Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Lesley Groff And The Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 1-4) (8/21/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Lesley Groff And The Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 1-4) (8/21/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to begin taking
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: a look at Leslie Groff and the transcript from her
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: appearance in front of Congress, and we're going to skip
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: all the swearing in and talking about you know the
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: rules of engagement, if you will, we all know those now,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: So we're going to start with Leslie Groff and our
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: opening statement. Ms. Groff. Okay, good morning, Chairman, ranking member,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and members of the Committee. My name is Leslie Groff.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I have no experience in public speaking. I've never testified
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: in court. I am introverted and shy, and this is
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: petrifying to me. So I apologize to you if my
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: responses are awkward. Still I'm here. I look forward to
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: providing information to this committee voluntarily, just as I did
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one when I spoke voluntarily with prosecutors
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: in New York. I want to help you in any
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: way that I can. I hope that it'll prevent this
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: evil conduct from ever occurring again. I believe that my
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: testimony will dispel the false notions that, because of my
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: employment with Epstein, I must have knowingly enabled or conspired
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: with them to commit these evil acts. Nothing could be
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: further from the truth. Since mister Epstein's arrest in twenty nineteen,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I struggle with sleep. I can't eat. Many of my
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: friends and acquaintances have shunned me. For the last seven years,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: my now twenty one year old son's life has been
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: in turmoil, and I've been the target of harassment and
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: death threats. I've chosen to speak with you all to
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: tell the truth as I know it. My recollection of
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: many things is generally poor, since they occurred as far
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: back as twenty five years ago. I'll try my very best,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: and I thank you for your patience. I want to
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: say without any doubt that I have come to believe
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: the man who employed me from February of two thousand
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and one through July of twenty nineteen was a monster.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: For eighteen years, I worked for Jekyl, but was never
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: permitted to see the true mister Hyde. Mister Epstein was,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: in hindsight, a master manipulator and deceiver who separated his
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: legitimate life from his secret life as an abuser, and
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: made sure that as his secretary, those two worlds did
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: not collide. I had every reason not excuse me. Had
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: every reason not to tell me about his crimes. He
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: had no leverage on me. I was not like Sarah Kellen,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: whose testimony just broke my heart. Sexually abused by Epstein.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't need the job. Our family was financially secure.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Most importantly, I would have never sat silent if I
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: knew of his crimes. Mister Epstein used me and intentionally
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: kept me on the outside of his perverted life. He
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: did not know me when I was hired. It was
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: nonsensical for him to confide in me a total stranger,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: or allow me to learn that he was abusing women.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Now let me tell you a little bit about myself.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I was born in Dallas and raised in a Protestant
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: home in Plano. I graduated from the University of Texas
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: at Dallas. I moved to Jersey in ninety and married
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: my first husband in ninety three. I worked at his
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: office supply company. I then worked as a salesperson at Nordstrom's.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: After my divorce, I met my husband Ike. I decided
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I wanted it to be an event planner, so I
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: posted my resume on monster dot Com. I was contacted
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: by a headhunter about a job with the New York Knicks. Unfortunately,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I missed the interview because of snowstorm in Manhattan. That
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: same day. The headhunter asked if I was interested in
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: working for a wealthy businessman as an administrative assistant to
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: keep his very busy life organized. That same day I
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: interviewed at the Helmsley Palace with Glenn Maxwell and then
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein. They explained to me that i'd be with
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein, his executive assistant secretary, organizing his calendar, making appointments,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: and dealing with his endless calls. I could tell this
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: was an office environment that looked exciting, challenging, and attractive
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: to me. About a week later, I accepted the job
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: at a salary fifty thousand. From two thousand and one
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to two thousand and nine, I worked exclusively out of
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Helmsley Palace. When I began working for mister Epstein, I
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: was thirty five years old. I was trained by Redacted,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the woman I was replacing. Redacted explained that I would
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: be inundated with calls, scheduling, and coordinating his staff to
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: make sure that they've fulfilled his often demanding work requests.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: For example, making sure that he had reading glasses at
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: every table at every one of his homes and offices,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: or sourcing very late in the day a dozen chocolate
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: croissants made in New York to be delivered the Palm
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Beach by nine the next morning. Miss Maxwell redacted and
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: other staff also told me that mister Epstein's day included
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: a morning muffin, a private yoga lesson, and a massage
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: for me. Many of his routines were luxuries, but everyone
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: treated them as normal, and I was expected to arrange
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: them as part of my job. I was astonished by
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the truly impressive people in his circle. Past presidents, military leaders,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: former politicians, foreign dignitaries, actors, musicians, scientists, authors, mathematicians, university professors, inventors,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: titans of business, models, fashion designers, and philanthropists. It was
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: a world I had no experience with, and I was
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: captivated by it. I actually felt lucky to have found
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: such an amazing job. I was thrust into the lifestyle
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: of the rich and famous. Mister Epstein's directive for a
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: massage was just another small part of the elite world
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I was not from, and was a very small part
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: of what was demanded from me on a daily basis.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: From day one, mister Epstein and Miss Maxwell established guardrails.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: They made it very clear to me that I was
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: a replaceable employee. Maxwell and Epstein told me that I
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: was never to associate with their friends or contacts or
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I'd be fired. The people I spoke with in my
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: job were their friends and colleagues, not mine. Their business
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: was none of my business, and not to forget it.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: If I messed up in an appointment, I could be fired. Frequently,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein yelled at me to the point of tears
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: when I made an error with an appointment. He screamed
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: that I ruined his day and that the time lost
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: could never be replaced. I recalled that weeks after I
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: was hired, one of mister Epstein's contacts invited me to
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: attend a party with my husband in New York City.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: The next workday, Mister Epstein and Miss Maxwell, who were
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: not at the party, somehow found out that I had attended,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: and they torched me. They told me I had crossed
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: the line into his social life and I'd be fired instead.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Mister Epstein put me on probation. He ordered me to
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: completely separate myself from his personal world. In hindsight, I
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: wish he had fired me. Since that time twenty five
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: years ago, I've never socialized with mister Epstein or a
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Miss Maxwell. I've never been on his aeroplane. I've never
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: been to one of his parties. I never visited him
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: in jail after he was convicted in two thousand and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: eight or after he was arrested in twenty eighteen. I
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: never accompanied him to Little Saint James or a Zoro ranch,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: or to his Pon Beach residents. In fact, in my
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: eighteen years as his secretary, I've been to Little Saint
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: James three times, once with my husband and twice for
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: work to view construction projects. These visits were during the
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: day and lasted only a couple hours. I stated as
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Paris Guest department once with my husband. Mister Epstein was
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: not there. From two thousand and one to two thousand
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: and nine, I worked exclusively at Helmsley Palace. When you
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: entered the reception area, my office was located in the
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: rear of the suite and I could not see who
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: entered or exited. Visitors were able to enter and leave
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein's office through a separate entrance without seeing them
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: without me seeing them. In two thousand and nine, the
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: offices moved to sixty sixth Street, then to five seventy
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: five Lexington Avenue, and then around twenty thirteen to his
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: mansion on seventy first Street. Not once did I see
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: or hear anything illegal. Every morning mister Epstein called me
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: at nine am with literally dozens of matters for me
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to complete that day. I had no free time. I
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: went from task to task. I had two phones on
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: my desk, ringing constantly. Almost daily, I made a massage
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: appointment for mister Epstein. He provided me the name and
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: telephone number of a massuse and I called her. These
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: calls lasted literally a few seconds. Hi, this is Leslie
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: calling for mister Epstein. Are you available for a massage?
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: At four Sometimes massuses called the office and asked if
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein wanted a massage. On occasion, mister Epstein directed
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: me to arrange massages for his guests, both men and women,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: at hotels and spas. To me, a few minutes it
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: took to arrange massages for mister Epstein were just part
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: of his routine, like going to the gym. For some people.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: From two thousand and one, to about twenty thirteen. I
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: never stepped foot in the mansion, nor have I ever
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: been in the private quarters of his home, including one
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: of the massage took place. I'd never seen photos of
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: nude women there. From in or about two thousand and
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: five to two thousand and seven, when I became pregnant
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: and gave birth to my son, I was rarely at
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: the office. I had a job sharing agreement with herdacted
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: who had also just given birth, and I worked from
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: home at least two days a week. I only came
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: into the office on the rare occasion when mister Epstein
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: was there. It's important for the committee to understand that,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: to my knowledge, I never met any of these messuses.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: None of these women or anyone else ever told me
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: that they were miners or that they were sexually abused.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Nothing I heard or saw led me to believe otherwise.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Even Sarah Kellen, who courageously told this committee about her
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: sexual abuse, confirmed that she never told me of her abuse,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: even though we spoke with each other. Finally, I wished
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: to address why I did not leave Epstein's employ after
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: his arrest in two thousand and eight. My experience in
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: that regard was similar to Miss Kellen's than others like Sarah.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: It was not until some time after mister Epstein's conviction
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: that I learned the government and mister Epstein's lawyers had
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: included me and others in the non prosecution agreement as
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: potential co conspirators. I'm not a conspirator, and I never
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: would have agreed to that language. Their unilateral decision to
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: label me as a potential conspirator remains my scarlet letter.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: After his arrest in two thousand and eight, Epstein lied
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: to me and insisted that he had been blackmailed and
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: set up. His attorney told me the same thing. He
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: angrily said that the allegations against him were fake and
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: he had no idea that the women he had contact
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: with was a minor. It was a shakedown, he claimed
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: for money. In my mind, there was a reason that
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: he was treated so leniently by law enforcement for such
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: a serious crime. Although I consider resigning, Epstein convinced me
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: to remain. He played on my loyal nature. I actually
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: believed that he had been set up. I believed that
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: he could be kind and generous in caring because the
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: way he often treated me and others. I know now
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: that this kindness was a facade, ud and just part
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: of his manipulation. I also saw the VIPs continue to
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: surround Epstein after his conviction. I know now that everything
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: he did was a scheme intended to protect himself members
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: of the committee. My heart breaks for these women, I
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: believe them. Words cannot express how badly I feel that
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I was employed by mister Epstein during the time he
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: abused these women. I will live with that horrible feeling
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. But what I cannot
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: and should not live with are the false innuendos and
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: accusations that I knowingly aided his evil conduct. And that's
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: why I'm here today. Thank you. All right, folks, We're
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: going to wrap up right here and in the next
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: we left off. All the information that goes with this
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're picking up where we left off with
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: a Leslie Groff transcript from her interview with Congress Miss Toland.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you, mister Emmer. We've had another member joined. Can
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: she please announce yourself for the record, Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: first Congressional District. Mister Toland. The time reads ten twenty
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: and the majority of time will begin now. The questions
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: are being asked by Miss Tolan. Question. Thank you for
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: appearing here today. We appreciate your assistance in the investigation.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go through a few background questions, some
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: might be repetitive from your opening statement, just so the
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: record is clear. Where were you born answer Dallas, Texas? Question?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: And what year were you born? Answer nineteen sixty six? Question?
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: And can you briefly describe your professional career for the committee?
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Answer my professional career question? Yes, answer My first job
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: question yes answer. My first job was when I was
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: in fifth grade. I walk from elementary school to a
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: little preschool to help my mother teach dance to little
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: girls that worked there, not worked there, or went there.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: And then in seventh grade, I believe I started working
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: for my father, who was an entrepreneur. He owned his
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: own construction company, and my sister and I would stack
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: bricks and scrape windows of the homes that he built.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I also worked for Fridays as a hostess, and I
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: taught dance. When I was in eleventh and twelfth grade,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: drank college. I worked at Chili's as a waitress, and
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: then when I moved to New Jersey, I worked for
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: my first husband in his office supply company. It was
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: a commercial office supply company. I was there as a
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: customer service rep. And then after that I worked for Nordstrooms.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I sold men's clothing, and then after that I got
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: the job with mister Epstein. Question and what year was
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: at Answer? That was two thousand and one. Question and
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: when did your employment with mister Epstein end? Answer twenty nineteen.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Question and were you working the same position that entire time?
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Answer yes, question executive secretary? Is that yeah? Correct? Answer
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: executive secretary. Question And were there any breaks in your
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: employment or was it all the way through from two
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: thousand and one to twenty nineteen? Answer? I meet no
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: official breaks except when I was pregnant. I definitely want
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: on maternity leave for about three or four months. Question
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: And are you currently employed? Answer? I am not. Question
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: do you currently receive any income? Answer? I do not.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Question Tell me about the first time you interacted with
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. Answer that would be on the day I
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: went for the interview. I first met, I believe, with
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Miss Maxwell's assistant, and then I met with Miss Maxwell.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And then I met with mister Epstein in his office
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: and he interviewed me. It was rather quick, maybe like
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: ten minutes. I sat in front of his desk, and
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I noticed that the phone kept bringing and he would
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: take the calls, speak briefly, and then hung up and
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: then speak with me again. Question and this was also
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and one. Do you recall the month
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: or the day eight on that answer? I believe it
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: was February, I believe. Question February two thousand and one. Answer,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Uh huh, Emmer, we've had another member join. Can he
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: please announce himself for the record. Andy Biggs Arizona Brignac
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: ms Groff, who was redacted Miss Maxwell's assistant at the time,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: answers Leslie Groff questions by Miss Toland once again. Question
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: and where did this interview take place? Again? Answer at
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: four point fifty seven Madison Avenue. It was Helmsley Palace.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Question and how did you receive the opportunity to get
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: the interview? Answer right, So, a headhunter had called me
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: for a position at the new York Knicks. He had
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: found my resume on monster dot com. He had his
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: own business, but unfortunately I couldn't get to the city
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: when he wanted me to, and by the time I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: got in, the position for the New York Knicks was
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: already taken. And once he met me, he consulted with
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: some other people in the office and came back to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: me and said, you know, we might have another position
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: if you're interested. It'd be working for one man who
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: you know, you'd organize his life. He's a socialite, he's
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: a businessman. It sounded, you know, exciting, and he asked
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: me if I had time, that he would call this
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: gentleman and see if I could actually go down for
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: an interview that day, And amazingly he was available, and
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I actually walked up to the Helmsley Palace and that
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: was the interview question. And you mentioned speaking with mister
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Epstein and he was taking calls. What was he like
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: during the interview? Answer? He was very business like, I
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: mean just business like and professional. Question And what did
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: he ask you during the interview? Answer? Where I had
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: worked before? So I let him know about the office
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: supply company and Nordstrums because those were my most recent jobs.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: He asked me if I, you know, was able to
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: use a computer, if I had worked on a computer before,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and you know I could type, you know, things along
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: those lines. Question do you recall any other discussions you
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: may have had with them? Answer? It so long ago.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I think it was all just very basic. Mister Emmer
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: jumps in. We've had another member join. Can you please
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: announce himself for the record, Congressman Stephen Lynch from Massachusetts
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: A district back to Miss Toland asking questions question and
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: did you also interview with Glenn Maxwell? Answer? I did
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: her first. Yeah. Question and what was she like during
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the interview? Answer? She was professional, friendly, wanted to make
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: sure kind of the same things. You know, could I
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: use a computer or type? Was I okay with fast
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: paced atmosphere? Wanted to know my background, you know. Question
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: did she interview with anyone else besides Maxwell and Epstein? Answer?
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I did speak with redacted at the beginning, just a
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: little bit, and it was probably more of the same.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: She probably just introduced herself to me and let me
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: know a little bit about the office. Question and you
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: said you became his assistant or executive secretary about a
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: week later. Is that correct answer? Correct? Question? And did
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: he offer you employment? Answer? I'm not sure if it
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: was him or miss Maxwell who may have called it.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Probably was Miss Maxwell. That seems to make more sense.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Brignac was redacted leaving the office Groft. She was not.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: She left about a year later after I started, Miss Tolan,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: And you stated that your initial offer included a fifty
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars salary. Is that correct? Answer? That's correct? Question?
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Were there any other benefits tied to the job, healthcare, housing,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: anything like that? Answer? I believe healthcare was also offered. Yes.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Question anything else? Answer? Not at the time? Question and
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: you mentioned this, I believe in your opening statement. But
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: when you were given a job initially, were you aware
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: that you'd be scheduling massages for mister Epstein? Answer? Not
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: at the initial first when I first spoke to him
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: about the interview, but after I started. Yes, that was
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: one of the things that was definitely spoken about, that
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: a massage would be part of his day, and it
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: was all treated very normally. Question And who told you that? Answer?
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I believe it was Miss Maxwell redacted, probably redacted. It
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: was just known in the office. Miss Brignac. And who
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: is going to train you and how to schedule these massages?
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Were you told at the beginning? Graf? Yes, I was
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: told at the beginning. I'm sure it was redacted and
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: all of them, probably everybody took a hand in helping me.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: You know, there was a lot to learn. It was,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: you know, very fast paced, two phones on my desk,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: it was overwhelming, Brignac. Did you find anything about the
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: massage scheduling to be odd when you first started, Groff?
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. It was just like any other appointment. It
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: was like going to the gym. It was very normal. Timmins,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: did you schedule, sorry, did you ever schedule any of
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the other assistants for massages? Graf? No, Timmins, So everybody
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: that you schedule for a massage seemed like they possibly
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: were a massage therapist. Graf, I believe that. Yes. Back
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: to Tolin and what did you know about mister Epstein
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: prior to meeting him? Answer nothing, nothing. I wasn't even
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: told who I was going to meet until I got there.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Question had you heard anything about him? Answer no question. Well,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: next question, did anyone raise concerns about mister Epstein to you? Answer?
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: No question? And what were your first impressions of mister Epstein.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Answer that he was powerful. You know a lot of
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: important people, professional business like super busy, stand offish. You know,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: we didn't have conversations. It was just about business and
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: what he wanted accomplish that day. Did you immediately understand
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: him to be wealthy? Answer yes? Question did you know
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: how he acquired his money? Answer? I didn't know. I
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: believed he was a money manager. Question how did you
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: come to learn that? Answer? I think it was just
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: talked about in the office with all the other administrative staff. Brinyako.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: When you accepted the job offer, What did you understand
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: about the position? Groff? I believed he was a money manager,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: managed other people's money, Brignac. Was that told to you
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: in the interview? Groth? I assume it was that he
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: was a money manager. Tolan and how many clients did
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein have during the period of your employment. Answer, well,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: it's hard for me to say. I definitely know his
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: biggest client was Les Wexner, and then he had some
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: other clients as well. Can you name them? Answer? Can
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I name them? I think it was Rothschild, you know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: it was some other big names he talked to mord Zuckerman.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he was a client, nothing's coming
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: to mind, but there were definitely important people calling. Question
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: did you ever communicate directly with the clients? Answer just
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: answering a phone call and passing the phone call through
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: to mister Epstein. Question and were they frequent visitors to
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answered the business people question Yes, answer I
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say frequent, every so often. Question and did you
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: ever conduct any work for any of those individuals? Answer?
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: No question. We're going to get in more specifics later,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: but for now, just some general questions. Can you briefly
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: describe the extent of your relationship with mister Epstein? Answer? Sure,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I would say the relationship is hardly a relationship. It
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: was very very business professional. I was not close to
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: him whatsoever, and I do believe that's exactly the way
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: he wanted it. Mister Emmer, we've had another member join.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Can she please announce herself for the record? Yasimin and sorry,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Arizona's third district. Back to Brignac. Question the headhunter could
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: tell you or tell us a bit more about how
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: you came into contact with this person? Answer? Of course,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: he called me because he saw my resume on monster
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: dot com. He had his own firm, and I know
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: his dame was Russell. I can't remember his last name,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: but it was his own firm. And he said he
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: called me in for the New York Knicks job, and
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I went to the city to meet him. Question and
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: what was the name of his firm? Answer? I don't recall.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. It was on Madison Avenue, I believe,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and you know, I come to mister Epstein. Someone might
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: have been miss Maxwell redacted. Somebody hired his firm, Russell's
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: firm to find the secretary. Question so were other employees
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: of Epstein procured from this firm? Answer? I'm not sure.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Question you likely worked in assisting to recruit other assistants
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and employees for Epstein? Did you use this firm? Answer?
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Actually I did not. That was not under my heading.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I never contacted any head hunter firms or was in
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: charge of recruiting. Do I recall interviewing some women when
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: he wanted I was actually thinking he wanted to replace me,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: but perhaps it was you know, he just wanted another
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: executive assistant. But that was one time. But I don't
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: know where exactly what that firm. That came from question
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and did you work for mister Epstein until he died
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen? Answer? No, not until he died. I
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: actually resigned prior to that question. Why answer it was
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: time for me to resign. I discussed it with, you know,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: my family, and I wanted to leave. Question and what
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: was the date of your resignation? Answer? I don't know
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: the exact date. I believe it was July of twenty nineteen. Brignac,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: What was the reason you left? Answer? What was the
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: reason I left? I didn't understand what was going on,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: and I didn't want to be with them, associated with
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: them anymore. Brignac? What took place that brought those feelings
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: of confusion? Graff? Well, he was arrested, and that was
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: that was scary to me. I didn't like that. I
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be associated with him. I didn't understand
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: what was going on, Miss Toland. Question did you have
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: those same feelings after his first arrest in two thousand
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: and six? Answer that was a different time. Actually, he
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: explained to me that he was being blackmailed and it
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: was all this big false and I believed him, and
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: it appeared to me everybody in the office felt the
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: same way. He was very good at manipulating, very good liar.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: We can all see that. And at the time I
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: actually felt sorry for him. I thought, Wow, this must
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: be really difficult to be a wealthy person and not
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: know who you can trust because everybody just wants your money.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Question did you ever doubt what he told you or
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: ever think the allegations were true? Answer? No, I did not.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off with the Leslie
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Groff transcript from her interview with Congress, question by Miss Toland,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and then just a few more general questions. How often
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: did you communicate with mister Epstein as his secretary? Answer? Yes, well,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: in the beginning, he was absolutely crazy. He did not
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: have email. He would communicate with me probably every fifteen minutes.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: He would call the office and you know me directives
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: on how we wanted to organize his day, and it
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: was just crazy, a crazy time. It was hard to
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: keep up. It was very challenging, but he would Yeah,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: he would call every fifteen minutes. Question and how often
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: were you with him in person? Answer? Not very often.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: He would come into the office. If he was in
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: New York City, he would come into the office for
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: half a day. He really wasn't in the office that much.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Question and did you ever have a romantic relationship with
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer no question. Did you ever have any
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: sexual relationship with mister Epstein? Answer no question. Did mister
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Epstein ever meet any of your family members? Answer? He
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: briefly met my husband when we were at a Mick
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Jagger concert, but it was literally one second he said
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: hello and that was it. Question anyone else? Answer no question.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: When was the last time you communicated with mister Epstein?
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Answer was probably some time in July of two thousand
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: nine nineteen. Question do you remember the nature of those communications?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Answer no question. And when was the last time that
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: you saw him in person? Answer? I don't recall exactly.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: It was maybe in June of twenty nineteen, but I
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: don't recall. Question and then were you ever abused or
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein. Answer no, Miss Brignac asking the question, now,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: what was his reaction when you resigned Groff? I didn't
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: speak to him. I told his attorney, Darren Endyke, that
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: I was resigning. Miss Tolan asked him the question, how
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: would you characterize your relationship with Miss Maxwell Groff? Purely professional?
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Mister Higgins jumps in, mister chairman, may I I'm going
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: to ask you a question. I'm going to have you
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: have to leave in a few minutes. You're doing a
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: very composed job. Thank you for being here, Groff, Thank
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: you Higgins. Regarding the massage therapist, you've explained your interactions
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: regarding calling them and communicating and arranging. So I have
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: just a couple of questions there, Groff. Of course, Higgins.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Did the telephone system at the office have caller ID? Grof?
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. I don't think so, Higgins, Okay, Grof,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It was so long ago, was there
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: caller ID? Higgins? Did you have any way of knowing
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: when you call these ladies that you believed to be
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: a massage therapists? Did you have any way of knowing
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: that you were calling a massage company or a business
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: or was it always a personal phone? Can you shed
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: some light on that, Graf? I believe it was cell phones. Higgins,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: it was cell phones, Graf. Uh huh, Higgins. So did
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: the massage therapists ever introduce themselves? Did they ever come
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: give a massage to mister Epstein at the office Grof? Never? No, Higgins, Okay,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: just asking, I don't know, Graf, Yeah, Higgins. Did you
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: ever meet any of them in person? Graf? I did not, Higgins.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: And did you ever have a conversation with them about
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: their equipment, like how they were transporting their equipment or
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: did you presume that it was a business Graf. I
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: knew that they were to meet at his home, and
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I believe that he was he was equipped with what
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: he needed. Higgins, I see. And was the massage therapy
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: session timed? Did they say I'm going to do this
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: from two to three because I have another appointment at
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: four or what? Graff? His day was very scheduled Higgins, No,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: for the massage therapist. Graff. Yeah, So they would you know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: come for thirty minutes or whatever, you know the time
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: it was usually short Higgins. So that time schedule that
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: you scheduled, like the window that they were going to
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: be with mister Epstein or whomever. Was there a window
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: that you scheduled, Graf? Was it a window I scheduled?
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I ever gave an exact, you know, time,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: but I knew that if I was scheduling something else
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: for him, say someone was coming for a two o'clock massage,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: and then I knew his next appointment was two thirty.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Higgins? Okay? And how were these
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: massage therapists paid Groff? I believe that he paid them.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: And there were some times when I would be asked
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: to please ask our accounting department to sense two hundred
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: dollars for in an envelope via messenger or picked up
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: from his driver to be delivered to a massuse mister Higgins.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: And where would that be delivered to an address provided
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: to you Groff? Correct? Higgins? Did you keep documentation of
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the addresses? Groff? I did not, Higgins okay? And where
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: would the cash come from? Groff redacted in our accounting
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: department had a petty cash box? Higgins okay. Final question
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: about the massage therapists. Did it ever strike you as
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: odd man that when you were calling a massage therapist
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: it was not a massage therapy business, Groff. No, I
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: considered it like an independent contractor type of situation. Higgins. Okay,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: that's all my questions. Thank you now, mister Biggs. Can
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I ask a question too, thank you. We've just talked
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: about a number. I want to know. Was there a
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: number of different massage therapists or was it one or
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: two or the same one or how was that? Miss Groff?
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: It changed throughout, you know, time, Sometimes it would be
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the same one and then other times was always directed
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: by mister Epstein. Mister Biggs, that's what I wanted to
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: ask you. Where did you get the name and number
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: he provided those to you? Graf? That is correct, yes, Biggs.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: And was this was this a daily occurrence? Graf? It
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: could be. I'm sure there were days that there were
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: no massage Biggs. Okay, thank you, thank you very much.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Mister Emmer, just to follow up, were the days that
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: he would receive multiple massages? Graf? I don't believe. So.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I've heard that, but I don't believe. I don't recall
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: booking multiple massages. I can say if if one person
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: was not available. He might provide me a different name
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: and a phone number, but to me, it was one
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Tolan and you scheduled. Did you schedule all of mister
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Epstein's massage appointments or were other individuals involved in this? Grof?
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I think other individuals were probably helping schedule as well,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: mister Tolan. Do you know who Miss Groff? It could
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: have been Sarah Kellen at the time, maybe redacted redacted,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the administrative staff, Miss Brynac. So what was your role
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: in scheduling massages? Miss Groff? I was his main secretary.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: But if I wasn't, if I was sick, or if
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I was not there, you know, in the office for
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: some reason vacation Toland? Were you responsible for scheduling massages
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: at specific residence of his or anywhere? Answer? It was
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: mostly his home in New York City, that's you know
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: where I would schedule. And did you ever schedule for
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: his massages for his pom Beach residents? Answer it's possible,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: question any of the other residences. Answer it's possible question.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: And you've already touched on this a little bit, But
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: how would you know who to schedule? Answer mister Epstein
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: would direct me on who to call Brignac. Ask him
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: a question, now how answer? Oh, he would call me
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: and then he'd give me his twenty pages worth of
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: notes to say, schedule for the day, and that would
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: just be one of the things to schedule. Question can
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: you describe what it would say? Answer? Well, he would
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: call me and rattle off everything that he wanted to
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: happen that day in the morning, nine am sharp, and
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: it would just be one of the you know, schedule
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: a meeting with you know, Leon Black, schedule a meeting
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: with mort Zuckerman. Here's a list of thirty people that
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I want you to call today. Make me a massage
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: appointment with so and so, and then onward with you know,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: let's see if we can have lunch with so and
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: so type of thing. Question Why would he give you
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the contact information for the individual he wanted for a massage?
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Answer yes, question to include what information? Answer name and
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: phone number? Question and did you ever ask how he
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: got this information? Answer no, Tolan. And then you would
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: directly reach out to these women. Is that correct answer
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: by Groth? Correct yes, question or sometimes they would reach
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: out to you. I think you mentioned earlier. Answer that's correct. Question,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: how frequently would they reach out to you? Answer? How frequently?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: If he was she gets cut off by backner. Can
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: you please keep your voice up, Groff, keep my voice up.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: I would say it happened, you know, if he was
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: in town and a messus knew, they might call you know,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: once a week, twice a week to see if you
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: would see them. Timmins and quick question. So pre jail,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: it seemed like Glenn Maxwell did a lot of the
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: finding of the massage therapists and a lot of the coordination.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: After that, it was more structured and there were different
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: people that were finding of age women all over the planet,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Eastern Europe and whatnot. You have a number of emails
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: where you're communicating with people to introduce very young but
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: of age girls to mister Epstein. Did you think that
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: was strange? Including photos of beautiful women saying these are
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: two people, I think you'd like them, and then you'd
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: facilitate the introduction one. Did that occur often? Groff? It
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: did occur. Mister Epstein always wanted to widen his his
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: rolodecks of people. He always wanted to meet people. And
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: it was not just when it came to women. When
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: it came to men as well, and the scientists and
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: the professors. He oftentimes said, if you know someone that
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: you think I would enjoy meeting, and you think are smart,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: please bring them along. It was just kind of what
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: he did, Timmins. So it's not unusual for someone to
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: email you and say, this is a twenty one year
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: old from Ukraine and she's very beautiful. Here are some photos.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: We think that Jeffrey would like her, and then she
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: would send you the email to you and you would
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: then take that email to mister Epstein and say this
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: person sent this, and you would say, do you want
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: to meet this person? That's normal, Miss Groff, That's correct.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: He was involved with a lot of modeling agencies and
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: he was just a connector. Timmins, Okay. In retrospect the
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: other seven or eight people that he referred to as assistants,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: you're aware that they're victims of sex trafficking and human trafficking,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Miss Groff, I'm aware that they're saying they're victims now, Timmins, Okay.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I mean they've been deemed victims by multiple federal courts mediations.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: They've received hundreds of millions of dollars of settlements would come.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Are you asking her awareness now, Sir Timmins, Yeah, Are
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: you aware currently that that's the case? Graf? I am Timmins, Okay,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: in retrospect, do you think that all these other kinds
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: of things go together. I mean, he's got girls come
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: in from Eastern Europe and he's developing a system of
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: control over eight people that work for him, and you're
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: the right hand of that control. Would come just objection
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: to the form you can answer, Timmins. Did you control
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: the credit cards of the ed assistance? Grafi did not? Timmins.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Did you know the pin for their apartments? Did you
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: control their apartments? Grafi did not. Mister Timmins. Would you
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: what if they said differently? Graf? I don't think they
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: would Timmins, okay, Miss Brynac, Miss Gross, you answered a
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: question about massages with the fact that he was well
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: connected to modeling agencies. Did you ever did he ever
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: use a model as a massus? Ms? Graf? I don't know, Toland.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: And can you estimate how many different messuses Epstein used?
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Groff I don't know, Mister Biggs. Would you say it
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: was more than a dozen different messuses? Groff I would
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: say it was more than a dozen, mister Biggs, more
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: than twenty Groff twenty thirty over a time period. Mister Biggs,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: what time period are you thinking, Miss Groff? Two thousand
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: and one to two thousand and seven, mister Biggs, So
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: during that six year period, you think maybe somewhere between
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: twenty and thirty or is it more likely than thirty?
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Miss Groff? It sounds right, but I don't really know Brignac.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Question and what informed your opinion that he was well
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: connected to modeling agencies? Answer? Well's biggest client was Les Wexner,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: and I knew that he was friendly with other business
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: owners Faith Kates of next modeling. Question, but he was
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: well connected to lots of different influential people. Why do
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: you per se he was well connected to modeling agencies
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: amongst very few others. What about the modeling agencies stands
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: out to you? Answer? When I first got hired, there
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: was a lot of talk about modeling and modeling agencies
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: and Les Wexner and that sort of thing. It was
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: just known around the office. Question did you hear office
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: gossip about how he would interact with these models? Answer? No,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: left off. All the information that goes with this episode
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: with the Leslie Groff transcript from her interview with Congress
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: MS Tolan. The committees reviewed multiple documents related to Jeffrey Epstein,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: including his phone directories. I will now introduce as Majority
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Exhibit one. These are excerpts the mister Epstein phone directories
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: that the committee received from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: These excerpts are labeled as massage lists with names or
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: redacted names of individuals, cell phone numbers, and a description
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: next to the name. Mister Bockner. Before you ask a question,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: could I just have a quick moment? Toland? Sure, take
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: a moment, Backner, Thank you Tolan. MS Groff. Have you
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: seen these lists before? Answer? This looks like a little
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: black book that was a directory that was kept, you know,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: in the office and at is Holmes. Question where all
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: were they kept at residences? Answer? I believe all residences? Yes,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: question And you said in offices, in mister Epstein's office
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: or in your office? Answer one was on my desk
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: when I started, and I believe there were others other
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: administrators who had them on their desk as well. Question
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: and mims Groff, did you create these lists? Answer no?
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Question do you know who did? Answer? I believe it
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: was Miss Maxwell. Question do you know how she created
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: the list? Answer? I do not. I think over time.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Question and is this to the best of your recollection?
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Is this what the lists look like when you began
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: working for mister Epstein? Answer yes. Question did you add two, change,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: or remove any names from any of these lists? Answer?
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I added to the list. I don't think
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: we ever took things out, but we added Brignac. What
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: would warrant adding someone to this black book? Gruff? Anyone
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: he met. If I was directed to put a phone number,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: a name in and a phone number in, I would
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: put them in. I would actually put it into the
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: computer system, not into the black book. I think the
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: black book was printed from the directory that was on
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: the computer system at the time. Miss Tolan. Question, so
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: who else had authority to add her change names on
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: the directory? Answer? I think that would be anyone in
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: the office. Question and you mentioned already, but did you
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: use the list to schedule massage appointments for mister Epstein? Answer,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: he directed me on who to schedule so and it
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: usually it was a name and a phone number. Maybe
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: if it was somebody that he was hiring for a while.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: After a while, he didn't have to give me the
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: phone number because the phone number was in the directory. Question,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: so we would if he provided you a name, you
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: would use the directory for the number. Answer? Correct question.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: And previously you mentioned that anyone else in the office
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: would have the ability to change the access to these lists.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer? Correct? Question? Who are you referring
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: to here? Answer? It would be miss Maxwell redacted. We
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: had a receptionists at the time, you know, a couple
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: of different ones. Redacted who was Darren Endike's assistant, could
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: add and subtract. Anybody who had access to the computer
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: system should be able to add and subtract. Tolin and
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein, you said, would tell you names and numbers
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: of who to call. Were there ever times when you
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: would if you would just say you wanted a massage,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: would you ever choose one to schedule? Answer? No, question
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: and on the first page of the list, which is
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: House Oversight Bates four hundred, there's a list of massage
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: names specific to New York. Answer uh huh. Question, And
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: on the back of the page there's a list of
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: names also specific to New York. These are labeled A
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and B. Do you know why there's an A and
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: a B list for New York? Answer? I do not. Question.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I know it's redacted, but do you know from your
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: role if there's any difference in these two lists? Answer
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I do not question. There is also a list of
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: massage names specific to Florida. Do you know who is
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: on that list? Do you know who created that list? Answer?
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I do not. It was before I got there, Miss Brignac.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: But you did add to the list, correct Graff. Yeah,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: I could have added to the list, but I don't know. Yes,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I added to the list at times. The whole book
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: was before I got there, it had already started, Miss Brignac.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Can you recall who you may have added, Miss Groff?
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Miss Tolan. And did you schedule from
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Florida list specifically at any point? Answer It's possible that
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I schedule for Florida, but I don't recall anything offhand?
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Nothing stands out. Same questions here there is also a
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: list massage New Mexico. Do you know who created that list? Answer?
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I don't. I would think it would be miss Maxwell.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Question and did you also use this list to schedule
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: massages for mister Epstein in New Mexico? Answer it's possible.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: He didn't go there very often, but it's possible. Question
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: was there a list of messuses specific to Paris? Friends?
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: We know we had an apartment, mister Epstein had an apartment,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: There was there a list? Answer? I don't know. Is
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: there a list? Question? There was not in anything we received,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: So just if you have knowledge of it? Answer, oh,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I don't recall a list. Question. And then within this
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: document there is also a list specific to the UK.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Do you know why mister Epstein would have had a
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: list of massage names specific to the UK? Answer? I
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: do not. Question did he ever maintain a residence there?
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Answer in the UK? Question yes, answer not that I'm
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: aware of. Question did he frequently travel there? Answer no?
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Question by Brignac. So then what would the UK list
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: be used for? Graff? I don't know. I guess if
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: you went to the UK Brignac. Did you use it
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: to schedule other people? Graf Oh, no, no, Tolin And
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: then same questions. There also appears to be a list
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: specific to California. Did you use this list to schedule
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: massages for mister Epstein in California? Answer? I don't recall.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Question Do you know why he had a list specific
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: to California? Answer? I do not. Question did he ever
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: maintain a residence in California? Answer not that I'm aware of. Question?
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: And did he travel there often? Answer? Not often? Question
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: and then there does not appear to be one in
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: this directory? But do you know of there being a
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: list specific to the Virgin Islands? Answer I'm not aware
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: of a list specific to the Virgin Islands? Question and
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: next to you can see it. Next to all of
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the list, there are parentheticals, a lot of them read
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: redacted names, friends, redacted names, roommate which we understand to
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: be roommate redacted pale, And even on page five, one
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: of the parentheticals reads GM, who we understand to be
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: a miss Maxwell really likes. What was the purpose of
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: these descriptions? Answer? I don't know. I don't even recall descriptors.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I really did not use the directory. I used what
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: was on the computer system. It was much faster. Brignac. Question,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: but miss Groff, who had access to this book? Answer?
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Uh huh. Question did you not find it odd that
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: some of them is jeuses were friends of other messuses
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: and not coworkers? Answer? I did not. I guess I
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: did not. I didn't even think about it. Question in
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: twenty years, you never asked why are we booking Messus's
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: friends to come give massages as well? Backner, I don't, respectfully,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think you laid the foundation that she saw
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: friends there. I think she said she used something in
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: the other computer system, mister Witcomb, or that massages were
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: happening for twenty years sam objection, Miss Brignac, thank you.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: I'd still like for you to answer the question Groff
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: about friends. I don't recall seeing these what did you
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: call them? Question descriptors? Answer descriptors? Yeah, I didn't. I
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: don't recall seeing the descriptives or people talking about descriptives.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: I would just be given the directive. Questions, So these
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: were not in the online database version? Answer not that
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: I recall. Question and so these were for mister Epstein's
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: awareness rather than you answer, I don't know if they
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: were for his awareness or Miss Maxwell's awareness. I don't
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: know whose awareness they were for question and you mentioned
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: there is the online version of the directories. What database
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: was that information stored on? Do you know? Answer? I
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: don't have independent knowledge or recollection of this, but I
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: did read Sarah's testimony gets cut off by backner. Do
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: you want her recollection or do you want to know
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: what she read? Tolin her recollection? If you know? Graff, Oh,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. Question and do you know if any
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: of that information was ever deleted during the first investigation
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: into mister Epstein. Answer, I don't know. Question and do
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: you know if it was deleted at any point? Answer?
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I do not. Question was this information ever switched to
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: a different database? Answer? We did switch over to mac computers.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Question Miss Groff, I'm going to read you a list
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: of names. For each name, please answer yes or no
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: to the following question, and I will have follow up
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: questions for each person that you answer yes to. The
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: question is have you ever scheduled or arranged a massage
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: at any of Jeffrey Epstein's properties for any of the
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: following individuals? Frederick Forcai Answer no, Andrew mount Batton Windsor
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: answer no. Harvey Weinstein answer no, Terry Larson answer no,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Tommy Mottola answer no. Jess Staley answer no. George Mitchell
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: answer no, Henry Jureki answer no, Eduardo TiO Dorani answer no,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Leon Black answer no. Glenn Dubin answer no. Lappo Elkin answer,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I don't even know who that is. No question Tom Pritzker, no,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: David Mitchell no. Did you ever schedule massages of any
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: kind for any of these individuals? Answer no. Question do
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: you recall scheduling meetings of any kind for any of
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: these individuals? Answer? Meetings with mister Epstein? Yes. Question other
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: than mister Epstein, did you ever schedule messages for any
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: of the massages? Excuse me for any other individual? Answer?
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: I scheduled a massage appointment for a Kathy Rumler at
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: a spa, and I know he gave her. That's it.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: That's all I can recall. Question what did you understand
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein's relationship to be with Kathy Rumler? Answer? Professional
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: business question did you think it was weird that he
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: directed you to schedule a massage for miss Rumler? Answer?
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I did not. Question by miss Tolin. And when you
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: were scheduling massage, what information did you gather from the
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: messuses to schedule them? Answer just if they could make it,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: make the appointment or not. Question did you ever ask
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: for their age? Answer no question. Did you ever ask
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: if they needed travel or car service? Answer no. Question.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Were all of the messuses that you schedule of females?
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Answer no. I know of one man that he would
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: schedule a massage with question how frequently? Answer not that frequently, Brignac.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Did anyone else besides Epstein give you contact information for massuses? Groth?
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: I think it was just him. Tolin? And did you
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: ever see any of the massuses in person? Answer no question.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Did you or anyone ever express concerns to you about
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: their appearance or their age? Answer no question. Were all
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: of the messuses local to the area to New York? Question?
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Answer uh huh, I believe so. Question. What did you
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: know about their background where they came from? Answer nothing.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Question it never came up in conversation, whether with them
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: or another individual? Answer never. Question. Were you aware that
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: many of them were coming from local high schools at
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: the time? Answer no question. Were there qualifications as messuses? Ever? Reviewed.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Answer no question by anyone. Answer I don't know. Question
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: and where did the actual massages take place in the
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: New York residence? Answer at his home, I don't know.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Question where specifically what room? Answer the massage room. Question
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: can you describe that a little more? Answer I've never
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: seen it. I don't know. I don't know anything about it.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Question did you maintain an office space within his New
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: York residence at any point? Answer it was only after
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: about twenty thirteen that I ever stepped foot into the house.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Prior to that, I had offices elsewhere. Mister Emmer, just
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: a quick follow up, Did you have any role in
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: preparing the massage room to be used? Answer no question.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Did you have any role in greeting messuses when they
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: visited the residence? Answer no question. Were you ever present
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: in the room when mister Epstein was receiving a massage?
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Answer no question. I understand that Congressman Biggs has some question.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna wrap up right here, and in
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: the next episode we're gonna pick up with Congressman Biggs
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and his questions. All the information that goes with this
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.