Latest / Twin Mom Life / Allowing Yourself to Grieve Parts of Twin Motherhood While Finding Joy in Others
Transcript
- Jessielee Sittig: Hello and welcome to the Twin Mom Life podcast. I'm your host, Jess. I created this podcast to help build community, connection, and most importantly, friendships among moms of multiples. Being a twin mom can be amazing and magical. That twin bond is unlike anything I've ever witnessed, but it can also be isolating and overwhelming. I'll be chatting with other twin moms, diving deep into the twin experience. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy twin mom life to listen along. I hope this podcast shed some light on a topic that's been on your heart and gave you more confidence as a twin mama. If you know a twin mom, please send this her way. If you like what you heard today, please subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. Check out the show notes to be connected with today's guest and get discount codes for brands I love. See you next Thursday. Until then. welcome to the podcast. Today we have Katie. How are you? ⁓ giving advice on what works for us so you don't have to learn the hard way. Juggling two babies at the same time is challenging, but I'm confident we can learn from each other and figure out how to raise these babies together. You are made for this. Katie Koehler: Hi, I'm really good, thank you, I'm so happy to be here. Jessielee Sittig: Yes, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Katie Koehler: Yeah, so sure. So I am Katie Koehler. I am a twin mom first and foremost. I probably wouldn't have said mom first before three years ago. a full-time working mom, so I work in the tech industry. I have been ⁓ with federal government, and I've in that industry for 20-ish years now, which is wild say. And I had my twin girls three years ago. ⁓ or almost three years ago, they'll be through this summer. And my life has like radically changed in terms of my perspective to everything ⁓ since them. But yeah, I'm a full-time working mom ⁓ and ⁓ also a twin mom marketplace. I'm wearing my twin mom cropped hoodie, which is for all things breastfeeding, pumping, like all that stuff. And just for like the spring and fall days when it's like not too, not too cold, but just a little bit. So I started a Twin Mom Marketplace for twin merchandise and fun things like that, things that I wanted and didn't see out there in my spare time on top of working and caring for ⁓ newer and twin daughters. ⁓ And ⁓ I'm launching a mobile app soon called My Littles Hub. So I'm really excited about that. And I'm 40. So that's also like ⁓ ⁓ 40 year old mom of twin toddlers. Yeah, that's me in a nutshell. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ I love all of that. And I can't wait to dive into like the app and Twin Mama Marketplace and all that stuff. I am also 40. I'm in my late ⁓ and I am older than all of my friends. our kids are the same age. My boys will be three this summer also. So I feel yeah, I am like ⁓ the older mama my mom friends who also have toddlers. So same girl. Okay, before we really dive into it, can you tell me what you did today to fill your own cup? Katie Koehler: Yeah. Yeah, so I started something probably in the last week where I spend five minutes and I set a timer for five minutes. It's really only five minutes, I set a timer every day. And after I put the girls to bed or after like my husband and I put the girls or I put the girls to bed, I take five minutes of just like by myself, not listening to anything, ⁓ no no noise. and I just like sit in quiet, which is like so rare in the day to just have quiet. And so like alone from away from everybody, right? Like my husband's like, can I sit with you? And I'm like, no, ⁓ ⁓ just want five minutes. And so I've been sending, ⁓ been trying that in the last week of just like that time to just hear my own thoughts ⁓ ⁓ fill my own cup from that perspective. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Not yet. Hmm. Katie Koehler: I find that even just doing that for the last week, feel definitely a little more centered and I can handle each day. And even though it's like at the end of the day, I can still, yeah, like go into the next day and kind of just through it with a much more calmness that I think I've had recently. So that's something I just started doing and it seems to be working. Jessielee Sittig: I love that. feel like I never understood the importance of silence until I became a mom. Like, I feel like that isn't something that I probably would have appreciated, like pre-mom life. And now I'm like, oh yeah, I think that is such a wise thing to do. And I'm so glad you're setting a timer because I feel like when you're sitting there in silence, you could be like, there for a minute and be like, okay, I'm fine. So five minutes is like, you know, like a decent time. Katie Koehler: ⁓ yeah. Or. Yeah, or I could fall asleep. I said it for multiple reasons. I'm like, not time to go to sleep yet. Like I actually have to do other things. ⁓ So yeah, and sometimes I do extend it. Sometimes I listen to like a five minute meditation afterwards or ⁓ I like read two pages of a book. yeah, it's it's a very, I'm just giving myself that time, which like, Jessielee Sittig: So true. ⁓ Yes. Yes. Katie Koehler: When you think about it, you can do five minutes in your day. And so I am trying to commit to that and do five minutes in the day. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah. I love that it's realistic. And I feel like one thing that I've really learned in asking this question and just like trying to fill my own cup is it does not need to be this like extravagant thing. It can be something so little. And five minutes is a small part of your day, but it's totally attainable. Like you can do that every day. You know? ⁓ Katie Koehler: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly why I started doing it. So yeah, so I only didn't do like two days and one was because I went to like party in DC. It was purely a dance for moms. And it was all ages, all like... Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Fun! love it, that's so cool. Katie Koehler: I've never been to a club and a dance party where someone got on stage and said, like, who here has a newborn? And a bunch of women were like, me! Like, ah! And then they were like, who here has three months to a year? And I was like, yeah! And then was like, everybody's screaming. I was like, I think everyone has lots of kids here. think multiple ages. Jessielee Sittig: Did they do a twin mom thing? You're like, who's a twin mom? Yeah. Katie Koehler: That would have been so perfect. That would have been so great. But no, they did not do that. Because was like, yeah, everyone's yelling here for multiple ages, right? It was, yeah, was amazing. Like, I've never been ⁓ a space like that. And it was awesome and cool to see moms out. I think everyone was done by like 10, right? 10 was like everything was kind of like was going downhill. And I was like, ⁓ this great. I can be home by 11. ⁓ So did not get my f- Jessielee Sittig: Perfect. Mm That is so fun. Katie Koehler: I did not get my five minutes that day. Instead, I went to a dance party, which I have not been to in years. Years. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, I couldn't tell you the last time that I did something like that. That's so fun. And I love that it was like a space for moms. That's really cool. Katie Koehler: Yeah, it was pretty awesome. Jessielee Sittig: Okay, I'm trying to think for me, I was saying earlier offline that I am in a period where I don't have childcare for my sons and will not have childcare until September. And even then it'll be minimal. So I am trying to figure out like, that's probably a big topic of this podcast is like, how do you balance all of the things? And I feel like one thing that's like really slipping right now is any kind of physical activity. It just it ain't happening over here. Katie Koehler: Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: So one thing I did today and it was so, it felt so good. So our whole cul-de-sac, if I walk the whole thing, it's one mile. So I did it with my boys in their wagon and there's a little bit of a hill, I might tell you. And I did it twice. So I did two miles with them and it felt so good to like be outside, move my body. They were happy. I mean, they were mad about the second lap. They were like, hold on lady, we don't normally do this twice. And like, I need to move my body. So. that filled my cup just because I feel like I have been, yeah, like lacking in the physical activity. I'm like that, and that's normally what makes your brain feel better. So I'm glad I got to do that today. Katie Koehler: Yeah. ⁓ my God, that's amazing. Like you're a rock star for doing that. Like I walked so much in the first year with the girls, like in a double stroller and pushing and we have hills and like it was, I just did it to get outside and like, cause right when they're newborns and like less than six months, you're just like, I gotta get outside. But then since they turned a year, like somehow, and I went back to work. That's what it was. It was actually like five months. Like ⁓ I went back to work, it got really hard to do the like. walks every day and yeah it's like incredibly hard so like you're a rock star get out there do it that's awesome. Jessielee Sittig: Well, I will tell you they will not do it in a stroller anymore. Like absolutely not. So having like an open wagon where they can kind of like move around, they're like playing trucks, we load it up. I'm like, we got sticker books, we got trucks, we got snacks. ⁓ the wagon really helps at this age because you know, our twins the same Katie Koehler: Yeah. we don't, haven't gone to a wagon yet and we still have like the, the mini city mini jogger, you know, double stroller and like we hadn't been using a while because we walk with them. Like they, you know, now that they can walk, it's like, we just go on a walk and we make them use their little legs, and to tire them out. And now like when they see the double stroller, they're like stroller walk. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: I wanna be in the stroller walk. And so they like, they want to get in the stroller and we have to like hide it so they like they walk and they use their little legs. Jessielee Sittig: I love that though, like that is a mom hack. When your kids get excited to see the stroller, you're like, yeah, hop in. I will tell you, so I have three, have my daughter's six and then my boys are almost three. And we've been trying to do things like that around our block. Okay, like let's go for a bike ride. The boys can't ride bikes, but they're scooters or whatever. It is so chaotic. I mean, the whole street can see us coming. Katie Koehler: Yes, yeah. Jessielee Sittig: It is a sight to be seen, but it's fun and it's such a good way to get everyone like out and about. So love that too. Katie Koehler: Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: so we also connected ⁓ on another level of having blood clotting issues. And I was shocked. think I posted something about being on Lovenox. And you were like, me too. And I was like, what? That's not super common. And I know we had similar, like where we had losses. And so can you tell us a little bit about ⁓ that part of your story? Katie Koehler: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, of course. So we got married in 2021 because we were originally going to get married in 2020. But then we all know what happened with like COVID pandemic. fun fact, when I met my husband, we met on Hinge. So I did not know him, right? Like we met on a dating app, Hinge, which is like the best app ever. Jessielee Sittig: I'll take it. Katie Koehler: And I met him and saw him and I was like, yeah, this is my husband like it like like ⁓ you like I saw him and I was like, yes, and then we sat down for probably Ten minutes and and there was a voice that was like yes. There you are Like I've been looking for you. Like this is he did not have that same He did not have that same reaction ⁓ He was just like, okay, cool. You're cool. ⁓ I was like third date by the third date. Do you feel that? ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Love it Versailles. Hmm. Katie Koehler: yeah, so I knew right away and I wanted to like get married. Like I had, I had been dating in DC for a decade and like, just was, when I found him, I was like, he's my husband. Like, this is who I've been waiting for. And I was ready to get married and, just like have kids and do the whole thing. So we had been dating for two years, we got engaged and we were going to get married. right away and like within a year and then COVID hit and we had to move our wedding and it delayed us by like a year and which I love our new date much better than the first one so that's great but we got married in 2021 and there's always silver linings and we got married in in 2021 and like there was like a two-week break of COVID that like before like vaccines and before it like hit again and so that everyone was together and it was one of the first like Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Yeah, true. Katie Koehler: big family and friend things in years, right? And it was amazing. And so we started trying for kids like right away. ⁓ within ⁓ five months, I got pregnant ⁓ and was like, awesome, very cool, but then lost it quickly, right? Like very quickly. ⁓ And was like, okay, like that's, it really hurts. Like you're like, okay, like I'm broken. Like, I don't like it. Like all those thoughts flood you. and then like the next month I got pregnant again and I was like okay do over like yes okay this is great like my body's just getting used to it like great and I lost it again and I was like broke it like I was broken like that like it just breaks you like it doesn't matter when it happens it just breaks you you feel like you aren't it's never gonna happen Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: you feel like time is a very weird thing, right? Like, cause you have to, like, then you have to wait and timing and when it can happen again. And, and it really does break you when it happens. And my friends were trying so hard. They're like, it's going to be okay, right? It's going to like, it's going to be okay. It'll all work out. And you're just like, no, it won't. Like you feel devastated. And, and so fast, you know, fast forward a few months and, and like I ended up getting COVID. And so then Like that's like where you're sick for like, you know, a while and that has impacts on your fertility. And so like, then we have to wait. And so about six months after the last, I had two chemical pregnancies. That's what they were. ⁓ about six months after the last chemical pregnancy, ⁓ I wasn't getting pregnant again, we went to fertility and I said, Hey, I really want to, ⁓ really don't want to do like invasive fertility stuff. I just want to understand if there's something wrong. Like, I just want to understand what's going on. And so. ⁓ ⁓ I fought for a recurrent miscarriage panel because I said, you know a negative pregnancy test and you know a positive one, and so can you please just run a recurrent miscarriage panel? And the doctor, a male doctor, said, well, the jury's kind of out on if chemical pregnancies are pregnancies. And I was just like, they are pregnancies. Again, if you've looked at a negative and a positive, you know very clearly. And it feels different when you miscarry. And I said, no, ⁓ they are pregnancies. And so I want you to run it. Like I'm the patient, I'm asking for this test, and I want you to run it. Like I don't want to have to go through another chemical or another miscarriage or anything. And I don't want to do that. So run the recurrent panel. And so he reluctantly said, And ⁓ they ran the panel. I get a call back within a week or something from the nurse and she said, hey, your blood results came back and you definitely should get in touch with your hematologist because you have antiphospholipid syndrome. And I was like, why do you think I have a hematologist? Why is that a thing you think I have? And didn't have any referrals for one, which I thought was bizarre. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: What? Katie Koehler: so I had to go to my doctors ⁓ find a hematologist and figure out what antiphospholipid syndrome was, which APS for short. ⁓ And I had to wait three months. ⁓ So couldn't do a lot in that time period because ⁓ they ⁓ to an official reading. So I ⁓ wait months, go to the hematologist, which scares you because it's like cancer and oncology. Like that's like a lot of it. So you start to get really freaked out in your own head ⁓ and Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: ⁓ And then they say, yep, you definitely have the marker. Like you have antiphospholipid syndrome, that your blood work confirms it yet again three months later. That's kind of, need those readings. And they said it's a ⁓ rare blood clotting disorder that impacts you in two different ways. One, you either have blood clots and you've never had blood clots in your entire life. And I was on the birth control pill. I was on all sorts of stuff, but like, if I had this, like probably shouldn't have been on. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ my gosh. Sure. Katie Koehler: And so my teens and early twenties, and so ⁓ they you would have had blood clots. I said, nope. And they said, or you will have recurrent miscarriages. ⁓ And it can ⁓ first second trimester, or you go into preterm labor in your third trimester. ⁓ And ding, ding, ⁓ because the genetic ⁓ that I a two month preemie baby. And my grandmother out of her seven kids had two preemie babies. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ wow. Katie Koehler: And so definitely there's something in our that leads to this, which I'm now happy I know about so I can tell my two daughters about it and they can be well informed and we can watch for it, right? Because it is scary that the other part of this is it can be blood clots. So the hematologist said, yeah, when you get pregnant, we just want to make sure that you take these shots, these blood thinning shots. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: And ⁓ I was like, okay, but like, kind of hard because I have chemical pregnancies. So I get pregnant and like, you know, how quickly can I take them? And they were like, ⁓ just take them immediately. so then, yeah. So then ⁓ ⁓ doing the fertility treatment, ⁓ They were giving me a little bit ⁓ it's Clomid, but the other one, like Letrazole, think. ⁓ And which you... Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Okay. Katie Koehler: hyperobulate a little bit, but I was like, hey, the chances of getting pregnant, right, are like very small. And so this is just like, I missed a few months in the year possible to get pregnant. So there's just offering us more chances. And we ended up doing IUI and they were like, you have three eggs that, know, with three follicles. And I was like, okay, well like just one, you know, I'm good. Like just one sticky baby, that's all I want. And sure enough, like, We did the IUI and it was around my birthday. I turning 37 ⁓ and all I wanted for birthday was a baby. I was like, that's all I want. I need nothing else in this world at all. And so I just told the universe, I just want a baby. I just want a sticky baby. That's it. ⁓ And ⁓ my birthday would been first possible earliest day to test if I was pregnant. ⁓ And I tested at night. Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Katie Koehler: which also like you're not supposed to do, you're supposed to test in the morning, all that stuff. I tested at night and it was positive and I was like, ah! Like I was so excited. And then I immediately texted my doctors and said, I wanna get my blood drawn tomorrow to like get the HCG levels. And I immediately like, I waited till I got the HCG level the next day, which was 45, which I said, yes, good, real. Jessielee Sittig: Yay! Katie Koehler: everything and then I started taking the ⁓ the lovenox shots immediately like day 11 of pregnancy right like I was like done and ⁓ I those lovenox shots through I think till about like eight weeks after delivery too and I was doing two a day ⁓ starting like the second trimester so that is like my story of finding out I have an APS. There's ⁓ other stuff that my doctors want me to look into about like future, because it does have like other impacts on you. But knew something, was like, it's like the story of ⁓ knowing body ⁓ and because I knew something wasn't working. ⁓ And wasn't just like, ⁓ it's just, know, like, ⁓ just go with it. And I fought for that blood test. And had I not fought for that, if I listened to the doctor who said like, ⁓ we don't know if chemicals are real. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: right, which they are, like I would have never, I wouldn't have found out that I have APS. They might have like, I might've had to go down like the IVF route. I might've had to do like other, and I might've still lost babies because I, right, my body was like, no, like it needed blood thinners to help carry a full term pregnancy. And so I'm so glad I advocated for myself and learned about that. now, and then for a few, I think for like that first year especially, I was advocating a lot for women to look up recurrent miscarriage panels and just ask for it. What does it hurt? It's a blood test and it might show you something that can really help you carry to full term. Jessielee Sittig: Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like our stories are so, so similar. You know, I also had two early losses and I hate the term chemical pregnancy. It is essentially an early miscarriage that wasn't shown in a doctor's office. Like, you had an early miscarriage. the I hated that label. Both of my losses were early as well. But I Katie Koehler: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Jessielee Sittig: had gotten blood tests both times. So they were able to like quote unquote prove that I was pregnant. like, so I technically had like if you're looking at the like definition, it's just an early miscarriage. So I heard a lot about that terminology and was like, I don't like that. Like it's you had you had two miscarriages. That's, you know, and to have a doctor like argue with you is awful. Katie Koehler: Yes, because you- yes. Because you know, like you just know, you know the difference. Like when you see those lines in a pregnancy test. And so what I did when I found out was pregnant on my birthday, which I was like, yes, right? The first thing I did was like text my doctor to get a blood test. Cause I wanted to prove like, yes, I'm pregnant just in case I lost it again. right. And like, that's crazy, right? Like that you have to like, like your brain goes there. So like, I have to prove it. Jessielee Sittig: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: No, I am. I know this is happening to my body. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: Well, that's crazy that you had to do two shots a day. So I just had to do one my whole pregnancy and then I think, yeah, I think it was six weeks postpartum. So. Katie Koehler: Yeah, they didn't know. So I switched OBs around 28 because ⁓ OB didn't really, like they weren't really comfortable and didn't really know about APS and they didn't know, they didn't have data on twins and they didn't like, and so I found an OB hematologist who like specialized in this stuff. Yes, I was like, hi, who are you? You're amazing. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ cool. Yeah. Katie Koehler: And when I met her and when I officially switched, because I met her like probably around 22 weeks and she was really like, yeah, like you should be doing two shots a day and we want to make sure like, you know, just to make sure everything's good. And because I tracked everything so early and because I tested so early, because I knew that they were miscarriages, they were like, you are one of the ones because it can affect women in their first, second and third trimester. we now know, like you are evidence that this affects women in their earliest of the first trimester. And so like they're like, thanks for taking all those detailed notes, like, and sharing that with us so that we can now like record it. And I was like, ⁓ great. So that's how much this isn't recorded. Okay, nice. Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, there's not enough research. I feel like even when I saw my hematologist, and I did not, like, I've never even heard of that combination of having an OB and hematologist and one doctor. Like, how amazing. And so needed. so I have factor five Leiden, which is a genetic blood clotting disorder, and I have just one strain of it. Like, you can get one strain from each parent, and then it's like really bad. Katie Koehler: Amazing. Okay. Jessielee Sittig: I just have one, which is still bad. Like I had a blood clot when I was in my early twenties and two miscarriages. So it's obviously impacted my life. ⁓ I had to fight my to give me lovenox because he was like, I'm just not quite sure if it's going to help anything. And I'm like, well, it's definitely not going to hurt anything. Like ⁓ it's not like I'm asking for a narcotic. This is a blood thinner. Like Katie Koehler: Right? Yes. Jessielee Sittig: you know what I mean? I'm like the worst case scenario if I get into a car accident, then we'll cross that bridge if that happened. But I was felt like dumbfounded in the office that like, he was like, well, you only have one of the genes. I'm like, I have had so much evidence of my life that this is affecting me. And he so of course, I got the lovenox, everything worked out. Thank you. But it was a little bit Katie Koehler: Right, right, right. Jessielee Sittig: of a push. Luckily, I didn't have to push my doctor because I have heard of other women having to have three miscarriages before they'll do a blood panel. I don't get it. It's a simple blood test. Like one miscarriage is enough to miscarriages is awful. You know, so I love that you advocated for yourself. Katie Koehler: I want to say like, ⁓ yeah, I also want to be like, if anyone's going to fertility, that should just be like without miscarriages, just do it. It should be, I also don't know why we're not just running that for women in general. Like why did it take me until I had two miscarriages, until I was trying to have kids to find out that I have this genetic disorder that leads to blood clots? Like. Jessielee Sittig: Yes, yeah. to find out. ⁓ Katie Koehler: why, right? Why did I, why did it only happen then and it should have been part of my health care? Much earlier. So I'm a proponent of like, it shouldn't take going to fertility, it shouldn't take having to have miscarriages. We need to have this blood work and these panels much earlier in our lives because it has such profound impacts throughout our lives and could cause, and if I knew about this, that could have been something I was prepared for before even trying to have kids. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: and have less, like, hopefully not had to have those experiences. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, I couldn't agree more about that because when I had like a mini stroke when I was 21, I was on the birth control pill. They're like, this is a freak thing. And I didn't have, guess, like the knowledge or yeah, the knowledge to like push a little bit harder at that point in my life. I was so young that I was kind of like, OK, well, that was crazy. But the diagnosis could have been just through a simple blood test. So, yeah, it sucks that I had to go on. Katie Koehler: Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: to have two miscarriages. And the only silver lining is, you know, I know now to prepare my kids and to get them tested and things like that so that we can be prepared. Because same thing, like I never want my kids to experience what I had to go through, especially when it can be prevented. Katie Koehler: ⁓ exactly. Yeah, yeah. I will also say that when I saw the ultrasound, because, right, so we got to see them at six weeks, and ⁓ when I saw the ultrasound and I saw two babies there, I immediately knew, like, it was the two that originally came. Like, for me, it was like, they're here. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: they want one they wanted to come together. They were trying to come back to back, right? And like, like literally, they were trying to come. And then I saw them on the screen and I was just so content of like, yeah, there you are. You're back. ⁓ like, okay, great. Right. And my husband looked over at him. He's still wearing a mask because it was like still COVID rules and his eyes were were bulged out of his head. Like, I didn't I didn't know that was possible. I was like, Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Katie Koehler: Well, was definitely possible. I was hyper ovulating. Like it was possible, but he like it was, but it was like the chances of it were so, so, so, so slim. And we just, I just wanted like a sticky baby. And, ⁓ but that, that was the thought. Like when I saw the ultrasound and I saw those two, I was like, there you are, like you're back. Like, and I've learned so much. I now know this. I can now like, you know, help you on this journey later in your life. But like, like there you are and you're back. And, ⁓ and was just so like, it was so content and peaceful and happy I saw them. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: I felt that way too. felt like, yeah, a nudge to the babies I had lost and it felt really like a full circle moment. So yeah, I had like that special, that special feeling also. So can you tell us more about like your pregnancy and the delivery, the birth of your babies? Katie Koehler: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, sure. So I had a great, like I will say I had a great pregnancy. I'm one of the women that like loved being pregnant. I don't know, it really just like agreed with me. That or I was just so, so happy, right? I was just so happy pregnant, so happy to have the girls. I definitely was still anxious and right, and had anxiety, right? I looked up miscarriage rates every single week, maybe day, I don't know. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Katie Koehler: I was just still like so happy I felt good. I was like I was able to move. I got a belly band, right? Like I supported the weight of, right? Because I was pretty like, I don't know, I feel like when you're pregnant with twins, you're like full term at like five months. So I did the belly band, I did all this stuff and I had a great my... Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: husband's cousin, she was pregnant at our wedding and she was like nine months pregnant and she was dancing and like having a great time. I'm like, wow, how are you doing this? Like, how are you like dancing? And she was like, Katie, every, she was like, there's, there's always every month or like every week, there's going to be something, there's going to be something that hits like whether it's like, you know, your body aches or you have a craving or you have something. She goes, you look it up, you understand why it's happening and then you can adjust it and then you feel great. And I was like, that's amazing. I love that. And so I always had her voice in my head, like when something was like, ⁓ like I have a craving, what's that craving related to? Like, why am I having that? Like, do I need more iron? Okay, like I should get more iron. Like my body is aching a little bit. Like my belt, should do like a belly band, right? I should like take the weight off. was having an issue with like my right foot and leg was like hurting and my acupuncture. So I went to acupuncture too. That's a part of the story. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: you Katie Koehler: My acupuncturist suggested this chiropractor who was certified in the Webster technique and they like, so I don't know about you, but when you're pregnant, practitioners don't want to touch your belly. They don't want to move you or your muscles or even massage. no, don't touch the belly. The chiropractor that I went to and I still see, she comes to the house now, I love it. She switched practices. She started home practice right when I gave birth to the girls. But ⁓ would like ⁓ my baby B was on my right side and my baby A was on my left side and my baby B would always want to roll over to be on top of baby A. And so if you can imagine, my entire body was like to the left side. Like I just, I just leaned to the left side. And so every week she would adjust me and adjust the baby's back and she would like move baby B over. ⁓ and she would realign my hips and she would realign everything and I would walk out there being like, I can walk and this is great and nothing hurts. And so I recommend like a Webster certified chiropractor to everyone. And like she wasn't cracking my back, you know, like it wasn't that type of chiropractor. was like, it was like realignment and helping to make sure my hips were level and my shoulders and the belly and the babies So she kept me super, super healthy and like in alignment during the pregnancy. My acupuncturist I saw probably every two weeks, she was just helping with like blood flow and ⁓ all the good stuff. She was also helping me during ⁓ journey to becoming pregnant. And I was actually the ⁓ fourth I think, to get pregnant with twins like that year. And she was like, I'm not trying to get you pregnant with twins. I'm not like. ⁓ But was, yeah. And then. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ my gosh. Katie Koehler: Our community of twin parents here, like we give stuff to each other and one woman came and she was like, oh, do you see her too? And I was like, yeah, we both go to the same acupuncturist. And she was like the one to get pregnant with twins after me. So it's kind of funny how that all connects. And so I had my acupuncturist, my chiropractor, and then I have a dietary restriction. So I can't do gluten. I can't do dairy. I have some like FODMAP stuff I can't do. And so I, but I was really like, I want to make sure that I'm giving all the nutrition and all the good stuff. to my babies, right? I wanna make sure like, how can I set them up for the best, best possible chances of everything? Cause I don't want them to have all my dietary issues. And so I got a nutritionist that helped me, a virtual nutritionist who helped me with like all of my pregnancy, nutrition and told me like I needed ⁓ 90 to a hundred grams of protein. And I was like, ⁓ a lot, like that's a lot of protein when you think about it. And then turns out, post pregnancy you need even more and I'll get into that later but I worked with like Aloha Nutrition for that which was amazing but I was like wait I was like I need more protein than when I was pregnant okay like this is not this is not funny like this is a lot ⁓ so yeah so I would like had my nutrition like locked in acupuncture chiropractor I went swimming it like a bunch because ⁓ pool opened in the summer and I like felt Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, love that. Katie Koehler: I felt really good. Like I felt so phenomenal. I wanted to have a vaginal delivery. That was my goal. But the ⁓ baby A was was breach ⁓ ⁓ baby B was transverse. ⁓ I was going to ⁓ Hospital in DC because that's where my hematologist OB was. ⁓ ⁓ they had a doctor there and OB who specialized in doing the external cephalic rotation. ⁓ So the ECVs and he said, hey, I am doing a study on doing ECVs with twins. I could try and turn your baby A to go heads down so you could try ⁓ birth. And because ⁓ would not let you go into naturally or do you like a ⁓ birth if baby A ⁓ was breach. ⁓ they knew I really wanted to try for a vaginal ⁓ And so yeah, so I did, I was the 10th woman for him to work on as part of his study. I've still never read the study, so I, but I need to look at, look for it. Because I was like, ⁓ look, like babies are already in a study. They're not even born yet. And yeah, so did the ECV, which ⁓ he said, doing ECVs on twins is easier than singletons in his mind. Which like, Jessielee Sittig: Wow. Katie Koehler: I was like, sure, I'm sure it's the circumstances, right? Like I had, you know, they were di-di. ⁓ right, so two sacks, two placentas. ⁓ yeah, I was in there for about, it took about an hour and a half. ⁓ And I can describe it for somebody, it is like a big ⁓ muscle cramp. Every they move a baby, it's like a big muscle cramp and the muscle cramp doesn't go away until they stop moving the baby. Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Katie Koehler: That's what it feels like, like what an ECB feels ⁓ they tried for the first 45 minutes and Baby B would not leave Baby A alone in terms of like, no, don't move her. ⁓ And so like, okay, we're gonna like go walk around, ⁓ like walk around and then come back. In the second 45 minutes, they were able to move Baby A and get her heads down. And then they wrapped my belly really tight. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ my gosh. Katie Koehler: So that like they wouldn't move. I'm like, they're not going anywhere. I was like 35 weeks pregnant So I'm like, they're not they're not moving any like anywhere. They're not flipping and and so wrap my belly Oh, and they were you know, there's always the thing like oh you might go into labor the chances of like going into labor from an ECB are like point zero zero zero point, know something and Yeah, it's like not it. They always tell you those things because they have like you have they have to and sure. It's a risk Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ wow, okay. So low. Sure. Katie Koehler: but it was not nearly the risk that my brain had thought that something like that would be. So yeah, ⁓ ⁓ baby A ⁓ I could try for a natural vaginal. I hate the term natural, it's like, right? Cause they're all natural births. ⁓ So vaginal. Jessielee Sittig: always specify I'm like vaginal or unmedicated even though I think some people are like taken aback when I say vaginal like that. Well, that's how they would they come out. I don't like the term natural either. Katie Koehler: Yes. Yes, yeah, like exactly, right? Like it's like, no, it's all natural. ⁓ So yeah, so I was cleared to try for vaginal. ⁓ I also, my company gives a month pre-partum off of work, so from the delivery date. yeah, so it's great. Listen, I really want them to move to giving ⁓ one year postpartum too. So we'll see if we can get that, but they don't do that yet. They do like 10 weeks. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm, I agree. That's so cool. Katie Koehler: It's like, okay, But they do give the one month pre. And so ⁓ took that. I basically ⁓ my doctors to ⁓ that I was going to deliver at 38 weeks. And ⁓ right, they was like, I was like, sure, induce me at 38 weeks. But I was like, we're going to go till whatever. ⁓ But I was able to give that to my company so that I could get off at 34 weeks, which like, you're pregnant with twins, like 34 weeks is like, big. you're you're full term at 37, like fully term at 37 weeks, right, with twins. So like I was there. So it was nice to, so that I had the time before delivering. And so I went in at 37 weeks and three days and just to normal, you know, maternal fetal medicine checkup because I was like an advanced maternal age, you know, woman. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. So uncomfortable. Katie Koehler: all that stuff. So I had regular checkups plus the APS and all that stuff. And so they said I had high blood pressure. Keep in mind, this is the end of July in DC. Like it's like 95 degrees outside and I was like, you know, 200 pounds. And so, and I'm not normally like I am normally in the 130. So I, know, like 200 pounds and 95 degree heat carrying two babies is a lot and puts a lot of strain on your body. And I watched my blood pressure. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: over the course of my pregnancy just slowly rise. So I just, I saw that happen. So they tested, they were like, you know, we want you to go to your OB and we want them to monitor you. And so I went to my OB after about four hours, ⁓ they they said your blood pressure is fine, but you know, it was high when you got here. So we really recommend your 37 weeks, three days, we recommend, you know, ⁓ we you because you did have a high blood pressure reading. They took a urine sample, but the urine sample machine was broken, so they never got that. And I was like, I don't have any symptoms. I don't have preeclampsia, I promise. But my husband was really scared. It's our first, like, it's just scary, right? Like you don't want anything to happen. And so I gave in and yes, right. And so like I gave in and I was like, sure, like induce. so, but I said the least invasive, right? ⁓ minimal. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Especially after losses. I have a question really quick. Was that not the plan originally? Because typically when you go into labor, they want you to be off-lovenox. So was the plan not to have you induced? Or what was the plan? Katie Koehler: Yeah, yeah. Wow. No, so my dad, so they were really, like GW is really, ⁓ really free about like, what does the birthing mom want to do? And like, you know, what do you want to do? And so they never, they always, we always said 38 weeks, we would talk about it. Like, it was like, we'll put that down as an induction day, and we'll talk about it. But they, but we never, they never talked about not being on Lovanox. I think they were like, they were like, as long as you're off of it for like 24 hours. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Katie Koehler: That was their thing, right? They're like, we don't need you to be off of it for like more than 24 hours. And so that like, was always fun. You know, they were like, can, if we're inducing you, we can control that. And so like, we can make sure there's 24 hours before like any, right? If we have to do a C-section or we have to do anything. Exactly, exactly. So yeah, so I go in at 37 and three and they start to induce me and I had not take it. So I just didn't take my second shot that day. Jessielee Sittig: before like a plan is made. Okay. Katie Koehler: So that kind of started the clock of like the 24 hours. did the cervadril, that didn't do anything. ⁓ Then they did Foley bulb and they left that in for 23 hours. ⁓ You're only supposed like really leave it in for 12. That like got me to two centimeters. My husband almost passed out himself when they put that in. And so was like, I'm the one giving birth here. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: So you weren't dilated at all at the beginning of labor. ⁓ Katie Koehler: I was not dilated at at 37 weeks and three days. They tried to induce me because of the high blood pressure. ⁓ So, cervidrial, Foley bulb, and then they went to Pitocin. The Pitocin, and I was miserable the whole time. You don't get to eat. You don't get to eat. I was eating so well. I was hydrating so well. I was doing all the things at home. And then in the hospital, was like nothing. And I was like, this is the last. Jessielee Sittig: sure. Katie Koehler: week of my pregnancy and like, and Yeah, so I like so I did all of those inductions ⁓ Miserable like pretty much all time like it just like doesn't your body doesn't do well with that the pitocin my contractions were non-stop It was just like it was like a dance party of like my you know, so just like boom boom boom boom like constant I was like, this is painful Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: And so, but the babies, like I wasn't dilating and the babies weren't moving. Like they were fine. Like they weren't budging in terms of like, they weren't distressed. They weren't anything. And so the doctor comes in after, this is after four days of maybe in the hospital. And my husband was like, do you think they'll let us go home? And I was like, I was like, now you want to go home? Like, but yes. And so yeah, this is four days in the hospital, there's your limit. And he, and so the three OBs come in, which I was like, Jessielee Sittig: Is this your limit? Katie Koehler: Great, love went through, but it's a teaching hospital, great. So the woman who admitted us goes, I have two options for you. She goes, you can go home. And I was like, yes, that one. I don't need hear anything else, we're going home. And she goes, well, do you wanna hear the second? And I was like, you can say it, what do you want? And she goes, we can break your waters. And I said, no, no. Like, what else do you need to know? These babies don't wanna be born right now. And I had, here's the thing that I also told my babies when they were in utero. I go, you can come. whenever you are fully baked. Like you can come whenever you want. I don't care what week that is, day that is, you come whenever you want as long as you're fully baked. Because I was born not fully baked, right? I was born where my lungs didn't work properly, where I like didn't breathe when I was born, right? So I told them, you come whenever you want as long as you're fully baked. And in my mind, that was like 38 weeks. I was like, they're gonna come at 38 weeks. So we're in the hospital, she says, we can break your waters. I said, hell no. Like you're not breaking the waters. And the OB who did the ECB on me, and I did the ECB without drugs. I did it without like an epidural, without anything. Like it was just, they moved, right? Like they just, it was nothing. Like no, no pain relief whatsoever. And he looked at me and said, Katie, you have been in this hospital for four days. We have put your body, those babies under, and those babies under an immense amount of stress. You're like not eating. You're like getting jello. and you were perfectly fine, your heart rate's good, your blood pressure's good, the babies are good, everything's good, go home and call us on Monday. And this was a Thursday. And I was like, my husband cleaned the hospital room in five minutes flat and was like, am I saying? We're going, yep, we're out. And so we came home, I had been on IVs, I was so like... Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: just like full of stuff. My mom made me a meal. My parents came over, right? Cause they were, they were watching our dog. Like it's a whole thing. And so they come over and make a meal and they were like, you just looked like, like wrecked. And I was like, yeah, like my whole pregnancy, felt so great. And then I look wrecked like the last week. And then Friday morning, I wake up at 4 a.m. and I have diarrhea and I'm like, God, like this is what being in a hospital does. But. Jessielee Sittig: starting. Katie Koehler: But I don't even think that, right? I don't even think that. like, ugh, this is just like how annoyed my body is right now. And I go back to sleep. I like go back to sleep. I'm like, yep, okay. And then I wake up an hour later, same thing. I go back to sleep. I wake up an hour later, same thing. I go back to sleep. I have no idea that I'm actually in labor at that point. That's how crazy the inductions are, that like actual labor. I was like, yeah, like I'm just gonna go back to sleep now. Like. So I had no idea and then around 7 a.m. I woke my husband up and I said like hey I think like we should go to hospital I'm just having like cramps that like won't go away and he was like, Yeah, like I don't know what that is. But sure like we were like clueless and and then ⁓ So he calls the hospital says we're on our way and by the time we got out the door I was like holding on to like the door frame, right? I was like, this is intense. I think I'm in labor Jessielee Sittig: Mmm. Katie Koehler: And so then we got back to the hospital and all the nurses were like cheering and so happy because they had like seen me all week and then they're like, but you're actually a labor on your own and we're so happy. They were like so happy and cheering. I like, this is awful. This sucks. Because I was just in so much pain. I think my body had gone through so much with the inductions that it was just like depleted and like it wasn't I wasn't as prepared as I wanted to be and Jessielee Sittig: Aww. Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: like as strong as I wanted to be right physically and And yeah, and so like I had I didn't want an epidural But I like gave into one which it was like that was fine and five but like it kind of immobilized me and That I wasn't walking and they just want to monitor the babies and I was just like I just want to move and like looking back and like yeah my Body I just wanted to move like I just wanted to move around the room ⁓ But they want to monitor you and all that stuff. And so when they gave me the epidural my water broke Jessielee Sittig: Sure. Katie Koehler: And so then that started a clock and I'm like, okay, now we gotta move. We didn't know which water it was, but it was baby A, it was her water broke. And so go through, like I dilated to about six centimeters and then it started to regress and I was getting swollen and baby A was kind of getting stuck. so at like, and they, at 10 PM they've been like, go to sleep. And I was like, okay. ⁓ And my was like, Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Katie Koehler: I don't think that's like a good indication of like, we're gonna get to vaginal delivery. Like he just, he sort of knew. And then they woke me up at 1 a.m. and they were like, hey, baby A, like her heart, like we didn't know it was girls yet, right? And they said, baby A's heartbeat isn't as variable as we want it. And so we want to take you to a C-section. And I was like, no. And I was like crying and it was just not what I wanted. And I was just depleted after a week of labor and like induction labor and real labor. And I was just like, Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, that's a lot. Katie Koehler: It's a lot. And so I was just like really devastated and crying. And the nurse was so great. And she was like next to me, cause they tried to, they had me on pitocin to like try. And so was on, I had been on pitocin, it just wasn't working. ⁓ ⁓ she looks at the doctor and she says like, hey, like how, you know, is it quick? Like, do we need to like get her back there soon? And the doctor goes, no, ⁓ but like 10 minutes. Like I need her in the OR and ready in 10 minutes. And the nurse was like, That is quick. I just started unplugging things. And I was like, okay. So I didn't really have a lot of time to process. My husband and didn't really get a chance to talk. But I was also really kind of ⁓ paranoid of like, ⁓ something happened, didn't want, I didn't want like my parents worrying about me. And so I told my husband not to call anybody. And so nobody knew we were having a c-section. Nobody knew anything. I just sort of was like, I just don't want people worrying. Like that's where my head was. Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Katie Koehler: and which afterwards they were like, ⁓ you really should have told us like that, like how a text would have been, would have been nice. And yeah, so they wheeled me back and I think my, what we think happened is that my stress level was so high because I was so anxious about it that I just sort of had a reaction. And so I started to not like have saliva in my mouth and I started to not be able to breathe. Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Katie Koehler: And I kept telling people like, can't breathe, I can't breathe. And they were like, no, you're breathing. It's fine. I was like, I'm telling you, I can't breathe. And my husband's trying to play music. And I was like, no, no. Like everything was just, you know, it wasn't like a calm environment, which I fully understand. Like there's great C-section stories and there's awesome stuff. like mine just wasn't like that. C-section stories that like weren't great, like it's Yeah. And it happened so fast. And I also didn't know. Jessielee Sittig: That happened so fast though. Katie Koehler: which I would have loved to have known. for everyone out there, you can ask your OBs to give you anti-anxiety medicine. That, like I would have taken in an instant in that situation and it hits you immediately. So then like you can just relax. And I didn't know that was even possible and it wasn't something anyone said. Yes, our doctor family. Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Mm-hmm. They should have offered, though. Katie Koehler: family members said that afterwards. Like, ⁓ we've seen C-sections. ⁓ you should definitely do anti-anxiety medicines. I was like, ⁓ okay. So that would have, didn't know that was an option. So for everyone out there, that is an option. Anti-anxiety meds, put it on your birth plan if you're having a C-section or if you might have a C-section that know that's an option. ⁓ It absolutely would have helped. And I think, so they think I was having kind of a panic attack anxiety while I was having the C-section. Jessielee Sittig: Didn't know that was an option. Katie Koehler: And so they, you know, they take baby A out and they say it's like, she's a girl. And it was like, yay. I'm like, get the other one out. Like, let's go. We gotta go. And my husband was like, he said when she came out, he was like, we're having two girls. Like, this is my life. Like, the other one's gonna be a girl. And, and, cause we really didn't know. And then they pulled out, it felt like forever. It felt like forever, but it was two minutes. They pull out baby B and... they're like taking a while and I'm like, why can't we see baby and they're like, it's a girl, it's a girl. And then, you we see her and it's like, okay, great. And I'm like, all right, close me up. I'll see them later. Like I just, was not the experience that I had thought I was going to have. at some point, like, ⁓ then I can start to like move my legs and they're like, okay, we got to like hurry up here. So ⁓ get back to the recovery room, ⁓ is like the labor and delivery room. And I had like the shakes and I had, I mean, I was just like, right, cause they take out. Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Katie Koehler: two bodies from you and your body, I mean, and you have surgery and like, so they like try to find me a bear hug in the hospital, which like to warm you up. And I was just like, I was definitely in a state of like, kept my eyes closed and was just trying to like heal quick, just like I was in shock. I was probably in shock, right? And like panic attack stuff and Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Yeah, that's a lot. And like, not even just the C-section, but like you were saying the whole week leading up to that of like the induction and not being able to eat, that is a lot on your body. A lot, a lot, a lot. Katie Koehler: Yeah so and then yeah it was it was a lot so I think I was just in shock and um and oh and I had a doula that had you know had arrived that like it just was like timing hadn't worked out and all the stuff and she arrives and uh oh and at this time they finally take my my uh pulse ox right my oxygen levels and they're like oh you're at like a 92 oxygen saturation and it's like you shouldn't be below like 99 or 100. I was at a 92 and I was like, I told you guys I couldn't breathe. And so they put me on oxygen and I was on oxygen for like 24 hours. They still couldn't tell me like kind of why that happened or if that's like a panic attack kind of thing. But yeah, so was on oxygen and they finally brought the girls in. It was about like two hours later after like they'd been taken out and stuff. And so there's like that kind of missed time too. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ my gosh. Katie Koehler: But my doula was there and she woke me up and she was like, open your eyes. Just open your eyes, your babies are here. Because I knew they were here. Like I could hear the room, but she was like, open your eyes, your babies are here. And she really helped me to open my eyes and hold my babies and be like, OK, yeah, I'm still very out of it, but all right. And so my husband did skin to skin and I did skin to skin. And so that was great. and then they wheeled us into like the, you know, the recovery room, which is much smaller than labor and delivery, and they don't give you a bigger room for twins. So we had two bassinets in there, which I was like, ⁓ yeah, why don't we just put them in the same one? But we had two bassinets in there. ⁓ it was the afternoon. ⁓ so because it was light out, who knows what time, maybe like one or two. ⁓ a nurse comes in and I said, hey, can you just like check? something just like doesn't quite feel right. Can you just like check my incision? And my husband's sleeping on the couch and babies are sleeping and she pulls the cover back and she goes, and I was like, what? And she goes, your bandage is soaked through with blood. And I was like, okay. Because they had given me a lovenock shot in the morning after delivery. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ no! Katie Koehler: and because they're worried, especially like after everything, and they told me I had hemorrhaged during the c-section. So yeah, there's a lot going on and so one I hemorrhaged and now I'm bleeding through the bandage. And yeah. And so my husband, this is his turn then, he was like, I heard a bunch of people and I was like, I'm not waking up, I'm not waking up. he did not, he was like, I can't handle this. Just too much trauma, right? Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ my gosh. Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: And ⁓ yeah, they came in and nobody could figure it out and they just kept changing the bandage and pressing and they're trying to put pressure on a ⁓ uterus that like, right? It didn't make any, like I was like, sure you guys can try this. They couldn't figure it out. I had to have a CT scan. ⁓ had to, they couldn't figure out where the bleeding was coming from. It was like a pinprick of a bleed. They were going to, it got so bad, they were going to open me back up on Monday. This was a Saturday morning we had them. They were going to open me back up and I said, if you have to open me back up, you knock me out. I don't want to be awake. I don't want to know anything. You knock me out. And like that Sunday night, I swear an angel of a doctor came in and she said, hey, I know everyone's been trying to work on you ⁓ do this. And so I can't promise anything, but I'm just going to try something ⁓ I'll be in here. every every two hours or you call me faster and I'll change the bandage and she like does her little magic does something and like 8 a.m comes around no blood it had stopped like bleeding it had stopped going through they cancel the extra surgery they cancel everything I was like that I was like that woman whoever she was like she just was like did some like nice little magic and like like I I have no idea I really think the universe was like Jessielee Sittig: What did she do? Katie Koehler: She's the only OB that had come in and said, I don't know if what I'm going to do here will help, but I will commit to you that I'll come in here every few hours and look. And every time she came in, it wasn't bleeding, it was fine. And she was just the most humble, I feel like, of like, we don't know what this is, and we're going to try. And it's like putting something on a balloon. We don't know, but we'll try. And I feel like just her humbleness and like... Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Katie Koehler: just being a woman and going like, yeah, we don't know what it is, but I'm gonna be here for you and I'm gonna like help you through it. And then I just felt like she was like this angel that came in. I was like, I'm just gonna help, because you definitely don't need that surgery again. And at the same time as that, ⁓ baby bee was having blood sugar issues, which turns out ⁓ more often than not, baby bees end up having blood sugar issues. ⁓ there's all sorts of hypothesis around this. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Katie Koehler: But when baby A comes out, then all the blood kind of rushes to B and then it creates an issue with blood sugar. I learned from Allegra and Aloha Nutrition that if I had had my colostrum saved beforehand, that likely could have helped her get better faster. But I didn't have any time to do that. But highly recommend if you want to do that, talk with your doctor and do it. It can help. So she had to go to the NICU. it was funny because my mom was there ⁓ and, you know, my husband and I wanted to go see baby be in the NICU. And I was like, Hey mom, can you like watch our baby? ⁓ Like, can you babysit on day one so that we can go see, go see our other baby? ⁓ And she was like, yeah. And then I was like, ⁓ we need to like ask anybody at the hospital? Like, you know. ⁓ And so that was something we had to do, right? Because you have two and you can't bring both babies, like you can't bring the other baby into the NICU with you. So if you don't have somebody else there, the parents can't go, yeah, the parents can't go see the baby that's in the NICU together, right? Which is like so hard. And I was in a wheelchair for the first two days because of the bleeding. And so I would have had to like... Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. That's so hard. Katie Koehler: do that and like experience it without my husband. And he was the one who was like able to go to the NICU like more often without me. So yeah, that was just something like things you don't think about with twins, right? Like if one of them is in the NICU ⁓ and one isn't and like how you go see the baby that's in the NICU and then, ⁓ my God, leaving a baby in the NICU and like going home, it's like your heart is ripped out of your chest. Like it's just the worst feeling in the whole world. And she thankfully came home on day five and we left on day three. So she was only there for two days by herself, but like it is like your heart is literally ripped out of your chest. Yeah. Those are like, that's like the fun pregnancy and birth story. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: Girl. That's a lot. Katie Koehler: Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. trauma counseling right after, like in the few weeks after. So I highly recommend doing that. And I did like talk through it because it was a lot of trauma. So just for folks out there, like you're not alone with trauma. Some people have great birth experiences, some people don't. I'm gonna do my best with my girls to explain that that was my experience and it had nothing to do with them. They were perfect. Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's so good. And I'm glad that you were able to like take time to process all of that because that's a lot. That's a lot. So I'm glad that you were able to, you know, process that in a healthy way. Katie Koehler: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Hey, I'm still for sure still processing it. Yeah, it's it's hard. It's really hard. You have to grieve like the experience that you thought you were going to have. ⁓ also like that's like a twin mom thing constantly, right? Of like grieving ⁓ that you thought you'd have. That just a little bit, it's different and there's so much joy, but there's also like you can grieve having not having the experience you originally thought that you were going to have. You have to grieve like experience that you thought you were going to have. ⁓ It's also like that's like a twin mom thing constantly, right? Of like grieving ⁓ experiences that you you'd have. bit, it's different and there's so much joy, but there's also like can grieve not having the experience originally thought that you were going to have. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's like, I don't think that we should feel any guilt about we have a very, especially having a singleton burst, you know, I was able to experience what it's like to have one baby ⁓ it is very, it is a world of difference. And all of these other. ⁓ levels of logistics, like even how you're talking about managing the NICU where one baby's in the NICU, one is not. How do you manage splitting up? Like all of those extra things are, you know, never even going to cross the mother, the mind of a singleton mom. So I think that grieving those moments or those seasons that we don't get is like a healthy thing to be able to do to acknowledge like Katie Koehler: Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: We didn't get to do that and this is our reality and that's okay, but to acknowledge it because it is important and that does matter, you know? Katie Koehler: Oh yeah, for sure. So many things. Like, Mubby and me time. I really thought I'd be going to the library and doing like Mubby and me time. That didn't happen until they were like, I don't know, eight months old and I could like go to go, you know, like we could all go together. Jessielee Sittig: Even then, I'm impressed. I really didn't do a lot of things like that with my sons because it was a lot. It's hard. It's a lot more complicated to do stuff like that, especially if you're alone or trying to get out of the house doing that by yourself. Well, I would love to hear. Obviously, your experiences sparked something in you to want to help others. And you started Twin Mama Market. Katie Koehler: Yes. ⁓ yeah. Jessielee Sittig: So can you tell us, I know you mentioned that like a little bit in the beginning, but can you talk about that? And then the app that you've been developing, I'd love to hear more about that. Katie Koehler: Yeah, so ⁓ went back to work at about five months postpartum. I am a big, advocate that we need mandatory one-year paid leave for ⁓ maternity in this country. I felt it was like the hardest thing I've ever done is go back to work. And you're talking to somebody who like work was my life. ⁓ that was I was like, work was me. Like I was work. Like I did not have a good work-life balance. ⁓ And so I never ever would have thought that it would be hard to go back to work. ⁓ I just never thought that was going to be me. ⁓ it was the hardest thing I've ever done, like from a literal, ⁓ standpoint. I just felt like I'm leaving my babies behind. And this was like, I could work from home for like multiple days a week, right? But it still felt like ⁓ supposed to be with them. ⁓ I really feel like we need to ⁓ that in this country. And we need to make sure that we are giving minimum one year minimum. Like it'd be great if it's 18 months. And like, we all know, every single mom knows like that's not a vacation. That is not like you're just like off enjoying like a whole bunch of stuff. Like you're keeping little humans alive with your body or with like, right? Like with your body, without your body, like you're keeping humans alive. And you know, especially anyone with toddlers know like they try to, they try to like hurt themselves all the time and jump off of things, right? But like, Jessielee Sittig: No. Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: literally when they're when they're under a year old like they're just reliant on you like solely and and the fact that we are like ⁓ you have to go back to work is like so awful to me and ⁓ so ⁓ i'm a big proponent of that anyone that like knows how we can solve that please reach out to me because i want to like i just want to like advocate for that and like get that going and like solve that for ⁓ I don't know if I'll ever need it again, but I want it for every single woman after me. I want to make sure they have that. ⁓ So it's not about me necessarily anymore, maybe, but maybe not. And I want that to be for every woman after me. And so I went back to work and there's this thing that happens where you realize your perspective shifts and I just had a different perspective of like, work doesn't mean the same thing that it did before. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: it felt much more like a job and I needed something that was like a little creative outlet when they were like a year old because they were sleeping. We have great sleepers, they sleep. I do that healthy habits for life like sleep thing and like they sleep like they're great, they're down, like they're awesome. And we were doing like, you know, the dream feeds and things like that. But then like once that stopped, we had like our nights. And so I was like, cool, work is a job. And I need something else that's like kind of creative and like sparks that energy in me. And so I started like sketching on my iPad and drawing things. And then I just was like, okay, cool. I'll create like a little like, you know, twin marketplace for stuff and like design and, know, like design things in Canva. like, just like, cause it was just fun to like design and be creative and like make shirts for the girls. And so I like. One of my favorites are these shirts that are, say, best friends and they have little popsicles on them and they're holding hands, like they're little popsicle hands, and they wear those shirts and I'm like, you're like the cutest things on the planet. So I'm like, ⁓ or not anybody else wants them, ⁓ literally make them available for other people, but then I buy them and my girls wear them and it's the cutest thing ever. Jessielee Sittig: Thank you. Katie Koehler: so, yeah, I create, like, I just created that for that creative outlet. ⁓ I learned a whole bunch, right, of just, creating an LLC, because, like, it's an actual business. So that's Like, that's a total avenue I never thought I'd do. ⁓ And then, so it's Etsy, right? So, Twin Mom Marketplace on Etsy, on Instagram, like, it's all there. ⁓ And it like, I was like, ⁓ I have to, like, promote my Etsy store, right, for people to find me, like, ⁓ sure. So I created an Instagram that I was like, it was just gonna be like, just showing the things that I made. And then was like, well, I guess I can like also talk about being a twin mom. And like, I'm not trying to be like an influencer, like that's not like the jam at all. Like it's really just like, hi, I'm a twin mom that like wants other twin mom friends. And I also wanna like share things that maybe you don't hear from your other singleton mom friends or your other friends or your doctors or anything. Like I can tell you things that... actually lived experiences that are real and like just can be there for you. yeah, that's how that started. ⁓ And I talk a lot about like my pumping journey, because I also exclusively pumped for the girls for 25 months, which like, anybody can can use that information. I'm like, you can do it. Like I went back to work at five months. And like, I, I made it happen. I emailed my boss and I was like, I am going to be pumping for the foreseeable future. know this and like and he was like got it yep my wife my wife did the same thing cool and I was like great don't know when I'm gonna stop ⁓ so I'm just a really big proponent of like as as moms we need to talk more about all the stuff we're doing and so that's what I talk a lot about on Instagram too with like in addition to the Etsy store is like talking on Instagram about like we just need to talk about this stuff like we need to talk about the realities of being a working mom the realities of Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: being a mom and like the things that we're doing and what it takes, what it took to like pump for 25 months. Like that didn't just happen, right? Like that was a lot of support. had a ton of, well, I had a ton of support, right? And I had advocacy and like, just, and friends that got it and everyone that understood and amazing people on Instagram that I found that helped me through that. So I cannot like say enough about the Instagram mom community of like real, real moms that are helping each other is so phenomenal. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, that's a lot. Katie Koehler: And I also really wanted to like give back everything that I learned and who I met and like give back. yeah, so I did. And then like in the, so that was like February of 2024-ish, maybe I started Twin One Marketplace. And then, or maybe it was 2025. And then, yes, it was 2025. So the girls were over a year old. And then in the fall of 2025, I published a baby board book because, I didn't have enough going on in my life. so I was, cause I was like, hey, I want a book that like tells the story of like you go to an ultrasound and you see two babies on the screen. And so, it's like kind of from the baby's perspective of like mom went for a check and then she, you know, like she sees two babies and my girls love, they're like, baby, baby, two babies. Jessielee Sittig: Aww. Katie Koehler: And it tells the story from their perspective, right? Of like, then we were here and then we did this and we do all this stuff together and we like, sometimes we don't like each other, right? But it's like the whole journey, right? Of like the ultrasound screen to like the ⁓ being pregnant and then like growing up as ⁓ twin and so that's on Amazon so I put that out. Never ever ever would have thought I would do a baby board book like who thinks to do that? That's a wild thing trying to like get a baby board book printed and like I know a whole lot more about books now. I'm learning a lot in motherhood about just like different things ⁓ I never would have thought about before motherhood and my latest thing that I wanted to get out there for folks is a mobile app to help mom, help parents, right? I was very big on, especially with twins, like tracking everything because we ⁓ wanted to, so we wanted to do a schedule because we have a great team here called, or program called Northern Virginia Parents of Multiples, ⁓ VPOM, and they hooked us up with like, talking somebody three times a year, and she's like a sleep coach, and she's the founder of ⁓ the Go Carrier too, and she like lives in this area, so she's, yes, so she's amazing. Jessielee Sittig: Cool. Katie Koehler: And so she's a twin mom and Singleton mom. And she was talking to us and she's like, what's your plan with sleep? I said, ⁓ or Fidi, I was like, ⁓ we're just gonna let the babies like do what they want to do. Be really laissez faire, right? And she goes, yeah, you can do that. One baby might be awake during the day and one baby might be awake during the night and you will slowly go insane. And I was like, ⁓ that doesn't sound good. So we immediately were like schedule. That meant we had to track everything. Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Katie Koehler: And so we were tracking everything down on paper. We were tracking everything with like, bought these like $100 physical trackers. We're tracking on that, like that connected to an app, like spend a bunch of money, wrote things down on paper. Everything's fine. Schedules were changing constantly as they were growing and constantly updating it, right? And so I thought like, wouldn't it have been helpful to have a mobile app where I could just like track what I wanted to track, as many different things as I wanted to track and... Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: be able to do it seamlessly because all the trackers that I had, like the mobile apps, you had to switch profiles for kids. And I was like, I don't want to switch profiles. Like sometimes they both have a dirty diaper and I just want to say ping, dirty diaper. And it tracks it for both. And you can see everything on a screen. I made it of, it's like my little tagline is all your littles all at once. ⁓ this works for, it works for multiples. It works for multiple children. It works for singletons. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm, yeah. Hmm, I love that. Katie Koehler: but it's everything that you could possibly want to track. And we were also talking like, it tracks like when the teeth come in and it gives you a little like visual of like what teeth and you just put like front tooth, back tooth and it tells you what teeth are coming next and it tracks milestones and it gives you helpful hints and it also gives you insights on multiples if you have multiples. And I made it for like, I thought about what about the triplet moms and the quadruplets and the quintuplets and like all of that like. Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Katie Koehler: they have so many people watching their kids and like, I'm sure they want to get on a schedule. And so it also does a schedule thing. And if you want a particular schedule, it'll look at what you've been doing for the past like seven days. And it'll give you advice on how to get onto the same schedule too. So I tried to, yeah. Yeah. So I tried to build something that ⁓ for any parent, anywhere they are, right. If they want to track one thing, like diapers or two things, diapers and feeds. Jessielee Sittig: Mm. ⁓ cool. Katie Koehler: or if they wanna track like everything, right? So it's up to the parent on how they wanna use the app, but the really important part to me was like you see all your littles all at once and you don't have to be switching profiles. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, that's huge because that was like the app that we use was like that. And I actually only ended up tracking, like keeping track of things for one baby. I'm quoting that because it was like, I just combined them. So then we would be like, I don't, then it started getting confusing. Like whose paper did I just change? Because I marked that I changed one at 125, but whose was it? Because it was... Katie Koehler: Yes. Yes. Yes. Jessielee Sittig: very annoying to go back and forth to the profiles. know what you're talking about. And I love that you are doing like the logistics that newborn parents need. We need like diapers, bottles, pumping, sleep, know, things like that. And then you also took it a step further to have milestones, TVing, all of that in one app. I think that is so cool and I can't wait to see it. And I'm just like so impressed by all the things that you have done. Katie Koehler: Yes. Yes. Yeah, I'm excited. Jessielee Sittig: And I really do feel like with a lot of moms I talk to, I'm like, we can have like 10 episodes. Like we could have a whole episode about you just exclusively pumping because pumping for 25 months is so incredible. I pumped for seven and I'm like, I'm proud of myself, but 25 months. mean, that's a lot of hard work, sacrifice, dedication. And then the board book and the Etsy shop. And now this app, it's all Katie Koehler: ⁓ for sure. Jessielee Sittig: so exciting and I'm really proud of you. Like your girls are not even three yet and look at what you've done. That's really impressive and that you work full time on top of it. Katie Koehler: Yeah, yeah, it's wild. It's really fun when you hear about motherhood, And there's a whole kind of thing out there of a narrative that you become less ambitious or something, and this is a narrative in the working world. And I'm like, I actually think I'm more ambitious since motherhood. Right? I'm more creative, more ambitious, more like, which is wild, because I don't even know, I would like to sleep more. Jessielee Sittig: I agree. I was going to say, you getting any sleep? Are you? Katie Koehler: Yeah, yeah, like enough, right? But I could definitely be doing more sleep. That would be so good. But yeah, instead I'm like, everyone needs a mobile app and I want to help parents. I just want to help other people. I'm going to build this for them. Jessielee Sittig: I love it though, feel like becoming a mom, I have been more passionate about things that fuel me, like connecting with other twin moms. So ⁓ like you find these passion projects that you really, really care about and that's where you wanna put your time. ⁓ I think moms are like unstoppable. Like you give a mom ⁓ hour, ⁓ we will get it done. Like the things you can get done in one hour. And I feel like, man, I used to waste so much time. Like what did I do before I had kids? Katie Koehler: ⁓ yeah, like I can get like I can clean the house have like food ready work and work on my mobile app and like play with the girls and do laundry and do all of that in like an hour. I'm like got it. Listen, also the hack for twin parents is like when your kids want to take things out of the dryer, right? That's like then like and then when they know to take it out of the dryer and take it to your room. It's like they're getting their steps in you're getting the clothes taken somewhere like it's very nice. So that also is very helpful when they when they get a little bit older. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm and everyone can start pitching in and doing teamwork Yeah, I love that Well, okay I we've been talking for an hour and 20 like it goes goes fast Are there any other like big topics that we didn't touch on that you want to touch on before we like wrap it up? Katie Koehler: Yes. Yeah, it does go fast. I mean, I think the other thing about motherhood that I wanted to like, just like, if there's others out there that are feeling this way or wanted to know like this happened to is like, what I found interesting about motherhood and pregnancy was all these things that were like, can't, like, ⁓ you shouldn't have all these things in pregnancy. And I was like, wait a second, like, so I can't have all these things during pregnancy, but I can like have them ⁓ rest of the time that I'm alive. And so there's something that struck me as like something's not right about that. ⁓ ⁓ became really ⁓ of ⁓ ⁓ that are in our products, right? And so chemicals and other things that are in our products that are ⁓ great for us all as human beings, regardless of if we're pregnant or not. ⁓ so I became ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Mmm. Mm, sure. Katie Koehler: mindful of that and that's something again that I think has switched in motherhood that I'm much more mindful about products, what's in them, researching the chemicals, which also who has time for that. there are great apps out there that help you look at some of that stuff, thank goodness. But I went through the house ⁓ pretty postpartum and threw out a bag full of things ⁓ that certain chemicals in them that just was like, ⁓ these aren't great for humans, right? And so that's been a new thing that I would not have said, ⁓ my gosh, 20, 30 year old me, just doing whatever and living life. I had no concept of that. And so now that's definitely something that I am ⁓ into and also would very much like to advocate for of we should just have clean, healthy things being sold to us all the time. ⁓ don't need it to be a special thing for pregnant people. We need it to be for all humans. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm, yeah. Katie Koehler: And we need to make sure our products are clean and non-toxic and all of that. So if other moms are feeling that, like, hey, I felt it, I'm in it. There can be a lot of misinformation around it, but there's also a lot of information, good information out there that you can find that can help you with it. And yeah, just know that you're not alone if you're in that world of non-toxic living. Jessielee Sittig: That's so true. And I feel like I went down this like rabbit hole after my miscarriages of like, because I didn't know what the solution I didn't know that I had a blood clotting disorder. I'm just trying to grab at anything that could be a reason. And I remember my husband came into our kitchen one day, and I'm like, knee deep in our Tupperware drawer. And he was like, What are you doing? I'm like, it all has to go. We're not eating out of plastic anymore. And he was like, you've lost it. Katie Koehler: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: And I'm like, this is toxic and it's this is why we can't have babies. So I feel you on that. And it's only like opened up my world more having kids and like what sunscreen is the safest and what lotions are the safest and clothing. And I so I completely I'm I'm on that journey as well. I try I feel like, you know, I'm trying very hard to also find like non toxic products. Katie Koehler: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's, yeah, it's like an 80-20 too, right? Like you have to give yourself grace. You've got it, because like, yes, you have to live a little. And I also remind myself, like, I'm focused on this and doing this. And there's a whole lot of people out there who are not focused on it and they're fine. So like, right? Like it will be fine. like exposure to some stuff is like going to be fine. Jessielee Sittig: Yes, yeah, gotta live a little. Katie Koehler: But that is a journey that I think a lot of us are on and isn't necessarily like out there or can seem a little like, oh, you're over there doing that. And it's like, no, no, no, like we should all be focused on this, right? We're all learning stuff, new stuff all the time. There's new information coming out. And so like, let's learn from it and grow and like try to live healthier, cleaner lives for that we all are healthier, right? Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah. Do you have like a favorite app or Instagram account that goes over non-toxic stuff that you are enjoying? Katie Koehler: Yeah, I mean I've been using like Yuca, like Y-U-K-A for like grocery store stuff. I haven't found a super great one for like products, like right, like if you have like sunscreens ⁓ and and stuff like There's a few different Instagram accounts but like I also like have to balance it with ⁓ if they're selling a certain thing right. Jessielee Sittig: Okay. Mm-hmm, yeah. Katie Koehler: So that's still really hard. Like I haven't found like a true kind of like that person that's like that 80, 20 non-toxic living, right? That like also isn't trying to sell something, right? Like, so I'm still on the lookout for that. Maybe one of your like listeners will have someone that they could share with us. That would be awesome. But just a journey that I've been on, one of the many of motherhood that I like did not expect. Jessielee Sittig: Sure, yeah. Katie Koehler: and that I care a lot about. I'm also like for anyone out there, I'm also the mom who has not done sugar for my girls yet, ⁓ which I got a lot of like, like ever. Jessielee Sittig: Like, ever? That's impressive. ⁓ my gosh. My mom, ⁓ it's all like, I love my mom to death. She's probably listening. Hello, mom. I love you so much. Stop giving my kids so much sugar. It is like a constant battle between me and her where I'm like, they don't need all of that. They know that you love them. You know, without candy, yeah. Katie Koehler: Yeah. Yeah, without the sugar. Yeah, no. mean, listen, as far as I know, and I think everyone's been pretty respectful. They all know I feel that way. But again, it's because I have, and the reason I pump so long and the reason that we don't do sugar is because I have dietary issues. And so I'm doing my best to build the healthiest microbiomes for the girls so that they can live a full life where they don't have to worry about all the... Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Mm. Katie Koehler: things that I have to worry about. And so fully like it's definitely not a like, hey, everyone needs to do that or anything like that. And so I think it's more about like, understanding that people do things for different reasons. Like I have reasons of like, wanted breast milk for them because it gave them the best opportunity at like a healthy microbiome for our genetics, right? And not everyone has these same issues. So like, it's like not an issue for them. And same with like sugar and Jessielee Sittig: Sure. Katie Koehler: we don't do certain medications and stuff because it has an impact on the gut. And I'm like, if I have alternatives that work and our pediatrician is like, yes, those are great, and it has a better impact on their gut, that's why I'm doing certain things, not because it's a trend or because, right? And I think that's an important thing as moms. We have to always give each other grace on things because say another... Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Sure. Katie Koehler: it just because like your kids have sugar like that's fine like you like if you don't have the same environment and the same genetics that I do right and the reason I'm like doing stuff for my girls like that's totally fine and nobody should ever pressure anybody to do something just just because right or feel like ⁓ like I'm not doing that it's like well no you're your genetics your guts great like your microbiomes are great from the start like you don't have to worry about anything Like ours are ours are not and and I want to try to try to change it So that's something I try to share with a lot of moms out there too of like I share what I'm doing because like if anybody else out there is also doing it and needs support like happy to be there want to be support for you, but also awareness that like I'm doing it for specific reasons related to like our health and like the girls health and things like that and Not because of like, know some trends out there and things like that Jessielee Sittig: Well, I love that. think that's such a good point. Like I think before I was a mom, was very, I think just to be honest, I feel like I was probably judgmental. Like, oh, I would never do that as a mom. And then becoming a mom, I'm like, oh my gosh, like I just respect moms and the choices they make so much. And you have to make the choice that's right for your family. Katie Koehler: ⁓ sure, yeah. Jessielee Sittig: And what I do and what my next door neighbor do might be wildly different. And like, I respect you 100 % because you're making the right choice for your family. And I feel like I've only learned that like in becoming a mom, but I have a lot more respect for like families and family choices. And you don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you and I respect you, you know? I think that's, yeah, that's so, so huge. Katie Koehler: same. same. Like I, I also, so my mom and I have always been really close and but even like my understanding of her changed when I became a mom, right? I think that just naturally happens. And so now I ⁓ do best on my birthday or like the week of my birthday to spend an entire day with her and just like honor her around my birthday, right? Because like Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: It's just like what she went through having me, like I want to like make sure to always honor that. And that's something that also like really changed. Before that, it was like, it's my birthday. It's all about me, just me. And now it's like, yes, yes. Jessielee Sittig: Totally, but that shifts like you can only have that perspective once you're a mom that like your birthday is as meaningful to you as it is to your mom. And you can't understand that until you're a mom yourself. So yeah, I love that. okay, well, I would love know if you could have a heart to heart with the twin mom. Katie Koehler: Yes. Yes. Jessielee Sittig: Or if you could give her a piece of advice, what would you tell her? Katie Koehler: A heart to heart, I would say you are probably going to feel alone in those first early months, even when you're surrounded by people or not. You will probably still feel alone in a, in an odd way because you're a twin mom. And I want them to know that you're not alone. Like there are so many twin moms out there. who want to connect and want to share stories and want to be there for you. And it may mean that your kids are similar in age. It may mean the kids are different in ages, but there are twin moms out there who want to be there for you and want to make sure you know you're not alone. But for whatever reason, and this may be all moms too, it may be all like... all moms, but I do feel like it hits twin moms differently because we don't get to go to like the library story times and the mommy and me's and like in those early days and it's like survival mode that you're going to feel alone, but like you are so not alone. And there are so many twin moms who just want to like be there. And a lot of us are on Instagram and we're like there and we're real people, like we're real, real twin moms. Like we just want to be there to like reach out. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Katie Koehler: And there's also usually parents of multiples groups in your location. so like research that, find parents of multiples groups, find twin groups, find twin Facebook groups. Like those Facebook groups helped me so much. I never would have thought about that before becoming a twin mom. And they helped me so much. And so like, you're gonna feel alone, but you're not alone. And there's so many people out there who wanna help and like go do the Facebook twin. twin mom groups, go to Instagram twin moms, go to like they're there and they're real people and they want to help you. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I love that and so true and like the whole reason I wanted to start this because Twin moms need to connect and twin moms need to hear from other twin mom Experiences and there aren't a lot of outlets to do that. So I really appreciate that and I'll link all of this stuff in the show notes But can you say where people can connect with you on Instagram? Like what's your handle? Katie Koehler: Yeah, sure. So on Instagram, I'm TwinmamaMarketplace and I'm also starting a TikTok and Instagram for My Littles Hub for my mobile app. So that will be launching soon. It's technically out there, but there's not a lot of activity on it yet. if folks want to sign up, do have, you can go to ⁓ and you can sign up to join the wait list to see, ⁓ to be notified when the app launches. Jessielee Sittig: Awesome, and I will link your Instagram and your board book and your Etsy shop and the app all in the show notes so you can have everything. You can click it there. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Like I said, we could literally have so many more episodes of all these topics that we were able to kind of just touch on. So I would love to have you back on in the future. And I'm so thankful for your time. Thank you so much for coming on today. Katie Koehler: ⁓ awesome. Yes, thank you. Yeah, I'd love to chat more. can chat more about like twin toddlerhood and all that fun stuff that comes with like twin toddlerhood. Jessielee Sittig: know we didn't even get into that. There's so many more, ⁓ so many more we could talk about for sure. Katie Koehler: I know. It's awesome. I'm so glad we finally got to meet and I'm so glad I have like a twin mom friend now. Jessielee Sittig: Yes, me too. Okay,