_01]: He's doing a lot.
1:02:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I remember seeing him launch.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was like, wow, that's like a big deal for Vietnam because he didn't have, didn't ever had that before.
1:02:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like charts, like they don't have charts.
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have like RIA certified, like plaques and stuff, too.
1:02:41
[SPEAKER_01]: There is always a lot of things to talk about with music and Vietnamese culture so I look forward to the next time that we get back on and if you have like an album release or anything that you do that just even just to come back and treat the shit because there's much more to even if you like, found a
1:03:02
[SPEAKER_01]: woman in Vietnam and you're dating somebody now I want to hear that experience.
1:03:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We can just spend a whole hour on that experience that you have in Vietnam.
1:03:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:03:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Now for sure.
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Next time we do this.
1:03:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully I could tell you, like I got some hits over there, you know?
1:03:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:03:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully that's the story next time.
1:03:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:03:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm here for it.
1:03:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for once again, Francis.
1:03:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, thank you again for having me on this platform.
1:03:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, it's been an honor.
1:03:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been my pleasure.
1:03:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Same here.
1:03:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Likewise, it feels the same way.
1:03:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again.
1:03:29
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not a problem.
1:03:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to The Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
1:03:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Catherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Tran.
1:03:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at The Vietnamese Podcast.